Mini 2254 | Subreddit uPick | Fin
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Proxy vote to: Lady Lambdadelta
I'll vote whoever LLD does (even if it's me).
Peace offering: I promise never to vote LLD prior to D3-at-earliest (barring guilties on her). I reserve right to state suspicion, but promise not to act on it, and the proxy vote is proof of commitment to this promise.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
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- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I badly wronged LLD. I thought it'd end that game; it didn't, as LLD's (valid) grief carried over into multiple future games. So, with ~D4 as lylo, I'm promising not to vote her until a day before, at minimum. Thus, peace offering.In post 19, skitter30 wrote:
ok, whyIn post 17, mastina wrote:Peace offering: I promise never to vote LLD prior to D3-at-earliest (barring guilties on her). I reserve right to state suspicion, but promise not to act on it, and the proxy vote is proof of commitment to this promise.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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(Basically, I legit am scared to play with LLD now, not for her->me, but me->her, with me ruining her games. I was worried me /inning would cause her to /out. So I need to doIn post 22, mastina wrote:
I badly wronged LLD. I thought it'd end that game; it didn't, as LLD's (valid) grief carried over into multiple future games. So, with ~D4 as lylo, I'm promising not to vote her until a day before, at minimum. Thus, peace offering.In post 19, skitter30 wrote:
ok, whyIn post 17, mastina wrote:Peace offering: I promise never to vote LLD prior to D3-at-earliest (barring guilties on her). I reserve right to state suspicion, but promise not to act on it, and the proxy vote is proof of commitment to this promise.something.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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sm?In post 42, T3 wrote:except when she's sm
There's 3 mafia. I can scumhunt without voting LLD, regardless of my read on her. (Also my proxy vote's not permanent.)In post 44, The Bombay wrote:If you think that someone is a member of the mafia, voting them out is playing to your win condition if you are a member of the town.
Dead serious, albeit accidentally:
Imeantto include names of players who hadn't posted (which would've lessened seriousness somewhat), but since I forgot...
VOTE: The Bombay
(proxy-LLD, but also, scumread anyway, readslist next post)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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In post 127, Dwlee99 wrote:Maybe a flavor claim would be in orderSpoiler: These Images' Common Thread
Rogue > Suripoko > jjh927 > LLD > skitter30T++:
T3T:
StrangeMatterT?:
N-T:Dwlee99
ShiroN:
N-S:Ivan
SirCakez (always) > The BombayS:-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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What 13p mini theme doesn't have 3 mafia? It's a safe assumption.In post 174, jjh927 wrote:Also I don't think 3 mafia is confirmed?
I don't think their reads are genuine. Their reads all look faked, surface-level, and forced. It looks more like trying to appear as scumhunting, rather than being genuine scumhunting.In post 173, jjh927 wrote:What's your line here on Bombay then? Guessing it's different to LLD's-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I have no idea where a lack of Rogue townreads would come from.In post 262, T3 wrote:I have no idea where the townreads on Rogue are coming from.
Gut, which feels appropriate. You looked vaguely town by gut, but not strongly enough to be locktown.In post 244, StrangeMatter wrote:Why you have me as town but unsure here?
All of them? 44, 83, 107, 162. Did I miss any? BecauseIn post 178, Rogue wrote:Which reads in particular, mastina?allof those suck, and are precisely what I said: I don't think any of their reads are genuine. Their reads all look faked, surface-level, and forced. It looks more like trying to appear as scumhunting, rather than being genuine scumhunting.
While I'm not convinced, a promise is a promise;
VOTE: Dwlee99
It's at leastplausibleDwlee could be scum. (Dwlee's mostly a null, the townread I had was mostly Bombay's shitty Dwlee vote.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Respectfully, you also think LLD is scum, and I very much don't, so. You and I seem to be on entirely opposite pages.In post 296, skitter30 wrote:mastina i gotta say i disagree with you on the bombay's reads looking forced, and i'm not really into this whole vote-proxy thing either-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Perhaps my usage of the term 'reads' was too restrictive.In post 346, The Bombay wrote:44 was not a read. It was a response. I don't like the idea of the proxy vote, but I was not saying that you doing the proxy vote was scummy.
83 was not a read. It was a joke vote, because I got rick rolled. That was made explicit in post 85 and again in 87.
I didn't strictly mean reads, so much as "content of posts".
Your 44 and 83 might not be reads (and yes I am fully aware they were not reads)--but the content of the posts still fit the same pattern as your stated reads. As a reiterating, I found both 44 and 83? To be: not genuine. Looks faked, surface-level interactions, and forced. More like trying to appear as town(/scumhunting), rather than being genuine. I linked them because they still fit the pattern shown even if they are strictly speaking not reads in of themselves. They still show the lack of genuine depth I'd expect from a town player.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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It's more likely than you'd think, statistically speaking.In post 407, jjh927 wrote:Well, FYI, Mastina frequently memeclaims mason, particularly if she is in a neighbourhood that is not a masonry, although inevitably also in the event that she was an actual mason or similarly functioning role (however the likelihood of this scenario is statistically low)
I've plenty of associatives even while having my vote proxied to LLD. You can see them in my iso.In post 366, Shiro wrote:Also books says Mastina is bad, trying to hide herself and all associates behind voting only with LLD.
Yes--Rogue doing the joke was town indicative because the entire thing was natural and lighthearted and fit the perspective of a town player who was just vibing.In post 359, The Bombay wrote:So Rouge made not one, not two, but three rickroll style posts 81, 95, 102, and I responded with joke anger at having been successfully rickrolled. Rogue is your towniest of town reads, but me joking back around with him is part of your evidence that I am the scummiest player in the game?
Your response to the joke was stilted, artificial, and forced. An attempt to match the vibe, rather than being a part of the vibe (Rogue).-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Spoiler: This is too long and I'm too lazy right now to make it more succinct so I'm going to spoil it
I'm not ignoring the context.In post 476, skitter30 wrote:i think she's ignoring the context of multiple rickrolls to call bombay's rogue vote 'bad' when it makes sense in context.
I'm saying that Bombay's justification of it still doesn't make it fit even in context. The vote makessensein context. That doesn't make itfitin context. I'm not sure how to word that but I've made it fairly clear. My point isn't that "the vote shouldn't have been made at all"; my point is that "the vote doesn't look like it came from town". It wasn't the presence of the vote (a vote in that way makes sense in the context); it was theway it was handled(it didn't fit in the context).
In post 499, The Bombay wrote:I was in a "monkery" with Mastina, and she did not claim to be a mason (or a monk for that matter). To be fair, it makes more sense to not claim it when you are actually in one.
This is a pointless observation. If she fake claims it enough for you to say this, it is moot. I just found it interesting in an NAI kind of way.
~LukeHURT: The Bombay
To be clear, this is a scumclaim in of itself from Luke. Both in portrayal of that game and in content from Luke. I don't believe this is a town-Lukewarm.
I genuinely wouldn't be removing my vote from Bombay if not for the promise to LLD but I'm so tempted to break itjustbecause of how strong my scumread on Bombay is. (To be clear, I'd have voted Bombay even without the LLD sheep because the only other vote I'd have made would be SirCakez but my Bombay scumread has always been stronger.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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(sorry this post's alarmingly long, not sure how to cut it down tho)
That implies a scum perspective.In post 515, skitter30 wrote:I think that once she gave the explanation, she kinda had to stick with it even if lld moved on
To give a viewpointnotbiased towards scum, I had a genuine scumread on Bombay that happened to, by pleasant coincidence, overlap with my promise to LLD.
While I moved my vote as part of my promise to LLD, without the promise, I'd have remained on Bombay, because they are my strongest scumread.
You can find the answer in my very first post where I give the promise to LLD:In post 515, skitter30 wrote:I'm not sure why she felt the need to say she had independant reasons (maybe she didnt want to look like she sheeping lld too much? Idk)
I reserve the right to state suspicion. While that isIn post 17, mastina wrote:I reserve right to state suspicion, but promise not to act on itlargelyin regards to LLD, it is notspecificto her.
I reserve the right to state suspicion on players LLD is not voting; I reserve the right to state a lack of belief in the player LLD is voting to be scum (I would sheep LLD if she voted, say, Rogue right now even though Rogue is my top townread); I reserve the right to specify that I have independent reasons for scumreading the slot LLD votes while sheeping her.
It's hard to get more town than Suripoko has from 7 posts at the time. From Suripoko's first post I already had a townread. The Tiger-bad, the decision to post in images (which is obviously not a real post restriction), the view that skitter is scum (while I disagree, I don't see that perspective ever coming from the hydra if they were scum), 35, and the vote on me (which I know to be wrong but I don't see Pooky as doing if he's scum).
Now granted, it's not as strong of a read as I'dprefer, but for a D1 that's less than 48 hours old? What amounts to a Gut++ read (not just Gut because there's reasons to it but also more gut than not) is more than I can say for most players.
I think jjh is town but this is D1 and jjh can do this much as scum on D1; I think LLD is town but LLD is top-tier as a scum player and this is within her scum range (well everything is but this would be pathetically easy for her); I think skitter is town but skitter's lack of synergy with my reads could indicate her being scum. I townread all of them, but they're ordered by the strength of how strong I think they are by probability vs. possibility. By probability vs. possibility, Suripoko's townread is stronger because while Pooky is versatile as scum, I don't think he's capable of doing what he's done here as scum. It'spossiblegiven the low number of posts and choice of posting method, but notprobable.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Still town given the timing.In post 535, skitter30 wrote:Fwiw i'm like 95% sure the tiger bad was a meme and not indicative of what they actually thoght abt my alignment at the time, but i could be wrong
I didn't say it's a vote that doesn't come from town.In post 533, skitter30 wrote:*why* is it not a vote that doesnt come from town?
I said it was a vote whichdidn'tcome from town.
It's a vote that plausiblycouldcome from town, but thewayit was done makes it be a scum vote, rather than a town vote.
I really don't know how to explain it and you keep on trying to phrase it in a way that takes away from my point and frame it in a context that's different from the actual context.
Because it's an incredibly un-Luketown analysis to make, basically.In post 533, skitter30 wrote:*why* is that a scumclaim from luke? Why is this not something town-luke would think?
Spoiler: Press X to Doubt on Lukewarm:-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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VOTE: SirCakez
Not as good as Bombay imo but hey I'm down to wagon my second scumread.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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V/LA 48 hours
(Closing Wednesday into opening Thursday = can't post at all on Wednesday.)
Won't be able to post at all on Wednesday, but I'll force posts later tonight and on Thursday regardless of how much I don't feel like them.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Outside of the spoiler tho, I'll add that one thingSpoiler: Response to Ivanhaschanged overnight, and it is in part from this post: Ivan moves from Nullscum to a proper scumread. Not SirCakez/Bombay levels, but also more than a scumlean. SirCakez/Bombay are confscum/strong scum, but Ivan's still scum.
The proof is in the usage of the word 'obnoxious' rather than anything indicating a view of Suripoko being scum. 'Obnoxious' is actually a descriptor you use whenyou believe(or, more damningly,)you knowthe slot to be town.
This word usage is literally a scumclaim from Ivan, because it's a scumslip of knowing Suripoko to be town.In post 678, That Idiot Ivan wrote:No probing into your previous strong town read of Suripoko despite theirhammer.obnoxious
Add in the defense of SirCakez (who is lockscum), and you've got a damn good candidate for final scum. Speaking of which tho:
I'm liking my SirCakez vote a whole lot more than I already was, thanks for the idea jjh. <3In post 635, SirCakez wrote:I need to go back to the drawing board here because I felt pretty good that Dwlee was scum and obv not
It drives me crazy that they were lying about the chess and maybe that's what I was feeling there-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Note this wording, too.In post 685, SirCakez wrote:Ok but regardless of whose to blame that hammer still sucked
'still sucked'.
If Suripoko were scum, the hammer would not have sucked--it'd be Suripoko playing to wincon.
A hammer sucking implies the hammerer is the same alignment of the player being hammered--town.
Both Ivan and SirCakez have used words with zero connotations to scumminess/scumness of the slot and which actually have the opposite connotation--implying Suripoko to be town.
Coincidence?
I think not!
There's a damn good reason I think they're both scum here.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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(Note, while technically Rogue's usage of 'awful' for the hammer also fits the same category as Ivan's 'obnoxious' and SirCakez's 'sucked', Rogue isn't lumped with them because Rogue's not voting off of it being an awful hammer, Rogue's voting off of it being an awful hammerwith prior experiencewith Pooky and awful hammers. SirCakez and Ivan however do not have that.)
