Mini 1698: MDCXCVIII [C'est fini!]

[FA_Q2]

This idea that we need multiple suspects is awfully strange.

Hi, have you played mafia before?

Yes. Something the timing seems strange, especially since he is still voting for Implosion.

You seem to be unable to realise someone can have more than one scumread. In this setup, there is likely three mafia. I don't see why I can't suspect more than one person.

Unvote

VOTE: GrayFoxxxx
I wanted to do this earlier but there was no one else voting him so it wasn't really worth it. Thank you, KK.

Yeah I
Dont like this. Town doesn't need cover for a vote.

VOTE: implosion

I don't paticularly like this vote from Dragonspawn. It seems rather oppurtunistic with a wagon on Implosion starting.

What makes you think dragonspawn's vote was opportunistic? He gave a fine reason for it, I think. Further, why are you voting Implosion when the first suspicion you have is towards dragonspawn?

Is that RVS?
If not, then since when have we only had one suspect on D1?
We do not have to lynch every suspect.

I think we're better off focusing on one at a time. It creates more pressure and keeps the town from becoming splintered. However, I am not necessarily opposed to having multiple suspects at a time. What you specifically suggested seemed suspicious to me so I am investigating you.

If everyone agrees on one person, that's a bad sign, as that means mafia are content with the lynch.
We are better off with everyone grilling their scumread, like you are doing with me right now.[/quote]
And yet your vote remains on the target of the one that you are scum reading...

You are doing a bit of damage control and essentially nothing else.

[FA_Q2]

I have played with Mario in marathon before. It may be a different deal than here, but I also read some of his newbie games.

And?

That statement is missing its conclusion.

[FA_Q2]

I have played with Mario in marathon before. It may be a different deal than here, but I also read some of his newbie games.

And?

That statement is missing its conclusion.

It does speak for itself, tbh. =/ Feels like you were just looking to play Devil's Advocate here.

No, it does not. Conclusion was really the wrong term to use. I wanted to know what, in particular, bulb seen that makes him suspect mario. That is important and he gave me the answer I was looking for in 185.

[FA_Q2]

If everyone agrees on one person, that's a bad sign, as that means mafia are content with the lynch.
We are better off with everyone grilling their scumread, like you are doing with me right now.

So you're admitting that town gains information if we all agree on one person. But you also don't want us to do it.

No, because in pure statements, mafia can bus.
I meant if the player was actually being lynched and everyone online was jumping aboard, because that would indicate scum were content with the lynch.
It is always best to have more than one suspect and it's the way it's always done.

Everyone can go check that in post 79 the context of what you were dealing with was not in fact an actual lynch of a player. The person you were quoting in post 79 was talking about SUSPECTS, who you yourself said we did not have to lynch. They made the point that it's better to have one suspect for increased pressure on that person, and then you said that we shouldn't agree on one person because mafia would be content with the lynch. Now you are waffling and saying that mafia can bus, so mafia being content with a particular suspect DOESN'T mean that suspect is town. In addition you are diverting attention away from your mistake by claiming that the context was about actually carrying through with a lynch, which it was not.

This is scummy not because you have a certain opinion about what everyone should and shouldn't do, but because when that opinion was challenged for being anti-town, you both waffled and deflected. You are far too defensive to be town imo. VOTE: MarioManiac4

This is, at this point, the best reasoning out there.

I also don't like diverting the scum hunting conversation almost in its totality to a conversation about the ideal number of wagons town should have - a point in strategy that is nonsensical at best without the context of a specific situation.
VOTE: mario

[FA_Q2]

vote: FA

FA, come say things.

I will post once per day as I work 12+ hours per day at 6 days per week. There are also internet connection problems out here every now and then that force me to skip a day. If that is not sufficient then you had best lynch me now because it is not going to change.

[FA_Q2]

@Grayfoxxx - it's day fucking 1, why are you trying so hard to derail the Mario votes? For the most part, it's just pressure, no one is actually going to lynch him yet. You are completely going against a town win con by trying to stop a wagon pointlessly. IT'S FUCKING PAGE 9! Let a wagon form and see how he reacts to the pressure and how others react to him.

This is a bit of an overreaction, no?

Boon, you're the one who needs to chill out (passionate or not)... people are allowed to defend other people early in the game. "Pressure is good" is not some universal formula to winning as town; this is doubly true if, as you seem to be saying, Mario is the kind of player who is never going to give us any kind of useful reaction.

