Mini 2006: Scummer in this game UPick GAME OVER

[Pine]

Cheeky, I'm not so sure Nico is Town either, with all that entails.

Ali and I don't fully agree on this point.

Pine

(Still catching up on what I missed overnight tho)

[Pine]

Children, play nice.

[Pine]

No no.

Please don't vote Wisdom. He's Town, just tunneling. Knock it off.

[Pine]

We haven't discussed it, but I was thinking you, fren.

Any attempts to give me stuff gets refunded apparently.

Hmm. I was under the impression it would only matter if we were given back something we'd handed out.

In that case, one of the Masons. Bee, maybe. Fitting.

[Pine]

@Mod: Immediate emergency V/LA. Lady Pine and I about to leave for the hospital to welcome baby Pinecone! Yayyyy! I may or may not check in over the next couple of days, depending on how often I can/need to take a break from being a new dad. Posting should stabilize over the next week or so.

Break out the cigars!

[Pine]

UNVOTE:

Hi all

I am thirty+ pages behind. My deal with Alisae was always that e would drive D1, and that was before Pinecone came nine days early. Mom and baby are healthy and happy, by the way, and we are exhausted but unable to sleep due to euphoria.

{Wis!slot, RedFlavor!slot, Kokichi, Maria}

My gut says scum are mostly or entirely in there, but I’m outdated. I remain on V/LA with little desire to spend what time I have here.

Everyone do me a favor - stop being assholes

[Pine]

Pine I expect better from you tbh so I think you're scum.

Hey fuck off

I just became a dad

You and this game are so low on my priority list over the last couple and next few days you might as well be subterranean

[Pine]

You people drove Alisae, one of the more resilient and flexible operators on site, to abandon me here. Frankly I’m inclined to burn it all down, or at least take my toys and go home.

I’m not going to do that to Cheetory though, and I don’t want to put my replacement in that position. So we’re stuck with one another

[Pine]

Well...fine then

The read on you is mostly inherited from Ali tbh, but I trust eis meta. I’ll concede to give you a fair shake of my own, happy?

[Pine]

Ooooh

This explains much

Also discard whatever Ali said lately. I’m reading fresh and without the salt

[Pine]

Not any time soon I’m not. I’m probably just going to start from the top, and 111 pages of ass and trash are not appealing

[Pine]

Anyone faking masons has a prod dodge
(48 hours)

(expired on 2018-05-12 21:50:21)


To rescind without it factoring heavily into my reads.

Anyone rescinding after that point is a scum claim.

This post is kind of a scumclaim.

I gave a pass to the scumplaining earlier today because I’m frustrated with the situation, but this looks a LOT like signaling to scumbuddies to abort their gambit and an effort to help them de-escalate.

[Pine]

Lovebird
Nico
Momomen
Cheeky
A town lean on Sudo I should probably think about a bit more cause I haven't read most posts in question people suspect.

Honestly give me some time.

I've barely been in this game other than the first couple of pages, and Alisae was so strung out and stressed over this e was playing wildly.

When we get Pinecone home and she starts eating properly, I'll be able to sit down and jam session some really solid content that will let you get a good read independent of Ali. At that point, if you're still not sure, well, it's my fault.

[Pine]

Keep in mind Jingle is a fucking reviewer.

He gave scum no night chat before to make us seem town.

Scum masons is not outside Jingle’s repertoire.

Stop this. Scum masons is not a matter of balance, it's a matter of bastard.

Mason = Town

Period

Beyond any kind of question. It's a literal mod-confirmed role.

The only way that there is a scum mason is if it's a bastard game, and we know it's not.

So shut the fuck up with your obfuscation about the Mason claims.

Most likely, one pair is lying and is scum. I suspect they're your partners, and I'm starting to think that the Occam's answer is Nico/Mastina. Nico messaged us about Masons before Mastina gave the green light, and now she's doing everything she can to keep up the pretense, because failing to do so is an instant double-lynch. Bee and Lovebird, on the other hand, played the way I expect Masons to play - they kept their cool and only claimed when it became necessary and proper.

[Pine]

How about now, Bee? 2830 supports my read on 2811. I'm just tired and responded to your 2825 first without finishing the rest of the thread, or I'd have latched onto that first.

Haha

"Latched on"

It's funny because Pinecone isn't

I am tired

[Pine]

Also I don't necessarily have a problem with Town Masoncop. It's the kind of questionable-utility role which would balance some of the weird power we've seen claimed.

Also also, if Mom is a Mason cop, why don't we just let her investigate Nico and see if she's lying?

If she's lying, we lynch Nico. If she then flips Mason, we lynch Mom for being a scum Masoncop and get confirmed Mastina in the bargain.

That's like.......win-win-win-win.

[Pine]

Scum Masons involve the mod confirming something to be true which is a lie

That is the definition of bastard

[Pine]

Game Name:

Scummer in this Game UPick

Flavor/Mechanics:

At some point before the game fills, you must give me a list of three other players who are signed up for the game. I will then divvy out people [repeats are allowed at my own discretion] and design a setup based around the picks. If there are hydrae, you may pick individual heads. I might do some dumb flavour too, we'll see after I've got the setup done!

Your Experience:

Paint Mafia Mania! : viewtopic.php?f=56&t=73434

Current Modding Commitments:

None

Reviewed By:

Jingle will help me review the setup when it's ready!

Back-Up or Co-Mod:

I'll make sure I have someone if something comes up.

Number of Players:

13

Hydrae:

Ya

Restrictions:

Nah

Is it possible your game has any of the following bastard roles or mechanics?

cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game

Nope.

[Pine]

Scum Masons are not a thing

Mom's masoncop is semiprovable, which makes the Masons semiprovable

VOTE: OntheMark

This is the best choice for today

[Pine]

Mason is inherently Town.

By definition.

"Scum masons" who share a PT are just called Mafia

[Pine]

Can't tell if Town!OTM is conflating Neighbor and Mason

Or if Scum!OTM is being intentionally obtuse to muddy the waters.

Leaning the latter.

[Pine]

EVeryone agrees nico is town, so for this scumastina narrative being pushed nico would need to be gambitting.

