Mini Theme 2198: Animals Upick 2 [Game Over]

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Greeting

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?

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VOTE: April Ludgate

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If you're really a ninja visitor, then visit us

I'll vote someone else when I figure out who I feel like voting

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Ali made two picks, I made one

Mine was the false potato beetle but we didn't get that one

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?

Just in case it is lost on anyone, this is a gif of Koala from One Piece

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Imagine thinking that question will be answered before the resolution of the game of koalawang

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Imagine thinking that question will be answered before the resolution of the game of koalawang

it says "a round" of koalawank, which implies it is going to happen more than once.

I sure hope it's not a round of koalawank

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Assuming this is a reference to the mitchell and webb sketch 'Numberwang', it goes without saying that we wouldn't know anything much about the rules, stakes, etc

Typically the loser in numberwang is subject to some kind punishment


Apologies about not signing but thought it would probably be relatively clear early on that all of these recent posts from this hydra were me

-jj

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i forgot i in'd into this game and almost forgot to post in it

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i am going to continue to ignore the game goodbye

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The king thinks people who try to assume things about setup are scum

What's the logic here

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I don't recognise your authority so what else is there

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Did nothing change since then?

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Ali literally just messaged me asking about why nothing was happening in this game

I think Koalawang is probably the distraction here

VOTE: Korina
is always a good vote

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You don't have to play though we can just elim you

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Oh god that probably means there's more mechanical shit invading this day phase

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It's a good wagon though

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Why the cold feet on it?

-jj

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I'm going to continue voting you, noting your tendency to lie about your role

-jj

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I don't know what your claim is because it's a soft in a theme game

I don't know if your claim is true

I don't know if it's almost always a town aligned role because I have no confidence in your play or knowledge

I don't know what has led you to assume scum have a janitor, but I do know this is an inherently flawed assumption with which you are happily inflating your sense of self-importance

I don't know what your claim being a dog has to do with anything

I don't know why your first assumption is that I am scum who doesn't think they can NK you, when in the scenario where I was scum and you were town then the reality would be you are probably the easiest miselim in the game

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KOALAWANG

A ROUND OF KOALAWANG HAS ENDED

The winner of this round of koalawang is PenguinPower!

The D1 prize is for us to leash their vote at the time contest ended, so long as it isn’t a hammer.

you chose to trigger a competition which would require you to give up your vote to the 'winner'?

I don't think that's the real prize

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I'm going to just hardclaim then:
I'm a coroner. What purpose is there for a scum coroner?

Rolecops and false conclusions

Claims/fakeclaims

Town coroner in a theme setup doesn't mean there's a scum janitor, especially given my suspicion that at least a portion of roles in this setup are net-null PRs functionally equivalent to a VT

A role does not need a purpose

Your 'crumbs' mean jack shit when you decided to claim halfway through day 1 and did so in a way that had no risk of being picked up if you didn't point it out

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You missed the point

I am literally saying that, while there is little benefit to a scum coroner, there would be benefit in that a town rolecop who makes assumptions could think it was an inno when it isn't

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You missed the point

I am literally saying that, while there is little benefit to a scum coroner, there would be benefit in that a town rolecop who makes assumptions could think it was an inno when it isn't

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Nothing has happened in the game and it is very easy for me on a personal level to be aggressive towards Korina

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we're just going in circles, and the only thing I remember about you jj is that you genuinely pissed me off in gamma's game from a while ago.
so, to that end, i'm going to step away from the thread, and not post until I'm off work tomorrow.

pedit:
so did i, or at least a tracker.

So you do remember that game! Where you fakeclaimed as town and then insisted that I was scum for catching your fakeclaim!

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I would say this is far from at a point where you need to step in and deescalate things considering this has been game related

I've primarily been attempting to correct misconceptions here

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I'm gonna be honest I don't actually think it is any more

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It's still all me

Alisae is waiting for me to say something has happened before e steps back into the game

-jj

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I didn't make the vote on Korina with an actual scumread there
Just had reasonable chance of flipping scum when I've got some townreads elsewhere in the game, and that's enough for me to vote Korina

However, I think all the incorrect assumptions that Korina has made and the stubborn insistence on maintaining them could well be town!Korina

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Like, we're not very far into day 1 and a bunch of the pages were taken up by Koalawang so I'm kinda surprised you think I had enough of a read for it to be significant that it has reversed

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It was a read you appeared to be quite secure in considering the stage of the game. That is part of what seemed quite unusual to me.

That's how you get content from RVS, and as I've said it was very easy for me to amp up the pressure on Korina

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Are you telling me that you seriously haven't realised Whemestar either has or is pretending to have a post restriction? I am leaning the former

-jj

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A town godfather would do the same as a scum godfather

A godfather always appears as town to alignment checks
Not that hard to comprehend. I've put a scum miller in a setup before and it's the same theory

-jj

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Mod confirmed our role was real.

Tbf - mod confirmed koalawang was real. We don’t actually know your role.

Anciliarry: do you have to follow my vote or are you stuck for the day on korina?

We are only leashed to the vote you made at the time Koalawang ended so yes, we are effectively treestumped for today.

Prove it and try to vote elsewhere

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UNVOTE:
Should probably do this for now

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If S&M tells the truth they're probably a town role? I mean if this was a scum role it wouldn't make sense because scum don't want to give the prize to town, and it would be too obvious to always give the prize to your teammates, especially if you flip. Unless S&M are lying and know the prize always affects them so it wouldn't really matter who wins to some extent.

