Prey Mafia - Game Over

[Enter]

It's a beautiful day outside. Birds are singing, snow has covered the ground. On days like this, kids like Chara...

Should be voted in RVS.

VOTE: Chara

[Enter]

Out of curiosity, how often do town correctly identify mafia here? It seems like 12 days is counterproductive because it gives mafia more time to blend in or cover their tracks, versus something high pressure like 30 seconds.

I haven't played enough recently to be particularly certain, but it's pretty rare day one, IIRC. Usually you'll have to look at the way people are saying things - scum seem a bit less likely to slip at surface level in longer days, IMO.

[Enter]

VOTE: Papa Zito

Oh hell yes, I open this thing and there aren't 10 zillion posts.

VOTE: Enter obv

Out of curiosity, how often do town correctly identify mafia here?

Ever-so-slightly worse than random.

VOTE: Enter

Sheeping your scum read? Interesting tactic.

[Enter]

It is, isn't it!

My brain wants to process this as a question, but there is no question mark at the end, which leaves me to believe this is a statement.

Would you like to explain why you are making statements (which are far more in opposition of open discussion than asking questions)?

[Enter]

"open discussion" is a very nebulous thing; I don't see how making a statement is somehow in opposition to it.

Are you serious in calling Papa Zito my scumread?

No. I don't think I've been serious yet. Just enjoying RVS while we're here.

[Enter]

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

I think this will be here for a while.

[Enter]

General lack of effort. And gut reasons that I don't fully have words for yet. Want to join me?

[Enter]

You seem flustered. Are you flustered?

[Enter]

I'm just giddy to see how you explain this.

I already have.

[Enter]

I'm lost.

You misspelled "scum."

[Enter]

General lack of effort. And gut reasons that I don't fully have words for yet. Want to join me?

no because the game just started. what effort are you expecting from him this far?

People have applied effort by joining the discussion and changing votes. He has done none of that.

[Enter]

give the man time? we’re two pages in. why are you so desperate to push something that’s hardly there?

Why? It only takes a few posts for someone to indicate they have no intention of scum hunting.

[Enter]

it only takes a few posts for someone to indicate they have every intention of nitpicking throughout the game, too

You seem to have pretty strong feelings without dropping a vote. Interesting.

[Enter]

does anyone else satisfy the criteria for 'general lack of effort?'

Yep. We'll get to them later. You seem like you're building a case. Wanna drop a vote?

Also in the post where you place your vote, please also talk about misrepping me by pretending my first question was serious when I already said it wasn't.

[Enter]

why?

An appropriate reaction.

why?

Every one of his posts last page/the tone of his reaction to Enter in general.

I disagree. How do you feel about placing your vote on a relevant wagon?

[Enter]

Why not?

[Enter]

Why not?

Because calling someone out doesn't always necessarily warrant a vote.

I just don't understand why you've now asked two people for a vote, when your wagon is already at 4, which, although not close to lynch, is a sizable amount for 4 pages.

You seem hesitant to vote. Other people also seem hesitant to vote. Correct me if I'm wrong but your strongest case should match your vote, unless the player is L-1, for example. No one is L-1 right now, so case who you're voting, or vote who you're casing.

PEdit: Also that.

[Enter]

Enter Wagon Stage Left

Sorry I couldn't resist.

Does A50 usually claim early?
Also don't understand the Enter wagon at all.

yeah sometimes
whether or not the claim is germane to his actual role is a different story

and i kinda hate like every one of enter's posts?
what are you thinking about him?

==

Yep. We'll get to them later. You seem like you're building a case. Wanna drop a vote?

yeah i'm thinking about it
kinda trying to gauge if what i'm not liking is a personality/playstyle thing and not a scum thing; i can't tell yet

==

Also in the post where you place your vote, please also talk about misrepping me by pretending my first question was serious when I already said it wasn't.

not sure what your'e referring to

if you're talking about the statement thing - when you said you weren't being serious i thought you were referring to not being serious about calling implosion's papa zito read an actual scumread. the reason why it's confusing for me is because your whole interaction there is like very weirdly accusatory and it seemed to me like you were seriously pushing implosion for making a statement instead of a question (which is, imo, an absurd reason to push someone)

idk your tone is very very very weird and like you say it isn't serious but the way you present things makes me think you think you're making valid points (when you're not) and i can't tell if i'm misreading what you mean in the first place or if your'e walking back things when people object to what you're saying.

also you ignored me pointing out that your reason for scumreading bef rn is quite awful, and calling the wagon 'relevant' does not, in fact, add legitimacy to the that read

You should vote me now that I'm back at L-2. It will be fun, I promise.

Ya'll bailed on the Enter wagon way too fast.

Kids these days I swear.

No kidding. At least it provides for a healthy rotation. Let's see who will step up and who never moves! Find out next time, on...

[Enter]

What makes your wagon not relevant?

I somehow missed this, and I apologize. It's extra awkward because I can't remember if I was talking to McQueen or implosion, but I think it must have been McQueen, because implosion is still on one of the only two wagons of relevance.

[Enter]

I'd say two things make a wagon relevant: size and reasoning.

And I'd agree that my wagon is one of the two most relevant wagons right now.

