Mini Normal 2213 - Village (End Game)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

sup nerds and Gamma. I'm back

VOTE: Gamma

That pizza looks so good...

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

Why you voting Max my guy? Why the switch so soon?

JohnnyFarrar - horrible track record of reading. always seems scummy to everyone.

Ftfy

Can confirm.
Got scum read last game because I was the only one not pushing a SR on Johnny

(we were both town)

Speaking of which, don't worry Johnny, I am starting with a hard SR on you this time. I learned my lesson

So where's the vote?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But it's got the snap and the crackle

But no pop

Nora just said that. What do you think of Italiano, and the Johnny-Luke interaction?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: VFP
I noticed a lot of votes heading this person’s way, but not many stuck. Could be signs of textbook early scum distancing.

Also I know it's already been said but I disagree on this being distancing. Seems to me to be RVS, though I did notice the same thing, that the votes came in somewhat quickly. I don't like any of the voters for VFP...

Come vote one of them with me. Noraa come too, if Dunn will sort out he'll sort out.

VOTE: Italiano
I think you're scum, buddy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also want the pagetop.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why you voting Max my guy?

Because they had not posted yet

Why the switch so soon?

Because VFP is a Day 13 IC

So where's the vote?

Want my vote on someone who has not talked yet. Figured there will be plenty of time to vote for Johnny in the future

There's been plenty enough talk already to pick a vote outside RVS imo. Just not seeing why you're not on Johnny, not that Max's entrance wasn't scummy, but that entrance came after your vote. Your first vote was for someone who had already talked...

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also I know it's already been said but I disagree on this being distancing. Seems to me to be RVS, though I did notice the same thing, that the votes came in somewhat quickly. I don't like any of the voters for VFP...

That what happens in RVS. Votes come in, wagons form; most time quickly. What else do you think is gonna happen? You already have a solid enough read for VFP to “not like” his voters? That’s sus bruh.

I didn't say I had any type of read on VFP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

gamma's directly talking to me a lot tho and sometimes he doesn't. but also he seems super chill this game and kinda carefree. I think that level of relaxation probably means he's just town?
I always find it scummy bc it feels like I'm being pocketed but maybe that's just the vibes that gamma gives off?
Yeah ok fuck that SR. Gammas now my top TR.

Not saying you're wrong on Gamma town but as I recall he's always been chill. I

think

I've played with him as both alignments.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mon is kookiemonster's other half

I also don't know who mon is and that doesn't help... what's his name?

pedit: looks like Johnny, right?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mon is kookiemonster's other half

I also don't know who mon is and that doesn't help... what's his name?

pedit: looks like Johnny, right?

if you clicked on the link and went to the user profile and then clicked on the links in the signature, you'd know.

I only read the names in the sig and saw they didn't align with the player list, did not click the sig names

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't think VCA is reliable for me. Sometimes I vote like twice in a whole large theme and sometimes I vote every two minutes. Theres ... no consistency.
But Ita, I do think you're town so I'll try to save you. Lemme first figure out why your wagons piling up lol.

Why do you think ITA is town. Just a feel?
UNVOTE:

Don't forget:

But it's got the snap and the crackle

But no pop

Nora just said that. What do you think of Italiano, and the Johnny-Luke interaction?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think at this point we need some activity from Dunnstral, xLotus, MaxTheFox, and Andre (I know he is resting today). UC Voyager as well tbh. Too many inactives right now so I'm trying to slow down a bit until they chime in. I've also yet to notice anything substantive by VFP despite the recent activity.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just did a reread and I have something to discuss here. I have something for Johnny as well but I'm going to separate the posts for context.

I didn't say I had any type of read on VFP

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

As I reread this post it stuck out to me because I feel like it should be apparent to Ita why the VFP wagon was of interest to me, specifically because of the comments he later makes regarding VCA. I remember thinking when he first posted about VCA that I also play that way in later Days and because of that playstyle I've grown more attentive of early voting patterns and wagons in general. I feel like Ita, as a player who touts VCA, should not have been surprised that I "singled out" the VFP wagon.

Quotes where he mentions VCA:

Spoiler:

And yeah you are the townsiest townie that ever was in a town Noraa!

Remember a while back I said I could read you. I still think I can. It doesn’t really show up in your play. I think if you’re scum it’ll show up in your voting patterns. And I do vca so...

Wtf, who votes a day 13 IC?
All we have to do is no lim every day, hope something assists in stopping kills and I'm actually confirmed as town or scum by that point.

I don't think VCA is reliable for me. Sometimes I vote like twice in a whole large theme and sometimes I vote every two minutes. Theres ... no consistency.
But Ita, I do think you're town so I'll try to save you. Lemme first figure out why your wagons piling up lol.

VCA is reliable for everybody, lol.

I don’t ever really know why I’m scumread but I always am. I just assume it’s because I say or do things that’s easy for scum to latch onto. But if we do decide to wagon ssbm I’ll vote there. I still don’t like the fact of the singling out of the VFP wagon, even though he explained it.

I think the main thing I wanna address here is the part about directly talking to Noraa
what I see as the core cause of that is that Noraa simply has the most posts so far, by a sizable margin. So it's easiest to interact with her.

Do not like this post.

VOTE: Gamma

Can you articulate why? I can see a potential logic to this comment, I wonder if I'm right about it.

I feel like you approached it defensively, when Noraa was not scum reading you for it, and I when I read through, I did not think twice about it. But for you it was "the main thing you wanna address here"

Felt like you were primed to defend yourself

So reading this, I disagree with Luke's conclusion, though I do see potential for a townie thought process behind the post...

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

yeah I thought like this too, it's why I voted VFP

As a person who moved on then off of the VFP RVS vote, I just thought it would be funnier to play into his joke.

Spoiler:

Should I claim?

Should I claim?

Maybe not quite yet, but things do appear to be moving in that direction

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

This message in particular made me chuckle as I typed it

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

... but then I read this. It strikes me as either a direct defense of Italiano, or possibly an indirect defense of VFP. I think it's too early, and Luke's reads are too weak to justify this type of play if he is town.

I am feeling a little better about Kyouko's play rn, recent postings by him show a decent level of thought

I still think they're scum

Noraa should we start a wagon on them then?

Here we have Luke looking to start a wagon on me, but not actually voting me. He appeals to Noraa for permission to start the wagon. While I do townlean on Noraa, I'm abysmal at reading players like her (Creature comes to mind), so I don't trust myself to read her accurately. All that being said, I do think Noraa is the most universally TRed player in this game so far and if !scum Luke or !scum Italiano could convince her to start the wagon, I do think they might avoid suspicion after my flip.

Italiano has

also

appealed to Noraa to wagon me in a reply that is seemingly directed at Noraa, but does not explicitly appeal to her. See below:

Wtf, who votes a day 13 IC?
All we have to do is no lim every day, hope something assists in stopping kills and I'm actually confirmed as town or scum by that point.

I don't think VCA is reliable for me. Sometimes I vote like twice in a whole large theme and sometimes I vote every two minutes. Theres ... no consistency.
But Ita, I do think you're town so I'll try to save you. Lemme first figure out why your wagons piling up lol.

VCA is reliable for everybody, lol.

I don’t ever really know why I’m scumread but I always am. I just assume it’s because I say or do things that’s easy for scum to latch onto. But if we do decide to wagon ssbm I’ll vote there. I still don’t like the fact of the singling out of the VFP wagon, even though he explained it.

Tbh I find it hard to believe they're both scum brazenly defending like this (feels too easy), but there is some shit going on here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

A good portion of this quote is snipped because I wanted to address these two quote-replies in particular:

But it's got the snap and the crackle

But no pop

I can't fathom why you would restate the joke? Did you just not read the context of my post?

VOTE: UC

I think that the one with the underscore is scum. ss__ that one
um because their posts on page 73 has a weird interaction w/ UC. Post 73 feels super extra.

I find myself nodding with this post

Johnny, if you go back to 73, you'll see that I'm essentially making the same comment toward UCV that you made in the top part of your snipped quote: "Someone already said that.

Now say something useful

." I'm wondering what makes you feel agreement with Noraa here?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

As I reread this post it stuck out to me because I feel like it should be apparent to Ita why the VFP wagon was of interest to me, specifically because of the comments he later makes regarding VCA. I remember thinking when he first posted about VCA that I also play that way in later Days and because of that playstyle

I've grown more attentive of early voting patterns and wagons in general.

I feel like Ita, as a player who touts VCA, should not have been surprised that I "singled out" the VFP wagon.

