YOUR STREAK OF BEING TOWN HAS RUN OUT!
Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over
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charter Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
- Posts: 9261
- Joined: July 12, 2007
- Location: Virginia
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charter Beware of Dog
- Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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25- odd that Xdaamo wagons GC when GC has zero votes.
26- camn says her initial vote was serious
33- OMGUS vote
34- Incog, what about post 26 where camn most definately says her initial vote was serious when she didn't say that I should not be lynched because I can be scummy as town.
39- Yos, where do you get camn was trying to get reactions? of who?
Not that I remember.korts wrote:charter: are there any more games that you and camn have been together in?
I don't see anything scummy with confirming late.
50- Yos, your second "meh" in your post didn't make anything clear.
Haha. I can give you a bunch of games where I'm obvtown independant of alignment. The tranquility game was probably the game I've played the worst in ever.camn wrote:Plus, I challenge anyone to show me a game where charter doesn't act super-scummy.
I can't believe this game has already exploded.
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charter Beware of Dog
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I know you didn't actually think I was scum, but your reason behind voting me was serious, that "charter is scummy as town, so lets just lynch him".camn wrote:
Me neither, man.charter wrote: I can't believe this game has already exploded.
unvote
But I am not saying I was seriousabout you being scumin 26. I was saying that I was seriously anticipating that I wouldthinkyou were scum later on. So I might as well vote now .
Seriously (since all levity is gone).. I haven't seen anything scummy from charter yet this game.
Just for fun, I have a few games where I'm not scummy.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10182
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10086
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10062
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10338-
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charter Beware of Dog
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unvote, vote Dizzy
You just said you that it's untrue that you aren't scumhunting, then in the next sentence say you haven't added anything. Instead of adding something, you just come back with that post (which just seems like an "I'm here" post and don't ask anyone questions or nothing). I also looked back at your posts, you haven't asked anyone any probing questions or nothing (I guess that falls under not scumhunting) but you've talked about skitzer not confirming at length. Why is skitzer's confirmation time more interesting than questioning people?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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I mean, she's got nearly 20 posts in this thread. I'd think that's enough to have at least something.
That's also not why I'm voting her. I voted her because she's trying to say she is scumhunting when she got called out on it, but then says she hasn't added anything concrete to the game and does zero scumhunting in that post. But she still says she is. Why do you defend her?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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You're not questioning anybody at all. I'm not saying you need to question everyone, but in your post responding to his vote, you directly contradicted yourself, and failed to do any semblence of scumhunting.DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:
Because Skitzer's confirmation time was directly relevent to someone else's attempts at scum hunting. Ensuring that people don't come to incorrect conclusions is kinda important.charter wrote:unvote, vote Dizzy
You just said you that it's untrue that you aren't scumhunting, then in the next sentence say you haven't added anything. Instead of adding something, you just come back with that post (which just seems like an "I'm here" post and don't ask anyone questions or nothing). I also looked back at your posts, you haven't asked anyone any probing questions or nothing (I guess that falls under not scumhunting) but you've talked about skitzer not confirming at length. Why is skitzer's confirmation time more interesting than questioning people?
You seem to be confusing scum-hunting with asking a lot of questions. Sure, that's one valid approach. Another is to find the right question to ask at the right time. Think of it as the difference between a blunderbus and a sniper rifle. A blunderbus fires widely, covering a wide area and giving a greater chance of hitting the target. A sniper rifle firse a single shot aimed at a specific spot to give a good chance of hitting it's target. Both are perfectly capable ways of trying to kill someone, they just work in different ways.
