Mini Normal 2314 - The Mafia Have a Cop [END]

[Flavor Leaf]

Who the hell is this?!?!?!?!?!!?

Gamma Emerald
Doctor Drew
Xegarus
Nono
The Bulge
Roden

UnaBombaH

The Bulge
Roden

UnaBombaH

UnaBombaH

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh yeah, Una distracted me from my initial first post


I claim Miller

[Flavor Leaf]

I thought you were never claiming Miller again

viewtopic.php?p=13869692#p13869692

[Flavor Leaf]

That game was painful

[Flavor Leaf]

Over the heads, Roden

[Flavor Leaf]

Mafia could have a Traitor this game to warrant the Cop. I can’t really think of any other reason the Cop knowledge would be there.

[Flavor Leaf]

I dont think what jjh said is scummy but tbh i dont even understand it

Just to pop over to the side for a second since I'm very much going to be focusing on Flavor Leaf for a little bit, the logic is essentially that in a game where it is known that the mafia have a cop, it is likely that the mafia will use that cop to try and find a traitor.
The existence of a miller in a setup with a mafia cop could result in some very very funny shenanigans where the mafia believe they have found a traitor when they have in fact found a miller

Sounds like you need to check that link i posted

[Flavor Leaf]

That being said, like I posited earlier- why claim miller if the only theory you can come up with is a traitor? Do you not consider yourself a priority target for a scum cop to check?

I dont think what jjh said is scummy but tbh i dont even understand it

Just to pop over to the side for a second since I'm very much going to be focusing on Flavor Leaf for a little bit, the logic is essentially that in a game where it is known that the mafia have a cop, it is likely that the mafia will use that cop to try and find a traitor.
The existence of a miller in a setup with a mafia cop could result in some very very funny shenanigans where the mafia believe they have found a traitor when they have in fact found a miller

I am actually in agreement with JJh here.

Flavor, did you think about there being a traitor in this game before you claimed miller?

Nope.

I put like 3% thought into the Miller claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

That being said, like I posited earlier- why claim miller if the only theory you can come up with is a traitor? Do you not consider yourself a priority target for a scum cop to check?

I dont think what jjh said is scummy but tbh i dont even understand it

Just to pop over to the side for a second since I'm very much going to be focusing on Flavor Leaf for a little bit, the logic is essentially that in a game where it is known that the mafia have a cop, it is likely that the mafia will use that cop to try and find a traitor.
The existence of a miller in a setup with a mafia cop could result in some very very funny shenanigans where the mafia believe they have found a traitor when they have in fact found a miller

I am actually in agreement with JJh here.

Flavor, did you think about there being a traitor in this game before you claimed miller?

Nope.

I put like 3% thought into the Miller claim.

You are a better player than me, but after reading the other posts on why there is a miller in the game I think you should have known better than to make that claim as town.

I think you think I care much about mech.

Since it’s going over people’s heads, and they ain’t clicking the link, I’ll explain.

I joke claimed Miller based on a recent game, with players in this game and our mod, I claimed Miller first post.

This somehow got pushed as being a scummy thing to do, when I’ve been under the impression that’s what you’re supposed to do as Miller.

That said, I stated I would never true claim Miller as Miller ever again.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, the logic y’all trying to push is a town misplay but it’s being shifted like a scummy thing.

What benefit does a scum member have to claim Miller in the scenario y’all poking?

If they are looking for a Traitor, then scum claiming Miller makes no sense as group scum or Traitor scum.

If Traitor scum claims Miller, scum isn’t going to target them, and might end up thinking they’re actually Miller.

[Flavor Leaf]

I dont think what jjh said is scummy but tbh i dont even understand it

Just to pop over to the side for a second since I'm very much going to be focusing on Flavor Leaf for a little bit, the logic is essentially that in a game where it is known that the mafia have a cop, it is likely that the mafia will use that cop to try and find a traitor.
The existence of a miller in a setup with a mafia cop could result in some very very funny shenanigans where the mafia believe they have found a traitor when they have in fact found a miller

Sounds like you need to check that link i posted

If I acknowledge that then we don't get to ride this train out of RVS

PEdit: Okay, you've made the train leave

It’s the Flavor Special.

Somehow, I don’t ever vote in RVS, and I always end up being a crux that pivots the game

[Flavor Leaf]

Suspicious of you to think it’s borked

[Flavor Leaf]

Drew looked the worst to me out of the bunch, but that could mean they’re town sense i tend to come after them early when they are.

Yeah, I could have waited a little bit.

[Flavor Leaf]

Firstly it doesnt look like a joke claim.

sure, but doesnt change the fact there's literal proof that it was rendering your entire rest of the post moot.

[Flavor Leaf]

push all the scummy vibes ya want on it, you aint gonna win that back and forth bud

[Flavor Leaf]

it also wasn't supposed to be super obvious, i was happy to see who was gonna react to it.

And if you read JJH's posts, they were doing that too, and they were right, i should have kept it going longer.

[Flavor Leaf]

the answer to that question was simple:

i'm not a miller here, which is clear from the beginning, even if you have to say only in hindsight, which is fine. it's early game, it was a great source to get people to react on it from.

answering that question then, which I did later just not directly to you, would have just ended it there.

[Flavor Leaf]

...

VOTE: Gamma

E-1

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm either saving you Gamma, or sending you to an early doom.

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Gamma
VOTE: Xegarus

I got like 3 reasons for this.

I wanna find out if they're scum trying to keep me on the table, or if they're just townie with a big ol stick.
I wanna move off Gamma.
I want to relieve pressure off Gamma and pushing back at Xeg likely moves their vote onto me.

