Mini Normal 1941 - Game Over

[Morality]

Yo, yo, yo....

Someone give me some things to look out for on my read up.

[Morality]

No matter the game I've been in, no matter the alignment I've been in the past, I want to slap the ever loving shit out of the person who has uttered the words "scum slip". It has a worse success rate than rolling a fucking d12 and choosing a lynch from that.

What's the issue with stating that? A lot of times I feel that people in 1v1's legitimately do "scum slip" to certain people, but it ends up being entirely circular reasoning, so it doesn't matter if that person knows you are scum. To the outside, nothing is shown. I also think it's not a bad way to for reaction testing.

[Morality]

I never feel like people follow when people state those "Gotcha!" scum slip moments, haha.

[Morality]

Before I read up, why is my slot on top of your town reads list?

[Morality]

Creature dying means there is likely scum off of the Dunker wagon, likely on the Pisskop wagon at its peak. I'd say 1 on the Dunker wagon for sure, likely Tic Tac, and 1 on the Pisskop wagon, likely UnaBombah.

Now, this is just me doing a quick VCA/NKA mixed in with delving a little into ISO's. Now, there could be 2 scum on the Dunker wagon. He seems to be a very mislynchable player, but if there is another, I'd guess that it would likely be near the end of the wagon to hammer it home. Tic Tac does fit that, yes, but I feel there would be another near the end.

[Morality]

I'm leaning more on Panther than Ghost for the 3rd scum slot.

So right now I'm going to be playing while assuming that Tic Tac, UnaBombah, and Panther are all scum. Now how do I catch them?

[Morality]

VOTE: Ghostlin

The reason he gave for PK being town is some hot garbage.

[Morality]

Creature dying means there is likely scum off of the Dunker wagon, likely on the Pisskop wagon at its peak.

This sounds hella fancy but how the fuck did you get this?

Just some simple NKA, mixed in with some logical assumptions. You have to keep the other options open, but if something has a 7% chance of being true, you can push for it, and potentially lower or higher that percentage.

[Morality]

I'm leaning more on Panther than Ghost for the 3rd scum slot.

So right now I'm going to be playing while assuming that Tic Tac, UnaBombah, and Panther are all scum. Now how do I catch them?

Switch in Ghost for Panther here, and that's where I stand now.

[Morality]

VOTE: Ghostlin

The reason he gave for PK being town is some hot garbage.

Do ya believe garbage reasoning is more likely to come from scum?

I don't believe scum has to have garbage reasoning, and if they just put in the work, it's a lot easier for them make a scum case on a townie than a townie can make on actual scum, especially when there aren't many flips to go off of.

When I stated hot garbage, I didn't actually mean that it was a bad scum move. I personally understand why he would want to potentially align himself with me because as scum, he flips, and then it will be assumed that I am a partner of his, and if I flip, he gets some town cred. It's a rather basic foundation to play on, but basics are best, and basics for a reason.

Also, just a side note, I don't know if you guys can tell, but I'm attempting to just be Light from Death Note on this account. It'll be more fun when I eventually roll scum, haha.

[Morality]

Switch in Ghost for Panther here, and that's where I stand now.

Your reads on me and Una sounded stronger than the read on Panther
Is that accurate for Ghost read too?

Do you believe yesterday was likely to end with someone outside of pisskop/Dunks getting lynched?

They sound that way because they are. I didn't really have much of a read on Panther, it was mainly just me filling in the holes of my deductive reasoning and playing with the assumption that my theory of around 7% of being completely correct (made that statistic up, but used 7 for a reason ). I chose to adapt it as I move along, and just keep filling in more holes as I go along.

[Morality]

VOTE: Ghostlin

The reason he gave for PK being town is some hot garbage.

A big reason for this is Ghost stated that PK sounded like a bad player, and that's just not true. Pisskop is actually a much stronger player than the majority of the site right now, he's just not as active as he used to be, so he isn't as well known right now. I also don't believe that his posting in any way would be perceived that way, either.

[Morality]

Switch in Ghost for Panther here, and that's where I stand now.

Your reads on me and Una sounded stronger than the read on Panther
Is that accurate for Ghost read too?

Do you believe yesterday was likely to end with someone outside of pisskop/Dunks getting lynched?

It could have ended elsewhere. Day 1's are rather hard to predict based on a complete lack of information.

[Morality]

Some lazy ass looking votes so far today. Will take a good look on Monday and try to hammer out a full list.

