Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Elements]

VOTE: elements

[Elements]

normally by this point I'd have a pretty solid read list but I only know three of your so that ain't gonna happen this time

[Elements]

normally by this point I'd have a pretty solid read list but I only know three of your so that ain't gonna happen this time

You'd typically have a solid reads list by page 2?

yep, I have good gut reads

[Elements]

VD town

[Elements]

Have I played with you that I remember?
Harumi Ayasato - nope
Green Crayons - yup
Lunar Martian - yup
Reformed Toxic Player - nope
Testarossa - nope
Andresvmb - nope
ItalianoVD - yup - only because you pointed it out
VP Baltar - nope
Datisi - yup
Dunnstral - yup
Duchess - nope
RLotus - nope

My early reads come from gut and vibes obviously. So the tone of posts and all that jazz. I wouldn't say I'm familiar with anyone on the play list except maybe Lunar, Datisi, and GC.
Lets get some reads out there:

Harumi Ayasato - scum
Green Crayons - null/town
Lunar Martian - null/scum
Reformed Toxic Player - town
Testarossa - town
Andresvmb - scum
ItalianoVD - town
VP Baltar - town
Datisi - null
Dunnstral - null/scum
Duchess - town
RLotus - null/scum

VOTE: Harumi Ayasato

[Elements]

also my pronouns are they/them thanks

[Elements]

Because they haven't posted

[Elements]

Harumi Ayasato - scum

Is this one all gut too, or is there more there?

gut plus 61
they call me out on "low effort posting" but ignore RTP doing the same thing so clearly they think there's something scummy about page two reads, which I specifically said I didn't have. So they're slightly sussing me for not doing something they think is scummy.

[Elements]

how come i'm the only "null" on that list?

I wanted to put everyone as either town or scum but wasn't confident enough, and nothing you've said has pinged me either way more so than the other

[Elements]

I like datisi

[Elements]

VOTE: duchess

[Elements]

I like datisi

alignment-wise or personality-wise?

both

[Elements]

I 'ain't town reading em, but I'm not scumming them anymore

[Elements]

I don't like that I'm starting to town duchess
UNVOTE:
I like lunar

[Elements]

VOTE: Green Crayons

[Elements]

Elements

- 100% town. Likes to embellish their abilities.

VP Baltar

- Highly consistent in activity and engaging with anyone that happens to be online at the same time as him. Actively trying to solve the game.

midwaybear

- Lunar was towny. Very similar vibes to the last game I played with him. midwaybear's entrance kept the vibes going well.

Reformed Toxic Player

- Relaxed, doesn't seem fussed about what people feel about them. Lots of questioning and probing.

Andresvmb

- Based partly on other people's takes. I like the Dutchess/GC analysis.

RLotus

- Most of the shot posts don't give me anything ai, but the recent take on Me, GC, Italiano voting is a great line of thinking.

Duchess

- Towny side of the middle. The longer analysis posts are giving me town vibes. The constant "Yo Elements, stop ignoring me." without using that as a reason for a read also gives me good vibes. I was disappointed in the towning because I did the same thing of ignoring to norweegianboy at one point from a scum read and their reaction to it just heightened the scumread so I suppose it was a bit of a reaction test.

Datisi

- Haven't figured out how to read this one. I think he's generally quite towny, but other people don't? Not rlly sure what to think.

ItalianoVD

- Cannot remember how I called out his team in the werewolf game but nothing has

Green Crayons

- Fairly null. People have been commenting on tvs with Dutchess and I can see that being either one of them. GC is slightly lower because Dutchess is higher.

Testarossa

- Not a big fan of what's been posted so far, could also be from the pfp.

Dunnstral

- Trusting other people's reads about low activity.

Harumi Ayasato

- Do not like their views on me in the slightest nor the fact they keep bringing the point they don't like how I'm playing up. Seems very set on shading me for some reason and pretty much ignoring the other things going on atm.

