Mini 1997: The Clownspiracy (Game Over!)

[Wh4t]

VOTE: StefanB

Serious vote. I dislike his reaction to the miller claim, he felt forced and slightly LAMIST IMO.

I would appreciate others' thoughts on his entrance.

[Wh4t]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
VOTE: wh4t
Hi! Remember me?

Hi Archwing, good to see you again. Do you have any initial impressions from the other players?

I'm leaning Rask, Maki town; And Gamma, Cedrick scummy.

I feel the interactions between Rask and Maki were pretty natural and carefree, in a way that I think scum can't easily pretend to behave.

I do agree that Maki has played her claim optimally, under the assumption that she is indeed the miller. I also agree that it is still best for town to sort her in a similar fashion to other slots, rather than giving her a free pass for the claim alone. With both the claim and her behaviour, I'm inclined to lean town.

I feel Rask has made a few insightful comments, like wanting to see slots interact that would have a greater ability to read each other (in reference to him wanting to see Kokichi and Maki interact). This isn't a strong read but enough for me to town lean at this stage of the game.

Gamma, on rereading, pinged me with his statements about him sorting, without any evidence he is doing so. I believe scum are more likely to care about how they appear to others so blank statements like "I was trying to be a jester, but then had to try and solve this game" are more likely to come from scum. Rather than saying you're solving, town are more likely to solve and have people recognise their intent as a by-product. I also didn't like the way he non-chalently jumped on my StefanB vote without adding anything new to my perspective.

Cedrick, I love the jokes but on rereading all your posts so far have been fluff. Bahumbug.

[Wh4t]

Wh4t, GE: Interesting that LAME (which I don't disagree with I am not funny) is the point you are stresing.
And you don't think that the question why Maki is a miller could give us some hint about the scumteam?

Hi Stefan, I may be misinterpreting your playstyle as LAMIST (Not lame). I'm happy to watch you a bit longer.

I don't understand what the point of asking a player "why they received their role" is? If scum or town I don't see how a response would be AI for you. How would it hint about a scumteam?

It's pretty obvious why a miller would be in the mix and I think it would be anti-town to delve further into that discussion.

On that note.

VOTE: Cedrick

[Wh4t]

I disagree on a Cedrick read based on all fluff posts

Hi Brass, could you please clarify this statement? Do you disagree that "fluff posts" are a valid reason to scum read someone at this stage of the game; or do you believe it is wrong to scum read Cedrick based on "fluff" according to his meta? Or?

[Wh4t]

Mr overachiever here can be a townlean.

And, I disagree on a Cedrick read based on all fluff posts, but Gamma's vote onto Stefan basically just sheeping another player seems kind of out of character from what I've seen Gamma do as town.

VOTE: Gamma

Clarifying, I think Cedrick is Null right now. Not a townlean or a scum lean after 4 posts.

I missed this, apologies. I'll interpret that as "there isn't enough content to genuinely read this player."

Why do you believe I voted Cedrick over gamma, when I had more evidence for a scum lean on Gamma?

[Wh4t]

you'll have to tell me, I can't speak for your thinking.

I suppose it was a roundabout way of saying I believe it's more efficient to be proactive in handling a low-content slot rather than just labeling someone as "unreadable."

all I know is that brassherald might be a PL, apparently he can be awkward af, so be wary i suppose?

To make sense of this, are you saying Brass may be a Policy Lynch because he is awkward? If so, why would awkwardness = Policy Lynch?

I'll certainly take your read of his playstyle into account.

Why do you have a very high expectation of rvs posting?

I think this assumption is a bit of a stretch. Sure RVS posting starts out all fun and games however, we're now up to four pages of content which need to be analysed for anything remotely AI. If you believe that all RVS content is not AI, then it would logically follow that games would never leave the RVS phase.

In comparison to other slots that have posted, I'll say yours is the one with the least game-relevant AI content.

I'll meet your stretch and ask, why are you implying that town should not want to leave RVS as soon as possible?

[Wh4t]

Gamma, skimming over your past games I see that you get scum read quite frequently as town. Why do you think that is?

Pedit Cedrick, you've proved 1 of your posts are non-fluff and I'm not even entirely convinced that set-up spec should qualify as something game-progressing, but I'll be generous. Naming a clown absolutely does not count as AI content. Apologies if you feel I've misrepped you. I'm feeling your response is genuine.

[Wh4t]

Interesting that no one else really reacted to it. But one was interesting:

Did you hear about the human cannonball? He got fired!


Most people don't really react to miller claims anymore. Most people believe proper play is to claim it in your opening post and it's mentioned on the wiki. The best thing to do is just ignore it and treat him like any other player since the miller claim is not verifiable (at least not by a cop)

Chronological progression:

Someone claims Miller
People talk about it
Someone refs wiki which states optimal play
Beefster says claiming Miller was bad

And now there is nothing worth weighing in on?

I said I was gonna lie low but fuck sakes.

What do you call a woman falling in love with a carnie? Juggle Fever

Not that it matters, I don’t recal anyone saying it’s optimal play to do that.

I don't even have words to express myself right now.

[Wh4t]

Chronological progression:

Someone claims Miller
People talk about it
Someone refs wiki which states optimal play
Beefster says claiming Miller was bad

And now there is nothing worth weighing in on?

I said I was gonna lie low but fuck sakes.

So, he's stupid. I could have called him stupid for saying it right there, but where does that really get us?

This is a bad post on many levels. First, he's overdefensive when called out for neglecting the Beefster wagon. Rather than making excuses for not contributing, it would make more sense to sort Arch and Beefster based on the interactions. Secondly, he resorts to ad hominem/insulting the player instead of responding to the current argument. Third, I believe Brass is more intelligent than his post gives him credit for. I mean, "where does that really get us?" Really?

[Wh4t]

You think you proved something but you didn’t. I’d probably keep my mouth shut also if I were you.

You're not me, but feel free to keep your mouth shut anyway.

[Wh4t]

Kokichi has a point. Arch you seem all over the place, now that your arguments are being heavily contested. Why the jump to a BuJaber wagon?

[Wh4t]

I figured out why this game feels a little weird. Usually there's both scumhunting and townhunting/cohesion, but here it's like all scumhunting.

I still like my town reads. I'll add Kokichi to the pile too. I was tempted to add Arch, but I'm more hesitant now.

What do you make of Archwing's behaviour on this page?

Pedit isn't rolefishing based on role titles virtually impossible in a non-breakable set-up?

[Wh4t]

Hi Kiana. Efficient, I like it. I can agree with your Arch and StefanB reads. The Rask read seems a little biased from the start in regards to his opening RVS vote on Maki; your deduction based on that, I initially thought was in jest, however you seem to have built on it looking for reasons for scum Rask more so than town Rask. I do agree that his hard town read of me was suspicious but in the context of his ISO I still lean town overall. Perhaps you're more familiar with him?

I moved my vote to Cedrick to get a reaction and I'm growing more convinced that he is heavily confirmation biased town. So I can agree with that read too.

I find it odd that you have not weighed in on the content from Maki and Brass so far.

I'm happy to vote Arch later in the day if nothing changes but I'm remiss to vote the only person familiar with me right now.

UNVOTE:

[Wh4t]

Some people are way too eager and it feels fake.

