Mini 1652: Sweet Dreams - Game Over!

[Gliffie]

What's up guys? I've actually been following this game since its start in anticipation of replacing in. Some practical info first: I've played with Johnny, West and Aristophanes (and Cheetory for that matter) on other sites a lot (Ari not that much), so I know them decently well. I'm also on central European time, so I may appear a bit out of sync with you in NA (I see Dooku is EU and TJM is WIB though). However, that't won't be a problem as day cycles here are very long and my sleep schedule is pretty fucked anyways.


I'll go through the player list and share the thoughts that I have gathered from my lurking

Aeronaut/me!

- This is pretty funny actually because for me it's like Aeronaut has been killed and flipped, as opposed to me knowing the slot's alignment from the start. If you want to know what Aeronaut flipped, I encourage you to ask me. The answer might shock you!

TJM

- Oh dear, not much happened here, did it? Bad bji vote and some not very interesting questions. I eagerly await future contributions.

evilpacman

- Can't find much to disagree with here. 208 seems very town to me.

Nickname/Ari

- I was offered to replace into this, but I wanted to be VT for once so I passed. The first post 53 gave me really bad scum vibes and the votes are awful. Ari's post is fine I guess, but I don't agree that Johnny is good.

SilverWolf

- Seems fine.

Dooku

- Fine except for his Nickname vote reasoning. That's dumb

Johnny

- Not very impressed. I agree with 423. Lots of snarky hot air. I look forward to the inevitable day 2 (mis?)lynch.

bji

- Some really dumb stuff here. Newbieness makes him hard to read.

VDA

- Looks promising. Not sure about the SilverWolf case.

Prolapsed Brain

- Not a fan. Seems to enjoy roleplaying more than the actual game. Do something.

Lapsa

- Actually not as bad as I initially thought. Could be fun, as opposed to P. Brain (ayyy)

pisskop

- Was, as 37 says, more mean than aggressive in the beginning. Not sure what to make of the Aeronaunt quarrel, seemed a bit dumb. Positive contributor to the thread in general.

West

- Not sure what to think. Lots of dealings with bji, which are not very interesting. I think the picture will get clearer soon enough.


Now some inquiries:

@Dooku

: Is anybody other than Ari scum?

@Johnny

: Talk about West some.

@West

: Talk about Johnny some.

@Ari

: Why is Johnny good?

@pisskop

: You probably have questions for me seeing I'm in your favorite slot.
. Also is this just how cool people indent?

UNVOTE:

[Gliffie]

Gliffie, did Aero told you his alignment from the very start of this game?

Yeah, it's all a big conspiracy.

Why don't you just come out and say what you think instead of hinting like this?

I'm not voting because I want Ari to respond first. Nice theory though

Welcome Gliffie!!

How did Aero flip?

I couldn't really read Aero well due to catch up type posts and 1v1's with pisskop. Perhaps you could shed some light on this for us? Don't quote your role PM.

Hold up, lemme check my PM again to make sure I got this right...

Bomb: Pisskop

...err wait, I think that's wrong. I'll tell you this much: Aero was town. Pretty pleased I finally landed myself in a town slot. (I hope that wasn't

too

pretentious)

@Giffie
. Not really much I can ask you atm. Aero's posting caused my read; his attituide and approach.
Am I crazy? Do you agree with his opinion/pushes?
.There's not much I can hold you accountable for answering, save perhaps why you think your predecessor was blatently ignoring every point that didn't have a pro-town answer.

You're not crazy, despite your peculiar indenting method. To be honest I was kinda glazing over your back and forths. If you provide the points in question I'll gladly conjecture if that really is interesting. If it's just what's in 344 I don't have much to add, though I feel like questioning how a "pressure vote" works when you say they're not scum. Did you do that because bji is a newcomer who would feel pressured regardless of your reasoning? On the other hand, I have no idea what Aero was on about with the "yelling"

[Gliffie]

You're wrong. Cheetory asked me if I wanted to replace Nick, I declined, he later asked me to replace Aero, I accepted, got a role PM.

