Silent Star 1: Lunacy

[beeboy]

Drusilla let's play a game, I am on the scum team.
I shoot you, wake up we have no guilty.
I then vote Clover Ebi saying they shot you.

How does town use this info to lynch me.

[beeboy]

I see what skitter is saying, but what does drusilla gain from a false guilty?

Clover Ebi has something to gain if this is their role.
The fact they literally did it day start though is giving me pause.

[beeboy]

This game is too powerful given every claim can be swapped with your neighbor, boiling every single kill down to a 50/50 outside the original watcher Starbuck.

[beeboy]

Why does the scum not have a roleblocker in the.

Cop + Watcher
Bodygaurd + Bodygaurd
+ Other mystery role setup.

Did this sites peprception of balance change while I was gone?

[beeboy]

also sorry did you just claim bodyguard in your pair or did you mean to write backup instead of one of the bg's?

I am being as nice as possible while saying what the back up is in terms of setup balance.

[beeboy]

an odd night ninja?
Then Dru has no result right now.

[beeboy]

dru i still don't get it, sorry :/

@beeboy why assume odd-night? i'm saying the lack of rb and going for the watcher might make sense if some non-chara person killed dru (this isn't super likely but it would make the night actions make more sense to me)
i sitll think that chara's slot is scum on play tho

I was being sarcastic because we have an even watcher.

I'll be blunt, this claimed power just doesn't make sense from a balance POV.

[beeboy]

They didn't realize we wouldn't believe a bodyguard and watcher would be paired. So it's not something they evaluated, otherwise it was a good play.
I don't think it's that complicated.

[beeboy]

@midwaybear, if you're legit a doctor I am claiming next post lol.

[beeboy]

Drusilla if you are fake claiming on behalf of Clover, I want you to know I am not reevaluating you if this flips town. That is all.

I'd vote Chara but I don't feel like rushing the day, but that is what I plan on doing.

[beeboy]

they were pretty subdued, i'm assuming unhappy about being wolf/mafia, iirc Nahdia doesn't usually enjoy it. they said they didn't trust Tuxedo mechanically, and that they weren't feeling this game, but still didn't want to be bussed. it didn't seem like they were very into it in general, still. they also claimed cop, i think after the werewolf = town became obvious.

When did they claim cop?
Can you give me a rough time stamp not an exact one cause that's cheating?

[beeboy]

I just wanna know what Nahdia said in the PT in case this is a cursed path

I am cautious, but it doesn't mean I won't vote Chara.

[beeboy]

Clover why are you playing in absolutes?
Don't get me wrong I strongly believe me and Skitter are wasting our time but I think it's the correct way of doing it.


I just find it odd you're approaching your read on Drusilla this entire game with utmost certainty.
Noughts and Crosses you just didn't strike me as someone to play like this at all?

[beeboy]

I'm a player who likes thinking of future events. I also like to townread people until proven otherwise. The main reason I've seen to doubt Drusilla is a reason I myself brought up but almost no one commented on. Along with a Nahdia interaction. Regardless of my personal viewpoint on her is it not as simple as we lynch Chara and Drusilla if it's wrong?

Are you saying it's weird that I'm showing a bit of confidence? Well, this game is different. I can't play this game like I would normally it goes against my entire style because people were playing like werewolves and all of day 1 I was saying I couldn't find scumreads. I would have to restart the game all over again and feel even more useless than before. I'm not confident, in fact this is probably the least confident I've been in any mafia game. That's why I'm trying to rely on others than myself. Is that what feels different?

re:confidence, kinda?

This game has too much power and only me, dunnstral and skitter seem to be aware of that.
I rely on others frequently, although I find even if I trust someones reads I am not going to trust them or not question what is going on I guess? Before I concluded Raven was town I strongly though Skitter was town and sort of just let it happen.

Scum is between, You and MT. Everyone else I strongly think is town for a tell you disagree with which is basically large shifts between when they rolled scum and now.
I also just think it's unlikely scum wouldn't be paired with a PR because I seriously don't see how scum play around this level of power without near full setup knowledge which s till isn't enough. Not to mention Mid had the best reaction day start.

I think Drusilla could be scum because scum should have a ninja or a roleblocker, which makes me think the action was "allowed" to happen if I am wrong on my reads. But that is a giga tinfoil I am not sure I want to act on hence scum being between you and MT.

[beeboy]

Me and Skitter are approaching this in an incredibly similar manner, so we have the same mind set, aka werewolves.
Raven is just obvious town, I think faking that catch up is nutty difficult not to mention meta is kind of busted in terms of a solving method and Skitter apparently has that.

[beeboy]

I mean level 1 which is usually enough to win a game.


Level 1 mafia tells me the following:
Chara is flipping scum.
Scum shot Kanna because they didn't need to take the 50/50 on them which they did on you and Drusilla.

So the "worse" shot on Kanna was better since MT is last scum.

[beeboy]

^^ so if we aren't tin foiling anything that is the games solution.

[beeboy]

I mean level 1 assumes all claims are truthful and scum don't make mistakes / gambit.
I think this playerlist is above that but what do I know I've been wrong before over thinking game staes.

[beeboy]

Tbh I think I always get clear here which is kind of nice?
The Nahdia/Me/Tux thing makes it so I am not scum that way.
And I am also not scum with Dru :^)

Ez money.

[beeboy]

Am I allowed to role fish in the open or are we not at that stage yet?
Asking for a friend.

[beeboy]

Am I allowed to role fish in the open or are we not at that stage yet?
Asking for a friend.

please do. i think all the information on the table is good at this point.

Me and Dunnstral aren't VTs. Hbu fam?
@Skitter @Raven?

[beeboy]

Me and Dunnstral aren't VTs. Hbu fam?
@Skitter @Raven?

we're vt's

Neat.

[beeboy]

I don't want to end the day before we all check in.
Seems silly to me.

[beeboy]

I mean the other option is scum is MT in which case instead the scum have knowledge of our literal full cop?
Or I guess Dunnstral could be scum but I am not emotionally ready to humor that.

[beeboy]

I just don't see why Dru claiming a guilty outed scum matters.
We concluded Tux was scum yesterday?

[beeboy]

I just don't see why Dru claiming a guilty outed scum matters.
We concluded Tux was scum yesterday?

