Mini 1501: We're On A Boat! (END?! results inside)

[SpyreX]

Now this is what I'm talkin about. Entering on a miller claim off a page 1 jump wagon? I think the chances are super high that this stink isn't the wacky random hijinks style, but the scum jumping a little too soon.

Generally, a miller claim is garbage but I think this one is going to end up legit. He's not throwing it up like a shield and a page 1 mercy killing is a little too cheeky for the scum ploy (miller normally is presented like a mystic shield) - Betting it all on black that early doesn't make a lot of sense.

Overall, that initial push is bad, but its no where near as bad as Aero's leap onto it. Right after it looks like its starting to calm the tee-hee prep vote leaping on is bad, bad bad. When the time comes, I'll hammer that one into oblivion.

There's plenty of juice to be had from that squeeze if its a scum lemon too. I'm not super anxious, but I do

not

want to see this mill about forever and a day waiting for the check in. I want Aero blood all over my face

[SpyreX]

Ohh yea - I've been blocked at work so its gonna be short checkins. I can peek on my phone and will hammer like a boss, but dont expect a lot of substance during the days.

[SpyreX]

The thing is - a miller claim is a tasty steak, and its impossible for scum to not bite. It is the freest kill in the world

[SpyreX]

So, I want more ffery. I'm intrigued and I like the cut of that jib a lot.

Ultimately, the page 1 dance is going to come down to the great game of which is more likely:

- A wagon formed on scum off the bat and the scum went panic mode and claimed

miller

as the get out of jail free pass.
- A wagon formed on a miller, claimed miller, and the jumps on tried to push that through.

Miller claims are bad. Yes. They normally have to be dealt with before end game. However, a great way to deal with them is to to just win before it gets to that point and a scum flip HERE forces that hand because you're gonna have a haaaaard time selling me on that being a bus

[SpyreX]

Like I said before. We have a talk, squeeze out whatever we can, then wash our faces in Aeronaut's blood

[SpyreX]

I'm developing a crush on ffery. This exchange looks very tvt.

Aero's replacing is legit, but that doesn't change anything about the deal.

[SpyreX]

Not one but two espousing that the claim was an out of the gate mastermind plot?

If that was a scum maneuver, I'd put hard money cash on it being in direct response to the chucklewagon that predicated it. Even that is a far, far less likely then the truth when you've got an entire bag of lies as scum to choose from.

As for wanting AeroSK dead its a reaffirmation that while I'm not down with a 7 page lynch I'm super not down with the 50+ page nonsense I've seen the ~meta~ turn to even worse since I've been gone. So, we squeeze out what we need to and then go from there. I haven't been persuaded that an end of the day that isn't dead SK isn't a good death.

Before the end of the day, you can expect some serious notes, but for now, I'm being patience.

[SpyreX]

*patient. THANK YOU SPELLCHECKER FOR YOUR HELP

[SpyreX]

The schedule isn't moving anywhere, not now.

If I knew what more I was looking for, I really wouldn't need to play now would I?

[SpyreX]

Maestro is on my purge by fire sheet, but its lazy for the moment. Kaze? Not buying it.

[SpyreX]

Ok SK sorry I doubted you. This game has taken a turn down crazypants isle and you're right. I'm getting lazy in my old age.

Unvote, Vote: Kaze

Town:
Ffiery
Notscience
SKrew
Plum* (for sure on Kaze-scum, MOSTLY otherwise).
Smudger

Town but will become dead later:
Brian

I'm so bipolar on CDB I can't even decide. I literally read it once and wanted to pull out a shiv then reread it less than an hour later and thought town. I'm HOPING it doesn't come down to that decision.

Of the remainder I'm way more confident in Gamr being town then the rest. YYR and Maestro are dregs and CTD is one note and that note is brown.

This is predicated in Kaze's flailing arm inflatable tube man stunt being scum. Smudger is far more gut than the others. More than anything I'm willing to gamble here on SK-town because thats making more sense AND Kaze was a leaper on that miller badness.

[SpyreX]

You, mostly. You wouldn't like what's changed my mind.

It was a bad vote, but you've been doin stuff. Enough for me to throw the dice

[SpyreX]

Two paragraphs.

Aero's vote was baaad, but you've got a couple things that swayed my tempesteous nature

[SpyreX]

Its ok. I'll explain later if you REALLY need me to.

[SpyreX]

It's bothering me because you seemed 1000% in how did you describe it? Washing your face in my blood?

I did. I still deep in my heart do because I hate second guessing myself. If it comes down to you mean and pretty much anyone at a lylo it'd be hard not to redoubt myself.

But i'm trying to learn to take a step back more. I've was off my game before my hiatus and I actually want to get back to the roots and re-evaluate. The big thing was calling the Maestro push lazy - because it is. He needs to step up or die and that's a greeeeeat copout D1 and you didn't even blink at it. That's genuine.

Genuine enough, like I said, I'm willing to throw the dice. I can always wear your face as a hat later.

[SpyreX]

Any particular reason why this is town and not policy lynch/vig shot? I'm just curious because you've been reading me based on the claim, not based on what I've done this game.

|

Because you haven't done much that isn't based around the claim.