Also, no it doesn't considering it results in no net less because I'm loud as she can and did confirm, so again, I can only be scum with mastina who can only be scum with nico and this is an awful push from you so fuck it

VOTE: OntheMark

you're a logical player so you don't get away with awful logic

Finally a fucking hammer.

The resistance to this makes me confident we're getting a redflip here.

[Pine]

thats l1 lol

Goddamnit

I knew that, I was hoping OTM didn't.

Y U spring trap

[Pine]

Probably. Fakehammers are almost never successful.

It's the 'almost' that's important, though.

[Pine]

I see where you're coming from. Not everyone has the discipline to ignore AtE in apparent twilight. Sticking to your story in twilight/fake twilight is NAI. Only scumgaveup and Town providing important info (i.e. I tracked Momo to the kill N3) is relevant.

[Pine]

Personally the first thing I do when a hammer is announced on me is hand-count myself to make sure. Again, though, not everyone has the discipline.

...

...

[Pine]

Shit. Well, there goes the Nico/Mastina/OTM theory. I knew it couldn't be that easy, but I hoped.

Nico's case is almost lockstep with my thoughts on OTM

[Pine]

OTM wagon stalled. Shocker. Almost like there's a substantial minority who wants nothing to do with lynching one of their own.

[Pine]

To clarify on 3, if she genuinely believed we are scum masons, she would be pushing me as well, cos from her point of view, I would be scum trying to mislynch her as well. Ask yourself: has she genuinely pushed me since she came in?

I have more on Mastina than you. I don’t know you.

So yes I push Mastina because she can’t be allowed to control the game as scum

You saw it. She admitted it.

@OTM And yes, I call you a she, because your main is apparently Mathblade, someone Titus says is her 'sister', and 'sisters' aren't male by default....

Go fuck off

I am a trans male. My pronouns are mine.

And if you continue to call me she I will fucking blacklist you from any games I play in ever. Mastina fucking knows this and if you were actually a mason and talking with her she would have told you.

And I already addressed your post. I have been attacking Mastina because I know her style more

This is damn close to becoming personal and I am doing my damndest not to sink to the level you are

I said my pronouns are he or they. You don’t control my narrative I do.

Preach, brother. I feel you.

That said, as much as I support you and your right to control your narrative and identity, there are elements of AtE mixed in there.

I mean, by all means, zealously defend your identity. I would if someone continued to misgender or otherwise misidentifying me despite my insistence otherwise. I'm just sensing a second agenda in this case.

Have you considered declaring your pronoun in your profile? I know I always struggle to infer when it's not listed, though I use neutral pronouns until I'm sure.

[Pine]

Whatever Titus said a year and a half ago is irrelevant.

He is today asking you to call him by masculine pronouns. Your refusal to is a dick move. Show some respect and human decency.

[Pine]

Also, Mastina hasn't been answering direct questions in other (nongame) threads, so it's possible she's just not current on this.

I am regrettably unconvinced that this isn't scum theater. Bad scum theater. Possibly one-sided "please don't do this" scum theater.

[Pine]

VOTE: NotMafia

Da fuq

Blatant self-preservation. You're the next biggest wagon.

[Pine]

Is OTM lynched yet?

The degree of stubborn thickheadedness in this thread is disheartening.

[Pine]

LLD

You should vote Mark

Just to spite him.

[Pine]

LLD

You should vote Mark

Just to spite him.

Mark is confirmed town to me, as far as I can tell.

Should I vote you?

A reminder that with how little time left we have, if I vote you it never moves again.

Explain the confirmation to me and I'll vote RF with you. He's been on my list for a while.

FWIW, we had you as scum too, but your recent attitude strikes me as very Town!you.

As for voting me, *shrug*. It'd be a shame to waste a vote you can't easily move.

[Pine]

Mostly because a lot of you are playing really toxic. Please don't act like you're the victim here.

[Pine]

Maria gets it <3

[Pine]

As did mine. However, no one's innocent here.

[Pine]

Sigh

Fine

LLD, can you help me with your clear on OTM?

[Pine]

He.

We covered this.

Also, that doesn't help. Why should I trust your judgment blindly here? I want to compromise with you in the interest of seeing a redflip, but you've gotta help me out here.

[Pine]

As did mine. However, no one's innocent here.

I'm aware.

and

Good. I could really use a lock town Dino rn.

Me too

Math

Please be the Dino we need

[Pine]

Hey math

Welcome to my world.

I'm sure that if I weren't in baby bliss and trying to have a heart for cheetory's sake I would've fucked off like half of the other players.

[Pine]

remind me why my slot is townreading you because it looks like i'm not and i'm just locking you out of the lynchpool for some arbitrary reason

HAHAHAHAHA

the mod just sent me something he initially forgot to

and it clarifies this exact post

lolmod

so never mind then

Yeah Cheeky messaged us. We cool?

[Pine]

Math, people know we are beeboy, that we have the odd/even version of the same role, and that it's inventor-based. I have also indicated that it makes no godly sense in the hands of scum. This is the basis of our mutual TR.

They don't know which of us is odd/even or what kind of inventions we have.

[Pine]

I'm going to trust your RF read.

You want to jam and break this open?

[Pine]

Maria please don't go

We need all the competent people we can get

[Pine]

Math I was kind of hoping your fresh eyes would help organize my own shit

Regardless, I jumped the gun on a jam. I have to take Pinecone and Lady Pine to a lactation appointment, so I'll be spotty for the next two hours or so

[Pine]

Ugh, Christ

Both of you

And everyone else

Stop with the toxicity

Play nice

Or I may start reporting unnecessary personal attacks even if I'm not the target

Be adults

[Pine]

Yall been posting up a goshdarn storm which totally blows but I get it. Could someone who has been paying attention gimmie a summary of the particularly important stuff that has happened in that time, like claims etc.? I'm gonna get reading but I'd still appreciate that so I can get some participation in before the day ends.

heads up, you're not gonna get this out of this playerlist, i already tried

the only people that are in a headspace to do so are

- someone who has claimed flipless (fucking lol)

- someone who is known for good scumplay

Aww, thanks buddy.

