Mini Normal 1925: Complete

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Ircher
Of all the people who know what they did, you posted first.

[MarioManiac4]

On the third post, I declared that Mario's post made no sense.

So, I decided to VOTE: Mario and found it to be good.

There are a group of people in this game who know what they did.
Out of all of them, you were the first one in the group to post.
QED

[MarioManiac4]

What's QED?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q.E.D.

[MarioManiac4]

man this game is gonna be so spammy
i like it

[MarioManiac4]

You mean every mafia game?

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Formerfish

[MarioManiac4]

hi

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Robbnva

[MarioManiac4]

Hi firecroc!

[MarioManiac4]

They were both serious.

[MarioManiac4]

Anything but 10 town 3 scum is very rare and almost always advertised in signups.

[MarioManiac4]

Your IC hould teach you that asking questions about the setup is generally bad and indicative of scum.

Please don't listen to this. That is horrible advice. Don't ever be afraid to ask questions.

I do agree with this.

[MarioManiac4]

Why would you regret voting?

[MarioManiac4]

Which is best achieved by using it.

[MarioManiac4]

Ircher is too experienced to actually think I could be scum.

[MarioManiac4]

[quote="In post 168, Robbnva". If somebody legitimately scum reads me and is town, well I don't have them in high regard. [/quote]

[MarioManiac4]

Glad you find humor in the truth. Any game related thoughts?!

Yup

[MarioManiac4]

You're not real. You're an actor.

[MarioManiac4]

DrumBeats looks town.

[MarioManiac4]

"Ircher is too experienced to actually think I could be scum."
"If somebody legitimately scum reads me and is town, well I don't have them in high regard."

"I tried. I've lost hope on this game."

Spot the problem \o/

[MarioManiac4]

"Ircher is too experienced to actually think I could be scum."
"If somebody legitimately scum reads me and is town, well I don't have them in high regard."

"I tried. I've lost hope on this game."

Spot the problem \o/

Honesty is a problem? Since when?

try again!

[MarioManiac4]

I am town

lynch all liars

[MarioManiac4]

lynch all liars

creature is the only one who has lied so far. That I can tell anyways.

I was parodying.
I'll engage here. Why do you think Lynch all Liars is a good idea? Why do you think reaction testing on Page 1 qualifies for it?

[MarioManiac4]

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

MarioManiac4, Ircher, ThinkBig

Candidates For Promotion

DrumBeats, Creature, firecrocer

Watchlist For Meaniness

Zachstralkita, MartinNikolai, Gratiae, Elena Fisher, Wake88

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

Formerfish, Robbnva

[MarioManiac4]

I mean I don't think I need to go any further into Robbnva than to say he is literally saying

he disrespects anyone who scumreads him and scumreads everyone who scumreads him because apparently they should "know better."
And robbnva is the only read I want to push atm.

[MarioManiac4]

Subject: Mini 1812 | Quolls | Endgame

I think we can safely say that confirms Rob's scum.

VOTE: Rob

This is L-1

Oh wait this is where I'm supposed to overreact.

[MarioManiac4]

I mean I don't think I need to go any further into Robbnva than to say he is literally saying

he disrespects anyone who scumreads him and scumreads everyone who scumreads him because apparently they should "know better."
And robbnva is the only read I want to push atm.

to be fair they all deserve to be discredited.

Ah yes the old cardinal sin, scumreading town

[MarioManiac4]

Man I do love me some Mr. bill

That quote was

literally a response from someone calling you scum for saying "sup"

[MarioManiac4]

Man I do love me some Mr. bill

That quote was

literally a response from someone calling you scum for saying "sup"

Thanks captain obvious

Which was the exact same scenario you faced in this game

[MarioManiac4]

Dw Zach, I've got an eye out for you as well.

[MarioManiac4]

Dw Zach, I've got an eye out for you as well.

I've got issues with your list but Talk to me about ircher and Tb. Neither of them have contributed enough to this game to warrant a strong town read. Why are they town.

Ircher is town because he's seeing what I'm seeing the way I'm seeing it. That has happened before when Ircher was town, but I can't remember the last time scum saw what I saw the way I saw it. Maybe it never happened. Or maybe it happened one time on Epicmafia, IDK. The point is, it's rare.
Some players have distinctive styles you can pick up on. TB is town.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Ircher
VOTE: Ircher
VOTE: Ircher
VOTE: Ircher
VOTE: Ircher
VOTE: Ircher
VOTE: Ircher

Die scum die!

why is this a thing

{elena, formerfish, firecrocer}- let's choose one

[MarioManiac4]

why is this a thing

seriously why is it ircher is obvtown

[MarioManiac4]

Why is Ircher scum?

[MarioManiac4]

All that bravado about being obvious townie and it should be obvious is something I do when I actually feel like living is more a Appeal to Emotion. I find people are less likely to lynch me when I do this and guess what it works.

Robbnva, do you feel like this describes your playstyle?

[MarioManiac4]

@Elena -- I had an early strong townread on Mario.

Mario is still a townread; nothing has made me change that, but not quite as strong as in my readslist earlier.

You town read Mario for 2 reasonless votes according to your own read list. That isn't even remotely good enough. Mario's ISO is completely useless and nothing points to town behavior.

[MarioManiac4]

{elena, formerfish, firecrocer}- let's choose one

explain through what computations you arived at this

elena:
i make one jokepost and elena's like "what point does this post serve" and it is disgusting
also she metad me and came to the conclusion that i am more "cocky and aggro" in other games which isn't really true. i feel like if she was actually analyzing my meta, she would realise "hey, these two towngames are different" and notice that my game differs in different towngames because, well, it does. it feels like instead of looking for content for a read, she's looking for something to push

formerfish:
original ircher vote was sickening, iso is generally bad

firecrocer:
328 is so reachy i'm surprised she didn't break her arm while making it

[MarioManiac4]

All that bravado about being obvious townie and it should be obvious is something I do when I actually feel like living is more a Appeal to Emotion. I find people are less likely to lynch me when I do this and guess what it works.

Robbnva, do you feel like this describes your playstyle?

No

Do you really think that everyone who scumreads you is bad at mafia?
If so, have you ever scumread town?

