Mini 1648: Mafia in the Noose Factory. (Game Over)

[Zebulin]

VOTE: Boonskiies

You haven't said anything completely ridiculous yet.

...You're Boonskiies.

[Zebulin]

VOTE: Boonskiies

You haven't said anything completely ridiculous yet.

...You're Boonskiies.

soft claiming lover on page 1 isn't ridiculous?

Not for you, no.

[Zebulin]

Clarification for those who haven't played with Boonskiies: In our last game, he hammered without a claim, White Knighted a major scum tell in order to see their reaction, and trolled me for two solid days before I got town to lynch him (we were both Vanilla Townies). I was then lynched in lylo due to Boonskiies' flip, and the game was lost. I still harbor bitter resentment for him over that, and will tunnel the fellow Day 1 so I don't need to worry about his weird, weird playstyle for the rest of the game.

[Zebulin]

@Zeb - Salty much?

Extremely.

Boon: Yeah, my lynch that game was my fault, but I have to blame SOMEONE, right?

[Zebulin]

?????

I'm not claiming, and the reason is that claims Day 1 when the claimee's not actually going to be lynched is horrible strategy for town. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... o_Claiming

Seriously, why is a claim early such a good thing? If I claim VT then nothing is gained and scum have less targets to NK and I I claim a power role then I might not get lynched, but scum DEFINITELY have a nightkill.

BBT: Why is a claim now a good thing?

Slandaar has a point; if we want everyone to claim then we should just massclaim.

[Zebulin]

I mean, if someone is actually, seriously going to hammer me then I'll claim, but just throwing out an intent to hammer to get a claim isn't helping anyone.

[Zebulin]

VOTE: ploben
joined zeb wagon last

This is.....a fact!

I thought we were going to out a PR early and I got all excited...seemed like a great idea at the time

/sarcasm

If you don't like that there was a attempt to force a claim early, why were you on the wagon that tried to force the claim? Why were you the

L-1

in that wagon? VOTE: Ploben

VOTE: ploben
joined zeb wagon last

This is.....a fact!

I thought we were going to out a PR early and I got all excited...seemed like a great idea at the time

/sarcasm

You have to use blue text if it's sarcasm.

Right, Zebulin?

Of course not. Blue is a terrible color.

Rereading.

17 - Zeb, this post implies your vote is random.

20 - However, in this post you're greatly over-explaining your vote. It doesn't seem so random any more. Why did you try to cover this vote under the disguise of RVS?

That was a RVS vote, and I don't know why you're asking a rhetorical question. (There's no way for me to answer that question without implying I was hiding a vote under RVS when I was not.) I was just having fun talking to Boonskiies and trying to get the salt out of my system before the game had really started. (Also, I didn't mean to say Boon is a VI. He's a really good player, just extremely confusing.)

I did vote Zeb for a different reason then to force a claim. I figured, based on his past mafia experience, there was no way he was claiming. I was genuinely interested to see what would people would say after Zeb went L-1. And I'll tell you what, the posts after my vote proved a good read.

I can go into details if you'd like.

Please do.

[Zebulin]

Some of the other posts I just found personally amusing and really can't add anything insightful.

@Zebulin

Post 106

Oh.

UNVOTE:

[Zebulin]

That looks terrible, and House needs to get into the game.

What looks terrible?

[Zebulin]

77 - A claim would have provided information and we would have been able to analyse your wagon and progress the game from there.

Tell me, why is a claim now so different to a claim in 20 pages time? Won't a claim in 20 pages time still alert scum to a PR? Won't a claim in 20 pages time still give scum less targets to night kill?

The reason a claim now is different then a claim in 20 pages' time is that if anyone other than me would die later in the day, it would be 2 claims the scum has to work with. If I claim PR right now, we're all screwed, and if I claim VT it accomplishes nothing for town and reduces scum's lynchpool. This is an acceptable drawback to avoid a PR lynch, but

I wasn't going to be lynched

. Why would we want to give scum information that doesn't benefit town but benefits scum?

Also, why are you PR fishing? How is that a good idea? (That's not a rhetorical question. I actually want to know how, in your mind, that is a good idea for town)

tip: If you're going to post 7 lines, could you post those 7 lines all in one post instead of 7 separate posts? Thanks.

[Zebulin]

My reasons for wanting Zeb to claim are...get ready...I was PR hunting. Come at me.

I'm not PR fishing.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Zebulin]

My reasons for wanting Zeb to claim are...get ready...I was PR hunting. Come at me.

I'm not PR fishing.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

VOTE: Zebulin

???

[Zebulin]

My reasons for wanting Zeb to claim are...get ready...I was PR hunting. Come at me.

I'm not PR fishing.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

VOTE: Zebulin

???

You make zero effort to ask about the thoughts behind the perceived contradiction and zero effort to build a case against the player you're voting on, and simply hope people will sheep you.

So I returned the favor.

If you want me to vote BBT, you'll have to do better than that.

