Mini 1749: Classic Rock Mafia: Game Over!

Dierfire · Post Post #91 (isolation #0) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:02 am

Hello everyone! It's nice to see some familiar names, and nice to see some new friends as well.

VOTE: AlwaysInnocent
I don't like that he took two hours to read the game and still went with a random vote in 60 without commenting on anything that he read.

@MattP

Why in 11 did you ask Dwlee about his vote and not Garmr?

I've mixed feelings on Taly and the Miller claim, but his approach seems sound and I can see clear motivation to read other players in his interactions with Frozen and AlwaysInnocent.

I like Aero's activity level interaction with Garmr and his activity level. I'm still trying to decide whether I trust that enough to also trust his read on Frozen, who thus far hasn't said much of importance and seemed a little off in 34. Specifically the time stamps don't really support her claim to have had something written up when Garmr posted 28.

Dierfire · Post Post #129 (isolation #1) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:18 pm

@Frozen

In post 94, Frozen Angel wrote:
ARE YOU SIRIOUS?

No, I'm Dier.

and whats your definition of importance?

I didn't see much in your posting that would advance the game. Aside from RVS and jokes, there was the vote for MattP in 34 and your questions in 51 (I thought that some were good but none were great). I didn't really understand 67 but you seemed to suggest that your vote was more a test than a legitimate vote, which makes the debate with Taly over what a fast wagon on MattP says about his alignment seem weird to me. I guess that I can see how Aero would read that as Town, though.

In post 96, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 91, Dierfire wrote:seemed a little off in 34.

actually I want explanation about this. Why you think I was a little off in post 34 ?

As I mentioned, you said that you had something written up which you did not post because Garmr beat you to it. I don't know why you wouldn't have posted what you had written even if Garmr had just said something similar. I also don't know why you were ready to vote in 34 if you weren't ready in 29, especially if you already had something similar to 28 and believed in that line of reasoning.

Dierfire · Post Post #130 (isolation #2) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:24 pm

MattP looks fine to me. I don't know why people want to vote for him. Aero is a good bet for Town on his wagon. His points on Iraonavp are good; currently Iraonavp would be my best guess for Mafia on his wagon if he's Town.

Now I have to dive into Taly's posts.

Dierfire · Post Post #131 (isolation #3) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:32 pm

Ah, good, the weird colors and fonts are surprisingly legible.

@Taly

You said that you don't see MattP reaching L-2 so fast if he's Mafia. You also said that there doesn't have to be Mafia players on his wagon if he's Town. I would like to persuade that those two don't actually go together. If he's Town and has only Town players on his wagon, then there's no reason that those same Town players couldn't have voted for a Mafia player. So, if you believe that he would reach L-2 here as Town without any Mafia players on the wagon, then you should also be willing to believe that he'd reach L-2 here as Mafia.

Dierfire · Post Post #133 (isolation #4) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:37 pm

For me it mostly has to do with his activity level and moving votes to help the game move.

Dierfire · Post Post #146 (isolation #5) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:40 pm

I can see your avatar now, where before I could not.

Dierfire · Post Post #233 (isolation #6) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:13 pm

@Aero

Spoiler: Answers

In post 184, Aeronaut wrote:

In post 91, Dierfire wrote:
I like Aero's activity level interaction with Garmr and his activity level. I'm still trying to decide whether I trust that enough to also trust his read on Frozen, who thus far hasn't said much of importance and seemed a little off in 34. Specifically the time stamps don't really support her claim to have had something written up when Garmr posted 28.

What do you mean by our "activity level interaction"? I have no idea what that even implies.

This whole post feels weird and awkward to me.

"Weird and awkward" is my middle name!
The "activity level interaction" is the result of some careless typing. I wanted to say "interaction with Garmr" and, separately, "activity level" (which still seems to have somewhat survived). By activity level, I was referring to you moving your votes around, which I find to be modestly motivated to helping move the game out of RVS. The interaction with Garmr to which I was referring occurs in 23, where you follow him onto Matt's wagon. Again, this seemed helpful in getting us out of RVS.

In post 130, Dierfire wrote:MattP looks fine to me. I don't know why people want to vote for
him
. Aero is a good bet for Town on
his
wagon.
His
points on Iraonavp are good; currently Iraonavp would be my best guess for Mafia on
his
wagon if
he's
Town.

My points on Iraonavp?

No, I was talking about Matt's points (99, 104, 127). All of the underlined are referring to MattP. I'll grant you that the pronoun use could have been clearer, but I'm not sure why you would believe that I meant that Iraonavp was voting for you and you were voting for yourself and I was reading you as Town for that?

In post 133, Dierfire wrote:For me it mostly has to do with his activity level and moving votes to help the game move.

What do you mean? I came on for like an hour, and voted like twice. I voted Garmr for
using emojis
, so what you're saying literally doesn't make sense.

I don't like being buddied.

VOTE: Dier

You can't stop me from reading you as Town! I think that I explained the rest.

Dierfire · Post Post #234 (isolation #7) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:25 pm

@Taly

In post 189, Taly wrote:Do you want a medal? This has been stated in another form. ._. But I already stated I wanted to have more time on the read, but my gut still tells me that Matt is likely town.

Are you offering me a medal?
It's true that I missed 123 by Ironavp which said the same thing, so I'll apologize for the repetition.

@DWL

What is going on in 196? It sort of looks like you were getting ready to vote for Radja.

---

In post 205, MattP wrote:Dierface

Rude!

I guess that MattP's vote on me is fine, though.
I think that I want the ABR-Radja business in a separate post.

Dierfire · Post Post #235 (isolation #8) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:33 pm

Actually I don't think that this needs many words.

UNVOTE: AlwaysInnocent
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

The vote on Mathilda is fine, but if the point was to get a better read on Mathilda, then why remove it before Mathilda returns?

Dierfire · Post Post #239 (isolation #9) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:02 pm

Ha ha, that's why I can't use tabs any more.
Anyway, fine, let's not argue about that.
Let's instead discuss your point that I am not contributing original thoughts.
I thought that my vote on AlwaysInnocent was fairly novel, and I don't recall anyone else pointing out the discrepancies with Frozen's timestamps as I did in 91 and 129. I also think that my most recent vote on ABR is relatively new and I would like to know what you think of my reasoning.

