Mini Normal 2239 | AQAtPimP | Game Over

[datsi]

VOTE: salsabil faria
omgus

[datsi]

I 100% would have believed there being three millers
This is a Gypyx designed game, you throw your expectations out the window for this

[datsi]

Lol, page 1 just unloading the cannon.

I actually didn't like 10 more, I was voting for that before I was sniped. It reads like cautious scum, they want to make a vote to build a wagon and force pressure to look town but don't want to step on any toes, so they pull all the teeth from the vote saying it's for pressure and they're not sure what for.

I'm continuing to be selfish here in not explaining my full thought process behind the vote but I don't think stating that you're applying additional pressure necessarily removes the teeth away from the vote. Nor do I have the intention of building a wagon, either. If that was my intention then I wouldn't have made the vote in the way that I did.

This isn’t really a town post but it’s a good post

[datsi]

I’m a Miller btw

spicy. is this a serious claim? i'm guessing it is, since i've never seen n_m troll by claiming miller, but to make sure.

I think I’ve- wait no, that was Firebringer. Can’t ever recall NM claiming Miller; sorry

[datsi]

I’m a Miller btw

Woa same

oh no

not again

if i'm thrown into a game with two millers again i'm not gonna be happy

you missed a Miller claim by T3

[datsi]

Datisi is town
Dwlee is town
Margot is scum

VOTE: MargotRosa

[datsi]

this is where I come in
miller does come up as guilty to cops but that's the only role it appears guilty to, gunsmiths get a no-gun result and rolecops will accurately see that they are a miller
that last one is extra-important as miller is a town-only role so if someone comes up as a miller to a town rolecop the rolecop can treat the player as confirmed town
and sometimes miller is tacked onto scummy sounding roles, like a one shot bp milller vigilante

[datsi]

hi ari, how are you today?
have you read yet?

[datsi]

ehfb olfqwipwuwn t8ghunoqe nfbnfbn ;orgniqertfomwqtebiwon4hbo;tnoeiuwfnbh;oig

[datsi]

VOTE: innocentvillager

[datsi]

T3 is also scum

[datsi]

why

don't play the fool with me, you know what you did

[datsi]

that's proof of scum guilt
VOTE: t3
we gottem bois

[datsi]

did t3 did something outside of usual-t3 into scum-t3 territory? if it's a yes, can someone explain it to me pls i wanna join in on the fun

no
I just voted him because it was funny

[datsi]

Maybe Dwlee actually noticed and was keeping the suspense
VOTE: Margot
Though I’m not a fan of the vibes from kyouko

[datsi]

Margot/Mewtaph/Kyouko? is where I think scum is

[datsi]

[datsi]

I do think your reads list comes from a town mind set though Margot.

Oh shit. In that case, invert my read on Dwlee. Sorry, I TR'd them solely because I thought you had conf towned them

Why’s the response to immediately invert the read rather than to dial back?

[datsi]

i'm getting positive vibes from margot and i'm interested in what my evil clone thinks of her now

Margot feels a little better but I still have things I want out of her

Also SF feels like town because their reads feel sensible and I think that tends to be the case when they’re town

[datsi]

When she’s town*

[datsi]

Roden

Datisi
Salsabil Faria
Dwlee99

Aristeia
T3

Not_Mafia
ChaosOmega

innocentvillager

Mewtaph
ssbm_Kyouko
MargotRosa

Locktown, towny, leantown, null, leanscum, scummy

[datsi]

imagine not hyperposting

imagine needing to spam in order to be heard

pedit: Mewtaph I haven't formed a read yet. I think I was scum with him a long time ago either in a newbie or a micro so I'll be looking into that at some point. I'm inclined to townlean just because of the wagon on him but that's not good enough to take him off the table D1 so I'll still have to read.

I think I remember that game, it was pretty stupid iirc

[datsi]

I am loathe to use it as the primary evidence for a push but I have noted players flaking out of games following scumgames to be a bit of a scumtell. While it ended up being a minor factor in the overall slot handling it’s what initially biased me gain at the samantha97/CheekyTeeky/Not_Mafia slot in LN 231.

[datsi]

Biased me against *

[datsi]

Sometimes you get lucky and become one of the ones that enjoy being scum

[datsi]

IV you might wanna watch the spelling

[datsi]

why are there 3 votes on me? u n a c c e p t a b l e !!

oh it’s the scumteam nvm ez gg

Btw care to explain this stance?

[datsi]

I feel like for the most part Salsa’s playstyle gets in the way of her ability to communicate effectively, she’s kinda a solid player it’s just hard to trust her when she’s acting fluffy. The thing is she hasn’t been acting fluffy this game so I actually feel good about her.

[datsi]

See, I knew it was good to eliminate myself, otherwise I would be on elo and town lost.

Was this meant for the game that just ended?

[datsi]

They have history together.

It'd be like if I joined this game and didn't talk with you.

It would be very weird

Just because I know NM doesn’t mean I’m gonna able to read him on the spot

[datsi]

Gamma was very tilted by NM in 2170 and starts this game off weary of him and sorting him actively, even go as far as to be worried when MC TRs NM.

Here he is not very interested in NM at all.

I wasn’t tilted by NM, I was just trying to avoid what felt like a repeat mistake
Here NM didn’t play the same way so I didn’t immediately lock onto his play.

