mini normal 2226; who won

[Gamma Emerald]

First!

You weren’t first though, T3 was
VOTE: Seanzie
Lim all Liars

[Gamma Emerald]

First!

You weren’t first though, T3 was
VOTE: Seanzie
Lim all Liars

How have you been? It's been a while.

I’ve been alright

[Gamma Emerald]

What changed?

You posted more.

What about it was scummy?

[Gamma Emerald]

What changed?

You posted more.

What about it was scummy?

Good question. Instead of entering with jokes or RVS, Alchemist seems to want to be friends with everyone.

Except I definitely entered with a joke and an RVS.

Welp my vote is serious now

[Gamma Emerald]

Welp my vote is serious now

How serious are you right now?

Um, pretty serious?
I don’t get the point of the question

[Gamma Emerald]

while it's far from the first time i get some suspicion my way for my tone of speaking, i do kind of expect better from someone who's already played a few games with me.

Let me have bad reads in peace.

no

[Gamma Emerald]

if flubber was reacting to something that wasn't rvs, then flubber's own post can't have been rvs either, right? so why are you suspecting umlaut for taking flubber's "rvs" interaction too seriously?

VOTE: t3

I already responded to this. Also, I think Titus's 'mindmeld' is towny.

You seem like you’re spouting bs mate

[Gamma Emerald]

you're free to elaborate.

The weird mindmeld dancing around on umlaut.

if flubber was reacting to something that wasn't rvs, then flubber's own post can't have been rvs either, right? so why are you suspecting umlaut for taking flubber's "rvs" interaction too seriously?

VOTE: t3

I already responded to this. Also, I think Titus's 'mindmeld' is towny.

This doesn’t mesh imo

[Gamma Emerald]

Um, pretty serious?
I don’t get the point of the question

"welp"

and

"my vote is serious now"

feel like dissonance to me.

so I'm asking for a clarification on how serious you feel about this.

well, it wasn't an RVS vote anymore, but like, I'd consider myself a silly person
that good?

[Gamma Emerald]

IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTE;
There are exactly three players in this game that have access to private topics.

This has been on my mind a bit, but have mods recently started putting info like this in their rulesets? This was an oddly specific detail to include and if there’s a neighborhood it means there’s a guaranteed scum in there.

I had the sense to check on it, it's only valid for the start of the game

[Gamma Emerald]

IMPORTANT SPECIAL NOTE;
There are exactly three players in this game that have access to private topics.

This has been on my mind a bit, but have mods recently started putting info like this in their rulesets? This was an oddly specific detail to include and if there’s a neighborhood it means there’s a guaranteed scum in there.

That would leave 2 scum for the entire game if one town was in a neighborhood at the start of the game.

2 scum + a traitor?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm guessing BTSC means behind-the-scenes chat?

[Gamma Emerald]

A non-ridiculous reading is "there is something in Alchemist's posts that Seanzie didn't like and he's being coy about what exactly" and not "posting = bad," and I have a hard time believing the latter is really what you thought he meant even for a second.

More votes on Flub plz

so I don't think seanzie is literally scumreading someone for posting more. I think they're trying to manufacture a push and doing it poorly. so the only thing they could shade alchemist for was "posting". seems like I'm right too, because in elaborating, they're now saying things that are just...wrong

What do you think of my idea that Seanzie may have been testing to see who would try defending/pocketing me?

That's a 400iq strat that people don't do.

I think you just got disproven

[Gamma Emerald]

Meh.

Bad opening, and the few posts that follow feel like he’s trying to put on an

outraged “you guys don’t see this!?”

act with everyone.

Why is this scummy in your opinion? I often get frustrated when I feel like I see something and others aren't paying attention.

seconded

I feel like Vulture is swooping in like a Vulture

I can see this

[Gamma Emerald]

Lukewarm feels like town for the pressure on Aristela

[Gamma Emerald]

I imagine he'd be more restrained rather than just randomly blurting things out.


I'm going to pretend you have no doubts about me because I'm not sure my gentle heart could handle it.

hrm

[Gamma Emerald]

I get somewhat anxious when I play these types of games and when I read your first post and saw that winking face, a sense of warmth just washed over me and I felt so safe in that moment.

I feel like I can trust you and you will protect me from all the evils in this world.

Am I wrong?

I think I might know who you are, but I’ll keep your secret if you want.

Spoiler:

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma, use your words please

If I have something substantial on that subject I will

[Gamma Emerald]

Datisis feels town to me.

Now that Flubber has explained more, I think their thought process seems genuine, even thought I disagree with their conclusions.

I am not liking that Aristeia keeps asking other people before she votes/unvotes, like she is absolving herself of her votes.

VOTE: Aristeia

I had the same thought. I get the feeling Ari might need to give me a cookie.

I don’t think Aristeia is that person
I think I’ve encountered Aristeia in the stream chat of a certain pink circular creature who may be just a little skinny

[Gamma Emerald]

was there a point in posting 209 then?

Announcing I’m thinking about that subject?

[Gamma Emerald]

FYI I’m specifically saying “hrm” on the subject of T3

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma, use your words please

If I have something substantial on that subject I will

So I think I can elaborate what I was thinking
I’m pretty sure T3 actually

would

blurt stuff out randomly as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you object to my observation?

[Gamma Emerald]

why do I suddenly feel very out-of-touch?

[Gamma Emerald]

anyone have questions for me?

[Gamma Emerald]

this entire page kinda
I don't feel like any of the topics being discussed are ones I can really add valuable input to

[Gamma Emerald]

this entire page kinda
I don't feel like any of the topics being discussed are ones I can really add valuable input to

You could start one of your own. Any reads you feel really strongly about?

I think Aristeia is probably town

[Gamma Emerald]

this entire page kinda
I don't feel like any of the topics being discussed are ones I can really add valuable input to

You could start one of your own. Any reads you feel really strongly about?

I think Aristeia is probably town

Ok. Can you go into detail about why?

in general I think her approach is town, and if I'm right about who she is I'd probably be thrice as sure

[Gamma Emerald]

Is my vote not a comment on what I think of the wagon?

not as much as saying "I am on this wagon for xyz reasoning"

[Gamma Emerald]

If everyone is jumping off, why would I be so desperate as scum to keep on here? Wouldn't this draw attention to me as it has?

Is there a way you can put your point here that isn't written out as a question?

[Gamma Emerald]

btw I just realized ChaosOmega's avatar is supposed to be a cloaked figure
for the longest time I thought it was a turtle's head

[Gamma Emerald]

gimme a sec
why the vote tho?

[Gamma Emerald]

Before I post my reasons for TRing Aristeia, I have a bit of an odd question for Datisi:
Would you rather be a one-shot bulletproof or one-shot vigilante?

[Gamma Emerald]

Um, pretty serious?
I don’t get the point of the question

"welp"

and

"my vote is serious now"

feel like dissonance to me.

so I'm asking for a clarification on how serious you feel about this.

