Mini 1729 - History Mafia II END

[Starbuck]

Hey guys, I have a room full of teenage robot nerds. I'll be catching up later this evening.

[Starbuck]

Hey y'all, apologies for the delay. I'm the Vice President of the Extra Life Jacksonville Guild and we had our big 24 Hour gaming marathon event yesterday from 8 am to this morning at 8 am. Plus, I did 12 hours at my fellowship on Friday. Apologies for that lack, but it was the weekend after all. I've got a few free days from now till Weds, and I expect to be fully caught up by then.

[Starbuck]

Okay, but your slot has done literally nothing all game so we really need to hear from you before the end of this day phase. Good luck with your offline stuff.

That was just this past Fri-yesterday. I just needed to sleep and I've been gradually catching up. In any case, it is good to know that I come in with a clean slate.


Starting on Page 1....

Lots of distracting talk in the first few pages. I like roleplaying, but it's been kinda killing my concentration.


Dwlee vs KT is weird. It feels like trying to add posts/be active for the sake of doing it and/or distancing. Like I can't really see the Town motivation behind either of them.


Knowing Scorpius' alignment, I don't really care for gummmybear's take on him in #163. Nor do I like Sir Bastion's #189 for voting based on dislike of the posts and not giving reason.


KT's "everyone is guilty until proven innocent" statement is odd because it is blatantly untrue.


Continuing on that note, I'm not a fan of gummmy's string from #193 to #195. In 193, he states his further suspicions of Scorpious and calls Call of the Wild as town. Looking from the frame point of now, those are two flipped townies. It feels off to me, like trying to spread himself around to make himself appear to be doing something.


KT's over-the-top response in #204 is highly suspect, especially those deflections. "Look at all the other people! Don't look at me!"


I could have gotten behind Call of the Wild's gummmybear vote, but voting based on being wordy is pretty terribad.


I do not like Dwlee's vote on Scorpious in 233. No reasoning to back it up.


And KT delves into meta.......TL/DR.


Ending Bottom of Page 10.

[Starbuck]

Sorry guys just saw the prod.

I dont have any good excuses for today. I've left this linger far too long for my own good and for the good of the town.

VOTE: starbuck

i dislike the "showing you are catching up" by listing out thoughts on the early game and promising more later on is just information and padding, it's just there to show you are being a good replacement and doing your bit to catch up.


Contrast and compare to Pignash who while wrong and his case post a bit too selective on the quotes for my liking is straight into scumhunting. Not saying he's town but

its how one should replace in to a game.

Stick your neck out and get in someones face.

That's all for now.

I didn't realize there was one single way to replace into a game? I catch up and I note things of interest to me as I read because I feel it is important to look at everything and not just skim through. Are you really going to vote me because you don't like the way that catch up/play?

[Starbuck]

Just checked and yes she does.

OK

VOTE: unvote

Don't get why people do that personally I never do a big series of catchup posts when I replace in and I do find them not particularly helpful from a town perspective.

But each their own

Hmm

Why don't you find them helpful? I think it's great from a town perspective because here I am coming in with a fresh set of eyes and looking at everything that has gone before. I might pick something out that the rest of my town missed, or be able to expound on a pattern that I see. Are you really being that elitist that you deem my way of catching up as scummy before I even get to the end?

[Starbuck]

Starbuck can you vote for Aristophanes?

I'm currently in the 20s for pages and the inane banter is killing me.

What's the case on Aristo?

[Starbuck]

Just checked and yes she does.

OK

VOTE: unvote

Don't get why people do that personally I never do a big series of catchup posts when I replace in and I do find them not particularly helpful from a town perspective.

But each their own

Hmm

Why don't you find them helpful? I think it's great from a town perspective because here I am coming in with a fresh set of eyes and looking at everything that has gone before. I might pick something out that the rest of my town missed, or be able to expound on a pattern that I see. Are you really being that elitist that you deem my way of catching up as scummy

before I even get to the end?

All of the above is very true

none of it requires multiple long play by play posts rethreading the game.

Thats the issue I have, its a big info dump which I personnally dont find useful for a number of reasons which if you want to discuss it I'm more then happy to but to put it simply I dont see the benefit of showing the play by play when you can do that yourself in a notepad or an email or even writing by hand and you present to us instead is a case or a reads of the players of the game up to the present.

As for finding it scummy. It's a 50 page game and you are doing analysis at possibly 10 pages a post? It's a lot of information dumping but no action which could very well be a form of stalling. I could see a play by play post if one had replaced in mid day 1 or even late day 1 where it's 10 or so pages altogether. But a 50 page one just looked like stalling to me. But Spiffah pointed out that this is how you do it and I checked and it looks true so benefit of doubt.

I find it useful because it keeps all my info and thoughts in one spot, so that when/if I die, the town can then go back to my thoughts or I can easily go back in my own ISO if I need to refer to something. Mafia is a game about information, perception, and suspicion. If I'm not putting every single tiny thought that I have out there for the rest of my town to consider, then I'm not doing my job as a member of the town. This is like the fourth game that I've played/replaced into since coming back to MS after a two and half year hiatus. You can go back into my past games when I was playing a few years ago, and see that when I replace in, I catch up the exact same way. It's important for me to read through and get my own feelings/reads on people, rather than relying on everyone else. I would think that being thorough would be appreciated.