No we didn't

I mean we can flesh out details tomorrow I guess.

I just remember yesterday we concluded that the Bodyguard+Watcher couldn't be a town pair together meaning 1 pair was lying and was scum/scum. I thought no one disagreed with this?
So we needed 1 scum/scum pair and we didn't have any candidates for that.

Idk they weren't outed but its not great for them either.

[beeboy]

Scum could be Skitter, I don't think me being bad is out of the question.

[beeboy]

I mean we can flesh out details tomorrow I guess.

I just remember yesterday we concluded that the Bodyguard+Watcher couldn't be a town pair together meaning 1 pair was lying and was scum/scum. I thought no one disagreed with this?
So we needed 1 scum/scum pair and we didn't have any candidates for that.

Idk they weren't outed but its not great for them either.

i feel invisible to you mostly. like 'ah yes i thought drusilla was right about the game solve and so did everyone else but she is probably scum' seems unreasonable to me but alas.

I think my read is a lot more grey then black and white.
I don't want to go too deep in an argument yet while we have Chara on the table.

[beeboy]

Once Morning Tweet and Raven want to vote I am.
Everyone else has had a chance to talk I think?

Outside Dunnstral I guess but he'll yell at me in the wolf PT if he wants to not vote.

[beeboy]

i kinda think mt is town tho :/

@beeboy, why MT over anyone else on the playerlist? She was my 3rd strongest town after Skitter/Kanna.

Not killing the watcher was super questionable play.
The only way I can justify it in my head was if you viewed killing the watcher as a 50/50. Meaning it could be either Dru or Clover claiming for the other.
But you knew for a fact Kanna was flipping alignment cop meaning it was a lower risk kill.

That could only be done from MTs perspective, technically.

[beeboy]

Does this look nicer than my current avatar?
I don't like changing my avatar very often but I've been rocking this off site for awhile.

[beeboy]

They did one of those day 1.
I don't think it's a town tell when he does it as scum.

It's just a playstyle deviation but this is an abnormal game state anyway since we have chain guilties.

[beeboy]

VOTE: Chara

L-2

[beeboy]

I think Clover wants a break I think is the vibe I got.

So up to Skitter and Dru I guess if they are done talking.

[beeboy]

Dunnstral/MT.
^ Last scum if Kanna flips scum.

I am done with day phase. Free me from my flesh chamber.

[beeboy]

Chara*

If i am wrong please ignore the correction to the typo.

[beeboy]

I think Dunnstral already posted my answer.
I've seen people refrain from posting role pms because it keeps your scum bros "blind" on your role. So they don't just out you for being a day vig or something.

[beeboy]

I don't really want to talk about Dunnstral until tomorrow.

[beeboy]

Burying Dunnstral, then being night killed is low on the list of things I want to do.
He is a big boi that can defend himself without me.
And you are all competent enough to catch him without me.

[beeboy]

I don't feel like looking up the scum threads in every large theme I've ever looked at to find the 1-2 times I've seen someone ask that.

[beeboy]

Of course!

[beeboy]

Tbh I don't think its in our best interest to continue to declare reads, I don't want scum to make a more informed decision.
So the varying states of my reads and whether or not I changed my mind again will all be information scum will no longer recieve.

I reccomend everyone else do the same.

[beeboy]

We are doing this middle ground pro scum thing, where we claim guilties ASAP to lose natural interacions.
Then we explain all our thoughts for the next day so the scum kill doesn't suffer.

Idk I think we are messing up right now.

[beeboy]

MTs clear. I didn't think of that Dunnstral

[beeboy]

idek who is scum anymore.
Someone help.

[beeboy]

I just don't think Dunnstral is scum, he keeps tin foiling everything.
It's so weird for scum to play like that even if they can.

But now I just am town reading everyone
Jolly gee being bad at mafia sure is fun.

[beeboy]

Morning Tweet really wanted that hammer, don't be a hater.

[beeboy]

What the...

[beeboy]

The fire burns a deep red colour, the knight nods and says that the ritual is now complete. Spoiler: [/spoiler] The mayor says that the curse of lunacy has yet to be completely removed, and that it is a tragedy for the townspeople to remain as werewolves for their whole lives. He thinks he's figured out a way to reverse the curse of lunacy, but he'll need a few brave volunteers to help him test it out. He claims that he can even do something about their amnesia, returning the werewolves back into the people they used to be..͘

Guys reading this flavor I think the werewolf flips so far might be on town...

[beeboy]

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to duel someone

@mod is this mechanically significant or just the standard elimination?

I doubt it is but let's save the tin foil

[beeboy]

What the...

could we get a report as to why you suspected dunnstral and your non-vt status now?

Meh tbh, if we go back to odds I'll do it.

Uh my post was a joke btw I spoke about ww being town a lot.

[beeboy]

Yeah it's just flavor it's like when I called the mod scum.
It is just us being silly lol

[beeboy]

Because the kill was blocked so hiding information from scum until it is blocked again is the best line of play.
Since 1 blocked kill = no reward
2 = +lynch

[beeboy]

For clarification I tin foil Dunn

I just don't see outing as optimal with 1 scum left whether he dies now or f3 doesn't matter we win either way.

[beeboy]

I am clearly informing you I don't plan on saying what flavor of non VT we are.
I claimed for 1 purpose, me and Dunn are worried the other will die and will claim VT. And that lets us feel safe with each other.

Sorry if that is bad for the group :/

[beeboy]

Clover why do you want me to town read this?

[beeboy]

I don't know how that kill was blocked.
I wanted to stay ambiguous to avoid POE towards other pairs of werewolves. I called you scum because I feel like you are trying to force me to claim. But town do this all the time so whatever.

We have never seen evidence of another kill and 2 factions taking turns doesn't make sense because the even watcher is just nutty strong relative to most power roles in the game of mafia so I can't see what only harms this other mysterious faction.

[beeboy]

Where does this 2 faction theory come from?

[beeboy]

Why does Chara talk about self hammering if their is another team? Not like Chara gains anything with a next level bluff to let a 2nd faction live.

WW is just town to me so I am not thinking of it as a 1st or 2nd faction

Technically we have like 5 ww factions it's just not worth thinking about.

[beeboy]

Self hammering as solo scum is literally a game throw.
Chara would only do it if we had scum #3, I don't think that was a lie because it's stupid to protect a 2nd scum faction at the cost your wincon.

