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[Seanzie]

Sixth!

[Seanzie]

Sixth!

No vote?
Hmmm suspicious.
pedit:
he knows what he did

Nope, I'm too scared to vote because then you'll see my TMI.

[Seanzie]

Sixth!

No vote?
Hmmm suspicious.
pedit:
he knows what he did

Nope, I'm too scared to vote because then you'll see my TMI.

I want to see your TMI

Too bad.

[Seanzie]

Non fluff though, current reads:

Cyrus - wolf

Everyone else who has posted thus far - Town

[Seanzie]

Non fluff though, current reads:

Cyrus - wolf

Everyone else who has posted thus far - Town

Well now you ought to explain that one chief

Cyrus asked to be voted, which is usually bravado as if Cyrus doesn't care if he is voted or not. Then this:

there we go. so whos up for a wild game. or do you prefer a slow burn?

Just looks liek Cyrus is baiting the thread into trying to turn this into a wild game with quickhammers, which only benefits scum.

Everyone else's intro has been fine IMO.

[Seanzie]

Non fluff though, current reads:

Cyrus - wolf

Everyone else who has posted thus far - Town

Aahahaha.....
You rolled scum, aren't you?

Does someone on a new forum that knows no one who rolls scum usually stick their neck out to push the game out of fluff?

[Seanzie]

new forum?

New to me.

[Seanzie]

Non fluff though, current reads:

Cyrus - wolf

Everyone else who has posted thus far - Town

Aahahaha.....
You rolled scum, aren't you?

Does someone on a new forum that knows no one who rolls scum usually stick their neck out to push the game out of fluff?

VOTE: Seanzie

I promise you that townreading me is a much better move here, but you do you.

[Seanzie]

Non fluff though, current reads:

Cyrus - wolf

Everyone else who has posted thus far - Town

Aahahaha.....
You rolled scum, aren't you?

Does someone on a new forum that knows no one who rolls scum usually stick their neck out to push the game out of fluff?

I guess I can see the TMI of yours now....

VOTE: Seanzie

Btw, did you play forum mafia or any sort of mafia game anywhere else before?

Yes. I've played on MafiaCafe and TheSyndicate. That's why I said "new forum" not "new game".

[Seanzie]

Wagon on Seanzie seems way overblown? What am I missing?

The guy obviously knows how to play mafia so when a player like that comes in and says "I am new to this site why would I stick out my neck like this as scum?" it strikes me as potential scum who wants to sell a certain image of themselves with weird self-meta.

I'm strengthening my townlean on you based on this, and now you're probably going to accuse me of trying to pocket you.

[Seanzie]

rvs votes dont mean nothing for one for two im a wild card . so i tend to make games wild . you seem to be trying to hard relax and have fun gee. we just started . you will see me casting votes every where when i think people are scum . even when i said they were town. plus no two games of mine are the same.

cyrus got scared, pressure worked well

scared no . angry yes i was trying to have fun and he went that rout .

Dude, if you're seriously angry, I'm sorry but like... I'm just playing the game. I'm allowed to voice townreads and scumreads on whomever I please. Your reaction to my wolfread on you looks really bad though. If you're town and trying to have a relaxing (but purportedly wild?) game, I don't see you getting super angry about someone calling you a wolf on Page 1 while everyone else is in RVS.

[Seanzie]

Wagon on Seanzie seems way overblown? What am I missing?

He seems (newb) scum to me.... what do you think?

^this is fake. Townlean rescinded.

[Seanzie]

Wagon on Seanzie seems way overblown? What am I missing?

He seems (newb) scum to me.... what do you think?

^this is fake. Townlean rescinded.

Multiple people: This guy clearly knows what's up. He could be scum pulling a second level scum play.

Salsabil: He looks like newb scum.

Nope.

[Seanzie]

rvs votes dont mean nothing for one for two im a wild card . so i tend to make games wild . you seem to be trying to hard relax and have fun gee. we just started . you will see me casting votes every where when i think people are scum . even when i said they were town. plus no two games of mine are the same.

cyrus got scared, pressure worked well

Umm... what am I missing?

that some how asking for votes in rvs make you scum.

I thought it was a joke?

It wasn't. It was just an overstated read to get the game going.

How do you feel about Cyrus's reaction to it?

[Seanzie]

Wagon on Seanzie seems way overblown? What am I missing?

He seems (newb) scum to me.... what do you think?

^this is fake. Townlean rescinded.

Multiple people: This guy clearly knows what's up. He could be scum pulling a second level scum play.

Salsabil: He looks like newb scum.

Nope.

Well bruh, if you get caught on day 1 between page 1 to 3.... I'm sorry but I don't think it's a second level scum play tbh.

What does that say about you and Cyrus?

[Seanzie]

@Seanzie

Do you mind going over your mafia journey? I wanna know more, not so much about the sites you played in, but more how you felt about the games you played, what you like, dislike, etc. Anything you want.

Hmm... I have never been asked this before.

I started playing exactly one year and two days ago (I only know this because a friend of mine mentioned "mafia birthdays" like two weeks ago, and I found that mine was about to happen:P and I took to it pretty quick, and I was a bit of a natural. I'm a very analytical player, and love mech stuff, but also I have very good vibe reads.

I learned a lot at my home site (MafC), but eventually started playing at TS because the site was more active, and also they had some VERY strong players there (Sloonei, the current mafia champion is from there, which really drew me to TS). My game improved a lot at TS, as there are some super duper strong players, and I have enjoyed learning from them.

It is funny that you mentioned my "journey", because actually a journey is what brings me here to MS. After playing on MafC and TS for a while, I decided that I wanted to go tour other sites, picking up techniques and customs to bring back to MafC. This was actually the first site on my journey, and my plan is to play 2-3 games here to get a sense of how y'all play, and then move on to another site. Of course, the sites I enjoy playing on, I'll probably play semi-regularly, but more the point of the journey is to learn about different communities and try to learn more about the games to synthesize ideas and playstyles from all over.

I enjoy playing both town and scum. I like gambiting a lot as either alignment. I also tend to go very hard to see how people react, but will stop and take a step back to re-evaluate often so that I don't get too confbias-y with my pushes or clears.

[Seanzie]

Wagon on Seanzie seems way overblown? What am I missing?

He seems (newb) scum to me.... what do you think?

^this is fake. Townlean rescinded.

Multiple people: This guy clearly knows what's up. He could be scum pulling a second level scum play.

Salsabil: He looks like newb scum.

Nope.

Well bruh, if you get caught on day 1 between page 1 to 3.... I'm sorry but I don't think it's a second level scum play tbh.

What does that say about you and Cyrus?

If you're implying that we're scum together then it's totally wrong. I only know meta about these people from the pl:

T3

,

Almost50

and

Dwlee99

. So, the others' (including

cyrus62

) meta is unfamiliar to me.
and about my scum meta, if you don't familiar with my gameplay, I can most probably trick you as my town and scum game is pretty similar.

Why are you bringing up meta here? There is nothing wrong with mentioning who you know in general, but it seems weird to tack that onto a post where you're saying "I'm not scum". Is the first sentence in any way linked to the rest of the post?

[Seanzie]

i would prefer the word scum to wolf. as i feel like im being flat out called a lier or a cheat or cut throat, back stabber. i may have over reacted but wolf to me , means a lot more then mafia.

If this is really what angered you, then I'm sorry. I use the words "wolf" and "mafia" interchangably, so this might just be a cultural difference. I will try to call you scum or mafia from now on, but sorry if I slip up once or twice.

I still think you are likely scum though.

[Seanzie]

Everybody, quick! Name one person who you think is town!

[Seanzie]

Monkey, if you missed the memo, we're out of fluff already. Who is your strongest townread?

[Seanzie]

Monkey, if you missed the memo, we're out of fluff already. Who is your strongest townread?

I don't have any townreads because anybody could be scum!

Yes, but anyone could be town.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Cyrus62

[Seanzie]

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

[Seanzie]

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

Who do you think is town atm?

Nom is my top townread, and Kerset is probably second

[Seanzie]

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

[Seanzie]

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

Who do you think is town atm?

Nom is my top townread, and Kerset is probably second

Why do you think Kerset is town?
I find this line curious.

Their entrance into the thread felt comfortable, and I mindmelded with them a bit about Cyrus's reaction to me calling him scum.