This is very poor logic and you should rethink it

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A town godfather would do the same as a scum godfather

A godfather always appears as town to alignment checks
Not that hard to comprehend. I've put a scum miller in a setup before and it's the same theory

-jj

You seriously think scum!Noraa does this as a fakeclaim? Really? I’m really trying to figure out if your slot is being deliberately obtuse or whether you’re actually scum. You shade me for no good reason whatsoever, now you’re also accusing Noraa of lying too?

Mine is mod confirmed and also negative utility because had Penguin been voting us, we’d now be self-voting.

Tell me why tf Noraa is even bothering to claim this role since she isn’t even being run up. If I could change my vote, I’d probably switch it to you. It’s scummy af for you to keep wrongly shading me for no good reason whatsoever.

Uuh, I don't think I said anywhere that I think Noraa fakeclaimed or is scum
Noraa is probably both telling the truth and town

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That post was literally me explaining what a town godfather would be for the people who don't understand

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When did I shade you?

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Okay but what happens if you vote someone else

I know you're saying you can't but if you were to actually type out a post where you vote someone else and post it then what happens

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Please do that

Voting related things are not usually post restrictions

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Ask him what happens if you unvote

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There's a key mechanical difference here that I would like to establish that is going way over your head

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For what it's worth, I haven't once said you're scum or that anything relating to this is scum indicative. This is just mechanics, not a push

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I can’t imagine a post restriction that interacts with voting mechanics. I don’t think you get mod killed for typing VOTE: WhemeStar [/.V]. If your telling the truth I would imagine your vote would just remain where it was

Did you literally not read what I just said?

He probably didn't given the 34 seconds between your posts

You feel way more defensive than usual in this game

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I'm very much aware. The key words there are "way more"

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This is the first thing I've actually pushed, and it's that you've misinterpreted everything else I've talked to you about as a push

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It doesn't particularly surprise me that you're still misinterpreting what I'm saying as a continuation of that

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When did I shade you?

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I don't know if it's town indicative or scum indicative and I don't trust self meta on this

I will reach a conclusion when I do; it doesn't particularly help for you to jump to conclusions on my behalf or to throw self meta at me

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Maybe later

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When did I shade you?

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I mean, it kinda is self meta, yeah

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You've consistently reacted defensively to things that weren't pushes after I told you I wasn't pushing you

It reads as super paranoid, especially when I'm someone that you consider good at reading you


But it's not damning because i do know how you play, so I don't have a firm read on you right now. I'm going to think about it. Preferably after you tell me where I shaded you


PEdit: It's self meta because the argument is about how defensive you normally are, which is subjective. It's something that different players can have a different opinion on, rather than objective fact. Which makes it somewhat meaningless from yourself

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When did I shade you?

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This is not a question that should take this long to answer

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When did I shade you?

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When did I shade you?

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You haven't answered my question

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I'm reading your responses but I'm not interested in continuing the conversation in any direction other than one that contains an answer to my question

PEdit: If there was an answer to my question it would include somewhere where you quoted me shading you

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This is aside from the koalawang questioning being after you said I shaded you

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A town godfather would do the same as a scum godfather

A godfather always appears as town to alignment checks
Not that hard to comprehend. I've put a scum miller in a setup before and it's the same theory

-jj

You seriously think scum!Noraa does this as a fakeclaim? Really? I’m really trying to figure out if your slot is being deliberately obtuse or whether you’re actually scum. You shade me for no good reason whatsoever, now you’re also accusing Noraa of lying too?

Mine is mod confirmed and also negative utility because had Penguin been voting us, we’d now be self-voting.

Tell me why tf Noraa is even bothering to claim this role since she isn’t even being run up. If I could change my vote, I’d probably switch it to you. It’s scummy af for you to keep wrongly shading me for no good reason whatsoever.

To what were you referring in this post when you said I "shaded [you] for no good reason whatsoever", and then again said that I "keep wrongly shading you for no good reason" as though it had happened multiple times in the game?

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I have at no point accused you of lying about the post restriction

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Furthermore, all but one post relating to your role has been after you accused me of shading you repeatedly. Which brings me to a familiar question...

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When did I shade you?

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I have already answered this to the best of my ability, so I don’t understand how you reposting this 100 thousand more times is going to change my answer.

I figure if I've actually shaded you, you would be able to quote me shading you, right?

So can you do that, please?

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Okay I guess you're next

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What makes this appear SvT here to you

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I logged into the hydra on my phone so I could post from work and you're all just gonna leave me hanging when I want to hyperpost?

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If S&M tells the truth they're probably a town role? I mean if this was a scum role it wouldn't make sense because scum don't want to give the prize to town, and it would be too obvious to always give the prize to your teammates, especially if you flip. Unless S&M are lying and know the prize always affects them so it wouldn't really matter who wins to some extent.

This is very poor logic and you should rethink it

I don't see the point of this being a scum role?

The role is less of a utility role and more of a theatrical one
I see relatively equal benefit in it being town or scum from a purely mechanical pov


This aside, the actual logic you used is pretty poor and it should be noted that this is a theme game and strange roles will be present just because

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Oh good, do you have tea or am I to be expected to provide my own?

Your approach to this reminds me of a rabid dog whom has found a meal. You do not seem to care for the responses being provided at all, nor do you seem to be considering the information that is being presented to you.