Doesn't mean I am willing to let them just avoid having any reads of their own

what would you like to talk about?

Both of these posts feel like real attempts to reach out to me + Lukewarm

I get somewhat anxious when I play these types of games and when I read your first post and saw that winking face, a sense of warmth just washed over me and I felt so safe in that moment.

I feel like I can trust you and you will protect me from all the evils in this world.

Am I wrong?

This post I feel like is town because despite having a lot of text that feels flowery, when I think about it, the post content feels pretty grounded in the context of the game. Here’s where my question to Datisi comes in, because I’m

pretty sure

he was in Guns and Roses V under one of the Gun/Rose accounts (they were literally named that, albeit with accents on a vowel), and the Rose account was pressured a bit for posts that felt like purely role play content, but some people actually managed to read actual content through it. That’s the vibe I get from Aristeia here: trying to roleplay, but also trying to make earnest effort within the game while doing so.

[Gamma Emerald]

1) idk if that’s even the right term tbh, what I’m saying is despite being more poetic-sounding, the contents of 195 feel just as game-relevant as anything else. To put it in a poetic perspective, we write our thoughts in the dirt, while Aristeia writes hers in the clouds.
2) because you and Menalque played in EISAL 2 on a hydra that was titled “a Gun and a Rose”, and you both weren’t in G&R V on your mains
3) Because I would figure you’d see where I’m coming from better.

[Gamma Emerald]

1) I think there’s a bit of subtle meaning in the post that you’re just not gonna get, which IMO is fine, I don’t think you’re SRing Aristeia anyway. Do you at least get where I’m coming from though?

3) yeah Rose was the town one, Gun was scum. I’d probably have to deep-dove that game to get more detailed but iirc there were differences in how each of them played that made Rose evidently town and Gun evidently scum. I think it boiled down to how much it looked like each one was trying to look useful.

Btw I’m not really on board with the ChaosOmega suspicions atm, to broach a different subject

[Gamma Emerald]

Before I post my reasons for TRing Aristeia, I have a bit of an odd question for Datisi:
Would you rather be a one-shot bulletproof or one-shot vigilante?

Oh, I know what's going on.

Oh do you now?
Do you have another mask I’m not yet aware of, phantom?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d simply guess he thinks it’s some ploy within this game, but if that’s not it, then that’s when things get weird

[Gamma Emerald]

What were you thinking it was T3?

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw don’t mind the avatar change too much, I’d been meaning to change it for a while and figured at least for a little bit to adapt to what my present company seems to be.

[Gamma Emerald]

I shouldn't say.

How so? The more you evade, the more I’ll be convinced of my own picture of the situation, and trust me, it wouldn’t be a good one for you.

[Gamma Emerald]

So I think what I thought was going on is not going on and is something completely different that doesn't involve this game at all.

You thought it had importance once, now let the rest of us decide.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Meg why is your vote still on Titus?

[Gamma Emerald]

Fair enough, but don’t be lying, I expect clarification when the time is right.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yep, like I said that was shortly after I had first read through the game, and I am a firm believer in having someone voted at all times (except limlo and similar scenarios) because it can generate discussion (which it already has) titus doesn't really have a chance of being limmed today anyway so why would I move it? In the end it is at worst pointless.

First off: why do you say Titus isn’t getting limmed today? Second, while moving your vote too much can result in the vote meaning less, I think not moving it can be as much of a problem. It makes it hard to trust that what is said matches what is done.

[Gamma Emerald]

After a meta skim on Datisi I'm comfortable locktowning him.

VOTE: T3
You should know not to try this around me
The vote only comes off if a satisfactory explanation is given as to why and how this happened.

[Gamma Emerald]

After a meta skim on Datisi I'm comfortable locktowning him.

VOTE: T3
You should know not to try this around me
The vote only comes off if a satisfactory explanation is given as to why and how this happened.

istg i had a wall on this and it was my first wall i've ever posted and my internet crashed as i was submitting it

I’ll believe it, but I’d like to see some trace of it before I move my vote

[Gamma Emerald]

So I think what I thought was going on is not going on and is something completely different that doesn't involve this game at all.

You thought it had importance once, now let the rest of us decide.

It will become clear later.

How much longer is later exactly?

After some flips.

I don’t like this answer. You were wrong about what you saw but you still won’t explain what you were thinking this Day phase?

VOTE: T3

jBasically, I either am a role that Gamma mentioned, or am a role that implies one of the roles Gamma mentioned, or I know by some mechanism through other players breadcrumbing or me being informed at the start. I thought Gamma was breadcrumbing or something of the sort, so I wanted to give him indication I was aware of what he was talking about. I then flipped to the next page and found a completely different explanation than what I was expecting.
k?

This also tracks I think
It kinda feels like how he acted in Mini 2213, but less shady, as ludicrous as it seems

[Gamma Emerald]

it was pretty obvious that t3 was trying to get out of having to say something about mech and i'm hmm at alchemist trying to force the issue >_>

i still wanna see the wall on my meta, though.

It’s the only acceptable answer he could have given, but to call attention to the post then try to sweep it under the rug instead of giving their thoughts looked more like scum going “shit I fucked up and this looks bad, let’s hope they forget about it and it goes away.”

I’ve seen T3!scum do something like this, I don’t think is it

[Gamma Emerald]

So I think what I thought was going on is not going on and is something completely different that doesn't involve this game at all.

You thought it had importance once, now let the rest of us decide.

It will become clear later.

How much longer is later exactly?

After some flips.

I don’t like this answer. You were wrong about what you saw but you still won’t explain what you were thinking this Day phase?

VOTE: T3

jBasically, I either am a role that Gamma mentioned, or am a role that implies one of the roles Gamma mentioned, or I know by some mechanism through other players breadcrumbing or me being informed at the start. I thought Gamma was breadcrumbing or something of the sort, so I wanted to give him indication I was aware of what he was talking about. I then flipped to the next page and found a completely different explanation than what I was expecting.
k?

This also tracks I think
It kinda feels like how he acted in Mini 2213, but less shady, as ludicrous as it seems

Are you saying he’s acting less shady now than in a previous Town game?

Than in a scum game

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I’m satisfied with that explanation.
VOTE: MegAzumarill
I think she’s scum based on her way she’s parked her vote on Titus

Btw, just because it was a troll alt doesn’t mean the play isn’t comparable.

[Gamma Emerald]

I will admit my reason for calling attention to it was kinda petty

[Gamma Emerald]

still shelfing this as Town For Effort for now because idk why scum!t3 does this. i feel like i've heard somewhere that scum!t3 likes to do townreads on townies but this feels a bit unnecessary. idk.

I agree with you, scum very rarely metadive anyone because they have no need to and don’t feel like spending the energy reading other games.

Yup, and the one time I’ve seen scum actually seemingly put in an effort, it was clearly a load of bunk

[Gamma Emerald]

still shelfing this as Town For Effort for now because idk why scum!t3 does this. i feel like i've heard somewhere that scum!t3 likes to do townreads on townies but this feels a bit unnecessary. idk.