[datsi]

Not a fan of IV’s catch up posting
My phone ate this post twice so you’re getting the basic bitch version of what I want to say

[datsi]

Spoiler: For Datisi

*gag*
While I don’t dislike all of Taylor Swift’s work on principle that particular song I cannot stand
Sorry to barge in on private ground but I always open those spoilers just out of morbid curiosity and I had a visceral reaction I have to make clear

[datsi]

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

[datsi]

I'm VT please ignore me

Wtf! I had a bunch of questions

weird unnatural rxn

You're weird dude! Your catch up isn’t making sense to me also, bunch of fluffs!

See, I knew it was good to eliminate myself, otherwise I would be on elo and town lost.

Was this meant for the game that just ended?

Nope, this:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87211

ah

[datsi]

Updates from page 13 to bottom of page 17 (These take me a while, and I have a meeting to get to in half an hour, so can’t finish. Apologies)

Kyo:

382 makes me like her better. A lot of the justifications comning out of this aren’t necessarily justifications I buy, but the post comes across as Townier than other slots. The Mewtaph meta stuff is very interesting. Feel like the Datsi stuff might be correlating for the sake of correlating though.

Aristeia:

I like this slot a little less. 383 is a wild reason to FoS datsi. Don’t know what to make of it; I don’t like Datsi either, but reading NM and Datsi as scum because NM was read as null, with his posting 2 (3 at a stretch) genuine content posts before this one, seems very strange.

In the case of both of the above, I don't think it would change anything necessarily. They are both Null still, but these are just things that I'm keeping an eye on.

As I've explained previously, Dwlee is now in my sum reads. But, to bring it home;

InnocentVillager:

I haaaaaate everything from 395 to 416. Me aside, the fact that Salsa and Datisi are the only other scum reads, despite everything in the preceding pages, blows my mind. Mind is further blown by the Town reads on Dwlee, mewtaph and gamma, all of whom, at least up until this point, have been scummy as shit. It reads so much like scum jumping in with no idea of the game state and throwing reads around based on the first few pages.

May switch vote after reqarding the rest of the thread and working out where the votes are atm

I feel pretty good about this post rn (minus calling me and dwlee scummy)

[datsi]

and if I did attempt to get towncred in this game I definitely failed to considering how many people voted me and how many people continue to vote me.

this is a very meh argument

[datsi]

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

Don't know your and

Datisi

's history with

Aris

but the spoilers and the private interaction in between is making me paranoid

Is there any pocketing attempt going on somehow?

not really, Aristeia just has like, a crush on datisi

[datsi]

Mewtaph’s posts seem kind of secretive which is +town

could you describe where you're seeing this

[datsi]

i'm a bit busy for the next 4-5 hours so i'll properly read and respond to all the posts then (i've skimmed a bit), but i wanted to out a hot take in the meantime:

iv is likely scum. the fact that he hasn't returned from his catching up yet from yesterday (and that catchup was like 5 pages with non-explained reads? lol) is indicative that he doesn't want to be in this game. and as much as it pains me to say, if iv is red, aristeia is somewhat likely to be a partner. mainly because her reads seem to be kind of consensus-y/yeetbaity players, but there's absolutely no mention of iv anywhere, who i think would fit that description rn. her last game with me made me think she's anti bus, so i could see her be trying to divert attention from iv here.

okay this is the basis for my push?

Datisi idk wtf ur doing here I hope you don’t actually believe this

I have been playing this game for less than 24 hours phoneposting and I am like 20+ pages behind or whatever

Granted the late start was my fault but I don’t see how You could think I’m just scum here

My catch was done in the middle of the workday which I don’t really have a real break I’m taking time out to play this

If you MUST know what I was doing last night I am with my partner celebrating a holiday and I don’t really want to be playing mafiascum during that

Was I seriously about to die because I hadn’t posted for like 16 hours?? Hello what the fuck Datisi? And how did people agree with that?

I swear dogshit like this makes me want to go back into hiatus I don’t have like 2 hours every day to devote to this and I shouldn’t have to explain myself every time I go away for a very reasonable amount of time

Datisi you are scum here trying to push a fast one on me while I am still in catchup more or town doing idk what maybe trying to tilt me into this. like I’d like to think Town gou isn’t this bad how can you possibly show so much confidence in this read just based on that. I hope you have a great explanation for this or I am vote parking you the rest of the game

actually one of the most ridiculous flashwagons I have seen in my life

Margot is also scum here or needs to go back to Newbie queue for intentionally putting me at E1 this early on AND asking for a claim especially with NM in the game but maybe not even

I will put a little bit of time into this tonight but if I’m going to get killed because im not poring over this for hours a day like cmon that’s just ridiculous

this feels kinda organic

[datsi]

Kyo the way you do meta is so infuriating

I'm not saying you're wrong to say this but why

[datsi]

yeah, iv's use of the term shotgun reads pinged me for parroting so I searched his ego and he's only used it once before, also in a game with Datisi, also he was using the term to reference Datisi's usage of the term. They were both town.

i'm probably about to go off at iv myself but like in what universe is that scum!indicative? or town!indicative for that matter? even if he had never heard that term before, saw me use it, and decided to use it himself, how does that potentially reveal anything about his or my own alignment here?

ngl the random irrelevant meta point seems town indicative from kyouko

[datsi]

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

i find it kind of odd that you're lowkey sheepng aristeia on t3 when she's pretty adamant in saying you're scum? do you have any opinion on that?

