Mini 1755: Game Over

[Ircher]

VOTE: AlwaysInnocent
He was scum in my last game.

[Ircher]

Well, I have only played one game here so far. The details are in my sig.

Personally, I think Axle has been the most scummy so far, as stated by other players.

[Ircher]

Personally, I think Axle has been the most scummy so far, as stated by other players.

Please show me where "other players" have "stated" that AxleGreaser has been the "most scummy" player so far.

Please tell me why

you

think AxleGreaser has been the "most scummy" player so far.

Also Hi,
people I know.
I wont list who you are as I am pretty sure some of the people I think I 'know' I have only stalked. (as per in the spoiler)

Speaking of Stalking...

Keyser whats your

general

opinion of fake claiming?

Strange that Axle asked Keyser about fake claim, during RVS. Never seen this happen before.

@lilac well well well. If it isn't the upside-down treble clef mixed in with the bass clef icon. Quite creative and very charming.

I have meta with 3 of the players. Let me know if anyone wants to know.

Spoiler: off topic

initiating playstyle imitations of Antihero, GuiltyLion, RadiantCowbells

VOTE: Axle for asking about fake claim when he is a very experienced player

the 3 who didn't pick up their roles...get with the program!
when you guys get with it
we'll offer hugs and frosted flakes
because it's still chilly outside

To your first question -- ^

As to your second, the same as above.

I really think it is rather suspicious you start jumping on me when I made a simple statement this early in the game. Did I say something wrong?

[Ircher]

And please don't post videos like that. It eats up data; at least put them in spoiler tags.

[Ircher]

Ircher, If you think Axle's the scummiest player in the game, why do you still have your vote on Innocent?

Well, I don't want to be constantly changing my vote, there isn't enough evidence to show he's scum (he's the scummiest at the time I made that post), and we're still in RVS for the most part.

@Keyser - Never did I say everyone else thought Axle was the scummiest; it is just the reasoning they presented that made me decide he was scummiest imo.
Your questioning over a simple statement od opinion seems overly defensive (especially in RVS) and suggests the two of you are scum buddies. With that being said, you have replayed Axle at the top of my scum list.

UNVOTE: AI
VOTE: Keyser

[Ircher]

Ok, I see where you're getting at Keyser. I wrote that poorly; I ment for the reasons others stated. Sorry for the confusion, but I still think you are being overly defensive.

[Ircher]

Umm... I already quoted it when answering above; mainly because he asked about fakeclaiming when he's rather experienced.

Oh, and I just want to point out that scummiest is a relative term, so when I use it, I might not neccessarily think they are scum; what I truly saying is that their play looks the scummiest. Do you understand what I'm saying?

[Ircher]

Tell me why only scum-AxleGreaser could have asked for my opinion on fake claiming, why not town-AxleGreaser?

Why are you calling me and AxleGreaser scum-partners? We're on page two and you're already pushing pre-flip association tells.

Again, I am not being defensive. I want you to explain the two statements you made. If you can't support them, just say so.

Did you mean AxleGreaser's question aroused the 'most curiosity'?

[Ircher]

1. Tell me why only scum-AxleGreaser could have asked for my opinion on fake claiming, why not town-AxleGreaser?

2. Why are you calling me and AxleGreaser scum-partners? We're on page two and you're already pushing pre-flip association tells.

3. Again, I am not being defensive. I want you to explain the two statements you made. If you can't support them, just say so.

4. Did you mean AxleGreaser's question aroused the 'most curiosity'?

1. To be truthful, I never really said Axle was scum. I guess I kinda implied it, but later I stated that when I say "scummiest", it is a relative term; it doesn't necessarily mean I think you're scum. Anyway, I can see town Axle doing it, but out of everyone at that point, Axle seemed to be the most suspicious.

2. Because you do seem to be defending Axle a lot. I will say it is too early to be making judgment calls, but I got to start somewhere. Don't worry, you're not in jeopardy of being lynched (yet).

3. That's just the way I saw it. Anyway, this post should clear up any remaining confusion on the matter.

4. I guess that is a reasonable way to put it. Yes, that probably is what I meant.

Whoops, didn't pay attn when submiting....

[Ircher]

@Axle

I have pretty much stated my reason, but perhaps I will give you my perspective in a different way.

When I made that first post about you being the most scummiest, I really meant "most suspicious". I wrote the post poorly though, so Keyser interpreted it as me saying other people stated you were the scummiest. Upon looking back over the post, I realized I meant to say "for the reason(s) others have stated."

Secondly, my only reason was simply your question. Though, to put it another way, at the time, your question made me suspicious of you and you were the only person who did anything that was suspicious to me.

Therefore, since no one else was suspicious to me, you were my top suspect.

I did not vote you for a few reasons: 1) We're still in RVS 2) Voting shows that you strongly believe someone is scum. I didn't strongly believe you were scum; I simply felt more suspicious of you versus everyone else. 3) It isn't a good thing to constantly be changing our votes. Since I had miniscule evidence suggesting you were scum, it wan't worth the effort.

Now, I voted Keyser for a few reasons: 1) He did seem to be rreally defending you. I found it a bit suspicious. 2) Combined with my suspicion of you, it did make you two seem like scum partners.

Finally, I have yet to unvote Keyser because I don't have a lot of reads. When I get more reads and find someone who is more deserving of a vote, I will probably change votes.

So far, my reads are as follows:

Lean Scum (Very Weak) - Keyser, Axle -- I've explained myself
Lean Town (Weak) - AI -- His joking attitude is actually town-indicative. I don't thing too many scums are as carefree as he is acting right now.

[Ircher]

In post 42, Ircher wrote:
Oh, and I just want to point out that scummiest is a relative term, so when I use it, I might not neccessarily think they are scum; what I truly saying is that their play looks the scummiest. Do you understand what I'm saying?

So ... when you say someone is the scummiest, you might actually think they're town? Just the worst town?

Not neccessarily. Early game, yes, that's a possib)e way to interpret it. (as it was in this case)

I would jump on Pisskop's wagon for his very pooor conduct except he's at L-2 right now... Still, maybe we should policy lynch him?

[Ircher]

You really should read my game in the sig.

Let's see.... Pisskop is not helping town at alll, is complaining a lot for no reason, self voted, and is overall making the game less fun or everyone else.

I think he would deserve a Policy Lynch, but as I stated, I'm not jumping on the wagon because there is a good chance I'm wrong and pisskop is just being stubborn.

[Ircher]

Ok, so here's my comments:

1. I think there's a misunderstanding between Heat and me. The reason why I sugget PL Pisskop was because he was unpleasant and self-voted. As explained in my first game here, self-voting is objectively bad and good evidence of scum. I did not vote because I am wary of mislynches. Which, in Newbie 1666, you will be able to see I tend to err on the cautious side of things. Not to mention that we had three mislynches in a row that game (Zombie, who self-voted, Jake, who was being stubborn and uncooperative, and myself, because we were in lylo and there was lke a wall between me and DoTA who was town.) My reaction is normal.

2. When I mentioned looking at my game, I meant mainly about why self-vote = bad.

Reads
--------
Known Town - Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town - Keyser and AI

Leaning Town - Performer (Nothing extreme, seems logical), Heat (Heat is fairly new like me. I can understand why he's suspicious of me considering PL pisskop yet not doing anything)

Neutral - Pisskop - His bd attitude at the start of the game annoys, but other than his constant ranting, I really cannot say anything against him.

Lean Scum - Axle - I haven't seen him do much scumhunting except focusing on my first few posts. Nonetheless, he has seemed to respond in a logical manner.

Likely Scum - Rad - 189 is ridiculous. Pisskop wasn't even at L-1 then. Then, 132 is rather ridiculous imo and just an attempt to frame me. He says alarm bells but doesn't explain why. Rather than ask me, he has jumped straight to faulty conclusions.

With that said,

VOTE: Rad

[Ircher]

By Rad I meant Ras; I misread the name.

[Ircher]

@Pisskop
You talking to me?

The suggestion of PLing someone has nothing to do with if they're scum or not. It's more of "This person is a troll who is making the game extremely unpleasant." It has nothing to do with right or wrong.

[Ircher]

Anything with a gif in it and more than 2 lines of text is getting ignored.

I have like no patience for most of Axle v keysor. Its a thing.

We're like brothers. This is how I know he is scum.

This is not like AI's behaviors with regard to me, or in general. Its much more pointed than any other experience I have with him, and is a reason I scumread him. Plus its offhanded to the point of being slightly insulting.

Has anyone seen these guys?:

This makes Keysor more town, but gdi I was skimming and actually thought I missed the music note posting. annoying


I completely forgot I answered the questions regarding my intent in 126,127,128. That makes the completely noncontentful Deus a scumread even more for being stupid and getting caught not reading.
I townlean axle and townread Massive.
I have no experience with heat either way, but they seem to be taking an involved stance and open to change. Thats usually a town trait.

AI is scummy, and shame on you who doesnt think so and isnt thir buddy. Deus reacted like oppurtunistic scum and can eat the rope too.

Meh. I dont doubt Icher is being genuine about not liking my posts *shrugs*, but its not entirely alignment indicative, its just not likeing the tone. Plenty of scum would call it out and mean it.

I did like how he interacted with keysor, so thats something.

Only two constructive posts I've seen from pisskop

[Ircher]

I am suggesting PL Pisskop.

He isn't contributing much and refuses to be civil or make decent, constructive posts. Instead, he keeps trolling everyone and making the game unpleasant. If he doesn't get replaced, I strongly sugges Policy Lynching him.

[Ircher]

VOTE COUNT 1.07

Pisskop (3): Burning_Earth, AlwaysInnocent, Deus Asmoth
Raskolnikov (3): Ircher, Performer, Keyser Söze
AlwaysInnocent (2): Heat, pisskop
UpTooLate (1): lilac
Ircher (1): Raskolnikov

No Vote (3): UpTooLate, massive, AxleGreaser

With 13 players living it takes 7/13 votes to lynch.

TIMER

6 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes

NOTES

Burning_Earth and lilac have not yet responded to prods.

Personally, I'm thinking the most likely scum canidates are: Book (who replaced Burning Earth), Lilac, Ras, Heat, and Pisskop.

Since this is 13p setup, I would imagine there is 3 scum in this game.

[Ircher]

Why Boonskiies and lilac?


Yes, there are 13 players, so we should expect 10 town and 3 mafia for balance.

Their slots have been replaced. Scum are more likely to be inctive than town.

[Ircher]

not even page 3
ircher looks really scummy

the only thing stopping a vote right now
is that ircher is newer and probably not in the swing
still really think keysey hammered him

2 pages isn't much. While I see why you'd scumread me then, I don't see why you would say you would vote me if it weren't my lack of experience. Such a vote would've been fine then, but right now, I think it would be ill-justified.

Time for a read list. The game has almost been solved already.

From town to scum:

Read List D1 V1

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Heat}

{Massive}
{Mafiaturtle}
{Burning_Earth, Deus}

{Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop, Keyser, Axle}

why do you call town scum and scum town
do they play mafia that way where youre from

What the heck! This is absolute nonsense; what you just said is AI does not know who town are and who scum are, so therefore, he's completely wrong. Ok, maybe I did poorly stating my thoughts here,

but FOS Droog

, as this could be considered a scumslip. It is AI's opinion, and furthermore, a town player wouldn't know who's town and who's scum except for themselves. Scum on the other hand would.

vote: pisskop

Like I dont even care about this game, and the fapterbation and trying to force us out of lylo with overanalysis is something both keysor and ai do.

I scumread ai for sure.  Take a look at his very small meta and tell me why.

VOTE: pisskop

Fixed formatting of vote tags! --Dier

No explanation? More on this further down.

Alarm bells went off in my head when I read these.

[spoiler*][/spoiler]

I really would like an explanation

from @Ras and @Droog

on what was so significant about those posts. I obviously must've done something that really caught your attention, so I'd like more than just Alarm Bells.

Now, about Pisskop:

I am of the opinion that Pisskop is town by this point. He would have to be either very brave or very stupid to behave as he has as scum.

Therefore, I shall post-pone my policy lynch suggetion to a later day where Pisskop's behavior may kill us.

I don't see why it is atrocious (according to Droog) to start or suggest a PL yet it is perfectly fine to join one. This, combined with the vote on Pisskop himself makes me

extremely suspicious

of Droog.

He currently ties Ras on scummiest player currently (and yes, I do think both are scum).

[Ircher]

Now that I think about it,

VOTE: Droog

[Ircher]

Just to answer any questions on my experience:

1. I have one newbie game on this site. I have linked to it in my sig along with info on my role and the outcome

2. I have played some mafia on another forum, but it prob. wouldn't count as a full game here. The forum is forum.supercell.net, and I played 2 games. The more recent one, I was 1-shot BP (note that everyone had a PR) and town lost in lylo. The other was never finished and I was a 1-shot BP (again, everyone had a pr). I had died N1 from getting shot by both the vig and the scum. Anyway, if you haven't figured it out, the rules are a lot more casual, and there is way less discussion. My first game on this site prob. has double the number of words those two games combined had. So, I would really say the games do not count except that I learned some basic mechanics of mafia there.

[Ircher]

I voted Droog because we still got time and I want to see what Droog thought about my analysis of him.

[Ircher]

You're misrepresenting me. Not liking policy or fast lynches early day 1 does not mean I have no intention to pressure or lynch anybody. I think even if a fast wagon finds a scum it's worthwhile to take time and analyse more instead of ending it with like a week left. Applying pressure is good but the feeling I was getting was that people were wanting to just get rid of him rather than pressuring for further info. Read my first game, its very short.

I would have to stay that I generally agree with everything Ras says here.

Overall, early lynches are bad for town. And for many of us, Pisskop's wagon was the result of our frustration with his playstyle. And, early lynching is the reason I stayed off the wagon -- read my first game, I behaved exactly the same.

But, let's forget Pisskop's wan; I'm currently thinking {Ras, Droog, Heat} are our scum team with Droog the strongest read and Heat the weakest.

[Ircher]

not even page 3
ircher looks really scummy

the only thing stopping a vote right now
is that ircher is newer and probably not in the swing
still really think keysey hammered him

2 pages isn't much. While I see why you'd scumread me then, I don't see why you would say you would vote me if it weren't my lack of experience. Such a vote would've been fine then, but right now, I think it would be ill-justified.

Time for a read list. The game has almost been solved already.