The town read thing I think is more that Scum!T3 just does not give his partners town reads. In the 4 or so t3 scum games I have looked at, the best his partners have ever gotten was null I believe.

But yeah, I cannot imagine scum!T3 going to this much effort to make a town read, when he could just as easily just call you a gut town read, or agree with my reasons that I just gave, or come up with something else from this game. Digging into 3 of your past games and counting the number of times you quote people in each seems like a lot of wasted effort for scum!T3.

There was one time he gave a partner a townread but it was for “meta reasons” which was why the unexplained Datisi meta TR made me insta-vote him

[Gamma Emerald]

After a meta skim on Datisi I'm comfortable locktowning him.

VOTE: T3
You should know not to try this around me
The vote only comes off if a satisfactory explanation is given as to why and how this happened.

T3 literally metaed the fuck out of a lurker and I coasted on that to get town to a 3p lylo where I blew it but still I trust his meta

I am reluctant but ok with no Umlaut today. Ari I'd vote those toxic posts away.

Toxic how?

[Gamma Emerald]

Probably disregard the other quote, I think my previous posts speak better in response to that than what I’d want to say currently

[Gamma Emerald]

After a meta skim on Datisi I'm comfortable locktowning him.

I'm ok with

Datisti Gamma T3 Lukewarm Flubber all being town.

All the people above, please suggest my tier 2 townies tyia

I also think Aristeia should be in the not-elimming pool for today
Not entirely sure whether Flubber deserves to be in the inner circle but I’ll probably leave it be for now

btw wrt the pagetop wars, I’m a bit surprised I haven’t gotten one on accident yet

[Gamma Emerald]

Also would add Alchemist to the D1 pass group, looking over Luke’s list

[Gamma Emerald]

Has Chaos been around recently?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I think it’s just quiet sitewide

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello MethBlade!

MonkaS

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe scum don’t have a PT and have a discord instead? I have played a smaller game where this was the case. Reading that in the OP made me think what if no scum have a PT at all and made me want to join to see if this is the case.

This would be a shit move to pull imo

[Gamma Emerald]

Datisis feels town to me.

Now that Flubber has explained more, I think their thought process seems genuine, even thought I disagree with their conclusions.

I am not liking that Aristeia keeps asking other people before she votes/unvotes, like she is absolving herself of her votes.

VOTE: Aristeia

I had the same thought. I get the feeling Ari might need to give me a cookie.

I don’t think Aristeia is that person
I think I’ve encountered Aristeia in the stream chat of a certain pink circular creature who may be just a little skinny

How about both of you quit alt hunting/outing and start/go back to scum hunting?

I think Aristeia is likely scum but trying to out them to get an advantage whatever your alignment is a jerk move.

I’m not trying to get an advantage, outside of potentially confirming my theory, which would let me essentially locktown Aristeia

[Gamma Emerald]

MathBlade is worrying me here

[Gamma Emerald]

I wanted to give Chaos time to maybe town up and I don’t think he’s really done so, so I won’t stand the way of a wagon on him.

[Gamma Emerald]

Maybe scum don’t have a PT and have a discord instead? I have played a smaller game where this was the case. Reading that in the OP made me think what if no scum have a PT at all and made me want to join to see if this is the case.

This would be a shit move to pull imo

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73980

It’s really not. It just has to be planned for and balanced around.

Mafia is defined as an informed minority vs an informed majority.

In that game I was scum so I am weary of weird setups because I have seen them.

There’s nothing in the normal rules that I could find where scum have to have a PT.

In a normal game, saying there are three people “in a PT” but using Discord as a workaround is like, such sticking dickhead troll move any mod who pulled it would be boo’ed off the fucking site

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think assuming scum has a pt is some massive slip

I never said it was.

My main job as town is to consider all possible options. Having seen prior games where scum didn’t have a PT I didn’t want a potential mass claim situation where people “I am in a PT” “Me too” “Me three” then scum who didn’t have a PT goes “Now we know who to kill.”

I thrive off town making bad assumptions when scum so my goal here was to avoid bad assumptions.

There’s bad assumptions and then there’s “literally would get the mod banned from the normal queue”
Using Discord in place of a PT to circumvent public mod info isn’t something that fits in a Normal game, ever.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a strong preference to a Chaos > Meg elim day 1.

I think that they are both about equally scummy, but Meg having actually no opinions in thread means that we don't get any associatives from a Meg flip.

Relatable opinion. If there was a choice between those two, I'd see your point. It's Flubber v Meg though and a scum vote is better than a town one.

I think that we can make Chaos happen.

Datisi and Ari both voted Chaos already, and I have not seen anything from them to think that their reads there have changed.

You+me+Datisi+Ari is already the same number of people currently voting Meg, so that pivot seems to still be on the table from my pov

VOTE: Chaos

Make the game lawful aligned!

What the fuck
Did MathBlade have reasons to SR Chaos I’m not remembering or did he literally just make what’s essentially an RVS vote on page 23?

[Gamma Emerald]

last few posts are pretty bad. Gamma's played with me enough to know that I'm top tier scum so if Gamma genuinely thought I was scum I think he'd go back and make a genuine case. I'm going to stick with town for now, but that read is degrading fast.

I’m not quite certain you’re scum, I just think your theory crafting is off base in a way that indicates you have low expectations for the quality of tris’ modding, and imo there’s no reason for you to feel that way

[Gamma Emerald]

Have the vibes from you been bad, yes, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re scum, but if you’re not scum I think you need some correction on what “normal” means to you

[Gamma Emerald]

[[Other line about my entrance not making sense]

610 was posted 9 minutes before Prism's post.

It feels like Prism is stating that it is unthinkable that we are even considering Meg as an elimination option due to 610.

This is silly because

1) 610 was just posted - nobody even has had a chance to respond to it.
2) Prism has just replaced in and has no idea why we are voting Meg nor a real read on her.

There is an edge here that feels like an agenda to me. I don't think Town!Prism would enter the thread with this much certainty.

There are multiple reasons to pursue a snapread,: First, replacements are incredibly annoying as scum an my entrance immediately puts pressure to justify things that otherwise get left for free, and this should be capitalized on immediately. Second, it being very fast does not mean it is not a real read, and these snapreads have been increasingly useful to me over the last calendar year even if the initial accuracy varies by caliber of player.

The more urgent concern was T3 threatening a hammer on a townread.

When you unvote it becomes e-2 so the hammer is not an issue.

You can simply ask us to hold up for 2-3 days in order to give you time to reread the thread

Inmediately snapreading off one post the consensus lead wagon and using 610/megs relative inexperience to say she shouldnt be even on the table reads as very manipulative to me esp if you haven't even read the game.

Hrm

[Gamma Emerald]

Aristeia like actually makes sense.

I guess so, but something seems off with her posts

[Gamma Emerald]

The behavior/approach itself is what I found town even if there's scum incentive. I would not townread more experienced players for the same behavior.