I'm actually rather relieved that Panther pointed out this as being a lot of lazy votes. It's exactly how I'd expect him to act based on the personality being shown in this post. I don't have meta here, but I'm much more confident in Panther being town.

I stand by what I stated, and I know that I'm not off the hook yet either, but I will do what I can to get you guys to see that I'm town after the suspicion being thrown on Pisskop so hard.

[Morality]

Does that change your read of Pisskop knowing that?

[Morality]

It's exactly how I'd expect him to act based on the personality being shown in this post

How can you expect him to act on a post based on the actual post

You can analyze and make predetermined notions and after seeing the action, realize it makes sense.

(Mulch, I'm trying to stay in character and talk like Light. Ssh.)

[Morality]

Even with adding Morality to my possible scum pool, I'm not crazy enough to think that EVERYONE that exists on my wagon is even mostly or half scum.

Probablity is that one scum exists between (Screen, Morality, Mulch); since BBT is my closest to null read.

This is interesting as he just said he still town reads Pisskop slot, and he has posted before being aware that I am that slot.

[Morality]

Yes. Although Screen's still scummy and I now have to realign some of my reads.

Bonus fact that you should keep in mind regardless of my alignment; there's high probability of scum on my wagon.

The wording of this is also strange. He says regardless of his alignment, meaning that he thinks that if he is scum, there is scum likely on his wagon, and he wants us to go off of that?

[Morality]

@Tictac - It's just for fun. Death note is just mafia, so I wanted to try it out to see if I could challenge myself.

Also, it doesn't change the answer for me with the past 785.

[Morality]

You guys are putting too much pretense into me saying expect. I saw the post, and after seeing that, an "Oh yeah, that makes sense with his personality. I'd expect that coming from town him if that's the case." kind of deal.

[Morality]

1052: This isn't dissonant considering you asked me earlier if that changed my read knowing your replacement was new/bad at mafia. You can't have it both ways.

Sure I can. You said it didn't change things. Actually, it's not me trying to have it both ways, it's actually you doing that. You are town reading the slot, but then say it can be scum. Now, I'm not saying how you are doing it is scummy in the first place, but the fact what you just said now makes you completely hypocritical.

[Morality]

You guys are putting too much pretense into me saying expect. I saw the post, and after seeing that, an "Oh yeah, that makes sense with his personality. I'd expect that coming from town him if that's the case." kind of deal.

Where had you seen his personality?

I've already stated all these answers. If you'd like to talk about new stuff, I'm here.

[Morality]

@Ghost - I admit, I did misread something. For some reason I read it as you still did town read Pisskop slot.

[Morality]

VOTE: Tic Tac

Ghost is defending himself well. I can't tell if I was wrong or he's just doing a good job with his arguments. I'll vote Tic Tac whom I can't completely explain why they are scum quite yet, but I'll be on them like a hawk.

[Morality]

You guys are putting too much pretense into me saying expect. I saw the post, and after seeing that, an "Oh yeah, that makes sense with his personality. I'd expect that coming from town him if that's the case." kind of deal.

Where had you seen his personality?

I've already stated all these answers. If you'd like to talk about new stuff, I'm here.

Stop being obnoxious.

Have you played with Panther before?

I've already answered this.

[Morality]

just looked back at a couple of pisskop posts by way of isoing aero for whatever reason

hindsight and all but wished we lynched there first. him flipping scum puts the game close to easy mode imo

Why would it make the game easy? Pisskop' as strong scum player, you think he'd leave that many trails? I've already explained how you were incorrect in speaking about how you thought he was as a town player, and it changed things for you, and now it seemed to have backtracked again.

[Morality]

just looked back at a couple of pisskop posts by way of isoing aero for whatever reason

hindsight and all but wished we lynched there first. him flipping scum puts the game close to easy mode imo

Why would it make the game easy? Pisskop' as strong scum player, you think he'd leave that many trails? I've already explained how you were incorrect in speaking about how you thought he was as a town player, and it changed things for you, and now it seemed to have backtracked again.

Ignore this. I thought Ghost said this, not Panther.

[Morality]

I also don't know if I hate Morality's 1071 as scummy or the lamest push ever. It's sorta like BBT making fun of me for a null read and now we're gut voting "I think you're scum but really can't point to something in 40+ pages as to why."

I've been stating Tic Tac is scum since I got into this game, so this is crap yet again.

VOTE: Ghostlin

Ghostlin's too full of crap, and for some reason everyone town reads Tic Tac. I'll explain it better eventually, but Tic Tac will flip scum.

