Mini Normal 2300: THIS GAME HAS A VIG [game over]

[Black]

VOTE: Malakittens

Patch...did you roll scum without me?

[Black]

Friendly note that I'm not around much on weekends, so if this game pops off in the next couple of days then I'll have to play catch-up on Monday

[Black]

VOTE: Malakittens

Patch...did you roll scum without me?

NOOO :SOB: I CHECKED MY PM AND I WAS VT AND I SWEAR I WAS SO MAD AHSDJASHAJ

At first it caught me off guard that you claimed VT here. Then I realized idk how this setup works and I couldn't find it anywhere. Is it one vig-type, two wolves, and the rest are VT?

[Black]

I don't think we know anything except the title of the thread is probably true

Ok. I think I'm under the impression that mini games don't have a lot of variation in roles but I have no clue where I picked that up

Also I don't want ANYONE to read my setup spec and go "I'm not a vig, Wolf, or VT!" ...that would just be incredibly stupid. Keep your information to yourself

[Black]

The only thing we know is there's a vig (and a VT since it's a normal), there could be whatever other roles.

Ok thank you for clarifying this

Knowing this, patch's VT claim feels a lot worse

[Black]

VOTE: Black

I sense an imbalance of genuineness between Black and Patchwork. Also 17 and 26 feel sorta like nothing posts. Like duh asking for clarification on things is normal but, is that it?

What are you expecting from me, realistically?
Do you want me to solve the game on page 1?

[Black]

that would be helpful but I think that's not particularly feasible. But y'know take my vote as an open invitation to change my mind

I can't take your vote seriously, sorry

I'll solve the game at my own pace

[Black]

also can you explain what exactly you find weird about Patch's claim? Like there's obvious reasons but I want to hear yours specifically

im gonna cry i didnt mean to claim

The only thing we know is there's a vig (and a VT since it's a normal), there could be whatever other roles.

Ok thank you for clarifying this

Knowing this, patch's VT claim feels a lot worse

how

Well there's the obvious paranoia that patch slipped the VT claim in there to try and earn towncred. "Oops I didn't mean to claim, it slipped"

However I can totally see patch doing this because they play pretty loose, so while it's weird and I don't really like it the claim is probably NAI

[Black]

Also evening! hope you’re all well.

Evening eh? I hope all is well across the pond! Nice to meet you!

[Black]

VOTE: malakittens

This is scum mala trying to fling dirt anywhere until it sticks. This is not even remotely the town mala I have played with either.

What the heck

UNVOTE: mala

[Black]

btw mala is e-1 i think, let's not have a lolhammer

VOTE: malakittens

ur already voting them

Was I? I hoped we had ended day 1 already

Are you fr?

[Black]

It's been a very busy weekend for me. I'm not sure if I can read the last several pages today but if not then I'll catch up first thing tomorrow morning

[Black]

OK I'M HERE

I just spent some time catching up elsewhere on the site and now I'll turn my attention here

Expect a slight wall post coming soon

[Black]

115 - hi patch :3

116 - I agree with Invisibility here

120 - idk how I feel about this patch. I don't think taking people's word for weak meta reads is probably the best course of action. But I've had some real terrible interactions involving stupid meta arguments lately so my opinion might be tainted a bit

122 - this feels a little fence-sitty from bris

131 - I can't tell if geraintm is trolling here or really believes this. If the latter then this is pretty anti-town behavior

132 - not really following these reads by Umlaut

138 - I don't think a massclaim is good D1 in any setup but I'm sure there are some I'm not thinking about

146 - I don't like this vote by geraintm. Feels kinda omgus to me

153 - yeah, I guess you could say this action might be slightly town indicative for patch. I still think it's something scum!patch could throw in to take advantage of the fact that she plays fast and loose though which is why I felt pretty NAI about it

155 - I still can't believe we won Death Note <3

158 - this is how I feel about geraintm atm. I like that mala sees this too

168 - I kinda feel the same way as Greeting here, but I want more reason as to why you think this way, just like I need more reasoning from Umlaut about his list

174 - I like this post from patch and it makes me think they are genuinely trying to solve here

182 - I like this response to geraintm's bris vote. I'm getting +town vibes from bris coming out of this interaction

184 - this doesn't feel genuine from Venmar. Why do you have Greeting in good vibes and null vibes? Also not really liking Venmar's vote in 185 and call for others to sheep him while refusing to give a reason

192 - this post makes me feel somewhat better about geraintm's alignment. This implies he's trying to look bad and his honesty here in admitting it kinda makes me think he could be town

233 - I don't mind this vote but I don't think the reasoning is very good

[Black]

VOTE: Venmar

I wanna vote here atm

[Black]

Venmar reacts poorly to my vote. In other news, water is wet

[Black]

Venmar is playing the typical scum hanging out in the background role here. I encourage others to join me on this glorious yet empty wagon

[Black]

Black and I agree on a lot of this. This is cool.

Mindmeld moment

[Black]

Patch can I ask why you're not voting anyone right now?

i'm trying to find a player i want to apply pressure on, but no one seems like they've done anything exceptionally scummy yet, perhaps asides from venmar (as discussed earlier) or bri (bad vibes to me). venmar is a big wagon and i need to write a case if i want to push someone properly.

Do you think NK has been townie this game? I don't

[Black]

Well I'm not telling you what to do with your vote, but I will offer a suggestion. Sometimes putting pressure on this type of slot will help you sort them. If you're not getting much out of them...force them into uncomfortable interactions and see how they respond

[Black]

I realize Blacks reasoning is more nuanced but I think y'all are being opportunistic and voting me for taking a laid back approach to this game and its easy convenient for scum to take advantage of that and push an easy wagon, and that's the vibe Black is giving me!

This reads as you think I'm scum but that townies jumped on the wagon. Would this be a fair assessment?

[Black]

Yeah, I thought

Umlaut

could get a town point for admitting it. But still, I honestly don't like the reads. I mean, putting

Not Known 15

above null? I just don't really see it as warranted or justfiable. I also completely disagree with his evaluation of

Mala

.

Also, I really dislike how the wagon on me appeared suddenly only when

Umlaut

reached E-2. Feels like a distraction.

There are only two scum, so if scum are coördinating to wagon you that makes me town.

VOTE: umlaut

Is this a slip?