As for the reason behind your vote and accusation that it's not content... well, would you expect me to just ignore something when someone, as Incognito did, uses it as a reason to vote for you. I answered his charge. That's hardly a content-free "Look, I'm here" post. You can't have it both ways. If you want to use your blunderbus-style question everything approach, surekly you expect people to answer? I mean, if they don't, you'd have a hard timn escum-hunting, wouldn't you?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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What were you expecting me to say in response to that? "Ok"? That's about all I can think to respond with. I don't see how I can be "brushing off" something this minute. From what I gather, the whole reason you're voting me is because I voted for dizzy. What kind of response were you expecting? Me to unvote dizzy just because you vote me? Seems like you're trying to make this seem way more important than it is.OhGodMyLife wrote:Oh right. My charter suspicion stemmed primarily from this post, which I brought up with this comment:At that point he was on my radar. He sealed the deal with the timing of his Izzy vote and the flippant brushoff I got here:
The Izzy vote seems like going after an easy target, and he seems to be using his offensive against Izzy as a way to ignore whats going on in the rest of the game, and specifically to dodge the point I raised to begin with. It is also hypocritical, something I brought up when I voted charter in the first place.charter wrote:
Yes.OGML wrote:Did you miss my concerns about your last two posts in your rush to jump on that bandwagon?
So that is why I'm voting charter.
Time to read the rest of this monster.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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That looked like the most promising page one bandwagon.Patrick wrote:Also, charter, you switched votes onto Incognito on page 1 after Ether explained her reasoning, why do that if you don't see anything scummy about confirming late?
I had just asked her about it because that was really the only time she asked anyone else a string of questions, I don't find late confirmation scummy, so I asked why she was looking in to that rather than scumhunting. Ether has done a lot more than accuse incognito of late confirming.camn wrote:I also am noticing that Dizzy comes out with almost the exact same case as Ether did, only on Skitzer, not Incog... but Dizzy catches a lot of heat for it, while Ether catches NO heat. What is the difference exactly?
GC/Xdaamo - Xdaamo certainly looks bad here. I thought GC's initial point and then 121 were good. I think it's getting out of hand with all these text walls now.
I didn't conclude this either.camn wrote:I did not conclude that Dizzy = scum.. but I can see charter's point.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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What are you even talking about? You said virtually nothing on me and expect me to have some dramatic reaction, then when I just say nothing in response, I'm scum? Your initial suspicion was poor and the fact that you're presenting it like it's cut and dry that I'm scum is ridiculous.OhGodMyLife wrote:
I was hoping you'd go back to that nice list you made and actually draw some conclusions based on it. You've still got a big "Information Instead of Analysis" sign hanging around your neck.charter wrote:What were you expecting me to say in response to that? "Ok"? That's about all I can think to respond with.
Hey look, charter is setting up a straw man just to knock it down.charter wrote:From what I gather, the whole reason you're voting me is because I voted for dizzy.
And he thinks he's knocked it down.charter wrote:What kind of response were you expecting? Me to unvote dizzy just because you vote me? Seems like you're trying to make this seem way more important than it is.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Can you list it for me, cause before all you said was "Oh, look, charter is hypocritically voting Izzy for something along the lines of active-lurking/not scumhunting. Did you miss my concerns about your last two posts in your rush to jump on that bandwagon?" when you voted. YOUR EXACT WORDS WERE "HYPOCRITICALLY VOTING" SO HOW IS IT A STRAWMAN AT ALL?OhGodMyLife wrote:
You seem to be implying once again that I was only ever voting you for bandwagoning, which is still a strawman.charter wrote:*Goes off on a rant about hypocritical bandwagon votes*
skitzer, who do you find most suspicious right now?
Haha, a game I was in just ended like five hours ago where a "miller" claimed day one, not in his first post. Was scum.
unvote, vote Yos-
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charter Beware of Dog
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No, I voted because Dizzy claimed she was scumhunting, when she wasn't, and then contradicted herself in the next sentence. If she had been like "yeah, I could be doing more" then there would be nothing to vote for.OhGodMyLife wrote:charter, the hypocritical part of your vote was not that it was a bandwagon vote, it was that your stated reasons were active lurking/not scumhunting, which up to that point described you just as well as they described Izzy.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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This is a lie by the way. OMGL voted right after he claimed, giving virtually no hint of moving his vote onto Yos before the claim.OhGodMyLife wrote:
This is no policy vote.Yosarian2 wrote:So, OGML; is this some sort of policy vote, or do you actually think, based on everything you know about me and on everything I've posted in thread so far this game, that I am scum?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Hmmm, let me test the water and defend Yos and more blending in!DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:I do not like this miller claim one bit. Yos is a skilled enough player to be able to avoid suspicion if he wants to, without needing to claim at this point. It makes no sense to me.