[MarioManiac4]

I read your sig and I'm not sure what to think it makes of your playstyle other than you like being incredibly aggressive. (Anyway, the correct answer is yes, because by your standards, any other answer is a lie and therefore policylynchable.)
Can you see why saying that literally everyone who scumreads you is bad at mafia would make someone scumread you or no?

[MarioManiac4]

That doesn't really work because it makes people less willing to confront you and makes it indefinitely harder to debate anything with you, which leads to you being really hard to lynch.
So you do understand why people would do that. Is there any reason why you think that reasoning is invalid? Like, you're saying you literally are disrespecting anyone who has one wrong read. To be honest that's incredibly bad and I find it far more likely to be a deterrent to arguing than an actual position somebody would hold.

[MarioManiac4]

@Mario I had no idea that was a joke post and I took it as srs. If it's a joke fair enough although I checked out the open game and you seem very dif would you agree or disagree?

my old nemesis one game meta

my play in that game up to now is remarkably more similar to this game than this one actually, i voted delta without giving reasoning until i felt like giving it which is basically what i'm doing here.

[MarioManiac4]

i fundamentally disagree with the concept that scum will always be agreeable if it was that simple town would win a lot more games

[MarioManiac4]

firecrocer:
328 is so reachy i'm surprised she didn't break her arm while making it

Not reachy at all, very clear actually.
Ircher townreading you off of a vote of someone who just voted for him when all Former's previous posts have been NAI

That's incorrect; Formerfish's previous posts weren't NAI, they were scummy. Even if you think they were NAI, you have to understand that

it may have been scummy from someone else's perspective.

[MarioManiac4]

Well as a bad player my opinions don't count anyway \o/

[MarioManiac4]

In the beginning, there was a VOTE: Creature.
And I found it to be good.

On the second post, I declared that to VOTE: ThinkBig was better.

On the third post, I declared that Mario's post made no sense.

So, I decided to VOTE: Mario and found it to be good.

On the fourth post, I questioned ThinkBig's intentions and decided to VOTE: ThinkBig.

This I found to be good.

Nice vote hopping

VOTE: Ircher

Trying to muddy the waters here or what?

This is a terrible vote because it's accusing someone of "muddying the waters" because they votehopped on Page 1.

[MarioManiac4]

In the beginning, there was a VOTE: Creature.
And I found it to be good.

On the second post, I declared that to VOTE: ThinkBig was better.

On the third post, I declared that Mario's post made no sense.

So, I decided to VOTE: Mario and found it to be good.

On the fourth post, I questioned ThinkBig's intentions and decided to VOTE: ThinkBig.

This I found to be good.

Nice vote hopping

VOTE: Ircher

Trying to muddy the waters here or what?

This is a terrible vote because it's accusing someone of "muddying the waters" because they votehopped on Page 1.

(Of course, this could apply to TB and firecroc as well. However, other things TB has done counteract this, and he generally has a penchant for oddish behaviour; the last game I played with him, he hammered a player and then pinned it on me, and then flipped as town. I am also scumreading Firecroc, but on this matter I allow her more leniency, since if she's town this is her first towngame on-site.)

[MarioManiac4]

hey ircher, wanna wagon firecroc?

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: firecrocer

[MarioManiac4]

I don't think I've ever read Ircher incorrectly based on play.

glares at mini 1908

[MarioManiac4]

Ircher's reads are good.
Really, really good.

[MarioManiac4]

Oh shit I forgot about that.
Still though lynching Ircher is a bad idea. If you lynch him a council of people not on the wagon shall decide tomorrow's lynch

[MarioManiac4]

It's possible, I suppose. But very unlikely considering the general state of the game. Also everything in his reads and most of his other posts screams town and I don't see it coming from scum. Last game I played Ircher was scum and his stances were questionable/reachy (although his fakeclaiming skills are NOT to be underestimated EVER >.>)

pedit: well not especially it's more contingent of what she's discussed about me
generally it's easier for me to get accurate reads from ppl talking about me because i know exactly what's going on there

[MarioManiac4]

[MarioManiac4]

Oh shit people disagree with me so I'm playing antitown ;-;

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: ircher

I got you a gift
It's bound to give you a lift
It is really dope
Yes it is made of rope
Best of all it was free
Just took it off that tree
The circle on the end is round
It's designed for the scum I've found
A little pull and and your neck gets cinched
And the end of today you will be lynched.

Ah yes posting non-strictly game related content is absolutely anti-town. You got me there Robbnva.

[MarioManiac4]

So, Robb, who is the half of players you can trust and the other half who have done you wrong? And why?

You're behind.

Right now I'm back to not trusting anyone but myself. I had unrealistic expectations in thinking we could work together but I haven't seen anyone really willing to do so.

Are you TwoFace?

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: ircher

I got you a gift
It's bound to give you a lift
It is really dope
Yes it is made of rope
Best of all it was free
Just took it off that tree
The circle on the end is round
It's designed for the scum I've found
A little pull and and your neck gets cinched
And the end of today you will be lynched.

Ah yes posting non-strictly game related content is absolutely anti-town. You got me there Robbnva.

That was an ode to the poet. Plus that's totally game related.

Ode to poet yada yada same thing.
If making a poem encouraging the Ircher wagon is game-related, then so is posting a picture encouraging the firecroc wagon.

pedit: Tbh you two are remarkably similar if you're not the same person. I'm sure you'll cross paths eventually.

[MarioManiac4]

ok i checked elena's reasons for scumreading me again
1. i have done things this game and had at that point- you definitely have not done more than me
2. firecrocer asked for my reads
3. one-game meta lol

i could vote thinkbig because his play has been scummy and i dont really want to let meta excuse that

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: thinkbig
his ircher read or more so the way he handles it is terrible and the wagon composition is good

[MarioManiac4]

if vig shoots drumbeats i give up on life forever

[MarioManiac4]

why do i play mafia

[MarioManiac4]

robb vs drumbeats is TvT like 99.9% of the time

[MarioManiac4]

Nice readslist
Why is ircher scum again

[MarioManiac4]

because at night I dream of ever being as disgustingly blatant obvtown as Ircher is being this game

[MarioManiac4]

why do i play mafia

Not really sure. I think you like the social aspect of it, but you don't really take it serious and as a result don't try to scum hunt. You rely more on gut and ignore evidence that is contrary to your gut.