It's an 11 player game so 2 mafia seems likely. Throw in the vig though, could it be 8-3? Still seems to heavily favor scum from just a numbers perspective especially when you consider the vig has a higher chance of killing a townie

I think 2 scum is likely. Umlaut seems to think it's definite though

[Black]

Black's #256 bothered me because a chunk of the wall is irrelevant comments ("Hi patch", "Cant believe we won death note", etc), a lot of it is just empty commentary to me ("not following these reads by Umlaut", "this feels a little fence-sitty from bris", etc) that feels like Black trying to find a reason to be productive and useful as !scum, like trying to fill a quota, rather than being a townie trying to focus on something and scumhunting, and a lot of the reads are just pretty non-committal and fencesitty in of themselves (see the comments to 153, 233, 120, etc) despite her criticizing others for the same.

Minimizing my catch-up post to "empty commentary" is pretty disingenuous. Did I solve the game? No, but I gave thoughts on most everything I felt was worthy of talking about. There's more content in that one post than you've provided all game. Even if it was empty it would still be better than no content at all

Her reasons for voting me are then also pretty poor since idk how she spends much of the post throwing shade at other players, some more than me like Umlaut, and then decided to single me out because I accidentally wrote down Greeting twice in my reads post and because I jokingly told people to sheep me with no context on Umlaut. Former reason is just bogus and the latter feels like manufactured outrage.

This reads as "Black's reasons to vote me are poor because those reasons could apply to other people so it doesn't make sense for them to vote for me"

What kind of opinion is this? Maybe if I had 3 votes I could spread them around to all the lurkers I think could be scum, but I don't. So you are my choice. There's nothing poor about that reasoning at all

It definitely feels like Black is really reaching and making a mountain out of a molehill by focusing on stuff like that

and taking advantage of the fact that I've decided to play passive

and have provided no context for me vibe reads which is a really easy playstyle to just blindly attack as scum with not much effort.

Yeah? Where have you stated that you made a conscious decision to play passive this game? To me this just sounds like an excuse for your lurking behavior. "Oh I decided to play passive this game". Yeah, wolves do that too. We're going to need stuff from you that shows us you're town if you're town

[Black]

You're giving her a lot of credit, what she's doing isn't "bad", she got me to E-2 with no real effort. Re-read her post with what I said about it in mind. There's not much meat or substance in the post and tell me with a straight face that her voting me out of that pile of reads/observations makes sense

There's chicken there. I'm sorry if you prefer steak. Maybe bring some to the table yourself?

[Black]

11:2 is mod-confirmed both in 1 and in the queue.

I even looked and couldn't find it XD

Thanks

[Black]

ok I basically got what I wanted to see from Venmar. UNVOTE: . Which was content.

Curious about this. Venmar's content was basically attacking the person that attacked him. Personally I think we need to see a lot more solving from this slot

[Black]

Black calling it out because her whole musing about "maybe it's 2 scum, maybe it's 3" seems like it could be trying to sell people on her not knowing the setup.

I didn't know the setup

And what would the scum motivation be for lying about that here?

[Black]

I mean the simplest motivation would just be to have a 'legitimate' legible reason to call me scum and get me yeeted.

I'm not saying you're scum, I'm just saying you don't get townpoints for the callout.

I know you're not calling me scum but I still think we should talk this out

I don't think me lying about this would do what you think it might do. I would basically have to hope and pray that

no one

read the post that confirms there are 9:2. Doesn't sound like a good play imo

[Black]

Actually the more I think about it, how did either of you seriously believe I would slip

that

hard? I'm not claiming to be any sort of especially skilled Mafia player but even on day 1 on this site I would not have made that mistake.

Read my post again. I didn't think you slipped

[Black]

Oh, you think I'm saying you lied about not knowing that 9:2 was common knowledge. No, as either alignment I think you genuinely didn't know that. What I meant was that I could see scum making a point of saying "I mean, 2 scum seems reasonable but maybe it's 3 idk?" if they think town wouldn't know which it was.

I see. Yeah, I agree. I can see that play coming from scum too

[Black]

Wait, I might have misunderstood 346 altogether. Black, were you saying

gerain

might have slipped? Because if so I didn't follow the post at all and I need you to expand it more. I know it's moot now but I still want to know what you were saying.

No, you read it right. I was asking gerain if your 2 mafia comment was actually a slip

[Black]

Venmar, are you going to tunnel on me or are you actually going to contribute to the game?

Your content has been very light and I feel like you are using me as a way to provide more content without actually providing much in terms of game solving

Like cool, you think I'm scum. What are your other thoughts on the game?

[Black]

How ironic that you deflected my question with that post

[Black]

Like I think it mostly reflects poorly on Umlaut, it's interesting that when the posts can be simple setup discussion or defense of himself is when he decided to be more active (I know I know Black this looks like me a bit!!!). Really juicing the content if you know what I mean.

This is a good post

[Black]

Do you have a top TR atm Venmar?

[Black]

i feel like while i mindmeld with a lot of black's ISO, it is a little bare-boned

What does this even mean? You agree with a lot of what I'm saying but I'm not saying enough?

[Black]

Honestly my head and heart are not in it right now

[Black]

I feel like the speed and easiness with which my wagon has grown should probably tell y'all something but hey, that's just me.

When I asked you about your wagon you said you thought a bunch of townies jumped on

[Black]

I think Umlaut kinda jumped on pretty seamlessly and didn't really express why other than that he kinda agrees with the points against you

I specifically didn't vote with much reasoning because I wanted to see how people handled me calling for a wagon on you

Out of everyone that jumped on I'm most suspicious of Umlaut

[Black]

Damn, I guess you caught me, I'm scum

That's not what I was implying. I guess I should have asked if you still feel this way, but your second post kinda answers that for me

[Black]

VOTE: Umlaut

We can shake this tree and see what falls out if you want Venmar

[Black]

EBWOP: that looks weird but I was already planning on moving on from the Venmar wagon before the e-1

[Black]

Venmar had no rebuke to you but "I guess you caught me"; you think that's town?

No, I was never really convinced Venmar was scum in the first place. I wanted to vote a lurky slot and see how the wagon played out

I'm not a huge fan of Venmar's response to my vote but I think the frustration feels real. I think this slot might actually flip town

[Black]

NK and gerain look pretty scummy here imo

[Black]

NK and gerain look pretty scummy here imo

Why?

