Mini Normal 2199: Baseball (Over)

[samantha97]

hiiii dkkoba

and everyone else

my pre-replace reads after 13 pages:
mozamis town
norwegian town
not_mafia town

flowtrap mafia
kitty mafia

interesting how kitty and flowtrap are voting norwegian

also I'm going to be

this game

I'll still be 100% right but not stress fighting for it; that low quality gif I made in 3 minutes captures it perfectly

gonna go read from page 80 on for now unless there's some critical moment you want me to see asap

[samantha97]

page 80 was too hard to follow so I ended up

skimming

reading the entire thread

*channels Ircher*

yo dkkoba sheep your past self here

Spoiler:

Game's a bit hard to read. Also I was busy yesterday.

TOWN

flow trap
DkKoba
UNOwen

SCUM

Elsa (just kinda a gut read)
Rathe (seems a bit lurky)

NULL

Everyone else, Not_Mafia in particular is just trolling.

How are all those ppl you didnt mention "null"?

bumping cuz important

Mostly either being difficult to read or they didn't post much. I'll admit I am not very good at scumreading but I'm practicing.

curious.

what posts from rathe like pinged you as scummy as scum lurking vs just null not posting enough yet?

also this post could be interesting

Spoiler:

Wasting a lim on N_M is anti-town since we have bigger fish to fry right now. You seem to be so eager to do it when there are scummier people being voted. Kinda sus NGL.

NO, you read my post wrong. WE SHOULD HAVE elim NM, past tense.
That was my WHOLE point. It is too late now, town are lumbered with NM for the rest of the game.
What are your reads Kitty?

Right.

SOLIDLY TOWN
Me (duh)
UNOwen - for reasons explained above
DkKoba - just kinda a tonal read?

KINDA TOWN
flow - seems to play in a similar way as Newbie 2055 which recently finished and they were town in that game
Rathe - another tonal read, aggressive which is usually a town thing right?

NEUTRAL
eso - just don't know, he is hard to read.
NM - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjuHgYCxoKY

PROBABLY SCUM
Elsa - seems... very odd to me. Hard to explain
Norwe - the late Arte already explained my reasons
moz - just generally slippery

I'm more inclined to VOTE: Norwe of those three.

and this one right after

Spoiler:

Shit, forgot Anya. She is neutral to me.

looking at that list, if kitty is mafia it's probably one mafia high but not too high, one mafia low but not too low

ok they claimed roleblocker.... hellooo are you guys awake

Spoiler:

Norwe - the late Arte already explained my reasons

You agree with Arte's meta explanation for Norwegian scum?

Actually a pretty good point.
How can you "agree" to a meta scum read?
(And how would Kitty even know if Artemisia’s meta read is accurate, and much more importantly. Who they even are?

I swear there were non-meta things here.

Anyways suspicion is circling me, time to claim as this is just a repeat of Newbie 2055 otherwise.

I am a Town 2-Shot Roleblocker. I did not block anyone last night as I wanted to save shots. I crumbed it here:

I feel we could forgive NM, TBH. A bit of trolling is fine in a game as long as it's not overdone. Mafia is meant to be fun after all.

Rather than hanging people for joking... Better to carry on with the game.

The first letters of each word spell out IAMRB -> I AM RB ->

I

A

m

R

ole

B

locker.

so what if they crumbed it, the issue isn't whether they are a roleblocker but their alignment lol

also look at the posts after that, they are entirely doctor-minded


yeah...

Spoiler:

VOTE: UNOwen

I like Kitty's claim timing; it looks like an overcompensation of their last town game

simple/complex is usually part of mafia roles, either way I don't think anya/elsa should both be left alive, as 1 mafia is likely in there

Spoiler:

sooooo i'm a complex motion detector

is it weird for town to have 2 of these?

side thought: if not_mafia is mafia, and I don't think he is, that probably means dkkoba is mafia

simple and complex both power role hunt to the same degree

Spoiler:

Why would town have a role that's purely for PR hunting? It's a straight-up scum role and I look forward to hammering Cycling

Spoiler: I'm spoilering this and breaking the vote tags cause I changed my mind after looking at all the claims, but still think there could be something there

I was gonna vote kitty but ya at least one of anya or elsa should die before lylo; I'll vote for either of them
VOTE: elsa jayVOTE:

I actually had anya written here then read this post

Spoiler:

I keep getting distracted and went to sleep. Bah.