I'll get a full readslist and assessment up before midnight EDT (~5 hrs)

I really want to lynch OTM for an avalanche of reasons, but I don't know why LLD harddefends unless there's a reason. I don't think scum!LLD does that, but I'm also not 100% convinced of town!LLD's read; she can be deceived. Not willing to vote any Mason or Mason cop today. Not willing to vote Mathdino or LLD today, Momo looks Townish enough to get a pass. Trusting Mathdino's RF read.

I think that leaves Maria and Kokichi, both of whom Alisae suspected iirc, though that's a cursory glance through playerlist. Hard to keep track of replacements when phoneposting.

UNVOTE:

Leaning towards Kokichi rn, he's useless on top of scummy.

[Pine]

Oh I missed Nahdia's post

VOTE: lovebird

Sold

Also now hella susp of Mom

[Pine]

I am beeboy. My understanding is that beeboy is split between you and I, Mathdino.

[Pine]

Mod, this goes without saying, but extension for the replacement spam please. Deadline reset to 96 hours from the last replace in would be my suggestion because there's been quite a few, but adding 48 hours works too IG.

I endorse this product and/or service

[Pine]

COMPLETE AND TOTAL UNKNOWNS: MariaR, Kokichi Oma

MIGHT I POINT OUT.
THESE TWO HAVE BEEN TWO OF THE MOST CONSISTENT SCUMSPECTS IN THE ENTIRE GAME RIGHT BEHIND WISDOM/MATHBLADE.

AND YET IN SPITE OF THAT.

THEY ARE THE TWO PLAYERS WHO WE KNOW THE LEAST ABOUT.

WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.

Finally, Mastina and I are on the same page.

I want to lynch all of {Lovebird, Kokichi, Maria, Nahdia} and see what flips. Maaaaybe that order.

[Pine]

inb4 we're really still masons

[Pine]

^This is not a townpost

[Pine]

Actually, I'm getting cold feet on Lovebird.

Her story checks out. I ISOed her and beeboy to show that she softed or claimed Masons first, but she comes off as kind of confused but receptive when he says it. Even when pressed, she never actually confirms the masonry, but rather says it isn't pro-Town to talk about it.

That...actually kind of checks out as her having a strong TR (which he was) fake Masons with her. She doesn't want to blow up his spot, but also doesn't want to get trapped in the claim.

I mean, it'd be really easy to lynch Lovebird for this, but beeboy was the aggressor in this gambit. He even talked wistfully early in the thread about faking a Mason claim some time ago.

VOTE: Kokichi

This is what I'd like. Table the Lovebird/Beeboy mess for now.

[Pine]

Actually, I'm getting cold feet on Lovebird.

Her story checks out. I ISOed her and beeboy to show that she softed or claimed Masons first, but she comes off as kind of confused but receptive when he says it. Even when pressed, she never actually confirms the masonry, but rather says it isn't pro-Town to talk about it.

That...actually kind of checks out as her having a strong TR (which he was) fake Masons with her. She doesn't want to blow up his spot, but also doesn't want to get trapped in the claim.

I mean, it'd be really easy to lynch Lovebird for this, but beeboy was the aggressor in this gambit. He even talked wistfully early in the thread about faking a Mason claim some time ago.

VOTE: Kokichi

This is what I'd like. Table the Lovebird/Beeboy mess for now.

Not a chance in hell.

I refuse to believe that lovebird is town when the mason claim only caused pages and pages of headaches.

That has nothing to do with me

Actually, yes it does. On a townflip, you and I are going to have words post-game, missy.

On a scumflip, well, all's fair.

[Pine]

Mathdino I believe you were on the money with {Maria, Kokichi}

I feel especially strong about Kokichi.

Just ignore OTM. You're right, he's playing by pure emotion, but those emotions are frustration and stubbornness., which is Townish.

Lynch Kokichi with me. Maybe there's a vig which will make our lives easier.

[Pine]

Recall also that LLD is hard-defending OTM with a role-related reason. I don't see scum!LLD doing that, which means Town!LLD actually has information.

[Pine]

Just ignore OTM

We're regaining functionality.

You, me, LLD, Lovebird, probably Nahdia, Mastina if she can focus. That's the Townbloc that's going to turn this shitshow around.

It starts with Kokichi and Maria.

Hell, I'll even fall in line with you because I think both Kokichi and Maria are scum.

VOTE: Maria

Getting dragged into OTM's petulance just perpetuates the problem. Be pro-Town

[Pine]

*shrug*

I've got a provably-Town role. Think what you want, bruv.

[Pine]

CASE ON MARIA:

+For starters, has done practically nothing to gamesolve.
+Has focused on discrediting reads against you rather than scumhunting.
+Alisae spotted connections and possible support between Kokichi and Maria, to the point where e thought they were Masons until confronted. Not a good person to be connected to.
+Lots and lots and lots of nearly-contentless posting. Enough to remain present and current, but just fades back into unhelpfulness when not being paid attention to.
+Consistent undermining of Masons. All of them. Suspecting one pair and not the other is fine, but Maria pushed all of them and the Mason cop who would help sort it.
+Consistent buddying of Alisae with some dismissal of me; clearly working an angle there.
+Immediate buddying to OTM (2737), immediate dismissal of me when Ali repped out (2739-2743).
+Just absolute

constant

hard-defending of Kokichi, with zero reason given. Seriously, I can't find a one.
+I had to get to post 3048 before I found anything AT ALL from Maria resembling a case, reasoning, or an effort to genuinely push someone. Even then, it's one of the Masons. And it ended up being one of the confirmed ones. And also a piss-poor weak push anyway.
+The largest burst of activity or effort in the entire game from Maria came from Mathdino's replace-in. Immediate efforts to discredit and drag conversation negative and off-topic.
+Practically her only stated reasons for anything here are setup spec, and frankly one-dimensional setup spec.

We're only a couple of days away from an already-extended deadline.

Barring Kokichi, I feel Maria is the best lynch.