I mean I do scumhunt

[MarioManiac4]

your reason for scumreading ircher is "his iso reeks"
your point is invalid

[MarioManiac4]

why do i play mafia

Not really sure. I think you like the social aspect of it, but you don't really take it serious and as a result don't try to scum hunt. You rely more on gut and ignore evidence that is contrary to your gut.

Hopefully you find me to be an enjoyable player to play

tb i thought we could be friends </3

[MarioManiac4]

why do i play mafia

Not really sure. I think you like the social aspect of it, but you don't really take it serious and as a result don't try to scum hunt. You rely more on gut and ignore evidence that is contrary to your gut.

I mean I do scumhunt

Good to know. Can you start doing some?

I have done

[MarioManiac4]

UNVOTE:
the thing is tb is actually not scum here and im currently ignoring that because he's attacking my townreads and i need to stop doing that

[MarioManiac4]

i found;
you dislike him turning around on you
you think he had a scumpost
you think he doesnt have enough bite

if you cant see it you cant see it i guess might towncase ircher at some point maybe i don't really like casing

pedit: I know you're being serious. I'm also being serious. I have done scumhunting.

[MarioManiac4]

he is talking extremely freely
his reads fit pocketed town
meta
he doesnt really have an agenda

[MarioManiac4]

it's been over 100 pages it is not impossible that he couldve changed his mind

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Formerfish



What u thinking Mario

VOTE: Formerfish
^this is a good wagon!

[MarioManiac4]

im just gonna sit here watching ircher flip town

[MarioManiac4]

ah yes ofc
i dont see anyone but ircher getting lynched here tho ill try zzzzzzzz

[MarioManiac4]

ircher is town aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[MarioManiac4]

everything he is saying is fucking on point this game and its like so genuine
why is ircher getting lynched

[MarioManiac4]

everything he is saying is fucking on point this game and its like so genuine
why is ircher getting lynched

If you care so much do what I requested. I disagree with his reads though. You haven't scum hunted. Drum isn't mislynch bait. TB is null. Elena is also.

ok then
why the FUCK is ircher the only significant wagon if he's scum here
also why is he so onpoint

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Formerfish

I got my eye on you.

Don't anyone dare assume Creature is auto-town for this if I'm lynched.

WHY THE FUCK DOES IRCHER DO ANYTHING HE IS DOING OR HAS DONE AS SCUM WTF

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Formerfish

^ Good vote.

[MarioManiac4]

wait are we back to the days of "asking about the setup is a scumtell" zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[MarioManiac4]

ok good
i scumread firecrocer and could do that but grat is entirely null for now

pedit: gratiae and firecrocer have exactly the same experience, both are newbies (except firecroc has a scumgame and grat has a towngame if that makes a difference but i dont think you were referring to that \o/)

[MarioManiac4]

pocketing is probably the wrong word for it idk
your reads feel like reads ppl who were genuinely pushing the ircher wagon would have tho

[MarioManiac4]

it's much more likely that scum are sneaking onto the ircher wagon than pushing him

[MarioManiac4]

literally everything ircher is doing is coming from a town perspective
the reasoning he gives is followable and accurate
thinkbig was like 3 votes scattered on a player because they wouldn't give reasoning for tunnelling a player it was barely even a wagon let alone a lynch threat
formerfish was a struggle and is town-motivated
so there was no real counterwagon
the way robb and tb did the tunnel dance and the wagon somehow got to l1 is pretty horrible too

@firecrocer; why is drumbeats scum

[MarioManiac4]

softclaiming vengeful makes no sense for scum to do and i have yet to see any argument for why this is scum-motivated or indeed any convincing argument as to why ircher is scum at all

[MarioManiac4]

a) that was when the player was under a LOT more threat than ircher
b) EWWWWWWW one-game meta
c) the fact that scum once fakeclaimed vengeful doesn't mean that any softing vengeful is necessarily scum-motivated!

[MarioManiac4]

literally everything ircher is doing is coming from a town perspective

not really. I just provided one example that by itself is lynch worthy

no, you said "he softed a pr" and that isn't lynchworthy
at all

[MarioManiac4]

i have yet to see any argument for why this is scum-motivated or indeed any convincing argument as to why ircher is scum at all

fearmongering is scum motivated. Town doesn't have to use fear to get people to back off their wagon.

already said this so if you both claim you haven't see anything, I suggest you read the game

what if ircher

wasn't fearmonging

[MarioManiac4]

what if ircher
wasn't fearmonging

yeah what if he wasn't. but unfortunately he was in my opinion.

like what happened was
1) ircher said "if you hammer me you'll regret it"
2) tb said "OMG are you softclaiming vengeful"
3) ircher said "ok maybe"
he didn't really try to softclaim a pr but he was directly asked
there is clear town motivation for doing this such as drawing the nightkill instead of the lynch

[MarioManiac4]

because it changes nothing.

[MarioManiac4]

Wagon me to L-1 and you die.

This alone is fearmongering.

what do townies have to fear from that

[MarioManiac4]

like i see a lot of claiming "omg fearmonging" but absolutely no explanation of why it was scum-motivated

[MarioManiac4]

why would a townie try to policy lynch someone over a reaction test? I don't think a townie would.
See, I can name things that don't really make sense to me but aren't always scum motivated too

it's able to serve as many things
a) making scum think he's a pr
b) intention to vote people who wagon him to l-1 because he thinks that will be scumhunted (and yes the people who sneak onto the wagon are scummy)
or maybe it wasn't a fully thought through action. like, this is not nearly conclusive evidence for your point.