Might I bring you to the point that both SirCakez and Ivan have basically scumslipped that they know Suripoko is town and that Ivan is defending SirCakez and that both are voting Suripoko when there's plurality rules in effect in spite of them having used words which betray their knowledge of Suripoko being town?In post 709, StrangeMatter wrote:Suspecting there’s likely one (two has potential but not as likely) of {Rogue, SirCakez, That Idiot Ivan} as said above. I want to look more into these right now, though continuing on a conversation about this is pointless and a waste of time.
I tell you, they're both scum.
That Bombay is voting you after you've fingered 2/3 should tell you who the third is.
It's literally {SirCakez, Ivan, The Bombay} here as the scumteam.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I realize you asked everyone to claim but I was actually planning on not claiming it openly, not yet at least.In post 778, jjh927 wrote:Do you have box
But since you probably don't want to wait until like D3 to receive the news, no, I've not had a box at any point.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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skitter had me as scum--that makes me disinclined to believe that scum killed her for read accuracy and inclined to believe they killed her for being one of the towniest slots in the game, but less likely to be protected just because she's not accurate in her reads.In post 813, The Bombay wrote:When your reads and Skitter were on "entirely opposite pages," I feel like you might want to question your reads when they choose to kill Skitter.
And yet you said 'obnoxious' without saying 'scummy'.In post 783, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Even if I didn't reject your entire premise that I'm allowed to find something simultaneously scummy and obnoxious
If it was scummyandobnoxious, why didn't you SAY "scummy and obnoxious" or some variant thereof? You said 'obnoxious', and only obnoxious. You said nothing of the scumminess.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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In post 826, That Idiot Ivan wrote:My role allowed a neighborhood to form with two other players last night that persists into today. By foregoing posting there until night ended, I was able to get a parity cop result on the other two players. LLD and Shiro share an alignment.I am soft-counterclaiming this.
Not a hard-counterclaim, but:
I am a communicative role, similar to a neighborizer (albeit not as strong).
Through my role,I know that there is another investigative player in the game(who claimed to me specifically). This player I 100% trust to be town absolutely.
Between Bombay's claim, Ivan's claim, the investigative player that I know, and Dwlee, there's no way all four of them are town, and I believe Ivan is scum specifically because an ungated parity cop that cannot be stopped, when Dwlee was already a basically ungated full cop? Not something which is going to exist.
I believe that Ivan's role was designed as a town role, so I believe the parity cop is real. But while I believe Ivan's realclaiming a parity cop, I don't believe Ivan is town from it.
I was planning on cheekily claiming if there was ever heavy suspicion on me, "I guarantee you that my role is a town one, I can mod-confirm it to be so". And then pointing this out. But since Ivan has claimed a Parity Cop, I need to point this out: there was a mod post saying "all roles are designed as town, and then modified as needed". (I can't find it, I think morph either edited it out or deleted it, but it was there during the pregame, everyone who checked the thread then can confirm. OH WAIT I found it.)
Alignments are given AFTER roles are designed.In post 186, morph the cat wrote:Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments.
You can have a Doctor, Cop, and Vig, all designed as town roles, end up as being scum roles--and then, still as the Doctor, Cop, and Vig, be modified as the Scum Doctor, Scum Cop, and scum Vig, to be revised as needed to make them be balanced.
So Ivan is probably truthfully claiming with the parity cop.
But lying by omission by leaving out the extras of the role. Rolecopping both individuals, roleblocking both individuals, redirecting/busdriving/something else both individuals, there's any number of hidden modifications to the role you can make where scum has incentive to use it, and in fact, the target selection makes me think that it was done for precisely that extra. Keeping LLD in reigns makes a lot of sense and gaining something on Shiro also makes a lot of sense.
The target selection makes perfect sense for scum who have extra to the role beyond parity cop, but not make sense for town who is genuine in being nothing but a parity cop.
Why does the target selection make no sense for town?
Because LLD was basically universally townread and a strong player who was already pushing hard. If skitter wasn't the nightkill, there's a very high chance that it'd have been LLD who was killed instead.
LLD was always going to be town in that parity cop result, and we'd learn nothing from it, because she already was insanely town.
And Shiro adds nothing to that.
Tell me--was there so much as a single player pushing Shiroat allon D1?
Because I'm pretty damn sure that not a single person was pushing Shiro on D1, and there was nobody even pushing Shiro on D2. Nobody pushing Shiro means that conftowning Shiro doesn't actually change the gamestate. Shiro was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town, LLD was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town; the result did nothing to change the gamestate.
Ivan as scum losesnothingfrom giving the result.
What does Ivan as scum gain from the result?
Whatever Ivan's extra beyond the parity cop is, for a start.
And then the pocketing of LLD (who is, as mentioned, strongly pushing) as well as Shiro.
VOTE: That Idiot Ivan
Basically confscum here.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I don't think it's fake either.In post 852, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I don't think it's fake. There's no reason to conf. town me as a parity cop in that way.
But there very much IS reason to "conftown" you (quotes, because you already were conftown).
All roles in this game weredesigned as town roles.
But then, after being assigned an alignment,adjusted based off of alignment.
There's literally half a dozen modifications to the role which could benefit the scum. Parity cop, but rolecops the targets to give scum the info. Parity cop, but roleblocks the targets to prevent them from acting. Parity cop, but loverizes the targets to allow for them to both die at the same time. Parity cop, but busdrives the targets. And so on and so forth. You don't know about them because Ivan isn't going to claim the scum addition to the town role, Ivan's only going to claim the original role.
Beyond that?
You were a top candidate for being nightkilled N1. The scum killed skitter N1 instead--but why did they not kill you N1? Because they were already targeting you with a role. You were targeted by a role and as such scum had reason to not kill you N1.
The parity cop helps pocket you, when you are already a strong pusher--you literally basically singlehandedly pushed through the Dwlee elimination. You pushed through ONE elimination; tell me, LLD: what stops scum from trying to pocket you in order to push through more?
Then there is a fourth investigative role ON TOP OF THESE THREE OTHERS CLAIMED, which I know the player of and I trust that player to be town.In post 866, The Bombay wrote:I do not believe that the mods would have allowed us + Dwlee's cop + a parity cop to all fire night one.
That'sfourinvestigative role claims, one of which being a Cop (proven from Dwlee) and a second being a Parity Cop (Ivan's claim) that is also a neighborizer who cannot be blocked or redirected or otherwise interfered with.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Shiro is, Ivan isn't.In post 874, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:If you do, right now I'm calling Ivan and shiro my masons.
There's literally no way the mod includes an ungated parity cop-neighborizer who cannot have their action fail, ON TOP OF a very powerful cop (Dwlee) ON TOP OF another investigative (player I trust to be town), ON TOP OF Bombay's investigative, all as town.
Yes, you think Bombay is scum, but that's still an ungated parity cop-neighborizer who cannot have their action fail, ON TOP OF a very powerful cop (Dwlee) ON TOP OF another investigative (player I trust to be town).
Was I literally the only one who read morph the cat's post on how roles were designed?In post 885, T3 wrote:that's really gutsy for bombay or ivan to fakeclaim though.
EVERY role in this game, every single one, was designed first as a town role. All 13 players received town roles.In post 997, mastina wrote:In post 186, morph the cat wrote:Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments.
The three scum roles were, after being designed as scum roles, then modified based on alignment.
The modifications to the role would mean that the original, town-designed (and thus, town-appearing in a massclaim) role, would still look like town when claimed because it was town...but that the scum role would then have something extra beyond the claimed role.
Everyone who saw morph the cat's post should've known this.
How the fuck was I the one to notice this when I'm prone to missing vital setup info? I literally saw that before I had a role PM (which is why I was planning on, if I was ever seriously suspected, claiming "trust me, I guarantee that I have a town role, I can modconfirm it to be so", and if pressed, bringing up the post I quoted.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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But that's the thing. You're accusing Suripoko of making a bad hammer, but if Suripoko is scum then the hammer isn't bad, it's good; it can only be a bad hammer if Suripoko is town. So from your point of view, calling the hammer bad is a scumslip of knowing Suripoko is town.In post 918, SirCakez wrote:what no that's obviously not what I was saying
Suripoko being scum does not make the hammer good?? maybe from their PoV but I'm not in their PoV
I can think of three.In post 899, The Bombay wrote:
I can think of one.In post 898, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:if Ivan's scum, what's the motivation in making me confirmed town?
You were under zero pressure D1 (and for that matter, D2).In post 915, Shiro wrote:If they are scum why pick me for that gambit?
If there were a push on you as scum D1, then conftowning you might lose something.
But with no push on you D1, conftowning you loses nothing.
Conftowning a player means that they go from mislimmable to not-mislimmable.
But if you were not going to be a mislim without a claim, then the conftown doesn't do anything.
Fun fact, Scum Neighborizer is one of the strongest roles in existence (in Normals, it literally has aIn post 915, Shiro wrote:It generally seems like a bad gambit and their interaction in our neighborhood seems genuine as hell.higher winrate than scum roleblockers, higher winrate than scum ninjas, higher winrate than scum strongmen), and the outcome of May and Brendan's Pokemon game is proof enough of that in action.
I wonder why?
(It's because pocketing people in neighborhoods as scum is ridiculously easy.)-
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Realclaiming a mod-given role that has an extra effect that they didn't claim which pockets the player who singlehandedly forced through a Dwlee elimination sounds like pretty damn strong motivation to me.In post 926, SirCakez wrote:what is the motivation for Ivan to fakeclaim as scum here? it does nothing for them
But then again you're also scum with Ivan, so...
Yes, SirCakez is scum.
And yes, jjh is VERY town--which should tell you something.
If you believe jjh to be town you shouldn't be trusting Ivan to be town.-
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In post 952, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Alas, totally MIA on her part.
(Ended up unable to post on Thursday, sorry, but.) LLD you KNOW that this wasn't limited to this game.In post 753, mastina wrote:V/LA 48 hours
(Closing Wednesday into opening Thursday = can't post at all on Wednesday.)
Won't be able to post at all on Wednesday, but I'll force posts later tonight and on Thursday regardless of how much I don't feel like them.
I also have Suripoko as one of my strongest townreads and have the entire game, so...In post 951, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Mastina's reads this game have made sense and she's pushing on Cakez/Bombay...
This is why Ivan is scum btw.In post 967, The Bombay wrote:Hell,I probably would have killed you over Skitter as well(but probably Rogue over you).You have actively and loudly pushedme in every single game we have ever played in together. I would rather not have you here to do that again if I really were scum and had a choice in who was here.LLD, who wrestles the thread hard to push through her scum reads, who in prone to scum reading me, and has already voiced suspicions on me, or Skitter, who is repeatedly defending me at every turn.
Bombay's reasons here aren't limited to Bombay.
Basically every player in the game has identical sentiments--LLD has loudly pushed. LLD wrestles the thread hard to push her scumreads. LLD is prone to scumreading scum. This, REGARDLESS of who is scum in the game. Add in that LLD was already obvtown, and the question becomes:who has motivation to keep LLD alive over skitter?
How about the person intending to hard-pocket her via a claim in a neighborhood of their creation who targeted her D1?-
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In post 987, Rogue wrote:Mastina being a nonentity concerns me.
Check my posts both before and after the V/LA and I dare you to say I was a nonentity given the length of D1. (As a reminder, D1 lasted five days. D1 lasted less than a week. D1 lasted 120 hours.)In post 753, mastina wrote:V/LA 48 hours
(Closing Wednesday into opening Thursday = can't post at all on Wednesday.)
Won't be able to post at all on Wednesday, but I'll force posts later tonight and on Thursday regardless of how much I don't feel like them.-
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Oh I meant to say this but obviously, I don't think the scumteam is {Bombay, Ivan, SirCakez} since Bombay and Ivan are pretty transparently not scum together.
One of them is town, the other is scum, pretty much guaranteed.
Ivan and SirCakez are far far far more obviously scumbuddies and Ivan's claim is far far far more likely to be scum than town so I favor Ivan as scum over Bombay as scum but I do admit that my solve isn't possible and that there's a third scum who was outside of it. I've been focused elsewhere but it won't take me long to recalibrate and find the third.-
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In post 996, mastina wrote:
And yet you said 'obnoxious' without saying 'scummy'.In post 783, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Even if I didn't reject your entire premise that I'm allowed to find something simultaneously scummy and obnoxious
If it was scummyandobnoxious, why didn't you SAY "scummy and obnoxious" or some variant thereof? You said 'obnoxious', and only obnoxious. You said nothing of the scumminess.In post 998, mastina wrote:
I don't think it's fake either.In post 852, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I don't think it's fake. There's no reason to conf. town me as a parity cop in that way.
