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[Save The Dragons]

First

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Hi

[Save The Dragons]

reads so far:

town:
andres
galron

scumbag:
nero CaIn

Possibly plotting evil ReVenGeZ:
Tweetie / Angela

null:
gera

hidden:
DragonS

Crouching tiger

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this game is hoppin

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

this game is hoppin

i mean,

it's not like either of you have adopted a particularly proactive sorting role here?

which would kinda be the expected next step from

'hm, the game seems to be moving slower than i'd prefer,'

yeah?

like at least nero cain has shared some thoughts on the game

i have no thoughts as of yet

that will change

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actually i think you and kittytacky are town so i guess i have thoughts

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VOTE: morning tweet

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actually i think you and kittytacky are town so i guess i have thoughts

Are you going to give us some insight into these “thoughts”?

do you want more insight

it's mostly a vibe thing, angela seems to be engaged with the game and kittytacky is purely based on one post that didn't seem to come from scum

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VOTE: rathe

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i don't really like the discussion surrounding not mafia as a policy. i think it could easily come from someone who knows NM is town and wants to see them go.

I think rathe's reasoning for voting kittytacky is pretty bad

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i'm torn i think ger needs attention but i like my rathe vote, and rathe hoped onto ger so

should have probably said i was vla this weekend got really busy i can have some better thoughts on monday

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which one is it or do u already know they are both town

Rathe I think you could be Town. I like this take.

this is a bad take

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i feel like we're getting distracted in crap that doesn't matter and ignoring what does matter like voting rathe

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because no one else is voting rathe

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i feel like we're getting distracted in crap that doesn't matter and ignoring what does matter like voting rathe

why rathe over, say, malcolmtucker?

i dunno what to think of malcolm yet but i've liked his vibe so far

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ok it's not crap per se but my eyes are glazing over and it's hard to focus on this "it's a joke it's not a joke it's a percent it's a lie it's not a lie" convo going on

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the issue with rathe is

kitty goes "i think this is TvT"

rathe goes "you KNOW it's TvT!" without citing any evidence or providing any reasoning for this other than kitty provided a TvT

then rathe loses interest and votes for ger for wagoning which seems opportunistic to me.

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its pretty common for both town and scum to call fights TvT and then someone calls out the one that called it TvT. Its not a particularly earthshattering take and Dre's take that its a good is is kinda eh but not particularly bad so y do u think it is?

it just seems fake to me so to call it a good take just seems out of place

maybe but Rathe can think more than 1 person is scum.

are you defending rathe because rathe voted ger with you

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i like to naked vote

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i mostly voted morning tweet for her not mafia opinion but decided rathe was a better vote

it feels like you're trying to read into something that isn't there

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there wasn't anything i needed morning tweet to answer

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morning tweet you gave me hope and then you took it all away

maybe i need to revisit my reads

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blind vote

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what's your read of me

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VOTE: Galron choo choo

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good rathe posts

why? didn't rathe just rehash what someone else has already said?

[Save The Dragons]

good rathe posts

why? didn't rathe just rehash what someone else has already said?

Do you still think Rathe is mafia, and if so what was your motivation for moving your vote onto Galron for now? Just simply to get someone out or what?

yes

what's the point of voting someone who no one else thinks is mafia

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Spoiler:

oh look gera is joining another bandwagon. nothing suspicious about that.

Nope,none at all

Kittytack is getting attention because they are one of the few players willing to try and explain their reasoning, and so just easy to keep pressure on them

VOTE: kitty

do you have

any other thoughts on the game so far?

Um, I have no interest in the not Mafia conversation. I usually like having them in games because they are pretty good at knowing when I am town, and I am pretty sure if they are scum it will become obvious sooner or later. The entire chat about them.was a waste and most people taking part in it should have known better.

Apart from that it is the usual day 1 uselessness

Kittytack is getting attention because they are one of the few players willing to try and explain their reasoning, and so just easy to keep pressure on them

VOTE: kitty

do you have

any other thoughts on the game so far?

oh look gera is joining another bandwagon. nothing suspicious about that.

do you have much experience with geraintm?

and if so,

would you say that town!geraintm generally functions under a blanket

"wagons are good"

playstyle?

also interested in anyone else with experience with geraintm weighing in on this

Um, my experience is they are utterly useless day 1, they think anyone who says they are useful is lying to.thrmselves and they believe that no elimination would serve town better but no one agrees with that.
Gets marginally better as the game goes on but can often get an idea fixed in their head and blow the game for town

Amazing, not gonna lie, feeling some Emotions now game has finally started.
Waited so long for this to start.