Can you be more specific

A ham sandwich walks into a bar and orders a beer. Bartender says, 'Sorry we don't serve food here.'"

Sure. Wh4 has an unrealistic expectation of what posts on page 1/2 should look like and votes somebody for fluff posting. That looks to eager to me.

You are expecting people to have a bunch of reads on page 5. That is also unrealistic to me and seems eager.

How is any of this fake though? I feel like you're shutting me down for scum hunting. Since when is there such a thing as "too early for scum hunting?"

You also neglect to mention others who are sorting from the start. I suppose my playstyle rubs you the wrong way, and the feeling is mutual, but it doesn't make either of us scum.

[Wh4t]

Do you not find suspicious the fact that Raskol scumreads Beefster for asking about Ronald Mcdonald but turns a blind eye to Stefan (coincidentally, a scumread of mine too) who blatantly rolefishes for both flavour and role?

It's like yelling at the person who just farted in the room but completely ignoring that hobo taking a poop on the floor.

That's quite the metaphor lol.

It can see how it's suspicious however I feel he's making the same mistake that Cedrick is making by only sorting interactions that involve him directly.

So, StefanB got my attention straight away as I came into the game a bit later and so was assessing everything while catching up. Rask was interacting real time with others, Maki in particular, and could have brushed it off as early RVS fluff content. The "role-fish" read from Beefster was directed at him so he was more likely to assess that post IMO.

Pedit I agree that tunneling is typically a scummy tactic. I'll have to watch Rask a little closer.

[Wh4t]

W4 seemed too tryhard to be scum at first but some of his pushes seem overly aggressive and based on his subjective interpretation. Scumlean.

Overly aggressive? Can you please give examples? I've tried to be fair when appropriate. Are anyone's reads not subjective?

This is a garbage read, but I'll give you credit for touting an unpopular opinion.

[Wh4t]

Eh it's getting late and my ego is sufficiently deflated for sleep. Brass you didn't respond to my last post directed at you.

[Wh4t]

How was my vote weird, Maki?

Because you voted him for reasons that were outright false. I assume you're playing dumb though.

Nope! He put words in my mouth. I asked a question, never claimed it. If he really thought I claimed it he would have voted me.

He said. "you claimed not town"
and you did
I obv know you're kidding but maybe he didn't what am I missing

No idea what you're talking about.
When you feel like talking sense and not blatant lies let me know

Hi Maki,
Your interactions with Kokichi are difficult to interpret. In each post you seem to imply that he is gambitting with his opening and the push on Arch was bad, yet when he doubles down on why he was in fact serious about the vote, you just call him a liar and let it be.

When I look at Kokichi again, he's not as strong a town read as I previously thought. It pinged me that he echoed the phrase Cedrick used "putting words in his mouth" to cast shade on Arch (if Arch is town). Further, I find it uncharacteristic that he did not challenge my town read of him, which I intentionally did not elaborate on like my other town reads.

Kokichi is still pushing for an Arch lynch. Do you believe any of this is alignment indicative?

[Wh4t]

pedit. yo, koki is probably town. just stop with this shit.

Arch why is he probably town to you?

[Wh4t]

Kaito

troll or srs

srs

I have no idea how Kaito is a town read to anyone.

[Wh4t]

I recall a game I read, where he lurked until LyLo and then started acting serious closer to the time. He ended up being scum in that game, so I'm hesitant to take someone's town read off of two posts at face value. I'm not advocating a lynch on him as it stands, there are worse slots.

[Wh4t]

Maki, Ras, Wh4t, everyone else who pops up:
What do you think about Gammas reaction to the whole think?
Scum not paying attention/misinterpretting this or town who sees thinks differently.

Thanks that is helpful re Kokichi.

What are you referencing here Stefan? Sorry the thread is quite active ATM.

[Wh4t]

I recall a game I read, where he lurked until LyLo and then started acting serious closer to the time. He ended up being scum in that game, so I'm hesitant to take someone's town read off of two posts at face value. I'm not advocating a lynch on him as it stands, there are worse slots.

Who is this talking about? and which game?

I'm discussing Maki's town read on Dunnstral. The game name I can't remember off the top of my head but Maki and Kokichi were also in that game, Dunnstral was scum with Drealmerz and somene else beginning with D. I'll dig it up.

[Wh4t]

I recall a game I read, where he lurked until LyLo and then started acting serious closer to the time. He ended up being scum in that game, so I'm hesitant to take someone's town read off of two posts at face value. I'm not advocating a lynch on him as it stands, there are worse slots.

Who is this talking about? and which game?

I'm discussing Maki's town read on Dunnstral. The game name I can't remember off the top of my head but Maki and Kokichi were also in that game, Dunnstral was scum with Drealmerz and somene else beginning with D. I'll dig it up.

Mini 1966

[Wh4t]

alt, main, acct, whatever.

the number of anime accounts is too damn high!

[/someone-who-doesn't-watch-anime]

Off topic: You should youtube danganropa it will blow your mind and, you'll understand where Kokichi and Maki got their avatars from.

[Wh4t]

pedit. yo, koki is probably town. just stop with this shit.

Arch why is he probably town to you?

Arch once you've educated yourself about psychopathic teddy bears, can you please respond to this?

[Wh4t]

Gamma: Okay doki.
I begin with 261: Kokichi appears, offers not much. Disappears.

Your vote and unvote:
Makes not much sense to me. The vote is okay, the unvote is a bit more unsure. (263,264)

** I feel scum would be too self-conscious to do that.**

Brass: I accept that vote. Not much of an opinion on it.

Our discusion:
I can see where someone get the litteral expresion re the Archwing-Kokichi, I still can't see how you got to your interpretation of the interaction between Kokichi-Maki. This why I am asking people.

**I'm inclined to believe you're misinterpreting each other here**

Comments in bold above. I'm town reading you and starting to lean town on Gamma also.

What are your thoughts on Archwing?

[Wh4t]

Wh4t: The discusion between Archwing-Kokichi and Maki is the beginning.
Gamma read on Maki was

Maki is kinda half and half, don't like them doubling down on someone's mistake,

my question was if this was belivable.

I agree with Gamma's read. I did talk about my hesitation around her approach to Kokichi.

[Wh4t]

VOTE: kiana

Was going to wait for response first but I have mixed feelings on arch wagon.
Feels like overexaggerating reads and really trying to get hard judgments where it doesn't feel realistic. There is some complexity to her credit but I'm not feeling it as genuine.

I can see where you're coming from Rask, I'm not confident enough that Arch is town to start pursuing those pushing his wagon just yet.

I'll agree that Kiana's method, while efficient, is somewhat narrow in scope. It's not a bad starting point. I'll see how it goes.

[Wh4t]

Readslist 1.0

{Stefan, Maki, Rask, Gamma}
{Kiana, Cedrick}
{Kaito}
{Kokichi, Beefster, Brass}
{Archwing, BuJaber}

[Wh4t]

Sorry buddy.

VOTE: Archwing

[Wh4t]

bad list is bad

Can you help me out with what your readslist looks like?

[Wh4t]

town to scum,

{archwing}
{bujaber, koki, stef}
{cedrick, maki}
{wh4t, gamma, brass, kaito, beef} ****
{kiana, rask}

* = null line. above it are slight townleans, nothing more.