But there very much IS reason to "conftown" you (quotes, because you already were conftown).
All roles in this game weredesigned as town roles.
But then, after being assigned an alignment,adjusted based off of alignment.
There's literally half a dozen modifications to the role which could benefit the scum. Parity cop, but rolecops the targets to give scum the info. Parity cop, but roleblocks the targets to prevent them from acting. Parity cop, but loverizes the targets to allow for them to both die at the same time. Parity cop, but busdrives the targets. And so on and so forth. You don't know about them because Ivan isn't going to claim the scum addition to the town role, Ivan's only going to claim the original role.
Beyond that?
You were a top candidate for being nightkilled N1. The scum killed skitter N1 instead--but why did they not kill you N1? Because they were already targeting you with a role. You were targeted by a role and as such scum had reason to not kill you N1.
The parity cop helps pocket you, when you are already a strong pusher--you literally basically singlehandedly pushed through the Dwlee elimination. You pushed through ONE elimination; tell me, LLD: what stops scum from trying to pocket you in order to push through more?
Then there is a fourth investigative role ON TOP OF THESE THREE OTHERS CLAIMED, which I know the player of and I trust that player to be town.In post 866, The Bombay wrote:I do not believe that the mods would have allowed us + Dwlee's cop + a parity cop to all fire night one.
That'sfourinvestigative role claims, one of which being a Cop (proven from Dwlee) and a second being a Parity Cop (Ivan's claim) that is also a neighborizer who cannot be blocked or redirected or otherwise interfered with.
Gonna carry these over to the next page, too.In post 997, mastina wrote:In post 826, That Idiot Ivan wrote:My role allowed a neighborhood to form with two other players last night that persists into today. By foregoing posting there until night ended, I was able to get a parity cop result on the other two players. LLD and Shiro share an alignment.I am soft-counterclaiming this.
Not a hard-counterclaim, but:
I am a communicative role, similar to a neighborizer (albeit not as strong).
Through my role,I know that there is another investigative player in the game(who claimed to me specifically). This player I 100% trust to be town absolutely.
Between Bombay's claim, Ivan's claim, the investigative player that I know, and Dwlee, there's no way all four of them are town, and I believe Ivan is scum specifically because an ungated parity cop that cannot be stopped, when Dwlee was already a basically ungated full cop? Not something which is going to exist.
I believe that Ivan's role was designed as a town role, so I believe the parity cop is real. But while I believe Ivan's realclaiming a parity cop, I don't believe Ivan is town from it.
I was planning on cheekily claiming if there was ever heavy suspicion on me, "I guarantee you that my role is a town one, I can mod-confirm it to be so". And then pointing this out. But since Ivan has claimed a Parity Cop, I need to point this out: there was a mod post saying "all roles are designed as town, and then modified as needed". (I can't find it, I think morph either edited it out or deleted it, but it was there during the pregame, everyone who checked the thread then can confirm. OH WAIT I found it.)
Alignments are given AFTER roles are designed.In post 186, morph the cat wrote:Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments.
You can have a Doctor, Cop, and Vig, all designed as town roles, end up as being scum roles--and then, still as the Doctor, Cop, and Vig, be modified as the Scum Doctor, Scum Cop, and scum Vig, to be revised as needed to make them be balanced.
So Ivan is probably truthfully claiming with the parity cop.
But lying by omission by leaving out the extras of the role. Rolecopping both individuals, roleblocking both individuals, redirecting/busdriving/something else both individuals, there's any number of hidden modifications to the role you can make where scum has incentive to use it, and in fact, the target selection makes me think that it was done for precisely that extra. Keeping LLD in reigns makes a lot of sense and gaining something on Shiro also makes a lot of sense.
The target selection makes perfect sense for scum who have extra to the role beyond parity cop, but not make sense for town who is genuine in being nothing but a parity cop.
Why does the target selection make no sense for town?
Because LLD was basically universally townread and a strong player who was already pushing hard. If skitter wasn't the nightkill, there's a very high chance that it'd have been LLD who was killed instead.
LLD was always going to be town in that parity cop result, and we'd learn nothing from it, because she already was insanely town.
And Shiro adds nothing to that.
Tell me--was there so much as a single player pushing Shiroat allon D1?
Because I'm pretty damn sure that not a single person was pushing Shiro on D1, and there was nobody even pushing Shiro on D2. Nobody pushing Shiro means that conftowning Shiro doesn't actually change the gamestate. Shiro was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town, LLD was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town; the result did nothing to change the gamestate.
Ivan as scum losesnothingfrom giving the result.
What does Ivan as scum gain from the result?
Whatever Ivan's extra beyond the parity cop is, for a start.
And then the pocketing of LLD (who is, as mentioned, strongly pushing) as well as Shiro.
VOTE: That Idiot Ivan
Basically confscum here.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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So Bombay can't be scum with Ivan but Ivan is obviously scum with SirCakez.In post 172, mastina wrote:Rogue > Suripoko > jjh927 > LLD > skitter30T++:
T3T:
StrangeMatterT?:
N-T:Dwlee99
ShiroN:
N-S:Ivan
SirCakez (always) > The BombayS:
Suripoko is hard-townslipped as conftown from SirCakez and Ivan.
Rogue is pretty damn transparently town here.
LLD and Shiro are conftown.
jjh is basically conftown here.
Which means third scum is one of {T3, StrangeMatter}.-
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Oh it's probably StrangeMatter since this is scum theater here.In post 603, StrangeMatter wrote:Why was SirCakez concerning? I don't feel like you've ever elaborated on this and it's just not been talked about it.
It also is proof of why Ivan is scum btw; if SirCakez was so concerning, why was SirCakez not one of Ivan's targets?-
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You are townlocking a slot that is hard-pocketing you as scum (Ivan via neighborhood).In post 1031, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:This slot is currently calling me confirmed town and trying to make wagons that include neither Shiro nor My vote.
You are scumreading at least one player that I know to be town (myself).
That kinda puts a dampener on following you.
Plurality rules mean we don't need all the town. We just need the scum to not all vote as one and not have three townies vote with them. With 11 alive and 3 scum, to get majority, scum need 3 townies to get to 6 votes.In post 1032, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:How can there exist a townie who both believes Shiro and I are town and believes they will achieve a scum elimination today without at least one of our votes onside?
In contrast, the town doesn't need nearly as much. We need as little as 4. 5, if one townie sides with scum. 6, if two townies side with scum.
So even if you and Shiro scumside today the town can still overpower your gamethrowing.
(I'll note that jjh is technically being considered town for this when he technically isn't but jjh is playing as if he's town here pretty damn transparently, sooooo...)
SirCakez easily.In post 1044, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Okay, so let's play a game shall we.
Ivan Shiro Mastina you and I are off the table for today. In this hypothetical.
That leaves
Bombay
Rogue
SM
Cakez
T3
Suripoko
Who would you kill today and assuming they flip scum (so assuming you're right) who is scum with them?
You left out StrangeMatter who I think has decent scum equity. Not my first elimination since that'd be SirCakez or Ivan but if Ivan absolutely cannot be on the table, then SirCakez is the obvious choice.
It's not 100% certain, but it's at the very leastIn post 1033, StrangeMatter wrote:So I'm wondering, do you actually believe this is actually a theater that I would do as scum?plausible, if not probable. It's part POE (there can only be so many players who are scum), part seeing the interactions and them looking like scum theater.
That said, I'm not even considering voting you until both SirCakez and Ivan are dead, so it's a "cross that bridge when we come to it" thing.
This should be a red flag to you, LLD, that Ivan is scum.In post 1064, That Idiot Ivan wrote:P-edit: JFC, why would you claim that if you're town?!? I don't even care about your alignment any more; my brain hurts from the bad choices and logic.
You, LLD, literally demanded that Bombay claim.
Bombay did so.
For this? Ivan tries to throw shade onto Bombay fordoing what.you asked them to
And you still don't think you've been pocketed by Ivan.
Back to here, then.In post 1053, The Bombay wrote:That being said VOTE: SirCakez since that is where jjh said he would go.
VOTE: SirCakez-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Look, 100 characters is a very hard limit, I tried the best I could to get as much in there as I could but I didn't really have a lot of maneuverability given the strict limit.In post 1081, jjh927 wrote:Oh, I'm the one who told Mastina I was investigative and can verify her role
I did try to hint in a post today that I was only investigative in an extremely broad sense, as I wasn't given a lot of options for things I cpuld claim
As-is I had to get very creative. (Btw fun fact about the url= command. You can't have a url= with only one character within. I tried that, but it ended up breaking, so I had to give up one of the urls I was intending to include in the message because there wasn't enough characters, I legit used 99/100 and didn't have anything else to add with the limit.)
In post 1110, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I want a Mastina full claim next, please. Mastina can popcorn from there.
My full role is,In post 1119, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:There is a 0 percent chance that is her whole role.
r/AsheMains (obviously, what did you think the Shieldbow + Wit's End nerfs + Hawkeye was? And Hawkeye was also a role hint since my ability is based very very loosely on Hawkshot, presumably on the justification that it's communicating info to your team but I admit I was hella disappointed with my role since I feel like Cabd/ffery didn't really use anything of Ashe well; I'd have made Hawkshot an investigative or given a different ability from her other abilities);
My abilities are a voice + vote, with:
Hawkshot (e), messenger. I send messages to a player each night, with a 100-character limit.
If I deliver 3 successful letters, I gain access to a 3x public crier, also with a 100-character limit.
I pretty much almost fullclaimed this in my very first post.
If you looked at the two posts I linked, one was my 100-character-limit day post, and the other was the mod posting my public crier night message.
I realize that's not a very strong, not a very flashy, not a very good role--I wasn't exactly happy with it myself, but I have a way of making this sort of role be disproportionately powerful by having it get more mileage than intended. It's disappointing and frustrating, but it's something that I still wanted to try and maximize. I wanted to try and see if, in spite of the character limit, I could manage to form a townbloc and chain-claims N1 and maybe fakeclaim masons.
I knew you'd never go along with a mason gambit with me, but I didn't have a lot of good prospects. It needed to be a player that I could trust to be town but who could work with me and had the personality where theymightbe willing to go along with a mason gambit.
So that's why I chose jjh N1. I sent to him this message;Which told me, "no mason gambit"; "Investigative" "do not pass this information on to your N2 target".
I think that, as far as mileage from my role goes, I did as much as I could, but I guarantee you, that's my role. If you don't think it fits and that there must be more to it, take it up with the mods because that's what I got, nothing more.
Because Ivan is scum, faking a reaction in spite of Bombay literally doing what you asked them to do.In post 1095, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
No, this was the correct choice.In post 1093, That Idiot Ivan wrote:WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING?!?!?
Why are you being like this?
(Gonna be breaking off what was originally one post into a second with more RE: Ivan.)-
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This is all well and good and all, but it doesn't change the core of why I think you're scum:In post 1101, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Once the day ends, my role targets two players to neighborize in one neighborhood. They get immediate access to post. I'm informed of who's been chosen, and then I decide if I want to use any of my powers. Yes, powers, plural. All are one-shot. Once I submit an action or declare I'm taking no action, I gain viewing access to the PT. I can post from then on if I choose, but if I've chosen to take an action, that action is blocked if I post before night ends/mods clear me. Neighborhood dissolves when the following day phase ends and the process repeats.
Key info there is that my parity cop is one-shot and I have no control over who gets targeted for my neighborhoods. Given info is stronger early game and both targeted players were on a town wagon flip, I opted to use the parity cop shot N1. Hence not being concerned about being blocked in the future. That isn't my only one-shot power, but it's definitely my best one.
Word choice IS important.In post 996, mastina wrote:
And yet you said 'obnoxious' without saying 'scummy'.In post 783, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Even if I didn't reject your entire premise that I'm allowed to find something simultaneously scummy and obnoxious
If it was scummyandobnoxious, why didn't you SAY "scummy and obnoxious" or some variant thereof? You said 'obnoxious', and only obnoxious. You said nothing of the scumminess.
