Mini Normal 2277 - Frog Images (Game Over)

[Crescent]

Oh this came up right as I was getting settled into bed. Neat.

Also, I'm a Kitty. Meow.

[Crescent]

Hi Sheep person

Do you like cats?

[Crescent]

Yay~

Hating cats is a sin most grievous. I was just snuggling with my baby in bed <3.

But also if you're not a sheep why are you ba-ing so much

[Crescent]

219/220 seems like a pretty reasonable amount of doubt

[Crescent]

Obvious town because... Kitty.

The universe is solved

[Crescent]

I think seanzie's magic cold read is technically better than completely random? there should be 286 possible combinations in a 13 player normal with 3 scum if my math is right

But if you're town, it's actually 12 being put into combinations, since you already know your own alignment, but no one else's. The 13th player aka yourself obviously would remain static.

[Crescent]

I think seanzie's magic cold read is technically better than completely random? there should be 286 possible combinations in a 13 player normal with 3 scum if my math is right

And how many solves do you think I considered where I was scum?

42, obviously.

[Crescent]

I'm on break at work didn't Garlon vote me? Not showing in the votals.

[Crescent]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

What about it is supposed to be suspicious?

[Crescent]

Seems awfully quick to say someone could be playing "frozen".

3 players haven't even posted yet.

[Crescent]

Also, poor Galron. I knew him, Horatio.

(No seriously what the hell happened in that game)

[Crescent]

honestly though d1 my thought process kind of goes in circles due to lack of concrete info, I'm happy just voting after whoever posts the least which at this point is fancypants, what do you think seanzie?

what do you think of Galron?

Galron's ISO is a random vote on me and a 5 posts that don't even try to play the game.

Wouldn't exactly call it scintillating stuff.

Not that I'm being terribly exciting either, for once. Then again... I feel like I'm

super

low energy, and I'm still the 4th highest poster. Considering my tendency to dominate post counts maybe it's a good thing to not be doing it for once.

How many votes is Galron at now I'm curious

[Crescent]

honestly though d1 my thought process kind of goes in circles due to lack of concrete info, I'm happy just voting after whoever posts the least which at this point is fancypants, what do you think seanzie?

what do you think of Galron?

first pick right now for scum. worse to actually post and say nothing than even to not post, was wondering if seanzie would pick up on that. might just read some of his games and see if he's always this deep in his own head or if he does this as scum to obfuscate

Eh, this is not a good way to read someone IMO. It is barely 24 hours into the game and there are tons of NAI reasons someone could have only posted once by now. Smells more like feeling out LHF tbh.

Galron has 6 useless posts, not 1.. Unless you're talking about someone else?

[Crescent]

VC here later

Ugh damn you Crescent

Meow

[Crescent]

I could go all self-metay but that might feed them an answer as well so I'm not going to.

Like I feel I could pretty easily make an actual argument to scum lean me right now. Surely if that's an actually serious vote he can as well.

[Crescent]

GAMMA
KITTY
CRESCENT
MALA

COMBINE

TO SUPER SAILOR SCOUTS

LETS LIM GALRON

ARROOOOOWROOLOOOO

Nekosentai!

[Crescent]

Galton made 7 posts in a row and they all said absolutely nothing, then he proceeded to.. "lol" when asked to give actual content?

Galton is exuding quite an impressive level of don't give a shit here. People have brought up other games of his: Is there any precedent for him acting this way?

[Crescent]

If there's one thing I noticed about Eiralox, it's that she was a lot spicier early on in 2273 than she's being here. She was on the attack early and often, and did not place any joke votes. She did kind of fall of a cliff activity wise on day 2, though.

I can make the same criticism of myself coming out a lot milder than I have in my past minis, though. It's become abundantly clear to me in the last day or so that I'm overloaded.

Also Galton is -2 now I think... Though we have 3 people who haven't posted in over a day (Eira and Eater - with no content), one whom is already in prod territory (Fancypants, who has just 1 post), and a slot that hasn't even posted yet.

Kinda feels like a quick vote here is giving a lot of people a pass.

..As much as I kinda just want to do it and go back to bed.

[Crescent]

Well.. There goes one of them.

[Crescent]

Out for now? You've been out the last 30 hours.

[Crescent]

Kinda surprised no one called out my "hmmm..." post as suspicious.

Anyways, VOTE: Galron. This is a non-RVS vote.

What about it is supposed to be suspicious?

I've seen wolves "hmm..." posts to make it look like they're thinking hard about something while not actually giving any takes, and they can later use that post to fit pretty much any narrative (i.e. if I was a wolf and later today I push Galron, I could be like "see, I suspected them all the way back here!" vs if I decide to townread them, I could be like "yeah, I thought a lot about them as early as this and decided they look townie!".

This is TvT, I had similar misunderstandings as town and got dogpiled by other townies.

This looks like TMI.

What "misunderstandings" are being had here?