RVS wagons make sense once there are flips. I do look at early wagons and voting patterns, but there is always context. There were four wagons at 2 votes and no one wagon ever reached 3 votes. Both you and Gamma have wrong information.

VCA is pointless unless/until you have flips. I never use VCA before a flip so why are you saying that like that’s how this works.

I’m suspicious of how you are framing this VFP wagon and then when I point out that it wasn’t the way you are framing it, you double down?

Then I ask what you thought about VFP to be going after his voters and in 105 you stated you you didn’t have any type of read on him. And I understand you don’t need to have a read on a slot to go after the voters, but in this context it’s fishy. You’d have more to stand on if the wagon got to L2 or L1.

Luke voted and then unvoted VFP before the other 2 votes on VFP, so at that point, there

had been

three players that had voted for VFP, even though not all of those players were still voting them. That is what I, and I think Gamma, have been saying.

I'm not saying you should be doing VCA pre-flip. I'm saying that I, as a player who likes to use VCA, have resultantly become more attentive to RVS voting. I believe that you, also as a player who uses VCA, should have developed a similar sense.

What do you mean by framing the VFP wagon, and in what way am I framing it? I also don't think you asked me

what

I thought of VFP. You asked me

if

I had a solid read on him. I think the reaction you're having to a couple of votes is giving me the ground to stand on.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler:

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

yeah I thought like this too, it's why I voted VFP

As a person who moved on then off of the VFP RVS vote, I just thought it would be funnier to play into his joke.

[spooler=]

Should I claim?

Should I claim?

Maybe not quite yet, but things do appear to be moving in that direction

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

[/spooler]

This message in particular made me chuckle as I typed it

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

... but then I read this. It strikes me as either a direct defense of Italiano, or possibly an indirect defense of VFP. I think it's too early, and Luke's reads are too weak to justify this type of play if he is town.

Not sure where you got that it was a defense of either Italiano or VFP?

You said that something

I had done

had piqued your interest
"VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me... When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest"

It me. I did that.

So I dropped my own reason for doing it.

I know you're the one that did it, and I and I believe the rest of the thread understood why you did it. What I did not understand was the town motivation for a post explaining it off as a joke. It happened early on during RVS, and offering an unprompted explanation indicates that you felt a need to defend the action. This is what makes me think it is a "defense." It seems more likely to be for Italiano because you are defending the action that brought my attention to the reason I originally voted for Italiano. I saw the possibility it could be in defense of VFP because it could make his wagon seem like less of a big deal when you explain that a former vote for him was a joke.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know you're the one that did it, and I and I believe the rest of the thread understood why you did it. What I did not understand was the town motivation for a post explaining it off as a joke.

It is also hard to take this post as genuine, when Kyouko is a person who literally questioned me directly over it

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

Why you voting Max my guy? Why the switch so soon?

JohnnyFarrar - horrible track record of reading. always seems scummy to everyone.

Ftfy

Can confirm.
Got scum read last game because I was the only one not pushing a SR on Johnny

(we were both town)

Speaking of which, don't worry Johnny, I am starting with a hard SR on you this time. I learned my lesson

So where's the vote?

So which is it? Was it so obviously a joke vote, that it is scummy for me to explain it? Or was it something that you thought you should question me over?

Kind of hard to believe both imo

The intent of the second question was a followup to the first. I was wondering why you decided to vote for Max who at the time had not posted at all. It was obvious that the unvote was a joke reacting to the joke claim by VFP. You answered my question about Max iirc, and I don't think you attempted to engage her afterward either even though you stated the reason for your voting her was because she had not talked yet (83).

I was questioning you about the Max vote, because it seemed strange to me to pick her out. The first vote in RVS I'll generally let slide without much thought initially (obviously there are exceptions depending on how late someone arrives), but once someone starts moving their vote around there is almost always a reason, and I wanted to know what your reasoning was to begin sorting you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I just find it hard to believe that you could personally have commented on my vote swapping multiple times (and witnessed many more people comment on it)

Spoiler:

Why the switch so soon?

Seems to me to be RVS, though I did notice the same thing, that the votes came in somewhat quickly. I don't like any of the voters for VFP...

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

These are the times you personally commented on it, you were also talking to multiple other people who also commented on it

And then genuinely think this:

I know you're the one that did it, and I and I believe the rest of the thread understood why you did it. What I did not understand was the town motivation for a post explaining it off as a joke. It happened early on during RVS, and offering an unprompted explanation indicates that you felt a need to defend the action.

You are trying to have it both ways. You question it. You say you don't like it. You say it stood out to you. You say that it piques your interest.

But also, you want to claim that explaining it makes no sense because it was obvious to the entire thread why it happened.

You are trying to have it both ways. You question it. You say you don't like it. You say it stood out to you. You say that it piques your interest.

But also, you want to claim that explaining it makes no sense because it was obvious to the entire thread why it happened.

And so I think that one of those stances is not genuine

Spoiler:

Or both!

As I already told you, and you ignored, I was questioning you on the Max vote, not on the switch. I understand the second question in my original post said "why the switch," but it was intended to be following my question about why you chose to vote Max. I would think that if you had genuine concern about my alignment you would at least be reading my posts.

I still reason that the explanation you gave did not have town motivation.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Nor generating a lot of content is a town feel for me.
I got a town read for save. I'm not quite sure exactly.
I really can't make reads on people who haven't posted much.
I got a weird feel about ITA and Gamma that I might read into.

huh how'd I miss this post. I hate it on so many levels. anyone feel similar feelings?

I don't

hate

it but I don't like it. I'm still waiting for the full catchup and for some substantive comment from them and a few others.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What I said

You are trying to have it both ways. You question it. You say you don't like it. You say it stood out to you. You say that it piques your interest.

But also, you want to claim that explaining it makes no sense because it was obvious to the entire thread why it happened.

What you responded to

You are trying to have it both ways. You question it-

Because I am pretty sure you said all of the other things too

I don't like any of the voters for VFP...

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me.

When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

I'm not saying I didn't say any of those things... I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Anyone else get the feeling this last round of postings from italiano are different somehow? Tone feels completely changed, like he's received coaching. Just woke up and read through it on my phone.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Anyone else get the feeling this last round of postings from italiano are different somehow? Tone feels completely changed, like he's received coaching. Just woke up and read through it on my phone.

It does seem different tonally, but why is it indicative of coaching?

I feel like a person posts how they post and if that changes it can be an indicator that the words are being put in their mouth. It also feels like he was waiting for someone else to vote me first, which I dont think has anything to do with the coaching, but also seems scummy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Is there a reason this game has devolved into voting for only low content slots? Does that mean we think everybody who is talking is town?

I think there's a good chance at least 1 scum is amongst the low content slots. I don't feel good about how lackadaisically the votes are drifting amongst them though. It's like Gamma, Johnny, and Noraa are all wanting to cast votes to pressure lurkers but they keep switching around seemingly before anything is accomplished.

What about you Dunn, the way you phrased that last question indicates to me you think that someone who is talking is not town. Am I right? Care to share your thoughts?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Is there a reason this game has devolved into voting for only low content slots? Does that mean we think everybody who is talking is town?

I think there's a good chance at least 1 scum is amongst the low content slots. I don't feel good about how lackadaisically the votes are drifting amongst them though. It's like Gamma, Johnny, and Noraa are all wanting to cast votes to pressure lurkers but they keep switching around seemingly before anything is accomplished.

What about you Dunn, the way you phrased that last question indicates to me you think that someone who is talking is not town. Am I right? Care to share your thoughts?

This seems so weird and task oriented? Are you voting scum right now? Tell me about them?

I think I am, yeah. Nobody else seems to think so though, or if they do agree even somewhat, dont seem interested in voting him.

I think this is the second time people ITT have been weirded out that I asked a player a direct question. It happened before when I asked UCV about Italiano and Luke. Was you both times I'm pretty sure. What bothers you about that exactly?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^You can read my ISO to see about Italiano, pretty sure he is the subject of the majority of my posts.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Anyone else get the feeling this last round of postings from italiano are different somehow? Tone feels completely changed, like he's received coaching. Just woke up and read through it on my phone.

It does seem different tonally, but why is it indicative of coaching?

But it's got the snap and the crackle

But no pop

Nora just said that. What do you think of Italiano, and the Johnny-Luke interaction?

Is there a reason this game has devolved into voting for only low content slots? Does that mean we think everybody who is talking is town?

I think there's a good chance at least 1 scum is amongst the low content slots. I don't feel good about how lackadaisically the votes are drifting amongst them though. It's like Gamma, Johnny, and Noraa are all wanting to cast votes to pressure lurkers but they keep switching around seemingly before anything is accomplished.