From town to scum:

Read List D1 V1

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Heat}

{Massive}
{Mafiaturtle}
{Burning_Earth, Deus}

{Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop, Keyser, Axle}

why do you call town scum and scum town
do they play mafia that way where youre from

1. What the heck! This is absolute nonsense; what you just said is AI does not know who town are and who scum are, so therefore, he's completely wrong. Ok, maybe I did poorly stating my thoughts here,

but FOS Droog

, as this could be considered a scumslip. It is AI's opinion, and furthermore, a town player wouldn't know who's town and who's scum except for themselves. Scum on the other hand would.

Respond here

vote: pisskop

Like I dont even care about this game, and the fapterbation and trying to force us out of lylo with overanalysis is something both keysor and ai do.

I scumread ai for sure.  Take a look at his very small meta and tell me why.

VOTE: pisskop

Fixed formatting of vote tags! --Dier

No explanation? More on this further down.

Alarm bells went off in my head when I read these.

2. I really would like an explanation

from @Ras and @Droog

on what was so significant about those posts. I obviously must've done something that really caught your attention, so I'd like more than just Alarm Bells.

And here

He currently ties Ras on scummiest player currently (and yes, I do think both are scum).

@Droog ^

[Ircher]

We should choose a few canidates for lynching D1 now, so we meet deadline.

I'm thinking Ras, Heat, and Droog. What about the rest of you?

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Quotes

Spoiler: Question1

What the heck! This is absolute nonsense; what you just said is AI does not know who town are and who scum are, so therefore, he's completely wrong. Ok, maybe I did poorly stating my thoughts here, but FOS Droog, as this could be considered a scumslip. It is AI's opinion, and furthermore, a town player wouldn't know who's town and who's scum except for themselves. Scum on the other hand would.

1. I am calling ai'a reads backwards

Spoiler: Question2

2. I do not get how you don't
See why I'm voting pisskop
Even he gets that it's policy
To be replaced

Spoiler: Question3

isn't much. While I see why you'd scumread me then, I don't see why you would say you would vote me if it weren't my lack of experience. Such a vote would've been fine then, but right now, I think it would be ill-justified.

3. Well I haven't made one yet

Your reading of me is so backwards
On every point
That you are actually looking more town

[/quote]

1. I'm not buying it. You said,

" do they play mafia that way where youre from"

It would've made more sense to say you

think

AI's reads are backwards directly rather than making the scumslip of the bolded line.

2. Your intentions don't seem genuine. That's my gut feeling.

3. Yet, if I were experienced, you would've voted me when you wote it. As I said, at the early stages, that would be acceptable, but when you replace in, you should read the entire thread before casting your vote. Imo, Motive > Action. I tried explaining this in my last game, but I don't think it worked well (in fact, I think it made me look worse.....) In other words, this basically boils down to you attempting to subtly mislead town and try to get a mislynch in.

PS: This is my argument for your lynch; esp. #1

[Ircher]

why are you waiting?
you have not responded to my responses
and are not pushing a case on me for everyone else

1. I'm not. I do wish for more engagement in the thread, but we are approaching deadline.
2. Just did
3. No, I have already, you just seemed to ignore the part that it was actually a case.

[Ircher]

ld choose a few canidates for lynching D1 now, so we meet deadline.

I'm thinking Ras, Heat, and Droog. What about the rest of you?

2. this is the problem post
ras has the largest wagon with 4 votes
and is your second scumread

3.but at this ponit you arent pushing a case on me
when id already responded
(you wait for me ot prod you on it again)
you aernt convincing anyone to vote me

1. and you ask for permission
y

ou ask for permission

to switch to your second scumread
on a strong wagon

1. Never did I say that. You twisted my words from trying to reach a concensus and getting info to requesting permission
2. And, what's wrong in getting the town's opinion? I do believe that's the point of the game
3. I've convinced myself, but I'll nail you tommorrow. I still think that comment about ai's reads is enough to consider you scum tbh. But, I'll write something substandial tommorrow.

[Ircher]

Also, there is 3 scum; nothing wrong with being fine with multipl lynch canidates.

[Ircher]

Oh, and I don't like zeroing in on a single person; I always keep my options open unless I know for a fact someone is scum.

[Ircher]

My case on Droog:

1. In 299, Droog writes "the

only

thing stopping a vote

right now

is that ircher is newer and probably not in the swing
still really think keysey hammered him" -

The way this is worded is weird to me. Look at what I italicized and bolded. What this basically states is that my inexperience kept Droog from voting me when writing the post. Which, like I said, reading 2 pages out of 12+ pages in a thread is not enough justification for a vote. I understand I looked scummy on page 2, but heck, that's

only page 2

of this game. I prob. wouldn't be suspicious of this post except for the fact that my page 2 behavior seems to warrant an automatic vote. You'd be perfectly fine just saying that you think I'm scum so far, but this seems more oportunistic than anything else. You saw an opportunity to try to lynch me and took it.

2. In 301, Droog apparently decides to state that AI's read list is backwards in a very weird way. -

The biggest problem I have here is your so called "quip". Anyway, I saw this as a scumslip as I've explained before.

3. 303 is completely irrelevent and considering we're no longer in RVS, I don't see why he made it.

4. Neither you nor Ras has explained the alarm bells. Personally, I don't see the huge problem with those posts.

5. Maybe I'm not explaining well, but Droog just didn't get me when he wrote 430. -

"what you have is me saying your entrance was scummy and if you werent experienced i wouldve voted on it" - Exactly. I'm fine with the former, but find the latter oportunistic.

6. In 432, Droog misinterprets my wish to hear other people's thoughts as an attempt to get confirmation to switch votes to Ras. -

First of all, you completely missed the motive of my post. Which means, you're either ignorant, scum misleading town, or I am doing a poor job expressing my thoughts. Second of all, you claim I am trying to get permission to change votes. Do you take me to be an idiot? I am well aware I do not need permission to change votes. Third, the longer the day, the better for town, as ton can get more info. So, rather than stay on the Ras wagon and lynch probable scum, I take the time to switch focus to another person and attempt to find the other scum. Bearing this in mind, I always know that if deadline is near, I can always switch to the Ras wagon. My post was completely town motivated. I see this as another post attempting to mislead town.

7. Consensus is necessary to arrive at the right conclusions. Although, I could've worded that response post a little better. See point #6.

8. In 437, you decide to vote ,e at

12:11 AM

my time complaining I had not answered your concerns despite the fact that I specifically stated "I will post my case tommorrow". Give me time to answer -

I understand your arguments, but the timing of your vote is rather unreasonable.

9. In 449, you attack AI for "whiteknighting" me. -

No problem with that part but there is something else I want to address here. You state I am not the perfect town read. I completely agree with you on that. But, let me ask you, are you the perfect? I think not. Do you make mistakes? I'm sure you do even if you don't admit to it. Therefore, AI is using my meta (as he played a game with me) as the basis of his read of me. If AI thought I was being inconsistent in my play style, he'd prob. call me out on it. Here, A is simply saying that ya'll haven't provided enough AI enough evidence to show I am scum. You accuse me of doing the same thing to you, so why don't you present a case on me yourself? (Note - I nullread this post)

10. Last point: your slot got replaced. While not necessarily alignment indicative, it does add some weight to my scumread of you.


I will admit I kinda exaggerated when I had said I'd nail Droog, but nonetheless, this is my ISO on Droog and why I think we should lynch him.

[Ircher]

Reading through ISO's. Something in Ircher's just bugs me.

111

I would jump on Pisskop's wagon for his very pooor conduct except he's at L-2 right now... Still, maybe we should policy lynch him?

This is normal behavior for me. I'm against early lynches.

115

I think he would deserve a Policy Lynch, but as I stated, I'm not jumping on the wagon because there is a good chance I'm wrong and pisskop is just being stubborn.

PL doesn't have anything to do with scum/town

234

I am suggesting PL Pisskop.

He isn't contributing much and refuses to be civil or make decent, constructive posts. Instead, he keeps trolling everyone and making the game unpleasant. If he doesn't get replaced, I strongly sugges Policy Lynching him.

279

Personally, I'm thinking the

most likely scum canidates are

: Book (who replaced Burning Earth), Lilac, Ras, Heat, and

Pisskop

.

Then in 350 (2 of his posts later):

I am of the opinion that Pisskop is town by this point.

He would have to be either very brave or very stupid to behave as he has as scum.

My reasoning is very logical here and town motivated.

Pushes for a PL over and over and over again, but doesn't want to be the one to do it. Nobody else is on board with him, so he jumps ship to Droog.

The rest of his posts just aren't convincing, and he doesn't seem solid on his reads

(seems like he could be easily swayed)

. I don't like this.

We'll see about that........

VOTE: Ircher

[Ircher]

1. Well, besides voting, what else is there you can do. Voting Pisskop really wouldn't be a good idea imo at the time.
2. I justified myself, did I not? Also, 2 posts could mean a difference if there is a lot of communication in between the postsm
3. Ok, yes, my reads do tend to change quite a bit. The thing is, I am pretty comfortable with my current reads even if it doesn't sem like it. Anyway, the main catalyst is when I reconsider things and possibilities. Games are dynamic, not static, so try to keep my reads the same way. As we get closer to the end, my reads will begin to narrow down.

I guess you do have a point here though.

@Droog
No, but I do expect you to take the hint of me not posting for an hour after stating "I'll post my case tommorrow".

And, you have not been screaming not to vote me. You've done the exact opposite by voting me.

[Ircher]

You accuse me of doing the same thing to you, so why don't you present a case on me yourself?

@Droog

[Ircher]

@Pisskop I meant "that" -- typo

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keysör - He's V/LA and he had a great start

Leaning Town

Pisskop - His behavior is bound to attract unnecessary attn. Very suicidal as scum.
Performer - Nothing notably scummy about him. Seems to be trying.
Axle - I liked his early interactions. Maybe I'm mistaken, but he seems to have disappeared.

Neutral

AI - My gut says he town, yet he doesn't seem to be contributing a lot of content. His read lists at least are helpful.
Golden - Deus replaced out; haven't really seen much from this slot
Heat - I've seen good and bad things from him.

Leaning Scum

Massive - He needs to contribute a lot more. He doesn't seem engaged in the game.
UpTooLate - Also needs to contribute more. He seems more engaged than Massive tho.

Likely Scum

Ras - I like how he decides to stop contributing when a wagon was formed on him. I also strongly dislike his entrance.
Boon - He needs to contribute a lot more. His slot has already replaced once and he reminds me of Njac (who was scum) in Newbie 1666.
Droog - I was a bit more confident with my read earlier. Still think he's scum, very poor entrance imo, and seems to not execute his own advice. Still, he seems like he's trying, so I'll give him that.

AI disagrees with lynching Droog. I can see a possibility for Droog to be town, even with my doubts. So, I'm thinking that since Boon has decided to not contribute (at all) to our discussions, we should lynch Boon.

VOTE: Boon

[Ircher]

Boon is natural lurker.

we arent D1 lynching Boon when his entire life story is lurking. Maybe tomorrow if he doesnt come out

Not at all valid excuse for lurking

considering Boon is a replacement

[Ircher]

Active: AI, Ircher, Droog, Pisskop
VA: Heat Key
Everyone else is rather inactive

[Ircher]

{Ras, Droog, Heat} --> Mafia
{Boon} --> SK if there is one.

[Ircher]

Lurking. I don't even lurk on purpose! I literally just leave the site! If I'm here, I post.

You replaced in = You have to be on for reasonable amounts of times providing substandial info

[Ircher]

highlight his fluff? It'd be easier if I highlight what wasn't fluff. Ircher's entire posting is fluff and looking for something to stick.

You cannot believe something 100% unles you prove it. So go right ahead and prove that the majority of my posts are fluff.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keyser - Prob. the most towny player overall in game so far. I will just put this out there that later, like D3 or so, I will strongly reevaluate my Keyser read if he's still alive.
Pisskop - He's finally contributed some very useful info. And again, his playstyle is not something that I think (most) scum can successfully pull off.

Leaning Town

Golden Robster - Cannot really elaborate here, more gut than anythng.

Neutral

Performer - Where'd you go? You stop participating! I liked your entraced, but you have not said much since then!
AI - @AI : Please stop acting like you are omnificent and answer people's questions. It makes you look like scum (which is a possibility), and it also indirectly make me look like scum cuz you keep defending me.
Axle - Ok I guess.

Leaning Scum

Droog - My read on him is getting weaker as I speak -- at least he participates
Massive - Stop being lazy and contribute
Heat - Considering my other reads....

Likely Scum

Boon - Claims all my posts are fluff yet refuses to prove it. If it really was that obvious then it would be easy to prove. No, I'm a good lynch target as I have suboptimal play, so all the scum decide to target me. Those who are voting me I strongly believe is not because I am very scummy, but rather, I play differently from others and that makes me a good target to frame for a lynch.
Ras - Still one of my top scum reads as he has not really participated ever since Droog replaced in. While right now I think Boon is prpb. at the top of my list (some reasons are prob. selfish), I would think he be the best lynch for D1. None of his behavior has been extremely towny, and he has been around the top of my list right now.
UTL - This guy is somewhat subtle. It's only after reconsidering the other things that people have said about his play that I'm makes me start to doubt his sincerity. Droog has gone down my list because he's active, and Heat, well, I think Heat is being a bit genuine compared to some other people in this game. I will have to keep a closer eye on this one.

I am fully aware I have a ton of neutral/scum reads. The only way that's changing if all these lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras) start contributing a lot more.

I offcially hate lurkers right now. It killed town last game I played, and it's killing me right now.

My most confident reads right now are {Ircher, Keyser, Pisskop, Ras}. The rest are either kinda participating (AI, Axle), close to being lurkers (Golden, UTL), or lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras). This excludes Droog, who I just have a weak read on, and Heat and Keyser who are VA.

@Game: PARTICIPATE

Like I stated above, imho, Ras would be the most logical lynch right now.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Ras

[Ircher]

Im awful confused why people think Im an easy lynch.

Its the way you play. Its different from the norm (so is mine it seems), so people dislike it. Anyway, other than a few early misunderstandings, I do think your playstyle is pretty effective.

[Ircher]

scapegoat taken away from you.

Ah, it is quite fun how scum try to target the so called "easy" tarhets only to find it is way more difficult than they imagined......

[Ircher]

[rev]Whatever[/rev]

[Ircher]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Red_Herring

Basically, AI has been doing the above the entire game.

[Ircher]

I just posted a reads list fyi. No, my gut tells me he's town, but his posts suggest he's scum. Therefore --> Neutral.

[Ircher]

Am I only leaning scum because of poe or is there something else?