Dierfire · Post Post #245 (isolation #10) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:39 pm

@Dwlee

In post 234, Dierfire wrote:What is going on in 196? It sort of looks like you were getting ready to vote for Radja.

Dierfire · Post Post #282 (isolation #11) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:28 am

@Taly

In post 274, Taly wrote:I don't really see your reasoning on ABR? You didn't really say it...

ABR justified his vote on Mathilda this way:

In post 160, Albert B. Rampage wrote:she is going to come back one day and I can evaluate the quality of her content.

I first thought that this was fine. It's not the way that I play but I guess that it is the way that ABR plays. Then, these:

In post 171, Albert B. Rampage wrote:VOTE: Radja

In post 174, Albert B. Rampage wrote:And why are you voting me for not engaging with the game and not Mathilda who I'm voting for not engaging with the game? Aren't you just hypocritically doing what I'm doing?

If his plan was to to wait for Mathilda to arrive and to pressure her for content, then he's not following the plan by voting for Radja. Did the plan include an OMGUS vote on the first person to question him? Did the plan not include any provisions for being questioned? Has the plan been discarded? I don't like any of those options.

Dierfire · Post Post #366 (isolation #12) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:12 am

@Frozen

In post 285, Frozen Angel wrote:@Dire now ABR is not here so whats your point? he posted after Mathilda show up not acting as he promised before?

I don't understand this question. Are you able to rephrase?

Dierfire · Post Post #403 (isolation #13) » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:18 am

@Taly @Frozen

In post 373, Taly wrote:I see... Did you think there was anything worthy from ABR's vote on Mathilda in the first place?

In post 374, Frozen Angel wrote:Since ABR never posted after Mathilda return , why you think he broke his promise?!

I didn't see a problem with the original vote. Voting for an inactive player with the intent of applying pressure to get content is a reasonable strategy. The problem is that any utility in that move is lost when he switches his vote to Radja before Mathilda comes back. I assume that the ability to create the plan implies the ability to foresee that Mathilda might have a delayed entrance or that someone might question the strategy, and I don't like that the plan derailed in response to those entirely foreseeable circumstances. It makes me think that ABR didn't actually care about Mathilda's content at all.

Dierfire · Post Post #405 (isolation #14) » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:32 am

@Aero

I think that you may have missed this.

In post 239, Dierfire wrote:Let's instead discuss your point that I am not contributing original thoughts.
I thought that my vote on AlwaysInnocent was fairly novel, and I don't recall anyone else pointing out the discrepancies with Frozen's timestamps as I did in 91 and 129. I also think that my most recent vote on ABR is relatively new and I would like to know what you think of my reasoning.

With regard to 382 I can definitely point to certain changes since then. I'll go ahead and provide you with some more recent games:

Town

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=63789
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=63461
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=63068

Those are all games that I played from the beginning. I replace into a fair number of games too if you want to look at those.

Mafia

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=63100
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62214
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=61857

I haven't drawn Mafia in quite a while, so I went ahead and included the most recent game even though I was a replacement (first link).

---
Also, ha ha, does this mean that I'm finally getting my Newbie review from you?

↑ Dierfire wrote:
@Aero

In post 17, Aeronaut wrote:Once the game ends, I'll post a game review for each newbie who played, so you can see all the things I thought you did well or that you could improve on. Obviously, you're pretty new to the site, so don't be afraid to make mistakes; we're all here to learn.

Were you still planning to write these?

Dierfire · Post Post #406 (isolation #15) » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:51 am

In post 401, Lowell wrote:I still don't understand why no one wants to vote iraon, but I could live with either of the two leading wagons as well if it came to it.

I'll consider it. I'd rank the suspicion of those on my wagon as such: Iraonavp > MattP > AlwaysInnocent > Aero

Pending his analysis of my more recent games, Aero is putting enough effort into reading me that I'll continue to read him as Town. He's also sort of committing a mistake commonly associated with Town players that vote for me, which I'm keeping secret for now.
AlwaysInnocent seems new to the game. His interaction with Dwlee about the potential association between us is a pattern of thought that I'd expect from a newer player. I don't really like how many players he's reading as Town in 340 but I can live with it.
MattP should explain his read on me.
Iraonavp should definitely explain his read on me. I don't actually see him type my name anywhere except in the vote for me.

Dierfire · Post Post #430 (isolation #16) » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:37 am

In post 409, Taly wrote:Considering that ABR derped everywhere and still won't be responding to the votes, are you going to do anything else...?

Well, the plan was to actually get something from ABR, but with him potentially absent another 72 hours I should do something more useful with my vote.

VOTE: Iraonavp

Dierfire · Post Post #432 (isolation #17) » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:50 am

@AlwaysInnocent

In post 411, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 406, Dierfire wrote:
AlwaysInnocent seems new to the game. His interaction with Dwlee about the potential association between us is a pattern of thought that I'd expect from a newer player. I don't really like how many players he's reading as Town in 340 but I can live with it.
Why do I seem new to the game? Do you really think that, or are you just saying that in an attempt to disqualify me? Have I not explained that I usually do not guess pre-flip associations, but that I felt confident enough to do it now? If you are scum, it is foolish to dismiss me as a newbie.

You do not like that I am townreading many players. Why not? Assuming that my townreads are (mostly) correct, it is safe to say that scum will not like it, because it leaves them prone to PoE, and they will not be able to do anything about it. The more uncertainty there is in the game, the better it is for scum. The opposite is, of course, better for town.

I do really think that you are new to the game. Am I incorrect? I already know that you're incorrect in voting for me, and I'm sorting between "mistake" and "malice" (I'm leaning to the former).
The logic in the second part of this post is not great. I will explain.
I assume that we have 3 Mafia players. That's standard in a game of this size.
I'm Town (I can almost hear your disbelief).
I'm reading Aero as Town. So, either Dwlee, Mathilda, and ABR are all Mafia, or I'm wrong about Aero, or you're reading at least one Mafia player as Town. Actually, with you moving Aero towards Town in 410, even if I'm wrong about Aero you're reading at least one Mafia player as Town. This is dangerous because you're already displaying a great deal of confirmation bias, so a Mafia player that you're reading as Town is relatively safe.