P-edit: Yup

[Gliffie]

Dooku - Fine except for his Nickname vote reasoning. That's dumb

Why?
Did you read post 397?
If so, and you indeed think that my vote is bad, tell me why do you think it, please.

I did read it. I'm just very skeptical about interpreting the timing of his replacement to mean anything. You're other reasons are fine, heck, they're the same as mine. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Yes, maybe he had RL shit, maybe he couldn't keep up with the game etc. But. Why did he sign up? Why didn't he read some other games to see whether people swear? If he knew that he will be having a lot of RL things to do, why did he sign up? Why did he request replacement only after people started to scumread him?

Pure conjecture...

[Gliffie]

Scum

Aristophanes

TMJ

TMJ? Just gut I presume?

[Gliffie]

Scum

Aristophanes

TMJ

TMJ? Just gut I presume?

Nah

By all means, don't elaborate then

[Gliffie]

Quick post before bedtime.

SilverWolf - Seems fine.

Can you elaborate?

I'm saying I didn't find anything to poke at from my original readthrough nor my quick ISO. For example, I don't think her Lapsa vote was scummy. You say this is SilverWolf lite, so is there any particular game where you feel like SilverWolf pro was playing? I'd like to compare them a bit. Lapsa can also help out with this.

@Gliffie

Johnny seems to be doing his regular poking. I like his poking. I see nothing wrong with him this far.
He's a null-town lean. I'm not super town reading him for anything, but I don't see anything wrong with his posts, which makes me like him.

Johnny is more than capable enough to not do anything "wrong" this early, especially when he's not doing much. It seems even Johnny agrees he's not the most town player at the moment (475). Not very pleased with this answer.

Ari is now bothering me. I agree with SW that he seems too appeasy, but then again I have no recollection of how town-Ari plays (Johnny, West, chime in please)

I have been townreading [SW] the whole time.
If you wanna fight, I can, just see no need

Hmm, why not argue with town reads?

VOTE: Aristophanes <-- guess why

[Gliffie]

Perfectly timed prod dodge while I'm writing a post.

[Gliffie]

I have been townreading [SW] the whole time.
If you wanna fight, I can, just see no need

Hmm, why not argue with town reads?

VOTE: Aristophanes <-- guess why

Gliff
I would like you to actually aay why you're voting me.
Is it because I seem "appeasy"?
Is it because I didn't argue with SW?
If the latter, that is because they have good points, which, along with a town lean, lead to myaelf having no reason to question them right now.

Yes, but why does that warrant a vote? Why is it scummy? The quote that sprang into my mind was "keep your scum-friends close and your town-enemies closer". Town when confronted by fellow town should defend themselves, as they are in fact innocent and are no good dead. Scum doesn't want to die either, but they are, when all is said and done, "wrong" and therefore shy away from possibly losing arguments. That's why scum would prefer backing down from arguments with players not marked for destruction (aka their town-"reads"). I feel that's what you've been getting at, which is why you're scum.

Also you're in Nick's slot, which is pretty damning. And

@Johnny

and

West

, could you please help me out with Ari meta (appeasy and whatnot)?

Johnny is more than capable enough to not do anything "wrong" this early, especially when he's not doing much. It seems even Johnny agrees he's not the most town player at the moment (475). Not very pleased with this answer.

@Gliffie, how much have you played together, could you describe Johnny a bit more?

We've played together on and off since 2010. I would describe Johnny as an aggressive player who likes to get the ball rolling. Not the type to make walls. Lately I believe he's become more snarky in his playstyle (rip TPS, home of the snark). He also has a tendency to get mislynched, or that's an in-joke at least. I hope that wasn't too horribly outdated, Johnny

I feel like he's been playing pretty cheaply so far. I don't think his current project is very interesting either, as Pea Brain has almost made me check if jesters are allowed in normal games. Almost.

My vote is worse than a Prolapsed Brain vote. I'd be willing to vote Prolapsed Brain but only because with a clear scum choice, I'd be as happy to see PB go as anyone.

I would also be willing to vote for evilpacman18, VictorDeAngelo, and Gliffie.