[Seanzie]

I ask because I actually have scum!kerset ideas coming to mind here so I was a bit puzzled by someone townreading the slot
but I like this explanation, I think it's potentially townie
VOTE: Kerset
Let's see how this vote goes.
ftr I still think that there might be scum in the Sean/Salsabil/Cyrus trio, those interactions have a hint of "blunder" to them if that makes sense
pedit: no u

Can you elaborate on rhose ideas?

[Seanzie]

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

How?

Well like, the whole premise of the game of mafia is that if town works together, they can create collective reads that are >rand. The longer we wait to start giving reads and working together, the less time we have to sort through those reads and land on a solid collective PoE.

Also, in my experience, the start of the game is one of the most vulnerable times for scum. Getting started D1 as scum is very difficult for many people, whereas once you've gotten started in the thread, it is usually easier to maintain that. So waiting around, letting everyone get super comfy before you start actually playing is just missing an opportunity to catch scum at the gate.

[Seanzie]

I ask because I actually have scum!kerset ideas coming to mind here so I was a bit puzzled by someone townreading the slot
but I like this explanation, I think it's potentially townie
VOTE: Kerset
Let's see how this vote goes.
ftr I still think that there might be scum in the Sean/Salsabil/Cyrus trio, those interactions have a hint of "blunder" to them if that makes sense
pedit: no u

Can you elaborate on rhose ideas?

I'm thinking kerset might be lurking scum here. He seems happy to interject in the discussion without giving any real tangible thoughts which is +scum here.
I've seen a lot of scum players take a background type of approach to the game and sometimes show up to ask a question to people. I see that potential in Kerset.

Okay, that's fair. Do you have any townleans?

[Seanzie]

Cyrus seems to be playing fast-and-loose which I'd consider townie. Everyone else I haven't seen enough from.

What are you seeing here that is fast-and-loose?

[Seanzie]

i see kerset as more lay back town to be honest i wont vote them yet.

sean to me is feeling town like the way hes pushing feels like hes trying to short maybe a bit fast for my taste but still.

What happened to mostly having null reads a page ago?
pedit: I'm still figuring things out, mostly
I am hesitant to give townreads early on really

What does "pedit" mean?

[Seanzie]

jesus christ that was 6 pages in no time.

rvs votes dont mean nothing for one for

two im a wild card . so i tend to make games wild

. you seem to be trying to hard relax and have fun gee. we just started . you will see me casting votes every where when i think people are scum . even when i said they were town. plus no two games of mine are the same.

wild cards are anti-town, calling yourself feels like trying to pre-deflect any scum reads people get of your plays.

VOTE: cyrus62

Also another name for this game is "werewolf" where the 'werewofl" or "wolf" is the mafia. Not entirely convinced that your wolf outrage was genuine.


My scumreads:

cyrus92
monkee

Townreads:

seanzie

Rest are null

Why is Monkey a scumread?

[Seanzie]

Sup nerds.

VOTE: salsabil

Is it RVS or serious?

It's serious, was going to vote Kerset before reading. Cyrus is also scummy.

If these are serious reads, can you give your thoughts on them?

Also, do you have anyone as town?

[Seanzie]

i think thats l1 for me. and sean

Sorry, what is l1?

[Seanzie]

ssbm_Kyouko just ninja'd my thoughts re: Boxxxy scumreading Monkey, and I think that is a good look since Monkey is an easy push right now. I'd still like to hear ssbm_Kyouko's response to those reads they gave that I asked them about, but I'm giving this slot a townlean.

[Seanzie]

If we lim cyrus today and he flips scum I'll happily reveal the tell, mind you. I just think that if I post it right now it won't be taken seriously at all and we will go down an awkward phase where I explain my reasoning for posts and posts to come, but I have strong reasons to think this indicates scum!cyrus

If you're going to use this tell as a reason to vote there, I want to hear it prior to the elim, unless you have sufficiently good reasons for your vote outside of this tell.

[Seanzie]

ssbm_Kyouko just ninja'd my thoughts re: Boxxxy scumreading Monkey, and I think that is a good look since Monkey is an easy push right now. I'd still like to hear ssbm_Kyouko's response to those reads they gave that I asked them about, but I'm giving this slot a townlean.

But scums offen try to go for easy push(es)??

Yes, Boxxxy went for the easy push and ssbm_Kyouko questioned Boxxxy about it, which looks good for ssbm_Kyouko.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie answer me senpai

Answer you about what?

[Seanzie]

Seanzie is not fake helpful, he's just the synonym of frantic (wink wink). They usually have 2-serious-2-soon openings that are meant to be funny in an ironic way or provocative that those unfamiliar would react to them. Right, Seanzie? Confirm if I'm right.

This? Idk what synonym you're referring to, but no, this doesn't look right.

I wanted to get the game going, and I did. There was nothing funny, ironic or provocative about it.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie answer me senpai

Answer you about what?

are you excited frenzied heated fervid agitated overwrought

I do get quite excited playing the game, yes. I am not overly excited at this current moment though.

[Seanzie]

Hectic, Seanzie. Are you Hectic?

Your use of capitals makes me suggest you are asking if I am another player. No, I am not. "Seanzie" is the only moniker I have played mafia under.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: cubxxy
I am convinced.

Why is that? Please share your thoughts.

[Seanzie]

VOTE: cubxxy
I am convinced.

Why is that? Please share your thoughts.

I'm curious on your thoughts about boxxy and the wagon forming on him.

I find Monkey's posts hard to follow because many of them are just quotes, no explanations. This is not good IMO since it leaves it to the reader to fill in the blanks.

Your push that Boxxy being pinged by your "I have a scumtell on Cyrus that I'm not going to voice" is also questionable. You said that Boxxy and Dwlee being pinged by that were different because of something like Boxxy having a scumread on Cyrus before and Dwlee not, but I think that is BS since I also was highly pinged by you doing that, and I have a scumream on Cyrus.

I'll have to go back and actually look at the case carefully if I want to say something sensible, but I don't like your and Monkey's little "mindmeld". It overwhelmed the rest of the thread in a way that reduced the ability for others to interact and give input and limited the free formation of reads. Maybe you two are just excited town, but I've also seen chaotic scumteams do this. Especially Monkey's "you fill in the blanks" wallposting.

[Seanzie]

It overwhelmed the rest of the thread in a way that reduced the ability for others to interact and give input and limited the free formation of reads.

are you not free to form your reads? is the formation of reads not free enough?

Do you know about threadhealth?

[Seanzie]

like this is painfully clear as a case, what's got you confused here?

Boxxy's posts aren't good. TL;DR Boxxy is positioning himself to be the town's lord and savior from these anti-town scrubs and he's gonna scumhunt the scum to infinity and beyond. I read this as scum who's trying to score towncred. This is not how town actually score towncred. Town score towncred by making an effort in actually sorting slots. But in fact, he's done the opposite — he's reading into things very superficially and focuses much more on keeping the 'tegridy of muh tuhwn.

Corroborating evidence: #200 (and my comment #208)

He also did this:
> Seanzie is dishonest
> votes nomnomnom for "anti-town behavior"
Reference: #222

He also did this:
>monkey is anti-town and should be lynched
>hahaha i was just saying that just in case!
Reference: #149 → #151 → #172 → #222 (the first part)

That's just my complaint. There's a lot of tickets from noms and Salsabil too.

Tbh I didn't even see this post in particular in the flurry of posts. I will take a look and let you know my thoughts.

[Seanzie]

Boxxy's posts aren't good. TL;DR

Boxxy is positioning himself to be the town's lord and savior from these anti-town scrubs and he's gonna scumhunt the scum to infinity and beyond. I read this as scum who's trying to score towncred. This is not how town actually score towncred. Town score towncred by making an effort in actually sorting slots. But in fact, he's done the opposite — he's reading into things very superficially and focuses much more on keeping the 'tegridy of muh tuhwn.

Corroborating evidence: #200 (and my comment #208)

He also did this:
> Seanzie is dishonest
> votes nomnomnom for "anti-town behavior"
Reference: #222

He also did this:
>monkey is anti-town and should be lynched
>hahaha i was just saying that just in case!
Reference: #149 → #151 → #172 → #222 (the first part)

That's just my complaint. There's a lot of tickets from noms and Salsabil too.

