Mini Theme 2264: Fusion Upick | Post Game

[Enchant]

The same two picks combining on two players may have different abilities, regardless of either's alignment. Players with different picks than each other combining into their respective roles may have the same abilities, regardless of alignment.

Can someone explain this to me? This is my first fusion game, and while I get why Roden is getting scumread due to the sample role PMs, I don't understand how fusion games are supposed to work I guess. I'm happy to vote Roden because it looks like a prima facie scumslip. But before I do that if someone could either distill the mechanics of a fusion game or point me to a resource, I'd appreciate it.

It means if someone submitted MILLER and someone else submitted MILLER, then there's chance these roles can fuse with each other (there's instruction how it works), and result will still change, like you not getting pure Miller.

Mad science.

[Enchant]

I didn't realize you were here enchant. You run into this being scumread problem early on too I think.

It's not scumread problem, i am just poor with defence.

Either way, Almost50 scumread is undeserved, i see it as town who believed in scumslip. In particular, i would vote Roden too for that.

[Enchant]

Are you a fusion of Miller and Godfather?

I may be, I don't know what I am a fusion of.

This is a lie but that's fine because you're probably town.

Uh, my role PM did not tell me what my pick was fused with. Yours did?

It's in my role name and ability description. The sample Role PMs also make it clear what they've been fused with.

Very unclear wording, but no, that's not scumslip.

Like, if you SUDDENLY receive Rolecop ability, then you know.... That uh... You fused with Rolecop.

[Enchant]

He asked "NATURALLY" Reflexive.

Cops and Doctors are not Naturally Reflexive.

[Enchant]

Lucky you...

[Enchant]

Alright, I have townfeels on Almost50, and... Enchant, surprisingly. 141 and 142 feel pure. And I'm not sure if scum would go from "I would vote Roden for that too" to "that's not actually a scumslip" in the span of 4 minutes.

Everyone else is null or vaguely scummy. Can whoever is town step it up pls.

You called me?

[Enchant]

You called me?

Sure. Got any hot takes on the game so far?

I think Galron seems uninformed about this game and thus more likely town.

It's not because of claim "Wow first time", but style feels like he just sitted. I believe mafia would explain simple things for him.

[Enchant]

True, but in the case of Miller I think it would be to the benefit of the Mafia to out such a role. If Mafia gets miller, they can have a potential 2nd person back up their claim because they received miller as well.

Implying nothing, especially this early in the game. Just an observation.

Isn't Miller a specifically pro-town role? Wiki says is it's just a townie who looks dirty.

Also, if Mafia have a Miller, wouldn't that mean it's a mafia who looks green, and why on Earth would they out that? Unless I misunderstood something.

There's a different thing that interests me here and it's

who

submitted Miller as a pick, since it is bound to influence their role as well. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a Miller.

No.
Miller ability is "Looks Guilty for Cops". It's just happened most often it associate with Cop who see Miller as Mafia member. Universal Miller looks guilty for all invests i believe.

Mafia-Miller still give "Mafia" result.

Godfather is about making Mafia looks Town for checks.


But if Nathann is really "Miller-Godfather" like someone quessed, then there's someone who submitted Godfather. And i don't see anyone claiming that.

[Enchant]

There's a different thing that interests me here and it's

who

submitted Miller as a pick, since it is bound to influence their role as well. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a Miller.

You might wanna reread 27.

Firstly, okay, thanks.

Secondly, why on Earth would you do that.

I wanted to submit Tragic Lovers, but mod said it's not allowed.

How sad...

[Enchant]

True, but in the case of Miller I think it would be to the benefit of the Mafia to out such a role. If Mafia gets miller, they can have a potential 2nd person back up their claim because they received miller as well.

Implying nothing, especially this early in the game. Just an observation.

Isn't Miller a specifically pro-town role? Wiki says is it's just a townie who looks dirty.

Also, if Mafia have a Miller, wouldn't that mean it's a mafia who looks green, and why on Earth would they out that? Unless I misunderstood something.

There's a different thing that interests me here and it's

who

submitted Miller as a pick, since it is bound to influence their role as well. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a Miller.

No.
Miller ability is "Looks Guilty for Cops". It's just happened most often it associate with Cop who see Miller as Mafia member. Universal Miller looks guilty for all invests i believe.

Mafia-Miller still give "Mafia" result.

Godfather is about making Mafia looks Town for checks.


But if Nathann is really "Miller-Godfather" like someone quessed, then there's someone who submitted Godfather. And i don't see anyone claiming that.

I think I get it.

So, if

Nathann

is Miller-Godfather, a Cop who investigates him will get both red and green results and that is not linked with

Nathann

's alignment at all?

That's silly, but I guess it's a possibility.

Well... Something like that.

He also claims he will FLIP as "Mafia Town".
I am not sure how it will looks, but certanly funny.

[Enchant]

Nathann is not very good elim, because if his claim is true, he will flip without tipping on real alignment.

[Enchant]

Your role sucks right?

[Enchant]

RT can you vote me instead

[Enchant]

... that's not joke, my PR works only if someone remains vote on me at the end of day.

Suck to be me, yeah.

[Enchant]

It also seems to me that if Roden was indeed Town Vengeful, he shouldn't have said so. Because indeed, if he's Town, scum likely aren't going to want to hammer him... Which means if he does get eliminated, it's most likely Town doing the hammering.... Which means the role is now anti-Town.

So yeah, I'm calling the bluff.