And miller is one of those ghosts that just lingers forever. Unless it turns into a sweep, it has to be dealt with. Its just the nature of the beast.

I think you're town. I'm hoping you get to see the end of times but I'm not about to throw everything in on a miller.

[SpyreX]

Woo nelly we've got people holdin hands and movin together finally yee-haw.

SpyreX: I really disliked his treatment of the miller claim early on in #88 -- his argument that "he's not throwing it up as a shield" makes no sense given that 1) miller claims are mechanically "shields" as it is basically claiming immunity to cop investigations, and 2) Brian did initially treat his claim as a shield by telling people to "look elsewhere". He also claims the miller claim is town and wants to win without having to lynch it but then mentions in #335 that it will have to die at some point. The two positions seem mutually exclusive to me. It feels like he's keeping his options open to lynch Brian down the road. I also don't like his progression from AeroSK to Kaze either -- it doesn't make sense for him to feel so confident that Aero is scum to the point where he's willing to hammer that lynch without deliberation (and want that slot's blood all over his face) but then move onto Kaze. In that light, the vote on Kaze feels oppportunistic.

This pile really needs to be brought to light.

1.) In what universe is a miller a shield considering more than one person

wanted him dead for just that

?
2.) Yessir he was sure saying look elsewhere:

I'm the miller. I'm going to die anyways, look for someone else.

I assume the town typically either lynches the miller at some point or a vig shoots him at night.

3.) I'm not "keeping options open". I'm stating a fact. If this isn't a sweep, a miller claim gets lynched because it WILL be lynched at lylo for a loss. Its too easy and it has to be dealt with. Period. I'm pretty sure that "the meta" hasn't shifted that much since I've been around and, if it has, thats bad and you should feel bad. I want to win without having to eat what WILL be a mislynch.
4.) Now, I know I'm not hip with the lingo and I'm sooo hard to follow but the same "broken record" that Slaxx espoused was me saying that while I want(ed) the lynch, I do not want it fast and I want other things dealt with beforehand. This isn't even looking at it sideways. I want someones to straight faced tell me that ANYWHERE you get "without deliberation" from what I said. I want that done before this day is done because, when the time comes, I want whomever is left alive to murder any slot with impunity that has the stones to commit to weapons-grade nonsense.
5.) Kaze is "opportunistic". When SK started, I wasn't down with it. However, as things progressed SK is giving far more positive vibes and this is kaze:


And this isn't even under "the heat". This is little pokes exploding into nonsense over and over again. That kind of circuit rewire makes waaay more sense as scum capitulating to pressure and milking the death.

And, of course, the other vaunted scum read is Brian (and a lurker oooooh). In what universe would that make any, ANY, sense. This isn't a large. There's not room to dance that retarded of a dance.

But it sure looks good on paper.

----

As for the other speedwagons:
Lol is town still. Ffirey is town still.

But this gem:

One thing from you I'm comfortable with - at least this was exactly how I felt when I first caught up. Otherwise: I hate hate hate that you get away with going all the way to SK is Town with such little scrutiny. Pretty much the only concrete scumhunting-related you'd said in the game to that point was There Will Be Blood, Aero/SK, and poof. I guess you gave your explanation for the read change but I'll put it this way: If it had been you explaining that the Maestro wagon was lazy and investigating those who were voting him and their motives, I'd have a drastically different opinion of you.

I'm assuming since you've been himmin and hawwin and finally voted I'm scum - but I actually did say Maestro was lazy way back in the before times as well. When Sk was starting but before he had truly committed to showing against Kaze's attitude about it.

Even better though - what's the scum Angle? Trading a 180 in a game where the wolves are salivating for any excuse for nonsense (see this power wagon) in order to...secure a D1 lynch on Kaze? Whom all your compatriots seem to think is my scum bro? Which, by the nature of 180'ing on wouldn't even give me that sweet town cred?

I'm rusty, I'm not pants-on-head stupid. I 180'd because it warranted a 180.

Additionally, and I don't know how else this can be spelled out - finding town early is a lot easier and a lot more useful than finding scum. Its, actually, scum-hunting *gasp*

But, we can dance this for a bit. Thats fine.

[SpyreX]

Also, since this appears to be one of those games:

I still didn't move my vote. Even though Empire is probably scum, Kaze is still the better lynch.

This can pan out SOME but I guarantee you that the end result is bad, bad, bad.

[SpyreX]

<3

However, more importantly - am I right and Empires stink is because thats garbage writ large?

[SpyreX]

You don't think I'd call people out for this as scum?

?

Well, sure, depending. The counterquestion is - do you think Aero's vote on that miller wagon was bad? If so (like I still do) then coming in making waves versus riding the easy mark doesn't make as much sense.

[SpyreX]

Less safe and easy.

But, tomato tomato

[SpyreX]

I'm not king meta. Making those waves there doesn't make sense.

