Mini 1837: Family Mafia (GAME OVER)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: SpicyJalapeñoKnocks

you guys took the hydra slot first

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Ehhhh.

Hm. I like your vote, but what was this about?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

best rvs wagon i've seen, proud to be a part of it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Ehhhh.

Hm. I like your vote, but what was this about?

Hey giga why did you feel the need to question House on something so inconsequential?

I've played with him before and trust his judgement. I thought he saw something I didn't.

While he didn't, I liked his response at least.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I thought he saw something I didn't.

Like what?

Something that would make you think "Ehhh". I wasn't seeing anything particularly strange, so I didn't know what prompted House to post that.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

either one's cool, house

but thanks <3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

No, I didn't really have an anticipated answer like that which is why I asked. I figured it had something to do with the wagon, but I didn't think that he was deliberating whether or not to join it since he already vote hopped beforehand.

If anything, if he townread Spicy because of the wagon on him or something like that, I'd be kind of concerned because that's not really a great reason to townread someone in my opinion.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It's ok Kraska, I'll fight to my death to make sure they don't lynch you

unless i scumread you this game, that'd be a first

btw kraska you should totally vote with us!! why no RVS vote?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

elyse, i'm townreading both of those people though?? explain

also kraska who are you voting for? i can't find a vote from you

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It's more of a gutread (postie is like an actual informed read based on logic), I know as town House generally

does

care about his appearances, so that's not an issue to me. I got relaxed, townie vibes from his vote hopping. Plus, I think pushing the biggest wagon is usually a town indicator.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

postie is like an actual informed read based on logic

what do you mean

not gut

the logic is "see scumhunting/attempts at deliberating motive, call it town"

also

L-1

[gigabyteTroubadour]

btw i have a townlean on kraska

scum!kraska loves voteparking on vanity and counterwagons so there's that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

((noted that cakeboy won't hammer spicy))

cakeboy why the change of heart or rather why is camn an innocent farmer to you?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i was about to sheep you because i'm getting da vibez from nacho but

I'm not really seeing that? Like I'm not really seeing how he's trying to make her look scummy outright, just maybe a bit too defensive if that makes sense?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i was about to sheep you because i'm getting da vibez from nacho but

I'm not really seeing that? Like I'm not really seeing how he's trying to make her look scummy outright, just maybe a bit too defensive if that makes sense?

Aren't those basically the same thing?

defensiveness = scummy?

ehh, i guess but maybe nacho agrees w/ me that town has incentive to be defensive

[gigabyteTroubadour]

valid point

VOTE: Nacho

[gigabyteTroubadour]

house, why did you change your vote from a serious one (I'm assuming, correct me if i'm wrong) back to a RVS vote?

If your vote on Nacho wasn't serious, why the vote hop in the first place?

(i still approve of the dwlee hydra policy lynch ftr but i wanna gamesolve too )

[gigabyteTroubadour]

If your vote on Nacho wasn't serious, why the vote hop in the first place?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Wait, Cakeboy wasn't making a serious vote?

Cakeboy, is your vote serious?

also sorry i thought you'd respond in one post

[gigabyteTroubadour]

you townread kraska already?

have you played w/ her before or what

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Postie
Ate the toastie


What else rhymes with postie

coastie
mostie
roastie

those aren't words but yeah

kraska what are your thoughts on cakeboy?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I can see the incentive behind his nacho vote and he's sticking out his neck a little...looks town

good, then i can feel comfortable calling this ^ my happy town family

i had slight pause about cakey because i do agree that the logic around his read on you is ??? but tbh it could be worse

(in lieu of readlists i will make edits to this picture for all of my townreads. spyrex might be the family dog but i'm still thinking about that one)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm not so sure on Cakez, but the rest looks pretty chill.

Think I'd swap Cakey out with camn, tbh.

i see camn more as the vodka aunt tbh, it'd be weird to put her as the green bear anyway

What's making you doubt Cakey? I think the first serious push usually comes from town, and the push didn't look that contrived anyway (i.e. coming from scum trying to look townie by ending RVS or something). hence why i'm sheeping it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Not a fan of his attack on defensiveness.

There are town AND scum reasons for being defensive, and wtf is TOO defensive? Should town just roll over and be lynched to avoid looking too defensive? How does that work?

I just find his push to be Meh, and he's campaigning for town leader with his multiple votes, where he hopped from one to the next when he didn't get a bunch of followers.

Looked tryhard.

Just not a fan of his play.

^assuming this is @me and about cakey

Wasn't he criticizing Nacho for making an attack on defensiveness though? I'm sensing some misinterpretation here. Though I agree it's tryhard but I think it's town tryhard

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Wait I'm confused
Who was cake refering to when he was talking about defencivness? I thought he said nacho's push on me was making me look defencive/scummy?

i think you have it right which is why i'm not sure house is on the right page about his criticism of cakey

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh yeah house is right about cakez... i still think the push is townie though, the point is Cakez thought nacho was misrepping kraska, which is scummy.

but i should probably reread this when my head is clearer lol so i stop saying stupid shit

gonna move my vote back to dwlee once i look at a votecount

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Spicy

L-1

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@postie, i doubt anyone's going to quickhammer and i don't really want to condone cakez's push until i can reassess and decide it's valid

plus i don't think a quickhammer is that much of a loss so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Spicy

L-1

Oh you saw.

i went back, yeah

i don't really see the need to be worried about the wagon going this far

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh right i thought i was already voting lol
VOTE: jalapeno

this isn't the first time spicy was at l-1 btw

interesting that people reacted to that this time though

[gigabyteTroubadour]

fine, postie

That is one awful townbloc.