I'm trying to pick middle of the road players who do not seem to scummy nor non-scummy. I expect that this is how the scum are hiding.

I'm gonna go into some more mechanics discussion here. Being "willing to vote" shouldn't really be a thing. A vote in an individual decision, while a lynch is something the whole group decides. If you're gonna vote, do it. It's free and the best tool town has. You can discuss who you think is scum and who you are willing to lynch, but listing who you're considering voting just looks like you're browsing for a wagon.

I don't have a particularly good defense against this other than being new and bad at this game. I have tried to be as skeptical as I could be about everyone from very early on which led to exaggerating my arguments just to see where they would go. That's why I found something scummy in almost everyone. Anyone could be scum, so why wouldn't I be looking for something scummy in everyone anyway?

Post 408 was my attempt at making something stick on evilpacman18. Maybe it was all weak arguments (West9 especially doesn't like that I tried to make evilpacman18's statement about wanting to see Nickname lynched on Day 1 into a contradiction with his discomfort with the "vote happy" nature that he ascribed to town in the post that 408 responds to), but it was an attempt at trying to see if I could catch a scum. Weak sauce, maybe, but that seems to be the only sauce at my disposal.

You know you're admitting to what is essentially prima scum play, right? Here's my challenge to you: try making a genuine case you actually believe in. Scum is out there, ripe for the taking. You're also welcome to fail horribly at this so I can finally decide whether you're actually trying to catch scum or not.

@

SW

: Was it really necessary to bring up all those P Brain quotes? I think everyone can see his play has been a total joke so far. Too many word for an ultimately unsatisfying conclusion. You say either/or is scum, but who would you bet on?

@

Ari

: Tell me what you think about my reasoning.

(Man I use way too much time to make a post)

[Gliffie]

Changed my avatar, but I assure you that's it's for %100 scum reasons.

[Gliffie]

Changed my avatar, but I assure you that's it's for %100 scum reasons.

Ah, horrible typo here. 100%*, of course.

[Gliffie]

I have failed horribly, several times already, it's in the thread history. I pushed on pisskop, and on evilpacman18, and perhaps most ludicrously of all, on West9.

What I found in my previous games is that scum try to be active, but not too active; to be argumentative, but not too argumentative; to be thoughtful but not too thoughtful; basically the tendency is to try not to stray too far towards any extreme. I'm trying to identify those people in this game and focus on them. I haven't done a great job of that.

In my first game, I was a complete newbie scum who didn't read any strategy guides and hardly knew how the game worked (I didn't even know what the power roles were/did until early Day 2 when I bothered to read them). And yet, my scum partner and myself completely fooled a bevy of more experienced players and won. I just don't feel confident that as a newbie townie against more experienced scum, I'll have any hope of detecting them. I tried to come out guns blazing but I feel like I just got nowhere.

Wah wah, I know. Just being real.

Fuck it. There is a correct answer out there. Go hunt scum. Make one last attempt and make it count. I'm really interested in what you'll find. As for D1 hopelessness: the success rate may not be the best, but the interactions are worth their weight in gold. Besides, doesn't the random success rate just tell us that the game is balanced? I dunno, I'm talking out my ass here and I haven't read the thread you're talking about. (link?)

[Gliffie]

While providing Disney-Tiered levels of inspiration, there is no content being generated out of a slot in which a fairly competent player displayed such clear scumtells. Why am I the only one here?

Maybe because you're case is completely static by now and you have applied pretty much no pressure to me. Question me about stuff. You get to develop your case and I get to be more useful. Draft-edit (D-EDIT?): or just vote VDA I guess.

As for the fluffy, inspirational sidetrack, I'm just trying to get some coherent content out of bji. It is, as West said, not very interesting, though I feel the way he responded was genuine. I'll reserve further judgement for when he makes that case of his.

*

Man, I hoped Ari (and Johnny too for that matter) would have responded by now. I fear I'm becoming a bit single-minded in this game, so I'll work on expanding my scope. Like I said in my first post, VDA could be interesting if he starts posting again. I also feel I should ISO pisskop to see how solid my gut read really is.