Of course, if you want to get to the heart of matters, the fact we're having THIS conversation kinda cements I was right

[SpyreX]

Ahhh Kuribo <3. Yea, this isn't my first ride on the pony by any stretch. I don't get lynched much because lynching me normally requires some serious commitment by scum, and I try to make them pay for it. Or, so it was in the before times.

@CDB:

Kaze's post you referenced is missing the forest for the trees:

Spoiler: quotewallz

VOTE: Brian Skies

Wagons, biznitch.

Not sure how to feel about miller claim.

Seen it legit before; seen it used as a scum gambit before.

Yup.

Miller claims are absolutely null and wifom.

The fuck they are.

You express yourself rather unsure about the miller claim, but yet are so adamant about them not being null tells in your next post. Then surely you have more of an opinion on the miller claim besides 'I dunno,' especially with the potential of the growing wagon.

Idk about HIS miller claim. But miller claims in general are not null. Apples and oranges.

I'm pretty alright with the aeronaut vote right meow

Unvote

VOTE: Aeronaut

A couple key pieces in this little puzzle:

1.) He voted Brian before the claim in that early flashwagon.
2.) He hedges his bet on the miller claim and blindly and blatantly as I've seen in forever. There is no committal to anything there and how you get town out of that I dont know.
3.) He then jumps onto the Aero wagon.

What DOESNT happen there in that jump is any kind of actual commitment on Brian. That door is left as open as possible while not actually giving even an inkling of rationale for the switch.

There is no commitment to anything except wagon leaping.

[SpyreX]

What are you playing at? You know I have reasons for my read on you and I dont get being coy about it here at all.

ENTER SHOCKING REVELATION HERE

[SpyreX]

Dont fly all you want but this:

Spyrex- Calls me town, no reasoning. I feel like "oh if he's town he's a deadly scumhunter" is a bad reason to keep someone alive js.

is a baldfaced lie.

[SpyreX]

The no reasoning. If it comes down to it, I'll explain but there should be enough if you look crosseyed to see something is amiss.

[SpyreX]

It's actually not a lie, scumrex.

You have yet to try and discern my alignment.

Thus, my point.

I'm not sure what song and dance you're up to, still, but it stops now:

I'm in a neighborhood with NS. Without tipping my hand entirely, considering that its a night-only neighborhood and "the meta" as well as personal experience this lended me to believe far more in an NS town than scum. I said this before the game started - as well as suggesting the crumb and trying to bait a fake neighbor claim in case one of us died.

So, like I said before, this is patently false because, while not air tight by any margin, I was willing to call this town out of the gate. That's done.

--------
@CTD:

Brown, as in the brown note. You can go google it if you really need to because this new series of music is just a continuation.

The big issue for me here is that you're calling Brian town while at the same time stating that he should be lynched later on. If you're against lynching him today for stated reasoning that you think he is town, why are you preemptively in favor of lynching him later? Again, the "we could town-sweep" argument is hogwash, because a mislynch or two has zero bearing on Brian's alignment.

I'm not sure what glasses you're using when you read my posts but lets get one thing clear: Being cognizant of something that will happen is not the same as being in favor of it. It is in no way shape or form a leap or a Nostradamus prediction that Brian will end up dead unless the game is in a state where that doesn't need to happen. So, go ahead and drink your own hogwash if you think that the game state doesn't have any affect on the lynch.

And never, never ever did I make any statements about Brian's

alignment

. He's town, but that doesn't change the fact down the road. This isn't even car science, much less rocket science.

Why is Empire scum?

Nope. I'm not playing speak and spell. If you dont see why I think he's scum

from a post you are quoting

you're either being willfully obtuse or *gasp* dont care enough to look. Its almost like its a trend.

Your defense against the accusation that you're not scumhunting is that you're town hunting instead, and here you accuse one of your stated town reads of lying without it having any apparent influence on your read. I don't even.

There's not a "defense". There's nothing to defend. What I did say, and just reiterated is that notscience

is lying

. The original statement was a lie. End point. You either think I am lying about his lie, or telling the truth. End point.

Secondly, why is your Kaze case so utterly terrible?

Its not a case. Its context for someone else about a specific statement they made. WOOOOSH.

What it is is a symptom. Of a pattern of behavior that looks far more scum motivated than town motivated. The faux-rage and nonesense when SK poked him even a little bit is far more tantamount that that.

[SpyreX]

You mentioned purging Maestro by fire being a lazy thing 'for the moment'. In passing. While you didn't have a vote on anyone. That is not at all the same thing as instigating discussion about the Maestro wagon and the motives/utility of the votes on him. I gave that as an example of lack of scumhunting investment. Your mention of the Maestro option being lazy isn't, and such investment is all but completely absent from your initial play.

No, you didn't do a 180 for the purpose of saving Kaze; that thought never occurred to me and the notion is absurd. It will save you if anyone - you may be under scrutiny for the 180, but less, I suspect, than if you were currently supporting an SK lynch, with or without a vote. But I'll always dance the dance with you, Spy : Why didn't you vote Aero in the first place?

Sigh.

"The moment" is a lurker lynch today. All other things being equal, there's no 'discussion' to be had about a player not playing D1. Its either kill, or wait. When actual things are happening, its lazy. There is no utility and there is very little useful - one of the many reasons why lurkers are a plague that do need to be purged by fire.