Gray is saying that he's using the information from the wagon to start scumhunting, while you're essentially demanding that we continue wagoning to obtain more information. Those are just two different playstyles or two different ways of looking at things. I actually personally see Gray as townier and townier in these pages.

His vote on me was very odd.

I can see you seeing it as odd. But odd does not equate to scummy. But w/e.

I like a bulb vote better than a mario vote. Nothing that mario posted gives me strong feelings except for that line that I mentioned gave me a gut town read. And it also just isn't going to be productive from a pressure standpoint if he's a chronic lurker.

Bulb has said relevant things towards mario, but he hasn't made any comments about literally anyone else in the game since RVS. He says he finds Mario the scummiest... but that's a very vague statement when he hasn't given a single read on anyone else.

Unvote

VOTE: bulb

I still want to visit NE, but people are ignoring my points on him (particularly the bottom of 193). He's still acting scummy. He's essentially ignoring everything in the game except for Mario because he says he's waiting on Mario to see whether or not he answers the question, or what else he does, while he asks random questions towards people in the mean time. Waiting for days to give a better read on one person while ignoring forming reads on other players is not town play, it's scum trying to stay under the radar and create an excuse for not creating content. Three of his most recent four posts (134, 167, the first half of 238) are all basically just saying exactly this with different wording. He's talking a lot about the development of his mario read, but not much else.

If anyone could give any additional opinions on NE, it'd be appreciated.

I don't like this one bit

To me this essentially reads that "oh you scum read me for my vote on you then Ill just sheep your vote then." It looks to me like an attempt to shift grays suspicions off of him - and it seems to have worked.
VOTE: implosion

[FA_Q2]

FA usually is readable; he's not a Day 1 lynch.

Really because I have been town in EVERY SINGLE GAME (other than my newbie game) on this site and have been lynched by town virtually every time.

I am wondering what the fuck I am doing wrong...

[FA_Q2]

Lemme get this straight you guys wanted to lynch Mario because of activity meta and not answering questions? If that is the case you should give me a blank slate

PEdit: if you want me to vote implosion I'd be happy to

No, actually.

There were clear reasons given by myself and shizam for the scum read. Those have not gone away IMHO. At this time there is better though (hence my vote's location).

[FA_Q2]

Im still ok with a bulb lynch, he's acting anti town to say the least, and I think his lynch would give alot of info.

Like?

I don't think bulb has had any real interaction with anyone to really give us any useful info other than with shizam. What else has bulb done that give us workable information?

[FA_Q2]

5th vote FaQ
He votes sheeping shazam, which makes me really confused because the post that he sheeps is so bad. It is so obvious that shazam is twisting mario's words. The vote doesn't stay on too long though cause 2 posts later he changes his vote[/spoiler]

I swear that no one here seems to even understand the term 'sheep.' I didn't sheep shizam - I voted for reasons that I had. They were somewhat similar to shizam's mut were more heviliy leaning on the fact that Mario was dragging the conversation away from anything useful - kind of like what you have been doing for the last several pages.

It was not 'obvious' that he was twisting those words either - that is your own point and a point that I think you are incorrect on.

[FA_Q2]

Im still ok with a bulb lynch, he's acting anti town to say the least, and I think his lynch would give alot of info.

Like?

I don't think bulb has had any real interaction with anyone to really give us any useful info other than with shizam. What else has bulb done that give us workable information?

That's an understatement. Check out his iso.

And? Is there something in particular that you are looking at because I see a LOT shizam is scum and not much else that cannot be posted by scum. I guess there is a little about Mario and the timing of those votes would give us some info IR bulb flipped scum - something I am not really convinced of atm.

[FA_Q2]

they haven't really made a case at all

you do realize that a player isn't actually obliged to make a case right?

And one is not required to really play either. One could simply post a few lines a day.

Making cases is the core of this games. Chose to not make any cases and you really are doing nothing more than randomly voting.

IOW, its asinine.

[FA_Q2]

Well, the last 10 pages of this thread were a waste of my life to read.

I do not like woody or boon at this point because f this exchange. I didn't like woody before either so he is near the top of my scum reads. Boon's meta is very off as he is usually VERY erratic and his reads day one are all over the place - a huge change from this game where they are solid and he is giving a lot more content than normal. I can see a scum boon.