[Morality]

Remember that after I die.

[Morality]

Some lazy ass looking votes so far today. Will take a good look on Monday and try to hammer out a full list.

I'm actually rather relieved that Panther pointed out this as being a lot of lazy votes. It's exactly how

I'd expect him to act based on the personality being shown in this post.

I don't have meta here

, but I'm much more confident in Panther being town.

I stand by what I stated, and I know that I'm not off the hook yet either, but I will do what I can to get you guys to see that I'm town after the suspicion being thrown on Pisskop so hard.

Panther was never one of my strong reads to begin with, and the underlined is me stating that based on that post is where I got it from. The bold is where I stated I didn't have meta. You lot are all trying to state that I am stating a meta reasoning without having meta. That is not the case whatsoever and that is you all misreading. I stated in the same exact post what exactly it was.

[Morality]

You may say "Tictac is scum" since the entrance of the game, but given your opportunity to push, you can't articulate why, and I'M the one full of crap?

I admit my PK is town push is awful, you can't be bothered to give us your tictac reasoning.

It's a gut read. I believe that's fairly obvious. I've given that, so this is another crap post by you. It's the exact opposite of "Can't be bothered". I also don't have a hard on for pushing Tic Tac and realize that I can't make people see that today.

[Morality]

I've been stating Tic Tac is scum since I got into this game, so this is crap yet again.

Ghostlin looks better than you here. It's very sensible to want reasons for a push and throughout your entire time here even though you keep repeating the same 3 people are scum over and over you've never actually given a reason.

I said 7%. I'm playing Light from Death Note. So if it's coming off as awkward, it's because I'm actively attempting a weird playstyle.

[Morality]

You guys are putting too much pretense into me saying expect. I saw the post, and after seeing that, an "Oh yeah, that makes sense with his personality. I'd expect that coming from town him if that's the case." kind of deal.

Where had you seen his personality?

@Morality

You said that the lazy vote comment was because it fit in with his personality,

before the comment itself (in which you made a positive comparison to his personality)

, where had you seen that aspect of his personality if you hadn't had games with him before?

I specifically said "in this post", so this is inaccurate.

[Morality]

It's exactly how I'd expect him to act based on the personality being shown

in this post.

based on the personality being shown

in this post.

in this post.

[Morality]

I've given that, so this is another crap post by you.

No it isn't, it's completely natural to want explanations for a baseless read.

Although, your right that Ghostlin is mispreprsenting it a bit that you've "pushed" him to the extent his post indicates.

Sure, a baseless read, but my read isn't baseless. It was gut. I stated that I couldn't explain it yet. Might not like that, but it is in fact a base.

[Morality]

You guys are putting too much pretense into me saying expect. I saw the post, and after seeing that, an "Oh yeah, that makes sense with his personality. I'd expect that coming from town him if that's the case." kind of deal.

Where had you seen his personality?

@Morality

You said that the lazy vote comment was because it fit in with his personality,

before the comment itself (in which you made a positive comparison to his personality)

, where had you seen that aspect of his personality if you hadn't had games with him before?

I specifically said "in this post", so this is inaccurate.

Maybe I'm getting confused again but you townread him for that post matching what you would expect with his personality, right?

It was more of me seeing him post like that, and then analyzing after I saw said post, if that makes sense. I've dropped some emphasis on my Light character play to try and clear things up.

[Morality]

After seeing the post, it was like an..."Oh, hmm, I didn't know he had that kind of personality. That changes things. I'd expect that coming from him now."

[Morality]

Sure, a baseless read, but my read isn't baseless. It was gut. I stated that I couldn't explain it yet. Might not like that, but it is in fact a base

Dude, whether gut reads are legitimate is neither here nor there. I used to be a player that played almost entirely on gut reads, I've since changed, but you do you. But it's definintely not scummy by Ghostlin to push you for reasonless reads. I would know, I was lynched day 1 almost all the time because people hated that I coulden't back up my reads and realized that it would be easily replicable by scum.

False. You called it baseless. It is in fact a base.

I don't play on gut, Mulch. It's Boon.

[Morality]

You think I'm going to actively not look for people and try to make cases for them being scum, even if I was scum?

[Morality]

Sure, a baseless read, but my read isn't baseless. It was gut. I stated that I couldn't explain it yet. Might not like that, but it is in fact a base

Dude, whether gut reads are legitimate is neither here nor there. I used to be a player that played almost entirely on gut reads, I've since changed, but you do you. But it's definintely not scummy by Ghostlin to push you for reasonless reads. I would know, I was lynched day 1 almost all the time because people hated that I coulden't back up my reads and realized that it would be easily replicable by scum.