VOTE: Dramonic

reads?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i wish utl made me a doublevoter

[gigabyteTroubadour]

some

thanks me too



can you be specific or what

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i don't get how being friends with kraska impacts the quality of my read on her if that's what you're getting at...? like she's the only one in that group who's both new and a friend of mine? if that's not it then wtf is your point

anyway based on ACTUAL SCIENCE i have an 80% chance of reading kraska correctly (margin of error (MoE) of ~45%)... i'm not townreading her because we're friends lol, i can just read her correctly most of the time (a better way of saying that would be, based on the games i've played with her and spectated, i've only read her wrong once so)

also elyse is town w/ that vote

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Did you intentionally state your ability to read her amounts to (roughly) the same averages as a toss of a coin? (Slightly lower, actually)

lol yes that was the joke

but i do think that after hydra-experience and several games with her that my read on kraska is most likely the one to be correct.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

neither friendly nor pleasant nor delusional

that fits house to a t!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tbh i think the nacho push is probably coming from town but we should talk about the dramonic push

kraska do you think anyone is scum or are you still pro-spicy policy lynch

[gigabyteTroubadour]

half-joking there
they're scummy enough but i don't know if that's how kraska feels

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Do you have anything to add to the dramonic push? I've been uninterested because I don't see how his play has been different from normal dramonic play thus far.

kind of not... i'm kind of strategically sheeping this point in the game state (i.e. following townreads in their pushes that i don't feel are misguided) but i

do

have kind of an almost-actual-for real scumread of my own on dram now so

245 didn't feel like a townpost. like where is the town motivation in taking potshots at someone's townreads if you're not scumreading any of those people? if he disagreed about one of my reads that's one thing, but that's not at all what he said. also him calling it a townbloc was kind of ???, while i was sheeping cakey at the time i didn't really have any intention to get those 4 people to work together because i still feel like i'm sorting everyone at not super happy with all of my reads. i just don't really get how someone reacts to me saying "I have 4 townreads!" the way he did, it was an overreaction to nothing.

also his explanation for it later made no sense and i felt like he didn't even read any of my posts so uh... there's that. i'm kind of shit at explaining gutreads so i don't even know if this is coherent but this is the best way i can put it for now.

also elyse's overblown push feels more like a personality-sort-of-thing to me so i didn't really read it one way or the other personally, i liked the vote at the time because your earlier posts didn't jive well with me for reasons i think i've explained?

i'll admit that i'm not giving the game 100% atm because my brain is kind of mush from irl stuff and it's still early game, my midgame is generally a bit better so i'm not going to be this useless later

one more thing: what's dramonic usually like then? the only people i've played with here are obviously Kraska and House, and also Elyse so i have a general idea of how they play but if this sort of posting is normal for dramonic i'm lost

(this was a kind of long phone post so if you need me to rephrase something more coherently i can do that.... later... much later )

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Do you really think he isn't scumreading ANY of your townreads?

294 you mean? Seems ambiguous as to how he reads you honestly, he could just dislike you as a person.

but yeah i do agree that my read on him is kind of wobbly and dumb, a lot of my early scumreads are

pedit: i mean if you say so but but normal dram behavior is still normal dram behavior for scum dram...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

So you admit your read is wobbly, but say normal (for dram) behavior that gave you that read is still worth reading him as scum over?

yes...? i'm not townreading him, i find his few posts scummier than spicy's, nor do i see a better place for a vote

like even if it's a personality tell it's still a scummy personality tell to me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i don't find your playstyle scummy though

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i've followed a lot of your games actually, both as town and scum

i still townread you in them

like in that U-Pick where you got lolhammered you were super obviously town...

although i do agree on your decision to restrain yourself when you IC and I agreed at that time too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i still townread you in them

Have you considered that you should probably not call someone town if you're aware you can't read them worth shit?

lol that does sound like i townread him most of the time but that wasn't the implication... kind of

i'll scumread him when i think he's scum... i have a good lylo record so far

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i really didn't like cakey's 453 tbh. I'm not really getting why he thinks spicy is specifically flipping town here? I can get null or scumreading the slot, but why is it town...?

I at least do agree with the sentiment of not lynching it just yet, as much as i want to quickhammer spicy for fun.

btw is elyse generally a lurker...? because i'm getting the vibe she's just been busy recently, doesn't seem fair to call her a top-tier lurker just because of this game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yeah idg the flak house is getting here

i have literally no clue what hippy is like as a player so some action would be nice

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the l-1 wagon got reactions from everyone who was going to react... it did what it could

spicy is clearly v/la so there's no point in waiting for him

if he wants to keep coasting we can throw votes back there... sounds fine to me.

were you ever on the spicy wagon btw?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Spy

if you give me dram

I will give you jalapeno

you unvoted dram and voted spicy tho so i'm kind of confused

like look at the most recent votecount

[gigabyteTroubadour]

No I was never on the spicy wagon how dare you accuse me of such things.

???

am i stupid or (i mean i'm stupid regardless but that's besides the point )

[gigabyteTroubadour]

LOL fuck i already forgot i asked that

i have rly short term memory which may prove to be an issue at times.. lmao

[gigabyteTroubadour]

kinda busy irl but some thoughts from skimming (might announce a v/la soon btdubs):

actually liking nacho a bit better to be honest. i have to look into his dramonic meta but i'm still not super crazy about him as town.

i think lynching spicy for reasons other than it's funny is a terrible idea now, dwlee should really just put up a v/la so we can hunt elsewhere for now. kind of debating postie's reasoning for townreading the slot, i think the lack of reaction/shitposting is something dwleehydra would do regardless of his alignment. plus going on the defensive immediately would raise a few eyebrows, so i'm not townreading the reaction completely. not saying to write off the slot completely btw

i really think i need to reevaluate everything i know about this game pretty soon

I think that covers everything?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

postie what do you think about the anti-dramonic wagon sentiment? i.e. the people saying that dram is just being dram? i'm assuming you have some experience reading him

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the ppl in this game make my head hurt

why is camn vote worthy... at all...

why does cakey think he has the scumteam figured out? that's concerning

I feel slow

[gigabyteTroubadour]

giga where are u i wanna talk

pooped from real life
i just came home and i pulled an all-nighter yesterday so i really don't have the energy for this yet
i'm 100% on an upswing so we can all hope for a less shitposty giga soon bc i'll be willing to put more effort in here

haven't sorted nacho vs. elyse yet because wall wars but that's my #1 thing to look at tomorrow

[gigabyteTroubadour]

This group:
House, zito, nacho, kraska, trobadour

^good voting bloc and mostly where i'm at. what about postie?

i'd vote for elyse if that were the wagon atm but solely out of wagon composition which is kind of bad reasoning mid-late D1 so i'll pass on that.

should add that I kind of get and somewhat agree with a lot of House's "weird" thinking that others don't seem to get... i.e., voting for Hiplop, his reasoning on not wanting a Elyse lynch, etc.? Not sheeping him because I'm my own person and whatnot, but just so house doesn't feel alone, I'm in the corner snapping whenever he posts.

