Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[Morning Tweet]

hi Kanna hi Tux hi beeboy and hi midway!

VOTE: votato

and hey there votato (^ω^)♡

[Morning Tweet]

thank uu!

[Morning Tweet]

On page 1 I like that Dunnstral calls midway always scum but sheeps his vote anyway in his first post lol -- I think calling skitts overly cheery is an incredibly weak case but that doesn’t make someone scum

I see that Dunn doubles down on it which could be interpreted as scummy -- Skitts, lilith, and votato all do to some degree, but i disagree. Also 49 lol I like his reaction

i dunno. anti-town play most often comes from town. but i suppose dunns play wasnt really anti-town. i just see that sort of bad push coming more often from overzealous town trying to get day 1 moving than from scum pushing a mislynch. if dunn is scum then im tempted to say skitter is also scum and this was a distancing play.

yea pretty much this. Although the distancing theory is a stretch

Oo Dunn moves to lilith. I thought lilith came out looking a bit better than skitts/votato. I like her interpretation of votato both defending Dunn but also still voting him, although i do that myself sometimes because if i think someone is scummy, i want the case to be straight and in order

either way, a dunn vote is the vastly superior vote at this time imo

why?! :C

pedit: OH NO i forgot about S_S

hi lilith ! and WTF hi skitts ! i missed everybody that time

[Morning Tweet]

I'll be honest I don't like reading into 1v1s themselves I've always found that to be kind of garbage but things surrounding 1v1s like the post above tend to be very alignment indicative. Scum tend to not be concerned about players outside said 1v1.

My thought on Lilith goes together with her push on Dunnstral being relatively acceptable as well

how do you weigh that against lilith kinda playing both sides in the 1v1. like i agree with your reasoning, but im still getting pings from lilith stirring stuff up on both sides of the fight.

I observed lilith sort of playing both sides -- She chimed in against both Dunn (34) and skitts (47) but I can easily see town lilith acknowledging different parts of the 1v1, it's not like you have to solely agree w/ one person. On the surface level maybe it's scummy but i didnt interpret it that way

Also did she even really do it past that point anyway? seems like you're making a big deal out of it but i mightve missed what you were referring to

[Morning Tweet]

hi!!

wait, where’s SS? he’s not in this game o.O

The hydra.. hm...

Limit! Yes! I don't know why i thought the hydra was abbreviated SS. oohh noo i incorrectly townread you very hard in that game

[Morning Tweet]

like it just feels very hollow and i think he's aware of that
if he had backed down and said something like 'yeah i just picked something dumb to push you for to propel the game out of rvs' i would have been fine with that and probably dropped it, but he doubled down, which makes me think he's treating this as a legitimate/valid reason to scumread me, and i have hard time seeing him actually believe that

also hi mt!!!

Don't you think it's more likely that he'd pretend like it's something big in an attempt to get a response? i'd have been surprised if he backed down so early, in fact, I don't think I agree it's scummy at all

a lot of people don't openly admit their pushes are weak early on. It's actually funny sometimes how big the gap between how good the push is and how confident someone is about it. I think he was playing it up in an attempt to sort you, so it doesn't really make sense to see it as town!Dunn backs down and scum!dunn doubles down

If this were later in the day I'd say your point has merit, i like finding scum that can't seriously believe what they're saying, but for an RVS push I think at worst its null but i kinda like his insistence on it even if it's giving him flak for it

[Morning Tweet]

Hey MT o//
How are you doing?

hia beeboy ヽ(^ω^)/

i'm a little sick today and i may be in too many games, but im doing alright! how's it going for u?

[Morning Tweet]

Am I the only one who is getting like, no scum pings from Dunnstral/Skitter/Lilith/Votato? I got townie pings from the first 3 and nothing from Votato. Just me? Okay.

no mate not just you

I like Dunn and Lilith but i'm undecided on the other two. I know that skitts is a great scum player (and i'm 0-1 against her) so im predicting ill gonna have a rough time reading her

votato however is my lovely unicorn friend so i feel more confident about him. i know all of his dirty secrets!

[Morning Tweet]

Am I the only one who is getting like, no scum pings from Dunnstral/Skitter/Lilith/Votato? I got townie pings from the first 3 and nothing from Votato. Just me? Okay.

no mate not just you

I like Dunn and Lilith but i'm undecided on the other two. I know that skitts is a great scum player (and i'm 0-1 against her) so im predicting ill gonna have a rough time reading her

votato however is my lovely unicorn friend so i feel more confident about him. i know all of his dirty secrets!

we dont need to go talking about my horn. also i dont think either of us has ever been scum in a game together yet right? (N=2 is perhaps insufficient data). but you wouldnt be scum around me would you morning?

of course! it's safe with me (・ω<)

You're always scum unless i'm in the game with you. i once read that you dislike bussing in a scum chat i think. So you're basically an open book to me now

[Morning Tweet]

Like how does what I’ve said constitute “stirring up both sides”?

@Votato @MT I spoke about why I disagreed with you on this and I am wondering why you think she is playing both sides.

Ehh she kind of made points against both skitts and Dunn. She said she was paranoid of how excited skitts seems but also voted Dunn and said scum's play doesn't have to be optimal (referring to Dunn)

Overall i dont find it scummy, probably it's towny since she was being fair to both sides and not just picking one side and tunneling it, which i'd find more scummy.

Also, clover ebi is using a lot of emojis. I think this could be because he is nervous and paranoid about his posts.

HEY! that can be hurtful (lll-ω-)

Also, wtf -- this comes a bit after Lilith started a push on Clover that votato joined. You didnt mention Clover in your catchup post. what prompted you to theorize out of the blue that clover is using emojis to hide nervousness? Just seeing a couple of emojis?

[Morning Tweet]

Wow, sorry I'm so late to the party guys. This game is moving fast. I don't like Beeboy's entrance at all. It seems to try and derail the momentum building on Dunn, before swinging into to defend him when he starts posting content. What's up with that? Why did you want people to say hi so much?

VOTE: Beeboy

Wait, so you're scumreading beeboy for trying to get ppl to say hi? is this gonna be the dunn scumreading exclamation mark thing again?

It's not my only take but it's the one I wanted to start with.

Spoiler:

I am waiting for someone to say hey hey back before I play >:(

None of those are Hey heys but I'll read up.

I am waiting for someone to say hey hey back before I play >:(

Hi!!!! you remind me of some pokemon games!

The Radja ones or something else o:

My hey heys have been satisfied.

By nature Dunnstral is a very reserved scum. I have only seen him play scum once since my return where he matched that playstyle I expected. So I want to say he is town even if his skitter push is a bit odd

Beeboy's first five posts are nothing. And I consider them a deliberate distraction because he actually demands they get attention and responses. After the thread has slowed down to just say hi and talk about fluff with him then he jumps in with a weak defense of Dunnstral.

Like he doesn't say that this game is different from scum Dunnstral he's seen. He says that "by nature" Dunnstral scum doesn't play like this. Implying he's almost incapable of it, and it's based on only one game. It feels much stronger than evidence supports.

@Votato are you having fun this game?

This is the first time i'm not getting townpings from Tux's entrance to a game (we've played two where we've both been town prior). Yeah beeboy's first five posts are mostly nothing. Calling them a deliberate distraction is a HUGE stretch in my opinion. why would scum!beeboy feel the need to interrupt RVS interactions?

[Morning Tweet]

@Tuxedo; wrt to your points on beeboy, why is that *scummy*? what is your theory, that beeboy/dunnstral are a team?

Could be a team, could be white knighting. Just what I feel is the game was moving fast and revolving around Dunnstral wagon. Beeboy comes in and really try to pull the conversation off game stuff, and then hops in with a defense of Dunn. Neither of these things on their own would have pinged me, but together it feels like a good place to start. Like if Beeboy posted fluff and then hopped on the Dunn wagon I wouldn't feel they were trying to derail, or if they just hopped on with a defense of Dunn it probably wouldn't have stuck out, but the two together feels calculated(?).

@Dunnstral how do you feel about Beeboy?

I'm finding it hard to believe that fluff posting + defense = scumteam. I suppose i see what you're getting at but i don't think id put much stock in that theory.

I feel like it's very likely beeboy would've had that fluffy entrance as either alignment. Calling it a deliberate distraction is a stretch -- I don't expect scum!beeboy to think "Ah, my teammate is under fire. Bring out the 'heyheyhey', quick!"

All while not holding a scum read on the player you think I am defending?

I wouldn't be voting you if you were vocally scum reading Dunnstral. It's just without that step I think an already iffy case just has a clear logic error you seem to want to avoid.

Did you realize between these two I hadn't expressed any reads besides the one on you?

Anyways, my read of your actions can be independent of Dunn. Could be stepping up to defend a townie when no one else was, and could be trying to defend your partner. I don't know, but I find your actions scummy.

Also, your response feels like you're trying to avoid and OMGUS while still going after me. Like you wait till Kanna votes me first before you jump in. I don't see what changed from my first posts to now to warrant this vote, besides other players expressing doubt in my read.

Anyone can defend anybody. Saying "I don't know there's a plethora of possible scum motivations behind it" doesn't work for me. What incentive does scum!beeboy have to defend a townie when no one else was? And i mean there were other people defending dunn as far as i remember

I don't like this double down at all. I feel you should be noticing that your points aren't really adding up but instead you add an extra theory on that kinda assumes beeboy is scum more than it shows he is scum

VOTE: Tuxedo

[Morning Tweet]

Tuxedo's initial argument on beeboy is not a good one in my opinion. I think the hey-hey was meant to be a joke, and it didn't really derail the game in my opinion. Besides, it's an attention grabbing entrance that I don't think scum would take. beeboy's defense of Dunnstral was more of a thought, and it also provided good discussion because Lilith had recently played in a game where Dunnstral wasn't like that.
I like that beeboy seems to be reading tux in good faith by letting him talk about other reads.
Tux's entrance is very similar to dunnstral's because they both picked bad reasons to scumread someone. Not liking him as of now.

this is a better midway post. At least echoes my own thoughts

And lol you are right in the last sentence, but what separates this for me is that we're not really in RVS and it's less blatant than "You used exclamation points". It feels like Tux is trying to make beeboy scum more than he's convincing me why beeboy is scum

[Morning Tweet]

i'm surprised Nahdia is finding beeboy scummy. Also found Clover scummy? Interesting, it's really chainsaw-y but it's too obvious, i would think. For example 191 is discrediting midways defense of beeboy / suspicion of Tux but not really commenting on it itself

Am I the only one who is getting like, no scum pings from Dunnstral/Skitter/Lilith/Votato? I got townie pings from the first 3 and nothing from Votato. Just me? Okay.

scumposting.

VOTE: Clover Ebi

Why?!

im getting weird vibes

was there gonna be any followup to this

@dunn asked you a question earlier. do you still stand by the reasoning you gave for the early skitter push? is there any more context?

Nahdia why do you think that post by me was scum?

uhhh actually i misread it. i thought it said you were getting no pings on anyone, not that you were townreading them. my impression was that you were excusing yourself from forming reads

VOTE: beeboy

Why?

overreaction to tux.

is that it? What is your opinion on Tuxes' case itself?

[Morning Tweet]

Oh i see now. I did not like how Nahdia called Clover scummy for just having townreads -- i see that they mentioned it was a misunderstanding. Today i understand what Nahdia is saying a bit better now, but I disagree-- I thought Tux was primarily focused on the 1v1 at the time, beeboy wasn't making that up

and suddenly beeboy is smearing him as "centering all his content around this 1v1" (I explained why this doesn't make sense)

tbh i feel like this is more you smearing beeboy than beeboy smearing tux
like he's right, tux was largely engaging wrt beeboy and not doing much else
i'm not sure i agree with the connotation (i.e. that it's scummy taht tux is doing such) but i'm also not sure it's scummy of beeboy to say this either, because i can understand why beeboy felt that way

also i feel like 188 is a townie reaction to what you said about beeboy's push, no?

also you're right in that you dropped your clover push, i retract that part of my push

okay well i dont understand why beeboy felt that way. or at least, i dont see why town decides it's a reason someone is scum. hence a stretch.

Kind of weird we're talking about pushes that are stretches, but you haven't commented on Tuxes' push itself which i thought was the

real

stretch. Maybe you missed me asking in 234, or do you not have an opinion on it?

[Morning Tweet]

glares at Tux

(►˛◄’!)

i was liking tux more while skimming in bed actually

[Morning Tweet]

I'm not the only one getting funky vibe from tux am i? You feel a little bit different here tux. I haven't seen you analyze the minutiae of peoples posts to this extent before

This is exactly what i was feeling yesterday. The past couple of times Tux came out swinging and he was my first townread two consecutive games in a row (although in Treestump i think i was alone on that. hmph)

Like in kill switch he started off proposing we don't discuss reads and that we simply use consensus on whether or not to activate the switches. In Treestump, he theorized that we could confirm a player or two as town as long as Chem was town (on the early L-1 wagon), since scum would simply quick hammer.

Actually thinking about that now, those were both related to special setup mechanics. Maybe the setup not having special mechanics is changing how he opens -- Obviously that doesn't change how he did stand out as townie in those games but it makes me wonder

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: dunn and votato

When you scumread me early and then townread me but kept your vote on me, and then later when pressure stayed on me you said 'the logical conclusion is that Dunn is scum' or something to that effect

i think i concluded that you were likely town?

i think skitter is town and lilith is prolly townish, but i think for lilith ill wait until later to sort her. i get solid townpings from votato. perhaps my strongest townread. something is off for sure about dunnstral. the logical conclusion is that dunn is scum.

My eyes are drawn to my name like a moth is drawn to a flame which provokes a primal rage that makes me not read the surrounding posts. Why are you talking about yourself like that in that post?

It's almost like that post was meant for somebody else to post...

My eyes are drawn to my name like a moth is drawn to a flame which provokes a primal rage that makes me not read the surrounding posts. Why are you talking about yourself like that in that post?

It's almost like that post was meant for somebody else to post...

You're being silly. I pretty frequently include myself in early game read lists and say i townread myself

as for the part of my realist directed at you I'm not sure what i meant tbh. You're in my townpile, and i think you were at that point too

i think the logical conclusion was that dunn was scum but the logic was wrong? I think i posted that before going into a meeting yesterday and may have hit submit prematurely. It doesn't make sense

Lol what? I don't know how "something is off for sure about dunnstral. the logical conclusion is that dunn is scum." can possibly translate to votato townreading Dunn at the time.

I think that votato genuinely didn't mean to word it that way (as he says), which means he did likely townread Dunn consistently. OH! That means that votato was going off of his memory of his reads rather than searching back through his posts. Because if he were to look back in an attempt to keep it consistent, he'd see that he was scumreading Dunn earlier. Instead he said what was in his head without looking back, then doubled down on that as being correct when asked

of course, scum doesn't have to look back to check their reads. But keeping track to make sure their story is consistent is something i expect scum to do at least sometimes, and votato wasn't doing that here.

[Morning Tweet]

Well since every single player has joined in to call me wrong for my suspicions of you, it is at the very least NAI to disagree with me.

As for specifics, when it comes to the Dunnstral, Lilith, Skitter, Votato early wagon group, I think Lilith comes out looking the best. MT feels like town MT I've played with before, even if hurts to be on receiving end of their wrath (I do feel intimidated Hectic). Kanna gives me tonal pings, and it might be influenced that they seem to be the first player I seem to have gotten through to somewhat this game. Which might not be the best reason, but it feels good to be seen.

Nahdia seems to be talking about out of both sides of their mouth. They seem to agree with everyone my Beeboy case was trash, yet they go after you for how you respond to it. It felt weird, but their elaboration since has felt better.

Also how should i have responded to your question about enjoying the game? Had i not said it was nai you'd think i was scum for enjoying the game. Since i said it you think im scum for pointing it out. That's conf bias

That's fair. I guess I more expected town you do something goofy? Even encourage me scum reading you for it? Instead, you gave a bland serious answer.

This is better posting by Tux. I specifically like how he calls Nahdia's elaboration since better (rather than just give a blanket statement that nahdia is scum, especially when many have expressed suspicions on Nahdia recently). I also see what he means with votato

I don't really get votato's read on tux. It seems to me like he is calling him out for not playing like town tux, but also not willing to call him scum.

there were some posts that didnt seem like town!tux. but recently it has been town!tux. at first i was getting scumpings, but the read turned around and im pretty confident in saying that tux is town atm.

Pretty confident you say? Townblock confidence? I have Tux towards the high end of my town inclines, maybe a full town lean now

My main problem this game is it's page 13 and I have no confident scumreads yet whew. Am I giving too much leeway perhaps? Na, this'll change soon probably. Also MS why are you acting so weird

do you usually have scumreads this early, or is this normal for you to mostly just have townreads?