I will grab you backlinks of me playing exactly this way as town if you insist.

If you had been playing all along and had context/progression on her slot I would agree that it absolutely makes sense for you to townread her here.

However you are replacing in cold.

The replacement was announced just a few minutes prior.

It's impossible for you to actually have done the work necessary and I don't think Town!You does a derail with not even doing the work because town!you is a perfectionist at these games to the point of unhealthy obssession.

Idk about this

@Prism

did you have a particular interest in this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

Of course, I am supposing a competent scumteam and an incompetent or disabled town when I say that.

wat

[Gamma Emerald]

last few posts are pretty bad. Gamma's played with me enough to know that I'm top tier scum so if Gamma genuinely thought I was scum I think he'd go back and make a genuine case. I'm going to stick with town for now, but that read is degrading fast.

I’m not quite certain you’re scum, I just think your theory crafting is off base in a way that indicates you have low expectations for the quality of tris’ modding, and imo there’s no reason for you to feel that way

1) Poking a setup of which I believe to still be within the normal rules is not an attack on the quality of Tris’s modding. The entire point was I thought this was going to be similar to extra communication mafia and subvert expectations.

2) I literally just got done with a game where the mods gave town way too much power. The literal name of the game with the past few games I have been in is subvert expectations. It was in Calculasia and Boonskiies to name a few.

3) I have never been in a tris game before and not giving scum a PT imho is a brilliant setup design plan. I do not consider it “not mafia” as the mod said.

I think this post is disgusting as fuck here. Like you seriously make up crap about me not having scumread Chaos and now you’re poking at a bear long since dead? Are you trying to piss me off here? It’s working.

Tbh I don’t have an issue with the theory about no Mafia PT, though I don’t think that would pass either. My problem was with you thinking using Discord as a substitute in order to subvert expectations would be something any normal reviewer would pass. Expectations can be subverted in normals but telling what is in essence a mod lie is not what I’d consider fair game.
And like, I kinda don’t care that you think my post is “disgusting” when IMO your own actions have felt pretty terrible.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not pushing you or voting you, I’m just saying I don’t like the fact you thought something that borders on bastard modding would be allowed in a normal
Maybe I should save it for postgame I guess, but I kinda felt incensed because IMO you should definitely know better. What I guess I’m looking for rn is an admittance that the discord thing would not fly because of how it would be a mod lie in a normal game
Which I guess your last post might have kinda, but it doesn’t feel like you actually grasp WHY the discord idea was bad
Let’s say I modded a normal game where I said there were no Cops, but included a role that well and truly was a substitute for a Cop. That seems like a bit of a bad modding choice right? Now take a second to realize Discord isn’t a part of the site, and does it now seem clearer why using that to upend speculation would be such a no-go?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, it seems like Math has already conceded the point that such a setup is unlikely-to-impossible, why (within the context of the game) do you need any more from him than that?

I don’t want to have a potential repeat scenario in the future

[Gamma Emerald]

Now, do you scumread me? Bring it back to something content related.

Slightly, sure. Part of it is just that you replaced into a low content slot that I wasn't a huge fan of before the replacement occurred. Wrt your play, I feel like you're kinda wriggling against the status quo like it's trapping you. I think the best thing I can pull from ISO that feels like this is the policy push on T3 when T3 was consensus town. I also feel like aside from that your pushes for scum were sort of safe while also trying to gnaw away at townblocking attempts. Chaos was the underdog wagon that had kinda felt misguided to me, and Aristeia and Alchemist have both felt reasonably town generally (kinda paranoid about Aristeia's recent burst of motivation but I feel like that needs more time to marinate before I can act on it).

[Gamma Emerald]

Perhaps I'm wrong and them being this serious is a scumtell.

I have considered this myself, based on me not really recalling this sort of serious play from my guess of who Aristeia is. Obviously though this needs re-evaluation if I'm wrong about that.

[Gamma Emerald]

last few posts are pretty bad. Gamma's played with me enough to know that I'm top tier scum so if Gamma genuinely thought I was scum I think he'd go back and make a genuine case. I'm going to stick with town for now, but that read is degrading fast.

I’m not quite certain you’re scum, I just think your theory crafting is off base in a way that indicates you have low expectations for the quality of tris’ modding, and imo there’s no reason for you to feel that way

1) Poking a setup of which I believe to still be within the normal rules is not an attack on the quality of Tris’s modding. The entire point was I thought this was going to be similar to extra communication mafia and subvert expectations.

2) I literally just got done with a game where the mods gave town way too much power. The literal name of the game with the past few games I have been in is subvert expectations. It was in Calculasia and Boonskiies to name a few.

3) I have never been in a tris game before and not giving scum a PT imho is a brilliant setup design plan. I do not consider it “not mafia” as the mod said.

I think this post is disgusting as fuck here. Like you seriously make up crap about me not having scumread Chaos and now you’re poking at a bear long since dead? Are you trying to piss me off here? It’s working.

It's not disgusting as fuck to call out someone's theory you find ridiculous.

@Gamma, Math tends to be more like this as town.

okay
I wasn't scumreading the setup spec, if that makes you feel better

Of course, I am supposing a competent scumteam and an incompetent or disabled town when I say that.

wat

I'm jaded I know.

OK
Not sure why you opted for some pretty problematic word choice there though

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you're kinda wriggling against the status quo like it's trapping you.

Explain this more please.

MathBlade's pushes felt like he was going after targets that would have left him potentially high-and-dry if he didn't make them happen
I kinda wish we hadn't immediately stopped him on T3 because I feel like had he been allowed more agency there, he could have revealed himself if he's scum. Instead he knows he has to play within a certain box, which I feel dampens ability to figure out whether MathBlade is making pushes because he believes in the read or because it's what there's because there's already a list of names taken off the table.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay

@MathBlade

if T3 weren’t in the townblock, would you have a serious interest in eliminating him?

[Gamma Emerald]

T3 is Townie in my book as well. Annoying but Townie.

I just can’t say what but needed an indicator so I used it.

Well at least I got my answer
I also think the little tizzy of confusion about “Star Wars” is probably a sign you’re town because it doesn’t feel like scum!you would nitpick like that

[Gamma Emerald]

Let me try explaining how ridiculous your question is to me:

Let’s say you’ve been playing a table top role playing game.
Throughout the game you’ve been told Wolf is the big bad.

Then someone says but what if 4 days ago I told you that Wolf was no where near the murder scene.

Do you still RP now as if wolf is the big bad?

You can’t expect me to go “well what if not X” happened?

There’s like nothing to go off of.

Dude what’s with the sudden anger???

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, I asked at the behest of Titus, and you’re getting mad at me for it? Fucking CHILL, bro!

[Gamma Emerald]

Me circa 2020: "Datisi has typed 200,000 words of complex and consistent reasoning. I am on my seventh reread and see no flaws-but darkness surely lurks somewhere. I must begin anew. From scratch. From nothing."
Me circa 2021:

puts on cowboy hat

"Hot damn Datisi ignored a question, gotta be town let's ride boyz."