Did you mistake Vengeful with Supersaint, because Vengeful can choose who to kill.


Also, i will try to quess (don't say if i am right). Your Vengekill works on people with Guns?
If so, it's not in particular useful.


Also, thx Galron.

[Enchant]

I will say, my role doesh't follow pattern like this, it's unique name, but with normal ability's.

[Enchant]

Like A50 is genuinely panicking and is desperate to deal my mis-elim so that his buddies don't have to waste their NK on me.

Why would anybody kill you when you have already said you're not an investigative??

Look, I'm sorry you rolled scum, and I'm sorry you F'd up. But look at the bright side: At least I won't be avoiding you in future games (which I was considering doing if you were town here)

Imo there's no reason to not keep Roden alive to Day 2 and "Then" elim, if mind doesh't change (and it often does). It kinda boosts chances to hit maf if he is real deal.
If mafia shot him, then... well cool? They did job for us.

[Enchant]

@Enchant: So, you come in to declare Roden's slip not a slip. Then when he fake claims and it nobody responds the way he wanted it you explicitly explain what he was hinting to fish for "roles with guns". The you suggest we can keep caught scum alive for a night so he can use his ability at least once. But of course you're not an accomplice or anything like that, God forbid.

Next please.

But it's not really slip if he received role like that.

[Enchant]

Roden, who you will target if you happen to be hammered?

It's more matters in case you missed of course, but atleast we will know.

[Enchant]

Actually it's truth, A50 as town do almost nothing even if endangered.

[Enchant]

Hopefully one day I'll get to play a game of Mafia where we actually play Mafia and I don't get lol elim'd over nonsense.

But you just described mafia.

[Enchant]

LEMON.

[Enchant]

VOTE: Roden

I am sick of this.

[Enchant]

I am again performing decisions i regret immediatly.

Either way, just hit maf and it's fair trade.
I quess.

[Enchant]

I am sorry, Roden.

[Enchant]

Someone have gun now. And because there's one NK, it's in hand of mafia, who will try to make elo quicker. I believe towm n would shot immediately.

I had hesitations, but i decided if even i wrong, it would be fixed by kill/check.

Also, i remind, my role works only when i am voted. Duh. So can you?

[Enchant]

Someone have gun now. And because there's one NK, it's in hand of mafia, who will try to make elo quicker. I believe towm n would shot immediately.

I had hesitations, but i decided if even i wrong, it would be fixed by kill/check.

Also, i remind, my role works only when i am voted. Duh. So can you?

Why would Town have shot immediately over scum?
If I had a one-shot vig, I'd want to be careful with it

Risk to die with this shot?
Bloodlust?
Just for fun?

Idk, i would shot immediately, so from this point i assume gun in maf hands.

[Enchant]

Nordom have valid points here.

[Enchant]

I still need someone to vote me, before proceeding.

[Enchant]

I still need someone to vote me, before proceeding.

So, am I to understand that you scumread Radical?

Yes.

[Enchant]

CSF, can you vote me?

[Enchant]

CSF, can you vote me?

I just have to do it once right? I don't have to keep my vote on you?

VOTE: Enchant
UNVOTE:

It works as long as you not voting someone else, so yeah it's fine.

[Enchant]

Wait it won't work if I vote anyone else today? Uh, I hate to break it to you...

Yeah. If you feel your vote NEEDED, then i probably can just find someone else.

[Enchant]

VOTE: Radical Cat

Also

[Enchant]

Someone tell me if I'm wrong here, but was Andante's ability basically a Lightning Rod? If so, they might have eaten extra shots, and explain why they died to whomever thought it was weird.

It only works on people who didn't visit anyone.

It means mafia performing kill should have visited someone else and thus imunne.
Andante was original kill target.

[Enchant]

Can you case Ircher? I see where it comes from, but doesh't hurt to repeat.

[Enchant]

... Okaaaay.

[Enchant]

... Okaaaay.

I mean, do you want me to spoon-feed you the answers here?

Yes.

... Okaaaay.

Why was my post the one you quoted before Radical's, the one you scumread?

Didn't understand this question.

[Enchant]

... Okaaaaay.

[Enchant]

What's your read on Rosen aside from the scum slip? What do you think about his a50 push?

Perhaps a bit pointless answering this

after

they've flipped, but - I didn't think much of his Almost50 push because it felt like a natural thing to do as either alignment. Like I said, the callout/"scumslip" felt very weak to me, and I think the most likely thing for town to do there is start scumreading that push, while the most likely thing for scum to do there is try to overturn the push onto the attacker.

I don't have much on him aside from the "scumslip". I wanna say the emotion and annoyance he showed is town!indicative, but this might be hindsight speaking.

Imo there's no reason to not keep Roden alive to Day 2 and "Then" elim, if mind doesh't change (and it often does). It kinda boosts chances to hit maf if he is real deal.
If mafia shot him, then... well cool? They did job for us.

VOTE: Roden

I am sick of this.

What changed from the first post to the second?

My sanity and inability to go against crowds.
I should have fighted it.

[Enchant]

I a still recovering from weekend.

Enchant, did you believe was that red or did you just lolhammer?

I had some paranoid tantrum and hammered, because i believed vengekill (or atleast check) will be worthy to try.

I am not happy with how it ended up.

[Enchant]

This means that there is probably 1-2 scum in this pool: (

Toogeloo, Cat Scratch Fever, Ircher, Radical Rat, Almost50, Enchant

)...