What about you Dunn, the way you phrased that last question indicates to me you think that someone who is talking is not town. Am I right? Care to share your thoughts?

This seems so weird and task oriented? Are you voting scum right now? Tell me about them?

I think I am, yeah. Nobody else seems to think so though, or if they do agree even somewhat, dont seem interested in voting him.

I think this is the second time people ITT have been weirded out that I asked a player a direct question. It happened before when I asked UCV about Italiano and Luke. Was you both times I'm pretty sure. What bothers you about that exactly?

Not saying you didn't, just don't remember this. Can't seem to find it rn. I'm on phone.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^Not sure why post 300 got Q+ed there, I think I went to reply on PC earlier and replied from my phone instead.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Johnny

Is there a reason this game has devolved into voting for only low content slots? Does that mean we think everybody who is talking is town?

I think there's a good chance at least 1 scum is amongst the low content slots. I don't feel good about how lackadaisically the votes are drifting amongst them though. It's like Gamma, Johnny, and Noraa are all wanting to cast votes to pressure lurkers but they keep switching around seemingly before anything is accomplished.

What about you Dunn, the way you phrased that last question indicates to me you think that someone who is talking is not town. Am I right? Care to share your thoughts?

This seems so weird and task oriented? Are you voting scum right now? Tell me about them?

I think I am, yeah. Nobody else seems to think so though, or if they do agree even somewhat, dont seem interested in voting him.

I think this is the second time people ITT have been weirded out that I asked a player a direct question. It happened before when I asked UCV about Italiano and Luke. Was you both times I'm pretty sure.

What bothers you about that exactly?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't feel good about how lackadaisically the votes are drifting amongst them though. It's like Gamma, Johnny, and Noraa are all wanting to cast votes to pressure lurkers but they keep switching around seemingly before anything is accomplished.

Like you seem to be treating votes like there's some manual on how to use them somewhere and we're going off manual.

Like I'm not out here like "Let's vote the lurkers" and then hopping from one to the other, and I don't think the other two are either. you're treating the three of us like machine parts that haven't fallen in line and not like individual thinkers.

Especially not individual thinkers you're trying to sort.

Does that make sense? It's late and it's hard to put feelings into words

I get what you mean. I'm a logical thinker, so the way you are describing how I view votes is close to how I think about them. It's not so much that there is a manual but that I expect there to be a reason or a motivation that supports/drives the action of voting. I try to figure out what that reasoning is and decide whether town!player or scum!player would have that motivation.

So I see players saying things along the lines of "let's vote this player because they're inactive or not producing enough content" and it seems to me that the towny motivation for that vote is to get the target of the vote involved. But then the votes move to other players "before anything is accomplished," so it makes me wonder, was I wrong about the motivation? If I was wrong, was the actual motivation scummy?

I do understand what you're saying though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What I meant by my question though was, what was it that bothered you about my direct question to UCV in post 73 and my question to Dunn in 315? Or was I misunderstanding what you meant about 315, since it seems that it was the way I think about votes that bothered you? Even if I was misunderstanding what struck you about 315, I am still curious about 73.

Late here as well, may be heading to bed soon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And hahaha the thought that I would say I can’t get on to play but would have the time to coach someone is nothing short of laughable. I don’t have to lie about my activity to win a game as Scum.

Yeah apparently we’re partners and you coached me to start posting “differently”. I think it’s more of an insult that if I was scum I’d need coaching.

Actual scumtell right here.

In a hypothetical situation where Italy WAS coached, Andres could be that coach. And he's still not in thread. So like.

VOTE: Andres

Not specifically for that, but just. Yknow. In general.

I hate this post on a lot of levels.

Parroting Noraa here, she said the exact same thing earlier (about a different post, it is the verbiage I am referring to).

I think Nor generating a lot of content is a town feel for me.
I got a town read for save. I'm not quite sure exactly.
I really can't make reads on people who haven't posted much.
I got a weird feel about ITA and Gamma that I might read into.

huh how'd I miss this post.

I hate it on so many levels

. anyone feel similar feelings?

I feel like a person posts how they post and if that changes it can be an indicator that the words are being put in their mouth. It also feels like he was waiting for someone else to vote me first, which I dont think has anything to do with the coaching, but also seems scummy

What is your case on me again?

Yeah act like you don't know, so others won't notice.

Is there a reason this game has devolved into voting for only low content slots? Does that mean we think everybody who is talking is town?

I mean why not. Voting doesn’t mean you’re getting eliminated, but it’s proven to get people’s attention.

What was the point of this post? You just walled 4 or 5 posts that essentially say nothing whatsoever, followed by a (not controversial) reads list with no explanation whatsoever. You couldn't be trying harder to

appear

like you're doing something here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

my experience with Dunn in completed games is one, he was town and barely showed up unless you attacked him

So then you’d say that being lucky is nai?

i'd say i don't have enough data

though my other game with dunn just ended and he was a traitor and was less lurky.

From what everyone has been saying about their experience with Dunn, it does seem NAI for him to lurk a bit on Day 1.

Looking back at my 1 completed game with him, he was town, and he had one of the lowest post counts Day 1, but then his content picked up substantially later on in the game

In my experience, as scum he was actually active Day 1. I feel like this game is consistent with his town play, though obviously activity in later Days will determine whether he stays consistent.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Fenrir, have you changed your mind on Italiano? You were voting them earlier toDay. What do you think of my last post? Spoilering for length.

Spoiler:

And hahaha the thought that I would say I can’t get on to play but would have the time to coach someone is nothing short of laughable. I don’t have to lie about my activity to win a game as Scum.

Yeah apparently we’re partners and you coached me to start posting “differently”. I think it’s more of an insult that if I was scum I’d need coaching.

Actual scumtell right here.

In a hypothetical situation where Italy WAS coached, Andres could be that coach. And he's still not in thread. So like.

VOTE: Andres

Not specifically for that, but just. Yknow. In general.

I hate this post on a lot of levels.

Parroting Noraa here, she said the exact same thing earlier (about a different post, it is the verbiage I am referring to).

I think Nor generating a lot of content is a town feel for me.
I got a town read for save. I'm not quite sure exactly.
I really can't make reads on people who haven't posted much.
I got a weird feel about ITA and Gamma that I might read into.

huh how'd I miss this post.

I hate it on so many levels

. anyone feel similar feelings?

I feel like a person posts how they post and if that changes it can be an indicator that the words are being put in their mouth. It also feels like he was waiting for someone else to vote me first, which I dont think has anything to do with the coaching, but also seems scummy

What is your case on me again?

Yeah act like you don't know, so others won't notice.

Is there a reason this game has devolved into voting for only low content slots? Does that mean we think everybody who is talking is town?

I mean why not. Voting doesn’t mean you’re getting eliminated, but it’s proven to get people’s attention.

What was the point of this post? You just walled 4 or 5 posts that essentially say nothing whatsoever, followed by a (not controversial) reads list with no explanation whatsoever. You couldn't be trying harder to

appear

like you're doing something here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Fenrir, have you changed your mind on Italiano? You were voting them earlier toDay. What do you think of my last post? Spoilering for length.

i think i'm null on the slot. i agree with some of what you're saying but disagree with other parts. Like the "we're partners and you coached me" post is scummy, sure, but "What's your case against me" pings me for an entirely different reason and the parroting point makes no sense to me.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. He's copying her verbiage subconsciously because he wants to be TRed by her.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And hahaha the thought that I would say I can’t get on to play but would have the time to coach someone is nothing short of laughable. I don’t have to lie about my activity to win a game as Scum.

Yeah apparently we’re partners and you coached me to start posting “differently”. I think it’s more of an insult that if I was scum I’d need coaching.

Actual scumtell right here.

Can you expand on this?
Wrt the parroting, I think it’s not relevant, unless you show Italy doesn’t use that phrase often.
As for asking for a case, that can be construed as a scum behavior, in the sense that a case can be deconstructed and argued against piece-by-piece. But town can also do that, so I don’t see the value of that point.

Essentially I think your scumread on Italy is rather circumstantial currently. I’m not against it, but I’d like a little more to go on.

Italy has never used that verbiage on site before. If you global search him as the author for the keywords "hate" and "levels" there is only the post from this game.

That's a slip, not a coincidence

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's also not that he's asking for a case, it's that he's feigning ignorance as he does so.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I like what I see from ssbm, it feels like they are making a genuine effort to investigate.

I get the feeling gamma is trying to draw content out of people rather than trying to take advantage of lurker slots.