Aristeia you can fit here too except you're more copying a Farkran scumgame and I really should be more concerned about it than I am

Fairly sure you are the one playing the Farkran scum game between the two of us.

What’s a “Farkran scum game”?

[Gamma Emerald]

Let me try explaining how ridiculous your question is to me:

Let’s say you’ve been playing a table top role playing game.
Throughout the game you’ve been told Wolf is the big bad.

Then someone says but what if 4 days ago I told you that Wolf was no where near the murder scene.

Do you still RP now as if wolf is the big bad?

You can’t expect me to go “well what if not X” happened?

There’s like nothing to go off of.

Dude what’s with the sudden anger???

1) That wasn’t anger, my prior posts were. I use repetition and caps to signify anger.

I do still think the question is ridiculous. I don’t get why you inserted a push that doesn’t exist.

How about we just talk to other people?

Ebwop

meh

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Vulture

[Gamma Emerald]

I won’t say the current one should be changed but typically VCs are only supposed to count to the post it’s in

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Vulture

Gamma, after voting with two people he has suspected/worried about:

I think Math is town now, as for Meg, meh

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm super disengaged but I think Prism v Ari is tvt.

VOTE: vult
I'll sheep.

Who are you sheeping here?

Neither Prism nor Ari are voting for vulture atm.

People voting for Vulture.

(Fixed it)

Okay, but generally when town is sheeping, they have like, a strong town read that they are sheeping....

Not just sheeping the most recent wagon gaining steam...

This is true

[Gamma Emerald]

That's about Vulture, MathBlade

Last line is still true.

I fundamentally disagree, as D1 is such a low-info phase that policy is generally inoffensive. That’s not an absolute assessment, but most times that’s pretty much the case.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Prism's read of Vulture is accurate regardless of Prism's alignment.

GREAT

SO MAYBE

ACTUALLY GO TO BAT FOR IT, OR LET ME WITHOUT CRYING

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST POOKY

whatever, dude, sorry, did not mean to out your main

will try again at 9est

wat

[Gamma Emerald]

In fact, I'd move Meg up to a strong town lean.

Do you disagree with Vulture’s observation?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm going back to posting gifs because it makes me happier.

Ick, phone butchered that.

Butchered what?

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a feeling one of you two is trying to pocket the other. Shrug.

And this is why Vulture is scum. No content. No positions, just shade designed to increase paranoia.

What if it's just Chaos Alch and Vulture?

Yeah I kinda think Vulture is trying to “divide and conquer” by feeding conflicts between townies

[Gamma Emerald]

@Meg - The self-awareness and no effort to survive read townie to me.

are you telling me that the constant requests for more time and for them to prove themself by dishing out analysis "for after they flip" is supposed to be "no effort to survive"?

Yes. They're making last reads. They aren't seeking another day.

I don’t feel like that analysis fits with what Meg is actually doing

[Gamma Emerald]

oh, something pings me as weird about lukewarm calling meg scummy earlier, but only voting them now. even though they made no new posts from back then to now. i dunno if it's related to the vulture rising wagon, it might be, who knows. moreso a note for me for later.

Curious what the implications you are worried about here tho?

That I am scum with vulture, and that meg is town? Because in that case, I guess could have easily transitioned to the meg wagon earlier when titus urged me to.

Unless, I guess the scum team is excatly me+Vulture+Meg, and I think vulture is the stronger partner?

I was kinda mindlessly back reading and this popped out as weird
@Luke why do you treat scenarios where you’re scum so charitably here? If you’re town you know that’s not the case, so I don’t get why it feels like you’re honestly discussing that possibility.

[Gamma Emerald]

More of Math and Gamma having a contest to see who can be more offended of the other?

That actually hasn’t really been a thing in the timespan you’re citing I think

[Gamma Emerald]

@Luke why do you treat scenarios where you’re scum so charitably here? If you’re town you know that’s not the case, so I don’t get why it feels like you’re honestly discussing that possibility.

Because I think that Dats is town, so I assume that the concern is genuine, even if incorrect. So, I wanted to figure out where the concern was coming from

Okay, you were writing from Datisi’s POV. Makes sense, and tbh I feel stupid for asking because I myself have had to field the exact same question I asked you and it kinda irritates me, and as such I feel like a hypocrite

[Gamma Emerald]

Hero guess is like that/Gamma/MathBlade

Bruh

[Gamma Emerald]

I might hammer depending on whether this feeling of fractures in the townblock being attempted by those outside it continues

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually I think I’ll hold out hope since I think Vulture actually stands a better chance to flip scum over Meg

[Gamma Emerald]

The Meg wagon makes me want to cry. Scum are running from that one so fast, hoping we flip Meg and turn on each other.

If Meg flips town I think there’s something good here

[Gamma Emerald]

Meg + me + Titus + Math is 4 votes I’m pretty sure are locked on Vulture vs. Meg
T3 I believe is either on Vulture rn or would be willing to return

[Gamma Emerald]

Titus do you still think Luke is townblock material?
I feel like the way he’s acting is very suspicious if Meg is town, and doubly so if Vulture is scum on top of that

[Gamma Emerald]

If we do suppose t v t v t wagons, then Umlaut is near lockscum.

Yeah I was looking at the player list weighing whether the numbers were there for Vulture and noticed Umlaut has been an extreme non-presence which I feel like is more common when he’s scum

[Gamma Emerald]

What are you putting intent for?
The window for a PR claim has passed and if you think she’s stalling it probably makes more sense to just hammer?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also as a PR I'd still wait for intent to claim. Good to give it just in case.

I’d be shocked if you were as chill about dying as PR as you were here

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Umlaut

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw T3 lying is nothing new to me, pretty sure he’s the “strongest” liar on the site

[Gamma Emerald]

I have no idea what Umlaut or Chaos alignments are.

I don't know whether this is TvT.

I'm town because my role pm is green.

I'm not doing anything to figure out my reads, I threw them in the trash yesterday and I'll re-do them when I have time to.

ngl this doesn’t feel like a town approach
Typically I feel like town doesn’t wipe the board clean off one flip not going how they expect, they tend to stick to whatever they were thinking before that wasn’t tied to that wrong read
This reads more like scum trying to reposition for the next phase

FYI I’m moreso seeing this as a reaction to the Meg flip vs. the T3 kill

[Gamma Emerald]

You still have Seanzie in the VC

@tris

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: gamma

why is aristeia town?

Explain this vote please. I think this is probably the most damning point in the readwall. You seem to be okay with Gamma voting Umlaut now.

It's a thousand posts later....

So?

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
I still am on board with eliminating Umlaut but I think we should wait for NM to post before putting him back to E-1

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d be fine with that but I’d like him to post SOMETHING first
PEdit: mostly for what Datisi has said, you’ve been a non-factor and I think you tend to be uninvolved as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Aristeia
That video Math posted just got my brain moving on this subject a bit and I kinda wanna explore the fact that her solve from yesterday turned out to have no meat to it seeing as she has completely abandoned it. I don’t think she ever hashed out

why

she had the solve she did, and as such I think it was total bogus.