VOTE: Harumi Avasato

[Elements]

Datisi - Haven't figured out how to read this one. I think he's generally quite towny, but other people don't? Not rlly sure what to think.

Who thinks Datisi is scummy?

not sure who, but I was getting some vibes that people were. Maybe I only think that because of unconscious projections.

[Elements]

But I’m trying to judge players based on how they’re viewing the one player I’m most skeptical of.

Yes!
Everyone give their thoughts on me!
Fuel my ego!

[Elements]

i'm interested in why other people not thinking i'm townie (?) is enough to drop me down despite them thinking i'm ~quite towny~?

idk how to read you, so i've outsourced it

[Elements]

idk how to read you, so i've outsourced it

?? we've never played together. is there a specific reason why you're not using your own read of me?

I am using it. It's just influenced by other people's opinions

[Elements]

I'm not confident I'm right

[Elements]

Limpool {

RLotus

, Lunar, Green Crayons, Baltar}
Townleaning {

RTP

, Andres, Duchess??)

Harumi

- I have you at null. Your play could come from both town and scum.

2. I know there is at least one scum on me at the present and I can’t figure it out.

Is there a reason you're voting GC over RL?
You're saying you don't know which person on your wagon is scum, but have only one of them in your limpool and townlean another one, why not try to figure out which one is scum?

[Elements]

also where even are elements and dunnstral??

I'm just sittin' around, lurking.

[Elements]

ruuuuude

[Elements]

VOTE: elements
it'll do no such thing!

[Elements]

you replaced tess right?

[Elements]

you're more towny than she was

[Elements]

but that could just be your laid back style

[Elements]

lol do you have anything interesting to say?

nope, that's why I haven't

[Elements]

i can confirm we are equally townie in reality - same role PM

just because you have a town role pm doesn't mean you can't be scummy

[Elements]

I'm town
the best way to tell at this point is probably meta tbh

[Elements]

lol do you have anything interesting to say?

nope, that's why I haven't

you were so quick to trot out gut reads and boast about your ability to read well - the fact you seem to have abandoned that now is scumpinging me

that was all talk
I am a gut read player but I would never seriously claim to be good.
I haven't abandoned it, just nothing has pinged me recently with the slow pace of the game

[Elements]

[quote="In post 724, Battle Mage"][/quote]
my scumgame is much more town apparent. As in, my posts are a lot more solvey and thought out and less impulse thought noise and general garbage

[Elements]

can you link me to a town game and scum game of yours which illustrates why you are playing to your townmeta here? I will read both.

that's some dedication

[Elements]

ill have a look

[Elements]

Town game
Scum game

[Elements]

haha dedication would have been finding them myself, but i couldnt find a recent completed scumgame for you

the only scum games I remember are my first one and gamma emeral's upick where I was caught very early on

[Elements]

my voting has been less jumpy than my normal town play this game I think

[Elements]

let me ask you this - if you were scum here, how would you characterise your meta to make me think you were town? (just a hypothetical exercise so i can understand you better)

I'll have a read through my iso and get back to you

[Elements]

oh wow I didn't realise I'd posted this little

[Elements]

I probably wouldn't self meta. I'd just say I was doing high quality sorting posts.

[Elements]

my voting has been less jumpy than my normal town play this game I think

what do you mean? so you're actually not playing to your town-meta here?

your questions are probing deep into my own understanding of how I play

[Elements]

my voting has been less jumpy than my normal town play this game I think

what do you mean? so you're actually not playing to your town-meta here?

My town game is much more reactionary and erratic than my scum game. That is why at one point I went 5 games in a row as town being a day 1 lim. Or something along those lines. I ain't fussed about people scumming me so I just do. Hence my vote generally bouncing around.
As scum I'm much more self-conscious of how other people see my posting. Hence putting more effort into them.

[Elements]

UNVOTE:

[Elements]

I rlly need to have another completed scum game

[Elements]

I rlly need to have another completed scum game

what do you think about RLotus' ISO? do you think his reads evolve naturally? or is he pretty static?