False. You called it baseless. It is in fact a base.

I don't play on gut, Mulch. It's Boon.

What's with you and alts

Wazzup Boon

I wanted to challenge myself and play a character. I'm going to go back to that pretty soon, haha. This one wasn't intended to be secret anyways.

[Morality]

I don't care if it's a base, people push others for doing pushes that don't make sense or that don't have adequate reasons all the time. So regardless of the fact if your a player that does gut base reads like that, it's not scummy for him to push it.

Sure, it's not, but him calling it baseless is.

Regardless, I'm one of the people who talk about why people should always be trying to make cases, town or scum.

If I don't make cases, it's because I'm still working out what the case is, and how I want to go about pushing it.

[Morality]

most scum don't have the ability to make flawless cases on town and a gut read would sort of be a substitutute.

I do.

[Morality]

I am a firm believer that it is much easier to make a scum case on townies than it is to make a scum case on scum.

[Morality]

I am a firm believer that it is much easier to make a scum case on townies than it is to make a scum case on scum.

Scum making a scum case on townies than a townie making a scum case on scum*

[Morality]

I'm one of the people who talk about why people should always be trying to make cases, town or scum

I actually think cases are in effect what scum does to hide their confirmation bias. I mean, most cases I see on this site are just posting entire Isos and not taking into account the redeeming qualities of them. So if I made a case on you right now Boon, it would look virtually indistiguishable to if I made a case on you as scum, as both times I'm just trying to highlight every bad thing I find (basically, it's "forced" the way scum act all the time)

This is true to an extent. While looking through a narrow tunnel, one might see them as indistinguishable, but when you take it a step forward and you can see a wider angle, the differences start to show. If you question the reasoning behind everything you do, you can make a scum case on town as scum, but a lot of times there's a simple answer to countering that. Why couldn't that be done as town?

*I stepped back into character.

[Morality]

Sure, it's not, but him calling it baseless is.

Your completely wrong here, it's 100% natural and reasonable and sensible and towny and w/e to think an say a gut read is baseless.



Luckily though, Ghostlin is scummy for other reasons

Well, I disagree with this. If I were pushing the wagon harder, or trying super hard to get people to follow, I would agree, but I wasn't, so I am very aware that there isn't a foundation to build on, but there is a base, even if it isn't located yet.

[Morality]

If anything, that's more of a reason to scum read him, because it isn't necessarily insensible for a towny to want to discredit that, but why would TownGhostlin want to?

[Morality]

The answer is simple. To save his own skin and discredit someone who is a threat to his survival through another player.

[Morality]

After seeing the post, it was like an..."Oh, hmm, I didn't know he had that kind of personality. That changes things. I'd expect that coming from him now."

But didn't you just say

the post itself

influenced your personality?


So, let's dumb this down for me.

You see a post. You say, hey, based on Panther's personality, it makes sense for him to do that post, so I'm going to townread him based on it.

But the way you gleaned information about his personality...was the same post?

So coulden't this just be said about any post?

"In post 67, I gained information about someone's personality, and therefore the post matched his personality"

Well duh, because the entire basis for the personality was that post

I guess you are correct that it could be said about any post, but I hadn't been directly involved with anything with Panther up until that point.

[Morality]

If anything, that's more of a reason to scum read him, because it isn't necessarily insensible for a towny to want to discredit that, but why would TownGhostlin want to?

To push you as being scum for it? Don't be obtuse.

Someone just said this to me. I'm more acute than obtuse.

[Morality]

Like I said, it's a survival move on Ghost's part to go through Tic Tac. He can expect one of two things to happen from his posting.

1) I make a case on Tic Tac, and then people can push there.

2) I don't make a case on Tic Tac, and I become discredited, thus not having to worry about one more person on his tail.

[Morality]

Oh, that's simple. I just kind of threw Panther in there in the beginning because I was playing my Light character, and had a sense he could have been scum. I needed to find a way to dive into this game as well. I wanted to go along assuming that the stated team was the entire scum team (that's a thing in Death Note, even if it's a small percentage). For me, that was enough to prove me wrong there, or at least have reasonable doubt against it.

[Morality]

I've been responding to posts prior to you posting again. I should really quote, because it's causing confusion.

[Morality]

I see him as scum, so there is number 3 for me.

[Morality]

But from your perspective, there should have been a number 4, and that would be that I would be scum.