While I appreciate the decorative language here, this is overstated.

This is an oversimplication of that post. Boxxy said I was reaching, and possibly dishonest. I don't think this is bad from Boxxy since while I had townread ssbm_Kyouko's response to Boxxy's scumread of Monkey, I didn't actually think Boxxy having that scumread was AI, simply that I liked ssbm_Kyouko's thoughts. From Boxxy's perspective, I think them thinking that was reaching and possibly dishonest is reasonable.

Boxxy's vote on Nom in this post also looks very reasonable to me because Nom is being super shady with this "I have a reason, but I'm not going to share" thing.

Now that I'm looking at it though, I REALLY don't like how Monkey conflated two clearly unrelated parts of Boxxy's post here. Boxxy's post is clearly two posts in 1, but Monkey is acting like it is one post. Monkey didn't actually explain what is wrong with those two bulletpoints he provided, but it is clear the reader would read those two bulletpoints as "Boxxy is shading Sean, but voting Nom in the same post", but this just isn't how that post actually reads. It is two separate posts, one where Boxxy responds to my townread of ssbm_Kyouko in a reasonable way, and another where Boxxy places a vote on Nom for reasons I agree with. This point is not worthy of a scumread on Boxxy IMO.

Boxxy's progression in the quoted posts:

#149: Monkey is a scumread.

#151: trolling is anti-town.

#172: Anti-town is more likely to flip scum. I don't like trolls.

#222: I didn't vote Monkey, but I said I support a policy elim on them.

The only post there that pings me is #222 because Boxxy never said anything about a policy elim earlier. The rest is fine.

Conclusion: There is something to be pinged about Boxxy here, but this is not rush!elim worthy IMO.

I also worry about Monkey here, the way the case is presented is somewhat disingenuous, and you really need to check all references to see it. I know sometimes I make these sorts of cases as town, so idk if this is AI necessarily, but I will definitely be checking all of Monkey's progressions and cases carefully in the future to make sure I agree with Monkey's conclusions (or implied conclusions because they are missing from the posts). Especially without the links, that makes it hard to check Monkey's work here.

[Seanzie]

This is an oversimplication of that post. Boxxy said I was reaching, and possibly dishonest. I don't think this is bad from Boxxy since while I had townread ssbm_Kyouko's response to Boxxy's scumread of Monkey, I didn't actually think Boxxy having that scumread was AI, simply that I liked ssbm_Kyouko's thoughts. From Boxxy's perspective, I think them thinking that was reaching and possibly dishonest is reasonable.

So if he thought you were possibly dishonest (possibly scummy, in this game where you're trying to catch liars), why wouldn't he have voted you

and

instead voted someone who he thought was anti-town?

If his "anti-town is scum" reads were only as shallow that immediately he can write it off as a town-lean, why would he vote an anti-town player vs someone who he thought was

actually dishonest?

You are completely disregarding Boxxy's clear hesitation about me being "possibly dishonest" here. You're either tunneling at this point, or deliberately trying to dishonestly bury Boxxy.

Boxxy had multiple posts that build up to the vote on Nom. Again, Nom's "I have a scumtell on Cyrus, but I'm not going to say it unitl after we elim him" was super shady, and Boxxy has clear progression here that you're ignoring. Can you tell me where he said that Nom is JUST anti-town like you're saying? Because anyone who actually reads will see that Boxxy was pushing Nom about this in a way that suggests a scumread.

You've now pushed Boxxy's read to "actually dishonest". That isn't what he said, and ignores all nuance of the situation. You're misrepping here. Please stop.

Sorry, putting my foot down. I don't even have strong opinions about Boxxy right now, but Monkey's case is BAD, so I feel like I need to defend Boxxy.

Monkey, please stop misrepping, please don't oversimplify. Please stop removing parts of posts that are relevant to what you're quoting as well to tell a narrative that isn't there. You're either full on conf-biasing right now or trying to powerwolf, and I won't stand for either.

[Seanzie]

Boxxy's progression in the quoted posts:

#149: Monkey is a scumread.

#151: trolling is anti-town.

#172: Anti-town is more likely to flip scum. I don't like trolls.

#222: I didn't vote Monkey, but I said I support a policy elim on them.

You think this is a reasonable progression? He said that he thinks I will flip scum, but recants that he wasn't actually thinking that I was scum — only a troll? And then townleans me out of nowhere?

Why did you leave out the part of this where I actually talk about the progression? You have a helluva lot of agenda about you right now.

[Seanzie]

monkey you're tunneled bro. You argument continues to be "why did he one person when he also said somebody else could be scummy." From now on I'll try to talk about only one thing at a time so you don't get confused okay?

FTR, you are definitely not out of the ballpark with me, even if I have shut down some bad casing of you. Monkey's case had issues, but that doesn't clear you.

Tell me about your early Monkey read. Why did you switch from "Monkey scum" to "Monkey is a policy elim" the way you did.

[Seanzie]

Why did you leave out the part of this where I actually talk about the progression? You have a helluva lot of agenda about you right now.

Ahh so you hate me for quoting walls but now I'm FULL of agenda for making my quotes efficient.

You have a helluva lot of agenda about you right now

I have no problem with walls. I have a problem with a wall of quotes with little to no analysis between them.

You're also not just making your quotes efficient, you are removing parts that don't fit your narrative. When I gave an analysis on a progression, then you quote the progression but not the analysis and ask me what I think of the progression as if I hadn't already given some thoughts, that is not okay with me. Do you have questions about my analysis or do you just want me to repeat it for you?

[Seanzie]

You're also not just making your quotes efficient, you are removing parts that don't fit your narrative. When I gave an analysis on a progression, then you quote the progression but not the analysis and ask me what I think of the progression as if I hadn't already given some thoughts, that is not okay with me. Do you have questions about my analysis or do you just want me to repeat it for you?

So what did I leave out that made it conform to me agenda then? Tell me.

How about the concluding sentence that I color-coded to make clear was part of the rest?

This is your post to me:

Boxxy's progression in the quoted posts:

#149: Monkey is a scumread.

#151: trolling is anti-town.

#172: Anti-town is more likely to flip scum. I don't like trolls.

#222: I didn't vote Monkey, but I said I support a policy elim on them.

You think this is a reasonable progression? He said that he thinks I will flip scum, but recants that he wasn't actually thinking that I was scum — only a troll? And then townleans me out of nowhere?

Here is the color-coded part that was clearly all one unit in my original post:

Boxxy's progression in the quoted posts:

#149: Monkey is a scumread.

#151: trolling is anti-town.

#172: Anti-town is more likely to flip scum. I don't like trolls.

#222: I didn't vote Monkey, but I said I support a policy elim on them.

The only post there that pings me is #222 because Boxxy never said anything about a policy elim earlier. The rest is fine.

Do you see how you left out that last sentence where I clearly said there was some issue with the progression, but the rest is fine? Then you post asking me if I think the progression is reasonable as if I didn't say anything about it already? I am willing to work with you, but only if you cut this crap. You are putting words in my mouth and other people's mouths and cutting words in bad ways, and it is minimally highly anti-town.

[Seanzie]

Also, include your answer — because you dodged the question

I'm assuming you mean my answer to this:

Boxxy's progression in the quoted posts:

#149: Monkey is a scumread.

#151: trolling is anti-town.

#172: Anti-town is more likely to flip scum. I don't like trolls.

#222: I didn't vote Monkey, but I said I support a policy elim on them.

You think this is a reasonable progression?

He said that he thinks I will flip scum

,

but recants that he wasn't actually thinking that I was scum — only a troll?

And then townleans me out of nowhere?

Since I already told you I didn't think it was reasonable, I will address your points one at a time.

Did he? He listed you as a scumread. I suppose this is essentially the same thing, so okay.

I don't see how he recanted here. #151 and #172 together suggests that he is thinking you are a troll and thus scum. Maybe he is backtracking here - that I would be willing to hear an arguement for, but what I don't see him recanting like you imply. He never said you're ONLY a troll or anything like that, you're adding narrative here.

Yes, 50 posts later when you are actually posting game-related content, his read on you seems to have changed. Do you scumread everyone whose reads change with new information?

I'm not even saying you're necessarily wrong, but the way you are casing is bad. You are subjecting everything to a narrative that doesn't necessarily exist. You insert your own strengthenings when it suits you to strengthen and ignore tonal doubt when it doesn't suit you.