I feel like she raises valuable point against T3 and wanted to see how she responded to me voting there
ngl, not exactly a fan of what I saw

[datsi]

You’ve felt very reactive thus far

[datsi]

this feels kinda organic

Do you think it's AI?

a little bit
I think I need to see more

You’ve felt very reactive thus far

... Is that all.. or?

I could probably explain but I don’t wanna

[datsi]

I feel like she raises valuable point against T3 and wanted to see how she responded to me voting there
ngl, not exactly a fan of what I saw

what do you mean?

I voted your leading suspect because I liked the logic, you should show some enthusiasm that your suspect is getting traction and that maybe you’re enticing scum to bus
Instead you developed cold feet on T3 entirely in favor of pushing IV for

taking Datisi’s attention

[datsi]

Kyo the way you do meta is so infuriating

I'm not saying you're wrong to say this but why

Read

Just saying “weary” doesn’t explain anything

[datsi]

Mewtaph’s posts seem kind of secretive which is +town

Not following?

I've found that quietly solving the game and making a point of not telling people what your reads are usually comes form town.

You learn that by seeing yourself play?
Also idk if the description you gave fits what Mew has been doing

[datsi]

I don’t think I can back a lim on IV atp
I was kinda having pause because he felt genuine emotionally but wasn’t sure whether he could emote like that as scum, but thinking about it his read on me feels really well reasoned at least

[datsi]

His frustration doesn’t feel warped though
When I express my emotions as scum I always present my real emotions just molded to suit my agenda somewhat

Also, his read on me is like, honestly the biggest towntell I can pinpoint, my play here is literally the antithesis of the game he’s comparing to where I was scum, so regardless of your read on me IV should be obvious town

[datsi]

Also, his read on me is like, honestly the biggest towntell I can pinpoint, my play here is literally the antithesis of the game he’s comparing to where I was scum, so regardless of your read on me IV should be obvious town

can you explain this? why is iv town for noticing a difference in your play between the two games?

It’s the way he noticed it, I feel like there’s ways he could have spun it to not TR me for it, so unless he’s literally trying to pocket me specifically I think he’s just town

[datsi]

Just from what I've seen other people do

If it wasn’t clear, I think you’re playing how you said scum would

[datsi]

It boils down to the nature of the TR
Anyway, why are you taking my argument at face value like this if you presumably think I could be partnered with IV?

[datsi]

@Mew, idk if I got to it but I can’t really put my feelings on you from early on any other way. You feel more proactive now though at least.

[datsi]

Datisi, datsi, T3, ssbm_Kyouko, innocentvillager, Salsabil Faria, Dwlee99.
^ my town read list.

I object to T3 but this town list looks otherwise solid

[datsi]

Datisi, datsi, T3, ssbm_Kyouko, innocentvillager, Salsabil Faria, Dwlee99.
^ my town read list.

I object to T3 but this town list looks otherwise solid

To follow this up, generally when I object to a person being in a townblock, it’s best to

listen

. I did that in large normal 235, people wanted to townblock Roden and Shrek and I was hesitant to include them, they ended up both being scum. If I’m being honest I don’t entirely get why Kyouko’s there either but I need to sit on that a bit and 5/7 is still decent.

[datsi]

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

[datsi]

There isn't much of a case, three scum read players are just consolidating their votes on Margot.

you might wanna check over that math again, it's just T3 and mew

[datsi]

actually nvm I somehow failed to notice IV's vot ein the last VC

[datsi]

I don't have a lot of experience playing with IV so I am kind of relying on your experience here, however I don't think he's posted anything that makes me think he is trying to be active in advancing the game state - it's mostly "how dare you vote me" AtE which is very bleh to me.

Exactly why we need to run him up and get an actual claim out of him. I don't like that Mew and T3 wanted IV out until he was brought into claim range, but then got cold feet and swapped over to Margot therefore making all of their pressure pointless and showy. If they want to keep fake pressuring people we can 100% just vote T3 or Mew instead, as I don't see any reason to vote out Margot before any of the three that are voting her.

Fake pressuring people. Alright, nah. I didn't even want IV out so check your narrative. Except it's not even a narrative because you're IC, you're just wrong. Sigh.

This post actually feels really bad
VOTE: Mewtaph

[datsi]

It a sort of hitting-your-head-against-a-wall tone I feel like scum typically display when trying to sway an IC or pseudo-IC

[datsi]

UNVOTE: mewtaph
Enough people are saying I’m off-track and I liked his attempt to dial back that failed to launch

[datsi]

Lying about meta to townread someone you know is town is something scum 100% do (I think t3 has done this before)

This is true

[datsi]

Lying about meta to townread someone you know is town is something scum 100% do (I think t3 has done this before)

When?