So, I'm feeling something like this rn

Town lean
IVD
ssbm
Gamma
Nora

Null
Andre
Max
Luke
Save the Dragons
UCV
VFP
Dunn
Johnny

But where is scum?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmmmmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why is IVD town?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you really think I've left my vote on you this entire day phase solely because of RVS?

Pedit:@Italiano

[ssbm_Kyouko]

IVD is such a strange abbreviation O_O

I don't like it

If you don't like it so much why dont you lynch it? ;o

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you SR him this game though?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you SR him this game though?

no not really. I don't tend to SR him normally.

What about my vote on him and my thoughts on him? I dont think you've commented yet.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So you read my conversation with Luke but nothing with Italiano?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmmmmmmm

I was finding you quotes on mobile as my internet is out atm. Will see what I can find via iso on mobile but it's just going to be an unformatted quote dump

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^I say was because as I was doing it, I realized I have a lot of long posts with Luke as well and you reacted to those posts as though you had read them so I'm more than a little sus right now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

420

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hiding the quote dump for Noraa. All the Ita quotes in the middle are the ones he posted right before I indicated it seemed his tone had changed and that he'd been coached. The post in which I indicated that follows his posts.

Spoiler:

Also I know it's already been said but I disagree on this being distancing. Seems to me to be RVS, though I did notice the same thing, that the votes came in somewhat quickly. I don't like any of the voters for VFP...

That what happens in RVS. Votes come in, wagons form; most time quickly. What else do you think is gonna happen? You already have a solid enough read for VFP to “not like” his voters? That’s sus bruh.

I didn't say I had any type of read on VFP

Just did a reread and I have something to discuss here. I have something for Johnny as well but I'm going to separate the posts for context.

I didn't say I had any type of read on VFP

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

As I reread this post it stuck out to me because I feel like it should be apparent to Ita why the VFP wagon was of interest to me, specifically because of the comments he later makes regarding VCA. I remember thinking when he first posted about VCA that I also play that way in later Days and because of that playstyle I've grown more attentive of early voting patterns and wagons in general. I feel like Ita, as a player who touts VCA, should not have been surprised that I "singled out" the VFP wagon.

Quotes where he mentions VCA:

And yeah you are the townsiest townie that ever was in a town Noraa!

Remember a while back I said I could read you. I still think I can. It doesn’t really show up in your play. I think if you’re scum it’ll show up in your voting patterns. And I do vca so...

Wtf, who votes a day 13 IC?
All we have to do is no lim every day, hope something assists in stopping kills and I'm actually confirmed as town or scum by that point.

I don't think VCA is reliable for me. Sometimes I vote like twice in a whole large theme and sometimes I vote every two minutes. Theres ... no consistency.
But Ita, I do think you're town so I'll try to save you. Lemme first figure out why your wagons piling up lol.

VCA is reliable for everybody, lol.

I don’t ever really know why I’m scumread but I always am. I just assume it’s because I say or do things that’s easy for scum to latch onto. But if we do decide to wagon ssbm I’ll vote there. I still don’t like the fact of the singling out of the VFP wagon, even though he explained it.

I think the main thing I wanna address here is the part about directly talking to Noraa
what I see as the core cause of that is that Noraa simply has the most posts so far, by a sizable margin. So it's easiest to interact with her.

Do not like this post.

VOTE: Gamma

Can you articulate why? I can see a potential logic to this comment, I wonder if I'm right about it.

I feel like you approached it defensively, when Noraa was not scum reading you for it, and I when I read through, I did not think twice about it. But for you it was "the main thing you wanna address here"

Felt like you were primed to defend yourself

So reading this, I disagree with Luke's conclusion, though I do see potential for a townie thought process behind the post...

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

yeah I thought like this too, it's why I voted VFP

As a person who moved on then off of the VFP RVS vote, I just thought it would be funnier to play into his joke.

Should I claim?

Should I claim?

Maybe not quite yet, but things do appear to be moving in that direction

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: MaxTheFox

This message in particular made me chuckle as I typed it

I'm a day 13 IC - unlucky for some.

Oh shit.
UNVOTE:

... but then I read this. It strikes me as either a direct defense of Italiano, or possibly an indirect defense of VFP. I think it's too early, and Luke's reads are too weak to justify this type of play if he is town.

I am feeling a little better about Kyouko's play rn, recent postings by him show a decent level of thought

I still think they're scum

Noraa should we start a wagon on them then?

Here we have Luke looking to start a wagon on me, but not actually voting me. He appeals to Noraa for permission to start the wagon. While I do townlean on Noraa, I'm abysmal at reading players like her (Creature comes to mind), so I don't trust myself to read her accurately. All that being said, I do think Noraa is the most universally TRed player in this game so far and if !scum Luke or !scum Italiano could convince her to start the wagon, I do think they might avoid suspicion after my flip.

Italiano has

also

appealed to Noraa to wagon me in a reply that is seemingly directed at Noraa, but does not explicitly appeal to her. See below:

Wtf, who votes a day 13 IC?
All we have to do is no lim every day, hope something assists in stopping kills and I'm actually confirmed as town or scum by that point.

I don't think VCA is reliable for me. Sometimes I vote like twice in a whole large theme and sometimes I vote every two minutes. Theres ... no consistency.
But Ita, I do think you're town so I'll try to save you. Lemme first figure out why your wagons piling up lol.

VCA is reliable for everybody, lol.

I don’t ever really know why I’m scumread but I always am. I just assume it’s because I say or do things that’s easy for scum to latch onto. But if we do decide to wagon ssbm I’ll vote there. I still don’t like the fact of the singling out of the VFP wagon, even though he explained it.

Tbh I find it hard to believe they're both scum brazenly defending like this (feels too easy), but there is some shit going on here.

As I reread this post it stuck out to me because I feel like it should be apparent to Ita why the VFP wagon was of interest to me, specifically because of the comments he later makes regarding VCA. I remember thinking when he first posted about VCA that I also play that way in later Days and because of that playstyle

I've grown more attentive of early voting patterns and wagons in general.

I feel like Ita, as a player who touts VCA, should not have been surprised that I "singled out" the VFP wagon.

RVS wagons make sense once there are flips. I do look at early wagons and voting patterns, but there is always context. There were four wagons at 2 votes and no one wagon ever reached 3 votes. Both you and Gamma have wrong information.

VCA is pointless unless/until you have flips. I never use VCA before a flip so why are you saying that like that’s how this works.

I’m suspicious of how you are framing this VFP wagon and then when I point out that it wasn’t the way you are framing it, you double down?

Then I ask what you thought about VFP to be going after his voters and in 105 you stated you you didn’t have any type of read on him. And I understand you don’t need to have a read on a slot to go after the voters, but in this context it’s fishy. You’d have more to stand on if the wagon got to L2 or L1.

Luke voted and then unvoted VFP before the other 2 votes on VFP, so at that point, there

had been

three players that had voted for VFP, even though not all of those players were still voting them. That is what I, and I think Gamma, have been saying.

I'm not saying you should be doing VCA pre-flip. I'm saying that I, as a player who likes to use VCA, have resultantly become more attentive to RVS voting. I believe that you, also as a player who uses VCA, should have developed a similar sense.

What do you mean by framing the VFP wagon, and in what way am I framing it? I also don't think you asked me

what

I thought of VFP. You asked me

if

I had a solid read on him. I think the reaction you're having to a couple of votes is giving me the ground to stand on.

Luke voted and then unvoted VFP before the other 2 votes on VFP, so at that point, there had been three players that had voted for VFP, even though not all of those players were still voting them. That is what I, and I think Gamma, have been saying.

You do realize Gamma voted for VFP. Both of your synopsis of the wagon is wrong. There was one unvote and then two votes.

I'm not saying you should be doing VCA pre-flip. I'm saying that I, as a player who likes to use VCA, have resultantly become more attentive to RVS voting. I believe that you, also as a player who uses VCA, should have developed a similar sense.

I have and do. RVS voting is something I keep in mind and in my notes so that I can see what’s happening once there are flips. I don’t and can’t resolve it day 1. A push is fine, your push is broken.

What do you mean by framing the VFP wagon, and in what way am I framing it? I also don't think you asked me what I thought of VFP. You asked me if I had a solid read on him. I think the reaction you're having to a couple of votes is giving me the ground to stand on.

Come on, don’t do that. You said there were unvotes (as in plural) and that people voted for VFP and you were framing it as if it was the biggest wagon of the day. If the

unvote

really piqued your interest then your vote is not consistent with that thought. And I really find it suspicious that you haven’t said anything about Gamma? Who also voted for VFP. There are holes in your push and I don’t believe it would be this faulty if you were town.