[Morning Tweet]

Tux and Votato are the closest to people I would vote/have voted and since Votato doesn't bus I was curious how they'd react to each other. Don't really know if I got the results I wanted though this game is super odd.

I'm gonna go lay down because I'm starting to talk myself into scumreading slots because the fact I don't have any strong ones yet is weirding me out/bothering me so much when really the game just started and it shouldn't be that big a deal.

Ooh I like these. Sounds a lot like how i feel in some games. I could see people interpreting this as scummy, but i find that it's really difficult to get decent scumreads D1 as town. maybe more than scum

tux is town. lilith is town? kanna is a bit townie based on first impression. but again, need a lot more content. morning is townish, but need a bit more. im less confident in morning being town than most games. could be the gamblers fallacy making me skeptical, or maybe its something else. but town for now. skitter gives me townvibes, but need to see more content. beeboy gives early townvibes? but has been strange. its page 13, so thats about all youre gonna get. that leaves a PoE of
{clover, midway, nahdia, raven, drusilla}. midway im not willing to lynch at this stage, but mostly because hes LHF and will probably be obvscum later on if scum. im happy leaving my vote on clover pending content from the other slots.

Hm i mostly agree with this. It feels like a lot of players this game have similar reads, with maybe Clover and votato being the most controversial ? Both are some of my more liked townreads

Leantown on Tux. Votato, Dunn, and Clover i'm inclined to think are town as well. I have lilith there too but i forget exactly why.

Skitts gave me townvibes in our previous game enough to hold me off of her wagon when it really should've been obvious :X She has a handicap where i set her a bit down in my reads on purpose cause i think regardless of alignment she's going to trick me at least once or twice

Beeboy I mostly recall fluffposting as well as engaging with Tuxes scumread which i agree wasn't well founded, however, i think it's not inherently towny to think that since it felt pretty clear. Oh I do lightly like 296 though since he's fair to both Tux and Nahdia

i don't know anything about midway's scumgame but i am a bit wary of lynching them early as well based off my previous game with him

[Morning Tweet]

This is better posting by Tux. I specifically like how he calls Nahdia's elaboration since better (rather than just give a blanket statement that nahdia is scum, especially when many have expressed suspicions on Nahdia recently). I also see what he means with votato

how do you feel about tuxedo mask disengaging from both votato and beeboy?

Was there more to talk about with regards to beeboy? I recall Tux wrapping that up since it seemed most people disagreed. It didn't seem like it was going anywhere to me

With votato hmm. Do you mean 286? votato had just said "well i townread you now lets townblock" and tux replied "We'll see" and asked a question. I don't think i see what you're getting at

[Morning Tweet]

why is everyone afraid to lynch me because of my town meta? I just want to be townie for once

is that smiley hiding some deeper sense of nervousness? Be honest, i can sense emotion through emoticons (¬‿¬)

[Morning Tweet]

@mod i'm going to be VLA till Sunday

[Morning Tweet]

Lilith asked me for my current PoE on page 21 ! Here it is as i’m rereading that page:

{Lilith}
{Votato, Tuxedo}
{Clover, Skitts}
{Dunn}
..
{Beeboy, drusilla}
{Kanna, midway, Raven, Nahdia}

Spoiler: some notes

Votato/Starbuck’s weird disconnect with how he wrote his read of Dunn and how he recalled it in his mind feels town (i explain this in 338). I liked his reads decently as well. Him keeping Clover in the scum pile would have been mildly concerning had i not townread him. I recall at least one other person not liking that as well -- I think their suspicion of that was well founded but i think this outweighs his pocket clover scumread


Agree with Skitts’ positioning on lilith, I think lilith is just town here from her saying this is out of her scumrange combined with skitts saying there’s more “heft” in this game than her usual scumgame. Skitts’ take on drusilla is a pretty good look since it's a slot i don't think ive seen talked about much. Think if skitts is scum it’s definitely not with Nahdia at least.


Yeah i think i’ve decided that Lilith is town today. Additionally if she is scum, i feel like it’s something that’ll become more clear with time, if skitts/lilith’s takes on her meta are to be believed

Holy shit 512 dawns on me how much content lilith has been creating

I see that lilith actually wanted to hear the exact same thing from Nahdia that i did. And nahdia quotes their response to me to her lol (519)

I haven’t really made up my mind on the bottom half. I would probably vote Nahdia first (at least, if it still were page 21) since so many players took stances on them and it’d be more informational than Raven/Kanna/midway imo. Idk if they’re the most likely to be scum yet though

i am going to complete the reread hopefully on sunday since ill be gone tomorrow. I have a little more time tonight to comment on anything if anybody has something they'd like to point out

UNVOTE:

[Morning Tweet]

I am really sorry i havent been able to reread, i have needed more time than i though. I am near certain lilith is town this game so my preemptive guess is i will scrutinize whoever was pushing her earlier

For now,

VOTE: Raven

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: reads

Town Read //
Clover

Town Lean //
Lilith
Skitts
Tuxedo

Town Incline //
Kanna
Midway
Starbuck

Unsure, but less preferred //
Raven

Unsure //
Beeboy
Drusilla

Negative //
Dunn
Nahdia

Spoiler: explanations

Out of everyone in the game, the scumflip that would surprise me the most is Clover. He feels like the most obviously genuine player to me. This might be because I approach the game similarly to him (townread many) and run into a lot of the same problems (can’t decide where to place a vote, feel unable to take stances on some players). 584, 586, 768, and 777 are all examples of posts that ping towny to me. In 777 specifically he forgets who he has even been voting, which is something I have done as town on D1 -- as scum, i usually keep track of all the stances i’ve been taking and votes, but as town it’s more loose to where i open myself up to forgetting

Lilith has repeated multiple times that this game is way out of her scumrange, even early on. Making this claim so aggressively with players who know your scumgame (Skitts) seems like a scumplan that would fall apart quickly. Her play reminds me of Zoey’s Extraordinary mafia where she was nightkilled the first night for being a town leader and the most obvious town. However I did fail to take into account that her scumgame is super strong (City That Never Sleeps), so it is possible she is being deceptive about her abilities. I lean strongly against that, though, and skitts verifying it vindicates me a bit. For the time being taking into account how I haven't been pinged by anything of Lilith's, the pushback against her she's been getting, as well as her reaction to me sheeping her, i am comfortable with her as town.

Skitts reads line up decently with my PoE. I think that scum right now are likely to push skitts for “tunneling” on Nahdia, if they aren’t already. I lightly feel scum!skitts is more likely to do more than just push Nahdia for the entirety of D1, but I can definitely see town!skitts feeling like she's onto something and pursuing it. This is different from Dunn staying on skitts for the exclamation mark thing for so long. In City That Never Sleeps i didn’t really agree with Skitts but she townpinged me enough to hold me at bay. This game i’m actually vibing more with her takes, and one i recall not agreeing with (Nahdia/Raven being partnery) she amended to something I more agree with (likely TvS).

Tux is sort of like my read on Clover, but somewhat weaker. I haven’t particularly agreed with him or seen him as the obvious town during his opening like I did in our previous games. His second half though makes me feel better. I can recall Tux feeling paranoid about his own wagon in Kill Switch such as he does 593, and I’m willing to bet it’s something he genuinely feels paranoid about as town. I guess it’s kind of “woe is me” as someone mentioned, but i think Tux is more overwhelmed town than scum. At worst he'd be around null but i believe in my current theory having him as town

Midway’s 756 felt genuine to me. Dunn calls him out for awkwardly vote parking, so he unvotes and just doesn’t vote anybody. This is more of a far out read I suppose though. 775 he doesn’t even know his own reasoning for his own reads. I suppose this could be a lazier scum tactic but I’m leaning against that being the case. I lightly like his attempt at reading drusilla in 815. I think if midway is town there’s going to be a scum push on him as a diversion at some point in this game.

Kanna feels like she wants to be right about skitts to me. I read her confusion about skitts drawing the associative between Nahdia/Raven as genuine, and considering she’s not alone on this i take it that different people are interpreting “association” differently. I think she feels like she has something on skitts, which makes me inclined to think she’s town. This is in contrast to those (raven/nahdia) joining her on skitts, who i feel SHOULD see what skitts is getting at.

Starbuck is a carry-over read from her predecessor, who i elaborated on already (338). Her catchup hasn’t struck out to me too much, although I lightly like her agreeing with me during the RVS stage on Tux and i like her townread of Clover

Raven’s responses to the Nahdia/Raven pressure have felt odd to me. She has denied skitts case having any merit where i felt like even if I disagreed with Nahdia/Raven being partnery, i could see exactly what skitts is talking about. Additionally i dont see the scum motivation for implicating two (presumably from Raven’s PoV) townplayers as scum together. 720 is very self conscious although probably not enough for a scumread alone. 796 worries that I’m buddying lilith, which I feel is sort of a shallow read of my post. I pretty much said “I townread lilith the most, nyEH!” and voted Raven, who lilith was voting. That’s sort of what i was doing, although i’d call it “Proxying” my vote to lilith while i was unavailable to play. I think it’s likely there’s scum in Nahdia/Raven, but i don’t think it’s both. Raven I will admit sometimes i glossed over her posts towards lilith/skitts cause it went on for so long, whereas what I’ve seen of Nahdia i haven’t liked so much -- That’s why i’ve tentatively placed Raven upwards

Beeboy I can recall a lot of players townreading although I don’t exactly see why yet. I think it’s possible that if we have the majority of the scum PoEd, beeboy would be the one that slipped out into the townbin, but this might be my own failure to townread him. I quite agree with 851 about the nature of the game though

Drusilla is really difficult for me to get a read on -- Although I will note that i didnt realize who she was until after i was just about done reading. Oops. She’s a really intelligent player, i would not be surprised at either alignment at this point. I did lightly like 818 because it felt like she had a clear belief in place when she said she thought beeboy/Kanna were trying to find wagons that stick (rather than just making shit up)

Early game I liked what Dunn was doing to sort skitts although now i don’t really have anything. I don’t even remember reading over hardly any of his posts during my reread ??? disagree with his lilith vote, don’t like the midway vote much either. Could easily see him with Nahdia/Raven-- I just don’t really know where Dunn’s stances are anymore.

For Nahdia i didn’t get the beeboy thing because it was kinda disassociated with the thread which i didnt find scummy on its own although with skitts taking it as a scumtell it makes me feel worse on it. Their reasoning in 563 coupled with the vote reads so wrong to me. I think they’re miscontruing skitts’ point in 750. I don’t think skitts is overly fixated on partners, esp when in that very post she has decided on it being TvS. I don’t think skitts was calling Raven towny for liking being defended either, i think that was just a possible explanation for why the Raven/Nahdia connection exists. The pivot to TvS reads the opposite way to me. I think the “Overly fixated on partners is scummy” is just reasoning Nahdia is tacking on to make it seem like they’re hopping onto skitts for reasoning independent of Kanna, if that makes sense. I struggle to believe both Raven/Nahdia don’t see what skitts is seeing

<<<<< Notes/comments on each player >>>>>

Spoiler: Clover

Clover -
Good take on Raven in 543, thats’ what i was thinking with regards to Raven’s “I’m confused” post.

574 again is exactly how i interpreted Raven.

584/586 are more examples of Clover feeling very genuine to me. If he’s scum, he’s a good actor. I quite like the confused-scumreads-wise look, I feel like he’s being honest. The vote on midway feels to me like he feels pressured into trying to take a stance on another player being scum --WHICH YOU’D NORMALLY ASSOCIATE WITH SCUM-- However, i struggle with this as town all the time and this vote kinda reminds me of it

765 - I think midway is obviously scummy but I honestly think it’s just the way he plays. Which leaves me confused how to tell if he’s actually scum. I lost a game to Porkens as scum recently because part of the game he just obvscumed where I wrote him off of “well obviously he’s too scummy!”. It’s possible at some point midway embrances how we’ve branded him too scummy to be scum and runs with it. I think I’ll be able to read midway by the end of this game

768 - Clover feels very real to me, like someone who is actually trying to solve but doesn’t get scumreads easily. He is very open about his reads (and the nonreads) and is voting for the most obviously scummy player (midway) rather than anyone else

777 - Clover wasn’t even aware of who he was voting. Lightly towny because i believe it and I feel scum is more aware of themself -- In my scumgames, I can usually keep track of all the stances I’ve been taking, votes, etc. As town it’s more loose

Spoiler: Lilith

Lilith going out of her way to assert that this is way out of her scumrange + skitts backing that up (489) make me heavily think she’s town. Like saying you’re out of your scumrange among someone you’ve played with before this early seems a bad plan for scum. Lilith was incredibly engaged in my previous game “with” her (Zoeys viewtopic.php?p=11818284) and it kinda reminds me of it. She was NKed the first night for being so obvtown d1 in that game.

I have a scumgame with Lilith, too, though. In City That Never Sleeps (viewtopic.php?f=23&t=82824) she was really engaged too and I townread her. I kinda forgot about this one. I do notice a lot of her contributions within the hydra were the massive wallposts that i didn’t really want to read when i replaced into that game. Her posts are more similar to Zoeys than City, although she was really engaged D1 in both games.

Let me read her outside of just the scumrange and meta stuff since lilith is a really good scum player.

I don’t think Clover slipped with the whole assuming Dunn/Lilith are town thing. Still spotting a “slip” that involves knowing you(lilith) are town seems slightly townie

Ahh she doubles down on the “cant fake it” as scum thing in 472.

501/502 is a good point on Raven -- Votato didn’t really focus on the low content people at all and Raven made it about them. I see that Raven’s point is that Votato is targeting the lurkers which I guess is a feasible thing to say but I’m not crazy about it

One of the bigger things i remember taking issue with was Nahida seeming to just ignore the Tux parts of the Tux/beeboy interaction. Even though it seemed WAY too obvious the chainsaw-y way she was attacking beeboy, it was odd. (lilith brings this up)

542 feels like she’s trying to make Raven scum a bit. Like -- She interpreted one sentence of Raven’s post as a call for help, but like the rest of Raven’s post felt in line with trying to get her thoughts out to me which balances it out

In 545 lilith says Raven’s posts don’t follow a coherent thought process. She only had 5 posts so far so this should be easy enough to check.

>> Raven says she likes Kanna/Clover and maybe MT -> asks Dunn and votato questions, doesn’t understand Nahdia -> doesn’t like votato -> Liking votato better but dont get the Clover read, still don’t like Nahdia -> asks Nahdia questions

Hmm I don’t think I agree. I can see what lilith is getting at, she says that Raven is avoiding talking about the big events. Which is true, but why would scum be more likely to do that? The point that Raven has kind of a weird reaction to votato’s PoE is better though, I agree

*579 is a fair enough way to approach Clover I suppose but i disagree. I also townread Clover though. I don’t think it’s necessary to be overly paranoid of your big townblock on D1. It’s not a set in stone thing -- You find a ton of townreads and target whoever is outside. I don’t know if lilith meant that it was scummy Clover wasn’t considering the townreads being wrong or was just warning her about it (she said it was “concerning”).

*699 I townread lilith too hard in my vla post. I forgot all about City That Never Sleeps for some reason. Nevertheless i like lilith being concerned with me townreading her so hard

705 Lilith has taken the “I am impossibly out of my towngame and it should be obvious” to another level, she’s certain there’s scum voting for her. Honestly that’s what i was thinking too! I still can’t believe scum says this.

788 - I thought i had made it clear why lilith was my strongest townread before i left. Turns out i didnt. Like this reaction

Spoiler: Skitts

Skitts is pretty much just right about Nahida in 484. It’s scum indicative of Nahida to be detached (I think Nahdia has been more detached than Raven). This isn’t exactly damning though, i was really dissociated with the thread when I voted Raven-- I hadnt read through clearly yet, I suppose it’s possible Nahdia just hasn’t been feeling it or I guess they weren’t finding things to say

I like Skitts confirming lilith is out of her scumrange (they were scum together in a previous game) cause it makes me feel better about lilith being town.

493 feels a bit like jumping the gun on Raven. I guess it makes sense to try and put your scumread together with others but forcing Raven to take a stance on Nahdia is a lot. I dont know how to explain this.