Well, BBT outright lied. I'm wasn't trying to build a case on him, I was trying to pressure him to get a scumslip (if he's town there's no harm), but you ruined it.

BBT: Why is there the contradiction pointed out two posts ago?
House: Why are you assuming I want people to sheep me? (Don't sheep me. I'm not confident enough in my reads right now.)

[Zebulin]

My reasons for wanting Zeb to claim are...get ready...I was PR hunting. Come at me.

I'm not PR fishing.

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

VOTE: Zebulin

???

You make zero effort to ask about the thoughts behind the perceived contradiction and zero effort to build a case against the player you're voting on, and simply hope people will sheep you.

So I returned the favor.

If you want me to vote BBT, you'll have to do better than that.

Well, BBT outright lied. I'm wasn't trying to build a case on him, I was trying to pressure him to get a scumslip (if he's town there's no harm), but you ruined it.

BBT: Why is there the contradiction pointed out two posts ago?
House: Why are you assuming I want people to sheep me? (Don't sheep me. I'm not confident enough in my reads right now.)

A naked vote isn't pressure. If you had questioned him in the aforementioned post, it would have been pressure.

Your post was just, "Look err'body, vote this!"

No. No, it wasn't. I'm voting BBT because PR-fishing is extremely scummy and I have no idea why he wants to do it.

In some cases, VI play is the same as scumplay, and I think they are the same here. I also think BBT is a skilled player, judging from our last game together. Assuming he isn't a VI, his PR-fishing is scumplay.

Can someone who disagrees with the BBT wagon please explain why anything anyone has done so far is more suspicious than bad logic and blatant PR-hunting? I don't think meta is an acceptable excuse for behaviour which actively attempts to decrease town's chances of winning.

What I mean by bad logic: acting like it doesn't matter whether PRs are outed now or many days later, acting like wanting PRs outed at all isn't pro-scum.

BBT is town because Zebulin is scum.

Vote Zebulin and you'll see I'm right.

Why is the wagon on me accusing me of trying to get sheep, and then trying to get sheep?

[Zebulin]

BBT: If I'm just being a idiot, and PR fishing is good for town, could you explain in detail?

[Zebulin]

111 - Zeb, it's very much not a rhetorical question. I want an answer. Your post was serious as well, I'm not buying you were having 'fun'.

It IS a rhetorical question. There's no way I can answer that without implying it was a serious vote. IT. WAS. NOT.

You can "not buy it" if you want, but that doesn't change the intention of the vote.

[Zebulin]

I'm not sure it would be wise to lynch a psudo-claimed lover this early in the game.

I'm pretty sure Boonskiies was just saying things to get us out of RVS, which is good. Correct me if I'm wrong Boon.

I'm not really thinking BBT is scum as much now. It seems he genuinely thinks the PR-fishing was a good idea, and I think scum would've backtracked. BBT didn't. I still disagree on the point of PR-fishing. UNVOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

VOTE: tip I just ISO's everyone to see who's contributing the most, and tip has by far the least content per post. (House and MonkeyMan576 need to have more content too. Ponystar17 has a ton of content per post.) I'm not actually sure if he's posted anything that's productive this game.

tip: Could you post more content? It's better to have 1 content post than 5 non-content posts per day imo.

[Zebulin]

215 - Ploben, you won't be lynching me. You still didn't answer my question either. I'll even quote it for you to have another go at;

You think scum is on the same page as you?

You also want scum to help you solve the game?

Nah, you're talking to him as if he is town.

My post, to put it into context, was in relation to this;

I'm curious here. You're saying when you post them you're more apt to ride those reads until the end. You're saying you have 3 suspects you're confident in. But you don't want to post them?

Why not? I think we're on the same page but why not share your information and help us solve this?

BTW, I'm thinking your short list includes BBT & Pony. Not sure about you're 3rd.

Specifically, the bolded part seems to imply that he thinks Slandaar is town.

221 - Random, I have no idea who you're talking to here.

Also, if you suspect me, why is your vote still on MonkeyMan? I've seen no explanation of why your vote on him should have turned serious - he was your RVS vote, unless I'm wrong.

This is a good point.

My current impression of BBT: buddying me quite a bit, regardless of alignment. Could be a genuine observation that I look town to him, but he didn't exactly pick my towniest post to comment on, so I kind of doubt that. Might be buddying me so that I unvote him/think he's town, might be buddying me so that I look like scum.

Can you show me where you think I have been buddying you? I'm pretty sure I have only stated that I think you're town.

233 - Pony, do you think it's good play for scum to openly admit they are PR-hunting? Further, I was not PR-hunting. That would be ridiculous.

You should take option B.

I'm not sure why you need posts to be 'wordy' either. Personally, I prefer much shorter, concise posts. Makes the game easier to read (ironic given I'm about to post this wall)

234 - Will lynch Tip for this.

235 - Will lynch Luca for this.

