Mini 1532: Mac's Mini Normal - GAME OVER~

[pieguyn]

Sound of Silence (a hydra of fferyllt and GuyInFreezer) <- mafia
Mephistopheles <- mafia
hayatoBL <- town
WBOCampfire1104 <- town
TunnelVision <- town
My Milked Eek <- town
RadiantCowbells <- town
don_johnson <- town
ICEninja <- mafia
Flameaxe <- town
cedolad <- town
Remembrance <- town
pieguyn <- town

vote: SoS

[pieguyn]

I feel like walling \o/

Actually, this isn't random.

VOTE: IceNinja

scum

vote: RC

Yeah, I agree.

Unvote. Vote: ICEninja

Who's annie btw? And could we have the hydra sign their posts?

also scum, but would both scum really have done this at the same time? idk @_@

I placed my vote for something else and I realized pie-ice afterwards, but it's good to see I'm not the only one.

never mind probably town

Everyone:

Are you town?

Thanks for your answer. I'll be sitting here until we're done petty bullshit like meta and answers we know the answers to already. We need less of that and more votes on Me Fisto.

explain plz
if not plz tell me how confident you are in this read

@TV:

can you give me your first thoughts on ICE?

ha. just realized there is 4 pages. you guys are cookin'.

are you

I placed my vote for something else and I realized pie-ice afterwards, but it's good to see I'm not the only one.

What was the something else?

Also - about this pie-ice connection. Are y'all voting him because he voted away from pie immediately following two votes for pie, as a sort of attempt to de-rail that "wagon," or something else? Because if that's the case, given RVS, I don't really see that as suspicious. If I'm missing the point, though, please clarify.

And who the hell is Annie?

town

@GIF:

what do you think of my reads list?

Well I've been frustrated at the site being down so much, if that's what you mean.

I'm also suspicious of a player who claims to see parallels between this game and the early part of my last game, without knowing anything at all about my town play.

uuu I hate this
you're actively discrediting him by saying he knows nothing at all about your town play. why would you be doing this? for all you know he could have meta'd you while you weren't looking. I'd think a town player who's getting accused for no reason at all would be a bit more interested in knowing what said read is instead of discrediting 0.0

ha. just realized there is 4 pages. you guys are cookin'.

is your vote serious?

[pieguyn]

Voting IceNinja allows me to gauge Pie's reaction without risking him shutting down, which is a common town reaction to D1 pressure.

if it's a common town reaction why would you want to avoid "risking" me having that reaction?

And there you go, absolutely awful reaction.

no you're the one who had an absolutely awful reaction ~

both ffery and GIF should be able to guess why

also this is even worse

Why mention jon's same post twice?

cause I fucked up while creating the wall somehow 0.0

do you see what I'm seeing about RC?

@ffery:

same question

[pieguyn]

@ICE:

Funny. Guess what I avoid doing almost every game regardless of alignment: get on a wagon early game. Once in a rare while the mood will strike me, but if you want to actually meta read me you'll notice I like to MAKE my own wagons early game, especially as town.

I'm referring to this post where he makes it pretty clear he's based his vote 100% on the fact that he saw me vote non-bandwagon RVS early on. Which is silly because it is entirely possible I've done it fewer than 3 times (as any role) in my entire mafia history of more than 30 games.

can you explain plz

[pieguyn]

I'd rather not out the reason atm

it has smth do with the reads list I posted tho

[pieguyn]

boo

at least let me wait for ffery/GIF's answer

[pieguyn]

ffery and GIF were both in another game with me and there's a parallel to that game

given ffery specifically recognized the thing I'm picking up in that game that this is a parallel to I think there's a p good chance it's not just me 0.0

[pieguyn]

shh

[pieguyn]

do you see what I'm seeing about RC?
@ffery: same question

^ that one? can you link plz

[pieguyn]

Varsoon-fu? wat's that

[pieguyn]

huh that's not what I'm thinking

anything about his reaction to my reads list?