Dierfire · Post Post #435 (isolation #18) » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:56 am

@Taly

Ira's vote on MattP was poorly supported. His vote on me was not supported at all.

Can you tell me from where Ira's vote on me came?

Dierfire · Post Post #437 (isolation #19) » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:05 am

All right then, let me ask you: why are you looking for Masons in a game that has a Miller? We shouldn't have both a Cop and Masons. Are you thinking that Taly is lying about being a Miller (I assume not as you are reading him as Town)? Are you thinking that we have a Miller without a Cop?

Dierfire · Post Post #438 (isolation #20) » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:09 am

@Taly

In post 435, Dierfire wrote:
@Taly

Ira's vote on MattP was poorly supported. His vote on me was not supported at all.

Can you tell me from where Ira's vote on me came?

Never mind, I see that you're voting for Ira, too.

Dierfire · Post Post #440 (isolation #21) » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:19 am

Anyway:

@Dwlee

Are you standing by your vote on AlwaysInnocent?

@Radja

Are you going to keep your vote on ABR while he's absent?

@Mathida

Who is Mafia?

Dierfire · Post Post #512 (isolation #22) » Thu Dec 31, 2015 7:41 am

@Radja

In post 443, Radja wrote:How are you reading Frozen Angel?

With difficulty! The language issue is throwing me off somewhat. I thought that the reaction to Matt's claim was consistent with her stated inexperience and suspicion of Matt.

Dierfire · Post Post #513 (isolation #23) » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:08 am

Mathilda's 444 seems odd to me because the read on Garmr presupposes that Matt is Mafia. It's also unclear to me whether Mathilda believes Matt's claim, because she's discussing theory but left her vote on. Then Garmr replaces his vote in 446, although he hasn't posted since the claim.

I believe the claim enough that I want MattP to survive the day.

I don't really know what to think about the Dwlee/Firebringer slot. I've only seen Dwlee as Mafia in previous games, and my superficial read of his other games didn't turn up any differentiation between style and alignment. I guess that I'll wait for Firebringer to catch up.

I sort of liked ABR's posts on returning, but reading through them I'm having difficulty deciding why. Something about them suggests motivation to move and solve the game.

Aw, and now Taly is calling Firebringer "Fire" so I'm going to keep thinking that he's talking to me.

Dierfire · Post Post #514 (isolation #24) » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:13 am

In post 504, Taly wrote:@Ira Your last post towards me makes sense now. I had doubts of my scumread on you because your thought process rang as genuine. I wanted you to explain yourself a bit more in depth and the push for wagons is town-motivated.

This doesn't sound genuine to me. There were reasons to vote for Ira, but none of them were answered by 482.

@Taly

What was your reasoning to vote Ira in the first place?

@Ira

In post 481, iraonavp wrote:Also, Direfire, I didn't need to give an explanation for my vote because of how self-explanatory it was. Nobody else even called me out the fact that I voted you without having interacted with or even mentioned you in even the wslightest capacity, either, since you
ere
such obvious scum.

Your vote was wrong, though, and I called you out for voting me without mentioning me! So I would like you to explain your read on me.

Dierfire · Post Post #598 (isolation #25) » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:46 am

@Mathilda

In post 595, Mathilda wrote:So everyone that is currently voting for me, has voted for me, or wants to vote for me, I would like you to hear your defence now rather than later if I get lynched and consequently flip green. Why did you vote in the order that you did? Why exactly are you so sure that I am scum? What exactly is your case against me?

I'm not voting for you currently, but I'm very much considering it, especially because your vote is still on Matt when it's fairly clear that he should not be lynched today.
You expressed suspicion of ABR. Is that enough suspicion for a vote?

Dierfire · Post Post #599 (isolation #26) » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:53 am

I'm not exactly certain what's going on with this supposed slip by Frozen. Could someone refer me to the previous game in question?

Dierfire · Post Post #638 (isolation #27) » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:04 pm

I'm posting briefly to dodge the prod. I lost a day but I will post tomorrow.

Dierfire · Post Post #678 (isolation #28) » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:27 am

Sorry for the delay, I'm here and catching up now!

Dierfire · Post Post #679 (isolation #29) » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:36 am

@Ira

In post 648, iraonavp wrote:Sigh, now you have forced me to actually make a case against Direfire.

Yes, please!

Dierfire · Post Post #681 (isolation #30) » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:42 am

I'm skeptical that Frozen's viewpoint only comes from a Mafia player there. I don't want to lynch her.
I find Mathilda's reaction to her wagon slightly Town-motivated. I would prefer that she do a little more digging into which players are Mafia but I'm comforted by the fact that she wasn't too upset with the prospect of being lynched.
I still like my vote on Iraonavp but after that I'm having difficulty reading people as Mafia. I think that I should revisit some of the inactive players; Firebringer has been quiet and Dwlee didn't stand out as remarkably different from his previous games as Mafia, so that's another good place to look.
Davesaz had a good entrance and I continue to like that slot for an actual Miller.

Dierfire · Post Post #803 (isolation #31) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:08 am

UNVOTE: Iraonavp

I still find Iraonavp suspicious but the deadline approaches and I don't want Mathilda lynched.

VOTE: Firebringer

Dierfire · Post Post #804 (isolation #32) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:10 am

@AJ

In post 699, Aj The Epic wrote:Okay, so I agree with the votes on dier after reading this post.
>Suggest scum Taly.
>Scum reading AlwaysInnocent(I agree, but still)
>Suggesting Aero is town, BUT he only 'trusts his read' on FA and then gives reason that he doesn't trust it.
And while it looks like he trys to call Gamr town, there's a double standard on Matt for prodding Dwlee, not gamr. This suggests he's suspicious of a pairing of matt/Gamr. So we come away with 4 scum reads in varying certainty or actual accusation in one post. Only one easy town read. This guy should DEFINITELY be pressed.

This doesn't look like a correct summary of my 91 at all.

Dierfire · Post Post #805 (isolation #33) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:12 am

In post 702, Firebringer wrote:I have been quiet because of real life stuff, anyways. Whats your thoughts on Aeronaut and IamInnocent?

I still think that AlwaysInnocent is Town. If Firebringer flips Mafia this is especially true because Firebringer forgot his name.

