Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing
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Loftwing
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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RVS. There isn't really an explanation other than "Hey, I've never seen this person before! Lets vote em."In post 137, FancyPants wrote:As opposed to the randomly vote without explaining things gambit.
@Kenny, still looking for input.
@Loftwing, same from you please.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Were you making a push on BBT to get a read on them?In post 146, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
This assumes I'm not making a push to get a better read on BBT.In post 122, Loftwing wrote:It was a way to extort a read out of CW, which reflects bad on anyone not wishing to do the same on someone else.-
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Loftwing Goon
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I don't particularly have any reads.In post 156, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:Here's something we could all do. Give any three reads on any three players you are willing to make public. The consequences of not doing so will be determined by everyone that participates.
I'll start
Cat Scratch Fever - Town (145)
FancyPants - Town (25)
Eiralox - Town (Not answering questions)-
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Loftwing Goon
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I have read the entire game, and nothing is particularly notable.In post 162, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:Seen everyone's post? Select a few posts that are most alignment indicative for you now and get yourself a few.
I do think that CSF and BBT show a genuine interest in pushing the game forward, rather than a fabricated reason to go after their respective targets.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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I feel like it was a resolution to my misgivings about them, which was mainly "There's a lot of nothing here"In post 199, FancyPants wrote:@loftwing, Can you point out specifically what you like about Kenny's recent posts?-
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Loftwing Goon
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This post explained why kenny felt out of place and why it felt like nothing, it was nothing but only if you were looking for reads.In post 183, kennyk wrote:
I never claimed it to be reads. Just my impressions about things that were relevant in my eyes. Like Irrelephant believing Shoshin is town without giving a reason why.In post 179, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:But what you posted wasn't relevant. You posted a bunch of stuff but didn't actually give any reads, so the question is this; why post it at all?
It was just things that I think are noteworthy. They were and are not enough to make it a read in my eyes.
And btw.: the quoted post doesn't contain a read either. Why did you post it at all?
Once I was satisfied, I relieved the pressure.-
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Loftwing Goon
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My Quarrel was that they were trying to decieve us into believing that they had something to say regarding their reads, when it was apparent they didn't. While I still may have my suspicions of Kenny, I feel like they are at a similar baseline that everyone else is at. They don't appear to have a bias or an agenda that they are attempting to push.In post 225, FancyPants wrote:@Loftwing, I'm having trouble following you.
Is this a fair characterization of your behaviour:
- You voted Kenny because he "didn't say anything of substance despite saying many things." 168
- You unvote once Kenny admit's that he wasn't saying anything of substance and was just making random comments about the game (207), this was enough to put your mind at ease and unvote him.
If I am incorrectly interpreting your posts, please treat me like I'm stupid and explain your thought process clearly.
@Kennyk, I'd still like you to follow up on post 190 please.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Currently they have little credibility in my eyes, and I don't trust a word that comes from their fingers. I would be willing to throw a vote down on them should the current wagons cease to prevail.In post 219, Irrelephant11 wrote:Loftwing what do you think about Confidently Wrong?-
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Loftwing Goon
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In my experience, 0% of newb scum are coached. I don't know why, but I've never personally witnessed it.In post 231, FancyPants wrote:Random question to some of the more experienced members in the game, I've never played in a game with Mafia day talk, how does this usually affect games if at all?
My current worry is that newb scum could be "coached" out of bad spots, is that common, or am I paranoid?-
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Loftwing Goon
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I've remained unimpressed with what I've seen so far. Off the top of my head, I don't have any particularly strong reads on anyone, and I'd have to re-read the game again for analysis.
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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In post 245, Irrelephant11 wrote:You don't have to be like "this person is DEFINITELY SCUM" to have helpful reads. You can just compare, say, kenny and fancypants, who are voting each other, and pick a side. Voila, you've got a townread. You can figure out who's done the least that's towny to you. Voila, you've got a scumread. Nothing so far??
Can't decide if town being stubborn or scum trying to seem towny by audacityIn post 244, Irrelephant11 wrote:
Wild that you can read this very thread and walk away without readsIn post 236, Loftwing wrote:I've remained unimpressed with what I've seen so far. Off the top of my head, I don't have any particularly strong reads on anyone, and I'd have to re-read the game again for analysis.