I just happened to stop at Page 10 earlier because I went out for Veterans Day lunch with my nieces, so I posted where I had gotten up to before I left the house. It just coincidentally ended on Page 10. Why are you so worried that I'm adding my thoughts to the game? What are you worried about that I might discover and share with everyone else? I find this freak out over my catch up to be horribly suspicious.

Don't you have other things to worry about, like actual scumhunting, rather than grill me about how I catch up?

[Starbuck]

Starting on Page 11...

I dig the input coming from BeardedCat. Lots of questions/looking for clarification going on and look they kind of catch up like I do. I wonder why Sir Bastion didn't vote them?


I don't really care for KT's #269. "I do this as town and I do this as scum" coming from the person/subject at hand is nothing but WIFOM.


Can someone explain to me what a "naked vote" is? Some new school MS lingo or something?


Can someone remind Dwlee and KT that there is a rule on MS that you don't talk about ongoing games period? Not on the site, not off the site, not on FB, not on scum chat. You just don't do it.


So this turn around with KT and Dwlee is weird. One moment, they are going at each other, then they simultaneously gang up on Scorpious? How did anyone let this go on?


OMG, so much inane bullshit/banter. Good lord. Does Metal Sonic post anything that contributes to the game?


I am really liking Spiffeh's thorough wall in #371.


I don't really understand what's so town about Sir Bastion at this point in the game. Can someone break it down for me?


I don't understand why Call of the Wild leans scum on Spiffeh. He's dead now, but I'm hoping he elaborates on that read further on. Beardedcat asks him to elaborate, but he completely ignored the question.

i don't understand how you two are approaching the game ... all i see is a banter/troll not playing the game properly at all

This is rich.


KT's push onto Scorpious near the bottom of Page 16 feels quite forced. How did no one seem to hop in the middle of this? I can't blame Scorpious for getting frustrated. I would have, too, were I in his shoes. Nice to see that Sir Bastion felt the same.

you know what i'll stop playing for today but just remember Scorpious litteraly told me to F off and to go away so i'm felling kinda forced out just remember that Scorpious screamed at at kid that just wanted to do well in a game YOU GUYS HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS ONLY A GAME just don'y lynch me while i don't play bye

This AtE is TERRIBLE.


It's nice to see that scum hunting is warranted over reads lists in this game. Gosh, that's a wonderful relief.


I'm not sure if Metal Sonic is lazytown or scumtastic when they come in on Page 19 and say that they have a null on Spiffeh and no remembrance of anything he posted.


Reminder to myself to go back and ISO, Errantparabola. If I take the time to dissect his awesome posts now, I'll never get through this catch up.


Ending Top of Page 20

[Starbuck]

This is all from Page 21 because I've found a ton to respond to....

I don't like KT's response to Scorpious in #510 because he takes Scorpious' words and twists them all around for his own benefit and makes it seem like Scorpious is discrediting anyone under the age of 18. I can empathize with Scorpious as frustrated town. Hell, it's taking me longer than I want to get through this catch up because of the ridiculous and inane babble. It must have really sucked to be in the thick of it all.

Additionally, KT's push in this post just rubs me the wrong way completely from the personal attack ("he is literally the most immature person here") to taking that personal attack and asking the question ("Is that something a townie would generally do?"). I can answer that question and I say YES, that is something a townie would do when they are frustrated and feel that the Day is just being taken over by tons of fluff and not much pertaining to the game.

KT feels awfully arrogant amid this exchange.



Scorpious' #512 is interesting. Bastion, how did you go from Creeper is picking at Scorpious to Scorpious is goading Creeper in such a short span of time?

@EP

Explain to me why Bastion has devoted entire wall posts to me being scum.. And they seemed to get longer as I become a more viable candidate. Again. When I flip.. Just note the effort he put into lynching a Vanilla..

isn't the most common scum fakeclaim VT early game or counter claim in MYLO/LYLO

How did no one jump on this? Seriously?



For the first time, I'm disagreeing with BeardedCat in their #519. "Annoyingreading" them? As I'm reading through this, I'm getting quite the air of arrogance off KT. I don't like this realm of defense of KT and, lesser, Dwlee whatsoever.

I think it's pretty shitty to scumread someone or not based on how many nulls they have on their reads list that was given near the beginning of Day 1. How can you expect anyone to have more than one or two people they think are town and one or two people they think are scum? It doesn't make sense to me, at all, and it's why I haven't really liked this reads list push that I'm seeing on MS, now, all that much.

I mean, just recently, in a game that was abandoned, I was asked to give a reads list. I did that and immediately was jumped all over because I had more nulls/unsures than town reads. A reads list, other than who someone thinks is scum, isn't something that I find to be all that telling. In my case, in that game, the fact that I was, basically, unsure on the majority of the players because (1) I've just gotten back and knew one person in my game (who was part of a hydra) and (2) just needed more time and information to figure it out, didn't seem to matter. I'm very suspicious of those who jump all over someone who is blatantly unsure.

