Mini Normal 2268 Game Over

[Not Known 15]

if nk15 is the non traitor scum then rofl

This seems to implicate 1 traitor and one normal scum.

Do you know something I don't?

I have not seen that combination in any Normal game.... ever.

VOTE: Guilty lion
Not letting you get past me again

Well hello to you too!

VOTE: Dwlee99

Dwlee, can you link me to any prior town games of yours where you RVS voted someone based on a past game together like this? I think this style of RVS intro vote is slightly +scum, it's an easy/convenient reason to plop down your first vote and I'm also a lil pinged that you didn't really say hi or otherwise engage me directly

I feel like my response was clearly a joke cause I even followed it up by saying I was informed you were scum so idk why you're so caught up on this and calling me frozen when it's a Saturday night and I'm hanging with friends makes no sense

this also kinda bad

"

so

" caught up on this - how much is koba posting about it in the hood? cause if not a lot, feels like a bit of an exaggeration here

and the hanging with friends bit is some AtE vibes

This looks constructed, hedgey, and the hanging with friends is just a description, not AtE.

I'm aware neighbours means I can't 100% trust them, but I don't know how to play around this!! I need help and I figured you guys could help..? (since I can't 100% trust them yet maybe asking them for advice wouldn't have been a good idea?) Maybe Not Known 15 might end up hating me for claiming it, but whats the worse scum can do..? Kill us? At least town can work with this info in mind now though.

I get townvibes from this and would like to know if anyone disagrees
A bit hedgey as well, and yes I disagree. It is a bit over-explainey and very much not townvibe material(but scumvibe material).
I feel if scum!marci is in a hood with NK15 she wouldn't be likely to claim it without hearing from him at all yet, and this explanation feels genuine

Not sure if this is whiteknighting or defending a partner, because an early claim of a neighborhood isn't really AI... it is useful info for town that will probably be spilled anyways!

Koba: Please explain how you got there. In your next post, please.
Marci looks scummy. That is a low confidence read, though!
VOTE: Guilty Lion This is not.

[Not Known 15]

marci feels actually slightly town. Not for outing the hood itself, I like the lightheartedness in their posts, feels natural.

Lion's 55 gives me negative vibes. I can't put my finger on it if it feels rather artificial or over the top. Obviously there is more history, I am just not sure what exactly else he was expecting there. Feels more like making more out of it than it actually is.

Then again I agree with him that dwlee's response wasn't great.

VOTE: dwlee99

This post also sucks. Soft push buddy but vote town is the vibe I'm getting from this.

What do you make of a POE of {Lion, Testarossa, dkoba/marci}?

[Not Known 15]

Why do u have a POE already when theres people who havent even posted yet?

Why not? Those who have not posted are null, and there are 4 suspicious people with a maximum of 3 scum.

[Not Known 15]

if nk15 is the non traitor scum then rofl

I have not seen any credible explanation.
As soon as I begun questioning them I landed in koba's scum pile.
This is scum. VOTE: Koba

[Not Known 15]

if nk15 is the non traitor scum then rofl

I have not seen any credible explanation.
As soon as I begun questioning them I landed in koba's scum pile.
This is scum. VOTE: Koba

btw NK you had literally not even posted in thread at the time of that quoted post, so can you elaborate now, having that pointed out to you?
because it seems you're looking for a reason to vote me <3

I was actually referring to a later post when you listed me at scumreads.
Now, koba, again:

From where do you have knowledge about this game being town vs traitor plus

one

full scum

?

[Not Known 15]

^not super constuctive
@nk it's not 1 scum+ 1 traitor. that would make the scumteam weaker than standard 4 9p, so wildly unbalanced.

I have been pushing people for what were simple grammar mistakes, so ok. However, if a traitor flips and no other mafia and you reach 3p exlo/4p mxlo with koba you know what to do

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: GL

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Guilty Lion

[Not Known 15]

Testarossa seems to have fallen silent after being accused of being GL's partner.