[Enter]

Unless my neighbors disagree, until further notice, what happens in the hood stays in the hood.

[Enter]

y’all think there is scum in the neighborhood? is that usually the case? sorry, like I said i’ve never been in one and I’m not sure I’ve been in a game that had one at all.

I certainly hope not, the game would become unfavorably awkward.

[Enter]

Skitter feels weird. I don't like it.

I mean I tend to vote as necessary. I made an RVS vote. I just chose to be sparse because, to reiterate, it was clear who I was pressuring. Is the point of a vote, if not to lynch, to apply pressure? If that’s already there, is a vote obligatory?

Not necessarily, but it's common to do so just for that extra nudge. I can respect a cautious playstyle though.

I want to call BEF, Chara, Enter, and actually maybe mcqueen town.

This is a very neutral read list, boring as bread. You think this is just some town spat then, maybe with a poke from scum? Do you have any fingers to point?

Reading this post sent me through a rollercoaster of emotions.

[Enter]

No. Vote me.

[Enter]

It's a secret. I'll tell you later.

[Enter]

Persivul needs to be lynched for calling Zito Papa.

Enter should do something besides try to accrue votes because i'm townreading his entire behaviour, but i also don't find it useful at all to actually catching scum. if we're talking about fostering meaningful discussion, having a single wagon is about as boring as it will get.

Gimme a minute, I was trying to do something. Mum, you're right though, one wagon sucks.

Join me here?
VOTE: Varsoon

[Enter]

Alright question:

If moderator came down and said we had to Lynch someone right now, is there anyone who would be a opposed to lynching me?

[Enter]

Hmm... it's almost like I goaded people into voting me and then I wasn't surprised when they did.

Do you love playing scum, Varsoon? Serious question. Also please answer my other question.

[Enter]

To people not taking this seriously, please put me back at L-1. I'd prefer if my wagon consisted of skitter, Varsoon, implosion, McQueen, and Robert2424, but losers can't be choosers, so I'll take what I can get.

[Enter]

@mod, you missed one

Also, I wanna make something fairly clear.
VOTE: Varsoon

This should clear things up for Chara, at least.

Please note that VCs 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 were incorrect and have been updated.

VC 1.5

[3] Enter:

Persivul, BrightEyedFish, mcqueen

[3] Varsoon:

Chara, implosion, Enter

[2] redtea:

skitter30, Robert2424

[1] skitter30:

minhyukwithagun

[1] Robert2424:

Papa Zito

[3] Not Voting:

Almost50, redtea, Varsoon

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-02-01 18:00:00)

Spoiler:

[Enter]

Really want to see a vote from almost50. Also this is intent to hammer about 4 hours after I get to L-1 again.

[Enter]

Ouch. Got numbers mixed in my head. That's really disappointing.

[Enter]

To people not taking this seriously, please put me back at L-1.

Yes people, put him back there. The histrionics have become annoying.

Fair Elyse.

I rescind my intent.

Town: redtea, varsoon
Scum: Percival

VOTE: Percival

[Enter]

I rescind my intent.

Big surprise.

A haiku

You just don't like fun
Wonder if the cause is scum
We will soon find out

[Enter]

Testes read is something I can't explain at the moment. Sorry.

[Enter]

Testes read is something I can't explain at the moment. Sorry.

Why it autocorrects "redtea" to "testes" I have no clue and sincerely apologize.

[Enter]

Are we allowed to quote neighborhood?

I agree w/ chara right now. BEF responded weird.

[Enter]

Are we allowed to quote neighborhood?

You are not allowed to quote from any PTs.

Aye.

BEF have you played scum before?

How comfortable do you feel playing scum?

[Enter]

If you were in the hood, you'd read that as fish kinda mocking enter, not fish worried about enter. I noted in hood that 66 shows that fish isn't worried about enter. You'd get it if you were in there. Enter's all like

I'm getting people riled up and they don't know how to react

, and we're like

No, that's not really happening

.

You and zito are the only two people who seem to think fish don't look worried.

[Enter]

Persivul (in hood and out here): I'm big and important I wanted to vote enter cuz he seemed like he was trying too hard (lul)


Also why is A50 putting his signature on his posts... the site already does that for him

PEdit: Ninja'd

[Enter]

Sorry I got a little excited haven't played mafia from the start in a while.

If I could lynch three people right now it would be BEF, Robert2424, Pers

In that order.

[Enter]

I take that back, if BEF flipped town, I'd prolly flip Minyu over persi.

Persi doesn't seem all too scummy, just feels fake and has a larger than necessary sense of self-importance that also feels fake. Zito's feels real, tho, which is why he's (maybe) town (zito's been kinda raining on my parade in the hood, too, but his feels like he didn't conjur it up for the sake of squashing the hopes of dreams of the people who play with him, seems like just him)

[Enter]

@BEF

I want to know if you feel comfortable playing scum. I'm not going to meta you, I don't read games I'm not in (most of the time). If you don't answer me, that's your perogative. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be held against you in a mafia game (unless no one notices).

Considering BEF is in the neighborhood, I had assumed Enter wasn't looking out for his reaction, but those of other people's.
Seeing his recent posts, I don't know if this is just more of his games or he really picked up something on BEF.