Okay to remind myself of the 10.

NotMaf- the reliable extra vote. When I figure out who cycling is and why he wants them gone I'll get more outta him besides Nullscum.

Flow- has berated my comedy routine but also feels like the leader in most discussions. Don't think he's going to be new but also become a town leader as scum. So town most likely.

Moz- Uh. I trusted him because he was a bunny before and agreed with me killing Jim but now he's... Weirder. Scumlean.

Koba- My ultimate detractor. A scumread to me because they're a big hurdle for me and I got other townreads but frankly I don't want them gone today.

Anya- My not as intelligent but equally beautiful twin. Trust them completely now since they spoke up about a piece of my role I kept secret for a reason. Might need to guide her actions for her.

Rathe- Didn't hammer me so that's something. But he's still just uh... Not as loud as the others. Null.

Eso- Also did agree with me earlier about the hammer but unlike Moz was reasonable about denying a connection to me. Still null but probably more town then scum rn.

Owen- I clear him because I do think the other 2 Mafia have roles useful to not be used in killing day 1 so they make the goon do it instead. Hence no movement from Owen = not goon. So safe.

Norway- Keep forgetting he's here? Still didn't like his wishy washy response to him agreeing to a Jim hammer but also disagreeing and the same time. Scumlean.

Kitty- Honestly even before the claim I townread him so even if I disagree with him claiming he's town. Also his role supports there being multiple scum actions at night.

that's essentially thinking everyone is town, which is not a town mindset

also elsa fits the "low but not too low" on kitty's list; the thing going against them being mafia is that they reached l-1 at all and that kitty was one of the people voting them

also the kitty forgetting anya thing could have been a mafia oversight since they already know anya's alignment

the claims for posterity/my own reference:

Spoiler:

Rathe was killed, Rathe was a Vanilla Townie

I checked up all claims last night and this is what we got so far.

Alive/Not confirmed

esotericzoomer -

No claim

Not_Mafia -

No claim

UNOwen

No claim

flow trap -

No claim

KittyTacky -

2-Shot Roleblocker

Anya -

Complex Motion Detector

Elsa Jay -

Simple Motion Detector

NorwegianboyEE -

1-Shot Bodyguard

DkKoba -

Claims to be PR

Dead/Fully confirmed roles

Jim Hawkins -

Vanilla Town

Rathe -

Vanilla Town

(Did not claim anything yesterday)
Artemiana -

Town 3-Shot Disloyal Checker

Mozamis -

Town Personal Tracker

I feel like mass claim could be wise at this point. It's also interesting Rathe was the kill decision here, considering all of the PR claims.
First of all, i'm curious what Dkkoba's reason for asking slots to target them yesterday is.

this is mafia, also norwegian's claim does fit but it also fits as a mafia role to use in conjunction with complex or simple motion detector; I suspect since mafia don't have multitasking it'd be something like "you have rolecop until one of you dies"
all targeting roles fall into that category

Spoiler:

1. Norwee - I don't think the claim makes sense with the setup and it's possible moz found something there
NM - I could see NM acting more helpful than normal to not get shot as a mafia life is greater than a town life
Owen - If I remember correctly, they also pulled the take the TR and roll with it

these last pages are really a pain to read

did I read the thread with a bias?


I'm gonna double post for the last thing I wanna say cause no one is going to read this

[samantha97]

i detected movement around VOTE: Norwegian

no one claimed to have targeted norwegian right? just wanna make sure I didn't miss anything

[samantha97]

why am I mafia samantha?