I see that Skitts has more posts centering on a possible Raven/Nahdia (601). I don’t think it’s scummy to set up two people together because obviously if you were trying to set up mislynches, you can’t do it by saying two people are scum together and one of them isn’t your partner. I seriously doubt Skitts is scum with Nahdia

608 is how I’d respond to Tux about lilith yeh

I agree that the Nahdia/Raven associative is there although I doubt it’s a real one. Like I can see reasons for them being together but the odds are they arent

730 is a more fair analysis of Nahdia/Raven

831 skitts feels pretty good with me as town ! I did wonder why lilith felt pinged by my sheep on her but I guess i didn’t lay out my townread well enough

I can vibe with 833. I think out of Nahdia/Raven there’s a sizable chance one is scum. I think their behaviour towards each other isn’t too bad, what I take more issue with is how they’re denying it even exists. I thought there was a clear enough associative that could be made, but they don’t acknowledge it and think skitts is just making stuff up

852 - It does kind of involve skitts -- Basically lilith has repeatedly said “this is out of her scumrange” among others who have played with her before, including you especially who has played scum with lilith just a bit ago. That coupled with her play reminding me of her D1 in Zoeys where as I recall she kind of led the charge for a lot of the day and posted the most, got read as obvtown, and was promptly NKed

Spoiler: Tux

I don’t get his point on Lilith in 593. He thinks Lilith was gearing up to vote him during her catch up, but she switched to Raven because the momentum swayed off of him. I don’t see where she was building up to a scumread on him. I see there’s one post where she called Tuxes entrance disjointed with the game state --which it was. I feel like if she were going to vote Tux she’d have done it there though. I’m starting to see what he means, he thinks she was spending time sussing out who the best place for her vote would be. I don’t find it scummy though

855 - This is how i read Tux atm. The opening was off because this game is simply different from the past two games I’ve played with Tux, and he’s getting overwhelmed to an extent. This post makes me feel like how i've been reading him so far is correct

Spoiler: Kanna

638 - I see the Nahdia/Raven link skitts is talking about, but I think it’s too obvious. I also don’t think scum!skitts tries to put the two of them together if they’re both town, that’d be kind of weird. I don’t think skitts is scum with Nahdia and very doubtful with Raven. If skitts is scum I’d expect anyone else. That being said this push seems genuine, I find it hard to believe scum!Kanna feels the need to push skitts (unless maybe as a distancing play. Also seems unlikely)

670 - I am inclined to believe that Kanna believes in this. I appreciate that she admits it isn’t exactly scummy, but convenient. I get the feeling Kanna wants to be right on this if that makes sense -- but I don’t think skitts has been unfair in her evaluation of Raven/Nahdia. Even if it may seem “convienient”

Spoiler: Midway

I feel like I’m going to need to see a midway scum game to solve him

Agree with his reaction to the votato push in 618/619, specifically the part where he disagrees that votato changed his posting as a result to Raven’s comment

654 - Midway you have to do something other than shade people every single time they vote or unvote

756 - I guess I lightly townlean midway. He feels too innocent, too genuine if that makes sense. Dunn calls him out for being awkwardly just vote parking, so he unvotes and doesnt vote anybody else. And the comment on Raven/Nahdia is fair I guess

775 - Like, why. If midway is scum I have no idea how i’d figure that out when he himself doesn’t know the reasoning for his own reads

815 - This is a pretty big analysis post to conclude that drusilla is null. Still I like the effort he puts into it, enough to lightly townlean

Spoiler: Votato/Starbuck

I still townlean votato for the previous reasoning i had, the weird dunn read interaction thingy

He keeps on going with the townbloc bit despite beeboy calling it scummy on the previous page (581). He has no shame!!

RIP

Lightly like the dissonance with votato voting Clover. Starbuck likes Clover, which i like. I agree with the take on Tux. I can see why beeboy seeming defeated for no reason was odd but I read it as genuine emotion from the 1v1

Spoiler: Raven

Raven calls votato’s ISO manipulative in 611 and he is only voting Raven because his Clover wagon wasn’t gaining steam. I kind of see what she’s getting at -- Votato sheeps Lilith on Raven while keeping Nahdia and Clover still in the scumpool. Votato’s Clover scumread is something I never got, but I can see voting Nahdia or Raven as a reasonable thing to do. I don’t find him all in all “manipulative”

Oh she cites votato’s PoE as an example of something scummy. I don’t get her point here -- I don’t think votato changed that PoE as a result of her Clover comment. And the PoE itself is very reasonable

632 - At this point if Nahdia/Raven are partners it’s way too obvious. I find it difficult to believe it’s that clear

652/653 - I see Raven denies seeing any connection between her and Nahdia. She says that Nahdia isn’t defending her by saying they’re “LHFs”. I’d argue that’s actually even more scummy since it’s more of like an indirect defense

Additionally i disagree that skitts pursuing Nahdia/Raven as possible buddies is scummy. I think it’s “too good to be true” but I fail to see scum motivation behind it

720 kind of reads like Raven is very conscious of how her posts will be received. The strong town lean on Nahdia again just doesn’t feel right for a Nahdia/Raven connection

787 - I thought it’d be more clear what the vote was for. I was proxying it to lilith who was my strongest townread at the time. I thought i had gone over why I thought lilith was town before my VLA but it turns out i didn’t (oops), so now I get why Raven/lilith reacted this way to my vote

796 - Worrying that I am buddying lilith is a sort of shallow way of looking at it. I basically said I was buddying lilith in the post when I said she was my strongest townread and voted for her vote without extra explanation

800 - Agree that Starbuck’s catchups don’t read too strongly.

Spoiler: Beeboy

Agree with Beeboy’s evaluation of Kanna in 682. 683 is fair enough -- I interpreted Raven calling Nahdia LHF as a reason to link the two together and I feel like there were more posts linking them together as well, but I can understand beeboy not seeing it just for that reason alone.

851 - I agree, some Raven/Skitts/Lilith interactions are just soo long it’s hard to parse through

Spoiler: Drusilla

677 - She claims that it feels like scum is trying to find a wagon that will stick. I don’t see what makes her think this. Her reads on beeboy/Kanna confuse me as well -- I think beeboy is at best null for the comment he made on drusilla. I think drusilla has been making unique points which could either be interpreted as a genuinely different point of view (towny) or maybe scum disjointed with the game state. I think beeboy’s comments could be telling in the future but atm I don’t know what to think of them. And I don’t see what she means with regards to Kanna being too “aware”. Additionally calling a readslist too mechanical is a stretch to me

681 - Disagree that pushing skitts is “convienient”. With regards to the “starting wagons with little support point”, I think that’s a good one. I can see a case for Kanna pushing skitts for the towncred of having a unique viewpoint that is unpopular -- Although that’s not how I’m reading it atm

Drusilla’s 818 makes me inclined to believe she believes what she said when she called beeboy/Kanna scum looking for what will stick. I haven’t reviewed it too hard to decide whether I agree with it or not (personall i doubt that they were fishing for wagons)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i didn’t realize who drusilla is until just now

Spoiler: Dunn

661 - Yes, midway gets mislynched in my experience and also from observing so far in this game I expect that to be the case throughout a lot of his games.

724 - I don’t think midway has any additional chances of being scum just for voting kind of awkwardly.

Spoiler: Nahdia

Nahdia -
I don’t get the beeboy thing much.. “Caught for the wrong reasons”? I seriously doubt he felt much pressure from tux/nahdia or whoever

The read on midway is understandable, I might be scumreading midway if it weren’t for the scummy rep. Dunn is super fair cause like it does feel like STILL scumreading Skitts is a huge stretch. Also 533 is a mood, at least the “hate being scumread” part. I actually get worse at sorting the more pressure is on me to be honest. I take it too hard. I know i take it too hard, and i still get upset over it

Nahdia is tricky cause it felt like they were ignoring the Tux parts of the interaction but I suppose it is believable they saw something in beeboy that was more worth commenting on

556 - I agree that Raven’s posts didn’t come off as disconnected to me. I disagree that lilith is targeting low hanging fruit per se, a lot of times I end up townreading a ton of players and kind of tunnel on that PoE pool

563 - Waaat?

750 - Half the game is flat out denying that Nahdia/Raven have connections and i dont see why. I think skitts moving to TvS makes sense, that’s what I have been thinking would make more sense the whole time. I don’t think skitts case on Nahdia is wacky either

@Lilith/Kanna

I put a lot of stock into (and I still do, albeit less) thinking Lilith wouldn’t call this game out of her scumrange with skitts in the game so aggressively/early + she was obvtown D1 in Zoey’s which reminded me of here. I forgot about Lilith’s scumgame in City That Never Sleeps, though-- she had a great D1 there that fooled me for the rest of the game. I was thinking more Guns and Roses where i dont think she was obvtown d1 if i remember correctly. I am 100% opposed to the idea of lynching lilith today regardless and I feel like she was the best person to hand my vote to

@Raven

I voted you as a sheep to lilith-- If i could have proxied my vote for someone else to control while I was gone, it’d have been her. I hadn’t really read your content deeply yet in order to form a better read but you were outside of my townreads.

I don’t like either of the main wagons. I think there is almost certainly scum inside {Nahdia, beeboy, Drusilla, Raven, Dunn}, but there isn’t a real wagon on any of them. I can see my reads just being bad I guess, but skitts/midway are not even really approaching my first picks for the D1 lynch.

I think Kanna is sincere with her case but i disagree with it. I feel that Raven/Nahdia should see where skitts is coming from, since they're the ones being talked about. Both of them are ignoring their associations with each other, thereby making skitts out to be just pushing a sort of narrative. It feels to me like they need to block out that what skitt’s is saying is making sense in order to actually be able to scumread her-- so this pings me. I would not be surprised at all if one of them is scum -- but i don’t think both, just from sheer unlikeliness as well as how they reacted to being called partners. I lean towards Raven being town out of them

I also think it’s possible that scum would take the stance to shade skitts without voting her, or simply just ignore the skitts wagon in favour of some other weak wagon while letting the skitts wagon do its thing (im looking you, midway wagon, maybe. I'm pretty sure Clover's vote predates this though.)

VOTE: Nahdia

FOS: Dunn

[Morning Tweet]

oh i was right on drusilla's main!
i think she's town !

From my experience with drusilla, she does operate on that sort of unique approach that you mentioned earlier. But i don't know if that's town-indictative of her, I'd kind of expect her to always play that way, it's just like her ! (^ω^)

Do you have any other reasons to have drusilla as such a good tr?

I think midway is obviously scummy

why?

i can recall multiple posts where you just randomly shade people for voting. I feel kind of unsure how to follow your thought process behind your reads because a lot of the time it feels like you aren't giving much (like 775, you don't even know exactly why). by "obviously scummy", I don't mean i scumread you though, i mean more that you play in a way that attracts lynching kinda. i lean town on you

[Morning Tweet]

Dunnstral, I liked his opening i don't think in this player list without any real lynch bait or at the very least a small number of them he would open the game in that manner as scum. It feels like you are putting a target on your back as far as discussion is concerned even if he didn't think he would get so wolf read for doing that. It's a weird thing to double down on while Skitter was giving him an out, why not just back up and move on? Why commit so hard when this list is unlikely to give you an easy way to adjust to another player? It just doesn't make sense to me as scum play.

I agree with you that Dunn's opening was good, and i liked that he didn't back out early on. What i dont get is how Dunn still views skitts as scummy (471 ?). I guess i failed to take into account that Dunn just hasn't been talking much at all-- i could be wrong on that. i eagerly await to see his thoughts on the skitts wagon

pedit: NAHDIIA

[Morning Tweet]

you should unvote me. because i am town.

You make a solid case. although it depends on a variable unknown to me. how am I supposed to trust you?

[Morning Tweet]

we're both town, this game. your vote wounds me, but i will survive.

i see you townread skitter. but most of your spoiler tag on skitter is actually discussing me. my ego is stroked, but a scumread on me, town!skitter does not make.

i couldn't help but talk more about you!!

Well skitts mentioned you a lot given you're her big push. I still feel like there was a lot more stuff i mentioned abt skitts

[Morning Tweet]

It kind of seems like you're trying to attack Tux/beeboy/skitts/drusilla at once to see what sticks. But also i feel very singled out now so you definitely have my attention and ill keep reading

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: nahdiiiaa

i did not finish writing about skitter before i hit submit. i was talking about unsettlement. in mbos, skitter was pushing me for a reason i felt was... kind of strange and bad, though maybe not entirely invalid. it turns out, she was scumthere and was being opportunistic. in this instance, she is pushing me more on meta, which i actally think is, perhaps more believable. and as i have said previously, her actual content i hve townread. but in mbos i came around to thinking her content was towny too, and it was not to be...

tuxedo mask sheeps his townreads, but then also doubtcasts his townread, beeboy! a heinous crime.

beeboy i am concerned that i and two of my townreads are in your PoE!!!

i do not know what to make of drusilla. similar to skitter, i think their indexing on partner reads is odd. but perhaps that is in fact The MEta. beeboy made a point when talking about clover using recent knowledge. which drusilla did in 818 and it gave me pause, since because i was kind of going in predisposed to find her scummy that pause is moreso? that was something. but i dont like how she seems to just use me being scum as a baseline assumption without, justifying it? like, to read beeboy or kanna as partners.

MORNING TWEEET.

These quotes are what i meant -- kind of like batting them around but not actually taking a stance.

Pedit: Ahhh I see what you mean about beeboy then

well i appreciate the honesty i think. I found some Lilith/Raven/Skitts posts hard to read through. so long

[Morning Tweet]

@MT, please explain to me why you like Kanna’s analysis on the me/Nadia push but are of the opinion that somehow how me or Nadhia ought to be seeing Skitter’s reasoning if Kanna isn’t? Why the higher bar for me and Nahdia?

Also, when did I ever accuse Skitter of making up anything. Please find/link me that quote. In fact, out of Kanna and Nahdia, I was the most unsure of my read on Skitter and couldn’t honestly tell why she was so fixated on her tunnel. I’m starting to think she might actually believe her Nahdia push, which I still disagree with.

@MT, while your catchup is okay, I find your read on me kind of hedgey. Are you having extreme difficulty sorting me or what?

I thought that skitts' point that you two behaved somewhat odd towards each other was fair, although not damning -- it felt like you mentioned each other quite a bit whether it be townreading/defending or just talking about each other (like where you were confused about how to read Nahdia).

I'm realizing that quite a few people seem to disagree with that, which is fair enough. Kanna i took away a light townread from her case on skitts because she kind of feels like she believes she's onto something -- I want to say it's likely to be genuine, which would make her town. but with you two specifically, i'd have thought it to be more obvious since you two ARE the subjects being talked about if that makes sense. i don't really mean disagreeing with skitts reasoning is the problem, I meant more just not acknowledging that the association was there. HOWEVER i thought i read a post of Nahdia's where they denied any connection to you. I can't find it. I must've misinterpreted something, so that weakens my read a bit

Accusing skitts of making stuff up is more.. exaggerated than what I meant. I meant more ignoring that what skitts is saying made sense / was fair, since if you acknowledged that, then the push on skitts wouldn't make sense. Nahdia specifically calls skitts push nonsense in 750 and uses that to vote her for example.

I lumped you and Nahdia together though when i made that point -- i should have read more carefully. I see your stance in 784, your issue is that skitts is only considering one area of the game, which is a more fair one than i had in my mind

With regards to reading you in specific, i haven't made up my mind. Early on i disagreed with the takes that you were disconnected from the game, i had trouble getting a read for a long while, then i remember noting that you seemed sort of concerned how your posts are being perceived / how you're being read (like 720 felt sort of like an unnecessary preemptive explanation). I feel like you've commented on others' reads of you constantly when they don't TR you. But i can see that as perhaps just a playstyle thing so i haven't really decided on it being scummy.

Although i don't Tr you, I ended up putting you higher up since i think a Nahdia red flip would make you green and I had more reason to suspect Nahdia.

[Morning Tweet]

hangover wisdom:

perhaps if i feel the need to get drunk in order to have the spoons to play mafia, mafia isn't a good game for me to play?

...

i have looked again at midwaybear's ISO, in search of a counterwagon because i do not want to be lynched and maybe skitter isn't happening? there are parts of it i really dont like, but there is also content i look at and think "yes, i agree". but i suppose agreement a townread does not make. or, should not anyway. not alone?

similar to how i am reading skitter as making a bit of a leap in her push on me, i think midway's entrance has some of that "aura of scum mindset". he accuses dunnstral of attempting to be super scummy as wifom. why as town would you not just think... he's scummy because x, and is therefore scum? or why not think perhaps he IS too scummy to be scum, and is therefore town? he continues down this path many steps, not keeping his read too surface level, but instead overcomplicating it.

guys I have basically no reads
this is not good

this still heavily pings me. couple with a lot of "i dont get _______" posts. it's sort of similar to what some reactions to raven's "i dont get nahdia" but i think the clear difference there is that raven stayed consistent on what she wasn't understanding and it looked more like attempting to sort rather than just excusing herself from forming reads. midway on the other hand is the opposite. he comments on plenty of stuff, but doesn't get most of it and has no real stance.