[Not Known 15]

I know regardless of your alignment you're prob not going to agree/see it that way, buuuuut that's how I feel

This is manipulative.

[Not Known 15]

This looks constructed, hedgey, and the hanging with friends is just a description, not AtE.

Explain how it is "hedgey"? What do you think I am hedging on, and why?

also, yes, I understand it is a description. the AtE is that they bothered to bring it up at all to a singular accusation of being 'frozen', it's using irl to defend themself when they had nothing they needed to defend themselves over.

Not sure if this is whiteknighting or defending a partner, because an early claim of a neighborhood isn't really AI... it is useful info for town that will probably be spilled anyways!

[...]

Marci looks scummy.

I think the

specific

way marcistar claimed it, bringing it up before you had said anything to her, is AI.

I'm also a bit confused by your use of the term "white knighting" here? Do you think anyone is pushing marcistar or that I believe I should get towncred for townreading her in that context? Who was I defending her

against

, in your mind?

I also don't believe you actually think marci is scummy, you've given no reasoning for it. What in her posts do you see as potentially scum-indicative?

1. Hedgey: The posts are full of words like "some" that downplay the accusations, weakening the pushes. On your number 1 scumread.
2. The specific way is just overblown. There is nothing towny about overexaggerations like this.

[Not Known 15]

Well, it might also be pocketing if marci is town, marci looks like an easily pocketable person.

[Not Known 15]

Marci is reaching for reads against Meuh.

Hi sorry for not being around, my computer had internet issues for a few days and I don't really like posting on mobile so I haven't really caught up yet, will do soon though!

This tells you that Meuh will not post as normal. Instead of looking for inconsistencies in the expectable behaviour in that situation, Marci is still focused on meuh

has the game really revolved around dwlee this whole time or like what

whys meuhs catchup like that

when the answer is pretty obvious if you actually take your time to read.

(up to 62)

and really reaching for reads where they don't even check everything, unlike town usually does.
Every single of their reads reasons has been incredibly easy to make as scum.

i think guiltylion seems like his normal self so far, what do u think about him?

This could be scum talking about scum.

There is not one read that isn't shallow.

Just in case anybody thought it was a joke, me and Not Known 15 are actually neighbors. I claimed kind of impulsively without them even sending anything at all in our neighbourhood. I'm aware neighbours means I can't 100% trust them, but I don't know how to play around this!! I need help and I figured you guys could help..? (since I can't 100% trust them yet maybe asking

them

for advice wouldn't have been a good idea?) Maybe Not Known 15 might end up hating me for claiming it, but whats the worse scum can do..? Kill us? At least town can work with this info in mind now though.

That post is in a tone that isn't replicated anymore soon, which points to it being indeed fabricated.

Scum:{GL, Testarossa, Marci}

[Not Known 15]

I also scumread NK15, the tone in their posting feels fabricated almost to the point like I'm reading a robot. The hyperfocus on the 1 scum/1 traitor thing is silly.

That's normal.

[Not Known 15]

Nk15 and Meuh have partner equity

I can see where this is coming from. You are on the wrong track there, though.

[Not Known 15]

i fail to see why i should care about the opinion of someone who hasnt used the neighbourhood at all yet

If someone wonders why: I don't use a neighborhood if I don't townread all people in it. And I advise others to do the same. Everything you can say in such a neighborhood should be said in the main thread, that gives town more info.

[Not Known 15]

uhm, was GL at E-1 without much resistance? probably town

Without much resistance is really not the right term.

[Not Known 15]

what's happening guys is GL still scum

Yes. Partnered with Roden and Testarossa(alternatively Marci). Koba and Gamma switched to Roden and dwlee unvoted after there was strong resistance to a GL lim.

[Not Known 15]

Koba, Gamma: Why did you move off GL and hopped on a Roden wagon? Yes, I know that you SR both.

[Not Known 15]

Koba, Gamma: Why did you move off GL and hopped on a Roden wagon? Yes, I know that you SR both.