[Seanzie]

Sean seems to misrepresent monkey

How so, flame fanner?

[Seanzie]

Seanzie, he townleaned me out of nowhere from #222. My posts before #222 were horseshit.

Give me a second to look to see if I agree with your assessment of your own posts.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie, he townleaned me out of nowhere from #222. My posts before #222 were horseshit.

Give me a second to look to see if I agree with your assessment of your own posts.

Okay, yes #222 was before you actually started posting game-related content. I agree that him switching to a townread there is bad.

[Seanzie]

I'm not even saying you're necessarily wrong, but the way you are casing is bad. You are subjecting everything to a narrative that doesn't necessarily exist. You insert your own strengthenings when it suits you to strengthen and ignore tonal doubt when it doesn't suit you.

Stop projecting.

Narrator: While Monkey said this with much gusto towards Seanzie, it was very clear Monkey was ultimately speaking to himself.

[Seanzie]

@Nom, remind me sometime later to explain threadhealth to you... if you're interested. I meant to earlier, but then I got wrapped in sorting through Monkey's case.

[Seanzie]

Okay, but what's a detective? I want to believe you

Detective is an investigative role that checks if their target has made a kill or not I think.

[Seanzie]

Detective is an investigative role that checks if their target has made a kill or not I think.

Is this true boxxy??? Are you really a roaming detective, and this is your role mechanic???

There's this thing called Google you know. I'm sure if 800 of you had 800 years, you could type the right thing in to get the search you want.

[Seanzie]

I'm such an idiot baka

You know that you're not very good at faking things, right?

[Seanzie]

Boxxy, can you give a legacy? If you were hammered right now, what would you want town to know as your parting thoughts?

[Seanzie]

Never mind. Tell if you want or save for later

VOTE: Seanzie

While I'm waiting for Boxxy...

Tell me about me:)

[Seanzie]

Also feels like a lot of iioa throughout, and an unusual fixation on getting a sense of where everyone's townreads are, which could be nai but here feels more like trying to map the topography and get a strategic push in at a later time

This is about you Sean

What does iioa mean?

The other point is fair. Ftr it is more that I am much more of a scumreader than a townreader, and am actively working on my towncore-game.

[Seanzie]

I am concerned by the fact that Boxxy hasn't given a legacy.

[Seanzie]

Also feels like a lot of iioa throughout, and an unusual fixation on getting a sense of where everyone's townreads are, which could be nai but here feels more like trying to map the topography and get a strategic push in at a later time

This is about you Sean

What does iioa mean?

The other point is fair. Ftr it is more that I am much more of a scumreader than a townreader, and am actively working on my towncore-game.

Information instead of analysis. Basically recapping the game without sharing thoughts.

Lol, okay, well that doesn't jive with my self-perception at all, so ssbm_Kyouko, please explain how you can describe me as iioa? I asked for townreads and thoughts quite often, that is true, but also at the time I was by far the most outspoken about reads and analysis. I actually almost lost interest in the game early on because of how hard I had to push for anyone to give me anything to bounce ideas off of.

[Seanzie]

Also, atp boxxy not giving a legacy is making me think he is just outed scum.

[Seanzie]

And Cyrus never responding to my flame fanner comment makes me think he might just be Boxxy's partner.

[Seanzie]

And Cyrus never responding to my flame fanner comment makes me think he might just be Boxxy's partner.

I'm on the phone so I will case why I wasn't just facing flames later plus as I said I'm doing 3 games at once.

I await your case. For now, I'm going to assume you TMI'd me and Monkey both town.

[Seanzie]

Lie like that d1.

Can you elaborate on how this would be a particularly fantastic lie? What would you expect from a d1 fakeclaim?

[Seanzie]

Lie like that d1.

Can you elaborate on how this would be a particularly fantastic lie? What would you expect from a d1 fakeclaim?

I don't think it's fake. I ment

why would he lie like that

. I think boxy is telling the truth.

Yes, I know you don't think it is fake. I'm asking you why.

Lie like

what?

That is what I am asking. What is special about his claim that makes it not likely a lie? Is it the claim itself, or is it your read on the slot? If it is the claim itself that looks genuine, what would you expect a D1 fakeclaim to look like?

[Seanzie]

i dont know i think cyrus is telling the truth!

I do agree that I think the role is real.

[Seanzie]

Also feels like a lot of iioa throughout, and an unusual fixation on getting a sense of where everyone's townreads are, which could be nai but here feels more like trying to map the topography and get a strategic push in at a later time

This is about you Sean

What does iioa mean?

The other point is fair. Ftr it is more that I am much more of a scumreader than a townreader, and am actively working on my towncore-game.

Information instead of analysis. Basically recapping the game without sharing thoughts.

Lol, okay, well that doesn't jive with my self-perception at all, so ssbm_Kyouko, please explain how you can describe me as iioa? I asked for townreads and thoughts quite often, that is true, but also at the time I was by far the most outspoken about reads and analysis. I actually almost lost interest in the game early on because of how hard I had to push for anyone to give me anything to bounce ideas off of.

Iioa can be recapping but it can be other things too i.e. posting about mechanics or ideal strategy to make it feel like you are contributing when you're not.

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

How?

Well like, the whole premise of the game of mafia is that if town works together, they can create collective reads that are >rand. The longer we wait to start giving reads and working together, the less time we have to sort through those reads and land on a solid collective PoE.

Also, in my experience, the start of the game is one of the most vulnerable times for scum. Getting started D1 as scum is very difficult for many people, whereas once you've gotten started in the thread, it is usually easier to maintain that. So waiting around, letting everyone get super comfy before you start actually playing is just missing an opportunity to catch scum at the gate.

It overwhelmed the rest of the thread in a way that reduced the ability for others to interact and give input and limited the free formation of reads.

are you not free to form your reads? is the formation of reads not free enough?

Do you know about threadhealth?

It really felt like it was more than these 3 at the time I posted that, but I see no others.

And among those three posts, how much analysis do you see?

[Seanzie]

You also post a lot of superficial questions and seem to not be concerned about whether or not they are answered, and 389 is very grandstandy and waffley at the same time. The language is that of scum that is worried about stepping too much on powertown toes while trying to gain towncred for putting their foot down and standing up for the little guy.

Spoiler:

This is an oversimplication of that post. Boxxy said I was reaching, and possibly dishonest. I don't think this is bad from Boxxy since while I had townread ssbm_Kyouko's response to Boxxy's scumread of Monkey, I didn't actually think Boxxy having that scumread was AI, simply that I liked ssbm_Kyouko's thoughts. From Boxxy's perspective, I think them thinking that was reaching and possibly dishonest is reasonable.

So if he thought you were possibly dishonest (possibly scummy, in this game where you're trying to catch liars), why wouldn't he have voted you

and

instead voted someone who he thought was anti-town?

If his "anti-town is scum" reads were only as shallow that immediately he can write it off as a town-lean, why would he vote an anti-town player vs someone who he thought was

actually dishonest?

You are completely disregarding Boxxy's clear hesitation about me being "possibly dishonest" here. You're either tunneling at this point, or deliberately trying to dishonestly bury Boxxy.

Boxxy had multiple posts that build up to the vote on Nom. Again, Nom's "I have a scumtell on Cyrus, but I'm not going to say it unitl after we elim him" was super shady, and Boxxy has clear progression here that you're ignoring. Can you tell me where he said that Nom is JUST anti-town like you're saying? Because anyone who actually reads will see that Boxxy was pushing Nom about this in a way that suggests a scumread.

You've now pushed Boxxy's read to "actually dishonest". That isn't what he said, and ignores all nuance of the situation. You're misrepping here. Please stop.

Sorry, putting my foot down

. I don't even have strong opinions about Boxxy right now, but Monkey's case is BAD, so I feel like I need to defend Boxxy.

Monkey, please stop misrepping, please don't oversimplify. Please stop removing parts of posts that are relevant to what you're quoting as well to tell a narrative that isn't there. You're either full on conf-biasing right now or trying to powerwolf,

and I won't stand for either

.

Do you think Boxxy will flip mafia or town?

[Seanzie]

I have no idea why the text on my most recent post showed up so small. I am asking ssbm_Kyouko "Do you think Boxxy will flip mafia or town?".

