Mini Theme 2217 | Owner's market blitz | Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup nerds and Alisae

HEAL: Kyouko

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe next time you won't be

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Anyone seriously considering running for MO should abstain from bidding until they know whether they will win MO or not as it will probably draw the NK

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cop is definitely worth 301+ as it forces scum to lower their cash below 500. Bidding 300 can result in a tie with a scum that also bid 300, which would leave scum with 500 if they win the randomized tie, that they could still use to tie a full-wallet townie and potentially takeaway 2 good town roles.

This point was brought up in the previous iteration linked in the signups thread:

The role of the MO is not so much to determine

which

roles will show up, but in

what order

they will appear. For example, ideally the tracker/watcher roles will appear before Ninja appears, and Cop before Godfather. Since there are 20 roles and 16 will appear throughout the course of 4 Days, we can only avoid 4 of them, and on N3 when there are 8 roles left there is only a 20% chance of avoiding all 4 of those roles that the MO does not ENHANCE. Factor in chances of those roles appearing on prior nights and it's even less likely we can avoid all 4. The good news is that ORDER MATTERS for most of these roles. Godfather is useless to scum once the cop has blown their load, so whoever gets Cop, if you think the MO is town, you can probably afford to save it for one night as it's unlikely that specifically Godfather will appear tomorrow out of 16 roles.

We're already quite lucky to have gotten cop this early as it's our only counterable investigative (and the counter is not available yet) so scum will have to outbid town on 3 different roles to stop investigations, which is enough to free up other strong town roles such as 2x doctor for us.

Probably the only other thing I have to say about the setup right now is that scum WILL most likely outbid us on dayvig so whoever gets MO should withhold that role, as tempting as it might be to have it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cop is definitely worth 301+ as it forces scum to lower their cash below 500. Bidding 300 can result in a tie with a scum that also bid 300, which would leave scum with 500 if they win the randomized tie, that they could still use to tie a full-wallet townie and potentially takeaway 2 good town roles.

It's not a randomized tie.
Whoever bids 300 on it first has a 300 bid, and then to outbid that person another person must bid higher than 300 to win the item. If 2 people bid 300 on an item, the first player to bid 300 on the item will win it.

I think you may be assuming based on prior iterations, let me double check the op

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wow I literally signed up for alisae, played with em back when I first joined the site, ngl I'm disappointed in that replace

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ah my bad, I got mixed up, to be clear, auctions arent randomized, alisae was right, you must outbid the current highest bidder, only the MO is randomized in the event of a tie.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now my problem is last time I played a game with a weird mechanic like this, I tried to lightningrod the bad for town roles and got my ass firmly handed to me

By lightning rod do you mean you tried to obtain the roles or you tried to get targeted by them? And what do you mean by got your ass firmly handed to you? You got miselimmed, endgamed, or what?

Have you learned something from that experience you think might not be intuitive in this setup?

HEAL: Flea

You lose my support!

Can you explain why you healed Alisae in the first place and then how you chose who to switch to? With most everyone else self-healing, it stands out as unusual to me. Scum want to control the market so this looks to me like healing alisae for such a brief time is a cover for getting your heal onto another player without drawing suspicion later on a scum!Flea flip

VOTE: VFP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now my problem is last time I played a game with a weird mechanic like this, I tried to lightningrod the bad for town roles and got my ass firmly handed to me

By lightning rod do you mean you tried to obtain the roles or you tried to get targeted by them? And what do you mean by got your ass firmly handed to you? You got miselimmed, endgamed, or what?

Have you learned something from that experience you think might not be intuitive in this setup?

HEAL: Flea

You lose my support!

Can you explain why you healed Alisae in the first place and then how you chose who to switch to? With most everyone else self-healing, it stands out as unusual to me. Scum want to control the market so this looks to me like healing alisae for such a brief time is a cover for getting your heal onto another player without drawing suspicion later on a scum!Flea flip

VOTE: VFP

why does that make you vote vfp over flea?

VFP is the one with the perceived agenda

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cop is definitely worth 301+ as it forces scum to lower their cash below 500. Bidding 300 can result in a tie with a scum that also bid 300, which would leave scum with 500 if they win the randomized tie, that they could still use to tie a full-wallet townie and potentially takeaway 2 good town roles.

This point was brought up in the previous iteration linked in the signups thread:

The role of the MO is not so much to determine

which

roles will show up, but in

what order

they will appear. For example, ideally the tracker/watcher roles will appear before Ninja appears, and Cop before Godfather. Since there are 20 roles and 16 will appear throughout the course of 4 Days, we can only avoid 4 of them, and on N3 when there are 8 roles left there is only a 20% chance of avoiding all 4 of those roles that the MO does not ENHANCE. Factor in chances of those roles appearing on prior nights and it's even less likely we can avoid all 4. The good news is that ORDER MATTERS for most of these roles. Godfather is useless to scum once the cop has blown their load, so whoever gets Cop, if you think the MO is town, you can probably afford to save it for one night as it's unlikely that specifically Godfather will appear tomorrow out of 16 roles.

We're already quite lucky to have gotten cop this early as it's our only counterable investigative (and the counter is not available yet) so scum will have to outbid town on 3 different roles to stop investigations, which is enough to free up other strong town roles such as 2x doctor for us.

Probably the only other thing I have to say about the setup right now is that scum WILL most likely outbid us on dayvig so whoever gets MO should withhold that role, as tempting as it might be to have it

I’m a bit surprised to say this but you seem rational enough to be a decent MO

Believe it or not I faked that guilty with a completely level head, but people didnt use the info properly in LyLo as they were understandably disgusted by my play. I didn't account for that when considering the upside of me eating the rope that day. I thought it was a win-win regardless of who got flipped but it didnt work out that way

[ssbm_Kyouko]

On the powers: these all seem like pretty good powers for us to have or to keep out of scum hands. We can't block them since they have more cash. I think the best way to make sure they pay enough for them is if we all bid for exactly 1, bidding at least 401 for it, but randomly choosing which one to bid for (as in flip a coin twice, or use a 1-4 RNG). With 10 town players, that means there'd be a (3/4)^10 = 6% chance that no one bid for a particular power. So scum won't get any easy picks - if they want one they'll have to bid at least 402 for it, meaning we can outbid that player in future days.

I think that approach makes more sense than bidding for the one we individually decide is most important which could leave others 'easy pickings' for scum.

Numerically a good approach on days when all the powers are strong but hitman does not warrant 400 for a takeaway if the winning townie will live the day. This reminds me, under no circumstances (except extenuating deadline ones) should we hammer before claims in this game, even D1, as if a townie is going to be misexecuted, and they feel certain of it, they can potentially spend 500 on a scum role (today that is hitman) before they are hammered if they have not bid on anything yet.

It's also worth pointing out that based on the midday flip it appears that a single townie already bid their 500 dogebux by evenly spreading them amongst the 4 roles so our probability here is likely 8% rather than 6%, and that's only if all town follow the strat.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

On the powers: these all seem like pretty good powers for us to have or to keep out of scum hands. We can't block them since they have more cash. I think the best way to make sure they pay enough for them is if we all bid for exactly 1, bidding at least 401 for it, but randomly choosing which one to bid for (as in flip a coin twice, or use a 1-4 RNG). With 10 town players, that means there'd be a (3/4)^10 = 6% chance that no one bid for a particular power. So scum won't get any easy picks - if they want one they'll have to bid at least 402 for it, meaning we can outbid that player in future days.
I think that approach makes more sense than bidding for the one we individually decide is most important which could leave others 'easy pickings' for scum.

Why did you decide to include Hitman amongst the roles we should roll for?

Actually I think 7 pages in we've got a pretty solid gamestate. Reads are being developed, and we've got equal amounts of generic vs mechanical discussion going.

I've been on a bit of a high from how MO is going and thinking about the setup strategy but game is kinda stagnant otherwise actually and the pink cloud is fading. Got any juicy scumreads? (I don't think MO candidates should discuss TRs today as it may influence scum to vote an MO that could be more likely to designate a scum replacement)

i think flea the magicians town, i would want to vote them as market owner but 52 seems like they wouldn't be confident enough with that ability.

i dont like distance and mistyx so far, but i dont really have anything i can put into words on them yet. i think for distance what stands out is 76 77 78..? not sure why but those feel weird

im a bit wary of ssbm_kyouko (for like no reason other then paranoia)

but 108 makes them feel more likely to be town.

i wanted to have feelings on gamma emerald, but i dont really have anything for them sadly ;-; 109 is something ill keep in mind tho

so i think ssbm_kyouko is who i would currently consider best as market owner, but im unsure

VOTE: distance

Marci, what part of 108 made me feel more likely town? Meant to ask this before bed but forgot. The post was split into two parts I considered separating into a double post and ofc someone replies and I can't tell which part they're addressing :/

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hitman only modifies the scum's factional kill so it ignores abilities that would stop it such as doctor or bulletproof protection

[ssbm_Kyouko]

On the powers: these all seem like pretty good powers for us to have or to keep out of scum hands. We can't block them since they have more cash. I think the best way to make sure they pay enough for them is if we all bid for exactly 1, bidding at least 401 for it, but randomly choosing which one to bid for (as in flip a coin twice, or use a 1-4 RNG). With 10 town players, that means there'd be a (3/4)^10 = 6% chance that no one bid for a particular power. So scum won't get any easy picks - if they want one they'll have to bid at least 402 for it, meaning we can outbid that player in future days.

I think that approach makes more sense than bidding for the one we individually decide is most important which could leave others 'easy pickings' for scum.

Numerically a good approach on days when all the powers are strong but hitman does not warrant 400 for a takeaway if the winning townie will live the day. This reminds me, under no circumstances (except extenuating deadline ones) should we hammer before claims in this game, even D1, as if a townie is going to be misexecuted, and they feel certain of it, they can potentially spend 500 on a scum role (today that is hitman) before they are hammered if they have not bid on anything yet.

It's also worth pointing out that based on the midday flip it appears that a single townie already bid their 500 dogebux by evenly spreading them amongst the 4 roles so our probability here is likely 8% rather than 6%, and that's only if all town follow the strat.

Two things:

First, the risk with designating a scum role as 'for the person who's about to be convicted to bid on' is:
- other townies don't bid on it, the convicted person gets quick-hammered, and scum get the role for cheap
- other townies don't bid on it, the convicted person is scum, and other scum get the role for cheap

Second, I agree it's reasonable to assume it was a single person who bid 125 on all four roles... but why do you assume they must be townie?

First:
-Any quickhammers outside of extenuating deadline circumstances in this game are mechanically incorrect and should be treated as a scumclaim
- I hadn't considered this, I do think this is a valid point. It also occurs to me that caught scum can quickhammer themselves if town are withholding bids so we should not ever vote someone to E1. Instead, at E2 we should

intent to E1

and wait for another player to intent to hammer, and try to give time.for everyone to post so that it can be assumed they have had time to bid

Second: I thought it was the simplest assumption, but now that you question it I think it makes more sense for it to be 1-3 scum posing as town (likely 1). By quarter-bidding all 4 slots they would be able to test if any town were currently outbidding them for anything at midday. The one scum would not have enough left (300) to 500 outbid for cop and doctor, but if they split the 125 votes amongst 2 players it is damning to an auction detective
later on. The reason to split he bids is then both players have 550 left and can outbid the other roles while still potentially getting the cheaper ones.

I'll say this now to everyone: if you bid exactly 125 on ONE OR MORE, but NOT ALL of the roles before midday today, you should confirm you did that in your next post after reading this, or it should be treated as a hard guilty by the auction detective later on. It is already highly suspect to have bid exactly 125 on anything at this stage.

If you do confirm it there is no need to identify which role(s) you bid on or how many role(s) you bid on.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And I didnt suggest it because I intend to bid on one or both of the scum powers if I get MO which I think is likely. I would have suggested it if I thought I was not going to get MO, and have already hinted at it previously when i said MO candidates should abstain from bidding today

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I want to see where people side on this as we're stalled out anyways and dont have long for Day phase

VOTE: Imaginality

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Acutally, I'm going to follow up and VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko for post #179. Between that possible scum slip, and the downplaying of hitman... on which note, also if ssbm_Kyouko expects MO to draw the NK (per post #31) why didn't he suggest MO bid for scum powers like hitman instead of no-bid? I feel like he's scum hoping to pick up hitman for cheap.


And HEAL: imaginality

Btw "downplaying hitman" is echoing VFP in a not-so-transparent attempt to turn him on me as I voted him earlier

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And look at what else is sus - midday hits. 125 each is apparently scum trying to gauge where town is bidding. It may even be that if cyrus is town they just withheld all bets, which explains why nothing was hidden at midDay.

5 hours after what is apparently scum trying to gauge where the town is bidding (whether Cyrus is scum or not, tbh he is the only player in the lobby I would say the 125 split is NAI for with confidence). They see nobody is bidding high yet. 5 hours later, in comes Imaginality to lead town toward spending 400 on all roles. Imagine scum dont bid on anything toDay. Town spends 1600, loses 500, or 100 and a purchased role, then in the likely situation that they avoid hitting the doctor target and get a kill, that's another 500 down. We go into D2 8:3 and scum still have the wallet to outbid us on auction detective, and potentially pick up scum roles on the cheap from townies that are down to 100.

Where was this strategy before midday? We were already very deep into mechanical discussion when he made his previous post, so why not bring it up before midDay?

While his suggestion is appealing at first, even to me, from a numbers standpoint, I think what they are doing is baiting town into spending a lot of their money so that in later days scum can outbid.

The next bit gets tinfoil, but I would not be surprised to find out flea is the scum's preferred MO candidate and see that Imaginality eventually concedes and switches his vote there as I'm currently leading. Whether his means flea is scum or one of the scum has a friendly relationship with Flea that may lead Flea to elect that scum as a replacement, I do not know.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw "downplaying hitman" is echoing VFP in a not-so-transparent attempt to turn him on me as I voted him earlier

o-o what were u gonna do if he turned on u..?

It would depend on how he goes about it. We'll see what I do if he does I suppose.

And look at what else is sus - midday hits. 125 each is apparently scum trying to gauge where town is bidding. It may even be that if cyrus is town they just withheld all bets, which explains why nothing was hidden at midDay.

huh.. the numbers are starting to make me confused now "125 each is apparently scum trying to gauge where town is bidding" wdym? howd u get this?

At first I thought it was town, 125 x 4 = 500, the total that town has. That was the initial, simplest conclusion I drew. However Imaginality questioned me on it, wondering why I thought it indicated town rather than scum, and I hadn't entertained that possibility yet since it looks so apparently town.

When I did consider that it could be scum, it changed things for me. I realized that if 1 scum did this it would appear towny to an auction detective, and if 2 scum did it by separating the bids, all 3 of them would still have enough left to outbid a maximum town bid of 500.