This is a not so great premise based on what stage of the game it is currently. I can do whatever the hell I want at this point in the time because everyone who has played more than five games of mafia knows that currently the name of the game is throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks

i agree with this point and why I dropped my scumread on you but isn't this exactly what Elyse is doing to you?

And Nacho, what's with the vote on Dramonic?

I'm still digesting the wall wars but I think Nacho has proved himself well enough for now. I'd like some more dialogue before that convinces me to say that that makes Elyse scum, however.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Spicy

L-1

^ i thought this was a townpost tbqh

why do you think zito is scummy, house?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

is it bad that i'm townreading ranmaru already

i've fallen into the "see catch-up I agree with, call it town" trap once before (Kraska ) and i don't intend to do so a second time

[gigabyteTroubadour]

on #22, i actually thought postie's set of questions were pretty good. I got the feeling she thought my question was surface-level pushing and I think she asked the right questions to make it clear it wasn't. I don't think scum players would even think to question a town player's motive in that way specifically.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

tbh i don't really have any? i get it's page 29 but

I am really not liking Dramonic's posting and I think people are letting him fly under the radar because he's playing the same way he always is but I honestly feel I can do better?

I think I'm buying the Elyse push and move onto there. There was a question I wanted answered that I think wasn't yet, so I'll wait for that.

My issue, I think, is that I have way too many townreads and just need to lower my standards.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

My issue, I think, is that I have way too many townreads and just need to lower my standards.

Wouldn't lowering your standards give you

more

townreads?

lower my standards for finding townreads

i actively look for reasons to townread people too

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'll explain my postie read and just ask if you need specifics for the others because i'll end up writing about every slot in the game, probably

i think the early, non-surface level questioning is definitely a town indicator. she also feels like the lone, sane voice in this town... pushing against the spicy lynch when a few slots of posted nothing substantive at all. i think her voting pattern is pretty natural so I'm not seeing what you're not, but I would liked some more pressure on Dramonic on her part since she started the wagon, I suppose. Still happy to townread.

I'm also townreading {House, Papa Zito, Cakeboy} at about the same tier as Postie. {Kraska, Spy, Camn, Nacho} is probably the tier right under that.

in theory that'd imply a elyse/spicy/dramonic team but unlike cakeboy i can't call the scumteam D1 nor will i ever get close so

I'm pretty sure I'm townreading scum right now but I haven't had the chance to sit down and really

think

. Your differing read on Postie is going to make me want to go there first, I guess.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

With Camn, she put you on the 'culling' list for a legitimate question.

I don't find this part scummy, especially because I think I started on the shortlist.

The players she picked were obviously newbies/players she wasn't familiar with and I expected as much when she showed her full list.

Do you think Postie/Camn are a scumteam? Because the way your post is phrased it sounds like their interactions are SvT.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Kraska, what do you think of the cactus?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga, are you working on that re-read? I'd like to see your conclusions.

i'm kind of overgamed but i'll keep you posted when i get to it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

spicy wagon is good

might be v/la'ing though

VOTE: Spicy

[gigabyteTroubadour]

against my better judgement i'm not going to vla or replace out, i promised kraska i'd do this

it's 2 am so i'm not going to make a serious post but @ranmaru, none of my thoughts have changed too much from rereading besides losing a little faith in my camn townread, mostly because I think I can start abandoning my more gutty reads and i don't see much reason to townread her

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i thought a lolhammer would be funny

but i don't really feel any way about this. my actual opinions on the matter will probably come post-flip(s?? doubting the dayvig is real) though because my reads could completely and entirely change from that alone :/

I'm still townreading the wagon pre-flips but I would have appreciated a claim at least...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

against my better judgement i'm not going to vla or replace out, i promised kraska i'd do this

*hugs* rl gets priority don't push yourself to do this if you're too busy

it's not being busy or anything, dw, i just kinda put a lot on my plate here and i needed to sort my priorities <3

i'm in 4 ongoings at the moment but 2 of them are going to be pretty short so i'm not really worried about them, this will be the game i put the most attention to (even if i'm not taking it as seriously as i normally take games )

also ran i thought kraska's progression onto Elyse made sense? am i missing context because i think 349 made the jump make sense.

why were you initially townreading kraska?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh nvm she was in null

sorry ran <3

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Please revote Spicy for great justice.

i'd rather wait for utl first to confirm the dayvig

if we can get a claim in that would be nice :/

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm also townreading {House, Papa Zito, Cakeboy} at about the same tier as Postie. {Kraska, Spy, Camn, Nacho} is probably the tier right under that.

in theory that'd imply a elyse/spicy/dramonic team but unlike cakeboy i can't call the scumteam D1 nor will i ever get close so

^ pretty much still this buuut

• Camn moves to the null tier regardless of flip
  
  I'm kind of waffling on Elyse? I still think Nacho is town but I have to give their interactions a second chance
  
  You're town
  
  Spyrex is ??? wrt to the flip. He'll be obvtown after a scumflip I think, but I also think lolhammering anyone as scum is pretty ballsy and I can totally imagine him doing it as scum so this is probably something I'll revisit

again i really don't have scumreads this game for some reason and i feel like i'm doing this wrong

(s?? doubting the dayvig is real)

whoa whoa whoa whoa
whoa


whoa




whoa



I do NOT fuck around with the sacred duty of the vigilante ok. You have impugned my honor.

sorry

it's just... uncanny... to see such a thing... it's like seeing an irl unicorn in real life.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Did you do that re-read yet?

only thing i got from it is that i've been too generous with my camn read

sorry

might try again soon as my game/workload lessens

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Gigantic, explain your reads on Kraska, Elise, and Dram. Thank you. (I am aware you are waffling on Elise but I want the reasoning)

Kraska is probably the player I'm most familiar with in this playerlist and I

think

I'm pretty good at reading her (and she's tough for most to read imo so). I think her pushing Elyse and being in the RVS spicy-wagon were town-indicators for me because usually (usually) as scum she tends to avoid the bigger conflicts in the gamestate unless it's necessary for her to survive. Her reads feel and developed like typical Kraska reads so I don't really see the issue there. I do have some doubts about her though so she's not a top-townread, if she's scum I have a few tells of mine that I think would catch her anyway so I'm not that paranoid of her.