About "hmm" posts.

who exactly is misunderstanding who, though? Cresent simply asked me a question and I clarified. I don't see this as a misunderstanding, if anything it is us coming to a mutual understanding. So, what are you seeing? Where is this "tvt misunderstanding" you're seeing? Because from where I'm seeing, I think you didn't actually read the exchange, and slapped on "tvt" to a post without thought. Town probably wouldn't do this, and while it is possible a wolf could do this when their wolfmate is one of the subjects, wolves tend to be overly concerned with their partners, whereas you show a lack of concern/reading, so I'mma say it again, this looks like TMI.

What's interesting is is you were voted for this immediately by some people, and I merely asked a question. If anything, this would potentially apply to other people who reacted to you, but not me.

[Crescent]

As someone who townread Eiralox basically all game in 2273, the harshness of that reaction in #201 scumpinged me. It feels like it's getting very defensive to justify a lack of action instead of the more "whatever" reaction I'd expect. Like, I know I've been underwhelming in activity myself, but I also haven't felt the need to yell at other people to mask it.

[Crescent]

Look at my post counts in 2272/2273/2276 and take a brief look into my day 1s and you tell me. I'm practically a shell of myself compared to those games.

The issue I have with her: I mention a group of people that's inactive, and one of them both quickly pops in and gets very defensive when questioned on their lack of content. That kind of defensiveness simply wasn't present in the personality of this player in 2273. She was angry a bunch, but not defensive.

[Crescent]

...Then again I was also angry a bunch that game. The town (outside of Eiralox and Alex) was almost completely useless and I got screamy trying to get most of them to do anything.

Maybe that game in general just made people mad because we weren't even the only two.

[Crescent]

I've never seen Gamma play with this kind of sustained bloodlust before and it's jarring to me.

Oddly though, it doesn't really scumping me. Gamma kinda doesn't strike me as the kind of scum player to try to murder off someone 3 pages into a game. Feel free to correct me if this is wrong, but this very much feels like town-tunnelvision to me. I constantly make associations the way Gamma currently is when I'm scumpinged on someone as hard as they seem to be on Galron.

If there's any vote on that train that gives me weird vibes, it's KT's... But honestly it doesn't even try to hide how obviously opportunistic it looks, and I'm not sure scum would vote that way so fast into a game.

[Crescent]

Eh actuallu post #190 wouldn't exactly be early. It's just only their 6th post of the game and I was paying attention more to that.

Yeah ok I am not particularly enthused.

[Crescent]

Redcardinal would be the second worse vote on Galron just because it was so lazy, but I don't think it's necessarily AI on it's own.

[Crescent]

Crescent repeatedly attempting to undermine the Galron wagon makes me think she could be scum, if Galron is but Sean/Eir isnt

I wouldn't say I've undermined the wagon, but I have questioned it. Three of the votes on that wagon are objectively very weak (Mala, Red, and Kitty), and the votes include 3 of the 4 lowest posters in the entire game.

And it's weird for you to jump to that conclusion because you know I question

everything

. You should know enough to be worried if I

didn't

question it.

[Crescent]

I can't tell if gamma is confbiasing or wolf. Seems he decided I was scum after fewer than 10 words.

Not the first time though.

I really, really, really dislike Galron’s tone here. Like there’s not much of an attempt to defend himself, he just brushes it off while trying to not seem like he’s cracking under pressure.

I see Galron as someone who barely cares about the game already. Posting 10 vague comments at once with sprinklings of content is a pretty easy way to build up a post count without doing much (He's now #4 in the game but not much in the way of actual content).

But I also question the train because 3 of the 5 people in his vote don't really have any particularly strong reason to be there, and two of those people are semi-inactive at best. One hasn't even posted in over 24 hours.


It would be kinda fun to just hop on and throw caution to the wind for once, I guess, but I am generally not a rash player at all.

[Crescent]

Galton made 7 posts in a row and they all said absolutely nothing, then he proceeded to.. "lol" when asked to give actual content?

Galton is exuding quite an impressive level of don't give a shit here. People have brought up other games of his: Is there any precedent for him acting this way?

Galron’s not giving a shit is just very fake and it seems like Galron is scum desperately trying to shake the ‘deer in headlights’ label that Gamma gave him. Just saying ‘Lol’ when asked to give reads is obviously not pro-town. The town thing to do here is to actually try and find reads?

Yep, it is. Galron has made a habit of fluffing up his post count by making several consecutive short posts at a time that don't really say much, which is inherently a scum minded action in order to appear more contributory. I do think there's a decent chance he's scum here, but I also think the semi-inactives who are voting him with effectively 0 content need to do more.

[Crescent]

GAMMA
KITTY
CRESCENT
MALA

COMBINE

TO SUPER SAILOR SCOUTS

LETS LIM GALRON

ARROOOOOWROOLOOOO

Baa baa. VOTE: Galron

Lol

CAUGHT SCUM
CAUGHT SCUM
CAUGHT SCUM
CAUGHT SCUM
CAUGHT SCUMCAUGHT SCUMCAUGHT SCUMCAUGHT SCUMCAUGHT SCUMCAUGHT SCUM
CAUGHT SCUM

I mean I agree with the sentiment of the posts but I find the tonal shift odd. I don’t think that Galron’s post is scummy enough that it can elicit enough of an emotional reaction to make KT say this.