[Seanzie]

I have no idea why the text on my most recent post showed up so small. I am asking ssbm_Kyouko "Do you think Boxxy will flip mafia or town?".

Town

Spoiler:

I think it's something to do with spoiler tags because when I tried to quote 499 for my response, my response was formatted like your question was.

I think we are at the verge of hammering Boxxy. If you have anything to say in their defense, can you share?

[Seanzie]

Almost, what Monkey does he got? He's avoiding the question and won't play with me even though he's a "troll" player.

I am letting him play it all out until he hangs himself with his own tail.

FTR, ISO me vs him. See my reaction to his entrance. I may have lightened up a little since, but it doesn't mean I have him as a "clear".

BTW, my Full read list looks like this:

Definitely TOWN

:
Almost50, boxxy, Seanzie, Kerset, Rathe/Bambi Jay

Possibly Town

(have some reservations/paranoia):
Dwlee99, Salsabil Faria

Null:

T3, MaxTheFox

Scummy

:
humaneatingmonkey

SCUM

:
nomnomnom


I'd advise you/anyone to to do a triple-ISO of cyrus/nom/HEM and re-evaluate their reads accordingly.

Like, who votes/pushes boxxy the most? That trio.

T3 backed off as soon as he realized the claimed role wasn't what he thought it was. T3's push thus wasn't agenda-y.

Who pushed Seenzie (and for what)??

Who

finally gave up

and voted cyrus?? Scum ARE nom & HEM.

VOTE: 3 noms

It seems like your whole worldview is premised on the idea that Boxxy is town. Why do you think that? I think that is a very dubious assumption.

You think Cyrus pushed Boxxy with any sort of seriousness? Can you please provide evidence for this?

Actually, it was me pushing HEM, not HEM pushing me. And after going back and forth with HEM, I felt good about hem. While there were some issues with how his original case was presented, he was able to further explain and his case on Boxxy had depth, and pointed out some things that IMO very likely point to Scum!Boxxy.

Please tell me about HEM and Cyrus's interactions. I'd like to see how you are coming to the conclusion that they are likely teamed.

Finally gave up? What exactly were they giving up? If you think the team is Cyrus/Nom/HEM, then that is 3 out of the 7 votes on Cyrus, so Cyrus wouldn't have been in immediate danger, so I don't see how you could be concluding that the team just gave up on saving Cyrus.

[Seanzie]

You're a novice psychologist?

[Seanzie]

I'm not even a vig nor do I have the ability to kill anyone.

Say it ain't so!

Alright, alright.. I will also retract my "guilty". As I said, I am NOVICE. I couldn't have acted on N1. DUH!

Please immediately answer my questions from my earlier post #852. I will do the ISOs you asked, but I want to get a read on YOU, and the way I will do that is by seeing how you explain yourself.

[Seanzie]

I'm not even a vig nor do I have the ability to kill anyone.

Say it ain't so!

Alright, alright.. I will also retract my "guilty". As I said, I am NOVICE. I couldn't have acted on N1. DUH!

Please immediately answer my questions from my earlier post #852. I will do the ISOs you asked, but I want to get a read on YOU, and the way I will do that is by seeing how you explain yourself.

You want me to respond to..

Spoiler:

Subject: Misery Mo The Revelation

Player / Role
----------------------
Quailman - Nurse (Back up Doc): Made a choice every night, but no effect
d8p - Traveling Salesman (Townie): Tried to get people to buy his product, no effect
CRiX - LGM(2) (Mafia)
JereIC - Farmer's Daughter (Prostitute): Entertained barn dweller at night blocking their choice
Dourgrim -LGM(1)(Mafia)
PolarBoy -LGM(3)(Mafia)
Morphius - Sheriff(Naive Cop)
NEHI - Farmer (Pimp) - Choose someone to sleep in his barn ea night.
MeMe - Deputy(Paranoid Cop/Vig): One bullet warned not to kill an innocent. Replacement Sheriff
Macros - Doc
mikegoo - MailMan: Townie communicate with one person each night via spam. (Backup MIB)
Foolster41 - MIB (Sane Cop/Role swapper): Invetigated Aliens. Swapped roles with non aliens
--------------
--Precedence--
Farmer and Farmers Daughter. Target always stays in barn!
Mailman The mail always goes through! (unless there's women involved)
MIB may swap before the invasion...
LGM Abduction then Zap -in the middle of the night...
Farmer(vig) All killers before docs can "heal"
Doc/Nurse "help the wounded if not themselves wounded
Sheriff/Deputy early morning patrol?
Traveling Salesman townie...

~*~ Behind the scenes / Triggers
LGM abductees are incommunicado until released the next game day.
Trigger for release: abductor uses abducteds name or abductor recieves a vote.

If the MIB targets a LGM he gets Alien else he swaps roles with his target.
Becoming the MIB prevents that persons night action.
Neither person is told about the other.

The doc cannot prevent abduction.
The nurse becomes the doc if the doc dies. Else nurses target is unaffected.

Deputy becomes sheriff if sheriff dies and gains sanity
If deputy shoots townee he loses badge (cop ability)

If farmer picks TS to stay in barn FD (loses ability)gets pregnant and Farmer gains shotgun 1 shot.

If the current MIB is killed before the Postman. They switch roles immedialy prior to the death.

WHAT exactly??

Idk why the link didn't work, but clearly I want you to respond to my questions in Post #852.

[Seanzie]

Can anyone give me links to games to where A50 and Bambi Jay do shit like this as scum or town?

Literally 50% of ANY RANDOM GAMES you pick for either of us (including our known alts)

Off the top of my head I did it to Pooky in a recent game (and he did flip Scum, although it was by mistake since he was Traitor and was shot by his own p)

@Boxxy: Your persistence on "policy eliminations" even though it's D2, and your investigation target simply don't make me happy about you. Let's add that you weren't even on cyrus, and the ONE THING that's holding me from voting you is the fact we have no other PR flips/claims. As soon as a PR does flip I will reevaluate based on the type of power they have (and whether they're gated or not).

Weren't you heavily townreading Boxxy just a little while ago? Did you not think about his target at all before you wrote your reads, revolving specifically around a world where apparently Cyrus/Nom/HEM were all scum targeting Boxxy?

[Seanzie]

Idk why the link didn't work, but clearly I want you to respond to my questions in Post #852.

Too much effort for no gain at all, unless you missed that I changed my mind already

VOTE: Almost50

Idc if you've changed your mind. You should explain yourself. Since you seem to not be able to, I feel like the only logical choice here is that you are just scum.

[Seanzie]

Almost, what Monkey does he got? He's avoiding the question and won't play with me even though he's a "troll" player.

I am letting him play it all out until he hangs himself with his own tail.

FTR, ISO me vs him. See my reaction to his entrance. I may have lightened up a little since, but it doesn't mean I have him as a "clear".

BTW, my Full read list looks like this:

Definitely TOWN

:
Almost50, boxxy, Seanzie, Kerset, Rathe/Bambi Jay

Possibly Town

(have some reservations/paranoia):
Dwlee99, Salsabil Faria

Null:

T3, MaxTheFox

Scummy

:
humaneatingmonkey

SCUM

:
nomnomnom


I'd advise you/anyone to to do a triple-ISO of cyrus/nom/HEM and re-evaluate their reads accordingly.

Like, who votes/pushes boxxy the most? That trio. T3 backed off as soon as he realized the claimed role wasn't what he thought it was. T3's push thus wasn't agenda-y. Who pushed Seenzie (and for what)?? Who finally gave up and voted cyrus?? Scum ARE nom & HEM.

VOTE: 3 noms

This post is extremely bad from Almost50, and they are refusing to talk about it, presumably because they can't explain half the stuff they said here.

[Seanzie]

This is hard but if I need to choose I think Sean must be it.
The biggest tell is that he thought cyrus was scum but never re-addressed that ever after the opening sequence of the thread. And as I said, Cyrus is someone who likes to distance a lot and interact a lot with his partners.
It wouldn't surprise me if these two went on that idea early on. The hardest part about this kind of play is that usually scums can't keep that up and it shows (and it's one of the weaknesses that I noticed when I did a similar play when I was partnered with Vorkuta and we went for an overly dramatic scum theater early game). I just think it makes the most sense.
VOTE: Seanzie

I made Cyrus essentially out himself in my first few posts, then you and HEM destroyed the thread with your Boxxy mindmeld. Throughout that whole process I continued to call Cyrus out, if you were paying attention, and then after Boxxy claimed, HEM was talking to Cyrus, and Cyrus kept just spewing his rolecard all over the thread (I was there for that exchange, and if I was scum with Cyrus, I would have stopped him then and there, because Cyrus' responses were just painful), and so I let HEM do his thing. Then I was afk until y'all hammered, so I dont really see how you can think I wasn't on Cyrus all day.