I think I was wrong though. Scum could just as easily all agree not to place any bids, to see what town bids before committing any funds. The important thing here is the timing at which the 401 strat was announced. It's very convenient if Imaginality is town, and if he is scum it drives our wallets low enough we can easily be outbid later.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@mod

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to convict someone for tax evasion, day 1 ends in 1 day, 13 hours, 20 minutes

Is Gamma correct in that Day phase will not end when someone is convicted of tax evasion? Will all Days that have Auctions last until deadline? I re-skimmed the OP and it seems unclear

[ssbm_Kyouko]

To be clear, we should still not have quickhammers if Gamma is right,
as we should give townie players a chance to dump their bid onto a scum role and take it to the grave. Yes this still gives scum the chance to do the same to a town role, but there are less of them than us, and there are more good town roles than good scum ones iirc.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm seeing a lot of shade to the Cyrus slot that's very subtle. Did I miss something?

Not gonna lie, 125 for each slot definitely crossed my mind so I'm very intrigued that your instinct on 125 bid for ALL roles is that it is scum indicative, Kyouko.

This is somewhat covered in my response to Marci, but if you reread me, you will see that my

instinct

is that 125 all indicates town. It was my conclusion after reconsideration, when prompted by Imaginality, that it indicates scum manipulation, but scum could have more easily just withheld all bids to see what was being bid on. That's why they didnt hide anything at midday.

Occams says scum didnt bid anything before midday I think.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

trying to gauge where town is bidding" wdym? howd u get this?

Oh I dont know if I directly explained this in my reply, what I mean is, by bidding low, scum will see at midday if anyone had outbid them so far. If anything showed 125 or 0, depending on cyrus's alignment, scum would know they are either winning the bid so far, or that nobody else was bidding. If something showed up greater than 125 or greater than 0, again depending on cyrus's alignment, scum would know where town is currently bidding.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@mod

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to convict someone for tax evasion, day 1 ends in 1 day, 13 hours, 20 minutes

Is Gamma correct in that Day phase will not end when someone is convicted of tax evasion? Will all Days that have Auctions last until deadline? I re-skimmed the OP and it seems unclear

hmm oops

it appears i messed up, gtg now, but the game is supposed to use plurality, given that we're early in the game we're switching to that system, sorry for any inconviniences

Is plurality only evaluated at deadline, or if majority is reached, does the day end before deadline would expire?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I like reading Misty's posts at surface level but when I think about them I understand nothing

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You may have been, the auction is only published at mid-day once - it wont be updated with current bids until its over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

look i did it and now scum is going let me win all 4 and kill me at night.

Cyrus, who

actually

made those bids doesn't make a difference to my point that

ssbm stating with certainty that town did it

(before you started hinting it was you) is suspicious.

Are you sure the bolded is your actual interpretation of my post (snipped below)?

It's also worth pointing out that based on the midday flip it appears that a single townie already bid their 500 dogebux by evenly spreading them amongst the 4 roles so our probability here is likely 8% rather than 6%, and that's only if all town follow the strat.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

you seem so focused on imaginality, are u confident about ur read on them?

Jury's still out but I dont think their push is in good faith so I'm trying to understand that rn

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll be VLA tomorrow for Father's day but with the pace I should be able to keep up, and I'll definitely be around to bid before auction ends

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK, so I haven't actually voted or pushed based on activity, I generally find activity to be NAI and I like to encourage people to participate.

Show your working for me? Because I am not seeing what you're seeing at all.

basically imagnality started saying i was sus for stateing like i was trying to get town cred for saying i was the one who bided on everything only after . ssbm said i looked like town.

but before that he was trying to say i was bad for saying i blow my money already. it cant be both ways. either he isnt reading his own post or hes just making bad pushes

.

Are you talking about me or Imaginality here when you say "he"?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i feel like there would be more resistance to kyo mo though

Why do you think this? What does a lack of resistance to me as MO say to you?

Personally I think theres been a lot of resistance to it, whether direct or indirect, and enough players have resisted it can't all be from scum. That's a good thing for later though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Acutally, I'm going to follow up and VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko for post #179. Between that possible scum slip, and the downplaying of hitman... on which note, also if ssbm_Kyouko expects MO to draw the NK (per post #31) why didn't he suggest MO bid for scum powers like hitman instead of no-bid? I feel like he's scum hoping to pick up hitman for cheap.


And HEAL: imaginality

This is awful. This is absolutely awful given your own posting. You're showing awareness of the game mechanics while trying to lead town down a bad road.

What is the bad road you refer to?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It wasn't a gendering thing, it just didnt read clearly since it comes right after my name

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've waited long enough and nobody else noticed that Imaginality directed his response to

Marci's

question about my scumslip at

Misty

. I think generally scum are aware of their partners and despite the similarities in the names if Imaginality flips red they should both be treated as town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm back now, will be awake until deadline.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

.-.

I think Mastina’s town and she voted Flea and I tr Flea more but Kyyuko seems to really have a handle on it so I don’t know. It doesn’t help that I haven’t gotten an opinion from Pooky on this and probably won’t before deadline.

What makes you say mastina is town? I got bad vibes off the bat but realized it could just be stylistic. I tried to find games of hers to look at but most of her ego is not games she's played in. Found one town game way toward the bottom and saw she posts like this as town so it's a big null for me right now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i think distance being confrontational out of the gate is >rand town

VOTE: VFP
HEAL: Mistyx

idk what the current vc is but this is where im leaning

i dont think VFP has really done anything towny and didnt like their handling of gamma post rep in

I didn’t really reflect on this much, but I do think there might be something to the fact his vibe is almost completely different in how he interacts with me here vs. his interactions with me in mini 2213
He was way more jovial and sociable in that game, here he feels stilted
Not calling him definitely scum because I’m pretty sure he tries reading me like this in that game and missed the mark but knowing him I think the mood change isn’t a good sign

Can you expand on the mood change? Something feels wrong about the Kitty wagon to me and I do still think VFP's MO choice was suspect. If you and I vote VFP it ties them at 3-3 I think, and I feel like Kitty is a bit of a compromise for most. I know I'd be alright with Kitty as the content is just not there but it feels too much like a policy elim and I think we can do better today.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Going to review 2213, obviously I was wrong about him there :/

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Toppity top

[ssbm_Kyouko]

unofficial vc 1.7.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (4) - Distance, Smoke and Mirrors, Imaginality, Gamma Emerald
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (1) KittyTacky,
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (0)
Flea The Magician (0)
Mistyx (0)
cyrus62 (1) Flea The Magician
imaginality (2) ssbm_Kyouko ; Cyrus62
marcistar (0)
Distance (1) Marcistar
VFP (1) Mistyx

not voting (5) - Everyone else

day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-06-21 02:12:49)

Marketplace owner

Gamma Emerald (0)
KittyTacky (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (2) - Cupcake Butterfly ; Imaginality
ssbm_Kyouko (5) ssbm_Kyouko ; distance ; Gamma Emerald ; Smoke and Mirrors ; Marcistar
Flea The Magician (3) - Flea The Magician ; VFP ; Mastina
Mistyx (1) - Mistyx
cyrus62 (0)
imaginality (0)
marcistar (0)
Distance (0)
VFP (1) - Cyrus62

I did this on mobile but I think it is correct

[ssbm_Kyouko]

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^I sniped this VC so my vote is on VFP now not Imaginality

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh nm I think I was looking at VFP's tally in MO not in VC

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cyrus what's on your mind this close to deadline?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What makes you say that? Btw would you be willing to put your heal back on me? It's a close race rn and I suspect people are around preparing to flash the MO onto someone else

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Anyways Cyrus does not seem to be here to vote, scumhunt, or heal, so I think he is here to bid. If this is the case he either lied about having bid 125 on all 4 slots, or is scum who has more than 500 to spend


Another case cracked by bdsm_ultimate_detective

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also 420

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now that the bids are closed I am hard claiming that I bid 426 on hitman. If town wins the doctor role, they may do with this information as they see fit.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

125+300 is 425. I think cyrus is here as scum to buy something for 425

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I considered budding 500 but if I live this gives me a chance at sniping something later

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And imo 500 gives me no greater a chance of outbidding scum than 426

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Reminder to the cop that you can hold your shot tonight as godfather will not be appearing tomorrow unless were very unlucky

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Thanks for the unlock boss.

I enhanced 1-shot BP and the three 2-shots that were rolled. I did not enhance the 1-shot AD, was going to enhance that for tomorrow's auction

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's very likely that kittytacky dumped their wallet onto cop once they were set to die, this is why I brought in gravedigger, so we could potentially catch a fake cop claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The threat of a fake cop getting caught by gravedigger should be enough to deter scum from trying it though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Does redacted mean it was over 500?

Scum has 2 factional abilities in this game. One is the night kill, the other allows them to hide the price of an item once per day, either at midday or at end of day

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So did you pick all 4 options, SSBM?

I tried to include BP for myself if I lived (unlikely I'd get it), but it was mostly meant to be for my replacement, in the event that scum had won the doctor bid (after seeing I won hitman I felt the most likely situation if I were to die last night would be that scum had stolen doc)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I get to enhance 4 roles which makes them 400% more likely (I think this means 5x as likely but the setup may be worded incorrectly) to appear. I enhanced the 1-shot BP and also enhanced the 3 2-shot roles that appeared today. The 1-shot AD came in with it's normal chance, but I wanted it for tomorrow because it only.gives the most recent day of history. Both ADs the same day means unless the winner holds on to a shot they'll be looking at who bought the other AD potentially which is a but of a waste imo. Thought they'd be better staggered because then the second shot would line up with the 1-shot and we'd have 2 detectives looking at toMorrows bids when the player pool is reduced more

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i should be obvtown after that flip

i feel like there would be more resistance to kyo mo though

What did you mean by 286?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think S&M hydra is probably confirmed town now right?

I was actually curious if anyone has seen Nancy Drew bus before, wanted to take a look at that possibility (I think that was all the Nancy Drew head)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I had a sneaking suspicion Noraa was bussing in my last game with her, and she turned out to be town. I have the same sneaking suspicion here, though I was more confident in Noraa town than I am in this hydra at present.

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

I thought Flea bid on cop?

I didn't get this impression, but it seems like there are several references to Flea bidding on cop as I was catching up. Did fae crumb it or something and I didn't notice?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You surmised a reality that Kitty was town, how does their scumflip affect your reads?

125+300 is 425. I think cyrus is here as scum to buy something for 425

I'm failing to see the leap of logic where Cyrus bids 425, did you mention it in a previous post?

Thanks for the unlock boss.

I enhanced 1-shot BP and the three 2-shots that were rolled. I did not enhance the 1-shot AD, was going to enhance that for tomorrow's auction

Were there any roles you weren't going to entertain boosting at all?

1. My assessment of the situation yesterday was that scum was taking advantage of plurality and the eminent deadline to squeeze through a lynch on a lurking townie that would give no info to town. Because of that I was interested in eliminating just about anyone else, and when I saw Misty, who I was lightly townleaning, vote VFP, a player I was scumleaning so close to deadline, I saw opportunity. I tried to get Gamma onto VFP and luckily he did not swap as Kitty ended up being scum. My reads on the players on the wagon are similar to yours, mastina's, VFP's: I think most likely they are all town. There is potential one player on the wagon was bussing, but I am not convinced and if there is a busser there, it is not Distance. To be clear I am not trying to say you mastina and VFP all feel exactly the same as I do re: that wagon, just that I think my thoughts on it are similar to yours.

2. Cyrus admitted to bidding 125 on each of the 4 roles, and the midday auction provided evidence to corroborate that. I was suspicious as to why he was hanging around so close to deadline when he seemed to not be invested in changing the current MO or Elim wagons. The only reason left to be around at deadline, imo, was to bid at the deadline. However, Cyrus' money should have already been spent if he were town. This lead me to believe he could plausibly be scum waiting to spend his remaining 300 dogecoin on increasing one of his bids. 125+300 =425, so to outbid scum!cyrus I had to spend 426. I went back and forth trying to decide whether to buy roleblock or hitman and decided that if I could get hitman it would be best. It would force scum to deal with the doctor WIFOM or to outbid town on doctor which is a big cash sink for them. This is why I claimed for the doctor my exact bid so they would have the info necessary to decide if they wanted to doc me or protect me via wifom and either save a shot last night, or doc someone else. I also felt that by buying hitman it would increase the value of the doctor and the BP I Enhanced for my successor. Unfortunately BP is the one role I enhanced that did not make it, but it turned out to not matter because I am still alive.

3. off the top of my head, dayvig, hitman, godfather, ninja. Dont remember the other scum roles if there are any. I initially was going to send in 2-shot tracker instead of 2-shot gravedigger but again thought gravedigger would be very helpful for sorting out potential fakeclaims in the upcoming days.

If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this.

VOTE: VFP

HEAL: Smoke and Mirrors

I believe MO is permanent once it has been decided D1 or?

You must've had an instinct to place Marci and Cyrus as town, if not a VFP/Me team. How?

MO is permanent until I die but I can name my replacement in my PT at any point up until my death, so if people want to express support for my successor I will take it into consideration. No promises I'll change it though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh nice that was a pagetop. I'll be back in about an hour for any followups. I meant to note in my last post re: the red flip that Flea's flip I think was more helpful than Kitty tbh. I was convinced fae was either scum or the scum-driven candidate but after fae died last night I can put that ghost to rest rather than wasting time chasing it around in my head.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

3. off the top of my head, dayvig, hitman, godfather, ninja. Dont remember the other scum roles if there are any. I initially was going to send in 2-shot tracker instead of 2-shot gravedigger but again thought gravedigger would be very helpful for sorting out potential fakeclaims in the upcoming days.

And decided watcher over tracker because a watcher can keep an eye on the MO and see if any kills come their way - a way for me to be "protected" even if I can't afford to buy BP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Vfp is e-1 btw:

Cyrus, mastina, s&m, distance, marci, by my count

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not sure if a majority before deadline results in elim or if it's only plurality st deadline

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Vfp is e-1 btw:

Cyrus, mastina, s&m, distance, marci, by my count

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You tried to stop the Kitty wagon and are not interested in voting VFP today. Interesting.

UNVOTE:

Since he’s at E-1 I’m going to wait a bit. I’m not really a fan of Kyuku trying to stop the Kitty wagon and seemingly suddenly having no interest in voting VFP today.

Well I certainly had no interest in quick hammering him, you're right about that. I have not expressed any disinterest in voting VFP today though. What do you think about

why

I was trying to stop the kitty wagon yesterDay? You seem to be ignoring/not addressing the why - have you seen it?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

Oh nm I think I was looking at VFP's tally in MO not in VC

I think S&M hydra is probably confirmed town now right?

I was actually curious if anyone has seen Nancy Drew bus before, wanted to take a look at that possibility (I think that was all the Nancy Drew head)

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I had a sneaking suspicion Noraa was bussing in my last game with her, and she turned out to be town. I have the same sneaking suspicion here, though I was more confident in Noraa town than I am in this hydra at present.

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

I thought Flea bid on cop?

I didn't get this impression, but it seems like there are several references to Flea bidding on cop as I was catching up. Did fae crumb it or something and I didn't notice?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You surmised a reality that Kitty was town, how does their scumflip affect your reads?

125+300 is 425. I think cyrus is here as scum to buy something for 425

I'm failing to see the leap of logic where Cyrus bids 425, did you mention it in a previous post?

Thanks for the unlock boss.