[beeboy]

People can lie about claim
Scum can forget to submit kills.

A faction that can't kill is just do incredibly bizarre to me I don't want to look for it
Chara wanted to self that is an act to cut off info that is anti wincon.

[beeboy]

Why lie about that if you already lost?

[beeboy]

The pr we have doesn't make sense as 3rd mafia's power

[beeboy]

Not saying either of us can't be another random PR claiming something else.
But that can apply equally to everyone.

[beeboy]

does either make sense as a non-mafia no-nightkill third party power?

Yes but I mean every PR makes sense to find opposing scum.
Outside exactly IC.

[beeboy]

I take issue with your POE being 3 towns.

[beeboy]

I don't really have anything to say to convince you guys we aren't scum.



If you don't think the interactions where I push onto Tux and Nahdia just dives in to hard case me as scum. All while Tux talks about me all game is an act of scum.

And also view the section of the game where I vote park on Nahdia while they refuse to vote Drusilla isn't conclusive evidence for anything. Then idk.


I think I just play this game on a different level from the rest of you and I am not sure what I can do about that.
Sorry.

[beeboy]

Drusilla.

[beeboy]

But you don't think Chara was outed, which again just makes me feel like I am playing a different game.
I am paranoid of Dunnstral.

I have role based reasons to not go after you or Skitter. Neither of you are being targeted so I am not "avoiding helping you solve the game" not explaining this.
Everything else is town by play.

Drusilla has the negative Nahdia interaction and Chara was already outed.
But you disagree on both these points, so hopefully I am wrong and Dunn is in some kill-less faction.

[beeboy]

hopefully I am wrong and Dunn is in some kill-less faction.

I think this is a particularly weak reason to suspect me

Not voting you is the hill I am going to die on.

[beeboy]

The problem with this game is that day 1 I thought I was scum, then days 2 and 3 there was instantly a guilty outed, and now clover is saying I haven't done anything, like wow!

+1 he complained about this earlier btw in PT.

[beeboy]

I still don't get why you and Drusilla outed the 2nd guilty instantly.
I thought we spoke about how MT outing the guilty that fast was bad for the town?

[beeboy]

I don't know why you think that if you weren't in this game Chara was never getting killed.

[beeboy]

I don't think it was complicated analysis and wasn't Dunnstral the one who pointed out the hard evidence that Watcher - Bodyguard couldn't be paired together reasonably?

[beeboy]

I don't think it was complicated analysis and wasn't Dunnstral the one who pointed out the hard evidence that Watcher - Bodyguard couldn't be paired together reasonably?

I'll find the timeline order on this but.

I think the order was Drusilla tin foiled them as not partners for different reasons.
Dunnstral came in saying that Bodygaurd and Watcher can't be paired together after.

Or am I wrong on this?
I have this issue where Dunnstral told me things before he posted them in thread, and I also read our PT before the thread so I don't know if how I perceive events to be accurate.

[beeboy]

I may have done so in our pt

I know you did in the PT and I know I posted in thread as if it was my idea if you didn't :^)

I just don't know if Drusilla used that argument before or after one of us.
Because that was the mechnical nail in the coffin for Chara that puts it above just saying they could be paired together which a lot of people said. Since the tin foil doesn't actually get Chara killed, it's that argument that makes me think scum knew they misplayed and Chara was always dying.

[beeboy]

If you guys do assume Raven/Skitter are town and I am in the POE.
Can you guys be nice and start with me?

I don't really want to sit here as you guys lynch my town reads, it would make me really sad.

[beeboy]

People can't just turn on town posting you either read my current posts as town or you don't.
Nothing I post can further prove myself as town then positive interaction with all the flipped scum.

I literally can't do better then that, and this game isn't worth spelling out my scum meta tbh.

If you aren't convinced then vote me.

[beeboy]

I don't think scum have this much power stacked against them.
And also don't have a partner they can manipulate easily?

That is the strongest tool scum have in this setup and not giving it to them with all these PRs would scuk. If I had a reason to believe the power was more balanced then I'd humor him but I don't we have to basic flips.


If this game has an arsonist that would be kinda funny on review with all the fire flavor.

[beeboy]

drusilla looks up at the sky.

His confidence on you kind of reads like an omgus now in retrospect.

VOTE: Raven

[beeboy]

UNVOTE:

I voted you to see if you'd reeval given I definitely scum read Dru before they "scum read" me, quotes is due to me not sure if Dru scum reads me. So I get a strong vibe my posts aren't being read / retained when forming this read on me.

[beeboy]

I claimed for 1 purpose, me and Dunn are worried the other will die and will claim VT. And that lets us feel safe with each other.

wasn't he your biggest townread yesterday/two days ago?
weren't you so convinced he was town that you wanted to be lynched before dunn if it meant that people would townread him upon yoru flip?
this quote is incongruent with that mentality

Town can grow paranoia.
If I slowly eased into a scum read on Dunn then you could say I have an agenda but I don't think this actually indicates scum.

[beeboy]

so when did the paranoia start happening ?
and how do you presently read him?

Vanilla flip.
Unsure.

[beeboy]

>we claim
>you realize you shouldn't lynch us today
>scum play around me and Dunn which they couldn't previously do

I really like this line of play you guys are forcing, very cool.

pedit: yes.

[beeboy]

Unless you're voting me because you think I am most likely to be scum then go ahead.
But forcing me to claim is honestly just the worst approach.

I don't know how the kill was stopped, no other information I can say should matter to you.

pedit: You're not reading my posts so I feel I could say the same about you?

[beeboy]

Tbh I don't have an argument on why I can't be on some 2nd scum team.
I don't have a read on who can be on this 2nd scum team.

I argued already why we are in single ball.
I think Tux/Me/Nahdia wasn't scum theater and I am not sure how you guys can see other.

[beeboy]

I think Tux/Me/Nahdia wasn't scum theater and I am not sure how you guys can see other.

can you give me a refresher and/or quote the beginning of this

>Tux "your shit post SoD is scum"
>Me "your read sucks on me"
>Nahdia "you're over reacting to this and are scum"
>Me *backs off*
>Tux *keeps going*
>Me *vote parks nahdia for half the day*

It went on for awhile weaved between other posts. Idk I don't think I can fake that as scum.