Actually, that's incorrect, for Gamma, but the question still stands, for Koba.

[Not Known 15]

My brain has been churning and I think I am at the point where I agree with Roden’s idea that the game being stagnant when it was indicates GL is town. That doesn’t really alleviate my feelings on Roden tho, it just affects how I see GL

I can't agree with that. The game was stagnant because there was hidden resistance to the GL wagon, which immediately surfaced when GL was put to E-1.

[Not Known 15]

Who in this playerlist would be able to quickhammer and explain it away as towny?

Townies do it all the time, I don't know why you think this isn't possible. I just came from a game where town!Math quick hammered a scum read Day 1 before we got a claim. They flipped town JOAT. It's really that uncommon, especially when confbias is involved.

ok you say "townies do it"

but identify a single player here who would.

i see 0.

Literally anyone could. If you didn't think it was possible, you wouldn't have said you'd unvote if someone made an intent to hammer.

Indeed. Good catch.
That's a big inconsistency.
Looks like I have been on the wrong track!
VOTE: DkKoba

[Not Known 15]

If someone made intent to hammer i would unvote because I didnt want to end the day yet - intent =/= quickhammer u noob

Whoops. Remembered that one wrongly. Sorry.
VOTE: Guilty Lion

[Not Known 15]

Monkey please dont use the word you used in 813. Whats the difference between roden and meuh that makes you think that the meuh defense came from town and the roden defense from scum?

[Not Known 15]

Why do you think that putting gl at e-1 was mechanically bad?

[Not Known 15]

no one answered who would quickhammer a player as town in this playerlist

Me...
Can't answer about anyone else though, and I was already on that wagon.

[Not Known 15]

Why do you think that putting gl at e-1 was mechanically bad?

Here are the benefits each alignment gets from it:

Town (if town!GL):
-Discussion is slightly fuelled (can also be done in many less risky ways)

Town (if scum!GL):
-Discussion fuelled
-If GL gets hammered, that’s scum down (but we could always yknow, just do that later; so we aren’t missing out on much by not putting GL on E-1 at the time it happened)

Mafia (if town!GL)
-If the day concludes early, town’s progressed less far in their reads, giving mafia a bit of a headstart
-If a townie’s prone to take the opportunity and hammer GL, mafia can reasonably get that player limmed the following day, poof that’s F8 made with the mafia team intact
-The potential halt to town’s reads from an early flip is amplified by the fact that GL’s one of the most vocal players, mafia would benefit strongly to have him out of the picture
-E-1 existing gives scum an opportunity to try a chaotic play (especially scary considering the setup’s closed)

Mafia (if scum!GL)
-Day could end early
-Scum have wiggle room to try a play
-Bussing potential

Ultimately there’s no major benefits for town to put people on E-1. For scum however, although there’s a good chance they don’t do anything (hammering would be risky), we’re still providing the mafia team for an opportunity to try out a play, or for a townie to hammer and end up helping out scum.
It’s giving ammo to the scum team, even if we don’t think it’s likely they use that ammo

You say discussion slightly fuelled if gl town and discussion fuelled if gl scum. But the actual result is discussion fuelled, not just slightly. That would be a reason for a scumread, so...

[Not Known 15]

how does everyone feel about {Roden, ShadowGirl, ChaosOmega}

i have no read on shadowgirl nor chaosomega and would rather vote roden.

i can also be persuaded on roden's alignment.

although I agree that ChaosOmega's E-2 is +town, but it could also just as easily be scum.

I don't like that last post.

[Not Known 15]

i feel like theres too many ppl that feel informed/scummy here which indicates a certain universe and it starts making things make sense - and if that isnt the case, i told dwlee to bury the relevant parties

You know that it is pretty obvious what you are saying?
It could also be true, I am currently stuck with too many scumreads.
VOTE: Marci

[Not Known 15]

Hmmm actually... what do you all think about a massclaim?

[Not Known 15]

Day 2 is probably better, yeah.