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought Alchemist was scum because his posting felt weird to me, I think he was posting out of need to look busy rather than genuine curiosity. I don't know if this is valid but I'm not going to try to force another elim after being wrong on D1, I'd rather listen to Titus who was right.

I want you to honestly look over your prior Alchemist read and tell me what you thought was scummy in the moment and whether you still think it is now

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, just because you don't want to force a lim doesn't mean you have to trash all your prior reads

[Gamma Emerald]

who is "we"?

[Gamma Emerald]

okay NM is probably town

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like you'd probably try to name somebody or keep the jig up a teensy bit if you were scum, vs. immediately balking

[Gamma Emerald]

does anyone have a direct objection to my Aristeia push?

[Gamma Emerald]

does anyone have a direct objection to my Aristeia push?

I like ari for town, and would much prefer chaos or even umlaut

why? I was kinda hoping you and anyone else who spoke up would provide some sort of counterargument to what I'd said

[Gamma Emerald]

They started with a laissez-faire attitude, that I think is pretty clearly an alt gimmick.

But then their hunger to solve has poked through that facade at various points. 265 666 671 690 703 722. This break from character makes less sense to me coming from scum. A scum ari could hide behind the gimiick more, but then some heavy solving barreled out anyways.

eh I don't entirely agree, I feel like the most "solvy" portion of Ari's ISO kinda just cracked free of the laissez-faire vibe, rather than fitting into it

[Gamma Emerald]

the mental gymnastics point makes sense a little but I still want to see Ari re-litigate her Alch read

[Gamma Emerald]

it feels like you've abandoned it completely though

[Gamma Emerald]

so like, there's two means of amending my concern, either showing why the lead has been dropped, or showing that's not the case
I don't feel like either has been done sufficiently

[Gamma Emerald]

You don’t have to impose your will in order to push scum

[Gamma Emerald]

There can only be one elimination every day.

If I am pushing for my suspect - someone who I believe is scum and as far as I can tell someone nobody else thinks is scum,

I am saying that my opinion matters more than the opinion of every other town!player playing this game.

Unless I'm extremely sure, I would not do this, and sometimes I don't do this even when I am extremely sure because it's not a nice way to play.

I guess I just have to agree to disagree because unless you’re playing like RadiantCowbells pushing a wagon generally doesn’t involve shutting out the opinions of others.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi pls solve the game

[Gamma Emerald]

hi gamma, do you have thoughts on anyone not named aristeia?

Still think Umlaut is most likely scum
Titus and Math still basically locktown

Tbh I don’t know if I like you trying to paint me like you are

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel I have lost all understanding of this game.

Also, Hi Koba

Math Gamma Datisi and I are town. The rest is irrelevant.

Why Datisi

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh I didn’t like him kinda acting like I’d only really been focusing on Aristeia but it’s forgivable

[Gamma Emerald]

Just because I decide to focus on a particular issues doesn’t mean my others reads have evaporated

[Gamma Emerald]

Lukewarm, what are your thoughts on Umlaut? Is he scummy but less so than me, neutral, town?

Pretty sure he already specified his position regarding Umlaut

[Gamma Emerald]

luke, how may i bribe you for an umlaut vote?

I feel like chaos is SUPER scummy, and it feels like admitting defeat just rolling over and letting a second couter wagons go through while I'm over here championing the chaos wagon both days. But like, it is just not happening even though no one is out here town casing him and he certainly has not suddenly started towning it up

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh I guess not
But I still am not a fan of you asking when it’s clear he’s not really in a mood to compromise

[Gamma Emerald]

My inclination is kinda to try and allow people to reset if they’re wrong
If Chaos is town I don’t see him ever playing in a way that will get Luke to realize that, so it would probably be better to allow him to refocus

[Gamma Emerald]

Luke

[Gamma Emerald]

I would expect most people to try to re-sort slots they had previously tucked away if one of their confident SRs was wrong
Aristeia didn’t obviously but rn I want to say she’s the exception not the rule

[Gamma Emerald]

Like I don’t see your argument here Gamma.

If anything that’s an argument for elimming Chaos and this forces Luke to either celebrate with joy he got scum or refocus.

Okay no you read my post wrong
I was playing Devil’s Advocate to you, so I was saying I think Chaos would be a better lim because it would let Luke refocus if Chaos flipped town

@Datisi mostly sure, I’d say like 80%

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s not much of a case I can make either way because I also think Chaos has been scummy, not to the point that I’m sure he’d flip scum, but enough that I’m not in the mood to oppose his lim unless there was a really good reason, and Umlaut can’t really be cases effectively because of how inactive he’s been outside the meta case that’s already been put forward. I guess the best I can do is talk about my own experience with Umlaut!scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually yeah I’ll do that
I feel like Umlaut lurking/being low effort isn’t a direct scumtell because I think he was a bit low effort at one point in Your Nightmare Redux, but in that game it still felt like he was trying
Meanwhile here and in G&R V (the game I mentioned earlier when discussing my Aristeia read D1 with Datisi) Umlaut’s been quite low impact and when he did post it was mediocre at best

[Gamma Emerald]

(FYI Your Nightmare Redux was a town!Umlaut game)

[Gamma Emerald]

The issue is idk if there’s a standardized way for neighborizer to start (with or without a hood)

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah, but the issue is - 2 main mafia are 2 people witb a pt, town neighbour is the 3rd. because they know there can only be 3 people with a pt, they automatically know their neighbour has to be scum.

that's fair. is there anyone other than gamma/luke who you don't townread/scumread, associates aside?

pedit: i got distracted

maybe we should ask the mod if a neighbourized would count as having a pt, but i'm like 95% sure i read on the wiki they don't start with one as per the normal rules but also i'm tired right now so

also hi koba do you have any thoughts on the game

If the town neighbor start with someone in the PT that would be correct
But I already stated when we started down the setup spec road that the statement in the OP only went for the start of the game. A neighborizer wouldn’t have the privilege of that knowledge

[Gamma Emerald]

I asked the mod hypothetically, if a Town Neighborizer with no neighbors was in this game, would they count as 1 of the 3 people with access to a PT, and was told they would.

Neat, that’s squared away then

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s less that they don’t start in it and more that it doesn’t matter whether they did because they’d count to the number in the post if the PT started as open or not

[Gamma Emerald]

Umlaut, who do you think is mafia if Chaos is town?

[Gamma Emerald]

please don’t

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Umlaut
still SR this more than Chaos fyi

[Gamma Emerald]

Any strong leads Titus?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Chaos
Barring any shocking new info I think I want to go here
Also if we get a red flip today I’m paying bail

[Gamma Emerald]

It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.

VOTE: Lukewarm

-----

Also, I'd rather not claim, but there is a reason I had an about-face on Umlaut after N1 and had my vote locked on him all D2.

Guessing it has to do with what Umlaut flipped?