[beeboy]

^ Keep in mind everyone was scum at that moment.
Vote parking someone and backing it up while not pushing it hard has a risk.

Which is why I scum read Dru, because nahdia risked their own life keeping my vote on themselves.
Not to mention day 2 that entire sequence doesn't matter if they let Dru die.

[beeboy]

in my defense. i did not read drusilla's posts.

im sobering up. my power wanes.

i was mostly referring to that first thing. it reminded me of how you read clover, so i was curious if you had thoughts on it, but i can see the line you're drawing between them. it's fakable, but it struck me as something scum would just be less likely to think to fake, you know?

frankly, i'm not sure i like hearing "fakable" in response to stuf like that! sure, virtually everything is fakeable. but it can still be more likely to come from town than scum for xyz reasons. it just feels like a catchall way to dismiss reasons to townread people so options stay open.

idk. town can also be dismissive of that stuff. i just think more stock should go into that sort of tell.

i have also looked at drusilla again, as requested, but i am unconvinced. i would vote there if need be, but it is not my top choice. beeboy you make the point that i should be looking at her partner reads similarly to how i read skitter. but idk, i feel they are different. i disagree with how drusilla is reading the game, but i

can

follow the logic step by step to meet her. so the things that give me pause, even if they could be faked, actually do outweigh other concerns?

/shrug I still read this as scum theater

[beeboy]

I also still think I am the only player actually casing their target.
Everyone after me and Dunn are just hiding behind POE.

[beeboy]

I think Tux/Me/Nahdia wasn't scum theater and I am not sure how you guys can see other.

can you give me a refresher and/or quote the beginning of this

>Tux "your shit post SoD is scum"
>Me "your read sucks on me"
>Nahdia "you're over reacting to this and are scum"
>Me *backs off*
>Tux *keeps going*
>Me *vote parks nahdia for half the day*

It went on for awhile weaved between other posts. Idk I don't think I can fake that as scum.

weren't we talking about possibly voting them too? Because it was like, they were pushing you. But I wasn't reading the game closely at all at that time

Idk I said Tux was 100% scum but I wouldn't go after him since it was risky.
You asked if that was actually a good idea.
And we agreed to go after real scum reads if it wasn't threatening to us but not to risk ourselves since we can be wrong.

So kinda we did that.

[beeboy]

^ Keep in mind everyone was scum at that moment.
Vote parking someone and backing it up while not pushing it hard has a risk.

Which is why I scum read Dru, because nahdia risked their own life keeping my vote on themselves.
Not to mention day 2 that entire sequence doesn't matter if they let Dru die.

Why does Dru bus Chara here, especially after Nahdia flip? Tell me how this makes any sense.

Me and Dunnstral both don't see the world Tux lives after that.
Bodyguard + Watcher doesn't make sense as a pair.

Nahdia hard defended Tux.
Ect ect ect...

[beeboy]

They target the same person?
Confirming the town that got shot all while getting a guilty.
Scum then need to kill the watcher leaving the conf town alive for an extra day.

It's not something that is supposed to be in a game together.

[beeboy]

I also still think I am the only player actually casing their target.
Everyone after me and Dunn are just hiding behind POE.

But you voted me. Based off of what you’re saying here, that makes 0 sense.

Dru did the same thing towards me.
This is why I feel like people are just piling on me because they can.

Because it only matters when I do it.

[beeboy]

I don't think you guys want to think I am town, so I don't think I can do anything about my wagon.
I've cased Dru 101 times.

I think I am just clogging the thread right now.
Gl readjusting.

[beeboy]

Kanna was the cop....

[beeboy]

Actually. Dru commited to the watcher claim before the guilty?
What were they going to do SoD before they got a reaction, claim they targeted the wrong person and risk just losing on the spot?

VOTE: dru

yeah, I am ok with this.

[beeboy]

MT release me, I can now die knowing I tried my best.

[beeboy]

MT release me, I can now die knowing I tried my best.

Dafuq is this?

I am not readjusting and me not readjusting is half the reason I am being voted?
But I am pretty content with my case and how I don't really believe how it's being addressed.

So I am basically just saying I am too stubborn to see myself live here lol.

[beeboy]

I am not voting you.
I voted you because I was frustrated you weren't reading my posts.

Idk what other explanation you want.

[beeboy]

your "case" is based entirely on a few posts by nahdia and completely ignores everything i have done this game. if you think the setup is 10/3 and that i am the remaining mafia, that means that you think i claimed werewolf at the beginning of day two without informing my partners and did not account for the ramifications for them, which i obviously would have considered and did consider what it might mean for the people who were paired with lilith/starbuck which is extremely evident from my very first question upon revealing:

I mean it was a conversation I had with Nahdia that contains more then 4 posts, I just picked out the notable ones.
Said conversation had an agenda associated with it, aka not getting me off nahdia and onto you since I was being sticky with my vote.

You're making it sound like it was an off comment calling you town, I was pressuring Nahdia to try and get them to vote you. And they just wouldn't despite me voting them as the compromise. Nahdia would also know I see them as a threat as scum, and I wouldn't be inclined to kill them "for free" if given the chance. Idk it feels like awful play.

I mean I don't have to assume that? You have an entire night phase to talk about it. You would have known the 2nd werewolf flip was coming well in advance I don't think this argument holds up given you didn't claim within 10 seconds of noticing the flip as mafia. You claimed after a minimum of 2 irl days knowing 2 werewolf flips were coming.

[beeboy]

I mean I don't have to assume that? You have an entire night phase to talk about it. You would have known the 2nd werewolf flip was coming well in advance I don't think this argument holds up given you didn't claim within 10 seconds of noticing the flip as mafia. You claimed after a minimum of 2 irl days knowing 2 werewolf flips were coming.

yes so you think we talked about it for an entire nightphase and came up with a plan that didn't account for their pairings and got them killed? does not make any sense.

You never said Watcher + BG didn't make sense balance wise to be together. Why should I assume you knew that wasn't a reasonable pair given you never said that?

I don't think "Tux and Nahdia could have traded pairs" was enough to ever bury Tux without the guilty, and at this time Clover knew you were a watcher. Clover dying also puts you in a shit spot since Clover is dominantly the one that won't vote you.

[beeboy]

Also I don't know how anything you've done so far would suggest you can't be a part of this 2nd scum team you keep making theories for?