[Not Known 15]

But it would be greatly beneficial for day 2, because we could stop wasting our time with mechanically confirmed town.

[Not Known 15]

Do it please

[Not Known 15]

No, not applicable. No presence of neighbors, and the main fail of town was falling for a fakeclaim, (doc claim plus no-kill)

[Not Known 15]

Hmmm actually... what do you all think about a massclaim?

It feels like an atrocious idea at this moment. Why do you think this would be a good idea?

To get more clarity on who might have been scummy due to role sideeffects and who did not.

[Not Known 15]

Tictac, what's your read on HEM?

[Not Known 15]

HEM, can you explain your read on tictac, if you have any beyond null?

[Not Known 15]

Meuh, please react to 873.

[Not Known 15]

Marci and koba are your strong townreads? Why?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: HEM

Bad vibes bad vibes
Stop buddying me

Where did hem buddy you?

[Not Known 15]

Hey, koba...
please crawl out of HEM's pocket.
VOTE: HEM
Just did a bit of reading through HEM's ISO.
One thing I now see that they pocketed

me

, and that makes me angry.
Looking at their ISO, it looks to me that they have an agenda, are looking for an execution and changing their reads to convenient scrapegoats and going with the flow. It looks like someone who tries to look like scumhunting to me. But it does not look to me they actually want to scumhunt, but rather find town to pocket, and town who can be limmed.

[Not Known 15]

regardless i know you made that up so i'm gonna forgive you

Well, this post is trying to cover the mistake... Town hem would not react to personality statements from scumreads like they initially did. That was scum hem, with tmi.

[Not Known 15]

If there is a traitor then it's probably marci.

[Not Known 15]

Join the HEM wagon. We have free cookies*!

[Not Known 15]

Well, this post is trying to cover the mistake... Town hem would not react to personality statements from scumreads like they initially did. That was scum hem, with tmi.

that's funny how you tell me how i should act when we never played any game together

who told you about the myth of humaneatingmonkey

Your site ISO.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Not Known 15
why aren't you scum here?

Because the mod didn't roll scum for me...

[Not Known 15]

Roden, NK15 — My elim is not gonna happen. Choose between Meuh, Omega. Roden, you can also choose NK15.

Do you all still think that HEM is town?
That monkey is even giving me "advice" despite scumreading me!
Stop mislimming lhf devoid of associatives and lim scum.
VOTE: HEM

[Not Known 15]

nice im glad you're not even trying

Lim this.

Please.

You won't regret it.

[Not Known 15]

Stop mislimming me again. Vote somewhere else.

[Not Known 15]

Oof, nevermind this is a really scummy post

Oh, really? What's wrong with my reasoning, then?

[Not Known 15]

Roadmap for Day two in case you mislim me:

Massclaim

.(it is the

day before MxLo already, and with what koba said we really, really need to take care of that via massclaim.

)
Consider HEM and GuiltyLion as lims unless cleared by claims(e.g. cop innocent). Take a second look at my neighbor, Marci, as well.
Do not, under any circumstances, clear koba for anything except associatives and hard clears. I currently think koba is town but koba is too good at hiding their scuminess. In doubt, execute Koba if HEM flips green.

[Not Known 15]

Why are your reads dogshit

have you considered that my reads might be fine and yours not?
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=88418
Here, for example, I was mislimmed Day 1. My reads at the end of the day were correct, however.

[Not Known 15]

In this specific case, however, I have had a bit too many scumreads so do not take these reads as absolute confidence.

[Not Known 15]

Massclaim

.(it is the

day before MxLo already, and with what koba said we really, really need to take care of that via massclaim.

)

im confused, is it really? how did u figure that out? : D D
ur so so smart!!

It's an exaggeration, but nontheless the assumption you should make.

[Not Known 15]

If it is truly 10v2 then we have lower town power. No need to stop the D2 massclaim for that possibility.

