Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: not known 15

Because you suck.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also Koba towm

[Gamma Emerald]

Just in case anybody thought it was a joke, me and Not Known 15 are actually neighbors. I claimed kind of impulsively without them even sending anything at all in our neighbourhood. I'm aware neighbours means I can't 100% trust them, but I don't know how to play around this!! I need help and I figured you guys could help..? (since I can't 100% trust them yet maybe asking

them

for advice wouldn't have been a good idea?) Maybe Not Known 15 might end up hating me for claiming it, but whats the worse scum can do..? Kill us? At least town can work with this info in mind now though.

wait theres more than 1 hood?

i am actually in a hood with dwlee thats why i instant voted them and i claimed traitor to them and their reaction sucked ass

they claimed it was a joke but yeah

theres prob a traitor in the game if dwlee flips scum

frfr?
Thank GOD I’m not in one

and yeah I’m gonna VOTE: dwlee99

[Gamma Emerald]

dwlee x not known 15 scum team gg ez

And surprisingly NK15 wasn’t the one to choke if that is the case

[Gamma Emerald]

waow tell me how you really feel

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

Surprised given I can see it on my device rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven’t played here in months wdym I feel “different”, like it could just be the fact I took a break

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven’t played here in months wdym I feel “different”, like it could just be the fact I took a break

idk it feels pretty sus like something about that "thank GOD im not in one" felt like something a mafia might say :raised_eyebrow: like mafia dont wanna keep up with that stuff right? so many efforts for them..

nah I’d just pocket whoever I was in it with, or die trying

[Gamma Emerald]

marci feels actually slightly town. Not for outing the hood itself, I like the lightheartedness in their posts, feels natural.

Lion's 55 gives me negative vibes. I can't put my finger on it if it feels rather artificial or over the top. Obviously there is more history, I am just not sure what exactly else he was expecting there. Feels more like making more out of it than it actually is.

Then again I agree with him that dwlee's response wasn't great.

VOTE: dwlee99

This post also sucks. Soft push buddy but vote town is the vibe I'm getting from this.

What do you make of a POE of {Lion, Testarossa, dkoba/marci}?

meh, meh, bad

[Gamma Emerald]

come on HEM, reads plesase

why dont u give reads so it could help them figure it out !!

they have been

[Gamma Emerald]

lolwut
I actually think you're town here koba???

[Gamma Emerald]

if nk15 is the non traitor scum then rofl

I have not seen any credible explanation.
As soon as I begun questioning them I landed in koba's scum pile.
This is scum. VOTE: Koba

btw NK you had literally not even posted in thread at the time of that quoted post, so can you elaborate now, having that pointed out to you?
because it seems you're looking for a reason to vote me <3

I was actually referring to a later post when you listed me at scumreads.
Now, koba, again:

From where do you have knowledge about this game being town vs traitor plus

one

full scum

?

You’re reading into that way too much lol

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think traitor + solo scum would pass review due to violating the idea of “mafia being informed minority”

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: NK15

just for funs

also reasons

ngl this feels vaguely like town nk15 vs. scum nk15

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really rate his towngame or his scumgame very highly but the way he's trying to apply pressure feels like town!him

[Gamma Emerald]

btw have I lost the plot and we're letting dwlee go rn or what

[Gamma Emerald]

outside the traitor claim thing, the biggest thing that sticks out to me is dwlee justifying their rvs vote, it feels overwrought, so even outside the hood deal I have dwlee as leanscum

[Gamma Emerald]

outside the traitor claim thing, the biggest thing that sticks out to me is dwlee justifying their rvs vote, it feels overwrought, so even outside the hood deal I have dwlee as leanscum

Do you think scum!Dwlee panics around town!Koba like that though? It would be a stark contrast to how SCP went.

maybe
we were all scum in a normal at one point

[Gamma Emerald]