406 is an awful reason to vote for someone, let alone put them at e-1

[Black]

something feels off about black here tbh... i've played a lot of games with her and this doesn't really feel like town black here. it reminds me more of her play in 2113 where she mostly sat around looking like she was contributing but not really doing much if that makes sense? but i also don't remember 2113 all that well so i'm not too confident about it. i agree with a lot of the stuff she says but none of that warrants a townread, town and scum can agree on things and it's not neccesarily AI

This is the second time someone has accused me of not doing much this game and I don't get it at all. I started the Venmar wagon, sorted him based on his reaction to it, then analyzed the wagon and now I'm trying to find scum on it. That's the most recent thing I've been doing and before that I wasn't around much because of weekend stuff. So like...what's your issue?

[Black]

Hot take, the entire scum team is in this pool of players: {

Umlaut

,

T3

,

Not Known 15

and

bristep123

}.

The rest all give varying degrees of town vibes.

This is a pretty spicy take but I don't have any issues with it atm. I'm curious what your thoughts are on T3

[Black]

Excessive posting from scum usually looks like shitposting

I disagree. I think it depends on the player. For example when I'm scum I don't really shit post much

[Black]

That being said I currently TR Invisibility so I'm not necessarily saying his excitement is scum motivated, I just don't think it's true that scum normally shit post

[Black]

I skimmed T3's iso because he was kind of in my blind slot. I think he leans town. There's clear solving involved in his game and I like that he referenced a newbie game when he was expanding on his Umlaut read. I feel pretty good about sorting this slot as town atm

[Black]

Blind spot*

[Black]

Kind of curious how nobody has asked me to claim yet lol

I think that should come after someone declares intent to hammer, but I guess people don't always do that. I guess you can decide if it's a good idea for you to claim or not

There's definitely scum on my wagon the question is are they both on it.

My instinct tells me that they would probably want to push in different directions rather than be on the same wagon

[Black]

You people aren't even reading my posts really, it's not a "why me" argument, it's the fact that Black mentioned me once in her post but threw shade at Umlaut twice, Gera twice, and Bris once. Her views "evolved" on the latter two a bit by the end of the post but idk how someone spends a catchup post talking about others more including twice about how she didn't like Umlaut and his reads list and then pulls me out of the hat unless they are scum pretending to give out reads and then pushing someone arbitrary that is in their interest to do so.

I have no idea why you are still caught up on me voting for you. You're acting like I wrote my vote in pen and announced that I'm not budging. Like why are you so fixated on the fact that I voted for you over Umlaut? There was already a wagon formed on him if I'm not mistaken and there was a lot more value in creating a wagon on you. Why can't you get over the fact that I voted for you?

[Black]

My vote on you wasn't scummy at all. Your fixation on it is weird

[Black]

And clearly I don't want you to roll over and die because I think you might be town here. But you can stop bringing up the fact that my vote on you makes no sense, because it made perfect sense

[Black]

I disagree! You should hammer me if you think my fixation is weird!

What kind of logic is this? Weird doesn't equal scummt

[Black]

Scummy*

[Black]

I disagree! You should hammer me if you think my fixation is weird!

You really want to die on this hill?

You really don't see the value in starting a wagon on you, even after all the discussion it has created? You don't see why I chose to wagon you over Umlaut?

You called someone else dense, but I'm having a hard time believing you can't see the town motivation behind my vote

[Black]

I didn't say my vote was perfect and super townie. I said it wasn't scummy. I've argued against your weak reasoning for finding it scummy and you're just like "well I still think it's scummy"

You're not even acknowledging my arguments as to why I voted you over Umlaut. You don't care about sorting me, you just want to be right

[Black]

You keep bringing up the fact that I mentioned other people more than you but still voted for you, and you're trying to shade me for it. I told you why I didn't vote Umlaut, and it should be obvious why I didn't vote gerain since I started to TR him a little by the end of the post. So why do you keep insinuating that it was weird of me to vote for you there?

[Black]

Are you more interested in me sorting you, you being right, or me just not SReading you anymore?

I'm trying to understand your perspective. I don't care about being right. I think it's important for you to clear your reads up before you die. Your scumread on me is inaccurate so it's my job to try to figure out where the disconnect is

[Black]

Like why are you so fixated on the fact that I voted for you over Umlaut? There was already a wagon formed on him if I'm not mistaken and there was a lot more value in creating a wagon on you.

[Black]

Stop moving the goalposts. Your original issue was that I voted for you despite mentioning Umlaut more. "It doesn't make sense for Black to vote me when they mentioned other people more." I explained why I voted for you and now your issue is that a counterwagon to Umlaut is scummy?

You just don't want to be wrong

[Black]

No that's my issue with your current explanation for going for Umlaut originally, which wasn't your original reason until recently? It was in the back of my head originally though

I never explained why I voted you over Umlaut until now. And tbh I didn't even have to explain it now but I wanted to give you insight. I should have known you would try to twist it against me

This conversation is going no where

[Black]

sick pagetop mala

[Black]

VOTE: umlaut

Lowkey don’t vibe wi venmar scum

Same

[Black]

Who are your scumreads atm mala?

[Black]

Man these wagons are spicy

[Black]

We should be declaring intent to hammer before we do so. That will give one of these two time to claim. Only one should claim imo

[Black]

aw man why do I gotta be the one who's not on an e-1 wagon

What are your current thoughts on Venmar/Umlaut?

[Black]

(and tbh i still don't because i skimmed most of it which is probably antitown and maybe i should like actually read that lol)

Yeah I think it's generally a good idea to read before forming an opinion XD

You seem really unsure about this and tbh I'm not sure why you've posted so much about it if you've only skimmed over things

[Black]

it just seems like you were kinda fixated on venmar for a while which reminds me of ur tunnel on empath in 2113

I'm not sure how you could legitimately have this impression, but ig if you're not reading then it might make sense. I talked about other stuff even when I was engaging with Venmar, so why do you think I was fixated on him? And how can you compare that with the Empath thing which lasted for like 4 days?

[Black]

I think Venmar and Black is TvT. They both seem like they're working hard to sort each other and also they are making good and also not as good points about each other

mindmeld

I'm not getting the impression that you townread me here. At best it seems like you have me at null based on all the "off" feelings you've been getting? So this "mindmeld" feels weird

[Black]

Sounds like viz is ultimately going to intent me anyway if he's townreading Venmar but not me. I'm not going to be around later this evening so I'll claim now. I'm a VT.