You have attempted an assault using metagame information, and when provided with a defence of the same nature you have denied it stating you dislike self meta. How else would you expect a defence to be mounted against such an assault? Your attack is based on information from other games and patterns you appear to have identified. The equivalent defence has been provided and you have dismissed it expecting an in-game defence of action.

While I will admit that simply having a moderator confirmed role aspect does not confirm alignment, for the sake of balancing I do not believe that would be a mafia aligned power; at least for now.

You are correct in that I did not care for the responses provided because they didn't answer my question. But I strongly object to the imagery used and feel you may be intentionally misinterpreting what I have said (in stark contrast to Nancy honestly misinterpreting what I have said and my intentions with my line of questioning.)

Nancy was trying to push me to one conclusion while assuming I was at the other, when in reality I was deliberating, doing so at my own pace, and most importantly awaiting the answer to a question that has still not been answered satisfactorily. I have clearly laid out my expectations for an answer to that question. I expect quotes from myself where Nancy perceives an attack, because I think this will give me some key insight here and I'm not personally going to be satisfied as to the extent and meaning of Nancy's defensiveness here until I understand how she perceives the attack.

I don't really have a problem with Nancy's defence except that Nancy believes that it should immediately lead me to conclusion that she is town.

Do not rule out roles here. This looks like a game that is packed with net null VT-esque roles and I imagine the scumteam is too. The thing with net null roles is that they're basically interchangeable whether they are town or scum because of their minimal game impact.

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On a final note:
I'm not done pushing Nancy yet because I still don't have an answer to that question, but notionally Nancy is easiest to place by her reaction when someone has pushed her

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You do have the option of placing S&M by play instead of by role

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Wait, mhtp- could you xlaeify what you mean in terms of the role not being scum due to game balance?

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How new are you to the theme queue?

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Wait, mhtp- could you clarify what you mean in terms of the role not being scum due to game balance?

Ebwop, thank you phone posting

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Your claim isn't very useful content to place people who aren't you

Since I locktowned you after it it's not really that important to me

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Nah it's all good

I don't think that most people would have the audacity to claim a town godfather as scum. I get the impression at least half the players in the game wouldn't have registered it as a possibility

Noraa can be self-absorbed about it if she likes. It only highlights more personality/playstyle/thought process stuff that makes it clear she wouldn't make the required gambit as scum, therefore she must be town

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I think we can move away from this now and back to me 1v1ing people who show up in the thread

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PP what read do have that you think I would disagree the most with

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Well that was truly frustrating. I had made a rather detailed post, and somehow my browser decided to have some fun it and tossed it aside. Bah.

To quickly surmise, instead of being a proverbial jack hammer and hitting the same point repeatedly, perhaps acknowledge the answer, detail why it is no good, and ask for the detail you require, perhaps even acknowledging politely that it may be you will not get the answer you are looking for.

As for the role... For now I consider it mechanically confirmed. As an anti-town role and assuming a 2 person faction I would consider this to lower their power for this day phase by approximately 40% - unless that vote is placed upon a slot which has become a viable elimination for the day. As town, it does considerably less damage, I'd estimate around 8% of the towns power has been lost during this day phase.

Given the various claims that only anti-town need fear the game, I am slightly suspicious of the awareness of prizes. Tomorrow will provide more information as to the overall impact of the role on the game. Their dedication to it and perceived transparency so far I find to be town aligned. Their rating of my gif I find to be insulting, but fair.

For today, I would suggest leaving them be and watching them when we have a greater knowledge of their potential, and there are other slots worthy of prodding and poking.

I consider myself well versed in the mechanics and shenanigans of the theme queues. I must confess, I am far from what would be considered a good mafia player and my W/L ratio is abysmal. I do look forward to running game weird shenanigans once again... PenguinPower will be amused to learn I was around at the time of 2of4 newbie setups, and was in one of the initial games of that setup. I have taken a rather long break in the interim.

I mean, when I realises Nancy thought she wasn't answering the question I did explain what I wanted from an answer, but the issue is that after explaining what I was looking for, Nancy still thought she had answered the question meanwhile I thought she was continuing to ignore it which I think led me to explain it again?

You are wrong as it is a 3 person scumteam as per the opening posts. We also don't know whether there is more to S&M's role as the results of the competition could have further implications that are being held back, eg PenguinPower could now be being secretly tracked or something.

Disclaimer: I am not saying that S&M have actually held back information about their role. This is a possibility and nothing more.

In other words, there is potential for the role to have undisclosed scum power to it.

I feel like you might not be too well versed with the possible scope of theme games nowadays so it might be best if you don't base too much on spec

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Even then, it would still be around a 27% impact in my estimations.

You say nowadays as though this isn't just an alternative account I'm using, and a character I am portraying to ensure no connection is made back.

I have been back on site for a while. I am fully aware it is far to early to begin clearing slots on mechanical information, I am aware there is possible drawbacks to create balancing. My own role allows some good shenanigans and I full expect there to be further shenanigans that interact with my role. My loyalty to my reads will be truly tested and tomorrow will bring forward an entirely different gamestate - barring "Koalawang" of course.

I said nowadays to avoid insulting you if you were an old player because old players have big egos
It was a more tactful way of me doubting your knowledge of the theme queue

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That's not a thing

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You got any reads you wanna talk about?