FOS.
I don't understand why there is so much discussion about Yos's miller claim. You're either going to vote him because he claimed scum, or you're going to vote him because you think he's scum. Arguing about when/if he should claim miller furthers neither of these two.
FOS Skitzer for 239. Many bad conclusions in there.
250- Wow, Dizzy has three suspects, but can't vote!
287- More noncomitting from Dizzy!
Exclaimation marks!!!
Not really. Yos claimed scum, still needs to be lynched. I still like Dizzy for scum too. I can easily see them as buddies.Patrick wrote:charter, any opinion on the last 3 pages or so? I can see you've been around.
I could lynch either Dizzy or Yos. Both look like scum to me.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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That wasn't a real attack. She clearly doesn't think it's suspicious because that's all she said on the subject, no following up on it, no vote, nothing. You either believe someone is actually a miller, or you think they're scum lying about it, there's really no middle ground. I saw Dizzy saying he doesn't need to claim miller if he's scum, hence she's saying he's town, aka defending him.Yosarian2 wrote:
Why would you quote a line where Izzy is quite clearly attacking me, and then pretend that she's defending me in that line? Why are you inventing stuff to try to tie me to Izzy, charter?charter wrote:
Hmmm, let me test the water and defend Yos and more blending in!DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:I do not like this miller claim one bit. Yos is a skilled enough player to be able to avoid suspicion if he wants to, without needing to claim at this point. It makes no sense to me.
FOS.
Yeah, I call bullshit. You can't be 13 pages in and still not suspect anyone and actually be looking for scum.DizzyIzzyB13 wrote:
If you were paying attention, you'd realise that I don't have suspects yet, and the entire top three post is essentially a response to a request with little to no relevence or meaning.charter wrote:250- Wow, Dizzy has three suspects, but can't vote!
I think I will actuallyunvote, vote Dizzyagain.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Ok... So your plan is to just sit and do nothing until you see a connection? What day do you think this is going to happen on? Why should we let you coast through until this point?Dizzy wrote:Yes, you can. If, that is, you're not just looking to latch onto the first thing that vaguely doesn't sit right and call scum. Scum aren't the only people who act scummy. The art is sifting between occasional lapses by townies and discerning patterns of scumminess. I don't see patterns emerging yet, just confusion emerging from narrow focus and general theory discussion that does not necessarily add to the data from which opinions can be formed.
Wierd, I'm feeling more and more like she's scum.Incog wrote:DizzyIzzy's last few posts have been solid. I'm beginning to feel much better about her alignment actually lol.
If that's what you're calling it. All I said was you didn't catch Yos like you claimed you did. He did it for everyone.OGML wrote:Gee, thats funny. You blatantly defended Yos shortly after his roleclaim by questioning my motives for voting him, yet at the same time you were voting him. If thats not the recipe for scum distancing, I just don't know what is.
How on earth do you think Dizzy is a mislynch? What has she done that is remotely protown to you?OGML wrote:This post is obvious bet hedging. If DizzyIzzy gets lynched today, fantastic for charter he just scored a mislynch. If Yos2 gets lynched today, sucks that he lost a partner, but at least he's making some inroads on getting Izzy lynched tomorrow for his trouble.
If Yos becomes a viable lynch target again I will be right back there. Else I think my vote is better on Dizzy than just wasting usefulness on Yos.OGML wrote:Here is where charter quietly slips off the Yos2 wagon now that it looks like he might be safe for the day. And on top of that, he pulls the same "Appeal to Page Number" crap. (That tell really needs a better name.)