GL is probably my leading suspect aside from dwlee rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I just get a vibe that's similar to his play in the white flag game where he was scum (the one cyrus62 modded)
I'll say your specific thought process does feel distinctly towny, HEM

[Gamma Emerald]

that's just bad theory imo

[Gamma Emerald]

that's just bad theory imo

don't call it bad until we know if I'm right or wrong

"bad theory" means regardless of whether it's correct or not, it's a bad assumption to make
hoods are like the number 1 thing people go pants-on-head about, including me sometimes

[Gamma Emerald]

what is even going on between you two

[Gamma Emerald]

as in my reads?
you, marci, koba, and nk15 are TRs for me rn
dwlee and GL are suspects

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm in a bit of a weird mood rn, I'll explain later
nk15 feels actually like he's trying to contribute, scum!nk15 I would expect to feel less like that
marci I think is just vibing town rn
I dunno about pocketing but I don't entirely grasp what GL's trying to say rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I dunno about pocketing but I don't entirely grasp what GL's trying to say rn

which part, ask me if I am confusing you

my brain is not operating at full capacity rn
if I'm still confused once I'm at full function I'll ask, but I won't bother you rn

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: guiltylion E-1
This game is dead af, let’s at least make something happen soon

[Gamma Emerald]

Wtf is this garbage wagon? Is there any particular reason you guys want to vote out the only person keeping the game alive? Like do none of you see that the further this wagon builds the more quiet this game gets? Game state alone shows that this is a wagon on town and that scum are just waiting for town to hammer for an easy Day 1.

VOTE: guiltylion E-1
This game is dead af, let’s at least make something happen soon

Game is dead so you want to vote out one of the top posters??

I will likely end up unvoting if anyone declares intent bc on principle i tend to keep high activity slots around+ i have a hood to send in a legacy provided dwlee keeps towntelling in our hood

Intent to hammer

LULW

[Gamma Emerald]

(I am aware that is some gotcha-ism but like, even with the facetious intent, that’s rather sketchy behavior imo)

[Gamma Emerald]

also i think roden/gl are a potential s/s pair

Maybe
Something about the way Roden came in against the GL wagon feels rather sus
Actually, I think I have a good idea of what alarm bells are being rung here

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

[Gamma Emerald]

oh and gamma remembers exactly the way I scumread roden in SCP upick

Maybe? I’m kinda working with my own set of sparknotes for reading Roden
Speaking of which
VOTE: roden
Just on tone he feels kinda scummy, I don’t think this is 100% success rate but it has been decent iirc

[Gamma Emerald]

also i think roden/gl are a potential s/s pair

Maybe
Something about the way Roden came in against the GL wagon feels rather sus
Actually, I think I have a good idea of what alarm bells are being rung here

oh and gamma remembers exactly the way I scumread roden in SCP upick

Maybe? I’m kinda working with my own set of sparknotes for reading Roden
Speaking of which
VOTE: roden
Just on tone he feels kinda scummy, I don’t think this is 100% success rate but it has been decent iirc

So are just repeating Open 835 again or are you just scum

el em ay oh
This is not a town response.

[Gamma Emerald]

also i think roden/gl are a potential s/s pair

Maybe
Something about the way Roden came in against the GL wagon feels rather sus
Actually, I think I have a good idea of what alarm bells are being rung here

oh and gamma remembers exactly the way I scumread roden in SCP upick

Maybe? I’m kinda working with my own set of sparknotes for reading Roden
Speaking of which
VOTE: roden
Just on tone he feels kinda scummy, I don’t think this is 100% success rate but it has been decent iirc

So are just repeating Open 835 again or are you just scum

el em ay oh
This is not a town response.

Last time you said that, I was town and successfully pushed out scum while you were tunneling a townie

Rather than debate the finer points of past games, how about you try and explain how you aren’t scum in THIS game? Your entire defense towards Koba has been “you’ve never been right about me”.