[MarioManiac4]

like i see a lot of claiming "omg fearmonging" but absolutely no explanation of why it was scum-motivated

I already did that. learn to read please before you say you saw no explanation.

you said fearmongering is scum-motivated
that's "omg fearmonging" it's not a direct explanation of why his actions are scummy

[MarioManiac4]

like you want to talk about ircher's townread on me
because it isn't alignment indicative to townread someone for thinking the same way you do w/scumhunting
because scum's perspective is inherently crooked on that regard
also drumbeats literally explicitly agreed with him on that point unless you're arguing that two scum decided to go and do the exactly same thing because your point couldn't be wrong then that's pretty telling

[MarioManiac4]

Aaarghh UNVOTE: ircher

Looking back i lean to believe now that ircher is probably town, though he was acting scummy by putting pressure and pointing fingers to others without a solid or valid explanation.
Let's say that the major sign that made me unvote is his narrative he did at the beginning.

Putting pressure on people is pivotal in the game. Why do you think that you not thinking he had a solid and valid explanation makes him scum? In that case, why don't you think I'm scum because I pressured people earlier without giving explicit reasoning?

[MarioManiac4]

i have given reasons
also, his posting at l-1 was far more oriented to helping town beyond his flip (talking about/explaining reads, telling people not to conftown creature which would be like the weirdest and most pointless for scum for do ever) than scum trying to escape lynching

pedit: oh yes i definitely know that uhhhhh (rereads newbie 1801)

[MarioManiac4]

ok i think i get it maybe

[MarioManiac4]

really i think due to momentum the chances of a d1 ircher lynch are very very low right now

[MarioManiac4]

[MarioManiac4]

tb; i'm not going to derail a non-existent wagon, i'm not going to defend against non-existent points. you're town, so do better

[MarioManiac4]

@Robbnva (numbers correspond to the order of points he made)
1. Why? Ircher looked fine.
2. Why? Meta-ing someone is a perfectly good reason for doing a 180 on someone, ESPECIALLY early on. Like, if you do scummy shit, I will vote you. If I later find out you do the same scummy shit as town, I will unvote you, because my points were wrong. This makes no sense as a point. (Also, 180s as a scumtell are MASSIVELY overrated. I have coasted to numerous scum wins by voteparking and voteparking is the easiest route to take. In the meantime, I have done many, many 180s as town.)
3. That isn't scummy at all.
4. Wait. What? You're arguing that when people jump on a wagon you created, you're being opportunistic? if that's what you're doing. If not, then please elaborate.
5. Why does Ircher look bad for that? Ircher's scumread of Firecrocer was the strongest. I specifically suggested her out of my scumpool with that in mind.
6. Here, Ircher had no chance of getting Firecroc lynch. Voting Formerfish was the only viable way to avoid rope.
7. I've discussed why this isn't true.
8. Funny, I see quite a bit of it.

[MarioManiac4]

From what I can tell Robb is the type of player who sees things in a very black and white playstyle if something looks bad he'll say it's bad no remorse and just vote it instead of looking for the reason behind it so try explaining it to him another way Zach

that isn't true at all. I am looking at reasons. i have asked ANYONE WHO IS TOWN READING IRCHER TO PROVIDE ME SOME FUCKING REASONS

and know what?

NOBODY IS WILLING TO PROVIDE FUCKING REASONS.


so don't say I am not looking at reasons when nobody is even giving me any to look at.

I have provided reasons. You keep complaining about people "not giving reasons for ircher being town" even though people HAVE done this. And even if this ISN'T true, we don't NEED to provide points why Ircher is scum; if we are able to disprove yours, that means he shouldn't be lynched.

[MarioManiac4]

Like, Robbnva's case is a pile of saying "this looks bad"
That's not the point. That's not a reason. In order to make a convincing case, you have to explain why his actions were scum-motivated. You're basically just being hypocritical here. Except that's it's not even that, you're telling us we're doing something we aren't, except that you're doing that yourself. Is there a word for that? idk

[MarioManiac4]

1. it isn't terrible to push on someone because they literally asked for a policy lynch for a reaction test on Page 1
2. This sounds less like actual reasoning and more like you disliking meta and saying it is an invalid reason to read anyone because of that.
3. No it wasn't. He even gave reasoning for his vote later. Voting the same person as someone =/= sheeping someone.
4. Again. How is that sheeping Zach? And voting someone with 1 vote isn't opportunistic. To be frank saying that because it's popular now his vote then was opportunistic is completely nonsensical.
5. It's not blind sheeping. It's working with me on a scumread we agreed on. He had even previously given his reasoning for having firecrocer as his number 1 scumread. Voting on a heavy scumread already established is not blind sheeping in any way.
6. Deadline =/= momentum on a lynch. Ircher lynch had heavy momentum and it looked like he was getting lynched until firecroc/grat swung away. Even so, there's no point vanity wagoning if you can pressure another scumread with a wagon.
7. Saying it's a bad reaction isn't even a point anyway. It's an opinion. And it's not getting Ircher lynched ever.
8. It is though. I mean, considering you said I wasn't scumhunting when I know I was, I'm not inclined to trust your judgement on this issue

[MarioManiac4]

Not especially, no. (assuming that's directed at me as I was the most recent poster)
There hasn't been sufficient time to disallow the possibility that scum didn't want to intent so soon. (Also a possibility that all scum are tied up between voting the wagons and defending the wagons and don't really have room to hammer)

[MarioManiac4]

So you just disagree with his behaviour. How does this make him scum again?

[MarioManiac4]

like the fact you pushed so hard on a point and just admitted it was nai should tell you something about the quality of your push.

[MarioManiac4]

do you recall seeing a scum doing it in the manner he did it?