It explained why there was nothing of substance in terms of reads, because there was nothing in terms of reads. In terms of general thoughts, there is substance in their earlier posts.In post 289, Shoshin wrote:
How did Kenny's explanation satisfy your concern about a lack of substance in his posts?In post 207, Loftwing wrote:This post explained why kenny felt out of place and why it felt like nothing, it was nothing but only if you were looking for reads.
Once I was satisfied, I relieved the pressure.-
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Loftwing Goon
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This is a window into what Kenny was thinking, and it shows that they wish to contribute to the gamestate even if they have little to no reads. It highlights what they consider to be important events up to this point, and it would be wise to study it in depth to catch a glimpse of Kenny's povIn post 148, kennyk wrote:So here are my thoughts about the game so far.
There is Eiralox who voted and changed votes twice very early in the game.
I made a (in my eyes) fun comment about this. I know it is RVS, so those vote changes are very likely a thing of trying to beating around the bush in hope of someone reacting to being voted.
FancyPants tries to push me for this comment. This feels wierd. But maybe it is because they are torn pants (thanks Irrelephant for that pun).
The most fascinating thing about Irrelephant is, that Shoshin is probably town. Not that I think Shoshin is scum, but I don't see how he should have gained the towncred.
ConfidentlyWrongs selfvote in the early RVS is NAI for me. As mentioned by someone else earlier (too lazy to look it up again) this seems to be a humoristic approach (haha).
BlueBloodedToffee pushing CW for the selfvote and then, when the waggon didn't get on track too well, hopping on the CSF waggon seems fishy.
I don't see why CSF deserves the waggon that's now going on.
Everyone else is just a blank card for me right now.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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(it might be because I am not a ground-based ordinance)In post 339, Eiralox wrote:other feel i got rn is L0oftwing. there's a disconnect, feels too light on the feet-
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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I'll restate it here for effect: My initial reasoning for voting you was because I thought you provided nothing of substance in terms of reads and, critically, that you were trying to pass that post off as if it was a readlist.In post 388, kennyk wrote:Loftwing: Taking one of my posts as the reason for a vote on me and later using the same post as a reason to unvoting and even defending me really feels strange. scumleann
My later reasoning was that you has said that you were not intending for it to be a readlist, which means that my initial reasoning was flawed because that post wasn't a readlist, it was your thoughts on the game.-
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Loftwing Goon
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It was oppertunistic, an oppertunity to sow the fertile fields of clarification. To garner the information that I require. It is a very effectual method for gathering information, as it is pointed and relevant to what I need at that moment.In post 481, MalcolmTucker wrote:VOTE: Loftwing
Subject to change but time to cast a vote somewhere. Not confident their opportunistic jumping around from wagon to wagon is townie. The vote on Mala felt particularly opportunistic as I said earlier on.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Do you think this does not equally apply to me? If not, why not?In post 510, Confidently Wrong wrote:A classic tactic for less experienced mafia is to try to mimic towniness by trying to loudly proclaim how unsure they are of people's alignments to LAMIST their way into seeming uninformed-
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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VOTE: Eiralox
Dearest Eiralox,
I hope this vote finda you in good health
and in a prosperous position to put wealth
into the pockets of people like me, down on their luck
you see, your readlist is not something to fuck.
I can understand nullreading everyone around you, to keep your options cleared and your paths open. However, it feels rather contradictory when you state that CW and CSF, two users whom's initialisms start with C, are both indistinguishably equal. Please answer the the following charge that I am putting against you now:
You say that CW is null to you, however in your own posts, you say that they feel worse and worse to you as well. How can you read them as being the same as Kenny, a user whom you have greenlit while also keeping them inside the nightmarishly thin grouping of null? This is a charge of nonsensical behaviour, and should this remain unresolved, the punishment shall be death.
Yours Truly,
Daker, Loftwing.-
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Loftwing Goon
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My reasoning for voting Eira is that they see CW, someone who they have fought and who they have said they think worsely of, and Kenny, who they have stated a greenlighting towards, are both equal in terms of scum equity, as that is what null means.In post 588, FancyPants wrote:Can I specifically get clarity from Kenny and Loftwing, exactly what they think of Eira and why, I know Loftwing gave reasoning when he voted, but can you clarify why her behaviour is scummy in your eyes.
Please don't say you have no opinion.
@Loftwing, nice Hamilton reference.