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Backup mod(s)

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VOTE: Rathe

That last post is purely self-serving and hasn't led into anything
I feel like if he actually thought scum were pushing him because of inactivity then he would be happy to name names and actually put out some content here

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Who do you scumread and who do you think is scum for focusing on inactives and why is that scummy in their specific case

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Your minimal use of words is making it rather difficult to see your thought process in any detail

What is scummy about 675?

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As an aside, I'm half surprised Mastina hasn't made any comment about this apparent return to my classic playstyle

Mastina, I think your interpretation of Korina's reaction to Noraa's claim is wrong. Korina's reaction there is entirely self consistent

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Your minimal use of words is making it rather difficult to see your thought process in any detail

y what else do u want to know

I want to be able to see evidence of your thought process so that I can determine your alignment

This involves you putting your thoughts in detail in the thread

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We have exceeded the allocated budget for towncred from strange roleclaims and as a result Wheme will have to be placed by play as normal

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No setup spec without flips

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Unless you wanna massclaim

I've always been strangely fascinated by the idea of a day 1 massclaim

But I don't want to do that

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We can be sure we have a bunch of VT-adjacent roles at least, but there might still be some actual town power to balance the 10:3. This does not have to be a very large amount of power if there's some negative utility in the scum, but that negative utility would need to be more substantial than S&M's role. Some variety of traitor would be more likely.

This may also be more of a gestalt setup, where you can only really consider the balance in terms of the bigger picture due to interactions between roles causing much larger effects than the individual pieces

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laying out thoughts can be targeted by mafia

Is this the actual reason that you are not giving us content, or is it an excuse to justify your behaviour?

Note: I expect you to acknowledge this with an answer

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I want you to answer the question because it directs me to the next course of action and prevents you from switching which one of those two it is later on

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its loaded

That's fine though, right? Because my intention is to continue to vote you if you pick the second option, whereas if you pick the first option it opens up the possibility of me convincing you that you should post more

But I can't put in all the time while simply assuming you would pick option 1. I need you to say it, or if there's another option I haven't listed then say that too

It's not a trick question

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Mastina is town here

Also FL pretty clearly claimed SK as a joke

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okay so the reason we like talking a lot is because by encouraging a meta where we all talk a lot it makes it easier for town to figure out who the other towns are and who the scum are with a much higher degree of accuracy than if we all just sat around pointing votes at each other

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If you don't make some effort to try and find the scum we won't know you're doing that and will think you are scum

Your reads will generally improve if they are based on interactions with other people, and through that process other people will also be able to read you. This assists with both of the primary objectives for town dayplay, which are:
1. Find scum.
2. Convince other people that you are town

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Mafia can do both but the game is to find the mafia
We emphasise dayplay here- obviously mafia are going to be careful to some extent however the part of the game we find fun, that we're all sitting around flexing our various levels of skill at, is finding the scum based on tone, deception cues, the votes that they make. Scum know who the other scum are. Lots of things show up in the subtext of posts that aren't intended, and ultimately, 90% of the time that scum are making a post, they are lying. They are pretending to be town that lacks the information that they have. And nobody is perfect at that. So, the game is to find those people.

To do that, we have to engage with each other.

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When I say we emphasise dayplay, I mean we don't rely on power roles for our victories, and we don't just randomly vote around or play popularity contests either. We're actively hunting for scum.

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Superb, who’s scum in your eyes?

Still figuring that out

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Mastina is a bad elim fwiw

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If anyone else votes there I will hold you personally accountable for what happens afterwards

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VOTE: Battle Mage

Definitely not a vanity wagon now lol

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SAM- Subtle/ I use they as not to mess up pronouns as I often do.

Battke- what do you think of Mastina . Do you have a lean for her

Penguin- True however you jumped on the wagon early when it had less steam so it seems to be less optimistic. Also your play have been a lot better then Subtle. Looking back as a whole I have become less and less impressed with Subtle overall play . They seem like they are kinda sakting by . Not as bad as Wheme imho but still skating

What the fuck is the post

I am not skating by I am literally driving the game

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VOTE: TFL

Dunno how anybody paying attention to the game could reach that conclusion tbh

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I’m kind of done with this day :/

I really don’t know who scum is

I keep bouncing back and forth between mastina PP and TFL

Can you vote TFL then

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If TFL seriously cannot see the reasons I am making votes then I don't think TFL is looking for them

The only push or vote I don't think is easily explained is my Battle Mage vote, and we got some satisfactory content after that. Which is kinda the point of that kind of flashwagon.

The reason it doesn't seem so strange to most of us that everyone jumped off the Rathe wagon to form the Battle Mage wagon is because I led a push where myself and a couple of others talked to Rathe, and the discussion and after effects of that felt town indicative. Meanwhile, Battle Mage was a slot that I don't think anybody had any real reason to townread before we wagoned up.

It's a natural move in terms of the flow of the game. I think it's scum-indicative that TFl has completed missed the reasoning and what happened with the push on Rathe and is instead taking the votes out of context there, specifically focuaing only on how people voted a possible LHF slot rather than the group effort to place a low activity slot that culminated in the decision that we did not want to elim Rathe.

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I don't think I'm voting any other wagon today. This is it. TFL is the elim.

They have missed too much subtext that would be evident to someone that was actually scumhunting and trying to place slots would definitely have seen.

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I don't think I'm voting any other wagon today. This is it. TFL is the elim.