I actually think KT is more likely to be bussing scum than they are to be scum voting town, given the showiness that followed the vote, which also happened to already put him -2. KT has posted 1 read that isn't spamming Galron being caught scum, and then defended themselves when that one read got scrutiny. That's the entire summation of their content.

[Crescent]

Crescent repeatedly attempting to undermine the Galron wagon makes me think she could be scum, if Galron is but Sean/Eir isn’t

I also got this sense, bolstered by Galron almost aggressively refusing to give a substantial read on Crescent after an opening vote. Post 125 points out that Galron isn't doing anything of substance but then deflects with "I'm not being terribly exciting either" which has the effect of de facto excusing Galron's play.

Preview Edit: Galron's 175 is absolutely scummy enough to elicit a reaction like that given the context of my 174.

What's interesting is Gamma knows me putting everything under scrutiny is effectively my status quo. I barely ever vote, but I question everything in sight.

Still think it's a town tunnel-vision from Gamma though. I also still also think Galron is far from a lock for scum. It's likely he is, but it's being treated like far too much of a formality by too many people. I'll give it maybe 75/25 odds right now.

[Crescent]

As someone who townread Eiralox basically all game in 2273, the harshness of that reaction in #201 scumpinged me. It feels like it's getting very defensive to justify a lack of action instead of the more "whatever" reaction I'd expect. Like, I know I've been underwhelming in activity myself, but I also haven't felt the need to yell at other people to mask it.

What specifically in your other games made you think that aerial ox would have a whatever reaction? Did a similar situation arise?

Eiralox was a troll day 1 in that game who didn't seem to give a crap what you said to her. Eiralox in this game felt concerned with defending her position.

Interestingly enough, I completely agree with her reasons for why Galron isn't "lockscum" in #242, so that actually improves her stock for me.

[Crescent]

What's kinda amusing though... There's too many people saying Galron isn't a lock to be scum for us to all be scum, and Gamma is trying to scum read

all

of us.

I give it decent odds that if he's scum, a scum is already voting him, and that it's most likely KT out of that group. I don't think it's Sean/Eira either way though, as I don't believe both other scum actively defend Galron here if he's scum. Galron scum means at least one of the two is probably town.

[Crescent]

Galton made 7 posts in a row and they all said absolutely nothing, then he proceeded to.. "lol" when asked to give actual content?

Galton is exuding quite an impressive level of don't give a shit here. People have brought up other games of his: Is there any precedent for him acting this way?

Galron’s not giving a shit is just very fake and it seems like Galron is scum desperately trying to shake the ‘deer in headlights’ label that Gamma gave him. Just saying ‘Lol’ when asked to give reads is obviously not pro-town. The town thing to do here is to actually try and find reads?

Yep, it is. Galron has made a habit of fluffing up his post count by making several consecutive short posts at a time that don't really say much, which is inherently a scum minded action in order to appear more contributory. I do think there's a decent chance he's scum here, but I also think the semi-inactives who are voting him with effectively 0 content need to do more.

Here's the thing, you attacking votes on Galron the way you are feels at odds with your read on Galron.
And I think scum are either less experienced or less present given what happened the last time a scum was caught this fast. So tbf your odds of being scum are low in that lens.

You know who isn't present at all?

Two of the people voting him.

[Crescent]

My 18 year old baby is curled up on her box.

[Crescent]

Does that mean you think Galron is town?

If so, why?

[Crescent]

I'm guessing Frogster is Kiri because it's both characters from the same game.

I found KT's vote to be over-the-top performative, and KT popped back to defend it but.. Still is lacking in actual content.

[Crescent]

Too stupid to be scum has it's applications, but I do not believe it's applicable here. I actually had an instance of this the last time I was scum about half a year ago. The guy who got voted off day 1 was

so

bad that a fair amount of people thought he was town because they didn't think a scumteam would let him play so badly.. And he was town. I also used this kind of logic to correctly town lean Goldfish day 1 in 2273.

The issue I have with Galron is to some extent it seems measured. He consistently bursts out strings of very short posts that don't say very much, and it's a pretty classic way of beefing up one's overall post count to look active, without actually providing a lot of content. So much of his ISO is just surface level stuff that doesn't really dig into anything. This is primarily why I think he's more likely to be scum than not. I feel like he's just saying things more than he's actually trying to solve anything.

[Crescent]

And why do I look really bad, specifically, given I'm probably the person in the game taking this train the most objectively? I don't trust the player, but I also don't trust the train.

I've made more of an actual case on him than 3 of the people who are voting him, while questioning said people whom have not adequately made their own case, and you're one of them. KT popping in to defend their vote and doing nothing else did nothing for me. So you get to be next: Why exactly are you so set on him, because you're never indicated your vote as anything but "ride it and see what happens".

You placed 5 votes in the first 121 posts,...

I want to sit on galron for a few days and see what happens, give the people who haven't said much time to weigh in. galron, what's your take on seanzie?