BuJaber bothers me because he seemed to be pandering to Kiana on his entrance e.g. his read on Stefan. It also bothered me that he had me as his only scum lean, yet he voted for Rask (again following Kiana's lead) for something he termed strange. When I pushed him to explain his scum read on me, he talked to me from the perspective he knew I was town. I mean, telling someone that their playstyle is "aggressive" and that it's not the best way to get responses from others is not a valid reason to scumread someone even if accurate. It felt like he was trying quite unnaturally to be reasonable to both me and those reading his posts (200,201). I find both his intent and approach suspect towards me.

In regards to Arch, he called him too scummy and reasoned that he must but a jester; however when Gamma pointed out that Jesters do not exist in this set-up, he said thanks but neglected to readjust his read of you.

In summary, so far it's all trying to look good and busy without actually doing anything I'd consder towny.

In fact I'm more confident in my BuJaber read than I am of my read on you.

VOTE: BuJaber

Arch what are your thoughts on BuJaber? He looks like a big town read to you.

[Wh4t]

{kiana, rask}

Do you think they're bussing or are you just looking at their individual scumminess?

[Wh4t]

Could a Mathdino game get even more epic?
...you bet Jurassican.

LMAO.

[Wh4t]

2. 3 of the roles were randomised to be mafia. Any necessary changes were made to fit their new alignments (for example, no Mafia Innocent Child).

I'm such a derp. I thought there were only two scum, until I analysed the VC and realised that doesn't make sense from a balance perspective.

InB4 everyone scumreads me for a fake town tell.

[Wh4t]

2. 3 of the roles were randomised to be mafia. Any necessary changes were made to fit their new alignments (for example, no Mafia Innocent Child).

I'm such a derp. I thought there were only two scum, until I analysed the VC and realised that doesn't make sense from a balance perspective.

InB4 everyone scumreads me for a fake town tell.

y tho
also I've been thinking you're town before this so *shrug*

Too many micros.

[Wh4t]

Spicy read: BuJaber/Brass/Cedrick scum team.

Kokichi can go back to being town. I'm flip flopping on Arch. I can see where he came from, but I think he made a few missteps as he doesn't seem to do well under pressure. I think it's too early to call the mob on him just yet but I admit I may be biased with my earlier experience of him. I hesitate because his readslist is a little more controversial than I'd expect of scum.

[Wh4t]

Spicy read: BuJaber/Brass/Cedrick scum team.

Kokichi can go back to being town. I'm flip flopping on Arch. I can see where he came from, but I think he made a few missteps as he doesn't seem to do well under pressure. I think it's too early to call the mob on him just yet but I admit I may be biased with my earlier experience of him. I hesitate because his readslist is a little more controversial than I'd expect of scum.

Why thos elast 2?

I reISO'd looking for others who also, meaning as well as BuJaber, were trying to look busy without substance. The VCA fits right, along with the lack of interactions between these slots.

As forewarned, this is a spicy read and not gospel at this point in time.

[Wh4t]

Beefster can you please give some scum reads? I only note Rask in your ISO.

Rask, now that you've seen Maki and Kokichi interact, what are your thoughts?

[Wh4t]

town to scum,

{archwing}
{bujaber, koki, stef}
{cedrick, maki}
{wh4t, gamma, brass, kaito, beef} ****
{kiana, rask}

* = null line. above it are slight townleans, nothing more.

If I break down Arch's readlist with game interactions I draw the following conclusions:

Koki cannot be a buddy.
Stefan is not a likely buddy. (224)
Cedrick is not a likely buddy. (122)
Gamma is unlikely but possible. (267)
Brass is not a likely buddy (197,265)
Kiana cannot be a buddy.

That leaves Rask who could potentially be a scum buddy, and that doesn't take into account that Arch is currently voting to lynch him. Who really knows what Beef and Kaito are thinking.

So unless we're willing to accept some combination of {Arch, Rask, Beef, Kaito} or believe scum are bussing; I'm thinking Arch is more likely lost town when looking solely through this perspective.

[Wh4t]

I really think arch is jester here. He's just too scummy.

Oh, I omitted BuJaber as a likely buddy.

[Wh4t]

You know, I wouldn't go as far as saying kiana arch is cleared because arch put kiana low in his list and kiana voted arch. If anything kiana had more reasons to vote me.

A few of Kiana's reasons to scum read you were founded on bias, and thus not as strong a reason. I don't see a reason for Scum Kiana to come in, build a case and then vote her buddy. If she had been here from the start and decided she scum read him when others did then that would be feasable. IME scum pushes are usually pretty weak/baseless/unnatural. I can see why people are suspicious of Arch currently.

[Wh4t]

VOTE: Kiana Kaslana

Why are you not rescinding BuJaber's townpoints for his scum read on me Princess?

I think I've had enough of the false bravado.

[Wh4t]

@arch
would you be willing to vote kiana with me?

Mate, I really do not care if my scumreads vote on me. Weird that you have to make an exaggerated theatric to publically call for your buddy to vote me, that suggests scum do not have daytalk. That makes the game easier for us, I guess.

Daytalk is permanently enabled.

[Wh4t]

Hi BuJaber,
What are your thoughts on the few posts proceeding yours? 433 - 436 - 440

Specifically what do you think of Kiana accusing Rask of being "theatrical" when he was asking for support for his wagon on her, which then lead her to "assume" that the scum team didn't have daychat?

Do you believe it was a genuine town tell in that scum should know if there is daychat or not? Could it be fabricated?

Next, what do you make of her not responding to my correction?
If she doesn't readjust her read on Rask and, admit the improbability that Arch and Rask are a scumteam based on her providing evidence that they aren't likely communicating via daychat, would you find that scummy?

Let me know if you would appreciate a response to your post, I see it as a waste of time at this point but I'll be happy to if it matters to others.

[Wh4t]

Wh4t is looking for associations but I don't ever really follow them to anything useful

Call me pessimistic. Associations are generally only useful post-flip. I'm hoping town looks back at the links if Arch is lynched and I die.

The associations Kiana unwittingly pointed out between Rask and Arch matter for her own scum reads, and for us to read her off of.

Do you have reason to think she checked the thread after you corrected her?

And yes please respond to my post why wouldn't you? Dialogue leads to better reads and more content for everyone else to analyze.

I posted 1 minute after her last post, in the midst of her to-and-fro with Rask so, yes, I find it odd that everybody seemed to log off after I brought it up.

I wouldn't respond because it would just be me disagreeing, defending myself and looking for holes that point to you being scum in return. I feel like I've said my piece and you've said yours. It's up to others what they think. What better way to avoid a boring 1v1 than to bounce reads off of each other instead? Seems more efficient to me.

I've provided more dialogue than I think people care to read at this point. On that note, I'll let the thread breathe for a day or so.

[Wh4t]

I know I said I would let the thread breathe but the likelihood of an early lynch is ringing alarm bells. Yes, everyone has very valid points in response to Kiana's scumhunting tactics this game, however I can't help but be suspicious of both Gamma and Cedric in regards to their approach to the wagon.

Gamma has added fuel to both fires now (please check his ISO). First he egged on the Arch wagon and now he's egging on the Kiana wagon. I find his method disingenuous in that he doesn't seem to care about responses to his pushes; he seems to care more about presenting accusations instead AKA scum shading. Gamma seems pretty certain about scum Kiana but has not voted. Actions speak louder than words after all. It's as if he's a vulture circling and waiting for the best prey.