In other words, despite saying that they like Kenny and hate CW, they still say that they are equal and are both null.-
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Loftwing Goon
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My quarrel with Eiralox isn't an emotional one, but a logical one.In post 575, MalcolmTucker wrote:I worry some people are confusing Eiralox's abrassive posting style for scum. Not sure scum gets into such a deliberate dogfight with CW here, it's clearly not helped Eiralox and unless they're on a mission to eliminate themselves I fail to see why scum would take such an approach.
Loftwing's vote above is, again, incredibly opportunistic.
My opportunism is due in part because this is the most effective use of my time here. If I am unable to extract information from Mala because most players do not wish to go that way, then is it not in vain to turn the tides of destiny away from where they wish to go? Is it not more reasonable to instead follow them as far as I am willing to go?
I believe you are missing why I am being opportunistic, and are instead calling it out as if it is a bad thing in it of itself.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Excuse me, dearest Eiralox? You are forming reads?In post 592, Eiralox wrote:In post 589, FancyPants wrote: Ididsay that if you are town I don't mind eliminating you anyway, because I find your posts too confusing, and your thought process impenetrable - so we're never going to be able to effectively work together.
yeah again i'm right "Fancy is confused so want Eira dead." what a farce. In what world do you wanna elim an active player who's forming reads and getting things going over Mala, whose done jack squat, or Loft, who's vapid air?
I'm not feeling good about your reasoning here Pants. You're nearing my scumleans.
Well, if you are, then tell us. Light up the stage with your readlist, whatever you may have. I would love to see who has moved out of being null for you.-
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Loftwing Goon
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That is correct, PantboyantIn post 604, FancyPants wrote:@Loftwing, your main is Jake the Wolfie right?-
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Loftwing Goon
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What I am saying is this:In post 607, Eiralox wrote:Whoooopy ride man wtf is going on here. Ive felt better about kenny. Cw I wanted to expand. Theyve been one sentencing this game. Loftwing is my prob vote target atm. Ill go through what they did then come back with conclusion.
Kenny is good to you. They are what you have considered to be greenlit.
CW is bad to you. They are what you have considered to be "worse and worse".
They are both null to you.
So, one would conclude that Kenny =/= CW for the first and second statements, but then would conclude that Kenny = CW at the third, which is a contradiction.
You both imply they are different yet state they are the same. Which is it, my good, honorable, and reasonable man?-
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Loftwing Goon
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How am I lying? You've stated at least thrice that eveeyone is null. Up to this very post you have yet to make a distinction between a nullread and any other read, amd even now I am suspicious about whether or not those 3 players you have listed as leaning green are acutally a townlean for you, or if they are actually still null.In post 611, Eiralox wrote:Loftwing now you straight up lie. If you have paid any attention youda seen I lean green on malcolm, elephant, cat.
Kenny and cw null. Ive felt better about kenny and worse about cw.
VOTE: Loftwing
Scummiest one on me. Ill come back later in day with analysis. Peace.
Spoiler: A brief history of Eiralox categorizing everyone as null-
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Loftwing Goon
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In post 657, MalcolmTucker wrote:
This isn't a bad post but feels very, very carefully thought-out as a justification for the vote.In post 606, Loftwing wrote:
My quarrel with Eiralox isn't an emotional one, but a logical one.In post 575, MalcolmTucker wrote:I worry some people are confusing Eiralox's abrassive posting style for scum. Not sure scum gets into such a deliberate dogfight with CW here, it's clearly not helped Eiralox and unless they're on a mission to eliminate themselves I fail to see why scum would take such an approach.
Loftwing's vote above is, again, incredibly opportunistic.
My opportunism is due in part because this is the most effective use of my time here. If I am unable to extract information from Mala because most players do not wish to go that way, then is it not in vain to turn the tides of destiny away from where they wish to go? Is it not more reasonable to instead follow them as far as I am willing to go?
I believe you are missing why I am being opportunistic, and are instead calling it out as if it is a bad thing in it of itself.
Your options here surely aren't just Eiralox/Mala? You could focus on someone else if you wanted to. My concern is you appear to be seeing potentially viable wagons forming and almost instantly jump on them. I don't feel like you're thinking particularly independently here, which is one of my main issues.
It is true, that I could attempt to try and form a new wagon by myself, to create the tides of destiny instead of merely riding them, however that would take an active role for my part, instead of a more passive role wherein a wagon is suggested and I analyze the person being wagoned to see if there is something to be desired. In this case, there is.
