Mini 1346: Flavorless Mafia - GAME OVER

[Junpei]

Psyche: What is your logic behind not posting before something happens, and what is your logic for saying this is your intention and then immediately defecting?

[Junpei]

(inb4 people don't believe my obviously reaction-fielding post wasn't just me being horridly unintelligent...)

Alright, all reaction tests must have purpose and intention. Lets hear about those things for this test and it better be beyond "to catch scum". What reactions were you specifically looking for?

[Junpei]

I was not being a sheep, or trying to "buddy" you, I simply found Psyche's initial post very suspect, and I don't particularly believe the reaction gauging line he's claiming. If he is a townie, trying to reaction gauge with a very suspicious first post, then coming out and saying the person who accused him of being suspicious is a possible mafia, is a line that makes literally zero sense.

This is consistent with what he said earlier...

Simply found Psyche's first post very suspect

Don't believe the reaction gauging line he's claiming

Have a seen a reaction test before? Yeah I have, I've even done them, but there wasn't anything else to say; I was pretty sure he'd say something like he did, but there was a chance it was a legitimate test so I figured I'd ask. I've recently asked for more info on the motive behind the post... we'll see what Psyche says.

I must have missed the sheeping case on FatCat, could you explain it?

[Junpei]

Hm.

FatCat: Why did you call Psyche's stupidity in his first post null? No more dodging the question, and your dialogue is heavily bias and isn't worth anything.

I'd vote you but then you'd be at L-1.

Farside: As for FatCat's suspicion of Psyche's reasoning on the reaction test, I see his point of view and don't view that in particular as suspicious. If you read Psyche's post, you can see the perspectives which might view it as a response which he knew he'd have to give and wasn't too worried about and one which is seriously backtracking.

Still can't find the sheeping claim.

[Junpei]

lolgic

DLG: How is this slot I quoted null-town when Deltabacon is scum for avoiding game content by posting but not posting anything which could be read as any alignment? That's exactly what Ellibereth did here.

[Junpei]

Farside:

@ Junpei
Not before just something happens, something

scummy

. Which means he doesn't want to slip up, and he doesn't want to be involved in making that something scummy happen. Self preserving and not wanting to scumhunt.

What's your rationale for not voting scum?

@ Ellibereth
Agreed. Vote, please?

@ Deltabacon
Why RVS? Scum's been found. Help lynch him.

You totally need some third-order theory of mind. This is terrible.

Iwonder if you honestly think I was behaving authentically and with the intentions you ascribed on me.
By the way, do you?

My play up to now has been to end the RVS with the first post of the game. Plan successful.

DLG's response kinda reads as over-acting, like he took a hardball stance on my post JUST to take a hardball stance on my post and look good doing it. It's not a convincing performance because it's overdone.

Let's start there. DLG seems like a pretty reactive person, right?

vote DLG

. OMGUS, mayne.

And Junpei's post reminds me of a splashing magikarp...

Underlined would be read as scum trying to joke out of a position saying "You thought I was serious?"
Italics is more excuses
Second underline is attacking the person who attacked him for what we're saying he's backtracking from.

I mean, when I lay it out like this it looks pretty convincing, but I still think that it is just an early game reaction test that he backed out of once he found something.

FatCat's 41 is very sufficient in my opinion, consider my suspicion dropped for now.

[Junpei]

OK my reads so far:-

Psyche-

Your lines so far have been weird, but there's a good chance you're a townie playing around with a weird gambit

Farcry-

To be honest, you're using logic, although logic has misguided you to suspect me, I still think you're a townie and I definitely haven't helped my case by being short with you and posting the mocking dialogue.

Junpei

- You had a chance to make it L-1 against me, and didn't, in fact you did the opposite, made it clear to me I had to explain myself better instead of squabbling with Farcry, now that I have you're saying I look innocent. This in my eyes makes it 100% certain that you're a townie.

DGM-

Nailed on mafia. Being illogical and telling lies. Saying I was sheeping and trying to buddy him, when I simply was the second person to vote for Psyche, after Psyche posted a VERY suspect post.

Was Farside being illogical by thinking you were scum? Was Farside telling lies by calling you scum?

Farside: Why did you want to see the interpretation of Psyche's post? For fun? Also I keep typing your name in as "farcry", so if I accidentally do that in the future, no hard feelings.

[Junpei]

1) I read salient as silent

2) Your opening post on review is contradictory. The action you describe as salient is actually prominent in the way that is commonly thought of.

3) Very good point with DLG's thinking that you're hiding when you had already made several posts, seems like sheeping onto an easy vote

4) In post 21, I see no issue other than the tone sounds fake to me.

That combined with my aforementioned issue with DLG's read list...

vote DLG

What I do want though is for you to refer to DLG as DGB... I'm getting mixed up and it's unproductive and not efficient to change the names.

pedit: Psyche: Why did you unvote?

[Junpei]

I didn't see Deltawave jumping on the Psyche wagon, which is the whole reason Elli is town.

X makes Elli town
Delta does X
Y makes Delta scum
Eli does Y

You all see the problem, no?

[Junpei]

DLG: Inconsistent reads are indicative of a faulty line of thought. Somewhere, you consciously wrote something which was contradictory and did not correct it. Mafia would do this because their reasons aren't through investigation of the situation (which would cause context making the error clear) but rather trying to find someone to suspect (thus attacking people for inconsistent reasons).

Explain why you wanted the back and forth to end yet attacked FatCat for agreeing with you.

Slaxx: You have not explained why you are voting me. No scum reads yet? Why did you think DLG was scum?

Psyche:

pedit: Psyche: Why did you unvote?

[Junpei]

#30= farside slight town. I agree with the stance she took on Junpei.
#44= farside slight town. I was going to ask FatCat if he was an alt at the end of this post. I like that our minds are going the same places.

So having the same opinion as you makes someone town? Okay, that logic isn't completely broken or anything.

FatCat: Pick three posts that aren't by DLG to comment on that you haven't commented on yet. Your obsession with DLG is troubling and narrowminded.

@ FatCat
If you're interested, read some of my other games. It might change your opinion regarding my capacity for logic.

Would you like me to respond to that earlier interchange between us?

1) On review this looks like he wants us to look at his games to show he's playing like his town meta. My point is that bringing up his previous games here seems out of place.

2) You once again offer to go into a back and forth, deflecting FatCat's point.

Iknal, I would love to hear how you think that DLG is not scum given the evidence presented. Don't bother using "gut" response; and being voted because of being active seems like an unfair coincidence to use to write off the case on DLG.

Slaxx: I do not have the most posts in the game, but I agree with you that the first two reads you quoted are poorly founded. I have no issue with the reasoning behind the third though.

[Junpei]

selfdoubt. I'll get to this thread 'soon'.

What specifically caused the self doubt?

I don't see it explicitly stated anywhere.

[Junpei]

Well Slaxx if it's any condolence, I also am all about 'the thought process' and how someone comes to the conclusion rather than the conclusion itself. I can't go through every question with you but I'm sure if I did you would see a common theme: that is, me trying to get in the subjects' head and understand what's going on in it.

My issue with the Farside thing is that you're assuming a line of thought instead of hearing it. My questions let me hear it, so to speak.

[Junpei]

Farside: Well if he's doing what I speculated (DLG trying to use meta to show he's town) then he would want us to look at both town and scum games. Not sure why we have to only look at town games to see he's playing like his town meta specifically. Reread what I said.

FatCats' point here is that DLG is trying to attack FatCat of killing the conversation as scum when DLG also wanted to kill the conversation.

The very next post is DLG responding to a few things, but only two lines go to Fatcat, and the only thing even close to FatCat's point (which was very good) was scathing it, rather than addressing it.

Slaxx: I don't explain town reads without a good enough reason. Though I'd list Psyche as my best town read, but I don't have a strong one. I always investigate everyone, and believe in scum reads, no town reads. Town tells can be faked, scum tells are committed. I have seen good things which you might call a town tell from a few people in this game, but I don't work that way.

[Junpei]

1) On review this looks like he wants us to look at his games to show he's playing like his town meta. My point is that bringing up his previous games here seems out of place.

Farside: Where do I say only town games?

[Junpei]

Oh.
Farside:
No I meant that he wanted us to look at his meta to show that he is town. That he wants us to see that he is playing to his town meta. You can not look at one alignments' meta in a vacuum, you must look at both. Additionally, in case this is what you're talking about, if DLG is scum doing what I was saying, then he definitely would want us to see he's playing like his town meta, not that he's playing like his scum meta, obviously. Of course in order to do this, we'd have to look at both alignments and compare it to this game.

[Junpei]

I'm not working hard to support FatCat, I just call things how I see them. I even just checked, and I have investigated FatCat too. FatCat insulted you, and you responded with saying "if you're interested, read some of my other games". I've seen a million of those types of insults (attacking someones' thinking/logic ability) in my time here, and I can't remember people responding offering out games for meta.

130 is acting like you felt FatCat was just making an honest mistaken interpretation, but I read your initial response and the tone reads that you're making a snide remark in response to an insult.

Also I'm saying you may have been trying to get us to look at previous games because you were consciously acting like your town meta.

Ellibereth: Please contribute or replace out. What is your read on DLG and why?

[Junpei]

Absolute insistence on making sure you are never inconsistent is indicative of reading yourself and grooming your posts to make sure no one can find fault with them. Mafia would do this because they want to avoid suspicion.

We can debate theory post-game, if you want.

Uh no, you don't get to dismiss a tell as game theory. Mafia can't simply avoid suspicion that way because they are inconsistent for the reason I stated.

Yes, you were the first to want to disengage, I know that. Yes, FatCat insulted you (I find it hard to believe that you noticed this insult and not the other insult about logic) and yes he said he didn't answer questions (but he said why: they were repetitive/waffling(?)).

I just don't understand what you hoped to achieve at 77 that you couldn't achieve at 65.