239 - What a fantastically useless question, Ploben. Obvious filler is obvious, obvious fake scum-hunting is obvious.

243 - You're damn right I did. Somebody should always be at L-1 & there should also always be two competing wagons.

249 - Zeb, when is PR-fishing ever a good idea? Like, this is the worst reason to unvote someone I have ever read in my life.

Zeb & Ploben are scum.

Slandaar might be the third (this is based on associatives though so need more information before I commit to it)

So, you've been PR-fishing the entire game, defended your PR-fishing actions, and now you're saying PR-fishing is scummy and everyone should vote me because of unvoting you? What?

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

tip has a point in that you shouldn't scumread players for not being able to play. At least Luca's honest about lurking.

[Zebulin]

215 - Ploben, you won't be lynching me. You still didn't answer my question either. I'll even quote it for you to have another go at;

You think scum is on the same page as you?

You also want scum to help you solve the game?

Nah, you're talking to him as if he is town.

My post, to put it into context, was in relation to this;

I'm curious here. You're saying when you post them you're more apt to ride those reads until the end. You're saying you have 3 suspects you're confident in. But you don't want to post them?

Why not? I think we're on the same page but why not share your information and help us solve this?

BTW, I'm thinking your short list includes BBT & Pony. Not sure about you're 3rd.

Specifically, the bolded part seems to imply that he thinks Slandaar is town.

221 - Random, I have no idea who you're talking to here.

Also, if you suspect me, why is your vote still on MonkeyMan? I've seen no explanation of why your vote on him should have turned serious - he was your RVS vote, unless I'm wrong.

This is a good point.

My current impression of BBT: buddying me quite a bit, regardless of alignment. Could be a genuine observation that I look town to him, but he didn't exactly pick my towniest post to comment on, so I kind of doubt that. Might be buddying me so that I unvote him/think he's town, might be buddying me so that I look like scum.

Can you show me where you think I have been buddying you? I'm pretty sure I have only stated that I think you're town.

233 - Pony, do you think it's good play for scum to openly admit they are PR-hunting? Further, I was not PR-hunting. That would be ridiculous.

You should take option B.

I'm not sure why you need posts to be 'wordy' either. Personally, I prefer much shorter, concise posts. Makes the game easier to read (ironic given I'm about to post this wall)

234 - Will lynch Tip for this.

235 - Will lynch Luca for this.

239 - What a fantastically useless question, Ploben. Obvious filler is obvious, obvious fake scum-hunting is obvious.

243 - You're damn right I did. Somebody should always be at L-1 & there should also always be two competing wagons.

249 - Zeb, when is PR-fishing ever a good idea? Like, this is the worst reason to unvote someone I have ever read in my life.

Zeb & Ploben are scum.

Slandaar might be the third (this is based on associatives though so need more information before I commit to it)

So, you've been PR-fishing the entire game, defended your PR-fishing actions, and now you're saying PR-fishing is scummy and everyone should vote me because of unvoting you? What?

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

tip has a point in that you shouldn't scumread players for not being able to play. At least Luca's honest about lurking.

lynch this.

Reasons?

[Zebulin]

@tip

What did randomidget lie about? Him voting for you first? I love pictures but please explain?

This was the fist vote for tip besides tip jokingly voting himself in RVS:

VOTE: tip

For being such a wonderfully hypocritical lurky fluffmeister.

In the very next post, randomidget says this:

VOTE: tip
I'm following house

On page 11, randomidget mentions that:

i wish to shed light on how, instead, it is - pretty transparently - a shitty retaliatory tunnel to being finger of suspicion-ed by myself

I voted you first.

which is clearly a lie. tip was pointing out the lie.

The question is, is that a scumslip or just a stupidslip? (randomidget's not a VI. He was killed Night 1 in a game we shared.)

[Zebulin]

263 - Zeb, I'm not scum-reading anyone for not being able to play. Can you show me where I have done that?

Here:

234 - Will lynch Tip for this.

235 - Will lynch Luca for this.

It was small, but I was wondering why you did it. Why did you post that?

Working on a readslist.

[Zebulin]

Zeb, that doesn't show me scum-reading Tip and Luca, it shows I would be willing to lynch them.

Kaboose, I feel good that Ploben is scum. I would prefer to lynch a scum slot than an inactive slot.

Should their play not improve, I will gladly lynch either tomorrow. Especially House.

Fair enough. Policy lynching inactives D1 isn't a good idea IMO, as they could be replaced, drop out, or start playing the game actively.

[Zebulin]

Readslist:

Very Town:

Ponystar17

Town:

Kaboose

Leaning Town:

Boonskiies

Null:

randomidget, Slandaar, House

Lurk:

Luca Blight, Always Mafia

Leaning Scum:

MonkeyMan576, tip

Scum:

BlueBloodedToffee, ploben

Very Scum:

My read on BBT keeps waffling from Null to Scum as I try to figure out whether he believes in the early pressure PR fish or if he's just doing that to give scum information. Boonskiies and MonkeyMan576 are gut reads.