You know how we have the term 'scumslip'? A scumslip is defined by achoice of words. You didn't say Suripoko was scum for the hammer. You didn't say Suripoko was scum being obnoxious with the hammer. You said Suripoko's hammer was obnoxious, period. Which is, explicitly: a scumslip. A choice of words that reveals alignment, because word choice IS important.that reveals alignment
And this still holds. Yes, the lack of choosing targets negates the part about targeting LLD and Shiro specifically. However, the rest remains.In post 997, mastina wrote:I believe that Ivan's role was designed as a town role, so I believe the parity cop is real. But while I believe Ivan's realclaiming a parity cop, I don't believe Ivan is town from it.
I was planning on cheekily claiming if there was ever heavy suspicion on me, "I guarantee you that my role is a town one, I can mod-confirm it to be so". And then pointing this out. But since Ivan has claimed a Parity Cop, I need to point this out: there was a mod post saying "all roles are designed as town, and then modified as needed". (I can't find it, I think morph either edited it out or deleted it, but it was there during the pregame, everyone who checked the thread then can confirm. OH WAIT I found it.)
Alignments are given AFTER roles are designed.In post 186, morph the cat wrote:Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments.
You can have a Doctor, Cop, and Vig, all designed as town roles, end up as being scum roles--and then, still as the Doctor, Cop, and Vig, be modified as the Scum Doctor, Scum Cop, and scum Vig, to be revised as needed to make them be balanced.
So Ivan is probably truthfully claiming with the parity cop.
But lying by omission by leaving out the extras of the role. Rolecopping both individuals, roleblocking both individuals, redirecting/busdriving/something else both individuals, there's any number of hidden modifications to the role you can make where scum has incentive to use it.
Tell me--was there so much as a single player pushing Shiroat allon D1?
Because I'm pretty damn sure that not a single person was pushing Shiro on D1, and there was nobody even pushing Shiro on D2. Nobody pushing Shiro means that conftowning Shiro doesn't actually change the gamestate. Shiro was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town, LLD was at no risk of being mislimmed here as town; the result did nothing to change the gamestate.
Ivan as scum losesnothingfrom giving the result.
What does Ivan as scum gain from the result?
Whatever Ivan's extra beyond the parity cop is, for a start.
And then the pocketing of LLD (who is, as mentioned, strongly pushing) as well as Shiro.In post 998, mastina wrote:
I don't think it's fake either.In post 852, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I don't think it's fake. There's no reason to conf. town me as a parity cop in that way.
But there very much IS reason to "conftown" you (quotes, because you already were conftown).
All roles in this game weredesigned as town roles.
But then, after being assigned an alignment,adjusted based off of alignment.
There's literally half a dozen modifications to the role which could benefit the scum. Parity cop, but rolecops the targets to give scum the info. Parity cop, but roleblocks the targets to prevent them from acting. Parity cop, but loverizes the targets to allow for them to both die at the same time. Parity cop, but busdrives the targets. And so on and so forth. You don't know about them because Ivan isn't going to claim the scum addition to the town role, Ivan's only going to claim the original role.
Beyond that?
You were a top candidate for being nightkilled N1. The scum killed skitter N1 instead--but why did they not kill you N1? Because they were already targeting you with a role. You were targeted by a role and as such scum had reason to not kill you N1.
The parity cop helps pocket you, when you are already a strong pusher--you literally basically singlehandedly pushed through the Dwlee elimination. You pushed through ONE elimination; tell me, LLD: what stops scum from trying to pocket you in order to push through more?In post 1000, mastina wrote:
EVERY role in this game, every single one, was designed first as a town role. All 13 players received town roles.In post 997, mastina wrote:In post 186, morph the cat wrote:Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments.
The three scum roles were, after being designed as scum roles, then modified based on alignment.
The modifications to the role would mean that the original, town-designed (and thus, town-appearing in a massclaim) role, would still look like town when claimed because it was town...but that the scum role would then have something extra beyond the claimed role.In post 1002, mastina wrote:
Realclaiming a mod-given role that has an extra effect that they didn't claim which pockets the player who singlehandedly forced through a Dwlee elimination sounds like pretty damn strong motivation to me.In post 926, SirCakez wrote:what is the motivation for Ivan to fakeclaim as scum here? it does nothing for them
While you might not have chosen to target LLD, you knew LLD was the target of your role--this disincentives you from killing LLD N1 and gives you incentive to keep her alive.In post 1003, mastina wrote:
This is why Ivan is scum btw.In post 967, The Bombay wrote:Hell,I probably would have killed you over Skitter as well(but probably Rogue over you).You have actively and loudly pushedme in every single game we have ever played in together. I would rather not have you here to do that again if I really were scum and had a choice in who was here.LLD, who wrestles the thread hard to push through her scum reads, who in prone to scum reading me, and has already voiced suspicions on me, or Skitter, who is repeatedly defending me at every turn.
Bombay's reasons here aren't limited to Bombay.
Basically every player in the game has identical sentiments--LLD has loudly pushed. LLD wrestles the thread hard to push her scumreads. LLD is prone to scumreading scum. This, REGARDLESS of who is scum in the game. Add in that LLD was already obvtown, and the question becomes:who has motivation to keep LLD alive over skitter?
How about the person intending to hard-pocket her via a claim in a neighborhood of their creation who targeted her D1?
And this part? It actually getsIn post 1001, mastina wrote:
You were under zero pressure D1 (and for that matter, D2).In post 915, Shiro wrote:If they are scum why pick me for that gambit?
If there were a push on you as scum D1, then conftowning you might lose something.
But with no push on you D1, conftowning you loses nothing.
Conftowning a player means that they go from mislimmable to not-mislimmable.
But if you were not going to be a mislim without a claim, then the conftown doesn't do anything.
Fun fact, Scum Neighborizer is one of the strongest roles in existence (in Normals, it literally has aIn post 915, Shiro wrote:It generally seems like a bad gambit and their interaction in our neighborhood seems genuine as hell.higher winrate than scum roleblockers, higher winrate than scum ninjas, higher winrate than scum strongmen), and the outcome of May and Brendan's Pokemon game is proof enough of that in action.
I wonder why?
(It's because pocketing people in neighborhoods as scum is ridiculously easy.)strongerwith a lack of ability to select your target.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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I wish. That'd be a lot more fun and would allow me to blatantly copy your gambit from Animals UPick 2.In post 1121, jjh927 wrote:I did consider that she might be reflexive given I targeted her, though.
Alas, it was just me directly targeting you because who else was I going to target?
Rogue, a fairly high chance of being a nightkill and who literally just came from a game with a neighborhood scum being treated as a mason earning them a win? Even if Rogue lived, they'd have said no.
skitter, a player scumreading me with a fairly decent chance of being nightkilled? Even if she lived, she'd have said no.
T3? Maybe, but I don't know T3 that well, I don't know what he'd be down for.
StrangeMatter? Total unknown.
Shiro? Maybe, but I seem to recall Shiro was scumreading me D1 so probably not.
LLD? With the message coming fromme? Hell no she'd never agree to it.
Suripoko? The slot communicating in images? If they chose to break their restriction or make images that clearly and unambiguously communicated, maybe, but I've no way of controlling what images they produce and frankly I don't really understand their images so what they think would be clearly and unambiguously answering me wouldn't be clear and unambiguous to me.
Bombay? One of my strongest scumreads N1.
SirCakez? One of my strongest scumreads N1.
That Idiot Ivan? Among my scumreads N1.
You were the slot most likely to get things going, and from you I was planning on trying to coordinate a use N2 during the course of D2.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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OH forgot to select someone next to claim.
Should be fairly obvious;
SirCakez should claim.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Well this confirms that either you've never played with me or that you're scum bullshitting because in the last three years?In post 1141, That Idiot Ivan wrote:More to the point, this reads as invested mastina-scum.
There's no such thing as invested scumastina.
I can provide receipts for this claim if necessary but I really shouldn't need to given that literally anyone who's played with me in the last three years and seen my towngame vs my scumgame will know it to be true.
I said there was no way your claimed role was true.In post 1141, That Idiot Ivan wrote:And she latched onto the idea that my role was overpowered with surprising facility.
As it turns out, your claimed role was not in fact true.
I will call out bullshit that I see as bullshit and have in fact done so before as town and said this exact thing back then. The player said basically the same thing you are, that I was scum for calling out a roleclaim that wasn't real, when I was calling out the roleclaim correctly as not being real. (Fucked if I know what game it was tho. I know it happened in a past towngame of mine, I can't recall which tho.)
These don't contradict each other, they augment each other.In post 1141, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Add in the kissing up to LLD about how she was clearly the second choice for NK because she was so town for her Day One play, but yet the assumption that someone could pocket LLD in a neighborhood.
It is in fact possible to pocket players in neighborhoods; LLD was definitely one of the players most likely to be killed N1; LLDnotbeing killed N1 is almost assuredly thanks to being pocketable in the neighborhood.
Because I am scumreading both of you but you clearly cannot be scum together.In post 1141, That Idiot Ivan wrote:I also don't like the way she set up those chained elims in the event that either Bombay or I flipped
And thus, one must be scum while the other must be town.
My scumread on you is stronger than my scumread on Bombay because you're basically obvscum coasting off of a roleclaim and the related pocketing of LLD from neighborhood posting.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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How many times will I need to quote it?In post 1149, The Bombay wrote:
Mastina, why are you simultaneously calling Ivan scum, but then also taking all parts of his claim at face value?In post 1145, mastina wrote:And this part? It actually getsstrongerwith a lack of ability to select your target.
This is literally how the roles were designed.In post 997, mastina wrote:
Alignments are given AFTER roles are designed.In post 186, morph the cat wrote:Alignments will be randomized after the roles are initially designed,This ensures that subreddit flavor has no correlation with the alignment rolls. Any subreddit in the game can be any alignment.and roles will be revised as needed based on alignments.
You can have a Doctor, Cop, and Vig, all designed as town roles, end up as being scum roles--and then, still as the Doctor, Cop, and Vig, be modified as the Scum Doctor, Scum Cop, and scum Vig, to be revised as needed to make them be balanced.
So Ivan is probably truthfully claiming with the parity cop.
But lying by omission by leaving out the extras of the role. Rolecopping both individuals, roleblocking both individuals, redirecting/busdriving/something else both individuals, there's any number of hidden modifications to the role you can make where scum has incentive to use it.
Literally. every. player. Got a town role.
That includes Ivan.
This town role was then modified based on the alignment of the player.
Thus: Ivan wouldn't be lying about his role, he would be truthfully claiming thetown partof the role, but leaving out thescumpart.
This is, what, the third time I've had to explain this concept?
Read the fucking game mechanics.
It's not that hard to grasp.
EVERY player got a town role. Which means Ivan has a realclaim/safeclaim from the mods of a real town role.
Said town role, a realclaim/safeclaim, was then modified based on the alignment of the player receiving it.
And thus, Ivan isn't going to be lyingdirectly. Ivan is going to be lyingby omission. By leaving out the scum part of the role.
I'm calling Ivan lockscum onlyIn post 1149, The Bombay wrote:This feels counter intuitive, to just believe him while calling him "lockscum."in partdue to the role.
It's always been a play-based read. The roleclaim accounts for 25% of the reason Ivan is scum; play is legitimately 75% of why Ivan is scum.
Because I'm apparently the only player who read the fucking game mechanics as shown by literally nobody understanding me here.In post 1149, The Bombay wrote: Why did you jump to that being real?-
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It strengthens the reasons for Ivan being scum.In post 1150, The Bombay wrote:And also, if you believe he could not choose his targets, how does that affect your thoughts on LLD not being killed?
If Ivan couldn't choose his targets, he still got to know the targets N1.
Knowing the targets N1 and that he couldn't select them, he has a dilemma: kill LLD and lose the benefit of his role, or let LLD live in spite of how she's one of the most obvtown players in the game with the strength to push a read through and has reasonably high accuracy in her reads.
The latter has a much higher benefit than the former especially depending on what scum part of the role Ivan isn't claiming and especially if Ivan comes up with the idea of pocketing LLD in the neighborhood.
In post 1151, The Bombay wrote:I am convinced that it is possible for the claimed roles to coexist, therefore he is no longer lock scum.Everyrole in this game has the potential to coexist as an alignment. You could have three town cop-type roles or three scum cop-type roles or six cop-type roles shared between town and scum.
Because of the game mechanic where every role is designed initially as a town role, and then adjusted to accommodate for balance. Scum roles are going to have the town role and then have an additional scum aspect to them to bolster their strength to account for the town's strength; town roles would either remain the same if the setup is balanced, or get buffed if the setup is scumsided, or far more likely, be nerfed to be weaker.