I'll agree with you on one thing though:

This does not indicate a desire to lynch. It indicates a desire to make sure you "look" better and make sure I shut up.

If all of the sudden the argument actually did have merit, then dropping it early is showing lack of will to lynch. That goes for both of you. FatCats' obsession with you is bad as well, and is cause for suspicion.

[Junpei]

selfdoubt. I'll get to this thread 'soon'.

What specifically caused the self doubt?

I don't see it explicitly stated anywhere.

Psyche, don't ignore me, it's true you seem more town than others, but that doesn't give you any right to ignore questions. This question is important as it explains the seriousness of your vote and the weight of your unvote. It seems like you're waffling on whether or not to lynch DLG - as if you can't decide if you want to present something which could pull the breaks or let it run.

[Junpei]

..Oh.. you think that doing nothing but troll is a play style...
..

No one is claiming but DLG once we get him back to L-1. Why'd you unvote Deltawave, Ellibereth?

[Junpei]

Delta's posts read more like the use of thought to build a case that fits a predefined conclusion.

Huh? Explain how you see this because I don't see it.

[Junpei]

Oh, L-1.

I should not do that pre-read/analysis.

(Nor on page 4.)

Psyche: You unvote at L-1 for DLG but not for Deltabacon? We're talking a difference of a few pages.

[Junpei]

Delta's posts read more like the use of thought to build a case that fits a predefined conclusion.

Huh? Explain how you see this because I don't see it.

But I already diiiid.

Sorry for double post, but I forgot to respond to this.

I read your post three times now maybe more and I still don't see how it specifically looks like a case from a predefined conclusion instead of thought used to build analysis which reveals a conclusion. Checked your whole ISO as well - can't find an explanation.

[Junpei]

@Jun: Do you think there is anything town about Delta? If so what and why?

Well as I said I believe in scum tells not town tells, but Delta hasn't done anything in particular to make me think he is town. That being said, I don't feel the arguments for Delta expressed here outweigh the DLG arguments. And Psyche's predetermined conclusion still goes over my head.

I'll have to look to see if I can believe re: Joke not reaction test response from DeltaBacon's 162.

Delta: Have anything to comment on within a scumhunting basis past page 2?

[Junpei]

This should be everything. There were some things that others find suspicious in DLG that I didn't agree with though so if you want a comprehensive list you'll have to ask probably a couple others or just ISO other people.

• This post by DLG
  
• Seems to have a fake tone - It looks likes he's trying too hard to come off of the Psyche wagon and switch onto me
  
  This post by me
  
• DLG's Ellibereth and Deltawave reads contradict each other
  
  Psyche's post pointed out:
  
• Using a reason which wasn't valid anymore to justify an otherwise easy vote
  
  In response to an insult which he should have recognized as an insult
  
• Points to his meta, as if he is consciously conforming to his town meta and wants us to notice
  
• Dodges FatCat's good point
  
  The latest post in a back and forth discussing
  
• DLG showing desire to disengage with FatCat, attacking FatCat for disengaging, and reengaging with FatCat.
  sidenote: Also read the bottom of this post

Iknal:

Iknal, I would love to hear how you think that DLG is not scum given the evidence presented. Don't bother using "gut" response; and being voted because of being active seems like an unfair coincidence to use to write off the case on DLG.

I don't want this to be forgotten: Respond to this asap, and while you're at it give us all your scumreads and an updated read of Deltawave - your current one is honestly incomprehensible and I'd like more explanation.

[Junpei]

Therefore, I'm being very careful before pointing my figure at anyone else.

That's stupid - if you were to die wouldn't you want your reads heard? Town should want nothing to not come to light in regards to who is and isn't scum. I get wanting DLG lynched way over anyone else, but you show active suspicion of multiple people and still primarily push to and get a specific suspect lynched.

[Junpei]

DELTA CLAIM

Vote DLG, and have DLG claim, if you're so hot for anyone to claim. You haven't shown any real preference aside from the vote so should be no issue for you to switch.

[Junpei]

So first off - make sure no one CCs the Cop claim. No one claims till everyone checks in.

After that, if there are no CCs, DLG claims next. He's going to be at theoretical L-1 if there are no CCs anyway.

I still think that mass claim is a bad idea - especially if Deltabacon turns out to be town, there are so many possibilities of what else will be claimed that could fuck our cop. I'm not going to fight it though because I get the reason why it could be very beneficial and we might have already had a claim from our most important PR anyway.

[Junpei]

All players are either Vanilla Town or Mafia Goon.

Not too hard to understand.

That'd be mountainous. Flavorless means that there is no game flavor - no death scenes, lynch scenes, opening game flavor. And if you really believe this then why did you not just vote Delta who claimed something other than Vanilla Town?

[Junpei]

Ugh.. Fatcat...

..

Are you serious right now? There's two things wrong with your posting here, but for now I'll just say that it's not too hard to understand, considering people were setup speculating about PRs and you said nothing.

[Junpei]

I "reaction gauging" lololol

Thank you.

VOTE: FatCat

Explain this vote - why FatCat over DLG?

[Junpei]

FatCat has scumslipped twice now.

Okay so you think that Vanilla Villager is a scumslip even though he said Vanilla Town a few posts ago.. what is the other scum slip.. the "we're all mafia goons and vanilla town"? Okay I can buy that one maybe.

By the way the "other problem" with FatCat's posting I mentioned earlier was that he claimed VT when he thought it was mountainous, and it wasn't his turn.

FatCat: Why did you try to use a reaction test when you claim you did? What was the intended results?

[Junpei]

I "reaction gauging" lololol

So then explain this post?

[Junpei]

Lul Elli's town

So Psyche-Elli-FatCat are town
Farside probs town

Elli we can claim tomorrow after we lynch scum today just in case our inv role is tracker k

Im assuming we have an inv role, a prot role, and a mafia role to counter inv role+prot role (gf, rb, etc), just because I don't see any other combination if this is a "simple" game of mafia

FatCat what did you think when you read this post?

First you say you were flat out joking when you said the game was mountainous, now you say:

What is all this mass-claim nonsense. This is a flavorless game.

All players are either Vanilla Town or Mafia Goon.

Not too hard to understand.

OK I said this. And Psyche's claim was that I must be mafia because Bacon had claimed cop and if I was a villager I would have voted for him.

Psyche, I obviously knew I may have been incorrect about what exactly Vanilla game is, I really just wanted confirmation, I'm sorry if I sounded a bit hasty, I'm just watching the football at the same time as I'm playing.

That you were simply unsure of "what exactly Vanilla game is" and that you wanted a "confirmation".

Which is it, did you know what a flavorless game is or not?

[Junpei]

It wasn't a reaction test, I was being sarcastic.

You were being sarcastic. You thus knew that what you were saying was ridiculous.

I obviously knew I

may

have been incorrect about what exactly Vanilla game is, I really just wanted confirmation

You wanted confirmation. You thus did not know if what you were saying was ridiculous or not.

It's tough not to vote you right now, but DLG goes first, he's got lots of support, we can work from there.

[Junpei]

One last question FatCat: Why didn't you just ask?

[Junpei]

..So you're trolling?

I'm going to just write down in my notes that FatCat said something incredibly ridiculous and frantically and erroneously tried to cover up his failing which inadvertently gave up his role well after the fact. It is scummy especially considering that the stupid idea he posted contradicts his actions.

[Junpei]

Slaxx: A few questions:

1) Why are you still voting me

2) If I was where FatCat was, then why haven't you voted DLG or Iknal at all yet?

3) I thought DLG was null; what happeneD?

[Junpei]

But what did DLG do to move from null to second most likely to be scum?

[Junpei]

I said I thought he was scum up until his last post and now he was null.

I don't understand how you have a scum read go null then.. but whatever it's honestly not important, I get what you're doing and this is probably a terminology disparity.

Uh FatCat, I have issue (and so do most people) with premature claims on principle. Also I think it's known by everyone who has ever played with me and remembers me that I take notes, in fact I reference them every game I'd think. When I said giving up your role, I didn't mean necessarily Vanilla Townie, I was more referring to Mafia Goon.

[Junpei]

I don't get how he was at scum in the first place.

[Junpei]

Slaxx: Do what you want - it's better that way for the same reason it's better to let an unconfirmed cop choose his own result. Also is your avatar supposed to move when you stare at it?

FatCat: I already countered point 2, do you see any issue with my explanation? Do you know what a scumslip is?

pedit: Slaxx what the hell? What if someone were to counterclaim cop... is there any point in order at this point? You understand it was DLG's turn since the cop claim right?

[Junpei]

Well I really want DLG to claim next, then I will go and after that I don't really care - it's just important to me that DLG claims next, just as it was at the cop claim.

Slaxx I hope that you don't always assume your early reads are correct and actually continue to scumhunt or townhunt or whatever all game.

[Junpei]

Bussing happens all the time, especially considering you are now completely off the DLG wagon and are stuck onto me.

[Junpei]

That's an incredibly silly claim.. was that a serious claim attempt?

Anyway, VT here.

5. farside22
7. Ellibereth
8. Iknal
9. Psyche

4 claims left, any order is fine. Ellibereth and Iknal can contribute more content when they show up as well.

[Junpei]

DLG looks town to me because of the way he's going about the game. He has gone about trying to find scum in a very open manner, which makes understanding his posts a lot easier.

None of his posts set off any alarm bells

, and nothing has changed since I said this to change my mind about him.

Really? Did you read this post?

If you have issue with any of my points don't counter them, that's DLG's duty no matter what, but zero alarms? I think anyone would agree that at least something he posted is scummy.

How did Delta go from scum to town?

[Junpei]

DLG:

1. You won't change my opinion on this - I think you had ample reason to unvote Psyche, I just think that you failed to do it naturally.