Yes, trying to scatter the wagon and 'save' Kaze by voting would be absurd - which is probably why I never said I was doing that. I'm saying from multiple people, you included, were sure as hell listing me as scum with Kaze. So, I 180'd a position on SK to bus a partner to get nothing out of it. So, again, whats the motive as scum to 180 there in any situation but especially if Kaze is also scum?

And, how can you even pretend to straight face say that I'd be under more scrutiny when the power train happened after I changed my vote?

As for not voting Aero its almost like I said why back then. The wagon didn't need "steam" - it needed the opposite, in fact. It needed to not be in a position where a hero speedballed it out of control without other things happening or a teehee self hammer. And, of course, its kind of hard to hammer from on a wagon.

And this is the thing.

Our role does not confirm the alignment of the other player.

And he wants to call me town out of the gate without actively trying to get a read on me? And then his lying bit- isn't it against my wincon as town (which he says I am) to lie such as that?

Confirmed is a pipe dream. You can chase that dragon all you want.

What it does, and what I said, is give reason to believe

all other things equal that you were

town.

Says is the wrong tense. Said. Much like after I asked what the hell you were doing and you committed to this nonsense. However, today isn't the day for that. This could still very will be a stupid crusade but it is extremely suspect.

[SpyreX]

I can see why the neighborhood would make town-NotSci freaking paranoid.

Except he wasn't - until there was a wagon.

[SpyreX]

I can see why the neighborhood would make town-NotSci freaking paranoid.

Except he wasn't - until there was a wagon.

And you don't think that seeing other people voting and expressing concerns might fan niggles and reservations into flames?

If there's a difference or a revaluation of things (see SK) sure. That happens all the time. There is an ebb and flow.

What we saw was something that was

from the beginning

becoming a vote only when there was traction. That's not niggles and reservations, thats scum or lazy. Which is why I'll skip ahead in answering:

So NS is scum?

I'm not convinced of that. However, if I had a bullet you'd see little pieces of NS brainstem all over the thread. I'd rather lynch for usefulness then spite right now because I know I'm too close to judge that entirely rationally.

Well that happened quicker than I thought.

Mod:

Apologies for the prods - I don't need V/LA, I just need to get off my arse and post more. Steps are being taken.

Re: Spyrex: The below from CTD interests me. I've turned the scenario over a couple of times in my head and it doesn't quite feel like a consistent mentality from Spyrex.

The big issue for me here is that you're calling Brian

town

while at the same time stating that he should be lynched later on. If you're against lynching him today for stated reasoning that you think he is town, why are you preemptively in favor of lynching him later? Again, the "we could town-sweep" argument is hogwash, because a mislynch or two has zero bearing on Brian's alignment.

Ffery - why YYR?

I dont know why I'm having such a hard time explaining this and why it makes me want to choke someone but i'll try again.

Lets pretend there's a game, and there's a guy being a stud. The towniest town that ever towned. Then you lynch a framer. Then you find a cop's breadcrumbs clearly saying mr town is guilty.

Does he get lynched? You bet your ass - unless the town wins before it gets to that point. You dont leave dangling things like that around at lylo, because they lose games. Now, if you think he's town you keep him around just long enough to try and let him finish it off before he has to die.

Millers are a lot like that. There's a lot of scenarios where Brian has to go, but none of those change

that I think he's town

. He can't be here at lylo. So, either he dies or we win before that point.

Which kind of ties into this ball of garbage once again:

I'm not sure what glasses you're using when you read my posts but lets get one thing clear: Being cognizant of something that will happen is not the same as being in favor of it. It is in no way shape or form a leap or a Nostradamus prediction that Brian will end up dead unless the game is in a state where that doesn't need to happen. So, go ahead and drink your own hogwash if you think that the game state doesn't have any affect on the lynch.

And never, never ever did I make any statements about Brian's alignment. He's town, but that doesn't change the fact down the road. This isn't even car science, much less rocket science.

The essence of this is still "Brian is town, but if the game gets to a certain stage (i.e. not a clean sweep), he needs to die", and it still doesn't make any sense.

Nope. I'm not playing speak and spell. If you dont see why I think he's scum from a post you are quoting you're either being willfully obtuse or *gasp* dont care enough to look. Its almost like its a trend.

Don't give me that crap. I hate it when people play "I see something that you don't see" in mafia. All you've had to say about Maestro is that he's lazy and needs to "step up or die". That's awfully thin reasoning to say that Empire is "probably scum", particularly when the "lazyness" in question on Maestro's part has resulted in dropping out.

There's not a "defense". There's nothing to defend. What I did say, and just reiterated is that notscience is lying. The original statement was a lie. End point. You either think I am lying about his lie, or telling the truth. End point.

So NS is scum?

Spyre's neighborhood with notscience and the interactions regarding it are actually solidifying my townread on the former.

