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[Andante]

Andres lock town. got it. sheep lock town.

VOTE: UglyDuck

[Andante]

VOTE: Andante I remember them thus they are scum.

OMG I AM REMEMBERED???? You must be mistaken. I can't be scum. not possible!!

[Andante]

This day start is interesting.... like, nice to meet yall too?

[Andante]

or are we just not talking and voting?

[Andante]

I bet we have a mailman this game who is the most fun person here.... so far all yall are boring

[Andante]

I bet we have a mailman this game who is the most fun person here.... so far all yall are boring

What should we be talking about instead? Half the people in this game haven't even checked in yet.

Well I mean, everyone showing up and randomly voting gets us nowhere, everyone has essentially the exact same message, like, idk, I hate RVS in general, but still, having the entire table go "haha (vote X)" yeah no thanks

[Andante]

especially if everyone is just voting different people... like, at LEAST make it a wagon on someone not this "vote the person above you" type thing

[Andante]

I bet we have a mailman this game who is the most fun person here.... so far all yall are boring

A mafia loud mailman would be so much fun lol I hope that's in here!!!! Mr./Ms. Mailman, if you exist, plz visit me I love mail!!!

[Andante]

How are you forming these scumreads? or are they not genuine

also, I read fua's name as "Fun" in my mind, so high chance I don't lim fua today. just saying

[Andante]

VOTE: andante
for the sanity of the gamestate

lmao you just wanna kill the game, me dead = no one is gonna talk

[Andante]

ehh like, there's definitely at least 1 maf in those inital voter people sure, I have more of an issue with like, they all "1 post" and left kinda thing, like, no attempt to engage withanyone, no effort to move anything forward. Here I am giving effort, and T3 is all "Time to vote Andante like, what do you want from me? the main person trying to shift the game into actually being played, yet you want me to shut up???

[Andante]

I honestly can't look at #33 being said from town like that

[Andante]

Honestly, it's a serious vote for me too VOTE: T3

Like, actively trying to prevent the game from moving forward, while doing nothing. It would be one thing if he was like "for the sake of the gamestate, vote andante"and then proceeded to do something, but saying that cause you know I talk a lot? and you know I get upset when tunneled for the wrong reason, you're the one trying to hinder the gamestate...

[Andante]

like, why would town care about me talking right now? and "for the sake of the gamestate" too... like, excuse me, do you prefer RVS? you want 10 pages of RVS? Like, RVS usually lasts forever, why does it even matter what I do right now?

[Andante]

I mean, I have to post when I can, I definitely have like 3 days coming up where I probably won't post, or I'll say like 2 things, uhhh have another day where I'm gonna be driving for 14 hours, also probably won't post then, so I'm here now, I'd like to try and solve what I can, I know this game just started so there's nothing, but I'm here for a good time, it's not like I'm just spamming, ok, 2 mailman random posts. so what? The random votes at the start? those sure are random, useless posts, I can't produce a 3/3 solve off nothing

[Andante]

your vote is still on me. vote goes off. then I know you don't SR me

[Andante]

How are you forming these scumreads? or are they not genuine

also, I read fua's name as "Fun" in my mind, so high chance I don't lim fua today. just saying

I disliked Scorp's RVS vote the most!

ehhh what makes you not like Scorp's? I think scorp's is fine, everyone after is kinda excessive to me

[Andante]

ehhhh influential/passionate mode comes out when I actually believe in the person flipping scum, 1 RVS post isn't gonna do it for me lol

I mean, I saw nothing wrong with "shortest name" like, NAI, I don't see how anyone gets anything from it, but after that one it's like, feels like scum is trying to blend in with town (yes I know I'm in there) something felt excessive about the number of people doing the exact same thing. kinda why I stopped it

[Andante]

ehhh what makes you not like Scorp's? I think scorp's is fine, everyone after is kinda excessive to me

the reason felt icky

serious question, based on the "shortest name" do you genuinely believe that's flipping red? off that alone?
Like, I could see someone being like "I'm suspicious cause of that, gonna keep an eye on them" but it kinda feels like you genuinely want to push for that

[Andante]

I mean yeah, that much is true, I definitely prefer a push like this that T3 going all "I'm gonna rxn test the one person trying right now" at least with Scorp it makes more sense, if day 1 could end right now, I'd be down with yeeting T3 right now

[Andante]

Andante is the obvious elephant in the room, but I'm not overly concerned at this point.
I know people can get really talky when they're scum but eh I'm mostly seeing enthusiasm.

LMAOOOO This is great. "Andante is talking a lot. Has to be scum indicative" So what, you prefer the "haha (vote X)"? you kinda have to talk to advance the game, also if you look at any of my past games, I just talk a lot in general, it's not alignment indicative

[Andante]

lmao I love the flavor, this will be my favorite game ever, what even is that? a Rooster x ....

[Andante]

ah nice!

yeezys(1) ~ Egix96(1)
UglyDuck(1) ~ Andresvmb(2)
Scorpious(1) ~ Natalya(9)
Natalya(1) ~ Oman(2)
fua(1) ~ Scorpious(5)
Egix96(1) ~ Retti(2)
Andresvmb(1) ~ UglyDuck(1)

So these are the "haha (vote x)" people and there's way too many for that to be all town,

The people that came back and talked were Retti, Scorp, Natalya

I might TR Oman, I know what they're talking about

Leaves Egix, Andres, UglyDuck, likely at least 1 scum in them


(I know it's crazy vague, but game just started, and that's where my initial suspicious go)

[Andante]

I mean, RVS, what sense does it make to vote someone and leave. isn't RVS about pressuring random people? getting some sort of random wagon going? cause 7 people with 1 vote on them is just dumb

[Andante]

like, it's like we're trying to go no where

[Andante]

I mean, so far I'm liking Natalya, not gonna lie

[Andante]

wow... Oman town, I don't see scum putting in that much effort this early

[Andante]

I need to V/LA till Friday, yall should be fine without me, once I'm back, I'll be a real gamesolver but yeah, finals are happening, gotta focus on that

[Andante]

nice!! the town club

[Andante]

wow... Oman town, I don't see scum putting in that much effort this early

What about the effort did you like, exactly?

I retract 119, I didn't actually read the giant post, there's something that feels off about an Omin post I just read tbh

[Andante]

Yeah, I’m not wasting anymore time “defending” myself. How such a weak push gains so much momentum is beyond me. As far as being “defensive”. That’s being manufactured, and people are buying it.I asked some obvious questions that anyone would ask. Good thing is, This train is giving me some information, though.

...information, such as?

Votes, and positions on the train.

I don't get what that is supposed to mean? Like, I would have assumed you were getting reads on the people pushing you, but you haven't really done that, in fact you gave a null/don't know stance on two of them so I have no idea what you're actually doing with this information.

So Natalya votes me based on.. I guess my joke vote.. whatever. As stated. I’ve never seen that. I’m also assuming not many others have as well. Then i ask, standard questions and get accused of being “explainy” and “defensive”.

This person obviously has some sort of clout to expect others to just buy into it. Eg-
The recruitment “attempt” toward Adente.

I look at this as a site regular with a bit of an ego expecting the train to go where they want it.
Could mean 2 things:
1. They feel they nailed scum, the ego won’t let them be wrong, and they are trying to solve.

Or

2.This person knows the player list and picked out a name they aren’t familiar with and
Decided to go the aggressive route. I feel this may be true because they have cut the legs out of anything I have said by calling it “defensive”. Or the latest question of why I wouldn’t vote someone for a post I didn’t like.

All I know as fact is that this person has decided they are going to focus on me, they have offered next to nothing on anyone else.

With all that said. I’m looking for the opportunistic votes here. Egix’s
Was bad but there are 12 days before deadline. So
Much time to formulate reads.

This post is so long, but, instead of studying for tomorrow's final, I have read it. Normally I'm all "long post = town" early game, but the reasoning behind this, like, yes Natalya started a random wagon on you, it's kind like, ok who cares? your reaction here...

> Decided to go the aggressive route. I feel this may be true because they have cut the legs out of anything I have said by calling it “defensive”. Or the latest question of why I wouldn’t vote someone for a post I didn’t like.

Like, I may have missed it, but I haven't really seen anything aggressive? I mean, I feel like in the end we're all here to have fun/a good time, so if you feel like any engagement with Natalya is aggressive, you're more than welcome to just not engage?

