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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5134
- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5134
- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5134
- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 5134
- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I apologise. I actually had no idea this was a 2 week day 1. you finding that many scum already is townie, and even more townie as the logic behind it is strange and tinfoily!In post 19, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Ah. So it's Mulch and WhyMafia then. VOTE: WhyMafia
Please avoid multiposts this game.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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scum isn't as creative and paranoidIn post 26, humaneatingmonkey wrote:What's so townie with a logic that you think is strange and tinfoily?
WRT miller claim, I'm yet to see someone hardclaim miller at d1 SOD without being one, and that's the correct approach to the game as miller anyway. risky play for scum and I can see many of you already scum reading that player and thinking lynching him is 'safe' due to that. only a true miller would benefit from hardclaiming early. I also agree with Mulch's reasoning that scum don't know if there's miller in the game, so this has the added risk of being CCed by one.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Posts: 5134
- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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In post 55, Mulch wrote:
Thanks. Are you pocketing me?In post 53, Toranaga wrote:Mulch, you're my favorite player already.
I just like where your brain is at wrt mafia in general, which of course doesn't necessarily mean you're town this game-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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here are some thoughts on the whole miller thing that aren't necessarily in response to anyone:
- d1 SOD openclaiming miller is a townie thing to do, because either the player is a miller or the player is fancy playing his hand hard as scum with no seemingly benefit for his win condition;
- Meta is a powerful tool. some people are good at it, some people are not so good at it. meta speaks directly to who a player is and what his tendencies are, it can work in delimiting a player's range and frequency as town and scum.
- We should lynch scummy people instead of resolving a miller claim d1. Only scum benefits from tunnel vision and only scum benefits from lynching a town player. On that subject, scum benefits strongly from lynching the miller d1, and defending that slot for 'pocketing' and 'town cred' is literally villa siding play.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I haven't found any reasonable argument against openclaiming. I wouldn't do it with certain player fields that I am confident to read me well, and I can see an argument for not claiming if you're trying to keep cop equity and if your kill create cop hunt cleared town. The fact is, claiming miller on later gamedays isn't as believable, and claiming miller after getting peeked scum will get you lynched everytime. Certain players with certain fields in certain games can play it in a different way, but this is not the game for that.In post 72, Havo wrote:I have zero experience with a Miller best I can remember. The site I used to play at never used them that I recall.
So Wiki says they are a negative role and usually used to counter or lessen the power of the town cop. And the correct play is to claim early although it's debatable.
And I think a good argument has been made by both sides or at least I can see both sides.
I would hate to have to resolve the slot in LyLo tho. But my gut says scum wouldn't do this on D1.
As the Wiki says the claim usually gets lynched or night killed anyway. Or maybe that was one of you guys that said it.
I wanna say this post is a little scummy. Bare in mind this is extremely thin, and I don't want to out all the reasons for it. But this is too much commentary instead of adding something to the discussion. Your post is fine otherwise, I get where you're coming from etc. Just think it comes more from scum than town.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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this is a great read on monkey and I agree with it. this is such a good post I wonder if you got there from a perspective of actually knowing he is town.In post 95, Misère wrote:I don't know if WhyMafia is town, but I'm not going to take claiming Miller as evidence that he isn't.
I think humaneatingmonkey is town for taking an unpopular (because wrong, but still) stance w.r.t. WhyMafia's claim, and refusing to soften it under pressure. If he were scum hiding behind policy I would expect him to just say "oh, good point" and back down when everyone disagrees with him.
VOTE: Havo-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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whymafia, Fykus, Mulch and humaneatingmonkey I'm kind of strong townreading considering how early this is and how good I feel about their slots. I think Maria's 'you're not wrong' is a little scummy but if you ask me why I probably can't explain it in simple terms and it's not worth the hassle really. misère's one read on monkey is a good read but it's the kind of stuff you notice harder with TMI on roles, so I'd say is a little >rand scum, especially if misère is good at being scum. I find Havo's commentary mode post a little scummy and said that already.