...And this is effectively your only stated reason for being on him.

What's your case for him being scum?

[Crescent]

Oh and I would flip that script and say if Galron is town, Red is probably the most likely to be scum on him.

Like I stated previously, I don't think KT's vote is scum voting a town, I townread Gamma, and Haschel's vote on him has a direct reasoning for it. Mala pretty blatantly sheeped Gamma and that's... Yeah I don't know Mala enough.

Red has the vote that's there for the weakest overall reasoning.

[Crescent]

I'm guessing Frogster is Kiri because it's both characters from the same game.

I found KT's vote to be over-the-top performative, and KT popped back to defend it but.. Still is lacking in actual content.

Tell me how I would defend a sheeped vote?

It's not the vote that bothered me - It's the post after the vote. It feels like it's drawing way too much attention to "look I voted scum" that it feels like S/S to me.

You did say it was normal for you to ham it up. Can you give me any examples?

[Crescent]

Mala pretty blatantly sheeped Gamma and that's... Yeah I don't know Mala enough.

She's worth flipping D1 for stuff like that. She's not a bad Town player.

The disappearing for like 30 hours after that is more questionable to me than the vote itself. I see a level chaos in the early behavior more than scumminess.

[Crescent]

Oh and Mala/KT can you explain your reads because you're apparently both townreading me and... Each other.

[Crescent]

And why do I look really bad, specifically, given I'm probably the person in the game taking this train the most objectively? I don't trust the player, but I also don't trust the train.

I've made more of an actual case on him than 3 of the people who are voting him, while questioning said people whom have not adequately made their own case, and you're one of them. KT popping in to defend their vote and doing nothing else did nothing for me. So you get to be next: Why exactly are you so set on him, because you're never indicated your vote as anything but "ride it and see what happens".

You placed 5 votes in the first 121 posts,...

I want to sit on galron for a few days and see what happens, give the people who haven't said much time to weigh in. galron, what's your take on seanzie?

...And this is effectively your only stated reason for being on him.

What's your case for him being scum?

I have a tendency to throw my vote all over the place. Having a hard time believing you really truly think my vote is weak. but anyways, as I mentioned before I want to throw someone inactive out day 1, and galron at the time I voted him was both fairly inactive, and though there were of course less active people I figured he had posted enough that voting him would get him to talk some more, and also once again I think the meager amount he was posting looked like fluff to fill up space. seems simple because it is, I tend to occam's razor these things bc trying to analyze too many layers deep is a good way to get all confused and distracted from obvious stuff happening around you in this game imo. the idea that just wanting to sit there and see what happens is effectively my only stated reason for being on him is a lie and I'm a bit astonished at how bold it is.

As for why you would look bad if galron flips scum, that would be because you're defending the stuffing out of him right now at a time it would be optimal to do so for scum. questioning things is not a neutral action bc you have to choose what to question, and that decision reveals things about you

You were the weakest vote on him because you never justified it except by a single passive comment that in no way indicated the belief that Galron is scum. The other 4 all indicated some level of belief that Galron was scum.

[Crescent]

The passive comment is 220 and was already quoted earlier

I never actually bothered to look at the posts you made

before

you voted for him. I remembered 220 and then looked at the subsequent posts to see if anything built off of it.

Yeah that's probably almost as bad as the gaffe I made with Elsa in 2273 I deserve scumpings for that one.

[Crescent]

Three people voted for Elsa... Two who voted For "Elsa Jay", and the third person who just voted for "Elsa"... And I made absolutely no mental log that the three votes were actually on the same person and was going after two on them while completely ignoring the third existed. Like I was specifically making posts that only *two* people had voted and completely ignored the actually scummiest person who did it. All I can do is laugh at myself in hindsight really.

Of course I saw it. I just didn't remember it, nor did I look far enough back in the ISO to see it because I focused on 220 instead. Being introspective for a moment, this game is honestly kind of a blur for me already as it's getting the scraps of my mental energy that I can actually spare for it. I just had more of it because I was off work today.

In a vacuum I'm ok with it though, as I've said at some point in every game when pushed to self-meta that my day 1 play is not affected by my alignment and is representative of my real-life influences... And ultimately this will be the game that proves that. I don't have it and I know I don't have it, though I do stand by my process of thinking Galron is more likely than not to be scum because of his burst-spew, but also not particularly trusting the train on him.

It still bothers me how many people seem to consider him virtual lockscum already when I don't think that argument is there. Last time I saw a day that felt like this, town voted off it's cop less than an hour after the day started in a 48/24 game. I was the host of that game.

[Crescent]

When on Earth did I ever say it looked like town to me?

Yep, it is. Galron has made a habit of fluffing up his post count by making several consecutive short posts at a time that don't really say much, which is inherently a scum minded action in order to appear more contributory. I do think there's a decent chance he's scum here, but I also think the semi-inactives who are voting him with effectively 0 content need to do more.