Woodpecker has been arguing game theory and soft defending Mario the entire time without any real cases to be had anywhere. He attacks legitimate cases and misrepresents things that have been said (such as my vote on Mario that was a complete and total misrep in its entirety). I fond him the scummier of the two.

I don't think that he and boon can be scum together - that would be the worst scum team ever (particularly since the scum have day talk). A lynch here would also garner useful information (nailing a scum clears the other and gives insight on Mario)

VOTE: woodpecker

[FA_Q2]

I'm not really liking the push on fa. I understand boons reasoning for it but the other votes are just making me uneasy.

?

How do you understand boons read - it is essentially a huge OMGUS. I read boon as scum for essentially the exact same reasoning that he read Mario as scum - his game is 180 from every town game I have played with him. Something is very off with boon's play. He reminds me a lot of scum wolf right now tbh.

[FA_Q2]

I think I agree with boon's assessment of FA's most recent slew of posts. Something about the way he frames Woody/boon's interaction feels off. He just says that he doesn't like them because of the exchange without any further explanation, but it seems strange that the first thing that would come to mind after such a heated back-and-forth exchange would be that they both become scummier for having been involved. It just feels like an excuse to vote Woody and lead in to a Boon fos tomorrow. He talks about information from the lynch in the case that we get scum, but lynching scum is almost always going to give useful information.

I feel like taking this argument and framing it as "there's probably scum amongst the two of them" is a fairly likely scum tactic. And I don't see it as being a likely reaction to the argument as town. So. This is further strengthened to some degree by my still thinking both of them are town.

I also have a good initial impression of Annarchy's (Stubbs replacement) opening.

Unvote

VOTE: FA
Still have a (decently) strong scumread on the NE slot, contingent of course on spicer's posting. But my votes have been dead ends for pretty much this entire day, and I think I'm happy with this vote right now.

I don’t like the exchange because it completely shut out any scum hunting in its entirety and changed the focus of the game from finding scum to useless vitriolic nonsense. What is unclear about that?

Then I gave further reasons for my vote on pecker. And you are damn right if pecker flips town I will suspect boon, he is a scum read after all. I don’t see how that is anti-town.

It was also called opportunistic which is asinine – it was opportunistic insofar as it was a direct reaction to the way the players were behaving. I guess voting for a direct scum claim would be ‘opportunistic’ as well.

[FA_Q2]

Vitriol is a fine reason to dislike it in the sense of dislike as in thinking it's a bad thing. It isn't in the sense of dislike as in thinking it's a scummy thing, which looks like how you were using the word "dislike." You call them scummy for engaging in such vitriol, with absolutely no justification of why being so vitriolic is scummy. I'm not criticizing any other reasons you gave towards Woody, just that.

BECAUSE IT DERAILS THE ENTIRE TOPIC AND DOES NOT ALLOW SCUM HUNTING WHATSOEVER.

There, I bolded and put in caps the reason I found the exchange scummy as you seem to be ignoring the other times I have stated directly why the exchange was scummy. It is not vitriol that is the problem, it is when you take it to a level that essentially resets the game because it becomes about nothing but the exchange and then scum scoot off under the rug.

[FA_Q2]

Because you don't know for a fact that I'm scum if you are town?
Because I might not be lynched today?
Because it's common courtesy to answer questions?
Because my response might help you read me better, either solidifying your scumread on me or losing faith in it?
Because my response might help you convince others to vote for me?

Because it might help others read you?

Because being generally unwilling to discuss things is harmful to the town?
Because you don't want to be read as scum for avoiding my question?

Those are all the reasons that you need dragon...

[FA_Q2]

Okay. I'm all caught up.

Town: WoodyWoodpecker, Boonskiies, GrayFoxxxx, Shazam
Weaktown: TheDominator37, implosion
Weakscum: Annarchy, Bulbazoor, spice1209
Scum: FA_Q2, pisskop, dragonspawn

The WoodyWoodpecker/Boonskiies slapfight is a town on town squabble. GrayFoxxxx towntold pretty hard in the first half of the game. Shazam gave a strong town-tell as well.

I was never big on the MarioManiac4 wagon (I understand the reasons, but they aren't as strong as they are made out to be). TheDominator37 has been fairly townish, though a little milquetoast.

implosion is in the weak town because of a weird vibe that keeps him from being a full town read. Mostly it's the repeated motif where he has to constantly point out "scum-Khan could do that" which is weird that I'm the only one that gets this treatment. I had to look up if we had any game history and we've only ever been in one game together and I was town. If he could give me the reasoning behind this specific treatment I'd appreciate it, otherwise it feels a little like a "smear/discredit the townie" tactic.