2. Uh... I forgot about that explanation... I can accept it.

3. You said:

Which means he doesn't want to slip up, and he doesn't want to be involved in making that something scummy happen. Self preserving and not wanting to scumhunt.

If he didn't want to slip up, he wouldn't be posting, if he didn't want to get involved in anything (everything can make something scummy happen, e.g. rvs) he wouldn't be posting. Sounds like you only paid attention to his first post.

4.

I think maybe you're more of a right brained person, you seem to go on emotions and your logic is deeply, deeply flawed.

Here's the insult. No where does he say you are scum because you are right brained, he just says that you must be right brained because your logic is deeply deeply flawed.

4/2. Okay - Why was it a good idea to disengage, and why was that reason no longer applicable when you reengaged, and is it scummy to disengage?

5. You forgot the last part, but I included it in 4/2.

FatCat:
What happened to your confidence in DLg/Junpei scum?

Where am I?

Did you forget who you're voting for?

[Junpei]

Anyway like I said partner exclusions up tomorrow after my short shift at work, I'd prefer no one hammer before idk 5PM or so

When you write it all up, can you have reasons for each association/disassociation?

pedit: I need to reread DLG and all my arguments on him... He has actually done a good job defending himself, but I want to make sure he isn't doing what Whiskers did to me one game and slowly shift the interrogation off. Also need to make sure if I think he was thinking the things he says he was or not.

[Junpei]

Everything is too ambiguous.

Uh... what? Everything in a mafia game is always ambiguous, save for universal facts such as the dead cop had a guilty on X.

Just noticed you have your vote on nobody. Who do you think is scum currently? No one is at L-1, mind you.

[Junpei]

Well, he claimed cop.

Once all the claims are over, I'll discuss that claim.

What happened to this?

[Junpei]

Looked into just now and here's the best way I can put Psyches' point:

The post above really makes me enjoy my vote more.
Still dodges questions asked and doesn't answer them, then makes slapstick remarks that is untrue and shorted to make people look worse then they are and finally we have OMGUS to top if off.

The main point I had with FC was how he goes back and forth when claiming about whether it was reactionary or not. Then starts the OMGUS when cornered and questioned by Jun. Then switches to me when I vote for him. Basically reads as scared scum, flailing at this point.

These are the two posts where I think Farside quite clearly implies that OMGUS is a scumtell.

vote Farside22

Farside: Is OMGUS a scumtell?

[Junpei]

Well on review I am going to drop a decent amount of my suspicion of DLG. There are a few points I'm not satisfied with entirely, but he's done all he can. (specifically, points 1, 3, 4 I have various degrees of issue with - I just don't fully buy his reasoning which while sound is not the most likely to me) I'll look into his later posts and continue to investigate him but for now, FatCat is more suspicious than him, for reference.

Slaxx will we get that analysis tonight or...?

[Junpei]

{My points here was not all about OMGUS. Nice misrep. It's only a small part of a big case.}

It's the fact that OMGUS plays any part in the reasons that he is scummy that rings huge alarm bells.

Is OMGUS scummy?

[Junpei]

It's not guessing when I have placed multiple reasons throughout the game:

You really missed the point here.

Farside: Why is OMGUS a null tell?

Would also like to remind everyone of Iknal who has 5 posts and a generous 3 content posts this game. There are a good amount of things which he has yet to take a stance on and he says he has no time but there are just over 300 posts in this thread (not a large number) and he's due to mod a game soon (not my flavor of argument, but if he's going to play the busy card I will).

[Junpei]

Wow so much wrong with that post Farside..

@My "defense of FatCat and DLG": I was just pulling for stances on everything, and you hand picked ones which were in their favor. Why not highlight the posts AGAINST those two?

"town meta argument": I fully explained myself on this - you need to look at both town and scum games into order to see that they're playing to a meta.

"Showing suspicion of FatCAt but not voting him": Uh, I had a scumread on DLG that whole time and was still arguing with him over it. FatCat wasn't my highest scumread - I can't vote all of them.

"OMG he votes me!": That argument was and is very compelling - and if you were paying attention then you'd know why my suspicion of DLG went down a little. It's not a weak argument, it's a strong argument.

Also you didn't explicitly answer: 'OMGUS is null because..' I want you to admit that it is a null tell so that we can line it up next to why it's a scum tell.

[Junpei]

1) I can't comprehend what you just said.

2) Nope, but feel free to believe whatever.

3) How about you read the game first, because you'll probably figure out your answer.

4) The OMGUS part is the massive contradiction which condemns you. Just because you have other points doesn't make it less immensely suspicious.

5) I've probed this topic with you and I still don't understand how the doublethink is possible, I was hoping you'd be able to clarify how it was, but it sounds like you got caught.

#329: I don't understand this statement either.

[Junpei]

Null tell is something that scum and town are both equally likely to do - or there is no reason to suspect that one alignment would do it over the other.

1) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4125100
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4126841
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4127256
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4127266
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4127302
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4127310
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4127322
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4127333
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4127369
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4127450
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4130014
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4132897

Like REALLY you didn't see me investigated FatCat at all!?

3) What does "contractions" have to do with anything? Read my Conversation with DLG so you can see why he is less of a suspect.. I'm not interested in regurgitating everything. Suffice to say he convinced me I was wrong on some stuff.

4) Nice, all things shouldn't be treated equally - Every detail is important, that's still true today, but not every detail deserves the same attention. Some details incriminate the suspect - others another suspect. I've obviously read your fatCat case and I am still voting you. What more do you want?

5) Then I don't understand your objective.

[Junpei]

JUST SO EVERYONE UNDESTANDS:

FARSIDE ISN'T READING THE GAME.
IF SHE WAS THEN SHE'D SEE DLB DEFEND HIMSELF PRETTY DARN WELL TO WHERE I LOWER MY SUSPICION

ALSO SHE STOPPED TOO EARLY ON THE LINKS - AFRAID TO ACTUALLY BE WRONG?

THE POINT AGAINST YOU IS CONDEMNING - TOWN AND SCUM DO EVERYTHING, TOWN TELLS JUST MEAN THAT TOWN DO THEM MORE OFTEN, SAME FOR SCUM TELLS.

@Psyche: If she didn't clear up the OMGUS thing, then how the heck has she defended herself effectively?

OMGUS and other buzzwords that are erroneous are easy tools for scum to use - but good town knows that they are bad and stays away from them. Farside is both scum, but a skilled enough town player, which is why we have the dissonance.

Farside RE: FC:
His contradiction is scummy I agree - though it isn't really a full fledged contradiction, I see what you mean. You are also guilty of deflection - but yes that is suspicious to a degree. The thing is that the OMGUS point is a big deal in my opinion - and every attempt you have made to explain it has failed. It's not about quantity of issues, it's about quality of issues.

[Junpei]

Farside: Why didn't you mention this site earlier if it is the cause of your new viewpoint?

DLG is less scummy because some of my points on him have been nullified
FatCat is less scummy because the argument against you is a very condemning point to me; it's like a high percentage scumtell

Meta arguments like "X wouldn't' do Y as mafia" are what I think is awful.

Psyche: I don't see how that fixes anything. Either OMGUS is a null tell or it isn't.

[Junpei]

Null = scum and town equally are likely to do

Already said that, but there you go once more.

You said: X is not indicative of alignment
Then you said: X is a reason that FatCat is scum

You see the issue here? You didn't just say that FatCat did OMGUS, you implied that it was a reason he was scum. That it was a SCUM TELL.

Uh, I would say that practicing apparent doublethink of the usefulness of a tell is a high percentage scum tell.

pedit:

FARSIDE. READ MY POSTS!

I'm done talking with you until you acknowledge my conversations with DLG because at the end, I concede several points - and the reason is in his defense.

I just explained in this post for the nth time why what you did with OMGUS is 1) condemning and 2) a high percentage scum tell (two things which are very much the same thing). In my opinion it is a high percentage scum tell. I already explained why scum would do this and you said "well scum would know good town would do this", but that is erroneous because if scum acted like perfect town, then they would be unable to win. Sometimes scum have to do things that town should never do secretly in order to win.

[Junpei]

Farside: You're bringing things up on the fly that there is no reason that I should know about right now. For instance - why would I check up on your meta further when what Psyche submitted was showing that you're scum.

1) Why didn't you bring that research up to begin with

2) Why do you assume I know any of your hydra accounts?

In light of that... while I still don't understand your reasoning I might have to

vote FatCat

High percentage is an estimation.. what I mean is that I'd expect scum to do X MUCH MORE than town would do X. Why do you require so much research for every stance?

pedit: I couldn't find any gaping flaws in DLGs' posting, 298 is me checking in saying that I did look over his posts with what he said in mind a second time and was satisfied to certain degrees.

[Junpei]

That's L-1 by the way.

[Junpei]

Not until Slaxx comes in with complete analysis and Iknal comments on recent events.

[Junpei]

unvote

I guess, I don't think town would do that, making hammers scum claims, but if it makes you feel better.

pedit:
Farside. I assumed that you would interject if Psychs' research wasn't comprehensive enough. I trust Psyches' research abilities because of what he has done in MD. I'm really shocked that you're so upset over this.

pedit2: Psyche gets it obviously.

[Junpei]

Farside. I assumed that you would interject if Psychs' research wasn't comprehensive enough. I trust Psyches' research abilities because of what he has done in MD. I'm really shocked that you're so upset over this.

You assumed someone's who alignment you should have no knowledge of is 100% honest with you?

Why the hell would Psyche as scum lie there? So that you can call him out on total bullshit? I trusted 1) he would not intentionally deceive me regardless of alignment 2) if for some reason the information was not purely showing you as scum that you would point out why. My vote wasn't putting you at L-1, after all.

Vote FatCat

Since you unvoted.

[Junpei]

Farside: I'll respond to your questions either later tonight or tomorrow, I want to give that FC point detail.