[pieguyn]

do you see what I'm seeing about RC?
@ffery: same question

Touhou?

yes

I'm not sure how this is complicated. I almost never bandwagon vote during RVS regardless of alignment. What needs explaining?

derp. misread your second post sry. I thought the second one was saying you avoid staying off wagons, not avoid getting on wagons 0.0

@Pie
Why exactly did you FOS ICE on post 15?

don't want to out this now. dw I'll out it very soon

[pieguyn]

ok let's see here

my "reads list" was a p obvious reaction test. in fact, the three "mafia" reads were completely random. it's a coincidence how two of them happened to be the people who voted me. but that's beside the point

RC is scum for taking said RVS reads list seriously. ime the only time people have taken THE LIST seriously they've been scum. the first time I tried it i was scum and looking for smth town looking to do and my scumbuddy was the one who took it seriously. someone else asked about it but he didn't make a big deal about it. the second time I tried it was in imperishable night and one of the scum started questioning said reads (and both ffery/GIF were in that game. this is the parallel I was mentioning)

in this case, he assumed my third scumread was legitimate. what's the reasoning for that? it's RVS. there's no reason to assume it's a legitimate scumread 0.0

plus, his later push on me is fake as fuck. I'll elaborate later when I'm on comp, but one example of this is 148

I'm mostly in watch-and-see mode with SoS. there was a post GIF made that seemed like town him and I figured if either of them recognized the parallel I'd feel comfortable with an early town read on them. but seems it didn't work

Rem is town bc his confusion over the reasoning for me+ICE, and trying to figure it out, seemed like a more town reaction. MME is town for p much the same idea. when people started talking about said "associative" his first inclination was smth tht wasn't THE LIST

more content later it's a pain in the ass to type on an iPad >_<//

[pieguyn]

@Rem: good timing

first off, I fucked up. mephi was the one who had a town reaction, not Rem

aka you are buying time to try to say something that sounds reasonable to cover up your slip.

this post is scummy as fuck

just by posting it he implies that he thinks I'm scum who's buying time to cover up my slip. but if that was the case why would I even bother posting, and being obvious as fuck about the fact that I'm waiting to reveal info? sure I could do this as scum but that post is itself a null tell. his idea that it's scummy is entirely contrived and fake as fuck

pie's reads post is odd for the placement of Ice

wow
ok you can be scum too

102 has a (funny) OMGUS, with 'no your reaction is shit), dodging the question and leaving the Town with more shit to deal with. Plus the constant 'I had a reason but now is too early' means I think I can label this player the most anti-town one in the game.

why is that alignment indicative? like, what is the scum motivation in constantly saying "now is too early", especially when there's plenty of time left?

first part is also a misrep. my vote on him was not based on his vote on me, or anything similar to that. it was bc his reaction did indeed suck, as I've explained. however, I can see why you'd think it's an OMGUS if you haven't reached my explanation yet

Also I'm not buying pie's 'reaction test', and especially not what he's trying to get out of it.

how convenient. nothing at all to back this up?

and why wouldn't you buy what I'm trying to get out of this? this is an experimental test that is based off

empirical evidence

, as opposed to smth theoretical or logic based. I've explained the reasoning behind it. thus, you declaring this and turning the burden of proof back to me, without explaining anything, feels fake as fuck

the scum motivation here is obvious. you are scum who got caught by the test AFTER I explained it. then you saw the reason for the test and you're now trying to discredit the basis for the test so you won't get caught. gj being transparent as fuck about it ~

Pieguyn, you town? If you are, there's at least one scumball on your wagon (and I don't think it's RadiantCowbells.)

you think so? care to explain why it's not RC?

also, do you think it's frog? from what I can see, it's even more likely to be him than RC, and they might both be scum

tbh all this talk about ICE re: THE WALL makes me think ICE is the third scum and the scum are wondering what the hell happened. but that's speculation

vote: frog

even more confident here than RC

[pieguyn]