I enhanced 1-shot BP and the three 2-shots that were rolled. I did not enhance the 1-shot AD, was going to enhance that for tomorrow's auction

Were there any roles you weren't going to entertain boosting at all?

1. My assessment of the situation yesterday was that scum was taking advantage of plurality and the eminent deadline to squeeze through a lynch on a lurking townie that would give no info to town. Because of that I was interested in eliminating just about anyone else, and when I saw Misty, who I was lightly townleaning, vote VFP, a player I was scumleaning so close to deadline, I saw opportunity. I tried to get Gamma onto VFP and luckily he did not swap as Kitty ended up being scum. My reads on the players on the wagon are similar to yours, mastina's, VFP's: I think most likely they are all town. There is potential one player on the wagon was bussing, but I am not convinced and if there is a busser there, it is not Distance. To be clear I am not trying to say you mastina and VFP all feel exactly the same as I do re: that wagon, just that I think my thoughts on it are similar to yours.

2. Cyrus admitted to bidding 125 on each of the 4 roles, and the midday auction provided evidence to corroborate that. I was suspicious as to why he was hanging around so close to deadline when he seemed to not be invested in changing the current MO or Elim wagons. The only reason left to be around at deadline, imo, was to bid at the deadline. However, Cyrus' money should have already been spent if he were town. This lead me to believe he could plausibly be scum waiting to spend his remaining 300 dogecoin on increasing one of his bids. 125+300 =425, so to outbid scum!cyrus I had to spend 426. I went back and forth trying to decide whether to buy roleblock or hitman and decided that if I could get hitman it would be best. It would force scum to deal with the doctor WIFOM or to outbid town on doctor which is a big cash sink for them. This is why I claimed for the doctor my exact bid so they would have the info necessary to decide if they wanted to doc me or protect me via wifom and either save a shot last night, or doc someone else. I also felt that by buying hitman it would increase the value of the doctor and the BP I Enhanced for my successor. Unfortunately BP is the one role I enhanced that did not make it, but it turned out to not matter because I am still alive.

3. off the top of my head, dayvig, hitman, godfather, ninja. Dont remember the other scum roles if there are any. I initially was going to send in 2-shot tracker instead of 2-shot gravedigger but again thought gravedigger would be very helpful for sorting out potential fakeclaims in the upcoming days.

If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this.

VOTE: VFP

HEAL: Smoke and Mirrors

I believe MO is permanent once it has been decided D1 or?

You must've had an instinct to place Marci and Cyrus as town, if not a VFP/Me team. How?

MO is permanent until I die but I can name my replacement in my PT at any point up until my death, so if people want to express support for my successor I will take it into consideration. No promises I'll change it though.

I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I actually caught scum and you tried to save them.

Consider my point of view. From where I'm standing it looks like someone bussed Kitty. Before the flip it looked like he was an easy mislim being pushed through close to deadline. Fmpov, anyone besides Kitty had a greater chance than kitty of being scum, because of how easily the wagon went through. I didnt disagree his iso looked scummy and his disappearing after claiming to have time was definitely a red flag, but life happens sometimes.

When I read your post I think "I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I bussed my partner so I deserve towncred, and you had a bad read on the gamestate so now I'll be using that towncred to shade you"

Could the team actually be Kitty/VFP/Kyuku?

Or is VFP a miselim?

Fascinating that Kyuku completely lost her sr on VFP today and shaded me for catching scum.

Once again you're leaping to the conclusion that because I didnt immediately hammer VFP that I no longer scumread them. I think at this point it's become apparent that VFP is a mislim. The sad part is if you're town and VFP is scum your actions toDay have made me less inclined to vote VFP.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance, I think they just double bussed though. Triple ISO them with kitty. It seems to me the plan was to steal cop with the dead scum's wallet and save the rest of the money for later auctions when a town MO can no longer "guarantee" that no scum roles make it in. The fewer roles that remain, the less powerful the MO Enhancement becomes and the more likely a random role that benefits scum will slip in. By double bussing d1 they can ride out the game until a good scum power slips through

VOTE: S&M

If this is green I will reconsider Distance.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And if its red, Mastina is still possible but I think that scum!mastina is a red herring that town has taken hold of. Mastina vs. VFP I think is TvT.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: quote wall

Vfp is e-1 btw:

Cyrus, mastina, s&m, distance, marci, by my count

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You tried to stop the Kitty wagon and are not interested in voting VFP today. Interesting.

UNVOTE:

Since he’s at E-1 I’m going to wait a bit. I’m not really a fan of Kyuku trying to stop the Kitty wagon and seemingly suddenly having no interest in voting VFP today.

Well I certainly had no interest in quick hammering him, you're right about that. I have not expressed any disinterest in voting VFP today though. What do you think about

why

I was trying to stop the kitty wagon yesterDay? You seem to be ignoring/not addressing the why - have you seen it?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

Oh nm I think I was looking at VFP's tally in MO not in VC

I think S&M hydra is probably confirmed town now right?

I was actually curious if anyone has seen Nancy Drew bus before, wanted to take a look at that possibility (I think that was all the Nancy Drew head)

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I had a sneaking suspicion Noraa was bussing in my last game with her, and she turned out to be town. I have the same sneaking suspicion here, though I was more confident in Noraa town than I am in this hydra at present.

I dont think flea would have doctored me if fae had won it so I'll just assume it was a setup of some kind

I thought Flea bid on cop?

I didn't get this impression, but it seems like there are several references to Flea bidding on cop as I was catching up. Did fae crumb it or something and I didn't notice?

While I'm at it I'll vote VFP. I feel like as the default candidate in a slow game working on plurality like this it's easy for as little as 1 scum to make town!Kitty go through easily.

I also like misty better than smoke/Imaginality at this point, and still am harboring suspicion about VFP's heal votes for MO early game.

VOTE: VFP

This puts him to 2, not sure what happens in a tie in plurality

You surmised a reality that Kitty was town, how does their scumflip affect your reads?

125+300 is 425. I think cyrus is here as scum to buy something for 425

I'm failing to see the leap of logic where Cyrus bids 425, did you mention it in a previous post?

Thanks for the unlock boss.

I enhanced 1-shot BP and the three 2-shots that were rolled. I did not enhance the 1-shot AD, was going to enhance that for tomorrow's auction

Were there any roles you weren't going to entertain boosting at all?

1. My assessment of the situation yesterday was that scum was taking advantage of plurality and the eminent deadline to squeeze through a lynch on a lurking townie that would give no info to town. Because of that I was interested in eliminating just about anyone else, and when I saw Misty, who I was lightly townleaning, vote VFP, a player I was scumleaning so close to deadline, I saw opportunity. I tried to get Gamma onto VFP and luckily he did not swap as Kitty ended up being scum. My reads on the players on the wagon are similar to yours, mastina's, VFP's: I think most likely they are all town. There is potential one player on the wagon was bussing, but I am not convinced and if there is a busser there, it is not Distance. To be clear I am not trying to say you mastina and VFP all feel exactly the same as I do re: that wagon, just that I think my thoughts on it are similar to yours.

2. Cyrus admitted to bidding 125 on each of the 4 roles, and the midday auction provided evidence to corroborate that. I was suspicious as to why he was hanging around so close to deadline when he seemed to not be invested in changing the current MO or Elim wagons. The only reason left to be around at deadline, imo, was to bid at the deadline. However, Cyrus' money should have already been spent if he were town. This lead me to believe he could plausibly be scum waiting to spend his remaining 300 dogecoin on increasing one of his bids. 125+300 =425, so to outbid scum!cyrus I had to spend 426. I went back and forth trying to decide whether to buy roleblock or hitman and decided that if I could get hitman it would be best. It would force scum to deal with the doctor WIFOM or to outbid town on doctor which is a big cash sink for them. This is why I claimed for the doctor my exact bid so they would have the info necessary to decide if they wanted to doc me or protect me via wifom and either save a shot last night, or doc someone else. I also felt that by buying hitman it would increase the value of the doctor and the BP I Enhanced for my successor. Unfortunately BP is the one role I enhanced that did not make it, but it turned out to not matter because I am still alive.

3. off the top of my head, dayvig, hitman, godfather, ninja. Dont remember the other scum roles if there are any. I initially was going to send in 2-shot tracker instead of 2-shot gravedigger but again thought gravedigger would be very helpful for sorting out potential fakeclaims in the upcoming days.

If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this.

VOTE: VFP

HEAL: Smoke and Mirrors

I believe MO is permanent once it has been decided D1 or?

You must've had an instinct to place Marci and Cyrus as town, if not a VFP/Me team. How?

MO is permanent until I die but I can name my replacement in my PT at any point up until my death, so if people want to express support for my successor I will take it into consideration. No promises I'll change it though.

I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I actually caught scum and you tried to save them.

Consider my point of view. From where I'm standing it looks like someone bussed Kitty. Before the flip it looked like he was an easy mislim being pushed through close to deadline. Fmpov, anyone besides Kitty had a greater chance than kitty of being scum, because of how easily the wagon went through. I didnt disagree his iso looked scummy and his disappearing after claiming to have time was definitely a red flag, but life happens sometimes.

When I read your post I think "I find this shade on my slot very strange considering I bussed my partner so I deserve towncred, and you had a bad read on the gamestate so now I'll be using that towncred to shade you"

Could the team actually be Kitty/VFP/Kyuku?

Or is VFP a miselim?

Fascinating that Kyuku completely lost her sr on VFP today and shaded me for catching scum.

Once again you're leaping to the conclusion that because I didnt immediately hammer VFP that I no longer scumread them. I think at this point it's become apparent that VFP is a mislim. The sad part is if you're town and VFP is scum your actions toDay have made me less inclined to vote VFP.

You egregiously misunderstood me then. I thought it sus that you would shading me when you were wrong on Kitty and I was right. Prior to flip, you were tr Kitty and sr me, so I would expected town!you to have reacrssed, so why haven’t you?

I have reassessed - prior to the flip I thought Kitty was being pushed through as an easy plurality lim. After the flip and reassessment I think Kitty was a crossbus. I think you and distance both make sense as the crossbusser and furthermore, after reading the 3 of you in combined ISO I think you 3 make sense as a team, but there exists a world where you just decided to defend town!distance and take his side and bus Kitty for combined motive of getting towncred and potentially pocketing Distance.

I'm still wondering though, what are your thoughts on why I voted for VFP at end of d1?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game

.

There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance, I think they just double bussed though. Triple ISO them with kitty. It seems to me the plan was to steal cop with the dead scum's wallet and save the rest of the money for later auctions when a town MO can no longer "guarantee" that no scum roles make it in. The fewer roles that remain, the less powerful the MO Enhancement becomes and the more likely a random role that benefits scum will slip in. By double bussing d1 they can ride out the game until a good scum power slips through

VOTE: S&M

If this is green I will reconsider Distance.

What are the odds that kyuku has the exact same srs as flipped scum, is a complete coincidence?

It's not a coincidence. I already told you how I came to this conclusion. I ISOed the 3 of you and I believe this was a planned crossbus. I think the plan was for you to take credit for catching scum and for the two of you to mislim VFP today because you thought I would still want to do that based on my vote end of day 1. Distance's morning post about the kitty flip confirming himself as town is also nasty.

You and distance have both missed direct questions from me, though Distance did answer when reprompted. You, however, are more focused on discrediting me as having "terrible reads" than answering the questions that would help me to sort you. If you were town and thought I had a terrible read you would be interested in answering my question, but instead you actively avoid it.

Pedit: wow you really made all those posts without answering my question again. It's not even embedded in a wall that time.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I just read through some of the game you posted. I dont see the parallels so far in reading your ISO. Is there something specific I'm missing?

I see you are still not reading or intentionally misunderstanding/ignoring my posts though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Are you even for real? Am I even voting VFP? No, I’m voting you.

you were voting him earlier when he was e-1 and then you fabricated the idea that I would not vote VFP when I pointed out he was e-1, shortly thereafter you turned on me because I tried to start a wagon on VFP end of D1, and because of the fabricated claim that I now won't vote VFP. Then, when I asked you to consider why I might have wanted VFP yesterday you ignored my question and went on a loud campaign to discredit me. Your case on me holds no water and the reason you are avoiding my question is that in answering it you will reveal how shallow your "read" truly is.

What do you have to say regarding the reasoning I provided for voting VFP at the end of D1?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The way he said, if green, he’s voting Distance absolutely pinged me though.

I did not say this. I said if you are green I will reconsider Distance. If you're red I'll absolutely be voting Distance.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Especially when he already acknowledged he had the same wrong theory about Noraa.

I made it clear when I said that in 550 that I was TRing Noraa in that game. Also, what does it matter if I've been wrong in another game before? Because Noraa wasn't bussing that one time, scum will never bus on D1 again?

I didn't hard push Noraa for bussing in that game because while the theory she was bussing occurred to me, it did not make sense, and I had good reason to TR her. Here I believe the triple ISO points to scum in you and distance. Individually I have a stronger read on you, and in the situation you were in with the d1 roles and a 2 horse race between two town for MO, it was going to take a desperate strategy to equalize.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I just read through some of the game you posted. I dont see the parallels so far in reading your ISO. Is there something specific I'm missing?

I see you are still not reading or intentionally misunderstanding/ignoring my posts though.

My slot actively rammed through a scum!Bell wagon to make sure he got yeeted.

But your slot in that game had meta experience with bell and it appeared to me that Pooky is the one that caught Bell with a meta tell. Maybe I'm wrong about the head that caught him but from what I understand pooky was not around to push Kitty yesterDay.

Kitty was also not caught by a meta tell in this game. So the parallel you describe I just dont see. I also noticed in that game, contrary to this game, your iso is very scumhunty D1, where in this game iirc you are giving out townreads seemingly left and right, and aren't really aggressive with anyone until Kitty.

Went and reread your iso - not as many TRs as I remember but seeing Kitty's reads in context with 347 still really irks me. I don't think Distance's posting to that point warranted that read which makes it all the more unusual that the 2 of you caught scum so easily.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw I asked you that question 3 times and reminded you to answer it once more. The 2nd and 3rd times I asked I separated it into its own paragraph with line breaks and the 3rd time I bolded it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Something bothers me about that imaginality wall

what bothers you about it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I just read through some of the game you posted. I dont see the parallels so far in reading your ISO. Is there something specific I'm missing?

I see you are still not reading or intentionally misunderstanding/ignoring my posts though.

I didn’t want you to hammer VFP. Is it possible you’re misunderstanding me then? I was surprised that you seemed to be no longer sr him. I think he might possibly be a miselim now because unless I’m wrong on Kitty wagon being pure, I don’t see any scum motivation in him claiming this. Also scum!him has no reason to bring up Happy Face unless it was somehow a pocket and it really didn’t look like one to me. Plus, I also liked SS’ takes on that slot. I jumped off of his wagon because when he suddenly got to E -1, I wasn’t feeling the same degree of confidence I did with Kitty and I really hate to miselim. Of course. if it were to actually turn out that he really is scum, this post will probably come back to bite me but I’m okay with that because rn, I’m leaning to him being a possible miselim.

I don’t have a super strong read on him either way rn but not interested in his wagon today. If you are actually town, then I’m really not sure who to vote for.