I feel like you should've asked me before giving your own opinions

[Elements]

I rlly need to have another completed scum game

what do you think about RLotus' ISO? do you think his reads evolve naturally? or is he pretty static?

I feel like you should've asked me before giving your own opinions

why?

so I don't just piggy back of yours

and i'll ask again for your opinion?

I was reading through and I see exactly what you mean. It's very consistent on every read. Even the post I gave town points to as a good take falls nicely into the rest of the reads with italiano and duchess

[Elements]

I scrolled through RL's iso with his readlist open in another tab, and no expressed read is different before or after said list.

[Elements]

Why is he so willing to jump on like whoever's name gets thrown around as scum? That's not a towny mindset. He isn't coming from a solving perspective. He was willing to elim Duchess, Italiano, Andre, Elements, Dunn, me, and you thus far, based on the mood of the thread and if they can get traction.

I often do this as town simply because my vote is all I get. If I don't throw it around wildly what's the point? I don't think this is inherently scummy.

[Elements]

VOTE: elements

*sigh*
Here we go again

[Elements]

elements, do you have like, thoughts on things that are happening right now?

battle mage is town
vpb is town
rtp is rapidly becoming scummier
RL has also dropped in my reads

[Elements]

battle mage is town

They basically single-handedly moved the game and started it back up again

vpb is town

still playing in the same style that got the town read in the first place

rtp is rapidly becoming scummier

should've thought about this more before saying it. no real reason, just vibes

RL has also dropped in my reads

His iso being stagnant with reads the entire game, then when this is pointed out he comes back and starts being active in a way that to me seems like scum panic to put out good town stuff.

an interesting thought has crossed my mind. What if RL is scum, sort of just bobbing along because his scum buddies are inactive; let's say Testarossa and Dunn, then battle mage replaces one of them. Suddenly there's a turnaround in activity from both slots who co-ordinate a back and forth to make both look more towny.

[Elements]

Granted, that was a weird game, but BM feels very loose and natural this game to me.

yea yea, I agree with you. I don't think what I said is the case, it was just something that popped into my head

[Elements]

VOTE: VPB

[Elements]

I think VPB looks real bad from the recent VPB/Duchess interaction

[Elements]

It's VPB ignoring what Duchess has said and just trying to make them look bad

[Elements]

so vpb was playing sucm instead of town then vs what u said at first?

rephrase?

[Elements]

Spoiler:

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't like the preemptive defensiveness here one bit.

Boo hoo.

I'm trying to figure out a reason why town!duchess would make such a wonky and pointless argument.

See 225, Elements.

You're saying this post is where you "caught" elements lurking?

"Absent" implies absolutely nothing except that they were not posting. This could be lurking, real life issues, whatever. But there was never any ambiguity about their absence. They fled when I caught them online and addressed them directly after already ignoring 2 of my questions in a row and drawing the ire of my vote, all while continuing to interact with my wagon from the sidelines. Elements has admitted to deliberately ignoring me. I voiced a great deal of frustration about it. If you're willing to throw out a completely uninformed comment like that, then I cannot trust any other stances you take, minor as it may be. From the rest of your posting, though, and the way you approached RTP in that one post, I would much sooner believe that an unsubstantiated claim like that comes from scum trying to shake things up rather than town who simply missed 100% of the context around another slot and still chose to comment on it anyway.

I honestly don't remember you "catching" elements lurking or whatever. I'll be real with you though: you write a lot of words to say very little, so it's possible I skimmed some bullshit from you that looked boring. My bad.

If you'd like to reiterate your elements case, I'm listening.

This is all mis-representation of what Duchess was saying and then completely ignoring Duchess' responses where his points are disproved. He just keeps of with the same line of thought that's just not true.