Sorry to bring up the hood again, but, if I were to take a guess on this:
Personally, if I were in BEF's position, I would play along to see what reads could be accrued. There is a PT after all, it could be a good use for it. This is the kind of attitude Enter might have been looking for.
Now the first responses in the main thread could be seen as playing along, but long past that, up to now, BEF takes issue with it (worried or not). Which may be why Enter seems to be legitimately pushing him now?
I don't think it's working though.

As an aside, keep in mind it is highly likely one of the neighbors is scum.

Like I said in hood, you have a way with words that is exceptional. Someday I'll just stop talking.

No games right now, though, just lynching. Personally, I would have liked it if people played along, but noooo, people just kinda sat and watched. Guess I shouldn't have said anything in the hood, people would have actually tried to lynch me and things might have gone much smoother. This is what I get for spilling the beans. Me and my big mouth.

Yeah I'm just kindof an ass, call it becoming jaded watching people do things over 10 years, apologies in advance.

From what I can tell I'm on the same wavelength with His Majesty the King on most everything, which scares me a little bit.

I also don't wanna kill Chara yet which is a new an exciting experience.

Ha, it's fine? I think.

Have you played w/ Chara before?


======

In other news this seems like the sort of game where the mod would give us an all - town hood (but wouldn't tell us for the purpose of balance), so once we get a little more concrete in our reads, I'm ok w/ using hood chat again.

[Enter]

Have you played w/ Chara before?


======

In other news this seems like the sort of game where the mod would give us an all - town hood (but wouldn't tell us for the purpose of balance), so once we get a little more concrete in our reads, I'm ok w/ using hood chat again.

We played together in this game which was a lot longer ago than I thought hmm.

If we get a red flip from the hood crew I'm fine going back there but until then it may as well be Chernobyl.


In other news Robert2424 continues to be inscrutable, I'd appreciate some help increasing his scrutableness.

Agreed, which is why two of my lynch propositions are from the hood.

[Enter]

didn't you just say you were thinking there's a good chance the hood is all town? i know that's an obvious question, but.

Yes, but

there are two ways to approach this:
1. Lynch outside hood to see if it comes up red (if so, and we can draw conclusions that the other is red, then inside is green)
2. Lynch scummiest inside hood to see if it comes up green (if two people come up green in hood, it's p safe to say the rest are green, IMO)

Sure this is a brave stance to take, but hey, I like to take chances.

[Enter]

implosion's right, i just got excited... all these new mechanics i've never been part of before.

[Enter]

well, skitter is getting other townpoints in a more general sense too, but this has made me confident enough to call her a townread.

i remember reading Enter way back when he was Extrapolated_Eagle (is that correct, Enter)? so that may be subconsciously affecting my read.

Maybe. Your name looks familiar, but I just went through all the games on that account and I didn't see you or Not Chara there. Do you have another alt or did you hydra?

[Enter]

@skitter30
My sig is hidden (post count I believe) but you can view it on my profile, it has a link to my old account. However it is from 4/5 years ago, so. There's also a short game on this account.
Elsewhere, it's mostly IM games or live. Over all, not the most experienced.

If we get a red flip from the hood crew I'm fine going back there but until then it may as well be Chernobyl.

Until we're de facto masons? Sounds like a plan. Wouldn't vote on someone in there specifically to achieve this, though.

didn't you just say you were thinking there's a good chance the hood is all town? i know that's an obvious question, but.

Yes, but

there are two ways to approach this:
1. Lynch outside hood to see if it comes up red (if so, and we can draw conclusions that the other is red, then inside is green)
2. Lynch scummiest inside hood to see if it comes up green (if two people come up green in hood, it's p safe to say the rest are green, IMO)

Sure this is a brave stance to take, but hey, I like to take chances.

I'm sorry friend but both of those conclusions are terrible. Especially so if it turns out there's a third party.

Yeah, you're right. I just got excited. I don't remember playing anything other than VT so I got a little excited getting to be in a hood. (although my game history says I was in a hood game once? My memory is shoddy)

[Enter]

What is scum dt?

[Enter]

Wait nevermind, I'm dumb.

[Enter]

Maybe. Your name looks familiar, but I just went through all the games on that account and I didn't see you or Not Chara there. Do you have another alt or did you hydra?

i read a few games my friends were in before i started playing myself. Not Chara's join date is when i first started for real. i don't know if you remember A Real Scourge, she was one. your name was familiar enough that i found a game and remembered a few things that stood out. it was a while ago however so i don't plan on reading hazy memories of old games i read as meta. :>

Yeah, I sort of remember her. We were in SCP mafia together and maybe she was a hydra head in YCBA IV?

I honestly don't like trying to meta players that I haven't played with.

PEdit: You could join me on Persivul or BEF

[Enter]

Sorry, just means if we lynch people not in the neighborhood and we suspect the other person outside the neighborhood is the other scum, then everyone in the hood is town.
It was dumb, I know. I was just trying to find purpose for the neighborhood.

[Enter]

we suspect the other person outside the neighborhood is the other scum

So I'm reading this as Enter somehow knowing there are 2 scum in the game.