[Pine]

CASE ON MARIA:

+For starters, has done practically nothing to gamesolve.
+Has focused on discrediting reads against you rather than scumhunting.
+Alisae spotted connections and possible support between Kokichi and Maria, to the point where e thought they were Masons until confronted. Not a good person to be connected to.
+Lots and lots and lots of nearly-contentless posting. Enough to remain present and current, but just fades back into unhelpfulness when not being paid attention to.
+Consistent undermining of Masons. All of them. Suspecting one pair and not the other is fine, but Maria pushed all of them and the Mason cop who would help sort it.
+Consistent buddying of Alisae with some dismissal of me; clearly working an angle there.
+Immediate buddying to OTM (2737), immediate dismissal of me when Ali repped out (2739-2743).
+Just absolute

constant

hard-defending of Kokichi, with zero reason given. Seriously, I can't find a one.
+I had to get to post 3048 before I found anything AT ALL from Maria resembling a case, reasoning, or an effort to genuinely push someone. Even then, it's one of the Masons. And it ended up being one of the confirmed ones. And also a piss-poor weak push anyway.
+The largest burst of activity or effort in the entire game from Maria came from Mathdino's replace-in. Immediate efforts to discredit and drag conversation negative and off-topic.
+Practically her only stated reasons for anything here are setup spec, and frankly one-dimensional setup spec.

We're only a couple of days away from an already-extended deadline.

Barring Kokichi, I feel Maria is the best lynch.

To pre-empt questions or AtE defenses, this has nothing to do with Ali's reads except where stated. I went through Maria's ISO line by line over the last hour. I feel it is a solid case independent of Ali's hydra comments on Discord regarding soulreading Claire as scum.

[Pine]

This is the only direct response I intend to make to this line of questioning. It has the potential to spiral pretty uselessly.

+For starters, has done practically nothing to gamesolve.
How have I not game solved when I have my lynch pool all figured out. What is game solving to you pine? Perhaps we solve in different manners but I feel like I've solved my own way

You may have your lynch pool all figured out, but you haven't explained your reasoning practically at all, and you have not engaged in the group effort to sort and solve. Simply posting your own lynch preferences unsupported is not gamesolving.

+Has focused on discrediting reads against you rather than scumhunting.
Reads against who? I've actively changed my pool around and scumhunted this is just false

Ah, sorry for lack of clarity. By the second line, I changed my response from being directed to you (Maria) to a general address. I missed this change of subject. I am pointing out that roughly 1/4-1/3 of your entire ISO is pouting or whining about people's unsupported suspicion of you. Town generally doesn't focus that exclusively on defense.

+Alisae spotted connections and possible support between Kokichi and Maria, to the point where e thought they were Masons until confronted. Not a good person to be connected to.
I defended Kokichi because I don't think he ate'd like that as scum I never once said we were masons.

Alisae thought you were Masons, I didn't say you were claiming it. And incidentally, that reasoning you just gave was more than you ever gave before across half a dozen or so posts hard-defending Kokichi. Too little, too late.

+Lots and lots and lots of nearly-contentless posting. Enough to remain present and current, but just fades back into unhelpfulness when not being paid attention to.
Okay fair point but how is this scummy you've seen me filler post in other games where we town I'm a reactive poster I like people posting towards me otherwise I fade until I see something I want to comment on

It's always scummy, from everyone. Just because you've done it before as Town doesn't get you a pass this game, because you also do it as scum. It's meta-null, and generally scummy.

+Consistent undermining of Masons. All of them. Suspecting one pair and not the other is fine, but Maria pushed all of them and the Mason cop who would help sort it.
Correct if we have masons the play here is bad you should never fully out a mason pair I don't believe any of them. I think the play here is bad and the Mason cop is more then likely a scum role you don't leave people alive for claim you vote based on scumreads and I sr mon idc about the claim

This is again more explanation than you've given in the past, and it's still piss poor. The point stands that you've undermined and pushed practically every Mason claim, particularly Mastina.

+Consistent buddying of Alisae with some dismissal of me; clearly working an angle there.
I don't think I even buddied alisae at all I was pushing your slot for almost the full early game but I am friends with Ali so yes I'm gonna be more willing to listen to Ali then you because Ali can read me well where you have ml'd me in the few games we played together

Fair, though kind of irrelevant.

+Immediate buddying to OTM (2737), immediate dismissal of me when Ali repped out (2739-2743).
You didn't try to engage with me and of course I'm buddying OTM Wisdoms replace out was towny as fuck and has been obv town

I didn't engage with you because I was in the hospital getting my hand squeezed off during contractions and helping my wife deliver our child. It was strawman then, and strawman now.

+Just absolute constant hard-defending of Kokichi, with zero reason given. Seriously, I can't find a one.
He doesn't play this way as scum the self vote the way he's acting he outright doesn't I'd bet the game on it.

Mmkay. You've defended him more effectively in your rebuttal than in your entire ISO up to this point, and all you've done is repeat the same weak point twice.

+I had to get to post 3048 before I found anything AT ALL from Maria resembling a case, reasoning, or an effort to genuinely push someone. Even then, it's one of the Masons. And it ended up being one of the confirmed ones. And also a piss-poor weak push anyway.
If you want a case on someone ask. I'm not one to randomly case someone I can state reads but I like getting prompted to do something or do live interaction

In other words, you don't like to scumhunt. Got it.

+The largest burst of activity or effort in the entire game from Maria came from Mathdino's replace-in. Immediate efforts to discredit and drag conversation negative and off-topic.
You can stop with that because I would never use a out of game issue to push an agenda in the game and I ask you don't try to act like I would that's just disrespectful and a low blow

I concede this as a low blow and apologize for it.

+Practically her only stated reasons for anything here are setup spec, and frankly one-dimensional setup spec.
fair

Touche.

TL;DR - Maria's rebuttal is kind of like her ISO. Minimalist, focused on avoiding suspicion for herself, and pretty empty of content.

[Pine]

Bloc

No k

[Pine]

Awesome, do you plan to explain how? Ever?

[Pine]

^This is not a townpost

Actually.

To the contrary.

This reignites the townread I had on the slot.

Lovebird is hard town from this.

Yeah, I got there on my own.

[Pine]

I’m with you, mastina. My only caveat is that I’m giving LLD the benefit of the doubt for now on OTM after battling for his lynch for dozens of pages.

Maria or Kokichi today, the other tomorrow.

I suggest Maria.

[Pine]

I’m currently voting Maria, mastina.

Hop on and let’s get this wagon some momentum.

[Pine]

[Pine]

oh you bish

[Pine]

That is specifically a bastard game. Does not apply.