[Flavor Leaf]

for what it's worth, i think xegaru just town with the stick

[Flavor Leaf]

ah damn, are Marci and Gamma scum together? Could just be Marci white knight.

gonna avoid that thought for now because it's just paranoia, but i got big pings from that marci. looks like a performance, but i can see them posting like that as town.

And im kinda okay letting others solve for Marci.

[Flavor Leaf]

no i didnt catch, i specifically stated i wanted to avoid that thought

[Flavor Leaf]

but i need it out there in the case i end up in elo with you for my own reminder

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao fine. I thought they were the best one on Gamma really, and I did like how they handled the miller claim

i can usually sus Hu Tao out if they're scum, so I'm happy to just town read them until something big pings me

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao
jjh027
Geraintm

Unabombah (free seat for them here for now)
Roden
Gamma Emerald

The Bulge
Nono
JacksonVirgo

Neutral but slight under the nulls^

Doctor Drew
Marcistar

Xegarus

Town

-

Lean Town

-

Light Town

-

Neutral

-

Light Scum

-

Lean Scum

-

Scum

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao
jjh027
Geraintm

Unabombah (free seat for them here for now)
Roden
Gamma Emerald

The Bulge
Nono
JacksonVirgo

Neutral but slight under the nulls^

Doctor Drew
Marcistar

Xegarus

Town

-

Lean Town

-

Light Town

-

Neutral

-

Light Scum

-

Lean Scum

-

Scum

I wanna hear more about Drew here.

Don’t really have much on Drew, that’s why they’re neutral/null.

I remember not liking one thing earlier, but JJH said they thought it was townie, so I just defaulted with Drew. I don’t plan to push Drew to a fade really Day 1 bar something major.

Marcistar’s a bit different than that read, despite same spot, i just didn’t know how i feel about some of the stuff.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gerait’s been genuine.

Roden could be scum. I liked the way we interacted earlier, and they picked up on what I was doing first. They were in the game, early at least, so it makes sense, but i liked it. Enough this early at least.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, it’s Drew and Jackson

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, it’s Drew and Jackson

Wtf stop stealing my op reads these are an original one of a kind masterpiece

I’m supporting your conclusion

[Flavor Leaf]

Ice cold

Hitthem wit dat sour lemonade

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like i misfaded Marcistar before.

[Flavor Leaf]

But can’t quite put a leaf on it

[Flavor Leaf]

I dislike the fact that FL is "giving me a free seat" for now, and dislike it even more because they openly state that as their reasoning for my placement.

Spicy.

Imma give you a free seat even harder so I can spend all of a night phase trying to make sure I absolutely hit the exact right Mafia member and surprise Vig you correctly after town reading you after anyways

[Flavor Leaf]

All that previous Miller-talk tickled something in my brain, and now I suddenly remembered one of my old games.
One that I simultaneously loved and hated.
I was Town Universal Backup there, and despite my best efforts against it, town lynched our claimed Miller D1.
Making me a Backup Miller starting D2.

I managed to identify and call out the entire scumteam based on simple analytics on interactions and claims, but didn't manage to get one of them lynched.
If only I could remember who was scum that game...@FL - any memories of this?

Also, we don’t say the L word here anymore. Most say eliminated, or lim.

Roughly. I don’t remember the exact game.

Great time for mafia back then for sure.

Loved playing with that group of players we had.

[Flavor Leaf]

ah damn, are Marci and Gamma scum together? Could just be Marci white knight.

gonna avoid that thought for now because it's just paranoia, but i got big pings from that marci. looks like a performance, but i can see them posting like that as town.

And im kinda okay letting others solve for Marci.

I've gotten the same pings from Marci but I think it's isolated from Gamma, I don't see a pairing per se

I lean town on Gamma anyways.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m pro self meta as a tactic.

[Flavor Leaf]

You left out the part where you say it with charisma, and people 2 day phases later forget you’re the one that said it

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m pro self meta as a tactic.

You are also pro "let's make a wacky claim as either alignment and then just enjoy the shitstorm", right?

I'm off to bed, but looking forward to drinking my monday morning coffee with a side of juicy and spicy Mafiascum..

It causes discussion that’s readable

I’m a smooth enough talker to protect myself from it, though, a lot of people would end up dying

[Flavor Leaf]

You left out the part where you say it with charisma, and people 2 day phases later forget you’re the one that said it

Remember where I said it's used to cherry pick and manipulate. That falls into that bin

Exactly.

Not useless

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m mostly just trolling

[Flavor Leaf]

Shoop

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Alisae

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, they are

[Flavor Leaf]

whys there a focus on self meta its useless to argue abt it

Everything is useful

[Flavor Leaf]

This is TvT.

[Flavor Leaf]

Una’s vote on The Bulge is an obv joke vote

[Flavor Leaf]

Full stop

[Flavor Leaf]

287 and 292 makes sense from thinking it’s a joke and going onto confirming it, and I like Roden’s responses to Hu Tao

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao, Jjh, Roden, Una are townie for for me.

Gamma is lean, Geraint is lean. I feel good with Geraint, but really too early for me to fully trust that

[Flavor Leaf]

Una’s vote on The Bulge is an obv joke vote

Yeah, which is why the reply was bad from roden. Like even if he thought it was serious, it was worded badly.

This is fair.

I don’t think it makes Roden scum, though, but I see the case.

I don’t think it makes sense for Roden to do it like that as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao, Jjh, Roden, Una are townie for for me.