The Annarchy weakscum read comes mostly from Necessary Evil. Necessary Evil's posts were lackluster and his read reasonings were vague. Though it could just be unfocused town. Annarchy has a totally different style, which is great, but I don't agree with many of her conclusions, which is bad.

Bulbazoor is a wildcard at the moment. His weird cadence/formatting, the backtrack, the (possible?) responding to old posts.. I can't even tell if english is his first language.

spicer1209 is in the hole that StubbsKVM dug at the moment. StubbsKVM was a weak scumread. And spice1209 is a non-read. So, it's meh/scum.

pisskop could be scum? I dunno? Maybe? He doesn't seem to care to find scum or lynch them. He's the emo kid of this game. He just wants to be left alone.

FA_Q2's Post 724 is the scummiest post I've ever read. It's one thing to hate a 10 page squabble. But finding both participants individually scummy (where if one turns up town, the other must be scum) is ridiculous.

dragonspawn feels like textbook scum coasting. He's not leading any wagons. He's not pushing or making waves. Here's a quick experiment. Without looking at the votecount, someone tell me who dragonspawn is voting for and why.

Spoiler: answer

It's implosion. And best I can figure it's because he's not "impressed" by him.

VOTE: dragonspawn

This is pretty scummy IMHO.

You set out a fairly clear scum team of me, dragon and pis highlighted by claiming my post is the scummiest post you have ever seen but then, instead of voting for the player that is most likely to get lynched on your scum team (me) who has the scummiest post *you ever read* you instead vote for dragon. A player that has virtually zero chance to be lynched this day as you are the sole vote there.

That is because you know I am town and don't want to be on the wagon at the end of the day when it flips. Town is doing a fine job of trying to lynch me all on its own (and it looks as though the votes are there already as a few players have suggested they will support my lynch). If you were town then you would naturally vote for the person in your scum pile that is most likely to be lynched. Instead you are voting the 'safe' bet with a player that will not flip and you can be off the town lynch.

My woody vote is meaningless at this time - you are a much better vote as I think this is a clearly scum motivated post of yours.

VOTE: Kublai Khan

[FA_Q2]

That is because you know I am town and don't want to be on the wagon at the end of the day when it flips. Town is doing a fine job of trying to lynch me all on its own (and it looks as though the votes are there already as a few players have suggested they will support my lynch). If you were town then you would naturally vote for the person in your scum pile that is most likely to be lynched. Instead you are voting the 'safe' bet with a player that will not flip and you can be off the town lynch.

This whole paragraph is WIFOM to justify a "scumkhan" conclusion.

As scum, I would avoid a wagon on a town with 4 days left to go. For the "town-cred" of voting someone unflipped. Is that your theory?

Yes, it is.

You are waiting for town to lynch me themselves. You are the one that claimed I posted the scummiest post you have ever read but the lurking case is the one you voted for....

[FA_Q2]

That is because you know I am town and don't want to be on the wagon at the end of the day when it flips. Town is doing a fine job of trying to lynch me all on its own (and it looks as though the votes are there already as a few players have suggested they will support my lynch). If you were town then you would naturally vote for the person in your scum pile that is most likely to be lynched. Instead you are voting the 'safe' bet with a player that will not flip and you can be off the town lynch.

This whole paragraph is WIFOM to justify a "scumkhan" conclusion.

As scum, I would avoid a wagon on a town with 4 days left to go. For the "town-cred" of voting someone unflipped. Is that your theory?

Yes, it is.

You are waiting for town to lynch me themselves. You are the one that claimed I posted the scummiest post you have ever read but the lurking case is the one you voted for....

Yes. I just spent several hours re-reading this game and trying to notice longer-term trends that get lost in the day-to-day postings. Such as dragonspawn's active lurking.

You were fairly null/scummish until that super-scummy post. Are you really voting me because you took second place in the scum-lympics?

But hey, I don't care. No matter what I do you'll call it scummy because you're invested and scrambling for a counter-wagon. I am glad that I proved your duel scumreads on WoodyWoodpecker and Boonskiies was bullshit, though.

I don't need to 'scramble' for a counter wagon - bulb is right there.

I am just not as sure of him as scum at this time. He has posted almost nothing and, in general, his posing reminds me more of someone that has is not even interested in reading the game.