Mini 2020: Destiny III: Cosmic Mafia [終わり]

[Feysal]

I seem to have slept through the first few pages. Time to dig in.

Well this game started quickly

Really? I don't know if the site has gotten less active over the last years, but I don't think this posting rate is in any way unusual.

Kuribo looks very town, and I don't think I even need to elaborate on that. Muffin also looks town.

I don't know what Cupcake could have done to deserve this flash wagon. Sure, I vaguely remember being frustrated by her lurking in past games, but not so much that I'd want to lynch her before she even posts once. What is up with that?

LLD may be town. I don't agree with her reasoning behind post 56, but I get it, and I think it comes from a town perspective. Espeonage seems rather brazen in the way he points at Staeg, and he is obviously aware of how that post would look but posted it anyway. I'm not reading that one way or the other.

There is however something else about Espeonage that does bother me. He points at Staeg... but does not vote. Instead he posts again to justify keeping his vote on Cupcake, as if by afterthought. Why? Cupcake had not yet posted.

Imagine if Cupcake actually is scum. What would her partners do? They would probably join the wagon to avoid suspicion on themselves, and they would probably not want to be the first to leave it. Espeonage fits this profile. Later, Cupcake votes Espeonage, only to jump on the new Oma wagon. I believe I've seen this dance before.

VOTE: Espeonage

[Feysal]

What if Cupcake is town, Feysal? How does that reflect on Esp?

It would weaken the read of course, but not erase it. Espeonage keeping his vote on Cupcake like that looks odd either way.

It feels disrespectful to only speak of Cupcake when Camn is also in the hydra. Maybe use Camncake? Or Cupcamn?

I said this started quickly cause I have no fucking idea what my role is.

I'm intrigued by this. I also find it believable, since I am also confused. I have some wild ideas about the setup, but I think it is too early to speculate.

[Feysal]

I've read up to page 12, responding to some posts I've seen so far.

If you think he's scum, then clearly my reasoning aligned into yours and found the right target. Why discredit that reasoning and then put your vote there?

Others have already commented on this, but I may have something to add. I did not even think in terms of discrediting anyone, I simply posted my thoughts as they were. I did not think your reason for suspecting Espeonage was very strong, but I did not care - I tried to imagine the thought process behind it, and felt it was more likely to come from town. The fact that I was suspicious of Espeonage for a separate reason did not hurt either.

I think I would rather trust someone who is wrong for the right reasons, than someone who is right for the wrong reasons, if you get my meaning. You were a bit of both.

ITS NICE TO HAVE YOU BACK FEYSAL

CANT HAVE AN OLDIE GAME WITHOUT AT LEAST ONE WALLPOSTER

I almost did not sign up, but I could not resist seeing so many familiar names in one game. I'm glad to be back.

I thought Espy's self-conscious posts were kind of town.

(cut)

...even though the reasoning is flawed; I think I'm self-aware enough that I'd still post similarly if I were scum.

I don't understand this. If you think your self-awareness helps you act like town, would it not help Espeonage also? Why then would you interpret those posts as town?

So ya don't go there. Take a closer look at Kokichi excluding that post and tell me what you see.

It was more of a note to self. I will go there, but definitely not on the first day.

I don't really see much content from Kokichi to base any read on. The only town ping I get is from that comment about having had a town read and forgetting who it was, that sounds pretty uninformed to me.

Is it safe to assume that whomever you're voting for is a scum read?

Yes. It has been a long time since my last game, but I don't remember ever really using votes for pressure.

[Feysal]

Caught up.

Feysal I hope you'll pay me some attention in your next post.

I was going to, had your post quoted, and lost it while writing my replies.

Feysal is LLD's buddy.

I have no idea what to say about this though, it came completely out of the blue. On your last read list I was back to null too, so is it even relevant now?

I really don't feel like getting suspended from the site again for telling people they have sex with farm animals.

I don't know if it helps, but I enjoy reading your more colorful expressions.

Now, about Dunnstral. I don't have time tonight for a closer look, but there are three things I remember standing out from his posts. First he defended my opening post, which evolved into a minor argument. Second, he reacted to Kuribo posting about him, which evolved into a minor argument. Third, he disagreed with Kuribo about his crumb giving him town cred, which evolved into a minor... seeing the pattern here? I don't see any of these arguments moving the game anywhere, but I don't see a scum motivation there either. If I wanted to generate content to provide an appearance of activity, I think I could come up with a better idea than antagonising Kuribo. Instead I'm getting the impression that Dunnstral simply does not like to back down from arguments.