Gamma is lean, Geraint is lean. I feel good with Geraint, but really too early for me to fully trust that

Una is fluff posting, not scummy per se.....but how do you town read it? Are you still biased for your affection of them?(which I can understand).

I need something real from them.

I don’t think there’s that much fluff. Their posts make sense to me, and they gave their insight on a lot of different slots.

It might look fluffy because it’s early game, but for where we are at in the game, I liked the reads they gave.

And the energy they have just doesn’t feel like they’re trying to manipulate anything, it just feels like they’re here, a little unsure of how to get their feet back in the game, but still trying, and they’re doggy paddling to try to stay afloat.

They don’t need water wings, though

[Flavor Leaf]

Like I’m seeing them doggie paddle all the way past the deep end and if they were scum, i don’t think the doggie paddle would be genuine

[Flavor Leaf]

No, I am.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m just not afraid to get some green blood

[Flavor Leaf]

Drew’s just got like 65% scum equity here

[Flavor Leaf]

If you saying they 95% scum that’s like 50% higher than the level of confidence i feel it should be at based on it being Day 1

Looks like you’re trying to force people to take sides on it

[Flavor Leaf]

Your main case was that they were fluffy, and I just didn’t agree that they were. I think they have a lot of insight based on 20 pages. Was it the most in depth analysis? No, but it was so early in the game. THAT would have been scummy if it was.

[Flavor Leaf]

Other than that, it doesn’t really look like you have anything on it, and you’re just choosing to scum read there?

Like, it’s one thing to disagree on the fluff, but the fluff doesn’t mean scum, and i really don’t think that should be enough for you to say they’re 95% scum

[Flavor Leaf]

My reasons are sound. I’m Acute as heck.

It’s sure for a Day 1 town read, Una said it pretty clearly, and frankly, I feel that should make a lot of sense to you here.

Do I sometimes town core with scum? Yeah, but that’s fine. Day 3 and onwards when flips happen, i generally have a good sense of it happening.

Like in Demon Slayer, Alisae and FB town cored with me, and I started to see them as scum, but I got night killed accidentally.

Good stuff to read later, and I just say what comes to my mind hoping that i can make sense of it more later.

Do i town read Una right now? Yeah. Could there be a time later when I see that they’re scum and they were using this situation, yeah, it’s possible if they’re scum.

I town read them hard once, and around Day 3, the game was lost if i didn’t shoot the exact ScumPR, and I spent a whole night in a notes PT analyzing the game, and ended vigging ScumUna, who I was town reading, and they ended up being scum, so I also have faith I’d be able to read them.

The fact we naturally got grouped up like this is townie for them to me, and it feels like scum are trying to avoid letting that go further.

Why isn’t my Roden, Hu Tao or JJH town reads pinging you the same way with that logic?

[Flavor Leaf]

They also have the FL account my first loss (scum loss) when I first met them, so

[Flavor Leaf]

Gave

[Flavor Leaf]

That’s why i lean it’s a genuine a read, and that i don’t think it’s you pocketing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Now that I think about it, if Mafia had Cop+Traitor, it would 100% not make sense for a Traitor to claim Miller without additional signals.

Scum would just think the player is a Miller and wouldn’t risk investigating because they wouldn’t know for sure that Miller is their partner or not.

[Flavor Leaf]

Now that I think about it, if Mafia had Cop+Traitor, it would 100% not make sense for a Traitor to claim Miller without additional signals.

Scum would just think the player is a Miller and wouldn’t risk investigating because they wouldn’t know for sure that Miller is their partner or not.

I would have expected you to have put more thought into your claim, rather than only piecing it together now

I only put thought into claims when im scum

[Flavor Leaf]

@Jackson - if you'd humor me for a moment - if you were told that there's one scum in Drew/Hu Tao guaranteed, which would you lean on being scum based on this early game?

I think Hu Tao is actually a difficult person for me to read as I always end up TRing them (small sample size) but I would say Drew here nonetheless. Not sure why you're asking this, nor why you're asking me but there you go.

i got you. Hu Tao is town here.

I get pinged so hard at times when Hu tao is scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao pulled a heist in a recent game, and claimed a guilty on Nono who had a guilty on them before Nono claimed it, and we misfaded Nono. I even spent the day before that saying Hu Tao was obv scum, and still believed it.

They a dangerous scum player but they have a tone difference that peaks out when they're scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Jackson - if you'd humor me for a moment - if you were told that there's one scum in Drew/Hu Tao guaranteed, which would you lean on being scum based on this early game?

I think Hu Tao is actually a difficult person for me to read as I always end up TRing them (small sample size) but I would say Drew here nonetheless. Not sure why you're asking this, nor why you're asking me but there you go.

i got you. Hu Tao is town here.

I get pinged so hard at times when Hu tao is scum.

Are you scum here? This is the opposite of what you said before when you were town

The less consistent i am the more likely it is i am town to be fair

[Flavor Leaf]

@Jackson - if you'd humor me for a moment - if you were told that there's one scum in Drew/Hu Tao guaranteed, which would you lean on being scum based on this early game?

I think Hu Tao is actually a difficult person for me to read as I always end up TRing them (small sample size) but I would say Drew here nonetheless. Not sure why you're asking this, nor why you're asking me but there you go.

i got you. Hu Tao is town here.

I get pinged so hard at times when Hu tao is scum.

Are you scum here? This is the opposite of what you said before when you were town

Also, this is not true.

I feel I’ve said you pinged me when you were scum multiple times.

