Anyway
From what I've read so far [page 4ish] I'm slightly suspicious of Lastsurviver I found the way he was interacting with rhinox to be scummy. I'll put my vote on him for now until I'm done reading the thread.
vote:Lastsurvivor
In post 485, Voidedmafia wrote:DCL: Explain to me how you knowhewasn't scum. That line screams that you have some sort of inside info abouthim, to be honest.
In post 472, hiplop wrote:i think I see what Macro is getting at.
He's either scum or very fucking smart town, I'm not sure which though :\
In post 518, DCLXVI wrote:-Fishy and Last survivor have voted for the exact same players the entire game: Sleepless assassin, rhinox, funky/DCL, macro/theo/malee, Alice.
----These 5 players they voted for are the top 5 wagons so far in the game.
In post 135, Rhinox wrote:I was waiting to see IF funky would respond before throwing my thoughts in here. It is certainly by the book to pressure less active players into posting more, but unfortunately this is about all we're going to get from funky. Fortunately, what we're getting matches town-funky more than scum-funky right now. Unfortunately, my scum meta hardcopy vanished in the crash so I can't confirm. But my recollection is that scum funky is more active and involved, whereas town funky lurks and has no idea what to say most of the time. I think funky just has more fun playing scum. Since I can't confirm my meta I'm not going to rely on it 100% the whole game, but I'm probably not going to be interested lynching funky today, espectially if the reason is his activity. If I were a vig though, he'd be at the top of my list.
In post 535, Fishythefish wrote:
For pushing the major wagons - yes. They were pretty good wagons. Lots I've started or pushed before they became popular (Rhinox, Malee, funky mostly). Some others I've sheeped on. Is any of that scummy?
In post 539, Voidedmafia wrote:DCL: You're ignoring the two other wagons on Macro spot, yknow.
In post 545, Voidedmafia wrote:Why did you only talk about the wagon on Malee and not the ones on Theo and Macro?
In post 552, Fishythefish wrote:OK. I'm flip-flopping like crazy here. I can't convince myself of anything at all. I'm not really seeing the LS case - his recent responses to me are pretty convincing. For the Macro wagon, Malee was scummy, theo was mixed and Macro's been solid. But his claim really puts me off - claiming non-VT and then VT seems unlikely to stop a lynch, as opposed to say claiming cop or doc outright. It's not the sort of thing I've ever seen scum trying to pull. Here's my final answer (up to deadline shenanigans):
UNVOTE:
VOTE: DDD
Read DDD's ISO. It won't take long. There's nothing in there that looks like he's trying to catch scum - the closest he comes is with the Amished tell, when he wants the support of others. He's never really pushed anything.
My access will be pretty poor for the next couple of days. I should get on to vote near deadline if necessary.
In post 555, Macrophage wrote:DCL: Can you link me to a DDD-town game?
In post 566, Nachomamma8 wrote:Help us find scum and fuck everything else.
This is the classic, accuse someone, than accuse them for defending themself. Something that LS is against as he recently asked me not to do it to him.In post 49, Lastsurvivor wrote:So you get out of the RVS by making fluff posts? This is your first real post that I'd consider to be content, ftr, and it's defending yourself.
In post 354, Lastsurvivor wrote:@alice: As much as I agree with your points on DDD (hence why I was doubting my read and switched my vote), you're not going to get enough momentum for a lynch before deadline. So you should totally vote funky too.
In post 495, Lastsurvivor wrote:I unvoted her because I thought over it all again and realized she was probably town.DDD didn't have anything to do with it and I'm not sure where you're getting that from.The post you quoted about DDD had nothing to do with why I unvoted her. I was just trying to get Alice to unvote DDD and vote Funky.
In post 500, Lastsurvivor wrote:Well, your acting as if I ONLY unvoted Alice based on her points on DDD. That's not true. It was because of her play in general and my rethinking of the case that caused me to unvote.So, yeah, DDD did have something to do with it.But you're overstating the significance.
In post 512, Lastsurvivor wrote:I mistyped/lied when I said that her points about DDD had nothing to do with me unvoting.BUT you're still misinterpreting the post. I saw Alice's general posting after I posted my case and started doubting myself. Basically I started doubting myself when she actually replied to my case. Then I looked back on my case and realized it was crap and unvoted.Yes, DDD had something to do with it, but it was only a part.If you think of it in that context, I'm not sure how what I originally said doesn't make sense. I think you're just being too literal with your words.
