Mini Normal 2160 | FIA Group B | Endgame

[UnaBombaH]

I mean, I'm not stupid or blind.
We go Zombie-RP today then, and we all know what should happen tomorrow

if

and

when

.

he claims to have realised SS was a cop.
he was engaging with SS who was imploring him to vote zombie and leave nep for later.

Like, a simple excerpt from those walls of BS you threw at me, what is this even supposed to mean?
This is me literally telling S_S "I got it, you basically claim to have a guilty"..?
"We kill Zombie-RP today, and if/when Zombie flips green or Nep manages to pull up some other BS for D3, we should lynch S_S -> Nep."
I did not say that I immediately

knew

S_S was a town!Cop, but what other explanations were there?
He didn't budge

at all

when I screamed and shouted that Nep was lying.
Meaning that he had to have a

hard guilty

. (or theoretically was a scumster lying, which is why I inserted that if/when)

[the worst]

And I'm also quite certain that Duckys spam and "courting" for liliths favor has been his plan all along.

that spam is like the hardest I've ever tryharded in the entire history of mafia and is like transparently beyond anything I've even pretended to be capable of as scum lol. again you have no rebuttal for it, this only makes sense if you enter with the assumption I'm scum

This is that game where scum!Ducky fooled you lilith, just hold on to that in all of your future games and I bet you get killed by scum!Ducky N1 a lot more.

and you think I'm AtEing? :p

Ducky says I'm scum, because my dayplay has been garbage.

on the contrary your dayplay has been quite good considering your wincon. it's just not towny.

What has his dayplay been then, in retrospect?
1 scum lynched, and it was based on S_S guiltying the slot.

aka. the entire town
are you trying to establish that I'm fallible? my god yes
you are not going to establish that I'm scum because I'm not scum here
who was there on the frontlines actually calling to sort these people and trying to engage with these slots before we miselim'd them? this duck

who was there pretending to have a tw/IV solve while literally ignoring wagons forming on his townreads (or in some cases literally lolhammering wagons on people who were outside of his solve)?

Other than that, without even checking, I'd argue that Ducky has been on every single mislynch (and probably I have been too), he has waffled on his reads all the way until LyLo, he voted "recklessly" (for uninformed town, mind you) in LyLo, he has been softing suspicions towards his buddy in IV all throughout the game without actually pushing for their lynch.

I mean I also had trajectory to voting you.....lol
I'm almost certain I noticed y'day that if mwnn was green you were necessarily scum

I've just spent like a few actual hours pouring through the thread to show everyone else what I saw that lead me to that decision and to explain what I can see in hindsight

Whatever he has said about my dayplay, could be said about his play in this game too.

almost the contrary: I've only been motivated by survival as long as I've been absolutely convinced that my elimination will lose town the game. It's been day four and day five that I've felt strongly compelled to survive. if you think I'm scum you seriously cannot tell me that I was setting myself up for deepwolf D1-3. :/ This is EOD as far as I'm concerned.

and like my issue with you is that you have no reads from d3 onwards. you have pushed nothing but singalled that you are trying to solve the game. the issue people have with me is that I have too many damn reads and can't commit to them and I keep resetting and making shitty exhausted reads on players who I should probably actually trying to be solving. yeah I've been on the miselims because I thought they were good ideas at the time. I talked through every one at a fair bit of length (excepting like, Nor who by dayplay wasn't really anyone's first preference if I'm brutally honest he was just a workable compromise who nobody really townread)

our dayplays are nearly polar opposite?

I have a feeling that too much weight is put on the fact that A) he has claimed VT instead of a PR (which doesn't make him town, it just means that he could be the scum!RB) B) he is more charismatic and likeable than I am.

nobody has even mentioned my vt status lmfao
I'm gonna ignore the second part because I think we live in a world where people are intelligent enough to see that I am explicitly not using my charisma for evil in this game.

you are very cute though and if you actually believed this I'd be sad.