The only time it was different was in Blood Over Utopia, and you corrected me that game when you said I mostly town read you for your predecessor, which is true, I town read your slot there because of Roden

[Flavor Leaf]

But I also have something very specific that you do as scum, Hu Tao, and it’s happened multiple times.

Not entirely ready to divulge what that is, but if I see it, I’ll be able to case you all around.

Some things are worth keeping at the chest, and I won’t ever use that pure reason as a main reason you’d be scum.

I think you are town here, more similar to that one game where I was Miller rather than scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Xergarus is coasting scum

[Flavor Leaf]

JV I am not town reading, but that could make them town.


I think scum team is good at having townie vibes this game based on how I’m reading every slot in the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Jjh could be powerwolfing, but idk if they try to powerwolf as scum in this gamestate.

I town read them, but late game it’s worth thinking about if they’re alive.

I’m like totally comfortable just sheeping wherever they push unless it’s someone i town read, like an Una, Gamma, Hu. I might even be convinced if I think the case is good enough, still Day 1 after all.

[Flavor Leaf]

You know how absolutely bold Una would have to be here to act as cheeky as they have been as scum after returning.

I just truly can’t see it.

[Flavor Leaf]

If it means anything, Gamma Emerald, Una Bombah and I have played A LOT of games together back in the past.

We were part of the Boon Babes.

A big group of us who played a lot of games together, catching each other, and fooling each other left and right.

Just trying to show why/how I could town read Una the way I do here.

Could they be pocketing? Sure. I just don’t think they play in a very specific way to pocket me like this here.

Gamma, well you can convince me they’re scum if you want, i don’t got a big defense for them yet

[Flavor Leaf]

Bold of you to assume i give a fuck how you view my play
I play for nobody except myself.

I have an action that can confirm town myself tonight if you really want me to

Claim it

[Flavor Leaf]

Marci is scummy. Does it mean they’re not town? No, but probs does look like they get auto faded day 2 if not confirmed.

Marci purposefully plays in a fully NAI way, fade that early game

[Flavor Leaf]

Bold of you to assume i give a fuck how you view my play
I play for nobody except myself.

I have an action that can confirm town myself tonight if you really want me to

Claim it

Also FL did you really just watch along this whole time only to pop in with that and then disappear

No, i just saw the end with the claim, and popped in while walking down the streets of downtown SF.

Now I’m in a commute, and i have sit down time.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL, you have experience with geraintm, right

Any thoughts on 501-503?

I don’t think he’s that bold/aggressive as scum here.

I think it can make sense for some people to see you as leading right now, and if they don’t agree/understand what you’re pushing it, they could think you as scummy, and I think Geraint just fits right into that category.

They’re a “I hope I die so i don’t have to have reads” in final 5-7 type of player.

[Flavor Leaf]

I misfaded Marci not too long ago.

I don’t regret it.

But I can see them as annoying town here instead of annoying scum. They hide behind a NAI persona

[Flavor Leaf]

This playerlist really likes putting Jjh in the hot seat.

It’s kinda funny.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, Marcistar gets a pass with their Friendly Neighbor claim for now

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s Hu Tao Tuesday

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay I'm gonna go to bed

Dannflor, if you're not scum you're going to need to piece together the trickier parts of this game convincingly or I'm just not gonna believe you're town

Absolutely town
marcistar
JacksonVirgo
Nono
Gamma Emerald
Doctor Drew

Likely to be town
Hu Tao
UnaBombaH

Probably at least one of these is scum but they could all be town
Flavor Leaf
Roden
geraintm

Scum?
Dannflor / Xegarus
The Bulge

Can you talk to me about your town reads? Marci, Jackson, Nono, Gamma, and Drew.

I'm curious on your reasons moreso than them being there.

[Flavor Leaf]

VLA Thursday Friday

[Flavor Leaf]

Bold of you to assume i give a fuck how you view my play
I play for nobody except myself.

I have an action that can confirm town myself tonight if you really want me to

I dont think itsbuseful to fullclaim it but i can only confirm myself to 1 person tonight...

i didnt like this chain, but if Friendly Neighbor, they have to target a partner to 'confirm themselves' if scum, so it's really just not worth hitting Marci today. guess we can see what happens with it.

I can see them fake claiming here, but if enough people throughout the game confirm it, it might be alright. if any people who confirm it ever flip town, then they're fine. if they aint confirmed MID game, they get faded easily.

Plus Marci growing on me, so i dont mind them being around

[Flavor Leaf]

I know I wasn't asked, but I also think marci should've straight up fully claimed after that silly "soft" claim.
This way of handling things gives scum!marci time and potentially a chance to lab their fakeclaim over the night phase with their teammates.
This is why I've been pessimistic about them ever actually being able to confirm their claim later.
I think they're very likely just scum here, but I also realize that with such a "claim" outed, we are just not gonna lim them today.

In my mind, barring a mod-confimerd IC-like result, I'm just going to hound them all over the place D2.
So I'd rather just deal with the flip tomorrow, rather than a shady claim with a most likely unconfirmable result to chew on.

Buuuuttt..I'm already mentally preparing for the shit show that is def going to be D2

yeah thats why i said claim it even though i didnt know 100% what was going on. it just gets rid of pointless speculation when the way they talk is obviously only Friendly Neighbor esque role, so

[Flavor Leaf]

for sure

but im vanilla

[Flavor Leaf]

or am i

[Flavor Leaf]

feels like Flavor Fever more than anything else.

