Mini Normal 2181 | College Basketball Players | Game Over

[Prism]

Don't throw away your work this game to spite the mod, there's other avenues postgame. We need you here.

[Prism]

All you had to do is do it privately, man, and PM NPOM if you wanted that you were doing so. There's no point in bolding it to us.

Please just refocus on the game and hope he gives it a pass.

[Prism]

I meant the PM to Implo.

Do you have a read on petapan?

[Prism]

My instinct is that we should just gladiate it out and vote in me/bork today. Going to be crushing morale wise if we eliminate a town but this is unsalvageable from my perspective.

I'm not really feeling motivated right now, and predict lower energy days to come, which doesn't help.

[Prism]

I might try and read more skitter/ffery if I can work myself into a productive frenzy but I don't see this getting resolved without a flip. Might as well do it sooner.

[Prism]

that kind of thing is how towns lose games like this

I think you're underselling how toxic this is, at least from my perspective, for one day let alone 2 or 3. I'd rather just be wrong and get it sorted or be right and do us all a public service.

I'm one vote though, not seven, and I don't really mind just disappearing for 3 days to a week until I get my energy back either.

[Prism]

It's not personal, but we're not talking anymore about the topic, reading it is misery as-is let alone with another game day or two, and it's not getting resolved without a vote. Colossal failure for both of us as town. Wipe hands, reflect, move on.

Demotivation/low energy I'm speaking about is very natural for me, it's not really because of anything you've done even though I have had to hold my tongue.

[Prism]

I respect you as a player. You're perfectly capable and even though some sections have me in complete disbelief and wanting to type all of Infinite Jest that's the nature of the game.

The dynamic is absolutely toxic but you are not.

[Prism]

I really don't know how to feel about that speech in that you definitely know you're presenting 0 new perspective to me there. It makes it feel very performative, but maybe you just want to drill correct practice into my head for its own sake.

I know this pretty harsh when I know you're trying to give me a peptalk/set me on the right course sorry.

[Prism]

Regardless, if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen, and I will sort accordingly as I am able.

[Prism]

I thought him snap inviting me after seeing DGB vote me was +town. Hypothetically it could cause problems for why he stayed on if the elimination actually went through.

Basically the only change. I'm sleeping now so can't really talk anymore tonight.

[Prism]

I wasn't surprised to see peta make that post.

I was incredibly surprised to see it, peta is a man of very few words that range from off the cuff to very carefully selected.

He definitely knows it's time to kind of return the favor now that he's convalesced while I'm on the downswing but that post was very, very long and preaching to me principles that I'm typically the first to espouse. It did not feel like a genuine attempt to talk me specifically but instead make a global appeal, which he seems to have kind of admitted to.

My very first instinct on reading it was a hard scumclaim but I'm not going to follow that.

[Prism]

Every rule has an exception. I go very far out of my way to remove myself and avoid forcing these issues, even in the cases I am most confident in my read.

My distrust of my own reads is so strong that

I literally insisted on playing for a ~2% EV increase over voting someone I felt had no way of being town in white flag.

If he's going to try and talk me specifically off the ledge that's fine but everything about that post says that its target was a general audience and that he's fine letting my beliefs stick.

[Prism]

I was actually surprised at the benhalkum slot being this town, which had/has a good chance of being scum by default, only to remember you're Mod Pizza and suddenly this makes more sense to me.

[Prism]

I've been thinking about who I want to eliminate if not bork.

It'd probably be Skitter but I would not place a vote until I did a lot more backtracking there.

Ben is 3rd but arguably 2nd over Skitter, just kind of ??? easy lurker copout vote that sometimes flips scum.

After that it's Syr into some ordering of ffery/Cabd/peta.

[Prism]

My "do not burn" pile is probably Elements, Notsci, DGB, and Pooky. Vax has been worse lately but probably still shouldn't be burned.

My ??? why do i not have reads on these people tier is peta/ffery/Cabd

My "Sure burn the inactives" list is Syr/ben

My "want to burn pile" is bork tentatively followed by skitter

[Prism]

I'm skimming this ISO and reading this is absolutely hilarious

Those early posts are a work of art but the later ones are about as subtle as that time I tried to get him to buy me Sonic Generations when I was 15

[Prism]

2033 petapan, I haven't actually seen his scumgame recently, only two/three town ones.

[Prism]

713 is actually so classic, some things never change

[Prism]

With the new sample set how does that effect your read on him here?

It's difficult to really apply lessons to this one, here he is being a lot more careful because of the table.

2033 is very bruteforce in its tonal play because he knew he could get away with it. He's intentionally being overly aggressive in 2033 to exploit the lack of experience of the table and leverage probably the biggest strength chat mafia players have over forum ones: having tone down to a science.

I would have instantly read 713 and AFK voted-but he would have never made 713 with me there.

[Prism]

Like I dunno, maybe I'll think on it more and review his ISO, but the style and what's required to win in this game is a big 180.

[Prism]

I'm skimming peta's ISO again through the 600s and I take it back we can vote him

[Prism]

ffery/skitter can you lay out those townreads on peta minus his the state of the union address

address its value as needed but anything else

[Prism]

I am turning into a gutreading, hipfiring animal. I'm terrorizing friends, family, stray pedestrians, and probably everyone but my enemies

[Prism]

scum!peta can make it loads worse by encouraging/forcing the prims/bork thing

I think this is really stopping at the first level and not really taking into account that every scum player at this table is thinking at least 2-3 moves deep. He also doesn't have to encourage it at all to keep it in place.

He's avoided convincing me bork is town and has not even tried to actually check into my read before making that longwinded appeal.

Both suggest to me that he's probably just scum.

[Prism]

Real recording of me reading the gift peta gave me with that post.

[Prism]

I'm still voting bork tbf but there's nothing better than us slapfighting

He scumread me incorrectly in Chara's Folly while I townread him so it's only right we even the score

[Prism]

Aw shit

That's my bad peta

[Prism]

Now he has two reasons to be mad at me if he's town FUCK

[Prism]

I'm down to yeet either of Syr/peta until they give me reason not to, especially the former.