---

i have also looked at drusilla again, as requested, but i am unconvinced. i would vote there if need be, but it is not my top choice. beeboy you make the point that i should be looking at her partner reads similarly to how i read skitter. but idk, i feel they are different. i disagree with how drusilla is reading the game, but i

can

follow the logic step by step to meet her. so the things that give me pause, even if they could be faked, actually do outweigh other concerns?

i know this is getting old but I don't think that post of midway is a scummy look for him. I think if i were to switch wagons it wouldn't be to midway. I actually think i townlean midway for that post to be honest, i think it's more likely he'd feel the need to get something out as scum rather than just take that route

Maybe one could argue that midway as scum would embrace the "too scummy to be scum" thing and try to harness it, but i'm doubting that

[Morning Tweet]

Is the Tuxedo/Starbuck timestamp thing important? when i was skimming earlier i feel like i read the word "timestamp" get brought up like 500 times and i worry that it might be a huge argument over very little

Morning's post is gonna take a while to get through, although skimming through it, i'm don't think i'm mindmelding with some of the reads D:

i will get back to things later

well considering the whole skitts thing I guess I'm not surprised

Reading today I'm feeling like there's a couple things i thought i had on Nahdia that weren't true -- like i thought they flat out denied the Nahdia/Raven connection existed but i didnt find that. Also the really odd early game being sort of off character for them i was taking as moderately scummy but Nahdia is adamant that it's not which is making me wonder

[Morning Tweet]

Not taking time stamps into consideration is lack of attention detail and can definitely come from someone who wanted to throw shade real quick and earn some town cred as he entered the game nearly 8 hours after it began. beeboy was just your easy target. He may have come in on Page 4, but he still entered an hour after the thread opened which is fair amount of time to still post a hi, an RVS vote, or whatever.

Okay I think that Tuxedo failing to consider timestamps = He wanted to throw shade quick is a bit of a reach. Although i suppose you're just saying it's a possibility, which is fair

I agree that his entrance was very odd and disjointed with the thread, and I think he did make it quick without checking over it too hard. I think you're on the right track there -- I interpreted it as scummy then but since i've been getting townpinged by Tux. It's hard to explain, i sort of feel like he's finding it difficult to get into the game -- which could certainly be a sign of scum but also reminds me of myself as town when i dont have the time/will to read through everything perfectly

[Morning Tweet]

@Kanna, Nahdia, and Raven, why are you voting Skitter? It seems odd that Skitter points out that she thinks Nahdia and Raven might be scum together, and they both end up voting her together.

i feel like it's been overexplained at this point, were you following our interactions? basically, i felt like skitter's partner push was agenda-y and there were parts of it that didn't add up which made me think it could be faked. also, raven/nahdia both didn't look good at the time, which would make sense for scum motivation.

I just don't see the scum motivation behind pairing two of the most pushed players (at the time) in the game together and then tunneling that idea for the entirety of D1. it's a plan that would look very poorly on scum skitts after a townflip, no? It feels more like town that thinks they're onto something and isn't overly concerned with how it looks, if that makes sense

Esp considring they

did

have connections and it came off like Nahdia thought her reasoning was nonsense (and I thought Raven was treating it that way too but i was wrong).

[Morning Tweet]

I like Tuxedo sorting Nahdia in 987/991. I feel like he's being fair to them

I am starting to feel more confident in midway being town. It's the same old but i just find it hard to believe scum!midway says stuff like "glazed over Kanna's posting" and "Eh sorting Kanna isn't a priority, she's not getting lynched anyways" -- I don't know how to explain this exactly, it's just an apathetic tone that i'd be surprised for scum to take.

I agree with midway that Tuxs questions in 855 feel like asking for the sake of asking than genuinely wanting/following up on an answer.

I feel this in my bones. Sorry, guys, I think I'm having trouble transitioning from Micro to this. Trying my best to keep up. Anyways...

UNVOTE: Lilith

Sorry, it took so long, but I've just been trying to get to the bottom of some strange anomalies I saw in an overall townie ISO. Most especially was what I view as a scum slip. I think Lilith's answers to my questions were very good, especially since I had to spell out it was a scum slip for her to notice. I think if it was an actual scum slip, scum would have noticed what I mean the first time I highlighted that quote. Also the general frustration I'm picking up from their posts seems townie.

@Kanna, Nahdia, and Raven, why are you voting Skitter? It seems odd that Skitter points out that she thinks Nahdia and Raven might be scum together, and they both end up voting her together.

@Morning where are you at? You're a strong town read from earlier in the game but you've fallen off with being busy. Can I get a quick update on what's going on?

@Lilith how's your revaluation going? I don't feel Morning Tweet is scum. Also, I don't think we've had a wagon get over 3 votes all-day 1 which we should fix. I'd like to quardinate on my top two town reads for this. Skitter can be there too I think, I like Skitter.

It kind of reads to me that Tux is having trouble parsing through the thread so he's getting tldrs from people. I think the idea of what you're saying is true, but I think his motivation is more likely to be that he feels like he needs to contribute but is having difficulty doing so, so he asks a bunch of questions to try and get direct info rather than try a huge reread

Of course, it's possible the reason he's having trouble is because he's scum, and he's not used to that -- although im inclined to think it's the length/pace of the game. So the base of observation is correct but i dont think it's negatively AI

[Morning Tweet]

Not for today, it was just something that I wanted to bring up in regards to Tux vs beeboy. I just think it's rich to get all irate at beeboy's entrance, when the thread was open for an hour, when you're coming in for the first time nearly 8 hours later. It feels like Tux wanted to make a bold statement with his late entry to the thread. He did, but it wasn't a good one because I don't know how you shade someone's entrance when you're entering the game way later than them. Simply, I'm not sure if it points to Tux's noobishness as a player or a bad scum case. Time will tell.

I also don't think failing to consider timestamps = throwing shade real fast. I think he wanted to throw shade real fast and didn't consider how long the game had been open when beeboy posted. The lack of attention to detail there is what bothers me. I think he was looking for an easy way to enter the thread and deliver on something given that he was so late to the game.

I don't think Tux as scum would feel extra motivation to try and do something bold to attack someone really quickly -- but you make a fair point that he as scum might feel like he'd need to deliver something to make up for him being late.

i am not super swayed by him not realizing the time frame, I personally don't check timestamps hardly ever, just the post numbers. Maybe i'm in the minority though

[Morning Tweet]

i really don't think tux's approach to beeboy was unfair or unreasonable given that beeboy at taht point indicated that he was reading the game (he knew that nobody had responded to his 'hi' post). i'm not sure i agree with his take, but i believe it's a real one that he actually believes

I agree that he believes his case and am willing to accept that he just saw it vastly different from the majority of the thread -- If anything perhaps Tux!scum reads more carefully as to not upset everyone, to be honest.

I think that's an equally valid conclusion to him hastily trying to make up for being late. After all, what is an extra small amount of time to factcheck the case, see what the thread is thinking, etc. compared to however many hours he was already late

[Morning Tweet]

Link to VC on this page.

to answer tuxedo's earlier question on him vs starbuck, i dont really get a lot from it either way. the thought process tux lays out makes sense even if i dont buy into all of it, and starbuck's frustration meanwhile seems genuine. the one thing that read iffy to me is starbuck voting tux and then later calling it a reaction test. skitter caught that too which, bleh! we're getting to the end of the day, as she acknowledges, so it'd be cool if she could actually take some stances on people who might be today's elimination.

i dislike starbuck's push here and would potentially be open to voting her
i'm also not sure that you aren't going to be today's vote.

like i would compromise on a few other people at deadline (star, dunn) but i'm still hoping it'll be you

Agree with Nahdia, Starbuck reads as genuine to me and so does Tux.

I am kind of starting to get the grievances with skitts -- It seems like her current reads kind of enable to her lynch so many different people in different orders -- Unsure how to explain this. If skitts tunnels on Nahdia/Raven having a scum, she can use that for a very long time without really needing to do any extra investigative work. If skitts is scum, that is pretty useful.

However! I wouldn't really expect anything different from skitts as town who thinks it's TvS, either. It's just, nice I guess if she's scum

Nahdia asks "Why does me being town make Raven scummy?", to which skitts replies "Cause you're not TvT". I'd almost expect more subtlety from skitts!scum than that. More reads to pursue, other things to branch off to. And that's kind of why I liked skitts, it was a pretty unashamed tunnel, I felt like most of skitts content centered around that Nahdia/Raven read which would inevitably backfire without other routes to go

Now though towards the end of the day, skitts dislikes Starbuck who I am reading more the opposite way. That's what is starting to make me doubt myself. And I'm liking Nahdia's recent posting / reactions. So now im more unsure abt this wagon

UNVOTE:

I realize there's not much time left but I'd say there's still just enough time to pivot the wagon if it feels wrong. I know sometimes you just need to pull the trigger n get it done, and you can't just be wishy washy forever, but bare with me for a sec

[Morning Tweet]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

Why? I don’t see that at all. I

’m also becoming more and more confident that Nahdia is town. She just went from looking to a counterwagon to Skittter to hard doubling down on Skitter. How much more anti-survivalist can you possibly get?

I think this is a really bad take, bad as in not making sense to me at all. Why should I be remotely paranoid of a slot hard defending me that I am feeling more and more confident is town? In what world does that make an iota of sense to you?

What do you think about Star’s thinking you and Skitter are tagteaming because I’m seriously starting to wonder about that as well?

like does this not look like a werid reaction to anybody else ... ?

I was more townpinged by Nahdia's hesitation to really switch to anyone as well, specifically onto midway who i think is town-- what do you find weird about it?

Also, if Nahdia is the scum in the TvS, what does Raven's reaction matter?

[Morning Tweet]

I feel like Raven should feel more paranoid about you defending her so strongly and instead kind of took your motives for granted

Why? I don’t see that at all. I’m also becoming more and more confident that Nahdia is town. She just went from looking to a counterwagon to Skittter to hard doubling down on Skitter. How much more anti-survivalist can you possibly get?

I think this is a really bad take, bad as in not making sense to me at all. Why should I be remotely paranoid of a slot hard defending me that I am feeling more and more confident is town? In what world does that make an iota of sense to you?

What do you think about Star’s thinking you and Skitter are tagteaming because I’m seriously starting to wonder about that as well?

At the time you had no read on nahdia and were verbalizing how much difficulty you had reading them. If someone were to come in defending me the way nahdia did, I’d feel pretty paranoid that they had ulterior motives for doing so. And look, you’re now townreading nahdia so if it was scum!nahdia then the move worked to start pocketing you and if it was town!nahdia then I’m right and your not being paranoid is suspicious.

I can follow this case pretty well, but also there's something about Raven's play -- she always seems to comment on people who are reading her negatively, like she did with my catchup (which was more of a null read, and she still commented on it). I'm getting the feeling she quite likes being townread and is inherently less suspicious of being townread as opposed to being read negatively.

I could see that as being scummy, yeah. but i love getting townread too. Love it ! But i do find it suspicious sometimes when my null/scumreads start strong townreading me, sure. I think your case is coming from a genuine mindset and has some merit, although I wonder if Raven simply doesn't get paranoid of buddying much or just didn't get paranoid in this particular instance

[Morning Tweet]

Oh skitter read my mind - starbuck trying to shade me for having too MANY posts is also really bad. It is actually part of my meta that as scum I struggle to create content but also the nature of the content itself is very superficial. Even if you don’t know that, I’m not calling myself obvtown for the amount of posts I have but rather that I would not be able to fake the gamesolving that I’ve done in my posts. (this is also @kanna)

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

Hm yeah I rather disagreed with that part of Starbuck's catch up. I think it's town indictative but i've already been over that. Is there explicit scum motivation for trying to shade you, though? I chalked it up to just a pretty big disagreement

@raven I disagree that it’s the same thing, but regardless, I feel like I then spent quite a bit of time engaging you to try to determine if the disconnect I felt was AI whereas starbuck hasn’t done that all, she’s just throwing shade at me and seeing if it will stick

I'm inclined to believe this is genuine pushback to Starbuck's shade

An idea: We vote midway and we all interact with Starbuck tomorrow? Eh ehhh? No? Okay I'll just be here

I don't think Starbuck is town, I was voting Votato before he got banned, but I agree with the above.
Feels weird lynching a slot that caught up just recently.

Beeboy, do you think Starbuck is scummier than Nahdia?

Clover, i get that midway is fairly scummy but what do you think of the possibility that certain players just start at a scummier baseline? Like how for Skitts I start off assuming she'll townping me once or twice no matter what, for midway I kind of assume he'll do obviously scummy stuff at times so I try to find things that might townping.

I feel like he's posted a number of posts this game that'd he as scum would have second thought and not posted. like "who was I shading? votato and raven? Well I think both of them are town now" (771) "I actually think I've been more townie this game than normal." (988). it goes on but weird stuff like those. While i was looking through i felt less strongly about it than I remembered, but i still don't get any necessarily scum-indicative stuff from him

i wanted to check what you've found scummy of midway specifically. Your point in 773-- I get the feeling that midway's ISO wasn't correlated with his readslist because he hasn't been using his posts to investigate overly much. A lot of them are, as you said, little one liner shades. And granted, reads not correlating with what he says could be a scumtell

I think that midway felt like creating content when he made the readslist, and it was more or less just a collection of gutreads without too much explanation. I guess it's a sort of lowerish effort way of contributing what you think without slaving over explanations. I agree on the surface level it's scummy, however, i think that might be his way of contributing his thoughts. That combined with how it feels like scum!midway would have pulled back on some of his posts to me makes me lean he's just going to be a mislynch bait this game rather than actual scum.

[Morning Tweet]

Ftr I was told that people hate walls, so I switched to multiple smaller posts because I thought that would be easier to read. Apparently it’s not???

it depends what era you're from.
current people hate walls, older players hate spamposting, it's an eternal struggle between the two camps

This is extremely fucking accurate

what's up with the starbuck votes?

ladies and gentlemen, my townread i just spent a really decent sized post defending

[Morning Tweet]

I think Dunn's reason for voting midway ("bad read progression") is objectively true, but I'm inclined to think midway isn't scum this game. I feel like there's quite a few players who expressed the opinion that midway just has a scummy baseline -- although Dunn has just been consistently on midway's case for the past long while. his point on midway is sound, like yeah it's probably true his read progression is not very evident in his posts. But does midway have additional chances of being scum from that, though? I suppose Dunn believes that, but i disagree

Curious to see what Dunn's takes will be on just about everything, though

[Morning Tweet]

skitter, talk to me about Nahdia. I know you linked her and Raven, even if I don't see it, but what else am I missing there?

- i think they're scum on meta
- series of bad, shallow takes
- dislike their push on me

I don't hate this case, im back to being decently sure skitts is arguing in good faith with regards to nahdia, even if im feeling a lot less strongly abt nahdia

Now though towards the end of the day, skitts dislikes Starbuck who I am reading more the opposite way. That's what is starting to make me doubt myself. And I'm liking Nahdia's recent posting / reactions. So now im more unsure abt this wagon

What are you liking about starbuck?

I did not have a negative reaction to her catchup like a bunch of people seemed to have (i never really got why they did, either ?) I slightly lean town on votato.

I feel like her case on Tux was genuine-- I think for someone catching up and finding that odd entrance during the reread (which was really blatant and obvious to find, whereas Nahdia/Raven takes a bit more examining), it makes sense to focus Tux a bit. I suppose that could just be an easy, safe thing for scum!Starbuck to attack, but it's not like she was ignoring the rest of the game.

I think she had some bad takes (like lilith/skitts flooding the thread for example) but i don't think she has any extra chances of being scum for those

[Morning Tweet]

I was more townpinged by Nahdia's hesitation to really switch to anyone as well, specifically onto midway who i think is town-- what do you find weird about it?

Also, if Nahdia is the scum in the TvS, what does Raven's reaction matter?

i'm confused. i don't think nahdia is really hestitant to switch 'to anyone as well'; they've fairly clearly indicated that they're motivated by survivalism and would push for any wagon they could get

and i'm highlighting that i think that raven is pocketed

Spoiler: nahdia quotes

i have looked again at midwaybear's ISO,

in search of a counterwagon because i do not want to be lynched

and maybe skitter isn't happening? there are parts of it i really dont like, but there is also content i look at and think "yes, i agree". but i suppose agreement a townread does not make. or, should not anyway. not alone?

if anything i think that midway is a bit of a lhf push ...

yes

it's an easy push to make

i mean, im not pushing midway. im looking for other places we could coalesce besides myself. same reason i spent some time reading drusilla. forgive me for the survival mode, but....

Ahh i indirectly interpreted these as "I'm looking for places to push besides myself, i checked midway and didn't think it was him"

guys I have basically no reads
this is not good

this still heavily pings me. couple with a lot of "i dont get _______" posts. it's sort of similar to what some reactions to raven's "i dont get nahdia" but i think the clear difference there is that raven stayed consistent on what she wasn't understanding and it looked more like attempting to sort rather than just excusing herself from forming reads. midway on the other hand is the opposite. he comments on plenty of stuff, but doesn't get most of it and has no real stance.

but i missed this post where they outline stuff about midway they think is scummy. I see what you mean

With regards to Raven, i agree she is looking for extra ways to defend Nahdia although I don't know how i'd distinguish between pocketed vs pocketing vs TvT.