I want the cop to investigate Iknal easily. I can catch scum that is posting, but not if they don't post. If somehow we didn't lynch FC today then I'd want him investigated.

[Junpei]

Farside: FatCat case:

Doesn't want to talk about players other than DLG: This is troubling for two reasons: 1) It's anti-scumhunting and unproductive 2) It really contradicts his later actions

I'm going to bundle all of the Mountainous stuff into one point here. Doesn't make sense because 1) It should have been obvious on multiple fronts we weren't all VTs 2) If he thought it was mountainous, he would have had a different tone to his VT claim 3) He also would have attacked Deltabacon 4) This post by me sums up the contradiction which I don't think FatCat explained away well. The tone of the second post doesn't correlate to his explanation

See the bottom of my post

why my post that had one example from a game I played 6 months ago was enough to find me scummy?

Clarify please.

Can you explain why you think I'm dumb scum in your view that I would fall for what you called buzz word tells that only scum use?

Well I mean town also used OMGUS, but being a good town player you would know the flaws of some tells and how easy it is for town to commit those flaws. So you can use them to make it easier to attack townies. That's why really - easier to use to lynch. I never thought you were dumb scum.

Kublai Khan: Welcome to the game.

[Junpei]

@Jun: I'm trying to understand why you took one post from 6 months ago as a tell.

Oh - Because

Her most recent evaluation of the OMGUS tell...

Also 6 months doesn't seem like a long time to me when it comes to mafia theory, though I think that I saw the first quote and your words and had a quick "Contradiction scum slip" reaction.

[Junpei]

Plus the fact that when I pointed out I was a hydra in another game that I called out scum using the term OMGUS and Jun doesn't bat an eye, instead trying to make it see that being a hydra is no proof, but if you looked you saw I posted in the game as farside.

..?
Once you showed me the hydra game, I changed my vote. It's evidence of your opinion which so closely resembles doublethink right now only resembling doublethink in the past. I don't know how you justify your stance on this but I can only assume that we are having somewhere a disagreement in terminology.

I never said that being a hydra is no proof - I only said that 1) How would I have found a hydra game (you told me why) and 2) That I didn't do my own research for reasons I outlined.

[Junpei]

Kublai Khan: Go more in depth on the Slaxx scum theory.

[Junpei]

@Kublai Khan

Your Slaxx case..

1) Not convincing

2) Depends on Slaxx's response

3) Those posts had some content in them, at least. I don't remember Slaxx not contributing/scumhunting at all - I particularly remember scumhunting at the beginning of his replace-in. But I'll reread later to check.

Lets iron out this Slaxx case a bit and then kill FatCat.

[Junpei]

Junpei - don't you think it's better to wait for Slaxx and KK to talk it over before commenting and stuff?
anywho I have thoughts on the slaxx stuff too but not now.

I stayed vague for that purpose.

Who the hell is kitty?

[Junpei]

Ellibereth: RE: Research... I think it's very unethical to do what I think you did to do your "research". Keep everything within the game, please. If I'm right about what you did we can discuss it in MD after the game, but given how this site tends to behave, I think you'd be in the minority.

[Junpei]

Also looking over Kublai Khan's catch up post, here's a summary:

Mass claim rant
Really poor town/scum reads (not attacking accuracy, rather quality)
Unexplained investigation purposals

Kublai Khan: How did Slaxx get ahead of the story?

This Slaxx case by the way is a work of bad.

Bump Kublai Khan to the definite top of my "cop investigate please" list and add him to my scummy list.

[Junpei]

Slaxx: What was your main reason(s) for not wanting a mass claim when you said what you quoted in 460?

pedit: Yes, there is little reasoning so they aren't valuable insight and are thus low in quality. Yes there is a correlation of medium town reads being investigated - but you'd think that if the cop investigations meant anything to him he'd say something like "I'd like X Y or Z investigated because they will screw us later in the game if scum because they'd be difficult to catch". See how that gives a reason and incentive to actually investigate those people? Compare that to "X Y and Z". Deltabacon isn't just going to add up the tallies (I hope).

[Junpei]

did farsight comment on the idea of massclaim prior to it actually happening
going through her iso tires me out.

No. This took me literally 21 seconds to figure out after going "cntrl+F" and putting "claim" into the query. Your laziness is very annoying - why do you want this information?

[Junpei]

Okay, heads up - in life you'll find that things are actually a lot easier if you just do it. They aren't as hard as they seem.

I found this post http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4129043 Which is where farside claims.

I lightly read backwards and no where does she talk about claiming. It took 2 minutes.

[Junpei]

Okay, now can you explain why those reasons were ignored later? (@Slaxx)

pedit: It took fucking 2 minutes max. Also yeah it's strange but I don't know what to make of it which is why I asked. What's the scum motive? Why does it indicate scum? I guess we could..

@Farside: Why did you not comment on mass claim prior to claiming?

[Junpei]

Sunday parties? You have tonight and yesterday night do that!

I'm engaging in the only line of questioning i have for you right now, Slaxx.

[Junpei]

ANYWAY REASONS THAT ITS BAD JUNPEI:
As I mentioned: If there's a tracker, there are so many disadvantages for them to claim early:
1. Can't gather Innos
2. Even less likely to catch scum because they can choose who makes kill
3. They can get roleblocked

Other problems:
1 . The prot role I figured we had would be outted
2. If it is cop, watcher, etc they could be RBed if there is one

Slaxx: Why did the worry of a tracker go away? Why did the worry of protection roles getting outed go away? Why did the worry of a roleblocker go away?

[Junpei]

So you ignored the reasons to not claim because of the potential to clear him or to have evidence to his guilt? Eh... that's really borderline to what I think is a reasonable thought process. But I can believe it from you. No sense in discussing it further, have a good sleep.

Farside: Why would scum ever reread? Why wouldn't scum just use their uninformed viewpoint from the follow-along? In light of those questions, I can buy Slaxx's rationale.

[Junpei]

I guess I just don't see why it is suspicious. I don't see anything in any of Slaxx's posts which suggests he changed his view in the way you're describing. Why is Slaxx's explanation not likely? (@Farside)

[Junpei]

Farside: I can't explain why he has a town read on FatCat. Slaxx, can you?

[Junpei]

This is just nit-picky nonsense and somewhat insulting to Deltabacon. "Oh, I know Ellibereth knew what Khan meant and I knew what Khan meant, but Deltabacon is pretty dumb and might do something dumb like straight-up tallying up town's suspects".

Not at all what I said.

Deltabacon: claim your report in your very first post.

vote Kublai Khan

unless his report implicates someone or exonerates Kublai (which is very doubtful). Other reasons to vote Kublai may be found below (note that while the volume isn't very high, it hits almost all of his posts.:

read this post
stretching and deflecting
Slaxx case is so poor it has to be forced

It's a tough call. I think Slaxx is pretty much scum, but FatCat has played so horribly as town or scum that he can't be read. He's intentionally broken every rule for some reason I can't fathom. His reads are horrible and his play is worse. He's too scummy to be scum, but my mind can't process that fallacy.

So FatCat is today's lynch.

How is this not Kublai going "Well I think X is scum, but FatCat is a VI, so lets lynch him"? Not to mention that FatCat was by far the easiest lynch when you compare it to a possible Slaxx wagon.

Reaction checking. Trying to see who sees what I see. Slaxx is getting ahead of the story though, which is the scum reaction.

On review, go more in depth into what different reactions you hoped to achieve from not spilling the Slaxx case up front.

Also, Iknal really didn't do much but lurk and replace out, and the content he did generate wasn't very helpful and left questions which were never answered.

Farside: That hammer was bad - ending the day early like that did nothing but stop discussion. Kublai made a post that could have been responded to by various people, others could have posted, and telling Ellibereth that "too bad you didn't post earlier your fault" is NOT an excuse for not allowing someone who we thought even day 1 was the likely night kill to post because of your hammer. I could also vote Farside.

[Junpei]

Is there anything you don't like about my Slaxx case besides "It's poor!" and "It's bad!"? Because neither of those are compelling reasons for me to change my mind.

..So you don't care if your reasons for voting are awful? Interesting.

Also you can ignore the rest of my points (because they're unarguably scummy) and say that it was right to policy lynch FatCat over a mafia suspect, but that is flat out bandwagoning the easy lynch.

Things like "Are you using your Process of Elimination to eliminate your partner from suspicion?" are a great example of your scumminess. You have already decided that Slaxx is scum (or rather, that you're going to say that Slaxx is scum) and are (as Slaxx said) fitting the mold to that idea. If you were to look at the piece you quoted objectively you'd see that it makes perfect sense when aligned with everything else Slaxx has said this game.

[Junpei]

Wow.

First off - Slaxx calm down. Either you're fear mongering with AtE or you're head is not in the right place. If you need to take a break from the game for a night do so because you're getting angry and it's not going to help.

Second of all: Can someone make a in order Slaxx case with all the details against Slaxx in it? Bullet points with links to relevant evidence. I can't understand Farside's post fully and the missing posts in between the quotes is going to drive me crazy so Kublai Khan why don't you do this?

Slaxx: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4141552 <-- That's Kublai Khan's post with a read of Farside in it

[Junpei]

Also Slaxx, Kublai Khan is at L-2, so your vote would be L-1. Who is going to quickhammer? Psyche? Non-existent DLG? Definitely not Farside.

[Junpei]

Honestly Junpei, idk how you could call my last post fearmongering and totally ignore KK's "you're trying to divide and conquer us by asking for a single read" schtick.

I was referring to your whole overreaction to the attacks on you. You definitely can't say that less than 24hours into the day that people are tunneling or ignoring other suspects and hellbent on getting you lynched irregardless of others. That's paranoia, hyperbole, and maybe even confirmation bias.