I think I missed this post last night. I also missed that you did answer my question now that I'm re-ISOing your later posts.

As frustrated as I was with you missing my points it seems I missed some of yours as well. I'm not satisfied with the answer you did provide, but I can see this is not happening today, and our argument does

feel

tvt in retrospect.

Who are you looking at as an alternative to VFP today, if anyone, and why?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Actually there was one other thing about S&M that pinged me. It was the assertion that flea was bidding on cop yesterday. I didn't recall seeing that anywhere.

I looked back and found it hidden in Flea's quadruple-spoilered wallet. While it is more believable that she noticed it and recalls it as a townie because flea mentioned it in a reply to her, but I feel like in their argument with me earlier that Nancy let the motivation for the NK slip. It seems like something she is sure of rather than a hypothesis.

And I know Nancy - if scum - will fully want to outbid me on the cop, given my last catch <3

Who else besides Nancy/S&M noticed this and remembers specifically that flea intended to bid on cop? I'd like as many people as possible to answer this because I think a good portion of town players probably dont notice this.

I think flea was killed because fae softed they'd bid on cop, so scum were guaranteed to take out 500 town dogecoin by killing there, assuming kitty bought cop. They were probably also avoiding killing me on the assumption that whoever bought doc would protect me last Night.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@mod: I was not voting VFP at the time this VC was posted - haven't voted him since D1

votecount 2.3

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (1) : Imaginality
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (0)
Something_Smart (1) - VFP
cyrus62 (0)
imaginality (0)
marcistar (0)
Distance (0)
VFP (5) - Mastina - Distance - marcistar - Cyrus62 - ssbm_Kyouko

not voting (4) - Everyone else

day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-26 10:38:57)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Aution Detective - the top bet at the mid point is 5

2-shot Auction Detective - the top bet at the mid point is 365

2-shot Gravedigger - the top bet at the mid point is 25

2-shot Watcher - the top bet at the mid point is 100

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

I intend to switch to any VFP alternative if this doesn't get traction

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@ssbm I noticed Flea's comment but I didn't assume it meant he was definitely bidding cop, I took it more as "Nancy got burned by my cop play in another game so I expect she, if scum, will bid high for cop to make sure I don't get it if I do bid for it."

Two immediate thoughts.
1. Mastina didn't cover "scum are trying to coin hunt" in the breakdown of possibilities for why Flea was killed. @Mastina does #705 change your analysis?

2. We shouldn't assume doc is town, it's quite possible it could be scum or even that Kitty got both roles (550 cop, 250 doc)

1. I also noticed this when I started thinking about Flea's soft and am glad to see someone else point it out.

2. I suppose this is possible but if kitty were going for both I would expect to see something more like 501/299, and would also expect to have been NKed. Also if they did get doctor they could only forcibly outbid us on 2 more roles, and with both auction detectives left they would probably like to be able to force 3 out of us so they could buy the daykill if it ever appears

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Something that didnt occur to me yet also is the scumteam could contain 3 players that are not suited to MO and that is why the race for MO was between 2 town yesterday. Food for thought.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

I intend to switch to any VFP alternative if this doesn't get traction

I guess you don’t intend on answering my question. How did you re-ISO me and are still voting us?

VOTE: Kyuku

This is seriously dumb.

I didnt reread your whole iso. I told you I was rereading toward the end of it.

Hey @Kyuku, why tf wouldn’t I have noticed that post when it was specifically addressed to ME? How is Kyyuku not scum here? How?

It seems like an unusual thing to remember to me unless you're on the lookout for it.

And that is why Kyuku is scum here. Scum killed Flea to push me and who is pushing me? Kyuku. Slam dunk.

I had the same thought about you. That scum killed flea to set me up because I was saying flea was the scum MO candidate on D1. Eliminating me today is throwing away the advantage we've gotten from rolling cop d1 and having elected a town MO. If I'm wrong about my successor they will easily be able to slip a scum role in. I am happy to to be eliminated on a later day if a scum role ever appears, even if it is by chance. I dont want a town!successor of mine to get unlucky and hit a scum role and be policied for it.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Smoke and Mirrors is a hydra containing Pooky.
Pooky has never bussed on D1 as scum, ever.

Smoke and Mirrors is thus the locktown of the locktown for how D1 went down.

Pooky was not around on d1 due to net issues. It was all Nancy.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Smoke and Mirrors is a hydra containing Pooky.
Pooky has never bussed on D1 as scum, ever.

Smoke and Mirrors is thus the locktown of the locktown for how D1 went down.

Kyuku doesn’t care about any reasons pointing away from his agenda. When he referenced that Flea post against me, the wheels turned and it clicked. I really do think Kyuku’s scum here and scum killed Flea to frame us.

You can look at my original push and see that I found it odd that you were saying flea bid on cop. I asked you about it and you didn't answer me. I had changed my mind on you, thought we had a tvt fight last night, when I remembered the other thing that pinged me. I did not pull this out of the air. I had the time to reread flea and found the indication that fae was bidding on cop and I saw your name there in that post and it all came crashing down around me again. You cannot seriously be reading my posts and thinking this is a shitpush. You are ignoring the reasoning I present you with, just as you did last night.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Now I'm going to go through your iso and respond to anything I've missed. I expect you to do the same for me if you have any faith left.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This post took a very long time to write on my phone. Please take the time to read it :/

Starting at 565, rereading S&M's ISO as they have accused me of acting in bad faith/ignoring their question:

In 610 you indicate I egregiously misunderstood you - what was it that I was misunderstanding? Could you clear that up for me?

639: this is the second time you've indicated I will eventually sr Imaginality and Gamma and ftr I'd already 180ed on Imaginality toward EoD1, and I believe neither of their votes on Kitty were a bus, and they dont have the same partner associations you and distance have with Kitty. I don't like their vote on me right now but they're generally bad at reading me from what I remember. Gamma will remember in 2213 how I, as a widely TRed townie, believed so strongly that he was town that I faked a guilty on another player who turned out to be town. I was right about Gamma then and I feel just as certain about VFP here. He is not dying toDay. I don't wk as scum.

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

642 this is the first non-rhetorical question I've seen you post that I didn't already respond to, and even it borderlines on rhetorical. I do think there is a world where I am wrong about both you and Distance. I do not think we are in it, but I would bet the game on VFP being town here.

I am passing the MO to VFP as of right now.

643 here is where you provided a dissatisfactory answer to my question. I was asking specifically what you thought about the reasoning I provided at the time that I voted VFP at end of day 1? As a reminder/tldr, my reasoning was that Kitty seemed like the "default" plurality lim that was being slipped through by scum and that if scum wanted to lim Kitty, it made sense to me to lim anyone besides him. I saw Misty, who I was townreading at the time, voted VFP, a player I had an early scumread on, who I thought Gamma, another TR of mine, might be willing to vote. I then voted VFP and appealed to Gamma for assistance in eliminating VFP.

does any of my reasoning sound scummy to you? If so, please be specific. I believe you intentionally misinterpreted the intent of my question and avoided providing a complete answer. This was the original reason you cited for pushing me today and it is very important that you explain your reasoning, because as it stands your push appears to have been in bad faith.

652 here you ask if it is possible I was misunderstanding you. I interpreted from 565 where you originally shade me that you wanted town me to vote VFP, because In that post, you quote my vote count of the players on the VFP wagon as evidence. I think you were frustrated that I had lost interest in voting VFP after seeing the Kitty flip. This is unusual because VFP was counter to scum, so why would i want to vote him after that? And dont say I'm not voting him today for towncred, as i obviously dont need it, as is evidenced by the MO vote on D1.

I'll post the full quote for this one as there are embedded quotes that matter here and it's easier this way.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

I still do think this. Have you critically examined his ISO? I’m referring to his other reads and don’t understand why town!you are myopically only focused on Kitty?

I explained why I tr him and it had absolutely nothing to do with Kitty. Re-read my ISO because you seem to be ignoring any of my posts that don’t seem to fit your narrative.

I have critically examined Distance's ISO. I believe there are associations there that point to a team with you and Kitty. I do not believe there was evidence of genuine sorting as of post 347 which is where you cited that you TR him for genuine sorting. His other reads were by and large, shallow or unexplained townreads that are easily faked as scum. There is nothing that indicates to me that he was scumhunting as of 347.

I have now reread your iso from 565 to this post I quoted and I dont believe I ignored any of your posts that "dont fit my narrative." If such posts exist, please quote them for everyone to see, so you can actually provide evidence to support at least one bit of shade you're casting on me.

664 sorry if I'm making you feel personally attacked - whether you're scum or not - I don't see another reason for you to bring this up, but please try to look out for bolded text if you can. If I weren't phone posting almost all the time I would color code or something to try to make my posts more clear for you.

714 if it has to be someone off the wagon, I'm not really sure. Obviously I'm tunneled.right now but I would have to reread d2 and see. Gut instinct, if the Kitty wagon was pure, Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus. I'm still suspicious about him being around at deadline on d1. I think he was looking to buy hitman for 425. Its possible scum!cyrus thought Roleblocker but I doubt it. If it just has to be someone off of the wagon then maybe mastina gets thrown in too because I'm having a hard time.reading her D1 and was somewhat relying on other players like yourself to let me know if I should be worried about her right now (on D1). Was saving her to sort for later but as i see her as a possible alternative partner to scum!you, or potentially using town!you as a beard, I'd probably want to look at her the closest. Problem is I dont have time to do any of that with the deadline incoming. Its 2 am here...

716 which head posted this? If it was nancy not pooky, why didn't you quote this before when I asked about Flea crumbing/claiming cop bid?

717 which question are you referring to? I think it's in bad faith to not let me know which question in this post. I did you that courtesy several times because I really care about getting a complete answer to a very specific question. You're not helping me to TR you if you are town, and I really am and have been trying.

719 while this may come from frustrated town, for that very reason it is also an excusable way for scum to dismiss my push: "I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad."

However, you bringing up this quote is making lean to you’re not being town, why? Because if you use your brain, it’s pretty damned obvious that scum is trying to set us up and if you’re scum with Kitty, you referencing that quote makes perfect sense.

First of all, it is not obvious to me, so could you explain? Second, saying "if you're scum with kitty" kind of feels like something you only say if you know kitty has different partners, since kitty is already flipped. Maybe that's just tunnel vision though. The verbiage is weird to me.

722 if it is so blatantly obviously a shitpush, then why are you not providing any evidence to refute my points? Why are you instead resorting to discrediting me if, by your own admission, it is obvious what is wrong with my push? This is not how town behaves.

724 I have made every effort to be transparent in my push on you and you have resorted to discrediting me the entire time. It is laughable that you would accuse me of acting in bad faith when all of the evidence points to the contrary.

727
I get that you would notice it because it was directed at you. What was unusual was that you happened to remember it. It seems like such a minor detail to be concerned about as town, but it makes sense for scum to keep track of it.

The rest of the posts I'll respond to individually.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Smoke and Mirrors is a hydra containing Pooky.
Pooky has never bussed on D1 as scum, ever.

Smoke and Mirrors is thus the locktown of the locktown for how D1 went down.

I think I addressed this somewhere already but just sk you know in case you're town and using that to TR the hydra, pooky was not present for the Kitty wagon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Have I actually caught 2 scum? That would be amazing. But it’s so freaking obvious that scum was trying to set us up that either Kyuku is the worst scumhunter in mafia history or he actually is scum. Rn, I’m leaning to yes.

You know what, this got me thinking and I have 0 of the good vibes I got from kyouko in mini 2213 rn
VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I feel like a bastard for this but it’s making enough sense and S&M has earned my trust

Sorry you're not feeling the same here but I'm doing for VFP what I did for you, and maybe from the outside it looks different, as opposed to when you're the town I'm hard-defending. I dont wk as scum generally though.

Anyways, VFP is town. I'm town. Don't make the same mistake twice.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Have I actually caught 2 scum? That would be amazing. But it’s so freaking obvious that scum was trying to set us up that either Kyuku is the worst scumhunter in mafia history or he actually is scum. Rn, I’m leaning to yes.

You know what, this got me thinking and I have 0 of the good vibes I got from kyouko in mini 2213 rn
VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I feel like a bastard for this but it’s making enough sense and S&M has earned my trust

I was leaning town on them until he brought up that Flea post. That screamed blatant scum frame up to me and I think Distance is very obviously town.

And the way Kyuku said if we flip green, he’s going to push Distance to push his bussing theory, That was the first thing that pinged me. Kyuku is very obviously trying to chain miselims on us and Distance.

This is the second time S&M has misrepresented this post, and I already called them out on it the first time:

There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance, I think they just double bussed though. Triple ISO them with kitty. It seems to me the plan was to steal cop with the dead scum's wallet and save the rest of the money for later auctions when a town MO can no longer "guarantee" that no scum roles make it in. The fewer roles that remain, the less powerful the MO Enhancement becomes and the more likely a random role that benefits scum will slip in. By double bussing d1 they can ride out the game until a good scum power slips through

VOTE: S&M

If this is green I will reconsider Distance

.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: vfp why do you want everyone off him?z?.z?

He's town is why. He was the alternative to Kitty. I have to get sleep and deadline is close so I don't like this as much as S&M but I wont be awake at deadline. Mostly sheeping my top TRs here but I also think the misty slot was very absent and S_S did little to reassure me on replace in.

While I am mostly sheeping here I am happy with this lim and am not trying to prematurely shift blame in case of a green flip, and you can quote me on that.

I also lowkey think when misty posted about this setup being solveable.by poe and "at least that's going to be my excuse" was a bit of a "disheartened to have rolled scum" post

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh forgot to VOTE: something_smart

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mistyx who are you scumreading rn?

no one yet

i feel like this setup can be won by PoE anyway

at least that’s gonna be my excuse

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Pop pop someone out of 4dies in 6 hours wonder who it is pop pop sorry I told you guys if it's a tie it's random between those 4

S_S dies with the current cc because you unvoted VFP. in the case of a tie, the player that has been at the tied vc the longest dies. By unvoting it means VFP or another wagon will need 4 votes to go through over S_S

[ssbm_Kyouko]

3:12 am. My legacy is around if I die... uhh VFP if I die, please enhance the following roles

[ssbm_Kyouko]

1 shot Bulletproof and 1 shot doctor, and both 1 and 2 shot trackers

[ssbm_Kyouko]

He's town is why. He was the alternative to Kitty.

Are these related? Why can't the two top wagons be S/S?

Alright my dog woke me up. Looks like theres still time.
The likelihood of that is much lower than T/S on day 1, just given the ratio of town to scum and the lack of flips. I know it happens but odds are against it. Going to catchup now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This post took a very long time to write on my phone. Please take the time to read it :/

Starting at 565, rereading S&M's ISO as they have accused me of acting in bad faith/ignoring their question:

In 610 you indicate I egregiously misunderstood you - what was it that I was misunderstanding? Could you clear that up for me?