Anyways, today's number is 9

Hi

VOTE: save the dragon

i am really, really confused by anyone who thinks my initial vote was not the exact same way i vote every time.
i said 9 in my first post - post 31
i then quoted post 40 - (31+9=40) and voted for the person who made that post.

I am going to have to stop my fun with my other votes though before i distract everyone too much.
I am literally just voting the biggest wagon. I did it in another game once but no one noticed it there, but it amuses me to go along with my general opinion of chaotic Day 1s

UNVOTE: i like Rathe's reads

liking someone's reads on day 1 and promoting them for it is just like...the worst twice removed logic going. stop it

537 isn't confusing in the least. It's the defense paradox.

538 is also pretty normal. It's pretty much how most players read each other and you see this like every game. You could even go as far as say that Gera is trying to dismiss Rathe's reads.

These aren't great points and quite the opposite.

And I stand by the "pretty much how most players" means day 1 such and should be somehow eliminated. Someone posts a list kf reads they have confidence in - which they cannot as day 1 is a crap shoot.
And then a second player looks at the first and goes "hmm...thay random reads list looks pretty good to me, I now think player 1 is town!"

We are now 2 degrees of separation from a pile of crap....and all the while player 1, player 2 (or even both) can be scum and be lying.

Skip to day 2 when we get a bunch of info from night actions and we aren't just running around in the dark.

My point is a simple one, not complex but I will give out naughty points when I see someone do something pointless like that whilst giving themselves a pat on the back

Why are you voting Scorp then??

I am literally just voting the biggest wagon.

you know what, it is a contradiction. but once i sorta commit to a way of voting i kinda have to stick to it, otherwise to me that looks suspicious. kinda locked in for the rest of today, sorry.

it is significantly more suspicious to me that you'd lock into voting in a manner that is not particularly + town

while being aware that that is what you are doing

ah, its just me having a little bit of fun and trying to achieve my aim for Day 1, which is to get to Day 2 as quickly as possible. dont mind me, i promise i'll be better from tomorrow onwards

How many times are you going to mention you dislike D1?

There is one post in here I liked about putting too much in someone's D1 reads,but other than that. These are just garbage time wasting posts.

do you find ger scummy for anything besides the stance of hating d1

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I find the current vote tally on Scorpious quite interesting - as has been noted we're nearing elimination and he's generally had the biggest vote tally throughout the game but nobody actually appears to be pushing him or trying to solidify that block as such. Why not, if they want him out?

i mean, do you think it is alignment indicative that i haven’t pushed the scorpious wagon over?

I think you're at least consistently making posts and trying to move the game forward though, you're the most active player here and while that doesn't guarantee town, I feel like most of your posts are adding something to play. Whereas I feel like some other slots are dropping votes on players they potentially feel confident on without doing anything about it beyond that in a way that could easily be mafia coasting by.

names?

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good rathe posts

why? didn't rathe just rehash what someone else has already said?

Do you still think Rathe is mafia, and if so what was your motivation for moving your vote onto Galron for now? Just simply to get someone out or what?

yes

what's the point of voting someone who no one else thinks is mafia

Why not take more time to actively push this forward though at a time when we haven't solidified behind any one player? Half your posts on Rathe seem to be "lol more people vote for Rathe please" without actually giving us much detailed evidence as to why Rathe might be mafia. I think their posts have been pretty solid and am strongly leaning town, have their contributions since your first vote not influenced your read at all? I'm just not buying this as a particularly genuine push from you for you.

what do you think "Hey look rathe just posted stuff other people posted and is getting tr for it, that's weird, isn't it?" is supposed to be

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have you ever played with me before this is what i do

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STD, I just don't believe this is particularly genuine suspicion looking bad. It feels like you've honed in on Rathe but the reasoning is pretty weak. Out of interest, where were they just repeating what others have said? And why are they especially deserving of suspicion for doing so when Pooky has pretty much openly said they will sheep Angela no matter what happens?

i read ur posts again kitty n y r u voting scorpius

534 makes no sense n then 537 makes even less sense

the more kitty talks about people suspecting him the more defensive he gets n the more suspicious i get

The cardinal sin of defending yourself when pushed...