I guess this is where I'm at mostly. I like that misère is voting Havo... I hope I'm not spamming too hard, lmk if you want me to participate less than this. Never played a 2 week gameday before...-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I have a bunch of them lolIn post 99, MariaR wrote:People have reads already? What the fuck. o_o I got nothing from these blur of 5 pages.
I'm feeling a little bad for having such a high pace, just know I'm aware of it and I'm working on it. IDK how to play something so long! should have signed up for something else...-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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alright I can expand on my townreads anyway:In post 107, MariaR wrote:
It stands for (R)andom (V)oting (S)tage basically people random vote until people see something they don't like and the vote becomes real and talk happens. Also 12 hour days and nights? The FUCK?????? holy shit lol ok thank you. Can you try to give a sentence on your tr's and sr's for me.In post 104, Toranaga wrote:thank you Maria I'm an old player, back when 2+2 community POG was the best place for mafia. RVS was never a thing, I actually don't know what RVS stands for, I just know it refers to randomly voting people. our games used to have 12 hour day, 12 hour night times...
Pedit: I didn't mean worrying as in "wow you're scummy" I meant it in townreading people so easy isn't good at least in my mind because everyone has time to type out posts and plan and where your from that isn't really a thing. I know you just talked about your reads but more detail would be nice.
Pedit 2: I mean I can give you half assed reads if you wished it's not hard to out reads on gut feelings you have but if you ask me "who do you confidently tr" I'd say no one.
Mulch: I enjoy the forthcoming defense of whymafia the way he did it. while the level of confidence in his read may seem excessive/TMIish, I think he actually presented strong reasons and I'm sure I'd be strong defending that slot if I knew it wasn't the type of player who would come up with miller claiming d1 strategy as scum. I find his -nasty- comment on a player townie back in the previous page, and I can't really expand on it without discussing things that shouldn't be discussed. I also like his tone overrall, seems relaxed and flowing well with the thread.
Monkey: this is already 90%ish town in my book (notice =rand is 75% or something). Monkey is strong reading into everything and is coming to the game with an objectively suspicious mindset. I don't think his position on the miller claim is anything to read him or anyone else for, but I do agree with misère his refusal to soften the stance is villagery. I enjoy that he actually clicked and tried reading the games Mulch pasted for him, it shows he is not faking his engagement and is excited to read into the game and solve it. There's some tonal phrasing kinda stuff that's thin, but it's there and it's villagery too.
WhyMafia: I think claiming miller the way he did it makes him miller almost everytime. Other than that, his reaction to pressure is very villagery, as he is showing a mindset of carelessness that people are scumreading him for his claim. He doesn't seem too concerned with convincing people he is miller, which would be an angle he'd probably go for if he planned to claim miller d1 SOD in the first place. His 'don't be lazy, read me for my posting not my claim' is always townie mindset. If I'm wrong about this I'll at least enjoy the fact that this is my first game here
I'll expand on Fykus at some other time. It's nothing particularly good so far. Let's call it a tone read for now.
Also I probably like the way you're interacting with me here, so I'm just gonna:
VOTE: Havowith misère-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I like Chip's posting here in terms of being villagery. I am townreading all the people he is townreading, so he should come around on me pretty soon
I love this read from skitter and it's phrased much better than the way I said the same thing before:
that's exactly the vibe!Like, from 63 and 66, he's fine with being suspected or tunneled so long as people evaluate him beyond his claim and actually try to sort him. He isn't trying to hide behind the claim, but wants people to interact with him despite it.
I do think skitter's post was a little scummy apart from that very nice read.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Misère, I plan on not revealing myself this game but sure, I can link you to a game played on that website anyway (I'm not necessarily in this, just the last game they played there):
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/p ... d-1686742/
I wouldn't be appealing to your ego unless I was a wolf, and I wouldn't be appealing to your ego unless I was trying to buddy you, which I couldn't do while scum reading you in the first place I may have considered your thoughts very good because I thought the same things, which is an appeal to my ego more than anyone else's!
