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[Aristeia]

I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell Roden not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partner

What is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?

are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?

[Aristeia]

Still wondering what IV wanted to achieve by selfvoting.

probably ate or make t3 look bad after he flipped red esp since datsi/me both thought it looked like s/s

[Salsabil Faria]

I know Aristea and Margot had interactions with IV that make them both look not partnered. I feel like Datisi did too. The problem with that is it only leaves Salsa, and there are 2 scum left. Somewhere amongst those 3 there is scum theatre.

Do you townread

datsi

because they didn't have direct interaction with

iv

?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I want to look at Chaos carefully actually first.

This interaction here was a big plus for me. Actually in grabbing this for you and rereading it I notice the bolded

Chaos, what happened to your suspicions on Dwlee? They seemed pretty consistent up to 942, then Dwlee makes 943 and you seem to drop it because he AtEs you. I thought this drop of the read was worse than it really was because I thought you made 1047

after

Datisi had just voted Dwlee (I was reading your ISO and recalled 1047 was made around the time that happened, but when I opened thread I saw Datisi voted in 1049).

Can you also go into your IV scumread? You said you'd follow up with it but didn't post the reasoning later on, just voted him

I still have suspicions of Dwlee, I'm just cognizant of previously misreading them and going off the rails (and you were in that game as well). Especially since they're not a viable option today, I'm tabling it for now.

True, let me go back through here. His opening, this is a minor point and I'm biased because I've seen scum do it twice now since I've been back, but his start where he's like livetweeting as he's reading supposedly to look town and give genuine reactions seems easy for scum to fake. I'm going to quote his read on Datisi from 694:

datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too.

This is also minor (which might be a trend), but this is a weird choice of wording to use. He scumread Datisi earlier in the game, the post has Datisi in null, so his read softened a bit it looks like, but wording it like this makes it seem like the bad push on his slot is most likely if Datisi is town, which he was arguing against earlier.

This also seems like a weird backtrack to make on Datisi's slot, he scumread Datisi previously, but now none of his actions are AI to him. It reads like he got Datisi to suspect him less, then lessened his own read to disengage and get suspicion off himself. I also think his scumread and park on Margot is lazy, but this might be more of a playstyle difference and I understand why he would be more invested in the read.

Mmm okay, that case feels genuine. I reread IVs ISO and dont see anything within to make me hesitate on him toDay.

VOTE: IV

This makes 4 votes I think. Last VC says (3) but only had 2 names listed. It's now 5 for T3, 4 for IV

Maybe the bolded is indicative of town!Datisi and scum!Margot? With the context of IV's flip, parking a vote on a buddy that isn't necessarily going to OMGUS you is probably one of the safest ways to ride out pressure. I'm not sure if scum!Margot was forced to bus though. Need to get context around their IV vote.

[Salsabil Faria]

I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell Roden not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partner

What is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?

are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?

Since when

T3

was an ic??

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know Aristea and Margot had interactions with IV that make them both look not partnered. I feel like Datisi did too. The problem with that is it only leaves Salsa, and there are 2 scum left. Somewhere amongst those 3 there is scum theatre.

Do you townread

datsi

because they didn't have direct interaction with

iv

?

I think I've found a decent way to meta him, and he's posted enough of a certain kind of post now without the presence of the scumtell that I think he's just town here.

[Aristeia]

kyouko you are just wrong

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell

Roden

not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partner

What is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?

are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?

Since when

T3

was an ic??

Aristea was talking about Roden. Were you talking about T3? It read like you were talking about a nightkill, either Roden or Dwlee.

[Aristeia]

I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell Roden not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partner

What is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?

are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?

Since when

T3

was an ic??

?

i thought you were talking about roden

what does you voting for t3 have to do with anything?

[Salsabil Faria]

I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell

Roden

not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partner

What is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?

are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?

Since when

T3

was an ic??

Aristea was talking about Roden. Were you talking about T3? It read like you were talking about a nightkill, either Roden or Dwlee.

No, I'm talking about

T3

, not sure about

Dwlee

nk, don't remember if they say anything nk worth atm but

Roden

was an ic so nk worthy and didn’t townread me iirr.

[Salsabil Faria]

I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell Roden not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partner

What is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?

are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?

Since when

T3

was an ic??

?

i thought you were talking about roden

what does you voting for t3 have to do with anything?