If you would like my in depth thoughts on a particular player, feel free to ask me. Mafia is a social game, after all.-
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Loftwing Goon
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They aren't inherently scummy, even holding a royal estate of all 12 at once (of which I am now slightly kess sure of), but what troubles me is that they both equare Kenny and CW this way as null, yet also divide them in twain with Kenny being better than CW.In post 680, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Why are null reads scummy?
They are both different, and yet also the same.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Are there any points in particular that you are confused about?In post 760, Irrelephant11 wrote:I feel like there's ~5 slots whose posting makes little sense to me and are regularly using bad reasons to scumread other slots
And I doubt all three scum are in there, just based on how mafia games usually go
But at least 1, probably 2?
I guess I should figure out who I'm talking about, in full:
loftwing
lowell
kenny
eiralox
~frederick, sorta
I think I also mixed up a couple fred and malcolm posts at one point so those reads feel a little muddled. Only noticing how different they are when ISOing them-
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Loftwing Goon
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In post 763, Irrelephant11 wrote:Why did Kenny saying “actually I wasn’t trying to offer you any reads in that early game longpost” satisfy you that he is town? The fact remained that he had written a bunch of words without advancing the game at all
Why does Eiralox’s confusing use of the word “null” still make him the scummiest player in your eyes? It seems like you’re choosing to be obtuse there as an excuse to keep a scumread, he’s obviously got reads and just doesn’t like to call them reads for some weird reason
Kenny clarified what his earlier post actually meant, becsuse we the people misinterpreted it. In light of his clarification, the post made more sense, so my objection was addressed.
Eiralox does have players outside of his nullbin, or at least I assume that's what they meant. So why not then seperate either kenny or cw from the nullbin then, is my current objection.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Loftwing Goon
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Where did I definitively state that I would never, under any circumstance, say I would ever hunt scum? This is a falsehood that is wholly untrue. I have yet to say this, and moreover, it would be a ridiculous thing to say.In post 775, Eiralox wrote:Summary of loftwing these past few pages: they basically state theyre not gonna hunt scum and only do effort to darken folk who already git wagons. They only focus on eira, pushing fred, asking why the shift of eira? Nothing looks good here.-
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Loftwing Goon
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This is accurate. I am not currently solving the game, instead riding the waves and seeing where it takes me.In post 776, Eiralox wrote:VOTE: Loftwing
welp at least now vc is accu. I see no solving from loftwing. I see no relish for the hunt. The fact that kenny and loft are now voting together should be noted.
Dont expect much more from me today.-
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Loftwing Goon
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In post 808, Shoshin wrote:What're your reads, Loft?Town
Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong
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Cat Scratch Fever
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Irrelephant11
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Malakittens
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kennyk
FancyPants
Eiralox
Scum-
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Loftwing Goon
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Is there a problem with not trying too hard, because I am too busy for this game?In post 810, Shoshin wrote:
Behold, a scum.In post 809, Loftwing wrote:I am not currently solving the game, instead riding the waves and seeing where it takes me.-
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Scum are the ones who try to hide this fact, yet here I am, flaying this fact open for all to see.In post 813, Shoshin wrote:Scum are the ones who don't try to solve the game.-
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I just don't enjoy your vibes in general, but I could go into a deeper analysis when I'm not about to sleep.In post 815, FancyPants wrote:
Do you think my interactions with KennyK come across as scummy?In post 811, Loftwing wrote:In post 808, Shoshin wrote:What're your reads, Loft?Town
Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong
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Cat Scratch Fever
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Irrelephant11
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Malakittens
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kennyk
FancyPants
Eiralox
Scum-
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Loftwing Goon
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After an ISO of you, it seems my initial stance was baseless. My apologies. You can go into the unjustifiably large grey sector.In post 818, FancyPants wrote:Please do when you have time on Saturday just your justification for the scum reads.-
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Now, here's an interesting comment. I would like to hear you justify this remark, BBT.In post 831, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Switching votes to self-pres isn't scummy. Not even in the slightest-
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In post 836, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Is anyone interested in a Fred or Malcolm wagon?
Fred is preference.
If you townread me, then surely you could give a more in-depth explanation than this.In post 833, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I can only go off early-ish posts and it's not a read I can say I'm wholly confident in either. Therefore, I'm not entirely comfortable explaining it - not yet anyway.