I'd also say it would be the scum players shifting the setup to appear the way they want it to based on the given circumstances of the setup moreso than the supernatural powers of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

im also very happy to fade Marci going forward if not confirmed, and I feel that should have been felt.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think you should really try and convince me you're town here Boonsky. Imagine the building blocks we'd be able create together for a thriving town.

whys that matter on day 1. ive given plenty, i dont really see why i should specifically go out of my way to center around convincing you that i am town

i defended you against Drew's push earlier, that's good enough for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Una saying I need to convince them theyre town while giving Dannfloor conditioning positive response after Dannfloor town read them while thinking Drew is town probs knocks Una down a peg on my readslist.

It helps Jjh also got knocked a small peg and JV is also pretty low.

I still think JJh is probably lean town, but there's definitely a good amount of worlds I can see them being scum powerwolf here, but i would still only push them really if there was a legiitmate case, which day 1, even day 2, probably never would be.

[Flavor Leaf]

UNVOTE: Danfloor

[Flavor Leaf]

The way people are playing around me is kind of hard for me to get overly strong reads, but here's roughly where I'm at. I would be surprised if scum weren't in that top group of 5 somewhere, but I don't know who's working me right now. Hu Tao I almost made green, but I can't say that for sure right now, but if i had to have a green, i think id go Hu Tao.

Hu Tao
Dannfloor
Doctor Drew
Roden
Gamma Emerald

Jjh

Unabombah
Marcistar
Geraintm

Nono
The Bulge
JacksonVirgo

Town

-

Lean Town

-

Light Town

-

Neutral

-

Light Scum

-

Lean Scum

-

Scum

[Flavor Leaf]

I could see like one scum in every grouping, JJh is wildcard and can sub for one of the groups.

[Flavor Leaf]

if i had to have a green, i think id go Hu Tao.

can you explain?

we had a good time on Hu Tao Tuesday.

Hu Tao just does more when they're scum, and maybe they're playing different specifically because I sussed them out multiple times as scum now, but I don't feel like they're in their scum game. They are more powerwolf as scum, and town they come in and out. Like Hu Tao leads as scum, and I can see the objective based gameplay in their play when they are scum. It's good objective gameplay, but I think it's an 'oh, Hu Tao is a powerwolf scum player, and I recognize these plays like the back of my hand' kinda thing, and im not getting it here.

[Flavor Leaf]

to be fair, i have not been overly paying attention to this game prior to just now, and been kinda just here posting every now and then

[Flavor Leaf]

jackson do you feel like engaging with marci about her read on you is the best use of your time

Why wouldn't it be?

1. we're not eliminating marci today

2. she's probably town

3. it's not like marci is about to lead an elimination on you

i just don't feel like sorting marci is an urgent thing that needs to happen today and i'd be more interested in hearing your thoughts on other slots

the rest is fine

[Flavor Leaf]

im not a fan of the talk of 'marci probably town' because it reinforces the idea of a 'soft clear' possibly being a 'eh, most likely clear'.

so imo, marci is either scum or not, and we find that out as the game goes on.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think it's best to say that marci is probably town for today for *reasons*

And if we are unclaimed, I will fight it.

Because this is how I won a scum game by pushing against a pair of Masons.

Dont reinforce the gamestate.

If there's a way to confirm it for 'reasons' later, just let those reasons come later.

Just feels like you're helping flag it and protect it and reinforce the narrative ahead of time.

[Flavor Leaf]

hmm, mind melding with JV a bit right now.

dunno what that means for my read

[Flavor Leaf]

meh

I was just hoping that if we all agreed marci was pretty much just town scum would be incentivized to just kill her tonight

but that's probably not happening this game with players like jjh or FL who are also probably town

i wouldnt kill marci as a flipped IC here personally

[Flavor Leaf]

Also my ADHD ass decided to just vibe instead of making coffee so Ima make it properly now

@Gamma - What you think?

[Flavor Leaf]

im trying to send you a telepathic message with that.

dont think too hard about it, its more just funny, but could have merit.

[Flavor Leaf]

if i had to have a green, i think id go Hu Tao.

can you explain?

we had a good time on Hu Tao Tuesday.

Hu Tao just does more when they're scum, and maybe they're playing different specifically because I sussed them out multiple times as scum now, but I don't feel like they're in their scum game. They are more powerwolf as scum, and town they come in and out. Like Hu Tao leads as scum, and I can see the objective based gameplay in their play when they are scum. It's good objective gameplay, but I think it's an 'oh, Hu Tao is a powerwolf scum player, and I recognize these plays like the back of my hand' kinda thing, and im not getting it here.

Guess I should have just asked I do disagree with this though as when I was scum in the game I replaced in, I was in and out.

I am omitting Blood Over Utopia when I talk about that

[Flavor Leaf]

if i had to have a green, i think id go Hu Tao.

can you explain?

we had a good time on Hu Tao Tuesday.

Hu Tao just does more when they're scum, and maybe they're playing different specifically because I sussed them out multiple times as scum now, but I don't feel like they're in their scum game. They are more powerwolf as scum, and town they come in and out. Like Hu Tao leads as scum, and I can see the objective based gameplay in their play when they are scum. It's good objective gameplay, but I think it's an 'oh, Hu Tao is a powerwolf scum player, and I recognize these plays like the back of my hand' kinda thing, and im not getting it here.

Actually going back to this. I've been posting a lot this game. Can you explain why you think I've been in and out to justify the read?

Your presence is more consistent when scum, whether or not your posting or not.

It’s not even just like physical presence, it’s mental.