[Gamma Emerald]

Koba stop falling for Roden’s tricks
This is the same lame defensive maneuver we had to keep Nancy Drew from overdoing in Townstumps

[Gamma Emerald]

Koba stop falling for Roden’s tricks
This is the same lame defensive maneuver we had to keep Nancy Drew from overdoing in Townstumps

Literally what tricks?? Koba is going after

me

. I town read them, they're just way off course with everything they're saying.

You’re making things about past games rather than the present game
Your read on Koba has literally zero to do with it but nice attempt at a misdirect

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma

The L-1 vote with no conviction even though he's mentioned GL as a suspect reads bad, like he knows GL will flip town and is already trying to pivot. It coming right after GL's post that my vote is +town for bravery is a funny juxtaposition. Have to go, will be back on later tonight.

I only really voted there in order to progress the game, with the expectation being that I would cause some reactions from folks were weren't okay with a hammer happening. I do feel like GL's reaction is at least okay rn. Meuh I'm a little interested in her reaction but Roden's was definitely the one that pinged me immediately.

Also, I'll back the statement that Koba has a good read rate on chaos

[Gamma Emerald]

Koba, Gamma: Why did you move off GL and hopped on a Roden wagon? Yes, I know that you SR both.

I’m actually less convinced GL is scum than Roden is. Both of them have given me vibes of past scumgames tho, and I think that’s a weirdly solid sign for me specifically

[Gamma Emerald]

Koba stop falling for Roden’s tricks
This is the same lame defensive maneuver we had to keep Nancy Drew from overdoing in Townstumps

Literally what tricks?? Koba is going after

me

. I town read them, they're just way off course with everything they're saying.

You’re making things about past games rather than the present game
Your read on Koba has literally zero to do with it but nice attempt at a misdirect

that's a gamma-trick not a roden-trick
i got a flashback of u saying i have 'antics'

The antics thing was FFXIV right
also, wdym that’s a me-trick, are you still talking about focusing on past games? If yes, I’ll admit you have a point but I do it as BOTH alignments.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

This is more of what I'm talking about. You've either learned nothing from Open 835, or you're just scum. And I really hope it isn't the former, because at this point you scum read me for catching scum and if I'm ever correct then I'm bussing, you scum read me for having accurate town reads and if I'mever correct then I'm informed, you don't think it's possible for me to accurately town read amd defend a townie at E-1...

Like, just fucking say you think my town game is garbage already. If you think I can only ever have correct reads as scum then there's no point in ever trying to engage with you.

I don’t feel like this is like open 835, is the thing! That game it felt like I could actually talk to you. This game, and in past games where you’ve been scum, you’ve had a hostile aura.

[Gamma Emerald]

Just bcuz I do something as both alignments doesn’t make it so everyone else does.
Also, my style of referencing other games is different to what I said Roden was doing. My method is more of a “this thing happened in xyz game and makes me think yadayada”, it’s not a direct response to pressure, and instead is a pattern-recognition situation #justNDthings
@tictac

[Gamma Emerald]

I made no posts between these two. Koba just made a joke about not listening to other people at all when I asked them to consider they could be wrong :^)

Do you mind giving me your current reads of the players (town/scum/null)?

@tictac: Do you mind giving me your thoughts on my other post to you, re: Meuh?

HEM/Gamma scum

NK/Marci/Koba one scum

your reads are trash

[Gamma Emerald]

My brain has been churning and I think I am at the point where I agree with Roden’s idea that the game being stagnant when it was indicates GL is town. That doesn’t really alleviate my feelings on Roden tho, it just affects how I see GL

[Gamma Emerald]

My brain has been churning and I think I am at the point where I agree with Roden’s idea that the game being stagnant when it was indicates GL is town. That doesn’t really alleviate my feelings on Roden tho, it just affects how I see GL

I can't agree with that. The game was stagnant because there was hidden resistance to the GL wagon, which immediately surfaced when GL was put to E-1.