You aren't exactly outing yourself since evidence points towards you being mafia so you don't lose much convincing us that faction is dead.

[beeboy]

@Raven you wanted this.

Spoiler: Evidence Here

in my defense. i did not read drusilla's posts.

im sobering up. my power wanes.

i was mostly referring to that first thing. it reminded me of how you read clover, so i was curious if you had thoughts on it, but i can see the line you're drawing between them. it's fakable, but it struck me as something scum would just be less likely to think to fake, you know?

frankly, i'm not sure i like hearing "fakable" in response to stuf like that! sure, virtually everything is fakeable. but it can still be more likely to come from town than scum for xyz reasons. it just feels like a catchall way to dismiss reasons to townread people so options stay open.

idk. town can also be dismissive of that stuff. i just think more stock should go into that sort of tell.

i have also looked at drusilla again, as requested, but i am unconvinced. i would vote there if need be, but it is not my top choice. beeboy you make the point that i should be looking at her partner reads similarly to how i read skitter. but idk, i feel they are different. i disagree with how drusilla is reading the game, but i

can

follow the logic step by step to meet her. so the things that give me pause, even if they could be faked, actually do outweigh other concerns?

Why the Nahdia defense matters.

• Nahdia was under pressure by many people and I was a strongly "town read" player voting them
  
• Nahdia was the largest threat to scum!beeboy so it isn't hard to know I wouldn't want them left alive.
  
• My only compromise was "vote Dru"
  
• Nahdia proceeded to claim to not read their posts and defend them. Why defend Dru???
  
• Nahdia knows I am scum and I don't actually care if they die.
  
• Feels like both a baseless defense that isn't based on prior things they said in thread and a risk for them to take.
  
• You can pile drive Dru and walk off free day 2

Why the guilty doesn't matter.

• Dru claimed Uni backup, post 1 in the scum PT (if this didn't happen Dru is just larger scum lol).
  
• Dru had to claim a guilty
  
• Scum likely thought it was "obvious" Kanna was a cop. Dru claimed before they realized some townies didn't think that.
  
• Claiming to "miss" with your watcher is just a scum claim with extra steps if Kanna was obvious in your eyes
  
• Tux was both a VT and was never end gaming anyway his life wasn't high value.

[beeboy]

i said it seemed an unreasonable pair before anyone else did. i don't understand why you would need me to have said why.

The why matters. Otherwise it's just a statement people are likely to glance over.

from your perspective i could be part of the third faction, in which case why would i be solving for a third party when other people weren't?

no it doesn't. the "evidence" is still a conversation you had with nahdia that ignores everything i've done this game.

What is this "everything else" you keep bringing up that makes you town? The only thing I've read it Clover says you are town for PT stuff.

We had 2 days with back to back guilties what do you want me to take our of those 2 dead days?
Why do I care you are trying to convince me the mafia faction is dead when I am accusing you of being a member of mafia?

None of that is clearing for you.

you still haven't explained why i would start day two pushing tuxedo mask based on posts he had made day one, or really anything else. like i said, you simply ignore me and say i'm mafia because of nahdia.

I did in the above post, you saw the guilty, knew you were a watcher and thought it was obvious Kanna was the cop.
You literally had to claim the guilty and prepping for it causes you no risk what so ever.

[beeboy]

for what's its worth I dont think beeboy is mafia aligned based off the tux/nahdia stuff. They'd have been bussing their only PR sooner or later. I guess it could have been a huge distancing play early game although I doubt it

i don't think there is any mafia left alive, and beeboy thinking something chara said after being hammered outweighs the evidence in favour of the likelihood of a third party also makes little sense to me.

Multiple people are making this argument. Some of which literally have to be town.

But it only makes little sense from me because I am threatening you :^)

[beeboy]

Saying opinions I share with the sections of the thread don't make sense which is why your pushing me is just an awful case.
Some of those people have to be dtown.

You're singling me out because it's convenient for you.

[beeboy]

I am ignoring posts that apparently make you town.
But you aren't referring to those posts and neither is anyone else.
So I am not sure what you are suggesting I am ignoring.

The push back on me which involves a load of cross over with acts other people in this thread are doing?

[beeboy]

You also aren't voting me or suggesting who else you think is scum.
So I don't actually know what I am supposed to look at and go.

"ah yes this is what I am missing"

Your just sitting here trying to throw shade at me.
If you called me or someone else scum then sure, but I can't just sit here as nothing happens and reevaluate.

[beeboy]

I do not know how the kill was blocked
Yes

[beeboy]

Dru why are you more concerned with defending yourself then voting me?
Do you have a reason to vote me that isn't something someone else is doing?

This exchange isn't helping me "see the light" really

Pedit: no Dunnstral always knew what I claimed to him I always knew what he claimed.to me.
Not like I can change my claim lol.

[beeboy]

You don't need Dunn unless I just scum claimed for fun

[beeboy]

beeboy i think dru is town, p strongly

Name the 2nd scum assuming Dunnstral is just scum
Which may not even he right.

[beeboy]

This game sure would suck if the killless faction didn't even have a fake WW buddy

[beeboy]

Skitter then vote one of me or Dunnstral if the faction is paired and it can't be anyone else.

[beeboy]

I'll save you the motions

[beeboy]

Me and Dunn don't know.
If Dunn knows, he is scum so who cares.

[beeboy]

Skitter what is scums power role if I am scum here?

Because I think Dru is a scum role blocker who faked a guilty.
Didn't kill to create chaos today, knowing that whichever one of me and Dunnstral claim a protective role can be blocked and the other can be killed.
So putting us at evens came at no risk.


What's your theory, Dunnstral is a vanilla goon and opted to not roleblock the watcher?
I am a roleblocker opting to not roleblock Dunnstral every single day because he is getting feedback?



Skitter your theory is arguably worse then mine because you don't know what scum power is doing.

[beeboy]

Skitter I seriously want you to tell me what you think scum power is up to.
Since we've seen no evidence of any of it, and the only one that makes sense coming from is Dru.

[beeboy]

Because I think Dru is a scum role blocker who faked a guilty.

who also thought, ah i should claim global backup before the game started? still not making any sense.

Why did you wait until post 7 to claim your role?