First off, what is distracting you? You weak posted. This post you just made I'll think on. It's actually distracting me because I wanted to focus on the questions and not on your interpretation.

combination from waiting bc reaction test, being busy with RL/vacation, and putting moar effort into other games
also the post explaining my reaction test was an iPad post which is inconvenient as fuck so I couldn't do anything srs there

What questions do you have? What do you think of everyone based off of initial impressions?

no questions besides the ones at TV. I haven't been following the game closely (this should change now) and I can't figure out meaningful questions to ask when I'm not closely following the game

based off initial impressions, Mephi, and MME are town, and you're also town bc your meta analysis of me seems p spot on. mb I just have a weak spot for people who seem to know me well 0.0 frog is scum, RC is prob scum and ICE might be scum just bc there was so much of a reaction to me putting him in THE LIST

flameaxe seems town bc of his "screw you" attitude, and SoS is leaning town for now bc I've played a bunch of games with both heads and I haven't seen anything alarming from them yet. everyone else is null and hardly anyone is formally sorted atm bc lack of effort

Do you know Radiatcowbells? Have you played with him before?

nope, never played with him
however, that shouldn't change anything. IN was my first time playing with BROseidon and the result held for him too

I assume you disagree with the results I got? if so, do you also disagree about my points about RC/frog?

[pieguyn]

because just based off of what you posted I was going to get you lynched.

is this my first posts or my last posts? or both

also, what do you think about Eek?

I'm actually p awake atm \:D/

[pieguyn]

Based just off what he's posted he is golden

how sure are you on this and can you elaborate plz

also the last time I played Kalimar, he was a giant lurkfuck and he ended up being SK. so if he's similar to Kalimar that may be telling. but probably not 0.0

[pieguyn]

Nono, town Kalimar. Not your "He posted like 2 times, goddamnit I'm so bitter I lost to this" kalimar.

lmao
he didn't even get to 10 POSTS. damn right I'm bitter I lost to that =.=

what do you think about ICE?

[pieguyn]

what's giving you reservations about eek?

now that I look at it again, do you know if eek is a good enough scum player to fake that kind of thought process? mb I just suck but I think your town case on him is p good

[pieguyn]

Let's have a look at this in more detail. First of all, it took you a good 200 posts to actually tell us what you were doing, which, as has already been noted, gives you a large amount of time to salvage your post.

nope. I've already explained why I'm so inactive

Second, RC is scum for taking it seriously? I don't think that logically follows: RC takes reads list seriously, therefore he is scum? You haven't explained this logic leap. You use anecdotal evidence ('imo (sic) the only time people have taken THE LIST seriously they have been scum based on a whopping two incidences, one of which was you being scum. I think I can safely say that this is not a credited scumtell of any sort. If anything, RC is town for trying to get us out of RVS faster.

nope. I've explained everything behind the test

Thirdly, there's a little bit of hypocrisy mixed in. RC took you seriously, and is therefore scum, but that means you also took RC seriously, but that doesn't impact on you at all? Before you use the reaction test defence, how can you be sure he wasn't being serious (as it was RVS) or that he wasn't reaction testing also (and he can claim this with the same confidence as you, by the way)?

nope. he said it was a serious vote at the time he made the vote

as for his comment about my reaction, obv my reaction to his push on me is important, even if it's not explicitly a reaction test

You have, in fact, misrepped me here; I said you were anti-town because of that, not scum. However, I will humour you. See above why 'now is too early' is bollocks. You haven't explained why his reactions sucked (well, you have, but there's no logic) so of course I see it as an OMGUS. Most of your votes have been on somebody who has been voting you this game.

nope. first off, you said this:

Plus the constant 'I had a reason but now is too early' means I think I can label this player the most anti-town one in the game.