Why did it ONLY surface at that point?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

Is there motivation for scum!Roden to make that defense for town!GL?

Yea
Pocketing GL, as well as turning things onto me

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn't post intent, I placed the E-1 vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Just would like to clarify about your E-1 vote to GL: did you actually believe that GL could be scum when you voted or was it solely to get reactions?

Both, though mostly the latter

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm 100% confident Roden doesn't "swoop in" to defend me like that as scum, there wouldn't be a need to

actually why tho

because I'm town and at E-1, what on earth does scum Roden gain from pushing so hard against the wagon that he attracts attention/votes instead? I'm useful to keep around scum should want me gone

I get that it will look different to someone who doesn't know my alignment but I give exactly 0% chance Roden had any scum agenda to what he posted. The better question is why do you think it's a scum-indicative action?

I think it's scum indicative

how

he went about defending you. It felt like he had too much skin in the game there. The only feasible explanation I could see for town!Roden to have felt that way would be if he had a tangible townread on you before the E-1.

Is there motivation for scum!Roden to make that defense for town!GL?

Yea
Pocketing GL, as well as turning things onto me

???

What? How could I have possibly planned for you doing anything that you did?

didn't you only really start defending GL when I put him at E-1?

[Gamma Emerald]

Like I myself binned GL for now and was only pressuring them bc of the reasons you stated there, but I have nowhere seen anything that makes me feel I should townread them here.

this is a bit of a mood
it's rlly great when two read sources give v contrary ideas of a person's alignment. gamestate suggests GL is town but on vibes he's scummy

[Gamma Emerald]

that tracks
you just feel a bit like you were in the white flag game (I mentioned this earlier but I wanna mention it to you directly, see your input)

[Gamma Emerald]

okay that actually makes a ton of sense to why I thought this was similar

[Gamma Emerald]

NK15 I think has been pushing a lot of bullshit and doing it in this extremely obstinate/confident way that I think feels surface-level town in a "it seems like his beliefs are genuine!" sense but doesn't actually demonstrate an evolving/sorting mind. like his entire gamestate view has been oriented around me being scum from the very start and has not once significantly deviated nor reassessed (I know he very briefly voted Koba but I think that was for show), and I also think he's a smarter dude than to genuinely believe in assigning scumreads to everyone who townread me like he did in 586. no evidence in my mind of him not playing to suit an agenda. also I think the initial fixation on the traitor talk was odd and possibly informed of presence of a traitor in the game. would lim with no mercy

you might have a point but he's demonstrated a severe ineptness at solving in past games

[Gamma Emerald]

@Dwlee:

You are the only other player here who was also in Superfight. What do you think of NK15's play this game compared to there?

NK kinda just flopped immediately there so I'm not sure what to expect of his scum game if he doesn't do that.

yeah his scumgame is extremely weak

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote: ChaosOmega

Putting my vote here for now to apply pressure + also that they were on the GL wagon, though there's a good chunk of other low posting people I'd also like more content from (tictac, marci, NK15).

all of those "lowposters" have more posts than you.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm busy rn but I'll do that ASAP (which will probably be tomorrow morning)

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma:

Can we get an updated town/null/scum reads list?

Town: GL, Koba, NK15, marci, tictac
Null: HEM, ChaosOmega, Meuh, ShadowGirl
Scum: Dwlee, Roden

[Gamma Emerald]

im confident that Koba, Meuh, Dwlee99, marci. townvibes from tictac but there really isn't anything strongly townie about them. i like NK15, but i dont know if the mindmeld is organic or they're trying to pocket me.

Gamma deserves a wagon just for putting GL in E-1.
Roden deserves a wagon just for their activity around GL's slot, how they're responding to Koba's pressure. Also, after voting me in #240 — there was no push in him to build a wagon on me. I wonder why, especially since the read and the vote stuck around for 20+ pages.