Am I nuts

I guess there could be three? IDK, what makes sense here?

[Enter]

actually no, i'm a fool.
VOTE: minyu
he's still voting skitter and liked my explanation.

Why is it bad to leave a vote on someone -even you no longer SR them- when: A) You have not thought of a better wagon to join, and B) the wagon you're on is

@L-5

???

+1.

[Enter]

Pretty opposed to pushing people getting replaced here. A chara wagon doesn't seem to bad right now, although I'm still a fan of the two more active members of my previously mentioned three if someone wants to join me there.

[Enter]

also i think 53 is kinda townie. i'm not really getting a projection of confidence, it feels kinda townie to me; i also don't really see baiting here

Alone this (BEF's 53) post seems NAI to me. In ISO, I get where Chara was coming from.

Devil's advocate: Chara switched her scum read because she wanted to be amiable => townread.

[Enter]

Robert cuz he's a lurker and I haven't seen him say anything that makes me think he's town.

And I'm townreading pinyu cuz pretty much this:

never played with pinyu. based on his unfamiliarity with forum mafia and reference to games like ToS (which was my guess) i think it's reasonable he could have some trouble here. i suppose he could be scum who doesn't know what he's supposed to do, but if we consider a scum pinyu i'd think he would at least drop a townread on somebody someone else said was town, or else take a cue from the scumbuddy he must have (assuming no daytalk).
it's a very weak read but enough that i prefer a different wagon.

[Enter]

this post feels scummy for a50

why? Esp following your response to chara.

[Enter]

not sure what my response to chara has to do with it

response to chara made me think she looked kinda scumsters to you

saying Almost21 looked scummy for scumsters on chara when you had just scumstered chara was what looked weird.

[Enter]

yeah, both of them are kinda scummy to me rn. on balance i think they probably aren't scum together tho

(ie at this stage of the game i don't see anything contradictory or problematic with seeing them both as scum)

I'm following. What's your imp read?

[Enter]

although slightly weirded out by him sheeping me on redtea like that tbh

Esp cuz she's town.

[Enter]

why's redtea town?
what do you think of me voting there?

It's hard to explain. A lot of my sorting happened in the hood, and basically we talked about her playstyle and stuff there - the big thing is she said something about being mislynched frequently and I jumped to a bunch of conclusions, including that it is probably based on the way she writes in her posts. I can see town motivation in what she's written in the game thread and in our PT.

Of your vote, it looks to me like you're trying to sort her, which is fine and makes sense to me. You haven't seen what I have, so figuring things out for yourself looks p towny.

[Enter]

Yeah I think there's like five of us in there. I don't remember how many I knew about when I made that post (I think four?). There might be even more, no one told us who all is in the hood, people just keep showing up.

[Enter]

also i think 53 is kinda townie. i'm not really getting a projection of confidence, it feels kinda townie to me; i also don't really see baiting here

Alone this (BEF's 53) post seems NAI to me. In ISO, I get where Chara was coming from.

Devil's advocate: Chara switched her scum read because she wanted to be amiable => townread.

? When did Chara switch her scumread on BEF (or are you talking about someone else)? What/who is the "=> townread" referring to?

Talking Robert to Minyu.

[Enter]

At the time I posted that question we were only aware of 3 people in the neighborhood.

??? You mean there's no list of neighborhood members on the OP of the neighborhood PT??

There is not.

[Enter]

At the time I posted that question we were only aware of 3 people in the neighborhood.

??? You mean there's no list of neighborhood members on the OP of the neighborhood PT??

There is not.

How do you know there "only" 4 members then???

There are five that we're aware of at this point in time, possibly more. It could be everyone except you for all we know.

Civ always disappoints me. I get all excited for the first 50+ turns of discovery and stuff, but then there's like only a handful of optimal strategies and so I go with one and the game becomes 'press next turn to win' for like 100+ more turns depending on how I decided to do it.

I just get disappointed with the other NPCs. I can never get lasting relationships with them.

[Enter]

So, your scum read on me is... playstyle doesn't vibe...

and your scum read on redtea is... she's too verbose? Ouch.

Please point out where she's 3p hunting.

I gotta admit, I wasn't a fan of your predecessor (not really posting anything at all, tbh), and the fact that you entered and your reasons are all made up and your reads don't matter doesn't make me like you any more.

VOTE: Elbirn

[Enter]

Honestly I don't like that your reads seem to boil down to : "I don't feel good" and I'd really like more explanations on everything, because what you've got is pretty lacking, but I'll be nice and start with specifics.

Please explain your implosion town read.

Also your chara town read.

[Enter]

Please point out where she's 3p hunting.

I'm sorry friend but both of those conclusions are terrible. Especially so if it turns out there's a third party.

@skitter30 because Almost50 has said just about nothing useful the entire game despite having a presence. Maybe he is third party?
Related to that
VOTE: Almost30
Until he decides to respond to me.

Thanks. Still town, and we should still lynch somewhere else.

[Enter]

Enter, what makes you so sure RedTea is town here
Are ya'll secret-fakeSons too?

I went over it earlier, some of it has to do with stuff in the hood.

But in essence, yes.

and your scum read on redtea is... she's too verbose? Ouch.