[Morning Tweet]

I was more townpinged by Nahdia's hesitation to really switch to anyone as well, specifically onto midway who i think is town-- what do you find weird about it?

Also, if Nahdia is the scum in the TvS, what does Raven's reaction matter?

i'm confused. i don't think nahdia is really hestitant to switch 'to anyone as well'; they've fairly clearly indicated that they're motivated by survivalism and would push for any wagon they could get

and i'm highlighting that i think that raven is pocketed

Spoiler: nahdia quotes

i have looked again at midwaybear's ISO,

in search of a counterwagon because i do not want to be lynched

and maybe skitter isn't happening? there are parts of it i really dont like, but there is also content i look at and think "yes, i agree". but i suppose agreement a townread does not make. or, should not anyway. not alone?

if anything i think that midway is a bit of a lhf push ...

yes

it's an easy push to make

i mean, im not pushing midway. im looking for other places we could coalesce besides myself. same reason i spent some time reading drusilla. forgive me for the survival mode, but....

Ahh i indirectly interpreted these as "I'm looking for places to push besides myself, i checked midway and didn't think it was him"

guys I have basically no reads
this is not good

this still heavily pings me. couple with a lot of "i dont get _______" posts. it's sort of similar to what some reactions to raven's "i dont get nahdia" but i think the clear difference there is that raven stayed consistent on what she wasn't understanding and it looked more like attempting to sort rather than just excusing herself from forming reads. midway on the other hand is the opposite. he comments on plenty of stuff, but doesn't get most of it and has no real stance.

but i missed this post where they outline stuff about midway they think is scummy. I see what you mean

With regards to Raven, i agree she is looking for extra ways to defend Nahdia although I don't know how i'd distinguish between pocketed vs pocketing vs TvT.

[Morning Tweet]

..................................

[Morning Tweet]

I am too a paired werewolf and i can prove it

Here's the post i was planning on entering today with:

~~~~~~~~~

I think the last like 10 or so pages were extremely helpful in affirming some of my reads. My main takeaways are: Lilith is town. Tux is town from the 1v1. Kanna/skitts more or less sealed Star’s fate on pages 51/52, Kanna specifically i think could have justified pivoting to the midway wagon with the large support base it had in Clover/Dunn/Beeboy/Star/Nahdia + she hadn’t really expressed as much of a viewpoint towards non skitts/Nahdia slots. Midway is town for not just the counterwagon but also how i’ve been reading him. Clover I still lean town on + he similarly could have just simply stuck to his guns on midway.

Leaving last scum in {Beeboy, Drusilla, Raven} with Nahdia/Dunnstal as my light town leans for different reasons

here are my notes from rereading it through:

Spoiler: reads

Town //
Kanna
lilith2013
Tuxedo Mask
Midwaybear

High Town //
Clover Ebi
Skitter3

Town Inclined //
Nahdia
Dunnstral

Unsure (less preferred) //
Beeboy

Unsure //
drusilla

Scummish //
Raven Branwen

Spoiler: explanations

Kanna - Her comments towards Starbuck in 1248 and 1267 followed by her vote in 1274 came at a crucial point where the midway and Starbuck wagons were a tossup.

Kanna’s ISO is pro Nahdia, con Skitts primarily, but towards the later end of the day when compromise wagons were suggested, was for Starbuck being lynched and had no opinion on midway. From what i can tell, Kanna could have shaded midway instead of Starbuck, or at the very least not suspected Starbuck (given her previous stances) if she wanted, but she didn’t.

Reading the end of the day now I can see why the Starbuck wagon clinched -- she more or less started attacking everyone in sight without much regard for accuracy. I’d expect a scum!Kanna to either vote midway or hedge between the two wagons, pointing out scummy things in both candidates. Instead she (along with skitts) sealed the deal on midway when i think it would have been easily justifiable to send it the other way.

~

Lilith - She is responsible for putting the Starbuck wagon on the table in the first place (1036/1039).

The pushback to Lilith/Skitts from Starbuck (and to a lesser extent Raven) makes me feel this slot is town. Obviously there was no need to begin the Starbuck wagon even though lilith had a history of scumleaning the slot -- She could have saved investigating Starbuck for another day like others had been proposing. Instead Lilith does not give her the chance. My townread from earlier still stands, with one of the main voices against Lilith’s self meta argument flipping scum.

~

Tuxedo - He joined the Starbuck wagon in 1114, even though Lilith unvoted and suggested we move off our vanity votes. He lobbies for lilith to come back. This vote came at a time where Nahdia/skitts were still acceptable wagons.

Tuxedo had all the excuse in the world at this point to not vote for Star -- The main pusher of the Star wagon had unvoted, people were mentioning how it feels off to exile a replacement, and what not. Didn’t stop him though. There is also the deal with the Star v. Tux 1v1 which heavily suggests he’s town as well. I believe that Star was genuinely trying to get suspicion drawn towards Tux, thinking it’d stick because of his odd early game.

~

Midway - He townread Starbuck and vehemently wanted Dunn killed. However, he was also the counterwagon to Starbuck, with {Dunnstral, Starbuck, beeboy, Clover Ebi, Nahdia} voting for him.

I feel like I’ve been over why midway isn’t scum and I suppose it you could discredit me by saying all I’m saying is “Too scummy to be scum”. However, him being the bad counterwagon to Starbuck and his reaction to the hammer still make me feel he’s town. I think voting for midway was defensible, and scum could have gotten away with it since there weren’t really too many players defending him, but in this case he’s town and scum got caught with their pants down (^∀^)

~

Clover - He joined lilith second, voting Starbuck in 1052. He wanted midway primarily but has a secondary scumread on votato.

Clover indicates that he wants Starbuck dead pretty strongly in 1052 (he’s excited about it). Had he gotten his way with the midway lynch, he would have had to scumread Starbuck for the rest of the game more or less given how strong he indicated the scumread is-- this is hard to explain. I think that scum!Clover would have indicated a weaker scumread on Starbuck and possibly stuck to his guns with the midway wagon -- it would have been pretty excusable as long as he didn’t strongly indicate he wanted Starbuck dead -- but he does here.

~

Skitts - She vastly preferred Nahdia but joined lilith/Clover as the third vote in 1142. She commented negatively towards Starbuck at a crucial point between the midway/Starbuck wagons along with Kanna.

I think again the pushback towards Lilith/Skitts suggests that Starbuck (and scum) were worried about them becoming obvtown and wanted to cast shade on the two of em. Skitts still wanted Nahdia wagoned instead obviously, but she indicated that the Starbuck wagon was much preferred over midway. I think that given Skitts’ previous interaction with Starbuck (like calling her “remarkably uncharitable” in 1066), skitts could not have joined the midway wagon even if she wanted. However, she has consistently been against Starbuck (1040) which would have been hard to explain away after a Nahdia/midway misexile regardless.


~

Nahdia - They lobbied for skitts votes at a time where Nahdia/skitts were still the wagons, but also said that midway was a viable alternative. After midway acquired 4 votes from {Dunnstral, Starbuck, beeboy, Clover Ebi}, they joined as a 5th (they hadn’t made any posts between the vote and the skitts/midway post). They continued to make negatives comments/sort of shades towards midway (1252, 1285, 1296) as the day progressed. No mention of Star really since suggesting midway as far as i can tell. Oh there’s one actually -- they laugh at Tuxes’ point against Star saying that her catchup being extended could be scummy. I agree with Nahdia here actually

Tonally I’ve leaned town on Nahdia ever since they reentered the thread drunk a while back. Nahdia says that Star’s catchup was unremarkable and agrees that catchups are easy to fake (back at 1135). They scumread votato early and say they’re willing to vote Star if needed.

Their final post is at Star’s L-2, when Clover left the midway wagon for Star -- they argue that midway can’t really justify attacking Star since he had been expressing a TR on votato. Fair enough.

Overall I can believe Nahdia potentially being scum but also they did have the history of scumreading votato -- I am inclined to think that scum would have jumped ship and attacked Star once it seemed inevitable (page 52, like beeboy did). My independent townlean on Nahdia makes me lean against it being them as well

~

Dunn - He vehemently argued for midway’s exile all the way up until “E-1”ing Star. He did have votato/Star as his second scumread prior.

Dunn has been pretty disengaged with the game. I suppose it’s possible he didn’t intend to kill Starbucks with his vote, given that she (I assume) would have claimed watcher, which then could have caused the wagon to pivot back to midway. Still, he shut this down COMPLETELY by offing her. He also had votato/Star as his second choice for the exile which is consistent

However, if he believed that was an actual E-1, this could have been a distancing move, sure, because then Star might have gotten out of it with the claim. In fact, there was probably enough momentum on midway that it could have easily shifted back. And Dunn would have been totally justified in doing so.

Still I lean against it as that’s much more complicated -- I lean towards the more obvious answer that town!Dunn wasn’t paying attention, since if that is his mate on the line, he’d have paid more attention to the votes.

~

Beeboy - He was second to vote midway, as Nahdia suggested we powerwagon him. After Lilith/Tux insisted on Starbuck, he voted Star. He recalled reasons to vote for midway and lobbied for Clover/Starbuck to help him lynch beeboy. After Kanna and Skitts make the vote + comments that ended up sealing the wagon, beeboy cast the E-1 on Star.

After Nahdia suggested a powerwagon on mid, Beeboy clarifies that he is willing to vote Star, but feels they won’t be exiled “as they've been a topic for a very long period of time.” I feel this is somewhat weak reasoning for not voting Star but at the same time, i was townleaning Star earlier as a reason of the Tux 1v1.

Beeboy’s case on midway (1181) comes after Dunn, Clover, and Star all express the desire to exile midway after his vote on Star. Again -- midway is town, but I think scum could come up with justifiable ways to misexile him. Beeboy mentions that midway changed opinions at complete reason in a different game (getting him killed), but this game he’s sticking tunneled on Dunn to avoid getting himself killed. i would argue that midway has not put much towards not getting himself killed this game, either.

[5] midwaybear: Dunnstral, Starbuck, beeboy, Clover Ebi, Nahdia

I think there was almost certainly scum pushing for midway to be killed, it was a perfect counterwagon. However, beeboy’s voting pattern is almost like too blatant-- check 1181. He literally asks Star (along with beeboy) if we can get momentum for a midway wagon.

~

Drusilla - She was absent for the midway/Starbuck wagons. Their last post expresses a suspicion of Kanna.

I don’t have a read on drusilla and sadly there’s no wagon analysis from her for me to examine. Via PoE and her latest suspicion being Kanna, her odds are higher to be scum, though. I would not be surprised at any flip from her, though, because skitts and another player (?) if i recall have been adamant she is town.

~

Raven - She initially considered votato to be scummy but turned around upon Star’s catchup. She stuck to the skitts wagon.

In 1026, Raven questions Skitts why Star is a viable counterwagon, as she doesn’t find Star scummy. Additionally in 1029, she expresses a suspicion/dislike that lilith/skitts are tagteaming (don’t like this much).

Raven keeps discussing the Nahdia/Raven debate in 1069 despite skitts seeming like she’s very uninterested at this point in 1067. Raven’s 1072 sticks out to me a bit -- She sort of agrees with Star that skitts/lilith’s posting styles are NAI, but makes sure to include that it wasn’t bothering her. It’s like halfway to agreeing with Star but not quite.

Now contrast this with Nahdia’s response (1071) to the same comment: Nahdia gives what i think is the correct interpretation of lilith’s claim about her meta. “i mean lilith isn't say she would do things different as scum. she's saying she literally could not do what she is doing rn if she were scum.” I think this is a much more fair evaluation of lilith -- Starbuck was HEAVILY shading lilith for the posting style thing and while Nahdia gave what i think was the right answer, Raven more just chimed in that she agrees posting style is NAI.

In 1164, Raven asks Star several questions about her current stances. She says that she doesn’t like compromise wagons much but leaves it at that with regards to the Star wagon. Raven consistently sort of wants to steer away from the wagons in skitts/Nahdia swapping, even in 1164 where she questions Starbuck for a discrepancy.

Tldr - Raven has made posts not really townreading Star but also questioning the wagon choice on her (1026 & 1062), agreeing with Star on lilith/skitts not being townie via posting (1061 & 1072), and expressedthat she doesn't want a compromise wagon, but not mentioning names (1164)

~~~~~~~~~

(Basically I went full tryhard mode which is decently indicative of my scum game)

Also i left off the "0" in skitts in my reads for a reason but i'll explain that later probably

I was prepared for a long haul since we accidentally got our traitor killed but apparently that was pointless

[Morning Tweet]

Do you think town knew from the start they were heavily outnumbered? If they didn't it'd be pretty hard to fake being a werewolf probably

[Morning Tweet]

Do you think town knew from the start they were heavily outnumbered? If they didn't it'd be pretty hard to fake being a werewolf probably

'town'?

the not-werewolves

[Morning Tweet]

so MT you were assuming werewolves were still scum as of last night?

Day one i thought it was 2v2v9 multiball with 2 werewolves, 2 maf, 9 town

Then midway called it "reverse mafia" which made me think like, 10 werewolves 3 secret town or something

Then Kanna claimed that you're mafia so i guess we're back to multiball

[Morning Tweet]

you're both claiming factional cop?

Ok here's the thing: with an even-night watcher and a bodyguard I'm very skeptical of this claim based on mechanics. Even if the alignment cop is roleblocked, they're still seen by watcher. What's the counterplay?

I think they're both cops but one of them is mafia one is werewolf

[Morning Tweet]

If we kill Nahdia, they're mafia, and all the paired people claim, then all the pairs should be innocent unless there's like 3 mafia or something

[Morning Tweet]

Hmm there could be 3 mafia

[Morning Tweet]

If we kill Nahdia, they're mafia, and all the paired people claim, then all the pairs should be innocent unless there's like 3 mafia or something

Don't we need Nahdia's werewolf partner they claimed to have to claim?
I really don't think this game is consistent of mason pairs.

I think my partner is werewolf with me because of all our tinfoiling and funky plays we did together. But that's a read based on play.

My PT suggests that me and my partner are werewolves together. I don't think it's possible it's a neighbourhood, it's a masonry

[Morning Tweet]

My role pm explicitly states I am a faction, my factional topic explicitly states my partner is a werewolf.
I just don't think Hectic made a game with 5 masonries.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes exactly -- you do have a point though

[Morning Tweet]

I want to hear Nahdia claim or not claim their partner before the other partners claim

[Morning Tweet]

I understand what Clover is saying i think you guys are sort of arguing semantics

[Morning Tweet]

My partner is Kanna. She's telling the truth

[Morning Tweet]

I am taking MT's post as "they claimed cop page 1"

Yup

[Morning Tweet]

Does this mean we aren't masonries despite it *sort of* suggesting we are? Fucking hell

[Morning Tweet]

wdym sort of? I thought you know you are the same alignment...

Yeah I did until Nahdia claimed they were with Tux and Tux sold them out

(I'm still convinced Kanna is wolf, but I'm more concerned about the implications for the others)

[Morning Tweet]

Unvoteeee

[Morning Tweet]

I want to keep the day rolling to hunt for mafia. Previously i was writing off the pairs. Oops

[Morning Tweet]

yes absolutely.

we were told we "forgot" how to nightkill, so i thought maybe we would remember it at some point?

Nahdia knew about the forgetting how to nightkill thing. Scary. But it's making me think that Nahdia/Tux really did share a wolf hood. Meaning that Tux is a wolf and Nahdia was there to deceive him, because if they were both mafia they could just use a mafia chat

[Morning Tweet]

Kanna is a wolf
Drusilla is a wolf
Tuxedo is a wolf (It also explains his D1 perfectly)
Midway is a wolf (gut from his posting today)

Clover is probably a wolf
Skitts is probably a wolf

At least one in Beeboy/Dunn is a wolf

Undecided on Raven

Nahdia is mafia

Any of this seem wrong?

[Morning Tweet]

Everyone should go read their partner pt in a new light.

My partner asked me at the very start of the game if I 'wanted to claim my role'

Their justification today is that they have seen complicated roles like day vig and didn't want to play like they knew it was coming

What do you think of that?

That uh, doesn't seem very good now that we know what's going on.

What does that justification even mean?

[Morning Tweet]

At least one in Beeboy/Dunn is a wolf

Why?

Cause I'm thinking that there's at least 1 wolf in each wolf hood.

[Morning Tweet]

At least one in Beeboy/Dunn is a wolf

Why?

Cause I'm thinking that there's at least 1 wolf in each wolf hood.

What's the connection between me and beeboy, then?

Educated guess, wanted to see if i was right

If you're not together, i'd amend it to that you're both decently likely wolves but i dont have proof yet

[Morning Tweet]

There's no way I could play my day 1 like that

if I was scum though.

Although I don't know why you thought my today came from scum?