...and probably 1-2 scum in this pool: (

Flea the Magician, Nathann, Galron, Nordom

). I think it's probably easier to focus on the smaller pool of players first to find the (most likely) one scum hiding there.

The fuck

How it even works.

[Enchant]

Okay, thanks.

Second pool is really tricky.
One of them probably flips as "The fuck i know" alignment (Nathann).
Galron voted me to help.
There's reason for me to townread Nordom.

Uh we stopped at Flea i quess...

[Enchant]

At first I thougt enchant was claiming a guilty on someone, but I reread and found that I was reading something and registering it as a totally different thing

Can i just ask what you misread as guilty?

[Enchant]

Understood.

Also thanks for busting, i appreciate it.

[Enchant]

Claim actually worked opposite for me.

[Enchant]

I'm a bit paranoid over Enchant's requirement to be voted everyday as well.

@Enchant: Would you clarify, is voting for you good because it enables you, or prevents a negative function? Like, do you get to do something at night because you got voted, or does getting voted prevent you from dying or something similarly drastic?

It feels negative utility at the moment without clarification because you are asking town to basically lose a vote towards our daily elimination.

Will answering that help town?
Because i don't think so.

We need around half of votes to kill, so i don't think it's problem before lategame and at this point i will likely claim and we decide if it's worth it.

[Enchant]

Vote me.

I don't mind...

[Enchant]

Vote me.

I don't mind...

Good, more votes on Enchant, please.

I am not answering anti-town questions.

You voting me for this doesh't look any good.

[Enchant]

Also, i remind, my role works only when i am voted. Duh. So can you?

Seems to me like this question was already answered. If this information is anti-Town, why share it earlier?

It's not direct answer, and implue both variants.

I don't want to share, because it's basically "Are you worth to kill?" question.

[Enchant]

I had problem with it earlier.

[Enchant]

Thanks.

[Enchant]

Are Greeting alt?

[Enchant]

I don't think Greeting is scum, it's more likely Toog who tried badly to to answer with "Uh idk but i think it's Andante powerrole but i am not sure", while anyone who can read already know what happened.

Because i kinda wanted to ask same question, but exactly not wanting to look scummy stopped me. Really, even i know it's suspicious to ask this.

Question is valid i mean, why Andante die? Not sure if it's worth pushing.

[Enchant]

What in the fucking third party?

Mod DIRECTLY writed, there's 10 townies, 3 groupscum.
No manipulating, unless mod is lied directly in rules.
There's no way to make anything, but 3-head mafia, unless someone submitted Traitor, and even then.

Main reason was used to scumread me is not believing my claim, in the game, where PRs are not align-chained.
Ircher having "info" about third-party is something ultrastrange and i can clearly say it's lie.

[Enchant]

Here, I'll step up. I have reason to believe mafia visited Toogeloo last night.

???????
Why you claimed that.

[Enchant]

Here, I'll step up. I have reason to believe mafia visited Toogeloo last night.

???????
Why you claimed that.

Why not?

Either you have solid reason and want to push it, or you are regretting living and wish to bullet. That's only reasons i see for town to claim uselessly.

[Enchant]

First of all, I haven't claimed anything. Second, why is that useless?

No-no-no-no, you did by that very specific statement.

It was useless, because you not doing anything with it.

[Enchant]

Here, I'll step up. I have reason to believe mafia

visited

Toogeloo last night.

[Enchant]

Yes, because it's impossible statement otherwise.

[Enchant]

Just fuck it.

[Enchant]

One last thing. I know who's truly mafia and I'll drop a well-reasoned bombshell (hopefully) later.

Godspeed.

Bussing doesh't count.

[Enchant]

Aight, hol up. Gonna iso real quick to see if I'm onto something

You seem to be failed?

[Enchant]

Andante can't redirect ability. It only forces useless visits.
Basically it's useless anti-town role to annoy Watchers and simular roles.


There's... Many roles which mafia can utilise, i can't even predict. Bus driver for example, for swapping, or doctor for healing from potential gunshot.
But i find it's less likely actually, mafia have more incentive to visit town.

[Enchant]

Sorry, guys. I'm leaving the site because of nonsense matters. I'll shortly be replaced. I enjoyed playing with you guys and the "fusion u-pick" setup was a great idea. gg and godspeed.

Bruh.
Kinda ok...

[Enchant]

Thanks for hammering self without anyone voting me.

[Enchant]

Can you atleast SAY what you will do?

[Enchant]

Still didn't worth it.

[Enchant]

Welcome to Potential Elo.

No one voting.

[Enchant]

Uhuhuh.

I don't know how to start honestly. I probably skip my dissapointment, because i kinda did same mistake day 1.

[Enchant]

I quess i will wait before Toog come and start to throw balls at me again, it will be hilarious.

[Enchant]

Should we massclaim?

[Enchant]

I can split my votes.

I 100% agree that dwlee was the wrong clear. From my PoV, they were already lock town, and as an investigative, they were already a threat to scum.

What's done is done though.

Busy at the moment, will be back later after a few more slots check in. I disagree with Enchant that we are in potential MeLo here, only 4 players are dead.

9 People alive.
6 are Town.
3 are Mafia.

We elim wrong: 5 Town, 3 Mafia.
Because Mafia have gun from our VengeSmith (Don't even ask why i think so, townie would shot already at someone), the will simple doublekill and we end up in parity.

Like yes, you are doublevoter, but you still can die and it's still parity.
If gun in town hands, then we lose nothing from being cautious with votes anyway.

Questions?