Kublai is a bit of a fool I agree - And I am going to ask you why his read on Farside in the post I linked to is insufficient. As for Kublai's "you're trying to get us to turn on each other" thing, that's actually not complete bs. I've seen scum do similar things before. I think it's premature to say that you were doing that, but I see where he's coming from.

[Junpei]

Psyche: Are you planning to do anything useful? When is that analysis coming?

[Junpei]

Just to list out what we're waiting for..

1. Psyche to do something/analysis (it's getting to the trying not to rustle bushes level of not doing crap)

2. Slaxx to rebuttal once more (I really hope this will be productive and not drown the game with quote walls so hopefully good judgement)

3. Kublai Khan to post a bullet case on Slaxx (at this point I still can't imagine a reality where we don't lynch Kublai Khan but I'll hear him out)

[Junpei]

Farside: Have you already forgotten? Are you really reading? This is the nth time that you've asked me to say something I've already said.

His responses have been unconvincing, for reference.

[Junpei]

Farside: Have you already forgotten? Are you really reading? This is the nth time that you've asked me to say something I've already said.

His responses have been unconvincing, for reference.

The short version is that it is just your opinion on things and calling a case crap that makes him scum.

Wow

Wait... you mean that scumhunting involves opinions?

Innovation.

I'd like to see evidence of Slaxx having a scum read on DLG pregame, no longer having it at some point after the reread, and then having a scum read on DLG later for reasons available before the reread.

[Junpei]

Alright, the only issue I have is that Slaxx did explain DLGs' positioning on the scum list here. I do see the backing off of the DLG read though.

Okay, I'm going to review Kublai's 3/4 on my own and I want..

Slaxx: Explain your lack of voting please.

[Junpei]

1) Slaxx said that other people got more town, which left DLG lower.

Though DLG becoming the most town out of a set of people like that is definitely suspicious.

BUT the KK/farside paring is because there's no EXCLUSION of the pair. Slaxx was doing exclusions. I'm starting to see parts of the Slaxx case now. I still want a few things answered but I could be willing to compromise Slaxx depending on replacement activity, Slaxxs' response, and my reflections on the case as a whole.

I contend though that your case on Slaxx is just as much opinion as my case on Kublai Khan is, and it's ridiculous for you to dismiss it like that.

pedit: There's some good news.

Tammy claim in your next post, a dayvig is about to shoot you.

[Junpei]

Just to make sure she sees:

Tammy: Claim your role in your next post - we're going to dayvig your slot but we want a claim first

[Junpei]

Yeah there was a very small chance that'd work, but it was worth it. Go on with your read, pay close attention to the mass claim and how people react to it.

[Junpei]

Tammy: Why did you claim?

[Junpei]

Slaxx: Explain your lack of voting please.

Have you done this one yet Slaxx? If so could you link it for me?

[Junpei]

I'm vanilla don't care about claiming. :shrug:

That's an awful policy if true. Now I have to go look at your previous games/posts...

[Junpei]

Yep, thought so.
Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

I figured I'd test it out. If the scum already know who's not on their team, and they don't know my alignment then there's no problem with claiming VT. Why fuss about it?

For one thing, it narrows down the pool. You want to be night killed when you're a VT. You should be trying to draw it so that the power roles don't get hit. You've just made the pool smaller. By advertising that you don't have a role, you've just made it more likely that someone with a role could be hit. The less information scum have, the better it is for town.

Want to explain this?

pedit: You aren't stupid... you didn't even read to make sure I was telling the truth?

[Junpei]

Tammy: Claim your role in your next post

I'm vanilla don't care about claiming. :shrug:

This makes it read like you didn't claim because you were vanilla.

[Junpei]

Go do your reread Tammy. Implying a scumread on me without reason whilst appealing to emotion isn't getting you anywhere with me. You were much more careful in GvE LvC if I recall.

[Junpei]

Junpei -

PFFFFTTTTTT!!!!! Fake Dayvig's are lame.

Though make it good. And Quick. I would hate to waste some time reading 24 pages to find out that Slaxx is scum.

Wait whut?

I don't know who's scum...I only read your post Junpei. Are you scum?

Although your point #1 is accurate...I'm the DLG spot right? Town.

I have a couple things to do then I'll read the thread and post here.

Wait...are you really asking me to claim? Have you guys massed already?

I put lines which imply doubt of my dayvig claim in bold. I underlined a completely out of line statement. Why were you addressing who you thought were scum before reading anything? Why attack me like that?

[Junpei]

Posts that imply you think I'm scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4155589
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p4155653
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4155660

AtE:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4155660

pedit: ...That explanation I can accept.
pedit2: I have been told I don't have a sense of humor but please don't assume that people can recognize sarcasm in text. I'm fine with dropping it because your explanation makes perfect sense to me but in the future, sarcasm tags would be appreciated.

[Junpei]

Stop spamming. It's unhelpful, makes the game harder to read, and will make life harder on possible future replacements (though this playerlist looks solid and I doubt we'll have any) as well as people who fall behind (like Psyche).

Just finish your work and then afterwards read the thread and post thoughts please. You're funny and everything but this game has been very tidy overall when it comes to spam and you're ruining it.

[Junpei]

My comments about Slaxx is not just one post and not liking what is stated. It's an accumulation of actions and comment made thoughout the game that do not add up. That is the difference between opinion and game relations.

My comments on Kublai Khan are also not just one post and not just not liking what is stated. Kublai Khan had cognitive dissonance and was opportunistic.

For those not reading the game or giving a shit. Why post 508 from Slaxx is a complete lie and misrepresentation:

Mass claim ended post 269 (june 18)
Hammer vote is post 504 (june 24)

6 days later and over 200 post later, no vote from Slaxx = just excuses, lies and blame.

Slaxx: It's kinda important to me that you respond to this post.

[Junpei]

Stop spamming. It's unhelpful, makes the game harder to read, and will make life harder on possible future replacements (though this playerlist looks solid and I doubt we'll have any) as well as people who fall behind (like Psyche).

Just finish your work and then afterwards read the thread and post thoughts please. You're funny and everything but this game has been very tidy overall when it comes to spam and you're ruining it.

Also, why are you criticizing when you know my posting style? You pulled up a quote of mine from GvE. Did you think I wouldn't remember how you played there either? Big difference Junpei...big difference.

I remember long posts with detailed analysis... and emotion which was irritating. I don't remember spammy posting that isn't productive.

If you have reason to suspect me let me know so I can clear it up, if you read the game you should know everyones' reads. That alone should get rid of a few of your posts.

pedit: ...PLEASE don't spam when you catchup. Can't you just read everything and post in the end?

[Junpei]

Wait so rainbowdash have you read the whole game yet?

[Junpei]

Tammy:

These were the inconsistent reads - he had a set of reads which I said at the time were inconsistent with each other. That is to say, that I felt he had reads at the same time which were contradictory.

Who the heck meta's someones' alignment based off one alignment? Before you reference my "meta" of you, the difference is that you posted a theory stance in that game which initially appeared to disagree with your stance here.

Only when people are chronically lurking and saying "I'm busy!". Particularly, I was looking for another game to /in for, and his was almost an option.

This is where you appealed to emotion:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4155660

I claimed dayvig immediately because in such a small setup with few scum, you might claim PR to save yourself. There was zero harm in doing it. It's certainly not suspicious to reaction test someone, but go ahead with your insane confirmation bias crusade.

[Junpei]

1.

lolgic

DLG: How is this slot I quoted null-town when Deltabacon is scum for avoiding game content by posting but not posting anything which could be read as any alignment? That's exactly what Ellibereth did here.

2. I completely don't understand what you're saying, are you agreeing with me?

3. Honestly when I reread that post I don't see the AtE I saw last night. But when I said emotional posts I meant something else that I don't feel like bringing up right now.

4. Tammy - everything you have posted in regards to my suspicion has read post-decision. You read through the game and found reasons to call me scum, even when you hadn't explained why you felt I was scum in the first place. I say this because the posts you pointed out calling me scum not only are few in number, but also are erroneous. It looked like you aren't reading my posts carefully, rather reading them from a mindset that is 100% expecting me to say something suspicious.

I'd like evidence that suggests I am more interested in making people look suspicious so I can mislynch them if you got it, seeing as every other point you've made has been exhausted.

pedit: Really rainbowdash (can I just call you Llama?)... Okay well for the third time here's my Kublai Khan case from the start of the day: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4149590

[Junpei]

What is your read on Slaxx though and why, lets say if I was to come out with Delta just was playing some elaborate gambit and got an innocent on KK and ive been testing the waters all day if that would change anything.

Slaxx is town leaning scum. I remember towny scumhunting which makes him look well town. On the scum spectrum he's leaning because of a few points against him I like. However, as with Tammy, many of the points against Slaxx I can't endorse.

I don't do townhunting though - I look for mafia.

[Junpei]

Rainbowdash: Slaxx is a town read right now - but there are aspects of his play that are suspicious.

Tammy: First things first: I don't know your playstyle that well. If you want to keep playing this game then recall GvE CvL and how I replaced in and how I lurked for quite a bit and slowly found my ground and reads. I didn't interact with a lot of the game till later.

1. It's page THREE!

2. Okay - I saw you hold a ridiculous stance at first glance, and went to look into your games to see if you made it up or not on the spot. The stance you took seemed so wrong to me at first glance that I felt for sure you were lying. You later explanation did not come to mind.

4. I maintain that your posts look like stretching to call me scum, and there's no reason to argue that point with you obviously. List reasons I'm a scumread before this conversation that you still think are fully valid.

Obviously you can't have confirmation bias on every single read. I didn't expect you to be joking around... I still don't like the sarcasm and joking culture that is growing in mafia games. I thought you were serious. I then logically came to the conclusion that there should be no reason why you have that read - but I initially thought you to be the type of player I really respect (logical, serious, thorough) so I thought that you would have a response.

[Junpei]

Good then we agree it's not that important.