I never said you were

[samantha97]

also please answer this

instinct

[samantha97]

if this flips town then idfk and we prob lose because idk who third is here - dont vote daystart tomorrow if thats the case thats how you lose games kthx

my current guess on a team is norwee/samantha(eso slot)/elsa

if any of those flip town then go anya

why vote outside of the dual roles that would benefit mafia and almost definitely exist to ferret out the checker (in conjunction with some other role, like visitor or bodyguard)

[samantha97]

I think visitor is more likely the mafia role but let's see

VOTE: norwegianboy

[samantha97]

N_M out of a job.

I almost changed my avatar to a pokemon earlier and I still might

[samantha97]

dkkoba there was almost an hour between my question and my vote

I already said I'm not gonna fight for what I think is right

own your read

[samantha97]

lalala~
VOTE: elsa jay

[samantha97]

that conclusion is hmmmmm

I said it was elsa/anya + flowtrap/norwegian

the idea is you use one of the trash targeting roles (flowtrap/norwegian) and the simple/complex (elsa/anya) to find the checker who is basically a cop

I just thought it was more likely flowtrap, and also thought it made more sense to resolve elsa/anya first

[samantha97]

elsa was l-1 and norwegian didn't hammer

elsa was also absent for norwegians wagon

also it makes sense setup-wise for elsa or anya to be mafia as said above

[samantha97]

Samantha gave me "no result". I clarify this again, that's not "No movement detected". That means my action failed on them.

So literally the only 2 options there are they lied about being VT or Kitty finally decided to roleblock me.

I don't know enough to know that those are the only 2 options, but if they are then cool we solved the game even if you're town

that'd mean it's anya/kitty as the last 2

[samantha97]

Samantha - can you explain how you reached Norwegianboy town here?

no I read 13 pages only when I said that

and

I think norwee spewed this slot as scum.
Look at how much norwee shades nm and only puts forth a half push once its clear that town is surrounding them.

Scumteam Samantha/Kitty/N_M?

all lists by mafia contain 1 mafia so I wouldn't be heartbroken by going there, but I'd be surprised if not_mafia was mafia - especially since elsa just said kitty roleblocked him

also

I am not sure between samantha/elsa/flow trap

just like yesterday you gotta just believe in the heart of the cards

[samantha97]

So either Sam is full of crap, or you are full of crap.

I want you to explain to me how town comes to the conclusion that, between vanilla and someone who mechanically has a baseline 50% chance of being mafia, it's vanilla

especially after seeing norwegian and elsa's vote history

[samantha97]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Well if it's Samantha or Elsa then it's probably NM, correct?

[samantha97]

Vanilla is an easy claim and your slot's history is also not exactly spotless. You guys have about the same chance of being mafia, at least in my eyes.

have your eyes read the thread cause our probability is totally different

so much so that the idea that it's between the 2 of us is veering on gaslighting

[samantha97]

I really don't see Elsa & Norwee being partners though

Elsa did step it up after claiming

by stepping it up do you mean owning up to being simple after anya said complex? there was basically 0 thread presence besides a 1 vs 1 with dkkoba that I barely remember

Anya CC’ed.
VOTE: Elsa Jay

Wait, didn’t Elsa crumb an PR role earlier?
Anya played really aggressively this game, and not like a PR at all.
Maybe it’s some SvS shit.
VOTE: Anya

votes elsa after elsa already got unvoted by all but not_mafia (refrained from voting while elsa was l-1 before that), then changes it to anya in less than 2 minutes

NorwegianboyEE (5):

Anya, KittyTacky,flow trap, DkKoba, samantha97

DkKoba (1):

Elsa Jay

Anya (1):

Not_Mafia

Not_Mafia (1):

NorwegianboyEE

Not Voting (1):

UNOwen

there is also no universe in which there are 3 mafia alive who are all steamrolling you where 2 of them were on that wagon; either none are on it or they'd be near the beginning of the wagon and stuck on it (thx for getting rid of unowen lol)

[samantha97]

there was a vested interest in keeping norwee alive - which makes me believe that the remaining scum is vanilla.

what does that mean

[samantha97]

god now i know why unown died.. he was sheeping me too easily and being helpful..