[Prism]

Notsci re: cohort I thought you made a good point earlier about ffery w/ timing the paranoia

My limitation here is a solid 80% of ffery/Candy content is the weird dance that I get zero out of, I've never seen either as scum. Ffery I wanted more from but even when she gave more I was kinda eh. Cabd is doing fine even though one of bork/Peta made a good point about him waiting in the wings. I'm much more inclined to view playstyle switch as NAI-if he wants to go deep as scum it's pretty much essential.

[Prism]

She's early posting was fine but then he disappeared, place a bad vote on me and, to the best of my recollection, has yet to do anything or explain his vote besides that he didn't like my readslist since then.

First pass I liked the skitter non-explanation, second pass NAI

[Prism]

Syr, not ffery. Phone autocorrected to She in 1856

[Prism]

LMAO GOD I WISH I WERE NOT ON MY PHONE RIGHT NOW

[Prism]

In what world is bork the dogged one? Have you read the last 15 pages?

[Prism]

I'm so scared of losing this 1v1 against bork that I want to gladiate with myself already at E-2, this is galaxy brain

[Prism]

I was literally voting and pushing bork that entire time lmao iirc

Absolutely clueless

[Prism]

Literally bork tried to disengage, I kept pushing him because disengaging at the point he thinks he's found scum makes no fucking sense, and then he comes back with the wall. At this point I wonder if he'd lean into the 1v1 as scum like that over hoping I just take interest somewhere else eventually

What are you smoking and where can I get some?

[Prism]

I'll take that as an invitation to shoo for now which is probably best anyway, at least until I get to a computer or actually reread Skitter/ffery etc

[Prism]

talk to me, fucker

You haven't given me anything to talk about. You've had several chances to talk to me about your bork townread or to understand why I'm actually scumreading him. The former you avoid like the plague, the latter you put off.

I'm tired and probably about to go to bed as soon as I shovel enough calories but the ball's in your court here.

[Prism]

Also peta I'm mad that you didn't acknowledge this confession, you were right, you called me out and I backtracked and I'm coming clean all these years later.

[Prism]

I'm about to go to bed so we're definitely not talking right now, I just really don't know what you expected from that invitation without any topic of your own and multiple dodges of the ones I suggest

[Prism]

For some reason I'm still awake, I have a lot to say in the morning to both skitter and peta later about those perspectives which are mostly right

but peta's last sentence is outright scumclaiming

VOTE: petapan

[Prism]

i instinctively townread the way bork reacts with a big ol' WTF to what he's being hit with even though that would probably be genuine as either alignment,

but it can't be helped.

I am hardcalling bullshit that he feels this way, this is instinctive fake nuance garbage

[Prism]

So skitter your model of me is pretty spot on though this is worth giving a minor addendum/correction

- and that in order to sort out/resolve/hash out conflicts in the gamestate, gladiates are useful/important no matter how unpleasant it might be for the game overall and prism themself (this undercurrent runs through *many* of their posts)

So in general I totally agree with peta that stupid powertunnels/gladiates lose games, often even when the person initiating it is right.

Bork and I can't even talk about our reads. The word that kept coming to mind while I thought about how to respond kindly to 1208 was "colossal failure". If bork is town I really see no way to communicate about our reads. Maybe this was fixable at some point, or will be in the far future, but at the time of this post I spent

hours

racking my brain for a solution only to come up with nothing.

This is what prompted my "exception over the rule" remark, and was the point of 1654. He might be town but it's just not fixable without us flipping, and I'd rather sooner than later.

[Prism]

mid-data review of bork, and i do feel like this is basically the root of the whole fight to begin with, prism makes an assessment of elements's play as bold for scum, bork comes in disagreeing from a theoretical perspective in the infamous 239, prism takes it as a discredit and blows the hell up, but really it's just fundamentally different ideas about the game. for what it's worth my own theoretical view is much closer to bork's - i think a significant number of players will opt to simply "go with the flow" as scum, so to speak, and avoid picking fights with strong, active voices, who they will townread because of perceived optics.

I think you're missing the significance of the interaction for me.

I understand fully disagreeing with my read on Elements. It's very plausible to make an overly strong statement/framing to highlight why you (in this case bork) disagrees

Spoiler: Significance of the interaction, long/weeds

However, I scumread bork already, and I suspected his questioning was not in good faith (actually trying to sort me or be persuaded). This suspicion prompted my vote before 239. I did not like the strawman because it confirmed my suspicion-he definitely got why I townread Elements but rather than disagreeing and calling it a day, responded with the strawman to keep going.

bork scumreads me in large part because he thinks I'm using 239 as a post-facto justification for my vote and that I reacted so strongly to 239 to dodge talking about it. This is absurd given my immediate response to 239, 242, separates the issues immediately and makes clear that my vote was for. Bork also literally just flat out refuses to acknowledge that 239 was even trying to undermine my point, which is

absolutely insane

It's not just a theoretical disagreement. My vote is not about him disagreeing with my Elements read at all.

[Prism]

Prism, you're gonna have to elaborate on the peta bit

Honestly, I don't really think I can. His post was fine up until the very last part where he said "but it can't be helped" and at that point to borrow a line from DGB scumdar go BZZZZZZZZT

If he townreads bork instinctively but thinks it's untrustworthy, that's okay, but he can absolutely help it by either sticking to it/looking for confirmation or just ignoring it or tossing it to the side.

[Prism]

Peta's 1991 is also way too kind to me given the interpretation he's describing. I don't really agree with his word choice of "blew up", but the thought does not even pass through his mind that I blew up over something theoretical in order to be more aggressive as scum, something he's already indicated he's wary of.

I don't see him taking out of this that I blew up over something theoretical without him immediately doubting his read and wondering bork is right. My page 39 is more likely to come from town but is absolutely within my scumrange, and I have a hard time buying he has me town for anything else recent.