In the manner of these reads lists, I find uncertainty to be more pro-town than certainty.

I do like that you broke down Scorpious' list and asked him questions/for clarification/helping him through his obvious frustration.

[Starbuck]

Starting on Page 22...

Dwlee and KT seem to be taking this new/young thing way too personal. I mean, I'd consider Dwlee a new player since he has just over four months on site. That's new in my book. Just because you got all of your town reads right in your most recent completed game doesn't mean you aren't new to MS. It doesn't equate. In any case, though, why not stop making excuses and step up to play the game?


It's pretty obvious that Scorpious is trying to work through figuring out who he wants to vote for at this stage when Sir Bastion asks in #533 as to why Scorpious isn't voting for anyone. I don't understand the redundant question.


At this current point, Scorpious is at L-3 with Sir Bastion, KT, Gummmy, and Dwlee on the train. I already don't like KT at all. Gummmy and Sir Bastion aren't my faves either. Dwlee isn't all that bad, but I feel like he's sheeping with KT.


I can't say that I don't like the jump onto BeardedCat because they could easily be scum trying to look helpful, but the way this wagon formed is suspect. Too much sheeping.


Metal Sonic seems to be dancing around this thing stating that Call of the Wild has crumbed. Typically, a Power Role (which CotW was) would do that. If Metal Sonic picked up on it, why would they call it out if they are town? CotW's death seems to be squarely on Metal Sonic's shoulders at this point.


I don't understand where Metal Sonic comes from saying that Gummmy is transparently town in #602. I haven't really seen it, and unfortunately, Metal Sonic isn't here for me to further question on that.


The swaps onto Ari for just not being here are weak. I don't like these vote swaps.


So I don't get the attacks on the different heads of the hydras, like this thing where one head of BeardedCat is busy, but the other is here and contributing. They should be considered as one character/person within the realm of the game, not two. Not to mention, it makes things hella confusing.


Oh wow, finally some actual substance from Metal Sonic in #628. I can agree with most of what is said here. A+ for standing up for Scorpious and saying what needs to be said about BeardedCat. This has been bouncing around in my brain as I read.


Glad to see BeardedCat call out Metal Sonic in #643 about not remembering anything Spiffeh posted.


Could Metal Sonic and BeardedCat be TvT? Both are coming to the table with points that I easily could have made and I like it.

Note for myself: Go back and read BeardedCat's huge wall in 645

@BeardedCat - you say in 657 that there is one scum in CotW/Spiffeh. With CotW's Town Flip, what is your opinion on Spiffeh now?

I'm also not a fan of you discrediting Metal Sonic's huge post/push on you as "so bad." Metal had a ton of great points and for you to just sweep that under the rug is rather suspect.


Ending Bottom of Page 27

[Starbuck]

What time is 10 pm GMT on EST? I forgot.

[Starbuck]

I'm still working through, but not caught up enough to be okay with placing a vote. I'll keep pushing through today and on the overnight within the game.

Sorry, guys.

[Starbuck]

We have 4 hours. I'm here. Relax.

I'm looking at Aristo's claim and ISO because I'm not just going to hammer because you say that I should, because of pressure, or because you're threatening me.

They are spot on about Woodrow Wilson, the 19th Amendment, and his support of allowing women to vote.

[Starbuck]

Whoa, dude, really?

And that's the guy that took KT's spot right? Good to know.

[Starbuck]

I was trying to do some quick Wikipedia research on our two previous flips to see how much the claim aligned with the other town flips, but you know, can't have some patience.

[Starbuck]

Starbuck did you think we would lynch anyone else in four hours?

No, but I wanted to have some kind of information before I placed my vote. If that information didn't align with the claim, I was planning on hammering, but now due to pignash's rash action, we'll never know now, will we?

[Starbuck]

I'm not all the way through my catch up, but Bastion is at the top of my list and would have been in the running for my vote.

I seriously have had no opinion on Aristo because there has been nearly nada when it comes to contribution.

[Starbuck]

I'm unable to vote. Boo.

I'll continue on my catch up, though, and hopefully add something useful.

[Starbuck]

I plan to do some lynch comparisons and such, too, once I'm through fully catching up.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the Top of Page 28....

100% agree with BeardedCat in #685 on Metal Sonic's splitting of reads for hydras.


After the MS/BC back and forth, Dwlee chimes in that it's TvT. What's so TvT about it?


I should note at this point that Aristo has 4 votes (my slot, Spiffeh, Dwlee and KT). Now that Aristo has flipped town, I feel it's important to look at this later when my catch up is over.


Ahh, and look gummmmy points out this pattern of Dwlee and KT/pignash voting for the same people in #710. With gummmy's town flip, I think this should definitely be considered and is a pattern that I'll be looking for later on. In this same post, however, he is against an Aristo wagon. I'm interested to see his turnaround for Day 2.


Something to note in #725, Errant says:

Ari is an easy mislynch. I don't like how people were either quick to vote him or quick to support a vote on him while voting someone else. If aristo is town then there is scum in that pool.

However, on Aristo's lynch from yesterday....