What? You're changing the subject. The point was that you called me scummy for saying that it was scummy to have inconsistent reads. Don't dance around the topic - you were wrong on your suspicion of me. And knowing you I'm going to have to say the same thing once you make your "case".

You need to hurry up and vote Kublai Khan. Your townread on Iknal makes no sense and neither is your nullread on Kublai Khan.

Maybe it's just a playstyle thing, so I'm going to be a dick and

demand

that she just make a concise bulleted point post of reads.

Oops. I don't follow demands. I was actually going to do this later after I iso'd, but meh, my stubborn button has been triggered. I'll get to it eventually.

[Junpei]

Sigh.. why did DLG have to replace out..

When I said "knowing you.." I was referring to an arrogant [redacted].

This is like when someone starts attacking someone for something stupid in RVS and you go "LOL WTF THAT'S NOTHING BIG!". YOU said:

"Bullshit! Inconsistent reads show a sign of someone who changes their mind based on new posts not faulty lines of thought. It is absolutely faulty to think that mafia do this kind of crap. Mafia are less likely because they typically re-read what they write to make sure these things are missing. Inconsistency is actually a town tell. (Slaxx will probably disagree with me on this because he said a post of mine in another game was stupid regarding contradictions, but whatever)."

You attacked the validity of my attack. I expressed that it was a valid attack, and you concurred with me with the disclaimer that it wasn't important. A contradiction of that level is important enough to note and I believe that it is a scum tell. I will argue in MD if you want after the game but you trying to throw dirt on me for thinking having contradictory reads is a scumtell is crazy. What's even worse is your "it's not worth those STRONG FEELINGS". I had strong enough feelings to keep voting him on page 4.

What's the matter, are you nervous that I'm going to attack you with old DLG scumpoints? You're quick to discredit anything against your slot and label me scummy for attacking it. Your tone and attitude is annoying me which is doubly upsetting because this game was calm and mature previously.

[Junpei]

Yes that's fine if you want to attack the validity of my attack - but you 1) tried to spin it as a scumtell on me (you're not so bad that you think that it isn't common to think that contradictory reads are scummy are you?) 2) Acted as if it were some massive point on my part when in reality it was a page 4 tell which I still credit but I haven't been parading it around.

How about you hurry up and catch up and post your reads. And hey, where's the case on me? Does that still even exist?

I'd like evidence that suggests I am more interested in making people look suspicious so I can mislynch them if you got it, seeing as every other point you've made has been exhausted.

Also it's cool that you ignored this, proving that you were just using bullshit buzzphrases.

[Junpei]

I think Iknal was townish, but I dont really have that read carried over by KK that much which is a bit concerning.

Go into more detail?

pedit: 1) It's fine you disagree with me - but town can disagree and calling me scum for disagreeing with you on a theory level is pathetic

2) There's a difference between using a buzzword for the effect and using one to convey a point which you are adequately explaining. Kinda like how you ignored that thing I quoted in 676 when you used a buzzphrase.

3) I have no issues with people who have scumreads on me - and once again I don't know you, stop acting like people who play games with you remember you much at all. You're annoying me on a personal level with your attitude and tone. That's why you get insults.

[Junpei]

1) So you're attacking me for my method of scumhunting. lol that's all I needed to hear carry on.

2) It's not the fact that you think I'm scum that annoys me (look probably in this game, I don't get upset when people accuse me), it's your tone and your attitude toward this game. Here are some facts:

You have 44 posts in 25 hours
Here's a recap of my expereince with you this game:

Spam
When asked to not spam, spammed more
Starting making snide comments like:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4155668
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4155674

I guess I expected you to act mature and you remind me of a 7 year old with ADHD. It's like I've been enjoying this nice game, and you just run onto my lawn where the picnic is being held and run around and won't stop talking. Everything is too stream of conscious and too not serious. Then when addressing your suspicion on me in a formal fashoin, you use buzzphrases you can't back up with evidence and what you've said about it is irrational and I can't rationalize it from a town point of view. I'm further frustrated because I don't know how much of me thinks you're scum and how much thinks you're just annoying.

pedit: You said that it was scummy to suspect someone for the reasons I did. That my theory-belief in a tell was more likely to come from scum. But I dont' even care anymore, no one else is going to buy that crap and you'll get over it.

I quoted my request here:http://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist.p ... le&u=16276 which was in response to a buzzphrase you made.

I hardly remember you - I remember a logical thorough calm person and that's all. I felt very sure that, based off that image, that you wouldn't believe that VTs should claim whenever. I never said that I didn't remember ANYTHING about your play. I don't see how the hell I'd know you "don't get scared" though, that's just so weird to remember. Hey Tammy, did you know that one of my favorite authors is Douglas Hofstadter? No?

Weird

..

Anyway, I'm not going to stoop to your level anymore. From this point on, I will refer to you calmly and you'll do the same to me and not spam/act snobby. This anger is counterproductive.

[Junpei]

You don't seem like someone who is trying to determine the alignment of other people, but like someone who is trying to make others look suspicious so you can mislynch them.

Lets see some examples.

Also I remembered few things about that game:

1) I thought you were calm - I remembered the wall posts, seriousness, and analysis at the end of the game when the town I was in had already won.

2) I thought you were emotional - I remembered having to ask you to come back later or go to sleep and respond to my point later. I remember thinking you were emotional for some reason.

I remembered what I felt were sweeping personalities, I definitely am not going to remember that you don't get worried easily.

I apologize if I said anything rude to you - it ends now because I'm putting my personal feelings behind me so everyone can focus.

Once again: I did not know of any specific stance you made which contradicting your VT claim. I only knew of what I thought was a near universal opinion of sitemeta (VTs don't blissfully claim) and I knew that I didn't think you were a VI. So, I went looking for an example of this site meta from your own mouth.

P.S. You can count on a blue moon each day that someone who isn't my scumread gets lynched, after the game we can flex our win rates at each other too but honestly it means nothing.

~Junpei

Psyche you almost done catching up?

[Junpei]

Good.

Then comment on stuff.

Short commentary on things going on in general, how certain interactions feel/seem. Something that you have to commit on. You've read it all so you should be fine in giving initial thoughts and opinions real quick.

[Junpei]

As much as I disagree with Tammy post 667, I see her point. I think her points are more null, then a town mind set.
Lots of what she's basing her thoughts on is what she thinks scum would act, but it's not proven theory as I have seen scum behave the same way.
mmmmm the smell of newb still wet behind the ears, optimist, not paranoid and figuring things out is my impression of her at this point.

You need to hurry up and vote Kublai Khan. Your townread on Iknal makes no sense and neither is your nullread on Kublai Khan.

Why are you in a hurry to end this day especially after (1) giving me shit for hammering 2 days before deadline and (2) when conversation is still at hand?


Also I decided after reading some shitty comments from Junpei toward Tammy I decided to tune the rest of the back and forth off.
Seriously Jun some of those comments were unnecessary. There is no need to be a snotty jerk.

1) I didn't mean to say "lets end this day already!", I meant what I said in the sense of "can you vote kublai khan? Why aren't you voting Kublai Khan?" with a hyperbole at the end. I wrote it as if to imply that you should be voting Kublai Khan.

2) I already said I'll be more calm/less snotty.

@Junepi - Can you give me a concise read on Tammy?

While I was arguing with her it felt like she was going through scum territory, but if I take a step back and look again I think that she's town. I favor several realities about her posting which would imply town than scum and I don't see anything that really perks my ears either. It should be enough to say that I noticed a thought process or two which is laid out through her posting which makes less sense as scum.

[Junpei]

@Junepi - Can you give me a concise read on Tammy?

While I was arguing with her it felt like she was going through scum territory, but if I take a step back and look again I think that she's town. I favor several realities about her posting which would imply town than scum and I don't see anything that really perks my ears either. It should be enough to say that I noticed a thought process or two which is laid out through her posting which makes less sense as scum.

Lets make it interesting then... who is KKs partner?

Farside, with a chance of Psyche.

Farside: Okay, yes. I wanted Tammy to put Kublai Khan at L-1 because I thought someone else would actually come along and hammer. Lets go with that.

[Junpei]

@Jun - Can you give me a case on why farside is scummy?

I'd rather just focus on one at a time but I can outline issues I have had for you tomorrow. Today there's really no time for me to do so.

Farside: It wasn't meant to be taken literally. I gave my response and you clearly aren't accepting. I clearly can't convince you so stop pretending to post content by dragging this on further. Also Slaxx clearly stated "more tomorrow" meaning that he's aware he didn't hit everything there, making your latest post mostly useless.

[Junpei]

Okay, I'm going to go to the gym in 20-30 minutes for 60-70 minutes and then I'll come home, grab some food and write up the farside summary. And... apparently respond to the case against me.

[Junpei]

Alright I'm home.

Rainbowdash: RE the case:
1) My rationale was this: I think that mass claiming day 1 in a game reviewed by CES and Spyrex (read as: experienced and know a broken setup) which was advertised as scumhunting geared was and is a bad idea. However, I also recognized that I was the only one who felt that way. Instead of grinding on a chalkboard and being the only one to not claim, I decided to go with it and try to keep order (see: me telling DLG to claim next and then I think it was Slaxx who did what I was trying to prevent and broke the chain) to make it at least efficient. Also, as I was reading my notes on Farside, I came across a post where it is said that Farside did not mention claiming prior to doing so herself. Anything to say about that?

2) So you think that because I (and everyone else in the game besides you) thought that FatCat was very suspicious for reasons that you thought he was town that I am scum (this isn't your only reason but it is a factor)? I think it's more likely that you are suffering from retrospect syndrome. Did you know FatCat was town before you started reading through the pages?

3)What? I meant that the quality of Kublai Khans reads were poor. That is to say, that his reads were very lacking in acceptable reasoning.