and then you voted me. it's p clear the idea here was you think I'm the most likely to be scum, and that me saying "it's too early" is one of the reasons for that. this is blatant backpedaling and scummy as fuck

second, what does the last sentence have to do with my argument against you? who cares if most of my votes are on people who are voting me? my case on you still stands. you're trying to deflect by bringing this up

0/4. plz try again

[pieguyn]

Just to determine where you stand, I would like you to explicitly agree or disagree with the following statement: ''Anyone who takes a comment seriously that was not intended to be taken seriously is scum''

this is a blatant strawman. I've already said this is based off empirical evidence (or anecdotal w.e you wanna call it) and I don't have any logical or theoretical explanation. the statement should be "anyone who takes pieguyn's RVS reads list seriously is probably scum". you have no way to generalize it. nice try

So I'm not even guilty of your 'reaction test' yet this is apparently the evidence needed to brand me scum. Very well done though, I almost missed your misquote.

the reads list is a base. it's a starting point. you mentioning ICE at all pinged, and the last part didn't matter. then your actions afterward reinforced my read on you.

what does this have to do with my case against you? again, nice deflection

Simultaneously calling me scum to try and discredit me while not pushing a wagon on me is scum play #1.

misrep. I had a vote on you and I intended to push you when I came back and started paying attention. then frog came in and started being scummy as fuck. I can't wagon both of you at once

What "THE LIST" are you talking about? And what reaction are you referring to?

the list I posted on my first post. it's not a specific reaction, it's how there was so much uproar all around at you being scum in that list

what do you think of frog and RC?

[pieguyn]

@Aegor:

why is MME scum? wanna wagon frog with us?

@RC:

what do you think about frog?

@frog:

what do you think about RC?

[pieguyn]

Inactivity doesn't come into it. You were asked to explain and refused to do so until this point. Why is this?

already explained

No, you haven't. You're missing the logic leap (and it isn't only frogs that can leap, clearly) explaining why someone who interprets it seriously is scum.

I've already explained that there is no logic or theoretical basis for it - it's based off empirical (or apparently anecdotal idc) evidence. several times, in fact

And all evidence at the time pointed towards your reads list being serious at the time. Why can't he retcon whilst you can? See: hypocrisy.

I never implied said list was serious. there was no evidence towards THE LIST being serious... in fact it's RVS so the natural assumption should be that it's not serious. especially considering half the playerlist hadn't even posted at the time I posted that list

thank you for proving my point ~

Actually, you'll find it in my initial thoughts in the game, so it isn't 'backpedalling'.

the backpedaling isn't anything in your "initial thoughts". it's how you thought I was the most scummy player and then redacted it to "owait I said anti-town not scummy" when I showed there was a problem with what you said, when you clearly meant the latter on a conceptual level

Nah, just making an observation about how you yourself react to pressure, which is to explode and accuse everyone around you.

again, thank you for proving my point ~
this hs nothing to do with my case on you. you are deflecting

Of course, because only you can do this and only you know exactly what only your 'reaction test' can result into. And let me call BULLSHIT on the 'empirical evidence', since you've only done the test ONCE aside from yourself. This is not empirical in the slightest. It is extremely subjective and you are missing logic and theoretical explanation. How you can think this is solid is beyond me.

misrep, I've done it twice and it's worked both times

when did I say it was solid? it's a base, a starting point. I won't take it seriously if someone who gets caught by the test ends up being obvtown, or if someone starts acting scummy as fuck despite passing the test. the test pinged on you so I started pushing on you and now your reaction to my push has reinforced my read

you're basically just repeating the same thing: that there's no logic or theoretical explanation. why does this even matter? first off I already said WHEN I EXPLAINED THE TEST none of this existed, and you're acting like I didn't. what's the problem with ~anectodal~ evidence? you're acting like I shouldn't even be accusing you at all despite the fact that you've done a shitton of scummy things since then. not sure if this is the correct word but I think it's strawmanning (?)