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

I can see this, something seems off about that last wall

How did you take him not talking to you about your VFP vote? Also you said there were unvotes when there was one and now it’s been established that it was a joke? What were you seeing?

Not on day 1

So is this just your motto? Not to be active on Day 1?

scumStral has a trend of being lurky.

What about town Dunnstral? From what I remember he was pretty lurky as town as well.

@Save the Dragons: what do you think about Dunnstral’s vote on you? Is it common? Uncommon?

Oh I forgot this...

I also don't think you asked me what I thought of VFP. You asked me if I had a solid read on him.

I didn’t. In 93 I said

“You already have a solid enough read for VFP to “not like” his voters? That’s sus bruh.”

It was a tongue in cheek type of comment. I wasn’t actually asking you about your read on him.

Anyone else get the feeling this last round of postings from italiano are different somehow? Tone feels completely changed, like he's received coaching. Just woke up and read through it on my phone.

Anyone else get the feeling this last round of postings from italiano are different somehow? Tone feels completely changed, like he's received coaching. Just woke up and read through it on my phone.

It does seem different tonally, but why is it indicative of coaching?

I feel like a person posts how they post and if that changes it can be an indicator that the words are being put in their mouth. It also feels like he was waiting for someone else to vote me first, which I dont think has anything to do with the coaching, but also seems scummy

And hahaha the thought that I would say I can’t get on to play but would have the time to coach someone is nothing short of laughable. I don’t have to lie about my activity to win a game as Scum.

Yeah apparently we’re partners and you coached me to start posting “differently”. I think it’s more of an insult that if I was scum I’d need coaching.

Actual scumtell right here.

In a hypothetical situation where Italy WAS coached, Andres could be that coach. And he's still not in thread. So like.

VOTE: Andres

Not specifically for that, but just. Yknow. In general.

I hate this post on a lot of levels.

Parroting Noraa here, she said the exact same thing earlier (about a different post, it is the verbiage I am referring to).

I think Nor generating a lot of content is a town feel for me.
I got a town read for save. I'm not quite sure exactly.
I really can't make reads on people who haven't posted much.
I got a weird feel about ITA and Gamma that I might read into.

huh how'd I miss this post.

I hate it on so many levels

. anyone feel similar feelings?

I feel like a person posts how they post and if that changes it can be an indicator that the words are being put in their mouth. It also feels like he was waiting for someone else to vote me first, which I dont think has anything to do with the coaching, but also seems scummy

What is your case on me again?

Yeah act like you don't know, so others won't notice.

Is there a reason this game has devolved into voting for only low content slots? Does that mean we think everybody who is talking is town?

I mean why not. Voting doesn’t mean you’re getting eliminated, but it’s proven to get people’s attention.

What was the point of this post? You just walled 4 or 5 posts that essentially say nothing whatsoever, followed by a (not controversial) reads list with no explanation whatsoever. You couldn't be trying harder to

appear

like you're doing something here.

Fenrir, have you changed your mind on Italiano? You were voting them earlier toDay. What do you think of my last post? Spoilering for length.

i think i'm null on the slot. i agree with some of what you're saying but disagree with other parts. Like the "we're partners and you coached me" post is scummy, sure, but "What's your case against me" pings me for an entirely different reason and the parroting point makes no sense to me.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. He's copying her verbiage subconsciously because he wants to be TRed by her.

And hahaha the thought that I would say I can’t get on to play but would have the time to coach someone is nothing short of laughable. I don’t have to lie about my activity to win a game as Scum.

Yeah apparently we’re partners and you coached me to start posting “differently”. I think it’s more of an insult that if I was scum I’d need coaching.

Actual scumtell right here.

Can you expand on this?
Wrt the parroting, I think it’s not relevant, unless you show Italy doesn’t use that phrase often.
As for asking for a case, that can be construed as a scum behavior, in the sense that a case can be deconstructed and argued against piece-by-piece. But town can also do that, so I don’t see the value of that point.

Essentially I think your scumread on Italy is rather circumstantial currently. I’m not against it, but I’d like a little more to go on.

Italy has never used that verbiage on site before. If you global search him as the author for the keywords "hate" and "levels" there is only the post from this game.

That's a slip, not a coincidence

It's also not that he's asking for a case, it's that he's feigning ignorance as he does so.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Votecount

Dunnstral [3]:

RLotus, Gamma Emerald, Save The Dragons

ssbm_Kyouko [2]:

Lukewarm, ItalianoVD

Gamma Emerald [1]:

VFP

Andresvmb [1]:

JohnnyFarrar

ItalianoVD [1]:

ssbm_Kyouko

Save The Dragons [1]:

Dunnstral

Noraa [1]:

Andresvmb

Andresvmb [1]:

Noraa

Not Voting: UC Voyager, MaxTheFox

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to reach majority.

The day will end in (expired on 2021-05-28 14:03:00) or when majority is reached.

@MOD you listed Andresvmb's wagon twice with different voters

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I like what I see from ssbm, it feels like they are making a genuine effort to investigate.

I get the feeling gamma is trying to draw content out of people rather than trying to take advantage of lurker slots.

So, I'm feeling something like this rn

Town lean
IVD
ssbm
Gamma
Nora

Null
Andre
Max
Luke
Save the Dragons
UCV
VFP
Dunn
Johnny

But where is scum?

If I had the solve I'd let you know

Why is IVD town?

God damn it I was going to vote him first

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^Sorry for Q+, unrelated

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But I will say I was going to vote him for 179 and the mutual TR he has with Italiano that is seemingly unsubstantiated, and for the interaction we had a few hours ago.

Regarding 179, I found it odd that he didn't have a read on me since at that point in the game, I think some of the most substantive comments were between me, Luke, and Italiano. If he had been reading Italiano's posts and sorting him as a townie would, he should have noticed all the replies between me and Italiano and had some opinion on me.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: RLotus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This wagon took off so fast

Cuz Noraa's bussing, just let it happen

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This wagon took off so fast

It turns our you are the town leader this game, congrats

You point a FoS someone, and the whole town follows

That's all you have to say?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oof

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also, if I am right about Kyouko, I think Gamma is his partner.

But the Gamma read is a association based, so I would only push there if Kyouko flips red.

Spoiler:

Willing to vote UC, Kyoko, Ita, Luke today. Anybody else you or they will have to convince me

VOTE: uc[/v]

Luke is town

Literally every stance Kyouko has made feels off to me. Like they are hunting for excuses to scum read people (which scum do), instead of actually reading people (which townies do)

VOTE: Kyouko

I can see this, something seems off about that last wall

my suggestion is to either yeet Andres or Dunn.
It seems stupid to be going and yeeting Ita, VFP, or Mon who are all known to be LHF.

Dunn wagon has a decent amount of resistance. Tbh im really uncertain on Dunn but I do think that if he doesn't start towning up, he maybe should die today because if he is scum and gets replaced, its very damn possible that I'll just let him go and the replacement will slip by for a long time and that's horrible. And Andres dipped off saying he was drunk and still hasn't come back. I have a specific reason why I think Andres is scum which, if he is scum and comes back to the thread, I think I can verify. If he doesn't come back, then he needs to be replaced. However, I do also hope he doesn't rep out cuz my tell won't necessarily work on someone else. I think that if both Dunn and Andres get replaced, we should yeet Andres because im more confident in that being scum(kinda) I dunno im just still very weirded out that I dont have a solid read on Dunn at this point. Normally, like 3 posts in, I should already know exactly what alignment he is!!!!

I don't plan on needing a replacement...

That’s not what called for a response in that post

VOTE: Dunnstral
I would like to actively push this atp

No one asked, but this is why I feel like Gamma is partnered with Kyouko. Me and Kyouko have a decently sized back and forth about my scum read on him ending in post 259

Gamma comes in, after the entire back and forth is over, and has this have this very quick progression on the topic

• Luke is town (263)
  
• I agree that this could be suspicious (265)
  
• But look, Dunn (266)
  
• Lets actually talk about him (267)

Like they are all back to back, and look to me like they are actively trying to redirect the conversation without appearing to defend their partner.

It is the weird "I TR the person making the accusation, and even agree that Kyouko seems off, but lets not talk about that. Lets talk about a lurker instead."

So, incase anyone was interested where I am at, I am still leaning towards Kyouko for a vote today because it would give me more info on whether that really was a scum partner save from Gamma, or if Gamma really is town.

I'm town so if you are also you should think about whether this fits a situation where Gamma is scum trying to buddy/pocket me or whatever you want to call it.