[Pine]

I mean come on. Just in roles flipped before endgame, I see a Jester, a Cult Leader, a Mafia Mason, and a Mafia Usurper.

That actually weakens your case, OTM.

[Pine]

I mean come on. Just in roles flipped before endgame, I see a Jester, a Cult Leader, a Mafia Mason, and a Mafia Usurper.

That actually weakens your case, OTM.

It is my case.

People do it and it’s a thing.

Mastina said she never saw it.

It

Was

A

Bastard

Game

With

Moderator

Lies

And

Midgame

Alignment

Changes

It

Does

Not

Count

[Pine]

I don't want to join a wagon that has Yume and Mastina

Yayyy!

Emotion-based anti-Town behavior! How EXCITING!

[Pine]

They're uncountered Masons who stuck to their guns when there was massive incentive to abandon a gambit

They're Masons

[Pine]

This game is like bashing my head against a wall.

While drunk off my ass.

And being violated with a rusty spork.

[Pine]

Maria's AtE makes me want to not vote her.

This is dangerous.

Kill it with fire.

[Pine]

Running out of time.

Maria is the only wagon with legs.

Mod: Can we get a vote count?

[Pine]

VOTECOUNT 1.33

Not_Mafia [2]

- Lady LambdaDelta, Momrangal

OnTheMark [2]

- NicoRobin, MOMOMEN

Momrangal [4]

- Nahdia, Lovebird, Kokichi Oma, MariaR

mastina [1]

- Not_Mafia

Lovebird [1]

- OnTheMark

MariaR [3]

- Pine, MathDino, mastina

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
You have (expired on 2018-05-19 18:00:00) to do so.

Nico and N_M moved onto Maria (L-2)

Nahdia unvoted without casting a new one (sus af at this point) and Kokichi is for some reason self-voting.

Deadline in around 9 hours.

[Pine]

Hmmm yeah, it's my fault that the mod wasn't counting your EoD unvote, and I'm scummy for finding it suspicious.

Riiiight

[Pine]

Mastina, did you like my gift?

[Pine]

I plan to, Nico. I’m giving OTM the requested 24 hours.

Actually, wait.

Nico.

If you are Masons with Mastina, prove it to me.

What invention did I give her last night.

Quickly. No consultation. I know you’re online, and I know Mastina would have mentioned it.

Now.

[Pine]

No I did not

VOTE: Nico

Now I’m worried that I gave the rolecop to the wrong side.

[Pine]

Mathdino and I are Inventor ENABLERS.

I received and was able to use the invention-gift in one go. It makes sense that Mastina would have received and used it immediately.

[Pine]

OTM we covered this yesterday. We softed something and Cheeky used her 1-shot message to confirm her role to us. We are both Beeboy, and are even/odd versions of Inventor Enablers.

[Pine]

Inventor DESIGNATOR, sorry. Checked role PM to make sure I had it straight.

[Pine]

Shut up, Nico.

[Pine]

Shut up, Nico.

Nahdia's right, this was ill-considered and uncouth.

Nico, I don't do promises like that, as you flipping Town in no way proves ANYTHING with regard to OTM. I think OTM is scummy on his own merit, but am reserving judgment for LLD's alleged mechanical clear.

More than that, though, I DO NOT do threats, and I DO NOT do blackmail. Back off.

[Pine]

Playing this game is like trying to do calculus with death metal blaring in one ear and off-key country music in the other.

And I'm not that awesome at calculus to begin with.

[Pine]

Allegedly* willing to die to confirm self. Also known as nothing.

Additionally, even if Cheetory were to descend from on high and say, "Yo, Nico and Mastina are Masons, bruv," it doesn't actually say fuck-all about OTM.

[Pine]

UNVOTE:

I'm being dumb.

Momrangel being an actual Town Masoncop means Nico and Mastina are essentially confirmed already.

Waiting on LLD and Mastina to explain themselves. If the yelling and foot-stomping in this thread could diminish, I'd be grateful. It's all I can do to not just policy the fuck out of both of you.

[Pine]

because you have 0 charisma and even when your arguments are correct you resort to AtE to push them

cut the fucking victim complex

i'm aware you want to lynch OTM

i'm trying to get some discussion going beyond your stupid 1v1

Thank you.

[Pine]

Okay, here are the facts I am working with...

Momrangel makes Mastina and Nico Town.

Our role interaction makes MathDino town.

I trust MathDino’s read of RedFlavor, and was recently given a SUPER SEKRIT reason to be disinterested in a NM lynch anyway.

Lovebird is Town by my own read.

This leaves Nahdia, LLD, Momomen, and OTM.

Still outstanding is LLD’s promised clear on OTM.

My gut is saying Nahdia and Momomen. Pure gut/PoE read, honestly.

[Pine]

Also, Nico/OTM is feeling increasingly TvT. I feel either of them as scum would have found some way to de-escalate by now.

[Pine]

I find that satisfactory, contingent on LLD!Town.

As has been said repeatedly, Cheeky/Dino is the counterpart to my own role as Inventor Designators. I give protectives, he gives investigatives. I've essentially seen his full ability roster, and I don't see it as plausibly scum.

Dino is lockTown.

[Pine]

I find that satisfactory, contingent on LLD!Town.

As has been said repeatedly, Cheeky/Dino is the counterpart to my own role as Inventor Designators. I give protectives, he gives investigatives. I've essentially seen his full ability roster, and I don't see it as plausibly scum.

Dino is lockTown.

First off, how do you mean by "seen"?

And second off, if that's the case, tell him to stop doing stupid scummy shit.

I was given my choice of his slate of inventions. They're a rough mirror of my own.

[Pine]

Honestly, LLD's flip won't clear OTM, just make me trust her.

I'd much rather see Nahdia flip. I'm not comfortable with a slot that initiated a fake!Mason gambit.

I think Momomen might be the right choice though.

Thoughts, Dino?

[Pine]

Investigative...

and it's mod confirmed, Pine? 100%?

Because I keep looking at my fucking role PM, and....

Odd night, making someone an inventor to give a third person one of three weak investigatives.

I don’t think it’s incompatible with another investigator.

And yes, the list given to me by Cheetory matches what I was given to believe by Cheeky.

[Pine]

then claim your role if you wanna 1v1 so hard

Please no

[Pine]

Hunh.