P-Edit: Scummy. Scummier than you, actually. My vote is on you because it gets town more info right now.

[Zebulin]

Zeb, that doesn't show me scum-reading Tip and Luca, it shows I would be willing to lynch them.

Kaboose, I feel good that Ploben is scum. I would prefer to lynch a scum slot than an inactive slot.

Should their play not improve, I will gladly lynch either tomorrow. Especially House.

Zeb, that doesn't show me scum-reading Tip and Luca, it shows I would be willing to lynch them.

Kaboose, I feel good that Ploben is scum. I would prefer to lynch a scum slot than an inactive slot.

Should their play not improve, I will gladly lynch either tomorrow. Especially House.

Fair enough. Policy lynching inactives D1 isn't a good idea IMO, as they could be replaced, drop out, or start playing the game actively.

You both need to answer the below plz.

Who said I wanted to lynch nonactives? I want to lynch tip who has been active and useless.

My comment was addressed to BBT, not you.

BBT:

Thanks for the bussing advice, I really appreciate it!

VOTE: Ploben (Real reason: the BBT wagon's not going through today, and the Ploben one might.)

I want a lynch on BBT or Ploben (BBT is scummy, Ploben outright lied) and I'm okay with one on tip or a lurkslot.

[Zebulin]

@Zeb

I'd like to know what you think I lied about? That way you can ask me about it and I'll dodge the question.

/sarcasm

You said the early wagon on me was scummy and people shouldn't be on it, but you yourself were on that wagon.

It is anti-town to be on a wagon that you think people shouldn't be on. If you were on that wagon, logically you would think it's a good wagon to be on. However, you said yourself on numerous occasions that that was a bad wagon to be on. Either you're lying, or you're on wagons that you personally believe people shouldn't be on; both very anti-town.

P-Edit: Slandaar: You're right there, but that could also just be someone missing the game. Every post since then by MonkeyMan has had at least a little content, compared to someone like tip. Are there any more things you find scummy about Monkey?

[Zebulin]

If people are going to make bad accusations or bad votes I have every right and obligation to point them out.

Slanndar is being really nitpicky and using the "throwing crap and see what sticks" scum hunting method, which is not really hunting.

Quotes?

[Zebulin]

I mean, quote where Slandaar fake scumhunted or made bad accusations/votes.

[Zebulin]

I missed a couple but basically the point is:
Monkey made his RVS vote then didn't do anything until action had happened. This is like scum play by the book. Make the vote then let everyone accuse each other and bam.

I don't feel like going over the rest of Monkeys posts. Needless to say they are not good.

Basically he is saying I am being lazy for not crap-posting day 1 like a lot of people do, then he admits he is lazier than me.

Where in his ISO?

[Zebulin]

also obligatory free-of-charge idiot list that may, or may not, encompass mafiosi:

- house
- kaboose
- house
- zeublin
- house

249 is pretty scummy. Between trying to townread Boon's for silly reasons like being silly and over-active, townreading BBT for even sillier reasons, and (incorrectly) accusing tip of contributing less than House/Monkey I don't like on line of it. Boon's actions in RVS are slightly scummy, BBT is aggressive and experienced enough to stick to his guns (made easier by him making a fairly minute distinction between his motivation and scum motivation), and tip has said enough to associate people to him should he flip scum.

Readslist:

This list forgot me. I don't like that. Also, it makes Pony super-town.
. Why is Monkey 'leaning scum'? Why is Boon 'leaning town'? Gut reads are excuses not to explain your actions.

All the terrible around Zebulin is cancelled out by my excellence.

Indeed. Your interesting play this game have shown me the light.

unvote

Vote: Zeb

P.S. I'm not happy with Plob, but why are we actively trying to lynch him for having a different train of thought?
P.P.S. BBT, how do you feel about being on wagons with your scumreads? Are you scumreading Zeb?
P.P.P.S. Boons should be paid more attention to.
^^Lul House.

I forgot you. Sorry about that. You'd be null leaning scum for lack of content per post, which I find to be EXTREMELY useful in determining scum. Your points mostly make sense though.

You could've just asked for in-depth reads of Boonskiies and MonkeyMan. Boon is leaning town due to 1. his interactions with other players seem like genuine scumhunting, and 2. Meta. (BBT will hate me for that.)

MonkeyMan: I don't like his tone with Slandaar, it seems way too aggressive. This post

It's not smart to make a mountain out of a molehill for arguments you don't think are worthy of it.

also seems like scum telling scum what to do.

Also, pisskop, BBT, could you guys please stop telling people to sheep you? It's pointless and annoying. I know I've played terribly, but at least let me counterpoint before demanding sheep. Lynching me D1 (specifically D1) is also the worst possible thing for town to do right now. *softclaims strong PR*

[Zebulin]

Someone asked me why I'm townreading Pony so hardly. The reason is that all his reads make sense from a town perspective, he's genuinly asking questions with all the players, he's posting the most content per post of anyone, and he just sounds town when talking to Slandaar and MonkeyMan. (When I misspelled townreading as twonreading and I right-clicked it to change it to the correct spelling, the only thing that autocorrect came up with was "misreading". I wonder if that's a sign...)