> All I know as fact is that this person has decided they are going to focus on me, they have offered next to nothing on anyone else.
There's not much happening in general. It feels like you're just super focused on this cause hey, RVS wagons pressure people, and supposedly everyone works best under pressure!! Pressure really isn't my method of choice, but I'm not able to be around as much as I'd like right now to do stuff my way.


Like, I could this coming from either town or scum, cause scum!Scorp would be like "this is dumb! yeah I'm scum but the reasoning sucks behind this" and town!Scorp would be like "The wagon on me is bad, people aren't trying, no one's listening to what I say"

idk, catching up, thought I'd react to this though, and hey, here's my first "true piece of content" for yall

[Andante]

Are you often slow to form reads/do anything with your vote on day 1? I don't understand what you're doing right now.

What's the rush? I don't understand why you're expecting actual reads from someone so far, like, I could see 1 or 2 TRs, or slight SRs, but typically people out stuff when they have it, and if you pressure them, they'll just say whatever

[Andante]

I mean, so far I'm liking Natalya, not gonna lie

I am too, I really like that opening, even if I was the random target.

This feels like a weird thing for him to say given how many questions he has posed towards me.

I'm not sure what the point of him questioning me is if he thinks I'm town.

I agree with this and the subsequent posts.
VOTE: Scorpious

Interesting. This seems to me like scum just blatantly sheeping someone's read in order to lay low. I may be wrong, but I believe that Egix is sometimes frozen scum?

I think I agree with T3 (lol I've never said that before) Egix is definitely becoming a SR of mine

[Andante]

How so? I’m not going to vote someone every time they do something I don’t like..

How do you view this post?

I think it makes sense for town!you to vote for someone if you think they made "the worst post of the game" rather than keep your vote on your RVS which means really nothing.

The fact that you don't really see your vote as a tool to pressure/attack people that you suspect makes me think you are not very interested in scumhunting.

Uhh what? you SR someone for not voting? I mean, my method of scumhunting doesn't typically involve talking with my vote? Like, engaging with people and talking to them is better than just a simple (Vote X)

[Andante]

I mean, so far I'm liking Natalya, not gonna lie

I am too, I really like that opening, even if I was the random target.

This feels like a weird thing for him to say given how many questions he has posed towards me.

I'm not sure what the point of him questioning me is if he thinks I'm town.

I agree with this and the subsequent posts.
VOTE: Scorpious

Interesting. This seems to me like scum just blatantly sheeping someone's read in order to lay low. I may be wrong, but I believe that Egix is sometimes frozen scum?

Nah, just low engagement because there really isn't all that much happening so far

Ok, but by this point, Scorp hasn't had low engagement, in fact it looks to be quite the opposite?

[Andante]

Andante is literally my favourite poster ive ever seen in my entire life. Good vote.

Ahhhhh I love this!!! <3

Also (I love the Snuggly Duckling:) )

[Andante]

VOTE: Scorpius E-2

Fua & Andante are town. Retti probationary town. Oman is too lucid and considered and I'm scared to have a read on them.

What made you decide to put Scorp on E-2?

[Andante]

Scorp’s last post seems like genuine frustration, but I can’t tell whether it’s frustration at being tunneled as a townie or scum upset that they got caught out of nowhere.

I don't think that frustration is alignment indicative,

And Scorp, in response to "we all know each other" I literally don't know anyone here, just recognize some people from past games I've played, and I'm me, and if people don't like it? not my problem! Scorp, you got this, just play how you play, I honestly like your lines so far, and as far as I can tell, there's like maybe 1-2 people "casing" (idk if I'd call it that) you and the others are just sheep on the wagon. Fam! you got this!!! I'm here for a good time, I assume you are to, and if you're town, we'll find maf, and if you're maf, we'll find your partners!!

[Andante]

Uhh what? you SR someone for not voting? I mean, my method of scumhunting doesn't typically involve talking with my vote? Like, engaging with people and talking to them is better than just a simple (Vote X)

I think when people's vote movement deviates from their stance in thread that it's a scumtell.

Because a vote is something that's important for a town player as it's the only thing we have to use to find the scum so we tend to use it liberally and slap people around with it.

Whereas a vote is something that's scary to use for a scum player as it leaves a trail of evidence that the town can later use to decipher your intentions etc if you are found out.

I'm saying that I think it's more likely Scorp is scum because he didn't use his vote to express his opinion, rather he kept his vote on his RVS instead.

I think Egix would be a great place to vote for pressure and to get more information as he hasn't really posted very much : )

I mean, I can't speak for others, but half the time I literally forget where my vote is,
> Scorp is scum because he didn't use his vote to express his opinion, rather he kept his vote on his RVS instead.
This just genuinely makes no sense to me, like, surely you know everyone has different playstyles. I think I'm still voting T3 yet just said I agree with T3, so am I now scum? I didn't change my vote to a SR...

Also, just like a general fact, getting people to E-2 is not the best method to get people to talk, I've never seen a situation in which good has come from "voting people specifically for pressure" like, I know I freak out and can't think straight when wagoned, so if you wagon people, they show up, go "oh crap! E-2!!!" and everyone is yelling "Give me your reads!!" yeah... maybe voting others has worked for you in the past, but SRing people for not voting? It's literally day 1, not much has happened, game is basically just starting, sure if it's late game and stuff isn't happening, then maybe??

[Andante]

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum.

LMAOOOO You just need to be a little more confident in your reads!!! You were right on me and T3, yet you let us talk you out of it I'm not scum here though, so let's not vote me out

[Andante]

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

Let's not meta me.... Like, just look at the context of the game.. I promise you, I get very clear on my alignment as the game goes on. And you have a much better use of your time right now by just looking at the context of the game, surely you have some thoughts on someone other than me?

[Andante]

Sorry for the million catchup posts, I honestly didn't even intend on talking here, but got sick of staring at notes, so was like, ok.. game time it is!!

Spoiler: Post 200 that I'm responding to:

idk, catching up, thought I'd react to this though, and hey, here's my first "true piece of content" for yall

i think like, ~assertively null~ is about where i landed on that post from scorp as well. it could go either way and i think i'd rather see scorp's analysis on others than see scorp's reaction to being wagoned more.

i have thoughts on your next post but won't speak for retti so will shelve that.

How so? I’m not going to vote someone every time they do something I don’t like..

How do you view this post?

I think it makes sense for town!you to vote for someone if you think they made "the worst post of the game" rather than keep your vote on your RVS which means really nothing.

The fact that you don't really see your vote as a tool to pressure/attack people that you suspect makes me think you are not very interested in scumhunting.

Uhh what? you SR someone for not voting? I mean, my method of scumhunting doesn't typically involve talking with my vote? Like, engaging with people and talking to them is better than just a simple (Vote X)

i agree.
do you think it's a playstyle difference between natalya & scorpious or do you think natalya is pushing scorpious opportunistically?

VOTE: Scorpius E-2

Fua & Andante are town. Retti probationary town. Oman is too lucid and considered and I'm scared to have a read on them.

What made you decide to put Scorp on E-2?

i'm a punk who does as they please
mmm originally it was a whim. i like big wagons, and i was curious to see if anything else happened. it lost a lot of interest to me when scorp made the post abt clique culture etc.

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

oh heck yeah i love a spicy read. my townread on andante is like, super lazy and premature, but i do think she's advancing the gamestate in a way that tends towards clarity rather than deception. i'm reading tea leaves here tho.

hope you don't mind me being granular. from meta analysis, do you think there's a particular mindset we should be looking for from andante to indicate her alignment? what struck you as different here (even if it's just like, a sentence or some gut feeling, what sparked that feeling?)

a game of 13 is usually 10:3 which means voting someone out because they're hard to read flips scum ~23% of the time. voting someone out because they randed scum works 100% of the time. so i'd rather vote out scum in this game, than vote out skilled scum players.

> i think like, ~assertively null~ is about where i landed on that post from scorp as well. it could go either way and i think i'd rather see scorp's analysis on others than see scorp's reaction to being wagoned more.
* I mean, Scorp reacted about as well as I would react in that same situation, you can't really analyze others when you're being pushed for something super minor, like, we'd all love to see more analysis on whoever from everyone, but playstyles, we all have different methods of catching scum.

> do you think it's a playstyle difference between natalya & scorpious or do you think natalya is pushing scorpious opportunistically?
* I'm still undecided exactly, but I'm more inclined to believe stuff isn't of bad faith, and just genuinely people being themselves, like, I'm trying to decided if Natalya wanted to keep pushing Scorp for thesake of pushing, or if she genuinely believes in her vote theory thing?