I went back to check the message from Cheeky, and opened the one from Nico accidentally (same subject line). I'd forgotten a part of what Nico revealed to me.

Nico-Mastina is 100%, defend-to-the-death locktown.

Doesn't make me *desire* a policy of Nico any less, but self control I guess.

PE: Fair, LLD. I'd give you a day deadline yourself, but I'm feeling you as Town now. I'd give you the protective tonight to prove myself to you, but I'd rather it was used ON you rather than BY you. Let's lynch Nahdia. Alisae was TRing Beeboy, but e left before the Mason gambit was revealed. That shit strikes me as super hinky.

VOTE: Nahdia

[Pine]

And let's lock up this argument right here.

Townbloc Pine, LLD, Mathdino, Mastina. OTM and Nico are Town too, but don't get a vote until they stop being dumbasses.

[Pine]

Lovebird may come too, I think.

[Pine]

Well, depending on what it is, Momomen (slot) is a good choice. N_M also a solid pick.

[Pine]

Oh. Hmm. I forgot about the flipless claim.

Momomen is the definite best choice for an investigative. Kinda hoping Mastina rolecopped them.

[Pine]

Rolecop on Momomen is not alignment indicative.

He can still be scum flipless.

We need a true cop on momomen.

I’d be willing to buy he’s flipless regardless of alignment.

Role may be independent of alignment most of the time, but there are a bunch of roles which only go to scum, and vice versa. If someone rolecops as a Miller, for example, you're pretty sure they're Town. If someone rolecops as a Godfather, they're scum (I know there's been a recent rash of Town Godfather shenanigans, but c'mon.)

Also, if a rolecop returns something that doesn't indicate flipless, we know Momo is lying scum.

Rolecop is hardly foolproof, but it might get lucky.

Mason Cop doesn’t necessitate masons just saying

It's a pretty goddamn safe bet.

PE: Oh hey Mastina. Yeah I believe all that.

[Pine]

So OTM. Let me get this straight.

Mastina and Nico are claimed Masons

With no counter

Who claimed on page two

And didn't back down when other Masons claimed

Said Masons now being busted

And there's a confirmed Town Mason-Cop

And they're claiming the vig kill on flipped scum

Plus their claims made a TON of sense once the obfuscation was pulled back
>>>>>Yes, I know there's an irregularity with Nico, but she fullclaimed to me in the one-shot message, and it gets cleared up

Also Mastina continues to bleed Town

And her Asceticizer claim makes no fucking sense when you have a full Ascetic on the scumteam.

........but sure. Tell me more about your mostly-OMGUS scumread.

Tunnel better in the future please.

[Pine]

Mastina, control your partner, please. I'm aware of reasons we can't policy her, but it's super tempting.

[Pine]

Mastina, control your partner, please. I'm aware of reasons we can't policy her, but it's super tempting.

You want to policy me because I scumread OTM?

I want to policy you for being obnoxious. And, apparently, for being the kind of player who only reads posts where someone is saying something they don't like. If you'd read the post immediately before that, I threw the book at OTM defending you.

Be more third-grader-ish.

[Pine]

As I have said, I think your dispute is TvT.

[Pine]

1 on

VOTE: LLD

why aren't we lynching this slot again?

Because Mathdino is telling us not to?

Pine are you really gonna hold me to that one day thing because I hunger for blood.

Ehhh. The read was from MathDino.

However, I have a COMPELLING reason to think Not_Mafia is Town, which I would STRONGLY PREFER to keep to myself. An action was performed on me N1 which, the more I think about it, virtually confirms N_M to me. I would very much like not to elaborate.

So yes. I'm holding you to it.

I think our best options today are {Nahdia, Momomen}. Given Momo's claim, I'd prefer the former.

Mastina, you have one shot to convince me why you're TRing Nahdia, because I don't see it.

[Pine]

A mechanics reason is all I need.

Also, bloc is spelled without a 'k'.

[Pine]

You have one small reason to mechanically suspect her.

I have a dozen reasons to clear her, some of which are deafeningly strong.

[Pine]

Why bother? You don't actually seem bound by logic in this game.

But fine. Cheeky and Mathdino have both been playing their Towngames, trying to sort and solve. There have been a bunch of easy low-hanging opportunities they've passed on because they weren't right. You want the most recent? It would be *crazy* easy to wagon the fuck out of you, but Dino's not going for it. Hell, I could probably be convinced. LLD is your only real defender, and her read on you is based solely on whatever you sent her. So the fact that Dino's not interested means something.

There's more, but I'm not going to go back over 160 pages to assemble a comprehensive Towncase on someone I hard TR.

[Pine]

votecount

Lies.

[Pine]

This game is still a thing

[Pine]

doot

I have a catto running against my leg. Hello catto.

[Pine]

{Nahdia, Momo/Eddie}

Increasingly confident this is the scumteam.

[Pine]

Yeah no, it's you. You and MOMO. Edge case for LLD.

[Pine]

Well someone's getting falsely towncased here, because I'm not scum. ATM I'm thinking one in {Pine, Math} and one in {LLD, MOMO, Not_Mafia}.

Also this is a super flexible position for scum. "It's two people in all the ones you suspect and also these other four." You're basically painting half the living playerlist at that point.

[Pine]

N_M

I think you are Town for reasons you are (likely) also aware of. I think it was a scum-motivated night action.

Talk to me please.

[Pine]

Wait a Minute, Pine, what are you saying you think N_M's role is?

Because

REDFLAVOUR CLAIMED TO ME VIA ANONYMOUS MESSAGE

and I cannot see what you would think he's obvious town for in that claim.

I don't have RF/N_M's claim. An action N1 targeted both of us which I'm pretty certain makes him Town. This action MIGHT have come from Town and is therefore NAI, and it MIGHT have come from scum, but like 4 times out of 5 this is scum targeting two Townies.

I'd rather. It elaborate further. It's already guessable.

[Pine]

I'd rather not* elaborate further. Damn autocorrect. It's bad enough when it garbles grammar, that actually changed meaning.

[Pine]

Oh. Hmm. I missed that Lovebird soft. Well that probably makes it NAI then.

[Pine]

Wait a Minute, Pine, what are you saying you think N_M's role is?