I actually empathize with this to a degree. While I find aspects of it hair-raisingly asinine (Spyrex suggesting that a town/town neighborhood is "far more likely" than a town/scum neighborhood, Spyrex anticipating a fake neighbor claim), the manner of the claim did strike me as the first thing out of Spyrex's mouth that feels more likely to come from town than scum.

You know what, I'll pretend for a minute you're going to actually read the words before I get to the heart of this.

A Maestro wagon D1 is lazy. Maestro, as owner of the slot, did nothing. Empire came in and managed in one post to say very little concrete with a lot of feelings (and junk) that just magically happened to coincide with a wagon that sprung up as he was rereading. Masterful. More importantly,

one has nothing to do with the other

. Maestro=nothing=bad. Empire=words=bad. One feeds into the other because its the same slot but that read is entirely from Empire.

Now, I get to do something I don't think I've ever done before because you've got this knack for getting right under my skin.

Even with taking the last year mostly off, I am still one of the most prolific posters on this site. There's a couple handfuls, if that, players that have actually played more games than I have. I've been active in the running of this site, moderating and

research

. I've been around long enough to remember the great neighbor versus mason discussions because, even then, all it REALLY was was a scare tactic to make sure they weren't confirmed. In all of my games I can count the number of times neighbors have been mixed on one hand. I'm not new to this block even a little bit.

You add to that the simple fact that a no daytalk neighborhood is FAR more useful as a tool for town then scum and, every time, I'm gonna bank on town coming out of the gate until proven otherwise. Kind of like the default state of the game.

And setting up to bait a fake neighbor claim? That is a low-risk high-reward maneuver. If I'm thinking, I'd suggest that in every single neighborhood ever.

So, you can take your "asinine", fold it up into a nice sandwich and take a big bite. And then choke on it. This ivory tower you like to sit in is kinda flaky and falling apart. Maybe you should come down and join the plebs.

-----

@CDB, Ffery, SK:
Help. I want to see some direction here and its time to start pulling the cart like good horsies. Kaze's new pendulum swing is starting to give me some seeerious doubts. Sell me on a wagon or tell me why Kaze shouldn't die.

[SpyreX]

@CDB, Ffery, SK:Help. I want to see some direction here and its time to start pulling the cart like good horsies. Kaze's new pendulum swing is starting to give me some seeerious doubts. Sell me on a wagon or tell me why Kaze shouldn't die.

I haven't cared much for the Kaze wagon since its inception and I still don't care for it, especially since he decided to pull up his socks.

I posted my reasons for voting YYR earlier. Thoughts?

Empire also bothers me, but it's a subtle thing, unlike YYR's posts. More data could help.

YYR kind of goes both ways. I can see where he's coming from in regards to Brians claim and Kaze's flip. I'd like a little more. On the surface, he's cleaner than Empire from the stance of fabricating to make it fit. There's no depth, but he's...trying? at least. 8 posts with no substance makes it hard to sell that without a smoking gun. Of course, I know I get jaded when I'm the focal point and that may be some of my Empire hate.

Kaze worries me because he was sword out before, but there hasn't been anything when I've fought tooth and nail to continue his lynch. He keeps agreeing with me and that makes me a little paranoid.

[SpyreX]

Actually, and I'm tired and would like a set of eyes - what are the parallels of the main wagons today? Care to do a comparison?

[SpyreX]

The sentiment is entirely mutual. At least I got a kick out of you giving me, of all people, a lecture on your pedigree. I have a bit of experience myself, and your theory stances are simply incompatible with mine. But you've presented them with enough conviction at this point that I can see them not being scum-motivated.

This entire conversation is reminding me more and more of spats I've had with The Fonz, who I've spent pages arguing with because we have a knack for getting under each other's skin. I'm beginning to feel that we may have just started off on the wrong foot and I'm inclined to give you the benefit of doubt.

There is a world of difference between incompatibility and asinine. And it wasn't a e-peen contest, it was stating that I'm not fresh and it needs to be treated as such. But, yes, lets dial back and kill each other like civilized folk.

Spy - I rarely if ever like to make strong assumptions about buddies Day 1. I don't have a strong assumption on you/Kaze buddies or not. It's more than plausible enough to to make me feel like it's not worth not voting one of you because I think the other one is scum and you can't be buddies.

Thats not what I'm getting at. If me changing my vote is suspect

why would I do it as scum

? If I'm scum, every interaction is for a reason. There isn't a good one there because I'm not.

Uh huh. And in Post #183 when you reaffirm that you definitely want Aero/SK lynched, there was a grand total of one vote on SK.

Seriously. Seriously.

What does that have to do with the initial post?

I literally don't even know what the argument here is anymore. I also don't care. Summarize whatever is going on here so it can be addressed finally or I'm just disregarding it.

Meh, people questioning unearned (or seemingly unearned) townreads on themselves usually reads Townish to me, and in this scenario NS reads that way to me. And paranoia about your Neighbor buddying up to you is pretty valid, as that's probably the more likely scum approach by far. That said, not sure what this says about you.

Town-town Neighborhoods probably are considerably more common, but not sure that it's to the point that someone being a Neighbor brings the chances of being Town above baseline.

If you made your statement about that belief about the ratios to NS before Day 1 started, though, seems kinda null on you in and of itself.