I'm town but this interpretation and me pivoting to him should be redflags and peta is barreling ahead on his townread completely undeterred. He's seen a bit more of my towngame but he is more paranoid of me than this for sure.

[Prism]

I don't see why having a scumread well before the argument happened is being unreasonable.

[Prism]

Like, if I'm wrong and unreasonable, oh well, but so far you've only explained why it's fine for bork to disagree with me on Elements, and I totally agree and never cared that he did that

[Prism]

Sorry I can't hear you I searched "can't be helped" and "helped" in your posts and now I'm reading crypto being mad in nightless

[Prism]

Okay I read it, if you're town I'm being unreasonable, glad we can shake on it

[Prism]

Okay, I'm reading Cabd/skitter/ffery after lunch, I'm saying this so that someone can hold me accountable

[Prism]

My immediate burn pile is {peta, bork, syr}

[Prism]

Peta, I think the simplest way to handle this if you're town is just...find me a scum to vote instead.

Your approach is to collect townreads, but I really oppose one of your inclusions at a minimum. Your interpretation of my/bork's discussion after 239 is fine, and if you think it's town then

shrug, okay

. You haven't convinced me he's town or discussed why I actually scumread him, and you don't have to.

I scumread both of you, if I'm wrong that's on me, but so far I see no reason to trust your PoE or follow you at all.

[Prism]

I don't really feel that's worth an answer.

[Prism]

Who did it fail to reach? I can only think of ffery.

[Prism]

I was more inclined to view Cabd/Syr's reactions to it as positive since they both have you as a top TR, and the latter is voting me, but I guess level of engagement is another measure.

[Prism]

That doesn't really match your original post, where the invitation was for them to get a handle on you rather than the opposite, but it's pedantic and we can move on.

[Prism]

It's a two-way street.

If that's to me, I agree completely and that's why I think it's fine to move on. The significance of the verbal mismatch is subjective until resolved by flip.

[Prism]

I think there's just page 75, where I claim Syr isn't reading the game.

If you want to talk about who's more dogged we can but I don't see a pressing need to, thinking I wasn't pushing it that hard while you came in with at least a more forceful wall post is fine to me. Syr acting like I was content to let it die is the bigger issue given that I was actively making posts like 868 in response to your first attempt to disengage.

[Prism]

Eh, I could have been nicer to Syr looking back at it. That section about bork being dogged doesn't have to be read that comparatively, and even if it is there's gaps that can be filled in without that much trouble.

[Prism]

@Syrana

I actually want to revisit this.

I've got it stuck in my head about prism that they don't really believe half the stuff they say. Like when skitter pointed me to that whack ass trajectory they had on bork it really resonated with me and that plus the disengagement just reads to me as "I can't win this fight" more so than "I'm town and this isn't productive". Bork's not really trying to de-escalate but weirdly I'm assigning townpoints to him for it because a) I don't think scum him pushes that 1v1 and b) I also think bork's dogged persistence is town indicative for him because he sees something that doesn't make sense to him and will pursue it until he either gets a satisfactory answer or yeets the offender in question.

I think your A) here, in conjunction with hating my progression w/ doubting my read, is really weird.

The entire point of my unvote was actually that I thought the same thing:

Bork actually has no reason to circle back to this fight as scum here. He also doesn't have reason to still blatantly get the timeline wrong.

I can get thinking that I'm scared of the fight-but why was this trajectory whack given you immediately thought the same thing about bork not forcing the 1v1?

[Prism]

In that vein they'll probably hate just about everything I cite here!

Just kidding, this one was okay. I've still been a lazy piece of shit on skitter though and have been way too content to just powerbomb petapan instead of rereading

[Prism]

I hate literally everything about the tone of 2099 :~(

You might have a point here in that the previous ones were wrong but felt genuine, these are right but feel eh

[Prism]

That is a real post I just made. I am off the rails and someone needs to call my parents to come pick me up.

[Prism]

I'm also kind of curious as to what the "falter" the dance of me/petapan is they're looking for given that petapan has failed the dance with flying colors in my book.

[Prism]

It is, however, worth noting that my/petapan's history of dancing is very different from yours and Cabd.

90% of the time one steps on a foot, the other says to watch where you're stepping you clumsy motherfucker, the first replies "Who you callin' clumsy?" and before you know we're whacking each other with our heels and both of our dresses are torn and we never liked the other anyway and we both flip town

10% of the time Usher or Adele is on and hell yeah that's our jam and it's all okay

[Prism]

I've spent the last week wandering in a forest, dark and seemingly inscrutable. I cut my way through the overgrowth, stepping over ivies and dipping under vines. My supplies should be running low, but it's weird-it's like the bag was never touched at all, like I'm still at the very start of the journey.

Finally, after pushing my way through a thick swath of tall grass laden with fallen branches, I arrive at a small pond of water. Next to it is a simple, faded sign reading "Page 85". As I peer over to take a look, I marvel at how cool it is to the touch, how entrancing to look at, gentle waves rippling with purpose. The water is neither reflective nor transparent, however. As I look closer and closer, I realize how clouded the water is, how inscrutable it is in nature. I can make no measure of its depth. Would it stop at my elbow, or does it fall to the center of the earth? Two creatures flicker towards the surface before immediately retreating once more into the mist.

It's at once inviting and terrifying. Dread washes over me as I lean closer and closer. There's a feeling that if I reach in, or partially submerge myself I'll finally see what lies beneath the surface...but also the intuition that I may never make it out. Look closer, closer, closer.....I blink once, and the sound of a faraway tiger startles me and breaks the spell. It's time for me to leave. Glancing once more over my shoulder, I wonder if I'll regret never leaning further, reaching deeper into those depths.

Goodbye, page 85. May we never meet again someday.

[Prism]

I really wanted to post "Where the fuck is the magical bear?" I didn't really want to interrupt what was going on further

Welcome back Pooky, any thoughts to share?

[Prism]

Not home atm, not a fan of the vote. Reads are about what I would expect out of unwnd as town given what I saw from him about FL.

[Prism]

Eh actually that doesn't make him town. Maybe carry on.