[Seanzie]

"That's not why I'm scum, I bussed my partner so I deserve towncred."

If you can't see that Cyrus' reaction to me calling him a wolf was genuine, you need to get your eyes check.

[Seanzie]

"That's not why I'm scum, I bussed my partner so I deserve towncred."

If you can't see that Cyrus' reaction to me calling him a wolf was genuine, you need to get your eyes check.

See I can't believe that. Cyrus is not that kind of player. He's actually not that bad of an actor and he's legitimately distanced with his

entire team within his first few posts in previous games.

He also reacted ultra weirdly to you insisting to ask for reads and it felt so fake that it was at that point I started pushing him, and it wouldn't actually surprise me this could have been something scum!you would have planned out with him in a scum pt.

But like... there is a difference between distancing and literally causing someone to out. Like, when you distance, both players try to make themselves look good by looking solvy, and also setting it up in case either one flips. That isn't what happened there. I said something that Cyrus clearly wasn't ready for, and he reacted like a wolf caught for (what he interpreted as) the wrong reasons by town. That isn't distancing.

If anything, you could try to make the case that Cyrus was a planned bus, and so Cyrus intentionally made himself look scummy AF after I called him a wolf, but that takes some mental gymnastics, and would be unnecessary FPS to start that in the first few posts.

[Seanzie]

I said something that Cyrus clearly wasn't ready for, and he reacted like a wolf caught for (what he interpreted as) the wrong reasons by town. That isn't distancing.

If that's the case then why didn't you mention any of this yesterday when this happened?
All I see is that you apologized to him.

In the post that I apologized to him, I literally called him scum? Dude was apparently getting super angry, and in the off chance that it was real and not just AtE, I wasn't going to hard push him, because this is a game that is supposed to be fun.

Like, if you don't see it by now, nothing I can say at this point is going to change your mind.

[Seanzie]

I won't be doing any ISOing today. Remind me tomorrow

But totally off the top of my mind, Seanzie should have done the kill if he was Scum, because he was first to SR cyrus and first to put a serious vote on him.

Like, I think we should look for someone who was quite unlikely to be checked by the Detective to have carried out last night's kill, and then try to ISO them against cyrus

Why do you think Boxxy is town?

[Seanzie]

humaneatingmonkey

nomnomnom

Kerset
MaxTheFox
Bambi Jay
Dwlee99

T3

Salsabil Faria
boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

[Seanzie]

I won't be doing any ISOing today. Remind me tomorrow

But totally off the top of my mind, Seanzie should have done the kill if he was Scum, because he was first to SR cyrus and first to put a serious vote on him.

Like, I think we should look for someone who was quite unlikely to be checked by the Detective to have carried out last night's kill, and then try to ISO them against cyrus

Why do you think Boxxy is town?

Counter question: How many PRs do you think Town has?

Also here's a hint: Did you know Open Setups that allow Mafia to pick their own roles/modifications start with 2 TPRs and then one more for each Scum PR selected? Example: Stack The Deck. Also if Scum are allowed to pick TOWN powers then Town starts with THREE TPRs vs 3 Goons. Example: Pick Your Poison

Now please keep that in mind when you try to guess how many PRs this Town has.

You refuse to answer my questions, but you expect me to answer yours? I'm willing to engage with you in an equal-exchange discussion, but so far you don't seem willing to do that.

This question also could be rolefishing, so sorry, not biting. Answer my questions. Once you do that, I might be willing to answer one of yours.

[Seanzie]

humaneatingmonkey

nomnomnom

Kerset
MaxTheFox
Bambi Jay
Dwlee99

T3

Salsabil Faria
boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

Can you explain this readlist, please?? Mainly, why is your name at the very bottom??

That's where I always put my name, in nice dark black. The first time I did it was to see if scum would jump on it as a chance to try to shade me for it. To date, you are the first person to ask about it and uh... I don't feel good about you.

[Seanzie]

The way Boxxy answered to people thinking that targeting Sean n1 was a horrible play is also weird. You'd think someone who is a PR and is told their target is a horrible choice would give a reasoning as to why they targeted Sean here. But that's not how he answered the question at all, and he actually still hasn't addressed that.
A likely explanation for this move is that scums could know Sean's role through a PR and whatnot, and claim something that is easily confirmed by town!sean.
The answer is in Sean/Salsabil/Boxxy. I am 100% convinced of this. To me it's a matter of where the scum is more likely to be, and where we gain the more information.

How are you clearing Almost50? If he is telling the truth about his role, he literally nerfed himself completely since the second scum can just shoot tonight, and then he is just VT. He doesn't look like a novice, so it makes no sense him doing that as town.

[Seanzie]

How are you clearing Almost50?

Who said I did?
While you are here, I'm actually curious

humaneatingmonkey

nomnomnom

Kerset
MaxTheFox
Bambi Jay
Dwlee99

T3

Salsabil Faria
boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

I wanna know why you isolated T3 there.

T3 has done very little, and has done nothing that has made me think that he is town, whereas I have had at least some good feelings about everyone above T3. On the other hand, he has done so little that I also couldn't really make a case that he is scum, but everyone below him I can point to specific things that make them >rand!scum.

[Seanzie]

How are you clearing Almost50?

Who said I did?

While you are here, I'm actually curious

humaneatingmonkey

nomnomnom

Kerset
MaxTheFox
Bambi Jay
Dwlee99

T3

Salsabil Faria
boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

I wanna know why you isolated T3 there.

Sorry, I forgot to respond to this. You did essentially when you said you were 100% convinced of your PoE of Salsabil, Boxxy and me.

[Seanzie]

How are you clearing Almost50?

Who said I did?
While you are here, I'm actually curious

humaneatingmonkey

nomnomnom

Kerset
MaxTheFox
Bambi Jay
Dwlee99

T3

Salsabil Faria
boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

I wanna know why you isolated T3 there.

T3 has done very little, and has done nothing that has made me think that he is town, whereas I have had at least some good feelings about everyone above T3. On the other hand, he has done so little that I also couldn't really make a case that he is scum, but everyone below him I can point to specific things that make them >rand!scum.

Glad you clarified.
VOTE: Sean
I think you represent the kind of textbook scum who is more interested in trying to cast shade on the most people you can, rather than actually solving.
In fact, the very fact that Kyouko being one of your very few townleans on day1 speaks volumes as to kyouko dying.
It also puts a big question mark on most of your posts on day 1 asking for a bunch of people their townreads, while having essentially none yourself.

Yehhh... you aren't reading my posts, are you? I had given multiple townleans and no one else had given any before I asked that question?

[Seanzie]

You refuse to answer my questions, but you expect me to answer yours? I'm willing to engage with you in an equal-exchange discussion, but so far you don't seem willing to do that.

This question also could be rolefishing, so sorry, not biting. Answer my questions. Once you do that, I might be willing to answer one of yours.

Really clever of you! *Smirk*

Anyone -else- would see that I did provide an answer and supported it with evidence too. In a NORMAL GAME, a 13 players setup has AT LEAST 2 TPRs. That's the mastina part. The Ircher part "could" hint more than 2 TPRs (Ircher leans towards PR rich setups). But let's not meta the designers/reviewers, so I'll stick with 2 as the bare minimum.

Quote posts where you answer my questions please.

[Seanzie]

That's where I always put my name, in nice dark black.

Citation needed.

Here is a town game I did it:

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 31#p798631

Here is a scum game I did it:

https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 58#p767658

Here is a town game where I actually did it in white? Didn't realize I ever did that before:

https://www.mafiacafe.net/forum/standar ... #post13909

[Seanzie]

Yehhh... you aren't reading my posts, are you? I had given multiple townleans and no one else had given any before I asked that question?

Unfortunately I have. Multiple times even. I've mostly ISO checked people a big majority of today

Well considering that you seemed to miss all my posts about Cyrus and all my townleans, I'mma say you need to read more carefully.