I want to know who's against both wagons.

ok nvm this is prolly scum
these are bad surface-level takes

[Gamma Emerald]

okay thanks for this post because i took a closer look

Whats the difference between roden and meuh that makes you think that the meuh defense came from town and the roden defense from scum?

first, my impression was meuh had townread GL all along. i also thought her explanation for gamestates differentiates her from Roden's angle (which was GL was obvtown). but i wasn't sure enough, so so i looked. but to my surprise, that's not the case. she was scumreading him.

so im going to consider this.

I think there’s a pretty significant difference between Roden & I’s approaches to the whole defence counter push anti-wagon criticism movement or whatever you wanna call it

My read on GL was like, slight scum lean at first, but the stagnant game state irked me and made me reconsider

Also my push against the GL wagon wasn’t primarily motivated by my read on him, it was mostly because:
-I wanted to fight against him being put on E-1, which I thought and still think was an anti-town move from both Gamma and Dk. I tend to feel pretty strongly about some mechanical play and that’s an instance that I felt strongly about
-I don’t feel strongly about GL (or most people, really)’s alignment, like I said I haven’t gotten into this game that much, but I wanted to contribute. That was one of the best ways to actually help out with the game despite my lack of strong feelings. Poof, I gave people more material to read me off of and I helped motivate some more discussion, overall I’m happy with it
-I especially wanted Dk to shake up their reads instead of being overconfident about GL’s alignment, because I think they were tunneling and confbiasing pretty hard, which isn’t really productive. (and also frustrated me lol) That’s why most of the posts I initially made about the GL wagon are directed at Dk.
They changed up their vote which is cool although their reads haven’t seemed to have gotten better from where their vote is placed now but that’s okay

If you look at the posts I made the evening E-1 was placed, you’ll see that I don’t actually take any stance about GL’s alignment, because I don’t really have one to make. It’s mostly me being critical of the points Dk was making.
523 is the most I discuss my stance about GL’s alignment at that point and it’s vague and made to make Dk reflect, only saying I think it’s “fairly likely” for a scenario where GL’s town to be true

That’s why I felt less and was less committal, I didn’t and still don’t feel that strongly about GL’s alignment. Because of that, my motivation towards pushing against the wagon wasn’t motivated as strongly or in the same way Roden’s was

ngl your thought process seems somewhat abrupt but I think there's a nuance to it

[Gamma Emerald]

why do you scumread dwlee gamma

I haven't seen anything to go against the point that they reacted poorly to Koba's traitor claim

[Gamma Emerald]

no one answered who would quickhammer a player as town in this playerlist

so this discussion is just a distraction and meant to avoid critical thinking about the action itself

the thing is that was not exactly a point I myself had considered. Instead, I figured if someone did quickhammer they were making a pretty substantial misplay no matter what, plus I had about a 40% expectation that someone would unvote in response to my vote, which would be a talking point.
Also, it's irrelevant since I was the E-1 vote, but depending on my mood I would potentially quickhammer as town.

[Gamma Emerald]

I haven't seen anything to go against the point that they reacted poorly to Koba's traitor claim

dwlee is very good at image management. i dont buy that as scum, he blunders immediately in koba's hood when koba jokes about being traitor and here when he immediately picks a fight with Koba, Testarossa and you.

you in this case was GL.

maybe you have a point?
how would you expect scum!Dwlee to respond to a traitor claim in a hood?

[Gamma Emerald]

Meuh im gonna be honest with you i think you're town

I'm feeling this way too

[Gamma Emerald]

use it immediately against Koba and attract townreads from the protown activity of scumhunting.

that tracks

[Gamma Emerald]

slight townvibes from shadowgirl's recent posting

[Gamma Emerald]

i feel like theres too many ppl that feel informed/scummy here which indicates a certain universe and it starts making things make sense - and if that isnt the case, i told dwlee to bury the relevant parties

>:/
You’ll understand me being skeptical about this, right?