Aeronaut vanished. I've no good read on him.

Dierfire · Post Post #808 (isolation #34) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:31 am

In post 806, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Damn. How obvious can you make it that you and Mathilda are scum buddies?

I'm already reading you as Town, and you don't appear to be considering changing your mind on me, so I'm not exactly certain why you're addressing me.

Dierfire · Post Post #1014 (isolation #35) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:11 pm

@ABR

In post 991, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I think Dave is scum guys.

Why? I was thinking that the Miller claim becomes more believable when a Cop has flipped.

@AJ

AlwaysInnocent is Town, he's just overconfident and misguided (a dangerous combination).

@AlwaysInnocent

You look overconfident and misguided to me (a dangerous combination). I would like you to reconsider your read on me.

VOTE: Firebringer

If Aero is Mafia then why not vote for him?

Dierfire · Post Post #1095 (isolation #36) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:16 pm

In post 1094, Firebringer wrote:ABR looks opportunistic as hell with his vote. He notices a wagon forming on me and decides this is the time to jump on?

Does it still look opportunistic after you read his earlier vote on you? He was the second vote on your wagon, then he removed his vote (by placing it on me) after two others joined, and now it's back on (the fifth vote now that Garmr joined).

Dierfire · Post Post #1098 (isolation #37) » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:30 pm

In post 1096, Firebringer wrote:Thats why it is opportunistic. He saw momentum on you, so he switched to you, then saw that going my way, went my way.

He left a larger wagon for a smaller wagon. That's the opposite of what I would consider the "opportunistic" move.

Dierfire · Post Post #1127 (isolation #38) » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:06 pm

@AlwaysInnocent

In post 1105, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Why are you defending the people voting for you? I know that scum try to appear like they don't care when people vote for them (since heavy reactions are often considered scummy), but damn.

I don't entirely understand the question. Are you asking why I would read as Town a player (in general) that was voting for me? Town players can vote for me. They do it all the time. I noted which votes I felt to come from Town players (Aero, you, MattP) and which I felt to come from Mafia players (Iraonavp). The others came from players about whom I am undecided (ABR, AJ).
Are you asking why I'm reading as Town ABR specifically? I'm not really reading him as Town, but I am reading Firebringer as Mafia and his description of ABR's play looked incorrect to me.

Dierfire · Post Post #1128 (isolation #39) » Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:09 pm

@Firebringer

In post 1122, Firebringer wrote:VOTE: I am Innocent

I don't think that this player is in this game.

Dierfire · Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:43 pm

I don't know. Why would Aero, as Mafia, use that power on MattP, who was going to be hit?
I can think of more to say about that but maybe later would be better.

I still like my vote on Firebringer. I guess that I'm mostly waiting for Frozen to come back.

Dierfire · Post Post #1179 (isolation #41) » Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:00 am

I decline to remove my vote.

Dierfire · Post Post #1266 (isolation #42) » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:02 pm

@AlwaysInnocent

In post 1237, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Dierfire is likely scum.

In post 1238, AlwaysInnocent wrote:VOTE: Dierfire

I would very much like for you to stop this!

Dierfire · Post Post #1267 (isolation #43) » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:04 pm

VOTE: Aj the Epic

I think that Firebringer caught a bus but I want to sort that out later.

Dierfire · Post Post #1342 (isolation #44) » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:49 pm

@ABR

Your thoughts on the game design feel strange to me, especially given your claimed role.

1. If you're Ascetic, do you think that we are likely to have a Miller?

In post 1337, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Gamr's claim was unprompted and not really necessary. Aeronaut is the scum PR.

2. Could you walk me through the role dynamics if Aero and Firebringer (Mafia Motion Detector) are both Mafia? It seems like the Town doesn't have enough power there, especially if the Cop can't get results on the Miller or the Ascetic.

Dierfire · Post Post #1343 (isolation #45) » Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:24 pm

UNVOTE: Aj the Epic
VOTE: ABR

Aero justifiably wants me to stop stalling with this. I don't really see why the game needs a Mafia Ascetic but neither do I see why it needs a Town Ascetic.
If ABR is really a Town Ascetic I would expect him to be more suspicious of the Miller claim.

Dierfire · Post Post #1378 (isolation #46) » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:25 pm

@Davesaz

Unless Aj and AlwaysInnocent are both Mafia, at least one of the players on Firebringer's wagon should have been Mafia. Which one looked most suspicious to you?

Dierfire · Post Post #1392 (isolation #47) » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:15 am

I'm in a holding pattern here.
I can wait for Davesaz's thoughts on the Firebringer wagon but I'm otherwise ready to go.

Dierfire · Post Post #1424 (isolation #48) » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:40 am

In post 1421, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 1420, Frozen Angel wrote:who you bodyguarded Garmr? If its aero then the scum will be in AI - Aj - Dire
I'd say Dierfire.

I had dared to hope that this would stop by now!

Dierfire · Post Post #1434 (isolation #49) » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:44 pm

@AlwaysInnocent

I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

@Frozen

Now that Garmr claimed his result, which player do you think that we should lynch and why?

@Garmr

I feel like we shouldn't lynch the player that cast the hammer vote on both Mafia wagons, but I also feel like we're up far enough that we can afford an incorrect lynch. What's this about the Bulletproof modifier?

Dierfire · Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:17 am

Oh, right, posting in the main thread and such! I'm snowed in without internet access so I'm working off of my phone. I want to read a few interactions again.
I'm not interested in lynching Garmr, Aero, or Davesaz at this time. I can sort of see Garmr's case on Frozen but I have reservations about lynching someone who helped us lynch two Mafia players over AlwaysInnocent. I need to read them both again to decide what I want to do there.
I don't think that I want to vote Aj today based on some interactions between ABR and Radja but I will get to that when I read through again.

Dierfire · Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:30 am

@Aj

Where's your read on AlwaysInnocent right now?

Dierfire · Post Post #1565 (isolation #52) » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:46 pm

None of my neighbor friends are helping me with my reads. We can have the conversation out here if that would be easier.

Dierfire · Post Post #1584 (isolation #53) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:32 am

All right, watch me while I do work!