Its like I said before. Context.

If NS was showing reservations from the beginning - because this was said before the game started, sure. This only happened

once a wagon formed

. That is not a coincidence.

And your underlined... what? The 'baseline' is already in swing of a random player being town - I make reference to that being a general default. The 'baseline' of Neighborhoods is, by a margin, more likely to be town. Enough that I'm willing to roll with it until otherwise proven. Like this game.

Its not like he was given the keys to the castle forever. Its a start. Carving out via probability is pretty common. And I'll never, ever in a million years call 'ok, you're probably town, lets plan for baiting a fakeclaim in the event someone dies' buddying. I wasn't asking to cuddle up and read his diary, ffs.

But this is piggybacking the other business and really is a lot of words to say NS is somehow town for his timing and I'm 'null' for mine. Which is nutterbutters writ large.

@all

This Brian wagon makes me very sad all over. SHAME.

[SpyreX]

When I found out I was a neighbour I instantly looked it up on the Wiki. I instantly thought scum-town, but I wanted to give him the chance to try and prove himself. When I got into the QT, he seemed a bit too into the whole town-town bit. All a neighborhood is is a night connection between 2 players. We don't know each other's alignment. But, he seemed all too ready to townread me which really bugs me.

bawk bawk

There is a total of 1 post from us each. His, the first, consists of calling me scum. I have said as close to verbatim mine as I can get.

Unvote, Vote: NS

This isn't an accident anymore

[SpyreX]

Your previous strategy of sitting back and calling for a not-too-distant-future SK lynching was obviously less tenable than a 180. It doesn't make your tee-hee avoidance of voting SK or doing anything to progress the game to the point of your vote switch more acceptable, especially when your stated reason - that the wagon had too much steam as it was - wasn't relevant. The sort of position you took on the Aero/SK wagon was easily able to be abused according to gameflow. I thought the Aero wagon was bad and based on very shallow reasoning. That sort of early wagon with that sort of player could become a viable Day 1 lynch or become completely unviable as a target. Voting changes the way a wagon works and moves, and how you're held accountable for wagon flow and shift over time. You set up an opportunistic approach while avoiding scumhunting or progressing the game. That's a tactic. And that's scummy.

I'm a firm believer that intent matters a whole lot more than vote. There's no way I could 180 off that after saying its what I wanted far stronger than a simple vote (see the discussion here versus if I had simply hopped on then hopped off).

Initially, when I stated my intent, Aero had "steam" because that was a garbage vote. Page 2 jokevote that puts someone into striking range? That's gonna garner votes and fast as it did. I didn't want the reverberation from that to turn into a 4 page d1 as fun as that would be (and, if I was scum, thats pretty much a golden dream).

But, we can go back and forth on that because you're sooo close here:

Wait wait. I read the thing that tripped the switch given prior paranoia was the called Townread of you (along with a bunch of others). Am I reading right here?

I'm not crazy. You are reading what happened with NS. It is as nonsense as it sounds considering I said that to him before the game started and it came out on the wagon.

[SpyreX]

This is an unabashed prod response as I am mentally drained. I'm about 3 pages back.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX, do you think your playstyle has changed since Artemis Fowl?
What about since Through a Puppy's Eyes?

My playstyle is very capricious. I'm definitely playing 'different' (re worse) then in the golden ages but Through a Puppy's Eyes was a terrible game and really made me realize it was time for a break. I'm still not into any groove and even when I'm in a groove that groove is really different depending on the game.

Like this - the fire under my belly helped, but it is restalling. The replacementitis KILLS me amazingly fast and throws me all out of wack, almost every time. And that clearly hasn't changed from rereading.

Aside from hating the formatting I do like NS's post. I'm not sold on it 100%, but.

I dont know what to think about SO WILD AND CRAZY Grimgroove - the river of thought feels more town than not.

If we dont see activity, I am not in favor of an extension.

[SpyreX]

Because I didn't want a page 5 lolwagon to accidently hammer.

To you, ffery, CDB:

One bullet. Who dies.

[SpyreX]

Pffft

Boring answer from boring town.

I still dont see that being scum.

---

No, I mean more I didn't want the day to end that fast. I should watch my wording I suppose in my old age

[SpyreX]

Yessir and yes maam.5 = Empire scum yes, CDB scum?

[SpyreX]

They -should- of course but thats boring.
Mind you, a scum lynch and thats what happens no questions.

[SpyreX]

There's no misunderstanding. We're not confirmed. However, no matter what you want to call it, saying I had no reasoning is a baldfaced lie.

The question is was it town or not.

[SpyreX]

What is your answer to this question?

Probably Empire. Maaaybe CTD but there's enough good vibes there and I can't tell if its spat spillover.

[SpyreX]

I will be at work tomorrow and may not be around for deadline.

If it absolutely comes down to it, I will vote Brian. I'd rather almost any wagon form though.

[SpyreX]

Slaxx sell me I like CDB way more than Empire

Here lets make it more interesting

Unvote, Vote: Empire

on for at least another hour

[SpyreX]

We need to come to SOME solution, faster than slower.