[MarioManiac4]

yes, I have seen scum soft claim PR while getting run up.

so what you're saying is that you've never seen town softclaim PR while being run up

[MarioManiac4]

yes, I have seen scum soft claim PR while getting run up.

so what you're saying is that you've never seen town softclaim PR while being run up

soft claim a PR sure. fake soft claim one to draw a NK? I don't think so. It's possible I guess, but between all my accounts I have probably played over 150 games

i mean it's possible that he would softclaim one with other reasons but ircher has stated he wasnt doing that i believe so this is a pretty pointless discussion \o/

[MarioManiac4]

i mean it's possible that he would softclaim one with other reasons but ircher has stated he wasnt doing that i believe so this is a pretty pointless discussion \o/

well you have pretty much sided with him since the jump when you voted the person who voted him. I don't even think you would vote ircher even if somebody claimed a cop with a guilty on him.

people say talking to me is like a brick wall, but you choose to ignore anything that is negative about him. If anyone is guilty of being a brick wall, it is definitely you.

that's because ircher is town, there are no good arguments against him, and he got to l-1 based on no case \o/
i mean, you're the one who said ircher is scum for using meta which is completely pulled out of your ass

[MarioManiac4]

no really

[MarioManiac4]

it's likely that tb legitimately thought ircher was softing vengeful and then pushed on him for that

[MarioManiac4]

hhahahhahahahahhahaaaaaaaaa

[MarioManiac4]

tb seems to be the upcoming topic the issue is that he's town here like 99% of the time
i have no idea what he is doing though so maybe something should happen
or maybe we could get a flip idk

[MarioManiac4]

there are reasons for former
and it's not about the number of reasons it's about the quality
although ircher isn't really a viable lynch right now so \o/

[MarioManiac4]

formerfish's posts are generally unimpressive, aren't natural in that he fakes an aura of confidence, and generally are not designed to make an impact
yes his vote on ircher is shit but that's not the only reason why he's scum

[MarioManiac4]

also the wagon composition is the best since the firecrocer wagon that only had me and ircher

[MarioManiac4]

wrong on all four points

[MarioManiac4]

obvtown like MM4

you are joking right? he isn't obvtown

i'm always obvtown

[MarioManiac4]

town always loses

[MarioManiac4]

i mean it's a mini normal

of course

town is going to lose

[MarioManiac4]

even I can win mini normal scumgames

[MarioManiac4]

even I can win mini normal scumgames

what dunnstral am i not supposed to vote you

[MarioManiac4]

that is somewhere between the third and millionth use of one-game meta in this game

[MarioManiac4]

so you wouldn't expect me to be voting you without reading the game because ?????open690??????? idgi
by reading parts of the game, you should be able to get reads?

pedit: i dont hate meta i do hate one-game meta though

[MarioManiac4]

But you're comparing me to KAT not my other games
(which are all like two years ago i believe )

[MarioManiac4]

Why is it bad for me to compare you to KAT?

because
a) you don't know how i would play differently to KAT as scum
b) i could just be town playing in a different gamestate- if consistent behaviour is displayed over the course of multiple games as either alignment than yes that is a metatell but i think i could link you to multiple town games that were nothing like KAT

[MarioManiac4]

so you wouldn't expect me to be voting you without reading the game because ?????open690???????

What? You were voting my slot before I replaced in
Don't go looney on me, I wasn't implying that


I know I played at least 1 game with you on the fallout shelter

ok so you weren't actually comparing me to that you were doing the 3 games we've played together :shrug:
i don't really see why i couldn't vote your slot according to those games then, i think all i did was moonlogic all game and then sheep dead town at the end?
also im always looney get used to it

[MarioManiac4]

formerfish's posts are generally unimpressive, aren't natural in that he fakes an aura of confidence, and generally are not designed to make an impact
yes his vote on ircher is shit but that's not the only reason why he's scum

also the wagon composition is the best since the firecrocer wagon that only had me and ircher

[MarioManiac4]

so you wouldn't expect me to be voting you without reading the game because ?????open690???????

What? You were voting my slot before I replaced in
Don't go looney on me, I wasn't implying that


I know I played at least 1 game with you on the fallout shelter

ok so you weren't actually comparing me to that you were doing the 3 games we've played together :shrug:
i don't really see why i couldn't vote your slot according to those games then, i think all i did was moonlogic all game and then sheep dead town at the end?
also im always looney get used to it

I mean you voted me in KTAS for no reason and then unvoted and did... idk but you were also a vig

that was like for one day and mostly for rl things it's inconsequential
for what it's worth i heavily voteparked for all of d1

[MarioManiac4]

yes his vote on ircher is shit but that's not the only reason why he's scum

And what's wrong with his vote on Ircher?

What are your thoughts on Ircher?

when I refer to his vote on Ircher I mean his first vote on Ircher which was incredibly reachy and was waaaaay overconfident
Ircher is my strongest townread

pedit: But there's no reason to fake it. It's just like "OH HEY IRCHER LOL. YOU VOTED 4 PEOPLE ON PAGE 1? HAHAHAHA SCUM CAUGHT GG NO RE."

[MarioManiac4]

[]On the sixth post, I VOTE: Former.

I found it to be very good indeed.[/i]

So what is it, you're acting too scummy to be scum trying to see who will push you first? Vote hopping trying to hit the whole player list? I'm your 5th vote in 3 pages, we appear to have an actual game to play now, care to play with us?

^This post, for example.
It's acting really over-confident. It's putting things in Ircher's mouth, acting like he is confirmed scum- "So what is it, you're acting too scummy to be scum trying to see who will push you first? Vote hopping trying to hit the whole player list?" There is a load of overconfidence in that quote. It's almost mockery in the way it's toned. And all of it sounds fake.
Yet it doesn't have an impact at all. It's an empty post. All it says is "you should give reasoning" and if that isn't unimpactful I don't know what is.

[MarioManiac4]

Dunn I have limited time but my ISO should show why Ircher is my tr

[MarioManiac4]

Mario's votes outside his rvs vote on ircher

1. Chainsaw defended ircher
2. Votes me for no reason
3. Does nothing of value until he votes fire. No reason given
4. Votes TB for his bad read on ircher aka another chainsaw defense
5. Votes former for... oh wait no reason given. Just sheeps zach

if this case convinces anyone I will slam my head into a desk

[MarioManiac4]

[]On the sixth post, I VOTE: Former.

I found it to be very good indeed.[/i]

So what is it, you're acting too scummy to be scum trying to see who will push you first? Vote hopping trying to hit the whole player list? I'm your 5th vote in 3 pages, we appear to have an actual game to play now, care to play with us?

^This post, for example.
It's acting really over-confident. It's putting things in Ircher's mouth, acting like he is confirmed scum- "So what is it, you're acting too scummy to be scum trying to see who will push you first? Vote hopping trying to hit the whole player list?" There is a load of overconfidence in that quote. It's almost mockery in the way it's toned. And all of it sounds fake.
Yet it doesn't have an impact at all. It's an empty post. All it says is "you should give reasoning" and if that isn't unimpactful I don't know what is.