My scumread isn't because she's "verbose", that's not what I said. It's because she is talking a lot, but she is not saying anything. Which is a very different thing.

Honestly I don't like that your reads seem to boil down to : "I don't feel good" and I'd really like more explanations on everything, because what you've got is pretty lacking, but I'll be nice and start with specifics.

Please explain your implosion town read.

Also your chara town read.

Nah lol, I play by sense of smell and I've given you gold considering I just got here. Implosion and Chara are both visibly townie folk. Thats it. Reading them gave me good feelings in my tummy.

And as for you, I was trying to give you some benefit of the doubt in my reads, actually, and that you turned that into a vote on me is like what are you doing? It's kind of exactly my problem with you when I say we don't ~vibe~, I can't tell if your reads are bad and all of your hot-takes are bad because you're scum, or if you're just really enthusiastically and aggressively wrong. Maybe I'm not correct to think this way but I townread people who come to similar conclusions and when other players don't have my conclusions I'm then wondering why their thought process is so different from mine. Reading you in this thread thus far has consisted of me scratching my head and wondering what planet you hail from, and whether our differences are alignment based or play style based.

Sense of smell = I don't feel good

But whatever. I don't think it's playstyle I think we're aligned differently. Also if you read me from earlier, the only reason I said not to vote you was cuz your slot wasn't active, and now your slot is active, so I don't feel bad putting my vote on you. Especially because you keep reading the wrong people as town.

Still, if you would explain why you think Implosion is town, I'd be a big fan of you doing that, because I don't necessarily see what he's done at all.

[Enter]

1. the 3p thing has been mentioned by implosion already (and i maybe did too? i definitely noticed ti but id on't remember if i explicitly brought it up)

Ouch. I must have missed that.

2. i don't know why you're not scumreading and/or voting me for voting redtea when i'm also pushing her and brought up the verbose/not-actually-saying-anything point like eight pages ago

Couple things:
1. It's the style of response, his is p matter-of-fact, he says she's scum. Yours read like it was pushing reads. I want people to push reads and sort people, because I'm almost certain you'll reach similar conclusions to me on most things.
2. His reads list... I almost completely disagree with at a couple p monumental points (P zito, implosion, myself, readtea, persivul, and BEF isn't even on the list) and I don't see good reasons for him to be taking the stances he does => his reads seem made up to me.

was ISOing Zito and i can't remember if Enter replied to 301. if not, i'd like to see that.

Literally the post below it.

[Enter]

I guess there could be three? IDK, what makes sense here?

right, you did reply.
i'd guess three based on pure numbers. what made you think two?

I was thinking about a different setup at the time.

[Enter]

UNVOTE:

I was actually really mistake. I thought Elbirn was replacing Robert2424.

I still don't like his reads list/explanations, but I'm not going to call him scum off that alone for the time being.

VOTE: chara
Let's go back here.

[Enter]

UNVOTE:

I was actually really mistake

n

. I thought Elbirn was replacing Robert2424.

I still don't like his reads list/explanations, but I'm not going to call him scum off that alone for the time being.

VOTE: chara
Let's go back here.

EBWOP

[Enter]

HI, I'm not sure you're scum, but you're scummier than other people. I think your whole back and forth over minhyu was kind of ... it felt weird to me. By "back" I mean that I've put my vote on you before.

[Enter]

Didnt' realize deadline was so close. I'm down for BEF or Elbirn. Don't wanna lynch redtea.

VOTE: Elbirn

[Enter]

Alright my reads:

Town:
Redtea
mcqueen
Varsoon
Skitter

Townish:
Papa Zito

Nullish:
Robert2424
Imp
A50

Scummish:
Elbirn
Chara
Persivul

[Enter]

I need to pay more attention when I'm playing this game.

Chara is nullish. I would read her as town, but I don't like the Jazz around the minhyu vote.

BEF is the person who belongs down by Elbirn and persivul. I'm also ok w/ Robert2424 lynch, (he's been kinda scummy recently) but I really don't like lynching lurkers day one.

[Enter]

I'm willing to jump on Robert if needed but not really feeling elbirn. I'd also be willing to jump on Varsoon again. His posturing around the votelessness feels off-ish. Feels somewhat like scum saying "you're not allowed to suspect me now" so as to be allowed to coast through the early game for free. His reads list has a whole lot of "this is a person in the game and i have no strong/real opinions beyond this" to support that.

I agree with you on Varsoon, but I'm hesitant to Lynch him just because my gut says maybe he just talks funny. Very little he's said/done indicates strong scum to me, so I'd prefer if we didn't Lynch there today.

What makes you scumread Elbirn so hard?

And, really, a hesitation to townread any slot--can you go more into that? Even players like Zito and A50?

A50 what do you think of this post?

[Enter]

What makes you scumread Elbirn so hard?

And, really, a hesitation to townread any slot--can you go more into that? Even players like Zito and A50?

@A50
What do you think of the questions asked in this post?
What do you think of the implications of this post?
Did you see this post and not respond to it on your read through because it was not addressed to you, or did you just kind of skim over it and not feel like there was anything to not from this post?