I somewhat disliked your entrance and you've been V/LA for a while. There's also the fact I have a ton of other scum reads right now...

[Ircher]

Personally, I'm against the following lynches for D1:

{AI, Heat, Keyser, Ircher, Axle, Droog, Pisskop}

[Ircher]

I'm against a D1 Heat (and Droog) lynch because I think another day may help in sorting them out.

[Dierfire]

Spoiler: Boon Mostly Ridiculous Case Against Me

highlight his fluff? It'd be easier if I highlight what wasn't fluff. Ircher's entire posting is fluff and looking for something to stick.

You cannot believe something 100% unles you prove it. So go right ahead and prove that the majority of my posts are fluff.

1. Scum annoyed he's found out for a reason

he

thinks shouldn't be accurate. But alas, it is.

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keyser - Prob. the most towny player overall in game so far. I will just put this out there that later, like D3 or so, I will strongly reevaluate my Keyser read if he's still alive.
Pisskop - He's finally contributed some very useful info. And again, his playstyle is not something that I think (most) scum can successfully pull off.

Leaning Town

Golden Robster - Cannot really elaborate here, more gut than anythng.

Neutral

Performer - Where'd you go? You stop participating! I liked your entraced, but you have not said much since then!
AI - @AI : Please stop acting like you are omnificent and answer people's questions. It makes you look like scum (which is a possibility), and it also indirectly make me look like scum cuz you keep defending me.
Axle - Ok I guess.

Leaning Scum

Droog - My read on him is getting weaker as I speak -- at least he participates
Massive - Stop being lazy and contribute
Heat - Considering my other reads....

Likely Scum

Boon - Claims all my posts are fluff yet refuses to prove it. If it really was that obvious then it would be easy to prove. No, I'm a good lynch target as I have suboptimal play, so all the scum decide to target me. Those who are voting me I strongly believe is not because I am very scummy, but rather, I play differently from others and that makes me a good target to frame for a lynch.
Ras - Still one of my top scum reads as he has not really participated ever since Droog replaced in. While right now I think Boon is prpb. at the top of my list (some reasons are prob. selfish), I would think he be the best lynch for D1. None of his behavior has been extremely towny, and he has been around the top of my list right now.
UTL - This guy is somewhat subtle. It's only after reconsidering the other things that people have said about his play that I'm makes me start to doubt his sincerity. Droog has gone down my list because he's active, and Heat, well, I think Heat is being a bit genuine compared to some other people in this game. I will have to keep a closer eye on this one.

I am fully aware I have a ton of neutral/scum reads. The only way that's changing if all these lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras) start contributing a lot more.

I offcially hate lurkers right now. It killed town last game I played, and it's killing me right now.

My most confident reads right now are {Ircher, Keyser, Pisskop, Ras}. The rest are either kinda participating (AI, Axle), close to being lurkers (Golden, UTL), or lurkers (Boon, Massive, Ras). This excludes Droog, who I just have a weak read on, and Heat and Keyser who are VA.

@Game: PARTICIPATE

Like I stated above, imho, Ras would be the most logical lynch right now.

UNVOTE: Boon
VOTE: Ras

2. Really? See this everyone. He is legitimately going from one to another. My wagon started picking up steam, he went to it, based off of 'lurksack' reasoning. Now he's going to Ras, the current wagon. Come on. This actually gives town cred to Ras for me right now.

Im awful confused why people think Im an easy lynch.

Its the way you play. Its different from the norm (so is mine it seems), so people dislike it. Anyway, other than a few early misunderstandings, I do think your playstyle is pretty effective.

3. What exactly is 'the norm'?

scapegoat taken away from you.

Ah, it is quite fun how scum try to target the so called "easy" tarhets only to find it is way more difficult than they imagined......

4. This is completely a


kind of post. This quote is exactly what Ircher is doing.

Personally, I'm against the following lynches for D1:

{AI, Heat, Keyser, Ircher, Axle, Droog, Pisskop}

5. *yawn* Nothing really here, just annoying that he's in the middle of the pack. Also, he's buddying/WKing Heat/Keyser/Pisskop with this. He's been buddying the hell out of Pisskop.

{Ras, Droog, Heat} --> Mafia
{Boon} --> SK if there is one.

6. I honestly don't understand this. I'm being scum read as SERIAL KILLER? Because it was stated that I'm not having a mafia agenda, yet I'm still scum. -.-

Also, this wasn't the first time this was brought up; he just tagged up on it.

451 is just IioA.

Also, there is 3 scum; nothing wrong with being fine with multipl lynch canidates.

7. 'knows' there is 3 scum, and still start pushing for a SK lynch. I understand that it's easily assumed, but 3 mafia and a SK? Come on.

1. Well, besides voting, what else is there you can do. Voting Pisskop really wouldn't be a good idea imo at the time.
2. I justified myself, did I not? Also, 2 posts could mean a difference if there is a lot of communication in between the postsm

3. Ok, yes, my reads do tend to change quite a bit. The thing is, I am pretty comfortable with my current reads even if it doesn't sem like it.

Anyway, the main catalyst is when I reconsider things and possibilities. Games are dynamic, not static, so try to keep my reads the same way. As we get closer to the end, my reads will begin to narrow down.

I guess you do have a point here though.

@Droog
No, but I do expect you to take the hint of me not posting for an hour after stating "I'll post my case tommorrow".

And, you have not been screaming not to vote me. You've done the exact opposite by voting me.

8. This is a prime example of many Ircher posts. He reasons himself out of having to actually defend or make any kind of analysis.

Oh, and I don't like zeroing in on a single person; I always keep my options open unless I know for a fact someone is scum.

9. This is just to excuse him trying to get something started. 

3. I've convinced myself, but I'll nail you tommorrow. I still think that comment about ai's reads is enough to consider you scum tbh. But, I'll write something substandial tommorrow.

10. What is the point of that? Why focus elsewhere if this is the case.

I am suggesting PL Pisskop.

He isn't contributing much and refuses to be civil or make decent, constructive posts. Instead, he keeps trolling everyone and making the game unpleasant. If he doesn't get replaced, I strongly sugges Policy Lynching him.

11. Don't consider PL without any information coming out of it. Like, what would the point of PL be in this case? We would get absolutely no information, we would be down another townie in the night phase, possibly a PR. This does nothing but help scum, especially at that point in the day.

1. Actually, a good size of the game agreed that my posts were not neccessarily "fluff" at least not on first glance. So, it really wasn't as obvious as you supposed.

2. I'll have you know that's not true. Let me reread on this though. (Follow up in later post)

3. While everyone plays differently, a lot of players share common traits which is "the norm". It likes calling people normal; the current general meta is the norm. But, you just picked this just because, I see no reason for this to be interpreted as "fluff" (Not contributing any info, worthless)

4. Your such a fun killer.... I used ooc tags anyway.

5. Seriously! First of all, practically everyone *active* in the game townreads Keyser. So, just saying that I'm against a Keyser lynch should not be considered buddying/WK unless you want to accuse everyone in the game of doing so. Second of all, just because you don't want to lynch someone is not WK or buddying up.

I cannot understand you: either I get accused of changed my reads too much or I get accused of being to consistent in my reads.

6. Meh, that was earlier. One of the few valid points in your case I guess.

7. I don't comprehend. What's wrong with what I said?

8. No Response

9. No Comment

10. This makes no sense. Please elaborate.

11. I was a bit rash in the suggestion (it was at the top of my mind), but do you understand what a PL is, it doesn't seem like it. Also, you justed stated (in a matter-of-fact way) that Pisskop is town. I don't think a lot of people had strong townreads then, so scumslip.

What you seem to be doing is misrepping me.

If you are town, you might want to consider skimming D3 of the game in my sig, it might help you understand me better.

Fixed formatting of spoiler tags!

--Dier

[Ircher]

VOTE COUNT 1.07

Pisskop (3): Burning_Earth, AlwaysInnocent, Deus Asmoth
Raskolnikov (3): Ircher, Performer, Keyser Söze
AlwaysInnocent (2): Heat, pisskop
UpTooLate (1): lilac
Ircher (1): Raskolnikov

No Vote (3): UpTooLate, massive, AxleGreaser

With 13 players living it takes 7/13 votes to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-01-20 12:00:00)

NOTES

Burning_Earth and lilac have not yet responded to prods.

Now that I think about it,

VOTE: Droog

VOTE COUNT 1.10

Raskolnikov (3): Performer, Keyser Söze, massive
Pisskop (3): AlwaysInnocent, Deus Asmoth, droog
AlwaysInnocent (2): Heat, pisskop
Ircher (1): Raskolnikov
droog (1): Ircher

No Vote (3): UpTooLate, AxleGreaser, Boonskiies

With 13 players living it takes 7/13 votes to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-01-20 12:00:00)

NOTES

None

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Keysör - He's V/LA and he had a great start

Leaning Town

Pisskop - His behavior is bound to attract unnecessary attn. Very suicidal as scum.
Performer - Nothing notably scummy about him. Seems to be trying.
Axle - I liked his early interactions. Maybe I'm mistaken, but he seems to have disappeared.

Neutral

AI - My gut says he town, yet he doesn't seem to be contributing a lot of content. His read lists at least are helpful.
Golden - Deus replaced out; haven't really seen much from this slot
Heat - I've seen good and bad things from him.

Leaning Scum

Massive - He needs to contribute a lot more. He doesn't seem engaged in the game.
UpTooLate - Also needs to contribute more. He seems more engaged than Massive tho.

Likely Scum

Ras - I like how he decides to stop contributing when a wagon was formed on him. I also strongly dislike his entrance.
Boon - He needs to contribute a lot more. His slot has already replaced once and he reminds me of Njac (who was scum) in Newbie 1666.
Droog - I was a bit more confident with my read earlier. Still think he's scum, very poor entrance imo, and seems to not execute his own advice. Still, he seems like he's trying, so I'll give him that.

AI disagrees with lynching Droog. I can see a possibility for Droog to be town, even with my doubts. So, I'm thinking that since Boon has decided to not contribute (at all) to our discussions, we should lynch Boon.

VOTE: Boon

VOTE COUNT 1.14

Raskolnikov (3):, Keyser Söze, massive, AxleGreaser
Ircher (3): Raskolnikov, UpTooLate, Boonskiies
droog (2): pisskop, Performer
Boonskiies (2): Ircher, AlwaysInnocent
Pisskop (1): Golden Robster
AlwaysInnocent (1): Heat

No Vote (1): droog

With 13 players living it takes 7/13 votes to lynch.

TIMER

(expired on 2016-01-21 12:00:00)

NOTES

Prodding massive
Keyser on LA until 23 January
Heat on LA until 17 January

@Boon:

It's not really wagon hopping when you start the wagons. And fyi, mods always post VC's in order of when the wagon was formed, so if you cannot tell, I'm at the start of each wagon I've been on, including Ras's wagon. I'm not any more as I changed votes, but before you accuse someone of wagon hopping, get your facts straight.

[Ircher]

And, no, the only one I believe you're the first one on is mine, but you didn't start the push on it. In fact, I believe someone voted before you, but they have unvoted.

(Seriously, that's what you call ignorance).

[Ircher]

You haven't had an original thought this game. You are taking other people's cases and expanding, which you are doing pretty well, but it's just scum agenda.

This didn't hlp me last game,

BUT

:

Look on the flip side: What if I rolled town. Do you think its feasible or do you think I'm 99%+ scum?

Also, please define "original thought" as used in this context, as I'm pretty sure I don't agree with you on that part.

[Ircher]

Posting without scumhunting is called active lurking and it's worse than inactivity because I know you were here and aren't that invested whereas a lurker is often actually busy.

Says a lurker....

Let me ask -- how are you suppose to scumhunt when half the game ain't participating? you can't!

[Ircher]

I notice 2 players in here who are leaning scum for you (662), and not your townlean on golden robster. Can you explain why would you would be against lynching 2 of your scumleans over some of your neutral reads and a townlean?

This is actually a reasonable question:

Heat has been VA for awhile. I haven't had a chance to get a real up-to-date read on him, and I'm thinking there's a decent possibility he's town.

AI and Droog I'm gonna sort out the next day phase.... especially AI.

I left out Golden because he's mainly town for minor reasons; if I get a good enough argument for lynching him, then I'd be fine with it.

[Ircher]

Boon isn't wrong in saying that Ircher

can

fluffpost,

PS: We only have 2 days til deadline. We should really make a decision.

[Ircher]

So ... what exactly is your gut read based off of, then?

To be truthful it prob. be best I didn't say.

[Ircher]

No, not the avatars.

Personally, I'd lynch Boon, but I doubt I'll be able to make a case before deadline.

I'm against a Heat lynch; I feel there is not enough evidence right now
UTL is an okay lynch. His "reaction test" on me is definitely strange.
I'm not really keen on a Performer lynch. His recent posts do kinda alarm me.
And, Ras is still the best way to go currently.

So we don't have accidental hammers,

UNVOTE: Ras

My vote currently will be Ras for deadline unless we come to a concensus for a different lynch.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Lynch Preferences

I'd settle for her

(Performer)

or droog since axle isn't going anywhere.

I'd still be more comfortable with an Ircher lynch tbh. Or even AI.

I think I'm OK with a Performer lynch. I prefer an UpTooLate or Heat lynch, though.

ftr I still want an AI lynch

i dont want an ai lynch

but I would only support a Raskolnikov/UpToLate lynch at this stage.

Personally, I'd lynch Boon, but I doubt I'll be able to make a case before deadline.
UTL is an okay lynch. His "reaction test" on me is definitely strange.
I'm not really keen on a Performer lynch. His recent posts do kinda alarm me.
And, Ras is still the best way to go currently.

[Ircher]

Sorry @Droog

I was multiquoting and mustive deleted the wrong part; that should be attributed @UTL

[Ircher]

Whelp, I won't be on tommorrow in time for deadline, so:

VOTE: Ras

@Ras
In case you flip town:

Who do you think we should lynch D2?

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Final D1 Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
1. Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

- In Order
2. Keyser Söze - Definitely my strongest read aside from myself
3. Pisskop - Along with what other people have commented on Pisskop's behavior, I think there's a 90% chance Pisskop is town.

Leaning Town

- In Order
4. Golden Robster - Nothing sticks out from here, but I would like more from the slot.
5. AxleGreaser - I would say that he is very commited to the game and is genuinely trying to find scum. The way he approaches stuff I definitely like. Still, I think there is a good margin of error here.
6. Droog - He is fairly active and seems to be actively trying to solve the game.