[Elements]

wait - so you're jumping on vp for defending you - where from your pov it should be that duchess is scummier here for the type of shade they are pushing your way. eggsplain.

I'm jumping of VP for misrepresenting what Duchess has been saying. The reads have nothing to do with what either of them think of me.
Why are you telling me to townread someone for defending me? Isn't that the point of white knighting (this is not what I think is happening)?
And why does someone scumming me make them scum from my pov? that's also garbage. Loads of people scum read me day 1, it's not uncommon.

[Elements]

duchess has absolutely been tunneled on you since early game - what do you make of that?

Just another in a long line of tunnelers

[Elements]

reads change

[Elements]

what are your thoughts on the VP/Duchess interaction?

[Elements]

is that because you went into the confrontation thinking both were town, or because you think that sort of disagreement would only stem from a tvt scenario?

[Elements]

Spoiler:

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't like the preemptive defensiveness here one bit.

Boo hoo.

I'm trying to figure out a reason why town!duchess would make such a wonky and pointless argument.

See 225, Elements.

You're saying this post is where you "caught" elements lurking?

"Absent" implies absolutely nothing except that they were not posting. This could be lurking, real life issues, whatever. But there was never any ambiguity about their absence. They fled when I caught them online and addressed them directly after already ignoring 2 of my questions in a row and drawing the ire of my vote, all while continuing to interact with my wagon from the sidelines. Elements has admitted to deliberately ignoring me. I voiced a great deal of frustration about it. If you're willing to throw out a completely uninformed comment like that, then I cannot trust any other stances you take, minor as it may be. From the rest of your posting, though, and the way you approached RTP in that one post, I would much sooner believe that an unsubstantiated claim like that comes from scum trying to shake things up rather than town who simply missed 100% of the context around another slot and still chose to comment on it anyway.

I honestly don't remember you "catching" elements lurking or whatever. I'll be real with you though: you write a lot of words to say very little, so it's possible I skimmed some bullshit from you that looked boring. My bad.

If you'd like to reiterate your elements case, I'm listening.

This is all mis-representation of what Duchess was saying and then completely ignoring Duchess' responses where his points are disproved. He just keeps of with the same line of thought that's just not true.

Oh this is fascinating. I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

Duchess' posts are a fucking incoherent mess. Without quoting duchess, I would like you to please tell me the nature of the argument duchess is making and what I'm ignoring about it. I want to see you state this originally, since you say it is very clear.

Btw, elements, the longer you take to answer this, the more likely you are scum

lol
in that case im not answering

[Elements]

elements, do you mind answering that?

the thing I said I wouldn't?

[Elements]

i've got a plan
let's vote me out to prove all your speculations about me being scum wrong
VOTE: elements

[Elements]

i've got a plan
let's vote me out to prove all your speculations about me being scum wrong
VOTE: elements

What was duchess's case on me that I was misrepresenting?

it wasn't a case
you were saying Duchess claimed to have *caught me lurking*
Duchess claim to have *caught me while I was online*
and you just kept saying stuff about catching me lurking

[Elements]

i've got a plan
let's vote me out to prove all your speculations about me being scum wrong
VOTE: elements

are you triggering me on purpose?

If I'm triggered, you can be triggered too

[Elements]

if there somehow isn't scum in <RTP, GC, VB> mafia are having a field day

[Elements]

if GC is scum, why is he not scum reading me?

[Elements]

Because i literally have been pushing you this whole time and have my vote on you

but as scum, why does GC not just agree with the reasons you've voted me and join you? Why is he having a massive argument with you instead

[Elements]

you know im scumreading u... right?

ooh look at mx pre-flip associatives over here

have you considered that I'm town?
It's worth a try. Then you'll be right on at least one person.
But seriously, from my POV scum!GC has 0 reason to not scum me

[Elements]

Elements, here is the post where I address duchess's claims. Would love your feed back on what I said here

Having re-read 989, the entire things seems utterly pointless:
You commented on my low activity
Duchess asked if you had thought about my dodging of the questions posed to me
You said you hadn't considered it as it wasn't a particularly big thing
Duchess said they did a whole push on me because of it, how could you possibly have not seen it.