P-EDIT:

Ask and you shall receive! Ari's P Brain vote is zzzzz and doesn't look very good coming from the leading wagon. It feels like the "easy way out" of getting lynched, rather than one that will help town more. It seems you realize this yourself, yet you say lynching him would be an alright end to D1. If you are town and get mislynched, is "lynch P Brain" the message you want to pass onto us?

As for your response to me: arguing doesn't have to be drama. The playstyle you're describing (and using) is unnecessarily passive. Isn't there a point in making me stop thinking you're scum? For me all evidence is pointing in the same direction and I'd honestly be very happy with having your head on a spike by the end of the day. Is that okay?

[Gliffie]

Someone please tell me I'm wrong because I'm feeling way too good about this case at the moment.

[Gliffie]

Are you all right SW?

[Gliffie]

SW's sudden meltdown after a few votes was really, really weird. I absolutely did not expect that and I thought she was reaction fishing or something. Like VDA said, while bji was being obnoxious, I really don't think he crossed a line anywhere. Seeing SW replaced out I guess she really was

that

frustrated, and Dooku's testimony further convinces me. Shame. Besides, feigning outrage to that degree as scum would be close to what I deem unethical play.

Ari's 667 is hyperbolic and it's weird that he can feel so strongly about bji-SW yet admit in the next post that he "got nothing alignment related" from it. Anyways Ari, you're at L-1 now with few days to spare. Talk to us. You said P Brain lynch is not your final message? Show us what you have in mind.

Funny thing, pisskop's PR hints completely flew over my head although I distinctly remember reading them. I guess I'm just

that

dense. Titus' 684 is a very good point and calms the doubts I had in my mind about town-pisskop.

@Cheetory6

: Is bji confirmed replacing out?

@Johnny

: Stop being lame.

[Gliffie]

Perhaps that's for the best. I still haven't gotten a proper read on him anyways. Such a blunder factory, man. If he replaces out then there's exactly only one slot that hasn't gotten prods or replaced. Good shit Lapsa.

[Gliffie]

What the fuck is going on. Correct me if I'm wrong: Titus is a known sharp player, completely and utterlty missunderstands pisskop, this is apparently scum slip of the century, suddenly L-1? This seems so dumb on both ends. Titus, you are paying attention to the game right? Your posts feel so unfocused. I really don't like this wagon either. It's so incredibly rushed. Why are VDA, P Brain and Lapsa on it? Is just just #YOLOSWAGWAGON or did I miss your actual reasons? Ari's jump onto the wagon feels really opportunitsic too. Oh, and bji is back. Man...

For the record, I've been neighborized by scum and I've been a scum neighborizer. Scum neighborizer isn't that outlandish. Would confirming the role make Ari more or less confirmed town for you, pisskop? I don't think it will. Ari lynch is still the best option, so my vote stays.

this is my intent to hammer Titus

Good luck with that. Do you have two votes?

[Gliffie]

Not this site, but Cheetory was in it: http://www.d2forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=11866 http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/vXXP2L36YPX. This is the game where I was scum neighborizer. I don't think Cheetory knows about the other one.

Ari lynch will not tell you anything? Are you for real? Scum-Ari would say nothing about Dooku, P Brain, SW/Titus (or me for that matter)?

[Gliffie]

With "confirming the role" I'm talking about testing whether Ari is a neighborizer or not, not flipping the slot.

[Gliffie]

I was incorrect about the game where I was neighborized by scum by the way. I was neighborized together with scum by a regular town neighborizer.

[Gliffie]

Good luck with that. Do you have two votes?

got yours

You're starting to get useless again.

[Gliffie]

Sooo much anime. Too many pictures.

I disabled images and signatures on that forum a long time ago, just like I've changed the board style here.

Okay. So you were. It strikes me as highly unlikely on this site, however.

I read prolasped naked vote a survivalism.

I don't think it's that unlikely. Cheetory does not originate from this site and this is the first game he's hosting here. Do you think the list mod would not have approved it?

Survivalism?

You're starting to get useless again.

sorry, Gliffie aka town slip of the century, but you are wrong - it is just a big conspiracy

pisskop was right on #728

We should lynch Titus or Gliffie.

do it

lynch Titus!