[Gamma Emerald]

bad faith question

[Gamma Emerald]

fuck no. We're not massclaiming D1 in a normal game.

[Gamma Emerald]

I still think it'd be a really bad idea Day 2 tbh
like, I don't wanna do it but if I have to I can link a game where town massclaimed day 2 and fucked themselves by doing that

[Gamma Emerald]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84523

[Gamma Emerald]

Based on my interactions with HEM, the answer should be obvious. So it comes across as you doing evil lawyer things, asking questions with intent to push me once I respond for a line of logic you've already cooked up.

[Gamma Emerald]

the point still stands: someone was arrogant enough to assume early massclaim would help, it didn't and probably ended up losing things for town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like I literally asked you for a reads list and you think it's bad faith for me to explain your reads after??

you asked for a basic read list, there was no indication you wanted explanation for any of them

[Gamma Emerald]

town/null/scum reads list

this to me is "reads sorted into the listed brackets, no explanations required with it"

[Gamma Emerald]

What I thought was bad faith was you asking a question that I felt like had an answer that could be drawn from thread contents. I'm fine to explain reads, if I feel like it.

[Gamma Emerald]

since you're being a dingus: yes that was the only thing I had against dwlee.

[Gamma Emerald]

BRUH

[Gamma Emerald]

NK15/HEM partner equity

Thoughts?

maybe
ngl I’m kinda not in a good headspace in any way rn

[Gamma Emerald]

so it's Meuh, ChaosOmega, NK15/tictac right?

think feels 1/3

[Gamma Emerald]

idk
even after some time to hthink my scumdar is in a bad state

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Not Known 15
why aren't you scum here?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are your reads dogshit
I just looked over a recent game of yours and you were 2 for 2 in it
So what’s the trick?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are your reads dogshit

have you considered that my reads might be fine and yours not?
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88418
Here, for example, I was mislimmed Day 1. My reads at the end of the day were correct, however.

That was the game I actually looked at, and you might have a point
But it’s just a little hard to reconcile when my last DIRECT experience with you was you being such a massive dumbfuck that your shitty antics pushed me to my breaking point

But I also ISOed you here and you seem more nuanced than I think scum!you would. As a result, I would like to instead
VOTE: humaneatingmonkey
Something about his current badgering runs me the wrong way

[Gamma Emerald]

Why not ask Roden as well?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why not ask Roden as well?

If you mean the Chaos question then from this post it seems like they're not interested in that:

Why would I vote a town or null read instead of you, who I scum read? Granted, I keep almost thinking you could be town until you say really scummy shit out of nowhere again, but yeah I'm pretty sure you flip red.

Besides, the only player worth flipping of your selected three is Meuh. NK15 and Chaos have almost no associatives or readable post-flip content. But also I already said I didn't want to flip Meuh Day 1 so uh, bad PoE. Also lazy PoE tbh.

But yeah, would love a reclarification @Roden: How do you currently feel about a Chaos D1 elimination? Or Meuh?

I meant the other part
And your answer was sufficient

[Gamma Emerald]

meuh gets a D1 pass from me

[Gamma Emerald]

Meuh gets a pass because she used my meme
If chaos does something that feeds my ego he can get a pass too
But like, it has to be genuine, I don’t expect anything deliberate would pass the buck

[Gamma Emerald]

im confident that Koba, Meuh, Dwlee99, marci. townvibes from tictac but there really isn't anything strongly townie about them. i like NK15, but i dont know if the mindmeld is organic or they're trying to pocket me.

Gamma deserves a wagon just for putting GL in E-1.
Roden deserves a wagon just for their activity around GL's slot, how they're responding to Koba's pressure. Also, after voting me in #240 — there was no push in him to build a wagon on me. I wonder why, especially since the read and the vote stuck around for 20+ pages.