[the worst]

Then the fact that Ducky used EVERYTHING he could possibly find in my ISO.

ye you've been scum for the entire game

For example the end of D2.
He made it look like I ddn't want to vote for Zombie, when in fact there were two VERY CLEAR reasons for why I wasn't on the wagon, and both can be found in that same ISO.
1) I unvoted Nep very begrudgingly because I felt like I got shafted by that mod-mistake. I was forced to out my role D2 because I thought it was going to be a 1for1 trade with scum.
2) I drove to the other half of Finland and I mentioned that as well. I simply wasn't around for much of D2 after that unvote, I'm not even sure if I prod-dodged much because the internet was so bad on the road.

That's fine, let's chalk that one up to bad timing. You weren't around to interact with a guilty on your scumbuddy so we have to read those associatives based on the fact you literally could not interact with him on d1. I'm fine with that.

How about the rest of your iso?

[lilith2013]

sorry una that’s, like, verifiably false. you returned from vla before this vc:

Why are we Capitalizing Random Words

vote count

day 2, vc 3

plusJOYED

(4, E-2) - Something_Smart, lilith2013, innocentvillager, TheFourEyedDude

Nepenthes

(1) - Not_Mafia

the worst

(1) - plusJOYED

Froppy

(1) - the worst

innocentvillager

(0)

TheFourEyedDude

(0)

Billy Pilgrim

(0)

UnaBombaH

(0)

Something_Smart

(0)

Not_Mafia

(0)

lilith2013

(0)

Not voting

(4) - Froppy, Nepenthes, Billy Pilgrim, UnaBombaH

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to execute.

The day will end in (expired on 2020-09-20 08:24:00).

Then proceeded to say plus should be the elimination but not vote them:

Like I said I'm still confused as to why VT zombie would do something like that. But why else would he do something like that at the start of day 2 without any pressure on him? He probably expected to die n2 to save a real town PR kill

I mean, I

guess

this could be the thing?
And I have this stupid tendency to think that scum never make mistakes like these, so I'm hesitantly leaning at least a little towards beliving you, but..
At the same time. I sort of doesn't matter what your slot/you have claimed or unclaimed.
S_S still seems so adamant about your slot, that I'm going to say you should be todays lynch anyway.

Then proceeded to shade SS who you say you knew had a guilty

My stance on policy executions is kinda confused. I'm against them in principle, because they obviate the need to actually form reads, but I will often support them in practice if they get traction because my D1 philosophy is to execute someone I don't townread, and I probably won't be townreading someone if they are policy-worthy.

So why didn't you join the sirius wagon? You weren't tring him, and it had traction at one point.

This is a smart pickup.
I still think D1 would've been way better for us, had we actually just lynched that slot.
It still hasn't done anything, and I have a feeling that the rest of the replacements would've gone a different route as well.

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

idk how the worst plays maf so I'd be inclined to take SS's word for it but it still feels pockety to me

Well, if you're town, then yeah my point is it's pocketing/whiteknighting.

I outright dislike this.
Doesn't come across as confident as I had hoped S_S would be.

[Billy Pilgrim]

please quote where you made these arguments

Ok went back through my iso. It was D3. And 3887 (this is where inpoint out that it makes the target ascetic), 3890, 3909 (i go through the scum utility of the role), 3922, Una convinces me based on standard doc interaction that its not negative utility.

Sorry, I think I got my days mixed up. That may have been D3.

[UnaBombaH]

why are you writing off SS as lolbus scum?

I feel like everyone should, and talking about it in an extensive matter makes no difference now.
I'd say all we need is a flip from that slot to feel better.

And like this is the best example that you simply skipped because it involves

YOU

talking about it.
I didn't "write off" S_S as a lol!bussing_scum, but instead felt like it was

OBVIOUS

he was hinting at a hard guilty.
But hey, that's another slot that scum!Una left alive becaus....NIGHT ACTIONS DON'T MATTER AND THEY ARE ALL WIFOM.

[the worst]

I mean, I'm not stupid or blind.
We go Zombie-RP today then, and we all know what should happen tomorrow

if

and

when

.

he claims to have realised SS was a cop.
he was engaging with SS who was imploring him to vote zombie and leave nep for later.