[Enter]

I guess there could be three? IDK, what makes sense here?

right, you did reply.
i'd guess three based on pure numbers. what made you think two?

I was thinking about a different setup at the time.

Which setup were you thinking of?

The newbie game one. I feel uncomfortable discussing this as my mistake was due to me playing in multiple games.

[Enter]

What makes you scumread Elbirn so hard?

And, really, a hesitation to townread any slot--can you go more into that? Even players like Zito and A50?

@A50
What do you think of the questions asked in this post?
What do you think of the implications of this post?
Did you see this post and not respond to it on your read through because it was not addressed to you, or did you just kind of skim over it and not feel like there was anything to not from this post?

I did read it initially, and then once again when you asked me about it. Varsoon is not talking to me and I do not usually intervene when someone is engaging someone else in an apparent attempt to get a better read on them. It's not my place to interrupt the conversation between the two of them.

As for the questions, I think they convey a certain way of thinking that's going through Varsoon's head, and -again- it's his prerogative to express his thoughts however he feels best. He can imply he hard TRs a slot or is skeptical about another, or that he can't understand the logic behind someone else's argument.

My question is: WHY are you asking ME SPECIFICALLY about something VARSOON SAID. Why not ask him? Why didn't you ask Zito about them implications?

I'm asking you because you made this post right here:

If I had to pick a top TR right now, that would be

redtea

Almost50.

I wish there were more of your type, buddy. Thanks.

And I was wondering if you were specifically avoiding making a comment like this to Varsoon and so you chose to make the comment to someone else instead.

I personally don't understand why people are townreading you right now (Varsoon specifically) so Varsoon's post caught me off-guard and I wanted to ask him why he was townreading you, but I wanted to see if you'd respond to my questioning first.

@Varsoon. Explain pls.

[Enter]

There's nothing gut about it. Show me one redeeming post from that slot. One nugget that promotes a town agenda.

I can't.

VOTE: Robert2424

[Enter]

Don't break your neck from being so eager, Enter.

As stated like twice before, I'm OK with Robert, Elbirn, or Persivul. If people are waiting for Robert to be a viable Lynch, I'll give them that.

[Enter]

OK with and passionate for a lynch on scum are worlds apart for me.
You really don't have anyone you think is absolutely gonna flip red?

I think Elbirn, Robert, and Persivul will flip red. I don't feel strongly about it, though, if that's what you're asking.

[Enter]

Sorry I realize I've been inconsistent as crap, but I'm dealing with a couple mechanics I'm really not used to and it doesn't help that this game state is very... strange.

@Elbirn
No I did make a mistake and thought you replaced Robert. I still thought your post was scummy, but the fact that you replaced Minhyu made me think you should get a bit more of a chance. You didn't rectify it to the degree that I desired, hence, I continue to scumread you.

[Enter]

Sorry I realize I've been inconsistent as crap, but I'm dealing with a couple mechanics I'm really not used to and it doesn't help that this game state is very... strange.

@Elbirn
No I did make a mistake and thought you replaced Robert. I still thought your post was scummy, but the fact that you replaced Minhyu made me think you should get a bit more of a chance. You didn't rectify it to the degree that I desired, hence, I continue to scumread you.

UNVOTE:

I was actually really mistake. I thought Elbirn was replacing Robert2424.

I still don't like his reads list/explanations, but I'm not going to call him scum off that alone for the time being.

VOTE: chara
Let's go back here.

Didnt' realize deadline was so close. I'm down for BEF or Elbirn. Don't wanna lynch redtea.

VOTE: Elbirn

These posts were two hours apart, and I did not post anything in this time. Your reason for scumreading me again is that I didnt meet your standards of townliness in a very short time span during which I wasnt even playing the game?

Yep. I was still scumreading you, but my recognition of the time until deadline was heightened, and I realized I'd rather have you lynched than a lot of other people in the game.

[Enter]

Friendly reminder that deadline is in less than 2 days.

Friendly reminder that redtea is a bad lynch today.

[Enter]

I know you're working with me, PZ, I'm looking for support elsewhere. The worst part is she doesn't seem particularly interested in even keeping herself alive. :/

[Enter]

Something the players should look at is the fact that no one from our PT is voting for redtea right now.

[Enter]

Perambulate is starting to look more town to me. Hmm.

@redtea you should vote Robert.

@MOD I'm visiting family and moving overseas, so I'll be v/la until Feb 15

[Enter]

I didn't mean to quote that. :/

[Enter]

Persivul is starting to look more town to me. Hmm.

@redtea you should vote Robert.

@MOD I'm visiting family and moving overseas, so I'll be v/la until Feb 15

Ebwop

[Enter]

I didn't mean to quote that. :/

Hi. I have a question for you in 682. Please respond.

Hi. I'll direct you here:

Persivul is starting to look more town to me. Hmm.

@redtea you should vote Robert.

@MOD I'm visiting family and moving overseas, so I'll be v/la until Feb 15

Ebwop

[Enter]

2 in a row baby

2 what in a row?

[Enter]

Something the players should look at is the fact that no one from our PT is voting for redtea right now.

Why? It's not active. They should be on Robert over redtea because Robert's ISO sucks, tea's doesn't suck.