The one thing in his posts I remember making me suspicious is why did he react to Kuribo talking about him? Scum do tend to worry about their standing more than town.

About Kuribo, of course I spotted the crumb, and that was one reason for my town read on him. Still is, in fact. Yes, apparently scum did know the name of the town, and Dunnstral was right about the crumb not proving anything, but Kuribo himself obviously thought it meant something. I can easily imagine him as town noticing there is no sample role and deciding to leave a crumb. But as scum, why would he bother, when the whole point of the crumb is that he should not know what the town is called, and he does? Him doing that as scum would practically require cognitive dissonance.

[Feysal]

Wouldn't that be nai? Why do you think refusing to back down from an argument is town?

I don't think it is town, I agree it is null. But it looks like other players do find those arguments suspicious.

Apparently I need to be much clearer about what my reads are. I did not think Dunnstral was town before, instead I found him somewhat suspicious, and more so now that I've reread his posts. I don't agree with some reasons people suspect him for, but I do see others. There is his reaction to Kuribo posting about him, and it turns out that was the second time this game. There was also post 273 in reaction to AnonymousGhost, when she suspected possible early distancing between him and Maria. I think his argument there is flawed - it does not matter whether you were asked for a read, you can use the opportunity for distancing just fine - and I have to wonder why he even commented on that. And then there is post 147, which looks like deflecting to Muffin. Deflecting what?

Scum do tend to worry about their standing more than town.

ORLY?

I tend to ignore stuff like that as scum because I don't want to draw more attention to it.

Quite right, but that is another matter. Scum should avoid being seen as defensive, but they can get careless.

Now how the FUCK is that "antagonizing me to generate content" as Fey put it? Where I see it, Dunn tried to throw shade, got caught, and realized he'd bit off more than he could chew so he clammed the fuck up.

You seem to have misunderstood me. I don't think he was trying to generate content, that was my attempt at humor. My point was that pissing you off for no good reason seems like a bad idea, such as that intentionally obtuse comment in post 362.

Think about what Dunnstral was saying from a logical perspective. He was saying that your crumb did not matter, because scum might have fake claims, and he was right. Fate confirmed later that the name of the town was known to the scum, but that does not even matter, because the mere possibility of that would have left room for reasonable doubt. I don't view it as throwing shit at you and hoping it would stick or anything, since not being confirmed town on the first day is not exactly a reason to suspect anyone. I think your argument was just a clash of personalities. Staeg described it as you talking past each other, and I think he was right on the money about that.

[Feysal]

Never fucking mind that if I had known that scum already knew, I wouldn't have fucking bothered crumbing it or mentioning it in the first damn place.

That's what I said.

I already explained that as scum, you push that you're clear from that and that mafia wouldn't have known the town faction name, and ride that to a win. There's a clear motive there, saying you wouldn't jump on that - that's not "common sense", it's self meta.

I have an anecdote related to this.

My first game on this site was Stars Aligned III. It had complex mechanics, and once during the game a town player made a logical error which appeared to make me confirmed town. He was incorrect, and I was in fact scum. So what did I do?

Nothing.

I spotted the error of course, and hoped it would catch on, but I would never have tried to use it unless town did it first. The risk of being caught pushing bad logic was far too great.

This situation is far less complex. I can't see scum Kuribo making that crumb or trying to use it when all it takes to demolish it is someone mentioning fake claims. It would be an exercise in futility. There is no way in hell he could ever ride that to a win, there are way too many experienced players in this game to let that happen, and Kuribo knows it.

[Feysal]

AnonymousGhost seems to agree with me in post 280.

Fair enough, but that is after the fact. It does nothing to explain why you brought it up in the first place.

The only thing these players are experienced in is getting banned, and it shows.

You know, I have been trying to be patient with you. Yes, I said I found you suspicious, but I could not quite shake my hunch that you could be town anyway. But if you're going to continue making posts like the above, I'm just not going to bother.