The traitor game I looked at for LN 233, is the leading example

[datsi]

VOTE: not_mafia
I reread his ISO and he gives me a vaguely similar vibe to 2226

[datsi]

while i don't disagree, i feel like miller claim is at least somewhat town!indicative from n_m

thoughts on t3? on my thoughts on t3? i don't think you townread him, why ignore that in favour of n_m?

pedit: @gamma

T3 can also be scum, idr what you’ve said about him in specific, I just feel like N_M is the right vote, he’s kinda in line with his scum meta and just has been UtR in general this game, he hasn’t really pushed anyone (I know he said he has no scumreads but still :/)

[datsi]

I also feel like the game’s starting to stall a little so I’m trying something new

[datsi]

bruh

[datsi]

Also I just remembered that NM claimed miller when reading this post so uh
UNVOTE: nm

I’m aware he claimed Miller too, why do you think scum!nm wouldn’t do that?

[datsi]

I do resemble that remark, but I kinda wanna actually look into someone rather soon

[datsi]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
This was the person I wanted to look into, and what I saw in ISO was kinda what I recalled from what stuck with me reading in real time
She’s not playing her towngame, at best this is a cheap imitation

[datsi]

Kyouko was also kinda in the same blindspot Roden was in during most of LN 235 so that’s another point for kyouko!scum

[datsi]

Kyouko I see you online, care to try and contest my accusation?

[datsi]

I had forgotten about what led to 627 somewhat, but on close inspection it doesn’t pass muster. A lot of what you’ve done this game seems shallow, meanwhile in Radio Buzz while you kinda fell off bad later on (read: DAY FOUR), in the early stages you had some pretty well thought out content imo. Here it seems like you’ve tried to copy your own homework (as outrageous as that sounds) and it shows. Your throne of lies shall not fool me today.

[datsi]

As for the vibe I had of you, I’d kinda just been like “she doesn’t really feel that great but I don’t think there’s much merit in pushing her yet”, but I didn’t really have anything substantial aside from how you’d been pushing the Miller Mason Encryptor fakeclaim (which btw I will circle back to later on if I need to) back then, now I have a better picture of your posting and it screams scum to me.

[datsi]

What makes you believe Datisi can’t power wolf?
Also I’m probably not supporting a dwlee elim unless something substantial happens to change my mind because I feel like I focused in on something good early in the same sort of way I TRed Pooky in Radio Buzz, but it’s harder to pinpoint what exactly I liked atm

[datsi]

Reading Kyouko’s ISO to fact check myself, noticed something

Meta: t3 only metas dwlee when he is evil

Dwlee does not meta

Who is meta??

I'm so meta, even this acronym

See me

after class

post-game

[datsi]

So there’s two things I kinda have come to expect from kyouko when she’s town. The first is that she carries this sort of dumbfuck energy where she kinda barrels along with whatever her thought process is, here I don’t sense that and instead she feels more calculated. The other is that she has this inexplicable hate-boner for me, but here she’s only really had a flaccid “I’ll sort him later” stance that progressed to scumleaning me only after I started wanting her head.
And being clear Kyouko, if this offends you,

good

, tbh. You seem dedicated to relish in mediocrity with your towngame so I’m working to account for that. If you don’t want me to read you this way in the future,

shape the fuck up

. This is also a bit of a personal issue because I feel like you’ve decided to stand on the wrong side of a very important line in the sand. You’ll have the chance to redeem yourself but until that opportunity properly arises you’re basically in Super Bad Player Jail.

[datsi]

Hey,

I’m

voting kyouko, kyouko is voting you.

[datsi]

You had over an hour to process that I was the most recent poster. What the fuck.

[datsi]

The quote function exists for a reason
Although I’m also probably irritable from tiredness + other oog factors

[datsi]

I don’t get how that relates but whatever

[datsi]

If T3 gets to E-2 I’ll vote there

[datsi]

I will say the T3 wagon is like, full-on Incorruptible Pure Pureness, so I 100% wouldn’t mind that being the lim, I just want to try to act on my own suspicions as well here.
Btw I chose to play on this account because I wanted to play with Aristeia and Datisi and I also wanted to cash in a several month old check with this joke alt (which honestly might see more use in the future as I’m kinda getting into that Flavor Leaf groove of using different accounts for different vibes I want to go for). Also also, if I ever hydra with Datisi I really hope he’s played Ace Attorney: Spirit of Justice because my leading idea for the hydra name is probably spoilery for that game.

[datsi]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Why is this day not over yet?

Because no wagon has gained momentum since the one on IV
which imo is probably a town-indicative thing for IV?

Datisi I'm not sure if he's town but if he's scum he doesnt have the influence to power wolf and if he's town will be NKed at some point so not limming there at all toDay.

how do these two things go together? like, if i'm town, you think i'm so important that scum will have to kill me, but if i'm scum, i don't hold influence to powerwolf?

Not so important that scum will have to kill you, but you strike me as a free thinker. You don't carry the influence to powerwolf here, but you also arent going to be easy to sway. If you are town, the longer the game goes on with you alive, the more accurate you'll get. I don't think you'll make it to ELO as town because you're not going to be useful as a vote or as a target for scum.

As for you Gamma, the hatred you're feeling from me is imagined. I don't take any issue with you at a personal level. I've misread you only once since coming back to the site. You're just buttfrustrated by my play in Radio Buzz, and probably that Mini Normal, and I dont see that as my problem. I'd been waiting to read you because I figured out what I think is a good tell and am waiting to see it either way.