You can see that in full effect with my role. I'm an incredibly gated messenger with an incredibly gated town crier. I can post messages only after N3 publicly and have only 3 shots of that ability but all of my messages are limited to 100 characters. It's as weak as weak roles can get, which means that my role was definitely nerfed from the initial balance. Maybe it was an ungated messenger with a lower crier requirement, or maybe it was a friendly neighbor in addition to the messenger, with the crier being an IC. (Say my role was initially friendly neighbor with 100 character limit and after 3 uses, could become a crier/IC.) You'll have to wait for the mod thread to see the postgame nerfs they made but I imagine I'm onpoint with what they did.
But I digress. Mypointhere, is that Ivan's claim can be real here and be town, sure--but it feels too strong to be a real town role given what we have claimed even given jjh as a 3p here. More than that, Ivan is scum by play.
This is a game literally designed, per the mods, to be solved by dayplay not by roleclaims. Because every player was assigned a town role to begin with, it is designed so that scum can truthfully claim and that the town must use play to figure out the town from the scum.
And Ivan is scum by play. If you want that case on PLAY, you can read my fucking iso because I have a feeling folks aren't doing that because I've been explaining myself multiple times here.-
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As it so happens, I have a flowchart for reading me.In post 1174, StrangeMatter wrote:I don’t have a good read on them currently. I need to look into them for sure before having something definite there.
I can also fairly quickly track down all of my scumgames for the last three years as well as showing a few of the towngames.
Oh my scumread on you didn't go away. I'm still scumreading you by play--it's just that you are pushing SirCakez as scum and you also entered into a 1v1 with Ivan so unless you double-bussed and orchestrated a 1v1, you're not scum with both of them.In post 1178, The Bombay wrote:Going from saying I am lock scum, to then seeing me and Ivan in a 1 v 1 and siding with me felt weird.
In contrast?
Ivan and SirCakez have been buddy-buddy the entire time. (I've shown this before in my iso but if you're going to be a lazy fuck I can show it to you again because it's pretty damn transparently obvious that they are scumbuddies here.)
You've pushed both Ivan and SirCakez; Ivan and SirCakez have, consistently, defended each other as well as voting together on Suripoko. (As you yourself noted, for Suripoko to be scum requires literally all of your scumreads to be wrong. You can't apply that sentiment to your reads without also applying them to mine.)
You've done a bunch of scummy shit. This push on me among them and your inconsistencies are a plenty.
But you also are far less of a fit for scum compared to Ivan and SirCakez.
I don't see a world in which Ivan or SirCakez are ever town. Their play just isn't.
It's very very glim, distant, kinda hazy, but I can at leastseetown in you. It doesn't look like it's real, but I can at least see glimmers of what couldpotentiallybe town indicators.
No town indicators for Ivan/SirCakez, both of them being obvscum, Ivan's claim being a scum claim, your play doesn't fit as well as a scumbuddy, your claim feels more honest (if you were scum then the commute would be a scum ability so I find it less likely for you to be scum since if you were scum it's not optimal to claim that), and I can at leastseethepotentialfor you to be town. (Vaguely.)-
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Oh I agree it's a terrible fit!In post 1188, Shiro wrote:I dont believe for a second that a role based on Ashe is just a messenger
Mainly because it doesn't fit at all. And since I am also a League character and have first hand info on how they designed roles based on said champions abbilities. I highly doubt that what they thought would be appropriate for Ashe.
I'm actively active on AsheMains. The reason I chose that subreddit is because I am a member there and I post there a lot. (Mostly on build-related things.)
I'm literally an Ashe onetrick and I know everything about her pretty much. Her lore, her abilities, her builds, her role in the game, everything.
I agree that the mods did AsheMains a huge disservice with the shitty messenger that doesn't fit well with the chosen subreddit.
Ashe's ult would be a good roleblocker.
Ashe's ult could also be a form of aoe ability, spreading to multiple characters.
Ashe's hawkshot could be an investigative.
Ashe's hawkshotcanbe used to give information to others--but messenger isn't what I think of when I think of giving information. When I think of giving information, I think of amnesiac investigative, the role that investigates a player and sends the results to a different player.
Ashe's volley could be used as an aoe ability, maybe tagging multiple players.
Ashe's ranger focus could give her multitasking, stacking abilities.
Ashe's passive could be used as a Delayer, delaying actions.
Ashe's passive could be used as a roleblocker.
Ashe could act as a vig, due to being an adc designed to dish out the damage.
Ashe is the kiting queen, so she could be a commuter or a hider from evading her opponents.
Ashe is highly supportive and utility-based with a secondary flex into being a support, so she could give her teammates something. She could serve as an enabler, or she could provide buffs, like role upgrades, extra shots, give multitasking, be an inventor, etc.
Ashe is one of the biggest (I forget the term, Warmother?) of the Freljord, she literally started from nothing and built up a tribe through welcoming others, diplomacy, kindness but not softness, her wits, compassion, but firmness. From this, she could be a neighborizer based on building her community up, or be some kind of firm commander, or something like that.
Ashe's meta build until this season was Shieldbow, so she could have a 1x bulletproof from a shieldbow being procced. This also works for the previously meta wit's end for similar reasons.
Ashe could gain a power after having been targeted, similarly working off of Shieldbow's shield being procced, making her something of a reflexive role.
Ashe's meta rune is lethal tempo which gives attack speed and now also bonus range, which is another way Ashe could get multitasking.
Ashe usually takes biscuits, which could function as an activated 1x bulletproof.
Ashe with approach velocity could be a hider or tracker or follower or similar, hunting down a target.
Ashe with the poke-build using arcane comet could be some form of delayed role, where she uses something one night and gets something else on a following night, and/or a role that ramps up with time to represent her cdr going down. (That also works for a ramping up passive/damage from the crit build come to think of it.)
AsheMains as a reddit about Ashe could have involved any number of things based on the images, clips, fanart, discussion, and guides involved.
But the mods didn't give any of that.
They gave an extremely gated messenger, and an even heavier gated town crier requiring three successful uses of the gated messenger and then that role itself being three-shot. And they tied it haphazardly to hawkshot.
I agree with you that it's a shitty role, it's not a good fit.
I agree with you that the mods could do a lot more with AsheMains than they did.
I agree with you that the mods shouldn't have given this role to me given what I submitted.
I agree with you that it's not very well-designed.
But no matter how much you don't like it--that's exactly what the mods gave me.
You might think I'm lying, but I'm not. It's precisely what the mods did give to me. It doesn't matter if you think it's not a good fit--it matters what the mods thought. And they apparently thought it was acceptable. I disagree with them. I don't think it's a good fit at all. But no matter how much I disagree with their decision, it won't change my role.
I'm r/AsheMains, my abilities are,
Hawkshot (E) messenger, sending a letter to a player each night with a 100-character limit, where three successful letters unlocks the public crier ability (also gated to 100 characters),
And a public crier ability, which has 3 shots.
That's it. It doesn't fit well. But it's what the mods gave me, fittingness be damned.
And yet, that's exactly what I got. Nothing more.In post 1186, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Anyone who thinks mastina actually got a 100 character messenger role as her only real power, raise your hand. Look at the flipped roles, look at the other claims on the table. Then look at that. One of these things is not like the others...
And the proof?
In both what I would claim if I had anything (I'd claim any investigative power I have and provably did not investigate jjh; I'd claim any protective power I had; I'd claim any blocking power I had and provably did not roleblock jjh; that doesn't leave a whole lot which I could have beyond what I claimed, now, does it?), and from the way night went, and from my target selection, and from meta.
I don't fucking lie about my role regardless of my alignment.
So when I say that all I have is the messenger role (with the crier later).
It's all I have.
Wrong.In post 1186, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Also note that whatever new information I brought to the table (and also note that nothing I claimed was ever a lie or retracted; I just only claimed what town needed to know off the bat to optimize information from reactions) wasn't ever actually used to reevaluate her stance.
I did reevaluate the read off of the new information--
I came out with an even stronger scumread on you because of the claim beingmorelikely to be a scumclaim, rather than less.
There ain't a player onsite immune to being pocketed in a neighborhood. Not even LLD is immune to it.In post 1186, That Idiot Ivan wrote:I'll take another show of hands from anyone in this game who thinks they could pocket LLD.
The power of scum to pocket in neighborhoods isthatstrong.
If every role in the game is designed initially as a town role, why would scum have any reason to lie about the town parts of their role?In post 1193, The Bombay wrote:It feels like you are using that line by the mods to say that "confirmed scum" Ivan would never have a reason to lie about any part of his role.
The only parts the scum have a reason to lie about are the modifications to the town role that make it a scum role.
Ergo, Ivan's claim is going to be mostly true--but leaving out crucial scum-oriented details of the role, a lie by omission.
Ivan is scum and as Ivan is scum, Ivan is disincentivized from voting scum and incentivized to vote town.In post 1193, The Bombay wrote:The Ivan, LLD, Shiro voting block does not look like they want to go in with me on Cakez or T3, and this is fine.
LLD and Shiro are both hard-pocketed by Ivan and thus will not vote scum and are guaranteed to vote town.
Voting with them is a resignation that you cannot eliminate scum, and fuck that. By the numbers, even with two townies hard-scumsiding due to being hard-pocketed, the town still can eliminate scum.
It's only if you DO resign that it becomes impossible to eliminate scum, as a self-fulfilling prophecy.
If you give up on eliminating scum, then a scum elimination becomes impossible thanks to Shiro and LLD; if youdon'tgive up on eliminating scum, then a scum elimination is suddenly possible.-
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In post 1198, T3 wrote:catchup in 30 minsIn post 1200, T3 wrote:i did not get a message saying that i lost my box.In post 1204, T3 wrote:i'm observing
Okay,In post 1205, T3 wrote:r/chessporn
The Bombay /You were right about T3 being scum here. (Apologies to StrangeMatter as that means you're town.)
marcistar /
Lukewarm:
T3 is a player who, rather extensively, knows metas. He is one of THE heaviest users of meta onsite. He is one of THE biggest players on researching meta and he knows my meta both from having played with me extensively and from having done research beyond what he's seen. He's seen me both as scum (speaking of that game,Luke, you should really remember my performance as scum in that game when thinking about the chances I'm scum inthisgame) and countless times my towngame.
T3 said that he was catching up.
And then?
...And then nothing.
And then he gave nothing.
He claimed his reddit flavor submission (with an implication of being the other chess player that he didn't explicitly state altho the implication is strong/obvious enough that it can safely be assumed, but the lack of explicit unambiguousness makes the claim more sketchy), he claimed his box status, and said he was observing.
And nothing else.
Why is T3 doing nothing here?
...Because I am the lead wagon and Suripoko is the second lead wagon and we're both town.
And T3 knows that if he defended me, that I wouldn't be voted out.
T3 can't call me scum without it being a scumclaim, but he also can't be active and not say anything without it being a scumclaim.
So what does him doing nothing, being inactive, mean?
It means that he knows he can't be active without clearing me and he doesn't want to clear me and because he wants the wagons on town to remain, since he knows that if he conftowns me, that it increases the odds of a scum elimination going through.-
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In post 1212, morph the cat wrote:Deadline: January 17, 1:00 PM US Eastern Time.
Countdown: (expired on 2022-01-17 10:00:00)
Mod Notes:
SirCakez is v/la until 1/17MODS: Given SirCakez is V/LA until the deadline and plurality rules are in effect, can we get a deadline extension? Having a player be V/LA for literally 3/7 of the provided days is unfair to everyone involved as it's a player inactive for literally half the time, and you're not prodding or replacing the slot that's inactive for half of the day phase due to the V/LA.
An extension seems fair.-
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Okay so notty could potentially actually be scum here because notscience should absolutelyIn post 1215, Rogue wrote:I’m cool with either of the leading wagons going. I am open to hearing about cakeboy.notbe okay with my elimination here.
Yes, I get notty being okay with Suripoko as an elimination.
But notscience knows my towngame. He literally was scumreading me wrongly for like half of Pokemon UPick and was thoroughly embarrassed when I ended up nightkilled instead of conftown because of just how obvtown I was.
It's not a full read reversal because notscience could be a fucking moron who didn't learn from history and in spite of having made this EXACT mistake last time is making it again.