Personally I think it's more likely he is town here but I did think something was off about interactions between myself, Gamma, and Noraa early on. Just a feeling.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

L-1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw, out-of-game post,

I noticed everyone is saying lim like short for eliminate? Is it nor appropriate to use the L word on site anymore? haven't played in a while. I notice even the mod says "to reach majority."

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Any responses to my reads?

Can you elaborate on VFP? Most of the rest of your reads look kind of generic/popular. Since RLotus is L-1 and you TR him, can you give any reasons you TR him?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Any responses to my reads?

Can you elaborate on VFP? Most of the rest of your reads look kind of generic/popular. Since RLotus is L-1 and you TR him, can you give any reasons you TR him?

Something about this post in particular just feels... off. I can't put my finger on it.

Because I saw that they called me town.
And I didn't like it.

RLotus seems more like a confused town than a scum. There's the extremely weird push on him for reading active people as town which is ??????????
What if none of them seem scummy to him? What's he supposed to say then, lie about a scumread?

372 was not referring to RLotus at all you know... What makes you think he is confused? I don't get that from his posts at all.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

What is this?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dunn wasn't voting RLotus, RLotus is still L-1... But I think Dunn forgot who he was voting for which is concerning.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh Dragons. Sorry, I've been up nearly 24 hours at this point

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

What is this?

What is this? There’s a vote count at the top?

In my experience that's the kind of unvote someone posts when they come back to the thread and there are a lot of pages to read, but they see someone is E-1 and they do not want that person to be hammered before they have time to catch up.

However, Dunnstral was not voting RLotus, so I thought he forgot who he was voting, which seems much more likely to happen to scum than town imo.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Tell us why Ita is scum before thread locks

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I unvoted bruh.

No shit...

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wanted to see if he knew he wasn't hammering or if he thought he'd hammered

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: ItalianoVD

Still obvious scum.

Why though?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wanted to see if he knew he wasn't hammering or if he thought he'd hammered

it is sooooo damn easy to see my unvote which is literally on this damn page. and its so easy to lie about something like this. there's no point in a reaction test like this.

I think my RT was still worthwhile. Are you done voting RLotus or was that a serious vote for FMFT?

pedit: assuming you still intend to vote RLotus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not trying to start a new wagon, I'm checking if you're trying to get off the bus now that we have a replace-in

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I got off before he repped in bruh and I've made it clear that I will not no lim. tf is your point? ur stupid idea that rlotus is my scum buddy is not believable at all. If I didn't want this wagon to go through, I guarantee I could do it. I don't even entirely agree with this wagon yet I'm trusting in you and letting it go through and I've brought more votes to this wagon than you. If I wanted to stop this wagon, I would've stopped it long ago.

Fact of the matter is if you're scum they're going to run away with it and I think there's a world where it's {RLotus, Italiano, Noraa}. I think far more likely is {RLotus, Italiano,

one of the lurker slots

}, but I don't think anyone shares my viewpoint on you so I need to post it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Well there's not much to go off from them yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

FMFT are you caught up yet? What's going on over there?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That's E-1 again and VFP still has intent to hammer I believe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ah Andre unvoted nm, E-2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dunnstral you wanna vote Lotus or nah?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also Free Tea guy, Italiano and Lotus mutual TR eachother off nothing substantial, you willing to vote Lotus today instead?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Italiano and Lotus mutual TR eachother off nothing substantial

This is such a lazy reason to partner Italiano and I, can't you see how this is a bit reachy?

so you don't deny it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

top

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Noraa I think if you really want him to claim you should park the vote. There's not long until deadline and he's just going to use being at E-2 as an excuse again when VFP returns

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Town doesn't withhold their claim until within hours of the deadline when a majority have expressed intention.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm going to sleep. Be back in about 6-7 hours for the last couple hours before deadline.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I learned that x is a negative utility, y. I also learned that someone is role a. I knoe x y and a but not alignment of either.

Is role A one of Cop or Jailkeeper, or is it an unclipped role?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Luke is such a strange nk imo. he wasn't exactly widely TRed and I would assume he didn't crumb pr given he flipped vt

I thought he was widely TRed, he was my only solid one

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I learned that x is a negative utility, y. I also learned that someone is role a. I knoe x y and a but not alignment of either.

Is role A one of Cop or Jailkeeper, or is it an unclipped role?

Unflipped, autocorrect got me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma is it true that part of your role is Cop enabler?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

FMFT, is role A an enabler that enables a role that you believe to be more likely to go to scum than town, for example, a rolecop enabler?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

FMFT, is role A an enabler that enables a role that you believe to be more likely to go to scum than town, for example, a rolecop enabler?

Can just answer yes/no, we dont need to know which role is enabled yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It should be fine to claim. I was informed that part of gamma emeralds role is cop enabler. I was also infomed there is some role a in the setup but not the player or alignment. A is an unflippedrole.

Were you specifically told that his role has more to it than that, or was it not specified, or was it worded in such a way that left it open to interpretation whether his role contains more?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The claims by FMFT and Gamma put us in a situation where neither should be the elim toDay imo. It seems clear to me that if FMFT is town that the second informed player was not able to activate last Night. Give it some time and it will become apparent whether FMFT is town or scum. That info will also help with Gamma's alignment, unfortunately it won't tell us his alignment outright though (unless we flip a rolecop).

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler:

FMFT, is role A an enabler that enables a role that you believe to be more likely to go to scum than town, for example, a rolecop enabler?

FMFT, is role A an enabler that enables a role that you believe to be more likely to go to scum than town, for example, a rolecop enabler?

Can just answer yes/no, we dont need to know which role is enabled yet

It should be fine to claim. I was informed that part of gamma emeralds role is cop enabler. I was also infomed there is some role a in the setup but not the player or alignment. A is an unflippedrole.

Were you specifically told that his role has more to it than that, or was it not specified, or was it worded in such a way that left it open to interpretation whether his role contains more?

These are kinda weird. Why are you wanting so much specific information?

I had an idea that I've since realized will not work. I thought if FMFT would reveal role A we could popcorn partial claim whether we are A or not. I thought if nobody claimed A he was likely scum, but obviously if scum has role A they would just lie and say "not A"

I thought through several situations considering town/town, scum/town, town/scum, and scum/scum, and realized that it would be incorrect to elim either of them today. However, if one or both of them are scum, we need to lock down the specifics of their claims now on D2 so that when new flips or the additional informed claim, if it exists, come to light, those 2 cannot change their story. That is why I wanted specifics on why FMFT said "part of" Gamma's role, and why I wanted Gamma to confirm he is cop enabler. I dont want to leave them any wiggle room as I believe one or both will be eliminated in the next couple of Days.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Last Noraa post is a bit emotional but I'm still feeling town there. Her read on me was so exact I was shaken and I meta-dove her to see if she had used the same read in the past. I just dont see scum reading that closely at all, let alone reading me that closely.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Last Noraa post is a bit emotional but I'm still feeling town there.

Umm, when did you feel town?

Feeling that Noraa is town I mean. Is that what you're asking, how long I've felt that?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

I trust Gamma

Why do you trust Gamma, and what exactly did you mean by "I trust Gamma"?

VOTE: VFP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cop enabler seems like a good role to put on a mafioso to reduce swing. But that's not hard evidence for Gamma being scum because that might be what the mod wants us to think.

I'd like people who SR me to explain why if it's not a gut read.

Who SRs you?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I don’t like the rolefishing that went down just now.

This also doesn’t make sense. Kyouko is trying to understand a Claim that was given out partially and voluntarily. How is this role fishing?

Kyouko is trying to ask about my role through someone else. It probably wouldn’t bother me as much if there wasn’t such a serpentine route to it.

I asked you directly if you could confirm his claim.

Later, on a reread I noticed the phrase "part of" and that gray area was a red flag to me that I needed cleared up before there was a chance for it to change later. I cant very well ask you if FMFT's information indicated whether that was only a part of your role. Assuming you're both town you would be able to answer that, but I needed to hear FMFT's claim from FMFT, not from you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I said directly because you said serpentine and I wanted to make it clear that I did not ask about your role in a roundabout way.

As I've mentioned several times already, I dont want to leave anything open to be changed later when it becomes convenient for scum!FMFT or scum!Gamma.

I would not ever consider that someone would leave another player's alignment out of their claim, not that I agree with you regarding role and alignment. You think if FMFT knew your alignment he would leave it out? Roles in general are not always tied to alignment, and Cop Enabler is certainly not tied to alignment (in a Normal).

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cop enabler seems like a good role to put on a mafioso to reduce swing. But that's not hard evidence for Gamma being scum because that might be what the mod wants us to think.