Given it was an entirely one-sided interaction consisting of 4? posts I can see how you would have not noticed it.

I apologise for not reading through it properly. I rescind my scumread off you. I should really read things properly before commenting.
UNVOTE:

[Elements]

VOTE: RLotus

[Elements]

my pronouns are they/them

[Elements]

no!
sod this
VOTE: maxwell
wtf has this slot done

[Elements]

you just completely omitted that slot from your post RL

[Elements]

Town
{Datisi, Italiano, Andre}
{Midwaybear, GC}
{VPB, RTB, Battle Mage}
{Duchess, Dunn}
{Rlotus, Maxwell}
Scum

[Elements]

so why did you not vote for either of your favorite kill options?

[Elements]

never liked the Harumi slot
maxwell has dome nothing to change that. in fact, done nothing at all

[Elements]

what changed for you when you went from saying basically nothing to suddenly say a lot?

[Elements]

people are generally ambivalent towards you. you're sort of sitting there in the middle of game impact. No one's pushed for you. You're towny enough that scum haven't bothered to push you but not so towny they need to try discredit you. Idk I'm spouting nonsense, vibes.

[Elements]

VOTE: RLotus

[Elements]

@elements why are you voting lotus now?

I don't think anyone I want to vote out is getting voted out and I don't want any of the people it looks like are going to be voted out to be voted out. I also liked maxewll's most recent catch up

[Elements]

why is this day not over

[Elements]

who were the offer compromises?

[Elements]

I agree with this
VOTE: Dunn

[Elements]

UNVOTE:

[Elements]

UNVOTE:

I’m going to need more from you than this, that’s for sure.

I still don't like Dunn but he was on E-1

[Elements]

oooo a pagetop
I'll catch up tomorrow

[Elements]

[quote="In [url=viewtopic.php?p=12635404#p12635404]
I'll reread Lotus's, midway's, and Elements' ISOs later today, as i think they were on the lower end of my town reads, but i might be confusing midway and andre[/quote]
I'll be interested to see what this brings up

[Elements]

I'll reread Lotus's, midway's, and Elements' ISOs later today, as i think they were on the lower end of my town reads, but i might be confusing midway and andre

I'll be interested to see what conclusions you draw from this rather

[Elements]

lol
Cookie Monster's "read list" is a scum claim
VOTE: Cookie Monster

[Elements]

lol
Cookie Monster's "read list" is a scum claim
VOTE: Cookie Monster

Depressingly, don't think so, they appear to be a gimmick alt, not really expecting anything useful from them in terms of content.

I don't really have thoughts on the argument between datisi and andres, they don't look like scum to me, still think midwaybear is scummy.

Cookie monster's read list looks very similar to Duchess'. Read's to me like low effort scum mimicking their predecessor

[Elements]

Elements, what happened to your Lotus focus from D1?

His iso being stagnant with reads the entire game, then when this is pointed out he comes back and starts being active in a way that to me seems like scum panic to put out good town stuff.

an interesting thought has crossed my mind. What if RL is scum, sort of just bobbing along because his scum buddies are inactive; let's say Testarossa and Dunn, then battle mage replaces one of them. Suddenly there's a turnaround in activity from both slots who co-ordinate a back and forth to make both look more towny.

VOTE: RLotus

people are generally ambivalent towards you. you're sort of sitting there in the middle of game impact. No one's pushed for you. You're towny enough that scum haven't bothered to push you but not so towny they need to try discredit you. Idk I'm spouting nonsense, vibes.

VOTE: RLotus

I have more pressing matters atm, I'll get to this game "properly" when that's dealt with

[Elements]

@elements you haven't responded to me about your louts read

as above

[Elements]

I forgot about this not gonna lie

was literally about to say just this