Ther-
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Loftwing Goon
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In post 846, Eiralox wrote:UNVOTE: Loftwing
Loftwing has offered us nothing. they've been.... openly non-committal. Seeing as it's at -1 im unvoting to give Loft time, some1 might go on and hammer anyway at this point and i don't see the value in that. at least.... try.
but in a twisted way loftwing can still flip town so idk..... will i vote there again? lowell wagon... no. fred? i can totally see scum fred, but the fact that they thoroughly asked me to share my viewpoint then shifted to mala is.... something which makes me wary of mobbing fred 2day.
So loftwing idk i mean i guess my vote can shift back to u at this point, i'm not having options atm. but i wann at least give you time... if u do nothing impressive in the interim well meh.
How is it terrible? Eiralox, despite being convinced that I am scum, wishes to give me a chance. I think that this is perfectly aligned with their attitude this game, and it won't reflect poorly upon them if I flip.In post 847, Lowell wrote:This is terrible ^-
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This isn't an explanation for why the post was terrible. Clearly they weren't entirely satisfied with what was said so far. Eiralox wants something that hasn't been said yet, or perhaps they want me to say more. In either case, it would be entirely reasonable to unvote me and wait for more.In post 853, Lowell wrote:Dudes loft posted 8 times in the last day and a half, listing all his suspects, what exactly you want from him? Vote him or don’t. BBT is scum, eira is probably town, I have this read in my head and can’t shake it now.-
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I have made some reads, and I have posted them. I've sorted everyone by how I percieve them, and very little has changed between then and now.In post 862, MalcolmTucker wrote:[...]Loftwing says they're too busy to solve at the moment but still ultimately makes a whole bunch of posts anyway. You don't need to have the whole game figured out to make some reads.-
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Loftwing Goon
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Well, that's always been the case, regardless of what mask I wear. Despite being a LHF, I still try my best to find a playstyle that suits both me and everyone around me. Perhaps this one isn't it.In post 866, Shoshin wrote:Only thing that gives me pause about Loftwing is that it feels too easy.-
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I am in a mega-coroporation stocking various icey things into cold containers.In post 881, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Loft, can you give me a run down of where you're at?
Regarding the self-pres, if I'm at L-1 and my top town read is the next largest wagon, regardless of my alignment I'm voting the counter wagon to save myself. If I'm town, I can never be as sure on someone else's alignment as I am of my own and if I'm scum, well, I just want to live.
Less literally, I am currently a little lost as to what to do here. I don't particularly have a preffered direction or goal other than to offer as much as I can in the limited time I have here.
If you're town, then the most you can do is try to provide as much content before your death, as everything you say will come from a town perspective, guarenteed. Self preservation denies this avenue of information to your fellow bretheren, which in turn makes everyone worse off.
In any case, I must return to the land of ice and frost until my lunch rest.-
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Loftwing Goon
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I haven't been doing nothing per se, just nothing that you would find productive. I have been divining the alignments of other players as they have come up, but I have not pro-actively hunted for scum. I feel like the first day of any game is more lackadaisical than future games. Unfortunately, my track record doesn't actually see me surviving the first day, regardless of alignment, so I usually lie down and wait to see if I die.In post 892, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:
Loftwing is just not doing anything and wants to do nothing in this game.In post 844, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Fred, I would like to know why you think Loft is scum.
I find you haven't given your read/position on many players in the game
I am rather apathetic for this game.-
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Loftwing Goon
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- Posts: 665
- Joined: June 21, 2021
Move FP up between CSF and BBTIn post 895, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:
Loftwing, are these still your current reads?In post 811, Loftwing wrote:In post 808, Shoshin wrote:What're your reads, Loft?Town
Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong
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Cat Scratch Fever
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Irrelephant11
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Malakittens
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kennyk
FancyPants
Eiralox
Scum-
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Loftwing
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Loftwing Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 665
- Joined: June 21, 2021
Why either of them? Neither of their deaths would allow the game to progress quite as much as mine would.In post 906, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
I would still do this if we can get any traction at allIn post 836, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Is anyone interested in a Fred or Malcolm wagon?
Fred is preference.-
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Loftwing Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 665
- Joined: June 21, 2021
I suppose I shall claim before my death is finalized.
I am a 1-shot neighborizor, and a secret second role which I will gladly take to the grave. I had no plans to use my ability tonight, as I trust none of you most, although given my revealed status at this point, I feel that, should I survive today, it will be of utmost importance that I neighborize with someone tonight.
Now then, decide my fate. I have revealed this information, now I shall sleep through what I hope is not my last and crucial hours of life. Goodnight.-
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Loftwing Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 665
- Joined: June 21, 2021
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