I feel Cedrick, as town, has no business coming in and dropping a vote on an escalating wagon when he hasn't yet caught up in the thread. It feels very opportunistic and wreckless at best, to vote without all the information when VLA on a wagon that could potentially go through before his return. I see no natural progression on his Kiana vote, or of his town reads of Gamma/Arch to dignify sheeping them so confidently.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

BuJaber, IME my meta on Gamma is not very good. I've found his playstyle tends to change a lot as either alignment. I will say that he is an easy mislynch so I do hesitate on scum reading him more than other slots as I hinted at earlier in the game. Now I feel I've seen at least two cases of scummy behaviour towards building wagons. I also dislike his clever set up for another lynch of you should Arch flip town lol.

In regards to Arch, I keep flip flopping. We both played our first MS game together and that's all the meta I have on him, so I can't decide if he's just making misteps and lacks confidence under pressure or if he's scummy. I have said I will lynch Arch if he is the main wagon at day end.

What do you make of their behaviour on these last few pages?

Readslist 1.1 coming soon.

[Wh4t]

Gamma Emerald, Raskolnikov, Kokichi Oma
Cedrick, Wh4t, Archwing
StefanB, brassherald, Beefster
Kaito Momota, Maki Harukawa, Kiana Kaslana

I'm mystified and slightly offended that Kaito is such a strong town read for you. Can you please elaborate on that read?

[Wh4t]

Gamma Emerald, Raskolnikov, Kokichi Oma
Cedrick, Wh4t, Archwing
StefanB, brassherald, Beefster
Kaito Momota, Maki Harukawa, Kiana Kaslana

I'm mystified and slightly offended that Kaito is such a strong town read for you. Can you please elaborate?

[Wh4t]

Yeah starting to feel like Arch is caught scum at this point. Ready to see a flip.

VOTE: Arch L-1.

[Wh4t]

Also brass voted and asked to be replaced maybe wait for the replacement before ending day please?

This is a valid point. I still think Arch will be a great information flip either way.

UNVOTE: L-2

Waiting on replacement.

[Wh4t]

Readslist 1.1

{Stefan, Maki, BuJaber, Brass}
{Kiana, Kaito, Beefster}
{Kokichi, Gamma}
{Cedrick, Rask, Archwing}

[Wh4t]

Hiraki do you want more time in the day to sort? I seriously doubt Kiana/Arch can be a team and I want Arch lynched so I can sort my reads properly. Is there a particular reason you want Kiana lynched first?

[Wh4t]

Great posting Hiraki.

I go hard day 1 because I'm pessimistic about my chances of living further down the track. A Kiana/Bu team makes sense, as does a Arch/Rask team IMO and realistically those two teams are mutually exclusive.

I feel like BuJaber wouldn't have been so open to proactive discussion and reevaluating his read on me if he were scum. I feel the same about Kiana. Maki has played the miller claim optimally and I don't see how it would be worth the risk for scum to claim miller into a closed set-up from the start.

I read intent (not tone as you said in your catch up post), and both Cedrick and Gamma are pinging me from that perspective as a potential 3rd in either team.

Anyway, on with the show.

VOTE: Archwing L-1

[Wh4t]

Going this hard into that on D1, Page 25ish has had less than great results in the past.

Slightly irrelevant but what does this mean? How have things turned out? I'd hypothesize that there would be better chances for town in the following day phases with more information available.

[Wh4t]

I had a dream that I was a muffler last night. I woke up exhausted!"

Wh4. Anytime you want explain this weird read you have on me go right ahead. You came in with some weird obsession. You backed off when I made you look bad and now it’s back.

Tunneling me is hazardous to your health, especially when you don’t have any reason to. You’ve been obsessed with me and it’s super scummy.

I backed off because you had a point about me going for you too early. Since then you've done nothing to sort others and you've made a horribly opportunitic vote on Kiana. Feel free to prove me wrong by contributing to the game in some meaningful way.

[Wh4t]

You're not proving me wrong by continuing to defend yourself. That's awesome that you're reading a book about anti-gravity however don't be surprised if you're VLA and yet have time to read the game, place reckless votes; but you don't have time to give reads/thoughts.

Please learn to see others' perspectives before handing out lessons yourself.

[Wh4t]

I have tried really hard not to get into 1v1s this game but I'm not letting you accuse me of such OTT things.

Like he really was implying that if kian got lynched when i was on v/la it would somehow be my responsibility. What kind of BS is that?

He thinks he’s a cool kid but he’s really a bully. Attacking people who he thinks are easy targets. He’ll get his eventually.

1. You are responsible for a lynch if you voted for it.

2. This is pure AtE. You don't know what I think. Calling me a bully is crossing the line. If you're town, you're making yourself a victim.

[Wh4t]

Your thought process isn’t town. Hasn’t been from the beginning. I’m sorry you rolled scum. I’m even more sorry you played your hand wrong.

Ok good, you've made your mind up and there's no need to pursue further discussion with you.

Good luck getting other reads when you find the time between actively lurking and throwing defensive fits.

[Wh4t]

Dear god. I'll happily scum read Kiana if Arch flips town, I've made that more than clear.

If you can't handle being scum read, you probably shouldn't be playing mafia.

[Wh4t]

Maki how sure are you Kokichi is scum on a scale of 1 to 10?

[Wh4t]

VOTE: Beefster

I've changed my mind about wanting to end the day early. I think this is an avenue worth persuing. Rask will be happy.

[Wh4t]

meaningful way.
Don't care enough to check the V/LA. Cedrick has been helpful either way. This is blatantly false. This is not the scummy part.

@Wh4T: Why did you just dodge Cedrick's attack? Do you agree or disagree that he:

A) Was justified in not giving any good opinions (i.e. V/LA)?
B) Even withstanding, has not contributed enough to the game?

1. How would checking VLA contribute to your read on him?
2. If you don't care enough to check something that could be useful then that confirms to me you aren't following the game properly which explains why you're now asking me redundant questions.
3. I "dodged his attack" because I have been more than clear about my thought process and method so anyone reading his posts and checking my ISO should know that his points do not hold any weight. If you would like me to do the hard work for you and answer every one of his statements I will. He actually reminds me of my other personality when pushed but I cannot tell if that's AI for him or not yet so I would have appreciated some reads from him on others to sort him better. Instead I received an OTT defensive tantrum for pushing a scum read I was unclear on. I provided my reasons, he just doesn't except them which he's entitled to do. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

A/B
Obviously I do not think he has contributed in terms of sorting others. His argument is that he's VLA which is fine but he's admitted that he's reading the game and he even voted for a slot while VLA. As scum I use VLA as an excuse for lurking particularly Day 1 and it doesn't make sense to me that he's VLA and yet has time to read the game/make time consuming defensive arguments but doesn't have time to give even a simple readslist so we can see where he's at. All I've assumed is that he thinks Kiana and I are scum and he town reads Arch/Gamma, apparently asking for more is bullying.

Could you please tell me how you think he's contributed and elaborate on your read of him?

[Wh4t]

Or.. We could all settle for Arch

Kokichi who are your top town reads?

[Wh4t]

Rask, what is your read on Beefster currently?

[Wh4t]

You know what here's what I want to know: you read people off having the same reads, but what initially determines your reads?