The issue I have with Galron is to some extent it seems measured. He consistently bursts out strings of very short posts that don't say very much, and it's a pretty classic way of beefing up one's overall post count to look active, without actually providing a lot of content. So much of his ISO is just surface level stuff that doesn't really dig into anything. This is primarily why I think he's more likely to be scum than not. I feel like he's just saying things more than he's actually trying to solve anything.

[Crescent]

When 3 of the 4 lowest posters in the game are on the train, and 2 of them are inactive, I'm going to scrutinize that train 100% of the time. Whether I scumread the player independently or not is ultimately secondary. Even if Galron is scum here, there's a good possibility that one of the voters on him is scum. Pressing on these voters is something that should be done

before[/i[ a flip.

[Crescent]

I don't see the why, why would your questions be pointed specifically like this? and it might be a difference in style or something, idk- as I mentioned I like throwing my vote all over the place, and according to the games you've played your play so far looks legit, you don't tend to vote a lot, etc- but surely you must have some convictions

I'm a pot stirrer, and my primary drive is to gather data because that is how I function. I think these votes need to be pressured sooner rather than later because it gives us the most accurate data, and doing it day 2 after a flip and 48+ hours to think dilutes the results. I'm used to doing this in games where day 1 is usually 1,500+ posts in 48 hours, but those games tend to blow me out in one shot and then I need like, weeks to recover from them.

Speaking of inactives, Eater just hit the 48 hour mark and should be prodded.

But also one of the biggest reasons I barely vote is most people are so vote happy that I find my general lack of voting helps add balance to the game. I don't believe I need to place a vote to pressure someone, and I will dog people who dodge my questions. I don't care about conventional meta and basically all conventional tells are NAI for me. Making a truly egregious error in a game is actually a major town tell for me.

Like there was a game based on Mass Effect once... And a player had the character "Jack". He had no idea the character was female, and he claimed his character as a guy. He was instantly locktowned by the entire game for it. I'd be the same if I did something like that.

[Crescent]

When 3 of the 4 lowest posters in the game are on the train, and 2 of them are inactive, I'm going to scrutinize that train 100% of the time. Whether I scumread the player independently or not is ultimately secondary. Even if Galron is scum here, there's a good possibility that one of the voters on him is scum. Pressing on these voters is something that should be done

before[/i[ a flip.

yeah that makes sense, all stuff I'm down for. last question before I go to bed bc I obviously need it, who would you wanna see flip the most today?

Galron has yet to give me any reason to believe he is town, though I don't feel the level of confidence there I would like.

Like... KT and Mala both giving random unexplained townreads was sure a thing just now.

[Crescent]

Also the primary reason I've kept myself up this long is finally settled so Imma get to bed too.

Wonder if I'll wake up to some.. Actual explanations from either of those two.

[Crescent]

what are your thoughts on crescent haschel?

Very similar to yours; in fact your post 379 sums it up perfectly. The interactions between Crescent and Garlon are why I was pressing Garlon about Crescent in the first place.

Now, Crescent's post here:

I'm a pot stirrer, and my primary drive is to gather data because that is how I function. I think these votes need to be pressured sooner rather than later because it gives us the most accurate data, and doing it day 2 after a flip and 48+ hours to think dilutes the results.

[...]

But also one of the biggest reasons I barely vote is most people are so vote happy that I find my general lack of voting helps add balance to the game. I don't believe I need to place a vote to pressure someone, and I will dog people who dodge my questions.

...is exactly the sort of thing I enjoy because I play that way, so I'm certainly willing to see where Crescent is going with all this for now. But if she believes the wagon on Garlon is suspicious, then I certainly hope she increases the pressure because right now for all her talk it's not as much as I would prefer to see.

You tell me, what more is there to do?

I caught Red and I questioned him immediately on his. KT and Mala both showed up and were gone in a flash. Mala has one post in the last like, two days. I've called out the inactives on him a few times now.

Finally drew out some "reads" from both of them that weren't about Galron, which of course weren't explained at all. Mala basically just.. Sheeped her own Sailor Moon post from after she voted Galron, IIRC. Now I'm probably going to read 30+ more posts in the upcoming pages about Galron being confscum that ignores that those two barely even exist, despite being on the top train all day. Maybe I'll be proven wrong when I actually read the upcoming pages, but I do see that neither said anything overnight.

As for your vote, I never really had a problem with it to begin with. Primarily what I'd like to see from you is more posts in general, but what you do post is quite significantly better than what they post.

[Crescent]

Crescent repeatedly attempting to undermine the Galron wagon makes me think she could be scum, if Galron is but Sean/Eir isnt

I wouldn't say I've undermined the wagon, but I have questioned it. Three of the votes on that wagon are objectively very weak (Mala, Red, and Kitty), and the votes include 3 of the 4 lowest posters in the entire game.

And it's weird for you to jump to that conclusion because you know I question

everything

. You should know enough to be worried if I

didn't

question it.

The votes on Galron being lazy doesn’t mean that Galron isn’t scum. Galron could be scum and the votes are either bussing or lazy town, Galron could be town and the votes could be scum jumping on a wagon or lazy town. I do think that Galron is scum, and I think that KT is bussing Galron based on their interactions. The others votes on Galron aren’t necessarily AI.