Errant is voting for Aristo in #1272 (Votecount 2.4), but isn't on the lynch in #1350. I'm just looking at the Mod's ISO for now, but given that comment above, it's like Errant seemed to remember that they were defending Aristo on Day 1 and wanted to be off the lynch.

Additionally, I'm not comfortable with Errant calling both KT and Dwlee town. I think if one is town, then the other is scum, and I'm highly betting on KTscum over Dwlee.

And I don't necessarily see what's wrong with voting for someone but wanting someone else lynched ultimately?

Once you admit that a vote is for pressure or another reason, then it ultimately loses the solid ground in which it stood on. I find it odd that you would say something like this, and be okay with someone not voting for their top scumread.


Lots of talk about people posting elsewhere, which isn't indicative of anything, and still talking about the actions of each head of the hydra. Seriously, this is kind of why I don't care for hydras. I'll play them every now and again, but this distraction is just continually awful.


I really dig gummmy's #745 wall on BeardedCat. I'm going to need to come back and re-read this again.


And here's BC's reaction in #747....

You know who else are good at being scum? Metal Sonic, Call of the Wild, and Bellaphant. Possibly some other people too but I don't have experience with them to say either way.

I want to note this because (1) deflection and (2) Call of the Wild is now a flipped townie. Would scumBC include a buddy on that list?


I don't care for Spiffeh's "Ew, when did Scorpious get down to only one vote on him" in #766. I like that Metal Sonic pushes Spiffeh on this, and obviously, Scorpious' reads were real because he flipped town. KT's jump onto this conversation, in #775 is awful.

Ending Top of Page 32

[Starbuck]

Starting at the Top of Page 32....

Aristo finally comes back in #778 and I agree with his position on KT and Dwlee. I like his questions to everyone else.

And there are far too many null reads. If you have so many null, why bother making a list if not to look busy?

This, right here, is why this new school reads list thing is pointless.


I dig CotW's call out of Spiffeh's defense of KT in #781. At this point in my reading, I'm trying to recall if Spiffeh has said anything in the negative about KT, even slightly, and I don't think so. I'll have to go read some ISO when I'm done, too. Jesus, I keep adding to my to-do list.


And MS got banned. Whoa. I just had to look up as to why and didn't realize it was all connected with that other stuff. Le sigh.


I think BeardedCat has a great points about Spiffeh in #788 and #790 about the hypocrisy coming from Spiffeh. Re: complaining about only one vote being on Scorpious, talking about Scorpious lurking suspicion off himself, and then unvoting Aristo (despite a scum read) to vote Bearded because Bearded is present and Aristo wasn't. I'm not digging it.


I'm okay with Dwlee's Spiffeh vote here, too. Until he switches the moment that KT votes for Scorpious to vote the same as KT. Really? Really?

Do you really think KT or I are scum, scorp.

I have to admit. In my almost 10 game experience. I have never seen two people so openly act as one unit. I don't like the vibe I get from it..

You guys change votes like underwear too. I don't like that either.

QFT.


Dwlee, how can you possibly get any kind of AtE read off of additional periods at the end of a sentence?


Bellaphant's jump onto Scorpious is highly suspect in #830. I wasn't really getting much from her prior to this post. I just couldn't really nail down anything, but this whole walk around post about how she feels scorp is town yet she votes for him doesn't speak well of her. She cites his struggle with dwlee/kt and general awkwardness, but nothing concrete. Feels very sheepish and weak. Does not compute.

And it seems like absolutely NO ONE questions her on it. Seriously? Oh wait, Errantparabola does, but that's it.


BeardedCat's brush off of the KT/Dwlee team up in #865 is troubling. They completely dismiss KT/Dwlee as town, but doesn't seem to want to consider that one or the other might be scum.


KT's general WTF about MS being replaced is weird in #875. I don't really care for his response to Tony in #877 either.


Nice to see Scorpious stand up for himself, but I still don't care for the tag team from Dwlee who immediately needs to defend KT. Scorpious is spot on when he says that KT/Dwlee (the former moreso than the latter, in my eyes) are quasi-trolling. This read-through has been ROUGH.

How does Scorpious being frustrated with KT/Dwlee lead to Dwlee saying that Scorpious was accusing them of cheating? For serious? Oh look, here's more AtE from KT.

How did you all let this BS with KT and Dwlee slide this long? One, if not both, is definitely scum.


Ending at the Bottom of Page 36

[Starbuck]

Don't you dare act like Aristophanes was not the scummiest scumfuck in the world for the entire game until he claimed. Anyone who does is an automatic scum read

Still catching up, but that's a bit harsh, no?

He had some pretty good points of what I'm reading while I catch up. The only thing that really made him scummy, it seems, is his absence.

Way to overdramatize.

[Starbuck]

Well, it's what I'm seeing as I read. Maybe you shouldn't have acted so scummy if you are actually town?

[Starbuck]

I know it's WIFOMy greatness.

Since my voting privileges have been revoked (ironic for me as a woman, right?), I couldn't care. Trust me, you'll have a case on you coming.

[Starbuck]

Starting at the Top of Page 37...