[SpyreX]

I'll be back later tonight.

However, ffery:
Please help me find out who dismantled and redirected the Empire wagon at end of day BACK on to Brian.

Those people get to die a lot.

As for NS's vig mantra:
What makes you think that shot wasn't a vig shot?

[SpyreX]

@Garmr:

Read again. Both kills were shots. Empire had the knives, etc.

Spoiler: Wagons

Grimgroove: CrashTextDummie, Notscience
notscience: Garmr

Empire

: SpyreX, fferyllt
ChannelDelibird:

Brian Skies

,

lolwagons

CrashTextDummie: Grimgroove

lolwagons

: Peabody

Brian Skies

: ChannelDelibird, SleepyKrew, Plum

Grimgroove: Notscience
notscience: Garmr

Empire

: SpyreX, fferyllt,

lolwagons

SleepyKrew:

Brian Skies

, Grimgroove
ChannelDelibird: Peabody

Brian Skies

: ChannelDelibird, SleepyKrew, Plum, CrashTextDummie

notscience: Garmr

Empire

: SpyreX,

lolwagons

,

Brian Skies

, fferyllt
SleepyKrew: Grimgroove
ChannelDelibird: Peabody

Brian Skies

: ChannelDelibird, SleepyKrew, Plum, CrashTextDummie,

Empire

, Notscience

notscience: Garmr

Empire

: SpyreX,

lolwagons

,

Brian Skies

, fferyllt
SleepyKrew: Grimgroove

Brian Skies

(L-0): ChannelDelibird, SleepyKrew, Plum, CrashTextDummie,

Empire

, Notscience, Peabody

CTD (shock) was the vote that pushed Brian ahead.
The second Brian voted for SK someone should have noticed. Plum saying its a barrel of WIFOM hurts the brainmeat.
Peabody's throwaway vote is very, very bad. He avoided it entirely.
NS's vote was the one that really cemented the momentum.

Empires wagon was all town. Scum swung at least one other vote on that one taking it, especially with it being a roleblocker AND them knowing brian was actually a miller putting a big ol "THAR BE COPS" in the setup spec. That one would be committed to.

I'm not stoked about SK's pushing but I've still got warm there.
Peabodies vote there doesn't bother me AS much.

Unvote, Vote: NS

This one is the one that really sets me off.

CTD and Plum are close.

[SpyreX]

Bandwagon analysis and 0 last night doesn't help it much.

I need to reread cdbs post when I'm more awake. Still working 16 hours going strong wooooo

[SpyreX]

I'll give you a hint what NS was looking for: nothing.

Additionally assuming that wasn't a one shot masterpiece NS flips red CTD can become dead.

Garmr's posting today really has that genuine lost feel to it. I'm liking it.

[SpyreX]

This weekend my family leaves for a week.

While sad, that means I will have more time for this.

Because this is ridiculous here.

[SpyreX]

I'm still alive

Ffery upon reread, my read of Spyrex changed, although his whole neighborhood bit today leaves a bad taste in my mouth

Which part? The part where I asked if checking the neighborhood would be a waste of my time and then it was a waste of my time?

----

Ok, for whatever reason this game we're having a real cloud of lazy, and it needs to stop. I'm even getting hit by it and part of that is in rereading I saw... nothing.

I would love for every person in their next post to either vote for NS or explain to me why he's a bad vote - and, by that, I mean why he's town. If you've got another super awesome case on someone, lets do it. Lets quit belaboring and cause some action.

[SpyreX]

I still think CDB is town. Its not something really quantifiable but he makes... sense. I can follow his play from a town point a lot more than others.

SK, I thought was town but with the houdini act after a dead scum I get nervous.

Grimgroove is a lot more town than his predecessor. The stream of consciousness is a pretty ballsy scum entrance there.

So, of them, I'd maaybe vote SK but I'd rather vote CTD OR Plum before any of them. And thats still low tier to NS.

[SpyreX]

I'm not a huge meta guy so thats not going to be a sell for me.

[SpyreX]

I dont know what it is about this game, but there's still not any bite. I don't like the CDB Wagon, at all.

[SpyreX]

v/la until thursday. I'll be checking in.

[SpyreX]

We have little over a day. With what is possible right now I'm not even a little convinced about CDB and my crusade isn't getting traction for now.

Unvote, Vote: Plum.

Consolidate and fight.

[SpyreX]

I've got a quick minute. I'm not pleased about ABR yesterday, but VLA will do that.

Yates is probably town. FFery it town. Garmr is town. I'd bet hard on these things still.

Barring shenanigans writ large, that's enough to do it.

Unvote, Vote: Plum

[SpyreX]

How confident are you on this read?

Very.

Only ffery at this moment am I more confident with.

[SpyreX]

I think I'm starting to see where the not adding up is. I'd like to wait before my claim but I am also not VT and not cop.

[SpyreX]

Its about to get a little more confusing.

I'm the vig. I shot Empire, notscience and Grim.

Ill wait for Yates to continue on before I go through a few things that make 0 sense at the moment.