[Gamma Emerald]

Koba might be scum cuz when they pushed me in LN 233 it at least felt legit, this is just lazy pushing

[Gamma Emerald]

me : im playing lazy this game
gamma: omg you're being lazy
me: yes

Lazy play can still have pushes with depth

[Gamma Emerald]

lol chaos led the umlaut wagon I'm not interested ever in them

Actually what the hell even

[Gamma Emerald]

lol chaos led the umlaut wagon I'm not interested ever in them

Nope Datisi did
Chaos was first to vote with a naked vote but Datisi was the driver

Yeah pretty much this

[Gamma Emerald]

if omega town, who's scum?

I don’t think it’s Luke, his push feels genuine
Still believe in the Titus+Math+Datisi town core
Koba replaced Vulture right? I could definitely see that slot as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

It feels like Gamma and Luke are both trying to pull momentum away from Umlaut here.

VOTE: Lukewarm

-----

Also, I'd rather not claim, but there is a reason I had an about-face on Umlaut after N1 and had my vote locked on him all D2.

Guessing it has to do with what Umlaut flipped?

Umlaut flipped neighbor, not neighborizor, so I feel like that would not result in a change over night, right?

Am I dense?

I thought Chaos maybe read the setup info N1 and reoriented off that perhaps

also why do you think scum might have thought you had a guilty Dats?

[Gamma Emerald]

like, actively softing a guilty, today? I thought the deal was chaos got a guilty on umlaut yday

[Gamma Emerald]

also why do you think scum might have thought you had a guilty Dats?

i tried to play up my "guys it's totally me who has the guilty" as best as i could, and at least two people bought it it seems, probably more. if i managed to trick at least one scumfuck, that's enough. and considering that after umlaut redflip i'm never getting yeeted regardless, i was the most logical shot last night.

possibly
tbh tho I also think I played a bit like I had a guilty myself, what with how cagey my umlaut voting reasons were

[Gamma Emerald]

ngl I think a chaos townflip does implicate Alch
VOTE: DkKoba
I think I kinda wanna opt for what is my common denominator rn

[Gamma Emerald]

like, actively softing a guilty, today? I thought the deal was chaos got a guilty on umlaut yday

We look for scum on Umlaut on Umlaut besides Datisi Gamma Math and Chaos. The concensus was there was a guilty. I bet scum played like it.

that narrows it down to NM and one other that idr, and I don't think NM is scum rn

[Gamma Emerald]

fine VOTE: umlaut

e-1

this was the other Umlaut vote
I could potentially see it being aristeia given literally

no one

except like umlaut himself was on board when I tried to counterwagon her

[Gamma Emerald]

That suggests Alch town.

what does?

[Gamma Emerald]

their push against me is totally lifeless, compared to times where koba has pushed against me as town
being demotivated accounts for some of it but even the logic doesn't compare to what koba has put forth against me when town

[Gamma Emerald]

their push against me is totally lifeless, compared to times where koba has pushed against me as town
being demotivated accounts for some of it but even the logic doesn't compare to what koba has put forth against me when town

Is scum Koba always lazy? Different from usual doesn’t necessarily mean scum.

I think they're sometimes lazy, but my issue is moreso I just think their read on me is half-assed in a way that just doesn't make sense for town!koba
it's an OMGUS read yes but tbh I'm kinda starting to feel less bad about those recently

[Gamma Emerald]

lol chaos led the umlaut wagon I'm not interested ever in them

btw @Titus: this remind you of anything? Perhaps a certain stranger from a strange land? A probe far past our solar system initially sent to monitor the rulers of gods and Titans?

[Gamma Emerald]

their push against me is totally lifeless, compared to times where koba has pushed against me as town
being demotivated accounts for some of it but even the logic doesn't compare to what koba has put forth against me when town

fam u joined a scum wagon at the end of it that had no counterwagon and now are pushing someone who helped start that very same wagon LOL

stop trolling

false, I voted umlaut early, jumped off to see what would happen, and returned when I p much got bored with that and was ready to end the day

[Gamma Emerald]

speak for yourself

[Gamma Emerald]

speak for yourself

this is @ koba

[Gamma Emerald]

it's not chaos or nothing, there's still one other scum out there

[Gamma Emerald]

lmao

[Gamma Emerald]

okay? idg why you felt that response was needed

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not the one championing the chaos lim rn, direct your weird frustrations somewhere else

[Gamma Emerald]

lol chaos led the umlaut wagon I'm not interested ever in them

btw @Titus: this remind you of anything? Perhaps a certain stranger from a strange land? A probe far past our solar system initially sent to monitor the rulers of gods and Titans?

clarifying this, in a game that literally just finished a scum tried to claim they and their scumbuddy were prime movers in getting the initial push on the first flipped scum to happen, which I rightly honed in on to steer to game towards that scum's elimination
Titus was the scumbuddy in that scenario

[Gamma Emerald]

lol chaos led the umlaut wagon I'm not interested ever in them

btw @Titus: this remind you of anything? Perhaps a certain stranger from a strange land? A probe far past our solar system initially sent to monitor the rulers of gods and Titans?

clarifying this, in a game that literally just finished a scum tried to claim they and their scumbuddy were prime movers in getting the initial push on the first flipped scum to happen, which I rightly honed in on to steer to game towards that scum's elimination
Titus was the scumbuddy in that scenario

Ugh. Meta. Is this the Situation room game?

Nah, FGO 2

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait prism is in this game? Dude saltily repped out of a game i was in with him recently because apparently i*exist* so lmao
dude's alignment is easy as hell to read tho; theyre a level 1 emotional player

I thought you only repped in after Prism left on purpose

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, good luck on that because I’m probably gonna hold you to that soon

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a tell that scum that profess to not have read/be reading the game will slip knowledge they probably shouldn’t have if they were adhering to that position

[Gamma Emerald]

unless you're proposing massclaim and trying to break the setup that way, which no.

Absolutely not. I am pants on type of dude.

What I am suggesting is that it’s unlikely Chaos gets off another check of town so it’s better to have him claim now if he is so scum have to adjust during the day.

Pretty sure scum might already be adjusted

[Gamma Emerald]

If I fullclaim, what are scum adjusting to during the day Math? Me not fullclaiming is allowing scum to make a mistake by not having complete information.

If you full claim and are unelimmable then scum have to push somewhere else. People fly off your wagon like it’s allergies.

that depends on the claim
leaving it unsure means scum are firing in the dark

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't feel like lukewarm is suspicious out of the people who were pushing chaos
I feel like Alch's behavior is more in line with what I'd expect scum to be doing

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Umlaut

Why did you wait until now to vote Umlaut?

VOTE: Chaos

Why are you just now voting Chaos?