I love CotW's #906 on Spiffeh. Way to break it down. Spiffeh's rebuttal in #909 is pretty good, too. Imma need to go back and further analyze if and when I look through ISOs.

Sorry but I need to comment on this. Can we keep things like this out of the thread? This is a game and there is no need for such personal information.

On the game side of things, comments like this will earn you town reads and I don't think that's fair to us as players to be influenced by such a post. I once had a player say his wife had left him, he had just lost his job and he was fighting for his kids and that's why he was lurking. He was scum and it was all untrue.

Please don't make posts like that.

I don't really care for this coming from BeardedCat. Scorpious was having a case built on him for not being here. One of the heads of a hydra was being attacked for not being here. If he has a legitimate reason, why would he not state it? This type of discrediting isn't cool in my book.

How many times is it going to be said that lurking isn't indicative of alignment? Plenty of town lurk and plenty of scum lurk. This type of response feels very off-putting to me. I don't like it at all.

As for the scorpious KT and DW triangle I've gone through the whole one player using another as a shield and am just convinced it's a all a pantomine act and all 3 of them are the scum team together as I cannot fanthom any reason to let so much drama spill out into a game. Especially one where nothing is in real time.

Well, this is blatantly wrong.

Dwlee's reaction to this is pretty odd. I think he just outted either himself, KT, or both as scum.


BC vs CotW is killing my soul, but it makes me feel more confident in BC.


I don't care for Tony's jump onto the Scorpious wagon. How can you not read any part of the game, other than your replacee's ISO, and confidently place a vote? I like CotW's Tony vote due to this.


In #1036, how is KT's AtE post in 892 "town frustration" but Scorpious wasn't?


Given Metal Sonic's actions, a Tony lynch wouldn't have been a bad move for Day 1, but I totally get the whole letting a replacement come in and get settled.


There goes Spiffeh in 1066 being ok with a Scorpious lynch and then, in 1068, being okay with an Aristo "flash lynch." So then, at the top of Page 44, Spiffeh and Dwlee both switch onto Aristo.


I do like Scorpious' vote of Bastion in 1091. He cites 493 as his reasoning and I really can't blame him for it.


Even though it's semi-OMGUSy, I like Tony's come back at Bellaphant in #1102.


So with both Scorpious and Aristo tied, and no one wanting to switch to Tony, everyone just swaps to Scorpious just to make sure we have a lynch

I feel like this is gonna be a mislynch

This doesn't seem all that town to me.


End of Day 1

[Starbuck]

Well, your reaction was "HA, no way we are all on the same team!" So to me, with the Scorpious flip, means that you or KT/pignash are definitely scum.

[Starbuck]

I've had a crazy few days with my fellowship and am going to be working through reading Day 2 and getting fully caught up this morning.

[Starbuck]

<post removed>

Why was this removed?

I see distancing from ms in KT's iso. Is that slot alive?

MS is now TonyMontana, right?

[Starbuck]

Oh and Starbuck, not asking for full flavour claim but is your flavour female?

Are we all claiming flavor already?

[Starbuck]

Oh, I just read the rest. That makes sense.

Yeah, my flavor is female.

[Starbuck]

Day 2 (Starting on Page 47...)

So no big surprise that Spiffeh votes Aristo right out of the gate.


I think discussion about the Gender Cop is good. I know we seemingly skirt around Night Kill talk on MS, but I feel that's usually more for benefit of the scum than the town. Having not played in Nexus' first game, I highly doubt that all females are scum again, and agree with whoever said that it is an insult to the mod to assume that he'd run the same game again.

So, is there any point gender claiming?

This gives me alarm bells.

Why are we speculating about roles instead of scum hunting?

Aristophanes is scum and needs to die.

Spiffeh's shut down here is questionable, too. It feels like he's trying to halt the conversation before it can reveal anything.


Dwlee's refusal to answer Aristo's questions about the reasoning for, what would become, his lynch is quite literally the first thing that makes me question Dwlee so far.


I don't really see how BeardedCat can have such totally different opinions on Aristo and Bella, in 1204 and 1205, when their amount of activity (by this point) has been about the same. Nothing for either has really stood out to me. Given the willingness to lynch Aristo (who we now know as town) over Bella, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of whiteknighting tactic here.


More Spiffeh going on about how Aristo should be bandwagoned to oblivion.

Yeah the entirety of Aristophanes' contribution today has been setup/role speculation and asking why he was being voted.

Please wagon.

Quite a misrep here. I thought the conversation was a good one to have until you cut it off.


I already addressed it when I spotted it, but Bastion's vote on me in #1251 is the epitome of horrid votes. Not to mention the throwing of shade about the way that I catch up in #1253.


I'm not a fan of Tony's subtle brush off of a Spiffeh lynch in 1266, especially with how many lynched town have popped up thanks to Spiffeh's insistence.


Why am I not surprised the Bastion "doesn't believe" Aristo's claim? Look at the discrediting of Woodrow Wilson and stating how "it doesn't fit the theme." I answered back about how it does and how much he helped women and helped to push forth progress despite being hammered by the conservatives of the time. I was already not feeling that great on Bastion, but this just pushed me over.