[Enchant]

Ircher claimed ascetic to prevent potential checks.

Disapprove this statement.

[Enchant]

Ircher probably hardly tipping he can target people "Dousing" them and then "Ignite" and create hood with them. Did i quess?

Why he can't say that directly and in clear manner?
Idk.

[Enchant]

Aye.

I am Town Siren. I submitted Lighting Rod of course. Probably i am reason why Andante role so sucks.

I passively charm everyone who voting me, and then not voting anyone else (They can unvote or vote self though). At night i can sing and redirect every charmed person on me.
And that's it. I only redirected Galron on me N1 so far. At night 2 i did nothing (thx).

[Enchant]

So you're saying your begging for votes was with the knowledge that it fucks up everyone else's actions?

I looked on it from other perspective.

But yes.

[Enchant]

Would you redirect Mafia night kills if the mafiosi doing the kill was also voting you that day?

I redirect all actions, including nightkills.

My plan was to prove people as not killers (or die gloriously and draw my voter with me next day, how luck) but i actually screwing around whole game. Why i have problem with drawing votes when i NEED it...

Just in a case, everyone who i redirected Knows about it (via special song message), but only if it affected them at all. Galron called he was roleblocked (or thought so) but received message, so i writed him as NotInvestigator/Killer. Idk what he used on me.

[Enchant]

Reading hold up.

[Enchant]

VOTE: Ircher
This is going to happen regardless. I'd rather sooner than later.

Fucking stop, you not helping.

Would you redirect Mafia night kills if the mafiosi doing the kill was also voting you that day?

I redirect all actions, including nightkills.

My plan was to prove people as not killers (or die gloriously and draw my voter with me next day, how luck) but i actually screwing around whole game. Why i have problem with drawing votes when i NEED it...

Just in a case, everyone who i redirected Knows about it (via special song message), but only if it affected them at all. Galron called he was roleblocked (or thought so) but received message, so i writed him as NotInvestigator/Killer. Idk what he used on me.

In this case, I have an idea. Possibly even a good one.

We eliminate Ircher, because Ircher is pretty plainly scum to my eyes. However, we also have two questionable slots vote for Enchant. Then, if anyone but Enchant gets nightkilled, we know at least one scum is outside the two we have voting Enchant. If Enchant does get nightkilled, unfortunately it doesn't say much, as scum could just WIFOM kill him, but then we just proceed as normal.

I really like this idea, and I think we should do this.

Enchant, does your ability work on yourself?

It's not visiting ability and i don't have other, so no.
If you are asking about theory, then idk, there's no direct "You can't charm self", so probably i can charm self. I need to clarify that.

Enchant I can see where he's coming from with trying to disprove people from doing the NK. But looking at his ISO, I also feel he wasn't really trying to get his scumreads to vote him, which would've had yielded the most impact from his role, so it could also be manipulating town night actions. Looking back, I'm not really sure I understand why he was voting for Rat yesterday.

You need firstly understand, my ability more powerful when there's less scum, so i didn't plan to really die (it was risk i accepted, not goal). Secondly, it's pretty less useful if i claim, so i didn't even wanted to say my role works like that, and at best draw votes somehow. I didn't want to sit uselessly more though.

Idk what you don't understand, you vote for people you want to be ded in this game.

[Enchant]

Mod confirmed that he didn't lie about Toog alignment.

Potentially, it doesh't prevent Innocent Godfather shenigans, but nah.

[Enchant]

Gonna be honest and will admit, i feel pressure from our IC.

Yeah, just by existing. Idk how to explain, i just want leave all problems on him and not disrupt. Or i am just not in mood idk.


Either way, i can't do anything important to mafia while they have full numbers intact, only possible catch bullet. Idk if this is important enough to sacrifice votes, but go ahead.

[Enchant]

I think it almost quarantee that Toog survive next night, if 3 people vote me, and Cat Scratch target another one.

[Enchant]

... Eh.

Radical Cat, why you targeted self

[Enchant]

I am not sure if this even valid action.

[Enchant]

Wait i am idiot

[Enchant]

I really don't see any utility in my role tbh. Actually I think I'm negative utility.

WHAT

[Enchant]

In what fucking world redirecter is negative utility.

[Enchant]

Galron, didn't you target Radical Rat last night accidently?

[Enchant]

In what fucking world redirecter is negative utility.

There's another component to my role where the person I initially target investigates as the opposite alignment.

Ok and...

Wait that's all?

Go force scum to kill self, you should't target town anyway.

[Enchant]

I redirected Galron on myself N1.

[Enchant]

It's time for decision.

We need to pill up 3 votes on me, and collect enough votes to elim.

[Enchant]

I don't believe Flea.

[Enchant]

Noraa, CSF, vote Me.

VOTE: Ircher

[Enchant]

It's possible you were already hammered. I haven't checked. If that is the case, I think Enchant might also be suspect for an early vote.

Possibly Noraa and/or CSF if Ircher wanted to ensure scum members weren't on Enchant.

My vote was 4.

[Enchant]

9 players alive, right?

Your vote counts for majority so Majority Vote is 6 votes.

[Enchant]

Vote me

Bottom text:
Vote me

[Enchant]

UNVOTE:

I will be here.

[Enchant]

Okay, we pretty much fucked but still salvagable.

No need to remind it's Elo?

[Enchant]

Oh.

Toog was Godfather+VIP/Whatever i quess?

Funny.