I feel like you kinda had it out for me in 3d20 as well. I'll admit it's not the most sensible thing as you seemed chill in 2213 and OMB, but since then there's been a sense that you've constantly been paranoid of me ig. There's other factors but I can't really dive into them because of ongoing games

[datsi]

Ftr I also think your meta that I am okay using meta as scum but not as town isn't really true. I don't use meta as either. I will mention other games because I find them useful for references on how tells/reads have played out and analogies can be made. I don't think that's meta.

That is meta. It's fundamentally different from the sort of meta where you take a bunch of games from player X and try to construct a play structure as scum and town for them, but it still counts. I actual have my own name for what you do, it's "anecdotal meta", because I've used it many times myself and typically I will say something along the lines of "In this game I saw x thing happen and it relates to this game in y way". Tbh I feel like anecdotal meta is kinda the stuff that annoys more people when I do it than regular meta, but apparently the metabad squad seems to think it's preferable because I've also seen Reck say "meta isn't actually bad but the usage is bad" because when the regular form of meta is used it allows for manipulation of it (which I don't entirely agree with but that's a can of worms I don't care to open in this thread). But like, I feel like the era where I got the most shitty SRs on me was also the era where I used anecdotal meta the most, and I vaguely recall that being a factor, so I'd attempted to phase out that element of my play somewhat.

[datsi]

Okay then I don't think you're even on the same page as Reck because I think I've argued with him about learning from past experience in the sense of "I miseliminated this player before for this exact reason so it doesn't hold water"
which I guess does kinda comprise a grey area as a playstyle defense of that sort does kinda have to be regular meta

can you provide some key examples of where you've used that sort of factoring in past games in other games?

[datsi]

okay now I'm the dummy

[datsi]

Okay then I don't think you're even on the same page as Reck because I think I've argued with him about learning from past experience in the sense of "I miseliminated this player before for this exact reason so it doesn't hold water"
which I guess does kinda comprise a grey area as a playstyle defense of that sort does kinda have to be regular meta

can you provide some key examples of where you've used that sort of factoring in past games in other games?

I'm pretty sure most games I've done it at least to some extent

I'm TTTT I said at some point "oh yeah Sigmund is Pooky and has done this quickhammer stuff as scum before" and realized Datisi was town

I didn't realize Sigmund was Pooky

How do you know that, because if so that exonerates Sigmund of a certain heinous act I've been litigating for a while now

[datsi]

okay as much as I'd love to yeet kyouko into the stratosphere here, with Aristeia's vote we have enough to yeet T3 if dwlee, datisi, and I all re-join (because NM will hammer)

[datsi]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Why is this day not over yet?

Because no wagon has gained momentum since the one on IV
which imo is probably a town-indicative thing for IV?

Datisi I'm not sure if he's town but if he's scum he doesnt have the influence to power wolf and if he's town will be NKed at some point so not limming there at all toDay.

how do these two things go together? like, if i'm town, you think i'm so important that scum will have to kill me, but if i'm scum, i don't hold influence to powerwolf?

Not so important that scum will have to kill you, but you strike me as a free thinker. You don't carry the influence to powerwolf here, but you also arent going to be easy to sway. If you are town, the longer the game goes on with you alive, the more accurate you'll get. I don't think you'll make it to ELO as town because you're not going to be useful as a vote or as a target for scum.

As for you Gamma, the hatred you're feeling from me is imagined. I don't take any issue with you at a personal level. I've misread you only once since coming back to the site. You're just buttfrustrated by my play in Radio Buzz, and probably that Mini Normal, and I dont see that as my problem. I'd been waiting to read you because I figured out what I think is a good tell and am waiting to see it either way.

I feel like you kinda had it out for me in 3d20 as well. I'll admit it's not the most sensible thing as you seemed chill in 2213 and OMB, but since then there's been a sense that you've constantly been paranoid of me ig. There's other factors but I can't really dive into them because of ongoing games

YOU WERE LITERALLY SCUM IN 3D20. Yes I overcompensated in Radio Buzz soon after OMB because you slipped by me for a long time in OMB, but I corrected that

during

Radio Buzz.

Out of the game? I know you're feeling targeted by me recently and I was trying to respect that in this game by waiting to see if you posted in a specific way that I think you only post as when you're scum. I'm not trying to upset you on a personal level, I'm trying to win games, and when I think you're scum, I'm going to act on it. I'm trying to do it in a way that isn't going to make you feel targeted.

I really feel like I need to know what this specific way of posting is to tell how much this makes sense, I get you wanna have your super-secret tell but I think it's getting in the way of my ability to sort you in this game.

[datsi]

because ngl I feel like you're just reading my standard play as scum atp and the only reason it hasn't happened this game is because my playstyle is completely different

[datsi]

VOTE: T3
I’d rather just go with what I know has the votes at this point, time is at a premium.

[datsi]

Interesting Margot shows this caution for T3 but not for IV

[datsi]

Interesting Margot shows this caution for T3 but not for IV

She's been corrected on it already.

I was also less cautious because I thought IV was probably scum, whereas T3 is Town

why'd you vote him then :\

[datsi]

IV vote T3

[datsi]

Could this be a repeat of Radio Buzz D1?

[datsi]

(don’t actually want to specify that for now, just putting it out there for people who would get it to think on)

[datsi]

What happened in the buzz world?