I stand by my claims gerain, Black, patchwork, Invis are all town. Not quite enough to PoE the game but a good start if it can become consensus.

Ok. This claim means we should probably just go through with this. There's no need to make Venmar claim now

I think we wait to hammer though just for more discussion

[Black]

VOTE: NK15

[Black]

I won't be around much this weekend but I want to analyze the wagons when I get a chance

[Black]

Gosh darn it, who is scum?

What kind of question is this?

[Black]

I got some town vibes from our exchange on D1 Venmar but this feels like fake frustration and a question for the audience rather than a genuine thought

[Black]

UNVOTE:

We're not limming before I analyze this

[Black]

like iirc no one scumreads me as of right now
anyways bri i have a question for you. what's your read on mala, and why?

I don't townread you. I think you could definitely be scum

[Black]

like iirc no one scumreads me as of right now
anyways bri i have a question for you. what's your read on mala, and why?

I don't townread you. I think you could definitely be scum

Any thoughts on Mala, Greeting, whats happened last two pages, etc?

I haven't read the last few pages in detail but I didn't like Greeting putting NK at e-1

Mala is in my blind spot. What should I look at regarding her?

[Black]

What was your original read on her in D1?

She's been in my blind spot the whole game. All I remember is NK putting her at e-1 on like page 6 or something and thinking that was pretty scummy of NK

All I see is Venmar/patches voting together pretty much this entire game. If this is the pair I'm going to lol

[Black]

You we're on the Umlaut wagon together D1 which just so happened to be the Venmar counterwagon. You two also tried to shade me at the same time but you never voted me like Venmar did

I also find it a little weird how you didn't vote until the game was almost 500 posts long. Normally you get into it quicker it think

Spoiler: Venmar/Patch

VC 1.15

Venmar

(5): bristep123, Umlaut, T3, Not Known 15, geraintm

Umlaut

(4): Greeting, Black, Venmar, patchwork

Not Known 15

(1): Invisibility

Not Voting

(1): Malakittens

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to accidentally disassemble a player. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-05-09 12:20:00).

VC 1.16 (unchanged)

Venmar

(5): bristep123, Umlaut, T3, Not Known 15, geraintm

Umlaut

(4): Greeting, Black, Venmar, patchwork

Not Known 15

(1): Invisibility

Not Voting

(1): Malakittens

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to accidentally disassemble a player. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-05-09 12:20:00).

VC 1.17

Venmar

(5): bristep123, Umlaut, T3, Not Known 15, geraintm

Umlaut

(5): Greeting, Black, Venmar, patchwork, Malakittens

Not Known 15

(1): Invisibility

Not Voting

(0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to accidentally disassemble a player. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-05-09 12:20:00).

VC 1.18

Umlaut

(5): Greeting, Black, Venmar, patchwork, Malakittens

Venmar

(4): bristep123, Umlaut, T3, Not Known 15

Not Known 15

(1): Invisibility

Invisibility

(1): geraintm

Not Voting

(0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to accidentally disassemble a player. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-05-09 12:20:00).

VC 1.19

Umlaut

(6): Greeting, Black, Venmar, patchwork, Malakittens, Not Known 15

Venmar

(3): bristep123, Umlaut, T3

Not Known 15

(1): Invisibility

Invisibility

(1): geraintm

Not Voting

(0):

With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to accidentally disassemble a player. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-05-09 12:20:00).

Mod notes: brb killing Umlaut

VC 2.03

Not Known 15

(2): Invisibility, Greeting

Malakittens

(2): Venmar, patchwork

Venmar

(1): Not Known 15

Greeting

(1): bristep123

Not Voting

(3): Malakittens, geraintm, Black

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to put a player on the blocking chop. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-05-16 09:40:00).

VC 2.04

Malakittens

(2): Venmar, patchwork

Greeting

(2): bristep123, Invisibility

Not Known 15

(1): Greeting

Venmar

(1): Not Known 15

Not Voting

(3): Malakittens, geraintm, Black

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to put a player on the blocking chop. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-05-16 09:40:00).

I feel like scum normally try to avoid this type of stuff but if it's to keep Venmar alive I can kinda see it. There's equity here

[Black]

I think that's a good point mala. Normally you want to pressure a SR

And what was up with this? You voted your top SR on accident and the switched it to mala?

VOTE: Greeting

wait wrong person VOTE: Mala

[Black]

Blacks sudden focus on Patch is weird considering she still hasn't provided the analysis she has promised (presumably on NK, Greeting, exchange between me and Bris, etc) and it feels like a deflection or a changing of topics.

First of all I don't think this can even be considered "focusing" on patch. I'm just commenting on stuff while I'm here. Second, the "analysis" I promised comes tomorrow when I have time to sit in front of a computer

It's also mostly baseless without one of Patch or I flipping and I feel like the interactions between me and Patch are pretty tame or unsuspicious, at least to me. I feel like Patch was combative with me last day off of memory

Where was patch combative with you? Also I don't really think it's baseless. It's not the strongest association but there's equity there

What are your thoughts on patches?

[Black]

Wdym "normally you want to pressure a sr" lol

I just think I pressure scumreads more than I do townreads, but your 652 touches on this and I think it makes sense

[Black]

Wdym "normally you want to pressure a sr" lol

I just think I pressure scumreads more than I do townreads, but your 652 touches on this and I think it makes sense

Aight chill

?

[Black]

UNVOTE:

We're not limming before I analyze this

So, have you analysed it yet?

I don't usually analyze on weekends. What's the rush?

[Black]

My townleans of Black and Malakittens were probably premature

You should expand on this

[Black]

some more news

Enchant replaces Not Known 15.

This made me lol

One useless player gets replaced by another

[Black]

Hi Enchant. Glad you could join us

[Black]

I don't really have motivation to play today. I was gonna do a VCA and try to analyze it...maybe I'll get around to it later

I guess I'm the useless one

[Black]

Mala is town, but I think Venmar might be too

[Black]

I still think NK/Enchant is probably scum. There are a few other minor suspicions that I'm sitting on. I'm hoping to give this game a deeper look today. I have more motivation than I did yesterday

[Black]

I still think NK/Enchant is probably scum. There are a few other minor suspicions that I'm sitting on. I'm hoping to give this game a deeper look today. I have more motivation than I did yesterday

I don't see you voting me then

I unvoted when someone put NK to e-1

I guess it's safe to go back yeah? I might do that after I look over the game, or I might find something new to play with

[Black]

If you vote me i will ATE hard and you all will feel bad.