I want to know who's against both wagons.

ok nvm this is prolly scum
these are bad surface-level takes

okay thanks for this post because i took a closer look

Whats the difference between roden and meuh that makes you think that the meuh defense came from town and the roden defense from scum?

first, my impression was meuh had townread GL all along. i also thought her explanation for gamestates differentiates her from Roden's angle (which was GL was obvtown). but i wasn't sure enough, so so i looked. but to my surprise, that's not the case. she was scumreading him.

so im going to consider this.

I think there’s a pretty significant difference between Roden & I’s approaches to the whole defence counter push anti-wagon criticism movement or whatever you wanna call it

My read on GL was like, slight scum lean at first, but the stagnant game state irked me and made me reconsider

Also my push against the GL wagon wasn’t primarily motivated by my read on him, it was mostly because:
-I wanted to fight against him being put on E-1, which I thought and still think was an anti-town move from both Gamma and Dk. I tend to feel pretty strongly about some mechanical play and that’s an instance that I felt strongly about
-I don’t feel strongly about GL (or most people, really)’s alignment, like I said I haven’t gotten into this game that much, but I wanted to contribute. That was one of the best ways to actually help out with the game despite my lack of strong feelings. Poof, I gave people more material to read me off of and I helped motivate some more discussion, overall I’m happy with it
-I especially wanted Dk to shake up their reads instead of being overconfident about GL’s alignment, because I think they were tunneling and confbiasing pretty hard, which isn’t really productive. (and also frustrated me lol) That’s why most of the posts I initially made about the GL wagon are directed at Dk.
They changed up their vote which is cool although their reads haven’t seemed to have gotten better from where their vote is placed now but that’s okay

If you look at the posts I made the evening E-1 was placed, you’ll see that I don’t actually take any stance about GL’s alignment, because I don’t really have one to make. It’s mostly me being critical of the points Dk was making.
523 is the most I discuss my stance about GL’s alignment at that point and it’s vague and made to make Dk reflect, only saying I think it’s “fairly likely” for a scenario where GL’s town to be true

That’s why I felt less and was less committal, I didn’t and still don’t feel that strongly about GL’s alignment. Because of that, my motivation towards pushing against the wagon wasn’t motivated as strongly or in the same way Roden’s was

ngl your thought process seems somewhat abrupt but I think there's a nuance to it

Meuh im gonna be honest with you i think you're town

I'm feeling this way too

[Gamma Emerald]

How’d your Meuh read change, HEM?

[Gamma Emerald]

Nope
Monkey’s progression is non-existent

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: HEM

Bad vibes bad vibes
Stop buddying me

Eew

this seems to be the sole reason HEM flipped? Pretty meh logic
Also, his tone is rancid af

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: meuh
Nothing I've looked at convinces me that HEM is scum here

Bull.

[Gamma Emerald]

Mind telling me how HEM’s incessant flip-flopping and appealing to others is town-indicative?

[Gamma Emerald]

at this point im kinda expecting for scum to bus actually

makes me sweat

who lol

[Gamma Emerald]

This is not a natural progression

[Gamma Emerald]

Mind telling me how HEM’s incessant flip-flopping and appealing to others is town-indicative?

Mind telling me how

HEM’s

Meuh's incessant flip-flopping and appealing to others is town-indicative?

How does that description match Meuh’s play?

[Gamma Emerald]

ShadowGirl is the one who tried to play turnabout queen, so it’s her job to explain herself first.

[Gamma Emerald]

Not in a long time, and if that’s your meta, then aim higher.

[Gamma Emerald]

at this point im kinda expecting for scum to bus actually

makes me sweat

[6] Meuh: marcistar, GuiltyLion, DkKoba, humaneatingmonkey, ShadowGirl, Dwlee99

these are all my townreads

>these are all my townreads

[4] humaneatingmonkey: Not Known 15, Gamma Emerald, Roden, Meuh
[1] ChaosOmega: tictac
[1] Gamma Emerald: ChaosOmega

these are all my scumreads

>these are all my scumreads

These thoughts do not mesh in the slightest!