I'm noticing correlations between my reads and the people who have posted in my neighborhood.

2 in a row baby

2 what in a row?

Pagetops.

Ok, I'll take a trip on the insanity merry-go-round with you. What exactly has suddenly caused you to stop and ponder his alignment? Like, what sudden change in Persivul's posting made you hit the pause button and go hmm.

Haha, I'm not quite sure what you mean about insanity. What's insane about it?

I like persivul's 669, 671, 672, and 715. Partially because I agree with him, partially because he's making decent points, and partially because I'm townreading redtea and his thought process follows.

[Enter]

This is quite a long V/LA so I may still prod you, but i'll be a bit more lenient. Please aim to post every 48 hours if you can.

This should be achievable, just letting you know just in case.

Why should I walk you through Enter's post? He can do it himself.

These exchanges are golden.

[Enter]

Enter do you want to be masons? You and I are going to be masons. I changed my mind about Varsoon, you and I need to sort some things out

I'm ok with this. I'm feeling pretty shaky on my scum reads right now and it's intimidating that other players feel so confident. What do you need to tell me?

[Enter]

implosion already explained it in depth and skitter had talked about it before that.

Well you're wrong, let's lynch robert.

[Enter]

implosion already explained it in depth and skitter had talked about it before that.

Well you're wrong, let's lynch robert.

nah. he's being town. his arguments are bad, though.

Please explain.

can you say this sentence again? i'm not following what you're trying to say here

I'm noticing correlations between my reads and the people who have posted in my neighborhood.

[Enter]

Please explain.

high stubborness and low survivability. it's towny.

He seems more absent and apathetic than stubborn and not really caring about his survival. I might be tempted to agree with you on the survivability thing if it even looked like he was close to being lynched, and he doesn't have that frustration I expect from a townie.

[Enter]

Absence and apathy, BTW, are traits most commonly seen in scum, from my experience.

[Enter]

I know Zito wasn't asking me, but Persivul sounds like he's trying to lead people along, and using the pressing deadline to obfuscate the sudden push.
Would rather lynch him, actually. Decent SR on him anyway. This doesn't have to do with any read on Robert, for the record. This could easily be a bus.
VOTE: Persivul
More pending

contrasting redtea here who may have mad a subpar decision to try and start a new wagon, but is still happily open to the possibility of lynching Robert.

redtea shows less survivability than robert.

[Enter]

if this flips town i'm pushing like everyone currently on the robert wagon tomorrow - elbirn + redtea

Did you mean what you said here?

[Enter]

yep

So you're saying that you're mad about not lynching redtea, but if the wagon opposing redtea flips town, you won't push redtea anymore?

[Enter]

? maybe i didn't convey what i'm saying well because i don't think either of you understood me

if robert flipped town i'd push: persivul, enter, papa zito and redtea
i would not push elbirn because i'm pretty sure he's town even though he's voting badly

Oh. Yes I didn't understand the first time. I follow now.

it's also worth it to note that i just spectated a game with scum Robert. his scumplay wasn't especially strong and all of his stances were weak, it felt like he was more just trying to go through the motions. the emotion that's here is missing as well.
i'm not saying i'm metaing him on one game, what i did was read him here first, and then go and check the other game and find it consistent.

saying "screw you" to the majority of the playerlist (not in so many words but rather in action) is something i find fairly towny. i also don't take disengagement or apathy as scummy, Enter, seeing as i see town do it unfortunately often.

Are you saying he does have emotion in this game? Because I don't really see it. Maybe a couple faint glimmers, but not much more than that - nothing that feels real.

[Enter]

Can you give me the redtea case in your own words please?

not a townread, and lower than a nullread. counter to a wagon i think is town. soft stances that don't commit and soft support of the Robert wagon.

Explain the "counter to a wagon i think is town," because if you mean what I think you mean, this part is laughable and that makes the rest of your case look flimsy and fake.

And as far as soft push on Robert, I'm not seeing a strong case for Robert scum either. I don't see a strong case for anyone as scum. It's just the absence of a case for me to read him town, and he's one of the people I'm not reading as town right now.

Also I refuse to allow a redtea push as much as it is in my power, because she is my strongest town read.

Are you saying he does have emotion in this game? Because I don't really see it. Maybe a couple faint glimmers, but not much more than that - nothing that feels real.

i do, and emotion reading is one of the few things i'm confident in. and yes, scum can be emotional.
we can agree to disagree but i'll assert it's definitely there in the posts i quoted. there's an energy and a belief he's spouting, and one that doesn't seem directed to a scum agenda. i think he's a bad lynch.

mcqueen: i've been focussing entirely on the two wagons since i got back. i have a townread on Robert and a scumread on redtea. the scumread isn't as strong as i'd like but it's there and i plan to push it until deadline hits.

you're town, skitter's town, Almost might be town (will come back to this), Elbirn's town, imp is town. i see the arguments for town Fish but i haven't given him a good look in a bit and don't know where my read is. rest of the list is in reads purgatory until i re-orient myself.

i have very limited time so i'm focussing on what's immediately important.

I'm not saying scum can't be emotional, I'm saying robert is not.