In post 209, Lastsurvivor wrote:
Alice, what encouraged you to switch to funky? That's a textbook wagon hop right there.
In post 223, Lastsurvivor wrote:
the fact that you BW hopped doesn't really make it any less bad.[/size]
In post 434, Lastsurvivor wrote:But yeah, wagon hopping isn't scummy. Nice try.
In post 571, Lastsurvivor wrote:I know this point has been said before, but Macro's survivalism is really starting to bother me. In the beginning of the game I was trying to disregard it as a tell since, after all, he was coming in with a BW on him. But now I think it's clear that he has a shot since there are two counterwagons. Yet, he's still going on.
The behavior doesn't consist with a VT either. A VT might have panicked while they replaced in, but I don't think they'd still be in survival mode now. I'd think they'd be doing what Nacho suggested Macro should do. Find the scum before they get lynched and leave the town with something to work with from their flip.
In post 574, Lastsurvivor wrote:#1: Eh. You've gotta keep in mind that this happen in the very first pages of the game. Of course there's going to be "reaching" involved in my case. But that's what creates content, discussion, etc. I basically knew the case was ridiculous going in, but I was just seeing how Rhinox would react. He reacted fine, so I backed off but did a reaction test. The post looks appeasey because I wanted to see how Rhinox would react when I didn't unvote after I totally put on a different tone. Nacho called me out first, so I didn't even bother following through with the test though.
Basically, it's pretty unfair of you to call this case scummy for all the reasons you said it was unfair for me to do it: It was early game, and I was trying to jumpstart it and create content.
In post 574, Lastsurvivor wrote:#2: :/ Why even bother making a point if you're just going to say "Yeah, and I know how he's going to defend himself, but I don't believe him!" I mean, sorry that I don't blindly charge on with my reads if I start to doubt them. But feel free to continue calling this a scum point!
In post 574, Lastsurvivor wrote:#3: Oh, wonderful, now you're beating this dead horse too.
In post 574, Lastsurvivor wrote:
#4: Er, sure, I have been involved in all the major bandwagons. But how many of those bandwagons have I actually hopped onto?
Rhinox: Wasn't really a major wagon when I hopped on. Only had one vote: Fishy. You might not count this as a major wagon since it never got more than two votes, though, but I'm assuming you are since you thought it was scummy.
Sleepless Assassin: I was the first person to seriously vote SA (Alice had a RVS vote on him). So he definitely wasn't a major BW when I voted him. Two others voted SA, so I guess you could consider this one of the major wagons. But I arguably made it one of the major wagons.
Malee: Wagon hop.
Alice: I was the first person to vote Alice. It's quite unfair to accuse me of being involved in a major BW for Alice when I could not have known that it would have been a major BW.
Funky: I guess I was the third person to hop on this wagon, so it was barely a wagon hop.
Macro: Wagon hop.
So...3/6? Yeah, you're overexaggerating on this point. You can't really accuse me of being involved in major wagons if the wagons haven't materialized.
In post 574, Lastsurvivor wrote:
#5: Err, no. Wagon hopping is a null tell and become a scum tell depending on context.
#209: Was a question. I was trying to figure out the motivations for the wagon hop since there was little explanation provided by Alice.
#223: Yeah, context is important in this quote bro. 4n tried to lampshade that he was hopping as if that would make it less bad. Really, it was the lampshading that bothered me, not the hop. Later on, I say that as long as he explains why he changed his vote later I don't mind.
#434: Yeah, BW hopping really isn't bad if you just explain your vote and stuff. Then it's a null tell: Not really anything.
In post 582, Lastsurvivor wrote:#1: Busted. I already said it was a reaction test early on in the game way before anyone called me out on it.
#2 + #3: Are dead horses that I've already debunked. DCL is unwilling to reargue them, so I'm striking them from the record.
#4: DCL provides two subpoints: That I've been on all five major wagons,and that I voted them to "get the most votes." Subpoint 1 doesn't really prove anything scummy, but he is right, I have. He hasn't proved the second one. The post he provided as evidence for the second point (#518) proves the first point. But not the second point whatsoever
In post 570, DCLXVI wrote:As I've shown earlier LS has been voted for the 5 players who have received the most votes this game, he has not voted for anyone else.