But given that I'd expect notscience to learn from his past mistakes and not make them again, being okay with my elimination when this is self-evidently my towngame is inherently damaging to my prior townread there.
I still think the scumteam is {SirCakez, Ivan, T3}, but if one of those were wrong, with notty's play here at end of day, Rogue would be near the top of my scum candidates.-
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I mostly concur, but I'd like the day to last until after my V/LA so that I can actually delve into the most likely scumteam.In post 1274, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Okay, done. So after we dump Rogue today, I'm thinking the elimination pool is {me, Cakez, T3}.-
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Yup!In post 1306, The Bombay wrote:So Shiro made mastina loyal, and mastina targeted LLD with a message?
Uh I can share this but I'm not sure if it's public or not and if it's not I would need permission to do so. But, suffice to say: I had a way to know Shiro was making me loyal.In post 1309, The Bombay wrote:How did Mastina know that she was being made loyal by Shiro in order to include it in her message to LLD during the night?
(This would be why I am not voting--I haven't done my full solve work yet, I did some preliminary work last night but I kinda am figuring that you have done more work there than I have and am waiting for you to give your thoughts and then I can give my thoughts on that to build off of it more or less.)In post 1327, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:By the way, this day doesn't end until I say so, understood? I have things I need to work out in private... but all will be revealed soon enough.
That said it's looking pretty damn likely that T3's scum, stalling here.In post 1345, T3 wrote:oHhHhH
There's a high chance Bombay is town; there's a high chance StrangeMatter is town; LLD is conftown; Shiro is conftown; I am conftown; that leaves 2/4 of {SirCakez, T3, That Idiot Ivan, Rogue} as scum.
T3's looking pretty damn likely.
SirCakez imo has a fairly high chance of being scum.
Ivan has high scum equity with SirCakez but less otherwise imo.
Rogue might not be confscum but shouldn't be allowed to live to mylo/lylo. With 2/9 as scum, that means that in the worst case scenario of a town elimination and a town nightkill going through, we need to kill them either today or tomorrow imo.
I realize that we theoretically in the best case scenario have enough mislims to go through all four but sadly the game's not autowin (for ~reasons~). So I'm treating things as if we only have three, which means that we need to determine the least-scum of the four candidates imo and then of the three remaining, what the best order of elimination would be. (Rogue would need to be either first or second thanks to the result probably.)-
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(Pagetopping this.)In post 1349, mastina wrote:
Yup!In post 1306, The Bombay wrote:So Shiro made mastina loyal, and mastina targeted LLD with a message?
Uh I can share this but I'm not sure if it's public or not and if it's not I would need permission to do so. But, suffice to say: I had a way to know Shiro was making me loyal.In post 1309, The Bombay wrote:How did Mastina know that she was being made loyal by Shiro in order to include it in her message to LLD during the night?
(This would be why I am not voting--I haven't done my full solve work yet, I did some preliminary work last night but I kinda am figuring that you have done more work there than I have and am waiting for you to give your thoughts and then I can give my thoughts on that to build off of it more or less.)In post 1327, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:By the way, this day doesn't end until I say so, understood? I have things I need to work out in private... but all will be revealed soon enough.
That said it's looking pretty damn likely that T3's scum, stalling here.In post 1345, T3 wrote:oHhHhH
There's a high chance Bombay is town; there's a high chance StrangeMatter is town; LLD is conftown; Shiro is conftown; I am conftown; that leaves 2/4 of {SirCakez, T3, That Idiot Ivan, Rogue} as scum.
T3's looking pretty damn likely.
SirCakez imo has a fairly high chance of being scum.
Ivan has high scum equity with SirCakez but less otherwise imo.
Rogue might not be confscum but shouldn't be allowed to live to mylo/lylo. With 2/9 as scum, that means that in the worst case scenario of a town elimination and a town nightkill going through, we need to kill them either today or tomorrow imo.
I realize that we theoretically in the best case scenario have enough mislims to go through all four but sadly the game's not autowin (for ~reasons~). So I'm treating things as if we only have three, which means that we need to determine the least-scum of the four candidates imo and then of the three remaining, what the best order of elimination would be. (Rogue would need to be either first or second thanks to the result probably.)-
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(Just letting you know that I have read everything, but I am on my phone right now, and everything that I want to say, requires a desktop to say, and I can't do it while phoneposting. It'll be a fair amount, too, so expect it circa 6-8 hours from now.
That said, one of the things, Ivan brought up already, but LLD also forgot ANOTHER issue beyond the stated. She forgot about a critical fact that both she and I know, which isn't public, but which would even further fuck the town over if eliminating me.)
EDIT: Almost forgot to say,
Yes, I intend to vote SirCakez, but will do so only after LLD has had a chance to hear what I have to say and revise the flawed plan.-
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Respectfully, what in your play makes it bad play for scum?In post 1396, That Idiot Ivan wrote:mastina, I'd also suggest you think about why if you're town I'd have to be about the least savvy and most disorganized scum player around to let things unfold as they did. Yes, WIFOM is a thing, but there's plausible deniability and then there's leaving gold bars unattended at a Wild West saloon.
LLD is poisoned--she's set to die at the end of the day.
This,in spite ofyou having conftown'd her.
This,in spite ofyou having (allegedly)bodyguardedher.
LLD is going to die, and there's nothing anyone can do to prevent it.
And the funny thing is:
LLD said this about me, but who fits this better than me, Ivan?In post 1399, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:it's possible the poison was used on me to let me live long enough to clear Mastina, and not long enough to suspect her.
You fit the description better than I do;
"it's possible the poison was used on me long enough to clear Ivan, and not long enough to suspect him".
What in that would be bad scumplay, Ivan?
Serious question, because I don't see anything inherently bad about it.
Now, granted!
I will admit: there's a decent chance you are town anyway.
I did some crunching on possible scumteams (I wanted to post it in this post but given the time, I might need to delay it because it's late and I'm tired, sorry), and you're only scum in a small small fraction of them. You don't fit as a Bombay scumbuddy (D2 makes this obvious), you being a StrangeMatter scumbuddy is only possible if the scumteam vastly vastly VASTLY andterriblymisread the gamestate (basically, the ONLY way it's possible is if the scumteam erroneously thought that I was an easier mislim to push D2 than SirCakez, and thatwouldbe incompetence from a scum-Ivan which is why I am pretty much ruling this one out), so the only initial Ivan-scum worlds are,
{Ivan, SirCakez}; {Ivan, T3}; {Ivan, Rogue}. And that's just from memory, I might be able to narrow it down even more by doing additional research and crossreferencing and such. (But honestly, the only scumteam I think is very very highly probable is Ivan-SirCakez and in that instance we always eliminate SirCakez first and check for SirCakez scumbuddies after he flips scum.)
But while there's a decent chance you are town anyway--I'm not going to bet the game on you being town especially if SirCakez is in fact scum like I believe he is.
Respectfully, LLD:In post 1353, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:The fact that Shiro informed you you would be loyal prior to your action means that any strongman modification you could have placed on yourself would have pierced through the Loyal modifier.
1: If I had the ability to tack on a strongman modifier, I'd have used it tokillyou. Not message you through a loyal. Killing you is abetterversion of messaging you. Killing you means that I can claim to have messaged you, but didn't need to actually have messaged you. Literally nobody would be able to prove me otherwise. Because with me having said I'd target you, and you dead, nobody would know otherwise.
Plus, as an aside: if I had a strongman messenger? I'd have claimed it. I don't fucking lie about my role, and strongman-messenger isn't a scumclaim. Why isn't it a scumclaim? Well for a start: we have a proven Strongwilled Cop and a claimed Strongwilled Doc, so a strongman/strongwilled Messenger wouldn't be a scumclaim and would fit right in as a townclaim. And since I didn't claim messenger until D2, I'd have seen Dwlee's claim and known it was 100% totally and entirely safe to claim it, too. But I didn't, because I don't have a strongman messenger; I have a normal messenger that can and will fail if any blocking condition is met.
2: Does a strongman even pierce through Loyal? I don't think it does. Loyal causes your night action to fail if you don't target someone of the same alignment as you. Strongman causes you to pierce through blocking actions. But Loyal targeting a player of a different alignment isn't a blocking action. I suppose we can ask the mods;
MOD: if a player had a strongmanned action, and a loyal modifier to that action, and they targeted someone of a different alignment, would the Strongman cause the action to succeed or would the Loyal cause the action to fail?
3: If Shiro making me Loyal wasn't oneshot, I can just target literally any nonscum player and come tomorrow, if I am not roleblocked by scum (keeping in mind that we have both a jailkeeper and a watcher tonight so scum targeting me for a block is leaving both the jk and the watcher unblocked), I can confirm myself again tonight. Using a oneshot strongman to pierce through loyalmightbe possible (depending on the mod's ruling), but even you should agree that it's far far far less likely to have two strongmans to pierce through loyal, right?
4: On the note of saying I could've used a strongman on my messenger, I'd like to point out: there is an, unclaimed, source of poison on you. This makes it almost certainly a scum ability. There is also an, unclaimed, roleblock on you. This makes it definitely a scum ability. We have two scum left, and I am very much definitely a Messenger. For me to attach a Strongman to the messenger means that with only two scum alive, scum usedfourabilitiesall on youlast night. FOUR abilities to target you last night, LLD. A strongman, a messenger, a poison, and a roleblock. Be honest--does that sound like it makes sense to you? Because to me that pretty blatantly violates Occam's Razor and general principles of scumplay.
5: But more than that, you should know DAMN well that this is my towngame. Like, you've SEEN my scumgame. You should really really REALLY know what my scumgame looks like. You've seen it more recently than most folks have in fact and you should know precisely what I do as scum and how night/day the difference is between my scumgame and my towngame.
Even if Iwasn'tconftown (and I think points 1-4 are pretty damn compelling in saying why it takes a flagrant violation of occam's razor to paint me as anything but), I wouldn't need to be conftown here; I should be obvtown anyway.
I realize that I don't generally vibe with you; I realize that I generally get in your way; etc. But when the outcome of the game is reliant on you being onpoint, youshouldneed to realize why I shouldn't be on the elimination table, especially given the thing that you and I both know. (Which I will mention in a bit, but first...)
Honorary point #6:In post 1383, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:That's 5 kill immunities. I don't care how much poison is in this game, there are not 5 kill immunities.
You're damn right there's not that many kill interferences. Your bulletproof, StrangeMatter's JK, Ivan's Bodyguard, Rogue's claim, T3's claim, Bombay's commute, and one more you forgot to list, that's literally SEVEN players with claimed killstop mechanics.
SEVEN of THIRTEEN players claiming roles that have killstop (or at least kill interference) mechanics.
Literally over HALF the players have claimed mechanics to interfere with kill mechanics.
There's AT LEAST one scum in there, possibly two.
And I am not a player who is among those.
As long as there's still 7 claimed kill interference players without a flipped scum in those players, I should not be the focus.
Yes, think about what happens if I am eliminated. There's something which you should know will happen.In post 1412, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I am supposed to know something? and Ivan knows it too, but I have no memory? What?
Now, after that thing happens, if scum either get lucky or happen to be in the know, they can take advantage of that thing which happens.
Even if we had the eliminations to spare (which we don't, we've got one, and that's it), we wouldn't actually have the eliminations to spare, at least not safely/reliably.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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From an entirely objective standpoint where only LLD and Shiro are conftown (even tho IIn post 1415, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Do you think scum came in with a plan to avoid bussing Suripoko here?shouldbe, let's devil's advocate for a moment and pretend I'm not), that's pretty damn obviously impossible here.
The only teams with no bussing involved are:
{mastina, Ivan} (lol no)
{mastina, StrangeMatter} (okay technically possible I suppose?)
{mastina, Bombay} (lol no)
{Ivan, StrangeMatter} (only possible if the scumteam utterly botched D2 by vastly completely misreading the gamestate and thinking that I was a more viable mislim than SirCakez, which is to say: lol no)
{Ivan, Bombay} (lol no)
{StrangeMatter, Bombay} (N1 makes this a lol no)
I think all of these "lol no"s are fairly obvious and self-explanatory, but if you don't get why they are so obviously not a viable scumteam combo, I can go into why.
Since the only team that isn't a lol no is a team with me in it I know that it can't be the case and if you think that StrangeMatter is town then that should cement things as meaning that there's no truly possible scumteam with zero scum bussing.
Ergo, basically proven by the PoE, there is inherently, innately, arequirementforat leastone scum bussing. Therecannotbe no scum bussing.