I'm currently in a (probably problematic, probably) mindset that one of {Elyse, Nacho} is scum. Initially, I disliked Nacho's questioning of Kraska as several others did, and I liked Elyse's push on it. But during their wall wars, I think Nacho acquitted himself well. Plus, Elyse's doubling down on Nacho had that "i'm going to look for every post Nacho made and make it look bad!" vibe to it.

At the same time

, Elyse did make a few good points and was the one that made me question my Camn read, so if Camn flips scum then I think Elyse is town. I can be a really huge fucking waffle as town sometimes, especially if I'm in a game where I just don't really have a solid scumread on everyone

Dram is kind of an oddity, I guess. I didn't like his posts wrt my early townreads and I thought they were scummy, but I think most people are right in that I was probably overreacting to it. He hasn't really done anything to make me want to townread him though. If he

does

flip red though I'm going to take a really good look at the people saying "oh dram is just being dram so he's town".

i kind of just reread this post and cringed, i s2g i'm better than this holy hell but anyway

ranmaru's wanting me to take actual stances is a really townie thing btw so congrats on beating postie as the top-tier townread

it's like seeing an irl unicorn in real life.

Brought to you by the Department of Redundancy department of redundancy.

house i thought you knew phrases like "for your fyi information" and "bs-ass bullshit" are part of my day-to-day vocabulary...

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Kraska

adsfds (L-2 by the way)

ok there goes all of my efforts to meta elyse, i can't see kraska bussing at all so she's most likely town.

Cakez, why target Kraska over Nacho?

also i don't mind being lynched/vigged at all i really have not been pulling my weight here lol

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hey wait

do we actually have a dayvig? Because if so I don't see why we can't use it now...? Unless there were ~shenanigans~ and Papa Zito actually did shoot Camn but the kill didn't go through for some reason?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ok i seriously don't get it

why am i like lock-kraska buddy

like this really did not look like what i have seen of kraska's scumgame to me and I'm going to stand by that. i don't mind dying because of all of this but I'd at least like to know why?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

You had me sold on kraska town.

She's turns up guilty and you start acting guilty.

i mean i'm guilty of having a shitread but the only post i wrote before the three people i townread the most agreed that i was scum was in 1001 and i'm not really getting a guilty conscious vibe from that

Cakez, why target Kraska over Nacho?

He gets a guilty and you question why he didn't target someone else???

I mean, I know you're upset your teammate got busted but try not to obvscum...

Picking kraska as a target doesn't make sense to me? Like I would expect him to pick Nacho because he was a controversial read across the entire town.

Gigantic, explain your reads on Kraska, Elise, and Dram. Thank you. (I am aware you are waffling on Elise but I want the reasoning)

Kraska is probably the player I'm most familiar with in this playerlist and I

think

I'm pretty good at reading her (and she's tough for most to read imo so). I think her pushing Elyse and being in the RVS spicy-wagon were town-indicators for me because usually (usually) as scum she tends to avoid the bigger conflicts in the gamestate unless it's necessary for her to survive. Her reads feel and developed like typical Kraska reads so I don't really see the issue there. I do have some doubts about her though so she's not a top-townread, if she's scum I have a few tells of mine that I think would catch her anyway so I'm not that paranoid of her.

Because of stuff like this!

But that's why I townread her? Like look at Kid's TV Show mafia in the Theme Park, this didn't look like her scumgame to me.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh actually zito has a point

why would town!camn would need to fakeclaim PGO if she's already bulletproof? Like, yes, obviously it wasn't a serious claim but the need to "wifom" scum to avoid being killed N1 is gone if she's town because she can't die N1...

But that's why I townread her? Like look at Kid's TV Show mafia in the Theme Park, this didn't look like her scumgame to me.

I too have past experience with scum!kraska and am slightly impressed with the transformation from that to this.

her scumgame before that one was a lot better, trust me. i think she was trying to just have fun/not really try that game.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Kraskaalso i don't mind being lynched/vigged at all i really have not been pulling my weight here lol

Town don't say this.

i do lol

i really don't mind but i at least want to know the thought process behind my mislynch. helps to know who's opportunistically pushing me because of a shitty read vs. someone who thinks i had buddy interactions with kraska. vigging me just keeps the lynchbait away from scum and shortens the suspect pool.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga: I want a new reads list with Kraska guilty in mind.

Sounds good.

With just a list:

Strong town: Ranmaru, Postie

Town: House, Elyse, Nacho (While I can see the Nacho/Kraska interactions being distancing, I think Kraska pushing Elyse points to it being TvT. i have to take a look at how kraska works with her scumbuddies a lot more but she tends to avoid attention so i can't see her working DIRECTLY with her partner so obviously in pushing Elyse)

which leaves Camn and Dram. Papa Zito and Cakeboy are not in the list because of their claims. I literally cannot see a scum dayvig as a thing (and his posting is town), and Cakeboy would be faking a guilty on his partner.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I think the only time Kraska has ever bussed as scum was in the game Postie saw, where her partner was obvious scum. Elyse wasn't obvious scum at all.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i also expected kraska to be a lot more uncomfortable rolling scum against me, but her posting didn't seem like she was trying to avoid manipulating me at all? so idk.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

kraska being scum kind of explains how i've had a hard time finding scumreads though

i guess it should have clicked earlier

[gigabyteTroubadour]

She wouldn't need to if you were both the same alignment. Also she town-read you the whole game. Have either of you tried to determine each other's alignment?

kraska no (she just pointed out that i wasn't nervous, which is true because i didn't want to sign up at first because i was nervous i would play my first scumgame against a lot of good players. if she were town and i were scum i think she would have been able to tell)

but i mean I did? i mean i felt like i tried. I thought pushing her to vote spicy would be good enough of a tell to see what alignment she is tbqh. it's not much though so i guess your point is fair.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

anyway based on ACTUAL SCIENCE i have an 80% chance of reading kraska correctly (margin of error (MoE) of ~45%)... i'm not townreading her because we're friends lol, i can just read her correctly most of the time (a better way of saying that would be, based on the games i've played with her and spectated, i've only read her wrong once so)

^this is the thing i'm most frustrated about btw

that's TWO times now

(it's now a 71% chance with a MOE of ~38% which is still terrible lol)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Postie, do you agree with me that Kraska flipping scum means that Elyse is most likely town and Nacho probably is too? Asking since you were scumreading Elyse yesterday (or at least I assume so because that's where your vote was left off).