I'll have more on Frozen when she finishes reading. I've expressed suspicion of her behavior toward the Firebringer and ABR wagons but helping us lynch them both buys her at least one more day. The push against Garmr seems to me to chiefly be OMGUS based on his case against her in the Neighborhood.
Aero still hasn't answered me as to why he believes that AlwaysInnocent is Mafia. I don't know whether it's something besides the obvious. I've decided that the obvious is too obvious and I continue to read him as Town.
Speaking of Aero, his decision to include ABR in the Neighborhood and push him as Ascetic is worth some credit and there's a reasonable chance that the kill was directed at him. I was going to say that this weighs against Frozen being Mafia but it wasn't actually mentioned in the Neighborhood until after the kill failed.
Garmr should not be lynched. Besides the lack of a kill, I caught additional information to support his claim while reading again. In 241 he doubted the existence of a Doctor. As I said before, his claimed role makes him likely to die before LYLO, and I'm comfortable giving him a pass until then.

That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.
For Davesaz, I would think that a Mafia team including an Ascetic would have the Ascetic claim, either as Ascetic or Miller, before anyone else.
For Aj, there's the matter of Radja's interactions with ABR D1.

Neither push on me is especially good.

Hum, actually, I'm going to break this post up a bit.

Dierfire · Post Post #1585 (isolation #54) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:33 am

@Davesaz

In post 1557, davesaz wrote:VCA gives me either Dierfire is scum (evidence being his wagon could not be used to save scum ABR or scum Firebringer) or AlwaysInnocent (evidence being pattern of vote parking Dierfire and being unwilling to abandon that seemingly for any reason). I did that strictly off the official votecounts so there could have been an AI vote change that changed back before the next VC, skimming in this way would not pick that up.

I'm not entirely certain what method is being used for this analysis, but it seems off to me.

In post 1436, davesaz wrote:1077 vc is the tipping point.
Classic Rock Mafia: Votecount #2.44:

Firebringer (3): Dierfire, Davesaz, Frozen Angel
Dierfire (3): AlwaysInnocent, Albert B. Rampage, Aj The Epic
Aeronaut (1): Firebringer
AlwaysInnocent (0):
Albert B. Rampage (0):
iraonavp (0):
Frozen Angel (0):
Aj The Epic (0):
Garmr (0):
Davesaz (0):

Not voting: Garmr, iraonavp, Aeronaut

At this point, what have Garmr and Aeronaut said about Dierfire?
Garmr said nothing, review Aero.
AJ is also a possible
FA dropping and coming back is sketchy but she did not take the opportunity to vote Dier.

I wonder if Dier is also scum? That would explain the lack of an effective counter to FB.

How would that explain the lack of an effective counter to Firebringer? I'm looking at the vote count and thinking that I

was

the opposing wagon to Firebringer. Firebringer trapped himself off of my wagon by reading me as Town, but ABR is on my wagon there and if AlwaysInnocent or Aj is Mafia then it would be a fairly concerted push. So, I'm sort of wondering what your thinking was with this.

Dierfire · Post Post #1586 (isolation #55) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:33 am

Spoiler: Aj

In post 1560, Aj The Epic wrote:There is a higher likelihood of it being Dier. We're ignoring a lot of what happened D1, where he pulled a town read on Aero for nothing at all. In 91 he allows himself a lot of 'to-be' scum reads but oddly not even one of our scum was mentioned. In later days, he's had bullshit moments of sheeping (aka on gamr when gamr was having an issue getting my arguments in order)

I could sort of see you thinking that I was just following Garmr, although you don't seem to wonder why Garmr doesn't believe that. The answer is that I was pushing for your lynch in the Neighborhood. It sort of seems like you forgot that you can ask people to explain their actions. I'm not exactly sure that it makes you Mafia, but it's at least lazy.

In post 1434, Dierfire wrote:@AlwaysInnocent
I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

This feels like a scum claim. The thing with AI is his reads now have picked 1 for 4, and he's been on neither of the inevitable scum lynches. I would definitely expect him to have been on FB's wagon since he had his own vocal displeasure if he was scum just for conformity sake. FB and ABR both were inevitiable in their own ways so not only is Dier making something out of nothing,

What was the end of this sentence?
I do regret losing my patience with AlwaysInnocent but I think that it's a fair question for him--he should really be wondering why his vote is never in the right place if he's Town.

Oddly enough, Dier doubts the fact that ABR's aesthetic could be scum (asking Aero to explain) but votes ABR in the same breath anyways.

That doesn't sound true to me at all. I didn't ask Aero to explain; I offered my explanation of why I was suspected ABR.

In post 1343, Dierfire wrote:UNVOTE: Aj the Epic
VOTE: ABR

Aero justifiably wants me to stop stalling with this. I don't really see why the game needs a Mafia Ascetic but neither do I see why it needs a Town Ascetic.
If ABR is really a Town Ascetic I would expect him to be more suspicious of the Miller claim.

In post 1560, Aj The Epic wrote:The POE in 1378:

In post 1378, Dierfire wrote:
@Davesaz

Unless Aj and AlwaysInnocent are both Mafia, at least one of the players on Firebringer's wagon should have been Mafia. Which one looked most suspicious to you?

Isn't helpful in the least. It's almost asking for an excuse for another sheep vote. there's a much higher chance that Dier is scum over AI.

Again, there's this odd obsession with the idea that I'm just following other people's votes which is not really in evidence. It's possibly an exaggerated response to my initial D2 vote?

In post 1567, Aj The Epic wrote:Appealing to a hood when you're suspect #1 is manipulative. There's no need to try and bar off the game from the conversation right now.

Could you explain whom I would be trying to manipulate and how? It doesn't make much sense to me. I agree that the private conversations aren't especially useful at this time, which is sort of the point of my offer to move the discussion into the main thread.

So I guess that, on balance, being lazy isn't really alignment-indicative (I've been pretty lazy myself over the last few days). I'll vote for Aj because it looks like he went out of his way to scrape things that he could present as suspicious about me.

VOTE: Aj the Epic

Dierfire · Post Post #1590 (isolation #56) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:44 am

@Frozen

Do you have a comment on my vote for Aj or my reads on any of the other players?

@Aj

I seem to remember you scraping cases D1 as well.