This is exactly what I said yesterday: Galron is likely scum, there's a good chance one scum is on him, and it's likely KT if there is.

But my bigger concern isn't even precisely that. If Galron is scum, KT's vote on him looks worst. If he's town, Mala's vote on him looks worst. I am not convinced he's scum, and I see a scenario with either flip that reflects poorly with on one of those two. The play is to pressure both, so whatever flip we do get, we have answers before we get it.

And for the record, Mala's vote doesn't feel like a bus at all, and KT's vote doesn't feel like scum voting town at all. I think the likelihood of one being town also goes up regardless of the flip.

Oh also for some reason I thought there were like 50 new posts. The hell number did I think this ended at last night.

[Crescent]

Catching up now. I doubt Galron gets eliminated here D1 if they're scum.

crescent how does this post make you feel? not in your head, but in your heart

Catching up now. I doubt Galron gets eliminated here D1 if they're scum.

crescent how does this post make you feel? not in your head, but in your heart

My thought when I saw that post was "player who looked at the game for the first time, saw a large train already, and immediately attacked it on principle before actually reading the game".

This being followed by a vote based on some really early posts and not much else suggests to me this is a player who probably never read much between posts 100 and 300. Settled on a vote based on post #104 and never went deeper into the train.

When it comes down to it though: If Galron is scum, this feels like a ton of unnecessary exposure to take in because the reasons for defending him are awkward at best. The Mala vote is easy to fake, but is ultimately a good vote if you are town and believe Galron is town. I can see the reaction being town-driven distrust of what seems like a way-too-easy train to someone participating in the game for the first time.

That said, I need to see more posts and more content before I feel at all satisfied with it. Theree are no mid-game reactions, and the vote, while justified in her position, is not strong because she lacks the content to back them up. Like, #362 is not going to convince *anyone* that flipping Mala is the play today.

The tl;dr of it all is I see the action being more likely to be town driven if Galron is scum, but I need to see a lot more to be confident in that feel.

Also, likely scum =/= Being convinced someone is scum. There is a very sizable difference between being 75% sure and being 95% sure that someone is scum.

[Crescent]

it's scummy to have a lot of townreads because if you're town you have no idea who could be LURKING

Speaking of lurking, 4 of the 5 people who have posted least recently combine for 18 posts, which combined is less than the next lowest poster in the game (19). Eater doesn't have one in almost 2 1/2 days.

I don't think it's necessarily scum slanted to have multiple early townreads though, provided there are good reasons for them.

[Crescent]

You don't seem to be doing a lot of Galron pushing after you started accusing me of bussing.

I do want to hear where this thought comes from, as just last night he went after me because he misread my posts and thought I was defending him.

[Crescent]

it's the kind of comfort that having a lot of townreads affords you and the lack of healthy town paranoia

has eater been prodded yet? I don't remember

Yep. He hit 48 hours when we were going back and forth last night, I immediately called for the prod, and he was prodded this morning.

48 hours is too long.

[Crescent]

You don't seem to be doing a lot of Galron pushing after you started accusing me of bussing.

I do want to hear where this thought comes from, as just last night he went after me because he misread my posts and thought I was defending him.

I'm sorry who are you referring to here? I'm confused

I want to know what KT was basing that statement on, because I don't see it.

[Crescent]

kitty there is no world in which I would want to hang you before galron, though my suspicion of you has been brewing for a long while and I can point to evidence for that. as for discrediting- having a lot of townreads is something I find really, really suspicious. what am I even discrediting, your gut? what would be the point of continuing to push galron right now? iirc at least two or three other people scumread him enough to be happy with a vote. honestly I feel like galron's in the bag and I believe galron's scum, so like crescent mentioned I'm trying to figure out what to think about that after, something I've been doing since I started questioning galron

1. I never said you wanted me to die today, necessarily, if you are scum bussing.
2. I had no idea this was something people considered suspicious, but that is simply how I play. I townread a lot of people early and focus on one or two scums. It just makes sense. There are way more townies than scumbags and I have no idea why that's sus.
3. Scum!you is discrediting

me

so I am easier to hang next. Town!you is just a wrong townie who doesn't know my meta I guess.
4. Well I always push people to the end even when they're in the bag.

lmfao what are you even talking about now I'm not accusing you of bussing for your tone

Then explain why you are accusing me of bussing.

Do you expect me to have 3 full scumreads less than 20 pages in? It's just Galron and you, and I'm not so sure about you TBH. I just want Galron out.

unironically yes

Well that's bullshit.