Don't fucking test me.

Let's fucking hear it then

VOTE: Enchant

[Black]

Fuck. Now I feel bad

UNVOTE:

You're not useless Enchant I'm sry

[Black]

things uttered in the year 2300

"no offense, but i don't think i'll ever take a dolphin at their word again"

[Black]

VOTE: Black

Can we try this if you guys like Mala. Idk why any of you do tbh its kinda frustrating

Don't make me counterwagon you

[Black]

Invisibility is probably town. There's solving here and it feels genuine

[Black]

VOTE: Black

Can we try this if you guys like Mala. Idk why any of you do tbh its kinda frustrating

what is your current interpretation of the discussion you had last yesterday with Black? Also has anything she's done today changed your opinion on her? (other you viewing her as focusing on Patch too much which you've already said)

Why do you keep asking people what they think of me? You did it with patches and now Venmar

[Black]

VOTE: Black

Can we try this if you guys like Mala. Idk why any of you do tbh its kinda frustrating

what is your current interpretation of the discussion you had last yesterday with Black? Also has anything she's done today changed your opinion on her? (other you viewing her as focusing on Patch too much which you've already said)

Why do you keep asking people what they think of me? You did it with patches and now Venmar

Patch cuz they seemed to have a weirdly unopinionated read while also talking about you like they had opinions so I wanted to see if anything changed. Venmar cuz there seemed to be some degree of conciliation at the end of last night and I wanted to track if anything today changed that

Yeah but like, what do you gain out of asking them this? Are you trying to sort them by having them elaborate on how they feel about me?

Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I can see wolf motivations for wanting to keep close track of who scumreads who. What are the town motivations?

[Black]

what is the scum motivation for keeping a close eye of reads on you specifically Black

Scum want to keep tabs on this to know who they should take to the endgame. But I do vibe with your explanation that you're trying to solve by noticing inconsistencies. I think asking them what they think about me is probably the most shallow way to do this but it's viable

[Black]

I want to ISO like 1-2 people today. Any suggestions?

[Black]

Wait why is Mala town for you all of the sudden? You had her as a "blind spot" for you not even 2 pages before this post, here:

Vibes

[Black]

Where was patch combative with you?

Idk, was going off of memory but Patch was mostly disagreeing with me last day. I'd say off of vibes, I don't think Patch and I were really on the same page, though I did manage to convince them a bit to look at your posts a bit more critically. Tbh while I was collecting the below posts, maybe it's a bit off in how Patch has developed their reads at times, but it's not enough to overwrite my current read of them.

I'd say these posts are examples of what I mean:

Spoiler: Posts

maybe this is a hot take but ill share it anyways
i feel like while i mindmeld with a lot of black's ISO, it is a little bare-boned
i also feel like venmar is just OMGUSing and i have no idea if it comes from town or scum

also like wdym by "what happened to 332"??? i can agree with black without thinking she's locktown

venmar, why do you dislike black's post? i thought it was a good catchup and it provided some fresh takes
like are you gonna engage with it or what? are you just saying you're more sure about black cause you wanna OMGUS?
i'm not opposed to a venmar wagon, but there's a lot of people on him right now. i'd rather use my vote somewhere else.

speaking of votes... can someone explain why they're voting umlaut? they've just kind of been unremarkable this game

Wait so Black scumreading cause im reading this game off of mainly vibes and gut but then you doing this:

bri (bad vibes to me)

wait have you explained this or does it start and end with vibes

starts and ends with vibes

Is supposed to make sense?

BIG THINKING EMOJI

Also can you answer my fucking question instead of deflecting.

Black's #256 bothered me because a chunk of the wall is irrelevant comments ("Hi patch", "Cant believe we won death note", etc), a lot of it is just empty commentary to me ("not following these reads by Umlaut", "this feels a little fence-sitty from bris", etc) that feels like Black trying to find a reason to be productive and useful as !scum, like trying to fill a quota, rather than being a townie trying to focus on something and scumhunting, and a lot of the reads are just pretty non-committal and fencesitty in of themselves (see the comments to 153, 233, 120, etc) despite her criticizing others for the same.

Her reasons for voting me are then also pretty poor since idk how she spends much of the post throwing shade at other players, some more than me like Umlaut, and then decided to single me out because I accidentally wrote down Greeting twice in my reads post and because I jokingly told people to sheep me with no context on Umlaut. Former reason is just bogus and the latter feels like manufactured outrage. It definitely feels like Black is really reaching and making a mountain out of a molehill by focusing on stuff like that and taking advantage of the fact that I've decided to play passive and have provided no context for me vibe reads which is a really easy playstyle to just blindly attack as scum with not much effort.

Her doubling down after I simply said I had more bad vibes from her is also not great imo, saying I am playing "the typical scum hanging out in the background role" just kind of genuinely means nothing imo and is something that only feels true to the person saying it, there's not much in what I've done that is different from other low-effort posters in the game so this comment is just confirmation bias.

wouldn’t you say confirmation bias is more likely to come from town than scum?

...also if black is scum i’m gonna be honest i don’t think she’s this bad at it and also i find you’re claiming black did stuff she didn’t actually do? maybe i’m mistaken, it’s pretty late where i am, but i thought her catch-up post wasn’t that bad

I read this. I never really was that convinced in a patch/Venmar team tbh. I just thought it was weird how it seemed like patch was sheeping you most of the game

[Black]

Venmar, do you TR patch?

[Black]

Did you not read 661, the post I referenced and above the one you quoted?

Where in 661 do you say how you're reading patch? Do you TR them or not?

[Black]

This is the only meaningful post Mala made between you calling her a blind spot and you calling her town:

Why are you only looking at posts between me saying she's been in my blind spot and now? There were some posts she made before 637 that contributed to the vibes

[Black]

Did you not read 661, the post I referenced and above the one you quoted?

Where in 661 do you say how you're reading patch? Do you TR them or not?