[Not Known 15]

Yes, but you could also vote HEM, which would leave them at E-2, too. So... why not?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: HEM

Bad vibes bad vibes
Stop buddying me

Eew

this seems to be the sole reason HEM flipped? Pretty meh logic
Also, his tone is rancid af

This is probably the real reason HEM flipped. Every time people resisted getting pocketed and voted HEM they appeared in their scumreads.

[Not Known 15]

could you be town here, nk15? i'm asking because i like you, we share a lot of sentiments. but i dont trust you because... we share a lot of sentiments (it feels as if you stand alone in reaffirming my view of the game). if you're town here, we can hold hands and be allies.

update: still not reading the thread.

this

[Not Known 15]

Meuh is at E-1.

[Not Known 15]

Meuh is at E-1.

I couldn't tell from the vote count

just making extra sure that no one hammers before the claim.

[Not Known 15]

Yes, but you could also vote HEM, which would leave them at E-2, too. So... why not?

I've already mentioned what I find shady about Meuh most recently in, #1074 and #1106. Do you not find Meuh's flip flopping of votes scummy? They were even voting you at one point! What is giving you clear townie reads on Meuh?

No, it means that they thought that HEM/myself had one scum, and they were not sure who.
Why is them voting me a reason for me to vote for Meuh?

[Not Known 15]

Yes, please claim. If you survive this and HEM flips scum you are likely dead Night 1, and if you don't claim and someone quickhammers...

[Not Known 15]

who cares abt claims

I do care about claims at E-1. Mostly claims like "Activated IC" "Mason" or "Vigilante".

[Not Known 15]

You, town - know you are town - so Meuh trying to jump on nearly any wagon available solely for their own self-preservation (other than Chaos, my own view is they are likely scumbuddies) - should ping you, no? Again: what do you see super townie about Meuh?

Their wagon progression is tictac(RVS)-Chaos-HEM-Myself-HEM. I don't see what you are describing here.

What's so super townie about Meuh is that they are extremely unlikely to be partnered with HEM. And HEM is scum.

[Not Known 15]

Hi

I didn't read anything.

Ok
I give you two hours to read everything.
We are very close to deadline.

[Not Known 15]

HEM seems to have noticed that a Meuh flip would likely cause their death.
Enchant, just keep your vote where it is, unless absolutely needed to prevent a no lim.

[Not Known 15]

how do you read Meuh, NK15?

Not partnered with you. I get a feeling they are town but I can't really substantiate it.

how do you read Enchant/Gamma, NK15?

Not sorted yet. Some things look ok, and I had a weak town read on them, but

VOTE: meuh
Nothing I've looked at convinces me that HEM is scum here

Bull.

your associatives for me does not make sense (entirely missing out on tying me down with Koba, GL, Dwlee, and instead going for people like tictac and ShadowGirl)

Koba and GL are town for me
Dwlee I still don’t wanna fully trust but when I wanted to go after him earlier no one gave a shit

I don't like this progression.

[Not Known 15]

Ok... HEM, what's your read on GuiltyLion, and tictac?

[Not Known 15]

Massclaim time. Popcorn?

[Not Known 15]

I have a guilty (:

Nvm. Not massclaim time:)

[Not Known 15]

@Roden: I'm trying to think of why DkKoba would serve themselves up as (almost guaranteed to be) one of two people who will be voted out today, or if Dwlee flips town, that they would be certainly voted out tomorrow, come up with something else that doesn't paint a guaranteed target on their back, or do easier pushes on others (barring both DkKoba and Dwlee are scum together and DkKoba wants to get themselves confirmed from this Day). Coming into this Day, DkKoba wasn't likely to be on the list of easy chopping block choices (compared to first instance, lurkers, or Gamma/Enchant, or even HEM possibly still being a play).

There is an explanation.
That koba

cannot endgame

. That koba is a traitor.
The correct mechanical play if we cannot identify the scum is to lim koba. Koba can be a traitor. Dwlee is confirmed not traitor.
If we are wrong on koba we can at least lim one main scum. The other way around things look bleaker.