Sorry, that isn't going to fly. Ice was placed weird as all the scum are normally put at the top of the list and he wasn't. I made an observation, and the fact that I thought LITTLE OF IT does, in fact, MATTER. Now you're changing your test to adapt to the situation, so hark at me about 'empirical' evidence a bit more and we'll see where that gets you.

that's the most bullshit thing I've ever read. let me explain why

Sorry, that isn't going to fly. Ice was placed weird as all the scum are normally put at the top of the list and he wasn't.

this reason is bullshit

I made an observation, and the fact that I thought LITTLE OF IT does, in fact, MATTER.

no it doesn't. the fact that you were taking it seriously matters, and you took it seriously enough to make said observation, even if you thought little of it. why are you trying to tell me how to handle my own reaction test, when 1. you got caught by said test and 2. you clearly don't know how it works?

Now you're changing your test to adapt to the situation, so hark at me about 'empirical' evidence a bit more and we'll see where that gets you.

not only is this really ambiguous, what does this have to do with anything? how does this change the fact that
1. you failed the test
2. when you saw you failed the test you tried to discredit said test so you wouldn't get caught
3. you're misrepping and deflecting in response to my push on you
4. you backpedaled on your stance on me on a quite obvious basis of convenience?
and I know you're going to just try to discredit the test again so let me point out again that 2, 3, and 4 are way stronger than 1 and were obtained by pushing on you, whereas 1 was just a starting point

Last I checked, this was your case against me. If you do have something more substantial on me, please show me.

yet another misrep. my case on you started with the list. however, then you demonstrated obvious scum motivation by trying to discredit the test after you saw you got caught by said test, and then all your responses to my push on you have been misreps, deflections, or otherwise incorrect

So now you've admitted the following things about your test:

1) It has only been done once.
2) There's no specific reaction.
3) You're willing to change it as needs suit you.

Need I say more?

1. is a blatant misrep
2. is BS. there is a specific reaction and that is taking THE LIST seriously. and not only that, why can't I use it in different ways if it seems reasonable? your idea that I can't makes no sense. there is a logical, although weak, basis for thinking ICE may be scum based off the events resulting from THE LIST. this is different from the ~anecdotal~ basis for RC/you scum. sure I had a specific thing in mind when doing the test but if there's smth else that's interesting, even if it wasn't intended, why isn't it valid? you are again trying to discredit the basis for the test, fitting the scum motivation I pointed out earlier
3. see above

[pieguyn]

I'm genuinely getting annoyed by the fact that people are following this dire logic as if it is Word of God. There's so much wrong with it that it is funny, but not so funny as it is sad that people are following it. Newbie games have more logic and critical thinking in it than this.

why are you frustrated that a bunch of people whose alignment you, if town, don't know, are following said wagon?

I'd expect if you were so frustrated that you'd be taking a closer look at the people on said wagon. and if anything if you think my logic is bad you should be really skeptical of said people. why not?

hint: you're talking as if you know said people following me are town

Vote: frog

But hey, if you lynch me, at least I'll have proven this 'test' is bullshit.

this AtE feels fake considering you only have 2 votes on you. squirm much?

There never was a "reaction test", just a bad scum who made a mistake.

Frog, you should vote Pie.

if you want to prove my scumread on you is wrong you'll have to do better than this sry

till then, what do you think of my case on frog?

[pieguyn]

4) Backpedalled on my stance? I've thought you were scum for a while now.

nope. when I questioned your read on me you redacted it saying you at first thought I was "anti-town", not "scum". when you clearly did thought I was scum, as evidenced by the fact that you posted your thoughts on every player in the game, said I was the most ~anti-town~ and then VOTED ME. this is exactly what I meant and now you're trying to cover it up

You have, in fact, misrepped me here; I said you were anti-town because of that, not scum

nice try. fail. die :>

Hope this proves my point.