Like, a simple excerpt from those walls of BS you threw at me, what is this even supposed to mean?
This is me literally telling S_S "I got it, you basically claim to have a guilty"..?
"We kill Zombie-RP today, and if/when Zombie flips green or Nep manages to pull up some other BS for D3, we should lynch S_S -> Nep."
I did not say that I immediately

knew

S_S was a town!Cop, but what other explanations were there?
He didn't budge

at all

when I screamed and shouted that Nep was lying.
Meaning that he had to have a

hard guilty

. (or theoretically was a scumster lying, which is why I inserted that if/when)

you aren't acknowledging why this is concerning - the fact that after the mod error is unveiled you UNVOTED NEP and talked to SS a fair bit without either voting Zombie, or voting any of your alleged scumreads.

[UnaBombaH]

and you think I'm AtEing? :p

I'm starting to get frustrated because you lost a partner D2 and still managed to drag IV this far AND now you are going to win as well.
Bull. Shit.

[Billy Pilgrim]

the game isn't over
I'm finally right
hoooooly fuck

Well, you are sort of clearly scum so the game shouldn't be over yet anyway. And I also see that you have racked some more posts up so maybe I should take some time to post as well, although I feel like it should be better for town to have the other three players sort it out.
If I'm being "fair" and take myself out of the equation for a second - one of us is going to be talking shit anyway, and therefore already might be "WIFOMing stuff" in preparation for tomorrow.
So if Billy/lilith/IV are able to talk things through amongst themselves, I feel like we have a better shot at getting not only todays lynch in order, but also the last one we need for tomorrow.

Ok this is scummy. You don't wanna participate in the solve?

[the worst]

my wallpost quality is gonna drop sorry, I'm mobileposting until I eventually fall asleep.

[UnaBombaH]

lilith, you are falling into the conf.bias pit that Ducky dug.
Read those quoted posts again.
Especially the last one.

idk how the worst plays maf so I'd be inclined to take SS's word for it but it still feels pockety to me

Well, if you're town, then yeah my point is it's pocketing/whiteknighting.

I outright dislike this.
Doesn't come across as confident as I had hoped S_S would be.

BECAUSE IF HE ACTUALLY HAS A HARD GUILTY, HE SHOULDN'T BE SAYING "IF YOU'RE TOWN"

?????

[lilith2013]

and the first one?

[lilith2013]

I don’t really care why SS said that, although I’d believe he was trying to make it seem like it wasn’t a guilty so he wouldn’t be a target. There’s zero evidence that that made you reconsider anything though

[UnaBombaH]

Like I said I'm still confused as to why VT zombie would do something like that. But why else would he do something like that at the start of day 2 without any pressure on him? He probably expected to die n2 to save a real town PR kill

I mean, I

guess

this could be the thing?
And I have this stupid tendency to think that scum never make mistakes like these, so I'm hesitantly leaning at least a little towards beliving you, but..
At the same time. I sort of doesn't matter what your slot/you have claimed or unclaimed.
S_S still seems so adamant about your slot, that I'm going to say you should be todays lynch anyway.

This one? How do you not understand what I'm feeling/saying here?
Just because I didn't put down a vote before I had caught up and gathered my thoughts, I'm now scum in retrospect?
I try to play the game with the mindset that scum are intelligent and cunning, and town is (more often than not), a bit dumbdumb.
It's a little pessimistic PoV, but has helped me a lot over the years.
Scum often "push for the optimal play" while town fall flat on the objective while talking about it.

My stance on policy executions is kinda confused. I'm against them in principle, because they obviate the need to actually form reads, but I will often support them in practice if they get traction because my D1 philosophy is to execute someone I don't townread, and I probably won't be townreading someone if they are policy-worthy.

So why didn't you join the sirius wagon? You weren't tring him, and it had traction at one point.

This is a smart pickup.
I still think D1 would've been way better for us, had we actually just lynched that slot.
It still hasn't done anything, and I have a feeling that the rest of the replacements would've gone a different route as well.