[Seanzie]

Almost, what Monkey does he got? He's avoiding the question and won't play with me even though he's a "troll" player.

I am letting him play it all out until he hangs himself with his own tail.

FTR, ISO me vs him. See my reaction to his entrance. I may have lightened up a little since, but it doesn't mean I have him as a "clear".

BTW, my Full read list looks like this:

Definitely TOWN

:
Almost50, boxxy, Seanzie, Kerset, Rathe/Bambi Jay

Possibly Town

(have some reservations/paranoia):
Dwlee99, Salsabil Faria

Null:

T3, MaxTheFox

Scummy

:
humaneatingmonkey

SCUM

:
nomnomnom


I'd advise you/anyone to to do a triple-ISO of cyrus/nom/HEM and re-evaluate their reads accordingly.

Like, who votes/pushes boxxy the most? That trio.

T3 backed off as soon as he realized the claimed role wasn't what he thought it was. T3's push thus wasn't agenda-y.

Who pushed Seenzie (and for what)??

Who

finally gave up

and voted cyrus?? Scum ARE nom & HEM.

VOTE: 3 noms

It seems like your whole worldview is premised on the idea that Boxxy is town. Why do you think that? I think that is a very dubious assumption.

You think Cyrus pushed Boxxy with any sort of seriousness? Can you please provide evidence for this?

Actually, it was me pushing HEM, not HEM pushing me. And after going back and forth with HEM, I felt good about hem. While there were some issues with how his original case was presented, he was able to further explain and his case on Boxxy had depth, and pointed out some things that IMO very likely point to Scum!Boxxy.

Please tell me about HEM and Cyrus's interactions. I'd like to see how you are coming to the conclusion that they are likely teamed.

Finally gave up? What exactly were they giving up? If you think the team is Cyrus/Nom/HEM, then that is 3 out of the 7 votes on Cyrus, so Cyrus wouldn't have been in immediate danger, so I don't see how you could be concluding that the team just gave up on saving Cyrus.

I'm still waiting on Almost50 to respond to these questions. His readslist here is way out of whack with my perception of this game, and him trying to tie Cyrus/nom/HEM together here is extremely bad. He makes claims about interactions that just didn't happen (when exactly did Cyrus push Boxxy? When did HEM push me?). Y'all need to check his work. He is refusing to engage with me, and you all are letting him just get away with this.

[Seanzie]

boxxy is blatant town.

How so? Can you give me any reason to think so?

[Seanzie]

boxxy is blatant town.

How so? Can you give me any reason to think so?

Roaming Detective is not a claim that comes from scum on the spot, especially newer scum.

Any reasonable scum team prepares fakeclaims in advance. Even if Boxxy is newer (is this true? I don't know anyone here, so idk how long Boxxy has been playing), one person on the scum team being not new would help the rest make sure they're reading for a claim situation.

Aside from the claim, is there any reason to think Boxxy is town? If it is there, I'd like to find it.

[Seanzie]

Uhh... what are the rules on this site about mentioning things from ongoing games? Like, I know clearly people in those games can't talk about them directly, but if I have something that I just found in an ongoing game that is relevant to this game, can I share that?

[Seanzie]

Uhh... what are the rules on this site about mentioning things from ongoing games?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30908

Thanks. I will not share then.

[Seanzie]

Seanzie, how did I become your top townread over nomnomnom?

Working with you yesterday, the way you were pushing Boxxy, it had very clear agenda. At first I thought it was scum agenda, but then as I engaged with you, I could tell that your agenda was town trying to get their scumread elim'd agenda. Also, while your original case had holes in it, once I actually talked to you, it was clear your read on Boxxy had substance.

Also, Cyrus spewed both of us town at some point while we were fighting about Boxxy, and then the way you engaged with Cyrus about Boxxy's claim was very clearly not teamed with Cyrus. Then I think you hammered him? Like, if you're scum here, you are a cold hearted monkey.

Nom in general has been good, but her whole "I have a scumtell on Cyrus, and I'm going to talk a lot about it but not share it" left a very bad taste in my mouth, it did nothing but distract the thread, so I'm not as confident about Nom as I am about you. They also have been going a bit further downhill since because their recent push on me does not feel good, but I still think they are >rand!town, just maybe paranoid about a new person.

[Seanzie]

At first I thought it was scum agenda, but then as I engaged with you, I could tell that your agenda was town trying to get their scumread elim'd agenda. Also, while your original case had holes in it, once I actually talked to you, it was clear your read on Boxxy had substance.

What made you flip your reads from scum agenda to town agenda?

What were the holes in my original case?

What made it clear that my read had substance?

The fact that as I pushed you, it was clear your case had more depth than the one presented in thread.

I went over that in pretty fine detail yesterday. You misrepresented and oversimplified some stuff Boxxy had said and done. I do that too sometimes when I'm hardtunneling a strong scumread.

As I pushed you about your reads, you were able to communicate your thoughts and reasons. For example, at some point, you pointed out that Boxxy flipped from giving you a scumread to a townread, and you knew that you were only shitposting before that. This was a very good point, and while it isn't impossible for scum to fake, usually scum doesn't jump on people for giving them townreads. There were other examples that as I engaged with you, it was clear that your thoughts ran deeper than your original simplified case.

[Seanzie]

her whole "I have a scumtell on Cyrus, and I'm going to talk a lot about it but not share it" left a very bad taste in my mouth, it did nothing but distract the thread, so I'm not as confident about Nom as I am about you.

why does it make you lean that behavior as scum if cyrus flipped scum anyway?

It was performative and distracting the thread from scumhunting. It isn't necessarily scum-indicative, but it was anti-town. Also, it could have had scum-motive. Namely, it distances from Cyrus without actually giving anyone else a reason to scumread Cyrus, and if Scum!Nom eventually had to bus Cyrus, they could use that as justification, rather than actually having to case their teammate. IDK what sort of player Nom is though, so I'm not reading too much into this, but I know I didn't like it when it happened.

This was actually what caused a lot of my original resistance to yours and Nom's case on Boxxy. Nom was pushing Boxxy because Boxxy didn't like Nom's play with the "scumtell", and I personally agreed with Boxxy there. Nom also made up some BS to Dwlee about how Boxxy was scummy for questioning Nom about it, but Dwlee was towny, just because Boxxy had outed a scumread of Cyrus but Dwlee hadn't. Since I was scumreading Cyrus and also finding Nom's scumtell thing bad, that didn't sit well with me.

[Seanzie]

What was so good about my play, by the way? I'm curious.

In general I've gotten good vibes from you. Your early suspicion of me seemed very natural and coming from a scumhunting mindset. Once I sorted through the case on Boxxy, I agreed that he was likely scum, so you are mostly pushing in directions that make sense to me. Including your current PoE, which I agree with 2/3 names. While your play towards Cyrus isn't fully clearing you two as teammates, I do think it is more likely not teamed than teamed. Your push on me today has been shit, your scumslip thing wasn't great and the way you and Monkey derailed the thread was not great for threadhealth, but otherwise your play has looked good to me.

[Seanzie]

What was so good about my play, by the way? I'm curious.

Can you tell me about Almost50? I asked you about them earlier, and you didn't really answer. Why do you see them as town? If I am wrong about them, I'd like to know.

[Seanzie]

What was so good about my play, by the way? I'm curious.

Can you tell me about Almost50? I asked you about them earlier, and you didn't really answer. Why do you see them as town? If I am wrong about them, I'd like to know.

I didn't say they were town. I said where I wanted to vote.
There are worlds where A50 is scum, definitely. But even if that's the case, I largely think it's irrelevant in my solve here. At least one of you/Salsabil/Boxxy is scum. That is all I know and all I care about, really.

Oh, I thought you were saying you were 100% sure that all scum were in {me, Salsabil, Boxxy}.

Do people normally not work with each other here? I've been like asking for people to talk to me about reads, and I swear it is like pulling teeth. I don't know how to play this game if I can work with people to get a read on them and for them to help me get a read on others. You're like the 4th person I've tried to engage with and you just don't even seem interested in trying to share thoughts and collectively worldbuild. This is a team game, y'know.

[Seanzie]

This is a team game, y'know.

Correct, and I believe you're not on my team. Why should I collaborate with you?