[beeboy]

Why did you wait until post 7 to claim your role?

asked our glorious moderator if i was allowed to copy paste it, was told no. made a hello post, compiled songs, clover ebi made three posts, i replied to one of them, then i claimed and ask his role.

tbh if anyone thinks this is clearing and not scum with additional information trying to town spew then idk.

[beeboy]

Why did you think copy pasting a role pm served a function "I am a uni backup", didn't?

[beeboy]

You know if you plan on bussing someone with a guilty you don't really need to defend them the prior day right?
I don't see this argument at all, nothing Tux posted makes Dru town a shit load of Nahdia posts say the opposite.

[beeboy]

Can someone tell me why the scum roleblocker doesn't target the claimed watcher as they try and shoot the cop?

Please help me with this.

[beeboy]

so day2, while nahdia was going down, mafia!dru formulated a plan to bus her other partner via a hard-guilty?
i'm confused why she wouldn't have just helped them avoid the whole mess by telling them to claim to be paried with lilith/star ?

You are a claimed watcher and you need to shoot the cop?
Why not sac the goon

How is this unrealistic shit play to you

[beeboy]

because why bother going down the watcher route at all to bus her own partner when she could have easily just ... not?
like i don't get why scum!her claims watcher in the first place?

If I flip town power role.
Are you just going to assume Dru is still town?

Or is

Cop
Even-Watcher
Bodyguard
Uniback up.
+ Other role

Goon
Goon
Goon

A balanced setup to you?

[beeboy]

Or are you going to assume the roleblocker just didn't block the watcher?

[beeboy]

a) how do you know there's a roleblocker?

Because I assume this game has a semblance of balance?
What is a rolecop going to do watch the scum die?

If scum had bus driver you wouldn't have got a watch result because scum could have redirected you.

[beeboy]

3 scum roles interact with town power directly.

Ninjas, Bus drivers, Role blockers

2 of those mean the watcher guilty can't happen.
Roleblocker just not acting is stupid.


This town is way too powerful for anything else.

[beeboy]

why is 9/2/2 with what we know unbalanced?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fire_and_Ice

sample 9/2/2 setup?

[beeboy]

i mean i have a few issues with this post
- you're assuming town!you!pr, which is not something *i* can assume
- you're deflecting the question of why rb!scum!dru lolclaims watcher to bus a partner?

if you flip ww!pr i will reassess my ww!dru stance but as of right now, given hte information i have, scum!dru does not seem super likely to me

Ok then kill me, then lynch Dru after.
I don't care the order in which I win this game.

All I care is you lynch Dru which I strongly feel you won't do after my flip.

[beeboy]

Like scum NEED a way to interact with the town directly.

It's not a ninja, its not a busdriver.
The only other role i can think of is roleblocker.
Yet Dru didn't get blocked.

I refuse to believe scum just don't have additional power.

[beeboy]

I refuse to believe scum just don't have additional power.

i just think you are viewing the setup entirely incorrectly, perhaps intentionally.

Idk how you possibly think 5 power roles vs nothing is balanced.
Can you explain your opinions on balance and how I am wrong?

[beeboy]

I gave you a sample multiball setup that has a doctor/IC. pretend that is 2 power roles.
We have 5 if your town.

[beeboy]

You guys just take turns picking the Nahdia interactions
Or the setup stuff.

And don't realize that both of these can't be wrong at the same time.
It's just too damning.

Even if you ignore the setup stuff and lynch me first, Dru is clearly scum next.

pedit: I am not saying that she is scum, I am saying she won't lynch Dru after I flip town.

[beeboy]

1) i don't know that either you or dunnstral are werewolves.

I thought my posts were unreasonable for a WW to make.
If I am werewolf then all my statements about the setup become true right?

[beeboy]

2) the mafia were very likely paired with werewolves, thus they were basically informed of their roles.
3) as morning tweet has stated several times, the mafia having infiltrated werewolf pts is very powerful in and of itself.
4) a werewolf is highly likely to be eliminated day one because the werewolves do not know they are the majority.

I don't think this is 4 power roles worth of strength.
It's useful for scum but it's not 4 roles useful.

[beeboy]

You can't argue a setup where we get a cop guilty into a watcher guilty watching the cop.
Is somehow fair for scum if they can't interact?

Did I witness a different set of action from you guys?

@Skitter @Dru?

[beeboy]

Actually how do you think

>cop guilty
>scum can't kill cop cause watcher

Is somehow something Hectic didn't think of giving scum a way to interact with.

You guys are treating me like I am insane but I feel like I am doing 1+1=2 kind of math over here.

[beeboy]

You can't argue a setup where we get a cop guilty into a watcher guilty watching the cop.
Is somehow fair for scum if they can't interact?

both of those roles are confirmed in the game even without me. all of this is part of why i thought clover ebi was most likely the third mafia if it was 10/3, as he was paired with me.

I am arguing scum can interact with a roleblocker.
Then it becomes fair.

You didn't get blocked because you're just the scum roleblocker fake claiming.

[beeboy]

I’m trying to explain to her in our PT that as MWB already pointed out, Chara/Tux was a gonner so my initial theory of scum not bussing after Nahdia flip is meaningless. Yes, she’s backed off of me/Skittter but any scum pr - solo,or a team, would have likely killed Dru or possibly MT but not no killed.

Dru’s watcher claim is not backed up at all because she claimed to have a guilty on an already condemned slot, because Tux was Kanna’s #1 sr before she died.

Can you ask Skitter to reply to me on the Cop -> watcher guilty thing means scum have to be able to interact. Ninja/Bus Driver are impossible, so they need a roleblocker.
And Dru's claim was on the table at that point for scum to block.

[beeboy]

Dru still not voting me btw.

[beeboy]

Idk if Dunn is ok with this >___> but I am going to do it anyway since I think this game is just solved.

I am a VT, Dunnstral is a PR.
Dunnstral being the scum runs us into the issue where we ask why can't scum interact with town and why didn't he stop Dru's watcher.
So I am still going Dru first.


Me -> Dru -> Dunnstral.

Should just be game winning.
I don't actually care very much as to the order in which achieves a win. If lynching me makes you all feel cozy go for it.
Technically Dru and Dunn get results so maybe I should just go first?

But I really put 100% effort into my town game here so I don't particularly feel bad being lynched ngl lol.