Neutral

- In Order
7. Heat - I really haven't had a good chance to update my read of him. Still, I think my earlier scumread of him was personal reasons. Definitely will try to get a good read on this slot over the night and on D2.
8. Performer - This is one of my weaker reads. He had a great start, then seemed to just like vanish from the game, and then around deadline, he's back but plays in a way that is scummy.

FoS Performer

Leaning Scum

- In Order
9. Massive - My weakest read right now. This guy, I don't really understand. As far as I can tell, he hasn't contributed anything useful, and he has barely participated in the game. While Massive (seems) to have a habit of leaving on weekends, he didn't tell anyone, not even the mod. He assumed his meta was sufficient to explain his absence from the game. Imo, that's just wrong. Oh, and speaking of meta, he seems to assume that his meta is enough for anyone to read his alignment. Sounds to me like a scummy excuse to not participate in the game. I haven't read his meta (and prob. won't), but I'm pretty sure it is not that clear cut as he assumes.

FoS Massive

10. Boonskies - To be truthful, aside from his case against me, he hasn't really acted scummy. BUT, his case against me is extremely exaggerated and doesn't seem very genuine to me. Even after pointing out that I wasn't wagon hopping by actually quoting vc's as proof, he didn't seem to believe me. It could be Confirmation Bias on his end, but I think its prob. more scum-related motives trying to frame me.

Likely Scum

- In Order
11. UpTooLate - First of all, I'm starting to believe what others have said about her. As Keyser pointed out, her "reaction test" of me was not only ineffective, but also rather far-fetched. I'm not really beliving her alibi either. I'll reevaluate my read though in my Night review of the thread.
12. AlwaysInnocent - Well, it seems that AI has gione from an early likely town read to my currently highest scumread....

First of all, I will explain my "gut" read of AI that I earlier stated "prob. be best I didn't say". To begin with, when I made that statement, I was trying to avoid giving the scum more reasons to lynch me. Anyway, it boils down to three things: 1) (The oart that I didn't want to share) Confirmation Bias that AI is town (is that proper usage?) and 2) AI has posted way more this game than he did in Newbie 1666 as scum. and 3) AI was defending me. (Another thing I really didn't want to share then).

So, even that aside, why is AI now my top scum read? I've thought about AI's interactions, and they don't seem to be town motivated:

Refusing to answer questions? Check.
Buddying up to a townie to try to get that townie avoid lynching you? Check.
Providing very vague and terse reasons for scumreads? Check.
Not really scumhunting? Check.

I am convinced that AI is not really helping the town and the few useful things he has said seem to be more opportunistic and fabricated rather than town-motivated and genuine. I definitely need to sort this slot out D2.

FoS AI

Watch List:

- People who I need to keep a close eye on:
1. AlwaysInnocent - Scum Read (FOS)
2. Massive - Scummy Read (FOS)
3. Performer - Neutral Read (FOS)
4. Pisskop - Town Read
5. Heat - Neutral Read

This read list is what I'm feeling at the end of D1 prior to my reread of the thread at night.
My reads at the end of the entire sequence (end of N1) will be labeled as such and come after my night analysis post.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Game Notes - N1

1. In post 7 by AxleGreaser, we have the controversal RQ about fake-claiming. -

Three things I notice here: one, Axle bolded "general", Axle said "Speaking of Stalking" before it, and Axle asked ONLY Keyser. The last one really catches my attention - why was the question directed just at Keyser rather than the entire game? -

Null-Indicative

2. In post 9 by Axle, I find a very interesting message inside spoilers: "Trolling looks like they are having fun when other people do it. I am failing to get value for money, I must have been doing it wrong. Oh well, I guess I will just be me instead.". -

While it could be just random musings, it does seem a bit unusual to post. -

Null-indicative, but suspicious

3. In post 22 by Axle (why are all the interesting things Page 1 all from Axle?...), Axle makes a nonchalant, not-caring type of post. -

I'm not sure what to make of it, but it kinda caught my attention. -

Null-Indicative, but mysterious

4. In post 27 by me, I make the rather confusing statement that a lot of people think Axle is the scummiest player currently in the game when I meant that I thought Axle was the scummiest player in the game based off the comments of other players. This led me to get questioned by Keyser due to the way I worded the post (more likely, the statement was a typo -- I type stuff and don't bother checking). Well, I eventually cleared this up with Keyser and Axle. I did suggest a pre-flip association of Keyser and Axle, but I think that would no longer be the case.

5. In post 48, Pisskop makes a completely random statement flaming AI for no reason (as I can see). -

This is probably just part of Pisskop's playstyle, but from an outsider's objective point of view, this post -

Null to Scum Indicative

6. The exchange between Keyser and Axle on page 3 show their commitment to solving the game.

-

Town-Indicative

7. The AI on page 3 is definitely not the scum one from Newbie 1666 (linked in my sig). -

Despite AI giving practically useless posts, empty reads, etc., this is not the AI of N1666 D2 (who actually seemed to be helpful) nor does it match N1666 D3 (way more active in this case). As a result -

Null-Indicative

8. In post 81, AI writes that his providing of meatless reasoning for his reads only made sense in RVS and if he kep it up all game, it be right to call him a joke. -

Well, as far as I can tell, AI is not being useful and has kept up this behavior the entire game. Tsk, tsk, maybe you should start providing more thorough reasons for your reads, as it took (let's see...) 5? people to ask that you share why Heat's vote was opportunistic before you finally answered.... -

Future posts are Scum-Indicative

9. In 88, Axle explains some of my earlier points in this list. -

Null-Indicative

10. In 96, AI makes a good point about Pisskop's 66 post. -

AI stated that Pisskop implied he could not win with AI. Therefore, that could be considered a scumslip as only scum would know whether or not they can win with someone, especially that early in the game. Nice Catch! -

Null-Scum Indicative

11. In 100, Pisskop self-votes. -

Based on what I was taught in Newbie 1666, this is -

Very Scum-Indicative

. His reason is he no longer cares and he says something about Keyser and AI are trying to force us out of LyLo with overanalysis... I will assume he meant RVS, but if he really meant LyLo, I would find it scummy. -

I will take in account Pisskop's style of playing and the fact his wagon was rather weak (In other words, the motive of the self-vote), so I'll downgrade this to -

Scum-Indicative

12. In 127, Pisskop explains his self-vote. -

I missed the context earlier. So, Pisskop says its his meta to be obnoxious and trolling, etc. during the early stages of D1? I would personally say self-voting is not a good way to prove a point, BUT I am pretty sure this is just Pisskop's way of playing. -

Lessens Pisskop's Scumread

13. In post 136, Axle asks clarification on a matter. -

While this seems to be Axle's way of doing stuff, I do think Axle took that post too literally. Unlike what I said earlier, the intended meaning of the post was fairly obvious even if it was somewhat ambiguous. -

Null-Scum-Indicative

14. Post 145 is an

pre-flip associative speculation

-

I mention this post as Ras has flipped scum. AI at this point suggests that

Pisskop

and Ras may be scum buddies.

15. In post 152, Massive directly states, " Honestly I always find these statements so bizarre, I think I'm pretty easy to read as every alignment." -

If someone reads your meta, maybe. But, I don't really have time to read all your games. Also, saying you're easy to discern as every alignment - I see that falling close to having to do with trust tells. Last of all, meta can be manipulated. -

Scum-Indicative

16. As of 194, Ras townsreads

UTL and Heat

-

Another thing to consider. Note that I am merely noting any possible associative tells..

17. I was the first one on the Ras wagon when I made 213. -

I don't care what Boon thinks --I have checked and double-checked this to ensure this was the case. As far as I can tell, Performer didn't vote until 241 and everyone was focused on Pisskop before my vote. - Conclusion: I started the three main wagons I was on on D1.

18. My early townread of Performer mainly comes from posts like 247.

19. I find post 254 somewhat bastard. -

The only non-bastard reason I can see for the mod not commenting on whether DayTalk is available is if there is a Mafia Encryptor. Otherwise, I don't see how this info would tilt the game one way or another. Maybe it's my inexperience on this site and to the game....

20.

@AI

: Please explain the pre-flip associative part of 259.

21. In 264, UTL explains his thoughts at that point. -

I find this a very nice and informative post from UTL -

Null-Town-Indicative

22. In 265, Massive states " A big part of why I think I'm easily read is because I really dislike being scum -- it's not why I play the game, even though I realize it's a necessary evil -- and it tends to show in my scum games." -

By your own words, I think this must be one of your scum games. You haven't been contributing much and most of your posts seem more filler than anything. -

Scum-Indicative

22. Post 281 strikes me as suspicious. Boon says it is not not (double negative) Pisskop's town game. He claims that Pisskop wouldn't do anything to arouse suspicion as scum. -

This conflicts with Pisskop's earlier "point" when self-voting.

FoS Boon

. My impression is that Pisskop always acts like he has this game (though I am thinking that he might tone it down a little if he's scum). On the other hand, Boon is suggesting Pisskop never attracts attention to himself as scum. -

Null-Scum-Indicative; Weakens Pisskop Town Read

23.

@Axle

: In 286, Axle writes " @Thread if you want to interact with me about something, go pick something else. If you get all whatever about this "interaction" with massive, I will be quite fine with making a bunch of others." -

I would like Axle to clarify; he seems to be contradicting himself and I don't comprehend what he's saying. -

Null-Indicative

24. Axle's question probably fits 293's description. Though, not too many people are familiar with the concept and some have never heard of it. -

Null-Indicative

25. 299 by Droog still strikes me as suspicious, but maybe not alignment-indicative. -

Null-Indicative

26. In 301, Droog says in a very weird way that AI's reads are backwards combined with adding his own personal quip in it. -

I still find this a scumtell, but I am less adamant on it as I was before. -

Null-Scum-Indicative

27. 303 is a completely random question asked by Droog to Keyser. -

I still find this post scummy. One, we are way out of RVS. And two, how does that post contribute to the game? It's a legitimate question, yes, but I feel the timing of it, etc. is rather inappropriate. He could've sent it as a PM -- it had nothing to do with this particular game or any ongoing game, so it should be within site rules. He could also create a Mafia Discussion thread on the topic or he could've replied to the already existing Mastin Academy thread. In other words, it seems to be a red herring. -

Very Scum-Indicative

28. In 330, Pisskop mentions "sc". -

What does "sc" stand for?

29. In 354, UTL questions my motive of saying Pisskop is town yet considering PLing him later. -

This is what I call ignorance -- I made my intentions very clear. -

Null-Scum-Indicative

30. I have the same issue with Heat's 357 as I do with UTL's 354. I also see evidence that Heat doesn't fully understand how PL works. I'll put it this way: some players are so irratable that keeping them as town does more harm than conducting a PL on them. I will admit, D1 is early for a PL suggestion, but later along the line, if the player in question persists (and isn't replaced), then he/she will eventually get lynched as people find irritable players scummier than other players (at least that's how I see it). In particular, you wouldn't want to go in to LyLo with a person like what Pisskop was at the beginning of the game. -

Null-Indicative

[/i] Oh, and no, I don't think that Pisskop deserves a PL anymore, it's no longer postponed.

31. In 406,

AI

states he doesn't think Ras is scum. -

I'm pretty sure AI never told us why he felt this way. Could be a possible

associative

tell.

32. In 432, Droog accuses me of asking for permission to lynch Ras. -

This is odd to say the least. At best, he is merely misunderstanding what I was trying to accomplish. I think it might be a bit more probable though that Droog is twisting my words in order to try to make me look bad. -

Scum-Indicative

33. I like Axle's 438. -

I like the way Axle plays. If he has a question, he asks. And, he seldomly jumps straight to if-fy conclusions when he posts. He's helpful, so -

Town-Indicative

34. In 440, UTL votes me for my earlier PL "crusade" on Pisskop. -

My main gripe is towards the end of the post where UTL fails to consider the 80 posts between 279 and 350. She appears to think that 16+ hours and 80 posts is not enough time and content for one to rethink a situation and change their reads. Seems like trying to frame evidence if you ask me. -

Scum-Indicative

35.

I will not hold 447 against Golden.

-

I only suspect slots of being scum (for activity reasons) if they are force replaced, etc. By requesting replacement in thread, Deus did the right thing. -

Town-Indicative

36. In post 481, AI writes to Pisskop to just vote UTL and he'll townread Pisskop. -

This strikes me as suspicious. It could be some scum gambit (etc.), or maybe AI is trying to bribe people to lynch UTL (because he knows UTL is town and is trying to get a mislynch in)

FoS AI

-

Very Scum-Indicative

37. In 504, AI merely shrugs when Performer brings up a question to him. -

This just jumps out as anti-town... -

Scum-Indicative

38. 517 is a good catch by Droog - Performer finds it scummy when I switch from Ras to Droog yet does the same thing himself. --

Null-Indicative but weakens Performer Town-Read

39. Between 518  and 524, Droog seems to present a case against Pisskop. -

Thought this was worth mention -

Null-Indicastive

40. The Droog vs Pisskop fight on page 22 strikes me as

Townie vs.  Townie.

41. Starting at 548, Golden shares his thoughts on some players. -

Nothing really seems fabricated here -

Null-Town Indicative

42. In 556, Pisskop lists a few points against Droog and says in the next post that it is ironic on so many levels. -

I see nothing ironic in what Droog has said and what you posted in the list. Droog is definitely not a troll -

Null-Scum Indicative

43. I like how 568 and 569 by Droog both just say "(That was sarcasm). -

Null-Indicative

44. Why does the mod feel a need to bump the thread every so often? Like in 574

45. In 676, UTL states he voted me as a reaction test for AI. -

I really find this ridiculous -

Scum-Indicative

46. In 699, Boon accuses me of wagon-hopping. -

As I have proven, that is not the case, but rather, I am considering other possibilities while we still got time in D1. Aka, I am trying to get reads on other people, so I'm better equipped for D2 -

Scum-Indicative

(The next series will probably be all about Boon)

47. Boon somehow takes 664 as a scumslip in  702. -

Am I not allowed to have fun like AI and Pisskop have basically been doing the entire game? -

Scum-Indicative

48. Boon interprets 683 as "buddying the ****" out of the people I mentioned in that in Boon's 703 -

First of all, he  seems to have completely ignored my convenient reads lists.... oh wait, he did see my most recent one then -- he even accused me of stuff in that post! -- The reads list alone should be evidence that I was not buddying those people. Second of all, since when has saying you do not want to lynch someone D1 become budding/WK. No, this seems like scum Boon trying to frame me and mislynch me. -

Scum Indicative

49. 706 is totally out of context and I don't see where the word SK was mentioned in my 434 -

I find this -

Null-Scum Indicative

50. 709 also needs clarification from Boon. -

Null-Indicative

51. I hate to admit it, but Ras's analysis of me in 723 was fairly accurate.

52. In post 730 by Boon, Boon considers my 732 as me admitting I'm scum. -

At the very least, I'm pretty sure Boon is guilty of confirmation bias against me here. -

Null-Indicative

53. 723 is interesting... -

I scumread Massive for this.... -

Very Scum-Indicative

54. I don't see where Performer's vote on me in 781 came from... And how was Ras in your town pool???

55. I'm seeing a probable association between

Performer

and Ras on page 32.