Either way, i want everyone to:

1. Enlist your claim and suggested role. Yes, again if you did it, makes easier to look.
2. Say all your actions performed, from day 1 to last night.
3. Who the fuck you suspect
4. Who the fuck you doesh't suspect.
5. Idk what to instert, i just consider 4-lists are lazy, so it be 5-list.


I start.
1. Town Siren, Lighting Rod.
2. Singed N1, redirected Galron on me. Nothing N2. Singed N3, redirected Cat on me.
3. FLEA
4. Galron
5. loflofloflfolseoflesfefregre

[Enchant]

You think too fast, but sadly your assumption is not correct directly.

Also thanks for dodging my questions.

[Enchant]

Cool, i am talking with myself.

[Enchant]

So techically you could prevent Galron from shoting last night?

[Enchant]

Yea, unless your action can't be redirected for any reason.

[Enchant]

It can't.

[Enchant]

What your role even do?
Because there's no kills.

[Enchant]

I mean additional.

[Enchant]

And you holstered because...?

[Enchant]

Damn, regardless if that's true, i did nothing but harm.

[Enchant]

Yes.

I can't redirect something which not exist.

[Enchant]

Dwlee99 died during the night. They were a

Town Lookout.

Spoiler: Town Lookout

Welcome Dwlee99, you are a

Town Lookout

Each night you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action, you will learn if more Mafia aligned players or town aligned players visited your target.
If the number of visits is equal between town and mafia, you will be told as such.
If no players visit your target you will receive the same result as if there were equal amounts of town and mafia.
You do not see your own visits in your results. The alignment you see is the alignment a cop would see at the time the action was performed.
Your pick was [Redacted]

You win when all threats to the town are dead.

VOTE: Flea

[Enchant]

I'm still not sure why I didn't get a singing message though, is it because I holstered?

Or it's just because Enchant is scum?

Where is chain?

[Enchant]

Prime Toogaloo, Galron, A50 on respective nights.

This is a scumclaim.

Nordom/Dwlee received a result that Mafia visited Toogeloo N1.

VOTE: Flea the Magician

I missed this but scum doesn't just claim actions that scumfirm them. scum would come more prepared than fae seems to be.

Flea did.

Only possibility where Flea is not mafia, if mafia visited Toog TWICE.
Give me example why mafia visit someone twice without killing.

[Enchant]

that action claiming is closer to a clear than a scum claim.

Ok, give reasoning where two mafia members visit random townie n1.

[Enchant]

that action claiming is closer to a clear than a scum claim.

Ok, give reasoning where two mafia members visit random townie n1.

no one said 2 mafia members visited toog night 1. did you not read?

No, you didn't.

Look Dwlee99 role PM again. He said Toog was visited by Mafia before. It means on N1 there's more mafia visitors on Toog than Townies.

There's need 2+ Mafia members visiting Toog for Flea to be town.

[Enchant]

Galron have direct gun.

Cat have "Watcher Vig", idk what the fuck it means even now, but probably she could target two people and shot if first target visits second one. So it's pretty safe to use to protect obvious targets.

[Enchant]

CSF, just watch Galron and Vig someone who you think maf.

Town have like zero reason to visit him... I think.

[Enchant]

No point.

[Enchant]

gg i was scum.

[Enchant]

CSF, who you targeted

[Enchant]

I want to hear CSF (and perhaps everyone else) actions first.

[Enchant]

Well i obviously had none as well.

So about Noraa. It probably would't happen with me in Mafteam, because i mostly ask most dumbest questions anyone rarely ask... But considering i didn't notice before RT brought that up, well that was thing.
Just question, like, why Norra just doesh't walk in Scum PT for instructions (like "Bus be it's rip") or just lurk.

[Enchant]

You could say "ANYONE COULD BE SCUM" instead and it would still make sense.

Like, even i know RT is unlikely maf after that.

[Enchant]

Why?

[Enchant]

There's little hope we have.

Mafia more likely to receive role than benefits them and vice versa.

If we look at Flea, seems like mafia claims truthfully. They knoe what picks are fusion FOR reason, to make up fakeclaim. They didn't bother seems.

I will be honest with ya, but i didn't believe Toog claim, nor Flea. No, not like that with Toog, i mean VIP. Blatant lie, town couldn't receive these kind of roles.
About Flea... Well. it looks neutral, but when Flea survived, i realised how fucked this claim. Slip literally didn't matter much, just saved some time.

Need just to collect everything in list and think who would screw up. I of course could do, but it's deep night and when it's deep night i turn even more stupid, i need sleep

[Enchant]

Alright, why do that as Town then?

Cuz town dumb and don't knoe mafia elelefl

[Enchant]

If that's not Noraa/RT, then it's CSF/Almost obviously.

Remember when we killed... Who we killed d1 again he gived gun on random and also said that Almost50 is mafia confirmed, and after that on next day everyone was like "Hm Almost is town" and then literally forgot this happening

[Enchant]

Anyone who's been paying more attention than me have a list of known possible fusions and submissions at this point?

Known claims:

Miller + Innocent VIP(?) = Noraa
Vengeful + Gunsmith = Roden
Lightning Rod + Visitor(?) = Andante
Vengeful + Cop(?) = Greeting
Watcher(?) + Cop(?) = Dwlee
Innocent VIP + Double Voter(?) = Toogeloo
Neighbor + Arsonist = Ircher
Arsonist + ??? = Flea
Neighbor + ???(Something Reflexive) = Almost50
Lightning Rod + ???(Something with votes) = Enchant

Unpaired known picks, may possibly be combined with each other:

Gunsmith + ??? = ???
Watcher + ??? = ???
???(Something Reflexive) + ??? = ???
???(Something with votes) + ??? = ???
Double Voter(?) + ??? = ???