I have three points to make on this subject. One, I have not seen anyone lap up the idea that scum could not know the name of the town. I think I'm the only one who even mentioned town reading Kuribo because of the crumb, and I did it after it was confirmed that they knew. Two, it only takes one person to remind him of the possibility of fake claims. It would have been pointless for everyone to repeat the same thing. Three... I did not say that experienced players would call out Kuribo. I said they would not let him ride that to a win, and I remain confident of that.

There are a good amount of players with less scumhunting than I.

Espeonage, Kokichi, Camntsuki, arguably Nacho, arguably Kuribo.

Three of those players also have way fewer posts than you do. Kuribo is being town read by most players. And Cupcake is not being called out because Cupcake.

The "yikes" post should be showing up on your radar since Dunns is saying that it was in response to Muffina but is now changing it by saying it was to the thread in general and do you really not see the cog-dis here?

I've been trying to follow your conversation, but you've lost me here. What cognitive dissonance?

For my part, I think Dunnstral took those early reads from Muffin way too seriously. The number of times Cupcake was on that lynch list really should have been a clue about that.

I also don't buy that scum theater argument. I've never even heard about such a tell, my experience has always been that scum try to avoid each other. Faking a conversation that long would have been too much effort for little gain, and people are lazy. I think Pixie is town, and so is Ghost, but I think she is just wrong about this one.

More posts just keep coming. I'm posting this now, reading more later.

[Feysal]

I have barely skimmed the latest pages, but I need to post now because I don't know when I will get the next chance.

I will be on vacation until Thursday.

Can you give a current reads list or an idea of where you're currently at in terms of reads and why?

Off the top of my head, I have you, Pixie, Ghost and Kuribo as town reads. I remain somewhat suspicious of Dunnstral, but that is very uncertain. I had noted Staeg as a possible partner to Dunnstral due to his defense of him, but that sudden switch looks very bad. He could also be scum who was trying to earn town credit from opposing a mislynch, but has had to switch for his own survival. And yes, I remain suspicious of Espeonage as well.

But if you're going to continue making posts like the above, I'm just not going to bother.

You can't be serious.

I can. I've noticed your references to

experienced

players. They are both derisive and condescending, and they do nothing to encourage people to work with you. If you piss off people enough, they won't care whether you're town, they'll want you gone either way.

[Feysal]

I'm back from my vacation, but I'm way behind on reading the game, and I don't think I can catch up before the day phase ends, at least not soon enough for it to matter.

Can someone summarize what is going on? It could help me make better use of my time.

[Feysal]

We lynched you and we're waiting on your flip. Better hurry and post reads if you're Town just in case the mod comes and locks the thread.

Thanks for the laugh, but I have now read the last couple pages and skimmed enough to know that did not happen.

Apparently there have been no less than four claims. Masons, Kuribo and now Kokichi. Anything else of importance I missed?

[Feysal]

Super weak sauce reading the last few pages to make sure you weren't really lynched before discussing your alignment btw

Really?

I did not even need to read the last pages to figure that out. I was reading them because I wanted to know

what was going on

.

You wanted my reads? I recall posting them in my last post before my vacation, and I obviously have not had an opportunity to work on them since.

[Feysal]

So, I was hammered. Just like that. No warning, no claim, nothing. Not that I'm surprised mind you, I could see this coming when Kuribo and DGB suddenly turned on me with their idiotic reasons. I wish I could call them the dumbest I was ever lynched for, but I have crossed paths with so many true morons they might not even make the top ten.

Suspected for reading the game after coming back from vacation? And Saturday is how many days after Thursday again? Oh, and I'm sure you've never been uncertain about a read on the first day of a game? I can forgive the other voters for joining the wagon so close to deadline, but those reasons were just

awful

.

At least that saves me from reading the twenty plus pages I missed while I was away. Even if I updated my reads now, you would probably forget them by tomorrow anyway.

Oh, and Staeg... I would not be so quick to defend Fate in this case. For what it is worth, I find Kokichi's claim believable. It would not be the strangest role in this game, not even close.

You have no idea.

[Feysal]

This game. Where do I even begin?

I received information during the night: a lone line of text saying "Multiball"

Interesting. Particularly since it was not meant for you. I sent that to MariaR.

/tosses out poisoner theory/

Don't throw out a perfectly valid theory. What happened to MariaR looks exactly like she was poisoned aside from flavor. Note that poisoner cannot be protected from, so there is no reason to expect MariaR was targeted by two killers.