I like that you've come to very similar scumreads, and I like your reasons.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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You guys are really cute thinking I'm townreading and liking posts because I'm buddying scum...In post 123, Chip Butty wrote:
That does absolutely nothing to make me feel better about your slot. Sorry.5In post 114, Toranaga wrote:I like Chip's posting here in terms of being villagery. I am townreading all the people he is townreading, so he should come around on me pretty soon-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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- Joined: July 26, 2017
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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yes, that was horrible and I don't like skitter's push at all.In post 164, MariaR wrote:Hello? Why do we have Havo at L-1 7 pages in when there clearly softing PR. Get off this wagon the fact it picked up so fast with no counter wagon is red flags all over.
If you think Havo is scum we can come back later. Let's vote the band wagon jumper.
VOTE: Chip-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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because he wanted to have monkey at L-1In post 171, skitter30 wrote:
I actually missed this. UNVOTE:In post 157, Havo wrote:L - 1.
This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.
But this time town could literally NOT do worse.
Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.
@Tor: Why are you voting BBT?
@HEM:
In post 169, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Do you think WM is scum? Or are you pushing a policy lynch on him? Similarly, do you actually want to lynch him today?"
Not overwhelmingly. It's a policy lynch, technically. I want him out so we don't have to deal with the slot later, and then analyze based on what happened to the slot later. I think it's because scum would advocate for his survival to the point of LYLO, where it would be too late.
Was the above serious?In post 32, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Ah. It's because the team is WhyMafia, Mulch, and someone who's gonna bus WhyMafia upon entrance.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I'm just gonna say you didn't quite understand my read on monkey, took out relevant parts of it so you misinterpret me better, and your reads list doesn't look very great and my position on it is probably terrible.In post 176, Mulch wrote:[Mulch, WhyMafia, Chip]
[Blue]
[Fykus, Skitter, Thor, Miseré, Creative]
[Toranga, Monkey]----> Note, I doubt these are scum together.
[ MariaR, Havo]
Havo would probably be in null if it wasn't for that bullshit soft.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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you basically responded to a strawman of my arguments for villa reading monkey. You may have misinterpreted it or I may have explained myself poorly, but your rebuttal doesn't refer to anything I explicitly said. I'm talking about things a player did that add to my villa of him, and you're responding to it as if I'm lock clearing the player for any of the specific reasons I did. 'but mafia can play like that!' is a tiresome response.In post 267, Mulch wrote:
Where?In post 264, Toranaga wrote:took out relevant parts of it so you misinterpret me better
also I'd prefer if you could go easier on the hard posting and tunneling of players, because your level of confidence is just annoying me right now.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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that's not even close to what maria said. and I agree with her that at least adds to havo's villa equity, and you shouldn't fake blindness to it because it looks bad on you.In post 269, Mulch wrote:People who think that scum can't be the first wagon are bad at this game-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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that's hilarious, tell me more about your play being aids that pressures villagers to hardclaim.In post 281, Mulch wrote:This is what I did in Giga's game to a T lmao-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I already did my friend. you responded to everything with 'BUT SCUM DOES IT TOO' which, as I said, it's tiresome bad logic that takes you nowhere. everything can be in anyone's scum range, that's an irrelevant argument. the important thing is frequency. 90% is a frequency. being engaged and flowing with the thread is more frequently found in villagers than wolves. IDK why you're confused.In post 284, Mulch wrote:
Ok. Explain your self then: what made you say he is 90% villager?In post 282, Toranaga wrote:
you basically responded to a strawman of my arguments for villa reading monkey. You may have misinterpreted it or I may have explained myself poorly, but your rebuttal doesn't refer to anything I explicitly said. I'm talking about things a player did that add to my villa of him, and you're responding to it as if I'm lock clearing the player for any of the specific reasons I did. 'but mafia can play like that!' is a tiresome response.In post 267, Mulch wrote:
Where?In post 264, Toranaga wrote:took out relevant parts of it so you misinterpret me better