The fact that you're the fifth vote, galron's reaction when asked about you, the out of nowhere vote, the lack of scumreads outside of galron. all of these things are things I find scummy, and the last two are things that I think are bad for town regardless of how galron flips, things I think scum do to try to make themselves harder to read after people start flipping. also I think I saw something I was thinking about back when I first questioned galron but I can't remember it, might find it in a sec. the chainsaw defense narrative is also just so bullshit like lol, it's not a chainsaw defense if I'm clearly not trying to switch mine or anyone else's vote off galron I'll be here until he's goneron

1. Because everybody who jumps on a wagon late is scum.
2. Because scum can't calculate their words to make townies look bad.
3. It wasn't out of nowhere, it was me sheeping.
4. It's early, I focus on one big scumread early.
5. It looked like a chainsaw to my pissed-off mind but you explained yourself so I dropped my SR.

it's scummy to have a lot of townreads because if you're town you have no idea who could be LURKING

This doesn't make sense, there are more townies than scum so it makes sense to have more townreads than scumreads. And I find it easier to townread than scumread.

I guess we just have incompatible playstyles.

and just to clarify, the reason you might think I haven't been doing a lot of galron pushing is probably because I'm pretty satisfied with my vote for once in my life- I've gotten some sweet juicy takes from him, I'm convinced he's scum and he's committed to not really contributing much on his own, what else can I get from him? if you actually want him out today we should be on the same side today

See, I don't give up on my pushes like that. I genuinely didn't know people did that. I can see it now and I guess I misunderstood you. Sorry for pushing you, your tone honestly angered me.

sorry about the tone, I don't mean anything by it. I just like being silly for its own sake sometimes, don't mean to come across passive aggressive
still don't like your push though and I don't buy the chainsaw defense thing was actually something town would come up with, even angy town

When I'm angry I say a lot of things I regret.

You don't seem to be doing a lot of Galron pushing after you started accusing me of bussing.

I do want to hear where this thought comes from, as just last night he went after me because he misread my posts and thought I was defending him.

I didn't stop pushing Galron tho. Neither did redcardinal but

that wasn't obvious to me at the time

.

The issue was more.. Given the all of like, 9 1/2 hours before that she was pressuring me because she thought I was defending him, I don't see what changed in that timeframe to even give you that impression in the first place.

[Crescent]

You don't seem to be doing a lot of Galron pushing after you started accusing me of bussing.

I do want to hear where this thought comes from, as just last night he went after me because he misread my posts and thought I was defending him.

ooooooh if this is referring to me my pronouns are she/her

I think it's referring to me.

kittytacky can I get some insight into your reads beyond galron?

Seanzie town, Crescent town, Mala slightly town. Gamma probably town too.

Why am I town?

Gut and your response to pressure.

Good nyaight.

No I was using the wrong pronouns, which I then noticed when it was pointed out and fixed the next time I posted.

[Crescent]

BEHOLD.

MORE FROGS!

[Crescent]

I want mala's fresh scumreads before you die

Wtf is up with you soloing me out

Ngl I like to townblock and then POE from there

So I got lots of towngutvibes

Why you got soloed out:

You had 8 posts, a guy you were voting was -1, and you've... Kinda contributed absolutely nothing outside of that vote.

[Crescent]

He seems to have implied that Gamma tunneling like this is commonplace, but in 3 previous games with Gamma I've never seen anything that even resembles this behavior. Would like an example or two.

I gotta get ready for work soon, I can think some things through while I'm there.

[Crescent]

I kinda dislike Sean's only post in the last two pages being a switch to KT because it feels like a lateral move at best that lacks context. I feel like the most likely options are that Galron and KT are both scum or they're both town. It feels like a reaction for the sake of a reaction.

I almost accidentally posted that saying they're both scum or they're both scum that woulda been funny.

[Crescent]

I think he's probably telling the truth about the power he's claiming, but the power itself only confirms it's own existence - It doesn't confirm alignment.

Like, I had a confirmable power in that last scumgame of mine I've referenced before, and it definitely helped with wrangling the sheep that were alive in the lategame. I very much let a specific someone doubt it was real at first before I used it, and they never bothered to actually think it through ever again <3

[Crescent]

Oh and I don't see Kitty/Garlon being S/T based on like, pretty much everything Kitty has done. Scum rarely votes town with that kind of showmanship, and Kitty only got strongly defensive when paired as scum with Galron by multiple people, during which they accused someone of "chainsawing" or whatever and using Galron as an excuse to suspect them instead of suspecting Galron himself when it wasn't true.

If this is S/T, what is Kitty's motive in drawing so much attention to it, but doing nothing else? What is Kitty's motive in reacting to Red the way they did to Red iIf Galron is town? Why would they feel the need to be this defensive in the first place? I already personally said by this point I down think it's S/T, and that their vote is only the worst vote on Galron if Galron is scum. I feel like I'm not the only one with this mentality.

S/T doesn't make any sense to me here, and I don't feel like we're walking into some elaborate masterminded setup here, either.

[Crescent]

I changed one of those sentences midway through and good lord did I not fix that sentence what a mess.

But anyways there is a "possibility" of Kitty being town and Galron being scum, but I consider the reverse to be very unlikely.

[Crescent]

Just because Galron is true claiming doesn’t make him town. That’s a naive mindset.

Your face is a naive mindset.

um, so do you think the role makes galron town then

I think it makes Galron more likely town, yes. Granted though the way people have been acting, maybe neighbor isn't as townie as a role on this forum as what I'd expect. Either way, I still kinda think KT is a better elim right now.