VOTE: Scorpious

this is a more confusing post and vote than even mine on kitty

and maybe kittytacky posts feel kinda observational? and the response to scorpious feels altogether odd to me

‘you’re going to vote for me!’
‘correct! i am going to vote for you! soon (tm) lemme read the game’

pooky saying they're going to sheep angela is different

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have you ever played with me before this is what i do

This isn't answering my question though, I don't think your read of Rathe is particularly strong and I'm getting increasingly annoyed by people (not that you've been the main culprit so far) just defaulting to meta here for either a lack of reads or to justify a certain approach to the game that isn't helping at all. My general view is you have a weak case on Rathe here...that can come from either town or mafia but in a game where reads have been thin on the ground it's interesting nonetheless. Like...to put it a different way, why should your read of Rathe lead me to a conclusion you're more townie than mafia?

i think having a case on rathe is a lot different than not mafia hammering at e-1 and ger not playing d1

just because you tr rathe and think it's weak doesn't mean i'm not "playing the game"

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i answered your question with another answer too, did you see that

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who's interested in joining the rathe wagon

why would i keep my vote there

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i don't think the evidence is weak

i also play a lot by gut and can't articulate that

my gut says rathe and my gut is usually better than my logical part of my brain anyway so i trust it

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why are you tring rathe is a better question

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well u only been going after me which feels very mafia

why

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my gut says rathe and my gut is usually better than my logical part of my brain anyway so i trust it

ur gut is wrong

ur mom is wrong

gottem

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i don't see that as being a dick? but sorry if that offends

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i won't make jokes like that anymore sorry about your loss

why do you think rathe scum would be too obvious

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VOTE: MalcolmTucker

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i don't think the evidence is weak

i also play a lot by gut and can't articulate that

my gut says rathe and my gut is usually better than my logical part of my brain anyway so i trust it

i dont trust gut. one, your guy is no better than random, two, you could be scum.

i believe in the power of gut

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i'm actually fine with limming STD at this point i didnt even remember the dude was playing the game until galron mentioned him

wow i'm here

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I can do that.

VOTE: Save The Dragons

VOTE: save the dragons

is there anything you want to engage me with

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I'm still unsure on geraint but I think them being unwilling to get on the Scorpious bandwagon given they've been a main candidate so far is quite townie.

I'm happy to move my vote from there if nobody else fancies it, and fine to get on an STD bandwagon because I don't think they've looked townie so far and their suspicions of Rathe feel very manufactured.

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

Busy day ahead so likely won't be around till D2.

what is the agenda behind targeting rathe

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VOTE: Not_Mafia

ig

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coming for my arguments here sheesh

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VOTE: Andante

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morning tweet wanted NM all day yesterday, it's a place to start

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Malcolm is Town. One of angela/Kitty/Save The Dragons can die today as far as I’m concerned so far.

@Nero Cain, Rathe I want to see some comments from you I’m interested in your perspectives.

what did i do

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i think i believe the scorpius claim and that he was just likely blocked or something

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why did you target angela, scorp

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D1 angela was pretty town tho

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I also note that Pooky included STD in their possible mafia pool list before being eliminated. Andante joins and the first joke/passing vote on them comes from...STD. Possible connection there?

how so

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i often take a backseat in games

like i dunno what to say sometimes i'm generally not interested in some of the minutia that goes on in games

here's where i'm at

geraintm

my problem with ger is the same as scorpius- they complained about d1 being all bad and stuff and then come in with a lackluster performance on d2. that doesn't necessarily mean anything AI though, it's just a little annoying that they made a big stink about D1 sucking and aren't able to solve the game D2.

Galron

i'm wary of galron, i think galron doesn't do much when galron is scum and i dunno what galron has done this game.

Rathe

UGh

MalcolmTucker

Im a little wary of malcolmtucker but i can't really explain why, it just seems like they're not townie just a gut thing

Scorpious

i think it's entirely possible they're a town mailman, but the friendly neighbor information does make me wary. i think they're town based on play though.