also I'd prefer if you could go easier on the hard posting and tunneling of players, because your level of confidence is just annoying me right now.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I thought you meant to say you did this to a T in a game, as in you got the guy to hardclaim early.In post 288, Mulch wrote:
First off, how do you know he's a villager?In post 286, Toranaga wrote:
that's hilarious, tell me more about your play being aids that pressures villagers to hardclaim.In post 281, Mulch wrote:This is what I did in Giga's game to a T lmao
As scum in Giga's game I literally coasted for 2 days off a "oh, I"m an important power role".-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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it was fast and looked opportunistic, don't be blind now.In post 285, Mulch wrote:In post 283, Toranaga wrote:
that's not even close to what maria said. and I agree with her that at least adds to havo's villa equity, and you shouldn't fake blindness to it because it looks bad on you.In post 269, Mulch wrote:People who think that scum can't be the first wagon are bad at this game
That is exactly what they said. They said the fact it was easy, first, and no counterwagon adds to village equity, which is wrong.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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SCUM ALWAYS BUS EARLY D1 DATS BASIC THEORY
no that's just a horrible post you made. NOTHING scum does with regards to bussing, defending, interacting or whatever is 'basic theory'. you're talking about something that's 100% metagame and depends on who, when and where these people are playing the games, and what is the game being played. you're tripping all over yourself. stop.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I don't need to care about any of those questions you care about. that's your read, not mine.In post 299, Mulch wrote:
No, he pointed out shit points and asked useless questions, which you didn't even comment onIn post 296, Toranaga wrote:'blablabla he asked me questions I didn't like' not something I care about.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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I don't remember, which means it didn't pinge me, which means I don't care.In post 308, Mulch wrote:
So, you did read them, and you didn't see anything wrong with them- you found them irrelevant?In post 307, Toranaga wrote:why would I? I'm reading into other things he did. you read into whatever you want, those are your reads. if I find stuff irrelevant, I won't care.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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everything we're reading are posts, how can you say I'm not considering his posts? yes they're mostly stuff I disagree, but hey yours aren't much better right now, so whatever. mafia isn't about who is logical and coherent, this is not how you scumhunt at all. you can be a completely coherent wolf or a totally incoherent villager who never writes anything good or worthy. It's not how I'll determine monkey's allignment here. maybe you wanna scumhunt that way, that's on you to do so.In post 313, Mulch wrote:
Ok, so let me get this straight. You didn't take into account the quality of Monkey's posts while giving him a near lock town read? Because you didn't mention any, so all of them were irrelevelant? His POSTS were irrelevant?In post 311, Toranaga wrote:
I don't remember, which means it didn't pinge me, which means I don't care.In post 308, Mulch wrote:
So, you did read them, and you didn't see anything wrong with them- you found them irrelevant?In post 307, Toranaga wrote:why would I? I'm reading into other things he did. you read into whatever you want, those are your reads. if I find stuff irrelevant, I won't care.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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2 week games are too long of course. but mafiascum has other problems that have to do with half the player base parading around talking about how unimportant meta is to discern allignments, and stuff like that. lynching havo right now is worse than lynching havo 4 days from now. let's at least respect what people signed up for. play a 12 hour gameday with me on POG any of these days, I love them. this is not it so don't lynch the guy now. It shouldn't be hard for you.In post 315, Mulch wrote:I don't think lynching Havo right now is terrible at all
Also, it's true. The longer the deadlines go on the more town tend to get frustrated.
It's also why shorter deadline sites like Mafia Universe have better functioning towns.-
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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Toranaga Jack of All Trades
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yeah lol I was actually thinking through most of this game you'd be the guy I could work the better with. I agree he needs to claim but we should also look closely at new events ITT like some people jumping on that wagon and the interactions havo is having with people etc. I'm having a hard time believing everyone jumping fast on him was town and I think skitter's posting to him was frankly pretty opportunistic and some stuff just read as fake.