I get feeling like this is your final stand but the longer the day goes on the easier it is to miss the forest for the trees

there's no logical reason to vote outside of elsa or anya today, as 1 of them is 100% confirmed mafia, and if you put it off it can get to a lylo situation (especially if both of us aren't there)

people can talk about interactions all day but mechanics and actions don't lie - norwegian wanted elsa alive for a reason (maybe one as simple as not wanting the heat from a hammer)

but elsa in turn didn't want norwegian dead yesterday, and if anya is mafia well we know that tomorrow from elsa turning up town

[samantha97]

I'm much more inclined to do Sam first, on a second thought. I doubt Elsa would accuse Sam like that if she was scum as that means she is doomed tomorrow = 1 for 1 which is bad for scum.

their result accuses you not me I think?

I don't think vanilla would return that but if it would then they mafiaclaimed anyway

[samantha97]

I know that was the implication of their post but does it actually imply that? like if I wasn't vanilla is that the result they would get, or would it just be no motion?

[samantha97]

it the message doesn't overlap with the message they get when they get roleblocked, then they're 100% lying ez

[samantha97]

if*

[samantha97]

if you guys don't wanna resolve elsa/anya, even after elsa's vote record matches with the flipped mafia, then you deserve to lose tbh

[samantha97]

vote for me then instead of positioning for a hammer

[samantha97]

did you ever say why you didn't vote for norwegian or comment on it

[samantha97]

what did you think about the final vote count in general

[samantha97]

im liking samantha over elsa here reading this conversation

I have a neat gif picked out in case you throw here

you've been playing a long time, do you really think there are 2 town motion detectors with a cop that just roams free? that'd mean there's an unclaimed/fakeclaim covered mafia role that can discover the cop(checker)

but we already know from the voyeur flip that mafia had a mild-powered targeting role, which meshes with the simple/complex motion detectors

[samantha97]

How? If Elsa is red she gets flipped tomorrow. It's not a good strat.

buying a day is always a good strategy? they were on the chopping block to begin with, and plausible deniability can buy someone more than one day if they're lucky

your argument is essentially "why would mafia lie?" lol

I'mma pose the same question to you kitty:
do you really think there are 2 town motion detectors with a cop that just roams free? that'd mean there's an unclaimed/fakeclaim covered mafia role that can discover the cop(checker)

but we already know from the voyeur flip that mafia had a mild-powered targeting role, which meshes with the simple/complex motion detectors

[samantha97]

the gating is what makes them more useful for mafia...?

[samantha97]

rereading what I wrote made me realize that if simple/complex get no result on incompatible role targets by default, then voyeur wouldn't synergize with them... right?

that's really weird cause what is the point of all the targeting roles in this setup then

[samantha97]

im home. I wanna reveal that there is an optimal elimination we are not talking about - that if we flip Kitty here - it solves a lot with the game.

tell if im crazy or no

I see that as having 2 branches to a claim and deciding to chop off 1 branch instead of going for the tree itself

[samantha97]

at the same time, those roles are prime roleblocking targets & I'm probably right about the mafia lists = 1 mafia in them thing (me/kitty/notmafia would mean kitty vs not_mafia, and I think kitty is more likely)

plus if you're a town x-shot anything why do you out that to mafia

[samantha97]

If Kitty flips town that means scum don't have a roleblocker of their own and it's Samantha no matter what

no, that ignores the possibility of both mafia and town roleblockers coexisting

[samantha97]

Is that a thing that happens often in Normals? Seems unlikely too me. Atleast with the current setup speculating.

I have no clue at all how likely it is but I assume that it's not likely too

[samantha97]

Well since I am confirmed town to myself I think we should go after Sam.