Roles followed by a question mark indicate that it's not QUITE confirmed that's the actual component role, but I'm making an educated guess. "???" indicates that I don't feel confident assigning a proper guess.

I use this as little cheat list, but redacted. So therefore, it should be like that for now:

1. Miller + Godfather = Noraa. Idk what role name is.

Spoiler:

I think this obvious now. "Anti-Town" role. Not much to say.

Can't act.

2. Vengeful + Vigilante = Roden. Town Vengesmith

Spoiler:

Yep. No Gunsmith. I don't see anyone who would even submit that. But then i realised... Vigilante was obviously submitted. Vengeful+Vigilante makes sense, because vengeful obviously can't be fused in... Vengeful. Common, it's so lame. "Killing Role".

Limmed d1 and gived gun to Galron.

3. Visitor(?) + Lighting Rod = Andante. Town Force-Visitor

Spoiler:

I submitted LR personally so i know why is that. "Anti-Town" role.

Existed.

4. Cop + Vengeful = Greeting. Town Revealer

Spoiler:

Not funny, didn't laugh. Was biggest mistake in game imo (about lim, role overall is fine). "Investigative".

Limmed 2d and revealed Dwlee as Town.

5. Watcher + Cop = Dwlee. Town Lookout.

Spoiler:

Because we know that Greeting submitted Cop, it means Dwlee submitted Watcher. "Investigative".

First Night: Toog was visited by Mafia.
Second Night: Death and thus nothing.

6. Innocent Child + Godfather = Toogeloo. Town Mayor

Spoiler:

While Innocent VIP was submitted, on practice it's Innocent Child. Godfather is "Authority". It makes sense for Toog to become "Imunne" to frames and have 2 votes.
... Uh. "Support"?

Revealed Day 2.

7. Neighbor + Arsonist = Ircher. Town Ringmaster

Spoiler:

Sorry, Ircher. This game is Circus already. We don't need you to create more. "Communication".
It's actually most harder to deduce! Ircher maked no sense and didn't claim visits.

But seems like Circus was planned on 3-4 Day?

8. Arsonist + Absorber = Flea. Mafia Cryomancer

Spoiler:

Finally, Mafia outplayed town in notcompetence. OR we think so? "Blocking"

Night: 1 Toogaloo
Night: 2 Galron
Night: 3 A50

Noticed? Atleast some of them are truth. If they are truth all, it means A50 is not mafia, because mafia have no benefit in playing sub-zero against self. It's only issue if some Galaxy brain, where Flea+RT make up assblast plan with fakeing actions like that, bussing and then pushing someone else out of cliff next day. Then yes, it makes sense to throw some bullshit.
But you know what? I don't think so.
HARDLY pointing at Noraa+CSF team.

9. Absorber + Neighbor = Almost50. Reflexive Neighbor

Spoiler:

Ugh... No commentary. "Communication." Claims he creates Hoods when someone visits them. "Communication".
It's another evidence that Flea did target Almost50. Of course, claiming otherwise for Flea!Maf/Almost50!Town is direct accusation, so they could claim truthfully. And i think it's truthfully, because... Why. Do they look like galaxy brains? This claim is easy to fuck up. Like, anyone visiting Almost50 fucks up it.

On N3 created Hood with Flea The Magician.

10. Lightning Rod + Miller = Enchant. Town Siren.

Spoiler:

Yes, plottwist, i register as "Not-Town" for investigations, so i know that i am Miller. Yes, i had good reason to hide this fact. "Redirect".

N1 Singed, redirected Galron on Self.
N2 No Action
N3 Singed, redirected CSF on Self.

11. Bus Driver + Condemner = Galron, Town Defense Attorney.

Spoiler:

It actually gives me a pause. I need to write other things. But targets of Galron will turn in "Condemner" targets for RR. "Redirector"

Last message of Galron is... "I gonna use my shot toonight". And yet, there's still one death both nights later. Of course i don't believe Galron is idiot and shot Too, but who then? Roleblocker walks around seems? Or Galron instead... Walked to Flea? Because that's what happened if RR told truth. Why Galron lied to us? But i don't see even for RR!Scum reason to lie about that. Losing cause.

N1: Someone (Redirected on Enchant).
N2: Radical Rat. He can't control Enchant, because Enchant is not visiting.
N3: Flea The Magician. He can't control Radical Rat, because Radical Rat is not visiting.
N4: Nothing, because Flea was target and got elimmed.

12. Condemner + Bus Driver = Radical Rat, Prosecutor.

Spoiler:

Strange abomination. "Redirect"

Had Enchant as Target d2.
Had Radical Rat as Target d3.
Had Flea The Magician as Target d4. And he was Elimmed. Therefore RR had Bus Drive.
On N4, he performed swap Almost50-RR. Probably, Galron+Someone else would be more effectively... But i asked CSF to protect (sorry). So not wanting to get shot by accident is obvious wish.

13. Vigilante + Watcher = CSF. WatcheVig

Spoiler:

Good on paper, hard to realise. "Killing"
Overall these aimings are effective.

N1: Watched Nordem, Vig Greeting. No success.
N2: Watched Dwlee99, Vig Flea. No success.
N3: Holstered. Was redirected on Me anyway, so useless.
N4: Watched Galron, Vig Noraa. No success.