I've yet to see an all-town hood in a game, though I know it theoretically can happen.

[Crescent]

Oh and I don't see Kitty/Garlon being S/T based on like, pretty much everything Kitty has done. Scum rarely votes town with that kind of showmanship, and Kitty only got strongly defensive when paired as scum with Galron by multiple people, during which they accused someone of "chainsawing" or whatever and using Galron as an excuse to suspect them instead of suspecting Galron himself when it wasn't true.

If this is S/T, what is Kitty's motive in drawing so much attention to it, but doing nothing else? What is Kitty's motive in reacting to Red the way they did to Red iIf Galron is town? Why would they feel the need to be this defensive in the first place? I already personally said by this point I down think it's S/T, and that their vote is only the worst vote on Galron if Galron is scum. I feel like I'm not the only one with this mentality.

S/T doesn't make any sense to me here, and I don't feel like we're walking into some elaborate masterminded setup here, either.

I don't really agree with this post. There are plenty of ways Kitty/Galron could be s/t here. I don't agree that Kitty's vote couldn't be scum voting a townie. In a s/t world, Kitty saying Red was chainsaw defending Galron is a good way to continue pushing Galron in the situation and after a Galron townflip, Kitty has an out to back off Red, dissolving the tension there. Kitty's behavior has just been wolfy, and that is regardless of Galron's alignment. Galron's play has been more null IMO, not townie, but not directly wolfy either.

The issue I have is I don't see Kitty having any need to have that reaction to Red in the first place in that scenario. It feels unnecessary to go in that hard.

[Crescent]

The Neighbors where I'm used to are paired together like masons but not informed of each other's alignment. There is a decent chance one will be scum, but it's certainly not a given.

Neighborhoods here that I've seen so far are 4 players that share a private thread. They can have power roles aside from this (Mathblade was Gunsmith Neighbor in 2272, and Titus was Scum Neighbor), and theoretically any number of them can be scum. PT Cop can be employed in games with Neighborhoods, as said Neighborhoods can potentially give them false-positives.

[Crescent]

Reading back, KT is way harsher towards Red than my memory was telling me. I remembered it as them being defensive... But it's not quite that. #438-439-448 is kinda horrid spew that accuses Red of defending Galron, and immediately slots her as scum with Galron in a pretty blatant deflection.

Buuuut he also calmed down and backed off pretty quickly after that, which does feel like an actual progression.

[Crescent]

It's both impression and experience. Both hoods I've personally played with had scum in them.

On a side note, I feel like I'm going to crash early tonight, so I'm going to bring up one other thing that's on my mind.

Mala still needs to do this thing called "content", for the most part, but her last 4 posts give me annoyed town vibes. It gives me the impression she was actually riding some sort of high in the way she was voting for Galron early in the day, and legit just wants him dead before she does anything else.

Also it's borderline inexplicable to me why, but #517 especially just doesn't feel like a scum reaction.

[Crescent]

Good lord I'm supposed to notice things like that zzzz

[Crescent]

Honestly my one core issue still has not changed. It still feels like surface level posting. Galron has been parked on the same RVS vote since post #42, and has never once earnestly pursued another player to be scum.

[Crescent]

I'm not sure. She overreacted last night in a way that inexplicably town vibed me. Definitely would need to be pressured, though.

[Crescent]

Oh and to further that Galron issue I specifically have, he now has 59 posts. It's worse than just not hunting for scum. I just tried to remember who he's ever given a town read to and failed.

I then quick scanned his ISO to see if one existed, and it doesn't. The closest thing he has to stating a read on anyone is calling Gamma both town and scum in the post he claimed.

There is virtually no serious content in these 59 posts. Simple questions to other players but never anything resembling actual pressure or reads on anyone.

[Crescent]

Oh also I said last night I didn't smell like Kitty was doing some elaborate setup to mess with us.

If there's one thing I

do

smell a potential "set up" on, its Sean voting Galron -1, Galron almost immediately claiming, and Sean quickly voting back onto KT as his only immediate reaction. I do not like his reaction to Gamma's retort when he attempted to use the claim to call Galron town, and I feel like he's still pushing an angle where Kitty is scum and Galron is town, despite giving no good reasons to call Galron town.

Sean was never sold on Galron being scum (notably he pushed the Kitty/Galron S/T thought before this). and the -1 vote kinda comes out of nowhere.

I said last night I could conceivably see Town Kitty with Scum Galron. If that scenario is the case, I think Sean is scum.

[Crescent]

You now already have as many posts as the guy you replaced.

[Crescent]

okay I mean I know why it's because he's scum
enchant, want some time to read the thread or do you wanna read it at night?

I don't plan to read, unless there's something important you want me to show.

Also, I'm a Kitty. Meow.

[Crescent]

Oh and you also being used to 48/24 like me does make the Galron vote more understandable. 14 day-long days are kinda ridiculous.

[Crescent]

The way Mala interacted with Galron basically made her confirmed town as soon as he flipped scum.

Killing me for that read was kinda questionable.