I’ll clarify that once IV/T3 posts again

[datsi]

Also now that it’s over, I can say Mini 2236 kinda reshaped my entire image of salsa’s playstyle

[datsi]

I wanna figure out wtf was up with IV’s reads before hard pushing anywhere

[datsi]

Pushes on me rn are bad tho

[datsi]

I do think T3 is scum because Radio Buzz D1
I'm weighing whether I should examine IV's reads because tbh that can wait and/or be done by someone else, anyone should be able to see how all-over-the-place he was

[datsi]

By the way. The sand has become scorched earth, now the line is a crack in the glass.

[datsi]

I wanna figure out wtf was up with IV’s reads before hard pushing anywhere

They were scum, so the reads are not applicable anymore?

The idea is to see who they were distancing from and such

Pushes on me rn are bad tho

Why?
I think I've to reevaluate you...

I’m more bothered by Ari’s read on me
I don’t think I play EoD1 anywhere close to how I did as scum with IV and T3

[datsi]

I do think T3 is scum because Radio Buzz D1
I'm weighing whether I should examine IV's reads because tbh that can wait and/or be done by someone else, anyone should be able to see how all-over-the-place he was

What happened in radio buzz?!!?

2 scum became dueling wagons and their tepid interactions with each other made that evident
I think that happened again with IV and T3

[datsi]

is this what it’s like to do an Ico style catchup? woww

anyways back to work I got through a very productive 5 pages

scum are Datisi salsa and margot
Town are dwlee mewtaph and gamma

just some brief thoughts i had on my skim

townlean i guess

T3 - I remember meta'ing this guy back in DEFCON mafia but i feel like he's way different now this doesn't resemble either his town or scum game. Guy doesn't care he's posting every thought and just vibing. which is kind of what i do as scum sometimes too but i don't think it's something most ppl do. Being open about feeling disconnected from the game feels +town and i some of his content looks bad on the surface but he doesn't give a fuck and i think some of his takes were reasonable. The "mindmeld" with salsa post felt real and i think the excitement was genuine idk that was kinda townpingy i guess. flashvote on me was bad but he could just be trigger happy.

north of null

kyouko - anyone who proactively and early does a meta dive scumcase that clearly laid out with no bullshit can be a townlean, unless it's someone who i know can put in the effort as scum like datisi. maybe kyouko's a good scum player too so idk but fine keeping that slot around for now. i feel meh about trusting these kinds of tells because i think they tend to be mean-reverting more than ppl expect but i like the spirit

datsi - concise and nonpostury takes are very non-lamist. i think scum!gamma might be more lamisty and wordy which is the vibe i got from him in LN something

mew - idk i take back the faker comparison he seems to be very open about his thoughts and is very willing to explain everything he's thinking which is a plus - maybe he's scum good at faking this kind of stuff even under pressure tho idk seems redeemable at least

idk

datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too. sorry dayteezee i know u are good at getting ppl to townread you but not me yet. i feel like as i keep interacting with you ill get a better sense for your alignment

salsa - i get a T3/unabombah vibe from this slot very spammy and ico style catchup lol. granted una was scum in the game im thinking of but vibe here is very frazzled. idk i can't really put into words here yet but meh.

dwlee - i think some of their earlier posting was fine and reminiscent of our recent game but i wasn't exactly trying to read dwlee there so idk this reread dwlee didn't stand out like at all. idk

everyone else

nm is like 95% town for the miller claim because nm knows how to play mafia but doesn't care enough to fakeclaim miller as scum.

ari, chaos no idea

margot kind of blends into the background aside from that crazy E1? it feels weird that she feels obligated to update her reads list so much but that's probably just a playstyle thing. or a self conscious newb scum ha. regardless im sure ill get a better sense of this slot after voteparking her

i would attempt a dumb early solve but it's literally too dumb and too early so ill just wait until i get in the game a little more before utterly embarrassing myself (not that it's going to increase my read accuracy much anyway probs, lol)

I’m quoting these so either I or someone else who care to can parse these and see where exactly each read progressed to and why

[datsi]

By the way. The sand has become scorched earth, now the line is a crack in the glass.

Is this at me and if so what does it mean?

Yes it’s @ you
No I’m not clarifying further.

[datsi]

I wanna figure out wtf was up with IV’s reads before hard pushing anywhere

They were scum, so the reads are not applicable anymore?

The idea is to see who they were distancing from and such

Do you find anything? Finding such things aren’t my cup of tea

Pushes on me rn are bad tho

Why?
I think I've to reevaluate you...

I’m more bothered by Ari’s read on me
I don’t think I play EoD1 anywhere close to how I did as scum with IV and T3

Which game you're talking about?

I have an idea of where to look but no real leads from there.
I'm talking about this game mostly. Though I am kinda basing it off another game.

[datsi]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

[datsi]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

I just checked, you and

CO

were off wagon lmao!

That thought was constructed during the night phase tbh
And there were others off wagon (but in reality I do think that initial assessment was probably wrong)

[datsi]

Maybe the bolded is indicative of town!Datisi and scum!Margot? With the context of IV's flip, parking a vote on a buddy that isn't necessarily going to OMGUS you is probably one of the safest ways to ride out pressure. I'm not sure if scum!Margot was forced to bus though. Need to get context around their IV vote.

As far as I can remember now,

MR

scumread

iv

from early. Why scum!them would do that?