56. I'm not buying UTL's explanation in 804

57. I dislike Ai's naked defense of Ras in 829

58. In 862, Droog hammers because he prob. won't be on later -

I see no prblems here-

Null-Town-Indicative

59. Posts 866 and 867 just seem wrong -

AI disapproves of the Ras lynch yet never specifies why. He then calls Droog's hammer "scummy ****". I see no problems with Droog's hammer -- no one can stay up for 24 hrs ad we were only 6 or less hours to deadline. Seems scum-motivated.... -

Scum Indicative

^ is why I

hate

quoting stuff - It already took me hours to write that; imagine how much additional time quoting stuff would take. So yeah, I don't tend to do quotes unless it is a single post I'm referencing.

Oh, and the spoiler is long -- really long -- I expect you to read it all, so you understand where I stand in the game as of the end of N1.

Just saying, it took me a total of about 6.5 hrs to compile this entire post. I will be very cross if I get NK N1 (personally think Keyser's the more-likely NK) and you shall invoke my ire if you completely ignore it. I really do hope this post helps you see where I am currently standing, and hopefully, Boon won't accuse me of making fluff with this post. Well, those were just some side comments I wanted to say...

[Ircher]

Spoiler: N1 Final Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
1. Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

- In Order
2. Keyser Söze - Just putting it out there that I would be surprised if he does not get NK'd.
3. AxleGreaser - I like his playstyle and he really hasn't done anything that is noticably scummy.

Leaning Town

- In Order
4. Golden Robster - Between Deus and him, they haven't posted much which is the main reason this is a lean read. The posts Golden have made are reasonable and seem thought-out.
5. Pisskop - I've reconsidered my read here. He does seem to be contributing to the town but my earlier read of his gameplay style I think is somewhat invalid. It seems this is how he always plays.
6. Droog - His hammer was reasonable and other than a few gripes with his  entrance, I think he is trying to solve the game.

Neutral

- In Order
7. Heat - If it weren't for him being V/LA for awhile, I would have an actual read on this slot. Right now, I've seen things I understand from his PoV, and things I cannot understand from his PoV.
8. BoonSkies - I think this slot is guilty of confirmation bias against me. I'd like to see his thoughts on someone besides me.

Leaning Scum

- In Order
9. AlwaysInnocent - My review has got me rethinking this slot. I'm still pretty sure something doesn't add up here, but by PoE, I'm not quite as comfortable with this lynch. I dislike how he disapproved of Droog's hammer and he didn't seem to explain his townread of Ras at the end of D1.
10. Massive - I don't think he's really helping us a lot. Definitely haven't see anything very towny from this slot. He could start by being more active. He could also stop assuming that 1) everyone will read his meta and 2) his alignment is easy to discern. Finally, he should really communicate with the mod if he's going to be absent; just cuz his meta says he doesn't play on weekends doesn't mean everyone will know that. The only thing holding me back from putting this under likely scum is his low number of posts.

Likely Scum

- In Order
11. UpTooLate - His reaction test makes zero sense and I'm starting to see scum motivation in his posts.
12. Performer - I think that the association case between Performer and Ras is fairly strong. His catchup on the 30's pages just don'r read town to me.

And that is the end of my posts detailing my thoughts at night of this game.

[Ircher]

N1 has ended.

AlwaysInnocent (Town JOAT)

was found dead.

D2 begins now.

Is it just me, or does it seem odd for AI to have been NK'd?

[Ircher]

@Massive
Please consider my D2 posts first

[Ircher]

Wait a minute.

You think Performer is scum when he explicitly states that Ras is one of his scum reads during one the earlier posts.

I don't see your argument here.

Also, it is not unheard of (at all) of scum bussing their partners, especially when it is desparate.

[Ircher]

Meh...

VOTE: Massive

[Ircher]

Performer/Ircher/Ras is like the most transparent scum team I've seen in a while.

Just look at Ircher trying so hard to get something else to stick.

What's wrong with voting Massive?

One look at his ISO would be enough to be suspicious.

[Ircher]

Also, what's up with the tunnelling @Boon

I mean, is it only me who sticks out to you? You seem to be so sure I'm scum that you pursue me at the exclusion of everyone else.

Trying to lynch someone you think is scum is good, but don't go overboard, there is ALWAYS that chance you are wrong.

[Ircher]

You're saying scum Ircher killed AI, despite AI hard defending Ircher? Wouldn't scum Ircher want to leave AI alive as long as possible, for AI to keep defending him?

Yeah, that was the end conclusion I came to as well. Spent most of the weekend thinking about this. I went through a number of scenarios (including scum-Ircher being bullied by his teammates, Ircher feeling like he had enough towncred to survive) but this one seems most likely. It might not need to be sorted today, but maybe Ircher can explain why he was going along with it all?

See below

One look at his ISO would be enough to be suspicious.

You can just say OMGUS, you don't have to point to some non-existent case.

Oh, not familiar with how you use some of these terms here. Thanks.

Likely Scum

- In Order
12. AlwaysInnocent - Well, it seems that AI has gione from an early likely town read to my currently highest scumread....

First of all, I will explain my "gut" read of AI that I earlier stated "prob. be best I didn't say". To begin with, when I made that statement, I was trying to avoid giving the scum more reasons to lynch me. Anyway, it boils down to three things: 1) (The part that I didn't want to share) Confirmation Bias that AI is town (is that proper usage?) and 2) AI has posted way more this game than he did in Newbie 1666 as scum. and 3) AI was defending me. (Another thing I really didn't want to share then).

It is very simple: you are less likely to get lynched if you have someone defending you.

I was gonna sort it out today, but AI got NK'd......

Speaking of NK, I have another theory on the reason AI was killed, but Boon would probably just use it as more reason to lynch me...

@Boon
It doesn't matter who you vote if all you do is catch every little thing that is wrong about my posts; it is quite obvious you are studying me meticulously and just skimming everyone else.

[Ircher]

I mean, Ircher is digging his own grave with me by continuing to not do anything but state that he 'would' do something. Like, I'm not even voting Ircher.

(As they all say -- This is only the 2nd time I kept my ideas to myself, and if you didn't notice, I explained the other in my "Final D1 Reads" list I posted at the start of D2).

Well, ok, here's the theory:

Scum sees an opportunity to get me mislynched. They try to get me lynched but cannot because AI is around (they would def. need AI's support if they are gonna get a lynch on me). Therefore, they NK AI to remove the impediment in getting a mislynch accomplished.

[Ircher]

'it doesn't matter what I say, if you watch everything I say'? T

The key here is you are

too focused

on me. I have no problem with you studying my posts, but please, don't

just

study my posts.

@Massive
I looked at your ISO - Less than 20 posts out of a game with over 900 posts....

20 / 900 = 2 / 90....

That's some great lurking you've done! And, your slot wasn't replaced! So, I'm just wondering: why haven't you contributed much. Activity isn't always scum-indicative, but it is certainly not something to be overlooked.

[Ircher]

1/45

Shame on me....
1 / 45 = 2.2222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222%

On a more serious note:

@Axle
Noted

[Ircher]

@Massive
Yes, but your iso is extremely small (again 2% of the entire game), and none of your posts are extremely long. Most of them are decent length, but tossing meta aside, it seems to me like you are trying to avoid pressure. By not posting much, you make fewer mistakes. The fewer mistakes you make, the less likely you will be suspected. And, as scum, that's exactly what scum want. Sure, it isn't alignment indicative, but it is not fun to play with people who post so little. Furthermore, it is extremely hard to discern the alignment of people like you due to the low quantity of posts.

[Ircher]

Why Massive over your "likely scum" reads?

You quoted the wrong reads lists fyi. The answer being to ________________________ Massive _______________________.

[Ircher]

@Massive
My first question to you: What are your current reads?
I don't care if you like read lists or not, but I just looked at your ISO anddon't really have a clear picture of who you think are town and who you think are scum.

I would like reads on every player that includes the following info:

Name (Duh!)
Town/Neutral/Null/Scum (Null is no read, neutral is mixed read)
A small commentary on why you feel that way.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: @ircher

You probably need to proof read this bit and explain whatever it is that you meant again.

53. 723 is interesting... - I scumread Massive for this.... - Very Scum-Indicative

The above is a rask post about boon ircher and perhaps tangentially pk.
No massive or lots of other people anywhere in sight.

I am treating any other ? marks in there as rhetorical questions, as some of them you seem to answer yourself later in the post.

I was running out of time at the end. Since I did it in chronological order, I prob. typed the wrong post number and like I just said, I didn't really have time to write a description.....
So, to be truthful, I honestly don't remember which post I meant......

[Ircher]

@Axle
Prob. 739 when I wrote it -- I don't see why you would expect not to get prodded when you are gone for more than 2 days without notifying the mod.

Though, I prob. shouldn't've wrote it as very scum-indicative.....

[Ircher]

ircher, thoughts on performer?

Probably scum due to his interactions at the end of D1.

My point in voting massive (which isn't working) is to try to get a more stable read on massive. Maybe I was too demanding, but I'd really like more than 20 posts from him.

Basically, what I have against Massive is that he isn't allowing himself to be scrutinized; it would be impossible to get a fair read on him because there isn't enough material to consider. The fact that he has seemed to regard my request for a reads list from him as pointless is a bit strange. If we allow him to coast through this game, then we could be doomed; apparently, I'm the only who thinks he should be a bit more active, regardless of meta.

The way I see it, mods give 48 hrs before prods because sometimes you get super busy and cannot play for awhile. I see the way Massive plays as an abuse of the system: he posts only 2-3 times a weeks and is completely absent on weekends. That isn't proper in my opinion. While I don't think you shouldn't spam the thread, I also think you should stay engaged in the thread and strive to post at least once a day. I know some people have a busy schedule, but if you are so busy that you cannot post once a day regularly, I question why you signed up/haven't replaced out yet.

My biggest issue is how Massive takes the weekends off. With only 10 days to a day, that is a very efficient way (as scum) to avoid having to scumhunt and appear as town.

So, let me ask all of you:.

What has Massive done that makes you townread him?

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Game Notes - N1

1. In post 7 by AxleGreaser, we have the controversal RQ about fake-claiming. -

Three things I notice here: one, Axle bolded "general", Axle said "Speaking of Stalking" before it, and Axle asked ONLY Keyser. The last one really catches my attention - why was the question directed just at Keyser rather than the entire game? -

Null-Indicative

2. In post 9 by Axle, I find a very interesting message inside spoilers: "Trolling looks like they are having fun when other people do it. I am failing to get value for money, I must have been doing it wrong. Oh well, I guess I will just be me instead.". -

While it could be just random musings, it does seem a bit unusual to post. -

Null-indicative, but suspicious

3. In post 22 by Axle (why are all the interesting things Page 1 all from Axle?...), Axle makes a nonchalant, not-caring type of post. -

I'm not sure what to make of it, but it kinda caught my attention. -

Null-Indicative, but mysterious

4. In post 27 by me, I make the rather confusing statement that a lot of people think Axle is the scummiest player currently in the game when I meant that I thought Axle was the scummiest player in the game based off the comments of other players. This led me to get questioned by Keyser due to the way I worded the post (more likely, the statement was a typo -- I type stuff and don't bother checking). Well, I eventually cleared this up with Keyser and Axle. I did suggest a pre-flip association of Keyser and Axle, but I think that would no longer be the case.

5. In post 48, Pisskop makes a completely random statement flaming AI for no reason (as I can see). -

This is probably just part of Pisskop's playstyle, but from an outsider's objective point of view, this post -

Null to Scum Indicative

6. The exchange between Keyser and Axle on page 3 show their commitment to solving the game.

-

Town-Indicative

7. The AI on page 3 is definitely not the scum one from Newbie 1666 (linked in my sig). -

Despite AI giving practically useless posts, empty reads, etc., this is not the AI of N1666 D2 (who actually seemed to be helpful) nor does it match N1666 D3 (way more active in this case). As a result -

Null-Indicative

8. In post 81, AI writes that his providing of meatless reasoning for his reads only made sense in RVS and if he kep it up all game, it be right to call him a joke. -

Well, as far as I can tell, AI is not being useful and has kept up this behavior the entire game. Tsk, tsk, maybe you should start providing more thorough reasons for your reads, as it took (let's see...) 5? people to ask that you share why Heat's vote was opportunistic before you finally answered.... -

Future posts are Scum-Indicative

9. In 88, Axle explains some of my earlier points in this list. -

Null-Indicative

10. In 96, AI makes a good point about Pisskop's 66 post. -

AI stated that Pisskop implied he could not win with AI. Therefore, that could be considered a scumslip as only scum would know whether or not they can win with someone, especially that early in the game. Nice Catch! -

Null-Scum Indicative

11. In 100, Pisskop self-votes. -

Based on what I was taught in Newbie 1666, this is -

Very Scum-Indicative

. His reason is he no longer cares and he says something about Keyser and AI are trying to force us out of LyLo with overanalysis... I will assume he meant RVS, but if he really meant LyLo, I would find it scummy. -

I will take in account Pisskop's style of playing and the fact his wagon was rather weak (In other words, the motive of the self-vote), so I'll downgrade this to -

Scum-Indicative

12. In 127, Pisskop explains his self-vote. -

I missed the context earlier. So, Pisskop says its his meta to be obnoxious and trolling, etc. during the early stages of D1? I would personally say self-voting is not a good way to prove a point, BUT I am pretty sure this is just Pisskop's way of playing. -

Lessens Pisskop's Scumread

13. In post 136, Axle asks clarification on a matter. -

While this seems to be Axle's way of doing stuff, I do think Axle took that post too literally. Unlike what I said earlier, the intended meaning of the post was fairly obvious even if it was somewhat ambiguous. -

Null-Scum-Indicative

14. Post 145 is an

pre-flip associative speculation

-

I mention this post as Ras has flipped scum. AI at this point suggests that

Pisskop

and Ras may be scum buddies.