I only read the parts where I saw my name in that monster. If there's other stuff I should have read, can you bold it or something?OhGodMyLife wrote:Now its my turn to get an idea for who's actually reading my posts.
Even happier with my Dizzy vote after calling out other noncontributers and voting Korts.
Korts needs to read or be replaced.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Slightly scummy. I don't really see why me being in that other game with him is relevant unless he fakequickhammers in this game too.Ether wrote:Charter, you were in the second game Incognito linked to--what do you think of Xdaamno?
Dizzy is trying to argue that posting less in a particular game is a scumtell. Obviously false. I'm posting a lot more than this in some other games, and less than this in some other games. It really depends on my current interest in the particular game.
Green Crayon's arguing the meaning of a couple and Korts said 9 but it was only 7 or whatever seems really trivial to me.
If you're going to vote Korts for lurking, then just say that, don't try and pad your vote with all this other useless stuff. (OMGL, quick! I'm scum with Korts now too! Better revise your scum theories to include this!)-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Ok... what I'm getting at is why is this suspicious at all?Green Crayons wrote:To go from a couple to nine in the span of 14 hours is not semantics. It's an incredibly glaring misrepresentation at one point or the other.
So you think I'm trying to bus Izzy then?Korts wrote:My list of suspects is now: Izzy, charter, Xdaamno based on the above.
FOS. Seems like you're trying to encourage Xdaamos lynch without getting your hands dirty.Incog wrote:Having said that, I should note that I probably wouldn't be completely averse to his lynch if the consensus believes he should be today's lynch. Right now, Korts is looking much scummier to me though.
I see that my vote is still on Yos, I thought I switched it back to Dizzy.
unvote, vote DizzyIzzy
GC in 506- From my experience, the conclusions you drew is how Xdaamo plays. I've never seen him really care about a game.
508- Ha, if you'd said, well, Xdaamo is a better lynch than me (arguable because I doubt Xdaamo can claim a role worse than miller) I'd have bought it, but this just makes me more suspicious of Yos.
509- Xdaamo is being a retard. "Don't hammer until I say so, but I'm going to put myself at L-1!". I'm unsure if Xdaamo as scum would do something this idiotic.
FOS. If him self voting enforces your belief that he is town, then I think you must be scum trying to gain town cred when Xdaamo flips town. There's absolutely no reason why a self vote should get you town cred. I think I've just convinced myself I think it more likely that Xdaamo is trying to gain sympathy.Incog wrote:Xdaamno's self-vote makes me feel even more than ever that he's likely town. I do not support this wagon.
That's odd, this happened in this game where the SK put himself at L-1 early in day one and won the game.Incog wrote:I can't recall a single instance where a player who self-voted closer to L-1 happened to be a scum player.
Where did anyone attack my reasons for voting Yos? I'd still lynch him in a heartbeat if he gets to six votes.Patrick wrote:It seems like he just jumped on the Yos wagon when it was becoming popular and then came off when people starting analysing it more thoroughly and asking for reasons;
I add Incog to my list of Dizzy and Yos to give you the scumteam.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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This is bullshit. "Getting your hands dirty" means actually taking part in the lynch. It has no bearing on Xdaamo's alignment, because regardless of his alignment, you as scum, would not want to be a part of his lynch if you can avoid it.Incognito wrote:
Errrr... my intention there should be clear: I believe a Korts-lynch is more likely to hit scum than an Xdaamno-lynch, but IPost 539, charter wrote:
FOS. Seems like you're trying to encourage Xdaamos lynch without getting your hands dirty.Incog wrote:Having said that, I should note that I probably wouldn't be completely averse to his lynch if the consensus believes he should be today's lynch. Right now, Korts is looking much scummier to me though.believedthat Xdaamno had been behaving in such a way that I could have easily seen myself lending my vote to his wagon if people preferred his lynch instead. Given the new information that I received from Xdaamno's self-vote though, I've obviously revised this position and wouldn't support his lynch today at all, but I can't see how you could interpret that as me lending support to his lynch without getting my hands dirty -- I'd have placed my vote on his wagon, and I've been busy questioning him about a lot of his actions all day, which means that if he were lynched and did happen to flip town, I'd be at blame just like anyone else who might have ended up on his wagon.