Tammy: Do you have a certain part of my town read on you that you'd like me to clarify? I usually am very good in my grammar and English, but sometimes I am tired I suppose. I agree, clarity is important, so how about trying to clarify what isn't clear?

Also: On saturday Iknal had zero content posts. He has 3 content posts over 3 days, landing on the first and second. Also the game lasted much longer than those three days. I don't know any better term than lurker to describe that, do you?

Issues with Farside in my notes:

Stretches this point hard
I address the issue with this in my next post, but the 1st 2nd and 3rd points issues are what I find suspicious about Farside

A general lack of reading the game closely/remembering things about the game

I don't like how long it took for the OMGUS to get sorted out and I still don't understand the reasoning fully
Bad hammer

[Junpei]

1) I explained my reasons why I think the way I think. Not a stretch if you read it.
2) This is vague. Explains nothing about why it's suspicious.....ooooooooo I made a case with reasoning that is soooo fucking suspicious how dare I.
3) Busy, multiple things going on with the move, plus if you ever really played with me before it's pretty normal because I'm doing more then just one thing at a time.
4) Why is this even scummy? Are you ever going to explain it?
5) Explained my reasons for hammer. You never stated a problem again. Please explain how it's a bad hammer when (1) I already stated intent to vote FC (2) it was 2 days before deadline not a week like some people are acting like and (3) the fact that if I live past the 17th of July it will be near impossible to difficult to stay in the game.

1) Disagree.

2) 1) You ignored posts I made and selectively quoted to make it appear like you had a valid point.
2) This is part of 3: Ignoring what was already said and not remembering anything
3) Stretching once more. Specifically, took a scum read I had and turned it into a reason I am scum (I clearly had a scum read on DLG). I also find it hilarious that one of Farsides' posts here is saying I defended FatCat so I'm scum and another saying I suspected FatCat so I'm scum.

3) I think that it happens too often. I think you could be faking forgetfulness to make everything more confusing.

4) You had a post which seems to push away the tell... however it didn't come out till much later. It seems to me like you were grasping at everything behind the scenes and finally found something. You criticize me (and Psyche) for not looking at games that you hydra'd in, but you didn't immediately do such. I think that for something that could have immediately been shot down it took too much effort.

5) I forgot about the 17th of july thing. I don't like that defense but I will drop this point in light of that because I think it is compellingly valid.

[Junpei]

Rainbowdash: The thought process is what is most important. The ends do not justify the means.

If I have to move my vote then

vote Farside

; with less than a week left I suppose we should be consolidating our votes, and the Kublai wagon has actually been getting less attractive to everyone over time it seems.

I need to look to see who everyone is willing to vote.

[Junpei]

Quick questions: Is DLG, DGB? If not, why does Junpei want someone to refer to DLG as DGB.

Also, why does he keep referring to deltabacon as deltawave? Are they the same person too?

I know deltawave and got them mixed up. I meant to say don't refer to DLG as DGB, but typod.

This isn't a change of thought process, this is doublethink.

I love how Tammy says I'm scum because I think that some things are scum tells that she thinks are town tells. You like useless meta right? Go research me. I have about 4000 posts you can go see if in any of them I take a different stance on this than I do here. Spoiler alert: I won't.

My slaxx read (which I now realize I've completely put on a back burner since you replaced in - I'll have to review everything again) changes over time. If there are points that I find valid I'll say so. At that time I was stating my progress with reviewing Slaxx. Also you should know that for me, a town read doesn't mean a whole lot. For instance, I have a town read on you - but then if you were to commit some mafia tells, it wouldn't matter to me that you were a town read. See: My policy on town tells v scum tells. (inb4 tammy calls me mafia for a theory disagreement again)

My reaction to you replacing in is not at all suspicious. You are just summarizing the events and calling them suspicious without explaining WHY it's suspicious. Oh wait, it's "not a town perspective". Why? Because you said so? Because you know me so well from one game where I lurked and derped around for a while because the reason I joined it was to be nice?

Farside: What if not voting me would cause your death? Would you still not vote me?

2(1): What? Where?
2(2): Forgetting things that were recently told to you and forgetting events from a few months ago are different things.
2(3): You ignroed my scum read on DLG, and said that the fact I defended and not attacked FatCat made me scummy, but also said that I was attacking FatCat as an attribute of your attack.

3) I think that the level of forgetfulness (short term and long term memory loss) is MORE LIKELY to come from scum. If only scum did it then everyone would be voting you.

4) If you yourself didn't think to look at your games then how can you attack me and Psyche for not looking at your hydra games?

I need to go get ready for something irl (I've been doing homework a lot yesterday whenever I was home, so sorry for not posting). Should be done with that soon and then I'll read through Kublai Khan's Tammy case and comment on everything.

[Junpei]

Tammy: Do you have anything you'd like to isolate which shows that Kublai Khan is deliberately misrepresenting you or not caring about your alignment?

[Junpei]

Farside. I assumed that you would interject if Psychs' research wasn't comprehensive enough. I trust Psyches' research abilities because of what he has done in MD. I'm really shocked that you're so upset over this.

I already answered the second question Farside.

As for forgetfulness - scum would pretend to forget things to slow down scumhunting, to make things unclear, to blur what is going on. I don't know how many instances it has been, but you just did it again as shown by the above quote.

[Junpei]

vote Kublai Khan

No reason to not condense my vote there instead.

MOD: Is there any chance of a deadline extension re: replacement?

[Junpei]

vote Kublai Khan

Hm. Strange, bbcode didn't work for some reason.

[Junpei]

i'm for lynching farside

unvote, vote: farside

I guess the obvious question is why are you voting Farside?

[Junpei]

EXCEPT look at KK's most recent post. He wants roflcopter to iso HIM and then give feedback on his cases on Slaxx and me. When I'm town and I make a case on someone and I want someone's opinion on something, whether they just replaced in or not, I don't ask them to iso me and then give feedback on the case. I ask them to iso the person, read my case and give feedback. But, that's because as town I'm interested in an honest opinion. I'm interested in them reading their iso and seeing if they see what I see or if I'm wrong in my assertions. KK doesn't care.

Okay so don't get me wrong - I definitely think Kublai Khan is scum and want you to vote him. But I feel compelled to point out the utter bullshit (excuse my language) that this paragraph is.

Also Kublai Khan is a stronger scumread than Farside.

[Junpei]

Also I asked roflcopter why he voted farside not because I couldn't imagine why someone would vote farside, but because I wanted to hear his thought process. If we don't know his reasons, we can't evaluate him.

[Junpei]

EXCEPT look at KK's most recent post. He wants roflcopter to iso HIM and then give feedback on his cases on Slaxx and me. When I'm town and I make a case on someone and I want someone's opinion on something, whether they just replaced in or not, I don't ask them to iso me and then give feedback on the case. I ask them to iso the person, read my case and give feedback. But, that's because as town I'm interested in an honest opinion. I'm interested in them reading their iso and seeing if they see what I see or if I'm wrong in my assertions. KK doesn't care.

Okay so don't get me wrong - I definitely think Kublai Khan is scum and want you to vote him. But I feel compelled to point out the utter bullshit (excuse my language) that this paragraph is.

Also Kublai Khan is a stronger scumread than Farside.

How is it bullshit? If you really care about your case being accurate and others having an accurate view, you should be asking them to iso them and then your case, not you. That's ridiculous to call that bullshit. Cases are always written from the case writer's point of view, which means it's inherently biased. It can't not be. It's the same way that history books are not compiled of just facts, no matter how much historians try to peddle it so, because it's always written from someone's (usually the victor's) point of view.

Also, why if KK was a stronger scum read did you change to Farside before. Why not stay on KK and push that case if it's stronger?

1) The ideology which makes what Kublai Khan did bad is not exactly objectively correct. For instance the idea that you have to ISO X before reading a case on X in order to critique the case. I would argue that you don't need to do that.

2) Rainbowdash said that it was time to consolidate votes, and I looked and he was right, I was the only one voting Kublai Khan, but I wouldn't be the only one voting Farside, my second scum read. With little time left in the day and the Kublai Khan wagon dying down, I switched.

[Junpei]

So, on one hand with have this massive back and forth between Kublai Khan and Tammy which is probably all rhetoric and recollection without any real points, and on the other hand we have my Kublai Khan supsicion (along with Tammy's) which has gone mostly avoided by Kublai Khan. He never convinced me out of anything really from the start and it's just being swept under a rug with this wall posting and back and forths with Farside/Tammy.

I'll read 34 more carefully, but I don't see roflcopter posting anywhere. Wasn't he supposed to post today?

We have about 49 hours left. I hope you all realize this. There isn't much more time to drool around and not vote left.

Kublai Khan: No one is voting Tammy with you, face it and vote yourself.

[Junpei]

and on the other hand we have my Kublai Khan supsicion (along with Tammy's) which has gone mostly avoided by Kublai Khan.

I know that if I think that an attack on me has no merit then I let it slide and see how others react. If I think it's a genuine misunderstanding and/or the attacker is someone I strongly consider to be town, then I address it and get them back on track.

If me and farside22 are the two top wagons at deadline, then I'd vote for her to avoid a no-lynch. But I think there's plenty of time for people to consider my Tammy case. Failing that Slaxx is still a good lynch today, too.

So basically: you're saying that it's your "policy" to ignore suspicion of you. I COULD buy that you're just a poor player, but I don't think that even you could ignore cases on a fundamental level.

[Junpei]

Farside:

1) I'm not going to do extra work I feel is unnecessary (I really think that there was little threat in following Psyche's post for reasons already stated in several posts of mine).

2) Why aren't you voting Kublai Khan?

Kublai Khan is continuing to brush me off and him saying that Tammy was trying to cast suspicion as a way of seeing if Rainbowdash could get lynched or not is ridiculous in that everyone else had already assume Rainbowdash was town. There was no chance ever of Tammy getting that lynch even if she wanted to and that was obvious.