What we must do this day is to NOT end it quickly but to intensly question both players in this 1v1 about many things, especially about what happened in their hood.

[Not Known 15]

@Roden: I'm trying to think of why DkKoba would serve themselves up as (almost guaranteed to be) one of two people who will be voted out today, or if Dwlee flips town, that they would be certainly voted out tomorrow, come up with something else that doesn't paint a guaranteed target on their back, or do easier pushes on others (barring both DkKoba and Dwlee are scum together and DkKoba wants to get themselves confirmed from this Day). Coming into this Day, DkKoba wasn't likely to be on the list of easy chopping block choices (compared to first instance, lurkers, or Gamma/Enchant, or even HEM possibly still being a play).

There is an explanation.
That koba

cannot endgame

. That koba is a traitor.
The correct mechanical play if we cannot identify the scum is to lim koba. Koba can be a traitor. Dwlee is confirmed not traitor.
If we are wrong on koba we can at least lim one main scum. The other way around things look bleaker.

What we must do this day is to NOT end it quickly but to intensly question both players in this 1v1 about many things, especially about what happened in their hood.

Most idiotic thing in this thread.

It is not, what makes you say that?

[Not Known 15]

@koba
@dwlee
You need to tell us, without falling afoul of the mafia rules, as precisely as allowed,

what

happened in the thread and on which

date

(e.g. April the 1st).

[Not Known 15]

my sympathies 2 people wanting extensive interaction, but i just wanna do the obv mechplay here

Why's that the obv mechplay?

[Not Known 15]

how about we flip enchant and leave the question of both person's alignment to night 2's mercy? especially since enchant has declared a hard stance on koba vs dwlee (siding with koba). what's the worst thing that could happen?

NK15, your massclaim time is here.

Bullshit.
If we flip one of them we might gain associatives.
With a 1v1 a massclaim does not benefit town.

[Not Known 15]

my sympathies 2 people wanting extensive interaction, but i just wanna do the obv mechplay here

Why's that the obv mechplay?

when there is a guilty, yeet the guilty.

Not if the person giving the guilty acts like a potential traitor.

[Not Known 15]

We know that dwlee is not a traitor.

[Not Known 15]

and i'd get it if folks were like "koba sketch, let's yeet koba" but they are like "lets yeet this 3rd unrelated peron instead cause koba is sketch"

Yes, that's dumb, I agree.

[Not Known 15]

One thing just occured to me. Let's actually do the massclaim.

[Not Known 15]

massclaim is cool actually, we already have the mason, a doc claim, and an investigative claim

UNVOTE:
popcorn from enchant?

Sounds good.

[Not Known 15]

Sorry mod, guess I wasn't clear that I wanted to UNVOTE: in my last post.

Still looking for Chaos to chime in with their thoughts about all of this.

One thing just occured to me. Let's actually do the massclaim.

Can you say why you still want a mass claim or no ?

I'm still fine with claiming, I just don't know what the benefit is when we have this 1 vs 1 situation.

It's not something I want to discuss before the end of the massclaim.

[Not Known 15]

I think koba is a traitor. Let me post my case when I have time.

[Not Known 15]

I can't cite what's not there lol

There hasn't been a single post in the hood for 8 days

Is this true koba?

[Not Known 15]

How many days ago did you tell them about the masons?

[Not Known 15]

I can't cite what's not there lol

There hasn't been a single post in the hood for 8 days

I think that's a lie.
VOTE: Dwlee99

[Not Known 15]

No, it was to fake spew Dwlee as town. I faked a slip to draw attention away from my scum buddies and create fake associatives with town. I mainly did so because my slot was doomed even if I bussed Dwlee, but it wasn't true the other way around.

This isn't happening with you vs Dwlee because you both opened today attacking each other. If Dwlee is scum I think it's reasonable to think they would try to fake spew.

Meant to add: who would benefit from pushing Dwlee now?

Town?

[Not Known 15]

Not moving my vote.

[Not Known 15]

enchant town if it wasnt obvious already

I agree.