Andresvmb

annoying but probably town

Morning Tweet/Andante

I still think the not_mafia suspicion is bad and could have been an easy push. Andante has done nothing to convince me this slot is town.

angela

I just still think this slot is town. i'm not sure i love the ATE and the appeal to experience going on but it certainly could come from town, and the outing of the FN seems like a town thing not a scum thing to do.

Nero Cain

I agree with the sentiment that town nero tends to lead the game more so i'm a little worried about nero being scum this game. i don't really remember anything nero has done all game.

Save The Dragons

That's me!

KittyTacky

FN is believable

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outguessing the mod/setup is dangerous

i've seen a neighborhood with 2 traitors in it they flipped one and assumed the other was town. i also saw a game with 3 mafia doctors in it. both are considered normal.

i could see a mailman and a friendly neighbor in the same setup as town

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ger isn't in my pool and i didn't say he should have solved the game by d2 i said it was annoying they can't seem to play d1 and didn't bring up anything juicy so far now that they "can play" or whatever they couldn't do d1

my pool is wide but some of those are just leans. i don't think that that's unreasonable considering you have 1 neutral, 1 uncertain, and 3 scum reads yourself.

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VOTE: unvote

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i wasn't saying you read are bad or anything i was pointing out you have a lot of {?} which i have a lot of {?} too

i tr kitty from play yesterday so just because i mentioned the doesn't mean that's the only thing i'm considering. we also agree nero is suspicious and potentially andante, and that ger is null, so i dunno why you're acting like my list is bad when we do have some common points

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i'm not sure about you yet i just don't know if i wanna vote you atm (@andante)

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this is what i feel. it's not a wide pool, it's one more scumread than you. (@andres)

scum is in = {galron, nero, rathe, malcolmtucker}

null = {ger}

uncertain = {andante}

town = {rest}

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Yeah of course we have common points you can’t possibly disagree with everything I’m saying that would be absurd.

my point is that you said Kitty and angela was our only common ground or at least implied this

im worried you're painting me in a bad light because you've decided i'm scum and are now misrepping me unintentionally

Like why is Galron suspicious to you? Why are they not at all memorable? What do you make of their vote on angela that is still sitting out there?

i don't think it's a great vote atm i think angela is town. what exactly is memorable about galron?

i don't think my reads are half-assed but i guess that's just your opinion man i don't really know what to argue to convince you that my reads are genuine

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i just feel like rathe's insights are just basic and often repeating what the town has already said. rathe did it again on this page i don't think rathe is the first person to bring up the possibility that kitty and angela are scum together pretending to have a FN claim

his attack on kitty yesterday looks like a fake push

i remember rathe being townie in another game and i just am not feeling it in my jellies and i don't understand why rathe is getting universally townread

maybe i'm a little tunneled but i don't think it's unreasonable to arrive at the conclusion i have, which is one of my problems with malcolm tbh

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VOTE: MalcolmTucker

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V/LA until monday evening

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save the dragons thinks im mafia cuz he thought kitty was town n i went after kitty
i still think it was weird cuz other people went after kitty but yet he zeroed on me n then said it was gut i dont know how to feel about it cuz theres no way to defend against gut

I also think it's weird that STD has remained glued to you yet hasn't actually tried to get a D2 wagon going at all and hasn't actually really pushed properly for your elimination. At this point it feels more like mafia wanting to stick to an easy early game read without their heart particularly being in it at all.

what do you want me to do

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i pushed rathe and was scumread for it, i don't push rathe i get scumread for it

i pushed rathe and no one responded, i don't push rathe and suddenly people care

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what are you talking about

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catching up

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andante's rep out seems NAI

i don't really like scorpius's convo with JV

I quite like Jackson's posts so far but could very easily be mafia trying to tidy up the mess that was increasingly being created by that slot.