They have missed too much subtext that someone that was actually scumhunting and trying to place slots would definitely have seen.

ebwop

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Voting for pressure in order to place is perfectly reasonable and loses that effect to some degree if you say that's what you're doing

You've also focused on the only vote for which my reasoning was unclear. That you've cherrypicked that in order to place me tells me all that I need to know

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Voting for pressure in order to place is perfectly reasonable and loses that effect to some degree if you say that's what you're doing

You've also focused on the only vote for which my reasoning was unclear. That you've cherrypicked that in order to place me tells me all that I need to know

I don’t really have a read yet on TFL and I don’t think Mastina’s the best wagon but I have very strong reasons not to trust certain things you said about my role which I’m currently unable to elaborate on. That could be NAI but I don’t think it’s beyond your scum range to make bad setup spec reads. Wheme auto jumping to my mod confirmed role as scum is even worse. Only thing that doesn’t make sense to me about Mastina is that she’s townlocking two slots who are doubting my role. Also, in the one game I played with you where you were scum, you were extremely active but in all the games you were town, you were a lot more lurky, so tell me why I should trust you here despite your - what read to me as possible attempts to rolefish me - is that fair? Because you are trying to take charge of this game which wouldn’t be a concern for me at all, had you not done anything to make me super paranoid of you.

I really want to have a much more confident read on you but that’s hard when I’m super paranoing on you. So if you’re town here, please help me to see it?

Which things that I said about your role?

I want to reiterate that my questions on your role were NOT a push. However, I believe what you said about it. I think you're town now- I was null on you when I started asking you questions because while you're fairly easy to place there wasn't exactly a lot of content to go on, and as I have said you're easiest to place when someone has pushed you.

I don't think I've done any bad setup spec here, Nancy. The only conclusion I've reached from pure setup spec here is that I said there were probably a bunch of net null VT-esque roles in the game, and I said that before quite a few of the net null VT-esque roles claimed. That is verifiably good setup spec. Inaccurate mechanical stuff is definitely within my scumrange as I've actually cleared myself before as scum under some very specific circumstances, and I don't pretend I never make mistakes as town, so yes- it's explicitly NAI if taken in isolation, but I haven't even done that yet.

I did NOT make a push on you based on your role, and tried to explain that multiple times. The thing is, Nancy, you do have a tendency to make assumptions as you're reading, and you don't challenge them later. You often end up completely misreading a situation. While I did try to correct those assumptions for you, I think you also have a tendency to not listen to people when you disagree with them, or especially when you think they're scum. It does help to place your alignment, which is one of the main reasons I did end up pushing you (so that I could place you. I did not think you were scum.) But I want to clarify now while you're more inclined to read my posts that the mechanics regarding you was not, and was never a push.

Okay but what happens if you vote someone else

I know you're saying you can't but if you were to actually type out a post where you vote someone else and post it then what happens

When I posted this, I was not saying you were lying. I wanted to know what happens if you were to vote someone else.

There's a key mechanical difference here that I would like to establish that is going way over your head

For what it's worth, I haven't once said you're scum or that anything relating to this is scum indicative. This is just mechanics, not a push

I explained this afterwards. But you still continued to believe that I was pushing you on mechanics, so I thought I might as well actually push you on something to see how you react. But you completely missed that, because the only important detail that you could see at the time was that I was pushing you.

The 'expected' implementation of a leashed vote is that the mod sets your vote to the leash target and no longer acknowledges when you try to change it. This is why myself and Wheme both initially asked for you to change your vote to prove it. It's not really a big deal that Krazy has opted for a different implementation which cannot confirm the leash, but I did want to confirm that this was indeed the case. When I was asking about your role there was a reasonable chance from my perspective that you had misunderstood it, so I wanted to clear that up.



Regarding activity, could you tell me which scumgame it was in which I was active? If it was the one where I was a traitor I would note I only managed to keep that up for 1 dayphase. My activity is strongly linked to my motivation to play in a given game, which usually is pretty low if I am scum. Activity is AI for me, but it's not an absolute. I have also started to cut down that motivation in the earlygame in general because my classic style of play tends to lead to my NK on N1. If you want any further analysis then Mastina is the expert on my meta.

[Superb Subtlety]

It is me personal opinion, that in the little time we have available to us we need to compromise and quickly.

I am willing to exile April, Tigger and Wheme. The reasons being "whom?", "By the heavens, stop bouncing!", and "janitor", respectively.

I do not see how a janitor can be a role that is town aligned.

Welcome to the theme queue

Off the top of my head;
Janitor vig
A rolecop that steals role PMs so they don't flip when they die at any later point in the game
A role that janitors itself on flip
A doctor-janitor could be pretty interesting due to the implications of a strongman kill
Any other basic combination of roles where the janitor is neg utility vs a strong town utility- eg Janitor-Watcher
A percentage based role (boooo those suck)
Just a straight up town janitor to exist as the equivalent of a miller to a rolecop
Something that I can't immediately conceive of because I'm thinking in my frame of mind rather than Krazy's

There are many possibilities.

[Superb Subtlety]

Votecount 1.11

mastina(4)

~ April Ludgate, Korina, Rathe, Noraabear

Korina(3)

~ Smoke and Mirrors, mastina, PenguinPower

Battle Mage(2)

~ TheFuzzylogic99

TheFuzzylogic99(2)

~ Superb Subtlety, Whemestar

PenguinPower(2)

~ Battle Mage, Raya36

Not Voting (1)

: Mad Hatters Tea Party

With 13 alive it takes 7 to FLIP.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-03-07 15:12:44)

@mod: Based on previous votecounts I assume the TFL does not have a double vote, however please correct me if this votecount is accurate.