[Prism]

I respond to certain sections of posts as though I am wrong. Pretty consistent theme you can look through in the two Undertake minis, don't want to link on my phone.

I am absolutely above certain complaints of peta's, in that his opinion of my play is so worthless as to be zero. This sounds malicious, but I would say the same for any other player. Praise and criticism alike both go immediately in the garbage, and it tends to be infuriating for other people to deal with. I play to win the game and not to salvage peta's opinion of me.

I'm pushing him and know he'll get angry for it if he's town, and that he has a right to feel that way.

Very abbreviated sorry

[Prism]

Absolutely not, his reaction at multiple points has made me instantly think he's scum. If he's town he's town and that's on me but him getting angry here is not a grand towntell, he knows he has to do it as scum and I'm not listening to the salty tears.

[Prism]

Sure.

[Prism]

I don't really mind voting this since pushing me is pretty NAI here for unwnd imo but I have too long of a backlog even though I waste all day procrastinating. No reason for me to rush the day.

[Prism]

I almost posted the same bork but with only 3 lmao

[Prism]

So, from what I can gather you're skeptical of how I have this weird half-kind, half-aggressive slapping peta's hand away approach as town.

Why does this scream T/S for you if peta's just town and I'm the issue?

[Prism]

I mean I buy it completely Cabd but I like to do due diligence, sorry.

[Prism]

??? Petapan literally has had me as hardtown

For awhile he shouldn't have which was a big issue. Chance of him not knowing it now is virtually zero though

[Prism]

This...also just still doesn't answer why you think it's 1-1. It was just a restatement of why you individually scumread me, which I exactly the opposite of what I asked for.

Why does me flipping town mean petapan is scum to you? You clearly do not place any value in my reasoning here.

[Prism]

It's also a thing town does, you said you thought one of us has to be scum and I wanted to know why that was the case. If you want to say something like it led you to just dig deeper into me and you don't think Peta is scum if I flip town than that's okay, but you literally could have just said that lmao

[Prism]

I literally asked why you believed something you said. It's going to be okay, dude.

[Prism]

That type of behavior just doesn't sit right with me, and the conclusion I reached is that at least one of you has to be scum.

I was asking about this, which implies Prism town -> Peta scum.

Never said you scumread Peta, entire point of previous posts is that if you don't believe that implication and just scumread me it's fine, but

if you did

, I wanted to know why

[Prism]

I think when it came to you I explicitly said independently did I not?

That was the entire point of why I asked about the TvS clause, the reverse didn't seem to follow because you just liked Peta and hated me. Now that you have clarified you do not believe Prism town->Peta scum, it is answered.

[Prism]

Spoiler: for unwnd

But then I found myself really agreeing with Peta's logical sorting and that he wasn't nearly as inclined to being baited. Yet you kept doing it. Why? You've gotten him all pissed off from what I understand, but another thing I is that you kinda forgive him sometimes and other times when he's not on the thread bickering with you, you go into this type of mode that seems like you're above his complaints and it could make him scum. That type of behavior just doesn't sit right with me,

and the conclusion I reached is that at least one of you has to be scum.

I'm leaning on you in terms of what I said previously and just digging Peta more in the outcomes

I misread the bolded as a logical biconditional, rather than the 'at least one'.

Both my interpretation, and what you said in reality, contain the requirements that Peta town -> Prism scum and Prism town -> Peta scum. What you actually said contains a S/S possibility that the biconditional doesn't allow, which is my fault for missing, but neither of us have been concerned with that I think.

Your post makes it clear that you scumread me and think Peta is town, and more specifically, you just don't agree with me on him at all. Peta town->Prism scum is accounted for!

This makes me wonder where you would be coming from with believing Prism town->Peta scum.

From here, I ask why it's T/S to you if I'm just the issue.

2314 responds that you individually don't like me, which I already knew: I'm asking about Prism town->Peta scum, so I restate the question in 2327

You respond with 2338 which does incidentally answer my question by saying you don't believe that, but I'm annoyed because I'm literally sorting you not pushing you with this, which is why I'm like "I'm literally just asking you about something you said"

Thinking I'm nitpicking by asking to begin with is fine and is like w/e, but I was curious about a belief you seemed to hold that didn't make sense to me. When you said you didn't believe that, that was enough for me.

[Prism]

Spoiler: for unwnd

My question to you is that would the process of this feedback loop and 5 more like pages like bork exclaims really help you reading me?

I asked you about a belief I was skeptical of that did follow from what you literally stated. It's great that you clarified you didn't believe this. I would have loved for it to take a 2 post Q/A.

Respectfully, you did not come into that giving my question a fair shake, and what made it so bad was you instantly connected it as yet another case of Prism-talk malfeasance.

I am aware that I am a common theme and that I have failed to communicate my points clearly this game. However, I do not think your mindset going into this helped. I don't intend to speak on this again.

[Prism]

I don't really like the current gamestate. My opinion, for better or for worse, is being completely discarded. Bork/Petapan are celebrating camaraderie without realizing they're celebrating not knowing what "at least one is scum" implies.

I'm pretty convinced at this point that playing into it is intentional on petapan's part to shut me out, and I actually think bork is more town for it. My approach has to differ drastically.

[Prism]

Are you really so eager to get into another pedantic argument with me over nothing, peta?

[Prism]

Same deal goes to prism on uwnd-peta, btw.

I'm not doing a preflip, unwnd scumreading my style/posting was fine and fully what I expected from him as town. My "Eh maybe it's NAI actually" came from remembering that being wrong actually helps when you're scum repping in.

Syr wasn't great and was inactive but I'm not going on a wild preflip goose chase.

[Prism]

Cool then once we flip unwnd day two can be a gladiate or fucking whatever between you two if you really insist.

Things aren't so easy. The only leverage you have over me here is the wagon on me. I'm more than fine stalling: I have enough ideas to become more effective this game, and a lot of them involve voices currently absent.