639: this is the second time you've indicated I will eventually sr Imaginality and Gamma and ftr I'd already 180ed on Imaginality toward EoD1, and I believe neither of their votes on Kitty were a bus, and they dont have the same partner associations you and distance have with Kitty. I don't like their vote on me right now but they're generally bad at reading me from what I remember. Gamma will remember in 2213 how I, as a widely TRed townie, believed so strongly that he was town that I faked a guilty on another player who turned out to be town. I was right about Gamma then and I feel just as certain about VFP here. He is not dying toDay. I don't wk as scum.

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

642 this is the first non-rhetorical question I've seen you post that I didn't already respond to, and even it borderlines on rhetorical. I do think there is a world where I am wrong about both you and Distance. I do not think we are in it, but I would bet the game on VFP being town here.

I am passing the MO to VFP as of right now.

643 here is where you provided a dissatisfactory answer to my question. I was asking specifically what you thought about the reasoning I provided at the time that I voted VFP at end of day 1? As a reminder/tldr, my reasoning was that Kitty seemed like the "default" plurality lim that was being slipped through by scum and that if scum wanted to lim Kitty, it made sense to me to lim anyone besides him. I saw Misty, who I was townreading at the time, voted VFP, a player I had an early scumread on, who I thought Gamma, another TR of mine, might be willing to vote. I then voted VFP and appealed to Gamma for assistance in eliminating VFP.

does any of my reasoning sound scummy to you? If so, please be specific. I believe you intentionally misinterpreted the intent of my question and avoided providing a complete answer. This was the original reason you cited for pushing me today and it is very important that you explain your reasoning, because as it stands your push appears to have been in bad faith.

652 here you ask if it is possible I was misunderstanding you. I interpreted from 565 where you originally shade me that you wanted town me to vote VFP, because In that post, you quote my vote count of the players on the VFP wagon as evidence. I think you were frustrated that I had lost interest in voting VFP after seeing the Kitty flip. This is unusual because VFP was counter to scum, so why would i want to vote him after that? And dont say I'm not voting him today for towncred, as i obviously dont need it, as is evidenced by the MO vote on D1.

I'll post the full quote for this one as there are embedded quotes that matter here and it's easier this way.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

I still do think this. Have you critically examined his ISO? I’m referring to his other reads and don’t understand why town!you are myopically only focused on Kitty?

I explained why I tr him and it had absolutely nothing to do with Kitty. Re-read my ISO because you seem to be ignoring any of my posts that don’t seem to fit your narrative.

I have critically examined Distance's ISO. I believe there are associations there that point to a team with you and Kitty. I do not believe there was evidence of genuine sorting as of post 347 which is where you cited that you TR him for genuine sorting. His other reads were by and large, shallow or unexplained townreads that are easily faked as scum. There is nothing that indicates to me that he was scumhunting as of 347.

I have now reread your iso from 565 to this post I quoted and I dont believe I ignored any of your posts that "dont fit my narrative." If such posts exist, please quote them for everyone to see, so you can actually provide evidence to support at least one bit of shade you're casting on me.

664 sorry if I'm making you feel personally attacked - whether you're scum or not - I don't see another reason for you to bring this up, but please try to look out for bolded text if you can. If I weren't phone posting almost all the time I would color code or something to try to make my posts more clear for you.

714 if it has to be someone off the wagon, I'm not really sure. Obviously I'm tunneled.right now but I would have to reread d2 and see. Gut instinct, if the Kitty wagon was pure, Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus. I'm still suspicious about him being around at deadline on d1. I think he was looking to buy hitman for 425. Its possible scum!cyrus thought Roleblocker but I doubt it. If it just has to be someone off of the wagon then maybe mastina gets thrown in too because I'm having a hard time.reading her D1 and was somewhat relying on other players like yourself to let me know if I should be worried about her right now (on D1). Was saving her to sort for later but as i see her as a possible alternative partner to scum!you, or potentially using town!you as a beard, I'd probably want to look at her the closest. Problem is I dont have time to do any of that with the deadline incoming. Its 2 am here...

716 which head posted this? If it was nancy not pooky, why didn't you quote this before when I asked about Flea crumbing/claiming cop bid?

717 which question are you referring to? I think it's in bad faith to not let me know which question in this post. I did you that courtesy several times because I really care about getting a complete answer to a very specific question. You're not helping me to TR you if you are town, and I really am and have been trying.

719 while this may come from frustrated town, for that very reason it is also an excusable way for scum to dismiss my push: "I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad."

However, you bringing up this quote is making lean to you’re not being town, why? Because if you use your brain, it’s pretty damned obvious that scum is trying to set us up and if you’re scum with Kitty, you referencing that quote makes perfect sense.

First of all, it is not obvious to me, so could you explain? Second, saying "if you're scum with kitty" kind of feels like something you only say if you know kitty has different partners, since kitty is already flipped. Maybe that's just tunnel vision though. The verbiage is weird to me.

722 if it is so blatantly obviously a shitpush, then why are you not providing any evidence to refute my points? Why are you instead resorting to discrediting me if, by your own admission, it is obvious what is wrong with my push? This is not how town behaves.

724 I have made every effort to be transparent in my push on you and you have resorted to discrediting me the entire time. It is laughable that you would accuse me of acting in bad faith when all of the evidence points to the contrary.

727
I get that you would notice it because it was directed at you. What was unusual was that you happened to remember it. It seems like such a minor detail to be concerned about as town, but it makes sense for scum to keep track of it.

The rest of the posts I'll respond to individually.

Because I find it inconceivable that anyone would seriously think that I A) read that post, acknowledged it and referenced it and still B) would do that if I killed Flea. It would be like I’m trying to set myself up the next day and that’s why it read like a possible frame up to me, like scum saw that post Flea made and killed fae to frame me.

You're probably right in that it doesnt make sense that you would reference it if you killed flea, but I was thinking it was a slip. There are enough people saying this is TvT, and I had the same thought before I looked at flea's cop crumb, so for now I'll go with that. If you're scum good job I guess, you out-wifomed everyone and yelled your way out of it.

I think that’s what very likely happened and since you were the one who pointed it out and have been tunnelling me despite catching Kitty, it looked like it was you. I don’t feel personally attacked though but it’s extremely hard for me to not see it as a shitpush. I don’t think Distance is scum, so I honestly don’t get that read either. When Kitty made all of those reads, he didn’t know he was getting elimed, that’s why I think he’s spewed town. I think Kitty was in antispew and every name he did reference was town.
color=blue]I meant I dont see why you'd bring up adhd add dyslexia if you didn't feel personally attacked, not that my push was in any way personal. Anyways, I'll still have to look at Distance in later days if we're not hitting scum off of the Kitty wagon, I'm not convinced by his iso. Maybe he can change that toMorrow.[/color]

I asked you who do you think is scum off Kitty wagon because if I’m wrong about you, then that’s where I believe scum most likely are.

I just felt like you aren’t really trying to sort me.

Gamma’s town sheeping me I think.

Well, I know I’m town and yes I’m aware that doesn’t mean anything AI, so I obviously know that there aren’t any associatives between my slot and anyone. This isn’t how I play scum but you obviously wouldn’t know that.

How much time left?

Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus

I see you did answer. I don’t think Marci. I liked her posting. I hard tr Misty and SS hasn’t done anything to ping me. It’s a toss up with CB. This isn’t typically how they play either town or scum. Maybe take another look at Cyrus?

He had this strange post claiming I said things I know I didn’t, so maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick to tr the no execute?
color=blue]I don't know. I'm worried he's just mislim bait with the way he plays but i haven't see evidence he's trying to sort (as I recall without ISOing), and i do think he was around last time to bid at the last minute which doesnt make sense if he is town. I'm willing to knock mastina off this list for now as well as she has presented some decent efforts, though I dont agree with her conclusions on VFP. My misty read was weaker, like nulltown, and I was biased towards town on her because she was voting me for MO. I think she flipped to herself late D1 which pinged me and maybe that's where the feelings come from. I do know I never.felt strongly.she was town and S_S also seems lacking. Marci has also felt a bit shaky like misty did, but I think she is town here. I get the feeling she believes what she's posting and it's not agenda-driven, so maybe her plan as scum is meshing with the state of the game and she's coasting but I would prefer to go elsewhere toDay.[/color]

UNVOTE:

for now.

I responded in blue inside your quote, hopefully that helps

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This post took a very long time to write on my phone. Please take the time to read it :/

Starting at 565, rereading S&M's ISO as they have accused me of acting in bad faith/ignoring their question:

In 610 you indicate I egregiously misunderstood you - what was it that I was misunderstanding? Could you clear that up for me?

639: this is the second time you've indicated I will eventually sr Imaginality and Gamma and ftr I'd already 180ed on Imaginality toward EoD1, and I believe neither of their votes on Kitty were a bus, and they dont have the same partner associations you and distance have with Kitty. I don't like their vote on me right now but they're generally bad at reading me from what I remember. Gamma will remember in 2213 how I, as a widely TRed townie, believed so strongly that he was town that I faked a guilty on another player who turned out to be town. I was right about Gamma then and I feel just as certain about VFP here. He is not dying toDay. I don't wk as scum.

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

642 this is the first non-rhetorical question I've seen you post that I didn't already respond to, and even it borderlines on rhetorical. I do think there is a world where I am wrong about both you and Distance. I do not think we are in it, but I would bet the game on VFP being town here.

I am passing the MO to VFP as of right now.

643 here is where you provided a dissatisfactory answer to my question. I was asking specifically what you thought about the reasoning I provided at the time that I voted VFP at end of day 1? As a reminder/tldr, my reasoning was that Kitty seemed like the "default" plurality lim that was being slipped through by scum and that if scum wanted to lim Kitty, it made sense to me to lim anyone besides him. I saw Misty, who I was townreading at the time, voted VFP, a player I had an early scumread on, who I thought Gamma, another TR of mine, might be willing to vote. I then voted VFP and appealed to Gamma for assistance in eliminating VFP.

does any of my reasoning sound scummy to you? If so, please be specific. I believe you intentionally misinterpreted the intent of my question and avoided providing a complete answer. This was the original reason you cited for pushing me today and it is very important that you explain your reasoning, because as it stands your push appears to have been in bad faith.

652 here you ask if it is possible I was misunderstanding you. I interpreted from 565 where you originally shade me that you wanted town me to vote VFP, because In that post, you quote my vote count of the players on the VFP wagon as evidence. I think you were frustrated that I had lost interest in voting VFP after seeing the Kitty flip. This is unusual because VFP was counter to scum, so why would i want to vote him after that? And dont say I'm not voting him today for towncred, as i obviously dont need it, as is evidenced by the MO vote on D1.

I'll post the full quote for this one as there are embedded quotes that matter here and it's easier this way.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

I still do think this. Have you critically examined his ISO? I’m referring to his other reads and don’t understand why town!you are myopically only focused on Kitty?

I explained why I tr him and it had absolutely nothing to do with Kitty. Re-read my ISO because you seem to be ignoring any of my posts that don’t seem to fit your narrative.

I have critically examined Distance's ISO. I believe there are associations there that point to a team with you and Kitty. I do not believe there was evidence of genuine sorting as of post 347 which is where you cited that you TR him for genuine sorting. His other reads were by and large, shallow or unexplained townreads that are easily faked as scum. There is nothing that indicates to me that he was scumhunting as of 347.

I have now reread your iso from 565 to this post I quoted and I dont believe I ignored any of your posts that "dont fit my narrative." If such posts exist, please quote them for everyone to see, so you can actually provide evidence to support at least one bit of shade you're casting on me.

664 sorry if I'm making you feel personally attacked - whether you're scum or not - I don't see another reason for you to bring this up, but please try to look out for bolded text if you can. If I weren't phone posting almost all the time I would color code or something to try to make my posts more clear for you.

714 if it has to be someone off the wagon, I'm not really sure. Obviously I'm tunneled.right now but I would have to reread d2 and see. Gut instinct, if the Kitty wagon was pure, Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus. I'm still suspicious about him being around at deadline on d1. I think he was looking to buy hitman for 425. Its possible scum!cyrus thought Roleblocker but I doubt it. If it just has to be someone off of the wagon then maybe mastina gets thrown in too because I'm having a hard time.reading her D1 and was somewhat relying on other players like yourself to let me know if I should be worried about her right now (on D1). Was saving her to sort for later but as i see her as a possible alternative partner to scum!you, or potentially using town!you as a beard, I'd probably want to look at her the closest. Problem is I dont have time to do any of that with the deadline incoming. Its 2 am here...

716 which head posted this? If it was nancy not pooky, why didn't you quote this before when I asked about Flea crumbing/claiming cop bid?

717 which question are you referring to? I think it's in bad faith to not let me know which question in this post. I did you that courtesy several times because I really care about getting a complete answer to a very specific question. You're not helping me to TR you if you are town, and I really am and have been trying.

719 while this may come from frustrated town, for that very reason it is also an excusable way for scum to dismiss my push: "I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad."

However, you bringing up this quote is making lean to you’re not being town, why? Because if you use your brain, it’s pretty damned obvious that scum is trying to set us up and if you’re scum with Kitty, you referencing that quote makes perfect sense.

First of all, it is not obvious to me, so could you explain? Second, saying "if you're scum with kitty" kind of feels like something you only say if you know kitty has different partners, since kitty is already flipped. Maybe that's just tunnel vision though. The verbiage is weird to me.

722 if it is so blatantly obviously a shitpush, then why are you not providing any evidence to refute my points? Why are you instead resorting to discrediting me if, by your own admission, it is obvious what is wrong with my push? This is not how town behaves.

724 I have made every effort to be transparent in my push on you and you have resorted to discrediting me the entire time. It is laughable that you would accuse me of acting in bad faith when all of the evidence points to the contrary.

727
I get that you would notice it because it was directed at you. What was unusual was that you happened to remember it. It seems like such a minor detail to be concerned about as town, but it makes sense for scum to keep track of it.

The rest of the posts I'll respond to individually.

Because I find it inconceivable that anyone would seriously think that I A) read that post, acknowledged it and referenced it and still B) would do that if I killed Flea. It would be like I’m trying to set myself up the next day and that’s why it read like a possible frame up to me, like scum saw that post Flea made and killed fae to frame me.

You're probably right in that it doesnt make sense that you would reference it if you killed flea, but I was thinking it was a slip. There are enough people saying this is TvT, and I had the same thought before I looked at flea's cop crumb, so for now I'll go with that. If you're scum good job I guess, you out-wifomed everyone and yelled your way out of it.

I think that’s what very likely happened and since you were the one who pointed it out and have been tunnelling me despite catching Kitty, it looked like it was you. I don’t feel personally attacked though but it’s extremely hard for me to not see it as a shitpush. I don’t think Distance is scum, so I honestly don’t get that read either. When Kitty made all of those reads, he didn’t know he was getting elimed, that’s why I think he’s spewed town. I think Kitty was in antispew and every name he did reference was town.
color=blue]I meant I dont see why you'd bring up adhd add dyslexia if you didn't feel personally attacked, not that my push was in any way personal. Anyways, I'll still have to look at Distance in later days if we're not hitting scum off of the Kitty wagon, I'm not convinced by his iso. Maybe he can change that toMorrow.[/color]

I asked you who do you think is scum off Kitty wagon because if I’m wrong about you, then that’s where I believe scum most likely are.

I just felt like you aren’t really trying to sort me.