1. it did not occur during RVS and there was nothing indicating it's not serious. and it wasn't "clearly" intended to be humorous at all. so the natural idea is that it's serious
2. the statement about only scum taking it seriously is almost certainly false
also, this shows how you are grasping at straws. you still haven't discussed the other points in my case and are STILL focusing on said test. however you do this and act like you've completely defeated my case. the point is, in light of all my other points on you (how you showed obv scum motivation after you saw the reasoning for the test, misrepping and deflecting, etc.), the test itself is practically irrelevant. this is exactly what I mean when I say you're strawmanning

and why are you trying to prove a point to someone you're scumreading? if I'm so obvscum and all my logic is complete nonsense as you say, then what is the point of this? the sole purpose of this post is to get people to disagree with my case on you. I don't see any other explanation.

[pieguyn]

Combined both conclusions, I conclude your initial reasoning to vote on frog is weak, which is because he failed the test.

Reading my above argument, would you still consider your test a good one?

If not, you should try again.

yes. it's a starting point bc there's no information. from there I can poke around and get some better reads. from what Rem was saying about RC I'm thinking my initial read on him might have been wrong, and frog's reaction to my push on him was bad. the initial reason, that is, him failing the test, was weak, but it's the best I can do at that point considering no information. that's the whole idea - you get a starting point to investigate from, and see what you find. and now that I've poked around there more I have a way better case on him ~

[pieguyn]

1. fails test
2. when he saw that he failed he tried to discredit said test so he wouldn't get caught. this is obvious scum motivation and needs to be lynched ASAP
3. misreps the fuck out of me and a lot of his answers have been deflective and not really answering my points
4. backpedals on his read on me and then tries to cover it up
5. AtEs and self-votes with only 2 votes on him
6. grasping at straws, including 5
7. acting like my case on him is just said reaction test, and still focusing on disproving said test, when there's far stronger evidence against him. completely ignores said stongrer evidence and acts like he completely 0wned my case on him
8. trying to manipulate people into not believing my case on him

and since you don't seem to believe in the basis for the test, ignore 1 if you want. it shouldn't have an effect on anything else =w=

[pieguyn]

I'm still somewhat busy with RL so I'm basically just trying to digest all the information atm. here's where I'm at

town
pieguyn
Mephistopheles* <- I've liked his pushes on people and him trying to find out what was up with THE LIST seemed like a more town reaction
My Milked Eek
Remembrance <- I think I know what you're getting at with Aegor. I don't think he's scum but if what I'm thinking is true then your logic holds up

null-town
Flameaxe <- liking his "screw-you" attitude. however, I'm not sure if he fakes as scum
Aegor WBOCampfire1104 <- he has the right idea about how THE LIST got reactions. might be scum buddying but meh
don_johnson <- 132

null
hayatoBL
ICEninja
RadiantCowbells <- first pick for 3rd scum although it might be wrong
TunnelVision* <- do smth already. I had a heart attack reading bauss's posts in NY167 and I wanna have that feeling again <3

scum
frog cedolad
Sound of Silence (a hydra of fferyllt and GuyInFreezer) <- ffery has hardly done anything at all this game. IMO it'd make sense if it's bc she rolled scum. I'd also expect her to be pressuring me more which she hasn't done yet, especially if she doesn't agree with the basis behind THE LIST. I have what I think is a meta tell on GIF and there was one post that seemed like town him but not enough data to write them off as town for just that

[pieguyn]

boo
you apparently know my meta, so you should know I like posting concise reads lists. and you also know that I generally respond to questions. so why do you immediately go for that angle instead of asking me more about said reads? that feels really off 0.0

if you want I can elaborate on my reads tomorrow when I'm back from vacation. fwiw I'm not invested in this game at this current moment. I was getting invested with the push on frog, but then vacation took up p much all of my time and p much nothing at all happened in game AND not to mention I've been sick the past few days. I'm almost considering replacing out, but fuck that

[pieguyn]

ugh
I've decided if I need to consider replacing out I should prob just replace out

mod: request replacement

sorry > <