Lol, your case on me based on

iv

and

T3

elimination

[datsi]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

[Salsabil Faria]

Maybe the bolded is indicative of town!Datisi and scum!Margot? With the context of IV's flip, parking a vote on a buddy that isn't necessarily going to OMGUS you is probably one of the safest ways to ride out pressure. I'm not sure if scum!Margot was forced to bus though. Need to get context around their IV vote.

As far as I can remember now,

MR

scumread

iv

from early. Why scum!them would do that?

[Salsabil Faria]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

I just checked, you and

CO

were off wagon lmao!

[datsi]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

I just checked, you and

CO

were off wagon lmao!

That thought was constructed during the night phase tbh
And there were others off wagon (but in reality I do think that initial assessment was probably wrong)

[datsi]

Maybe the bolded is indicative of town!Datisi and scum!Margot? With the context of IV's flip, parking a vote on a buddy that isn't necessarily going to OMGUS you is probably one of the safest ways to ride out pressure. I'm not sure if scum!Margot was forced to bus though. Need to get context around their IV vote.

As far as I can remember now,

MR

scumread

iv

from early. Why scum!them would do that?

I think IV’s handling of Margot was possibly theater

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pure

Including Margot?

[MargotRosa]

I'm going to point this out, because it's a source of some confusion, though it will probably make me look worse in context.

When I first started seriously scum reading IV, it wasn't my longer post, but earlier at 526. They were at 2 votes (out of a necessary 7 to eliminate). I maintained that, up until the initial e-1 (which I did not handle well, and may have led to a quick elimination which I did not realise, due to being new, and not really thinking about the effect of the N_M slot), and then beyond that, easing off a bit only because I was aware that I had done something stupid, and which I shouldn't have, and stressing that I had overcomplicated and overthought the situation.

When I did push again in 1192, it was only once I felt confident enough to really spell out my reasons for voting the way that I did in clear terms. You are free to meta dive me; you can see the same habits of overthinking and overcomplication, which I historically have overcome with long, well thought out posts that I make when I have decided to vote for a slot, and to change that vote only if it is clear that the rest of the village won't join me (which would be stubborn and unhelpful).

The mathematical proof that a given strategy was bad in Newbie 2076 to vote (incorrectly) has been referenced by myself in a few games, but you can also look at the following post for an example of the same thing from the same game in which I use a similar style of deduction to, coincidentally, also vote out scum on d1:

So here’s one significant part of why I am convinced that Strange is the last scum, specifically the interactions between them and LQ on d1.

Rereading, their exchanges read so much like scum becoming increasingly frustrated by their partner and the overt scum tells he was giving off.

The dynamic that played out here, if it is between two Scum, is a pretty common pattern I’ve seen IRL. Obviously don’t have the experience of forum format to say whether or not it carries over, but I imagine it would to some extent.

The dynamic in question is when someone is when you have a scum pair, and one of the two is clearly giving off massive scum tells. Even if it’s not necessarily crystal clear for town, it’s clear for the other scum, because they know to look for the tells in the first place.

Generally, when I’ve seen it, it plays out in two phases. At first, there is genuine attempts to subtly deflect away from the scumminess of their partner. It’s always fraught, because if you lean in too hard, you become an obvious target for elimination in later days, so it has to be subtle. Where it really starts to show itself is not even necessarily the person doing the deflection, but in the perceptible differences in the way that their partner interacts with them.

In a d1 that was notable for just how wildly defensive LQ was getting about even the slightest hint of a scum read on him, basically the only slot that did not almost immediately spur instant defensiveness was from Astra/Strange.

Here's some posts, with some brief notes. Hope you can piece together the narrative I'm presenting here. Feeling a bit under the weather, so best I can do under the circumstances. Far from exhaustive. Tried to leave out stuff that could count but may also be very dubious.

Examples of defensiveness in response to:
Roden – 36 38 39
T3 – 125 173
Alstro – 132 146
Me – 144 156 317
Me and T3 – 150
Defensiveness tell in general (which had not been brought up by Astra/Strange slot) – 154 182

LQ responding in a less heated way to Astra/Strange presenting guarded SRs of him:
59 60 68

Back and forth between Strange and LQ (one example of a few, not much evidence of this happening with LQ and other players):
285 292 298 328

Mopre exchanges oin which he and Strange are, on some level (intended or not) backing one another up:
253 284

Literally first time LQ says something that can be even construed as testy towards the Astra/Strange slot is 342 when he tells Strange never to vote for a slot just for info.

Incidentally, is 342 a smoking gun? Does NP stand for night play, and LQ thought he was messaging in scum chat?) Strange’s response 344 is maybe the most obviously irritated I’ve seen them in game (though entirely possibly because it was a brisque way to address them irrespective of whether they were doing it to divert attention from LQ.)