[SpyreX]

Yes I am.

I never said I was JUST a neighbor.

[SpyreX]

No hammer. I've got some stuff I want to sayy and there's no reason to be in a hurry. I'll try tonight.

[SpyreX]

I asked for a night. I will get a night.

There's a lot of variables here I don't like because I haven't had time to catch up. There's absolutely no reason to rush this at this point especially when all of a sudden my top town read from forever is the chopping block and since, as you said, even if you want to shake the SK stick its undeniable that I am not scum.

If I can't get to it tonight and there's a hammer tomorrow sure.

[SpyreX]

Its fine. There's a few things I'm really not excited about in the dance of lies but ffery's c/p on CTD's pretty clean crumb shores that up.

Really the only losing situation here is peabody fakeclaiming cop which would be professional grade. If ffery is town and I die tonight, don't buy into this rushed nonsense again.

Unvote, Vote: ffery

[SpyreX]

I didn't shoot last night.

This is exactly how this plays out with a godfather and this:

I still want to hear what ctd has to say through but I guess you make sense. Should we no lynch and make it 1 out 3 chance instead of a 1 out 4

Is the only avenue scum has.

There's only two ways town loses:

1.) Peabody is scum and wins due to awesome timing on his claim.
2.) We lynch the not scum vanilla claim AND they are bulletproof (I'm assuming not a double roleblocker nonsense setup).

Since I'd rather win on a lynch, my vote is for Garmr today. That is exactly what scum HAVE to say.

[SpyreX]

What?

Peabody is off the table - scum claiming cop there would be an edge case.

I brought it because its one of the only two ways this is lost: I assumed if I was alive today Yates would be dead and one of you two would say nolynch *gasp*

Thats the big reason why I think its garmr - its the only scum out.

I literally have no idea why you'd think I'd shoot Peabody (if I was to shoot anyone it would have been Yates) or why if I was that sure Garmr was scum I'd...lynch peabody?

So, to make it clear: as far as I'm concerned its either you or garmr.

[SpyreX]

Ok?

It really doesn't change anything so sure.

Like I said, Peabody-scum wins. Otherwise town wins.

Thats fine pretty much all of todays talk is boiled down to the above with a lot more words

[SpyreX]

So this is "Either lynch me or let me win if I'm scum?"

[SpyreX]

Spyrex, read my ISO. Read my interactions with Empire. Read my interactions with Plum. Read me for interactions with known town. Read me for tone and intent. Think about why Peabody wasn't killed 2 nights ago. Think about what I'm proposing. I'm willing to answer questions.

If after all that you can't see that I'm town, we can go ahead and lynch me.

Actually, no.

There's two scenarios really here and I can't even tell which one you believe if your town:

- You think I'm an SK and this is all jockeying for a scum-SK switchoff which kind of makes sense from the decision to lynch yourself but makes trying to appeal to me not matter at all.
- You think I'm a vig and trying to appeal to my shot kinda makes sense but if you thought this then the whole song and dance wouldn't matter because winning would be easier on lynching scum.

I'm really not interested in rereading this in detail trying to put together a "this is why CTD is town" case.

You convince me that Peabody has an actual real chance scum. With actual concrete reasoning.

Garmr can come in and vote whenever, if Peabody hammers before then I will probably shoot him. If I either get tired of waiting or am unconvinced, I'll hammer.

[SpyreX]

Ahem.

There's an E in it.

Vote: CTD

[SpyreX]

While I'd agree that the town played solid from a not-scummy perspective that lynch list (Brian, ABR, Plum, Ffery) is bonkers.

Empire I was actually fairly confident on being scum because I wanted to cripple them (at that point I didn't think 2 scum).
NS I thought was town but was easy for me to justify. Pretty much this is the only major "difference" between SK and Vig play for me.
Grim almost, and I mean ALMOST, became Peabody. That would have backfired.

The only thing late I was really concerned with (after Godfather gate started up) was Peabody actually inspecting me. But, Yates did a good job for me on the "SK's will return clear, so check someone else" as well as somehow leading into a Ffery lynch.

2 scum is hard. But 3 scum/sk is a town loss most of the time if there's no crosskill. Thats why I rarely put SK in a mini

All in all good game everyone!

[SpyreX]

Ehh Garmr I thought you were town from the very start. You've got that at least.

[SpyreX]

Definitely. FFery you played a solid game. I'm still not sure how that sweet sweet candy that was your lynch ESPECIALLY as a BP fell in my lap.

[SpyreX]

Would you have returned guilty? That isn't very typical.

Its not outside of the realms of what I'd expect. Normally i see either immunity from investigations or kills. Rarely both. Sometimes neither.

In fairness, I fully intended to lynch you after we lynched the "last scum." Again, a two scum setup versus an SK and this much Town power isn't very typical.

We were beaten by the setup, fair and square.

The only side, and even then its a stretch, beaten by the setup was the scum. Yous guys got beat by setup

speculation

.

I still think that the miller lynch was bad, ABR's lynch was really bad after SK's part in that role and FFery even with spec still hurts the head. Just think, if ffery had lied, the world would have been much better.