15. In post 152, Massive directly states, " Honestly I always find these statements so bizarre, I think I'm pretty easy to read as every alignment." -

If someone reads your meta, maybe. But, I don't really have time to read all your games. Also, saying you're easy to discern as every alignment - I see that falling close to having to do with trust tells. Last of all, meta can be manipulated. -

Scum-Indicative

16. As of 194, Ras townsreads

UTL and Heat

-

Another thing to consider. Note that I am merely noting any possible associative tells..

17. I was the first one on the Ras wagon when I made 213. -

I don't care what Boon thinks --I have checked and double-checked this to ensure this was the case. As far as I can tell, Performer didn't vote until 241 and everyone was focused on Pisskop before my vote. - Conclusion: I started the three main wagons I was on on D1.

18. My early townread of Performer mainly comes from posts like 247.

19. I find post 254 somewhat bastard. -

The only non-bastard reason I can see for the mod not commenting on whether DayTalk is available is if there is a Mafia Encryptor. Otherwise, I don't see how this info would tilt the game one way or another. Maybe it's my inexperience on this site and to the game....

20.

@AI

: Please explain the pre-flip associative part of 259.

21. In 264, UTL explains his thoughts at that point. -

I find this a very nice and informative post from UTL -

Null-Town-Indicative

22. In 265, Massive states " A big part of why I think I'm easily read is because I really dislike being scum -- it's not why I play the game, even though I realize it's a necessary evil -- and it tends to show in my scum games." -

By your own words, I think this must be one of your scum games. You haven't been contributing much and most of your posts seem more filler than anything. -

Scum-Indicative

22. Post 281 strikes me as suspicious. Boon says it is not not (double negative) Pisskop's town game. He claims that Pisskop wouldn't do anything to arouse suspicion as scum. -

This conflicts with Pisskop's earlier "point" when self-voting.

FoS Boon

. My impression is that Pisskop always acts like he has this game (though I am thinking that he might tone it down a little if he's scum). On the other hand, Boon is suggesting Pisskop never attracts attention to himself as scum. -

Null-Scum-Indicative; Weakens Pisskop Town Read

23.

@Axle

: In 286, Axle writes " @Thread if you want to interact with me about something, go pick something else. If you get all whatever about this "interaction" with massive, I will be quite fine with making a bunch of others." -

I would like Axle to clarify; he seems to be contradicting himself and I don't comprehend what he's saying. -

Null-Indicative

24. Axle's question probably fits 293's description. Though, not too many people are familiar with the concept and some have never heard of it. -

Null-Indicative

25. 299 by Droog still strikes me as suspicious, but maybe not alignment-indicative. -

Null-Indicative

26. In 301, Droog says in a very weird way that AI's reads are backwards combined with adding his own personal quip in it. -

I still find this a scumtell, but I am less adamant on it as I was before. -

Null-Scum-Indicative

27. 303 is a completely random question asked by Droog to Keyser. -

I still find this post scummy. One, we are way out of RVS. And two, how does that post contribute to the game? It's a legitimate question, yes, but I feel the timing of it, etc. is rather inappropriate. He could've sent it as a PM -- it had nothing to do with this particular game or any ongoing game, so it should be within site rules. He could also create a Mafia Discussion thread on the topic or he could've replied to the already existing Mastin Academy thread. In other words, it seems to be a red herring. -

Very Scum-Indicative

28. In 330, Pisskop mentions "sc". -

What does "sc" stand for?

29. In 354, UTL questions my motive of saying Pisskop is town yet considering PLing him later. -

This is what I call ignorance -- I made my intentions very clear. -

Null-Scum-Indicative

30. I have the same issue with Heat's 357 as I do with UTL's 354. I also see evidence that Heat doesn't fully understand how PL works. I'll put it this way: some players are so irratable that keeping them as town does more harm than conducting a PL on them. I will admit, D1 is early for a PL suggestion, but later along the line, if the player in question persists (and isn't replaced), then he/she will eventually get lynched as people find irritable players scummier than other players (at least that's how I see it). In particular, you wouldn't want to go in to LyLo with a person like what Pisskop was at the beginning of the game. -

Null-Indicative

[/i] Oh, and no, I don't think that Pisskop deserves a PL anymore, it's no longer postponed.

31. In 406,

AI

states he doesn't think Ras is scum. -

I'm pretty sure AI never told us why he felt this way. Could be a possible

associative

tell.

32. In 432, Droog accuses me of asking for permission to lynch Ras. -

This is odd to say the least. At best, he is merely misunderstanding what I was trying to accomplish. I think it might be a bit more probable though that Droog is twisting my words in order to try to make me look bad. -

Scum-Indicative

33. I like Axle's 438. -

I like the way Axle plays. If he has a question, he asks. And, he seldomly jumps straight to if-fy conclusions when he posts. He's helpful, so -

Town-Indicative

34. In 440, UTL votes me for my earlier PL "crusade" on Pisskop. -

My main gripe is towards the end of the post where UTL fails to consider the 80 posts between 279 and 350. She appears to think that 16+ hours and 80 posts is not enough time and content for one to rethink a situation and change their reads. Seems like trying to frame evidence if you ask me. -

Scum-Indicative

35.

I will not hold 447 against Golden.

-

I only suspect slots of being scum (for activity reasons) if they are force replaced, etc. By requesting replacement in thread, Deus did the right thing. -

Town-Indicative

36. In post 481, AI writes to Pisskop to just vote UTL and he'll townread Pisskop. -

This strikes me as suspicious. It could be some scum gambit (etc.), or maybe AI is trying to bribe people to lynch UTL (because he knows UTL is town and is trying to get a mislynch in)

FoS AI

-

Very Scum-Indicative

37. In 504, AI merely shrugs when Performer brings up a question to him. -

This just jumps out as anti-town... -

Scum-Indicative

38. 517 is a good catch by Droog - Performer finds it scummy when I switch from Ras to Droog yet does the same thing himself. --

Null-Indicative but weakens Performer Town-Read

39. Between 518  and 524, Droog seems to present a case against Pisskop. -

Thought this was worth mention -

Null-Indicastive

40. The Droog vs Pisskop fight on page 22 strikes me as

Townie vs.  Townie.

41. Starting at 548, Golden shares his thoughts on some players. -

Nothing really seems fabricated here -

Null-Town Indicative

42. In 556, Pisskop lists a few points against Droog and says in the next post that it is ironic on so many levels. -

I see nothing ironic in what Droog has said and what you posted in the list. Droog is definitely not a troll -

Null-Scum Indicative

43. I like how 568 and 569 by Droog both just say "(That was sarcasm). -

Null-Indicative

44. Why does the mod feel a need to bump the thread every so often? Like in 574

45. In 676, UTL states he voted me as a reaction test for AI. -

I really find this ridiculous -

Scum-Indicative

46. In 699, Boon accuses me of wagon-hopping. -

As I have proven, that is not the case, but rather, I am considering other possibilities while we still got time in D1. Aka, I am trying to get reads on other people, so I'm better equipped for D2 -

Scum-Indicative

(The next series will probably be all about Boon)

47. Boon somehow takes 664 as a scumslip in  702. -

Am I not allowed to have fun like AI and Pisskop have basically been doing the entire game? -

Scum-Indicative

48. Boon interprets 683 as "buddying the ****" out of the people I mentioned in that in Boon's 703 -

First of all, he  seems to have completely ignored my convenient reads lists.... oh wait, he did see my most recent one then -- he even accused me of stuff in that post! -- The reads list alone should be evidence that I was not buddying those people. Second of all, since when has saying you do not want to lynch someone D1 become budding/WK. No, this seems like scum Boon trying to frame me and mislynch me. -

Scum Indicative

49. 706 is totally out of context and I don't see where the word SK was mentioned in my 434 -

I find this -

Null-Scum Indicative

50. 709 also needs clarification from Boon. -

Null-Indicative

51. I hate to admit it, but Ras's analysis of me in 723 was fairly accurate.

52. In post 730 by Boon, Boon considers my 732 as me admitting I'm scum. -

At the very least, I'm pretty sure Boon is guilty of confirmation bias against me here. -

Null-Indicative

53. 723 is interesting... -

I scumread Massive for this.... -

Very Scum-Indicative

54. I don't see where Performer's vote on me in 781 came from... And how was Ras in your town pool???

55. I'm seeing a probable association between

Performer

and Ras on page 32.

56. I'm not buying UTL's explanation in 804

57. I dislike Ai's naked defense of Ras in 829

58. In 862, Droog hammers because he prob. won't be on later -

I see no prblems here-

Null-Town-Indicative

59. Posts 866 and 867 just seem wrong -

AI disapproves of the Ras lynch yet never specifies why. He then calls Droog's hammer "scummy ****". I see no problems with Droog's hammer -- no one can stay up for 24 hrs ad we were only 6 or less hours to deadline. Seems scum-motivated.... -

Scum Indicative

^ is why I

hate

quoting stuff - It already took me hours to write that; imagine how much additional time quoting stuff would take. So yeah, I don't tend to do quotes unless it is a single post I'm referencing.

Oh, and the spoiler is long -- really long -- I expect you to read it all, so you understand where I stand in the game as of the end of N1.

Just saying, it took me a total of about 6.5 hrs to compile this entire post. I will be very cross if I get NK N1 (personally think Keyser's the more-likely NK) and you shall invoke my ire if you completely ignore it. I really do hope this post helps you see where I am currently standing, and hopefully, Boon won't accuse me of making fluff with this post. Well, those were just some side comments I wanted to say...

@UTL: One Question --> Do you think scum would take the time to go through the thread again and make the above post?

[Ircher]

TIMER

4 days, 15 hours, 31 minutes

We're getting no where..... Scum must really be enjoying D2 right now.

[Ircher]

@Axle
Prob. 739 when I wrote it -- I don't see why you would expect not to get prodded when you are gone for more than 2 days without notifying the mod.

Though, I prob. shouldn't've wrote it as very scum-indicative.....

I don't see why you think a person with a scum PM, would be more likely to think/expect that, even a little.

There's also the fact that scum want to avoid pressure. This would be the perfect excuse to not participate in the game.

[Ircher]

I do it all the time in my offsite games as scum, so yes.

(Not Expecting That...)

Okay, let me rephrase the question:

Do you think

most

scum would make such a detailed analysis post during the night?

[Ircher]

The real question you are failing to answer, Ircher, is whether or not my gameplay / participation changes between being scum and being town. You want to push it as scummy, but no one is biting because a simple review of a variety of my games would see I play the same as any alignment.

You want to scrutinize me, why not ask me questions? Why not answer my question (who no one seemed to answer) about whether 787 looked like something a scum partner would say about Rask?

And what you fail to realize is it is nearly impossible to discern your alignment with the way you play. I did imply that it was scummy, but its less scummy and more I want you to participate more.

As to your question -- It does look a desparate Performer who is doing a last minute bus of his partner. Definitely dob't think a read can change that quick.

[Ircher]

And I already asked -- I want a reads list from you.

[Ircher]

@Axle I was scum leaning Ras for his very brief and mysterious posts. Later in d1 though, he addressed people’s questions to him. He’s been continuing to stay engaged and sounded logical in his posts, so I changed my read on him. He looks better than others like Ircher, massive.

K, caught up with the recent post from Rask on pg 32, and reviewed pg 31 interactions with Rask. It's deadline and the guy put up a periphery post about Axle/Ircher/AI/Droog, on pg 32. His pg 31 doesn't look good either, it's like he doesn't care about or wants to actively impede progress. Deadline is just around the corner, I'm changing my read on Rask again after this deliberation.

VOTE: Rask

Look at the post timestamps.

In 7 minutes, Performer apparently reads 2 pages and comes up with this hasty conclusion. He also says "He's been continuing to stay engaged and sounded logical in his posts". I definitely don't think Ras was engaged until his lynch was inevitable.

But, assuming he did catch up during that short period time, there still is the fact that Performer switched votes when it was convenient.

I prob. wouldn't accept the lousy excuse of "welp, its deadline"; truly, I think Performer would've been off keeping his reads rather than trying to follow everyone else and look town.

[Ircher]

look at this post I made! scum wouldn't do that!!

Did I say that? I don't think so.
I asked a question, and not getting quite the answer I was expecting, I asked for clarification.

How 'bout I ask this question: Is everything that is not

neccessarily

towny scummy?

Also, meta is a huge thing here, so: Is the way one person plays "wrong" just because it is different from another person who is "right"?

Maybe this will expand your outlook on things.

[Ircher]

@Massive
Yes, but your iso is extremely small (again 2% of the entire game), and none of your posts are extremely long. Most of them are decent length, but tossing meta aside, it seems to me like you are trying to avoid pressure.

Do you think I am under pressure? Do you think I was under pressure Day 1?

That's the point: you aren't

I'm hoping to be less busy today because there are some things I want and need to go back and look at again. I know there are some questions I've missed somewhere and I want to make sure I answer them, so let me know if anything is outstanding. Besides Ircher's demand that I produce a complete wall of my reads and thought processes, which sounds like busy work.

Reads lists are not busy work. Basically, what I want is something that is similar to the way I do them. It gives everyone a view of where you stand and why in a condensed form.

[Ircher]

I wasn't expecting AI to get nked tbh
I also wasn't expecting ras to flip scum but w/e. I love surprises!

Time to go look at who AI was scumreading

An innocious sounding post, but maybe some hidden pretexts inside?

While I can see why Heat would reevaluate his reads considering two of his reads were wrong, why does he need to look at who AI was scum reading?

[Ircher]

hang on hang on hang on

why the risistance to performer

im am not seeing any defenses of performer
only the irchir attack sideshow

who thinks performer is town

]

Well, I'm trying to discern a few alignments right now. But no, I do not really see any defense of Performer.

I'm

*assuming*

that Massive is neutral on Performer, but I cannot tell for sure cuz he thinks read lists are

"busy work"

[Ircher]

And @Everyone aside from the mod:

Please stop misspelling my name. It is "Irch

e

r", not "Irchir"

[Ircher]

Now we're getting places (finally).

[Ircher]

@Boon
No, I refuse to vote just for the heck of it.
I will vote when deadline approaches.

[Ircher]

@Boon -- Why do you want to lynch Performer so quickly?

I guess I'll have to find a way to discern massive's alignment later.

Let's see.... Performer's out -- He's L-1 -- Will consider this one closer to deadline
Not voting Pisskop, Keyser, or Axle -- Townreads
Meh, I think Heat's being sincere in his posts
Golden has disappeared but I doubt he is scum.
I'm unsure about Droog and I think Boon just likes to tunnel everyone....
And, I'm obviously am not voting myself.