I read it differently. It looks like he's questioning Ircher here. As evidence I'd like to bring the question marks to attention.
Really, realize that you thinking he's overconfident is an

opinion.

It

might

be true, but in general I don't see this question as an "overconfident" question. Especially that last bit "care to play with us?" that really dispels the confidence theory for me.

Is it really questioning though? Like, all it says is, "Oh, so what is it? X? X?" and then with the really strange/fake snarky "care to play with us?" Like, there is no reason to be snarky at that point at all. It's literally page 3. All it looks like is an attempt to fake a town mindset.

It's putting things in Ircher's mouth

Is this a scum tell you've used as town before? Can you link me? Has it worked out?

I originally misread the post as basically saying that Ircher was scum, I don't think he's exactly putting things in Ircher's mouth reading through it again; I still think the post as a whole is gross though.

It's almost mockery in the way it's toned.

Same thing. Can you link to a game where scum mocks town within the first few pages?

Have you used this as a scum tell before?

offer extended

1. You're taking this out of context. The point is, the tone is completely faked, and the mockery is completely out of place.
2. am i really going to have to go through loads of links to see things and go through my game history to see if i made a similar point before this game

[MarioManiac4]

[]On the sixth post, I VOTE: Former.

I found it to be very good indeed.[/i]

So what is it, you're acting too scummy to be scum trying to see who will push you first? Vote hopping trying to hit the whole player list? I'm your 5th vote in 3 pages, we appear to have an actual game to play now, care to play with us?

^This post, for example.
It's acting really over-confident.

It's putting things in Ircher's mouth

,

acting like he is confirmed scum

- "So what is it, you're acting too scummy to be scum trying to see who will push you first? Vote hopping trying to hit the whole player list?" There is a load of overconfidence in that quote. It's almost mockery in the way it's toned. And all of it sounds fake.
Yet it doesn't have an impact at all. It's an empty post. All it says is "you should give reasoning" and if that isn't unimpactful I don't know what is.

Why is the bolded scummy from Formerfish, but not from ThinkBig about the softclaim?

Why is the underlined scummy from Formerfish, but not from ThinkBig about his scum/scum dichotomy for Zach?

context

[MarioManiac4]

well first off i actually misinterpreted former's post he didn't actually call ircher confscum thought i should clear that up altho i know that isnt what you're debating

the way tb did it wasn't as scummy because he didn't act like zach was confirmed scum he upfront said that he thought zach was scum to me that just seems to be a brief moment of thinking zach is scum

the thing is your case isnt even bad at all lol thinkbig not giving any reasoning looks sketchy af but there's no way he talks this freely as scum \o/

[MarioManiac4]

also someday robbnva needs to learn that if you have already given reasoning for a read you are not legally required to say it again whenever you vote

[MarioManiac4]

you know what I'll just let TB defend himself if he's town (which he probably is \o/) because I don't know enough about that situation where I can debate effectively

pedit: i agree w/zach

[MarioManiac4]

the most stuff with the least words

for real i can get on it although it'll probably be biased lol

[MarioManiac4]

might fail on the "least words" category there

[MarioManiac4]

Proposition: Creature is scum.

[MarioManiac4]

the incorrect reading only disproves part of it

[MarioManiac4]

The only way to really read Creature imo is by gut and meta tells.

Also, what exactly makes you like Dunn's entrance? On the contrary, I wasn't a huge fan of it.

I like his responses to Mario in their 1v1 on page 38. He seems to be trying to get to the bottom of his suspicion and I agree with the arguments he made about it. (Former did not seem confident - Former seemed defensive imo).

Page 39 was what started to sell me though, because he's asking quality discussion questions here imo.

all dunnstral is doing is asking questions although it's not scumindicative it's easy to fake
i don't see how former was defensive in that post he literally just got jokevoted \o/

[MarioManiac4]

i briefly considered why i thought it was a good idea to join this game then i realised it was because ircher told me to
this game is indeed tiresome but lynching ircher for that is not going to be something I support ever
as funny as it would be if town chainlynched ircher -> drum -> me -> zach i don't actually want that to happen.

[MarioManiac4]

i wouldn't blame this game being tiresome on anyone in particular but more so on it being a mafia game and not reaching required standards to make it better than a normal mafia game ftr

[MarioManiac4]

you'd be incorrect and i don't know why you think i'd do that; i have no problem with scumreading ircher, but he's town this game

[MarioManiac4]

Subject: Mini Normal 1908 - In The Web (Game Over)

Titus Evaluation

1. 38 --> Votes Mort cuz she doesn't like his responses -->

I disagree greatly with the assessment. His reads look fine imo and show a town thought process. It seems more like Titus is simpl trying to find something she can attack herself -- how ironic!

2. 171 --> Elaborates on Mort read; mainly states that Mort's stuff lacks depth and asks too many questions -->

Honestly, I still feel like Titus is trying to find things to attack; Titus made the original read about 1 1/2 pages into the game. So, w/ RVS et cetera, there isn't going to be a lot to analyze so questions won't have a lot of depth. While the # of Qs Mort asked was kinda high, I don't necessarily see it as scum-motivated.

3. 177 --> Admits reasoning was bad cuz trying to get things going -->

And this feels like Titus is distancing from her read. Had she said this way earlier, I might buy it, but this seems to be Titus thinking "Oops! I better try to play that read off as non-serious". I don't buy it at all.

4. 178 --> Mort/Yoshi pinged her as partners -->

This early in the game? I mean, 68 kinda pinged me as Titus / MMM being possible partners, but by no means did I see a solid association between the two. Unless Titus elaborates later, this association read feels superficial and an attempt to appear to have reads while simultaneously casting shade at another player.

5. 182 --> Transcend is weak town -->

I would like to note that this happened after Transcend said that town!Titus pretty much always defends him at this point in the game. Titus is obviously trying to keep her options open.

6. 387 --> Asks how Tarkus can see things as her on Mort despite not understanding Titus's posts -->

Different perspective perhaps? Feels like another shade-throwing attempt. Not to mention that Titus hasn't been too specific in her read, so it's pretty difficult to understand when one quotes zero evidence.