> i'm a punk who does as they please
mmm originally it was a whim. i like big wagons, and i was curious to see if anything else happened. it lost a lot of interest to me when scorp made the post abt clique culture etc.
* So the genuine frustration (which 100% can come from either alignment) changed your mind, but that was it? like, what are your thoughts on the whole "Natalya SRs Scorp for not voting" cause I think that's like the only legit reason for the wagon, and everyone else is voting to vote cause "we're not allowed to vote no one"

> my townread on andante is like, super lazy and premature, but i do think she's advancing the gamestate in a way that tends towards clarity rather than deception.
* lol good answer. Like, I see all the "Andante town" being said, but I literally didn't do much before this catchup

* I wouldn't rely on meta to read me, just saying, like, I am a very strong mafia player, town game is... needs work, but I have off site experience, and always get compliments on my maf game but also just like, I haven't played much mafia recently, sooo let's not solely go off meta lol

[Andante]

LMAOOO I SERIOUSLY LOVE THESE CREATURES, like, 1000/10 flavor this game, how does one even find snek doggo, or this "reindeer" lmaooo all these are making me laugh so much

[Andante]

my initial thoughts were that andante seemed very explain-y, overexplain-y but i wasn't reading closely so i'll give that a reassessment probably sometime tomorrow.

This is the second time I’m seeing this “explainy” word..

Please define it when you return tomorrow?

I’d like to know, in your words what it means.

And why is it bad?

Pedit- the rEINDEER is nothing short of genius

Oh easy, if I'm explaining "explainy" wrong someone can fix it, but I'm pretty sure I have an idea what Aza is referring to, and it's literally just the fact I use a lot of words when I talk, and I can ramble on about more info that you didn't ask for, thus "explaining too much"

[Andante]

I think Natalya probably has ~sincere conviction~ or whatever in her Scorp read, I just don't really think I see it, the questions he asked her are just asking her to explain her reads, which isn't exactly screaming "scum" to me. His response is weird but I would agree with Oman's assessment at the end of 115 that the votes on Scorp after Natalya look opportunistic in nature, which has me not wanting to go in that direction.

A thing that confuses me is that Retti/Oman believe the latter voters on the Scorp wagon to be opportunistic in nature but their votes are on T3, who is not voting for Scorp.

I was pretty explicit about why I made my vote in my post: It's better to have two strong wagons which cause people to move into "camps" and draw lines between each other than for me to vote egrix or whatever.

(I know this comes after the post I responded to you, but I was skimming, then went back to you instead of ignoring)
This one just read weird to me tbh idk, not enough for me to have a strong stance on Oman, but like "It's better to have two strong wagons which cause people to move into "camps" and draw lines between each other than for me to vote egrix or whatever." Who says this, this early in the game? like "ok, time to force wagons on 2 people and see what happens" it's definitely not my method of choice for how to play, but whatever, that post felt off though, idk how to explain.

And yeah, if it's a long post I'll tend to not really read it when skimming the thread, even though I know I produce a lot of long posts, but hey, sometimes you just say whatever, and see what sticks/people try to run with, like I knew I wasn't here for a while, wanted to see if people would jump in like "yep for sure town!!" just like the million TRs on me, like, are you saying it cause you genuinely think I'm town or you saying it cause you wanna try and pocket me, OR are youjust gonna repeat what everyone else says, it's like, yeah.

**So I didn't quote Retti's post, but this is in response to I think the first thing Retti just said, I see there's like 5 posts between them now

[Andante]

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

Cool, towny post, thank god that there's at least one person in this game that's an easy read that doesn't set the paranoid voices in the back of my head off.

See, I read that and was like, ok town, doesn't wanna get tricked by me again, funny. However, if the plan is to ONLY pay attention to me, and blame it on last game, like it'skinda sounding, that's where I get a tad suspicious. ESPECIALLY cause Aza basically started with like "we need to lim Andante to be safe"

[Andante]

about andante, im going to hold off on that for now. i have thoughts, a lot of them actually, but i dont feel good saying them right now because im sure i'll talk myself out of them and that'll frustrate me very much.

It literally sounds like you wanna scumcase me. You had the paragraph on me, THEN went to go read?? Like, yeah if you want me to be scum, you can spin anything I say into it being scummy "omg andante is talking me out of my read on them" like, I'm serious, if that's the plan for this game, I will honestly have no part of that

[Andante]

You know, Retti has kinda planted a seed in my mind, (not purposefully doing anything) and I almost can't unsee Aza scum in this moment

[Andante]

Like, I genuinely see Aza trying to use last game as a reason to push me here (as if that's gonna work) and use it as an excuse to not share anything about a read on me, like I have 50 posts, and to go "about andante, im going to hold off on that for now. i have thoughts, a lot of them actually, but i dont feel good saying them right now" What? What is the specific reason to hold off on me? So time goes by and you can "forget" or let time pass so you see what others say and go from there? I wanna hear some thought on me please

[Andante]

Cause later I know you're gonna claim I "talked you out of it" like, come on... like, honestly, I TR myself pretty dang hard right now, Iknow I've been towny, so I'd love to hear how "Andante talks way toomuch, thus she's scum"

[Andante]

VOTE: Aza I'm not convinced this is town lol

[Andante]

Aza: Votes Scorp
Aza next post: We should vote out Andante

What I think is funny though, Aza, if you truly are scum, all you had to do was ignore me, and there was probably no chance I really looked at you here, but instead, did you think you could 1v1 me or something? Cause I genuinely haven't done anything this game from a scum mindset. Maybe if you had like "this post wasbad" I'd be more friendly here, but I'm over here genuinely looking at people trying to figure out scum, and you're over there like "oh haha last game, I worked so hard to case Andante and I was right" like, ok... so what? it's a new game now, I'd bet you didn't read a single post from me before stating your intentions in your 2nd post.

[Andante]

either way i dont have any scumreads right now so im just leaving that vote there.

I'm genuinely confused. Like, back to talking about the Scorp vote, as if to ignore literally the only posts talking about wanting to lim me? you can't just drop that, say you're not outing thoughts on me, then leave. doesn't work that way

[Andante]

about andante, im going to hold off on that for now. i have thoughts, a lot of them actually, but i dont feel good saying them right now because im sure i'll talk myself out of them and that'll frustrate me very much.

It literally sounds like you wanna scumcase me. You had the paragraph on me, THEN went to go read?? Like, yeah if you want me to be scum, you can spin anything I say into it being scummy "omg andante is talking me out of my read on them" like, I'm serious, if that's the plan for this game, I will honestly have no part of that

why are you overreacting so much? i have specifically said i want to hold off on reading you and given my last game where i lead the push on you and let myself be swayed by you, why do you find any of this surprising?? i came in here and thought you were scum while thinking you were town in the other game. i just let scum you slip right out of my grasp and firmly believed you were town afterwards, to the point that i had you in my locktown category. now i am worried and trying my best to not make any hasty reads. i said my initial read and decided to go back and read again. is there a problem? i have said nothing specific about you so far besides my past experience with you and the fact that i will be rereading because of the game that just ended. i literally dont understand what your problem is when i haven't even given a firm read on you one way or another.

lets say i do want to scum case you and you are town, is that surprising? even just the paranoia from our last game together is enough to give me scumreads on you for the next five games. i dont understand your reaction to my posts - they make no sense.

hmm ok so i read some more pages and the only things i've got are that i feel very strongly that retti is town or their playstyle just appeals to me so much that i refuse to believe they could be scum.
i want to believe oman is town
i find scorpius scummy but i don't know if i necessarily think it's coming from scum, if that makes sense
about andante, im going to hold off on that for now. i have thoughts, a lot of them actually, but i dont feel good saying them right now because im sure i'll talk myself out of them and that'll frustrate me very much.
i think i'll just keep waiting for something to really ping me because so far im not really feeling solid on any reads.

Surely you didnt time that post specifically to pocket me right after I said I liked your post, right? >_>

im afraid im not capable of timing things that meticulously with my not consistent activity levels.

> i came in here and thought you were scum
* Do you not see my issue with you coming in here automatically assuming I'm scum and blaming it on the last game? Why can't I just be in the "to determine later" pile? why do I have to be scum? Like, if I had to read me, I wouldn't even try to figure out my alignment till a later day, literally just engage with me for reads on people if you're so concerned about me.