And look at the wagon order--the only conftown name there is Shiro at theendof the wagon.
Which implies a level of preplanned bussing of Suripoko.
The question isn't if there's bussing on Suripoko (there is).
It's "one, or two?", and which of them.
I honestly can see any of the three being scum in basically any combo. (Well not quite, again, I did some of the work last night but want to refine it.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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In post 1443, That Idiot Ivan wrote:B) LLD hasn't cleared meIn post 1402, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Ivan probably town at this point for me,I'm willing to bet my game on it at least.
It's a violation of Occam's Razor.In post 1443, That Idiot Ivan wrote:C) using a bunch of power in a mini to become 'conftown' with one miselim to spare is hardly bad scum play
It not only requires that all of those powers to exist, but for the scumteam to think to use them in that specific way when that specific way is contrived and convoluted. And I can tell you right here and now, scumastina does not think to pile on all scum actions onto a single player; in fact, her fear and paranoia of doubling down on something that won't work would, specifically, make her want to spread actions out. Maybe there's a player on this playerlist that would double down and put all on a single player. But it's certainly not me.
I do not think that way. I just don't. I literally can't think that way as scum. And since my message is something that I need to write, if I were scum, I would need to be involved in the scum's decision process--meaning that it's not something I would think of and I would object to as being too much "all eggs in one basket".
Which is simpler?
That I, as scum, have an unproven strongman modifier that I can attach to the messenger but either didn't or couldn't attach to the kill, knew that it would bypass being loyal, stacked literally all the scum power onto LLD, knowing that she would still have an entire day phase where she could EVEN IF I WAS TOWN still eliminate my scumbuddy, leaving me unable to use a third shot of the messenger unless said strongman modifier had a second shot, all for the chance at being falsely conftown'd, a gambit that frankly has a low chance of success because LLD and I have a poor meshing history...
...Or that I messaged LLD as a town with the Loyal modifier?
You're delusional if you say the former is simpler than the latter.
I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong? It'd require me outting the interaction but obviously I don't want to do that but I'm pretty damn sure I'm right about this?In post 1443, That Idiot Ivan wrote:you're wrong about what happens if you're eliminated, and it's really WTF for you to imply otherwise
My elimination causes something to happen. That something does not directly impact things, but has the potential to give the scum an advantage with bad town luck / good scum luck (or scum being in the know).
Unless the mechanic involved was a one-time thing, but I was under the impression it'd happen on my elimination too.
What's a waste about it?In post 1443, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Why are you wasting your time answering a question I posed to Bombay intending to encourage them to look at the various votes for Suripoko and the naturalness thereof? You've been talking about putting up an analysis of who's likely scum. With two days left, maybe go there? Fuck refining it; if you're actually town, stop doing your normal thing of completely misreading me and get to talking about today's elim.
I am giving extra info. The prompt for me giving extra info need not be directed at me. In fact most of the time I give info, it's because I see something directed at someone else, but I have my own thoughts that I want to give in spite of it having not been directed at me.
But if you want the raw version.
Sure, you can have it.
This was typed during N2, keep in mind, and has not been touched since then and thus, has not been updated with the new info, because I am literally an hour overdue from going to bed now (should've gone to bed before 4 am, is now almost 5 am), so I need to sleep the moment I hit submit on this.
There's exactly three possible worlds we live in:
-Both scum were off of Cakez/Suripoko. I find this doubtful, as it requires zero scum bussing and no scum voting SirCakez who in this situation would be town. So, basically impossible.
-Both scum bussed Suripoko.
-One scum bussed Suripoko and one was on neither Suripoko nor SirCakez.
The fundamental truth of those being the only possible worlds will be my foundation going forward.
We know the alignment of everyone voting SirCakez, the full spread: jjh 3p, Suripoko scum, and me town.
So, given that, there's precisely three worlds possible:
Scum didn't bus or vote SirCakez, being entirely among the mastina voters and Not Voting players. Given that LLD was voting me, that'd be 2/3 of the remaining players. This is the scenario which I find basically impossible. It'd mean that scum didn't want the towncred for bussing, but didn't pile onto SirCakez, who'd be town in this scenario. Also, pretty sure that this combo contains Bombay + Ivan, so yeah, this is NOT the world that we live in.
Scum double bussed Suripoko. Given that you voted Suripoko, Shiro, that'd narrow down the scumpool to 2/3 of {Rogue, T3, SirCakez}.
I'm most suspicious of all three of them overall, so this is probably actually the most likely, ESPECIALLY if SirCakez is a strong PR. Suripoko was a really weak scum PR, so was probably not a big loss.
The final world is one scum bussing, with one scum voting neither SirCakez or Suripoko. (This world is made most likely from SvS wagons yesterday.)
This would mean 1/3 of the Suripoko voters, and 1/3 of the mastina+NVers.
Suripoko(4): SirCakez, Rogue, T3,Shiro
SirCakez (3):jjh927,mastina,Suripoko
mastina(3):Lady Lambdadelta, That Idiot Ivan, StrangeMatter
Not Voting (1): The Bombay
GENERAL FINDING:
Unless we're living in World One, theremustbeat leastone scum bussing. It's required, it's mandatory. It's genuinely necessary. 1-2 scum.
GENERAL SUSPICION:
That the scum voting Suripoko did so with TMI.
WORLD ONE:No scum bussing; no scum on SirCakez
WORLD ONE SCUMTEAM COMBOS:
{That Idiot Ivan, The Bombay}: I don't think I need to explain why this scumteam is impossible. Their roles/claims and play all tells the entire story.
{StrangeMatter, The Bombay}: Given StrangeMatter jailkept Bombay N1 and Bombay did not know about this, this scumteam is imo impossible. Their interactions suggest not-scumbuddies.
{That Idiot Ivan, StrangeMatter}: The only scumteam combo that isn't outright impossible, but still rather unlikely. For this to be the scumteam, the scumteam would have needed to have not bussed Suripoko for towncred and yet, not hopped onto SirCakez in an attempt to save Suripoko.
There isoneway itcouldbe possible, I'll admit: if the scumteam had a misread of the gamestate. If the scumteam thought that I was an easier mislim than SirCakez thanks to your doubt on me and LLD's push on me, then they could've thought that piling onto me was better than piling onto SirCakez. So it's notimpossible, but that badly misreading the gamestate is something I think is incrediblyimprobable.
WORLD TWO:Both Scum Bussing
WORLD TWO SCUMTEAM COMBOS:
{SirCakez, Rogue}--I need to investigate this team combo. SirCakez looks like scum and Rogue's endorsement of my elimination when this is my towngame and notty should know it is suspect, but I need to look at the viability of it.
{SirCakez, T3}--this is an incredibly likely combo imo. I don't think it's coincidence that these two slots were the only two slots which were pressured to claim but then refused to do so.
{Rogue, T3}--I need to investigate this team combo. Rogue's endorsement of my elimination when this is my towngame and notty should know it is suspect, T3's lack of defense of me is suspect, and T3's lack of claim is suspect.
WORLD THREE:One Scum Bussing; One scum off of both Suripoko and SirCakez
WORLD THREE SCUMTEAM COMBOS:
{SirCakez, That Idiot Ivan}--literally writes itself as a scumteam. The two have been hard-defending each other the entire game, and while they ended up voting separately, were voting together for quite a while and they used the same logic on Suripoko. While Suripoko flipped scum, I genuinely think that the push on Suripoko was a case of TMI.
{SirCakez, StrangeMatter}--I need to investigate this to be sure, but if I recall correctly, StrangeMatter was suspicious of SirCakez. If I was right about that, this team would be unlikely.
{SirCakez, The Bombay}--Given Bombay's suspects, I am pretty damn sure this scumteam is incredibly unlikely, borderline impossible.
{Rogue, That Idiot Ivan}--I need to investigate this team combo. Rogue's endorsement of my elimination when this is my towngame and notty should know it is suspect, and Ivan's play still looks scum to me and the claim I still think is suspect.
{Rogue, StrangeMatter}--I need to confirm this but I think StrangeMatter had suspicion on Rogue? If so this would be unlikely as a combo.
{Rogue, The Bombay}---I need to confirm this but I think The Bombay had suspicion on Rogue? If so this would be unlikely as a combo.
{T3, That Idiot Ivan}--quite likely as a combo. T3's lack of defense of me is suspect, and T3's lack of claim is suspect; Ivan's play still looks scum to me and the claim I still think is suspect.
{T3, StrangeMatter}--I need to confirm this but I think StrangeMatter had suspicion on T3? If so this would be unlikely as a combo.
{T3, The Bombay}--yeah no, Bombay's push on T3 means not scumbuddies here.
So compiling scumteams by most likely to least likely, initially, I get:
MOST LIKELY:
{SirCakez, That Idiot Ivan}
{SirCakez, T3} = {SirCakez, Rogue}
{T3, That Idiot Ivan}
{Rogue, That Idiot Ivan} = {Rogue, T3}
{Rogue, The Bombay} = {Rogue, StrangeMatter} = {T3, StrangeMatter} = {SirCakez, StrangeMatter} (but all of these pending reread to confirm)
{That Idiot Ivan, StrangeMatter}
^^^^^^^^
LEAST LIKELY
(If I didn't list it I am outright removing it as a possibility)
So I've got 11 scumteam combos possible right now, I'll narrow it down when I can.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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VOTE: SirCakez
Yeah SirCakez is scum here.
If he were town then he wouldn't be just accepting the logic there while ignoring how he has all the information to know that I am town. He would be thinking about the flaws in it, thinking about alternatives, and thinking about things in terms of reads. With the analysis augmenting reads.
Except it has.In post 1449, SirCakez wrote:
ummm this has literally not happened this gameIn post 1444, mastina wrote:The two have been hard-defending each other the entire game,
I can give the receipts to prove it, and on prior days already partially did.
It's literally happening right now with Ivan not voting you. He literally prefers Rogue over voting you. Yes, he has you in his PoE (which is probably lip service to appease LLD), but he's zero desire to follow through on it and actuallyvoteyou. He'll vote you if not doing so would be a scumclaim, but otherwise, his lack of interest in wagoning you is apparent and has been the whole damn game.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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What part of "I haven't finished it", "I need more time", "I'm working on it", "it's incomplete", etc., was unclear to you Ivan?In post 1451, That Idiot Ivan wrote:mastina, your analysis combines your reasons for scum reading each individual as teams for the most part and mostly ignores how people justified their votes on Suripoko or elsewhere.
'Cause I made it pretty damn clear that my analysis was unfinished. You literally fucking told me to post it in spite of me having said it wasn't done. So you get analysis that, surprise surprise, isn't finished, isn't complete.
It's not that I ignored people's justifications for their votes.
It's that I haven't yet had the time to check those out and refine the analysis from that. It was my starting point. It was not intended to be the final form, the final version. It was not intended to be the end-all be-all of my contributions. It was a rough draft. I don't have a final draft yet, butyou fucking asked me to post what I had, and what I had was an unfinished draft.
Yes, exactly.In post 1451, That Idiot Ivan wrote: T3 is didn't spew a claim and didn't townread you.
T3 did not claim.
And more than that, T3 absolutelyshouldbe townreading me.
T3 has played more with me recently than any other player on mafiascum. He has seen both my towngame AND my scumgame. Beyond that? T3 is obsessed with meta'ing players. He has meta'd me in the past. In past games, T3 was able to look at my play and, with his meta knowledge, able to correctly reach the conclusion that I am town.
Here, he has gone out of his way to avoid giving a read on me. He knows that he can't say I'm scum without it being a scumclaim, and he knows that if he says I am town, it will basically prove I'm not bullshitting in that this is my towngame through and through. So the only thing he can do is what hehasbeen doing, repeatedly, consistently: refusing to give a read at all.
Because it's the only option where the scum do not get put at a disadvantage.
Yes.In post 1451, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Cakez didn't spew a claim, looks like scum, apparently defended me, and had too much info?
And he is also in the list of players who absolutelyshouldknow that I am town here. SirCakez has seen both my towngame and scumgame incredibly recently. He's doing absolutely nothing he does as town. He's doing what he needs to in order to avoid being the elimination--but that's it.
Yes, which is egregious because both Malakittens and especially notscience were around (and this is especially relevant for notty) in the Pokemon game. (For the record, SirCakez was there, too, and present for the parts about notty.) Why's this so important?In post 1451, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Rogue isn't defending you.