[Prism]

It is indeed referring to just 2376, which coming off of unwnd's posting felt like a three man pile on about how incomprehensible I am. it is going to be pedantic arguing whether or not this qualifies for subjective perceptions of your intent. "Woe is me" isn't the point of the post but drilling it into myself that I needed to find a way

around

what was happening, and not simply check out of the game as was tempting after 2376.

Your vote was already there DGB.

[Prism]

Your response to this has not been to give me space to reevaluate my approach, which should be of great interest to you, and instead get into another pedantic argument with you about my perception of 2376.

I highly doubt this is unintentional.

[Prism]

Prism I'm no longer on you, but if I may appease you in some way but I do not think that the scumteam is so largely concerned with you that they would seemingly keep pushing the issue at the expense of losing their thread credibility. You're a dangerous topic, and I recognize that. That danger also represents a potential threat to scum as well, wherein they are simply not posting because they don't want get thrown a few punches at them as well. Humor me on this perspective

I appreciated your post a lot. Even your push highlighted that this issue is just going to snowball until I do something

radically

different, and that's valuable. In this case, I want to wait on skitter and leverage her perspective and voice if she's town.

Respectfully, petapan has not lost his thread credibility and has nothing to lose here. He has gained his credibility almost entirely at my expense, and has every incentive to milk it and refuse to let me gain a more even footing.

[Prism]

I think the time you would have doubted me being town was like, 30 pages back when I first repudiated your politicking speech, or when you first reread bork's perspective and thought I was being overly aggressive.

In contrast, I think you do understand me well enough to know that I don't do

literally anything

I've done the last ~15 pages as scum except maybe defuse w/ unwnd.

Cry more.

[Prism]

I don't really think I'm worth conversing with if you're town either.

[Prism]

I was sitting at {Peta, DGB, MOD Slot,

Vax

} as my townreads with {Prism, Pooky,

Vax

} as my scumreads

Looking at your later posts I think Vax is a scumread, was there someone that was meant to take his place in the townread list?

[Prism]

Hint: I choose to believe you just caught faked reads; not a simple mistake and I love you for it.

I know, and the skitter wallpost made me know you liked stuff like that, but I like to give benefit of the doubt so here we are.

[Prism]

I really think you're spending a lot of time trying to convince Cabd over like, sorting him first or really chewing on what his answers mean for his alignment.

If he's scum there's no point in even arguing like this with him.

[Prism]

Spoiler: For peta

My genuine olive branch is that I know that me being

this

incredibly wrong if I'm town, in conjunction with my insistence that only my own opinion on my play matters, can be deeply infuriating. There have been numerous points where I've wanted to say something mean in response to your previous posts, eg. about me being so fucking incomprehensible, and about my not being worth conversing with, but I've held my tongue. I appreciate the restraint you've exercised to this point, too, given how maddening I know I can be. I think you're scum but my stance is that I will let the flips resolve themselves. It's easy for me to say as the impossibly dumb motherfucker, but this is not personal to me, and I think you know that I would still love you even if our spots were flipped.

I'm going to bed, but I hope you sleep well, I do still love you, and I hope you're still my friend even if it turns out I am a complete moron, which would not be the first time and will not be the last.

[Prism]

Regardless of his alignment, I genuinely fully agree with petapan's statement that I am the most toxic person in the game regardless of role card. My intentions do not really matter. I will cede the floor for the next 24 hours unless called on to claim.

[Prism]

It's not quite 24 hours but I feel compelled to say I'm through page 14 of this game and bork looks significantly better given more of what I've seen as far as his caution/careful picking goes as a player.

Looking ahead to this page 2653/2656 just seem hard town.

P-Edit: LMAO

[Prism]

and this has been prism's MO the whole game

I get why you think this based off my interaction and the early one with petapan. I think what happened with unwnd really came because he already bought into your mindset. My question was very, very standard and he immediately linked arms with you.

For petapan, I was not trying to bait you with my "Are you so eager?" but I was indeed trying to push you to back off. I'm glad to see you're no longer tilted. I am fine staying separate.

I have a lot more to read but that was worth dropping in for. Syr's also dogshit so far if it helps notsci.

[Prism]

Yeaaaaaaaah but here's we are with stubborn people being presidents to my guilllatina day two.

I know it means nothing until I actually vote but I'm not townreading Syr. One or both of my reads/approach were wrong, and I'm very persistent at finding

some

way around my own limitations when I feel this is the case.

[Prism]

For peta, I'm going to risk it.

You're either deepwolfing or just town. It's going to take more time to correct me if I'm wrong on you. Carry me in the meantime. My station as an ineffectual, unpersuasive but townread voter is my dream scenario as scum. It gives me near infinite freedom, and the wrong flips in the meantime give me more credibility as the number of eliminations needed to win gets closer. Yet I desperately want to change it. I also have no interest in exploiting your meltdown last night-it's NAI at worst and town at best.

If you disagree, that's fine, you don't have to get into it.

[Prism]

I'm glad that didn't backfire. If we're both town hopefully we figure it out.

That said, some boomer on my Facebook posted this and I couldn't help but think of u bb

Seriously though, thanks for trying to be patient.

[Prism]

If you are town I will be auto voting Prism tomorrow, for what it’s worth. Maybe I’ll consider vax

Sitting at E-2 all game long and I haven't once voted a viable counterwagon. Bold.

[Prism]

The others are right that you are the main instigator in the thread. I just don’t think you make sense with unwnd who I am currently trying to kill.

I'm aware of my status as the common denominator. Can we move on?

[Prism]

I guess not, moving on would make no sense actually. Reality is not so kind to me.

[Prism]

Sigh.

Back to reading, then.

[Prism]

I was about to post "If you're that eager for me to hammer you, I'll grant your wish" but Vax voted while I was counting. Shame.

[Prism]

I play it slow, Cabd. It's my nature.

[Prism]

Can you tl;dr why he's town to me skitter? Feel free to just link a post if you want.