> i have said nothing specific about you so far
* your second post is literally going "I want to lim andante" like, I'm not sure why you did not see this one coming.

> i literally dont understand what your problem is when i haven't even given a firm read on you one way or another.
* I have major issues on how people read me, regardless of alignment lol and when I see it as an attack, I have to speak up. I won't stay silent, and let people say whatever, so if I interpreted what you said the wrong way ,I'm glad to clear it up, but I'm not gonna sit back while I see people bashing me here. Like, I work hard to find scum, and I don't need to deal with people going "well what if it's Andante" like, ok, so what if it's me? Ignore me and lets find others.

> lets say i do want to scum case you and you are town, is that surprising? even just the paranoia from our last game together is enough to give me scumreads on you for the next five games. i dont understand your reaction to my posts - they make no sense.
* Scum casing me for the sake of scum casing me is not something town would do, and I never see that coming from a town mindset

[Andante]

well i was going to say i thought i had a play style clash with andante but now i think we should just vote her out now because i was certain she was scum in my last game with her. i backed out of it and she just endgamed as scum. i need to read this game again with that in mind but my initial thoughts were that andante was scum here but that was under the assumption that she was town in the other game which is not true.

i spent a lot of time meta'ing andante for my last game and i can confirm none of her town tells showed up in her last game, but i still believed she was town off other things, so i'll have to give this game a good read when i have more time later.

you make it sound like the above post was accompanied by a vote. but it wasn't for a reason.

Unlike a lot of people here, I go off people's words. I couldn't care any less who is being voted. you literally said "i think we should just vote her out now" and I don't care the context, that is about the worst thing you can say to me, cause I put in genuine effort, I LOVE being here, I have fun. If I haven't been scummy, why the heck should we "just vote me out now"

[Andante]

about andante, im going to hold off on that for now. i have thoughts, a lot of them actually, but i dont feel good saying them right now because im sure i'll talk myself out of them and that'll frustrate me very much.

It literally sounds like you wanna scumcase me. You had the paragraph on me, THEN went to go read?? Like, yeah if you want me to be scum, you can spin anything I say into it being scummy "omg andante is talking me out of my read on them" like, I'm serious, if that's the plan for this game, I will honestly have no part of that

why are you overreacting so much? i have specifically said i want to hold off on reading you and given my last game where i lead the push on you and let myself be swayed by you, why do you find any of this surprising?? i came in here and thought you were scum while thinking you were town in the other game. i just let scum you slip right out of my grasp and firmly believed you were town afterwards, to the point that i had you in my locktown category. now i am worried and trying my best to not make any hasty reads. i said my initial read and decided to go back and read again. is there a problem? i have said nothing specific about you so far besides my past experience with you and the fact that i will be rereading because of the game that just ended. i literally dont understand what your problem is when i haven't even given a firm read on you one way or another.

lets say i do want to scum case you and you are town, is that surprising? even just the paranoia from our last game together is enough to give me scumreads on you for the next five games. i dont understand your reaction to my posts - they make no sense.

Do you feel like this is similar to how Andante reacted to you pushing her in that other game?

there's the game
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88224

[Andante]

it's just frustrating that they seem to almost think im not good enough to legitimately scum read them.

No, I don't think that at all, you're just all "I wanna vote andante now" "for reasons. I shall not explain my read" I WONDER why I'm so frustrated...

[Andante]

but now i think we should just vote her out now

> i wasn't really expecting to have to engage andante today

LMAOOO ok... right..


honestly, not gonna lie, I'm thinking the worst is the scummiest one around right now

[Andante]

which reads would you like elaborations on?

thoughts on the worst?

[Andante]

ugh i want to vote azaariah as well but i've committed to voting egix to pocket t3. such is life.

Posts like this don't really help me not sr you lol

[Andante]

the worst, why did you wanna vote Aza?

[Andante]

Sorry for losing my cool Aza... Probably should've tried to clarify stuff with you first, instead of running with my thought ._.

[Andante]

which reads would you like elaborations on?

thoughts on the worst?

they could easily be scum. they're taking on a more guide/mentor character (i tend to associate these with scum) but i get that list mods tend to be that way. beyond that, im not sure because i haven't paid basically any attention to them because most of their posts could swing either way.

mmk fair, Like, there's just this feeling to them, that for me, I think it's maf indicative. Like, everything about them is like "ok, majority is doing this, I agree!" and trying to joke around with like pocketing T3 Called me town in #168 when all I had done up to that point was "RVS SUCKS, LETS MOVE ON" idk, I try not to really out reads unless I'm really feeling them, but I'm kinda really feeling this one

[Andante]

I kind of like Duckie tho.

Ok, please tell me what you like about duckie though, that is related to this game

[Andante]

It feels like worst was angling to take advantage of Andante's over the top reaction to Aza there and escalate the tensions between them.

VOTE: the worst

That's exactly what made me go "hold up a second. I think the worst is scum" I went through the ISO, yeah, I can see it for sure

[Andante]

the worst, why did you wanna vote Aza?

Cause I know it's not a frozen scum thing, you probably are busy, whenever you are back, I would LOVE an answer to this

[Andante]

but in the mean time, VOTE: the worst

I'm doing this, and I genuinely have to go back to studying, but have no fear, I shall not forget about this

[Andante]

UNVOTE:

I have thoughts, but I don't need people getting ideas/ hammering anyone right now, hahahaha I hate finals :/

the worst is making me laugh, so I literally can't vote out the worst today I'll find a different SR in... about 60 hours maybe longer, idk, cant math, good thing all my finals are math related!! hahaha what if we just vote off whoever has the least amount of posts by deadline? That could be fun

[Andante]

lol T3 trying to revive the argument/whatever from last night. not gonna happen though I shall never lose my cool again!

[Andante]

Nah, aza is just going into semantics to shade Andante.

Doggo can not be shaded. invincible to shading!

[Andante]

in better words it just like he's not making any effort whatsoever to look good. Feels more like he's just playing at his own pace.

I mean, I see nothing wrong with playing at your own pace, like, what exactly is the content expected from Egix thus far? And why are the expectations on egix any different than anyone else here?

[Andante]

Like, take ugly duck for example, what makes ugly duck significantly better than egix?

[Andante]

Retti and TW are townleans for 227 and 172 respectively, feeling good vibes there.
Andante v Azah feels like tvt imo.
At the other end of things, I'm disliking 221 / 224 from fua because it feels like trying to get a cheap "gotcha" on someone.

This feels like plenty to me thus far, like, I know I'm not expecting massive reads lists, 3 people have been pressured, 10 are coasting, not too much going down

[Andante]

hi new JV, welcome to the fun!

[Andante]

Time for me to sit back and let the new JV and T3 solve the game

[Andante]

I don't know how to react without seeming condescending, so biting the bullet. Could you expand on what you're asking me?

I mean like

> Trying to expand on my townread on Egix feels like trying to explain a shitty townread on a scumbuddy who you dont need to interact with. I'm going to devolve and just yell "it's a gut feeling!!!", throw away my toys and walk away.

why do you *have* to have a tr on Egix now? can't just be null? idk, reading your posts it's like you're going "I have to have a read on egix" like, no you don't?? idk, might be misunderstanding what you're saying

[Andante]

the worst making me play mind games here.... I don't have much time, figured I'd jump in, talk, leave, guess it's time to leave. new JV and T3... yall got this!!!

[Andante]

the worst making me play mind games here.... I don't have much time, figured I'd jump in, talk, leave, guess it's time to leave. new JV and T3... yall got this!!!

I'll recycle the same question I asked T3 earlier what were you hoping to accomplish with this pop-in? Why did asking me that question advance what you were trying to accomplish?

oh easy, I wanna engage with you and figure out your alignment, I don't like all the "I can't read the worst" like ok whatever... just talk to people.. easy. and reading that I was like "why do you feel like you have to explain a tr on egix??" felt odd to say. and I'm not entirely sure what you were saying.

honestly, I was gonna read from 280, but meh, I'll save those reactions for later, scum is not prepared for what I'm doing after finals lol

[Andante]

ooh Retti is on my list to look into more when I have an hour. A whole hour dedicated to Retti!!!

[Andante]

Ugh, given the replacement I should also shift the vote somewhere. I'd honestly love to put Scorpius at -2 just to stir up the sediment and see what floats. But it's just such a bad wagon.