Dierfire · Post Post #1591 (isolation #57) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:45 am

In post 804, Dierfire wrote:
@AJ

In post 699, Aj The Epic wrote:Okay, so I agree with the votes on dier after reading this post.
>Suggest scum Taly.
>Scum reading AlwaysInnocent(I agree, but still)
>Suggesting Aero is town, BUT he only 'trusts his read' on FA and then gives reason that he doesn't trust it.
And while it looks like he trys to call Gamr town, there's a double standard on Matt for prodding Dwlee, not gamr. This suggests he's suspicious of a pairing of matt/Gamr. So we come away with 4 scum reads in varying certainty or actual accusation in one post. Only one easy town read. This guy should DEFINITELY be pressed.

This doesn't look like a correct summary of my 91 at all.

Dierfire · Post Post #1594 (isolation #58) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:53 am

@Frozen

Your question is whether being lazy makes Aj Mafia. The answer is that it does not. I pointed out a few cases in which it looked like the lazy thought extended beyond laziness to active misinformation/misinterpretation/misrepresentation.
I read your last post but I'm not exactly certain how you're reading most players. It sounds like you're still reading Garmr as Mafia but have decided to let him pass in agreement with my theory that his role will help us sort him if he's Town. I think that you came away with a Null read on Aj and a Town read on AlwaysInnocent. It is clear that you're reading Aero as Town.

Dierfire · Post Post #1597 (isolation #59) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:55 am

I gave reasons why he would be Mafia, too! Those are the ones that made me vote for him.

Dierfire · Post Post #1598 (isolation #60) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:56 am

@Frozen

I'm not exactly certain what you're saying there.

Dierfire · Post Post #1602 (isolation #61) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:00 am

@AlwaysInnocent

That's not true either!
I'm explicitly reading Aero, Garmr, and you as Town. I'm even leaning Town on Davesaz pending his thoughts on that VCA.

@Frozen

I'm not saying that you can't agree with me about Garmr, no. In fact, I'm pleased that you do agree with me.

Dierfire · Post Post #1605 (isolation #62) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:07 am

I know, I actually considered lynching you solely on the basis that you were advancing the Mafia win condition better than the Mafia were!
The reason I decided against it, and the reason that I'm reading you as Town, is that your absurd show of confidence while being wrong about everything is hard to imagine coming from a Mafia player.

Dierfire · Post Post #1606 (isolation #63) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:09 am

I guess that if Aj is Mafia you did have on brief vote on a Mafia player from 60 to 198.

Dierfire · Post Post #1608 (isolation #64) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:12 am

It doesn't really help me if you always have a Mafia player as your secondary lynch, particularly when you actively refuse to move your vote.

Dierfire · Post Post #1612 (isolation #65) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:20 am

@Aj

You'll forgive me for not following your lead, but you're treating every player other than me as clear, so I'm sort of reluctant to trust your impressions.

Dierfire · Post Post #1615 (isolation #66) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:22 am

Was I unclear that I was reading him as Town?

Dierfire · Post Post #1620 (isolation #67) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:26 am

Oh, I see the problem. I meant to address that comment to AlwaysInnocent. I added that quickly when I tried to post and saw that you'd posted ahead of me.

Dierfire · Post Post #1623 (isolation #68) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:31 am

I was responding to 1609 by AlwaysInnocent. Usually when I'm responding directly to the post right above me in real time I don't specifically address that player by name.
You posted 1610 and 1611 while I was writing my response to AlwaysInnocent, so I went to add his name, but I made a mistake and put Aj in by accident.

Dierfire · Post Post #1628 (isolation #69) » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:39 am

@Aj (for real this time)

That post was for AlwaysInnocent! I've just spent the last part of the previous page explaining this.

Dierfire · Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:42 am

Does that include me? If so, why are you hesitating to vote for me?

Dierfire · Post Post #1637 (isolation #71) » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:14 pm

That doesn't even make sense! If I were Mafia that would make her Town and I would have

better

insight into her behavior, not worse.

Dierfire · Post Post #1694 (isolation #72) » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:27 pm

@Davesaz

In post 1661, davesaz wrote:
In post 1557, davesaz wrote:VCA gives me either Dierfire is scum (evidence being his wagon could not be used to save scum ABR or scum Firebringer) or AlwaysInnocent (evidence being pattern of vote parking Dierfire and being unwilling to abandon that seemingly for any reason). I did that strictly off the official votecounts so there could have been an AI vote change that changed back before the next VC, skimming in this way would not pick that up.

Repeating this read again. If Dierfire isn't scum, then
why didn't scum use his wagon to save ABR
?
I don't see any way that scum let one of themselves go down without a fight, unless the other wagon was also on one of them.

Again, I'm wondering about your reasoning here.

In post 1414, RadiantCowbells wrote:
Classic Rock Mafia:
Votecount #3.57:

Albert B. Rampage (5): Aeronaut, Garmr, Dierfire, Aj The Epic, Frozen Angel
Dierfire (1): AlwaysInnocent
Aeronaut (1): Albert B. Rampage
Aj The Epic (0):
Davesaz (0):
AlwaysInnocent (0):
Frozen Angel (0):
Garmr (0):

Not voting: Davesaz

You're Town, right? There must have been at least four Town players voting for ABR, right? How would the Mafia players have arranged to save ABR in that situation? Why do you think that my wagon should have been particularly attractive to Mafia players? Am I to assume that it was to do with one of the other vote counts (1275, 1325, 1375)? I would really like for you to explain what you mean and how you arrived at your conclusions.

Dierfire · Post Post #1695 (isolation #73) » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:28 pm

If it's a choice between me and AlwaysInnocent I'll move my vote to him because I'll be wrong about his alignment more than 0% of the time, but I'm not excited by the prospect.

Dierfire · Post Post #1696 (isolation #74) » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:29 pm

It's probably a good idea for Frozen to be making the choice anyway.

Dierfire · Post Post #1697 (isolation #75) » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:31 pm

@Frozen

In post 1634, Frozen Angel wrote:I'm kind of scumreading everyone beside Aero ...

In post 1635, Dierfire wrote:Does that include me? If so, why are you hesitating to vote for me?

In post 1658, Frozen Angel wrote:I'm pretty much null on bothe direfier and dave like their purposely making themselves harder to be readed ...