Because in that game,notscience saw me make those posts and should have calibrated his gauge on my towngame from them.Spoiler: I made these posts and many more like them
Malakittens saw me make those posts and should have calibrated her gauge on my towngame from them.
SirCakez saw me make those posts and should have calibrated his gauge on my towngame from them.
So none of them calling me town here is in fact: hugely fucking suspect, yes.
That would require me to have actually read the games where Pooky quickhammered as scum when frankly I don't read games I'm not in unless I'm a reviewer of them and even then I only skim.In post 1451, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Does it change your opinion that I had TMI if I tell you I was a player in both the games I cited where Pooky quickhammered as scum?
I realize the games were linked.
I just didn't click them.
(slight fix as I am not counting you, it's SC.) Oh I'm aware that not everyone who should know this is my towngame can be scum.In post 1451, That Idiot Ivan wrote:And by your analysis, there are three players who should "know" this is your towngame, and yet none of us do? (Counting notscience, T3, and SirCakez here). We can't all be scum.
Fuck, even LLD should know that this is my towngame. LLD has seen my towngame and my scumgame more than almost any player in recent history. (Only T3 exceeds her pretty sure.) She's seen my scumgame like three times or so and my towngame an equal amount. She absolutelyshouldknow that this is absolutely not my scumgame and yet she still fucking insists on keeping me in the PoE anyway.
And yet she's conftown set to die in spite of how she's basically gamethrowing in not realizing I'm town here.
The only reason I've not used much much much stronger language in terms of LLD here is,
1: I don't want to eat a ban (and the things I want to say to LLD's lack of townread on me very well might be banworthy), and,
2: there's already bad blood between me and LLD, I came into this game wanting tomendthe bad blood, not make it worse, and if I said what I wanted about the fucking conftown player who has every fucking reason to fucking know I am town here not seeing that I am town, it'd do exactly that, make the bad blood worse because yes I have some VERY FUCKING STRONG WORDS I want to say about that fucking refusal to acknowledge that I am town here for whatever fucking reason.
But I digress.
Mypointhere, is:
Yes, I am aware that not everyone who should fucking know that this is my scumgame, can be scum.
There's literally four of them, and one of them is conftown.
But the fact that they can't all be scum does not make their lack of saying I am obvtown any less suspect.
It means that the towns in them are fucking gamethrowing, yes!
It means that whoever is town in that group is a fucking moron because they have the knowledge/experience to know I am town, see that I am a suspect, and yet in spite of literally all their fucking experience telling them that I am town they are not defending me while I am under pressure.
But while the town players who know my meta are gamethrowing by not defending me, the scum players not defending me are playing to their wincon, so the lack of defense is still suspect from them.
Oh it's incredibly scummy.In post 1451, That Idiot Ivan wrote:What's your current take on Rogue, both how they jumped on Suripoko and their discussion of that elimination today?
But the thing is.
T3 is scummy; Rogue is scummy; SirCakez is scummy.
At least one is, by necessity, town, but I legit can't tell who is town in them because they're fucking all playing like scum. All of them. I don't know who the town is in them but whoever the town in there is they're literally playing the worst fucking towngame of their life because they're literally playing like scum in spite of not being scum. Because all three are basically scum in everything.-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Why ask what LLD has proven time and time again to be true?In post 1462, That Idiot Ivan wrote:mastina, how come you've spent so much time in your discussion of me talking about how I'm manipulating and pocketing LLD...and yet you've never asked LLD outright if she thinks I'm posting in the neighborhoods in a way that's meant to pocket her?
The evidence is in LLD's posting.
She has, not once, given the chance of you being scum real thought.
She asked questions about why you would do what you have done if you were scum--
But after I gave good answers to that?
Answers she then ignored?
She kept her read on you anyway--because she was never going to change it. Because she was already pocketed.
If she were serious in doubting you were town, then she would have listened to the responses to her questions there and engaged further there and taken it into consideration and thought about at least the possibility.
She has not. Because she's not serious in doubting your townness; she's locked you in as town, and that's all there is to that.
Thus: pocketed.
Inherent in the nature of being pocketed is not realizing you are being pocketed, Ivan. That's self-evident.
Do you think that if I asked SirCakez "do you think you are being pocketed in the neighborhood with Pooky" in Pokemon the answer would've been anything other than 'no'? Because inherent in being pocketed is not realizing you are being pocketed, the answer to "is it possible you're being pocketed" will ALWAYS be "no".
That's pretty damn self-evident. A pocketed player won't, when asked "hey are you being pocketed?", say yes.
That's like asking a scum player "hey are you scum?".
It's a stupid-ass question and you should fucking know that.
Well, multiple reasons, actually.In post 1462, That Idiot Ivan wrote: Or asked Shiro yesterday or today what her opinion is?
1: Shiro is not going to die any time soon. I've all the time in the world to talk more to Shiro. (Well not quite, but you get what I mean.)
2: Shiro is not a player I expect much from. Shiro isn't a player who I really expect to be able to bounce ideas off of. Shiro isn't a player that I expect to, if I give good analysis, for her to build off of my analysis. She might mightmightbe able to give me inspiration (and in fact, she did! Something Shiro said was actually why I got the starting point analysis that I intended to finish but posted the rough draft of--without Shiro, I wouldn't have made that rough draft at all in all likelihood), but she's not exactly a pillar of support.
3: Shiro is busy. And Shiro is always a low-effort, low-posting player. She posts very little and gives very little. That doesn't give me much to react off of.
4: All respects to Shiro, but my general assumption has been that Shiro has just been sheeping you/LLD in everything and has had a "brain shut off" game where she hasn't given thought to anything because of trusting you/LLD. Obviously, this could be a faulty assumption on my end and if so I owe an apology to Shiro for the insult, but if it's true, then me asking Shiro what her opinion is? Not gonna actually do much, now, would it, if her opinion is just a regurgitation of LLD's.
LLD is good, LLD is skilled. LLD is not a goddess of scumhunting. LLD might be Paragon-leveled in her scumhunting skills. That does not mean she is 100% accurate in her reads. She can, has, and does, make mistakes. She can, and has, townread scum strongly (and, inversely, she does push through eliminations on town that she thought were scum; we literally have proof of that from her D1 push on Dwlee).In post 1462, That Idiot Ivan wrote:Why do you keep talking about how skilled LLD is, and yet you assume she'd fall prey to a neighborhood pocketing from someone whose main she didn't know until recently?
And no player is immune to being pocketed in a neighborhood.
No player is immune to confirmation bias of being convinced a player who is scum, is town.
Not even LLD.
LLD is good. LLD is one of the best damn town players on site. LLD is probably one of the top ten scumhunters around active onsite. But LLD is not perfect. LLD is not 100% accurate. LLD makes mistakes. And neighborhoods are one of the easiest places to make mistakes on. Scum neighborhoods are disproportionately powerful.
LLD probably has an average accuracy rate of like 80-90%. But that's still a miss rate of 10-20%. And it can be higher in a specific game. LLD might have one game where she's actually in fact 100%, but the tradeoff to that is that she can have an off-day, an off-game, where she's less than 50%.
LLD's stance on you is that you're town, period. Outside of neighborhood content that she has not disclosed, her only reasons have been from your roleclaim and "why would Ivan conftown me". I've given reasons why you would conftown her as scum but she never gave them serious thought because she's made up her mind on you being town and has made up her mind that I am in the suspect pool (even though she has every fucking reason to, if she were thinking clearly, know that I am town here).
I know for a fact that LLD's read on the gamestate isn't 100% correct because if it were, then she would have me as town. Rather than inventing occam's razor violating reasons for me to not be conftown, she'd be looking at the facts and know that I can't be scum here.
This doesn't mean LLD is having an off game necessarily. If you ARE town, Ivan, then while LLD isn't 100% right, she'd be at that ~80% mark imo.
But if you are scum, Ivan, then this would be an off-game for LLD. And it's not a fucking accurate reflection of reality if you say LLD cannot have an off game. If LLD were honest with herself, and I would expect her to be in this regard, she would be the first to say that, yes, she has off games.
Now, granted, I'd expect a bit of self-delusion (bad term, sorry, can't think of a better one) in not recognizing an off-game until after the fact, after she's dead. LLD is not the kind of player I would expect to know that she's having an off game when she is having an off game. She's humble enough and honest enough to, after seeing the facts, realize, "this was an off game for me, sorry", but due to the passion behind her reads, the conviction she has behind herself (basically, she has justified confidence in her skills because she's right ~80% of the time and when you're right ~80% of the time, why would you think that you're at a lower percentage than that? You know from your extensive history that you're good, damn good, and thus have confidence in not being wrong), I genuinely don't think shecanrecognize she is having an off-game while she is still alive in the game she is having an off-game. (Similarly to Shiro here, tho, I am fully offering an apology to LLD if this assessment of her is wrong and she can recognize an off game when having an off game.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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Serious question.In post 1466, T3 wrote:i suspected he was
Has T3 given a single read on a player today?
I sure don't see one.
For that matter, what reads has T3 given this game?In post 1011, T3 wrote:Limming ivan is badIn post 1010, T3 wrote:Suri should die todayIn post 825, T3 wrote:bombay is null townIn post 698, T3 wrote:jjh is town after a reread during the night.
'Cause this is all I found except going way way back to super duper early.In post 264, T3 wrote:lld is probably town?
Not a single stated read on Rogue ("not getting townreads" is not aread).
No read on SirCakez.
Nothing on skitter.
Nothing on StrangeMatter.
Nothing on Shiro.
Nothing on me.
And even those opinions given being weak.
LLD probably town, but could bus.
Bombay nulltown, but could reassess.
You get the idea.
Why absolutely nothing said for half the players in the game and the weak-ass reads on the remainder?-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
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(I admit that I lack focus right now. I have four main scumspects; by necessity, two are town; I don't know which two are town; as a result, I don't really have a focal point; I'm kinda all over the place. But yes I'm pretty damn sure both scum are in {T3, Ivan, SirCakez, Rogue}.)-
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mastina She/HerFalse ProphetShe/Her
- False Prophet
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- Posts: 16670
- Joined: October 7, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
Bullshit. That wasn't you in Pokemon and you claiming it was is disingenuous as fuck, and this isIn post 1471, SirCakez wrote:in Pokemon I had a pretty strong sense that you were town that I am not getting hereexactlythe same me as that game.
Aside from the fact that my role when buffed by Shiro literally made me a Friendly Neighbor?In post 1469, SirCakez wrote:what logic points to you being town here?
How about the fact that this is my town meta ten times over and I left scumastina's range a long long time ago and that this is night/day different from my scumplay? Scumplay you've seen intimately and should know what it looks like? You've seen what I look like as scum; you've seen what I look like as town. And this isnotthe scumplay. Not even remotely. It's literally the opposite in every single way. Activity. Investment. Passion. Conviction. Presence. Mindset. Push. Literally every possible metric, this is outside of my scum range. (At least the scum range of me in the last three years.)
Because I, correctly, called Suripoko an elimination being pushed by scum.In post 1469, SirCakez wrote:and you did a ton to avoid voting Suripoko yesterday
Guess what?
It's basically mathematically impossible for Suripoko to not have been pushed by scum.
Meaning that I was right. There's at least one scum on Suripoko, with a chance of there being two.
In a mini, wouldyoujoin a wagon with two scum on it? Or would you fight hard to shut that wagon down because it has two scum on it?
Yes, I didn't consider the possibility that Suripoko was bussed.
But that's proof that I am town, because if I was scum then I would've known about the bus.
Well I am feeling too tired/lazy to do it for the entire game but I need not do the entire game to show it off:In post 1469, SirCakez wrote:okay give me those receipts please
a "hard defense" is what you're claiming so lets see it
Keep in mind that with a mislim today,In post 1490, That Idiot Ivan wrote:I don't want Cakez at any potential XyLim, but I don't think he's the right choice today.tomorrow is XyLim. Ivan HIMSELF pointed this out to LLD. Ivan pointed out that with a mislim today, tomorrow is mylo.
Ivan, in spite of saying he doesn't want SirCakez near mylo/lylo, wants to not vote SirCakez today, in spite of how if we mislim today,tomorrow is mylo. And Ivan KNOWS that a mislim today means tomorrow is mylo, he literally pointed it out to LLD.
So saying "I don't want SirCakez today" and "I don't want SirCakez in mylo" is literally cognitive dissonance.
The not wanting SirCakez today is to protect SirCakez; the not wanting SirCakez in mylo is appeasing LLD while she's still alive.