7. 408 --> Says town!Trans actually pressures people -->

What suggests he isn't? Also, I honestly don't see the difference between Transcend here and Transcend in 1900. Again, I think this is scum Titus keeping her options open.

So that is my not meta-based case on Titus.

VOTE: Ircher

I really don't like this post. It's like he's trying to interpret Titus' posts in the worst way possible.

I would never come into this game intending to TR someone. That's appalling behaviour.

[MarioManiac4]

you'd be incorrect and i don't know why you think i'd do that; i have no problem with scumreading ircher, but he's town this game

probably based on the fact that you chainsaw defended him very early on and have been by his side the entire way despite how scummy he has been.

Gee, maybe I don't agree with your opinion on a player. Doesn't that seem like a more likely explanation than me breaking the rules and spirit of this game just to townread someone I like?

[MarioManiac4]

Yeah, the posting format is the same. That's not AI though.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Creature
CHOO CHOO

[MarioManiac4]

Partially that, partially that he is basically just attacking the unnoteworthy targets and partially because he's the most likely scum on FF

[MarioManiac4]

Robb, why did you accuse me of doing something that would necessarily require me to be town while voting you?

[MarioManiac4]

Robb, why did you accuse me of doing something that would necessarily require me to be town while voting me?

ebwop

[MarioManiac4]

The Mario wagon is the biggest joke since Theresa May said the naughtiest thing she's ever done is run through fields of wheat.

[MarioManiac4]

Why isn't Elena scum again?

[MarioManiac4]

you accused me of coming into the game with the intention to tr ircher because i've been defending him
for this to be a real scenario, i have to be town
you are voting for me

[MarioManiac4]

Maybe the reasoning turns around on you because you're not right about everything. Just a suggestion.
I like the logic involved in saying people whose reason for townreading people you disagree with are toxic. This new information has enlightened me. Players who I never thought were toxic are suddenly being revealed as such. Thank you for sharing this revelation with me.

[MarioManiac4]

Why isn't Elena scum again?

I would really like someone to answer this because most people seem to be townreading her but she seems pretty scummy to me.

pedit: Exactly. So stop acting like you do.

[MarioManiac4]

pedit: Exactly. So stop acting like you do.

you first.

you have hard defended ircher from the jump based on faulting reasons. You need to stop thinking black and white.

I provided some good arguments that you absolutely refused to consider.

I've defended Ircher because I think he's town. Is it possible I'm wrong? Sure. Based on what you are saying about Ircher being SO scummy and your arguments being SO wrong that I have to be

breaking the rules

in order to think he's town, I doubt you'd say the same.
Do you think there's scum outside your wagon even?
You provided arguments. I considered them. I rejected them, because I didn't think they were good, and I explained why. You stopped responding to me when I was fully willing to debate the reasons, so don't act like the vicitm here.

[MarioManiac4]

you accused me of coming into the game with the intention to tr ircher because i've been defending him
for this to be a real scenario, i have to be town
you are voting for me

This still stands and I don't know why you don't want to explain it.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Robbnva
If you're town and you legitimately think that because Ircher has been my TR all game I MUST BE FUCKING CHEATING then I dont even know what to say. But that's just complete and utter bullshit and a made-up argument. Eat rope.

[MarioManiac4]

Subject: ***Mini Normal 1744 - Country Music Mafia - Game Over***

Being a pretty shit player myself I don't think I have the right to criticize anyone else's play. I sort of get what you were trying to do though it's not how I'd handle it if I were you. I also don't like lying as town, heck I don't like lying as scum if I don't have to.

FA you reminded me of how I play and interesting enough it's what has basically forced me to to stop playing on 2 other sights and why people hate me on this site. The intense tunneling and refusal to listen to others can only end badly. Hopefully you can learn to change, I apparently can't which is why I'm not playing anymore.

[MarioManiac4]

Not to mention you're still not fucking explaining why you made that argument despite it being contradictory to your reads. You can't be town here.

[MarioManiac4]

"I don't think this is town indicative, so it's not town indicative! Take that, defenders, I just dismissed your arguments! "

pedit: This is fucking unimaginable for town to do =/= PL.

[MarioManiac4]

Elena;
Robb said that he scumreads me.
Robb then said that I was townreading Ircher because I was cheating.
This is a contradiction.

[MarioManiac4]

Cheating in that I came into the game with the intention to TR Ircher no matter what.

[MarioManiac4]

i briefly considered why i thought it was a good idea to join this game then i realised it was because ircher told me to
this game is indeed tiresome but lynching ircher for that is not going to be something I support ever
as funny as it would be if town chainlynched ircher -> drum -> me -> zach i don't actually want that to happen.

seeing this post, I feel like you came in with the mindset you were basically going to tr ircher no matter what...

This isn't "if you're town this is what u did because nobody could EVER tr ircher" which is ALREADY stupid
it's just throwing random shade onto the defence of ircher
like
can someone PLEASE tell me in what universe this comes from town ever

[MarioManiac4]

i mean i think elena is a likely candidate for scum here anyways so i have a high chance of jumping on that. its fully possible that i am somehow failing to see the incredibly obvious and that is why everyone is ignoring me but ??? and I dont even know why pretty much everyone is just ignoring Robb rn.

[MarioManiac4]

Ircher tell me the truth did you read anything I posted or are you ignoring all content related to Robb

this post contained an elena vote until ircher said we were at l-1 wheeee

[MarioManiac4]

do you have examples of him accusing people of cheating out of the blue as town then

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: elena
if you insist

this is l-1

pedit: accusing someone of cheating =/= confbias
it takes a very certain kind of recreational drug to actually come to that fucking conclusion as town and even then youre scum 99.99% of the time
like that does not come from a position of "evaluate possibilities" it comes from a position of "find possibilities"

[MarioManiac4]

Prob. not (I'd have to check) but it seems to be a consequence of his bias imo.

QUIZ TIME

"My lynch target is scummy and anyone who says they're not is cheating!"
A) bias
B) fake bias

pedit: Not really, that's saying "because we can't see what you meant we can't read you for it"
completely different to accusing someone of cheating

Grat, you're misapplying that.