Gamma she's already explained this point.

Voting for your scumreads are really the best way to earn town points?

But scum can vote scum. What would stop a scum from just sheeping you to earn townpoints?

I have to definitely reevaluate my read of you after this.

No, obviously not. Can you please improve your reading comprehension.

I awarded townpoints to players who voted for my scumreads before I even entered the game. That confirms they couldn't "copied my answers", so they are getting the correct answers organically and will therefore earn townpoints.

I don't agree that her original system was scummy. What pings me about Kiana was her continuing the system which implies that she was inflexible about her initial reads. I'll admit this could just be a difference in playstyle. I pushed her and then she dropped a very suspicious towntell about not knowing if there was Daytalk or not. When I quoted the OP she didn't comment or readjust her reads on Arch/Rask accordingly so that is where my lingering doubt about her alignment is coming from.

From the interactions with her I've deduced that Arch/Gamma/Rask/Stefan are very unlikely buddies for her should she flip scum.

[Wh4t]

Cedrick could you provide a readslist for clarity please?

[Wh4t]

Cedrick could you provide a readslist for clarity please?

Even if I was caught up you wouldn’t get that from me. I am not a fan of list reads.

How many tickles does it take to make an octopus laugh? Ten-tickles.

That’s the answer to your question.

Ok, well could you compromise and elaborate on your scum read of Kiana and town reads of Gamma/Arch?

If you town read Arch, what do you make of Kokichi?

[Wh4t]

I’m only familiar with 25 letters in the English language. I don’t know why.

Gamma and arch made a few posts about Kiana that I liked enough it motivated me to vote.

I don’t even know if I fully town read gamma or arch, but based on the fall out and reactions I feel they are more likely town than Kiana and you.

Ok so your only reads are Kiana/me scum? You do realise that others made the points about Kiana's playstyle before Arch and Gamma right?

Do you understand how it would be scummy for a player not to want to make stances on town reads? Can you really not see how I could come to the conclusion that you're not contributing to the game? I mean it's fine not to be confident in your reads but then I'd expect to see evidence of you sorting in your ISO. I just see a vote on Kiana based on others opinions and a tunnel on me that hasn't considered my intent at all. I feel the same about Kokichi in terms of not providing any content outside of tunneling Arch yet I can understand where he's coming from on his read of Arch and he's promoting his wagon to others instead of spending time defending himself. You didn't provide an opinion on Kokichi and it seemed like you used not really townreading Arch as an excuse for not having an opinion, but you could have given a stance on his tunnel regardless of your read on Arch.

When you do defend yourself it does feel like you bleed town so I'm hesitant to tunnel you in return, but all my points about why I find you scummy haven't been alleviated by your continuing to blindly tunnel me. Beefster is worse still than your vote on me, because while I can see where you're coming from, beefster came out of nowhere and voted me without reason aside from thinking you're town, which doesn't make me scum.

[Wh4t]

No she hasn't actually. She explaine an issue people had but not what I'm asking about.

The issue was that she was copying other people's reads. She said how she felt about the reads when she made them and awarded points for following her main train of thought. Am I misunderstanding?

[Wh4t]

wow what a fucking shit show of a game.

This isn't helpful.

[Wh4t]

Wow great posting Rask. You and Stefan are now in my neverlynch list. I can get on board with any of those wagons, preferably Arch or Kiana but I want more from Beefster before we end the day; I've given plenty of content to persue a read on me with so we shall see.

[Wh4t]

Wow great posting Rask. You and Stefan are now in my neverlynch list. I can get on board with any of those wagons, preferably Arch or Kiana but I want more from Beefster before we end the day; I've given plenty of content to persue a read on me with so we shall see.

1 post makes him auto town for you?

That's a bit of a misrep of my progression on Rask this game. I started off town reading him because of his interactions around Maki. I moved him down to scum because his behaviour around Arch, when I was finally seeing scum Arch would have made sense as a buddy, even his change of heart on Arch and the vote seemed like a buddy who realised his partner was about to be lynched. His post provided insight into his thoughts that make sense in a way that I feel would be really difficult to fabricate so I'll concede that my observations on his reactions around Arch were overly paranoid and I no longer see a connection there. I am never lynching him because I no longer have any reason to scum read him.

[Wh4t]

I'm not asking you to do any work - I'm asking you to support your own opinion and fight your fucking argument because I'm interested in it. What is your problem?

I'm glad you feel the frustration I'm feeling with our pointless conversation. I'm not wasting my time proving I'm town to anybody, if you can't figure out that I'm town by analysing my posts or asking me for reads/comments on something specifc then the onus is on you.

[Wh4t]

It would help if you pointed out what you think is correct? I'm not at all surprised by the conclusion you've come to by your terrible interrogation attempt of me beforehand, it is very obvious your intent was to vote me and now you're posturing for others so it doesn't look bad, otherwise you would have provided further insight and voted me. I thought you made a good post and your predecessor was pretty towny to me so I'm not OMGusing you and nor would I need to buddy you if I was scum.

[Wh4t]

Hiraki I'll ask you again. What points of Cedrick do you think are correct?

[Wh4t]

VOTE: Hiraki

[Wh4t]

Wh4t? I'm not sure what you're saying Stefan?

[Wh4t]

I don't find it scummy, but if your goal is to vote the whole playerlist on day 1 those 4 are the only once missing.
You have voted 8 of the 13 players today. (if not counting yourself 2/3rds)
I thought that was funny.

In case it hasn't become obvious. This is my method for sorting. I guess it would look strange to others. I will make it clear when I'm ready to lynch.

[Wh4t]

Not to mention he called me town yesterday. Can't think he's scum after that awful play.

Ignore me at your peril.

[Wh4t]

VOTE: Hiraki

Why?

Not to mention he called me town yesterday. Can't think he's scum after that awful play.

Ignore me at your peril.

[Wh4t]

Honestly I don't think Dunn is scum but I have next to no meta to go off. The reactions to his wagon are interesting.

[Wh4t]

Not non-informative just not as useful to me personally, if you lynch any scumread and it's wrong at least it makes you reconsider things and helps you try to poe.

Agree.

[Wh4t]

UNVOTE: I won't be here for a while.

[Wh4t]

Just going to say on skimming the last few pages that a few people are spewing town and I think town is ripping itself apart. Quicklynch beef.

[Wh4t]

Care to be more specific and explain why I should be quicklynched? How is that pro-town?

If I'm understanding your unvote correctly, you are backing out because you'll be pseudo-VLA for a bit. I can't help but wonder if it's misdirection.

Pretty sure this is the second time you've used the misdirection argument. If I've voted/unvoted the majority of players it's pretty safe to say it's not misdirection.

Reasons for how quicklynching you is protown:

1. You're scum.
2. You're not gamesolving in any discernable way.
3. If you're town you haven't made it obvious enough that it would be safe to leave you until LyLo should we get that far.

[Wh4t]

I'm ready for a flip.

VOTE: Kiana

[Wh4t]

Next vote is hammer imo

[Wh4t]

Aren't people supposed to claim at L-1?

[Wh4t]

....

Kiana claim please.

[Wh4t]

I'll admit I'm being lazy but people aren't interested in lynching obv scum beef. Since Rask was super scummy with his unvote I'm going to be annoying and vote elsewhere.