When you get back I would like to hear exactly what your read on me is (I will certainly also ask for your reasons).

Dierfire · Post Post #1699 (isolation #76) » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:35 pm

I think that Aero and Garmr are probably Town.
I think that Davesaz is probably Town but his logic is wrong and it frustrates me because I can't correct the error if he won't show me where it is.
I think that AlwaysInnocent is probably Town but if he's the only lynch that we can get I'll go for it.
I don't know what Frozen is doing and I'm suspicious of the stalling action.
I think that Aj has a reasonable chance to be Mafia.

If we do end up lynching me today my recommendation will be to lynch Aj tomorrow as a matter of housekeeping and then probably Frozen in LYLO.

Dierfire · Post Post #1701 (isolation #77) » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:36 pm

@AlwaysInnocent

Does that mean that you understand his analysis and conclusions? Will you explain it to me?

Dierfire · Post Post #1704 (isolation #78) » Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:40 pm

No, I was talking about to you about Davesaz. This one shouldn't even be a problem on my end, because I referred to myself in the first person and you in the second person, so the third person would have to be Davesaz.

Dierfire · Post Post #1713 (isolation #79) » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:19 am

In post 1709, Aj The Epic wrote:In just over 150 posts, Dier has changed from AI being scum and me being town to me being scum and AI being town. Noticeably when AI lynch is nearly inevitable he's starting to call for it being town, but no sooner. Earlier he pretended to be all worked up here:

In post 1434, Dierfire wrote:I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

In post 1584, Dierfire wrote:That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.

And 2 posts later, no posts outside of his own to see, he votes for me. For a half-ass reason.

It isn't AI. It's Dier.

This isn't true. When did I have AlwaysInnocent as Mafia?
I was clearly reading AlwaysInnocent as Town in 1434. That's the read that I was wondering whether I should reconsider. I thought about lynching him just because his vote pattern was bad (1547, 1584) but I decided against it and continue to read him as Town (1584, 1602, 1605).
I'm assuming that when you try to characterize me as reading you as Town you are referring to these:

In post 1547, Dierfire wrote:I don't think that I want to vote Aj today based on some interactions between ABR and Radja but I will get to that when I read through again.

In post 1584, Dierfire wrote:That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.
For Davesaz, I would think that a Mafia team including an Ascetic would have the Ascetic claim, either as Ascetic or Miller, before anyone else.
For Aj, there's the matter of Radja's interactions with ABR D1.

Neither push on me is especially good.

I read through the interactions and I could see them happening if you were Town, but everyone has something in that column. So I looked at some other things, and particularly your case on me, and I decided that you were not really trying to read me and were trying to mischaracterize my posts in order to get me lynched (more on that in my response to Frozen momentarily).

Dierfire · Post Post #1714 (isolation #80) » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:19 am

@Aj

In post 1713, Dierfire wrote:
In post 1709, Aj The Epic wrote:In just over 150 posts, Dier has changed from AI being scum and me being town to me being scum and AI being town. Noticeably when AI lynch is nearly inevitable he's starting to call for it being town, but no sooner. Earlier he pretended to be all worked up here:

In post 1434, Dierfire wrote:I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

In post 1584, Dierfire wrote:That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.

And 2 posts later, no posts outside of his own to see, he votes for me. For a half-ass reason.

It isn't AI. It's Dier.

This isn't true. When did I have AlwaysInnocent as Mafia?
I was clearly reading AlwaysInnocent as Town in 1434. That's the read that I was wondering whether I should reconsider. I thought about lynching him just because his vote pattern was bad (1547, 1584) but I decided against it and continue to read him as Town (1584, 1602, 1605).
I'm assuming that when you try to characterize me as reading you as Town you are referring to these:

In post 1547, Dierfire wrote:I don't think that I want to vote Aj today based on some interactions between ABR and Radja but I will get to that when I read through again.

In post 1584, Dierfire wrote:That leaves me with Aj and Davesaz, and I have reasons to read them both as Town.
For Davesaz, I would think that a Mafia team including an Ascetic would have the Ascetic claim, either as Ascetic or Miller, before anyone else.
For Aj, there's the matter of Radja's interactions with ABR D1.

Neither push on me is especially good.

I read through the interactions and I could see them happening if you were Town, but everyone has something in that column. So I looked at some other things, and particularly your case on me, and I decided that you were not really trying to read me and were trying to mischaracterize my posts in order to get me lynched (more on that in my response to Frozen momentarily).

Dierfire · Post Post #1715 (isolation #81) » Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:24 am

@Frozen

In post 1706, Frozen Angel wrote:Direfire why you think Aj is scum ?

I sort of feel like you aren't reading what I'm writing. Do you have any specific questions about any of these posts, or were you asking for a summary?

Spoiler: These Posts

In post 1586, Dierfire wrote:

---CUT NESTED SPOILER TAGS---

In post 1560, Aj The Epic wrote:There is a higher likelihood of it being Dier. We're ignoring a lot of what happened D1, where he pulled a town read on Aero for nothing at all. In 91 he allows himself a lot of 'to-be' scum reads but oddly not even one of our scum was mentioned. In later days, he's had bullshit moments of sheeping (aka on gamr when gamr was having an issue getting my arguments in order)

I could sort of see you thinking that I was just following Garmr, although you don't seem to wonder why Garmr doesn't believe that. The answer is that I was pushing for your lynch in the Neighborhood. It sort of seems like you forgot that you can ask people to explain their actions. I'm not exactly sure that it makes you Mafia, but it's at least lazy.

In post 1434, Dierfire wrote:@AlwaysInnocent
I'm just about out of patience with this. Why is your vote always on Town wagons and never on Mafia wagons? Do I need to rethink my read on you?

This feels like a scum claim. The thing with AI is his reads now have picked 1 for 4, and he's been on neither of the inevitable scum lynches. I would definitely expect him to have been on FB's wagon since he had his own vocal displeasure if he was scum just for conformity sake. FB and ABR both were inevitiable in their own ways so not only is Dier making something out of nothing,

What was the end of this sentence?
I do regret losing my patience with AlwaysInnocent but I think that it's a fair question for him--he should really be wondering why his vote is never in the right place if he's Town.