His reads on entry were good imo but pretty easy to give if he's been following along. I think notsci said something similar. I found a lot of Syr's posts rough later on. Early posting is eh, I hated 314 on Vax on this reread but might just be seeing what I want to see. I didn't like 281 my first time through but hate it even more on my second. There's also two things I really didn't like about unwnd but one had the potential to cause Prism-instigated firestorm #200 so I held back, the other was him not really trying that hard to sort Cabd.

[Prism]

I guess it'll take me more time to read ffery but stumbling on this post again greatly bothered me:

It's probably naive of me to think this way, but I feel like I got a useful-ish grasp of how you think as scum from the dead/spectator PT in the FGO game. I may get around to reading some of the scum games you linked, but for now I'm kinda happy with the scum-prism model I have not really matching your play here.

The post she's referencing are about how scum have to take a stronger voice and throw their weight around to prevent townblocs from forming.

Every single player in this game thinks that I have done this, but this doesn't really seem to factor into her read of me later. I get that she has individual reasons to townread me but where's the model?

It's E-2. I will immediately hammer when you vote.

[Prism]

Vax is currently on me.

[Prism]

I think I've stalled enough.

VOTE: unwnd

[Prism]

Even I want blood at this point but this isn't a bad idea, shorten the deadline replace to ~16 hr and give the replacement overnight to read.

Time elapsed since benhalkum made a game-related comment

[Prism]

I guess, I was wondering how that model has been used/carried forward for you past the opening.

[Prism]

Problem with that game was definitely needing someone to infiltrate but they're 1A/1B.

[Prism]

The one thing I am concerned about wrt Prism is they *are* instigating a lot of 1v1s. I don’t have the time to go and dig through their past games to see if it’s more likely as either alignment, but I feel like their perspective has been much more broad in my recollection.

The one thing I am concerned about wrt Prism is they *are* instigating a lot of 1v1s. I don’t have the time to go and dig through their past games to see if it’s more likely as either alignment, but I feel like their perspective has been much more broad in my recollection.

I forgot about this, I'll annoy you by giving you the cliffnotes and saying it's my bread and butter, first game onsite I leveraged this to great success against implosion, more prominent example was intentionally using a VI to demoralize town and virtually end Mod is Mafia on Day 1. Difference here is it's unintentional, but it's my fault regardless.

[Prism]

Mmmmm fair enough, I definitely don't expect anyone to actually meta me. I was just wondering whether that model was what you were comparing "against" well into the 80s/90s.

[Prism]

I'm not really a fan of preflip celebrations. I'm optimistic but I can wait.

[Prism]

DGB, am I still your top pick?

I wasn't going to reread until I confirmed I lived, I'll get to it when I feel like it and before I place a vote.

My instinct is just to vote ben and call it a day.

If peta's still reading CYA NERD LMAO

[Prism]

To quote an old Pooky line, "I've never bussed Day 1". Maybe he finally broke it but I'm fine giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[Prism]

If you want it to get weirder Cabd I accidentally softed watcher while trying to shitpost about Power Rangers yet I'm still alive somehow.

[Prism]

About time, my positioning around that wagon was suspicious as hell which is why I took issue with the unwnd town -> Prism scum shit you were spewing, also hated the peta "prism hardspewed town" line

[Prism]

Pooky could have very easily sat on me instead of unvoting the moment DGB came aboard. I'm fine giving him a pass for awhile.

[Prism]

Sorry Boxer the horse but you've got work to do

[Prism]

I'll shut the fuck up and let the main characters play for awhile but my inclination is vote Ben/Bork with Pooky/skitter ondeck. Syr's interactions with ffery are great for her.

unwnd definitely gave up the minute he voted me, completely disappeared from the thread even while posting elsewhere until the second skitter hammered.

[Prism]

Dunno, you're not me, early interactions w/ Syr weren't great to me, haven't read the rest.

[Prism]

Anything else you want or can I do something else now?

[Prism]

If you want it to get weirder Cabd I accidentally softed watcher while trying to shitpost about Power Rangers yet I'm still alive somehow.

You could have hard claimed every rile and no one would have noticed due to the language barrier.

Are you going to do anything this game other than go out of your way to mock me every other post?

[Prism]

I'm longwinded, my reads are incomprehensible, I talk about nothing/actively serve to distract. Now that we're on the same page do something else.

[Prism]

I have zero curiousity about the scumteam is and zero interest in the game. I will do the minimum and call it a day.

[Prism]

Pretty puzzled by Ben's reaction in 2914 given that the people playing dumb games got a Day 1 scumflip with Ben nowhere to be found in the process.

Syr's interactions with this slot are hot garbage.

VOTE: benhalkum

[Prism]

Bork's interactions w/ Syr get better. Syr's read on skitter for reasons he couldn't talk about was a very well done touch in general but especially as S/S. Don't really know who I'd vote second here.

[Prism]

Persuasive.

[Prism]

I'm with Pooky's theory for now. unwnd had little incentive to back off of me unless he needed my vote or it would seriously fuck over the scumteam if he successfully flipped me

Too many town refused to go on me yesterday, which makes sense with all of Cabd/petapan/Notsci/skitter hard townreading me yesterday, I can't remember but maybe ffery too. Extremely difficult to actually get me flipped with 5/6 town votes off the table already. unwnd's focus on selling himself over pushing me tells me all I need to know about how he thought that 1v1 would work long-term for scum: Either a loss or would require all scum being on the wagon.

Counterpoint might be that him voting me was the moment he gave up, still plenty of town to convince to swing so obviously satisfied with what happened/where scum votes were.

[Prism]

Actually I can't remember when petapan's meltdown was in relation to unwnd's progression, maybe strike him from that list.

[Prism]

Defending myself against...no argument, just an AFK vote from notsci.

[Prism]

I also just thought about the question "Who here even wants to bus Syryana Day 1?" and the answer is probably no one.

[Prism]

Bork, do you mind giving specific thoughts about the Ben slot?