Based on the friendly tone of the conversation between BBT and MonkeyMan on page 17 I think they're on the same alignment. Not sure if that alignment's town or scum though.

Voice of the town...voice of the town...that's all I see in BBT's posts. Instead of enlightening town he just wants to lead it.

Elaborate.

[Zebulin]

Nope, your logic is still bad.

Yeah.

My

logic is bad.

Yup.

[Zebulin]

Woah woah woah.

Let's not have a flame war.

[Zebulin]

Last game, 2 people were talking like you two are now. Then it escalated. 1 of them got banned for a month. I don't want that to happen again. *shrug*

[Zebulin]

I just reread ploben's ISO, and he actually answered my question on the L-1 before I voted him, and I was just being stupid. UNVOTE: Ploben
VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee for reasons already mentioned.

House: How is ploben scum? Is there something I'm missing?

Reads:

Very Town:
Town:

Ponystar17, Kaboose

Leaning Town:

Boonskiies, Slandaar

Null:

ploben, Luca Blight, House, pisskop

Leaning Scum:

MonkeyMan576

Scum:

tip, BlueBoodedToffee

Very Scum:

[Zebulin]

VOTE: tipEVERYTHING is Pony's case makes sense.

Clarification for read on Ploben: I thought he was dodging questions, I ISO'd him, and he wasn't dodging questions. Sure, he's avoiding the game, but nowhere near on the level of tip or House.

Random is null leaning town, I forgot to put him in.

Monkey: Why is random scum?

House, Boon: Why are you two buddying (other than friendliness)?

[Zebulin]

Tip, could you actually refute Ponystar's case instead of calling her a idiot?

Could you refrain from calling me the epitome of stupid?

Could you just be nice during the game for once?

Thanks!

[Zebulin]

These are all the personal insults by tip in the last hour.

Spoiler:

VOTE: tipEVERYTHING is Pony's case makes sense.

you're the literal epitome of stupid

Analysis of tip:
He self-votes after RVS ends, for no apparent reason.

that was my first-vote. it was a Joke; an insincere post. after much deliberation i've decided not to run your socially-bankrupt self through further definitions of said word.

and also,

it was my first-post ergo it was part of the fucking random-voting stage.

and also,

i held it for less than five fucking minutes

He then theorizes that Zeb and Boon are both scum, but rather than voting one of them like a townie, he keeps his vote on himself.

reading comprehension failure alert

read my post again. then read it one more time. after this mentally taxing task come back to me.

He then posts more fluff and cross-votes randomidget - very shortly after a wagon against random begins to gather weight (ploben hops on). I really don't like that he jumped into the third spot on a bandwagon which looked like it might have been gathering momentum at the time.

update: ponystar17 is also chronologically inept

see: timeline

to reiterate: i was the first to issue a finger of suspicion [FoS] on randomidget and ploben was actually concurring with me.

to rephrase: user that names themselves after a Pony and a celestial object is an idiot

tip then claims that he was actually pointing out bad play and scumreads (which he obviously wasn't)

once again ponystar exhibits her intellectual shortcomings

this is literally the most fabricated bullshit i've ever read and to think ponystar was acknowledged with a fragment of credibility is an indictment of the poor quality of this playerbase.

update!! ponystar's still stupid. 300-odd words down

in conclusion: user Ponystar [again, haha what a dumb username] [1] lied throughout the macro-argument, [2] exhibited her lack of reading comprehension skills, [3] elicited quite frankly the dumbest conclusions from posts, [4] is stupid, [5] is perhaps mafia, but also stupid and [6] said the untruth, again.

That's too many.

[Zebulin]

At this point I think tip's the scummiest player based on his response to the wagon on him, though that read is influenced by tip calling me an idiot. I don't like being called an idiot.

ploben's vote looks insanely oppertunistic. Then again, a vote on tip at that point in the game is more oppertunistic than a vote on randomidget, assuming tip and ploben aren't on the same team. If tip flips scum (if he's lynched), then ploben's probably scum also, as trying to counterwagon at this point in the game off tip when tip is scum is extremely scummy.

BBT's looking more town due to his extreme activity. I don't think scum would be that active, even if they had the time.

Could someone recap the case on midget?

[Zebulin]

Is no one noticing the fact that tip starts playinf when a wagon forms on him? No one? Ok then...

This.

Can someone just hammer tip already? We have less than half a day left on the clock.

[Zebulin]

Can someone just hammer tip already? We have less than half a day left on the clock.

Deadline has been paused,

Scummy scum needs votes

unvote
vote: Zeb

Replacements have been filled in 12 minutes before. All I'm saying is we need to hurry up.