I don't like this, i don't think there's enough from JV to like, and don't like how the rest of the post goes counter to this statement

If three townies (well 2 plus one) have all tunneled on an innocent scum

what are you talking about

@jackson

A player you believe is town based on 10 pages of random votes?
Stop wasting time interacting with us and read the game, then come back and play properly

god i hate this post

The alternative is that two roles, mailman (Scorp) and friendly neighbor (me) exist in the same game as town. They are very similar roles that send messages, it seems very unlikely.

why? ignoring the setup, why is scorpius scum

so if scorpius was not able to send his message it was cuz there is a town jailkeeper or he is lying

why? ignoring the setup, why is scorpius scum

maybe i'm a sucker, but like Andres i just don't find Scorpius's frustration to be scummy. I think it's weird to have a FN and a mailman in the same game but i certainly don't think it's impossible. I think it's weird to have scum block a mailman of all things but i certainly don't think it's impossible.

Gera's posts have been pretty devoid of relevant content, it looks like maf trying to push scorpius without doing much because it's easy. I think geratintm is more likely to be scum here.

rathe continues to look bad imo.

VOTE: Geratintm E-2

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VOTE: malcolmtucker

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sorry i'm like burnt out on mafia at the moment

i'm just a vt

i think a lot of you are looking at the game all wrong but i can't really articulate that very well so if you have to lim me to move forward i guess that's better than a pr. scorpius seemed town to me d2 and i was wrong, i guess so that's not exactly motivating.

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UNVOTE: give me some time to think and i'll come up with something

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geraintm (4): MalcolmTucker, Scorpious, Andresvmb, Save The Dragons

this was probably a scum driven wagon to get attention off of scorpius, let me look at how the votes fell

There has been some exceptional mud stirring overnight.
I am happy with my vote, I see no reason to move it

Do you have any thoughts or feelings on any of that mudslinging and what it means for the game or are you going to continue to avoid actively saying anything that might draw others onto you?

You know what, happy to put my vote here for now.

VOTE: geraintm

VOTE: Gera

Also noting that Rathe only appears when he shows up to spew his brand of bullshit..

VOTE: geraintm

I apologize for trying to shut this down.

I think geraintm’s last set of posts pushing Scorpious seem of Scum that wants the day to end.

@Jackson, let’s do this.

i think just the tone of malcolmtucker's vote is suspicious to me. it makes me feel like someone who is voting there to draw attention away from scorpius.

i think that andres's call to action for JV is a little suspicious (pockety) but the tone seems to be one who believes scorpius was town so i think it probably came from town. i felt similar to andres in terms of why i thought scorpius was town, so i'm not really wary of andres.

---

i think my problem with malcolmtucker is his attack on me and his defense of rathe. i don't think MT gave a strong reason to townread rathe, nor has rathe given a strong reason to be town read. i think they have some partner equity with the way MT keeps bringing up my suspicion of rathe as "weak," trying to discredit it.

it's weird that these posts use the same language, almost like it's scripted despite being days apart.

Been struggling for reads in general this game but I feel like STD's suspicion of Rathe felt fairly weak but sustained in a way that could maybe be mafia just trying to attach themselves onto someone. Maybe that's just because I largely TR Rathe though.

As I've said from the start as well, STD's push on Rathe has been both consistent but fairly weak - they've never really dropped it, perhaps because they reckon they need to come across as having some strong reads, but there's never been much conviction or an attempt to actually push for elimination at all. Just feels a bit like mafia going through the motions.

the tricky part about scum reading rathe is that he hasn't said all that much to be scumread on. having played with rathe once before, rathe seemed really townie in that game and just doesn't have the same feel here. rathe's comments are often vague and have repeated what others have said. he is hiding in plain sight.

my current solve is probably rathe and malcolmtucker.

enchant is hard to read and could be a possibility.

angela seems town

andres seems town

gera is probably town from being the counterwagon but there's a world where JV-Gera-Scorp are the scumteam and Gera has a more powerful scum role than mailman so Jackson went on Scorp instead.

nero is another problem slot i have. if i were a meta player i would probably be honing in on nero more, it just doesn't seem like his town meta. he's kind of a town beacon of townyness and more of a leader, but i never really have seen him take such a backseat to a game. i don't think they've said anything that's made me question their alignment though, so i'm not really sure what to think.

jv could be another possibility, the hammer of scorpius could be a bus even with potentially clearing gera as a counterwagon to mafia. JV seems town though just by play so i'm not sure what to think.

going back to VOTE: MalcolmTucker