Pooky could have easily sat on me yesterday but chose to unvote the second DGB came onboard. Pretty content to just let the unwnd vote happen while taking 0 credit. He also displayed a very similar willingness to defer to being carried by others in my other game with him (Acted similarly w/ Hectic in Chara's Folly), so that post really isn't out of character imo. Only thing I'm skeptical of is that he's normally a more paranoid bear.

[Prism]

I'm also kind of curious as to where I went to alignment wise in your mind, I don't want to get into the weeds or debate whatever read you have but I don't think you've said a word about it today yet.

[Prism]

I don't necessarily agree that you wouldn't kill peta, and your shift to disinterest since the start of the day is not really what I'd expect either considering a scum flip.

I am miserable and I do not want to play.

The major source of my disinterest is long and convoluted, the tl;dr of which is realizing that petapan/Regfan both have something important I don't: A genuine curiosity and interest in the puzzle of the game. They can't help themselves from playing more games, spectating more games, and guessing as to who is what. I don't feel the same. I can grind like no other, and am a fierce competitor, but I simply don't have the same curiosity. I can grind like no other, and I am a fierce competitor, but the most important door is sealed to me. There are other games better suited for me to play.

The minor one is simply that I don't enjoy/like the table whatsoever, and it is probably mutual so we can leave it at that.

[Prism]

Anyway, thanks for answering those. Not going to act like I'm the biggest fan of the answers but I appreciate it and Ben is probably where I'm voteparking all day anyway.

[Prism]

I am openly dartthrowing, literally everyone else is extremely town to me except for Ben and Bork. Skitter takes next lowest just for the positioning around me/bork, but objectively their posting has been fine and they've literally made 1 mistake all game if they're scum imo. DGB/Elements are also both just kind of gut.

Skitter did an analysis of Syr's interactions that echoed my thoughts almost perfectly...except for 924, which she thought pointed away from Ben.

[Prism]

You're also not even trying to sell me as the alternative right now so ???

[Prism]

I townread everyone on Ben atm, which isn't really hard tbh since I TR everyone except Ben/Bork.

The game is literally unplayable for a hypothetical Ben partner right now. They cannot go to bat for his slot and are entirely dependent on someone decent replacing into the slot and saving the game.

I get basically zero out of the current game state.

[Prism]

You can push someone else, you can stand pat to see what happens, or you can defend.

First clearly didn't happen, is risky but not the worst. Third is suicide. Second likely happened and this is the result. They're essentially forced to stick to it and bet on the replacement.

If it wasn't inevitable you can afford to stand pat for a few days. You're trying to have it both ways here by saying it wasn't inevitable but they would have taken action imo. In hindsight it's easy to see that standing pat was wrong.

[Prism]

Agree to disagree I guess. He might be town but I don't think the gamestate tells me that.

Scum are absolutely fine with this if Ben is town, but the fact he's getting voted in itself really doesn't say as much to me given that choosing to play more assertively a few days ago is hard, even if correct, and atm scum's easiest choice is to defer and bet on whims of town/a strong replacement.

[Prism]

I've tried to remove more specific partner guesses from the ben-scum viewpoint I've been arguing, instead only assuming the wagon is all town (big assumption, but borderline required), but it doesn't really help that my preferred second pick (Bork) has played extremely passively for most of the game and as scum would have spent all day clearly waiting to see where the wind is blowing

[Prism]

Anyway, thanks for answering those. Not going to act like I'm the biggest fan of the answers but I appreciate it

...is it gonna be worth it to ask why you think that

3031 is an accurate analysis but takes no stance. 3032 is plausible and addresses why you haven't come into the day pushing my slot but isn't like particularly insightful.

They're fine posts but not beacons of town light. You came in a bit aggressive on Pooky early in the day and had an awkward engagement. I'm concerned about you standing pat for the most part and not engaging more directly with that read on me before I asked.

[Prism]

"takes a pretty neutral stance" might be a better description for 3031, which is different than no stance at all.

[Prism]

man if that isn't just a moving of the goalposts i don't know what is

You asked why I wasn't the biggest fan of the posts. How I feel in reaction to them is very up to me.

They addressed my questions in plausible but not particularly persuasive ways. I didn't hate them but what I took from them was that I was right to be concerned.

[Prism]

this just quite frankly reads as nonsense

Can you be more specific?

At the risk of strawmanning, it feels like you're expecting that if I accept an explanation as reasonable/plausible that I have to accept you as town or your response as likely true. Understanding why you would have a reaction as town does not mean that I have to view it as the most likely option.

[Prism]

I appreciated you answering the questions but like, you don't become town to me for answering reasonably. We answer things reasonably all the time as scum.

If by "moving the goalposts" you think there's a conflict between my original phrase of "not the biggest fan" and later "They were fine posts but not beacons of town light", the latter is referring to the fact that while there was nothing blatantly wrong with them, they reinforced the concerns that led me to ask to begin with.

On a scale of 1-5 where 1 is hate, 5 is love, I'd give the posts a 2.

[Prism]

Right, well, I'm done with this in any case, time to play Sonic Adventure.

[Prism]

I'll toss you one last bone bork. This is a town post of mine.

I guess with Hectic I just really wish he had more depth to his reads; the angles he's taking with reads on Chara, Nacho, Farkran, me, etc. have all been very straightforward with a little progression but not much nuance/life to them.

They're flat but plausible, which is what makes me think them very easily fabricated. He's not making mistakes if he's scum, he's just...not very town.

As for why specifically I did not like them, I will backlink you 3102, which in conjunction with 3088 and some imagination will answer your question.

[Prism]

Alright, now I'm playing Sonic Adventure for real, sorry that this again became a shitshow.

[Prism]

Unfortunately the only person who could vouch was killed last night.

I fucking spat out my milk lmao

[Prism]

benhalkum, petapan openly called you a policy elim

[Prism]

...Are you trying to claim Friendly Neighbor?

[Prism]

I do not buy this in the slightest, but someone else do the thinking on whether or not we ask if it's oneshot or not. My instinct is yes but hypothetically there's value in not claiming it so I'm kicking that can to someone else.