I'd like people who SR me to explain why if it's not a gut read.

Who SRs you?

@Max please address this while you're online

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I said directly because you said serpentine and I wanted to make it clear that I did not ask about your role in a roundabout way.

As I've mentioned several times already, I dont want to leave anything open to be changed later when it becomes convenient for scum!FMFT or scum!Gamma.

I would not ever consider that someone would leave another player's alignment out of their claim, not that I agree with you regarding role and alignment. You think if FMFT knew your alignment he would leave it out? Roles in general are not always tied to alignment, and Cop Enabler is certainly not tied to alignment (in a Normal).

perhaps you missed the part about intentional vagueness? So what if there's more to my role? It's not exactly your business to know it currently. The thing that's important is that I am a Cop Enabler. And why do you think your questions would be inconvenient for either scum!me or scum!FMFT?

I didnt ask what it was though, I asked if there was more to it. If you get flipped and appear as only a Cop Enabler it makes things difficult for scum!FMFT now that he has confirmed he got mod info that only part of your role is Cop Enabler.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: FMFT

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I had already considered fakeclaiming backup cop to protect the real backup cop that I assumed existed ftr

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hello fellow townsfolk

[ssbm_Kyouko]

At least there's no longer the potential WIFOM of scum!Dunn hard bussing to deal with, didnt think much about this one overnight, but I do remember being worried about that

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I honestly. Legitimately. Think this game might already just be solved with Max/gamma/FMFT

I agree but want to go back and reread. Cool thing about fmft flip is there are 2 players to read for that slot iirc

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also want to wait and see if any potential follower claims a result

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma did you crumb on D1 at all?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You think a pre outed fmft busses vfp like that?

Why not? FMFT is barely doing anything so that wouldn't surprise me?
Also like I'm 100% sure {VFP, Maxthefox} has scum. Their interactions aren't natural. One of them has to be scum. There is literally like no other explanation.

I think I agree with this on gut but will reread - it does seem like the bulk of the interaction I can recall Max having in the game is with VFP. I asked her a question she answered as well but feels like, from memory at least, her gameplay largely revolves around VFP

Gamma did you crumb on D1 at all?

No, because I was unsure of whether I’d even claim my actual role

Bummer, would have been nice if you're town, but I'm not really surprised I guess

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was asking why you thought two scum was in that group you were working with, and why you seemed certain of johnny being scum

I thought Johnny was scum due to his play around Noraa and also Lotus on Day 1. Then his synopsis of the Lukewarm kill was suspicious to me. At the time I was working under the assumption that Johnny was scum. So within Free Money, you, and Kyouko I was trying to see if any combination made sense with Johnny as a partner.

I still think Johnny could be trying to town it up with Noraa as to not set off her radar. I don’t know, but I think you stand out more for me at this point for obvious reasons.

VOTE: Gamma

I'm glad someone finally said something about Johnny's reaction to Lukewarm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Think I'll have to reread d2 cuz I feel convinced Gamma's being framed and I'm just confbiasing at this point. I feel like FMFT was already screwed after that hammer and scum sacced him in an attempt to draw out PRs.

I figured out it was plausible there was a Backup Cop so I think they could have as well. I did feel like something was off amongst Nora/Gamma D1 but it was a theory contingent on {Rlotus, Italiano}.

I dont see {FMFT, Gamma, Italiano} bussing 2 days straight though. I'm just not convinced. For anyone SRing Gamma, sell me on potential partners in the meantime while I read? Open to wild theories.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Going to bed, will reread in the morning if I have time.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think VFP knew Gamma's role before it was revealed yesterDay and jumped the gun on voting him during FMFT'S partial claim. VFP was very active during the FMFT claim, more active than he has generally been in this game and prior to him voting Gamma for [reasons?] He had not voiced any suspicion of Gamma. Soon after he just says "I trust Gamma", switches to voting me, again for [reasons] (rolefishing?) and finally switches to Noraa for [reasons], although he has voiced suspicion of Noraa on D1 because she TRed him. He votes several people besides FMFT despite being one of the first onto his wagon. I think he wanted to get the vote in early before it looked like a bus as a hedge bet, and when FMFT wasn't speedlimmed for hammering RLotus, VFP saw a chance to try to shift the wagon without looking too suspicious.

As Noraa has pointed out his interaction with Max has been unusual his game but if you read them both you'll see Max's tone is fairly consistent and is likely to come from a newbie, regardless of alignment. VFP is also very actively (for VFP) keeping the idea of a Max lynch fresh hut never votes her. He also consistently discredits her and I think it's probably because 1) she's easy to discredit as a newbie and 2) people arent really paying attention to what she's saying as it is

Also threw in a quick look at the votes D1 and LMAO he was voting Gamma from RVS until Lotus was E-2. He did not push Gamma D1 and then morning of D2 he comes out the gate bussing his teammate who hammered the very same person he put to E-2

VOTE: VFP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm going to assume that there either is no Follower and that part of Gamma's role is modbait, or scum has the follower, and that is why nobody has said anything yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Let's keep it that way unless the follower saw someone visit Dunn

[ssbm_Kyouko]

[quote="In post 1031, ssbm_Kyouko"

Also threw in a quick look at the votes D1 and LMAO he was voting Gamma from RVS until Lotus was E-2. He did not push Gamma D1 and then morning of D2 he comes out the gate bussing his teammate who hammered the very same person he put to

E-1

VOTE: VFP[/quote]
EBWOP - E-1*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ugh, in 1031 I meant to say VFP sat on Gamma all day then moved his vote to RLotus, putting RLotus to E-1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm glad someone finally said something about Johnny's reaction to Lukewarm

You also thought it was weird?

Yes, it reminded me of scum ThinkBig in a previous game I recently was rereading where Dunnstral was scum. They NKed me N1 and TB had planned to frame other players based on my bad reads, and the first thing he said on the morning of D2 was along the lines of "Kyouko knew too much"

Johnny's post morning of D2 also felt a little like that, a sort of rehearsed post that didnt have the intended effect. At the same time though it's not really coordinated with FMFT's activity morning of D2

Pedit: will reconsider Max knowing she's modded recently

[ssbm_Kyouko]

and SRed his buddy

who is VFP's buddy?

FMFT. I scumread FMFT as I mentioned before. I think that is the reason VFP is pushing hard on me.

And I didn't mod anything on-site, you are wrong. I modded a chat mafia game before but the meta is different there.

I'm glad someone finally said something about Johnny's reaction to Lukewarm

You also thought it was weird?

Yes, it reminded me of scum ThinkBig in a previous game I recently was rereading where Dunnstral was scum. They NKed me N1 and TB had planned to frame other players based on my bad reads, and the first thing he said on the morning of D2 was along the lines of "Kyouko knew too much"

Johnny's post morning of D2 also felt a little like that, a sort of rehearsed post that didnt have the intended effect. At the same time though it's not really coordinated with FMFT's activity morning of D2

Pedit: will reconsider Max knowing she's modded recently

Link me the game I allegedly modded. Either I am sleepwalking or you are confusing me with someone.

I posted the edit with my post but after checking your user you're definitely new to this site, not sure if Noraa mixed you up with someone else

Pedit: right on schedule Noraa

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i don't think VFP is scum here but i'll keep looking just in case

what's the case against VFP

I have a small wall without quotes that imo sums it up best.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Posts 1031-1035 are my VFP case

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also dont think scum!Gamma has a conceivable partner and that outside of claims that VFP has played a scummier game than Gamma.

I do have concerns that I am confbiased though that you may miss if you just skim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm glad someone finally said something about Johnny's reaction to Lukewarm

I said something about it in 750 also.

Oh true, I think that was overshadowed in my mind by FMFT.

For anyone SRing Gamma, sell me on potential partners in the meantime while I read? Open to wild theories.

Nothing has really changed for me. I think scum is in some combination of Gamma, you, and Johnny. The way you and Gamma have sort of cleared each other at this point is kinda unusual.

I haven't cleared Gamma, I just think scum!Gamma is too easy. FMFT, from the scum team's POV, is likely screwed already coming into D2 because of the RLotus flip. Maybe if FMFT had lolhammered a VT, people could have been convinced the hammer came from town. Instead of trying to hold on to a full team he essentially fired a flare and said come and get me. I don't think it makes any sense to out scum!Gamma there. I think the hope was to line him up for a future mlim, and I dont want FMFT to get 2 for 1. Maybe it was just a bad play and Gamma is scum, but I'd like to think a team of 3 could come up with something better than that.