Because

REDFLAVOUR CLAIMED TO ME VIA ANONYMOUS MESSAGE

and I cannot see what you would think he's obvious town for in that claim.

I don't have RF/N_M's claim. An action N1 targeted both of us which I'm pretty certain makes him Town. This action MIGHT have come from Town and is therefore NAI, and it MIGHT have come from scum, but like 4 times out of 5 this is scum targeting two Townies.

I'd rather. It elaborate further. It's already guessable.

Pine do you scumread me?

For at least the fifth time, I've been thinking you're Town since late D1. I honestly have no idea why I am constantly forced to assert this. Please remember it this time.

[Pine]

Yeah, but “I think.”

It does Town zero good to know this information now.

If I’m wrong, and it’s a Town-enacted action, telling scum would let them exploit it.

Stop rolefishing bro.

[Pine]

But halfassing is the right call here.

Dude don’t treat me like a rookie. I’ve earned my stripes.

[Pine]

doot doot doot

Why no votes for Nahdia? Could also vote for LAMIST Momo.

[Pine]

Well, since the players don\t want to listen to me and disregard everything I say as dumb, I might as well not say anything substantial.

Well you weren't before, so go for it.

[Pine]

No.

We are not starting the argument between you two again. It almost killed this game.

Go to your rooms.

[Pine]

Disingenuous apology is disingenuous.

[Pine]

I'm suggesting that the first time he said "Please use masculine pronouns" you could have said "Oh my bad bro" like the rest of us. A pressured one-line apology immediately followed by "We cool?" and a demand to capitulate to your biased version of events is disingenuous.

In other news, who else do you have scumreads on? Who else do you TR? Maybe if you talked about something other than one topic, people would interact with you more positively.

[Pine]

Mathdino has a point.

Nico does not. Pouting about other users, who are not in this game, mistreating you is not actually an excuse for mistreating OTM.

OTM, set your pronoun for fuck's sake.

[Pine]

No, it doesn't matter. You said "call me this" and Nico refused. That's what mattered.

[Pine]

I'm trying to *end* it, Eddie. Resolution is not encouragement.

[Pine]

What I'm saying is that the offense you've given is far greater than you seem willing to acknowledge, and your offense received is being oversold.

As for my sensitivity, think what you want. I'm a new dad, transitioning from a career as an ambulance professional into adolescent education, who has given up his summers for 18 years running to work for peanuts with small children, a large proportion of whom are disadvantaged, have special needs, or both. I sleep well at night.

[Pine]

Well, I sleep well when Pinecone lets me. Last night she did not

[Pine]

No one here is mis-gendering you. You're trying to hold us responsible for others' bad behavior as an excuse for your own bad behavior. This is more bad behavior.

Stop.

Play Mafia, not this "I am being persecuted and shamed for wanting to treat others as badly as I perceive I am being treated" game.

Seriously. For the second time, please talk to me about your reads. Not a half-sentence statement of two people you scumread. Give me your reads on as many people as you can, in what detail you can.

[Pine]

Honestly this makes me scumread Momo even more. This practically shouts "scum suspected for the wrong reasons"

[Pine]

Scum caught for the wrong reasons is not a tell
Just so we're all clear
Thanks

It's not a tell. The scumminess, claim, and PoE do that job. It is, however, an explanation for why he's aggressively towncasing himself.

[Pine]

I don't think Nico was being transphobic. I think she was just being an asshole.

VOTE: Momo

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking the flipless thing may be a scum bluff.

[Pine]

I'll gladiate you anyway. Fite me.

Nico, shut the fuck up. You're literally blaming us for others' bad behavior. Stop.

[Pine]

I'm blaming you for not stopping when he asked you to stop. There's a gigantic difference.

[Pine]

Yeah I'm down with a Momo lynch.

[Pine]

Yeah, see, I'm not sure I believe the flipless claim

[Pine]

Even if the flipless claim is real, I don't want it going to LYLO

[Pine]

No no, I don't think you're scum, Dino.

I'd be down to lynch Mimi's partner first, but there's no consensus on who that is. I think it's Nahdia.

[Pine]

Momo

Damn auto

[Pine]

Mastina is often wrong.

The problem is that Mastina is the only way we pull Nico out of her deathtunnel. Assuming scum doesn't bus or self-vote, that's four votes down.

And this is a group where consensus is like herding cats.

Why do we have LLD as Town again?

[Pine]

Her contribution is like, nil now that she's been safe.

[Pine]

Ahhhh! Betelgeuse! I was just about to mention that it's been three days so maybe she's V/LA, but holy shit Betelgeusing!

[Pine]

Nah, Betegeusing isn't a scumtell.

It's a creepytell.

Use the HURT tags as a placeholder vote if you like.

[Pine]

Ewww

[Pine]

Yeah, definitely VOTE: Muffin

[Pine]

I am not. You are, though!

I'd be concerned about Jester, but Momo wasn't playing the Jester's game, and this smells like a scheme to weasel out of Momo's claim with a Rolecop on the table, while also trying to avoid lynch.

Deeeeefinitely want to lynch Muffin now.

[Pine]

I am not. You are, though!

I'd be concerned about Jester, but Momo wasn't playing the Jester's game, and this smells like a scheme to weasel out of Momo's claim with a Rolecop on the table, while also trying to avoid lynch.

Deeeeefinitely want to lynch Muffin now.

Why would you be concerned about Jester when this game is not bastard?

You're obviously right. But I was saying I *wasn't* concerned about him being a Jester because it was clearly a fakeclaim.

oh

then i guess it doesn't help that i don't know why

*shrug*

in other news, #4235 is a scum post. points to anyone who can tell me the various reasons why

How about you say why?

It's not, fyi.

[Pine]

They'd just shoot or block the rolecop, Math. Given Muffin's behavior, PoE suggesting Momo/Muffin, the claim shenanigans, and the slot NOT being a janitor, I want Muffin's blood.

[Pine]

oh, and your #4235 just sucks if you're town, pine - ticks every box on the scum checklist. i'd recommend not doing that if you're town

Yeah, you don't just get to call something obvscum when it isn't, then not explain.