VOTE: Gamma

[Wh4t]

I have to make a thread in mafia discussion on this postgame because every time I've insisted people hated it but I think it's strictly higher percentage d1

What's a higher percentage?

[Wh4t]

Yeah I was the same. I think there comes a point when there's too much info so town loses motivation to sift through the rubbish and scum hunt properly.

[Wh4t]

4. Mafia were given their original town role PMs as safeclaims.

OMFG. Maki is not confirmed town as I thought earlier. Why did nobody tell me?

[Wh4t]

Yeah Kiana is town. No way is she claiming that role as scum when it can be easily proven.

[Wh4t]

Rask backing off after pushing so hard looks pretty informed...since Kiana is town Arch/Rask still look like a thing and it fits that he votes for Beef over Arch. I'll have to analyse all the pushes on her.

[Wh4t]

What do you guys think is scummier? People pushing or people defending?

[Wh4t]

Wh4t: Why did you ignore that Kokichi was treatening to quickhammer?
You said that Beef should be quicklynched, when nobody is voting him.
And then you are at a moment, when thinks are chancing are voting somewhere else.
Arrgh!!!

Sorry to drive you crazy. I didn't ignore that I said I was ready for a flip. I was kind of done with the day tbh I didn't feel like we had made any progress in the last however many pages.

Yes I put out the idea that you guys were all fighting pointlessly so lets lynch the guy not contributing and lurking in the shadows, only to appear every time someone talking about him being scum. I then lost patience and wanted the day ended (for the second time).

I can see why this is driving you nuts. I don't blame you at all. I'm pretty frustrated with how things are going myself.

[Wh4t]

I don't see Raskolnikovs unvote as scummy.
Because of Kokichi I would call this natural.

I can see this but I believe the context of him calling for votes and then unvoting is what made it scummy to me. I will weigh that when factoring in where he sits on my next readslist.

[Wh4t]

also
UNVOTE: bujaber
good intro.
don't really like kiana's intro, but probtown.

town to scum,

{archwing}
{bujaber, koki, stef}
{cedrick, maki}
{wh4t, gamma, brass, kaito, beef} ****
{kiana, rask}

* = null line. above it are slight townleans, nothing more.

Hi Arch, sorry if this has already been addressed. But can you go over how Kiana went from prob town to scum for you? Just hashing out rereads around Kiana's wagon.

[Wh4t]

I'll admit I'm being lazy but people aren't interested in lynching obv scum beef. Since Rask was super scummy with his unvote I'm going to be annoying and vote elsewhere.

VOTE: Gamma

If you said Rask's unvote was scummy,

why the hell would you vote me

?

How are these two things mutually exclusive?

[Wh4t]

Where did the college-aged vampire like to shop? Forever 21.

how about I put kok, rask, and wht4 in a hat and let random decide.

we are lynching kian today

Add beef.

[Wh4t]

even with multiball 2 vigs depend on night actions too much.
If we get 3 deaths I'm lynching in the vigs cause it's multiball LOL

OP says it's not multiball.

[Wh4t]

I mean go ahead lynch Kiana if you think that's the best action I just see no reason why he counterclaimed in the first place
we can say bad town

but not letting 2 vig claims shoot each other is dunb so I'm not moving my vote

Bad town all day. Please don't let him live it down if he shoots me. If he does and town ends up losing I'm blaming Cedrick.

[Wh4t]

If he could just shoot me why the hell did he get so mad?

[Wh4t]

I'll admit I'm being lazy but people aren't interested in lynching obv scum beef. Since Rask was super scummy with his unvote I'm going to be annoying and vote elsewhere.

VOTE: Gamma

If you said Rask's unvote was scummy,

why the hell would you vote me

?

How are these two things mutually exclusive?

They're not but why not vote for the person you actually call scummy in the post? If you had given reasoning why you voted me over him it would have been fine as well but without that it looks really weird.

I think it was pretty clear in my post I was thinking his action was scummy but I was annoying him by removing control of a lynch and voting elsewhere. I voted you because I still don't know how I feel about you.

Rask/Kiana were never a thing until that point. And I still feel it's unlikely Arch and Rask are the same alignment as Kiana unless she enters hard bussing as scum.

[Wh4t]

Ok I can see where Kokichi is coming from about there being a maf doc or RB. I'm lynching Kiana and hoping Cedrick will use his power wisely although I'm not very optimistic.

One more thing you guys need to think about tomorrow is if I'm the only NK you can't assume town has an RB of some kind and town has prevented the scum NK without full claims. Also the scum are more informed as they have fake claims that tell them what we don't have.

I also noted Arch crumbed vig earlier in the game. If there's a cop they need to clear Arch. Stefan did great work looking around Kiana's wagon so build on that for the scum team. I agree that BuJaber was unlikely to be that obvious in defending her but who knows.

VOTE: Kiana

[Wh4t]

It was just from the wrong angle. And I haven't looked at Rask or Archwing.

I disagree that Arch used a crumb. I wish I was a vig is not somethink unnatural.

You could be right. Based on the turbulence around him I think his alignment would give a lot of information to town regardless.

[Wh4t]

Shoot beef lol.

[Wh4t]

Gamma wouldn't be a bad choice either. It bothers me that he's still null to me after so much content.

[Wh4t]

So you're letting him pocket you by scumreading obv town with you?

[Wh4t]

Well I think at this point it doesn't matter if we can get Arch cleared somehow. There's more than enough to solve the game from here so yeah shooting me or Maki would be the safest way to avoid hitting town PRs

[Wh4t]

Shoot me or maki. I don't want you hitting the cop and noone else is obv scum enough to risk it.

What do other people think of this strategy?

[Wh4t]

Too late, what are your thoughts? Is anyone strongly scum enough to you?

[Wh4t]

Bujaber why would scum claim vig of all roles?

[Wh4t]

I feel like they're informed somehow in that they can easily neutralise the shot. Alternatively they thought they could sell a multiball theory like Maki tried to do. Tomorrow it's game over for scum if people put all the pieces together.

[Wh4t]

Yeah I think you're town Arch which would make kokichi look pretty bad but he needs to be reISOd and pushed for reads D2.

[Wh4t]

Selling multiball in a conformed 10:3 scenario?
I scum can do that they would autowin, because they could sell us everythink.

I think scum are less likely to read the OP and propose that idea. I also think Maki not voting Kiana and asking to be vigged was pretty scummy. She knew she wasn't getting vigged today. It felt like posturing for town cred.

[Wh4t]

But both claimes 2-shot btw x-shot.

Yeah that's another point, why fake claim 2-shot?

[Wh4t]

How many fakeclaims have you seen wh4t?

Too many. Literally about 5. I've also fake claimed myself.

[Wh4t]

Worst case scenario we lynch town vig, get 1 NK and and a free scum lynch tomorrow. Not sure why you're doubting Cedrick.

[Wh4t]

Too many. Literally about 5. I've also fake claimed myself.

I used to think it was good because "more complicated roles would require more creativity from scum so likely to be town" but it's been my own experience that scum prefer to claim weakened or modified roles.

2-shot seems excessive. But yeah I guess I did modify my own claim lol.

[Wh4t]

Let me explain it another way.

Vig is only positive utility for town when it shoots scum.
You guys shooting each other guarantees it shoots scum.