Because if they're both town, and if you and Ran are town, then PoE should be really, really easy. and I'm pretty sure camn is scum too.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Postie, do you agree with me that Kraska flipping scum means that Elyse is most likely town and Nacho probably is too? Asking since you were scumreading Elyse yesterday (or at least I assume so because that's where your vote was left off).

Because she would have been bussing Elyse and she doesn't have a history of bussing? Idk man doesn't seem like the best reason to "clear" someone over.

i don't think her push looked like bussing either though

but you're probably right :shrug:

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Picking kraska as a target

doesn't make sense to me

? Like I would expect him to pick Nacho because he was a controversial read across the entire town.

Expand on this. How is this relevant to finding scum? Do you believe the result or not?

The second sentence pretty much expands on the underlined as much as I can. I do believe the result.

It's relevant because I wanted to understand his thought process. Even if he's pretty obviously town now, picking Kraska as an investigation target just feels left field from his posting and he must have had a reason to suspect Kraska or want to look into her.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Picking kraska as a target

doesn't make sense to me

? Like I would expect him to pick Nacho because he was a controversial read across the entire town.

Expand on this. How is this relevant to finding scum? Do you believe the result or not?

The second sentence pretty much expands on the underlined as much as I can. I do believe the result.

It's relevant because I wanted to understand his thought process. Even if he's pretty obviously town now, picking Kraska as an investigation target just feels left field from his posting and he must have had a reason to suspect Kraska or want to look into her.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm not going to explain why I picked kraska today, but it will make sense later
Now stop fishing pls

people love throwing the word "fishing" around

wouldn't fishing be more like "what is the nature of your guilty?" which i'm not interested in

but if you don't want to explain why you picked kraska then that's fine. my lips are now sealed on that.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'm neither friendly nor pleasant.

I'm generally abrasive and brash....

Thus far you've been pretty salty to me and idk what I've done to deserve it.

Internal dissonance noted.

Spoiler: Note to later camn-self

Something is off about this. kraska/House/Dramonic. Something is weird here. Like the inverse of a love triangle. come back to it once we have some flips.

camn i think it's time to revisit this and explain what you were thinking because we *might* be on the same track here. maybe.

i am still townreading everyone alive besides {camn, House, Dramonic, maaaybe nacho but that would mean the Elyse push was entirely scum-motivated which i think is unlikely (and something I think kraska would avoid but fuck my opinion of kraska lol)} due to general townieness or interactions with Kraska D1 (D2 interactions are worthless imo), so even if you guys powerlynch me today we're probably fine. Us being in evens might shake that up though.

hopefully cakeboy has a result though because i really don't want to defend myself

[gigabyteTroubadour]

That funny.
That plus Cakez is pretty much my townbloc.
I think day 2 interactions are totally relevant.
You think scum-kraska offers me up as an alt-lynch...and dram as a nk target...and we are scummy for it? Nfway.

I am pro a gigabyte lynch at this point.
I think clarity in the nacho/Elyse dichotomy will come eventually. They don't both make endgame, right?

In Kraska's position, I would totally be throwing shade at my partners and threatening to kill them. Double busses work. I'm not bothering to look into her D2 interactions because Kraska was confirmed scum, and when you're confirmed scum, the proper play is to throw bullshit at the wall and confuse town players because it's extremely unlikely you'll be able to deflect the lynchmob away from you. Everything Kraska said yesterday was to deliberately muddy our sense of the gamestate, so the best way to make clarity of it, in my opinion, is to just ignore it. Maybe dram is town because Kraska can't shoot scum!dram, I don't fucking know, but there is nothing that clears you.

If you're pro-my lynch btw, both Elyse and Nacho make it to endgame. Tomorrow's MYLO because I flip town. The entire case against me is that I had a shit game and that I townread Kraska. That's complete and utter bullshit, it's a policy lynch and I really wish people picked up on this. If I were scum here, I think that for my very first scumgame where I'm teamed with the one person who invited me into a game with players I otherwise would not play with, I think my involvement would be

much, much

higher. Seriously, scum is more fun to play (at least from my face-to-face experience), I really do not have the energy irl to gamesolve but I could totally bullshit it if I wanted to.

The nightkill also makes very little sense with scum!me in mind. Papa Zito was like one of the only people yesterday who wasn't ready to gun for my lynch, so unless the plan is specifically to bus (which is likely the case if Cakez has a guilty on me, which *won't happen because i'm fucking town*), then you'll notice that scum won't push a counterwagon against me because I'm literally the lowest hanging fruit there is right now. A scumteam with me is probably killing Ranmaru, I can't think of anyone else that makes sense to kill.

Also why the fuck is ranmaru scum?? with me? that makes zero sense. i don't think there's even a third person that makes sense in a Giga/Kraska team, which makes sense because, you know, i'm town.

Why does Spy dying clear you? I don't understand that either.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Hey, Giga - I don't think that you're scum. Come lynch Elyse with me.

Vote: Elyse

I don't think Kraska/Elyse makes much sense. Why do you think she was bussing?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

giga's meta of "kraska doesn't like attention when scum" is applied too naively (as demonstrated by the kraska scum flip) so I'm not just going to blind trust it.

i mean that's not exactly what i was saying but i'm... not really going to defend myself here because i was wrong.

I don't relly understand why you ended up voting Spicy when you did; you stated earlier that it was for policy lynch reasons, but I thought the plan was to game solve in the meantime?