Working with people helps you develop your reads on them and on others. Since you're not right about all three people in your PoE, working with them can help you figure out who is most likely scum and who you might be wrong about. If you don't see the clear town benefit of working with others, idk what to tell you, other than in general it is bad play to just refuse to work with others unless they are outed.

[Seanzie]

I just read through Salsabil's ISO, and came out feeling a lot less confident about my scumread. Early D1, they did a few things that really pinged me, but now looking back, it looks like were thinking critically around the Boxxy wagon, and their pushes on Cyrus look good. Apparently they distance a lot as scum, so I'm going to take their Cyrus interactions with a grain of salt. There was one post that caught my eye that kind of looked like a slip, but given the language barrier, I'm loathe to read into it. If it wasn't a slip, it was actually a pretty reasonable post that seemed to wanted to sort ssbm. Kerset made a good point though that Salsabil seemed to be asking a lot of questions without much followup.

So, I'm moving Salsabil out of my immediate PoE, into my upper PoE.

[Seanzie]

so now that thats done as i said boxy isnt lieing. so check monkey to see why he wanted to lynch a pr.

i wouldn't lynch nom they anit scum regardless

pushing boxxy is a bad idea move on. im sure you guys can do it.

fatia isnt scum trust me.

It's WIFOM-y, but I don't cyrus puts attention on his scumteam on his way out the door here. Knowing what these posts will look like after he flips, I see him doing a basic play of trying to put attention on some random town players. I'm willing to think these players are town for the time being.


Also unrelated but

Box is kind of player with old account, empty hole and claims to be playing offside.

I never claimed to be playing offsite. There's a hole in my account cause I wasn't playing.

I also think that with cyrus drawing the attention he was, scum would bus to build a bit of towncred. That's why I targetted seanzie last night.

Reading Dwlee99 in iso, I don't like it. He seems a little too agreeable in how he joins up with powertown monkey/nom.

Goes from really liking my play

let's do boxxy guys. it's a good wagon

This is a super weird take?

I've liked boxxy's posting a lot.

I'm still trying to figure out nom though. I don't know if nom withholding the tell is inherently scummy but I'd really like to hear it if it's going to be justifying a scum read this early especially when it feels like cyrus town-slipped.

To joining the wagon once it had momentum but the content had not changed.

Okay, I've read over that interaction and I see what you're talking about now. I wish boxxy was here to respond and give some updates but I feel like him not is kind of by his own design.

VOTE: boxxy

Finally he hammers cyrus once it was a foregone conclusion. It just feels a bit too much like trying not to be objectionable and make friends with powertown.

VOTE: Dwlee99

Can you explain this please?

[Seanzie]

I want to let boxxy live but his recent posts kinda reek of scum.

Do you have any other reads?

[Seanzie]

I read through most people's ISOS to help me sort them, and this is what I came up with:

humaneatingmonkey

Kerset
nomnomnom

Dwlee99

Bambi Jay

MaxTheFox
T3
Salsabil Faria

boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

[Seanzie]

Quick post before bed after catching up, just to answer a few questions thrown my way.

As T3 mentioned I am fairly new, I played a few games years ago, and just got back into it with a game a week or so again.

I chose seanzie for my target because I was fairly confident cyrus had be bussed, so I picked a more or less random choice from that wagon. Nom/HEM's push felt organic, the rest of the wagon didn't have much content except seanzie who had parked his vote there early and never returned. I didn't have the

@Seanzie what do you want me to explain, that whole post is explanation. I can outline it again tomorrow in more detail if you don't follow or if you have any specific questions please share.

Specifically how you thought I was bussing. Like, was your theory that Cyrus was a planned bus since post 1? Usually bussers jump on nearish the end of a wagon and push loud and hard to get as much towncred as possible. I was first on the wagon and was afk when Cyrus got hammered.

[Seanzie]

How y'all can't see that I'm oozing towniness out of all of my orifices is beyond me.

I've given more thoughts than like 3/4 of the playerslist, I pushed the game out of fluff almost immediately, I outed Cyrus, I've backed up my reads with thoughts and questions throughout, and y'all still don't see it?

Kerset's case is NK analysis.

Nom's case is purely based on how others have acted around me.

T3 idk what the whole psych thing is? (Is it that I noticed that Almost50 softed novice psychologist, and so him claiming a result made no sense? Or is it that you're just jumping on Nom?)

HEM's case is the only one that actually has anything to do with me that I can see, and 1.) me pulling the game out of fluff giving overly confident early reads is >rand!town, and 2.) Nom had shown a depth of thought towards me early on that warranted a stronger townlean than others.

So, lots of bad reasons here, and lemme guess, y'all are going to happily hammer me, and then everyone will be like "oh how did that happen?" because y'all didn't bother to actually PUSH ANYONE FOR READS OR THOUGHTS OR EXPLANATIONS WITH ANY SORT OF DEPTH.

If you want to hammer me, I strongly recommend making everyone who is voting me make a case against me so you actually have something to work off of tomorrow. Failing that though, at least give me a chance to claim and prepare some legacy reads.

[Seanzie]

Intent to hammer.

what is your case on sean?

What is YOUR case on Sean? Purely NK analysis? Do you have any actual gameplay reasons to suspect me?

[Seanzie]

I enjoy playing both town and scum. I like gambiting a lot as either alignment. I also tend to go very hard to see how people react, but will stop and take a step back to re-evaluate often so that I don't get too confbias-y with my pushes or clears.

Sean, what happened to this player? I haven't seen him in this game.

Really? I went hard on you D1 and I came out of it with a confident townread. Other players have more-or-less refused to engage with me, so idk what to do with that. I've never seen a more uncooperative group of players in my life.

[Seanzie]

I hate to break it to you but NKA and associative tells are actually a very big part of scumhunting

I don't disagree, but they are only one piece of a larger puzzle. When I play scum I purposefully set up false associatives with people in town so that if I ever flip, they become suspects. I have to guess that there are scum players here capable of the same thing, so when you see that the associations are one-sided, you should take them with a grain of salt.

[Seanzie]

If that was hammer, wow, good job. Y'all are like... REALLY bad at this game.

I'm combined bodyguard hider (or whatever it is called). I'm essentially a bodyguard with an unlimited vest. I severely doubt we have two investigative since my role is kind of way OP (granted they are nerfed roles, but still, seems way too townsided).

Almost50 knew I was PT. He fished for it, and could tell I was suspicious of him and Boxxy because I was PT.

Nom's cases have been just bad. They've plummetted on my reads list.

T3 should be policy elimed at this point if they aren't giving any thoughts and double-vote hammering clear town.

The rest of you... really need to learn good play. This was one of the worst mafia experiences I have ever had, and honestly if this is typical play for this site, I might just move on.

[Seanzie]

Like seriously, how y'all decided to hammer one of the top contributors is beyond me. Like I get I was new, but if you just look at my damn ISO, I'd have to be ultra-wolf in order to fake the level of thought and clear towniness. Every step of the way I tried to help town, but NOOO, people make up BS cases that aren't grounded in reality, and the rest of you don't even bother to look at what they're saying, and just jump on it.

[Seanzie]

Imagine thinking doublevoter is a normal role.

Imagine being condescending to someone who isn't from this site because they don't know this site's customs.

[Seanzie]

Seriously though, if that wasn't hammer, I'm literally almost tempted to self-hammer, because I really am done with this game.

I'mma step away for a few minutes though and cool off before I do anything rash or say anything too mean.

[Seanzie]

When you say PT with Almost, do you just mean Private thread, or are you using it for some other term. I ask since your not usually playing here. Cuz for some reason I think your using it for something like Protective Town. Usually here or in ToS it's Town Protective (TP).

PT = powertown. Like non-VT. Idk what y'all's abbreviation for that his. I don't think Almost50 guessed that I was specifically protective. I actually was kind of trying to goad him into thinking I was PT when he was rolefishing so that scum would shoot me. It was a delicate balance of "how do I look like I'm PT without looking like I'm trying to look like I'm Pt?"

[Seanzie]

Good game all!

Congrats scum! Especially Dwlee, I think you did very well here.

Thanks a lot OutWorldER for the game, you were a great host, VC's and PM replies were very quick, which is always appreciated.

Thanks everyone. Sorry I was a bit of a butt about being TK'd.