Gamma’s town sheeping me I think.

Well, I know I’m town and yes I’m aware that doesn’t mean anything AI, so I obviously know that there aren’t any associatives between my slot and anyone. This isn’t how I play scum but you obviously wouldn’t know that.

How much time left?

Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus

I see you did answer. I don’t think Marci. I liked her posting. I hard tr Misty and SS hasn’t done anything to ping me. It’s a toss up with CB. This isn’t typically how they play either town or scum. Maybe take another look at Cyrus?

He had this strange post claiming I said things I know I didn’t, so maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick to tr the no execute?

I don't know. I'm worried he's just mislim bait with the way he plays but i haven't see evidence he's trying to sort (as I recall without ISOing), and i do think he was around last time to bid at the last minute which doesnt make sense if he is town. I'm willing to knock mastina off this list for now as well as she has presented some decent efforts, though I dont agree with her conclusions on VFP. My misty read was weaker, like nulltown, and I was biased towards town on her because she was voting me for MO. I think she flipped to herself late D1 which pinged me and maybe that's where the feelings come from. I do know I never.felt strongly.she was town and S_S also seems lacking. Marci has also felt a bit shaky like misty did, but I think she is town here. I get the feeling she believes what she's posting and it's not agenda-driven, so maybe her plan as scum is meshing with the state of the game and she's coasting but I would prefer to go elsewhere toDay.

UNVOTE:

for now.

I responded in blue inside your quote, hopefully that helps

EBWOP. Last color tag was broken.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Smoke and Mirrors is a hydra containing Pooky.
Pooky has never bussed on D1 as scum, ever.

Smoke and Mirrors is thus the locktown of the locktown for how D1 went down.

I think I addressed this somewhere already but just sk you know in case you're town and using that to TR the hydra, pooky was not present for the Kitty wagon.

How would you know? We have a PT together and he did post in it. Reread my interactions with Kitty again. I relentlessly grill her and only decided he’s pretty much confiscum when he comes back on line, claims to have time yet doesn’t answer any of my questions. If I was actually bussing Kitty or anyone for that matter, why even bother with that?

I thought you said he hadn't been able to get on discord and assumed he was still not around as your hydra's posts all seemed to come from Nancy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sup homies


I’m town.

Nancy will be around to make this slot obviously town because she loves doing that.

Also I can’t believe Alisae roped me into playing this game and immediately repped out

Wild stuff

@Kitty Tacky, do me a favour please. The next time you decide to shade one of my or Pooky’s posts, please do us the courtesy of actually quoting the entire thing and not chopping the part of it that puts it into context. Thanks.

Hello everyone, I didn't play with any of you because I mostly played normals. VOTE: Alisae

Alright I was busy during the start of the thread, will post more later.

Yeah real life got in the way.

VFP seems quite town to me, personally. He has been quite helpful and just generally smelled town.

I’m town.

I don't like this.

@Gamma, I don’t understand the point of any of their posts so far.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

Are you going to bother to explain this or is it still because of that one line you plucked out of that post and deleted the context?

And are you also going to explain either A) why you did that and B) why it makes us scum?

Continuing to shade a slot without any explanation os making me think VFP might possibly be right about you.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Cool., you probably are scum then.

VOTE: KittyTacky

Again, no explanation for either this vote or previous sketchy shade.

@Distance why did you vote for Kitty?

You think they’re town? I’m asking myself if they’re really scummy town and tstbs or actually just scum. I have pretty much hated all of their posts so far.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

Are you going to bother to explain this or is it still because of that one line you plucked out of that post and deleted the context?

And are you also going to explain either A) why you did that and B) why it makes us scum?

Continuing to shade a slot without any explanation os making me think VFP might possibly be right about you.

VOTE: Smoke and Mirrors

Cool., you probably are scum then.

VOTE: KittyTacky

Again, no explanation for either this vote or previous sketchy shade.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

@Kitty Tacky are you just going to ignore my posts indefinitely?

When do you plan on actually responding to this?

Have more time now.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

I am comfortable saying so because in my past games townies had a very similar tone and played similarly. Maybe this logic is flawed?

What “similar” tone and how did they play “similarly”?

Similar to freaking what exactly? I want specifics and if you don’t satisfactorily answer my questions, I’m never unvoting you.

Have more time now.

Nancy, guess my main.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

I get the idea that VFP/Flea are the same alignment but I'm not ready to call that town. Why are you comfortable saying so?

Also I don't think Kyouko or his voters have given me much passing thought, which does not instill confidence.

I am comfortable saying so because in my past games townies had a very similar tone and played similarly. Maybe this logic is flawed?

Kitty has “more time” but almost an entire hour has gone by and she hasn’t satisfactorily explained anything.

Do any of these seriously look like buddy posts?

I think everything up to 387 can easily be bussing, 387 itself though I think is probably town as scum can let their partner off the hook if nothing sticks but this doesn't happen with you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Kyouku, SS is bleeding obvtown, do you want to stop bleeding obvtown from flipping or not?

I'm still catching up and saw this in pedit, I will skip ahead to their posts and evaluate

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I could see Kyouko/Imaginality but I don't know how that equates to a Kitty scum team.

I also don't think most scum players have the stamina to post-by-posy refute you, SM.

If you find any games I was scum in ELo (there have been a few) vs where I was town in ELo you'll know this is definitely town me (at least I think you will). But that's not important right now

SS feels like a crystal ball or a mirror in games with him.

You either see your own reflection or a fragment on what's to come. So far I've just seen a mirror. Granted reping into a game with a day left to its already short ass deadline just to be turbolimmed has to fucking suck so like, sorry if that's the case SS - please post soon if you can.

For non game reasons I don't think mastina will be vocal by deadline. My push means means even less than it already did. Mmm...

SS/Kyuku/VFP must contain 1 town at least.

I'm not cool with leaving this to a 1/3 plurality roll. I will shift to -probably SS- if I must.

And I'm not cool at ALL with a no lim.

Also Nancy, this alt is mean to explore a different style with mafia. I may have the same tonal range as before, but I'm intentionally making meta a less effective approach to sort me.

Yes, I see. I tend to suck at doing that. I always think I’ll play extremely differently on an alt but usually tend to wind up playing the same.

This game is extremely frustrating. I feel like I’m always rushing and feel pressured to know exactly what I’m doing at deadline. D1 it was actually easy since Kitty was so obviously scum.

This reinforces the idea that at least 1 scum is a deepwolf, but i think another resides on VFP wagon.

This assumes that the ganeatate points to VFP town which I think is plausible. I feel like if scum could've quockhammered a townie, they wouldn't because thwy would knowingly get turbo limmed with deadlines this short and votes coming down to "3? You're dead."

I'm not following the reasoning, but assuming I can at some point follow it, do.you mean it points to the current VFO wagon or to the E-1 wagon from.Daystart?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mod confirmed in ties it is the first to reach

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@ssbm re. #605: that post begins: "There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance."

If you believed that then, if S&M flips green why would you reconsider Distance if you're sure one of the two is scum and you (as per that post) believe both are scum?

Compared to if you had said just "S&M and Distance are double bussing" where a green flip means a definite need to reconsider.

Seems to me like that first line might be the cause of S&M's view that you're looking to chain mis-elims. So I don't think they're misrepping that post as wildly as you think they are.

Something_Smart is a good choice for today's elimination. I like your theory about the "that's gonna be my excuse" post.

okay yeah this is a reasonable explanation, I see what you're saying now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't follow Mastina's reads in congruence with her stance on the game. If she were lost or had little input, why are so many slots conftown to her? Why would she focus on a scumread that is already universally suspected (VFP) without really being in contact with VFP to deduce an alignment directly? More so, why tailor an associative between two more players (Cyrus/Me). The list feels convenient to navigate a wagon onto another player in the event of a VFP-townflip that I think is likely.

I'm thinking Mastina may have outside factors going on that could affect her gameplay (plus deadline is different than other games), but I've mainly seen Mastina-town as someone who is more vocal or direct in the thread with their voice - and I'm not seeing that here.

I also understand that I'm projecting in some degree... This is a play I personally see myself doing as scum.

I don’t see scum!Mastina voting Flea for MO then killing fae, I would think scum!Mastina would probably be voting a buddy. I think she actually did that in a game I was in - try to get her buddy into the top spot, so voting Flea for MO makes me also think this is her towngame.

Do you think scum!mastina votes.Flea for MO in the hopes that Flea will name mastina as fae's successor? I think mastina slipped she was unaware of the successor mechanic on D2 but it could have been intentional as I did suspect Flea was either scum, or had the support of a scum who believed they would succeed fae on D1.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Cyrus

Why vote us instead of taking a stand?

Idk, I guess I could do either. What do you guys think? Kyouku or Cyrus?

I'm going to trust you on S_S, Cyrus is in my poe anyways and I do think he was there at deadline to bid yesterday but nobody else is gonna believe that lmao

VOTE: Cyrus

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My main gripe with Kyouko was the public justification to get hitman. It felt a bit like theatre using Cyrus as a scapegoat to acquire a scum-PR.

Hmmmmmm... But I don't have strong feelings on Cyrus either way, and while Kyouko doesn't give me warm fuzzy vibes, does that mean scum really?

I get why this might have looked like theater, because it was a performance. I was trying to corner cyrus because I had a suspicion about why he was around, and I think I did. I'm just not sure if I caught scum!Cyrus or town!Cyrus

Pedit: I think town!cyrus is not afraid to take a stand tbh. Maybe he just knew Kitty was doomed and didnt want to rock the boat

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The VFP wagon today:

1. post 483, mastina votes VFP for no reason: "If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this."
2. post 522 mastina invents some logic which conveniently turns out to justify staying on VFP
3.post 524, Smoke and Mirrors agrees with mastina and adds VFP's pseudo-vote on Misty as another reason
4.post 532, Smoke and Mirrors unvotes to look at CB
5.post 537, Distance votes VFP, no reason given
6.post 542, Smoke and Mirrors votes VFP again for the pseudo-vote on Misty
7.post 545, marcistar votes VFP and says if she were scum VFP would be dead
8.post 546, cyrus62 votes VFP wondering what the flip would mean
9.post 565, Smoke and Mirrors unvotes VFP because ssbm swung from pushing VFP D1 to not D2
10.post 671, marcistar unvotes because of being busy
11.post 679, cyrus62 quotes Cupcake's pro VFP post and says "no one should vote till we do reads better"

1 looks bad to me because it's not D1, there were votes on VFP D1 so claiming to vote VFP for no reason is lazy. Maybe too obviously bad? Add in that 2 seems like biased logic at best, and you can I hope see why I didn't like this from mastina. I have recognised that out of game stuff makes it difficult to push more on mastina today though so I'm parking this til D3, we have time
3,4,6,9 in the context of S&M's other posts seem like reasonably legit scum hunting
5,7,8 are all unimpressive votes from Distance, marci and cyrus, and cyrus's unvote 11 seems like sheeping marci's unvote 10

Distance parking on VFP and going awol is also a bad look.

Overall I don't think anyone on the VFP wagon has covered themselves in glory. Like even if VFP flipped scum this is not awesome scum hunting.

It seems we all agree on cyrus but actually look at this post and look at marci's vote and unvote, then immediately after the unvote she comes back and doesnt put her vote back or even comment on VFP, but instead provides a fence-sitting stance on me. I'm town and MO, so it would make sense to me if scum want to get me limmed but dont want to get their hands dirty doing it.

Marci, Cyrus, Kitty is a team with no MO candidate and would explain why flea and I were leading tvt MOs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I could see Kyouko/Imaginality but I don't know how that equates to a Kitty scum team.

I also don't think most scum players have the stamina to post-by-posy refute you, SM.

If you find any games I was scum in ELo (there have been a few) vs where I was town in ELo you'll know this is definitely town me (at least I think you will). But that's not important right now

SS feels like a crystal ball or a mirror in games with him.

You either see your own reflection or a fragment on what's to come. So far I've just seen a mirror. Granted reping into a game with a day left to its already short ass deadline just to be turbolimmed has to fucking suck so like, sorry if that's the case SS - please post soon if you can.

For non game reasons I don't think mastina will be vocal by deadline. My push means means even less than it already did. Mmm...

SS/Kyuku/VFP must contain 1 town at least.

I'm not cool with leaving this to a 1/3 plurality roll. I will shift to -probably SS- if I must.

And I'm not cool at ALL with a no lim.

Also Nancy, this alt is mean to explore a different style with mafia. I may have the same tonal range as before, but I'm intentionally making meta a less effective approach to sort me.

Yes, I see. I tend to suck at doing that. I always think I’ll play extremely differently on an alt but usually tend to wind up playing the same.

This game is extremely frustrating. I feel like I’m always rushing and feel pressured to know exactly what I’m doing at deadline. D1 it was actually easy since Kitty was so obviously scum.

This reinforces the idea that at least 1 scum is a deepwolf, but i think another resides on VFP wagon.

This assumes that the ganeatate points to VFP town which I think is plausible. I feel like if scum could've quockhammered a townie, they wouldn't because thwy would knowingly get turbo limmed with deadlines this short and votes coming down to "3? You're dead."

I'm not following the reasoning, but assuming I can at some point follow it, do.you mean it points to the current VFO wagon or to the E-1 wagon from.Daystart?

When possible
1. Metadive Kyouko
2. idk why i made a list, it's only one thing

uhh

I don't know why a game is so chaotic to sort after a D1 scumflip and there NOT be 1 deepwolf.

But I don't think VFP wagon is all town at all.

Which VFP wagon? The start of D1 wagon that reached e-1 or the current one?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't follow Mastina's reads in congruence with her stance on the game. If she were lost or had little input, why are so many slots conftown to her? Why would she focus on a scumread that is already universally suspected (VFP) without really being in contact with VFP to deduce an alignment directly? More so, why tailor an associative between two more players (Cyrus/Me). The list feels convenient to navigate a wagon onto another player in the event of a VFP-townflip that I think is likely.

I'm thinking Mastina may have outside factors going on that could affect her gameplay (plus deadline is different than other games), but I've mainly seen Mastina-town as someone who is more vocal or direct in the thread with their voice - and I'm not seeing that here.

I also understand that I'm projecting in some degree... This is a play I personally see myself doing as scum.

I don’t see scum!Mastina voting Flea for MO then killing fae, I would think scum!Mastina would probably be voting a buddy. I think she actually did that in a game I was in - try to get her buddy into the top spot, so voting Flea for MO makes me also think this is her towngame.

Do you think scum!mastina votes.Flea for MO in the hopes that Flea will name mastina as fae's successor? I think mastina slipped she was unaware of the successor mechanic on D2 but it could have been intentional as I did suspect Flea was either scum, or had the support of a scum who believed they would succeed fae on D1.

Yes but you became MO not Flea, so why does scum!Mastina kill Flea then? Fae obviously had no MO to pass to her.

Maybe for the cop crumb, but I think what you're implying is right. Flea.would make a good townbeard for scum!mastina so the motive is not there

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It seems we all agree on cyrus but actually look at this post and look at marci's vote and unvote, then immediately after the unvote she comes back and doesnt put her vote back or even comment on VFP, but instead provides a fence-sitting stance on me. I'm town and MO, so it would make sense to me if scum want to get me limmed but dont want to get their hands dirty doing it.