That leaves me with:

VOTE: UTL

[Ircher]

POE or sheeping Keyser?

Probably about 75% POE and 25% Sheeping Keyser

[Ircher]

@Axle
I really don't think Golden is scum.

Right now, my lynching order would be Performer-->UTL-->Heat.

I personally think both Performer and UTL are scum, but I don't want to hammer Performer yet, so that's why I'm voting UTL (as I said before, it was about 75% PoE and 25% Sheping, but I think the numbers are more 60% PoE, 30% Sheep, and 10% my own opinion)

[Ircher]

Spoiler: D2 Final Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
1. Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

- In Order
2. Keyser - I have the slightest doubt he may be clever scum trying to outwit us with his intricate explanations.
3. Axle - Not sure what to make of his tunnel on Golden. Nonetheless, doesn't seem opportunistic plus this slot has always been very analytical, so I'm pretty confident here.

Leaning Town

- In Order
4. Droog/RC - PoE read; apparently during the 2 days I was busy, everyone (Axle, Golden) started posting..... Well, my reads have changed some, so I got quite a few PoE reads now.
5. Heat - I've explained my read here so many times... Healthy suspicion of people, opinions don't seem very fabricated, some minor issues with this slot, but no one is perfect.
6. Boon - I disliked his early tunnel on me, but there was *some* meat to his argument; just way over-exaggerated. For the most part, another PoE read.

Neutral

- In Order
7. Pisskop - Combining what I have gathered about his meta (without read a single one of his games), how he behaved D1, and how he behaved at the end of D2. I'm not so confident here anymore.

Let's review:
He begins the game by flaming ai for some reason.
When people start getting annoyed with him and vote him, he self-votes. His explanation for the self-vote? To preserve meta........
Eventually, he starts participating.....
D2 - When RC replaces in, he demands RC to join the Performer wagon
Later, he switches to UTL
When questioned by Golden to explain his change, PK refuses to respond.
Finally, he continues to refuse to explain his change causing massive to hammer performer.

So yeah, I'm not so sure this slot is town anymore. Though, at the same time, his meta (which I have read none of) suggests this is normal behavior......
8. UTL - The shenanigans that happened at the end of D2 lead me to have a neutral read on this slot.

Leaning Scum

9. Golden Robster - Axle has done a very good job explaining here. I'm definitely suspicious of this slot.

Likely Scum

10. Massive - That is *the worst* hammer I have ever seen! What in the world were you thinking? No, I see this as an opportunistic hammer:

Performer is scumread by most players. (Perfect mislynch target)
PK switches wagons (Perfect person to execute mislynch through; by making a lousy demand as an excuse)

If there is one thing I know for certain about Pisskop, it's that he will say what he wants if he wants to when he wants to. It is literally impossible to force him to do otherwise. So, by demanding a "20 min" explanation from PK or "hammer", you have acted very opportunistically.

As you can see, my reads as changed drastically.

The two people I would examine closely are Pisskop and Golden.
I am 95% confident Massive is scum after that ridiculous hammer.


VOTE: Pisskop

[Ircher]

Also, who else is PR. It might not be bad to claim now, as Mafia either keep getting lucky or know who the PR roles are.

[Ircher]

@RC

Pisskop has some questions to answer. Besides, a Massive wagon prob. form too quickly, so better to wait before deciding who to lynch.

[Ircher]

Yes, you still need to answer about why you changed wagons all the sudden.

On the other hand, I know threatening won't work, so please, take your time. Take the entire day if you want.

[Ircher]

Ircher has some good stuff around the actual lynch though.

It doesn't outweigh the NKA on AI being targeted nor the other stuff which is utter crap.

Huh?

[Ircher]

@RC
If PK doesn't answer, then he'll get lynched eventually; simple as that.

[Ircher]

Umm.

Is Ircher trying to scumclaim?

Frequently ?

What????
I know I did it last game (in Sig) during LyLo, but I have done none of that sort this game.

[Ircher]

Ah, I see now. (Wouldn't've called that scumclaiming though).

@RC
There is a really good chance Massive is scum after his ridiculous hammer. But, pushing the person you think is most likely scum is not what I tend to do. Rather, I keep them in mind and go look at other players who look suspicious, so I can increase my confidence in reads. So, in a sense, I like to take the more indirect approach.

In this case, learning Pisskop's reason for changing wagons will also help me determine why pisskop allowed massive to hammer. This will by extension help me guage whether or not Massive was truly being opportunistic in his hammer.

[Ircher]

Smack him around, make him talk. get him lynched if he doesn't.

that's how you play mafai.

It is how you play mafia.

^ Bingo!

[Ircher]

@Massive : Why did you hammer. Don't tell me it's cuz of PK cuz you know quite well that PK wouldn't answer.

[Ircher]

I don't like the way

s

he kept jumping on and off the Raskol wagon.

Not the only thing I dislike tbh.

I'm guessing you are referring to me here? Using the proper pronoun would help.

[Ircher]

am i the only one who feels ircher less than genuine rn

What's wrong now?

[Ircher]

Meh, or perhaps, I'm getting a bit more involved in this game.

[Ircher]

I am thinking, PK.
I want to leave my vote down and watch the game progress.
You will hear more for me when the time comes.

You were thinking yesterday. Youre being a contentless, reactionary player today

*retort* So are you

[Ircher]

I have read all of the game.

I don't like the way she dealt with the Raskol wagon.

I'm happy with the vote atm.

I thought you'd get the hint earlier.... I AM NOT A GIRL.

[Ircher]

Ircher, let's try this.

Why should I believe that you're town?

Becaise I am. Because this is how I play. Because everyone plays differently. Because I'm fairly new to the game still.

Pedit - Nope, no avatar

[Ircher]

tell you what.

if you get an avatar I won't call you she for the rest of the game.

deal?

Maybe later

[Ircher]

Tomorrow we go after massive.

Well, like I said, bring it on. You did a great job at the end of the day yesterday playing for town cred, in a way that has turned out to be WAY more efficient than normal "abandon the town wagon" style, that even had me going "but I still think pisskop is town" overnight. But why couldn't you produce this:

Like are all of you so goddamn stupid you cant read a players readslist and be like 'Oh shit, thats actually really genuine'?

when asked, repeatedly, by multiple players, for an understanding of why you jumped ship?

----

The two people I would examine closely are Pisskop and Golden.
I am 95% confident Massive is scum after that ridiculous hammer.

Well, I guess I better open up your spoiler tab and see what's making you vote for someone other than me, and why that person is the person that is attacking me the heaviest. I guess you think this is all scum theater? If that was the case, I'd probably have asked pisskop to use less swear words since they hurt my feelings.

There is a really good chance Massive is scum after his ridiculous hammer.

You've said this twice. What was ridiculous about the hammer?

In this case, learning Pisskop's reason for changing wagons will also help me determine why pisskop allowed massive to hammer. This will by extension help me guage whether or not Massive was truly being opportunistic in his hammer.

What about pisskop's activity at the end of yesterday "allowed" me to hammer? I had stated my intent to hammer early in the morning when Performer was ALSO at L-1 so what exactly is opportunistic about having waited eight hours to do it?

@Massive : Why did you hammer. Don't tell me it's cuz of PK cuz you know quite well that PK wouldn't answer.

I'm not totally neutral on Performer and would be OK with his lynch. Rask soft-defends him by attacking droog's case on Performer in 610, then also changes his position in their conversation in 780-798, in which Rask also states he knows he's getting lynched, so could be some mutual distancing going on there.

If Performer isn't hammered by the time I leave work, I'll hammer. Not crazy about the insinuation that not voting is somehow scummy.

Had you been here through most the game day yesterday, you might have read either of those two posts.

----

RC, let's talk about UTL / Heat. I still think it's likely only one of them is scum due to this:

Townreading Heat and UTL at this point.

but neither were on Rask, both were on Performer. (I don't know if that's in any way good criteria, because Boon also fits that pattern.) Do you think Rask outs both of his scum partners in a magical townread there?

----

I want either a massive lynch or a UTL lynch today fyi

Any reasons for your vote? Or did you figure that pisskop's shouting would give you enough cover to vote me without me asking about it? pedit (Or Axle which is what he's also referring to.)

Reread what I said about you in the spoiler. Then, keep that in mind while considering Pisskop's general meta and behavior all game. It's highly opportunistic to go hammer someone after not getting a response from a very obstinate player like PK. I want answers from PK first though.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Ircher.

I'm not going for massive. Who am I kidding. I shouldn't second guess my reads.

@RC - I have to do some kind of reaction test. Winkity wink.

................................

This really makes me think that you are determined scum trying to get a mislynch on me. I know I play in a way where I look like somewhat scummy, but rethink your stance for a second. And, also consider that some people just don't follow the site's norm, they play in a way that make the usual guidelines ineffective in determining their alignment.

[Ircher]

@RC - There, I have an avatar

[Ircher]

@Massive -- Cuz it doesn't factor into other people's reads of PK; you did say that you would hammer Pk if he didn't answer the question. I don't care about the time diff as that approach would never work. Plus, your other reasons for voting PK are not clear to me.

[Ircher]

"I play differently than other people on site, that's why I'm so scummy as town" angle you're slinging.

Go ahead and lynch me then. When I flip, maybe all of you will reconsider what I have said this game.

[Ircher]

Vote: UTL

Massive is a fucking moron who I hope chokes on a pretzel, but hes town.

Would you explain this read further?

[Ircher]

well, I'm not scum. You are. I am 100% positive I won't be getting lynched this game. I don't follow the site's norm, so...i'm not basing it off that. It's that you really don't do anything or even really defend yourself besides 'mm...i think you are scum!!!! oh, think again about me being not scum...' yeah....

That's just what you and your freaking tunnel vision.

If you really reconsidered what other people thought about me, you may look at this in a different light. But you and your god-awful tunnel vision doesn't let you see anything except scum in me.

If you have a perspective that is so biased, then you will only see biased results.

[Ircher]

Yeah, good point @Boon - Golden should def. have a read on that slot by now, but that was 100 posts ago.

[Ircher]

do I get to pull "im rc do what I say"?

Absolutely not

[Ircher]

unless im suddenly blind, rob never included me in his reads list

where u at wrt me?

..........
Yeah, and Rob hasn't posted recently.........

UNVOTE: Pisskop
VOTE: Golden Robster

This is the net of Axle's read and the things the posts above me just pointed out.

[Ircher]

Yeah I agree with that tunnel vision. I don't scum read Ircher.

Forgot about this recent post by Rob... doesn't really contribute anything though.

[Ircher]

#Golden Lynch

[Ircher]

Yes, I would like to hear Golden's thoughts as well as Massive and RC's.

[Ircher]

@Mod: It's been a while since you've posted a VC.

[Ircher]

You said, he was dragging his buddy into the spotlight was the reason.
I showed that was not a valid description of the events.

You said the vote made ti so he was dragging his buddy into the spotlight.
That also didnt hold water as reason.

Then you decided it was "gut read", Gut reads are convenient for scum because theres no way to dispute whether or not they are genuine.
THAT does not make them scummy just convenient.

This is factual.

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: Golden
VOTE: RC

Where art thou RC and Droog looks a bit off.....

[Ircher]

@Boon
I don't have a scumread on the slot really, more as to want RC to stop lurking (I know he/she has been on site) and also want to address a few things later.

[Ircher]

Wouldn't Golden be at L-1 if I vote though?

Oh well, guess you're right abourt lurk slots.

UNVOTE:

[Ircher]

Wouldn't Golden be at L-1 if I vote though?

and?

And I don't like L-1 very much, period. I'm reviewing D2.

[Ircher]

Cuz 99% of us don't think you're town.

I am doing my reevaluation of D2. Right now, I still intend to lynch you by deadline, but I don't want anyone to hammer you before I get to finish my analysis.

[Ircher]

Yeah, ok, I need to make sure my facts are straight.

Spoiler: D2 Notes

1. In 871, Dier posts the N1 NK who is AI in this case. The flip was Town JoaT.

2. If it helps anyone, I will remind you that my D1 notes are in 877.

3. Boon lol-votes Performer in 888. -

A bit strange, but I forget Boon's D1 reads aside from myself. -

Null-Scum Indicative

4. 1st NK theory is in 904 by Performer: AI was NK'd because he was on the right track (PK/Heat/UTL)

5. Keyser's D1 Analysis is in 930, 967, 961, 964, 970, 979, and 982

6. My NK theory is in 966.

7. I just realized something!!! - In 948, Droog speculates about N0 actions -

That's actually impossible. Any changes to the Day/Night cycle (prior to Feb 5 change which bans it altogether) MUST be announced by the mod beforehand in normal games! Now, as far as town or scum, I could see it either way.

8. In 1049, Heat has a problem with the two questions I posed to UTL. -

When I asked the first one, I wasn't expecting an answer based on UTL's specific thoughts, I wanted a more general answer. So, I rephrased the question in a way that I got more of the type of answer I was expecting. Not that his answer really changed, but that his answer was more useful the second time. I can see some doubts as expressed by UTL to be acceptable, but Heat trying to paint it as scum trying to gain towncred was over the top and slightly opportunistic. -

Null-Scum Indicative

9. In 1062, Boon demands I just vote Performer. -

As much as I want to say this is scum trying to get players to somewhat quicklynch Performer, I just don't see that coming from Boon. It seems more likely a Boon who is just extremely frustrated with me and Performer and wants the day to end. Yes, I consider this a gut read for the most part despite the fact that I would generally think scum would encourage such behavior. -

Town-Indicative

10. Golden gives a list of scenarios in 1133. -

We can rule out 1 and 4 so we are left with 2 and 3. Imho, 2 sounds more plausible right now, so by Golden"s own words --

Very Scum Indicative

11. We need to reconsider the weight of !1147 and 1148 by Performer. I think we kinda forgot about them, but they could mean a lot. Also, note that Golden was being scumread by Performer at this point....

12. In 1151, Axle believes there are multiple nks. -

WHY???

13. The (still) unexplained vote switch by PK in 1177 -

Normal PK behavior -

Null-Indicative

14. Look, we even have a confession in 1231 that Golden's scum! :p

Not super useful, but yeah, evidence points towards Golden still.
Edit:

Yeah, I'm sticking with Golden....
VOTE: Golden Robster
And yes, I expect Axle to get nk'd next (Axle -- if you are pr, you better claim now... ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE VIG).

[Ircher]

I really don't wanna lynch Golden.

gWhy not???