Amazing

[Gliffie]

I will suppose the latter is for G there as I have never been a neighborizer.

I will chill for a day or two to calm down and refocus.

You do realize D1 ends in exactly "a day or two", right?

[Gliffie]

Hi Gliffie. Yeah, I'm back. Sorry to disappoint you!

Can you reiterate your case on Ari? I read your ISO to try to understand it. I honestly fail to see why it's more compelling than the evidence against SW/Titus. It seems to boil pretty much entirely down to believing that Ari backed off of arguments too quickly and was too "appeasy" as appears to be the popular word for it. Do you have anything else?

Don't worry, I'm not disapointed. This game doesn't need more replacements. I've read Ari's slot as scum since Nick's first posts. Furthermore you have the passive play that you mentioned and some bad votes (P Brain and now Tidus). Just ctrl-F "Ari" in my ISO for every detail.

Like I said before, I never really had issues with SW/Tidus slot until SW went off the wall and Tidus replaced in. Now the slot is more up in the air, but I

really

don't like the wagon that formed now.

Here's what Gliffie said about SW's exit in post 704:

"Besides, feigning outrage to that degree as scum would be close to what I deem unethical play."

Is that common consensus? I kind of missed that on first read of post 704 but I have to admit it is very interesting. Is it accepted that replacing out as a ploy to disguise scumminess is unethical? I believe that if it's unethical, SilverWolf wouldn't do it. She didn't seem like that kind of person.

I was referring to scum getting pissed for being accused of being scummy, which I really dislike. This is about having fun, and bringing unecesarry amounts of bile into the thread is not fun at all. Absusing the replacement system to get your slot out of the hot seat is also uncool, but that's also kinda pointless because you can't "win" a game after replacing out, at least in my mind.

Whoops... come vote Brain with me. Make him give reads or die.

I'd rather have you vote Ari, but that's not gonna happen, is it? I doubt you will get anything out of Pea Brain anyways. Someone should just shoot that guy before we waste a lynch on him. I'm all for him giving reads though, if he can accomplish such a feat.

Pisskop

, can you answer my 850 and858?

Also, I actually can't believe

Johnny

hasn't shared his opinion on Ari yet. Are you scum Johnny?

P-Edit: 789, West?

[Gliffie]

yeah. It makes more sense to say that its compelling evidence towards pisskops other points about titus.

Are you talking about the three quotes/order of events or the fact that pisskop has played with Tidus before? None of that was new.

[Gliffie]

Titus' response/ her being incorrect is compelling, however.

Yeah, she was defintiely in the wrong. The part I don't get is why she hasn't admited it/excused herself. I'd understand that when you play 8 million games at once like people do here, you miss stuff, but does she not believe she's incorrect or something?

Also I've been calling her Tidus lol

[Gliffie]

Critical errors indeed, but I don't see why scum would have made that error as opposed to town.

[Gliffie]

And again

Pisskop

, can you answer my 850 and 858?

[Gliffie]

AFA Ari neighborizers scum. That would only really work if Ari felt capable of sorting them.

I'm having real trouble parsing what you're trying to say here.

Survivalism?

As in, he's next on the chopping block for most of the town. Many players will do whatever keeps them alive, either alignment.

So you think his Titus vote is a null tell? What do you read P Brain as anyways?

[Gliffie]

Man, I still want to see Ari hang. And for the record, I'd like to see

Johnny

tried tomorrow. What are you saying in (999)? That Titus is wrong or that you don't want to vote Pea Brain?

T minus 14 hours and the choice seems to be between Titus and P Brain... bleh. I don't know whether I want to see Titus flip more than I want to see PB killed. Bar some serious distancing work, I doubt both are scum. Therefore it makes sense to kill the one that I believe has the biggest chance of flipping scum. Then again, lynching P Brain and flipping town would be awful for D2, while town-Titus might actually get us somewhere. Actually,

@pisskop

what exactly do you feel town-Titus would tell us? Who would move up and who would move down on the read list? While I of course realize that knowing the allignment of a player that has actually tried to play is much more valuble than knowing a wannabe-jester's alignment, I'm not that sure about the direct implications. I guess I would seem more town? lol

VOTE: Prolapsed Brain because I think there's a bigger chance he'll flip scum. I'll hammer Titus before the deadline to avoid a no lynch though. Gj to scum for making me chose between two players who aren't my top scumread. (Someone please vote Ari with me).