Ok let me put it this way:

- scum would rather draw out investigate roles than vigs who would likely be positive utility for scum.
- therefore scum are informed and have something to support their claim.
-lynching scum today is more likely to succeed in removing doubt around the claim and scum dying.
-We can mislynch just like a vig can shoot town, except a vig will have a narrower pool if they can not be prevented at all.

[Wh4t]

Not Arch because he is best cop clear if there is one and we don't want a clear killed by vig.

[Wh4t]

Koki wouldn't make us lynch kiana and leave the vig free to shoot him imo.

[Wh4t]

Bujaber why would scum claim vig of all roles?

oh my

Can you read the surrounding posts and give an opinion please?

[Wh4t]

Eh until pretty recently cedrick just said he'd just be shooting you though.

Good point actually...

[Wh4t]

Why not gamma? Does anyone strongly townread him?

[Wh4t]

Some posts imply you believe kiana more then others imply you believe cedrick.

I believe Cedrick more. You said you wanted to avoid worst case scenario so I tried to illustrate that worst case scenario isn't that bad. 2 town for 1 scum leaves 10 players 8v2 which is still heavily in our favour.

[Wh4t]

If Kiana flips scum Koki spewing there's a possible mafia doc or RB makes no sense as Koki scum.

[Wh4t]

Yes I definitely think so. The game she is referencing Be Yourself Mafia, look at how the amazing scum Cheeky and Mulch interacted with each other. Mulch discredited Cheeky's ability so noone would take her reads seriously, while Cheeky was bussing him D1. Which is what it looks like with Kiana discrediting Gamma but not weighing up his alignment while Gamma recycles everyone's arguments to use against her.

[Wh4t]

For instance why is gamma wasting his vote now on Rask when it's clear town are lynching between the two vigs now?

[Wh4t]

It is much safer for scum to talk yo each other like that with less repercussions than it would with SvT.

[Wh4t]

Because he is one of the Maki/Hiraki/Gamma/BuJabercrowd, they can't all be scum and they haven't accepted that we lynch between the vigs.

BuJaber is the only person who has shown valid reasons for not wanting to. Hiraki is pretty unhelpful in general and Maki/Gamma can be scum.

[Wh4t]

I'd shoot in Beef, Maki, Gamma

[Wh4t]

Hiraki is pretty unhelpful in general

Yeah, I'm unhelpful because you guys have no clue what the fuck NAR is.

Maybe explaining it would be a better way than flipping us off?

[Wh4t]

That's not really taking into account the unbreakable set-up where, if I understand it correctly, there can be a scum doc? Or even a mafia roleblocker, I don't understand what is hard to see about scum claiming vig because they must have counters to a vig? NAR has nothing to do with that.

[Wh4t]

It's also worth considering what happens tomorrow if we lynch outside the vig claims. This also assumes there is only one real vig.

a) we lynch scum > vig is roleblocked | town NK > D2 we still have two vig claims unresolved. 1 scum dead 1 town dead.
b) we lynch town > vig is roleblocked | town NK > D2 we still have two vig claims unresolved. 2 town dead.
c) we lynch scum > vig hits other vig | town NK > D2 2 scum dead. 1 town dead.
d) we lynch town > vig hits other vig | town NK > D2 1 scum down. 2 town dead.

D is the most likely outcome if scum have no way to protect against vig shot. If they have the ability to block the vig the most likely scenario is B, which is pretty bad.

[Wh4t]

Ok fine. UNVOTE:

Who do we lynch then?

[Wh4t]

Lol maybe we quicklynch Kokichi.

[Wh4t]

Gamma vote kiana so we can be done with this.

[Wh4t]

Gamma is scum. Let me know when she's at L-1 again and I'll do the honors.

[Wh4t]

Gamma is scum. Let me know when she's at L-1 again and I'll do the honors.

YOU HAMMER YOU CLAIM SCUM YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT

Wow. Why are you so mad?

[Wh4t]

Lmfao

This also assumes there is only one real vig.

You guys are actually hilarious.

[Wh4t]

Lmfao

This also assumes there is only one real vig.

You guys are actually hilarious.

Oh, okay, my bad, I didn't read that part.

Still why did you take so long to come up with this conclusion then? Always putting me at L-1 and L-2. Ready to hammer. Why would you do that?

In case you couldn't tell by me wanting to end the day early on multiple occasions, I'm an impatient person. When BuJaber pointed out that one way or another your claims will be resolved and letting you two resolve things will draw scum blockers away from investigate PRs I literally thought and posted "ok fine" and was willing to lynch outside the claims.

[Wh4t]

Lol maybe we quicklynch Kokichi.

the omgus is strong with this one

Any other cliche tells you've got to pull out of your ass?

[Wh4t]

I am willing to counterwagon anybody now for self-preservation purposes because it is the best play right now, even as town, and I am not a self-hammerer.

Why don't you wagon the person who's counterclaiming you? Do you think he's more likely the real vig?

[Wh4t]

Can we lynch mafia now or are we still not going to

[Wh4t]

Wh4t: You are at the moment not even on the waggon...

I've said I want hammer

[Wh4t]

There is pretty much no doubt in my mind Gamma is scum. I'm willing to lynch there too.

[Wh4t]

BuJaber made a good point about the likelihood of investigate roles being present if RB type roles are present so it could be worth making scum choose between blocking the vig or possible investigate roles. If the claims are unresolved tomorrow, we'll still have more info if these roles exist.

I'm starting to see the benefits of letting them self resolve now. Another benefit is the vig, if there is no blocker, will not be shooting unknown alignments.

[Wh4t]

If there are investigate roles it's a good idea to check in the pool of suggestions for the vig.

[Wh4t]

We only need the investigators to out themselves if they have a guilty. A guilty narrows our lynch down to two players and this is not optimal for scum to fake.

If we lynch the scum CC today we'll have less info about what roles do exist in our set up. I don't see the need for massclaim tomorrow.

[Wh4t]

You know of my Maki, Gamma, Beef scumspect pool outside Kiana, I'm not surprised that Gamma and Beef are the only ones pushing me lol. Guess it narrows it down for me to Kiana/Gamma/Beef scum team.

[Wh4t]

Yes please lynch me I'm pretty done with this game where only a handful of people are playing usefully and have made any sense. No sarcasm.

[Wh4t]

Guess it narrows it down for me to Kiana/Gamma/Beef scum team.

Then. Vote. Kiana.

I'll vote when I'm ready.

[Wh4t]

Beef is the only person I'm not sure about. Kiana/Gamma lockscum.

[Wh4t]

If W4at doesn't vote by tomorrow I'll be willing to wagon him. This is getting boring.

Why is it on my shoulders when there are other people you could be appealing to, to vote? I have been more than clear about my intent to hammer.

[Wh4t]

Your hesitancy is scummy. Just vote. Unless it's a role related reason you need hammer

I disagree. How would it benefit me as scum to flip flop all over the place and try to facilitate discussion regarding how we deal with the vig claims/going into D2?

[Wh4t]

Your hesitancy is scummy. Just vote. Unless it's a role related reason you need hammer

I disagree. How would it benefit me as scum to flip flop all over the place and try to facilitate discussion regarding how we deal with the vig claims/going into D2?

My frustration is that nobody is willing to budge on their stance and the town is divided on which way to go. Me voting for Kiana isn't going to magically get us more votes.