[Feysal]

Poisoned targets would know they're poisoned in most cases so you can throw that theory out the window.

Poison victims live for one more day and then they die. Until then they can talk and function as normal. They are aware of this.

You live for this day phase and then you die. Until then you can talk and function as normal. You are aware of this, in fact everyone is aware of this.

How exactly are you any different from a poison victim? I don't see any difference. Add the fact that poisoners can bypass protections like yours, and it makes perfect sense.

DGB did target you Feysal and she claimed that her role either role locks or redirects the target's ability depending on their role.

Yes, I'm aware. As you can imagine, I'm curious about what that means.

And Feysal, you explain your role too. People want you dead.

Aware of this too. It was kind of hard not to notice. I'm pretty much resigned to dying today, and I suppose I have nothing to gain from delaying my claim.

I have one night action, which I used to send a message to MariaR. And instead you got it.

I also have a passive ability. I know this claim will probably seal my fate, but what the hell. Cops see me as their own alignment. Town cop sees me as town. Scum cop sees me as scum.

Let that sink in for a moment. When would that ability ever be useful? If town investigated me, I might as well not have it. But if scum investigated me and revealed their result, my flip would expose them. So why would scum have a cop, unless there is something for the cop to find? This is why I have suspected the presence of another scum faction or serial killer from the start.

Oh, and my sun/moon signs are Virgo/Scorpio. Still don't know what their significance even is.

[Feysal]

So you're not an oracle type role, you just sent a message saying multiball with no explanation?

Pretty much.

After the way yesterday went, I knew I could not expect to live long. So I decided to make the most of the time I had left. MariaR was one of the players I had no clear read on after the first day, so I sent her that message to see what she would do. My plan was to let the town discuss it, see if anyone reacted funny, and then explain where the message came from, since I knew I'd have to claim today anyway.

Note that a serial killer would also make sense. But either way there is a kill missing.

[Feysal]

This is not the bah post of a player who wants Town to know they're in multiball and thinks they were just lynched.

I'm not even going to argue against this. However, I will say I was quite frustrated after that speedwagon, and I did not even know for certain. I considered claiming after reading DGB's taunt, but did not bother, since I thought you would get my role soon enough anyway.

Feysal, does your passive refer to specific alignments/factions as per your example?

No specific factions.

It is part of my role why I can talk today.

Okay, got it. I misunderstood when you said you did not activate it, and thought it was not part of your role at all.

Anyway, surviving yesterday has at least given me time to update my reads. Here is who I think are town, and why.

Kuribo - I don't think scum would have bothered or even thought about breadcrumbing the name of the town when the whole point is they should not know and they do. As if I even need to name a reason. His reasoning could be better though.

Insects

can tell the difference between two and three.
Pixie - One of my strongest town reads at this point. Anyone who thinks she could be my partner after yesterday cannot be thinking clearly. I apparently only survived because she moved my vote, so if she was my partner, don't you think I'd have known about it?
Dunnstral - I was conflicted about this read for a long time. I noted him being defensive a number of times, but his play since then has looked more and more town. He may be too argumentative for his own good, but I don't see any scum intent behind that.
Ghost - My town read from yesterday still holds, and post 980 has made it stronger. I would not expect scum to basically brag about their past scum performance.
Nacho & Staeg - I've had my doubts about their mason claim from the start, though I did not think it likely they would be scum. I thought about gambitting neighbors, lovers, or maybe they misunderstood something about their roles. But probably they are what they say they are.

As of now, I have everyone else in the process of elimination pile.

[Feysal]

I've campaigned from the start of the day on the platform of putting a bullet between his eyes, and again he just gives up?

Is this a pro-town attitude?

Just because I accept my impending death does not mean I'm giving up.

I'm not an idiot, I know perfectly well what my last post yesterday looks like. I know I'm bound to die for that, and I see no point in arguing with you over it after I tried to mediate between you and Dunnstral yesterday to no avail. Even if I did survive today, I would only become lynchbait. Instead I chose to ignore my survival and do what I could in the time I had left.

Feysal said NOTHING about this. He voted in secret

That was not me. That was Pixie. She explained it in post 1582.

And for the record, I knew nothing of this until later. Had I known, there is no way in hell I would have made a final post like that.