I was townreading the wagon and kind of scumreading the slot. i did call it a policy lynch but i admitted to half-joking in that regard... it was more the users we lynched and the vibe of their posts that gave it the vibe of a not-so-serious lynch. i still think it was a perfectly fine lynch btw

When kraska voted Elyse, I had already been pushing Elyse for about 10 pages and no one was really buying it. This means that there's decent enough evidence of kraska not really thinking the wagon would go through. As far as the actual content of kraska's push, kraska mostly pushed elyse by going "hey do you want to vote elyse with me?" and by rehashing points that I had already pointed out, which means that unless she thought that her asking people to join the wagon was magically going to drive it to a lynch, she probably didn't think that lynch was going through.

It was a strong place to provide distance; there was a possibility that eventually I would wear down Elyse or the rest of the town enough to where I would be able to push a lynch through and thus kraska would look better in retrospect (despite not putting her team in any significant danger at the time). Whenever I am discounting a read with "this isn't a bus", I ask myself if their push on another player would damage the scumteam as a whole. If it wouldn't, you can't really give bus cred for it.

OK, this I can follow... meaning I need to actually do my homework and reread this game (i thought the kraska guilty meant i can just shrug this off as a TvT )

your point fits into what interpretation I had of kraska's game by the way... elyse

was

the "counterwagon that never goes through" day 1, it's just that it wasn't how i expected scum!kraska to work with it. usually i've seen her leading the push in the most passive way possible, so that she usually ends up as the sole voter. point is though i have to look into this more and my read of kraska was trash.

But if you feel this why, why throw away the push and change your vote to Dramonic?

btw I want to see Ranmaru respond to your points against Me/Kraska as a scumteam because if he agrees, then maybe this town can actually unify and improve our group dynamic. I feel extremely awkward and paranoid I'm being buddied/pushed as low hanging fruit that it's kind of hard for me to focus on what really matters. probably because my play is usually better, i have never really felt like

the lynch of the day

before and it's not really... not a position I can work in well.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

cakez i'm rereading the thread atm but wasn't the basis of your nacho scumread that he was misrepping kraska? why, as scum, does nacho misrep his own partner?

like i think now that nacho makes less sense as a kraska partner than elyse but i just started my reread

i feel a dram lynch more than a elyse lynch but Elyse/Nacho probably shouldn't make it to mylo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i feel a dram lynch more than a elyse lynch but Elyse/Nacho probably shouldn't make it to mylo

We're not reaching LyLo. If you're feeling a dram lynch, come vote dram.

VOTE: Dramonic

still reading btw

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Dramonic

still reading btw

How's the read going?

awful actually. like every time i reread i don't see anything new and my brain just turns to mush. i've never had this much of a hard time getting into a mafia game.

basically though i still cannot see Elyse or Nacho as scum (at least from their earlier play, i'm writing this as I catch up), but I really can't articulate why. Nacho raises a good point that Kraska absolutely could have been bussing and I don't really have anything valid to defend my belief. I still find Dramonic's "I can smell the LYLO setup" wrt to my early townreads really weird considering the kraska flip, but that's hardly a case worthy of pushing someone on the day before MYLO. At this point, I've contributed as much as dramonic and have no fucking space to talk.

i was half-expecting Papa Zito to die alone last night and just let everyone PL me like originally planned but now that we lost a mislynch I have to actually think... i'm pretty sure this town loses after a me-mislynch so i can't let that happen.

@Giga: I need your reads. I want your read on Camn.

her role is fucking weird... bulletproof to me seems like a negative to a town with lovers (keeps us in evens), but idfk set-up spec

being bulletproof is coloring my perception of that slot entirely. i can't read it for shit.

cakez i'm rereading the thread atm but wasn't the basis of your nacho scumread that he was misrepping kraska? why, as scum, does nacho misrep his own partner?

like i think now that nacho makes less sense as a kraska partner than elyse but i just started my reread

i feel a dram lynch more than a elyse lynch but Elyse/Nacho probably shouldn't make it to mylo

This just pings me. giga doesn't even address my vote on him. It's like he's in this mindset that votes on him are justified and don't deserve suspicion and that's a scum mindset.

first of all i am not a he (and neither is kraska)

second... have you been reading like any of my posts... i don't think your vote warrants discussion because i think i'm being lynched more for being shitty this specific game, not because people actually think i'm scum. what's the case against me? I townread kraska and I haven't been contributing much. that's a garbage case that doesn't need a legitimate response.

actually scratch what i said about me townreading elyse, this is such a garbage post.

Hm. Looks a bit like she needs convincing to vote, but at a level that feels kinda scummy. Like any level of pushing will make her vote. IDK, I just ISOed her for that. She also seemed a bit fast to make a townbloc. She's a scumlean.

it's not a fucking townbloc
those were town

reads

... why the fuck are townreads scummy

Gamma + Gigantic scum

this doesn't make sense at all

Because his interactions with kraska weren't svs

I missed this.

Why? Sorry I know I'm asking a lot of whys but to me it seemed like giga expected to be able to work with kraska and using his experience with her as a tool and is stuck now that she's gone. I don't think he expected her to be gone so quickly.

if the plan was to keep kraska alive for endgame (i.e., have me use bs meta to keep her alive), i don't think she'd be the one sending out the kill and tracked/watched by Cakez because scumteams do this thing called "planning". if anything i would be the one sending out the kills for my scumteam all game because there isn't that much of a loss if i'm guiltied, kraska at least has scumperience and doesn't get demoralized by games as easily as I do (although i don't think i'd be demoralized at this point as scum, being bussed here would be pretty useful).

also if you're town you should realize that we literally LOSE on my mislynch... if you're town. You and Nacho are both going to make it to XYLO for sure (or town!Nacho will be killed to make you look bad if that works for the scumteam) and Nacho will *probably* be able to get most of the town to vote for you. i don't care if you think this is fearmongering, i just don't see a win in sight for us.

like can people actually think before they spew bullshit around

---

i've like given up this game pretty quickly into D2 due to being overgamed and just not feeling it but i feel like replacing out is disrespectful so i'm not going to do that.

i think i want to lynch in {Gamma, Elyse} but they don't make sense together as a team to me. I'm liking Dram in {Dram <> Camn} interactions better so i don't know if i want to off that slot any more. camn is just completely unreadable.

also @nacho, you also agreed with me that House <> Elyse interactions were weird and unlikely to come from a scumteam... so from PoE and in your PoV, the scumteam has to be {Elyse, Dram}, right? i don't know how much sense it makes.