I’m basing it off of that first game I played with you, i think i misfaded you, and then the game I was Miller for town, and then the scum game you countered Nono and the scum game I caught out Enchant as your partner for scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also my ADHD ass decided to just vibe instead of making coffee so Ima make it properly now

@Gamma - What you think?

im trying to send you a telepathic message with that.

dont think too hard about it, its more just funny, but could have merit.

I am very confused
I have ADHD myself so that makes it harder to pick out any meaning since I'm seeing JV talking about it and trying to puzzle out if that's the relevant connection or not

I feel like it was you who caught me in a food tell way back when, but i don’t remember.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh that's what you meant, lmfao oh no my coffee gave me away!!!

It’s weird but it’s a thing

I don’t think that’s happening here right now, though. It’s not quite the food tell. food tell is when someone disappears for a minute and comes back with it. You stayed then went

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t remember where

But i got called out hard correctly.

Idk if i got faded or got out of it, though

But tells lose momentum like that once they become more known because people as town will do it more.

Fykus caught me out in like 2017 for saying lol and haha as scum more than i did as town, so i had to integrate it into my town game so it wasn’t a scum specific thing

[Flavor Leaf]

I keep trying to tell Drew to cool it, and it would be so much easier if we had daytalk

[Flavor Leaf]

Who reads what they sign up for

[Flavor Leaf]

(I believe i commented on no day talk in sign up thread, so i do think it was in sign up for sure)

[Flavor Leaf]

Question

If i told y’all i was scum will you town read me

[Flavor Leaf]

Question

If i told y’all i was scum will you town read me

Going for the Firebringer play?

I was literally in my head about to go “ya know what feels fun, being Firebringer”

[Flavor Leaf]

i demand we redo this game

i wanted mafia pr but i only got goon

[Flavor Leaf]

this games easy with jjh i just sit back and meme while they do all the work

[Flavor Leaf]

hu tao and i scum team yall dont stand a chance srry

[Flavor Leaf]

call me flavorbrnger rest of game

[Flavor Leaf]

i think ger can be scum here and u should all vote there

[Flavor Leaf]

hu tao and i scum team yall dont stand a chance srry

Ya but you exposed Hu Tao.

Fatal mistake.

silly you thinking that would be enough to take us out

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao Tuesdays and Flavor Bringer u can join our Elite 6

[Flavor Leaf]

who else wants to be in the elite 6

[Flavor Leaf]

i am the elite 6

[Flavor Leaf]

this is hard how does the growlithe keep this up

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor keeps slipping in

[Flavor Leaf]

E6 is Tuesdays, Drewberry, Sigma Citrine, Bringer, Mousen, and Jack Jerry Han solo

[Flavor Leaf]

Jack jerry got put in the e6 so i can put their reads in a flavourable position

[Flavor Leaf]

Well believe it bustersagitarrius

[Flavor Leaf]

i am scorpio

[Flavor Leaf]

show me one time scum faked a daytalk dumb tell

[Flavor Leaf]

All right, I’m off work, and now it’s too much work not to spell everything correctly and use mostly proper grammar

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s hard to talk memey, FlavorBringer took so much effort

[Flavor Leaf]

Mousen not in lim pool

[Flavor Leaf]

viewtopic.php?t=91698

Won with a Friendly Neighbor claim, by the way, made yesterday’s talking over here really annoying cuz I knew Friendly Neighbor is a solid fake claim.

Not the first time I’ve won with it either

[Flavor Leaf]

Discrediting Una I think who said scum don’t FN claim lol

[Flavor Leaf]

And after I gave you entrance in the Elite 6, Gamma

[Flavor Leaf]

I dont like how everyones ignoring me now smh i thought i was the mc

The lolcat is never the mc, they are the overly obnoxious companion, or a small cute creature companion that warms the heart every time they show up, no in between

[Flavor Leaf]

Imma go VOTE: Bulge[/vore]

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh it’s readable

[Flavor Leaf]

The way people are playing around me is kind of hard for me to get overly strong reads, but here's roughly where I'm at. I would be surprised if scum weren't in that top group of 5 somewhere, but I don't know who's working me right now. Hu Tao I almost made green, but I can't say that for sure right now, but if i had to have a green, i think id go Hu Tao.

Hu Tao
Dannfloor
Doctor Drew
Roden
Gamma Emerald

Jjh

Unabombah
Marcistar
Geraintm

Nono
The Bulge
JacksonVirgo

Town

-

Lean Town

-

Light Town

-

Neutral

-

Light Scum

-

Lean Scum

-

Scum

[Flavor Leaf]

This list has changed tho

[Flavor Leaf]

Mental mush VLA off tomorrow hopefully

[Flavor Leaf]

I was FlavorBringer here earlier

[Flavor Leaf]

We can just make it an elite 7 and you can handle it

[Flavor Leaf]

I forget most of what happened in this game anyways, so I’ll probably do a reset

[Flavor Leaf]

next time ill get a 9

[Flavor Leaf]

Probably just hit scum and vote bulge

[Flavor Leaf]

go for it, i could use a night break

[Flavor Leaf]

I have 2nd highest post count in the game

[Flavor Leaf]

i feel like ive done more then like 3/4 playerlist, including you.

just not in the past 3 or 4 days.