Further, the only way I could possibly get "my hands dirty" is if Xdaamno is indeed town. Do youknowhim to be town here?
No, I meant exactly what I said, the theory only works with you scum profiting from an Xdaamo town lynch. And I don't know where you got that second part from, I very clearly said "If him self votingIncog wrote:"When" Xdaamno flips town? Don't you mean "if"? You're making it seem like it was just the self-vote that made me think he was more likely to be town. I had also already mentioned that I thought his play was similar to one of the past town games I looked into.ENFORCESyour belief that he is town", not is the sole basis for your belief.
No, I'm not going to read a bunch of games that have no bearing on this one (especially when you can pick and choose them to prove whatever point you wish). I think you were hedging your bets that he'd get lynched and tried to earn some town points from it.Incog wrote:Also, did you even look at those previous self-voting games I've linked to? I've taken this exact same position in multiple games where I've been town and have found it to be a fairly successful town-tell. I don't think his frustration looks manufactured, I do think his frustration looks genuine and townish, and so I don't want to lynch him today. Do you think my reasoning for thinking him town looks contrived?
Why on earth would I pick now to all of a sudden be suspicious of someone unless I actually thought they did something suspicious? Why would I pick Incog who's so "obvtown" to all you sheep?Patrick wrote:Your sudden suspicion of Incognito seems very contrived; even a cursory look at the links he gave would show that he's given people town cred for self-voting in the past. I could understand disagreement, but the fos seems very forced.
And as for the comment in SPQR. Oh I don't know, maybe because it happened BEFORE I knew the SK self voted. So obviously I can't say what I said in SPQR is true anymore. Try and fabricate better arguments next time.
I also love how Incog can't vote for me until others vote for me. His responses were terrible, but you all can follow him to your graves for all I care.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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I don't see how on earth you can think self voting is a TOWN tell. I've never thought someone was town for self voting, I generally ignore it.Incog wrote:The point is if you previously held a certain belief as town that you "don't even remember the last time you saw scum do it when it wasn't a hammer to end the day short" then you should technically see where I'm coming from and should NOT use that as reason to be suspicious of me.
Convincing argument there. If you want, I can give you a bunch of bad reasons why I would pick now as town to go with your bad reasons I'm supposedly doing it as scum.Patrick wrote:I don't know.
No, it's actually a wrong reason.korts wrote:Also, Incognito has a very good point on charter's reasoning in SPQR vs. Incog's reasoning in this game.
Yos's post is so full of garbage I'm not responding to it. Every single point he made was flat out wrong, and obviously so.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Because I target someone, pray they aren't NK'ed, and they can say that they are indeed a mason with me? Neither of us will be mod confirmed, so I'm not really sure if they should be hesitant to out themselves because it isn't going to mean anything and I can target people not aligned with me (though I won't know if I do or not).-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Yeah. Except I'm town, I don't know the alignment of who I pick.Green Crayons wrote:I only skimmed the past day or whatever it's been since I posted last.
charter, am I to understand that you're just a neighbor who gets to pick who they want to be able to talk to, but there is no alignment shift of your target?
FOS. If I was a recruiter than there would only be one person I could target and it would do anything.Korts wrote:Frankly, this claim reminds me of a fakeclaim for Mafia Recruiter.
camn, a recruiting mason is pretty much worthless since they both don't know the other's alignment.
Ether, why would I think my claim would prevent my lynch? Only one person who unvoted me gave a reason other than, "looks like we've run up charter, seen he has a non-threatening role, time to move on to the next target", which was Yos.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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Whatever, I don't care, if you're truly that dumb and think I'm making this up, then lynch me. If you've ever played with me, I never pick something this absurd to claim as scum, I always try and out a doc or cop. OH MY GOD, APPEAL TO EMOTION AND WIFOM TOO!!! Let's speedlynch him! (I'm betting that's OGML's next post).