VOTE: Gamma

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I still find Dramonic's "I can smell the LYLO setup" wrt to my early townreads really weird considering the kraska flip

, but that's hardly a case worthy of pushing someone on the day before MYLO. At this point, I've contributed as much as dramonic and have no fucking space to talk.

Talk to me more about this. Also talk more about Gamma and Dram in general.

gamma's slot is weird... house started to decline in my townreads because i had a few reads backwards (i think i townread camn too generously too fast D1, and Nacho is the only person making sense here at this point so if he's scum it's already gg), and I also can't shake this feeling he wasn't playing to his town game. my understanding of meta in general is super-not-nuanced obviously so you can ignore this but house is generally more abrasive and aggressive as town and also tends to make decent pushes. here he felt more charismatic and people-pleasing and just different from the house i knew from like 1 game (and a few ongoings but), and i felt like his contributions to town were much weaker than expected (i mean you can say the same of me so i don't think that's a valid point but still). gamma's ISO is pretty awful too so this slot flipping scum would NOT surprise me.

on dram...

You can smell the lylo setup.

this post was basically calling at least one of {House, Cakez, Kraska, Postie} scum (in context, mostly house), but notice the lack of votes for

any

of those slots after this post... it's just a really weird post, especially after kraska flipping scum.

but dram being weird doesn't necessarily make him scum i guess. i'd totally vote him and nacho's case is pretty good though and i think better articulates some of the strange things i saw about the slot in general.

@dram why am i town to you now

@gamma shush........ also dram is a dude

if i missed anything just quote it, i looked through all the recent posts and only saw this directed at me but like at this point i'm going insane so

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Camn, does your loved ability still work in MYLO?

because if not then wtf are people saying that there are 4 scum? we would have been in MYLO yesterday, and considering the lack of a quickhammer when we were testing camn's claim, either the entire scumteam was on camn (Dram, Elyse, Gamma, Cakez, Ranmaru all tested the claim) or there's only one scum left.

VOTE: Elyse

also nacho stop

i've dug through House's ISO to look for traitor crumbs and got nothing really. Lynching in {Elyse, Dram} is probably our best bet though (Dram only for the RVS vote but other than that it seems unlikely)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

UNVOTE:
we aren't in mylo

[gigabyteTroubadour]

like why wouldn't i vote

[gigabyteTroubadour]

^^^

thank you nacho

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Why are we lynching Dram today though? I'm fine with either.

House's interactions make more sense with an Elyse buddy. Gamma refused to give a real read on Elyse. It points to Elyse to me.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

djdnevfjf

i fucking hate this game

[gigabyteTroubadour]

-______-

house's interactions with nacho don't look like buddy interactions AT ALL

like why is it suspicious to derail a lynch from a traitor? house didn't leave very clear crumbs to nacho/kraska. it's either dram or elyse to me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ran do you still think there are four scum

[gigabyteTroubadour]

yes??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm not considering a nacho lynch

ever

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga: Do you deny that Nacho has ignored all good reasons to lynch Gamma?

was nacho even online when gamma slipped up with his dram read??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga: Do you deny that Nacho has ignored all good reasons to lynch Gamma?

was nacho even online when gamma slipped up with his dram read??

Answer the damn question.

i mean i didn't think his rebuttal to your case was that terrible

scum!nacho doesn't know that he's derailing a partner lynch and i don't think that was his motivation

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ran people have these things called emotions that impact how they play

example: D2+3 i was ""lurking"" because i had shit irl and this game was naueseating then. nacho is frustrated that this town is imploding on itself and it's crystal clear

so no if he's town he might not do that

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@utl elyse is voting nacho

Beat ya to it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

How is the town imploding on itself? Nacho is having a bitchfit. That's it.

ran isn't making sense and he's pretty much the town's leader so

if he's pushing a narrative that there's 4 scum then i'd say town is imploding on itself

i'm phoneposting so i'm not producing a case right now at midnight after just waking up

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i wish kraska and i were groupscum together

i really do

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Elyse

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Giga explain your Elyse/Dram team

i think there's 3 scum not four

[gigabyteTroubadour]

whatever giga just explain

literally nothing else makes sense

I'm town fmpov

Nacho and you are obvious town

The only case against Dram is that House RVS voted him after Kraska and that he's done fuckall this game... with a traitor flip i think dram doesn't make sense as scum... his d3 dayplay doesn't seem scum motivated and i'll explain why when i'm not on a phone

camn is cleared by a tracker

so that leaves elyse. i'd look at dram if elyse flips town but i doubt it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'll explain why when i'm not on a phone

this is key

[gigabyteTroubadour]

what TRAITOR sees their role pm and thinks "gee there must be a third party here"

like gamma's new and all but why are we assuming scum can be genuine... i thought it was a traitor crumb so he didn't have to ass a read on you and give a reason to never lynch you

[gigabyteTroubadour]

his play today

house's interactions with him

specifics later

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Why does House's interactions with him matter

didn't house jump onto the nacho push/side with elyse

like if i were a traitor i wouldn't bus my partners so eagerly early game

i have to refresh my memory though

but nacho put it better than i could just now basically

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I kinda like Nacho's responses, tbh.

Scum!Nacho casting shade on Town!Elyse?

I think so!

i can't see this coming from a TRAITOR whose job is to let their partners know who they are and that they are on their side

honestly

can we use this quote to clear nacho

[gigabyteTroubadour]

ignore 332 tho

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Okay a few reads.
I have Elyse as hard town now.

i mean this is also an interesting first impression

i'll think about it

[gigabyteTroubadour]

can we agree to collectively forget about this game as a whole regardless of who wins

i feel like that'll benefit everyone's sanity here. i played a shit game and have only regrets.