Marci, Cyrus, Kitty is a team with no MO candidate and would explain why flea and I were leading tvt MOs.

okay queen come talk with me then!! lets chat

ur wording "immediately", it wasnt immediately actually
"fence sitting stance" im not surprised if it could be seen this way, but is scum the only people who fence sit? If i wanted you limmed i would've voted you, but instead i just wanted to talk to smoke and understand what theyre thinking more.

Oh yeah it is 7 hours later I didnt see the timestamps, just the posts were close in the iso. So yeah not immediately, my bad.

Scum is not the only ones to fence-sit but it is a convenient stance for scum as it allows a sort of "wait and see" that let's them blend in easier. I do see that you were trying to talk to smoke though, and that aligns with what you're saying now.

In 723, between the three candidates Imaginality was presenting (because they all had wagons, not that he necessarily SRed all 3), your tone seemed unsure because you were wanting to give S_S time to contribute, and preferred VFP over mastina because you TR mastina. I think a lot of players right now are saying things like that ("idk who it is but I prefer X over my townread").

Could you go into your mastina townread reasoning?

Do you think S_S has contributed enough to be town for toDay, or do you have a different opinion on them?

Now there's been a little bit longer to figure things out, do you have any new scumreads outside of the 3 Imaginality presented?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Could you go into your mastina townread reasoning?

im not sure how they usually play, but i think they're just straightup demotivated town trying their best this game. though they kinda mention how theyre not into the game alot (which could be seen as like trying to gain pity or something, not sure if thats the right word) i think theyre genuine in it.

Do you think S_S has contributed enough to be town for toDay, or do you have a different opinion on them?

i dont think they've contributed much for town, i just feel bad if they get elimmed right after subbing in..
819 835 is something i kinda expected them to say eventually, i just feel like they should be given a bit more time to get into things.

Now there's been a little bit longer to figure things out, do you have any new scumreads outside of the 3 Imaginality presented?

brain empty rn, would have to reread to come up with something confidently
tho like, the attacks on cyrus... like it specifically doesnt feel weird, but something around that chunk of time feels a bit weird..

Why did you expect 819, 835 out of S_S? Did you scumread misty before the replace?

By the attacks on cyrus, do you mean the wagon that just formed? Is there any person in particular saying weird things, or any pair of posters? There are 4 of us on him I think - if it was weird, who made it that way and why?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Expecting those posts seems odd, I dont see any reference to misty before in Marci's iso.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

13 posts in a row?

I'm not going to be able to keep up on quantity with you today, that's just nuts.

Here's some brief responses:

The comment you bolded and 'dafuq'ed was simply me observing that there wasn't much solid reasoning in the VFP wagon votes so as I saw it, if VFP flipped town the wagoners would be right more by chance than by brilliant deduction.

Your theory that Flea's comment gives me reason to kill Flea is hypocritical when you argued Flea's comment to Nancy wasn't a reason for you to kill Flea.

Ahem. First of all, caught for the wrong reasons (assuming you meant "if VFP flipped

scum

...")

As for the next point, I dont think this is hypocritical. The comments from flea aren't similar enough to constitute hypocrisy here.

Even if they were, this is a hydra slot and nancy argued the first point, and it seems you think you're addressing pooky here, so I dont think it's a fair assessment regardless of the content of the comments by flea

Distance has died ! they were a [/color]

Vanilla Townie

For the record I made a pretty damn high bid (but not 500) on Watcher because I was intending to watch Distance.

Unfortunately that 500 is like 99% likely to have been a scum bid because no competent townie would've bet their entire savings on Watcher and then NOT have watched Distance so the 1% is someone being idiotic enough to spend all of their money on that role and yet be blind enough to not realize that literally nobody else was going to be the N2 nightkill. (Because, yes. To be clear. If you didn't realize Distance was the kill last night the way I did and you bid that much on Watcher--you're an idiot. It's literally inexcusable to pick up that role and then blunder that badly by not watching the obvious nightkill because Distance WAS that obviously the nightkill. But most likely, 500 = scum bid.)

For that matter?

Either the 2x doctor is dead, scum, or incompetent--same reason as the above. Someone spent 250 on that role and it was 2x so they had a protection available last night. Not protecting Distance is inexcusable as a doctor, so very likely either they're dead or scum. (To reiterate again, literally nobody was more likely to be nightkilled than Distance, and you can use sheer basic fundamental logic to track why. On the D1 scum wagon, imaginality had suspicion on him for his terrible D2 pushes so he wasn't going to die; Smoke and Mirrors had terrible suspicion on them D2 so they weren't going to die; Gamma Emerald I recall having reason to think Gamma wouldn't die; VFP as the scumfuck he is certainly wasn't going to die; Something_Smart with the suspicion his slot had wasn't going to die; Cupcake Butterfly definitely wasn't going to die; ssbm was heavily suspected by Smoke and Mirrors so wasn't going to die; imaginality's shitpush on me meant I wasn't going to die. Of these, the only one I can't remember strongly is Gamma Emerald but between Gamma Emerald and Distance the choice for the N2 nightkill was very very very obviously Distance here so neither the doctor nor the watcher targeting Distance means they're either dead, scum, or incompetent; those are the only three options available and given the size of the bids, dead or scum are the most likely.)

But I digress.

VOTE: VFP

Back to doing this, which is what we

should

have done yesterday.

I think I've changed my mind on you. I'll give your vfp case a reread.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's reasonable to think the vfp e-1 wagon could have been all town, but all town wagons happen on town sometimes. I think we possibly had one end of day yesterday which would further explain the Distance kill - to leave as many wagoners of town alive as possible for a mislim.

It also makes sense to kill off the wagon if scum are kn the wagon, as it gives them more players to hide amongst. I felt like CB's comment about a town block forming was pretty gross but I was mostly looking to compromise and work with S&M on that wagon and CB was the player I had the most hesitation about, followed by S_S, who I was giving the benefit of the doubt because S&M.

I'm also really pinged by 957. I've played with town VFP recently and I feel like sniping like that is not who he is.

VOTE: VFP

Killing flea has the added benefit of appeasing my scumread on VFP which was still active at the end of d1. I was scumreads him because of the way he flipped off Alisae and onto Flea with seemingly no reason as though the agenda was to destabilize Alisae's play for MO. By showing me Flea was town it did make me cast that aside. If scum had killed either me or misty(S_S) on N1, it would have looked bad for VFP. Plus they might have thought doc would heal me and are playing around the 2-shot by waiting for N3

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think we need to play keepaway with the ninja role btw - assuming town got watcher we still have 1 each watcher and tracker shots available, and I will enhance the 2-shot tracker again toMorrow. Outside of daykill it is their strongest PR remaining.

So hold bids until midDay I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Killing flea has the added benefit of appeasing my scumread on VFP which was still active at the end of d1. I was scumreads him because of the way he flipped off Alisae and onto Flea with seemingly no reason as though the agenda was to destabilize Alisae's play for MO. By showing me Flea was town it did make me cast that aside. If scum had killed either me or misty(S_S) on N1, it would have looked bad for VFP. Plus they might have thought doc would heal me and are playing around the 2-shot by waiting for N3

Do you think scum would make a kill so blatantly not in their best interests?

No, but VFP is scum, so it is in his best interest when he was the alternative to Kitty

[ssbm_Kyouko]

410+90=500. Roleblocker sold for 410 on d1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm...

Spoiler: false meta

viewtopic.php?t=86642&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: SSBM

don't run away from me! You fake meta scum user >:|

I'm not running I started a new job yesterday, I just reread 2213 when you said I was using fake meta, in case I had remembered wrong. I didn't see anything like that snipish remark in that game. What posts remind you on a skim?

And S_S I will double check for you, iirc I did BP, JK, and both 1 and 2 shot trackers. Shit luck to have hit ninja but better than daykill

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's not a meta "case", I suppose you could call it a case if you wanted, but it's a comment on how that post pinged me as wrong for VFP. I just played a game with him where I don't recall him behaving like that -

it's undermining mastina as a player rather than making any comment on the case she presented.

(That's more what I would call a case^)

I agree with mastina's case, and I think I caught VFP early on with the MO votes.

If you want to read the whole of the linked game rather than VFPs ISO, which is what the link points to, you'll see I found scum!Italiano quite early on d1 and couldn't convince town to lim him and eventually let myself get distracted. He endgamed the town. It could be recency bias at work (I just caught scum in RVS and let them get away so I dont want to.let VFP get away now), but setting that aside, both of mastina's cases on VFP are well reasoned, and I still think there was an agenda to his early d1 posting.

I also believe the e-1 wagon on him was probably all town, and while that in itself is not reason that he is scum, it does make it more likely than any other random 5 person e-1 wagon, and on the lower chance that he is town, it gives us good info to work with.

This is not why we eliminate VFP though - we eliminate him for the case presented against him and for his reaction to it.

Pedit:also lmao caught for the wrong reasons again, Imaginality and VFP just an echo chamber

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: SSBM

don't run away from me! You fake meta scum user >:|

I'm not running I started a new job yesterday, I just reread 2213 when you said I was using fake meta, in case I had remembered wrong. I didn't see anything like that snipish remark in that game. What posts remind you on a skim?

And S_S I will double check for you, iirc I did BP, JK, and both 1 and 2 shot trackers. Shit luck to have hit ninja but better than daykill

Let's not try and play off the snark in that comment to these.
I love that you're actually trippling down after that too. I still declare that there is q00% scum in us. Do you, SSBM?

I too believe that making 3 posts on a suspected player is a scum read.

Imagine if this was factually true.
I'd be impressed then.

Well the only way you can say this with any certainty is if you're scum or you have a guilty on me, and it's mechanically impossible for anyone to guilty me this game because I'm town.

So are you just claiming or what?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I just went back to check my sent messages and I enhanced both trackers, doctor, and bp. I considered enhancing JK, even asked the mod if the JK could stop me from enhancing abilities (it can't), but went with doctor because JK could stop a town PR, like the 2nd shit of the AD or the tracker (assuming one or both were auctioned)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Typical, SSBM won't say that there's 100% scum within us. Sounded so sure just before!
We got ourselves a scummy mcscum bag over here!

And most people know I'll always trade for scum, so I'm not worried about being the lim here, as long as you are the next lim on a town flip tomorrow.

I'm not any less sure now than I was before. If you are going to say there is 100% scum between us, then you are either lying or scum. I'm happy to eliminate scum, but would prefer not to lose... assuming successful town kills the next 2 nights... that would 7 town straight if you're lying. That puts us in 5 player limlo after we got scum d1. I'm not trying to throw that away.

So are you lying or are you scum? Why do you scumread Misty?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That's a lie.

I didnt realize you had access to my PMs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@mod, question about gravedigger/auction mechanics:

if a player is eliminated by plurality, not nightkill, and has also won the bid on an item, would they have "died with the ability" for the purposes of a gravedigger result, or does the dead player technically gain the ability/win the bid after they are dead?

Basically asking, without asking you to confirm kitty won anything, or that Marci actually targeted kitty:

If kitty won cop d1 and was gravedigged last night, would the gravedigger have seen that kitty died with cop?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^or if anyone read through the entirety of some of he other OMB games, did they see this come up?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So are you lying or are you scum? Why do you scumread Misty?

Lying about what?
And I already posted on Misty. At least pretend to be reading the game.

Lying about there 100% being scum between us. Why are you scumreading Misty slot?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And I agree it would make sense for gravedigger to see the ability if the target won it as they eliminated but wanted to be sure, because if the gravedigger would see it, it means either town won the cop, or scum outside of kitty won it, meaning they have less money left than we've been assuming.

After this gets cleared up I think we can request anyone that bid on cop, but did not win cop, on d1, to claim the amount they bid. This will let us know how much scum must have spent to win it if they did win it. Since we had another day to bid yesterday this doesnt give away who has money left, I think it's safe but haven't thought a whole lot about it yet as I'm at work. Anyone who sees issues with this let it be known

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So that leaves (removing Cyrus as I think town).

mastina
Cupcake
Mistyx
marci

Seems to me mastina misty/S_S and marci and town, so did you throw your buddy in this poe for cover in case one of you flips?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lying about there 100% being scum between us. Why are you scumreading Misty slot?

Lol wut? Scum trolling because caught I guess?
598

I'm actually going to just unvote for now. I've gone back and forth on both slots and I feel like the alignments will become apparent if vfp and mastina can hash this out on their own.

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I feel like all I learned yesterday is that S&M are probtown and I dont want to tunnel again

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma what are your reads?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Reading your iso I feel like I'm listening to a sports commentator who is filling a lull in the action by having unrelated conversations with his co-caster

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Gamma

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Only everyone is your co-caster

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The one time you felt "in the game" was around when you voted me and that felt a little wrong at the time, felt like you should have been able to read me, which is why I posted in bold about it in one of my walls with S&M

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

is this what you mean by the thing you posted in your wall earlier?
Why does it not feel like you cared to do anything about this until now?

Cuz I haven't, I've been tunneled and I feel like i cant remember anybody else paying attention to you except to say you're town for being on the kitty wagon - and that's a reasonable assumption, but idk you seem quiet. I did try to find some of our old games and maybe this is nai or town for you, but I think you need some attention from someone just in case

[ssbm_Kyouko]

S_S, mastina, did either of you bid more than 325 on cop D1?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And Gamma what feels off about the picks? Are you talking about the ones I enhanced or the ones that showed up?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Regarding mastina, I want her and VFP to interact today because I think it's TvS - this is why I'm backing off of VFP right now, because I dont want to do the same thing with him that I did with S&M yesterday.

Marci I agree is genuine in all her posting, and VFP is supposed to know her scum game really well according to her. I dont think he's voiced concerns on the slot so if he is town she probably is too. Independent of that though she is still strongly town.

I looked for Gamma games but our games are like 4-5 years old and he seems to have a different playstyle but in 2213 I saw that as town he was always on the final wagon that resulted in elim the first 3 Days, on d4 he was on the counter to me, andres, when I faked a guilty on andres as town. I was hard defending Gamma and I got limmed. D5 Gamma was elimmed in limlo. So what I'm saying is it's consistent with his last town game to be voting the way he is. I just feel like he was more actively engaged in the last game than here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think ssbm_Kyouko deliberately buddied me a bit especially on D2.

Do you have examples?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And Gamma what feels off about the picks? Are you talking about the ones I enhanced or the ones that showed up?

Ones you enhanced

N1 enhances:
2-shot Watcher - I entertained removing this instead of removing tracker when slotting in gravedigger, but reasoned that a watcher would be able to protect me or my replacement indirectly by threatening to watch us. I didnt think I could afford BP so on the chance I did survive, this investigative could protect me. If distance had spent his money and also could not afford BP, this protection would have extended to him.
2-shot Gravedigger - I don't remember what my reasoning was here. I think I wanted to have it available to check Kitty, but that seems like not a good target in retrospect. Assuming Marci is town though, this turns out to have been a very useful target, so we got lucky I guess. I was going to put 2-shot tracker here immediately after seeing the kitty flip, but rethought in the morning and went with gravedigger.
2-shot Auction Detective - I sent this with the intent to enhance 1-shot AD the following day. I dont think 2 ADs on the same day is that good because you're getting info on who.else bought AD possibly, and ideally you would want to identify who was buying on a day when there are pro-scum roles.
1-shot Bulletproof - I expected it was still possible i would die and chose this because whether or not i died, it would have been good to have a self-protection available for my successor. Overnight on N1 this was Distance.