[MarioManiac4]

(That was just for me specifically. For Ircher, it doesn't really count. Besides, it only really works for one game; I said that it's funny that newbies scumread me for it but it's a sign of town-alignment for me. Now that someone is actually using that to read me, I'll have to change my scum behaviour so that I change my vote more. Although, I do think it's generally likely that unless you can see a clear pattern of confirmation bias, anyone continually egging on one player is likely to be scum, and erraticness is more likely, though not guaranteed, to be town.)

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: elena
if you insist

this is l-1

pedit: accusing someone of cheating =/= confbias
it takes a very certain kind of recreational drug to actually come to that fucking conclusion as town and even then youre scum 99.99% of the time
like that does not come from a position of "evaluate possibilities" it comes from a position of "find possibilities"

This post is very scummy, though

she's literally saying "OH PLEASE YOUR SCUMREAD IS OBVTOWN" like if she actually wants to discredit me that hard without showing any sings of engaging with me or reading my things

[MarioManiac4]

you asked me like once, because i wasn't interested in wagoning you or voting me at the time
your vote on me was generally stagnant like i engaged with you on your reasons and you kept on plucking at what amounted to nothing
i also think if you were town scum would've wagoned on that earlier

[MarioManiac4]

do you have examples of him accusing people of cheating out of the blue as town then

Technically it's just violating a site rule but whatever.

Second does it really matter if I've done it before or not? No

Thirdly. I probably have done it before.

No, it's cheating. What you are doing is accusing me of cheating.
Yes, it does matter, because Ircher used meta as a defence.

[MarioManiac4]

but how is robb obvtown though
what i'm seeing is people realising tunnels aren't AI for robbnva -> ??? -> robbnva is obvtown

[MarioManiac4]

defying logic at the very core of your perception =/= town
like what he's saying doesn't hold up to scrutiny at all and it's just really terrible logic
also i have trouble believing that any town human being who is not a bad person would actually accuse me of cheating here and he is far more likely to be scum than a bad person

[MarioManiac4]

ok i apologise if saying the "bad person" thing is over the line but i think it's fundamental to the point i'm trying to make here

[MarioManiac4]

i'm voting elena

[MarioManiac4]

all of whom scumread you

[MarioManiac4]

grat cannot post content due to rl issues
do you really think she would lie about this

[MarioManiac4]

Yeah. That's unfair play. That's cheating.
Stop accusing me of cheating. Stop accusing me of "outside influences." It's an underhanded tactic.

[MarioManiac4]

Stop accusing me of cheating. Stop accusing me of "outside influences." It's an underhanded tactic.

[MarioManiac4]

yes how utterly coincidental that you ended up scumreading those four people

pedit: Then change how you think and realise that
a) accusing townies of "outside influences" is an underhanded tactic and you should stop immediately
or
b) you are accusing me of "outside influences" because of your inability to see what i am seeing and that is a dick move.

[MarioManiac4]

you- i was pointing out that gratiae had a legitimate reason for not posting content.

[MarioManiac4]

ah. apologies then, i missed that.

[MarioManiac4]

Hahahahahahhahaha
"you have given me no respect because you disagree with all of my reads"
"If you are town I'm accusing you of
"Do not bring outside influences into the game - this includes threats, bribes, wagers, promises, "trust tells", alliances, etc. "

[MarioManiac4]

@mod: replace me please

If Robb is going to keep accusing me of breaking site rules I'm going to have to leave the game. Sorry everyone.

[MarioManiac4]

Alright so I'm back because Robb has been told to not vocalize his suspicions of cheating and also Drum wants me to stay apparently! I would hate to subject anyone ELSE to this game, anyway

mario's first vote - votes the person who votes ircher when the logic behind the vote especially for early on wasn't bad.
mario's 2nd vote - opportunistic vote on an seemingly easy target
Mario's 3rd vote - votes fire, who just happens to be attacking ircher also. Claims 328 is reachy which actually isn't, it's basically the same observation I have had. Also during their discussion he claimed former's posts were scummy but remember former voted ircher so more defending of ircher

notice a pattern anyone? with the exception of his vote on me, all of his votes have come because the people think negative of ircher

^This should be lynched D2. Or now. Every single one of these three points have been specifically manufactured to make me look scummy. They don't have a grain of truth or rationality.

[MarioManiac4]

This is not what I am saying, lol I'm saying then you couldn't scumread them if this was the case. The reason you look like a scumfuck to mario is because of these leaps in your thought processes

Well he looked like scum fuck to me a long time ago so I give zero fucks if he wants to omgus me now.

I scumread everyone in the game, now nobody is allowed to scumread me!
^That's your logic in calling my vote OMGUS.

[MarioManiac4]

let's lynch mario. save the mod from finding a replacement, He is clearly over exaggerating because I already said that I think he is scum so if he is scum he isn't breaking the rules.

him replacing out just muddies the water

holy shit this needs rope

so badly

a) huh what if i was town and therefore what you did was a direct personal attack did you think about that
i can answer that for you actually of course you did because you're clearly not actually arguing from good faith here and are instead painting the scenario from a mm4!scum perspective


b) even if i was scum I would still get pissed at this and probably replace out because of it because assuming I would break such a rule at all is STILL an attack on my character
this is basically just a post dedicated to painting me as scum in the face of rational logic
just like pretty much every post that robb makes

i'm not going to be casing robb posts here on out fyi because they're basically all the same

[MarioManiac4]

elena's read on me was largely stagnant, i talked to her about reasons, she didn't really care, it was brought up when it was needed, forgotten about when it wasn't

[MarioManiac4]

I will say if this is a town flip, we're power lynching Mario or ircher.

WE'RE NO STRANGERS TO LOVE
YOU KNOW THE RULES AND SO DO I

[MarioManiac4]

A FULL COMMITMENT'S WHAT I'M THINKING OF
YOU WON'T GET THIS FROM ANY OTHER GUY

[MarioManiac4]

IIIIII JUST WANNA TELL YOU HOW I'M FEELING
GOTTA MAKE YOU UNDERSTAAAAND