VOTE: Egix

What would throwing Scorp at E-2 accomplish?

[Andante]

If retti is maf, omin is partner

[Andante]

the worst making me play mind games here.... I don't have much time, figured I'd jump in, talk, leave, guess it's time to leave. new JV and T3... yall got this!!!

I'll recycle the same question I asked T3 earlier what were you hoping to accomplish with this pop-in? Why did asking me that question advance what you were trying to accomplish?

oh easy, I wanna engage with you and figure out your alignment, I don't like all the "I can't read the worst" like ok whatever... just talk to people.. easy. and reading that I was like "why do you feel like you have to explain a tr on egix??" felt odd to say. and I'm not entirely sure what you were saying.

honestly, I was gonna read from 280, but meh, I'll save those reactions for later, scum is not prepared for what I'm doing after finals lol

Was I genuinely just confusing or did you not catch Oman asking for me to explain Egix?

I didn't read omin's post, my bad. maybe I need to just not talk if I'm not reading what I missed, but like, hey, I know what I didn't read, I'll read it eventually

[Andante]

Andante..... have you cracked out the whiskey without me :c

oops....**slides glass over***

[Andante]

wow... Oman town, I don't see scum putting in that much effort this early

What about the effort did you like, exactly?

idk, something about this, I can see as maf going "why do you tr my partner" like, I know I catch myself doing it, so later I can be all "see!!! X was defending them!!" idk, there's been a few retti posts that I'm just like, I'll give Retti attention later

[Andante]

And cause I know Retti is gonna say something, yes Retti, have no fear, I'm actually gonna case you later and look into stuff, then I'll feel good about what you are, I shouldn't even be here right now though, so byeeee see yall later. I'm town, dw. just trust

[Andante]

And cause I know Retti is gonna say something, yes Retti, have no fear, I'm actually gonna case you later and look into stuff, then I'll feel good about what you are, I shouldn't even be here right now though, so byeeee see yall later. I'm town, dw. just trust

What I'm going to say is I thought you were townreading me? I'm confused

Uh I'm genuinely confused on my reads too, and there's no one I trust 100% here, so my plan after finals is to figure out my thoughts/concerns on everyone and go from there. I'm like playing 4d chess in my mind here,like "ok Retti probably town, however, if Retti isn't town, I'd believe that too cause of X,Y,Z" it's a nightmare. especially cause my reads are consistently changing at the moment, so uhh just ignore me, there's a reason I'm voting no one right now

[Andante]

Honestly, what if I just townblock Retti/the worst and deal with it later if one of yall is not town, cause that idea is sounding tempting to me lol I don't think I even tr the worst, but yall are active, sooo bam. easssyyy, but if ou're maf in my townblock, you better bus your partners. thanks

[Andante]

uhhh I don't get a calculated impression from you lol, just very engaged, I saw that list, it's on my list to react to (a mental list I have lol so we know how that ends)

but like, normally I tr the first few reads lists, but like, idk, a reads list on everyone, when half the table should be null, ehhh this list doesn't do too much forme, feels forced, like "I have to post this" which is likely a direct result from all the votes that direction, so mehh. this is why I hate wagon pressure lol

[Andante]

IDK if I'm just feeling petty tonight but I kind of hate those reads from Scorp

Same, but you have to remember, Scorp is basically being forced to out reads, none of those seem too genuine, so who even knows

[Andante]

I was just reading Scorp's ISO, and there's like a distinct shift in stance, talking to me like "why does it matter how people play RVS" blowing up, then a lot of "here's reads" something is odd about it, but as I was scrolling the ISO, I realized I really don't want to spend 30 minutes on this right now, but, I will stop blindly defending Scorp lol (sometimes I wonder if I even have town's best interest in mind when I play)

[Andante]

Like, it feels like, Scorpious was positioning to push me, with the reaction to me "caring about RVS" it's early in the ISO, easy to see, that alone is kinda odd like, if you're going "why do you care about RVS" why are you trying to stop me from talking at people? I know scum wants to stay in RVS as long as possible, but even for scum, why would they actively try to stop stuff from happening? like, that's where I get conflicted, cause scum would sitback, watch me burn something up, and move on with their day.

but on the other end of the spectrum, we have people not doing anything, and I guarantee town is in that, as well as scum, sooo it's a great time!!!

[Andante]

@the worst, Retti is town, just assume that is true, and move on with your day 1, together the 3 of us will find a scum today

[Andante]

uhhh I don't get a calculated impression from you lol, just very engaged, I saw that list, it's on my list to react to (a mental list I have lol so we know how that ends)

but like, normally I tr the first few reads lists, but like, idk, a reads list on everyone, when half the table should be null, ehhh this list doesn't do too much forme, feels forced, like "I have to post this" which is likely a direct result from all the votes that direction, so mehh. this is why I hate wagon pressure lol

IDK if I'm just feeling petty tonight but I kind of hate those reads from Scorp

Same, but you have to remember, Scorp is basically being forced to out reads, none of those seem too genuine, so who even knows

Yeah I guess, it's hard to describe it really, I don't feel like I have solid reads for the most part yet either, it's moreso the

way

he talks about things that bothers me, if that makes any sense.

yes, it makes sense, this is the 1 thing where I'm not just blindly defending Scorp, like, he was genuinely forced to out reads, but I'm trying to figureout his goal for day 1, it doesn't look like he's trying to find scum, more just "that's sus, why are you doing that" type feel, trying to throw attention in different directions, opposed to actually trying to find maf

[Andante]

fun fact: I read oman/Scorp as the same person when they talk, so that's fun

[Andante]

@the worst, Retti is town, just assume that is true, and move on with your day 1, together the 3 of us will find a scum today

that's a bigger problem than retti being scum, because i am not convinced retti is making an effort to form reads on people's alignments. that, coming from townies, loses games.

See, I think Retti is actively trying. Retti scum doesn't have to talk this much, Retti is questioning genuine stuff in reads, like me going "Oman town" and retti like "what was towny?" kinda implies Retti would SR Oman, and wants to know what they're missing, and why I see oman as town. idk, reads wise to me, retti feels fine (I do stand by if Retti is scum, oman is partner... but the logic is still the same)

[Andante]

do you read people's posts in like, internally-assigned voices?

LMAOOO umm no, it depends what the post is for how I read/interpret it, usually need a few posts to judge the intent behind what's being said, thus I work best with looking at ISOs lol instead of just reading to catch up

[Andante]

the worst. retti. yall areboth town. ok, time to no longer waste time at each others throats. I think we can all agree the 3 of us are not scum together, and unless you both are scum, there is at most 1 scum in this town pool. ok. with that in mind. we have at least 2 scum outside us. if we work together. easy game

[Andante]

I think with our 3 minds working together, this will be an easy game.

[Andante]

LMAOOOO omg the worst is actually amazing, I love this duck so much

[Andante]

Retti... we're gonna leave the worst alone...

[Andante]

I get super bothered when I get attacked for stuff that is blatantly not true

Yeah same, however. The 3 of us are working together whether you 2 like it or not, at least for day 1, we will be limming scum here, and you're the most engaged thus far, so I think you're a perfect teammate, and the worst is kinda funny/can probably be useful in someway, so just hear me out, I'm only asking for day 1, we find the scum outside this trio. ok thanks! Day 2 feel free to tunnel the duck, but not day 1 here

[Andante]

(I mean, yes, he's correct in that my reads have been slow to form, but that doesn't mean I'm not actually trying to sort people)

As far as I can tell you're actively trying to sort people, so why does it matter if 1 person doesn't think the same? just keep doing what you're doing!!

[Andante]

@the worst, Retti is town, just assume that is true, and move on with your day 1, together the 3 of us will find a scum today

that's a bigger problem than retti being scum, because i am not convinced retti is making an effort to form reads on people's alignments. that, coming from townies, loses games.

See, I think Retti is actively trying. Retti scum doesn't have to talk this much, Retti is questioning genuine stuff in reads, like me going "Oman town" and retti like "what was towny?" kinda implies Retti would SR Oman, and wants to know what they're missing, and why I see oman as town. idk, reads wise to me, retti feels fine (I do stand by if Retti is scum, oman is partner... but the logic is still the same)

What's the case for Retti and Oman being partners if the former flips scum? I might have missed something there.

no case. Retti town.

[Andante]

Then why did you mention it multiple times?