~Fixed

[Superb Subtlety]

How have you missed his soft

[Superb Subtlety]

Who's the king of the jungle

[Superb Subtlety]

Korina is not compulsive; you have misread the post

[Superb Subtlety]

It is possible that scum has a coroner, just as it possible that town has a janitor. This is the theme queue

I townread Korina for his mindset around his claim and the internal consistency of it all
I townread Wheme for his play. His claim is potentially town indicative but we can't give it extra credit when it follows a godfather claim getting locktowned by the more vocal people in the game because scum could potentially want in on that. But Wheme is town on play

[Superb Subtlety]

The path from animal to role PM is not as straightforward as you might think

Koalas are not known for hosting game shows, for example

[Superb Subtlety]

I think I did say I didn't think that was the real prize, actually, which was my kneejerk reaction

If it was indeed a lie that would probably be town indicative though

I later came to the conclusion you probably wouldn't be able to convincingly lie on this as either alignment

[Superb Subtlety]

How am I anywhere close to being scum here. ...... I have been consistently scum hunting all game. If you want to kill me today then fine but its a bad move for town.

Subtle argument for me being scum seems to be that I am misreading them and not paying attention. However these things are always indictive of scum as town can be lazy as well. I have given reasons for my votes andthen explain why. Subtle has not done that at all. They had tunneled Korina for atleast a third of the game with little reason other then they believe she is lying about her role but gave little reason why they believe this, Btw they have given no rationale on why they think my words are intentional and not just me be being lazy or stubborn. The also pushed an easy target in Rathe .

Subtle seems to think they are leading the game but I have little evidence for that. Almost all their action has been them following other players. I believe that either they think they are leading or maybe are trying to be
a leader. They have been stubborn all game and do not seem to listen to other people argument. See her case aginst Korina. I dont know if this is her being town or overagressive scum/ Tis is why I am not going to vote them.

My main argument is that you are not actually looking for things that would indicate scum, and instead are looking for things you can push.

When I say I have been driving the game I mean I've been the one who has coaxed content out of about half the slots in the game, which I have achieved through pushes.

Your argument that I haven't explained my votes at all is completely false and I'm pretty sure contradicts what you said earlier when you said you were only concerned about my Battle Mage vote, which I have now explained and moved off of.



I tunneled korina for at least a third of the game? What? That's news to me. I pushed korina between pages 12 and 14, at which point I decided they were town and moved away from Korina. I have not suspected Korina since. This was the first notable push in the game and I feel it got us out of RVS, which we had not got out at that point because of Koalawang.

The 'Easy target' of Rathe I pushed. . . and then tried to convince to post more and make them easier to place. With some success, I might add. Rathe is likely to be town based on the response to that. Everyone on that wagon shifted to Battle Mage because of that. My pushes up until this one were not being made to get someone to be elimed. They were being made so that I can place whoever I was pushing.



For the record, I am a guy and Alisae uses e/eir. Probably easiest to do they/them but I'm the only one posting at the minute so he/him would be fine too

[Superb Subtlety]

If you were not only scumhunting but also townhunting you wouldn't be cherrypicking shit, a good portion of which is completely false, in order to push me. You would have had an opinion on my slot other than the Battle Mage vote, and you wouldn't accuse me of tunnelling someone when I pushed them for all of 2 pages if you weren't grasping at straws to try and push me with

Helpful tip: straws are not an effective tool for pushing people

[Superb Subtlety]

Raya, why are you against a TFL elim

[Superb Subtlety]

April is a vanity wagon and I feel I've outlined some pretty strong points on TFL here

[Superb Subtlety]

April is a vanity wagon and I feel I've outlined some pretty strong points on TFL here

[Superb Subtlety]

Huh, is something going on with MS making people double post

[Superb Subtlety]

Ah, I only have the forum settings for seconds on my main acc

[Superb Subtlety]

But yeah, I feel that anyone who wants to vote outside of the main 2 wagons here is gonna need to explain why in some amount of detail

I'd also point out that the people on Mastina have been there for a while and I don't think they had very good reasons for being there, so anyone who wants to join that wagon is also gonna have to explain that one in detail.

We have 3 hours and 40 minutes and I am going to be here, refreshing the page all the time

[Superb Subtlety]

But yeah, I feel that anyone who wants to vote outside of the main 2 wagons here is gonna need to explain why in some amount of detail

I'd also point out that the people on Mastina have been there for a while and I don't think they had very good reasons for being there, so anyone who wants to join that wagon is also gonna have to explain that one in detail.

We have 3 hours and 40 minutes and I am going to be here, refreshing the page all the time

[Superb Subtlety]

I'll compromise to Fuzzy if I have to to get an elimination but I think he flips town still. I still scumread mastina but her claim to be potentially confirmable tomorrow makes me want to leave her until then.

I remember Fuzzy stood out to me as someone scumhunting early game when everyone was distracted by Koalawang and the typical early game fluff which gave him an early townread from me. His sorting seemed to be genuine and I'm not really seeing the part about him looking for pushes rather than scum-indicative stuff. An example was the early mastina read where she was acting scummy imo but got a townread from Fuzzy for those same reasons. Fuzzy also disagreed with the Rathe wagon who seemed like lhf to me. If he was scum mastina (assuming they aren't partners) would be a good push for him, especially since he has expressed concern there already.