In post 578, DCLXVI wrote:2. You had voted for the 5 people to get the most votes over the course of the game.
#5: Busted. DCL can't look at context, even though he claims he can.
In post 697, kortul wrote:Also, i do not agree with his view that "wagons on Theo and Macro were based mostly off of the wagon on Malee" - theo is equally (if not more) tainted the slot.
In post 713, Macrophage wrote:@DCL: Do you have your own thoughts on why it's suspicious or are you just copying everyone else? (The latter is ok btw)
In post 724, Macrophage wrote:Really, the pushing on me from DCL, Debonair, Kortul, hiplop and voided are what I'd expect from scum
In post 724, Macrophage wrote:@Kortul/hiplop/voided/debonair/DCL: Are you likely to continue seeing what I post as scummy or do you think you could come to see me as town?
In post 731, Macrophage wrote:You haven't, but the way you've done it is scummy.
These responses have actually been interesting. Voided's is scummy. Kortul's I'm not sure about. DCL's is townish.
In post 734, Macrophage wrote:Also, can you answer the question about that reason for me changing my reads?
In post 745, Macrophage wrote:Also, why aren't you voting me?
In post 753, Macrophage wrote:Is there anything I could do that would cause you to unvote me?
In post 756, Macrophage wrote:There's the *not liking me calling him town*. Firstly, this is exaggerated because I just said something he said was townish. I can't see myself having any problem with someone saying that to me. Secondly, he claims that his response was not actually townish or scummy. I think this strongly indicates scum, because it's trying too hard to justify his reason for voting me, but also because if I'm town, and someone says something I said was town, I would naturally believe that what I said was indicative of town. I could see scum thinking that they didn't do anything townish in a post though. Thirdly, if he believes that I had him as a townread, how does he think he knows my reasoning for calling him town? which I didn't even do! And he's not even asking why I found it townish, which I would expect before going on about how my reasoning is terrible.
In post 724, Macrophage wrote:@Kortul/hiplop/voided/debonair/DCL: Are you likely to continue seeing what I post as scummy or do you think you could come to see me as town? If you're town, please answer this question seriously. I understand what it's like to think someone scum and want to get rid of them for a clearer read of the game regardless of their alignment.
In post 730, DCLXVI wrote:That really depends on you. If you act like town I hopefully will see you as town. If you act like scum I will most likely see you as scum. I don't see you as definite scum right now.
In post 731, Macrophage wrote:These responses have actually been interesting. Voided's is scummy. Kortul's I'm not sure about. DCL's is townish.
In post 756, Macrophage wrote:Since the beginning of the day, it's seemed a lot like he wants to suspect me, but has been too hesitant to get on my wagon.He hasn't really mentioned anyone else as possible scum, which I don't really know how to explain, but I think town would consider other people as scum while making up their mind about one person.The thing that has made me think DCL scummy is his vote on me in 748.
First->The reasons he presents are interesting. As expected, there is the voided read change.The second point is hard for me to figure out. Possibly scum trying look convinced that I'm scum? It's really unnatural considering the reasons for his change in opinion of me from 746, which I'll get to now.
There's the *not liking me calling him town*. Firstly, this is exaggerated because I just said something he said was townish. I can't see myself having any problem with someone saying that to me. Secondly, he claims that his response was not actually townish or scummy. I think this strongly indicates scum, because it's trying too hard to justify his reason for voting me, but also because if I'm town, and someone says something I said was town, I would naturally believe that what I said was indicative of town. I could see scum thinking that they didn't do anything townish in a post though. Thirdly, if he believes that I had him as a townread, how does he think he knows my reasoning for calling him town? which I didn't even do! And he's not even asking why I found it townish, which I would expect before going on about how my reasoning is terrible.
The fourth point is really bad and I can easily see scum putting it there just to justify their vote better.
So, back to what I was saying earlier. I don't see how these two poorly thought out additional reasons can lead him to go from making his mind up about me to being convinced I'm scum, especially considering his cautiousness by not voting me. It doesn't make any sense from town, but it does fit together for DCL-scum being concerned about jumping on my wagon and wanting to have sufficient unique reasoning to support it. Even the vote post itself leads me to believe this.