I mean, I clearly already explained it when I did mention it, but Retti is town, so don't worry about it.

[Andante]

Ok, see yall in... idk how many hours. I seriously need to go, literally had no intentions of talking this much lmao

[Andante]

I get super bothered when I get attacked for stuff that is blatantly not true

Yeah same, however. The 3 of us are working together whether you 2 like it or not, at least for day 1, we will be limming scum here, and you're the most engaged thus far, so I think you're a perfect teammate, and the worst is kinda funny/can probably be useful in someway, so just hear me out, I'm only asking for day 1, we find the scum outside this trio. ok thanks! Day 2 feel free to tunnel the duck, but not day 1 here

*sighs deeply*

okay. I'll try. (I'm having a bad night for reasons unrelated to this game and it's probably coming through more than I'd like).

In your opinion, who should I be looking at?

lol I swear I'm gonna fail some finals tomorrow... got an 85 on the Monday one so that's good I really need to stop checking this...

And hey, if you're having a bad night, you can always just take the night off from this, I have so much fun here, so I really try to keep stuff happy as much as possible lol

I honestly haveno clue where my stance really is on anyone outside you 2, Iwas literally gonna bring up fua earlier, like, felt like fua has really fallen off the grid, but I didn't look through the ISO, fua was definitely here at the start then dissapeared I think? Or just talked when I wasn't here, thisis why I didn't bring it up, cause I haven't even skimmed the ISO. This game is like, me you worst, Scorp/Oman are the same person, and everyone else blurs together

[Andante]

Spoiler: don't open until d2 or andante will fight me

i think i'm townleaning retti now and i'm not sure i'm aggressively townreading andante anymore and that makes me feel like aza is more likely to be town oohhhhh i need to lay down

Good thing it's not d2 yet

[Andante]

and ANOTHER "Lol i didn't even read" post from Andante.

Yeah, like believe it or not, I have almost no time to be here right now, but when I see something I want to react to, I do, even if I'm not fully caught up. I'll reread what I missed, don't worry about that, Like fam, I don't mean any disrespect to you, at all. Finals are almost over, the 2 today are the bad ones, pretty soon we'll be back to regularly scheduled Andante gamesolving.

that "alliance" was to get retti and worst to stop tunneling each other right now and to actually look into others, I mean if you genuinely want to lim one today, I'm happy to listen to the case, but as it stands, I don't see anything that makes me go "I'm limming them D1" so like, I don't want to lim either of them, so why would I want them to case each other for 10 pages here? makes no sense to me.

And uhhh if wallposts are what you want from me on people I'm happy to do those, but like, I generally get more from talking to people in real time, so what I missed 30 posts? I didn't miss much content, still able to jump into conversations.


And someone was complaining about me having so many posts, you are more than welcome to take the title of "most posts" away from me, but talking is how you drive conversation, conversation is how you generate reads. I either have a lot of short post or a few mega long ones, sooo be careful what you ask for...

[Andante]

Can y’all not hammer Scorp in the next 24 hours, like what is the actual rush? Scorp, if you’re town, just keep doing what you were doing not this, cause the whole selfvoting/ “just hammer me” stuff is dumb and if you are town we learn nothing from your flip if you do that before you go over

[Andante]

There is 0 reason to ask for claims right now, a hammer should not be happening. Half the table hasn’t really talked

[Andante]

Get Scorp off E-1 right now.
You don’t put someone on E-1 unless you want them to go over.

[Andante]

I’m on mobile so I’m not going through this, but right now, Natalya/T3 are screaming scum, Dwlee is just “lol I’m sleeping T3” I will elaborate later, but Natalya/T3 are scum here

[Andante]

*sheeping T3
Lol stupid phone

[Andante]

Scum will toss on E-2 no problem, town is more likely to hammer an e-1 there

[Andante]

Like, Dwlee could be scum, but I just see them as carefree right now (recently started actually trying) I think pushing a dwlee wagon here is dumb, a wagon on T3/Natalya would give more info, I’m not really interested in the whole “lets pressure dwlee” idea right now, also i’m staring at like 4 posts I like right now

[Andante]

lol the mindmeld comment was the exact thing that suddenly made me go “I wouldn’t mind a T3 wagon right now”

[Andante]

VOTE: T3

[Andante]

I’m currently feeling good about fua/Dwlee (mainly saying this so when I come back later I know my reads)

it’s not just cause they’re voting with me, but more like I genuinely feel like they’re thinking the same thing I am on T3 right now, and I don’t feel like scum would be like “yeah no Dwlee wagon is bad” and like, they both have genuine reason here, i’m on a bus on my phone, yall can have better thoughts later lol

[Andante]

3.literally “Adante’s inferno” of posts.

hahahaha I love this

[Andante]

Ooooh what did I miss about UglyDuck?

[Andante]

do i vote uglyduck?

why do you need permission?

it's scum!T3 trying to shift the blame for a wrong vote lol

[Andante]

Took a look back at Azaraaiah and I was very charmed by 196 where they came in talking about being paranoid of Andante having just seen her endgame as scum in that other game and then us making posts calling each other towny within a minute of each other. Looking back that post isn't as strong as I thought on seeing it initially and it's actually a bit waffly but I still like it a decent amount in that they were holding back on saying stuff in the game to wait for info from that other game rather than trying to make a splash right away. However beyond that I do actually really feel like the worst has a point about them being noncommittal, there's a little too many instances where they talk a lot about someone without much in the way of a definite conclusion (e.g. 245, latter part of 272). I do like that they committed to a strong scumread in 517 but want to hear their explanation as to why, which they offered and haven't given. I think honestly I still kind of want to townlean them just for sounding pure when I read through their posts but probably want to see a bit more

I'm not sure I really understand why people are townreading dwlee. Since replacing in they've essentially made a few naked bandwagon votes and that's it. Not seeing anything in the way of trying to actually solve people? I didn't really like the response to Natalya in 500 either, just felt overly defensive. Leaning scum.

Aside from my vague distrust of the worst which is apparently a result of me being A Person Who Does Not Get Jokes, I think he's been all right and is trying to move the game forward in a productive way and all that, which is good and I don't want to vote him, but I can't bring myself to feel comfortable calling him town based on anything he's done. IDK. This is a shit non-read.

I feel like my suspicion of fua this game has been because every reason they've jumped on for voting people has been so

basic

but I recognze that not everyone thinks the same way I do, probably a big difference in playstyles here? Think the way they were pushing scorp to give actual content was pro-town rather than simply just piling on to him and them getting fired up arguing with scorp in 321 felt very genuine. 442 is an unobjectionable post as far as reads go but I want to see more solid stances (I realize this is perhaps hypocritical given my output so far, but also I don't care lmfao). I

hate

the dwlee read in 506 though, tnough to take away a townlean. Null.

Ehh, I can't get over my dislike of basically everything T3 posts, I know he can be jumpy as town but the way he mostly seems to be latching on to whatever someone else is pushing at that given moment skeeves me the hell out and nothing yet sells me that he has sincere conviction in any of his reads.

I actually took the time to examine that recently completed scumgame from Andante and I think she's pretty different here. In that other game she was frequently defensive and concerned mostly with attacking people, and just felt...irritable in all her posts. It could just be a change of circumstances in that she's under less pressure here but she just seems a lot more carefree and happy and is actually trying to work with people. Just as an example I don't think she bothers trying to break up me fighting with the worst if she's scum this game, having a big fight continue to rage is tremendously useful for scum and actually playing mediator the way she did is something scum rarely do, in my experience. It does alleviate some of the concerns I had with how she seemed to be glossing over posts or drawing hasty conclusions in a way that could have easily been scum faking reads, but there was a little bit of dynamicness to her thinking that seemed okay. Probably need to dig deeper into her reasoning but I'm all right with slotting her as town for the moment.

Went back and checked Natalya for 5 minutes and went "yep still town okay bye"

Oman contentwise has also been

fine

, I felt sympathetic to them getting frustrated with the game but they seem to have fallen off a bit. Still like their earlier posts, though.

Despite me snapping at Scorp it feels like he's...trying? I feel way more sympathetic to his reads list after going over the game myself bcause it's

hard

to get a handle on anyone. I feel like he might be town who got off on the wrong foot and reacted badly to getting pushed. I put no confidence in this read.

Egix is...IDK. He's lurking hard, but 269 and 444 weren't

terrible

? Concerned that he could be scum doing the bare minimum though.