Visitor from Andante doesh't have Pair. I don't know if i fucked up anything, but everyothing else looks right and making sense.

Overall after that, i think team is simple Noree+CSF.

Counterarguments?

[Enchant]

Oh also.

Who damn have Innocent Child? It's not paired as well.

[Enchant]

Imo if CSF is Mafia and didn't lie about claim, simple targeting "Watch Etc, Vig Radical Rat" gives instant win with 2/5 chance.

[Enchant]

Unless they not both team...

I need tea.

[Enchant]

What is your pick then?

[Enchant]

I noticed what i fucked up, it's not Godfather right.

Then you are Miller+Innocent Child and Toog was... Innocent Child+... Erm.

Okay that's hard.

[Enchant]

Yes, plottwist, i register as "Not-Town" for investigations

you are lying. this cannot be true.

Why?

[Enchant]

Either way, still can't understand:

1. With what you was paired if that's not Godfather. And this is... Not godfather, because both you and Toog could't receive it at same time.
2. What is deal with Visitor of Andante.

[Enchant]

Yeah, i understand.

I just don't understand how it possible.

[Enchant]

Alright again.

1. Miller + ??? = Noraa. Idk what role name is.
2. Vengeful + Vigilante = Roden. Town Vengesmith
3. Visitor(?) + Lighting Rod = Andante. Town Force-Visitor
4. Cop + Vengeful = Greeting. Town Revealer
5. Watcher + Cop = Dwlee. Town Lookout.
6. Innocent Child + ??? = Toogeloo. Town Mayor
7. Neighbor + Arsonist = Ircher. Town Ringmaster
8. Arsonist + Absorber = Flea. Mafia Cryomancer
9. Absorber + Neighbor = Almost50. Reflexive Neighbor
10. Lightning Rod + Miller = Enchant. Town Siren.
11. Bus Driver + Condemner = Galron, Town Defense Attorney.
12. Condemner + Bus Driver = Radical Rat, Prosecutor.
13. Vigilante + Watcher = CSF. WatcheVig


So, Visitor and "Somerole" which you and our Mayor panda received are remaining.

[Enchant]

... Aren't Bus Driver looks off for Galron as well?

[Enchant]

Nah, need someone more expireinced with that kind of staff.

Let's try process of elumination.

2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13 can be exluded as full pairs which makes sense.
So we have these unsolved fully:


1. Miller + ??? = Noraa. Idk what role name is.
3. Visitor(?) + Lighting Rod = Andante. Town Force-Visitor
6. Innocent VIP (OK we get him back) + ??? = Toogeloo. Town Mayor
11. Bus Driver + Condemner = Galron, Town Defense Attorney.
12. Condemner + Bus Driver = Radical Rat, Prosecutor.

First 3 have one role unknown, last 2 are big assumption which probably wrong.

[Enchant]

Condemner is Third Party role, which wins when their target (random assigned or Town) are LEMONED via vote. Then Condemner leaves.

Of course we don't have Third Party, but mod allowed to sumbit them. RR had ability which depended on successful elumination of targets, which are appointed by Galron.

[Enchant]

Yes.

There's also thing.
Innocent VIP which was submitted by Toog was Redirector as well.
VIP can choose person every night and redirect kills from self on him (For example if someone shots VIP, targeted person die instead). Impressivly lolbalanced.
So Galron could be also ???+Innocent VIP. But it's very strange.

[Enchant]

Enchant, why did you not claim Miller earlier?

I didn't want to affect my NK chances and believed real Cops are slim chance, so decided to risk it out. There was also little catch to try decapitate anyone who claim innocent result on me while redirected.

I think i played enough good to pass without being targeted to check, so i think i didn't fuck up.

[Enchant]

Lighting Rod is passive role, which redirects everyone in game on Self every night.

[Enchant]

I don't think there's doublevoters either.

[Enchant]

Enchant, why did you not claim Miller earlier?

I feel like that isn't scum indicative and i believe the claim so shrug. like enchant could be scum, but it's not for not claiming miller.

There was a claimed cop end of D2 though.

Although i looked back on the end of day posts and enchant was only there at the tail end of the day after greeting was already hammered.

Yeah. It was hard to resist urge to scream "DON'T CHECK ME".

I did it.

3. Visitor(?) + Lighting Rod = Andante. Town Force-Visitor
6. Innocent Child + ??? = Toogeloo. Town Mayor -> confirm IC
7. Neighbor + Arsonist = Ircher. Town Ringmaster -> confirm neighborizer
8. Arsonist + Absorber = Flea. Mafia Cryomancer -> confirm arsonist
9. Absorber + Neighbor = Almost50. Reflexive Neighbor -> confirm neighborizer
10. Lightning Rod + Miller = Enchant. Town Siren. -> confirm miller -> confirm lightning rod,
11. Bus Driver + Condemner = Galron, Town Defense Attorney. -> confirm condemner
12. Condemner + Bus Driver = Radical Rat, Prosecutor. -> confirm bus driver, confirm condemner

thiis is the list that couldn't be completely matched up

I know my pair is legit.

Absorber+Arsonist is unique case.
For Flea this role STEALS ABILITY.
For Almost50, it's just... Reflexive Neiborizer?
Either way it's Almost50 submitted that and it fits Flea. I don't see any role which provides other option for Flea.

[Enchant]

So... Mafia did fakeclaim?

[Enchant]

It's easy to break brain with these actually.