[Flavor Leaf]

i feel like ive done more then like 3/4 playerlist, including you.

just not in the past 3 or 4 days.

this is coming off of an iso dive so it isnt recency bias.

youve commented on i think every slot, but its just that, its a lot of commentary, and correct me if im wrong but i feel like youre usually more of a driver seat player

only when i gotta be.

jjh took that slot so i took shotgun

[Flavor Leaf]

i prefer shotgun

[Flavor Leaf]

Yes they give wrong analysis and misrep things and get said 'clearly town'

If one of Hu Tao/Bulge ever flip scum, power fade the other.

[Flavor Leaf]

eh i like roden

[Flavor Leaf]

yall really went back to the traitor route even though people were already saying how it was less likely for me to be traitor.

[Flavor Leaf]

imma just claim. im vanilla.

locking it in, no getting my way out of it.

if ya ever think i lock myself into vanilla as scum, you silly

[Flavor Leaf]

Can it be as simple as some sort of combo of Hu/Bulge/Gamma?

Nah, probs not Gamma

[Flavor Leaf]

I will say Hu Tao page 52 is very Hu tao scum like.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL I think we both know you're not locked into anything even by saying that

disagree.

that's what people tried to do when I claimed Miller and was actually Miller.

And yet, I was miller.

I then changed it later, and was still my initial claim.

Same thing gonna happen here.

Vanilla town

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao moving off of Bulge before Drew hammering is highly indicative of ScumTao regardless of Bulge wagon, tbh.

They jumped it. That was big Scum Tao energy.

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Flavor Leaf]

Hu Tao was near the top for me earlier in the game, but been slowly going down. that was the kicker.

[Flavor Leaf]

lol im trying to make you take it back fl

you were never going to be in danger today

didnt claim for threat of lim

if anything, claim made it more likely (kinda)

scum dont want a vanilla though

[Flavor Leaf]

i think you're more likely to do something like that rashly as town im just annoyed that you did it and narrowed the kill pool

i was punishing yall

[Flavor Leaf]

or im cop

[Flavor Leaf]

if you see this game from the perspective of "Unabombah is town" then Hu Tao just does look like scum throughout the game.

We already know Hu Tao pushes down the people who scum read them when theyre scum too based on how they played against Nono last game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dann and Bulge both had weak past couple pages

[Flavor Leaf]

Might wanna claim

[Flavor Leaf]

If i were scum, it only makes sense to be scum with Bulge, cuz i didn’t even get a claim if I were scum which is just bad momentum shifting

[Flavor Leaf]

And i mean, 4 people voted after me, so it ain’t just me

[Flavor Leaf]

And i even am leaning Bulge AND Hu

[Flavor Leaf]

The Dann wagon is really just filled with a bunch of lean scum for me whereas the Hu Tao one I town read most of the wagon, if not all.

Day 1 is neat

[Flavor Leaf]

this is not a hard end of the day, yall just acting like you're supposed to solve game on day 1, and some of yall being performative

[Flavor Leaf]

dannflor coming off like the compromise end of the day wagon almost ensures it's flipping town

[Flavor Leaf]

scum trying to get dannflor wagon so hard.

[Flavor Leaf]

dannflor coming off like the compromise end of the day wagon almost ensures it's flipping town

And you think I'm flipping scum? After this game assuming you're town you no longer have rights to say you can read me.

nah, i can call scum you out when you make a play easily.

i cant say for sure you're scum here which gives credit, but def more likely than dann.

[Flavor Leaf]

its probably just Marcistar tbh, but their claim lets them live a few days.

[Flavor Leaf]

and worst case scenario, im wrong on dannflor is scum, and to ever push me someone has to act like i put my head on the line this obviously with an already vanilla claim and a back and forth with dann earlier.

so win/win for me when im trying to coast through to the end.

but id be remiss if i didn't shout for clout on dannflor

[Flavor Leaf]

dannflor coming off like the compromise end of the day wagon almost ensures it's flipping town

And you think I'm flipping scum? After this game assuming you're town you no longer have rights to say you can read me.

nah, i can call scum you out when you make a play easily.

i cant say for sure you're scum here which gives credit, but def more likely than dann.

In both scum games you've been in with me, where have I ever risked saving a partner? Or even hard townreading them?

i dont think you would be scum with Bulge here, some others made some good points, you would be White Knighting townBulge.

[Flavor Leaf]

Id rather other slots than you too, but if I gotta pick from you and Dann, it's you, cuz Dann is town here + just more cohesive going forward because of that town read.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dann I've even been trying to work with you here. I've been asking for your read on drew and you've skipped over it multiple times (unless I'm missing it) I would flip to Drew in a heartbeat

why would a scum dann not answer and not try to get it to flip onto Drew?

I think Drew's town too here, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

shouldnt go any slot that Marci wants dead tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

dannflor coming off like the compromise end of the day wagon almost ensures it's flipping town

And you think I'm flipping scum? After this game assuming you're town you no longer have rights to say you can read me.

nah, i can call scum you out when you make a play easily.

i cant say for sure you're scum here which gives credit, but def more likely than dann.

In both scum games you've been in with me, where have I ever risked saving a partner? Or even hard townreading them?

i dont think you would be scum with Bulge here, some others made some good points, you would be White Knighting townBulge.

Well this is a 180 from your previous statement. Okay even in this case, why would I put that much attention on myself? White knight an eventual town flip to that extent is not good scumplay since it's LAMIST.

disagree, because people wouldn't have punished you for it,

You got town read for it by most people.

And it's still possible you're town. Give me a slot that isn't Drew, Roden, or Dann to turn to, and maybe we can talk.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like imo, Marci looks like obv scum to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Not touching anywhere they're pushing with a 10 foot pole.