Plus I have been pushing a scum (Norwe) since day 1...

btw your mindset should be wanting to go after elsa

just a tip, I know it can be hard to fake a town mindset

[samantha97]

at the moment it seems possible you're trying to keep elsa alive to protect anya

instead of being suspicious of elsa for being left alive at e-1 by someone you say you were pushing as mafia all game, then didn't vote for norwegian himself, who then also accused you of roleblocking him... you have your eyes set on a vanilla?


trying to find the town mindset here

[samantha97]

Also you defended Norwe pretty hard didn't you?

no? the only thing I ever said about him being town was on my entry after reading the first 13 pages lol

I said it was 1 of anya/elsa and 1 of flowtrap/norwegian, I just thought it made sense to resolve elsa/anya before the 2 trash targeting roles

[samantha97]

anyway if you really thought I was lying about being vanilla, you would be suggesting to leash anya (and elsa if still alive) to me tonight

[samantha97]

Bullshit. Anya has very little connection to you. In fact she helped accuse you with her result on me.

??????????
both anya and elsa can confirm my role with equal ability, and it's unlikely both are mafia

they're both vanilla cops in practice

[samantha97]

VOTE: kittytacky

if we kill kitty and leash anya and elsa to me, mafia are forced to either kill me or one of anya/elsa for us

cause even if elsa or anya is mafia, the other's result will contradict even a fake claim of being roleblocked

[samantha97]

I'm gonna say one last thing and then afk other than vote for whatever the majority is cause it's pointless to repeat myself over and over:

I'm vanilla

we have 2 vanilla cops

voting vanilla never made less sense in any game that ever existed

then you have elsa and norwegian's votes incriminating elsa

and the fact that there is no flipped way for mafia to discover the checker

and the fact that both elsa and anya's roles can identify power roles

and the fact that both elsa and anya have the same role

and you're trying to partner me with people I both put in a lynch pool yesterday and actually hammered (anya/elsa/flowtrap/norwegian)

and you end up with town that deserves to lose if they ignore all that

[samantha97]

btw if you do decide to throw both elsa and anya should be on dkkoba tonight

[samantha97]

since I'm going to bed I'll just say what I would say if I was here and got lynched actually:

kittytacky didn't have to act on elsa for elsa to fake a roleblock; he won't be cleared town

also was there ever anyone confirming that they were roleblocked at all? I don't remember that

dkkoba ignoring the obvious and surviving last night is extremely suspicious

and make good use of the twilight time you're probably gonna get a lot of; don't let lurkers coast and not give you information for tomorrow

[samantha97]

maybe samantha's just vanilla wolf

it does feel like I'm part of the informed minority

[samantha97]

I would kill flowtrap too

[samantha97]

I don't know if I should be pleased or creeper out you agreed with me Sam. What's your reasoning?

maximum obfuscation/prevents poe from shrinking

dkkoba surviving 2 days = ++ mafia
elsa/anya unresolved, plus they are both tied up with kitty as well
not_mafia is not_mafia

basically town gets the least out of flowtrap dying

[samantha97]

let's brutally execute Samantha already instead of giving wolves a map for the perfect kill

you can't because unlike all of you I'm town sry

[samantha97]

No matter the flip, my top scumreads are {Sam, Elsa}, in fact both might be scum bussing. NM is neutral. Everyone else I can comfortably call town.

what does the game look like to you if I were to be modconfirmed town right now

[samantha97]

actually it'd be neat if everyone answered that question

[samantha97]

In that case, I'd push Elsa since she is obviously lying in that case, assuming you aren't gamethrowing.

that's really narrow though

who is the other mafia in that scenario

[samantha97]

I also have adhd and feel this - but youre so absent and have not done much post norwee flip. When that should be a stimulus in of itself

either I only just now noticed that your avatar is animated or this is the mandela effect

[samantha97]

It appears I missed nothing

what does the game look like to you if I were to be modconfirmed town right now

[samantha97]

VOTE: elsa jay

[samantha97]

gj

[samantha97]

nah hectic is like, actually crazy good and like i said, a tier above at least skill wise.

also ydrasse was nommed and i'd argue she's better than me where it counts

aw humility award where