Yeah, I gave him a pass early game for the same reasons, but his 'scumhunting' hasn't moved past that earlygame commentary. Like, it was good then because there wasn't very much content and thus is was town indicative that he was making points about things when he could have got away with not doing that. It's the more recent stuff that is clearly scum.

He showed up to talk about Rathe as LHF AFTER everyone moved off Rathe and we'd got content out of him. That's not defending Rathe. That's an excuse to push people.

[Superb Subtlety]

3 hours left

[Superb Subtlety]

Where is everyone

[Superb Subtlety]

Oh boy we're in for a fun day

[Superb Subtlety]

We have so many options for things we can do here and in what order

[Superb Subtlety]

I would guess we have completely crippled the scumteam's power

[Superb Subtlety]

It follows, reasonably, that scum would be hesitant to bus a motherfucking scum dayvig unless they thought said dayvig would get a chance to claim first

Congratulations to Korina and Noraa on becoming conftown

[Superb Subtlety]

Honestly there weren't many people on the wagon who thought I was right
I counted it up

[Superb Subtlety]

Raya is an interesting case

I think it would have made more sense for scum!Raya to vote TFL earlier when TFL was there and could claim, so I'm not actually that suspicious there

[Superb Subtlety]

lets just kill everyone off the wagon

we should win lol

I'm not happy to conf everyone that was on the wagon. As I have been saying, scum could comfortably vote their dayvig buddy if they thought TFL would get a claim in

Also you were off the wagon

[Superb Subtlety]

Can we elim BM today?

That would be nice.

Yeah, TFL voted BM then immediately tried to shift to people who he said were suspicious for BM votes

[Superb Subtlety]

BM is definitely a good start but I won't commit to any elims yet

[Superb Subtlety]

There's a few people I'm waiting for rn

I won't name them though

[Superb Subtlety]

I don't think there's much that could be actually hidden tbh

If someone was informed would you find out what their information was?

[Superb Subtlety]

Rathe, Mastina is town
Don't vote Mastina

[Superb Subtlety]

You are more likely than many other players in the game to have protected me and I figured I was the nightkill

Honestly you didn't have to claim

[Superb Subtlety]

But then I also thought you were highly likely to claim in your first post in this day phase, lol

[Superb Subtlety]

Wheme, as much I appreciate that you voted TFL, it doesn't conftown you

You're in my locktown tier but I won't argue that you're basically conftown

[Superb Subtlety]

Wheme, as much I appreciate that you voted TFL, it doesn't conftown you

You're in my locktown tier but I won't argue that you're basically conftown

If you think king busses TFL hard there then that is fine.

I don't think you did bus TFL hard

[Superb Subtlety]

I’m kind of done with this day :/

I really don’t know who scum is

I keep bouncing back and forth between mastina PP and TFL

Can you vote TFL then

VOTE: TFL

That's your contribution to the TFL wagon

I don't want to undersell it because it was the ever-important second vote, but don't oversell it either

[Superb Subtlety]

It's gonna be shit if it's the same game as last time

[Superb Subtlety]

Also mafia is going pretty damn well so far and I'm waiting for people to check in so did you really have to do that now?

[Superb Subtlety]

We shall see if MHTP elaborates

[Superb Subtlety]

Cool but they haven't really said anything yet

[Superb Subtlety]

If MHTP got any results last night they can tell us about them

Otherwise, it's all whatever

[Superb Subtlety]

That's still open to interpretation if you ask me

I'm all about the specifics

[Superb Subtlety]

Doesn't even have to be fake

It could be a literal cop guilty and you could be town

[Superb Subtlety]

Congratulations to Korina and Noraa on becoming conftown

I always was

No you weren't. You were just locktown.

Anyway, what's the wording on your godfather ability? Does it say you

always

investigate as town?

[Superb Subtlety]

Oh before I read and no doubt get distracted again, my ultility is spent and I will fullclaim.

I am a Dormouse; a 1-shot combined loyal neighbouriser and compulsive hider, Smoke and Mirrors was my target last night, I have had no response from my action. My understanding of my role PM is that I will resolve before all other actions.

Neat. You understand nar wrong, as you could still be roleblocked or S&M could be untargetable etc but that is pretty reliable as guilties go

I do not support ending the day until I've spoken to some people though

[Superb Subtlety]

What results did you get then, BM

[Superb Subtlety]

NAR is seriously misunderstood by a lot of people


Nar only comes into play when there is a conflict. A roleblocker roleblocking another role is not a conflict unless that role would prevent the roleblocker from acting

[Superb Subtlety]

Anyone else gonna claim shit? Lol

[Superb Subtlety]

Sorry Nancy, but it's actually a very plausible guilty and I'm still not sure of your alignment here

If you're town, just sit and hope there's an explanation someone is willing to give because nothing else can realistically be done

If nothing changes I can see myself voting you when I've had more time to use the day phase

[Superb Subtlety]

Well, if it was town who interfered with it then that's cool as they will claim it

I'm not one to leave a guilty hanging, though

[Superb Subtlety]

Cool, I'm saying I'll give it some time and everyone else should too

[Superb Subtlety]

Who did you hide on, MHTP?