Sir Bastion I don't think that logic holds up.

And look! Spiffeh agrees!


There could have been an easy switch to a Bastion wagon based on this fishing as well as other things that I've noted in my own catch ups. Why did this not come to be?


Stopping at the Bottom of Page 52

[Starbuck]

I can't vote today, but if I would be wholeheartedly supporting a Spiffeh or Sir Bastion lynch.

[Starbuck]

Starting Top of Page 53....

I think it's a bad idea for town to try and ring up a third person with so much info on the table from today already.

Seeing as the wagons are falling apart, I'm gonna go with Bastion's logic on this one
Two VT claims will have to do for today.

VOTE: Ari

This is pretty shifty. It seems like a ton of people believe Ari, but the moment that Bastion is at L-1, folks are swooping in to save him from the lynch. That's HIGHLY questionable. I was that I had been caught up enough and had the reads, that I do now, to have placed the hammer here.


With Spiffeh following up right behind with his Ari vote. Surprise Surprise.


Gummy makes some great points about Spiffeh in #1316. Seriously, if you are town, go back and read this and tell me why Spiffeh shouldn't be strung up.

FYI BeardedCat will be living tonight.

What is this supposed to mean? And with Dwlee popping in behind with "Don't, just don't."

Starbuck it's very scummy if you don't hammer and allow a nl

Also, this is some crap. Like he wanted a reason to push a lynch on me today and look what he's doing? Pushing a lynch.


End of Day 2

[Starbuck]

Good lord, my tablet is terrible today.

[Starbuck]

I can't vote today, but if I would be wholeheartedly supporting a Spiffeh or Sir Bastion lynch.

EDBWOP: "...but if I could I would be wholeheartedly supporting a Spiffeh or Sir Bastion lynch."

[Starbuck]

I was that I had been caught up enough and had the reads, that I do now, to have placed the hammer here.

EDBWOP: "I wish that I had been caught up...."

[Starbuck]

Day 3...

Thanks to BeardedCat for actually giving my catch ups a read and answering my questions.


Dig the Spiffeh votes from BC and Tony.


I quoted Spiffeh's 1327 in my 1466 where he says "BeardedCat will be living tonight" and now I find this after the start of Day 3...

Yeah BC not being dead probs means they're scum js

I fully expect to be lynched today so just remember that when I flip.

Not to mention Plot town reading me yesterday and completely tossing that read to the wayside.

Since when do any protective roles crumb so clearly?


Am I the only one that has noticed that ever since KT was replaced that Dwlee has been buddying/trying to buddy hardcore with Spiffeh?

I was saying no way there was no way we were all scum (as I know my alignment) so dont misrep me.

I didn't misrep you in anyway. I didn't say "Dwlee said." I said "I think this." Overreaction much?

This logic isn't questionable but I just, you know, straight up wasn't here around deadline. RL and all that.

Completely understandable. Thank you for the clairification.

See Dwlee, this is how you clarify rather than jumping to "GUYS, STARBUCK IS MISREPPING ME."

Stopping at Mod Kill

[Starbuck]

Starting at Mod Kill...

Mod: Could you update the first post to reflect the modkill deaths?

So I didn't know all this time that we had lost two players. It seems like my vote is still lost, but I've PM'd the mod just to double check.

One good thing here is that it verifies the the mafia isn't completely female, but it also doesn't seem to show us any female flips as of yet.

Another good thing is that my scum read on KT was RIGHT ON POINT. Hellz yeah. So I think this means that Dwlee is as town as I think he is, despite the rubbing elbows with Spiffeh that I've seen over the last bit.


With those flips, I just want to do some lynch visuals, we can worry about analysis later...

Day 1
Scorpious (7-LYNCH) - Sir Bastion,

KTthecreeper

,

gummmybear, Call of the Wild

, Spiffeh, Errantparabola, Beardedcat

Day 2
Aristophanes (6-LYNCH) - Sir Bastion, TonyMontana, Spiffeh, Dwlee99,

gummmybear

,

pignash

I could see a TonyMontana lynch, too, based off of KT's interactions with Metal Sonic and the horribleness that was Metal Sonic all together in this game. Also the fact that Spiffeh can't come up with a reason other than "a TonyMontana vote is bad" as a counter to the wagon.

I will compromise lynch starbuck.

Wait wtf is this? Two posts up you said that there can't be two scum in me and Tony and that it's not me.

[Starbuck]

And with that, I'm caught up, finally. Sorry it took me so long.

I really wish I had a voteeeeeeeeeeeee.

[Starbuck]

So with confirmation, I am still voteless.

Boring.

[Starbuck]

I could support a Tony lynch based off of my feelings on Metal Sonic, alone. Weirdly enough, Tony hasn't really upped my red flags like Metal did. So it's odd.

[Starbuck]

MLG?

[Starbuck]

I think you should. That's kind of important.

[Starbuck]

It seems to be important to BeardedCat that you address it. So why not just address it and move on?

[Starbuck]

Maybe look through your own ISO and see if you said anything pertaining to why?

[Starbuck]

@Dwlee why the not lynch vote?