Math is weirded out by naked votes at the start of this day but I’m weirded out with people that waited and then voted for seemingly no reason. So far it’s been Titus and Ari, and both times came right after a vote count.

not relevant to my point, but what was the idea of questioning when the votes came?

am i insane for thinking there is something Very Wrong about the fact that luke spent a lot of time yesterday pushing omega, then once he realized that's not happening, he was suddenly a firm believer in meg flipping red, brute forced the wagon through, then the person whose literally only strong read was "datisi is locktown" is dead, and *then* luke is back on omega while making a convoluted case on why i'm a partner when that case is half made up of literal lies and empty assumptions?

I don’t see why scumLuke does this unless they’re trying really hard to bus Chaos and think they can get a universal Townread destroyed out of it.

Also Luke got cold feet about Chaos after people started joining that wagon and it became more viable, so “realizing it wasn’t gonna happen” is an incorrect assessment.

There's a shiny Umlaut wagon waiting for your comment.

I think Umlaut has a decent chance of flipping scum but I think the chance of Chaos scum is higher.

Alch held onto this PoV pretty much the entirety of D2, it feels like he was hoping to get the Chaos miselim but also trying to not sound too defensive of Umlaut in case he got flipped

The people on Chaos are going to think the Umlaut wagon is scum for resisting and vice versa.

I think Chaos and Umlaut are both scum. I think we should flip Chaos first. I think there has been a lot of resistance to the Chaos wagon but after a red flip I’d still flip Umlaut afterwards before I accused anyone on Umlauts wagon of trying to drive the counterwagon.

this feels like a "yeah I'm totally down to send out Umlaut just as soon as I get Chaos out first, then I'll totally be with you!"

The people on Chaos are going to think the Umlaut wagon is scum for resisting and vice versa.

I think Chaos and Umlaut are both scum. I think we should flip Chaos first. I think there has been a lot of resistance to the Chaos wagon but after a red flip I’d still flip Umlaut afterwards before I accused anyone on Umlauts wagon of trying to drive the counterwagon.

Why the resistance/strong preference for Umlaut if you think they're both equally scum?

He’s getting away 2 Days in a row and it gives me the impression Chaos is more important to the scumteam.

this narrative has continued on into today wrt the "Chaos must be inportant to the scumteam" train of thought, idk how much I like that

He’s getting away 2 Days in a row and it gives me the impression Chaos is more important to the scumteam.

Yet, you're not highlighting who you think is scum saving Chaos.

That will have to be figured out after the Umlaut flip, because I’m not sure if, aside from Chaos’ vote, there is scum on the Umlaut wagon or if scum is hesitant to join because they don’t want it to happen but are content to let it happen before Chaos.

This feels like Alch is scum who wanted to avoid having to stick his neck out on pre-flip speculation

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma your case largely ignores the D1 context that we had a Chaos wagon and it broke down and became the MegAzumarill flip and I want to avoid a repeat of that.

I was moreso looking at your stance on Umlaut v Chaos, but yeah you're probably right
dunno if it actually exonerates you tho

[Gamma Emerald]

You’ve done a lot of sheeping and you always seem hesitant to strike out on your own to make a play. It feels like you don’t know what to do with your own vote a lot of the time.

thanks for helping make the case for pooky being town

I was kinda thinking Aristeia might be Pooky a little bit earlier, you saying so makes it near certain
FYI Pooky was not who I initially thought Ari was but her play makes more sense as town if she is Pooky

[Gamma Emerald]

MegAzumarill (4):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Gamma Emerald 364, Vulture 456

ChaosOmega (4):

Lukewarm 259, MathBlade 558, Alchemist21 665, Titus 750

Prism is towny, mostly gut though.
VOTE: chaos

so, at this part of the game, chaos became the leading wagon. umlaut was posting at the time. he gave zero shits about chaos getting run up. if a partner had been getting run up, a partner that people (is anyone other than alch actually?) are claiming is so important to the scumteam, you'd think umlaut would be doing... something?

also all of luke/math/alch are voting chaos here and uhh. don't like it one bit.

This makes sense actually

[Gamma Emerald]

We would have one scum in Ari Gamma Koba, likely not Gamma.
One in Luke Math Alch, likely not Math
Umlaut off.

Yeah this feels legit
VOTE: Alchemist
This is pretty much the best cross-section of “people I suspect” and “people who don’t seem basically untouchable rn”

[Gamma Emerald]

because they can let the townie burn *anyway*, and then the next day they can go "wow gee guys you voted meg? like i told you we should vote omega hehe" and then you get another misyeet.

i do think it's somewhat unlikely luke/alch are scum together because blatant wagoning together is blatant, but that just makes me think math is more scum and i really need explanation for why he's apparently town by play

So because you don’t think scum would wagon together, your suspect is someone who was also on that wagon? WHAT?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also the whoever hammered would be under heat tomorrow is just historically not true.

If you believe Chaos was a PR with a guilty (I don’t) then no, the person hammering wouldn’t be pressured at all.
Furthermore it’s usually not hammers that get pressured. That’s a myth.

Ftr I think Math has a point about hammers getting overlooked, generally those who get it to the E-1 point get looked at more I think
This is somehow especially true in micros

[Gamma Emerald]

titus asked you what's your solve if me/her/omega are town. you said you don't see a world where meg doesn't get hammered there then. that seems to me like you're calling one of us scum.

No it’s not. That’s you making an assumption and putting words in my mouth AGAIN.

It’s what I am struggling with. That’s all. I don’t have an answer for that yet as I haven’t done a proper VCA.

Just because I point out a flaw doesn’t mean I necessarily have the solution.

Number one rule of answering questions in mafia/Survivor (since it applies there wrt jury questions): always answer the initial question, even if there is a caveat.

[Gamma Emerald]

We would have one scum in Ari Gamma Koba, likely not Gamma.
One in Luke Math Alch, likely not Math
Umlaut off.

how u gonna say "likely not" at the 2 likley remaining scum

Dk straight up malding at not being able to crack the townblock

[Gamma Emerald]

Lukewarm has overall just not felt very engaged or solvey compared to what I've seen of him in the past and that's a big shrug for me.

Can you describe this? A few people have been SRing Luke and my objection has been that he seems to be legitimately solving so if that’s not correct then my TR on Luke kinda turns to dust

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you see from Luke that looks like he's solving?

I skimmed the ISO last night and again just now and it just looks like he's been tunneled on ChaosO for most of the game?

Town can be tunneled and still feel like they’re trying to solve
I just played a game where at least to my eyes that seemed to be the case for one player

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, what's your solve?

Alch+Koba

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, what's your solve?

Alch+Koba

Go on with Koba please.

Also, why not Math? I am debating the possibility that he gets miseliminated after I die because he's making himself too widely suspected to live to elo.

It’s as you’re noting, Koba is clearly trying to break up our little trust circle, and their own suggested townblock just doesn’t vibe with me at all, plus the way they have been pushing me from the start doesn’t seem right for a number of reasons.
Are you saying you don’t want Math in ELo if you’re not around or you’re worried he’ll get miseliminated in general?

[Gamma Emerald]

KEKW

[Gamma Emerald]

Still don’t buy this narrative that Chaos hardpushed Umlaut