[Zebulin]

Luca actually being pro-town...

Tip: Midget is scum.
Midget: nu uh vote Tip!!!
Tip: vote midget
Midget: OMGUS! scum!
Tip: ...

Lynch midget and be happy.

I think tip is scummier due to his interactions with Ponystar. If we lynch tip or Randomidget today, their flip will probably determine the alignment of the other player. That argument screams town v mafia imo.

[Zebulin]

I like the ploben wagon more than the tip wagon. Zeb and random could easily be scum, all four on ploben look pretty town to me.

There's only 3 on ploben: you, BlueBloodedToffee, and Boonskiies.

[Zebulin]

if you are voting someone, tell me why. I will assume that if you post after me asking for this and you dont explain (or restate) your vote/case that you dont really believe your case/vote and that is scummy.

MM? PIss? Zeb?

Will do after school. I want a tip lynch and am ok with a ploben (scummy), randomidget (gives us tons of insight on tip's alignment), or MonkeyMan (scummy) lynch in that order.

[Zebulin]

if you are voting someone, tell me why. I will assume that if you post after me asking for this and you dont explain (or restate) your vote/case that you dont really believe your case/vote and that is scummy.

MM? PIss? Zeb?

Will do after school. I want a tip lynch and am ok with a ploben (scummy), randomidget (gives us tons of insight on tip's alignment), or MonkeyMan (scummy) lynch in that order.

This post makes me think that Randomidget is town and Zebulin would like to either get tip lynched today or use Randomidget's flip to sell his lynch later.

VOTE: Zebulin

Of course I want to get tip lynched! I think he's scum! You want to lynch the people you think are scum, don't you?

[Zebulin]

if you are voting someone, tell me why. I will assume that if you post after me asking for this and you dont explain (or restate) your vote/case that you dont really believe your case/vote and that is scummy.

MM? PIss? Zeb?

Alright.

To summarize, the reason I think tip is scum is the amazingly small contributions in every post he has posted. He let's the town stall, and he doesn't have post full of content for anything except defending himself or lashing out at the in-game attackers (mainly me and Ponystar). While the low content could just be a player not that intrested in the game, the huge jump in effort when he's the most pressured player in the game strikes me as really suspicious. He also has used strawman defenses on numerous occasions, mainly toward Ponystar ("This player's stupid, so all her points are invalid!") and tunnels the players on his wagon.

Very Town:
Town:

Ponystar17, Kaboose

Leaning Town:

Slandaar, Boonskiies, curiouskarmadog

Null:

randomidget, House, pisskop, BlueBloodedToffee

Leaning Scum:

MonkeyMan576

Scum:

ploben, tip

Very Scum:

[Zebulin]

tip, stop calling people stupid. Thank you!

I prefer tip to ploben, but I'll vote him if it's that or a no lynch. He's my 2nd scumpick anyway.

House: Could you post your full case on me, preferably before the end of the day? I feel like there's something I'm forgetting to address in your argument.

[Zebulin]

if you are voting someone, tell me why. I will assume that if you post after me asking for this and you dont explain (or restate) your vote/case that you dont really believe your case/vote and that is scummy.

MM? PIss? Zeb?

Will do after school. I want a tip lynch and am ok with a ploben (scummy), randomidget (gives us tons of insight on tip's alignment), or MonkeyMan (scummy) lynch in that order.

This post makes me think that Randomidget is town and Zebulin would like to either get tip lynched today or use Randomidget's flip to sell his lynch later.

VOTE: Zebulin

What I was saying with this post is that I think you, as scum, are worried about tip being a threat later, and are moving against him now since he is vulnerable due to his atrocious behavior.

I also believe that you are using Random as a proxy to continue your salvo against him if you fail today.

I'm not a fan of lynching people that seem so obv scum on D1 simply because I fall into that category myself most of the time. I think it's much more productive to look into those who go after such easy targets.

"Easy targets" in this game are those who appear scummy.
Scum are more likely to appear scummy.

You appear scummy more often than not. That sucks. I appear scummy more often not too. We have to get over it and "act town" even if we are town, because our natural manner of speaking is lynchbait. It's what I did after my first couple games. (I've only had 4 full games, so I'm not an expert on the subject.) Hey, I haven't been mislynched this game yet

[Zebulin]

"Easy targets" in this game are those who appear scummy.
Scum are more likely to appear scummy.

I fucking loled my pants at the infantile reasoning in this post.

If scum appeared scummy, D1 wouldn't have a track record of being mislynches.

The reason people use scumtells is because scum are more likely to scumtell than town.

Oh, scum are more likely to be town, so I should vote the towniest player in the game, so town I know he's town (so he must be scum!)

VOTE: Zebulin

VOTE: tip

[Zebulin]

"Easy targets" in this game are those who appear scummy.
Scum are more likely to appear scummy.

I fucking loled my pants at the infantile reasoning in this post.