[beeboy]

Dunnstral>Skitter>Dru

Tbh we have the same list but just a different order lol

Dru > Dunn > Skitter is me :^)

[beeboy]

I dunno everyone but Dru raises the question.
Why can't scum interact with our 1 million power roles.
And if they can interact why not block the watcher?

Cop guilty -> watcher guilty. Just seems like such toxic game design without counter play.

[beeboy]

Can you give me my one read and vote Dru

[beeboy]

Dunnstral>Skitter>Dru

Tbh we have the same list but just a different order lol

Dru > Dunn > Skitter is me :^)

So you think I’m an idiot too then? There is no way in hell Skitter is ever scum here, none. Why aren’t you and Clover listening to me?

I am not saying that.

I just don't scum read anyone else I guess?

The only other person I could really sub in is exactly Clover. But I just think Clover is town idk, I believe their frustration in the 1v1 I had with them yesterday and the whole feeling defeated thing is basically how I felt today when I first pushed Dru. So I sort of empathize with them in a way that makes me think they are town as they expressed the exact emotions I felt.

You and MT are just town lol.
I am town.
The other 2 players are already above Skitter on my scum list.

I can humor being wrong on Clover but I'd need to see the first 2 flips first, I highly doubt my reads are going to stay stagnant for 2 days.

[beeboy]

So Raven it's not that I choose to not trust you.
I haven't pushed Skitter the entire game for a reason.

It's just like, I just don't see scum Clover or scum MT world literally ever.

[beeboy]

Dunn immediately claimed a PR to me.
Then we have to start looking at me, Clover, Skitter if that is clearing.

I think they wanted to fake claim, picked a safe bet as Uni backup rarely interferes with other roles outside other back ups.

[beeboy]

The whole intimidate thing loses value when you literally have to do it that fast in order to be able to do it.
Scum likely knew they had to hide among PRs to some degree given all town PRs are claiming to someone instantly.

[beeboy]

To mess with town, scum have near full info outside Dunn.
You can no kill stick us in evens, create chaos, then move on.

Since it's not like town gains lynches by doing that.
I don't their is a better explanation then that, given the other one is Chara opted to game throw by killing into the watcher?

[beeboy]

Has Dunn's Pr been proven/can it be proven?

Realistically no.

[beeboy]

But the game also collapses on him if he is scum and uses a NA each night, he literally had to kill me and change his claim in order to win.
And that just isn't happening.

[beeboy]

Hey midway care to join on the Dru wagon?
We got lots of fun things here.

Cupcakes, Townies, Bats and much more!

[beeboy]

Midway said he was a lone wolf in name though.
Which is inconsistent with those flips.

[beeboy]

Even if you ignore the setup stuff and lynch me first, Dru is clearly scum next.

i just feel like a lot of your push on her comes down to:
mafia need to have an rb and nobody's claiming it so it's dru and she faked being a watcher to bus her own partner

unless i'm missing part of it ?
and like i fundementally think that lolclaiming watcher as an rb in order to guilty your partner is just like ... weird?
and if there's an rb why hasn't there been any evidence of it?

like i just don't get it

You have to fake claim post one as a wolf?
What was Dru going to do take back the uni back up claim?

Also I am almost positive I had a large set of Nahdia interactions I spoke about earlier to go with this setup stuff.


Idk I guess your tinfoil could be right the mafia power role just forgot they could stop Dru?
I don't know town is too powerful for scum to not be able to interact. You can just follow the cop in this setup without that.

[beeboy]

I am a VT, Dunnstral is a PR.

... didn't you both claim pr?

Why would I spell out to wolves how to properly interact with Dunnstral?
I got my point across that if I died and flipped VT and Dunnstral also claimed VT he was just scum back peddling something.

[beeboy]

See I don't think you are wrong on Midway, I just don't think that stops Dru from flipping as the last scum player?

[beeboy]

ah, ok that makes a bit more sense, i guess
but there's literally no evidence of a rb ... ?

Skitter I seriously don't know how you think

Watcher
Cop
Bodygaurd

////

2nd Investigative Role Dunnstral has.
or
Universal Back Up


Is somehow a fair setup without a roleblocker.
Literally the only reason I am not pursuing Dunnstral is Dru makes more sense to be the one fake claiming. From both play and Nahdia interactions.

[beeboy]

You can't just say "we have no evidence of a roleblocker"
Then say scum definitely can fight all that without interactions?


They could have a ninja sure? Oh wait Dru is still scum.
They could have a bus driver? Oh wait Dru's watcher still shouldn't have worked.

Like nothing makes sense if you think scum can interact with our follow the cop setup.

[beeboy]

Literally the only reason I am not pursuing Dunnstral is Dru makes more sense to be the one fake claiming. From both play and Nahdia interactions.

but there's no evidence of an rb ...
like pushing one existing by virtue of it 'having to' is kinda silly when *they didn't use it to freaking rb the cop ...*

Skitter how do scum beat follow the cop?
You can't answer this question because they literally can't without a way to stop a PR.

[beeboy]

Skitter I really don't get how you look at this setup and go.

"well its probably 3x Goon or we would have seen a block by now"

Idk why you don't want to believe the explanation :\

[beeboy]

Skitter how do scum beat follow the cop?
You can't answer this question because they literally can't without a way to stop a PR.

ok i concede the point that a rb could exist
i do not agree that it's dru tho

Dru is outed why not block her????

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[beeboy]

If you agree scum have to have a way to interact.
Then scum never let the claimed watcher just dome Tux.

And scum have to have a way to interact or we just win this game through mechanics with the Cop + Watcher.

[beeboy]

i mean why not block the cop then ... ?
how am i supposed to know, they've been making suboptimal decisions all game

The cop wasn't claimed n1, we were all scum then. They could have blocked anyone really.

For the night the watcher got us a guilty the cop was shot.
Why block and shoot someone?

Skitter pls idk what you are missing.

[beeboy]

[beeboy]

Ok if Tux was for sure gonna die. And we're in a town dru world. Her not being blocked makes sense

I swear people are jumping through hoops to say I am wrong.
Because you don't just avoid role blocking a watcher to hide the fact your roleblocker exists.

[beeboy]

I just, don't get why you all think this would be a fair setup if Dru is town here.
I don't understand why you don't see why me parking on Nahdia for longer to keep Dru alive was a good scum play on day 1.