I switched my successor to VFP during my shitfight with S&M. I have changed it since.

N2 enhances:
1-shot Tracker - I chose both trackers because they are the last investigative remaining after chance-rolling the 1-shot AD
2-shot Tracker
1-shot Doctor - we're out of doctor shots now presumably so enhancing this now gives us the power back and keeps scum second-guessing if a doc will stop their ideal target
1-shot Bulletproof - same idea, but as more people are out of money now it's less likely my successor happens to have the money to afford this. I considered enhancing Jailkeeper instead of this since it can also be a doctor, but I didnt want a roleblock to land on any of the investigative from yesterday or on the trackers from today

Got a meeting coming up, but theres all my reasoning on picks

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think ssbm_Kyouko deliberately buddied me a bit especially on D2.

Do you have examples?

On a reread I retract this. Maybe it was Cupcake I was thinking of?

Wtf godfather has bids?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think the numbers have something to say here with the claim info we have but I'll need some time to work with pencil and paper

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Vfp you are the 500 on Ninja right?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So unless town wanted to save 1 coin which would be strange, the godfather looks to be scum trying to convince town to spend 500 on a role that currently has no effect (I would hope so).

Let's put aside the idea that any townie would be dumb enough to bid 499 on godfather.
For scum to bid for it makes little sense because cop was a one shot role and if town had got cop it's extremely likely we'd have used the shot already.
So therefore scum wouldn't be worried about cop and wouldn't feel the need to get godfather.

My explanation for the godfather bid is it's scum trying to make us believe they think town have cop. So, in contrast, I think cop was likely won by scum and any cop claim for the rest of the game is extremely likely a fake claim.

Yeah both of these are right to some degree I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Any way you slice it, it seems scum are buying godfather atm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm just blown away by how dumb it is

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I dont think they should, just identifies that their wallet is empty and draws the kill onto someone with a useful role and/or money

Pedit: was kinda upset when I saw you claim it since I didnt post right away but reading whole post i think i get what you're saying regarding the money - that's part of why i claimed what i bid on hitman in "twilight", so scum would be less likely to kill me once they knew I had very little money, a useless pr, and hadn't voiced any TRs.

I had an idea - we already know cyrus didnt win the cop because of his 125-all split. Of the dead, that leaves flea and distance. If Marci digs Distance tonight, and he doesnt have cop, it means Flea won it, unless someone has been holding on to the cop shot or has an inno they're saving. This seems unlikely. Although I'm not sure if digging will show he had the 1-shot cop if he already used it the night he died. I dont know if using the abilities counts as "losing" them since they're x-shot.

The benefit to digging distance over flea is he was around for d2 and he may have died with a power from d2 or d1 that could help us sort out fakeclaims. If we hit scum today though they're probably a better target to dig.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think scum bought either the 2-shot AD or the watcher. Spending up to 500 still leaves them 300 to outbid any townie that has won any role already, as well as leaving the last scum with the money to buy the daykill if it appears. They wouldn't want to let town get 4 shots of investigative power so late in the game, so I think they had to bite the bullet yesterDay. I haven't died yet because of the money I think, because scum is, as someone coined the term, "coinhunting" in this game.

Gamma didnt switch to VFP day 1. Scum!Gamma only refuses to switch if he is partnered with VFP I think. If Gamma and VFP both bid these amounts today the scumteam can no longer outbid everyone for the daykill.

This means gamma isn't scum

with

VFP.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@S_S why would that be an awkward position?

Because if marci is scum then possibly Kitty got the cop and she can fake confirm herself by saying Distance had the cop and clearly inno'd her.

I might locktown you for this as I didnt expect anyone else to have figured that out, and I doubt scum is trying to figure that out unless Marci is scum. I dont think there's any reason for you to bus scum!marci here either

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Cupcake Butterfly

You're quiet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also ftr I do not think Marci is scum, I've reread her several times because she keeps saying things that make me think she's using me as a townbeard/buddying me. Every time I've reread her the posts feel genuine.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ngl, not a fan of marcistar's push on S_S

Vfp, why vote Imaginality now? To prove you 2 arent scum together?

@everyone, if mastina flipped red right now, who would her partner be? I'm entertaining a theory right now of scum!mastina town!vfp and I think I see a likely partner, wanna know what others think, especially curious what S&M, Gamma, and Imaginality think as members of the Kitty wagon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Maybe from early play there is enough ignorance between CB Mastina but I think if you iso them together you might reconsider

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My poe rn I think is CB, mastina, S_S. I think both are in this, outside possibility of imaginality or VFP

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mastina didnt outright lie but said misleading things about her bids today. Said she never bid more than a couple hundred or so on anything but also said she put a very high bid on watcher and the 2 statements dont jive, but the one about not bidding a lot on one thing wasn't an absolute

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I dont understand associating me with Imaginality. I also dont understand vfp+Imaginality. Me because I know I'm town but also I feel like I've had transparent interactions with him throughout the game. Also the money situation. I bought hitman for 426, he claims to have bought roleblocker for 410. I think he can only lie about that as scum if another scum bought it. We know from Marci that Kitty did not buy anything. Unless the team is Marci/Imaginality, it is clear that as scum Imaginality can't outbid town for daykill. This makes it unlikely for him to be teamed with Gamma or VFP either because of their current bids.

This is why Imaginality is on the outs of my poe. The only partner that makes sense with him is Marci imo. It's possible he's with any of the 3 in my main poe, but I see other pairings as more likely, like mastina/S_S

[ssbm_Kyouko]

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja, so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Gamma claimed he is bidding 499 on GF and VFP claimed he is bidding 500 on ninja

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mastina didnt outright lie but said misleading things about her bids today. Said she never bid more than a couple hundred or so on anything but also said she put a very high bid on watcher and the 2 statements dont jive, but the one about not bidding a lot on one thing wasn't an absolute

When we have 500 how the FUCK is 200 NOT 'pretty damn high'?

It's literally nearly half of what we have at our disposal. 40% of what you have is pretty damn high. How would it NOT be?

I Bid 200 on 1x Cop;
I Bid 150 on 2x Doctor;
I Bid 11 on 1x Hitman;
I Bid 11 on 1x Roleblocker;
I bid 40 on 2x Gravedigger;
I bid 10 on 1x Auction Detective;
I bid 200 on 2x Watcher;
I bid 10 on 2x Auction Detective;
I Bid 100 on Jailkeeper initially;
I Bid 50 on Tracker initially;
I Bid 25 on Ninja initially;
I Bid 5 on Godfather initially;

I've raised bids to unspecified amounts on the non-500 items, which are fairly high bids in their own right.

I've been bidding ~300-425ish (I've not mathed it out) each day, with the intent of having some money to spare if I win all my bids but to not go all-in on getting any individual power. Which has led to me being outbid by people because apparently people are willing to spend 300+ on items and blow through their economy.

VOTE: Cupcake Butterfly
I prefer VFP > Cupcake Butterfly, but Cupcake Butterfly > most of the other eliminations > me and there's votes there so.

I thought 400 would be "pretty damn high", 350 at the very least. And from the size of winning bids I think everyone would think something similar. There are only 16 roles.and 13 players so most people will only get 1, maybe 2 roles, unless people die with wallets. And most likely, scum are the ones that end up with multiple roles anyways.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: CB

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm really surprised that imaginality compiled that vote count and then didn't vote CB.

That seems like the reasonable play as both alignments, but especially as scum.

I agree. I'm going to make him vote cb if he wants to live the tiebreak

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think the reason he doesnt vote cb is they are partnered

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think town just votes CB. Why be afraid to self-preserve over a lurker actually? If you're town you just fuck the lurker, your contributions are worth more

VOTE: Imaginality

If this is red I need to reconsider Marci

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m here
I feel like the points against mastina actually have a good amount of merit, so I’d be open to that

What about Imaginality making that vc and not voting CB here so close to deadline? Looks scared to wolf out in the open to me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think town just votes CB. Why be afraid to self-preserve over a lurker actually? If you're town you just fuck the lurker, your contributions are worth more

VOTE: Imaginality

If this is red I need to reconsider Marci

if hes scum, ill vote myself cuz man i would look like a big clown right there

I think the reason he doesnt vote cb is they are partnered

Maybe, but that's not a reason to kill him first.

Yeah that was dumb, it's quite late. The reason to kill him first is he made that vc and then didnt vote cupcake

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Was gonna reply to Marci that anyone with a wallet left could be his partner I think, as that player could buy daykill

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think because it looks scummy they dont do it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma, S_S, and Marci are here and can influence by voting CB to save you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Meant mastina not Marco, but I think Marco is here too

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Autocorrect got me, sorry marci*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Imaginality unless someone votes CB

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm glad we got stances at least

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Was gonna reply to Marci that anyone with a wallet left could be his partner I think, as that player could buy daykill

was his rb claim ever ever cced?

would scum have had the money for both cop + rb and then still save for daykill?

would he fake claim rb as scum, with possibility the real rber could still be out there?

i think liming imaginality is a miss VOTE: cupcake butterfly

They can only have money for it if you are scum with him and lied about kitty getting cop. Then you still have money for daykill because 800-225 > 500

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also he only fakeclaims rb as scum if he knows another scum got it. That could have been kitty again if you are his partner.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Or if he knows a dead townie had the role which again points to you as the gravedigger as his partner. So either he is town or openly he bought roleblocker as scum and he 400 thing was always a guise to get roleblocker and appear town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think jailing vfp makes sense here as he is the only scum that can dodge tracker/watcher.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mastina and vfp never die regardless of alignment I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think I dont die for being a dirty flippy floppy, surely I will be pushed again tomorrow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I enhanced these last night

2-shot Tracker
1-shot Doctor
1-shot Bulletproof
2-shot Neighborizer

Neighborizer is just filler, didnt want to enhance commuter in case scum used it to dodge something. Rest should be self-explanatory. I went with 2-shot rather than 1 just in case someone had a use for it, like an AD that wanted to out results via the hood, but figured it didnt really matter either way considering how late in the game it is

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I enhanced these last night

2-shot Tracker
1-shot Doctor
1-shot Bulletproof
2-shot Neighborizer

Neighborizer is just filler, didnt want to enhance commuter in case scum used it to dodge something. Rest should be self-explanatory. I went with 2-shot rather than 1 just in case someone had a use for it, like an AD that wanted to out results via the hood, but figured it didnt really matter either way considering how late in the game it is

[ssbm_Kyouko]

(That said the presence of a hitman means that we may have trouble there. I'm hoping that the scum cannot pick up both the tracker and the hitman so that one goes to town and that town player can use it to ensure redundancy with imaginality.)

Basically my hope here is that if scum snipe the hitman for the rb immunity, they cannot snipe the tracker, and that the player with the tracker can thus use it to make just as much of a useful result as the rb;

If the scum snipe the tracker for the prevention of the investigative with one scum alive, they cannot snipe the hitman.

At least, that is the hope.

I think scum bought at least one of watcher, 2-shot AD, so it's possible if we have enough players with wallet left they can make scum choose between the two. I think we need a popcorn full claim starting with S_S, everyone else has info out about what they've bid and when, and with the info that is out it is clear that town cannot outbid scum on both roles, probably not either role. Smoke claims last because they've already outed they have AD, so if they won the 2-shot it is best to let them claim last to catch anyone lying.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh for now
VOTE: S_S

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So that leaves (removing Cyrus as I think town).

mastina
Cupcake
Mistyx
marci

Rereading the game right now and bookmarking this

[ssbm_Kyouko]

S&M, VFP, Imaginality: why do you think Distance was NKed? Read his ISO, consider the gamestate D2, what do you think?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

^and Gamma too, also should answer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

1292 did raise my hackles a bit too.
I'm not convinced scum openly buys ninja for 500 on D2 though.

On the flip side I'm still wondering whether we get five town on the D2 VFP wagon if VFP is town. Wagon was {Mastina - Distance - marcistar - Cyrus62 - ssbm_Kyouko} so if you and mastina are town then to my mind it's highly likely ssbm or VFP are scum rather than both town.
Hmm...
VOTE: Unvote

I wasn't on the e-1wagon d2, I voted vfp with Misty/S_S just before end of d1, when kitty seemed to be the 'default' plurality lim. Then I voted him early on in D3, don't think I was voting him at all d2 but I don't recall.

I did post the players that were on the e-1 wagon though, if you iso me and ctrl-F for "my count" you will find the wagon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also am unsure of who might be S_S's partner. I think, if they are scum, their partner will not be found by associatives.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@VFP, 2 questions:

Why are you voting me?
Why did you use your power last Night?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

idek why he specified he used the power

If you had to guess, why would you say he claimed to have used it last night?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm back.

I told the mod that I would be out of town. I was hoping he would mention it.

Can you start off a popcorn fullclaim for us, where S&M will claim last?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I won the 1x jailkeeper, and I jailkept marcistar last night.

i think we should trust mastina unless theres a cc or anything. i tried digging and it failed, dont see anything else to explain this.

I didn't target anyone.
So either the jailkeeper jailkept scum, or jailkept scum's target, or the doctor protected town, or the scum no-killed.

i don't think its very likely scum no killed, they 100% need to get the number of very trusted townies down to get a shot at winning (and before more people can be thought of in a "near confirmed" way), not killing at this state would be detrimental for them.

mastina

, who do u think vfps partner would be?

gamma emerald, something_smart, vfp <- scums within these, maybe possibly ssbm_kyouko could be, but that seems unlikely to me.

smoke

, who do u think?

imaginality

, who do u think?
(anyone else is welcome to answer as well)

I still think something_smart would be the more likely to flip scum, but im fine with vfp as well.

I tracked Kyouku last night, he didn’t go anywhere.

Well this is why I wanted s&m to claim last, I figured out they won tracker, but if they tracked me it doesnt matter what order we claim in anymore I think.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My full claim is already out I think, but to recap I bought hitman at 426 on D1 and on D2 I bid 52 and 22 after the halfway point, on 1-shot AD and gravedigger. D3 I made no bids because all of the items were above 74 at the midway point so I couldn't win any. I imagine the same thing will happen toDay.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Actually I guess order does still matter as scum can try to fill in the blanks.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

People shouldn't be spending 301 on hitman when there's a day vig tomorrow.

Today is the last auction, only 16/20 roles get auctioned across 4 days

[ssbm_Kyouko]

S_S, why spend the full 500 on watcher if you didn't plan on using it right away? Using all of your money (if you're town) implies to me that you really wanted the power for some reason. What were you hoping to find when you chose to watch S&M - answer with the player(s) and the action(s) you thought might have been coming their way, and explain why you thought that.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VFP, why did you use the Ninja power last night and why bother announcing it this morning?

VOTE: VFP