[Gamma Emerald]

That doesn’t exactly come thru there

[Gamma Emerald]

My reasoning for Meuh being town is that her abrupt thought process feels like town actually reacting to events
So like, her flip-flopping has a more natural feel to it than what HEM has been doing, NK15 is probably right about him doing it to pocket and then suspecting people once it fails

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t buy any of this as natural HEM gameplay
It’s very careful, very friendly and the read progression feels disingenous

i dont like what this implies about my personality
im taking this personally

Interesting. So despite you claiming to be more careful and focused as scum, you take offense at Meuh calling you those things (or at least, careful) here, rather than counter it.

[Gamma Emerald]

My reasoning for Meuh being town is that her abrupt thought process feels like town actually reacting to events
So like, her flip-flopping has a more natural feel to it than what HEM has been doing, NK15 is probably right about him doing it to pocket and then suspecting people once it fails

Who do you believe HEM's scum partner(s) are?

You+Roden or tictac

[Gamma Emerald]

Sadly I have no scummates to bus me just my lonely vt self

If you would have just stayed on your scumbuddy Chaos' wagon, then maybe it would be them instead of you today

You’re making me question if executioner is a normal role with this Chaos read

…

[Gamma Emerald]

i also countered it

gamma just bus already

where

[Gamma Emerald]

vote Meuh and flip her. see for yourself if you're right.

Explain where you said your play this game wasn’t “careful”.

[Gamma Emerald]

My reasoning for Meuh being town is that her abrupt thought process feels like town actually reacting to events
So like, her flip-flopping has a more natural feel to it than what HEM has been doing, NK15 is probably right about him doing it to pocket and then suspecting people once it fails

Who do you believe HEM's scum partner(s) are?

You+Roden or tictac

Did you already forget when HEM nominated me for one of two people he wanted to wagon?

and although chaosomega seems like the E-2 was 2 ballsy 4 scum, it could just be scum.
but again, i have no strong reads on either shadowgirl or chaosomega and im down to wagon these slots
although i like roden to be the actual person to go.

And did anything actually come of that? No. That’s also why I think tictac makes sense as a HEM partner. Out of (Meuh, Chaos, NK15, tictac), that’s the person he targeted the least when that was his solve.

[Gamma Emerald]

vote Meuh and flip her. see for yourself if you're right.

Explain where you said your play this game wasn’t “careful”.

[Gamma Emerald]

Then you never countered Meuh’s claims about your play this game!

[Gamma Emerald]

I think your play is a middle ground. You’re being tactical about your reads, in a way that suggests they aren’t real.

[Gamma Emerald]

meuh gets a D1 pass from me

who said it isnt buddy

Gamma has pings all over now

but it's not today's problem

Before this HEM had put me as town for what Meuh said about me
But suddenly once I’m going against his game plan I “have pings all over”
This is not the read progression of someone who is actually sorting, it’s that of a person who is trying to bully people into following him otherwise they get scumread

[Gamma Emerald]

I can’t recall playing with you in the past 2-3 years HEM
in that time, my play has shifted multiple times. So you thinking that I would fit within the same mold you have of me is absolute folly.

[Gamma Emerald]

you say that it's an OGI

where did I say this

[Gamma Emerald]

Also D1 pass != townread
Whilst I townread Meuh before the D1 pass, it’s more just me saying I won’t vote there for D1
Which imo should be bleedingly obviously so you painting it as something it’s not is grimy af

[Gamma Emerald]

your associatives for me does not make sense (entirely missing out on tying me down with Koba, GL, Dwlee, and instead going for people like tictac and ShadowGirl)

Koba and GL are town for me
Dwlee I still don’t wanna fully trust but when I wanted to go after him earlier no one gave a shit

[Gamma Emerald]

I figured out it was Koba when I recalled they’d defended the Chaos/NM slot a lot