Also I'm still wanting people to answer my day start question.
pedit: No, I am a werewolf I just thought this game was multiball so I was scumhunting the other pair the entire game

The reason I don't suspect Clover is because this is kind of how my day one went. At least when trying to find scum, I thought it was multiball. I see why the bolded could be interpreted as a slip but i dont think so

[Morning Tweet]

yes absolutely.

we were told we "forgot" how to nightkill, so i thought maybe we would remember it at some point?

Nahdia knew about the forgetting how to nightkill thing. Scary. But it's making me think that Nahdia/Tux really did share a wolf hood. Meaning that Tux is a wolf and Nahdia was there to deceive him, because if they were both mafia they could just use a mafia chat

^^^^^^^ why Tux isn't mafia IMO

I think they infiltrated wolf hoods and make them half wolf, not fake as full wolf hoods.

[Morning Tweet]

At least one in Beeboy/Dunn is a wolf

Why?

Cause I'm thinking that there's at least 1 wolf in each wolf hood.

What's the connection between me and beeboy, then?

Educated guess, wanted to see if i was right

If you're not together, i'd amend it to that you're both decently likely wolves but i dont have proof yet

Were you discussing this with Kanna or did you spontaneously come out with it?

I actually did place bets on 1. midway being wolf and 2. beeboy/Dunn being together in our PT

[Morning Tweet]

At least one in Beeboy/Dunn is a wolf

Why?

Cause I'm thinking that there's at least 1 wolf in each wolf hood.

What's the connection between me and beeboy, then?

Educated guess, wanted to see if i was right

If you're not together, i'd amend it to that you're both decently likely wolves but i dont have proof yet

Were you discussing this with Kanna or did you spontaneously come out with it?

I actually did place bets on 1. midway being wolf and 2. beeboy/Dunn being together in our PT

I just want to confirm: Were you the person who said beeboy/me were paired, or was it more of a discussion and you arrived at that

Nah I just outright said it. Reason being that beeboy's read on you felt weird D1

[Morning Tweet]

Wait are you hounding me on it because i was actually right?

[Morning Tweet]

Wait are you hounding me on it because i was actually right?

Yes.

YES HAHAHA

[Morning Tweet]

both related to special setup mechanics. Maybe the setup not having special mechanics is changing how he opens -- Obviously that doesn't change how he did stand out as townie in those games but it makes me wonder

I thought mt slipped here thinking mechanics/flavor was not unusual

That was me pretending to know nothing -- In actuality, i just thought it was multiball cause of the factional cop but i had no idea it was this off.

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah i dont think its relevant anymore but that's what i thought at the time

Ahhhh I see what you mean. That would have been pretty hard to have ready

[Morning Tweet]

Yike sorry

[Morning Tweet]

I can find a decent reason to believe every single player is a wolf except for Raven now. Oops

[Morning Tweet]

Ah... I get it.
Tuxedo is scum and they were paired with the 2 dead players not each other.

Ah that would also explain how they had the werewolf flavour

[Morning Tweet]

So in summary: the mafia got the watcher and bodyguard killed, cause they probably claimed their roles in their wolf hoods. First they got Star thrown down the well rather than midway, then they torched lilith

Now they can claim to be partners with each other, plus one of them is a cop so they can use that to their advantage.

but then! One of them gets a guilty result on them by a hero factional cop and the plan is foiled. The cop claims to be partnered with their teammate (after a delay), and their teammate says "This is the first I'm hearing of this cop claim?"

The cop is swiftly executed, leaving the other partner not having to account for what team he's on and also with a nice bus

That would make the setup 11v2 though. Is that mountainous -- I checked and it is.

But there are power roles, such as the aforementioned factional cop. I'm guessing midway is a bit of a red herring negative wolf power since he's alone. Still there should be more evil than just the 2, though

[Morning Tweet]

The reason the theory feels right to me is that the first two people to die *just happen* to be protectives and they also *just happen* to not be partnered with any living player

[Morning Tweet]

I remember this suggestion a while back, but explaining our play with our partners in mind could be useful. Morning and I worked solidly as a team

\(^∀^)/ ♡

[Morning Tweet]

You have no reason to scumread me but I'm gonna go back to work anyway because it's not like I'm getting lynched today so I don't need to worry.

You're doing a really good job of trying to get lynched on a future day though

Still don't think youre scum

[Morning Tweet]

drusilla - clover ebi
nahdia - tuxedo mask
morning tweet - kanna
dunnstral - beeboy
skitter - raven branwen
midwaybear
lilith - ?
Starbuck - ?

Agree that Dunn/Beeboy and Raven/Skitts were playing paired

Drusilla and Clover is more ambiguous from what i remember. I can see why Clover is being suspected so heavily.

Midway is wolf

[Morning Tweet]

That explains a lot

[Morning Tweet]

Also, we have a bond of friendship

this is important!!!!!!!!

[Morning Tweet]

Idk I feel like my day 1 and 2 play are drastically different myself.

Also me and Dunnstral have a way stronger friendship then you do Kanna/MT.
+ we aren't getting shot tonight :^)

hey!!!!

At least we have better emoticons (>﹏<)

I don't know what Tux means that we're beating the same drum. Feels amazingly different to me

[Morning Tweet]

Okay so in theory if Tux is town telling the truth, that means whoever Nahdia's partner is:

A.) Did a pretty good job binding with their wolf partner (for example, beeboy's weird read on Dunn)
and/or
B.) Were prepared for this werewolf massclaim today (For example, skitts having that post of mine where it seemed like i slipped being town ready)

(oh yeah and then there's midway)

I can see instances of just about every player doing at least one of those things. I feel too sleepy to bother trying to sort through who's most likely if it isn't Tux rn, but ill get to it later maybe?

[Morning Tweet]

From Tuxes PoV it'd have to be an impure pair, wouldn't it?

[Morning Tweet]

Drusilla, why are there only two mafia is Tux is scum, but three mafia is Tux is town?

[Morning Tweet]

Drusilla, why are there only two mafia if Tux is scum, but three mafia if Tux is town?

[Morning Tweet]

Oh MT/Skitter if tux is town do you agree with me that the scum pairing has to be bee and Dunn? It can’t be mid unless one of star or Lilith we’re alone but that’s unlikely

No

At best it'd be one of them, but definitely not both. And i don't think it's either of them anyway

[Morning Tweet]

Drusilla, why are there only two mafia if Tux is scum, but three mafia if Tux is town?

there are three mafia either way. either the mafia are nahdia/tuxedo + one of the impure pair, or nahdia + the pure pair.

Ah i see now. If it's nahdia/tuxedo with another, that'd mean there are THREE impure pairs. Such deception considering it literally says we are werewolves together

[Morning Tweet]

Tone change from yesterday to now is not AI

its pretty AI for me

[Morning Tweet]

I find it strange that starbuck and Lilith are supposedly paired together. My theory is that tuxedo is town and that the two other mafia are pretending to be paired with each other.

Huh

[Morning Tweet]

If I was really scum I wouldn't be able to do that because there's a 3 person scumteam and I would have to fake pushes. I cannot do that as scum.

What's the difference between a 3 person scumteam and a 2 person scumteam in this situation?

Are you trying to say there's only 2 scum and I'm it with Nahdia?

I'm trying to say what's the difference between you thinking you're a wolf with drusilla, and you thinking you're mafia with nahdia and 1 other person

Because I thought it was multiball so I was able to genuinely scumhunt

I wouldn't be able to do that if I was mafia because we'd have a three person scum team.

OK.

I see what you're saying now. You're saying you were genuinely scumhunting because you thought there was another team.

Yes, exactly!

[Morning Tweet]

I feel like nahdia would be trying to distance more from tuxedo if he was scum instead of giving up.

It is almost always best for caught scum to not say anything. That's not indicative of anything

[Morning Tweet]

Raven!!!!

[Morning Tweet]

Raven is a werewolf, nice.

[Morning Tweet]

I think Skitter and I are actually masons based on both the wording of my role pm and Hectic posting right in our PT that we’re werewolves but even if that weren’t the case, she’s been working with me the entire game. Tux mainly for mech reasons.

This seem familiar?

yes absolutely.

we were told we "forgot" how to nightkill, so i thought maybe we would remember it at some point?

Nahdia is mafia and they had access to the flavour we got as well. It seems that either A.) Nahdia was paired with star or lilith and they were tricked into thinking it was a "masonry" too, or B.) Nahdia and Tux are indeed paired and they still had access to the exact flavour somehow. Tux can be town in that scenario, but that would mean he too thought it was a masonry from the wording

Regardless I'm sure you're a wolf though so doesn't really matter

[Morning Tweet]

I think Skitter and I are actually masons based on both the wording of my role pm and Hectic posting right in our PT that we’re werewolves but even if that weren’t the case, she’s been working with me the entire game. Tux mainly for mech reasons.

This seem familiar?

yes absolutely.

we were told we "forgot" how to nightkill, so i thought maybe we would remember it at some point?

Nahdia is mafia and they had access to the flavour we got as well. It seems that either A.) Nahdia was paired with star or lilith and they were tricked into thinking it was a "masonry" too, or B.) Nahdia and Tux are indeed paired and they still had access to the exact flavour somehow. Tux can be town in that scenario, but that would mean he too thought it was a masonry from the wording

Regardless I'm sure you're a wolf though so doesn't really matter

If Nahdia was paired with Tux, then how could she also have been paired with either Star or Lillith? I think it extremely unlikely that Lillith and Star were paired. Maybe they were also lone wolves, that is of course assuming that MWB is town but there could conceivably be 3 unpaired slots. That’s what I’m thinking based off of Star/Lillith interactions.

So, I obviously already know I’m voting Nahdia but I don’t want to rush the day, so we can hopefully figure out her partner(s). I think it noteworthy that Dru was basing her sr on they’re being a 3 person scumteam but then Lillith thought that as well, so NIA.

If Nahdia and Tux are scum together, we have a theory that they may have been originally paired with lilith and Star and are now lying about being paired together. After all, it seems impossible lilith and star were paired.

Maybe they were all lone wolves though as you say-- I recall feeling quite convinced Tux was scum earlier but I suppose we might have just happened to kill two unpaired protective on accident. It's possible, since lilith was a pretty good night kill after all.

But in that scenario, Tux was lied to about Nahdia being werewolf pretty much so they're some kind of spy. If that's true, are the other two mafia also spies, or are they in a group together? Dru has been assuming that if Tux is town, then the other two mafia left would be in a group together. But from my perspective, that group would honestly probably be Dru/Clover lol

[Morning Tweet]

Well i mean if they were paired with Star and lilith, no one could call Tux out on this lie.

But if Nahdia and Tux are truthfully in a hood together, then that makes me think Tux is town since Nahdia clearly had access to the wolf flavour and why would it be there if there werent a wolf in the hood to trick? Suppose it could be Nahdia + Clover/Dru then

[Morning Tweet]

I have day talk in my werewolf factional PT, feel like the mafia have it as well.
Anyway yeah just end the day.

Maybe Nahdia isnt with the other two in the maf chat, like a traitor. Or mafia has a traitor and they're talking to that player. anything is possible

although yeah trying to communicate would be super risky

[Morning Tweet]

That was the hammer!
See you in the morning zzzzz

Night night!

[Morning Tweet]

Keep in mind if Tux is town, then Nahdia can be partners with any of the groups that are heavily vouching for each other being wolves. Since they'd be working together, it makes sense that they'd affirm heavily that the other is a wolf, no?

[Morning Tweet]

KKKAAAANNNNNAAAA ;C

Kanna and I were playing on level 3 WIFOM, kinda thought scum would shoot me because either of us could claim cop and everyone and their brother said they were protecting Kanna.

So I will give slight merit to the people tinfoiling me as mafia. But only a little! Stop doing that!

[Morning Tweet]

How the heck does town get a bodyguard, watcher, cop, and a backup for those?

But whatever-- we tried to cop Chara, obviously. Sad times.

[Morning Tweet]

I guarantee mafia were unphased by midways doctor claim. If town has 4 protectives, why even bother lol

Still kind of weird they shot Kanna. I almost feel like more experienced players would have shot me -- unless I'm crazy ?

well if you need me for anything lemme know I probably can't read the whole thing till later

[Morning Tweet]

I don't have the chops or power to vote who I think is scum so I know someone from my pair is on the block tomorrow but, I don't think either of us should be.
pedit: It isn't useful! You and I were the two most likely lynch options assuming no result came out today. But there's no reason for Dru to lie about it and I'm 100% positive she isn't.

Wait! How could you possibly KNOW this? How do you know the game won’t end today?

Well if theres only two mafia that's a real shame for them init it

[Morning Tweet]

I for one am highly anticipating Clovers claim

[Morning Tweet]

Whatd I do to get read so highly as werewolf? Kanna and I had a blast together although I'm not sure we laid heavy on the associative tells.

I suppose.. if Chara is town I'd expect a full pair (Raven/skitts, beeboy/Dunn, Clover/drus) to be the remaining scum, which would not include me anymore (;﹏;)

However assuming Chara is scum then I suppose the remaining scum could be anyone regardless of groupings. But that would suggest not skitts/Raven and beeboy/Dunn since they are vouching for each other so hard, and Tux was trying to combat that. That leaves me/Midway/Clover/Drusilla and my opinion on who it is highly depends on Clovers claim

[Morning Tweet]

I hate how everyone besides me and dru have fallen into the trap of this set up. It's so hard to play with people doing this. mmmm

Fallen into the trap? you've got my attention

[Morning Tweet]

I for one am highly anticipating Clovers claim

Chara and Clover are the only ones currently pinging me. Chara, because of their suspiciously chill reaction to Dru’s guilty and both them and Clover for seeming a little to confident that the game won’t end,

To be fair I'd be pretty surprised if there are only 2 scum. I agree Charas reaction is very.. odd

[Morning Tweet]

11v2 where town gets a bodyguard, watcher, cop, and a backup for those vs. a 2 man scumteam where one is a vanilla goon? Feels hard to believe

[Morning Tweet]

Of course I'm confident the game won't end. I doubt this game is 11-2 that'd be so sad for the scum team considering what's flipped already.

Why? How are you so certain that it isn’t 2 scum? It’s a micro after all. Just to be clear, I’m not confident it isn’t. I think it’s extremely unlikely that Chara doesn’t flip scum and pretty much next to impossible that Skitter does.

this is a mini. 1 more player and itd be a large

[Morning Tweet]

11v2 d1
9v2 d2
7v2 d3
5v2 d4
3v2 d5

10v3 d1
8v3 d2
6v3 d3
4v3 d4

3 scum feels more fair to me although im no expert on setup balance

[Morning Tweet]

I can see where Clover is coming from. We have all decided we're not being tricked, leaving just Clovers hood. Clover as town would be pretty frustrated about this

That being said I dont see a world where Raven or skitts are scum, besides maybe them both being scum together but I heavily doubt that too. Raven just seems like a wolf to me, same with skitts -- both of their entrances yesterday point to this for me

Beeboy and Dunn have higher odds of being scum together faking being wolves together, sure. I would argue again that one cannot be scum without the other being scum, it just seems unlikely. And overall I dont really think theyre mafia anyway

Clover and Drusilla are kind of left on the outside. Dru has a guilty on Chara which sounds about right to me. So naturally everyone is assuming its Clover last mafia now. Which is possible. But a shame since I was wolf reading him based off the frustration yesterday and today. He said stuff yesterday I think that was getting misinterpreted and today sort of the same deal. I suppose frustration in of itself isnt inherently AI.

Theres also midway who is a player in this game. Probably a wolf player. He is definitely here

[Morning Tweet]

Dunnstral/MT.
^ Last scum if Kanna flips scum.

I am done with day phase. Free me from my flesh chamber.

interesting

Did you notice something about Clover?

[Morning Tweet]

Can i be the hammer on Chara? pleeeeaaasee?

[Morning Tweet]

We are doing this middle ground pro scum thing, where we claim guilties ASAP to lose natural interacions.
Then we explain all our thoughts for the next day so the scum kill doesn't suffer.

Idk I think we are messing up right now.

lol that's a fair point

everybody in the game (i thought) knew dru was gonna watch Kanna and lo and behold she did. felt kind of like a foregone conclusion, so it didnt really make sense to wait to reveal that guilty. It's fair that our discussion right now isn't super necessary to be had today

[Morning Tweet]

How the heck does town get a bodyguard, watcher, cop, and a backup for those?

But whatever-- we tried to cop Chara, obviously. Sad times.

Did Kanna submit her action before the deadline changed?

Kanna copped Tuxedo, then he replaced, then she said to cop his replacement just to make sure. The replacement wasn't found yet when she said that but i dont think it matters much

[Morning Tweet]

But now I just am town reading everyone
Jolly gee being bad at mafia sure is fun.

i do this in every game! I got to this point sometime early d2 i think

[Morning Tweet]

I'm ready for the day to end by the way

What's the vote at, e-2 or e-1?