Sorry I meant #660 but it's still above the post you quoted (661)

That's the only reason you townread patch?? Because they're helping you wagon people?

[Black]

Based

[Black]

Venmar, who would you like me to ISO and analyze a little deeper?

[Black]

Mala's will probably be short so I can do both

[Black]

Give me some time, I will have those out by tonight

[Black]

~Mala~

The first thing I'll say about Mala before I even look at her ISO is that she is pretty hard for me to read. I've played a few games with her and I really like playing with her, to the point where if I see her signed up for a game I'll probably sign up just for her. Mala was

town

in Death Note and Newbie 2116 and she was

scum

in Newbie 2117. I don't expect anyone to read these games but if you take a look at them you'll notice she shows similar behaviors as both alignments. She lurks, uses AtE, has inconsistencies and surface level content, all as both alignments. Mala this is not a shade on you in any way, this is just your playstyle and it makes you really hard to read, so it definitely works for you

The first thing I notice when I open mala's ISO is that she has 39 posts in a 781 post game. This is not ideal, but also not really alignment indicative. Mala seems like a busy person and I don't think her post level can be used against her

Mala's first post is 46 - nothing really to note here. Mostly jokes and responses to stuff from page 1

Mala's second post is 47 which is just an addition to her first post, this time she places an RVS vote on Venmar

Mala votes for herself in her third post (52) in response to Umlaut voting for her on page 1. That's a joke, but the rest of this post is actually a good post. She asks me why I didn't like patch's VT claim. It seems like she's trying to sort me with this question, or at least figure out where my head is at. Then she pushes back against Invisibility's vote for me (29). Here mala accuses Invisibility of making a mountain out of a molehill in regards to me/patch. I kinda vibe with this. Could be a pocketing attempt here by mala but I think there's merit to her point about Invisibility. The vote against me 29 posts into the game seemed serious and somewhat of a reach. Mala continues on in this post and it seems like she's having thoughts about Invisibilty's alignment in relation to her actions re: the olive branch comment.

I'm still on post #52 here. Damn mala why did you have to squeeze so much content into this one post? I want to point this next thing out in a quote because I don't get it at all...

im gonna cry i didnt mean to claim

The only thing we know is there's a vig (and a VT since it's a normal), there could be whatever other roles.

Ok thank you for clarifying this

Knowing this, patch's VT claim feels a lot worse

how

Feels weird, but I can’t exactly explain why.
It’s like a tone maybe. “I didn’t mean to claim”, but it’s like you knew you were claiming. Unless you aren’t “true” claiming.

Time shall tell.

In this section, mala is explaining to patch how their VT claim feels bad. But earlier in post #53 mala asks me "Why?" when I said patch's VT claim felt bad. Mala, I don't understand this? It feels like you didn't understand why I didn't like the VT claim and then you went and explained to patch why it felt weird

#52 continues on and Mala agrees with patch that I feel townie, then agrees with bris that Invisibility feels odd. Overall #52 is a really good post from mala and it feels like she's putting genuine thought into the game early on

Mala's next post is 55 - a nothing post where mala says she's working rn

In 63 mala continues to give pushback on Invisibility, here she's doing it by offering a meta read of me and brings up Death Note where we crushed it together <3
As fond as I am of winning that game with her, I still have to consider that mala is trying to pocket me here. It's possible but I would be more inclined to believe it if I didn't agree with what she was putting down re: Invisibility

Mala's 69 is a reconfirmation of her #63 - she sees me say this type of stuff as town

100 is a pagetop but we get back to notable stuff in 155. Here mala responds to patch about why she is scumreading Invisibility. Mala says tone and also admits that she's defending me from "nonsense". I'll agree here. I don't really think scum!mala includes this bit about defending me, it kinda points out that she could be buddying me if that's what she's doing. Not sure though

Mala's next post is 157 and there's a few things here. It starts by her laughing off a scumread from NK on her. I wanna say scum!mala gets mad and defensive here over the NK read instead of laughing it off. She continues on in this post by linking 4 of her recent games at the request of patches. I like how she has no hesitation doing this. No questions, just boom. Here are my previous games. Mala then gives a sorting thought on NK that feels real, and then offers an explanation as to why she might be playing differently this game than her last (she's more engaged). I don't really feel like mala is playing super differently here than normal so I'm not even sure what this meta read from bris is about

In 158 mala argues that a massclaim is an awful idea D1. I agree. Mala then asks gerain if he's going to troll this whole game or if he's going to get serious. I like this type of nudge to get content from gerain

Mala unvotes Invisibility in 163 and cites that she's getting a townlean on her. I don't really like how mala doesn't give any more details on this

In 252 mala says she doesn't understand the Umlaut votes. Fair, but I also don't see her trying to understand it either. She says it's too early to give an opinion on Greeting. Also fair - Greeting only had like 4 posts at this time

Mala's next post is 253 where she tells T3 she's mad at him for putting her so far down his list. Being concerned about a scumread isn't alignment indicative. I do this as town all the time

Mala calls herself "weird and vague" in 313. I would also like to add cute to the descriptions of mala

Mala gives a townread of Venmar in 430 - nothing to note really but I do like that mala is giving reads unprompted

I think 497 and 498 have been talked about a little already. This is where mala joins the Umlaut wagon and puts him at e-1. There is no clear progression here from mala since her "not understanding the votes on Umlaut" in 252 above. This vote seems more like a declaration of town!Venmar and wanting to join Venmar's counterwagon which just so happened to be Umlaut. This seems like a weird move for scum!mala to make unless she was paired with Venmar. I think she could have just scumread Venmar here and tried to ride out that mislim if she were scum. Why start to TR Venmar unprompted here? I would think scum!mala would want to keep Venmar in her lim pool. So yeah, it is weird that mala went from not understanding the Umlaut votes to putting him at e-1, but I don't really see what she has to gain from it unless she's scum with Venmar

In 588 mala asks Venmar why he is betraying her. Ok. I think I actually answered my question from like 2 seconds ago lol. I think scum!mala could have been trying to pocket Venmar by TRing him, and when Venmar decided to vote for her she took it personally that the pocket attempt didn't work. I'm not sure that's the world we live in but it is a possible reality

629 - Mala is trying to analyze why T3 got killed and uses this form a scumread on Venmar, and then votes for him in 630. Ngl, this feels a little omgus to me. The progression on Venmar seems a little forced here compared to earlier in the game when her reads and progressions felt more natural