[Junpei]

Jesus christ.

36 hours left of the gameday.

ROFLCOPTER: IF YOU REFUSE TO POST DETAILED READS/CATCH UP THEN VOTE FOR KUBLAI KHAN. There are in fact several errors in his attack on Tammy and he is ignoring points put against him on purpose (and the points themselves are worthy of note). Is farside suspicious? Yes. Is Kublai Khan more suspicious? Yes.

People I expect to be voting Farside:
Slaxx
roflcopter
Kublai Khan

People I expect to be voting Kublai Khan:
Tammy
Junpei
Farside

Now - I think Rainbowdash is going to vote Kublai Khan, but you are currently (roflcopter) contributing a lynch in a huge way when you haven't (by all appearances) read the game much at all.

[Junpei]

Yeah im not reading all of that right now. If im alive tomorrow (yeah right) I will but when im not interested in lynching either of you in the present, you are either going to BOTH have to really shorten all of that up or its going to get skimmed/passed up by not only me but probably the rest of the game.

What? You're not interesting in lynching Kublai Khan or Tammy? Why not Kublai Khan? Why don't you seem to care too much what happens?

[Junpei]

Because you're more suspicious and the parts of that exchange which I've read closely look like you are on a smear campaign.

[Junpei]

Slaxx: What are the chances of you voting Kublai Khan?

pedit: How sure are you on Farside?

[Junpei]

@Slaxx - Gain town points by lynching Tammy.

This kinda feels town to me. As scum he would know I'm a mislynch, so selling my lynch to Slaxx as something that would gain him town points. I don't know...would scum actually do that?

I don't know, you tell me: Would mafia act like the person they're trying to lynch is mafia, or town?

No you know what, you're right, I would expect Kublai Khan as mafia to say something like: "Hey Slaxx, come lynch Junpei, he's town!".

Now, for a rhetorical question: Am I good at sarcasm/humor?

You unvoted Kublai Khan over paranoia which is ridiculous and underwhelming.

[Junpei]

Your logic is bad for a few reasons but I'm just going to ignore it because I know that it isn't a big deal and everyone else gets it.

Are you saying that you didn't consider you might be wrong before people you think are town/know are town suggested it? Town can't be wrong unless it's you (assuming you actually think you're town)?

What did you know about their reads on Kublai Khan now that you didn't know before?

[Junpei]

When did you find out about RainbowDashs' town read on Kublai Khan? Same for Slaxxs' read.

Who is more likely to be wrong: you, or some random townsperson?

[Junpei]

You are being fooled RD. How does anything KK has done seem likely to come from town? He's not interested in finding mafia. He's interested in mislynching.

My read on KK is mostly from Iknal who I saw as heavy town.

This quote embedded in this quote. In response to Rainbowdash saying Kublai Khan is a town read. You knew of Rainbowdash's read June 8. 3 days ago.

You didn't back off - you pressed the issue. Since then what has changed, other than the odds of Kublai Khan actually getting lynched going up?

[Junpei]

I don't know why you're giving me a hard time for caring about trying to get it right.

180s are not going to be assumed to come from town. I don't know why you're giving me even a second look for asking you to clarify the reasoning behind a very important possibly gamechanging action.

From what I can tell, he WAS talking out of his ass a lot (Kublai Khan was). Rainbowdash has admitted to not reading everything closely by the way. I'm not sure he could give an educated opinion yet on the back and forths.

[Junpei]

Alright, fair enough - just be aware of the time. 28 hours remain.

[Junpei]

1) Is it normal for you to believe in one post example from a player about meta?

Depends on the example and the issue. This question is very misleading.

Could you, for one final time, list the questions you want slaxx to answer and why you want him to answer them? I'm going to try to understand why you think that Slaxx could be scum one more time before the day ends.

[Junpei]

roflcopter: could you lay out detailed reads? You've done almost nothing.

[Junpei]

Eh - Farside will flip mafia. This would mean that she's confident her partner will survive through 3way lylo though. So I wonder who that could be.

At any rate, have fun at your last day of work. The last time I had a last day at work it was because I was fired because I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't even get my first pay check. Enjoy moving as well, because the last time I had to move things into a truck it was because my grandfather died and we were taking things out of his house for some reason.

Not good memories for me - thanks for making me relive them.

[Junpei]

My read on her is mafia - I have confidence in my conviction. Without confidence, you do what you do and waffle on everything. You can doubt yourself, I do all the time, but you have to come back with conviction anyway.

She could be laughing her ass off right now having fun with us, it is her last day of work after all and she's moving.

[Junpei]

My read on her is mafia - I have confidence in my conviction. Without confidence, you do what you do and waffle on everything. You can doubt yourself, I do all the time, but you have to come back with conviction anyway.

She could be laughing her ass off right now having fun with us, it is her last day of work after all and she's moving.

Hey if you really think I'm scum and not lying you willing to stop playing stop playing mafia for 6 months based on that "conviction" of a case you didn't stand by?

pfft

Are you asking me if I'm willing to be 6 months of playing on your alignment?

No, I'm not, because there is a chance that I'm wrong and it's a bet that I've already won or loss and thus have no future impact on. Those are always the worst bets to take.

[Junpei]

Learn to read already... you haven't been good at reading all game long and I must assume you're holding a bluff all game because you can't be this senile.

I said that I doubt myself all the time. I accept the fact that I could be wrong, and consider it every time I consider my read. That doesn't stop me from going with conviction when I make use of my read.

If you're town no one will care about what you say postgame because you self hammered. Grow up already you're acting worse than I did when I had my bout with tammy.

[Junpei]

Okay.

1) Kublai Khan still should be the target.

2) Slaxx are you willing to undergo interrogation (respond to points, questions)?

3) Same question to roflcopter as Tammy

4) Tammy: is it that the case is not convincing or that Slaxx's play other than the case is town?

[Junpei]

Tammy: I wanted to make a comment on everyone to get people talking out of the gate, I've seen days start out dead before.

Slaxx: You said yesterday that you would refuse to answer any questions regarding your play, I wanted to see if that was still your policy because I didn't want to waste time.

I'll go and make sure everything is covered later today.

[Junpei]

Alright, first off, I've posted this a few times on this site, but just to make it explicit in this game:

V/LA (no access) July 25-29

Slaxx:

who is scum if KK is town?

explain how it is you saw farside as scum with DLG (now tammy) but had the scum team as KK/farside? Will you ever explain why it is you have excuses for day 1 on why you never voted that were false?

why is farside not commenting on the massclaim suspicious?

[Junpei]

Slaxx could you reformat that post because I don't know what questions it's addressing.

[Junpei]

Anyone plan on doing anything?.... Unless the

Mod will grant a deadline extension due to my V/LA?

then I'm gone till deadline in a few days so it'd be a good time to discuss now rather than later.

[Junpei]

I'm going to do some ISO of Tammy.

Kublai Khan: I find it funny that you keep trying to push the idea that mafia would replace in and try to set up a rainbowdash lynch, or even the idea of one, after reading the game and seeing how invested everyone was into Rainbowdash being town.

[Junpei]

I'm really having trouble seeing myself to commit to a Tammy lynch now when I look over the things that Kublai Khan posted. There's too much rhetoric and I see too much stretching. It seems to be highly padded which gives me the impression that it is useless.

So while I didn't read Tammy's ISO word for word, I can see that Tammy seems to have a scumhunting thought process and with no field of wires being tripped that's enough for me to not consider Tammy today.

Today is my last day before deadline so I am willing to vote for Kublai Khan. I won't do so since I technically can be wrong, but that's who I plan to vote when I get back. If there are two wagons which aren't Kublai Khan that are tied, I"ll deal with that when I get to it. My second strongest read would have to be Slaxx.

[Junpei]

sweet i have a computer so I just read up. I believe it's rolfcopter and KK on Tammy and Tammy and Slaxx on Kublai Khan. I'm going to do some logic eliminations first and then I'm going to vote Kublai Khan.

roflcopter: you decided not to do anything but vote?

[Junpei]

vote tammy

Alright well, sorry about that last post, wasn't sure if BBcode would work from this thing, and only now remembered preview.

[Junpei]

RD TAmmy and Slaxx all boasting about their reads. Uh wat lol

gg though

[Junpei]

Also once replacements starting flowing in I lost my footing and started to lose my flow. Kublai Khan had to act excessively suspicious to cover for me so just giving him props for that since that kind of thing tends to go unnoticed.

RD: My point is that I remember sitting there, you voting me, and just watching you do nothing to get me lynched aside from a vote. You could have done more to get at me.

Tammy: Same deal, you got yourself lynched and couldn't convince anyone to lynch me or Kublai Khan, making your reads non-efficient. I'm just saying - you don't get to say how well you can find scum if you can't kill them.

[Junpei]

wow you hit me hard in the chest there. I'll recover, but i'm not sure if roflcopter ever will seeing as you pretty much just blamed him for your loss.

Whatever, this happens every game - losing side finds ways to egoboost themselves and winning sides lols and the losing side gets verbose.

[Junpei]

I'm just saying - you don't get to say how well you can find scum if you can't kill them.

Um...Why not?

Because it would imply you did very well.

Tammy: Don't take it personally, I don't like it when anyone acts like a loss wasn't their fault, even in a team game. As a basketball player, there's always more I could have done every time I lost a game. Just leave me alone if I'm an egotistical dummy, why bother arguing with me then?

[Junpei]

No...it would imply that a person is good at finding scum.

No.. that's what the statement is explicitly saying; that Tammy did very well is a connotation. Anyway I'm going to bed. I understand why I would let someone think they did well even if I disagree. I normally do that, but I guess I finally got through with watching people say that.

pedit: Okay, fine Tammy. You did very well good job. I always forget that most people prefer to be treated carefully rather than assessed or whatever.