[Starbuck]

So Sir Bastion, how are you certain that two of the votes that are available are scum? That feels like a slip to me.

[Starbuck]

Because, technically, what you just did was confirm me as town (which I already know that I am).

[Starbuck]

Spiffeh needs more votes.

[Starbuck]

I wish I had a vote.

Vote stealer, you are the worst!

[Starbuck]

Lynch Analysis

Day 1
Scorpious (7-LYNCH) - Sir Bastion,

KTthecreeper

,

gummmybear, Call of the Wild, Spiffeh,

Errantparabola, Beardedcat


Day 2
Aristophanes (6-LYNCH) - Sir Bastion,

TonyMontana, Spiffeh

, Dwlee99,

gummmybear

,

pignash

Day 3
Spiffeh (4-LYNCHED) -

TonyMontana

, BeardedCat, Sir Bastion,

Spiffeh

Just some notes....

Sir Bastion is on every lynch
BeardedCat hammered Scorpious and is on Spiffeh
Errant is only on Scorpious
Dwlee is only on Aristo



On my side, I'm still having a hard time believing that Spiffeh was town. I could have sworn he would have flipped red. Gah.

[Starbuck]

So Dwlee, why that particular order?

[Starbuck]

First, I can do it whichever way I want. With the fact that a townie has been lynched every single day, there's scum on every single lynch besides your pal, KT/pignash.

[Starbuck]

First, I can do it whichever way I want. With the fact that a townie has been lynched every single day, there's scum on every single lynch besides your pal, KT/pignash.

Why are you assuming it can't be an all town mislynch? It's unlikely but certainly possible.

Because according to the first post, there's 5 of us left in the game.

BeardedCat (BlueBloodedToffee/Plotinus)
Errantparabola
Sir Bastion
Starbuck
Dwlee99


I know that I am town and my slot is not on any of the lynches. Therefore, there is at least two scum in the likes of you, Sir Bastion, Errant, and Bearded.

I still am holding onto that faith that since KT flipped scum that you aren't. So that leaves two scum in Errant, Bastion, and BeardedCat.

Errant came off as very town to me early on when I was reading, as did BeardedCat. That means that one of them is tricking me really well and Sir Bastion is probably scum as I've thought for most of the game.

[Starbuck]

Are you saying that Spiffeh was a mislynch and you and Errant are the final scum?

[Starbuck]

If I'm right about Sir Bastion, then yes, scum are on the lynch every day.

[Starbuck]

So we do things two different ways and basically come to the same conclusion, and you tell me that my way is wrong?

[Starbuck]

I was looking at KT during my catch up and he just felt so incredibly scummy from the get go. I was not surprised to see that slot flip red.

[Starbuck]

Writing out my response to you in Notepad right now. I'm going to quote the questions and answer, but please don't take it as ignoring the rest of what you have said. I'm just trying to pull the questions into an easier layout to answer.

[Starbuck]

my question to Starbuck is: what changed?

So you chopped the inital part of my thought when it came to not really being able to see the town motivation of Dwlee and KT's early posts. It's answered right there:

Dwlee vs KT is weird.

It feels like trying to add posts/be active for the sake of doing it and/or distancing.

Like I can't really see the Town motivation behind either of them.

It really came down to that either/or scenario on, at least, KT. With how much pal-ing around was going on between the two of them, plus their constant voting with each other, I can't believe that I would be the only person to think about the possibility of double scum between them. I did want to give each of them a chance to prove that they weren't. Dwlee, seemingly, passed that test and KT failed horribly.

As it went on, though, Dwlee was reacting in a manner that I would consider as town. In all actuality, I started reading Dwlee as much more genuine than KT. KT was nothing but over the top AtE (that whole under 18 thing could easily have been a way that KT slid under everyone's radar), WIFOM, forced case on Scorpious, overdefensiveness, deflection ("look at what so-in-so is doing" as a response) and just odd statements like "everyone is guilty until proven innocent." It didn't seem to be coming from a town perspective and I called it out from the get go of when I replaced in and it turns out, I was 100% spot on.

[Starbuck]

My question to you, Starbuck, is: going back to your catchup in retrospect, do you think that the BC defense of KT/Dwlee holds more significance? Because the way that Starbuck just drops it seems like she isn't willing to pursue that line of thought because it could haul two partners into the spotlight.

I think it might hold more significance. I think the issue is that a lot of people, including myself, were referring to KT/Dwlee as one entity and not two people with separate roles in the game. Looking back, that post from BC is like one huge discredit of everything that Scorpious contributed game wise, rather than a helpful one (as I took it to be during my catch up).


For example...

(read the following in the voice of BC)

Scorpious isn't townreading, he's annoyingreading, and I know because I tried to get my own buddy lynched because they were annoying.

Scorpious can't be town because he has 9 null reads in a 13 player game, and he isn't actively looking to change that, so that's scummy.

I debunked that whole thing about having more null reads than anything because I've done so myself. I don't expect to walk into a game, and on the 21st page on Day 1, have everyone neatly sorted into Scum and Town piles. I'm lucky if I have one or two scum or one or two town. Scorpious did what was asked of him, provided a town/scum list, and essentially had that ripped to shreds because it was Day 1 and he wasn't sure about most folks.