Mala explains her Venmar read further in 631. Venmar's flip feels odd after he townread her most of D1. I just took a quick look at Venmar's ISO because I wanted to get a feel for this. Venmar does TR mala for most of D1, citing vibes. He flips on mala in 573 and elaborates further in 582. What I find weird about Venmar's #582 is that he says he has re-evaluated his read on mala, but he can't remember her doing anything. Wouldn't a legitimate re-evaluation consist of you looking through some of her posts to see what she's been up to? It feels inauthentic to say you don't think mala was doing anything and then not go back to her ISO to confirm/deny that. I think she did plenty of stuff D1 to be townread (as shown above), so the flop here does feel a little off

In 632 Mala gives insight on gera and offers a meta read into how scum!gera tends to act. No issues with this really. It seems like she's trying to solve, but could also be seen as her keeping the PoE open if she's scum. I'm more inclined to believe the former atm

In 636 Mala says she wouldn't kill someone that was scumreading her. Can anyone confirm/deny this? Mala didn't do this when she was scum in our Newbie game together. She killed someone that TR her N1 and a replacement slot N2. I'm going to assume she's being somewhat honest about this but I don't think it means she wouldn't kill a scumread here. It just makes it less likely

In 645 Mala asks patch why they are voting for her if she is so high up in their list. Valid question

Mala jokes about me/patch being the scumteam in 691. This feels like a genuine thought but I could be wrong.

705 - Mala mentions she doesn't get scum vibes from Enchant yet. I don't think we can read much into this since Enchant just replaced in