[Flavor Leaf]

dannflor coming off like the compromise end of the day wagon almost ensures it's flipping town

And you think I'm flipping scum? After this game assuming you're town you no longer have rights to say you can read me.

nah, i can call scum you out when you make a play easily.

i cant say for sure you're scum here which gives credit, but def more likely than dann.

In both scum games you've been in with me, where have I ever risked saving a partner? Or even hard townreading them?

i dont think you would be scum with Bulge here, some others made some good points, you would be White Knighting townBulge.

Well this is a 180 from your previous statement. Okay even in this case, why would I put that much attention on myself? White knight an eventual town flip to that extent is not good scumplay since it's LAMIST.

nah, you're just acting like it's LAMIST.

white knighting works hard. especially after the game goes on because people dont remember.

[Flavor Leaf]

hardest part about this is i town read the entirety of Hu Tao wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

I could see Gamma as scum here playing from the side lines of the inner circle.

[Flavor Leaf]

if Hu tao is town, Gamma's play does look kinda warlocky trying to get Hu Tao to push townies.

[Flavor Leaf]

In terms of reads, I think the scumteam is entirely within Roden, Marcistar, The Bulge, Xegarus, geraintm

I would like to narrow that down if possible

Why Roden and Marci?

Gamma's made a lot of posts like this with the 'why' and whatnot, and that's probably some fluffy scum play.

I think Gamma and Marci are both scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

the 3rd is hidden, but Gamma/Marci is seeming likely for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Geraint, Nono, JJh probably has the 3rd. JJh is paranoia of deep wolf more than actually seeing them as scum, but idk if im gonna be able to drop that paranoia, and i dont really think jjh and marci is scum/scum. tinfoiled it earlier, but idk.

[Flavor Leaf]

like, imo, does it make sense Hu Tao is town here? sure.

but I just dont see Dann as scum here. That wagon is scum infested, i might even believe 3 scum are on that wagon. not entirely sure of that, but i dannflor doesn't come after me the way they did earlier as scum in the position they were in.

and it just kinda fits with Gamma backing me up on Xerg slot earlier in the game.

I would say Gamma is almost always scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

they're playing well, but like, I can see it pretty clearly, but I couldn't at first.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm already feeling good about certain slots this early.

VOTE: Gamma

to me this vote seems like sheeping trs onto the beeg wagon so that they dont have to take responsibility themselves

but like

idk i feel like gammas pretty scummy
so idk if this would be an aligned interaction or not

check their ISOs.

It's totally Gamma and Marcistar.

[Flavor Leaf]

I called it out way earlier too and then they played around it.

...

VOTE: Gamma

E-1

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE: Gamma
VOTE: Xegarus

I got like 3 reasons for this.

I wanna find out if they're scum trying to keep me on the table, or if they're just townie with a big ol stick.
I wanna move off Gamma.
I want to relieve pressure off Gamma and pushing back at Xeg likely moves their vote onto me.

I FUCKEDD UP WITH MY ULT NOOO

WOW WTF U GOT ME ALL WORRIED ABT GAMMA FPOR NO REASON

ah damn, are Marci and Gamma scum together? Could just be Marci white knight.

gonna avoid that thought for now because it's just paranoia, but i got big pings from that marci. looks like a performance, but i can see them posting like that as town.

And im kinda okay letting others solve for Marci.

[Flavor Leaf]

I could see Gamma as scum here playing from the side lines of the inner circle.

If I’m playing from the sidelines of the inner circle I’m far more likely to be town. As scum I either root in deep or sit firmly outside.

would you say you're playing from the sidelines of the inner circle here and my analysis is correct on that spot at least, or do you disagree you are playing from the sidelines of the inner circle?

[Flavor Leaf]

but i need it out there in the case i end up in elo with you for my own reminder

do you want our signatures too for that famous "i told ya so"?

what do u think about hu tao

I'm already feeling good about certain slots this early.

VOTE: Gamma

to me this vote seems like sheeping trs onto the beeg wagon so that they dont have to take responsibility themselves

but like

idk i feel like gammas pretty scummy
so idk if this would be an aligned interaction or not

Hu Tao fine. I thought they were the best one on Gamma really, and I did like how they handled the miller claim

i can usually sus Hu Tao out if they're scum, so I'm happy to just town read them until something big pings me

this back and forth is Marci trying to move off of Gamma, but keeping a sus there.

It's fake.
They tried to move me onto Hu Tao too because Hu Tao was voting Gamma.

[Flavor Leaf]

maybe Una's their partner, and thats why Una got stuck tunneling Gamma.

Idk. I'm not trying to full team solve right here.

I just think there's a lot of merit to Gamma being scum, and Dann being town here. I think both these wagons are probably on town, and scum sitting waiting for it to go through.

Either that, or Hu tao scum, but I think Gamma over Hu Tao as scum, and probably not aligned. Makes more sense Gamma trying to warlock Hu Tao.

[Flavor Leaf]

if Hu tao is town, Gamma's play does look kinda warlocky trying to get Hu Tao to push townies.

This does not look real. You realize I actually tried to workshop a treaty with Hu Tao? I don’t see how you look at me and my Hu Tao progression and call it warlocking.

Yep. This is scum Gamma.

I'm probably not wording it correctly at all, and there really isn't a major case, and maybe it isn't warlocking.

But your dynamic with Tu Tao is ScumGamma.

"This does not look real." is where you go with this. Why would I push something that isn't real like that? Even as scum, I like to steep in stuff like that, so I wouldn't push it if I couldn't warrant it as scum. This is a discredit tactic, exactly what you gotta do here.