But look, he was right about at least one of KT/Dwlee but he was portrayed as annoyingreading them and not scumreading them. After looking this back over, with the knowledge that KT is (in fact) scum, this post doesn't really make BC look that great.

[Starbuck]

1383 BAM here we go. starbuck says that Dwlee and KT is TvS. Now! I need to know what changed. Again, Starbuck dances around the issue of BC being potential scum in 747 (isn't that an airplane?)

The 747 is, in fact, an airplane. I almost feel like you've been stalking me with that question, as I was an Aviation Electrician when I was in the Navy, I'm a huge aerophile, and I have my Bachelor's and Associate's in Aeronautics.

Anyways, thanks for reminding me of this particular post...

And here's BC's reaction in #747....

You know who else are good at being scum? Metal Sonic, Call of the Wild, and Bellaphant. Possibly some other people too but I don't have experience with them to say either way.

I want to note this because (1) deflection and (2) Call of the Wild is now a flipped townie. Would scumBC include a buddy on that list?

All of the above have flipped town now.

I'm not sure if it is important or just null, but I wanted to point it out.

[Starbuck]

1270 Thinks that BC and MS is TvT so, in a way, the defense of KT/Dwlee didn't matter that much to her

FYI, I'm not a fan of this misrepresentation.

I didn't state that BC and MS are TVT. I asked it as a question, which means that I was unsure. I didn't state it outright that it was a TvT interaction as you are saying here.

Could Metal Sonic and BeardedCat be TvT? Both are coming to the table with points that I easily could have made and I like it.

[Starbuck]

In addition to the above, why would you make the assumption that the KT/Dwlee defense didn't matter that much?

[Starbuck]

I'm waiting my turn.

[Starbuck]

I didn't because you came to the same conclusions as me with more work.

[Starbuck]

Anyways, I'm also a VT, as is always my luck.

[Starbuck]

Everyone was scumreading him for playstyle reasons and he didn't understand why. I wanted to show him why people were reacting to him the way that they were and give him a shovel to dig himself out of the hole he was in if he was town. We were on his wagon because it was deadline and he hadn't managed it; real life stuff was getting in his way.

So wait, there were other options for that Day 1 lynch but you stayed on Scorpious because he was busy in real life and couldn't respond quick enough? That's pretty shady.

[Starbuck]

I'm Anne Frank.

[Starbuck]

Reading Rory's ISO makes me convinced star is town, paranoid about errant. Star, which of Bearded and Bastion do you feel is most likely to hit scum?

I think there's a high probability in both. My early reading/catching up, and the fact that he's on every lynch makes me want to lean Bastion, but BC has almost been too helpful in some ways and I think I may have been giving them a pass for how much they were seeing what I was seeing.

So I think BC might be the better choice for today.

[Starbuck]

That makes sense. I agree with Dwlee acting towny. is there anything that convinced you that Dwlee/KT was TvS, not just Dwlee acting towny in a vacuum?

Star, I would really like you to answer this question.

I swear I did. Was that in that big wall of yours?

[Starbuck]

@Mod - Saturday December 5th?

[Starbuck]

@Errant - I feel like the answer to your question was in the post that was above it. Is there a certain point in this that you would like some more elaboration?

my question to Starbuck is: what changed?

So you chopped the inital part of my thought when it came to not really being able to see the town motivation of Dwlee and KT's early posts. It's answered right there:

Dwlee vs KT is weird.

It feels like trying to add posts/be active for the sake of doing it and/or distancing.

Like I can't really see the Town motivation behind either of them.

It really came down to that either/or scenario on, at least, KT. With how much pal-ing around was going on between the two of them, plus their constant voting with each other, I can't believe that I would be the only person to think about the possibility of double scum between them. I did want to give each of them a chance to prove that they weren't. Dwlee, seemingly, passed that test and KT failed horribly.

As it went on, though, Dwlee was reacting in a manner that I would consider as town. In all actuality, I started reading Dwlee as much more genuine than KT. KT was nothing but over the top AtE (that whole under 18 thing could easily have been a way that KT slid under everyone's radar), WIFOM, forced case on Scorpious, overdefensiveness, deflection ("look at what so-in-so is doing" as a response) and just odd statements like "everyone is guilty until proven innocent." It didn't seem to be coming from a town perspective and I called it out from the get go of when I replaced in and it turns out, I was 100% spot on.

[Starbuck]

Oh Dwlee. Why?

[Starbuck]

Errant had me tricked so fucking good. But man, I was out all day today and come back to game over. That's so disappointing. I worked so hard.


Good game, guys. Seriously. I wish I had been in since Day 1.

[Starbuck]

You were the one that was asking for patience when we started this day. We had some time to figure it out.

[Starbuck]

The mod seems to be using one of those countdown mechanisms in the vote counts. So as of this moment, like right now, there was a day. We still had time to figure it out and talk it out. Give Bastion some time to defend himself, etc.

My advice to you, Dwlee, don't rush it and follow your own words that you said at the beginning of the day.

[Starbuck]

Spiffeh hammering himself was weird.