Andres slips closer and closer to scum territory every time he shows up just to prodge and promise content to come soon™

Kind of eh on uglyduck, but I think if they come back and post more they'll be more readable.


It feels like I am completely unable to get much in he way of solid townreads and normally in a game on day 1 I

should

have a little more than that but it's just very hard for me so far, it feels a bit like everyone is in a staring contest or something and no one wants to be the one who blinks.

Town, in order of strength:
Natalya
Andante
Azaraaiah

Null
Oman
the worst
Scorpious
UglyDuck
fua
Egix

Scum
dwlee
andres
T3

I really need to catch up and react to this on an actual level - noting for later

[Andante]

Andante, why do you scumread Natalya? Honestly very confused by that read.

I sr natalya? if I'm being completely honest, I don't remember like anything from this game. looks like everyone TRs T3 now? I just spent 13 hours driving, woke up 2am,drove, now im tired, but figured I'd check in, see no other votes on T3, and T3 asking permission to vote... mmmk I'll ISO myself/ catch up tomorrow,I was gonna iso people and compare to your reads you just gave to see if I agree/not and give thoughts.

[Andante]

Andante, why do you scumread Natalya? Honestly very confused by that read.

I sr natalya? if I'm being completely honest, I don't remember like anything from this game. looks like everyone TRs T3 now? I just spent 13 hours driving, woke up 2am,drove, now im tired, but figured I'd check in, see no other votes on T3, and T3 asking permission to vote... mmmk I'll ISO myself/ catch up tomorrow,I was gonna iso people and compare to your reads you just gave to see if I agree/not and give thoughts.

...this game is going to give me a migraine

IM SORRY!!! I'll get back to you with an updated natalya read later

[Andante]

omg my iso is painful to read LMAOOOOO im so sorry yall

[Andante]

In fact, I might just VOTE: Scorp.

VOTE: Scorp
claim please

unvote

I'm not really comfortable ending the day this early.

What information do you think we would get from you Scorp if we were to flip you here?

Ok, so I will say that I wanted to explain more on that cause I was mobile, and mobile is a pain, I didn't realize Natalya unvoted, and I was like "I KNOW NATALYA IS VOTING, WHY IS SHE NOT TAKING HER VOTE OFF???" I don't think maf would be bold enough to put on e-1 and go "claim" that early, so I'm pretty sure dwlee town, but T-3 there, I SR T3 a lot. like "oh hey im putting you e-2 lol" immediately after egix stuff.

I sr t3 the most right now....

[Andante]

went back to read and collect thoughts just for you retti

[Andante]

yall. dwlee is town, stop wasting time there, dwlee aint scum, maybe traitor, but not mafia

[Andante]

I tr you off the vote thing, idk what any of the recent stuff is about didn't read it lol

[Andante]

but yes, I'm that confident

[Andante]

That game was not the same at all lol E-1ing gamma there versus here. Gamma and Scorp are no where near the same...

[Andante]

Gonna assume that means you were here and ignoring 684 and 685

or I literally just scrolled up 5 posts

[Andante]

That game was not the same at all lol E-1ing gamma there versus here. Gamma and Scorp are no where near the same...

@Andante I still would like to know why you think this is completely different from Dwlee scum e1ing Gamma in PYP.

the e-1 was day 2 yes?

day 1 gamma selfvoted and day 2 I believe gamma also selfvoted, gamma's behavior was much different than scorp here

[Andante]

That game was not the same at all lol E-1ing gamma there versus here. Gamma and Scorp are no where near the same...

@Andante I still would like to know why you think this is completely different from Dwlee scum e1ing Gamma in PYP.

the e-1 was day 2 yes?

day 1 gamma selfvoted and day 2 I believe gamma also selfvoted, gamma's behavior was much different than scorp here

The e-1 was on D1 after Gamma flailed and self-voted.

It is also similar to how Scorp is playing this game.

ok, after gamma flailed and selfvoted... you don't see the difference in gamma/scorp?

[Andante]

That vote was like a glowing red flag to me too, for what its worth.

THE WORST AGREES WITH ME? AYYYYYYY Still not sure why I came back as the only T3 vote though... but at least someone else agrees that vote was scummy.

I'm starting to think Natalya insisting Dwlee's E-1 vote was scum indicative isn't in good faith. like, keeps referencing the game I was in, I'm like "dude it's not the same" and she's all "it is the same!!" like, Gamma self voted, I don't see scorp selfvoting?? Like, if Natalya is town, there has to be a point natalya goes "ok, I'll just keep this in mind, but I'm gonna stop tunneling off this 1 point" the more natalya keeps at it, the more I sr her

[Andante]

can we stop discussing why that vote makes Dwlee maf? I still tr dwlee. it's literally not off the vote alone, it's off a few things, there's so many better votes than dwlee here

[Andante]

I ISO’ed DW. I don’t think they’ve actively solved too intensely. At the same time, they sound like Town to me. Their argument with Natalya at the very least is not SvS. And if Natalya truly is making a bad case against them, then that needs to be scrutinized some more.

I sr natalya more than dwlee

[Andante]

the worst is the best at mafia

[Andante]

I don't wanna vote Aza yet. Can we just vote T3?

[Andante]

Yall seriously made UD claim? what even... do I have to start being more active and yelling? literally just get T3

[Andante]

Fair warning that we have a single day left to come to an agreement.

yeahhh

[Andante]

Lol yall ain't ready for try hard andante!! I've seen Aza's name thrown around a lot, took a look at the ISO, it's definitely an odd one, I'll give thoughts/TLDR at bottom

i also have two reads that i am very much committing to and will actively fight against either of their elims. im just explaining why i have no other reads at the moment. it's not noncommittal, it's explaining what im considering with most of these players and why there is no conclusion currently.

^ So, ignoring all the Andante talk, This is the first post that strikes me as odd. Why are 3 sentences needed to go "I have 2 TRs I don't wanna lim" it would've been1 thing to go "I TR A and B, do not want them out for these reasons: " but we aren't even told who these TRs are. That shows how much Aza really doesn't want to lim them... Like, if you're saying "im very committed to actively fighting against lims" wouldn't you at least say who?

i also have two reads that i am very much committing to and will actively fight against either of their elims. im just explaining why i have no other reads at the moment. it's not noncommittal, it's explaining what im considering with most of these players and why there is no conclusion currently.

Do you think scum is more likely to post something like you did or would they just sit on what amounts
To essentially to “town reads”? In your opinion.

i dont think it depends on the person rather than the alignment.

Forgive me. Can you clarify this?

i didn't completely understand the question but assumed you meant do i think scum are more likely to post long noncommittal reads or short and straight to the point reads. and my answer is that neither depends on alignment. someone who posts short direct reads as scum, aren't suddenly going to be pouring noncommittal reads out as town. someone who posts noncommittal reads as scum, isn't suddenly going to be posting short direct reads as town. it's really rare that there is a difference in one person's play that is something like that because of their alignment. what that means is that neither is a direct scum or town tell.

^ 304 feels like maf going "yeah scum would do this, see how I'm not doing that?" Scorp was basically questioning the first post I found odd, and again, still no mention of these supposed TRs, they must be deeply TRed by Aza... and 304.. yeah no, like even if scorp's question was interpreted how Aza thought, I find it kinda unbelievable that town aza here would miss the connection to their list of TRs from the "would scum do this" question.


These next 2 go together:

dwlee-scum really is that obvious

oh hey i agree with this actually.

VOTE: dwlee

my initial reaction to their first posts was 100% scum. i'll try to explain it later.

^The common theme of "I'll explain it later" and I love how it took Aza 2 minutes to realize they wanted to vote Dwlee after going "I agree Dwlee is obvious scum" if your initial reaction was 100% scum, why didn't you say anything at the time? but instead you waited for someone to call it out, like, if you are town, and you have a "100% scum" reaction to someone, I see no reason why you would keep that info to yourself.

scorpious, hold off for a little moment because your every post calls most of the people here scum but that cannot be correct even just based off of the game setup.

also, i think dwlee immediately assuming natalya is using meta is a red flag. if dwlee knows who natalya is, it's less of a red flag but if dwlee doesn't, it's a really big red flag

^ "everyone here can't possibly be scum" ok, what's the purpose of that if it's not trying to get people's attention back to Scorp for "SRing everyone" I mean, I think Scorp is well aware everyone here isn't scum, scorp is actively making reads if scorp is calling people scum. And Aza, sinceyou like the worl of "what would scum do here?" Think, what sense does it make for scum to SR everyone, Scum knows town, and they'd much rather go TR lots, and SR the lhf.
And, how is assuming meta a red flag? regardless of alignment? Dwlee is either your partner you're trying to bus cause you think they're more obvious than they are, or you're pushing Dwlee cause others were, your Dwlee push has not felt genuine at any point so far.

scorpious, hold off for a little moment because your every post calls most of the people here scum but that cannot be correct even just based off of the game setup.

also, i think dwlee immediately assuming natalya is using meta is a red flag. if dwlee knows who natalya is, it's less of a red flag but if dwlee doesn't, it's a really big red flag

Perhaps, maybe once I can post in this game without having it critiqued.