If scum appeared scummy, D1 wouldn't have a track record of being mislynches.

The reason people use scumtells is because scum are more likely to scumtell than town.

Oh, scum are more likely to be town, so I should vote the towniest player in the game, so town I know he's town (so he must be scum!)

VOTE: Zebulin

VOTE: tip

Are you 7?

Serious question.

No.

This...

Oh, scum are more likely to be town, so I should vote the towniest player in the game, so town I know he's town (so he must be scum!)

VOTE: Zebulin

is a direct misrep of

I'm not a fan of lynching people that seem so obv scum on D1 simply because I fall into that category myself most of the time. I think it's much more productive to look into those who go after such easy targets.

I was actually being sarcastic in regards to this post:

"Easy targets" in this game are those who appear scummy.
Scum are more likely to appear scummy.

I fucking loled my pants at the infantile reasoning in this post.

If scum appeared scummy, D1 wouldn't have a track record of being mislynches.

[Zebulin]

I was actually being sarcastic in regards to this post:

"Easy targets" in this game are those who appear scummy.
Scum are more likely to appear scummy.

I fucking loled my pants at the infantile reasoning in this post.

If scum appeared scummy, D1 wouldn't have a track record of being mislynches.

Which was posted in direct support of 698, which I am certain you are aware of as it was only a couple posts before 700.

Bolded line I was referring to. What I'm saying is it seems really counterintuitive to assume people who look scummy aren't scummy, and that the people who try to get scummy-looking people lynched are scummy. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[Zebulin]

House: You're totally right. I need to reevaluate my reads. However,tip has scummy motivation like active lurking and strawman defenses on top of being scummy (as pointed out by Kaboose), so I'm not changing my vote.

[Zebulin]

House: You're totally right. I need to reevaluate my reads. However,tip has scummy motivation like active lurking and strawman defenses on top of being scummy (as pointed out by Kaboose), so I'm not changing my vote.

You don't know what scum motivation is.

Active lurking and strawman defenses are actions, thus by definition they cannot be motives.

Motives drive actions, actions do not define motives.

You are so hung up on what your eyes see that you don't care about what he might want to accomplish.

Kaboose looks far more interesting to me.

tip: What do you want to accomplish?

House: Why does Kaboose look interesting?

[Zebulin]

Intent To Hammer: Ploben

The other two lynches aren't going to happen, and we need a lynch. He is looking pretty gosh darn scummy right now anyway.

Now for an actual post (posting this early so people can see it early).

[Zebulin]

It's actually L-2, just reread, but I think House would change his vote back to his top scumread.

[Zebulin]

Deadline: (expired on 2015-03-11 19:13:20)

Reminder.

ploben, you have 1 hour to claim.

Intent to hammer.

EBWOP

(and I am only giving 1 hour to allow time for brief discussion after the claim if it is warranted)

Why 1 hour?

I'll be at the computer in 5, I can hammer then if you're not at the keyboard. If I'm lying about this then lynch me tomorrow. We have 9 hours.

[Zebulin]

Just to clarify I still want tip lynched.

update that facts are still being ignored by prepubscent user Zebulin, Kaboose and Ponystar

Yeah, no.

it looks like they don't even care about overtly stating and/or following reads that've been blatantly tailored, despite being called out

I can't respond to rhetorical questions without looking blatantly scummy, because you're asking rhetorical questions. Those are anti-town.

VOTE: randomidget

Screw it, there's your midget vote. It's purely compromise, as I am reading ploben and Kaboose as scum.

Why? Ploben was a serious wagon! My read on you jumped from null to town to null (P-Edit: to leaning town) in 1 day.

618 - Zeb, tell me how Tip vs Random is town vs mafia.

Probably should've done this earlier.

The way I see it, town versus town arguments are arguments between players based around circumstantial evidence like reads, and neither side is usually gunning for the other, instead trying to get reads. If the scumread seems town throughout the argument, then the argument drops. If the scumread seems like mafia, then he's probably mafia. Town versus mafia arguments tend to focuse around hard evidence like lies or obvious scumtells, and both sides are desperately trying to get the other lynched. The way mafia can spin a town hating them to its favor is OMGUS the townie (or see the townie coming and accuse him/her first) and fill the pages with lots of filler text no one but the accused quite understands. This is what I think's going on with tip and randomidget. The troublesome part is figuring out who's right and who's BSing.

652 - What?!? Zeb, you're OK with lynching Random because, in your opinion, it gives you insight into

one

players alignment? Are you serious?

Like, Monkey is scummy and he comes

after

Random in your lynch order? Wow.

658 - Interested in your change of reads here Zeb. Firstly, why have I moved from town to null?

Secondly, if Tip vs Random is town vs mafia, and you're scum-reading Tip...why is Random null? That surely makes him town, no?

tip v random: random is tunneling and I don't like it. (scumtell) I think he's town because I think tip's scum. (towntell) Evens out as null. I feel like tip gives more insight into random than random does.