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

Or this one?
Notice how this post isn't supposed to be about me shading S_S - it's about me approving of Billys thoughts.
It was posts like these that gradually put him in my townpool.
I liked the fact that he went ahead and confronted/questioned S_S in a situation where I don't think scumsters would.

[the worst]

I'm not convinced that choice of words comes from SS who doesn't have a guilty just like. as turn of phrase? but irrespective: if he has further shots why would he double down on the "I'm not entertaining a world where you aren't scum die scum pew pew" thing.....like it's in his best interest to play it as coy as possible while still firmly insisting his elim goes through.

[UnaBombaH]

The actual timeline of D2 isn't up to question.
I was barely around, when I got back I was tired for driving overnight and sleeping poorly on the road.
And then there was a replacement, and apparently they withdrew the claim Zombie had faked?
I was reading that shit, and then S_S had gone ahead and made the posts that you have just so accurately quoted.
It was night time in Finland then, and that post we just revisited was the last one I made before going to bed.
During that same night, N_M was summoned with a chaos-ritual and he hammered the slot away.

It's not like I was ever going to vote anyone else either, but instead of "making sure I am on the bus" I simply didn't feel a need to hesitate with my judgement.
You do not know my scumgame very well (clearly), but I'm not the kind to leave myself on the fence when it was clear from the get go who was going to be the lynch for that day.

[the worst]

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

isn't.....this like..... directly shading ss?
I'm wondering if I'm overtired or if una is actually flailing so hard he's stopped making sense

[lilith2013]

@una can you explain why you voted mwnn yesterday?

the response “it takes 4 to wagon” doesn’t count as a reason for voting

[lilith2013]

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

isn't.....this like..... directly shading ss?
I'm wondering if I'm overtired or if una is actually flailing so hard he's stopped making sense

no this is exactly what I mean. That post doesn’t seem to be about billy at all

[UnaBombaH]

That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.

isn't.....this like..... directly shading ss?
I'm wondering if I'm overtired or if una is actually flailing so hard he's stopped making sense

No..?
I'm talking directly at Billy there.
What he had though of as a potential scumtell "doesn't outright make S_S scum", but his thought process was correct IMO, and I wanted to acknowledge that.
My own thought process about D1 was mostly about "why can't we just get rid of the useless slot D1", and this put the idea in my head that scum wanted to rather cause chaos, and save Sirius for a later mislynch if at all possible.

no this is exactly what I mean. That post doesn’t seem to be about billy at all

Conf.bias is a hell of a drug.
What more can I say - it was almost exclusively directed at Billy, and it was me saying that I thought his thought process was good, even if it did not outright spell S_S as scum.

[the worst]

that's a very wild way of saying "I disagree but I like your thought process",

[UnaBombaH]

Well, I did not say that "I disagree".
I did not say that "S_S is scum for that" either.
You are literally nitpicking my posts as a duo now, and you are focusing on something that is not there - a scum-agenda..

[Billy Pilgrim]

The only other option might be just lynching MWNN - I really dislike their "willingness to be lynched" here.
That would also reveal the "IC" within N_M if that's actually a thing, meaning that I'd have a simple target for my last shot and you'd probably find ME dead tomorrow..but at least you'd have an IC!
...who doesn't...do anything... -_-

Ducky amd IV, is this what you're referring to with respect to his hammer while still scumreading you? Because I at least saw this benefit from flipping MWNN.

[lilith2013]

my major sticking point here is the interactions on D3 (D2? idr what day it is anymore) that I mentioned in my self-quote, that of all the posts una has made, what I remember most is this: una approached duck with a mindset of “duck is scum and here’s how that makes sense in the context of the game” and like trying to cram in a bunch of reasons that could really have been applied to anyone and weren’t specific to duck whatsoever; instead of approaching the game holistically, like “here’s what happened, how do I fit the pieces together to see who is scummiest”

I have yet to receive a response to this btw, unless “you’re just confbiased” is a response

[lilith2013]

oh wait I remember, you said “gut”

ok