I think IV’s handling of Margot was possibly theater

[datsi]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

Including Margot?

I already said I rethought that

VOTE: datsi

i feel the most confident about this slot flipping red

i think last one is probably salsa but that is less confident

If you reread eod1 - I think its quite clear Datsi approached it in a very agenda'd manner.

I'm beginning to think your push on me isn't in good faith, given you haven't reconsidered it once despite the flips, meanwhile in mini 2226 you were extremely tepid after Meg flipped town
VOTE: aristeia
I hadn't considered that meta point until I went to write this, I think it's actually pretty solid.

[datsi]

Ari, are you just ignoring my 1369 because no one seems to give a shit about it?

datsi, how likely do you think it is both remaining scum were on the iv wagon D1?

I think it might still be possible but both enchant and dwlee were on IV and dwlee was kinda someone I thought might be sus on the wagon

[datsi]

were you involved with that game...?

[datsi]

its reasonable for me to think iv/t3 r scum/scum because I spent all of d1 suspecting both of them and voting for both of them

it is not reasonable for datsi to have that thought because he was hardpushing t3 and didnt even really suspect IV.

I was coming around to idea they could be S/S when I mentioned radio buzz
in that game two scum got run up near-simultaneously and they were figured out as partners because of how resistant they were to cross-voting. 1955 was my attempt to solidify the theory.

[datsi]

were you involved with that game...?

how is this even a relevant question?

because if you were then you should know what I'm talking about

[datsi]

is this some dumb pivot from salsa scum lol

While getting pressure, you're calling

ssbm

vig which now get cleared but narrow the list for scum and you're telling me dumb... hilarious af!

yeah, I don't exactly approve of Ari trying to call out the vig while under pressure

[datsi]

Ari, are you just ignoring my 1369 because no one seems to give a shit about it?

datsi, how likely do you think it is both remaining scum were on the iv wagon D1?

I think it might still be possible but both enchant and dwlee were on IV and dwlee was kinda someone I thought might be sus on the wagon

Can you like ballpark the percentage chance that you think both remaining scum were on iv's wagon and the chance both remaining scum were on T3's wagon end of D1 (this should be less than 100%, I'm not interested in one scum on, one scum off)? Trying to get inside your head here.

T3 (5) :

Salsabil Faria

; Aristeia ;

Datsi

;

Datisi

;

Not_Mafia

Exe-2
Innocentvillager (7) : ChaosOmega ;

Dwlee99

;

ssbm_Kyouko

; MargotRosa ;

Roden

;

innocentvillager

;

Enchant

Execution !
ssbm_Kyouko (1) :

T3

atp for me I think both scum being on the EOD1 T3 wagon are basically zero, and the chance both scum are on the IV wagon is like 20% as a very rough estimate because I think Aristeia is scum rn. Datisi is basically conftown from IV interactions, kyouko's solving feels pretty legit atp, and salsa I'm just hanging on to my earlier TR

[datsi]

just dont self vote and get yourself killed tomm if u flip me because tomm is mylo

Don’t know why you keep repeating this but

ssbm

don't self vote.

because the last time i saw kyouko hardpush a townie to death she decided to suicide vote herself the day after and almost threw the game to the scum.

I maintain my play improved town's chances at winning that game - there may have been a better line to take, but I feel like I got there in the end.

I probably would have gone after cephrir if you hadn't self-hammered before I got an actual chance to re-assess

[datsi]

What happened in mini 2226?

One of Aristeia’s strong SRs (MegAzumarill) was eliminated D1 and flipped town, and D2 she lacked any conviction to her play. This whole game she’s been pushing me and T3 as partners, T3 flipped town yesterday, and she’s shown none of the same doubt she had in that game. And before you ask Aristeia was town in mini 2226.
I also feel like there’s similar tonal indicators to her play in MBOS 13.

[datsi]

I’ll dive into my Salsa TR more later maybe but she felt like she did in Lemon Demon D1.

[datsi]

I don’t feel like D1 happens anywhere close to how it did if datisi and IV are partners
Datisi was like 90% of why IV got pressured as much as he did
I also see the call to claim and am stating I am a VT

[datsi]

In that game I was not right about anything so I felt a lack of confidence.

You were right about Prism?

[datsi]

Between this game and that one it seems your best reads are the ones based around seeing emotional manipulation

[datsi]

What happened in mini 2226?

One of Aristeia’s strong SRs (MegAzumarill) was eliminated D1 and flipped town, and D2 she lacked any conviction to her play. This whole game she’s been pushing me and T3 as partners, T3 flipped town yesterday, and she’s shown none of the same doubt she had in that game. And before you ask Aristeia was town in mini 2226.
I also feel like there’s similar tonal indicators to her play in MBOS 13.

my issue with this is that aristeia's pushback against iv being townread for ate heavily reminded me of her pushback against prism controlling the game in 2226. and how does she tonally remind you of mbos?

I do see the similarities in how she pushed IV and Prism. I feel like she’s in that same weird spot she was after RCE flipped where she kinda burned her bridges too much and is now basically railroaded along a path. This entire game she’s been pushing me as partnered with T3 and then conveniently comes in thinking my play D1 was trying to save my buddy. If that was a legitimate thought she had it shouldn’t just be coming out AFTER she miseliminated the previous chain she’d been using to push me.