Random's lynch, if it happens, would give insight in to basically everyone, it just would give the most insight into tip. It also gives insight into slandaar, you, and basically everyone on his wagon.

Monkey should come before random in lynch order, that was a mindfart.

[Zebulin]

Am I L-2? OK, cool.

We're just going to pretend it's ok for everyone else to vote jump? OK, cool.

Claim?

[Zebulin]

No

Why not?

[Zebulin]

629 - Pony, same question to you. What tells you that

one

of Tip and Random is scum?

I'm really disliking Pony's recent posts.

630 - I'm sorry Slandaar, none of those are alignment indicative.

633 - Really don't like this post. Just hits me as scum and it's hard to explain.

637 - Why is Tip so town to you now Monkey?

651 - Pony, the amount of posturing you're doing to join either a Ploben or a Monkey wagon is frighteningly scummy. I'm really disliking your recent posts. You keep stating how scummy Ploben and Monkey are whilst sitting on Tip (the largest wagon I should point out) the whole time.

652 - What?!? Zeb, you're OK with lynching Random because, in your opinion, it gives you insight into

one

players alignment? Are you serious?

Like, Monkey is scummy and he comes

after

Random in your lynch order? Wow.

655 - Yay, House is doing something. I like this post.

658 - Interested in your change of reads here Zeb. Firstly, why have I moved from town to null?

Secondly, if Tip vs Random is town vs mafia, and you're scum-reading Tip...why is Random null? That surely makes him town, no?

660 - Pisskop, what info do you expect to gain from Ploben's lynch? Not sure how you're coming up with nulls on both slots either.

669 - This is weak from Pony. A reaction test? Are you serious? What reactions where you trying to elicit?

More posturing to join Ploben wagon as well. Your last few posts have been pretty scummy. More than pretty scummy actually.

I believe that one of tip and random is scum because of the way they interacted early on - I find it hard to believe that they're the same alignment. I can elaborate D2 if you want, but it's 11PM where I am right now and I have to go to bed soon.

I've repeated that I think

all three of them are scum.

I've already said before why I think tip is scum, and he hasn't really said anything which doesn't fall under a complaint I've had about him before. I'm not mentioning tip as much because I'd just be saying the same thing over and over again. I do think it's as good of a wagon as the ploben one and better than the MonkeyMan one, there's just more new posts and more new things I've noticed from those two.

With regards to the reaction test, I was trying to make agreeing with the tip wagon as threatening as possible to scum!karma. Obviously it didn't work - they noticed, which makes it a failed reaction test regardless of alignment (and not something I'll be trying again this game). I'm not saying it was a good move, and I am sorry. It was the wrong thing to do in hindsight - I shouldn't have done it. The first part of this sentence is explanation, I am not trying to excuse my poor judgement.

Posturing? No, I'm just not vote-hopping willy-nilly. I'd feel pretty ridiculous if I just hopped back and forth for no reason, and I think both are equally valid. I said I'd go for the one with more votes at the end of the day and I'm sticking with it.

VOTE: ploben
L-1. I feel entirely okay with someone hammering.

You're L-1, Ploben.

[Zebulin]

unvote.

gg no re k thx

VOTE: Ploben

House has intent to hammer. Claim.

[Zebulin]

As VT, ploben, you're wasting time, and if you're a PR you need to claim so we can switch wagons before deadline. Stop stalling.

[Zebulin]

****.

[Zebulin]

ploben, the refusal to claim was really, really stupid.

House thought you would never claim.

(He could still be scum BSing right now anyway)

[Zebulin]

VOTE: tip

Trust me when I say I KNOW this guy's scum.

[Zebulin]

GG all.
I guess it was extremely beneficial that the vig shot a power role. Nice job cleaning up for town curiouskarmadog.

[Zebulin]

Another game, another Boonskiies misread.

[Zebulin]

Thank you for modding.

[Zebulin]

WAIT.

I just realized, more than a month after the game, that House's PR claim could've been disproven.

Town knew Kop and Silverwolf were masons at the end of Night 2, and House wasn't going to be the Day 3 lynch. A reall town 2-shot Jailkeeper would've kept his remaining shot andused it Night 3 on the remaining mason. It would've been in town's best interest to do that. Even if House didn't believe the Kop-SIlverwolf mason claim, he wouldn't have "wasted" a jailkeep on Silverwolf, since Kop would've been the one to fakeclaim in townHouse's eyes.

How did town miss that?

[Zebulin]

Why would I have kept my shot instead of protecting a mason? That makes no sense.

Wolfie was the towniest player in the game on top of being confirmed town, she was the obvious NK choice (which is why I argued against killing her in the scum PT)

Leaving a town as hell Mason out to dry like that would be stupid.

Because there was the chance of the mafia hitting Kop instead, like you did.

Better for a confirmed protect Night 3 then a unconfirmed protect Night 2.

[Zebulin]

Because none of that was this game?

oh