[Morality]

I don't feel that it's going to be able to go much further than that, really. I just didn't think he was scum after that post. No real reason. It's as simple as that.

[Morality]

But from your perspective, there should have been a number 4, and that would be that I would be scum.

Mine or Ghostlin?

both. I agree, I wasn't incredibly clear. More Ghost.

Ghost isn't scum hunting. He's discrediting in place of scum hunting, and is using that in a way to morph into a scum read.

[Morality]

I don't feel that it's going to be able to go much further than that, really. I just didn't think he was scum after that post. No real reason. It's as simple as that.

Alright. :/

I really don't like that post but nothing else is really scummy from you especially considering your boon so I'm not gonna push you

I felt you would have picked up on me being potentially Boon this game anyways.

Anyone who knows of Pisskop being one of my favorite players on site probably would have picked up on the way I was talking about him. Don't know if anyone here was aware of that.

I'm going to get naked and wet now, so I'll be back in like 20.

[Morality]

Oh, and if it matters, considering the fact the last time I threw a gut read on Tic Tac, I was correct. I was able to explain it a little more last time, but I will be able to eventually.

[Morality]

I am voting who I think is scum.

Also, I wasn't outed as an alt really then, so it didn't make sense for me to state that since I wouldn't have had proof of being a good tic tac scum detector.

[Morality]

Whenever BBT is scum, things generally ping at me, not necessarily me thinking he's scum, but nothing makes me feel off about BBT in any way thus far into the game.

[Morality]

I already said who I was too.

[Morality]

@Srceen - I replaced Pisskop.

[Morality]

Ghostlin (4) - Srceenplay, BlueBloodedToffee, Mulch, Morality

Actually, that post by Una made me more confident in this wagon.

I'm comfortable reading and am confident in every one on this wagon's ability to catch scum. Played multiple games with each of these people. Yeah, I'm happy with Ghost.

[Morality]

Also the fact that the four of us are known players to be able to single handedly get a wagon to happen and the fact there is so much resistance tells me Ghost is scum, or scum is white knighting Ghost hard.

[Morality]

I'm leaning more on Panther than Ghost for the 3rd scum slot.

So right now I'm going to be playing while assuming that Tic Tac, UnaBombah, and Panther are all scum. Now how do I catch them?

Lol, and I replaced Panther with Ghostlin when he started scumming it up and I started town reading Panther.

Srceen, looks like we're on the same exact page.

[Morality]

Panther's stuff this posts make me town read him harder. I agree with Tchill as town, and Ghost is scum af.

[Morality]

plenty of things you could have responded to without anyone else being around.

[Morality]

Couldn't get on today. I'll have thoughts tomorrow.

[Morality]

I see this as town Tchill, town BBT, and town Srceen. Mulch could be scum, but I have no reason to believe it as of now.

[Morality]

Unless I’m wrong on multiple of those players, who I feel I know extremely well at this point, then it’s more than likely just Ghost.

BBT is the only sole scum out of the group I would expect to be able to pull off a wagon with said players on it.

If I am to go forward with the assumption that Ghost is town, then Mulch/Tchill would become more likely, but I think Una/Ghost just fits as a team really well. Tic tac being scum likely pi’s the reason it’s stalled so much. Not enough power for a counterwagon, and Una’s slow moving forward style.

[Morality]

I guess it’s not out of the realm for Panther to take Tic tac’s spot if I am wrong on Tic Tac, and he was here doing damage control. BBT is the correct target if Ghost is scum and BBT is town.

[Morality]

...but please vote BBT if Ghost flips town

Both of whom I'm leaning town on.

So you should be a tad bit anxious then?
Who is the scum in Ghost wagon, if you don't think it's BBT?
I can't accept an all-town wagon at this point myself.

I mean, if Ghost ends up being scum, I will power tunnel here and consider it an all town wagon at this point.


I almost want to lynch Una over Ghost, because if Una flips red, then this “can’t accept an all town wagon” thing is a perfect way to go about an all town wagon made up of the five of us.

[Morality]

Yes. I have a lot of meta to pull from the players in this game, mainly BBT.

[Morality]

Vote: Ghostlin

If this is a town hammer, that’s incredibly annoying. I was about to move over to Srceen for his suspicious unvote.

Scum self hammering here makes sense, though, and I may lock Srceen as town after that.

[Morality]

There was no reason to self hammer as town. Ridiculously anti town. That’s a scum self hammer.

[Morality]

Why’d you kill me, Mulchy?