[Enter]

Also I refuse to allow a redtea push as much as it is in my power, because she is my strongest town read.

and this is why you're townish, and also why i don't think our conversation is going to get anybody anywhere, as i really disagree on redtea being a strong townread.

i also hard disagree on Robert not being emotional. if you don't see it there's nothing i can do.

Yeah, alright. :/

would it be better if i clarified that by emotional i don't mean he's screaming at anyone, i mean that i can see a human with opinions and attitude that is just posting those things.

I'm bad with emotions so that should be noted, but yes, this helps? I don't disagree as strongly, I guess.

[Enter]

Bad Lynch > No Lynch > Very Bad Lynch.

Redtea is a Very Bad Lynch. Allow me to say what I know if you put her at L-1.

[Enter]

Bad Lynch > No Lynch > Very Bad Lynch.

Redtea is a Very Bad Lynch. Allow me to say what I know if you put her at L-1.

Anyone down for an Enter lynch? This is not the 1st or 2nd time he has promised info at a later point only to fail to deliver. Now he is stating he has info that would stop a redtea lynch 5 hours from deadline...

It's way too late in the day for vague fake promises enter.

Quit acting scummy if you're town and put your vote on Robert.

[Enter]

Enter, there's really not much time for wink-wink nudge-nudge.

I can't full claim on day one, but I have information about redtea. If we flip her right now it is worse than flipping Robert. Let's pretend we don't know either alignment. Redtea flips town is much, much worse for town than Robert flipping town.


And the last minute push by BEF is scummy AF if Robert flips scum.

[Enter]

Enter, there's really not much time for wink-wink nudge-nudge.

I have information about redtea.

Share your info or shut up about it.

Sure does suck to have your scum buddy on the line in danger of a Lynch, doesn't it?

[Enter]

Because I know for the doc won't be saving you tonight. Better give us all your info now before you will probably be NK'd after practically claiming a PR.

Stop. PR. Fishing.

[Enter]

Redtea please vote Robert.

[Enter]

It should be noted that BEF was on in time to vote and did not.

[Enter]

from your perspective of wanting Robert lynched, of course it is. because he's the only other option.

i'll hammer since we're out of time.

Who else were we going to Lynch? We had time, I pushed other reads, I told people not to Lynch her. I'm not interested in outing myself every time someone looks at someone all squinty eyed.

[Enter]

Wp, scum!

[Enter]

I don't know about calling Lovers a town claim, which is why I never publicly claimed it. I knew I was town, though, and I didn't know the alignment of redtea. I honestly thought she might be scum, but it was better to not flip her day one unless we were sure of it.

[Enter]

At this point I think it's probably better that we Lynch anti-town play than allow it to live just because we townread it. Letting play like BEF's in this game survive to lylo because we decided he might not be scum and voted elsewhere lost us the game in the long run. I'm not entirely sure, but I would like to see some discussion on sacrificing possible town reads over lynching other stronger town players on the idea that numbers alone will win us the game.

[Enter]

geez man. You don't have to scum hunt anymore.

I'm sorry, it's nothing personal. I'm just trying to figure out if it's really optimal to let someone live based solely on the fact that they're townread.

[Enter]

Like the fact that I snapped at you was bad, too. I'm just using you as an example because you lived long enough to push the possibility that my point might carry weight to it.

At this point I think it's probably better that we Lynch anti-town play than allow it to live just because we townread it. Letting play like BEF's in this game survive to lylo because we decided he might not be scum and voted elsewhere lost us the game in the long run. I'm not entirely sure, but I would like to see some discussion on sacrificing possible town reads over lynching other stronger town players on the idea that numbers alone will win us the game.

I agree, but few others do. Personally I'd PL A50 D1 if I could. All the lies add confusion, and confusion benefits scum. It wasn't very difficult to whip up a lynch on him when we needed to.

Yeah. Just having a player that has been eating at the back of your mind as possibly being scum really gets to you, especially if you get to LyLo. I'm starting to think I'd rather reach LyLo a lot sooner with a town block than really late with a bunch of maybe-town.

[Enter]

I'm not trying to call for PL of specific players. I fully expect the next game with BEF to be a lot better. I'm more asking about this specific situation.

[Enter]

Yeah mass claiming is a weird concept for me. I have like one game total experience with it (this one) but I definitely don't like it as of right now.

[Enter]

I think there's been a general falling away from solid and town play over the past couple years. Tolerance for bad play seems to have gone up quite a bit, resulting in allowing newer town players who are playing poorly to live while lynching stronger town players because they're harder to read either way. I'm trying to address this, but going back to lynch all liars is probably a good idea. I think it's important that we don't bounce to the other extreme, though, and start lynching players like Papa Zito for lying by omission or myself for pushing wagons I don't believe in because both of those are pro-town when done correctly, I think.

[Enter]

For the first time in several months, I am not active in any games! I think being constantly in games these past few months kinda took it's toll. It will be nice to get a fresh start in my next game.

Yeah. I've been in that place before. The break will be nice, the time to reflect should be relaxing, and your next game will probably be a lot better. I believe in you.

[Enter]

lynching players like Papa Zito for lying by omission

? What did I lie about?

You didn't. You just kept your reads hidden.