E-2

if u vote ill hammer !!

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Chara

[Morning Tweet]

let's gooooooooo

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet really wanted that hammer, don't be a hater.

Thank u for the back-up beeboy (>ω<)

[Morning Tweet]

i'm surprised Nahdia is finding beeboy scummy. Also found Clover scummy? Interesting, it's really chainsaw-y but it's too obvious, i would think. For example 191 is discrediting midways defense of beeboy / suspicion of Tux but not really commenting on it itself

was Nahdia really chainsawing for their partner less than 10 pages into the game? god damn it they still fooled me lol

[Morning Tweet]

I dont think Chara wanting to self hammer implies an additional partner. It was very dead at that point, and hammering can be fun

My first reaction to the no kill was "Hm. We killed all the mafia." May or may not be true though. I kinda doubt we blocked a night kill with like, several protectives already outted

[Morning Tweet]

dru could be right here-- if it's 9 town vs. 2 mafia (killers) vs. 2 scum (not killers), i would expect A.) Town to have some nice PRs and B.) Mafia to NOT have some nice PRs

Raven is also possibly right, last mafia could be a traitor as well. But then I'd kind of expect mafia to get some kind of power? In a 10v3

[Morning Tweet]

Clover - Drusilla
Morning -

Kanna

Dunnstral - Beeboy
Skitter - Raven

Tuxedo-Chara

-

Lilith

Nahdia

-

Starbuck

Midwaybear

If we are looking at a 9v2v2, I'd expect one of the full pairs to be the.. whatever the last scum party is. What would they be anyway? "Townies"?

I would say balance-wise, it was probably quite unexpected for the two mafiosos to die first. After all, they were essentially mod-confirmed to be werewolves along with their partners. The reason I feel this is true is because Nahdia knew the werewolf chat flavour. The mafiosos are incredibly powerful without having PRs.

If we are looking at a 10v3, it gets a bit harder to determine the last scum. I suppose it'd just be another mafioso spy?

[Morning Tweet]

dru could be right here-- if it's 9 town vs. 2 mafia (killers) vs. 2 scum (not killers), i would expect A.) Town to have some nice PRs and B.) Mafia to NOT have some nice PRs

Raven is also possibly right, last mafia could be a traitor as well. But then I'd kind of expect mafia to get some kind of power? In a 10v3

Yeah exactly. In what game ever do you have a stacked town and only non-prs for scum?

You could consider their "spy" ability confirming themselves as werewolves with actual werewolves to be sort of an ability. They are also the only ones who can kill, so if it's multiball that's nice for them

[Morning Tweet]

Clover -

Drusilla

Morning

-

Kanna

Dunnstral

-

Beeboy

Skitter

-

Raven

Tuxedo-Chara

-

Lilith

Nahdia

-

Starbuck

Midwaybear

It doesn't feel like most of the players are mafia-aligned.

Drusilla got Chara killed
Morning would have killed Kanna
Dunn and Beeboy are adamant their partner isn't mafia. Skitts and Raven are as well.
Midway just doesnt feel like mafia to me lol
I guess Clover coouuld be.

It kinda feels like we could be dealing with 3p or another separate faction of some sorts

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah exactly. In what game ever do you have a stacked town and only non-prs for scum?

in a game where there are 4 non-werewolf aligned players instead of 3, which was also included in morning tweet's post.

But the mafiosos were both goons so, you’re saying that there’s literally no scum prs and last scum can’t even kill? I just find that really hard to believe, especially when we haven’t yet done a mass claim and don’t even know this for sure. Last scum could still very well be a mafia pr. Chara’s not putting up more of a fight points to that being the most likely because, if last scum isn’t/aren’t mafia, then Chara loses, so I think last scum is most likely mafioso.

Are you arguing for or against there being more mafia? I don't think Chara's behaviour is indictative of much, there was a guilty on it. Not much you can do regardless of whether or not you have a partner.

[Morning Tweet]

Wolves //

Morning
Drusilla
Skitts
Raven

Not Mafia //

Dunnstral
Beeboy
Midway

Anything //
Clover

i really want to hear Clover's claim. he's been building up hype for it for a while now

[Morning Tweet]

With all that said:

I am the even night watcher that got the result on Chara.

ahh, there it is

I think I would probably vote outside of skitts/Raven, dru/Clover, and midway. If it's not beeboy and/or Dunn then i've got wrong somewhere

[Morning Tweet]

@Morning Tweet

Why didn't you and Kanna roleswap? That is, why didn't you claim the alignment cop? Or did Kanna not give you a chance for that?

At the start of the day i assumed she had gotten a ww result on Nahdia. the first she claimed the mafia result was in thread cause she got really excited

i did actually say something like "Well i could've claimed cop instead"

She then wanted to still try to lightly hint that's what we were doing by "slipping" that our

pair

had a factional cop (not that she was one)

Actually, it’s impossible any one of me/morning are scum considering

we have a factional cop

which is a better kill than a bodyguard. Also we discussed together who to cop and if either of us were scum, we wouldn’t have copped nahdia.

i believe that was this quote^^

goodbye friends o7

she was also prolly trying to bait them into swapping by seeming assured of her death here, although that's just a guess of mine^^

[Morning Tweet]

Sorry but I’m not buying your falling on your sword for MWB like that. You know it would make Dunn super suspicious if you didn’t hard defend him and you haven’t given me any reason to think I’m wrong on any of the 5. Plus, both Nahdia and Tux were both hard distancing you like MT pointed put yesterday.

I was pointing out that Nahdia made a BS case on beeboy, who was attacking Tux. Seemed like super obvious chainsawing to me but i thought it was

too

obvious. i didn't really comment on beeboy

[Morning Tweet]

Sorry but I’m not buying your falling on your sword for MWB like that. You know it would make Dunn super suspicious if you didn’t hard defend him and you haven’t given me any reason to think I’m wrong on any of the 5. Plus, both Nahdia and Tux were both hard distancing you like MT pointed put yesterday.

I was pointing out that Nahdia made a BS case on beeboy, who was attacking Tux. Seemed like super obvious chainsawing to me but i thought it was

too

obvious. i didn't really comment on beeboy

So, you think I’m wrong then? But why would he offer to be executed before MWB? I find that really really weird.

I kinda lean against beeboy being aligned with Nahdia. Could see beeboy as scum i suppose though

It's tough -- no one seems like mafia to me

[Morning Tweet]

Well ya but that'd apply to any kill

I think the only significance of the Kanna kill was that for some reason scum didn't care that they'd get a guilty result on them for doing it. That and I really think they should've killed me

[Morning Tweet]

MT release me, I can now die knowing I tried my best.

why me ! ?

I'm only interested in releasing Kanna's killers

[Morning Tweet]

for what's its worth I dont think beeboy is mafia aligned based off the tux/nahdia stuff. They'd have been bussing their only PR sooner or later. I guess it could have been a huge distancing play early game although I doubt it

[Morning Tweet]

believe me if i could stop kills, Kanna would still be with us

[Morning Tweet]

I do not think it's extremely unreasonable to consider that there may be a second scumteam without a kill. However, it is arguably less likely. What would their flavour be, I wonder?

I will try to get to the bottom of this sometime later. The timing of dru's claim seems like it will be important.

Do you think that it is possible scum merely had a global backup as their lone power role? No lying about it required if that's the case. I would argue that scum is quite strong as is, being mod confirmed to be aligned with us and being able to kill. I dont think they should get a crazy good power role if its just mafia spies.

I think I may just analyze who is most likely partnered with Tux/Nahdia and go from there. All the grouping nonsense aside

[Morning Tweet]

Because I think Dru is a scum role blocker who faked a guilty.

you think she's explicitly teamed with nahdia/tux?
isn't she the one who came up with star/lilith aren't paired together so tux must be scum?

think that was beeboy.

[Morning Tweet]

no dru came to that conclusion first, bee agreed with her / saw where she was goign with this afterwards

ahh I missed that

Remember on D2, I ISO’d Nahdia and said it absolutely cleared bee and Skitter and to a lesser extent Clover and implicated Dru? And now beeyboy has come to the same exact conclusion.

We have 0 evidence of a third faction and she is basing her mafia deas/3P scumteam on what exactly? One freaking no kill? And she insists me and Skitter have to be that 3P scumteam. Very conveniently Nahda tried to frame both of us with a “skittered” post and another with a Raven gif. So Dru, assuming this 3P scumteam exists and it were us, how would Nahdia have known this? Are you seriously going to argue that Mafia was informed not only of it’s existence but WHO they were?

The fact that prior to the no kill you apparently dismiss it all as wifom while still inexplicably shading me and Skitter for commenting on them and today, suddenly Nahdia has apparently solved us the game? I think my sides are hurting for laughing so much now.

Well it seems that either scum has a mechanic stopping them from killing or they cant kill. If there is such a 3p team as Dru mentions, it would probably have to be you/skitts or Dunn/Beeboy, it wouldnt make sense otherwise.

I dont think Nahdias wifom posts matter much, I'm certain that mafia wouldnt know the identities of the third party. Has Dru been arguing that Nahdias end of day posts are implicating you? Classic Dru conspiracy.

[Morning Tweet]

Do not forget that Nahdia knew werewolf hood flavour. They had to have been with a wolf, surely

[Morning Tweet]

Presently I don't think I want to vote beeboy

pedit: ya prolly not

[Morning Tweet]

Presently I don't think I want to vote beeboy

pedit: ya prolly not

I feel pretty confident on bee!town now.

Raven
Skitter

MT

MWB
beeboy

Dunn

Clover
Dru

I have already explained Dru but if I’m wrong, Clover voting Skitter is very concerning because he flat out ignored my valid case on Skitter town and his vote didn’t seem the slightest bit hesitant. I still think Nahdia’s ISO spews Dru as her partner and somewhat clears Clover and as MWB pointed out, Chara/Tux was a gonner after Kanna made it clear he was her #1 sr, so no scum in their right mind would try to save him after Kanna flipped.

That's basically my reads, but like I still haven't made myself comfortable with voting Dru.

I am not too concerned by Clover not wanting to take for granted the hoodmates trusting each other. I suppose you could argue that him not taking your word for it is a sign that he's scum wanting to keep options open, though.

agree that Tux-Chara were 100% dead that next day. They were being copped and if Kanna died we'd kill them.

[Morning Tweet]

I don't think you're getting an answer to that.

If Dunn's role would benefit from an extra night I might support no exile

[Morning Tweet]

Well I like that he unvoted Skitter but I find it really perplexing that anyone who receives a werewolf role pm, would not auto assume they were scum. Me and Skitter were convinced of that and after Star flipped, Skitter wondered if we would have been aligned at some point. I thought she might be our traitor, although I did think it odd that watcher would be a scum role. And when Lillith flipped ww bg, we figured out we were actually town.

So, I’m not confident on Dru either but I don’t see why scum pr!Dunn wouldn’t kill her or you and I’m tr everyone else and Nahdia’s ISO looks the worst for Dru. I would give Dru townpoints for being the first to claim ww but based off of my role pm, I don’t see any reason to assume that scum wouldn’t know that the wws were town.

We should probably ask all the pairs to case each other. Skitter and I already did and bee is no longer confident on Dunn. So @Dunn, what is your current beeboy read? @Clover? @Dru? same question.

It’s also slightly concerning me that Clover wants to execute only amongst the vts. I see no reason why vts have any greater scum equity, because based off of setup balance the game is ridiculously townsided if last scum is actually a goon.

Also, none of my reads point to scum being in any of the vt claims.

I think that Clover did say he believed he was scum D1 and it was a miswording that caused him to suggest he thought he was town D1. Unsure though he can say for himself

Ya the mafia knew werewolves were town the whole way through

sniff

idrk know why Clover wants a VT claim, curious to hear about that

[Morning Tweet]

I don't think you're getting an answer to that.

i also think it's pretty unlikely to be answered. especially since 'scum' could be referring to multiple factions, et cetera et cetera.

also, i think whoever is going to be eliminated today if we do eliminate someone should always hammer themselves when at E-1 after someone says they would hammer because of the 'brave volunteers' thing from the flavour.

Why would you even advocate for this? I vehemently disagree with this.

No one should self hammer especially if they’re town

, that’s (no offence) hella dumb and anti-wincon.

Dru puts a lot of weight into her more conspiracyish theories. I can only assume she's hypothesizing something happens to the members of today's lynchwagon

And to be fair she said they should only self hammer after someone else expresses the intent to hammer them. Doesn't really matter that way

[Morning Tweet]

I don't think you're getting an answer to that.

i also think it's pretty unlikely to be answered. especially since 'scum' could be referring to multiple factions, et cetera et cetera.

also,

i think whoever is going to be eliminated today if we do eliminate someone should always hammer themselves when at E-1 after someone says they would hammer because of the 'brave volunteers' thing from the flavour.

@MT, what is your take on this post? In what world does town advocate for a self-hammer? I have yet to ever find a game where self-hammering of any alignment helped town.

I think you're missing dru's point. She just wants to replace whoever would have hammered with the wagoned themself, on the very unlikely off-chance that something happens to the people on the wagon

No, i dont get why. No i don't think it's an anti-town suggestion

[Morning Tweet]

The self-hammer dru proposed would not deprive town of any information

[Morning Tweet]

This is what Dru is proposing, no?

Raven votes Dru
Beeboy votes Dru
Skitts votes Dru
Dunn votes Dru (L-1)
Morning says "I hammer Dru"
Dru selfvotes

That doesn't change anything other than spare Morning in the unlikely event that a meteor shower obliterates everyone on Dru's wagon, or something

I don't really know what Dru is worried will happen but it doesn't deprive town of information and is basically harmless. I am inclined to believe that Dru believes what she is saying when she has these crazy ideas about the setup. That's probably what makes me not want to vote her the most

[Morning Tweet]

So do you and Dru think we have a supersaint or something in this setup? Because that’s the only reason I can see for that?

He thinks he's figured out a way to reverse the curse of lunacy, but he'll need a few brave volunteers to help him test it out.͘

this was the extent of my reasoning for that proposal.

it is harmless as the person being eliminated would be eliminated anyway and we know who would have hammered as the person only self-votes after someone else not on the wagon says they would hammer in this situation.

For what it's worth i think the brave volunteer part is referring to the person we're killing with the vote. So in other words its a standard elimination

[Morning Tweet]

We're never going to progress if the other pairs stay in this mindset. There's no teamwork here it's just self confident reads. As someone who is not a confident person maybe I just don't understand that style of play but this path we're going down of saying you'll die for your partner is just, not a good one.

i would die for Kanna

Well Clover i get what yer saying but I don't really read skitts/Raven to be scum at all regardless. That just leaves ur group and beeboy's group. And i don't think it's beeboy.

Who would you exile before Dru again?

pedit: Didn't Clover already make the readslist?

[Morning Tweet]

Personally I feel that we should give Raven this one read, meaning that Skitts cannot be scum without Raven being scum as well. And I don't think Raven is scum. That is how I have been approaching it.

i think saying "

Reaallly

scrutinize your partner" isn't going to change whatever it is that is causing Raven to be so certain. Clover's adamance on trying to get her to reevaluate on skitts seems pretty pointless. She's already come to a conclusion from what she had, telling her to look back and try again doesn't really make sense

[Morning Tweet]

I dunno everyone but Dru raises the question.
Why can't scum interact with our 1 million power roles.
And if they can interact why not block the watcher?

Cop guilty -> watcher guilty. Just seems like such toxic game design without counter play.

i think there is merit to this-- follow the cop has to be averted in some way. A bodyguard, even night watcher, and a player who can replace any of the other three seems like a lot. You could potentially get a guilty + claim it, get protected by the BG and get another free result, get protected by the backup BG and get another result, then get watched and have the watcher give you another guilty. That's 2 guilties + 2 extra results

Yeah I think based off of 2 protectives, a cop, and a role that replaces the first one to die, that seems OP when compared to a vanilla scumteam, even if they're spies.

Could be 4 mafia though. Would that be fair? 3x mafioso + 1x universal backup, plus two of the mafiosos are spies.

[Morning Tweet]

You asking us to basically bet the game that you both are confident enough to townread each other due to pt interactions is a bit much and I think you should see that. Beeboy and Dunnstral were hard townreading each other for ages and beeboy just started to show some interest in lynching his own partner.

No one is calling you or skitter stupid, but asking us to just trust both of you when we have no idea on what we're trusting you on is a lot to ask for Raven.

It's not really betting the game. just our reads at this current moment in time. It's no big deal for me to assume if Raven is town, then skitts is town. I don't get why it is for you

Think that Raven, beeboy, skitts, and midway are wolves.

Want to say that Dunn and Clover are wolves.

VOTE: Dru

[Morning Tweet]

Could be 4 mafia though. Would that be fair? 3x mafioso + 1x universal backup, plus two of the mafiosos are spies.