:/ What do you want me to say here?
"Haha it's just Dunn after all lets go?"


But I can just bring up alll the faulty Dru arguments, why claim investigative post 1?
ect ect ect.

[beeboy]

why should that stop me from lynching her now?

[beeboy]

Dunn claimed investigative? Did he ever say who or what he investigated?

I know all of Dunnstrals results.
And the specifics behind his role.

He can claim if he wants, not my role to claim.

[beeboy]

Whenever I go to vote Dru I feel really sad help.

It's ok you can just blame me if I am wrong.

[beeboy]

MT - Is town or they would have shot Kanna
Raven - Is town through play near day 2 start where they were too confused on what was going to be scum
Skitter - Is town via above ^^^
Clover - Felt incredibly similar emotions to the ones I feel now, on day 2. Feels like weird emotions to try and fake and is very townie.
Midway - Scum are unlikely to have no partner as that's a huge advantage this setup offers. I am not against the theory they are a 3p if we mislynch next though. They also seemed pretty confused SoD2.

Me - Dunno
Dunnstral - Dunno but above Dru
Dru - Pls don't get me started on this

[beeboy]

bee if dru flips ww are u ok being voted out tom ?

That's generally what happens when you pile drive a town on your own.
So I would accept my fate.

[beeboy]

If I am wrong on Dru last scum is just Dunn anyway? Also I am not immature enough to not accept an elimination for literally throwing.
I was serious when I said the order it takes for us to win isn't a huge deal to me.
So like if me dying gets us to that end game easier then more power to me right?

I'd rather die and secure what I believe to be correct.
Then watch you guys chew each other out and mislynch town.

[beeboy]

i just ... don't think she's flipping scum here :/
i don't think i can vote for her rn

If it's not Dunn who do you think it is?
Because otherwise it's just me and it's just the same motions with different steps idk.

Trust me on this please ;\

[beeboy]

I disagree idk?
I just don't think the big picture allows anyone but her to be scum.

[beeboy]

This is just the one read I want idk.
I just think too many things points towards her being scum both mechanically and play wise.

You think she is town for something I think is pretty reasonably a bus on a scum player that flipped goon and was a slot held by a low confidence scum slot replaced by a player who doesn't like playing scum.

I don't see why Nahdia doesn't just kill Dru with me day 1 then walk it off as "hehe scum XD" it just doesn't make sense and compounds what happened to be a lot more damning then what your giving it credit for.

I feel like your reading day 1 like scum would be playing normally but they just aren't. They are playing assuming everyone is playing like scum and want the lynch on everyone but themselves.

[beeboy]

Like I am just very confident in this.

I think play points to Dru, I think you guys are reading the day 1 interactions like it's a normal game of mafia when it isn't.

Mechanically if Dru isn't scum, scum don't have the ability to interact with follow the cop.

I came to my play conclusion before I came to my mechanics conclusion so I know I am not being conf biased when I say "They are scum for 2 strong reasons"

[beeboy]

@DUNN I NEED YOU ON DRU MY DARLING COMPANION
PLEASE HELP ME

[beeboy]

Yeah sure, I am probably giving up and sheeping if Dru flips town tbh.

[beeboy]

I am very emotionally invested in this.

[beeboy]

@Dunnstral should you just full claim now?
I don't see a big reason to hold back tbh.

[beeboy]

Sure, I'm a detective

I check if somebody performs a kill the current night or the previous night

n1 Raven
n2 Clover
n3 Skitter

None of them performed a kill

See what I mean on not lynching Dunn?
He had to kill me during the gap day when the watcher was offline.
Then claim something that wasn't this, or he just loses.

Idk, it's why I am heavily leaning Dru.

[beeboy]

Best part is I can be wrong and his results eventually collapse on him and I win anyway :^)

[beeboy]

Dunnstral also submitted his action in the PT for whatever that is worth.
That is super small I won't lie.
But it to some degree would show he thought he was a WW that could use that PT for actions

[beeboy]

I feel kinda bad >______>

[beeboy]

I don’t believe both Dru and Dunn are investigative

she's technically a backup

She backs up like 2-3 investigative roles though

[beeboy]

UNVOTE:

Well it's not me + beeboy

Idk I really just don't think Dru is town, even if I feel about pushing them this hard :\
I don't think we have particularly better options, I know scum held back the kill so the Skitter result is meaningless.
But like I just am not ready to look elsewhere right now.

[beeboy]

@Midway talk reads for me, you aren't doing that and it is making me sad.

[beeboy]

Come and suffer like the rest of us!!!

[beeboy]

I feel like getting a wolf role pm as town is a bastard element.

[beeboy]

Dru making me feel so bad trying to lynch her wtf.
Can you just roll over and flip scum >:(

[beeboy]

Dru making me feel so bad trying to lynch her wtf.
Can you just roll over and flip scum >:(

i won't though. if you're willing to look at them i'll link you all of my completed games as mafia. like i am clearly not here.

Idk who I should be voting then.
And I don't understand this setup.

I just feel like you make the most sense here

[beeboy]

Why is their a second faction that just can't kill?
That feels so disadvantagous and unfair for that faction idk.

[beeboy]

Not to mention we still don't know why solo scum Tux just shot into a watcher?
Or how uninformed Chara would somehow know to kill the cop claim without reading the game?
They would either know about 0 or both the claims I feel.

[beeboy]

VOTE: Hectic

die mayor

[beeboy]

And not the other where Chara spoke about self hammering?
It makes no sense to also be selective about it idk.

That's why I am still just voting Dru, I feel bad if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure I am right.

[beeboy]

Not to mention we still don't know why solo scum Tux just shot into a watcher?
Or how uninformed Chara would somehow know to kill the cop claim without reading the game?
They would either know about 0 or both the claims I feel.

it seems possible to me that the pt said specifically that kanna was a cop due to her having outed nahdia without it saying my role.

kill: Dru

I want to get the watcher out of the way first

Why question a potential original kill?
Why does the scum PT only have 1 claim listed?
Idk I just don't think the scum team has 2 people or Chara just threw.

[beeboy]

I'm confused, what are we talking about?

why chara might have made the nightkill that it made.

In regards to a 9/2/2 game.

[beeboy]

Game being 9/2/2 with a kill-less faction over 10/3

I think the former is just a stall strat to keep dru alive tbh.