LQ does vote for Strange in 349, but I don’t buy it tbh. It’s a really half-hearted dig.

I know this is very based in emotiion, but that was literally how we tagged LQ in the first place. Makes sense that their interactions might also reveal who his team member was.

You can see similar thought processes in the neighbourhood PT that I was neighbourizer of in Lemon Demon.

I worked as a director, not an actor, and am a political economist rather than a politician. I don't act, I think methodically and I nail slots though induction when I have enough information and data to do so. My failings are always, universally, because I'm not particularly good at the emotional, topsy turvy nature of the games I'm in. In Newbie 2076, it was an inability to understand that Roden had clearly worked out that he could beat me just by never giving me anything substantive to work with data wise. In Lemon Demon, it was because I got very emotional partway through the game, and Titus did a fabulous job of filling exactly the kind of supportive friend role that was required to make me emotionally incapable of scum reading her.

If you think I'm scum, then fine. I'm not sure that I'd blame you, and it would 100% have been on me. I do think that a few of the posts over the last couple of days have been off, and I'll put some reads together soon, which are all worth considering. I also would invite you to consider the fact that I voted T3 d2 only after repeatedly Town reading them, and was open about my vote coming from a place of 'this wagon has built up, I can't really think properly under these circumstances, and despite Town reading T3 I don't have much else to offer in terms of reads and I could well be wrong about this given my track record of doing very well d1 and failing miserably in my reads in days subsequent to that one'.

That's about as much defence of my play that is probably worth making honestly, and can't think of anything to say on the matter beyond answering specific questions that aren't answered here.

[MargotRosa]

Just realised the quoted post is another exmaple of my incorrect deductions rather than correctly deducing LQ was scum lol. I really need to get better strategies

[MargotRosa]

Datsi, why do you think the T3 wagon is pure? And why do you think IV's reactions to my scum reads are theatre?

Is the latter literally just a possibility? Do you have concrete reasons for either, but particularly the former? Or is it just gut?

Honestly, I still get really bad vibes from your slot, and coming in for a few posts with some short statements with quite literally nothing included to justify them is continuing to rub me the wrong way

[Aristeia]

VOTE: datsi

i feel the most confident about this slot flipping red

i think last one is probably salsa but that is less confident

If you reread eod1 - I think its quite clear Datsi approached it in a very agenda'd manner.

[Aristeia]

I would really be shocked if Margot was red here.

[MargotRosa]

It's probably a meta thing, but it's been triggering my scumdar significantly seeing Datsi's playstyle amounting to almost exclusively post unjustified statements that appear to be mostly gut instinct

I'm sure I've posted this before, but some classic examples from this game include 78 114 116 125 267 269 492 (which is extra funny, because you note it's the basic bitch version of your original post, but tracks completely with the posts you've been making otherwise) 570 627 634 684 (in which you just straight up say you don't want to explain yourself) 690 (which is part of a few posts in which you are slightly, and in a slightly odd way, protective of IV's slot [see also 711) and then skipping ahead rather than just linking to half of your posts this game, 1386 1390

This posts which have content just have no justification behind them. They are just statements you are making, mostly about unprovable gut instincts, which is fine, but only if you can justify them.

Idk, I can't tell if I'm reading too much into this. Just has been bugging me since d1

[Datisi]

i am tired because irl so let's call this a semi vla and i am getting to this game tomorrow and putting together something coherent goddammit

kyouko, i assume there's no point in asking you to *actually* explain your gamma read?

gamma, where's your head at today?

salsa, you have townreads on like, everyone except one person in the game, yet you don't seem too concerned about that?

[Salsabil Faria]

I don't remember of telling that I have townread on everyone. I've problem to read 3 person’s play style: one is flipped scum (

iv

), the other 2 (

Mew

,

N_M

) are cleared by mod and nk.

T3

was my scumread who flipped town. I had suspicion about

Dwlee

who is also flipped town.

Now, from the alive players I'm town locking you and

MR

for the way you guys played around

iv

's wagon but I'm also considering deepwolf stuff and that's why questioning people about their scumread on

MR

to understand (no one express any scumread on you yet, if they do, I'll question that too.

When I think there is a scum in

Ari

and

datsi

(leaning towards scum!

datsi

atm), on the other hand, there is a scum is

ssbm

/

CO

duo where I townread both of them which I need to figure out by iso diving which I don’t start yet.

And I'm less invested in this game because of my health issue. I'm not very bothered about anything tbh.