In post 865, kortul wrote:Where are the reads you promised like two weeks ago? You never answered my question on your case about Macro. While i disagreed with some of your points on day 1, i liked you general activity and logical thoughts, but today you are a shadow of yourself. I waited since you were V/LA, but after your return you are active all over the forum but not here. I do want to hear your thoughts and answers.
In post 845, Voidedmafia wrote:Speaking of the VCA, DCL, are you going to go back to it?
In post 865, kortul wrote:I actually agree that this post of Macro doesn't feel like coming from scum,
In post 937, Sleepless Assassin wrote:Probably the best lynch today and he already has a miniwagon, so let's do this.
In post 906, Rhinox wrote:OK well I've read through the last 10 pages or so, so I guess I'm officially caught up. But I really don't have anything grounbreaking to say right now.DCL and alice now magua are still townreads for me.
In post 968, kortul wrote:DCLXVI, can you help me with the following? I am confused by your "Just to be clear, I don't intend on voting macro or DDD wagons just to save myself from getting lynched as I think they are town." If you are town, you definitely know only your own alignment, so why sacrifice yourself for someone else? I don't see any scum motivation here, just don't understand the mindset, can you explain your thoughts?
In post 794, Fishythefish wrote:So, the case on Macro. I think it sucks. Points I can find against him:
- His original vote on Voided. I see nothing scummy about it at all.
- His turnaround from thinking Voided is scum to town. I can't see a scum motivation for this at all - Voided was dead set on Macro, and appeasing him wasn't going to do Macro any good. And the timing makes it really fit with Macro-town-giving-up at that point; I can really see Macro thinking that the argument he'd had with Voided made Voided look ok, and he just didn't care about consistency.
- The claims. I don't think they look scummy. I don't think scum are likely claim not-VT and then VT - that's just not how you
getting lynched.
- His turnaround back to thinking Voided is scummy. It happened a while after he attacked Voided, and they'd interacted in the mean time. I don't see why this is scummy at all. How is this a particularly scummy change of opinion?
- Defending himself by saying he is town. This isn't typically scummy, and I can't find any scummy examples of it in Macro's play.
- Calling DCL town with poor reasoning. This is pretty weak; DCL's response is what a townie *should* say, and to call it townish is hardly unlikely.
In post 1003, Magua wrote:In post 999, DCLXVI wrote:unvote:fishy
been thoroughly analyzing macro's reads, I don't think fishy is scum any more.
Elaborate pl0x.
In post 478, Macrophage wrote:Other than that, I'm not really sure. There are a quite a few things I've found very townish about Fishy throughout, like his early play, and asking to be put at the top of my will, but his continued presence on my wagon and the unvotes which seem like scum trying to look they're considering things when he's actually not changing his opinion at all, make me think he's scum.
In post 1028, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:I'm curious why he should claim now with no one threatening a hammer.
In post 1029, Voidedmafia wrote:Agreed. Mag and I are the only people who can hammer when he's at L-2 (Rhinox and Fishy are alread on him), and while I can't speak for him, I'm not entirely sold on Kortul-scum. It sounds very much like he's anticipating one of us coming in to finish off Kortul or something, and I don't really like that sentiment.
In post 1036, Voidedmafia wrote:DCL, please explain where at all I've indicated I would definitively lynch Kortul. I've stated that, if it comes down to it at the deadline, I'd lynch him over Fishy, but that does not and should not mean that I want him dead now.
In post 1027, Voidedmafia wrote:PoE to me dictates that Kortul or SA, or Mag would be where I'd place my votes today, though they're not all bad choices.
In post 1063, Voidedmafia wrote:Your 1062 is so informative, too.
In post 1067, Magua wrote:@DCL: I didn't ask why you found him scummy. I asked why you found him scummier than myself, Fishy, or Sleepless.
I will elucidate: Assuming there are 3 mafia, and, FYPOV, knowing that you are not one of the three, which do you feel is more likely:
a. Both of the other mafia were bussing Macrophage, or
b. 0-1 other mafia were bussing Macrophage and 1-2 mafia were not
In post 1078, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:And if they're quickhammering scum, what's the issue exactly? Shouldn't we be grateful for another dead scum and someone who is incredibly likely to be town given a quickhammer on scum?
In post 1141, Magua wrote:Please elucidate how in your head you're holding the idea that you're willing to lynch both myself and SA.