[Superb Subtlety]

I thought based on the phrasing that the neighbouriser and the hider were different actions

[Superb Subtlety]

Nancy, I'm willing to work with you because I'm leaning town on you by play, but it's a pretty hard guilty and if it stands then you literally cannot be left alive

[Superb Subtlety]

Anyway, yeah, obviously I hard bussed a scum dayvig and then shot myself

[Superb Subtlety]

Wait and see what other people say rather than getting up in arms about it, and if it does come to it then don't take it so personally?

[Superb Subtlety]

It doesn't matter what you say is possible here- we have a scenario that very strongly points to you being scum and you can't influence that scenario.

On the positive side for you, I think it's highly likely that if MHTP was blocked here in some way it was by town rather than scum

A scum roleblocker or similar would have been on Mastina

[Superb Subtlety]

Nancy, do you not think this calm tone I'm taking here is exactly me knowing better? Am I supposed to locktown you so hard that I disregard mechanics entirely?

You've accused me of being scum when I literally got shot by scum after driving through an elim on an extremely powerful scum PR

[Superb Subtlety]

I am explicitly not done for the day

[Superb Subtlety]

If you have an explanation for the lack of hood then you should have outed that some time ago. If not, I dunno what would be worth claiming here

[Superb Subtlety]

Oh, you mean you wouldn't want to out a hypothetical roleblocker; that makes more sense

[Superb Subtlety]

I am not strongly opposed to your elim

That's not the same thing as being anti-town

[Superb Subtlety]

oh, and to whomever imposed the post restriction on me, you have my thanks. As tempting as the negatives were, kudos should be given where it is due.

You got given a post restriction?

[Superb Subtlety]

I am not strongly opposed to your elim

That's not the same thing as being anti-town

genuinely - why are you so reluctant to think Smoke and Mirrors is scum? there's good-faith, and then there's whatever this is....

The thing is, town!Nancy does this. Town!Nancy is extremely self absorbed, assumes everyone she has ever played with should townread her super hard, and does this exact kind of crap. She puts a huge amount of stock in meta and assumes everyone else does- the worst assumption she makes is that she assumes everyone else makes the same assumptions she does.

I don't want to assume Nancy won't move past that eventually as a person. It's reasonable to think she should theoretically be able to play like this as scum on that grounds, but if she hasn't expanded her scumrange in that sense she would be town here.

[Superb Subtlety]

I'm actually feeling pretty good about town!bm here, at present. When certain players show up I'll go find scum

[Superb Subtlety]

No, I already read that iso and came to the conclusion it somewhat lightly pointed at BM but that not much of any use could be gained from TFL

[Superb Subtlety]

One thing I have considered here that you have not is that TFL needed to scumread a good selection of town so he could dayvig someone on day 2, and he may have been going for a BM mislim while setting up to suspect myself and penguin on a townflip so he could shoot one of us and get the towncred of being a dayvig

[Superb Subtlety]

It's not that I am not listening to you. I just disagree with the majority of the things you are saying.

Self voting achieves nothing when I have told you to just wait.

[Superb Subtlety]

When you say things like that I should know you are town-

No, I should not. I have not seen your role PM. I don't rate meta as highly as you do. I am more careful and I do not jump to conclusions like you do.

And there is a mechanical guilty, so I'm gonna wait for more mechanics if there are any, and you should too. Impatience will only cause you more problems.


Thing is, you say things like that all the damn time and I would never stop typing if I responded to every post to try to give you actual insight into my perspective rather than what you think my perspective is like.

[Superb Subtlety]

You should clear korina and noraa

They did not need to make those votes considering the amount of deadline left, and they could have made the votes in a way that allowed TFL to claim


PEdit: nah that's not a thing, Mastina

[Superb Subtlety]

Any other mechanical stuff worth mentioning, Raya?

[Superb Subtlety]

Did you get anything worth mentioning last night, Rathe?

[Superb Subtlety]

I don't want to rule out something like an alien or something that would prevent Nancy being targeted

Although if anything happened that could rule that out that would be very helpful for narrowing this down

[Superb Subtlety]

How are you doing, Penguin

[Superb Subtlety]

Are you looking for another assistant IC or did you only need one?

[Superb Subtlety]

I'm not particularly interested being your assistant myself; just thought I'd be friendly and ask

That being said;

A crumb is where you hide something in your posts, whether that be for particularly astute players to catch, or even for a specific player who might recognise it and understand something from it. Ultimately, however, a crumb is pretty much pointless if it is not something that could be visible to someone and lead them to the correct conclusion, like following a trail of breadcrumbs.

It can also be helpful to crumb results that will become apparent when people look for them following your death.

[Superb Subtlety]

Like, I think crumbs like Korina's one are pretty pointless tbh. If it was a fakeclaim and scum!korina had decided against it, then nobody would have seen it. (Disclaimer: Korina probably isn't fakeclaiming)

Otherwise, I do like crumbs where it's possible to catch them. I think I can sometimes be very good at catching them. In terms of putting them out, though, I'm more of a softs kind of person, where I will soft excessively to build hype before claiming my full role and not really crumb at all.

[Superb Subtlety]

You know, the username for this account came from a sort of crumb

[Superb Subtlety]

I welcome any more info you might be able to give, Nancy

While we can't necessarily believe it at face value, if you're town then any info might bring us closer to the truth

oops

[Superb Subtlety]

I might believe it

[Superb Subtlety]

Does it explain the guilty or is it something else?

[Superb Subtlety]

Why don't you say it anyway if it's the truth though

I am looking for a convenient truth