Hm no. Maybe 3 mafia, 2x mafioso 1x universal backup. All three are spies.

VT - (Dunn)
VT - Cop
VT - VT

Bodyguard - Mafioso
Even Watcher - Mafioso
VT - Mafia Universal Backup

Lone VT (Negative utility)

[Morning Tweet]

VT - (Dunn)
VT - Cop
VT - VT

Bodyguard - Mafioso
Even Watcher - Mafioso
VT - Mafia Universal Backup

Lone VT (Negative utility)

-Mafia starts out knowing the identity of the wolf bodyguard and wolf even-night watcher. They will know who the BG and watcher are targetting and can adjust accordingly
-Mafia has a universal backup, essentially letting them choose which power role they want via NK or lynches
-Mafia gets a more or less free lynch D1 since everyone thinks they're scum
-Mafia is falsely mod-confirmed to be allied with their hood mate, making it really hard to tell what we're even looking for (had the Cop not got that lucky guilty)

Actually, if this is the setup, it makes sense that mafia doesn't get any more power. This is a lot.

They know who both the protectives are and who the protectives are targeting!

[Morning Tweet]

VT - (Dunn)
VT - Cop
VT - VT

Bodyguard - Mafioso
Even Watcher - Mafioso
VT - Mafia Universal Backup

Lone VT (Negative utility)

-Mafia starts out knowing the identity of the wolf bodyguard and wolf even-night watcher. They will know who the BG and watcher are targetting and can adjust accordingly
-Mafia has a universal backup, essentially letting them choose which power role they want via NK or lynches
-Mafia gets a more or less free lynch D1 since everyone thinks they're scum
-Mafia is falsely mod-confirmed to be allied with their hood mate, making it really hard to tell what we're even looking for (had the Cop not got that lucky guilty)

Actually, if this is the setup, it makes sense that mafia doesn't get any more power. This is a lot.

They know who both the protectives are and who the protectives are targeting!

Would follow the cop be an issue in this setup? Sort of. Mafia know the identity of the only player who can stop them (the bodyguard). They also could in theory dodge the watcher because they'd know it only works on even nights.

But in a mass claim scenario you'd still have to kill through the Watcher and BG before getting to the Cop, which doesn't seem fair. A roleblocker would assist mafia a lot, beeboy is right. But also Dru claimed to be a backup immediately to Clover from what I'm gathering. I don't know, hm...

[Morning Tweet]

It's possible that Tux was a lone mafioso and Nahdia was paired with one of the two wolves. Idk in any case I think that scum did have a lot of stuff that could have gone well for them, im pretty sure they knew the identity of at least one PR (probably Lilith) and the werewolf flavour via being a spy

As long as Raven is town, skitts should be. Midway is town. Beeboy is town, which suggests that Dunn is either a townie or is going to be cornered. Clover I don't really read as scum, he seems town to me, but he is somewhat left on the outside. And then there's just Dru who is both a power role and on the outside

I don't really believe in the extra scumteam theory too much and could reasonably see a scum!Dru try to get raven/skitts or beeboy/dunn exiles by no-killing and pushing that theory.

Unless I've fucked up down the line on Raven/Skitts or Beeboy i think we'll be fine

[Morning Tweet]

If Tux was lone mafia wouldn't that point to midway?

I could see a lone mafia and a lone VT. Midway wouldnt

have

to be paired with one of the dead

[Morning Tweet]

If Tux was lone mafia wouldn't that point to midway?

Except for that @MT. I think Tux and Nahdia were extremely likely partners. Also, Hectic didn’t differentiate the two flips.

we were told we "forgot" how to nightkill, so i thought maybe we would remember it at some point?

someone on the mafia team had a hold of this flavour. Making me think there's a spy. That'd also explain the power discrepancy.

If there was a lone mafia and lone VT, there would have to be a third loner.

Well ya that'd be starbuck or lilith, one of the dead.

[Morning Tweet]

Midway said he was a lone wolf in name though.
Which is inconsistent with those flips.

@Midway

are you a werewolf, or are you something specific like a "Lone Wolf"?

[Morning Tweet]

Even if you ignore the setup stuff and lynch me first, Dru is clearly scum next.

i just feel like a lot of your push on her comes down to:
mafia need to have an rb and nobody's claiming it so it's dru and she faked being a watcher to bus her own partner

unless i'm missing part of it ?
and like i fundementally think that lolclaiming watcher as an rb in order to guilty your partner is just like ... weird?
and if there's an rb why hasn't there been any evidence of it?

like i just don't get it

Well in this scenario, Dru has already claimed Uni Backup to Clover. She can't go back on it

Then she becomes a watcher, which of course forces her to watch Kanna.

and I mean Tux-Chara was gonna die no matter what so really it'd just be a win-win

[Morning Tweet]

ah, ok that makes a bit more sense, i guess
but there's literally no evidence of a rb ... ?

N1 there were no outted PRs
N2 Kanna was going to be killed by Chara no matter what, no point in RBing. Dru would be scum so of course she doesn't get roleblocked. Although i suppose there's an argument that she could have pretended to get roleblocked. hm..
N3 Dru no kills to frame a secondary no-killing scum faction as being the last ones left. No outted PRs once again

[Morning Tweet]

blafioafoaafakoa8afkn

this doesn't make sense

i second this notion

We should probably kill Dru though

[Morning Tweet]

Dru>Dunn >>> Clover>Beeboy=Midway >>> Morning>Skitts>Raven

i'd probably be mind blown if there's mafia outside of Dru/Dunn

If Dru is right and we're not searching for mafia that sucks but I'm just gonna not think abt that for now

[Morning Tweet]

2572 is a pretty good showcase of Nahdia's D1 stance on Dru. Definitely don't see any issues with that being SvS

[Morning Tweet]

ok i reread drunk!nahdia's defense of dru think and i'm ... just not as convicned that it's svs?
like idk it doesn't really read partner-y to me

Not even beeboy's points change ur mind?

Nahdia was under pressure by many people and I was a strongly "town read" player voting them
Nahdia was the largest threat to scum!beeboy so it isn't hard to know I wouldn't want them left alive.
My only compromise was "vote Dru"
Nahdia proceeded to claim to not read their posts and defend them. Why defend Dru???
Nahdia knows I am scum and I don't actually care if they die.
Feels like both a baseless defense that isn't based on prior things they said in thread and a risk for them to take.
You can pile drive Dru and walk off free day 2

Like it's already pretty neutral and hedgey on it's own, but also the timing of her not having an opinion on Dru isn't great either

[Morning Tweet]

To clarify Nahdia's quotes don't convince me it's SvS on their own, but they don't do anything to make me believe otherwise. Whereas in Beeboy's case... i'd be quite surprised if Nahdia/Tux treated their partner like they did during RVS. what a weird way to begin the game

[Morning Tweet]

I do not think it's extremely unreasonable to consider that there may be a second scumteam without a kill. However, it is arguably less likely. What would their flavour be, I wonder?

Vampires? Maybe they're a cult and they turn other people into vampires.

I don't think a cult in this game would be balanced, Vampires fits the lovecraft theme this game has though

That'd be awesome. I love vampires, it's a shame they're heavily associated with culting so they're never used

I'm leaning against there being an additional scumteam now

@mt i see what you're saying but i don't see her starting day2 the way she did if she's mafia
(especially not without a plan for what tux/nahdia would claim later in the day once we all went thru the revelation ?)
like it just doesn't make sense coming from a mafia pov with how she thinks about the game

i did read beeboy's nahdia/dru things and i'm just not really convinced

That's the way i was reading it too, but like, i dont really see who else it could be. If she claimed Uni Backup to her partner, then she had to 'fake' a guilty on Chara, there was no choice.

Additionally, that way they'd at least get something out of Chara-Tuxes' death-- a decent looking Dru

Ok if Tux was for sure gonna die. And we're in a town dru world. Her not being blocked makes sense

Who else would they block!?!?!

[Morning Tweet]

MT - Is town or they would have shot Kanna
Raven - Is town through play near day 2 start where they were too confused on what was going to be scum
Skitter - Is town via above ^^^
Clover - Felt incredibly similar emotions to the ones I feel now, on day 2. Feels like weird emotions to try and fake and is very townie.
Midway - Scum are unlikely to have no partner as that's a huge advantage this setup offers. I am not against the theory they are a 3p if we mislynch next though. They also seemed pretty confused SoD2.

Me - Dunno
Dunnstral - Dunno but above Dru
Dru - Pls don't get me started on this

Pretty much perfect yeah

Like I'm just trying to figure out Dru's predicament to make my vote on her feel more confident since i dont really scumread her, but i wouldn't vote for any of those top 5 at all so does it really matter?

[Morning Tweet]

But it to some degree would show he thought he was a WW that could use that PT for actions

My action counted

Can confirm they work in the PT. also,

You can see that I stopped calling Clover scum on day 3

AH that makes sense.

Although I wouldn't really expect scum to be havin ppl other than Nahdia/Tux kill on those first two nights

[Morning Tweet]

unofficial VC, i think it's correct

[4] drusilla: beeboy, Raven, Morning, Dunnstral

(L-1)

[1] beeboy: drusilla

[3] Not voting: midwaybear, Clover, skitts

[Morning Tweet]

if anyone is definitely going to hammer me please just say so and i will hammer myself for reasons already addressed.

(；﹏；)

[Morning Tweet]

(；﹏；)

people are so sure i'm somehow the third mafia in a game in which i don't even believe there to be a third mafia and having the knowledge that they are very wrong and yet so sure and not being able to convey that to them even though i feel it is very obvious from my play across the board and skitter being the only one who sees it while i'm not even sure i'm aligned with her is

(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)(；﹏；)

idk where else to go \(;﹏;)/

I'm not sure at all but I don't think we're dealing with a third party. And if that's the case, then who would the third mafia even be?

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:

Well it's not me + beeboy

like, if we're dealing with a 2 man non-mafia team, that's probably what it'd have to be. Right? So i can't really accept that there isnt more mafia cause i dont think beeboy/Dunn is the case

[Morning Tweet]

UNVOTE:

Well it's not me + beeboy

like, if we're dealing with a 2 man non-mafia team, that's probably what it'd have to be. Right? So i can't really accept that there isnt more mafia cause i dont think beeboy/Dunn is the case

Why can't they be in other pts like the mafia were

And if that's the case people who were in pts with power roles aren't necessarily clear

ughhhhhhhhhhh. Lemme call them vampires

Well Raven and skitts vouch for each other, so i dont think they're disaligned. You and beeboy vouch for each other i assume.

My reads on Clover/midway mostly have them as werewolf. I suppose it's possible that midway is a vampire who is bullshitting the lone wolf thing.

I could be a vampire maybe since Kanna wasn't threatening to me, she was threatening to mafia.

So that's like me, Clover, and midway in that case. Do Clover and midway seem aligned? Idrk cause i've been tunneled on thinking both are wolf

[Morning Tweet]

it said no midgame alignment changes but there may be other bastard elements.

/in to mod

Is it possible your game has any of the following bastard roles or mechanics?

No cults or mid-game alignment changes. There may be other bastard elements.

I guess we’ll find out then, I don’t think anything bastard has happened so far. Does anyone here believe town is superstacked? I know MT thinks scum is informed but it’s just really weird to me.

If Nahdia was in a werewolf PT with one of the dead and they have the same flavour/role PMs i have, this is absolutely bastard. It heavily implies that Kanna is a werewolf

How else would Nahdia have known about us forgetting how to kill?

[Morning Tweet]

Not to mention we still don't know why solo scum Tux just shot into a watcher?
Or how uninformed Chara would somehow know to kill the cop claim without reading the game?
They would either know about 0 or both the claims I feel.

Tux was getting copped anyway. Might as well take Kanna down with him

[Morning Tweet]

Not to mention we still don't know why solo scum Tux just shot into a watcher?
Or how uninformed Chara would somehow know to kill the cop claim without reading the game?
They would either know about 0 or both the claims I feel.

it seems possible to me that the pt said specifically that kanna was a cop due to her having outed nahdia without it saying my role.

Well thankfully, we have MT to confirm or deny that.

You want me to what?

You mean whether or not i was told Kanna was a cop? I wasn't. It wasnt in my PM nor the PT. She told me immediately of course

[Morning Tweet]

I'm hovering over unvoting to see what midway and skitts and stuff do in the case that dru is town

but i dont know if i wanna do that to u guys and keep it going

pedit: I had the choice and i ended up not doing it

[Morning Tweet]

This will be interesting. Yes beeboy is town

[Morning Tweet]

I have 2 paths to auto win but I’m gonna talk to dru on it so they can fact check it

dru is dead

LOL

[Morning Tweet]

how do you know people are telling the truth about their roles?

Mid were you scum this whole time without telling us

wow and i thought we could trust you

[Morning Tweet]

Isn't that kind of redundant?

[Morning Tweet]

Haha well, i guess

[Morning Tweet]

Good start. I think

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

hangover wisdom:

perhaps if i feel the need to get drunk in order to have the spoons to play mafia, mafia isn't a good game for me to play?

...

i have looked again at midwaybear's ISO, in search of a counterwagon because i do not want to be lynched and maybe skitter isn't happening? there are parts of it i really dont like, but there is also content i look at and think "yes, i agree". but i suppose agreement a townread does not make. or, should not anyway. not alone?

similar to how i am reading skitter as making a bit of a leap in her push on me, i think midway's entrance has some of that "aura of scum mindset". he accuses dunnstral of attempting to be super scummy as wifom. why as town would you not just think... he's scummy because x, and is therefore scum? or why not think perhaps he IS too scummy to be scum, and is therefore town? he continues down this path many steps, not keeping his read too surface level, but instead overcomplicating it.

guys I have basically no reads
this is not good

this still heavily pings me. couple with a lot of "i dont get _______" posts. it's sort of similar to what some reactions to raven's "i dont get nahdia" but i think the clear difference there is that raven stayed consistent on what she wasn't understanding and it looked more like attempting to sort rather than just excusing herself from forming reads. midway on the other hand is the opposite. he comments on plenty of stuff, but doesn't get most of it and has no real stance.

---

i have also looked at drusilla again, as requested, but i am unconvinced. i would vote there if need be, but it is not my top choice. beeboy you make the point that i should be looking at her partner reads similarly to how i read skitter. but idk, i feel they are different. i disagree with how drusilla is reading the game, but i

can

follow the logic step by step to meet her. so the things that give me pause, even if they could be faked, actually do outweigh other concerns?

Nahdia brings up midway as a counterwagon while being pushed. They end up concluding that midway is LHF (973). Sort of feels like a scum hedgey read on a townie more than a distance but idk

beeboy, lilith, Clover, Tux, Dunn, midway, drusilla, MT

3 of you need to pony up and vote skitter!

or! alternatively! we powerwagon midway

"hey guys im gonna ignore everything going on in the thread oh golly oh jeeze why i dont have any reads"

bear. if there enough people actually active and willing before deadline, i would actually consider that!

Ah and then they propose mid as a compromise

You know ive completely forgotten about that D1 midway wagon mess lemme look at it

¶

Votecount 1.24

[5] midwaybear:

Dunnstral, Starbuck, beeboy, Clover Ebi, Nahdia

[4] Starbuck:

Tuxedo Mask, skitter30, lilith2013, Kanna

[1] skitter30:

Raven Branwen

[1] Dunnstral:

midwaybear

[2] Not Voting:

drusilla, Morning Tweet

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to throw someone down the well.
The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-10 09:18:09).
V/LA section. Joint mod iso.

You guys think Nahdia would try to bus? that was a pretty serious wagon if i recall correctly

[Morning Tweet]

fuck fuck fuck

im sorry dru

im sorry skitts

[Morning Tweet]

Raven (VT) -

Skitts (VT)

Morning (VT) -

Kanna (Cop)

Beeboy (VT) - Dunn (Detective)
Clover (VT) -

Dru (Backup)

Nahdia (Mafioso)

-

Starbuck (Even Watcher)

Tux (Mafioso)

-

Lilith (Bodyguard)

Midway (Lone Wolf)

[Morning Tweet]

I'm gonna guess that Beeboy/Raven/Midway are wolves, leaving Dunn/Clover as the only people I'd suspect immediately.

Haven't done any reviewing yet but I'd prolly guess Dunn is just last mafia

[Morning Tweet]

Long story short is I think midway plays better then this as both alignments.
Legit both his wolf game and his town game is a lot more transparent then this. The guilties probably knocked the steam out of him.
Which feels like exactly who you want to target with an investigative.

Fair enough. my play changes if the game solves itself via roles as town too though

The thing about midway is that D1 counterwagon Nahdia created onto him. They kind of had groundwork to choose at least a couple other people but they slowly started building suspicion on midway with a couple posts and tried to pivot the Starbuck wagon onto him. If im remembering that right. It seemed like a decently serious wagon

But i will agree that midway has been a bit different than usual. Felt like that during D1 too though