711 - Mala calls for a flashwagon on Venmar

~~~

And that's it. That's all of mala's post. This definitely took a lot longer than I thought it would. For some reason I thought most of mala's posts were fluff and stuff but there's actual content here when you look through it. And it seems to be coming out at mala's usual pace. Like I said in the beginning...mala is hard as fuck to read. I can see a lot of these actions in a scum light but there are too many townie things here to convince me she's acting maliciously. I think we can let mala do her thang. She's likely town here

[Black]

I want to do Greeting today too but that took more out of me than I thought it would. I'll be around to post but I'm not doing another iso dive for at least several hours

[Black]

I don't remember playing with Invisibility before, I don't remember thr picture.

I checked their profile and it says they are 18. Is this hyperactive posting normal for them? I would say it gives me weird vibes, but vibes are not something anyone should be using to find scum. That should just be down to any investigators.

Can you explain what weird vibes you get from hyper posting?

Been out all day, out all day tomorrow watching sport.
I don't like thr Unlaut wagon. Might be because they think I'm town, but I ain't voting there.

I'd rather do this VOTE: invisibility

Also, could you elaborate on why you didn't like the Umlaut wagon here? Your reason is that he townreads you, I'm just curious about that

[Black]

I was proved right about Umlaut turning out to be green btw

Well yeah, but if you're scum then that doesn't really mean anything does it?

Were there any other reasons why you townread Umlaut besides his reaction to his own wagon?

[Black]

Can you explain what weird vibes you get from hyper posting?

Also you missed this gerain :3

[Black]

I'll explore this

VOTE: patchwork

[Black]

VOTE: patchwork

I still like greeting but patchwork is worth a wagon as well. In addition to my feelings earlier I’m also not happy about the votes onto existing wagons with no real justification. Promised a case on umlaut but that never came, hopped onto NK maybe to deflect from them, and then onto greeting on the back of my vote.

I'm not sure I like this vote when I look at bris's ISO. There's very minimal content and opinions here, but we do see lots of hopping on different wagons. I'm not seeing anything from this slot that convinces me he's town

[Black]

Ngl I think there was one scum on the umulat wagon and probably one scum off the wagon.

I’d be curious to see if that whole wagon on venmar was town driven bc I don’t really think so :/

Could be bris/patch but I probably need to take a deeper look at these two before putting too much stock in that

[Black]

I have no interest in voting Patch, thanks. I won't be voting anyone not named Mala or Black today

Good luck!

[Black]

But it's not like anyone cares, so i just sheep mala for the end. Why not.

The wagon has plenty of room for you on it

[Black]

Tf is it with this game and personal insults?

Huh?

[Black]

Oh I see. Yeah, this game has been pretty tame compared to some of the fights I've seen/been apart of

[Black]

Today is going to end in another Green mis-vote, we should all just accept that now and move on with our lives. We've got nothing going on and are not going to go anywhere successful either

I don't really like this defeatism

[Black]

I'm leaning town in bris after some of his posts and our short interaction yesterday

I'm getting a little wary of Invisibility. I think some of her posts feel comfortable and jolly and then when someone has an issue with her she gets a little snappy and defensive

I still want to do an ISO dive of Greeting, I think I can do that today. I'd be ok voting here but that could change after the iso

[Black]

Just fucking vote me already

???

[Black]

Here is where I stand with my reads as of right now:

Greeting

patchwork
Venmar

Invisibility
Malakittens

geraintm

Black

Enchant
bristep123

Can you explain your Invisibility read? What makes her less townie than patch and Venmar?

[Black]

Gera should vote me if he thinks I'm scummy. Dude is sitting here not voting anyone nor contributing while shading and being defeatist. Like be useful, like voting me or something

Yeah I agree here

[Black]

I don't like it either. But it is realistic

I disagree. Is it likely we lim green today? Yeah. Should we just accept that we're gonna lim green today and give up? Fuck no

You say "nothing is going on" and "we're not going anywhere successful"...maybe you should do something then? Instead of just accepting defeat and sitting there waiting for the day to end, put some effort into the game

[Black]

Gera should vote me if he thinks I'm scummy. Dude is sitting here not voting anyone nor contributing while shading and being defeatist. Like be useful, like voting me or something

I've not got any strong reason to vote anyone today, joining a wagon for zero good reason just for thr sake of it to me is bad.

Instead of "woe is me", why don't you take some time looking at some of your scumreads and casing them? Who do you even scumread atm?

[Black]

I'm sad I spent all that time making my mala post and no one even acknowledged it's existence

[Black]

Also idk why you still townread me when even in the Mala ISO you threw strays at me like the above Mala theory and for my weird pivot on my Mala read, etc.

Do you think those strays were enough to scumread you? I don't

[Black]

I've had enough paranoid thoughts about Patch and Invis as well to basically have no strong townreads anymore and I think you're all scum. Game is going to break me.

Do you wanna shake the Invisibility tree together and see what falls out?

[Black]

Gera is very likely town. Like people are saying he's useless (including Gera himself lolz) but I think his posts show genuine gamesolving. I also like 863 since the argument used against Venmar is similar to Gera's argument against me which shows a consistent thought process and way of viewing things and stuff. The defeatism is a little BORING but I think it comes from town here. Okay thinking about it I guess it could have scum intent cuz like we might be in a fertile ground for apathy what with everyone being like "bleh I can't read nobody " but nah that's not really that likely cuz I think for scum that's too high risk without a worthwhile reward unless you single-handedly kill the towns morale lol

I think gera is probably town too. What are your thoughts on Greeting?

[Black]

Sure

[Black]

also yeah i kinda lost interest in this game lol

I don't think patch loses interest in this game if they are scum

[Black]

VOTE: Greeting

[Black]

also yeah i kinda lost interest in this game lol

I don't think patch loses interest in this game if they are scum

how come?

I would never lose interest in a game if I'm scum. VT? Yeah maybe, but not a red role

[Black]

If I had to take a wild guess rn I would say there are two scum in {Greeting; Invisibility; Enchant}

[Black]

also yeah i kinda lost interest in this game lol

I don't think patch loses interest in this game if they are scum

how come?

I would never lose interest in a game if I'm scum. VT? Yeah maybe, but not a red role

you're not everyone and also I mean like they could just as easily have said that as an excuse to not taking clear stances lol. Ok well the latter case isn't as likely but like other people have different temperaments and preferences and suchlike. Pretty sure I've lost interest in a scum role before lol

That's why I said "I don't think" they would lose interest if they were scum, not that I'm sure they wouldn't. Patch accidentally claimed VT at the beginning of the game. In my head it makes a lot of sense for a VT to lose interest in the game

[Black]

but like my point is that I don't think it's indicative of much of anything

I disagree. We have to find every little thing we can to try and sort people. To me this is a decent indicator that patch's VT claim was genuine

[Black]

see, this is why i think we are all out of ideas. people are just trying to drum up support to wagon someone and see what happens. either we get a VT claim and they will get eliminated, or expose a town role which is bad.

We're not out of ideas, you just aren't really using your brainpower here. I asked Venmar that question for many reasons. I wanted to read his reaction to that, I wanted to read Invis's reaction to that (which btw there was none, which makes me think Invis purposely avoided talking about it because there is pressure building there), I wanted to read what other people thought of it. I didn't just suggest it because I'm out of ideas and I wanted to just see what would happen

There are lots of things we can do today and I'm baffled that you think we have nothing to do. Ask questions. Try to find scum pairs. DO SOMETHING

[Black]

I wanted to read Invis's reaction to that (which btw there was none, which makes me think Invis purposely avoided talking about it because there is pressure building there)

well I considered making a joke about shaking a squirrel out of a tree if it's any consolation

I think it would have been townie if you had posted that joke. Not posting it seems kinda scummy, like you were worried about the optics or something?

[Black]

That's fair. I just think if you are town here then you should be more interested in why I scumread you

[Black]

I think we should explode Greeting

I think we should explode Mala or Black

Explore it then. Make your case. Don't make others do it for you

[Black]

VOTE: Enchant

THIS IS A PROTEST VOTE

VOTE: Enchant

NK15 was probably just scum right?

[Black]

Black weren’t you accusing me of wagon hopping earlier?

Yes, but I think you're probably town

[Black]

I don't necessarily think jumping between wagons is inherently scummy. When this behavior is coupled with minimal content and a lack of solving then yeah, it kinda stinks. I think I was wrong about your wagon hopping anyway fwiw, I agree with the post where you pointed this out

[Black]

I WANT TO SHAKE THIS TREE

A wild Umbreon appeared!

[Black]

- I've scumread Black pretty consistently this day because I feel like she's been around but hasn't actually contributed or engaged in actual concrete scumhunting herself, she just seems "present" and asking people questions or hopping wagons without doing much. STINKY

I'm baffled by this btw. There's no shot you have an issue with my contributions when every single player here is barely doing anything. And no concrete solving? Your next question describes how I solve to a tee...I'm asking questions and pressuring with votes. If you don't like it, sorry bud

[Black]

EBWOP: next "sentence" not question

[Black]

things uttered in the year 2300

"woahhhh they're making straight marriage legal again"

You are killing me with these

[Black]

I just feel like you're "around" and asking people the odd question but not doing any actual casing or solving yourself, like you keep asking people to do stuff and to make cases but I just don't feel like you're doing that either? Like I get you're asking questions but I don't think you're actually moving the game state forward or using the answers you get to do much solving.

That's just how I feel :shrug:

PEdit: @Black

I mean you could make this argument for almost everyone here. Not many people are doing "concrete solving" or whatever you want to call it. Point me to questions I've asked that you don't think have any solving intentions behind them. I'll be happy to explain my thought process

[Black]

Daykill: Venmar

[Black]

If you flip town I'm sorry

[Black]

Am I real?

[Black]

Daykill: Venmar

i will love you big time if this is real

Well now I wish it was -_-

[Black]

idk say that you scumread them but in a funny English accent

I mean what do you want me to do. I could see myself compromising on Enchant if push came to shove but I just don't understand why everyone is so intent on townreading the two of them. I feel like I need one of them to explode to advance my own personal reads/solving and nobody seems interested in engaging with me about it.

This seems like an awful excuse to just stop solving. You should be trying to solve based on a scenario where one or both of us are town, but instead you are just using our presence as a reason to sit around and do nothing

[Black]

Do you still think im town?

Unfortunately, yeah. It would be cool if I didn't. I would love to yeet you just for how annoying you've been regarding pushing me

I do want to talk about Newbie 2119 now that its over. You feel completely different in this game compared to that one. In 2119 it really felt like you were putting way more thought into the game and it was almost like your townie-ness was a shining beacon that was hard to miss. I can tell you're thinking about this game too but it feels like you're much less into it or something. And you definitely don't feel as townie. Any clue why that is?

[Black]

Congrats patch and mala! Well played

I can't believe I towncased mala lol. I feel dumb

Ty Sky for modding!