Ether has just jumped up astronomically in scumminess because she hasn't mentioned me all game, then all of a sudden, my claim means I'm scum .-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Ummm, if the person I claim to target dies tonight, there's no way I'll not be lynched tomorrow.I'mnot a retard. Orrr, the person I target doesn't die, and can confirm what I said. If they refuse, go ahead and lynch me, then when you see I'm not full of shit, you can lynch the scum.
Your reason is absolute bullshit. The fact that you actually want to speedlynch me reeks of scum too. I think I'm up to five scums... Maybe someone not act scummy for a change?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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- Beware of Dog
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Oh wow, I wish I had looked at my role PM earlier than now to answer Patrick's questions. One of you is about to become my mason parter (it does explictly say mason). I have to use it before the end of day one, then we can talk at nights, including the first night. They then get a PM saying they are in a mason pair with yours truly and the QT. It says nothing about getting mason tagged to their role name, but that's an important question.
Mod, if a mason recruiter targets someone, does their role PM change to reflect this?
I'm thinking I can just use it on whoever is going to get lynched today if it does reflect this, and force the mafia to NK me tonight.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Today, before night.Patrick wrote:If you recruit someone, will they know about it today or only when night hits?
Take this up with vollkan. No one's win condition changes.GC wrote:I don't buy you can become a mason with someone without an alignment shifts. Then you aren't masons. You're neighbors.
Does your win condition change at all depending on who you target? Does their win condition change at all depending on what alignment they originally were?-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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What I highlighted in 539, didn't really like his rebuttal in 547, then only voting for me after others had.
His voting record recently is really bad in my opinion. He's been on me and Korts, and there's zero reason to lynch either of us today. He was on Dizzy before, and I thought his case against her was good, but it magically vanished at one point, never to hear another word from it again.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Rules wrote:4: Lynching requirements are set out in the previous post. Once a lynch is decided, the decision is final. Feel free to continue posting until the thread is locked, but unvoting, etc. before I check the thread will not prevent the player from being lynched.MODdoes this mean we need seven votes for a lynch at deadline, or will the person with the most number of votes be lynched? There wasn't a previous post to reference.
Right now I think it's
DizzyIzzyB13 (5/7): charter, Xdaamno, Yosarian2, Ether, Korts
Xdaamno (3/7): Green Crayons, camn, Patrick
By my count we need two more if vollkan is going to make us seven to lynch, though I just don't think he's been able to check this in a while. I'm also seeing just a little over three hours until deadline, so we should get a move on. I'll be around until then I believe.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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Yes, this worried me too. Skitzer has been uber lurking, but he seems to do that everywhere.Incognito wrote:Patrick: I too am bothered by skitzer. An additional point against him is how he spent a large percentage of his time yesterday denouncing the issues against DizzyIzzy and giving flak to the people who brought them forward but then ended the day with his vote on her wagon anyway by seeming to "tailor" a case against her. I think it's rather odd for him to originally not see what people were getting at with her but then seeming to magically see the light right at deadline when he was pressured to finally place a vote.
Ether is also playing starkly differently from the game I modded she was in where she was town, soooo, that's kind of suspicious too.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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I'm not arguing this. There were two kills last night. I don't think either was from a pro town source, because a pro town player with a vig shot would have shot you last night. That's how I come to SK.Yosarian2 wrote:
Eh...the whole point of a gunsmith roles is that the mafia has guns, but so do some pro-town people (generally cops, vigs, perhaps PGO's although that dosn't really matter, perhaps some others), so a "gun" result is significantly less useful then a guilty, and may actually out a pro-town power role if the gunsmith isn't careful. I've never seen a gunsmith in a game without a pro-town gun, never. This could be the first, of course.charter wrote:I don't think there's a vig. I think it's a SK because a vig would have shot Yos. However, normally, SK's don't use guns, so it does make the gunsmith role more of a question.-
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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charter Beware of Dog
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