I understand it's going to be hard to get through to you on this because you see me as a potential partner of Gamma's but I'd ask you to set that aside for a minute and look at it from FMFT's POV, see if any of this clicks

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Johnny, my case on VFP - doesn't have quotes

I think VFP knew Gamma's role before it was revealed yesterDay and jumped the gun on voting him during FMFT'S partial claim. VFP was very active during the FMFT claim, more active than he has generally been in this game and prior to him voting Gamma for [reasons?] He had not voiced any suspicion of Gamma. Soon after he just says "I trust Gamma", switches to voting me, again for [reasons] (rolefishing?) and finally switches to Noraa for [reasons], although he has voiced suspicion of Noraa on D1 because she TRed him. He votes several people besides FMFT despite being one of the first onto his wagon. I think he wanted to get the vote in early before it looked like a bus as a hedge bet, and when FMFT wasn't speedlimmed for hammering RLotus, VFP saw a chance to try to shift the wagon without looking too suspicious.

As Noraa has pointed out his interaction with Max has been unusual his game but if you read them both you'll see Max's tone is fairly consistent and is likely to come from a newbie, regardless of alignment. VFP is also very actively (for VFP) keeping the idea of a Max lynch fresh hut never votes her. He also consistently discredits her and I think it's probably because 1) she's easy to discredit as a newbie and 2) people arent really paying attention to what she's saying as it is

Also threw in a quick look at the votes D1 and LMAO he was voting Gamma from RVS until Lotus was E-2. He did not push Gamma D1 and then morning of D2 he comes out the gate bussing his teammate who hammered the very same person he put to E-2

VOTE: VFP

I'm going to assume that there either is no Follower and that part of Gamma's role is modbait, or scum has the follower, and that is why nobody has said anything yet

Let's keep it that way unless the follower saw someone visit Dunn

[quote="In post 1031, ssbm_Kyouko"

Also threw in a quick look at the votes D1 and LMAO he was voting Gamma from RVS until Lotus was E-2. He did not push Gamma D1 and then morning of D2 he comes out the gate bussing his teammate who hammered the very same person he put to

E-1

VOTE: VFP

EBWOP - E-1*[/quote]

Ugh, in 1031 I meant to say VFP sat on Gamma all day then moved his vote to RLotus, putting RLotus to E-1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Top (I have thoughts that I'm holding for now as I've been horribly leading mlims all game)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And why was Noraa killed now? She was pretty much townread all game. What’s up with the timing?

I was going to wait to respond to this but I dont have any TRs left now and I think that partly sums up the kills.

Obviously not everyone can be scum but there are so many people that have little to no content, whether that is through low volume or low substance in posting, not voting, or a combination of these.

Luke was my strongest TR on D1 and Noraa was a close second that I was harboring suspicions of bussing RLotus on. After Noraa read my soul late in D1 and I saw RLotus flip green I had a solid read on both Luke and Noraa, both of whom turned out to be town. I'm not sure who else TRed Luke but I suspect he was killed because he was a townie that was TRed by town, or possibly because he sheeped town (Noraa).

Obviously Dunn was killed because he was PR.

Noraa I think was also killed because she was widely TRed. I expect I am next but maybe scum are saving me for mlimlo, as I have posted the main cases on both VFP and RLotus and was heavily involved in Gamma not dying yesterDay.

I have an additional theory on why these 2 players in particular were killed but I would like to see if anyone else sees it as my theories keep leading to town lims.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also think everyone should case along with their votes today and tomorrow and preferably consider plausible partners when doing so

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Honestly I wonder why Nora didn't die

earlier

. She was the town leader. Maybe mafia was afraid of a protective?

Maybe on N1 they were, then N2 off they target a known PR over Noraa, leaving her for N3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I actually have 3 TRs currently

Seems steep, with 3 TRs that doesn't leave many scumteams FYPOV. Assuming your TRs are town what's the most plausible team and which member do you SR primarily/why?

If you could share TRs and reasoning as well that would be helpful

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Honestly I wonder why Nora didn't die

earlier

. She was the town leader. Maybe mafia was afraid of a protective?

Maybe on N1 they were, then N2

obv

they target a known PR over Noraa, leaving her for N3

EBWOP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think I recall seeing Andres is VLA this weekend btw, in another ongoing game thread. Also waiting on him and Johnny, but I'll look into what Fenrir had to say for now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

there's a tinfoil theory that Andres's hammer was calculated and not accidental at all

but i'm more confident in gamma

What makes you say this is tinfoil? Seems like that implies you're pretty confident in town!Andre. If so, why is that?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not voting Gamma today ftr

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not voting Gamma today ftr

was there a reason for this

It's not in thread yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Think I'll have to reread d2 cuz I feel convinced Gamma's being framed and I'm just confbiasing at this point. I feel like FMFT was already screwed after that hammer and scum sacced him in an attempt to draw out PRs.

This is such horrible revisionist history btw hahaha the Scum just offered FMFT up? That’s your idea? Because the way I see it, you wanted to completely avoid them based on their claim of being Informed. Just doesn’t track at all.

I'm town though so me wanting to avoid them initially due to the claim, and scum wanting to offer them up, are unrelated concepts that can coexist.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think VFP knew Gamma's role before it was revealed yesterDay and jumped the gun on voting him during FMFT'S partial claim.

This post in general is openly Scummy. I’m starting to think that Kyouko should get executed every time this game. We should perhaps be somewhat cautious if Gamma is Town but I can’t imagine a world with them as Town.

You were supposed to wait to try this toMorrow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh dhit hes e-1 I have a guilty on andres

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: andres

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also as people seem lax about the votes please be careful with your vote if we hit Mlimlo in 2 days

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wanted to use the day phase to figure more out before I get NKed though so dont speedlim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I Copped Andre last night and he is Mafia. I didn't want to lim Gamma yesterDay on the chance he really is a Cop enabler. I could not perform my action on N1 or N2.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Even Night UB

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^Universal Backup

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So not even Follower. So it makes no mechanical sense, and it’s a straight up Scum claim. Can we just execute it?

this is also a slip, he knows the follower enabler is a real role

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i inherited dunn's role when he died N2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was hoping we would get more stances from everyone before I had to claim but Gamma was put to E-1 before Johnny even posted anything substantive

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't JK anyone

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I inherited the role after Dunn died N2 and I copped Andres last Night

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I felt like Andres hammer comes from scum and could only choose one action or the other

[ssbm_Kyouko]

so I didn't jk anyone because I thought cop was a better action

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Luke died because he was your only SR D1 so you killed him so you could start fresh the next day with the town cred from pulling off of RLotus prior to his execution. Noraa probably died because she suspected you. Third scum is likely not under heavy suspicion so the NKs were focused on getting you through alive. That's my theory at least, not that it matters why they died

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In your pt

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Makes no difference to me where anyone votes as I'm dead either way and Andre's can be limmed tomorrow but if you choose to lim me rather than making scum NK me you're just giving them an extra night to choose the kill

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lim me>nk anyone>lim andre>nk anyone and scum has selected the 2 players they remove.

Lim andre>nk me>mislim>nk anyone and scum has only chosen one of the town to remove from limlo, or none of the players from mlimlo if they no kill after a mislim tomorrow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Call it terrible all you like but objectively the best play is to kill you today

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Part of that post is accurate

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Woof

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Shocked that Gamma died today after all that transpired

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean it's been determined by the votes in ELo that Andres is town. Now we know STD is town, from his POV he knows me and Andre is TvT, I just can't comprehend not voting Max in this situation where scum knows the whole time Andre and I are TvT.

Not to mention a comparison of the ISOs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was pretty sure I was correct when I claimed it. I considered rescinding at E-1, I briefly had 180'd on you but thought we'd be better off after my flip with the info from my wagon. Nobody paid attention to it though.

Morning of the final day though I was back to SRing you.

By the way, do scum win if the majority votes for no elimination for several days in a row, or is that no longer a thing? Or was that only ever a thing in Newbie games?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

and who are you? FMFT?

Yeah, free tea phonetically is similar to three tea as in T3 I think.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I was pretty sure I was correct when I claimed it.

And yet somehow you were wrong

You could read the thread next time you're town before you lolhammer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Never would have happened if you had read

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But don’t act like it’s better than lolhammering. lol hammering is also very likely to come from Town. Scum don’t tend to be that careless. But where’s your excuse there?

Scum lolhammer and pretend for it to have been an accident often. It didnt read like an accident. That combined with the lack of active scumhunting for Days on end, you were just as confirmed scum to me as I was to you when I claimed a guilty on you.

As in I was wrong, but had every reason to believe you were scum based on your play.