[Ircher]

Cuz if he gets nk'd and is a pr, then his ability will be wasted like ai and keyser's.

[Ircher]

I have a good feeling he is vig as he stated he strongly believed in multiple nks. The fact we only have had one nk a night rules out sk. So, vig is the only other nk source I can think of.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Axle - If Golden flips town and you aren't nk'd, I'm going to be highly suspect of this slot.

Leaning Town

PK - He's being his usual self.
Boon - Regardless of how wrong he is about me being scum, I can tell he is being genuine at this point.
RC - Barely. I want more here, my townread is based off of Droog; I haven't been very fond of this slot D3.

Null

Neutral

UTL - Starting to townread this slot a bit more, but mainly by PoE.
Heat - Starting to scumread this slot mainly cuz it just no longer seems genuine anymore.
Massive - Technically should put him in the null category as I see this slot as 50/50, but he's posted enough for more than a null read.

Leaning Scum

Likely Scum

GoldenRobster - It just cannot be more obvious at this point.

For future reference -- Null indicates an absense of a read while neutral indicates a weak or mixed read. Null reads would only be present at the beginning of a game by my definition.

[Ircher]

first of all kill =/= roleblock
2nd of all, him claiming only helps scum by telling them where they should kill

no. The only person who should claim is GR

How do you know mafia has a RB?

So far, we have a Mafia Vanilla/Non-Vanilla Cop, A Town JoaT, and a Town Doctor.

[Ircher]

Plus, logically, Axle would be the next nk.

They'd want me alive for sure.
PK's stubborness would be beneficial to them.
And, they wouldn't nk themselves. (Boon, RC, Heat, Rob, Massive)

[Ircher]

Its highly unlikely anything will stop a kill at this point. Both the joat and doctor are dead; another protective role would be unbaanced.

[Ircher]

The way I see it:

If Golden flips Town then Boon is gonna push for my lynch D4 which would lead to a D5 LyLo situation barring extra nk's or other stopping roles.

So, I'm seriously hoping Golden is scum.

[Ircher]

people some people think are scum, but stand no chance of swaying lynch on them soon, or even without nk's removing the opposition. And yeah I think its multiple nks.

@Axle

[Ircher]

Axle, are you claiming vig?
Ircher, are you claiming role cop?

Cuz that be balanced........

[Ircher]

What in blue blazes going on here?

Ok, I'm making a request and I'm making it to Axle, as he is my top townread right now: We need someone to review the interactions with AI; I've thought about it, and I think understanding his views and why he was nk'd will solve the puzzle.

[Ircher]

The key in analyzing AI imo was the fact that he didn't seem the most logical nk. Sure, he was a nuisance and may be a bit difficult to lynch, but imo, there seemed to be way better canidates than AI for the n1 nk (most notably Keyser).

So, as I understand, Axle believes that AI was mainly nk'd cuz scum thought there was a high prob. of him being a PR. It is a reasonable conclusion, and in retrospect, it makes a lot of sense, although I never considered that explanation earlier. (Part of the reason why I asked someone else's opinion on the matter).

Now, at this point, I'm a bit lost (actually a lot). I haven't been following as well with everything (Axle can have...  eh poor grammar a lot which can make it quite difficult sometimes). For the most part, I just feel that this game has too many people who are just goofing off or apathetic rather than actually trying to solve the game. One thing that I know for sure is that not a single one of us has any real idea as to where this game is going (well, that's not strictly the truth, but you get the gist). Most games have some kind of leader by this point, and if I'm not mistaken, Keyser was our leader ('least D2) and he's been nk'd and we have yet to chosen a successor.

Going back to D1, one of Rask's last posts included UTL, Axle, and Droog as the people he wanted lynch. As of right now, none of them have been lynched. Now, I'm delving in to the wifom territory, but let's consider why he wants each of these guys lynched.

If UTL is town: then it seems to me that Ras was taking advantage of the fact that a lot of people scumread him, so in essence, he was going for an easy mislynch on UTL. On the other hand, if UTL is scum, then this is an attempt to distance himself from one of his partners.

We know that for balance purposes, at least one of the people Ras listed has to be town. I'm thinking he most likely included Axle because he knew Axle was town and he knew that Axle was unlikely to be lynched. It was an attempt to cast doubt on a person who few people scumread. It had no point other than to try to make us second-guess each other.

Finally, we have Droog. Overall, I must say that I was pretty satisfied with Droog's play; however, I am rather displeased with RC's play. Nonetheless, I am thinking that RC is more likely town and that RC is following his meta that I prob. won't read. So, this slot is prob. also town.

With that being said, (this is the part that is def. subj. to fallancies), do you think that Ras would've on purposely included only players he knew were town? I think its plausible, as it would be a bit out of the normal flow and ebb of the game. People wouldn't expect it from scum as they would a mixed group.

With that being said, I think I'd prefer lynching Heat before UTL.

Last of all --> What happened to the GR wagon??? RC dismantled almost the entire wagon! If we're going to lynch for info as PK suggested, I would think a Heat flip bit more informative than lynching GR.

UNVOTE: Golden Robster
VOTE: Heat

[Ircher]

I don't know that I would call it "dismantled;" in fact, until you just hopped off here, the only person to unvote was pisskop who wandered off for his vanity vote on RC. Why are you trying to sell it as such?

Yeah, you're right, but didn't notice until after I wrote the post (when the VC was posted). I think I thought people changed votes to UTL from GR.

@Heat
A ton of associative info. But, tbh, I am not quite sure, I'm just pretty sure we'd get more out of your flip VERSUS GR.

[Ircher]

I don't know that I would call it "dismantled;" in fact, until you just hopped off here, the only person to unvote was pisskop who wandered off for his vanity vote on RC. Why are you trying to sell it as such?

Yeah, you're right, but didn't notice until after I wrote the post (when the VC was posted). I think I thought people changed votes to UTL from GR.

@Heat
A ton of associative info. But, tbh, I am not quite sure, I'm just pretty sure we'd get more out of your flip VERSUS GR.

[Ircher]

why don't people blindly sheep me 100% of the time?

Cuz that's stupid.

First, how do we know you're town?
Second, how are we to trust you when you barely even give reasons for your reads?
Finally, why should we blindly follow you when you are just as human as the rest of us?

@Golden & @Heat
Yeah, that basically sums it up.

[Ircher]

I would have preferred ircher answer that question rather than GR but whatever

And why do I give more info than UTL?

You dont -- I never said that -- But, you'll find your answer in that wall I posted.

[Ircher]

With that being said, (this is the part that is def. subj. to fallancies), do you think that Ras would've on purposely included only players he knew were town? I think its plausible, as it would be a bit out of the normal flow and ebb of the game. People wouldn't expect it from scum as they would a mixed group.

With that being said, I think I'd prefer lynching Heat before UTL.

Now, try to figure from the wall why I want to lynch you over UTL.

Also, I'm not the one who suggested an info lynch, pisskop did. I'm just giving my 2-cents if that's what we decide upon.

[Ircher]

I read through and I can trust axle enough based on my reading to vote utl confidently.

Fyi, Axle prefers the Heat/GR lynches first.

[Ircher]

you declared that you are voting me because I give the most info

No, I did not; you are not reading and I will not read for you. The majority of my wall was on this, so you should figure it out.

[Ircher]

compared to the other lynch candidates, at least

That only explains why you over GR; has nothing to do with you over UTL.

[Ircher]

also i hate walls so i only skimmed that lol

And that's why you don't understand my vote. Go look at it in its entirety. I haven't done too many posts like that this game, but you need to read it. Not just skim it.

[Ircher]

I read through and I can trust axle enough based on my reading to vote utl confidently.

Fyi, Axle prefers the Heat/GR lynches first.

GR?

Axle, why is utl better looking than heat?

@PK

[Ircher]

Yeah, kinda.

My gist was that it was very possible that in his wifom, Ras decided to give the names of 3 townies rather than go for the more standard mixed group. Ofc, its wifom, but it's a bet I'm taking and hoping I cash out huge on.

[Ircher]

vote: utl

Now listen here mister! UTL had his wagon D2, it's Heat's turn!

[Ircher]

DANG IT!

[Ircher]

vote: utl

Now listen here mister! UTL had her wagon D2, it's Heat's turn!

EBWOP

[Ircher]

Yeah, I forgot

@PK --

WHY DID YOU SWITCH VOTES ALL OF THE SUDDEN D2 FROM PERFORMER TO UTL? HUH? DO YOU CARE TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF

NOW?

[Ircher]

Bandwagon!
VOTE: Massive

[Ircher]

So, what's the thoughts on the two flips?

And why does scum keep hitting PRs?

[Ircher]

we're lynching ircher today.

Nah, if we are, it'll be in LyLo.

[Ircher]

Is Boon confirmed town?

[Ircher]

...?

I don't think you'd be convincing enough to get a lynch on me right now, but I best shut up.

[Ircher]

So really, Heat, what's your thoughts right now?

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM

Likely Town

Axle - Biggest townread; most analytical of all
Heat - UTL flipped scum. So, by association, Heat would be town.

Leaning Town

Boon - RC's flip gives me a slight townread here.
Pisskop - He seems to be acting his self.

Null

Neutral

Massive - Not sure what to make of this slot

Leaning Scum

Likely Scum

Golden - Should've been yesterday's lynch.

[Ircher]

...?

I don't think you'd be convincing enough to get a lynch on me right now, but I best shut up.

@Axle

[Ircher]

Stop with the stupid videos.

[Ircher]

No, I think RC was another PR snipe, as a result of Boon & RC's interactions at the end of D3. Therefore, by association, i see Boon as likely town.

GR on the other hand seems to be the ideal lynch. Heck, if GR was scum, we could've had a perfect town game if it weren't for the Performer lynch.

[Ircher]

VOTE: GoldenRobster

Massive's more likely town than GR.

[Ircher]

Hmmmmm.......

VOTE: AxleGreaser

[Ircher]

Eh, never mind. I do.

What you mean?

[Ircher]

Let's assume for a moment that once I flip town, the most likely lynch is something like heat.

Lynch GR (flip town) ---> kill axle ----> lynch heat (flip town) ---> kill someone

At this point I want a lynch on boon. Cause I'm pretty sure it's him if it's not heat.

Someone do an ISO analysis of ircher as well.

I should be like confirmed town by this point.

The way I see it:

Lynch GR (Flip Town) --> Kill Axle --> Lynch Heat (flip town) --> Kill Massive/PK --> Lynch Boon --> Town wins regardless.

As long as ya'll don't sidetrack and lynch me, I don't see how town could possibly lose at this point.

[Ircher]

Ah, so Heat PREFERS being lynched over Boon, eh?

[Ircher]

I kno, I'm confident GR will flip scum, but I must be prepared in case he doesn't.

[Ircher]

Yeah, I'm not against a mass claim at this point. Technically, I wanted one yesterday.


Claiming VT.

[Ircher]

UNVOTE: AxleGreaser -- Everyone ignored this for some reason
VOTE: Golden Robster -- He's our lynch today.

[Ircher]

LOOK AT THIS SHIT.

HE WANTS A MASS CLAIM AT THIS POINT SO HE CAN GO FOR THE PR's.

HOW SCUMMY IS THAT SHIT.

And, this seems like a last-ditch effort by scum -- DIE SCUM!

[Ircher]

@PK
RC was NK'd.

We're lynching GR today.

[Ircher]

Yes, you were supposed to get lynched yesterday.

[Ircher]

Can we just lynch GR, these shenanigans are making me think GR is town.... which is bad.

[Ircher]

No, I'm too flexible.

So much so that I get called out on it. This is me saying I'm 92% certain about a read and don't intend to change. Get your facts straight -- Like AI said earlier, I sometimes contradict myself -- why -- Cuz I have flexible reads.

[Ircher]

@PK
Let's lynch GR first. We still have 2 more lynches if GR is town.

[Ircher]

Gimme 5 good reasons why we should lynch Boon before G?

[Ircher]

Gimme 5 good reasons why we should lynch Boon before GR?

EBWOP

[Ircher]

No Hammers Til End of Day

UNVOTE: GR

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
Ircher - Role PM
Boon - Confirmed by PK and RC to be a friendly neighbor. That confirms him as town (ooh --> scum must be hatin' this revelation). Furthermore, simce only 1 scum remains, we can rule out it being a gambit. Finally, we must consider the fact that this game is normal --> PK's confirmation of Boon being Friendly Neighbor means Boon is town.

Likely Town

Pisskop - Meh, it is unlikely he's scum. Furthermore, he has confirmed Boon as town, something that scum definitely wouldn't want. There's no reason scum would even consider that as only 1 remains, so unless the mod is bastard (and mind you this is a normal game), PK cold tech. be considerd conf town for confirming Boon.
AxleGreaser - I just cannot fathom the scum possibility. If he's scum, we're screwed.

Leaning Town

Heat - I get genuine vibes from his posts; aka, doesn't seem fabricated. The association case with Ras further proves his innocence.

Null

Neutral

Massive - V/LA again...... Oh well, want to hear his thoughts before day end

Leaning Scum

Likely Scum

GR - PoE suggests you are scum. With 2 conf. townies (tech. a town player is conf. from their pov), it will be really hard to find someone else who is scum besides GR. It has been a nice battle, GR, but I think it's gameover.

Well, from my perspective, there is a 75% town wins just by random lynching.

Why?

Cuz I'm assuming I'm not being lynched. And, Boon is confirmed town. We have 3 lynches left and only {Massive, Golden, Heat, Axle} left to lynch (rule out PK due to his confirmation of Boon's role --> that'd be very much against scum win con.)

And, its very unlikely Axle is scum, so objectively, I see a 100% town win chance.

[Ircher]

Yes, Axle has said he wanted to post some stuff and I'd really like to hear from massive before a hammer.

[Ircher]

I'll be

V/LA from the 15th of Feb to the 20th of Feb

if that's okay with the mod.

[Ircher]

Meh, GR's scum.

I just wanna here massive first.

Lynch Order; GR --> Massive --> Heat

[Ircher]

@Boon
We got 3 lynches, like you said, we'll prob. end it by tommorrow, but we must be prepared. I want to hear Massive's thoughts then we can end today, ok?

[Ircher]

..... WTH...........

I wanted to hear Massive first....

[Ircher]

Oh well, its twilight....... GR, you better be scum

[Ircher]

Let's make this clear:

WE ARE USING ALL OUR TIME TODAY

Also, it is

3

to lynch

[Ircher]

Right now, huge FOS on Axle.