But most importantly: Direct Approach is not way.
Just in a case, Almost50 submitted Absorber and had Reflexive Neiborizer. He "ABSORBS" people who visit him in PT and releases at end of day.
Flea as well, he visits people and then nullife their power in down. Of course not in style of absorber, but not in style of roleblocker as well. But he could visit and then "Snatch" all power.

... Or all what i say makes no sense and we overthinking self. Either way. Fuck.

[Enchant]

Btw *Fae, sorry bad with pronouns.

[Enchant]

... eh, i think it's really overworking for nothing. It will be interesting to see how was close i to truth.


Either way, back.

Who is mafia team for ya?
CSF, Noree?

[Enchant]

Just in a case, i started making assumptions after there's no Gunsmith claims, but Vigilante and Vengeful pair was viable.

Does Vengeful+Vigilante even result in Vengesmith?
Via ability, not.
But with other sense, it could be possibility.

Also mod is sadist.

[Enchant]

Do you think A50 faked visit from Flea?

[Enchant]

Who is mafia team for ya?
CSF, Noree?

Is there more to this beyond PoE?

I didn't understand.

[Enchant]

I'm mostly curious why you think I'm scum

Simple method.

A50 is probably town due visit from Flea.

Radical Rat probably town due revealing Flea.

OR IT WAS GENIOUS GAMBIT TO CURBSTOMP IDIOTIC TOWN WHICH DIDN'T EVEN MANAGE TO SCORE ONE KILL ON MAF BEFORE?... Nah.

So it's Noraa+You.


Honestly i am still not sure, atleast Noraa protects self pretty genuine.

[Enchant]

I'm mostly curious why you think I'm scum

Simple method.

A50 is probably town due visit from Flea.

Radical Rat probably town due revealing Flea.

OR IT WAS GENIOUS GAMBIT TO CURBSTOMP IDIOTIC TOWN WHICH DIDN'T EVEN MANAGE TO SCORE ONE KILL ON MAF BEFORE?... Nah.

So it's Noraa+You.


Honestly i am still not sure, atleast Noraa protects self pretty genuine.

[Enchant]

I actually considered this team for a bit, but i simple believe in Radical so much...

[Enchant]

ok this game is dead how about i just rock paper scissors with a50 and we call it a day lmfao. i feel like town has more hope winning that way anyways

How you can play Rock/paper/scissors without cheating though.

[Enchant]

If we lose, we lose.

I will wait to look if mafia quickhammer.

[Enchant]

Then why you not voting back

[Enchant]

Bah

[Enchant]

I am trolling this game from start by lighting rod submission.

[Enchant]

I am trolling this game from start by lighting rod submission.

You can troll even more by voting Noraa. If it's me + CSF we win. If it's not then Noraa doesn't get hammered still. Now THAT is a troll move.

"If you doing fast, people will laugh"

I mostly do anyway, but that's not case.

[Enchant]

VOTE: Noraa

You bought me with promise of Ban. Can't wait for. I need rest from mafia. This shit is addicting.

Either way... I didn't want to vote anyone else either, if we lose, we lose.

[Enchant]

I AM REQUESTING MERCY FROM TOWN IF I AM WRONG. I NEED IT.

[Enchant]

Let's swap places, you vote and i will confirm self as not Almost teammate?

[Enchant]

OH NO TANTRUMS. AGAIN.

[Enchant]

UNVOTE:

[Enchant]

Not hammering.

Ez townread.

[Enchant]

Well, if Noree is Town, then you and i am also town due nohammer.

It could still be RR/Almost50 team but only potentially.

[Enchant]

RR didn't hammer.

It's scum.

[Enchant]

IF Noraa's Town, the only possible partner for A50 left is me. And I already know I'm not Mafia, so... Permission to hammer or should CSF tag out first just to be thorough?

I can wait before you all end with all business.

[Enchant]

fine gg a50 and radical

Why RR not hammering you then?

[Enchant]

gg i was scum, it was whole trolling

[Enchant]

Sad.

[Enchant]

CSF, if you are town, SHOT MAFIA PLEASE.

IT SHOUDL'T BE TOO HARD.
Like... What are odds.

Well if you quess mafia kill it's 1/3...
+ You need quess mafia as well. If you exlude me, then... 1/2

Yep, it will be hard.

[Enchant]

Almost50 is scum for not hammering Noraa!

[Enchant]

Damn i catched hysteria again, i need sleep.

[Enchant]

Eh? What you about?

If you was town, CSF shot only can kill mafia. It doesh't stop Kill from occuring. Therefore at best it's 1vs1 tomorrow. There's no way for town to win after your elumination (assuming no one lied about ability), therefore game should end.

[Enchant]

If game doesh't end, you are outed as Mafia regardless of what PARADOX you flip.

RIP.

[Enchant]

Are you maf RR.

[Enchant]

I am not. I would have let someone else point out the guilty on Flea before bussing.

No mastermind bussing plan?

I am not sure if i am glad or dissapointed.

[Enchant]

... Okay?

[Enchant]

How CSF died?

[Enchant]

Oh.

Funny.

[Enchant]

I had dream of receiving fusion of Lighting Rod+ PGO and murdering whole town N1.

[Enchant]

I'd love to see the final fusion setup and how the mod put it all together. Curious to see what happened with the VIP of my pick, if it got thrown out or fused as the Bus driving action or something else. Where did the double vote come from, etc...

It was posted already.

[Enchant]

Galron could shot me n1.

[Enchant]

I don't mind multiball, but it turns game even more chaotic. Some don't like that.