[Pine]

Janitored* whatever

Momo claimed on page 1 that he was a self-janitor

[Pine]

Janitored* whatever

Momo claimed on page 1 that he was a self-janitor

Thanks for telling him Pine /sarcasm

I was trying to get other people to see that. Rather than outright state it and get reactions damn it.

He already claimed counter to it and had no idea what I was talking about. It's a fakeclaim.

[Pine]

You're overthinking it.

[Pine]

The mafia part?

[Pine]

^This

[Pine]

Large quantities of prods required

[Pine]

He’s kinda done both. He implied at first that he wasn’t a janitor, acted confused when it was brought up, then disengaged.

[Pine]

zMuffinMan replaces in for MOMOMEN.

Your slot claimed flipless Miller ZMuffinMan.

Do you confirm this?

phew, lucky i didn't confirm this without checking

you're lying to me; that's not my fake-claim

good try, though!

[Pine]

what do you mean the slot not being a janitor?

oh. then i'm that then

if my predecessor didn't withdraw whatever fake-claim he was using, then i would be remiss to think i know better

so i'm sticking with whatever my predecessor fake-claimed. whatever that happens to be

Also this.

So yeah. 4260 was a backpedal and half-assed retcon.

He didn't read his predecessor and bungled continuity of fakeclaim.

[Pine]

Because she is scum. Like you.

[Pine]

Hostile sarcasm = overdone

[Pine]

I can put my thirst for blood on hold.

VOTE: Nahdia

[Pine]

Mastina no.

[Pine]

Not sure ask them

I’m considering fullclaiming. It’s pretty impossible that the scumteam hasn’t put it together, but pretty likely that Townies aren’t paying close enough attention

I find it ironic that Mastina is voting for you given the invention I gave them came from you

[Pine]

MathDino is not scum. Scum does not get an investigative inventor enabler and then give it to Town.

Stop being stupid.

Also, Math may not have known that the Rolecop was given. He targeted *me*, not Mastina. I was given a list of three investigative one-shots, and chose to give the Rolecop to Mastina.

[Pine]

Dude my role makes even less sense as scum.

FULLCLAIM:

I am Beeboy, Town Even-Day Inventor Designator.

On even nights, I designate one person. I can't pick the same person twice. They get to choose from the following:
1-shot Doc
1-shot Bodyguard
1-shot Bodyguard
They send that invention on to a person of their choosing. Any attempt to give the invention to me restocks it into my supply.

MathDino is the odd-night version of the same, with 1 Rolecop and 2 tracker shots.

Neither of these make ANY fucking sense for scum.

[Pine]

Ach, maybe we just abandon?

I'm kind of feeling this.

[Pine]

UNVOTE: Mathdino
I could lynch LLD/Nahdia/Not_Mafia.

I wouldn't really expect to hit scum on any of them.
I wouldn't really expect to hit scum anywhere.
I'd be expecting to hit town.
I've just mostly given up and those are the names which I can be forced into voting right now.

Welcome to my world.

MathDino/Pine/zMuffinMan is my lynch worlds.

1/3, nice job!

[Pine]

Yeah, I'm done listening to the various Maths being dicks.

VOTE: Abandon

[Pine]

I've explained repeatedly why Muffin and Nahdia are my lynchpool. I'm not willing to vote outside it.

[Pine]

ffs Can we please just fucking lynch Not_Mafia.

He's scum, ok?

He's fucking scum.

Ugggggh.

Not I *really* want to lynch N_M, because I'm not so tunneled I can't read between the lines.

The problem is that I serve a Town-critical function N2, and I'm Loverized with him.

[Pine]

Now* I really want.

Normally don't bother EBWOPing to fox typoes, but that one makes my intent ambiguous.

[Pine]

Lynching N_M today kills me before N2, which means I can't give you a protective to distribute.

Ah fuck it.

Even losing a straight Doc is worth lynching scum.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

PE: Yeah, got there on my own.

[Pine]

Yeah, I was suspicious of RF from the get-go, but was relying on your TR of him. Then the Loverization made me think scum had a Mafia Loverizer, but I believe the various softs out there.

PE: Cool story bro. Die with me, lover boy.

[Pine]

Oh I agree. Hence the attraction of honorably self-sacrificing to kill you.

Banzai!

[Pine]

LLD, on a scale of 1-10, how confident are you?

[Pine]

Hey.

Fuck off with your rolehunting.

I know who the Loverizer is, and I DO NOT want them to claim.

[Pine]

It was. I absolutely refuse to point it out.

[Pine]

Please don't overestimate scum. They miss stuff ALL THE TIME.

LLD, what's your confidence on N_M, 1-10? I want to know that the grenade I'm throwing myself on is not a dud.

PE: Excellent.

[Pine]

Why

WHY

Do you out Town roles like that?

[Pine]

Because it's a Town player. Go back to your lurking.

[Pine]

LLD I understand your reasons for not voting.

Vote Muffin for me? Pretty please?

[Pine]

I kind of want to be certain of Lovebird. Muffin isn't making it to endgame, but Lovebird could coast along. I'd rather the clear.

[Pine]

Farewell, noble friends!

Though I move on from this place, we shall meet again!

[Pine]

Nico, Mastina, OTM. Hammer and let's move on.

[Pine]

Self-hammering is dumb under almost any circumstance. The only situation (which doesn't involve unusual mechanics) where I'd self-hammer is if I were caught with an ironclad guilty and thought I could deny Town substantive information by ending day. A quicklynch when known PRs haven't checked in, for example.

I would honestly think less of NM as a player I respect if he self-hammered here. He has a small but non-zero chance to weasel out of this, given the feckless myopia of sections of this Town.

[Pine]

Also, "Feckless Myopia" is the name of my new Walk the Moon cover band.

[Pine]

He didn't have a chance before LLD did her thing.

[Pine]

I don’t know what NM’s role is, that’s not how lovers work.

The PM I got from the mod was pretty straight, something along the lines of “Younare now lovers with NM.”

[Pine]

Loverize Muffin and Nahdia plz.

95% last scum is in the two of them.

[Pine]

i think you have the accuracy of a drunk monkey shooting a gun with its feet

+1, at least in this game.

[Pine]

probably everyone around the drunk monkey when it's ready to take it's next shot and wildly swinging the gun away from the bullseye

Thank you for saying this better than I ever could

(You're still scummy)