L-2 for both now unless I'm bad at counting.

[Gliffie]

Do so quickly, then. Fuck the midterm.

Titus, list reads from scum to town, please. Same for P Brain (doubtful, but please prove me wrong here).

[Gliffie]

Why hasn't Ari stated who he is going to neighborize? A lynch could happen at any time now and he hasn't declared his target.

I don't think Ari feels like he's gotten a clear enough message of what to do. I'm actually not that sure what's the best course of action. If he's scum and wants to link a team mate to his fate by pretending to neighborize him, then I'd honestly say go ahead. Deciding who he's gonna neighborize in public and that player getting whacked would also be problematic, so perhaps we should just let him neighborize whoever he wants. Titus, you apparently pride yourself on being a setup cracker. What do you think?

P-edit:

Sorry did Sri already name his target? Must have missed it. I'm on my phone and can hardly navigate this site at the moment.

Did Ari agree to that?

[Gliffie]

Scum

PB and Tjoe
Pisskop by play

Piskop by claim
Gliffee
Johnny farrar/Pacman/West9/Count Dooku
Lapsa/VDA/bji

Why is VDA top town?

[Gliffie]

(Someone please vote Ari with me).

Okay!

VOTE: Aristotle

Wrong philospher and sadly doesn't seem serious enough for me to jump back on Ari. Why do you want to get lynched anyways?

[Gliffie]

@G VDA is top town due to the consistency in his posts and

highlighted something I had not seen.

Which was...? 712?

[Gliffie]

Here's a prod dodge for me too. I'm gonna be busy for a few days finishing a project, but I'll be rethinking this game a bit. I honestly did not think the chances of SW/Titus flipping scum were that high. I'm not sure what all of this says about Ari, but my suspicion has died down a bit from what interactions he had with the flipped scum. They didn't really look like scumbuddies to me. I'll look more into that. TJM and EPM wagons intrigue me, especially TJM, but Titus attempted wagon on him makes me wary.

I'm not sure why people seem to think Lapsa killed Dooku. However, if there is a 3rd party it should become apparent soon enough. Might be a bit much for a mini though.

[Gliffie]

Final prodge. Post coming later tonight.

[Gliffie]

I'm sorry guys, this is not working out. I'm gonna be V/LA for some time and after that I'm gonna be just as busy as I've been these last few days. I'm also getting a bit sick at the moment, so that made my choice easier.

Mod: I'll be replacing out

. Sorry for the trouble.

[Gliffie]

I'm still surprised my slot wasn't lynched on D2. My ISO was absolutely atrocious, looked like the perfect SW scumbuddy. What ruined this game for me was that I was using way too much time to make posts and thus always ended up losing sleep in favor of mafia, which is not worth it. I kinda had a scum mindset while playing this round, which was a weird experience. Spent a lot of time to appear waterproof, which is not necessary. I'll have to rework my playstyle to be much more impulsive if I want to play another round here. Sorry again for replacing out. Might have cost town the game there...

Pretty fucking funny/sad that Pea Brain's slot won the game. Policy lynching him the next time he plays like that. So stupid...

Titus, was the confusion with Pisskop's role legitimate? Because that was really silly.

[Gliffie]

I didn't agree with vigging Dooku btw, which is why I brought up a 3rd party.

[Gliffie]

@Gliffe, what do you mean?

You thought Pisskop claimed cop or whatnot, which he very obviously did not.

[Gliffie]

I think we all say we would have killed PB now, but we are all equally guilty of letting that shit slide all game.

Townbeard?

[Gliffie]

I think we all say we would have killed PB now, but we are all equally guilty of letting that shit slide all game.

I voted him more than once baby girl

How did that work out for ya?