That thought was constructed during the night phase tbh
And there were others off wagon (but in reality I do think that initial assessment was probably wrong)

can you elaborate on this? like, i know you walked back and said you think it's wrong, but if it's something you started thinking during the night phase, that means there was some more thought to it, no? i'd like to hear about it if possible

also you missed/ignored this

I was starting to get paranoid about Dwlee and I felt like he and Margot might have been dual ro3’d
Dwlee has since flipped town, but I still think IV’s read progression on Margot is a bit jank
Honestly I should actually pay attention to who had what stances on Dwlee because that kill was super weird IMO

[datsi]

I changed my mind. I was inspecting Datsi and I think my read was misplaced. I was TRing him for a couple of specific posts that looked like crumbs but if I ignore those and look at him as a whole (thanks Koba) I feel like I'm looking at scum. There's not really any drive here. There are some deeply charged posts directed right at me, just like there were in OMB. There's also a lot of suspicion being cast around at just about anyone.

VOTE: T3
The stuff you’re saying about him makes sense though

i find it kind of odd that you're lowkey sheepng aristeia on t3 when she's pretty adamant in saying you're scum? do you have any opinion on that?

I feel like she raises valuable point against T3 and wanted to see how she responded to me voting there
ngl, not exactly a fan of what I saw

I noticed this post 630 and it didnt feel right. His explanation is that he was sheeping her because she had a good point and wanted to see how Aristea would react, and that he wasnt a fan of what he saw. Initially I was TRing Datsi for this post. When I do the work though, there is nothing Aristea says or does in reaction to Datsi's vote. She makes 2 posts, both in response to Datisi. Neither address his vote. There's been no reaction. This feels like the classic "It was just a RT and I got something out of it (I swear)" that scum is wont to say when challenged on a suspicious play. I think he's just making it up.

I also think he's been softing something that is not vig, which is why I'm asking for massclaim today. Specifically I want Datsi to claim, but I didnt want to rouse his suspicion.

There's another post of his that I'm inclined to believe is likely wine specifically for me:

What’s the case for Margot again
I pretty much have had my entire perception of her vanish into thin air

He knows that I know that this is exactly the kind of post scum!Gamma makes about his partner. There's a possibility Margot has a more useful PR than IV and that Gamma and Margot worked together to counter Margot's wagon, and that it ended up with a town-led IV wagon. It's also possible that Margot is a victim of circumstance here and scum!Gamma would have made this post about any towny with a wagon to WIFOM me. I intend to review Margot more deeply should Datsi flip scum.

For now, I want to lim here, and I want a claim
VOTE: Datsi

I know Aristea and Margot had interactions with IV that make them both look not partnered. I feel like Datisi did too. The problem with that is it only leaves Salsa, and there are 2 scum left. Somewhere amongst those 3 there is scum theatre.

Do you townread

datsi

because they didn't have direct interaction with

iv

?

I think I've found a decent way to meta him, and he's posted enough of a certain kind of post now without the presence of the scumtell that I think he's just town here.

Part of why I’ve been not taking pains to really defend myself was to see how you took it. If you

REALLY

believed you had something with this, me falling off like I did shouldn’t change things. At this point I think you’re fudging it.
VOTE: kyouko

[datsi]

I also don;t quite understand whether you are scum reading either just me, or datsi and me. At various points in your post you seem to jump between the two.

On first brush, other than what I said above, I think that if you want to chalk the whole thing up to theatre, then surely IV spending less time defending against my push, but focussing on Datsi's should take suspicion off of me?

At various points in your post, which I had some trouble following, you seem to be going in multiple directions, and basically weave a story about a wagon on Town nearly succeeding but ultimately being derailed by a wagon pushed heavily by Scum on another Scum because of the theatricality which plays out one way, but then plays out in a different way, in which Scum focussing their attention on a player A is scummy for A, but also Scum giving very little time to player A is also scummy for A.

May I also point out that, the d1 wagon on Town player which I played a big part in derailing got up and succeeded again the following day, which I was explicitly against on d2

This post feels self-conscious in a really bad way ngl

[datsi]

@Ari, @Enchant, probably @ssbm:

Is there any universe where it's Salsa/Datisi?

ngl I thought this was initially a typo because I would be surprised if someone saw me and salsa as partners
In fact if Kyouko were town that should be a universe she’s taking a lot more seriously

[datsi]

FYI I’m currently of mixed opinion on Ari, I do feel like her play around IV feels in line with her play around Prism in 2226, but that’s not definite, and I do feel like her push on me throughout the game is incredibly poorly reasoned in a way that feels like she’s been targeting me for miselimination.

[datsi]

so you're claiming vig now? Because that's the apparent implication.
I didn't mean that as a crumb that I'd tracked the vig, had it been meant as a crumb at all, it would have been for something I actually found damning. I was specifically referring back to wording I had directed at kyouko before. That thing was not a game related comment at all.
And you've failed to actually explain whether you actually meant what you said about thinking my "tell" indicated I am town here.

[datsi]

atp I want kyouko to hard claim before I get yeeted
I don't want her to get to somehow back out of this and get away with it

[datsi]

so what was apparently the point of 1282 then?

vague aspersions, tbh

[datsi]

VOTE: datsi
enjoy your four-course meal of crow, crow, crow, and crow.