I think you are scum as well..

Tell me who isn’t..please

Sorry I have to revisit this.

What is the pre requisite amount of town reads I should have right now?

Are you saying that the ratio of scum/town reads is AI?

Also,

Telling me that the game setup doesn’t allow everyone to be scum is kinda dumb.

when you have too many scumreads, it just means your reads are impacted too much by scumreads on you. your reads are filled with too much paranoia. that is my experience with reads like your previous ones. i just wanted to point that out and hope you would think about it. that's all.

^ What even is this??? like, we're more concerned over how many SRs Scorp has than reads of our own. Having too many SRs "due to paranoia" uh what? It's perfectly reasonable for town to be in Scorps shoes there, assuming it's scum with the unreasonable pushes, not Scorp's fault that town are acting scummy. These Aza posts are actually so odd, Aza literally can't be town...

Natalya is saying I'm obvious as scum

That's meta

It's also not true but that's cause meta bad

what natalya said can be interpreted a couple different ways and i think you thinking this way first is scum indicative

^"A couple different ways" like what? If I go "Aza is obvious as scum" there's 1 way to interpret that, and it means I've seen past scum games of yours before and I know how you play as scum, Aza's response here of "so many ways to interpret, the way you did makes you scum" like what?? Are you even trying to find scum this game? Like, if you're bussing your partner, you're doing a terrible job of making it look natural, and if you're trying to build a case on town, uh it's not working lol.

Azaariah - Lots of interaction with Andante, then Retti and Scorpious. Whole first part of their game is the back and forth with Andante read. At first I was skeptical because of how they kind of open ended it with the "not dealing with Andante today" stuff. But then they continued to engage and came to the same conclusion I have so town points there. I do not like #95 where they say they "have thoughts on the game but will wait to say"... but also they voted for scorp in that post, so I guess not that open doored. I like their general playstyle and content to date... would like to know what the recent dwelee bit is about though.

i'm selectively reading up and i don't like this at all. the conclusion is fine. im not sure how to explain this actually. if someone could give me some more specific questions about this read, it might help me figure out how to explain this read.

but i am ready to explain the dwlee read if anyone wants that.

> would like to know what the recent dwelee bit is about though.
> but i am ready to explain the dwlee read if anyone wants that.
Like, you're quoting someone wanting more Dwlee stuff from you, and your response is "if anyone wants my reasoning for Dwlee 100% scum, I'm now ready to explain" like, what made you just now "ready to explain" reasoning behind the 100% sr... I don't get town vibes from aza at all. nothing about this feels like town.

my initial thought is that i feel like ugly duck is coping my thought process around andante whether purposefully or not. i tend to see that as scummy because when town see something familiar, they are more likely to townread it. but at the same time, i don't think this read is actually that simple. there's something about that paragraph that i genuinely just dislike on a level that i dont know how to explain right now.

^ To go from only talking to/about Dwlee and Scorp, to now talking about UglyDuck... this is a weird transition lol "Something about that paragraph I don't like" wow... super specific... like, what don't you like? Any sort of info to help get reads off others there... bad transition for sure, feels like Aza is pivoting to give attention solely to ugly duck.

i have a hard time believing dwlee actually scumreads uglyducks. the wagon analysis is not my favorite either. i feel like there's just a bit too much focus on how much they are frustrated as opposed to content. in general, the reasons to vote people aren't going to be that good. votes are just ways to express that we agree with a certain thought. nothing more nothing less.

dwlee seems to flip between frustrated/ateing and extremely towny solving from these last couple posts and i feel like it's sort of the panic of a player who is struggling to figure out which scum tactic they should use. i might be thinking too much but im willing to mislim town on day one because i think this flip gives good information anyways. the worse case scenario is just a pr out and that sucks but we'll still be fine honestly.

^ and attention back to dwlee? " i might be thinking too much but im willing to mislim town on day one" WHAT IN THE ACTUAL HECK IS THE THOUGHT PROCESS ON THIS. As an actual town here, I'll say I'm not knowingly going to mislim a town "for reads" my vote is going on who I think scum is. "should still be fine if we out a pr" like, which team is aza playing for? cause it's surely not sounding like town.

it's not towny at all to be flipping between the two. feel free to explain your scum read on me later but wording is not a scum tell.

^Does Aza expect to not be SRed after any of those above posts???

i did read the "wagon analysis"
scum hop on is a really lazy way to sum up my posts in this game. i did not read the other reads because i didn't feel inclined to. in general, it feels like you are ateing but trying to cover it up with "solvy" posts. i find the solvy posts on their own pretty towny but with the ate, i don't feel good about either.

^Who cares if a "solvy post" has ate or not? If someone is solving the game, that's typically towny, and it's towny to quote/mention specific parts going "I don't like this part of it" like, you talk about someone solving, but no mention of if you agree with that solve it's just trying to find a way to discredit it. "There's ate. so it's bad"

im not sure if it's as damning as i originally thought anymore but that still doesn't really change my read on dwlee overall. i feel like there's a lot of desperation that just shouldn't have been there. this was a part of the ate but i think the desperation to dig themself out of the hole was pretty bad. someone earlier said that dwlee wasn't ateing but that isn't true at all. nearly every post from them has had some form of ate. being frustrated at natalya and oman was not really justified. neither was unreasonable in any way, there was no reason to be that frustrated.

i always have a hard time sorting people who are this emotional about scumreads but i don't actually think this emotion is real. it genuinely feels to me like an attempt to shake us off. im willing to go into post by post analysis though i really prefer not to because that was exactly what threw me off of andante last game. i see towny things in scum's words when i look too hard and that's annoying.

i want to say the emotion is getting to me because i feel for it very much but i dont want to let go of another read that im confident in. i will read up i swear. just not right now.

^And now that we finally have to explain our Dwlee SR, "im not sure it's it's a solid explanation anymore" like, I thought you were 100% confident earlier. Pushing Dwlee after every little thing they said?

ok i've thought about it some more and i want to compare it to what andante did earlier. this feels like dwlee is trying to replicate that. im not completely sure if that's an accurate assessment but that's the best way im able to put it right now.

^Comparing someone to something I did?? Excuse me. is that just cause you know my name is being associated with town, so if you go "X is just like Andante!!!" you think that has people town lock X???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

TLDR: Aza is flipping scum. That ISO is actually so scummy. we never learned the 2 names of TRs Aza never wanted dead here, took forever for Aza to explain a "100% SR" and trying to discredit people cause "You have too many SRs, your reads are bad" and "You were solving but used ate so it's bad"
I don't think it's even possible for Aza to be town here, and if anyone has opposition to an Aza vote, I'd love to hear it, but I think Aza is best to go today. Aza if there's any points in this you wanna refute, I'm happy to talk, but I'm not sure you can convince me you're town based on your actions thus far.
VOTE: Azaariah

[Andante]

How in the actual world was aza town... like there genuinely wasn't a single towny thing in that ISO...

[Andante]

I'm down to vote T3 out

[Andante]

I’m back in a bit. I’m finally on vacation so I can read.

lol vacation so now you can read?? my "vacation" is turning into almost no time to read...

[Andante]

I still don't tr T3, so I am good with t3 vote

[Andante]

I recall a T3 town game where he was like screaming town, that is not this game

[Andante]

VOTE: T3 that's e-1

[Andante]

only reason I was hesitant to do so before was cause it was e-1 before, but in the past 12 hours I see no reason to not vote

[Andante]

lol I swear if this is a town flip

[Andante]

it's ok... I don't think it does

[Andante]

lol 2 of my TRs were maf... I definitely contributed to that loss... my bad team... I still had fun though!!! Thanks for hosting!