Oddly enough, Dier doubts the fact that ABR's aesthetic could be scum (asking Aero to explain) but votes ABR in the same breath anyways.

That doesn't sound true to me at all. I didn't ask Aero to explain; I offered my explanation of why I was suspected ABR.

In post 1343, Dierfire wrote:UNVOTE: Aj the Epic
VOTE: ABR

Aero justifiably wants me to stop stalling with this. I don't really see why the game needs a Mafia Ascetic but neither do I see why it needs a Town Ascetic.
If ABR is really a Town Ascetic I would expect him to be more suspicious of the Miller claim.

In post 1560, Aj The Epic wrote:The POE in 1378:

In post 1378, Dierfire wrote:
@Davesaz

Unless Aj and AlwaysInnocent are both Mafia, at least one of the players on Firebringer's wagon should have been Mafia. Which one looked most suspicious to you?

Isn't helpful in the least. It's almost asking for an excuse for another sheep vote. there's a much higher chance that Dier is scum over AI.

Again, there's this odd obsession with the idea that I'm just following other people's votes which is not really in evidence. It's possibly an exaggerated response to my initial D2 vote?

In post 1567, Aj The Epic wrote:Appealing to a hood when you're suspect #1 is manipulative. There's no need to try and bar off the game from the conversation right now.

Could you explain whom I would be trying to manipulate and how? It doesn't make much sense to me. I agree that the private conversations aren't especially useful at this time, which is sort of the point of my offer to move the discussion into the main thread.

---CUT NESTED SPOILER TAGS---

So I guess that, on balance, being lazy isn't really alignment-indicative (I've been pretty lazy myself over the last few days). I'll vote for Aj because it looks like he went out of his way to scrape things that he could present as suspicious about me.

VOTE: Aj the Epic

In post 1590, Dierfire wrote:
@Frozen

Do you have a comment on my vote for Aj or my reads on any of the other players?

@Aj

I seem to remember you scraping cases D1 as well.

In post 1591, Dierfire wrote:
In post 804, Dierfire wrote:
@AJ

In post 699, Aj The Epic wrote:Okay, so I agree with the votes on dier after reading this post.
>Suggest scum Taly.
>Scum reading AlwaysInnocent(I agree, but still)
>Suggesting Aero is town, BUT he only 'trusts his read' on FA and then gives reason that he doesn't trust it.
And while it looks like he trys to call Gamr town, there's a double standard on Matt for prodding Dwlee, not gamr. This suggests he's suspicious of a pairing of matt/Gamr. So we come away with 4 scum reads in varying certainty or actual accusation in one post. Only one easy town read. This guy should DEFINITELY be pressed.

This doesn't look like a correct summary of my 91 at all.

In post 1594, Dierfire wrote:
@Frozen

Your question is whether being lazy makes Aj Mafia. The answer is that it does not. I pointed out a few cases in which it looked like the lazy thought extended beyond laziness to active misinformation/misinterpretation/misrepresentation.
I read your last post but I'm not exactly certain how you're reading most players. It sounds like you're still reading Garmr as Mafia but have decided to let him pass in agreement with my theory that his role will help us sort him if he's Town. I think that you came away with a Null read on Aj and a Town read on AlwaysInnocent. It is clear that you're reading Aero as Town.

In post 1597, Dierfire wrote:I gave reasons why he would be Mafia, too! Those are the ones that made me vote for him.

The summary is that Aj consistently mischaracterizes my posts in order to get me lynched.

Dierfire · Post Post #1741 (isolation #82) » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:57 pm

I return.

@Davesaz

In post 1710, davesaz wrote:
In post 1375, RadiantCowbells wrote:
Albert B. Rampage (3): Aeronaut, Garmr, Dierfire
Dierfire (2): AlwaysInnocent, Aj The Epic
Aeronaut (1): Albert B. Rampage
Aj The Epic (0):
Davesaz (0):
AlwaysInnocent (0):
Frozen Angel (0):
Garmr (0):

Not voting: Davesaz, Frozen Angel

When doing VCA the last VC is usually the least important one. This is the one which matters. If Dierfire is town, scum could have tied it at this point and fought harder for that wagon.

This isn't quite correct because the ABR wagon is artificially small at this point--Frozen put him at L-1 and removed her vote at the request of AlwaysInnocent.

Spoiler: Posts

The ABR wagon picked up three votes within 20 posts. Again, the Mafia had

at best

two votes to add to my wagon (if you think that Aj and AlwaysInnocent are both Town). My lynch would have required the vote of an additional Town player. It was beyond their power to lynch me at this point and the risks of obviously shifting the lynch to me while ABR is standing ready to be lynched are obvious. The correct Mafia play there given my Town alignment is to vote for ABR and try to hide until LYLO. I don't need you to accept as given that I'm Town but you should at least not be arguing that the absence of a push for my lynch there is inconsistent with me being Town.

Dierfire · Post Post #1768 (isolation #83) » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:52 am

In post 1764, Garmr wrote:I'm thinking of hammering deir.

I wouldn't be too upset about it.

Dierfire · Post Post #1770 (isolation #84) » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:08 am

I'm Town and lynching me doesn't end the game.
I don't think that lynching me is disastrous for Town either.
I've shared all of my thoughts that I can think of. Is there anything else that you need or want from me at this point?

Dierfire · Post Post #1772 (isolation #85) » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:14 am

In post 1699, Dierfire wrote:If we do end up lynching me today my recommendation will be to lynch Aj tomorrow as a matter of housekeeping and then probably Frozen in LYLO.

Dierfire · Post Post #1773 (isolation #86) » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:20 am

I wouldn't really be upset if we lose because we can't avoid lynching AlwaysInnocent (part of playing Town is being better at it than the Mafia players are) but my best read on him is Town at this point.

Dierfire · Post Post #1975 (isolation #87) » Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:46 pm

Ah, that was fast!
I'm not entirely satisfied with how I performed in this game but I don't know specifically what I'd do differently. I guess that I shouldn't have been so lazy after we lynched ABR, because that seemed to make people want to lynch me. I also probably should have talked through more of my reasoning, but the truth is that I didn't really have a great reason to suspect Firebringer in the first place (I guess that's what might be called a "gut read" and I don't usually do those).

@Mafia

Well played!

@Mod

Thanks for running the game!