[Prism]

I do not buy this in the slightest, but someone else do the thinking on whether or not we ask if it's oneshot or not. My instinct is yes but hypothetically there's value in not claiming it so I'm kicking that can to someone else.

y don't u buy it

Theater around not claiming the role, questionable choice for his night action.

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

[Prism]

Is this the part where I AFK for a full gameday because I think that was a coached claim to just buy a day or two?

[Prism]

and why wasn't unwnd coached to claim fn again?

lmfao

[Prism]

no, i mean it.
if scum are coaching ben and telling him to claim fn why didn't they dot hat for syr/unwnd yesterday?

1. Unwnd was noticeably angling to go a lot deeper than a single day
2. Unwnd was actively involved and had his own ideas about how best to play the game
3. Your first instinct as scum period is not to tell your team what to do the entire time

[Prism]

I'm not going to pretend to have any backup ideas, I've put all my mental eggs in one basket. I'll chew on it, not voting him today in any case.

[Prism]

Honestly I want to volunteer the be the target just because scum would probably more readily consume manure than shoot me.

But then we get the question of if I'm the one who coached the claim in the first place. Alas.

[Prism]

Not voting Pooky, skitter vote is also unlikely for me. The joys.

VOTE: Bork

Until I come up with a better backup plan to a Ben vote

[Prism]

this game doesnt really make sense to me

It made sense to me until Ben claimed FN.

[Prism]

Bork, wanna hold hands for once and humbly request a gladiate so we can get this over with?

[Prism]

what are we getting over with lol

Day, game, each other, take your pick

[Prism]

Why does scum syry even get involved that fast in a scum ffery town Cabd world? Wouldn’t he be concerned of them both going down?

I'm inclined to think ffery is town but this is really bad reasoning given the interactions-Syr was very adamantly against/scared of Cabd joining in the conversation. If you're worried about Cabd, you want to put on exactly the show Syr/ffery did while hoping he doesn't get personally involved. This also gives an excuse of why both can avoid Cabd individually.

[Prism]

That I agree with.

[Prism]

I'm not going to say that I have something in common with Mr. Meeseeks but I will say voting in bork and myself is probably a win/win.

[Prism]

I’m sad skitter hasn’t invited her favorite teddy bear to his own execution

Pooky you do have your moments of being a more assertive, opinion-holding, casemaking bear.

That'd be nice to see right about now.

[Prism]

when did dgb become my best friend

[Prism]

I'm back.

Oh you sweet summer child

Welcome to The Good Place!

[Prism]

Pooky just saw a man get lit on fire in the street over trusttelling as scum, I think he knows he's got to burn it. Might be the game for it but that unvote on me hardtrolled his entire team if he's scum.

[Prism]

Pooky I'm gonna quote this at you instead

I’m sad skitter hasn’t invited her favorite teddy bear to his own execution

Pooky you do have your moments of being a more assertive, opinion-holding, casemaking bear.

That'd be nice to see right about now.

[Prism]

Petapan is literally dead. He's not going to crumb again for you this game. Just out it dude.

[Prism]

i don't really get why this is a big secret

Softing a mechanical result/playing arbitrary keepaway, take your pick.

[Prism]

The chance of Elements being scum despite the style change from Chara's Folly isn't zero, I guess.

I'll read if I feel like it at some point.

[Prism]

That prism was instigating?

Lol

Hasn't been true since before post like 1000, most recent episode was absurd and he really went out of his way to pick that fight and at one point showed he understood what I didn't like/was concerned about only to pretend he didn't like 5 posts later.

[Prism]

For all of your grandstanding notsci you've literally given no reason for bork to be town. Questionable positioning literally all fucking day today, his best posts came in reaction to the Ben FN claim.

[Prism]

I'm concerned about you standing pat for the most part and not engaging more directly with that read on me before I asked.

noted

The real horror story in this scenario is me being forced to play the game to 3 way.

[Prism]

3482's quote is unintentional, I was considering revisiting the issue I mentioned in 3477. I decided against it but maybe this is fate.

[Prism]

I will gladly take that offer if it is on the table.

[Prism]

Up to page 26

Syryana - townlean, willing to vote

Up to page 36

Syryana - town, not willing to vote

Elements, can you discuss what made you change here? I know it's been awhile, sorry.

[Prism]

In general it's a pretty eh vote to me. Their progression on me is a bit questionable-they didn't get my initial Bork vote, didn't like my unvote on him, and then later I'm town for persistence-but they're a lot more free flowing and natural in how they react than the Ele scum I saw.

My sample size of under one game day doesn't inspire confidence in my ability to read them.

To me it's just like,

I fuckin' guess if it's not Ben/Bork

, but when I townread literally everyone except those two it's kind of hard for me to get enthusiastic about my 3rd/4th choices in Ele or Skitter. They're still townleans.

[Prism]

Seems like Skitter thinks there's something for Ele town in Syr's ISO? I guess I can skim that.

[Prism]

Oh I see, the Syr vote lines up with Elements' explanation they gave later. IDK, hypothetical Elements scum world I can see them vote tagging to a partner, but that's because they're

literally just spitball yoloing

as scum which, uh, is a style they can pick.

Kind of weird to work this direction though, which requires me assuming they're scum to begin with.

[Prism]

I cant read fferyllt or prism, so I would have no issues with them being faded. Why are they so unlikely?

Would it be possible to be specific as to why you're having trouble reading us? What are the issues you're running into?

[Prism]

Can we walk this whole fucking thing back and get back to why unwnd is scum other than "syr seemed demoralized after the shitposting phase stopped" because I still feel like that's what all this shit boils down to and I am utterly uninclined to move there

wait, this is why people started voting syr/unwnd?

I'm just going to leave this here and not vote Elements

[Prism]

Slow down they're not a Pooky alt

[Prism]

I was making a joke, but I didn't read 4/5ths of your posts that game anyway.

[Prism]

In the absence of anything else to do

[Prism]

I'm not going to say I'm dartthrowing off a gut townread from like page 50 that I haven't revisited.

I'm not going to say it.