[Wh4t]

As you wish Rask.

VOTE: Kiana Kaslana L-1

Please somebody hammer.

[Wh4t]

Maki's stances after she offered to sacrifice herself as the vig shot need to be analysed tomorrow. Seems inconsistent with her implicitly agreeing to the Kiana lynch but then her last few posts feel fake "lynch someone else or nolynch" argument. She says to do something else but doesn't offer suggestions or try to get another wagon started.

Stefan you seem to be the analysing expert this game. Your insight into her actions would be appreciated.

[Wh4t]

I'm voting him, don't think you are. Fuck let's end the day already.

Didn't you just say you wanted me to vote and someone to hammer? Wtf are you unvoting for now?

[Wh4t]

Maki's stances after she offered to sacrifice herself as the vig shot need to be analysed tomorrow. Seems inconsistent with her implicitly agreeing to the Kiana lynch but then her last few posts feel fake "lynch someone else or nolynch" argument. She says to do something else but doesn't offer suggestions or try to get another wagon started.

Stefan you seem to be the analysing expert this game. Your insight into her actions would be appreciated.

never agreed to the Kiana lynch one and if you say so again I'll vote you and never get off.

It was implicit when you asked to be shot by the vig, unless the offer was fake?

[Wh4t]

I don't think beef is scum based on interactions with my other suspects (Rask and wh4t)

I refuse to believe you're this bad at mafia. Therefore you're scum.

[Wh4t]

Maki's stances after she offered to sacrifice herself as the vig shot need to be analysed tomorrow. Seems inconsistent with her implicitly agreeing to the Kiana lynch but then her last few posts feel fake "lynch someone else or nolynch" argument. She says to do something else but doesn't offer suggestions or try to get another wagon started.

Stefan you seem to be the analysing expert this game. Your insight into her actions would be appreciated.

never agreed to the Kiana lynch one and if you say so again I'll vote you and never get off.

It was implicit when you asked to be shot by the vig, unless the offer was fake?

Me offering to be vig shot doesn't=me supporting a Kiana lynch

It does because to ask to be shot was directed at Cedrick at the time which would mean lynching Kiana.

[Wh4t]

Except we wouldn't because we'd have all the information of at least 2 flips and people's reactions to either method. I think it's clear that most people believe Cedrick over Kiana, it's a matter of how we want the CC solved tonight.

For everybody arguing against solving the CC with today's lynch, I see few alternatives offered let alone those that have any chance of going through.

Bujaber even though you prefer to lynch elsewhere, can you see that town is at a stalemate? Would you hammer so we don't nolynch?

[Wh4t]

Actually lynching me could work. I think I've seen enough interest. Lynch me --> Vigs sort themselves out --> Lynch Gamma.

[Wh4t]

Well it's not working. Enough people scum read me now that I'm going to be a liability later in the game so I see offering myself as protown in both instances as either getting shot by vig or being lynched so we can move past the stalemate.

I also want to flip so people will take my gamma scum read seriously. I'm going all in.

[Wh4t]

VOTE: Wh4t

Lynch Gamma tomorrow.

[Wh4t]

I'm only unvoting in these scenarios

1. I get to hammer Kiana
2. I get to hammer Gamma

[Wh4t]

Hiraki, Kaito and BuJaber.

You're holding this up. Do we really need to wait 3 days?

[Wh4t]

The whole point of this stupid stall in the game was to decide whether we're lynching inside of the vig claims or out. Both options are now available and noone is listening to/providing any other scum reads. There is more than enough content and VCA to analyse tomorrow so ffs make a choice and stop wasting everybody's time. People tomorrow should look closer at those holding this up and why.

[Wh4t]

So now wh4t is at L-1. Normally we would ask for an intent and then to claim.
But since 3 days 6 hours deadline and the general situation, I would ask for your claim now wh4t.

I'm a Vig. Nah I made it pretty obvious earlier I'm a VT so no big loss.

[Wh4t]

Bujaber had the wool pulled over my eyes I think. I felt like he was waiting for a reason to vote me after holding up the Kiana lynch for so long now he's saying he'd prefer Kiana to me while leaving me at L-1.

[Wh4t]

Lynching hiraki is better than wh4t.
Lynching wh4t is better than lynching vig
Lynching vig is better than no lynch.

Oh misreas someone else. But this pinged me when he now doesn't want to try a Hiraki wagon. Keep an eye on him.

[Wh4t]

Why are you self-voting man

Look at what it's achieved.

Kiana/Gamma/BuJaber.

VOTE: Kiana

[Wh4t]

Why are you self-voting man

Look at what it's achieved.

Kiana/Gamma/BuJaber.

VOTE: Kiana

You think you're clever but you're not.

Convincing argument for why your actions have been terrible today, i.e. thinking I'm scum and pushing my wagon.

[Wh4t]

Why are you self-voting man

Look at what it's achieved.

Kiana/Gamma/BuJaber.

VOTE: Kiana

You think you're clever but you're not.

Convincing argument for why your actions have been terrible today, i.e. thinking I'm scum and pushing my wagon.

I mean even if you're town which you're not, this doesn't work. I self-voted in an old as a way to bait reactions and votes, and guess what? Both people who voted me were town. So no, this type of gambit isn't effective.

There's a reason not everyone on my wagon is scum. You and Kiana just make so much sense, I wanted you lynched before I self voted as your attempt to get me scum read instead of voting Kiana was bad. Both of you trying to pin anything on me when Kiana came back to a CC wad beyond scummy play. Bujaber on the other hand is not happy to help town progress even with all the options available to him, we gave him in or out the vigs, he still wanted to make us wait until deadline as if it would excuse his actions for having as AI substance to them, further he said Hiraki was a better lynch than I yet when a few votes start forming on Hiraki, we suddenly do not have enough time left with 3 days to go when he was trying to look reasonable stalling until deadline.

I had BuJaber as fairly strong until that moment. I thought if scum were off the wagons they would be under a lot of pressure to vote either one and when I gave no reason to stall BuJaber threw all his logic and safe play out the window and was willing to mislynch me for "rushing" him. I mean seriously come on.

[Wh4t]

VOTE: BuJaber

[Wh4t]

Watch out for Kaito the snake getting a free pass.

Wh4t I am never gonna trust you again. Don't play any games with me. You forced me to do this and you know what you were doing. Don't lie about your motives.

VOTE: Kiana

This is straight up AtE. Why is he talking to me like he knows I'm town? Posturing before a hammer if ever I saw it.

[Wh4t]

Arch flip looks like framing for Kokichi.

BuJaber > Maki. I'll be keeping my eye on Raskolnikov.

[Wh4t]

Why would it be framing for me? That's bad logic. Cause I would just try to lynch him today if I was scum. Abd scum would think the same.

He was a massive wagon D1 and he softed PR a couple of times. I think scum were pretty clever killing him and throwing suspicion on those hard pushing him, like you, and eliminating a PR in the process. I'm trying to say it hard clears you.

[Wh4t]

My shoot targets were originally bu, then maki, finally gamma.

I was torn on gamma and I’m sorry for the wrong shot but somebody pushing the cross kill idea is probably scum.

I'll take the blame for this one. You're all good.

[Wh4t]

Hey.

VOTE: Maki Harukawa