I'm against no lynching unless there's decent evidence that camn is a third party (which there isn't). My vote is basically on Dram but I'm going to see if there's anything that indicates scum!Nacho. House taking Elyse's side in Nacho vs. Elyse makes it more likely that Nacho is town, but House is also the kind of player who would deliberately not play traitor normally. But then there's also:

Well if the guilty is as damning as you're making it sound then I gues nacho is scum after all

obviously no one was going to buy kraska's shit so this is probably WIFOM, but like if it DID work out... the scumteam would have basically auto-lossed. scum!nacho gets lynched, single kill goes through, kraska gets lynched for lying, house is endgamed. it's not a plan that works at all long-term and i can't see kraska taking a risk like that when there's a traitor.

kraska and dram also have pretty decent associations, at least from kraska. like there's 213 which is a busywork question kraska pretty much asked everyone but dram ignores it for like 600 posts and kraska never asks dram to answer it :/. Everyone else answered it pretty quickly after it was asked, so at that point I can only imagine that dram would ignore it because he doesn't have to sort his own partner. that and the whole D2 "i'll kill dram tomorrow!" are pretty much their only interactions together. a double-bus is pretty much the perfect strategy to use there

I'm considering asking for a massclaim but I'm not really sure what it would solve. We technically don't know if the scum even had fakeclaims in the first place, since Kraska straight up claimed scum and Gamma/House never claimed flavor. I guess it would answer the question of "what the fuck is camn" but do we need to know what the fuck camn is? She's not group scum, and if she's a serial killer she's probably been deliberately no-killing every night which makes no sense.

Giga?
I really don't think it's Nacho, and whatever camn is she's not town unless she's a ninja on top of being a bulletproof-loved sundae

if the scumteam had a ninja wouldn't they use it every single night?

and what do you mean camn is not town...? She's not third party (why hasn't she been killing? she could have won by now) and she's not groupscum, so she has to be town??

and do you really think it was me...

You had me sold on kraska town.

She's turns up guilty and you start acting guilty.

house was using me as a scapegoat pretty obviously D2.

but then like right around his ban he proxied his vote to nacho to lynch you :/

fuck maybe i should just try to reread and get one coherent stance, i keep looking through isos and changing my mind.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

at least read 1301 because i'd rather focus on gamesolving than defending myself

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I also am having a lot of trouble seeing House as scum with Elyse. His play towards Elyse is extremely funky if they're scum-scum.

Nacho, the change here was because House flipped traitor, right?

At least that's why I changed my mind.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

not lurking, busy irl sorry

I'm Justin Jones, crazy grandpa and VT. Not knowing whether or not scum had fakeclaims makes this pretty difficult to flavor-solve, there aren't any holes in the family tree and I feel like it'd be too obvious if both of the groupscum were just from outside of the family.

Camn, can you explain what you saw in 407? Ranmaru and I kept trying to bring it up throughout the game but I think it always got drowned out.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

camn this is kind of pointless to keep bringing up but you keep forgetting you're confirmed town... there's no way there's a 3p AND a traitor, and you were tracked by cakez

also yeah i don't have a doubt in my mind now it's dram... i just dug through House's ISO and there's like zero House-Nacho interaction D1. there has to be SOME conversation in order for traitor signaling to work out, right?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Vote: Dramonic

Seriously? Are you really not seeing hiplop's contributions to the game?

VOTE

*hops into thread*

Hi!

-plop-

UNVOTE

*hops out of thread*

Living up to his name, he is.

yeah ok it's dram

are we ready to start voting at this point? because i sure am but like... it's mylo. (also does camn get the hammer because she's conftown or do we hammertest nacho?)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: dram

i played an awful game but a win would be nice :/

especially if my only scumread from D1 turned out to be correct

(also i still think an elyse/nacho lynch yesterday was the right play but we can argue that post-game)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

oh thank god it's just dram

if you need me to answer any questions or make any arguments i will. this won't be too difficult

(also first time in a xylo where i'm not conftown )

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Do you have links to your scumgames? Off-site links are fine.

Sadly, all my scum experience comes from face-to-face mafia or irc stuff I don't have saved. I've yet to roll anything besides town here or on any forum.

In a bit I can link games I've played with Kraska where we were both town and friends (my newbie wouldn't count)? Will that help to see how we normally interact?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Nacho

Mini Normal 1829, Kraska+me dual ISO (both town, I replace into the game at ISO #64)

Open 646, dual ISO that starts at Kraska's replacement (both of us are town

actually looking through this ISOs rly embarrassed me because kraska is obviously.... town.... in these... while here she was not....

but yeah this is the closest i can provide to scum meta.... basically you can see what TvT interactions between kraska and me look like and compare them to the SvT ones here

[gigabyteTroubadour]

@Nacho

Mini Normal 1829, Kraska+me dual ISO (both town, I replace into the game at ISO #64)

Open 646, dual ISO that starts at Kraska's replacement (both of us are town)

actually looking through these ISOs rly embarrassed me because kraska is obviously.... town.... in these... while here she was not....

but yeah this is the closest i can provide to scum meta.... basically you can see what TvT interactions between kraska and me look like and compare them to the SvT ones here

ebwop

nacho, anything on your mind that you want cleared up? i can't really think of anything else to post but the game needs your input to progress at this point.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

In all of your games with kraska, you didn't really try to clear her with reasoning like "she's not voting on a vanity wagon right now!"
Why were you as convinced of dramonic being scum as you were at the start of MyLo? It seemed like you ended up voting pretty quickly and I'm not really sure why.

I am a bit weirded out by dramonic pushing camn lynch still and tossing out the "you're just salty for me pushing you based on role" line - it seems like a pretty fucking weird endgame push.

i mean that's because i never got to experience D1 RVS with her. think of the easy D1 townread as the reverse of camn's shortlist for culling - basically house and kraska are the only players i've played with here and were pretty much the only reason i even joined this game. camn doesn't like lynching people she knows at the start of the game and i'm not much different. in all of the games i linked, by the time kraska and i were in the same game the dynamic of the game was much more serious and it would be stupid to ""clear"" kraska for a reason like that.

i voted for dram when I did because A: I've been scumreading him the whole game, B: I don't think a town of Me/Camn/Dramonic deserves the win anyway, C: I was townreading you. Obviously I had some doubts about it being dram that I expressed earlier today, but I'm never going to be 100% certain about a scumread until that person is confirmed scum to me.

Plus, House's interactions with you don't look like Traitor/Scum interactions, while House/Dramonic group dynamics have been sketchy all game. The quote about Hiplop, for example, looked like House trying to deflect pressure Dramonic was receiving not to "save" him from a wagon of two or three votes, but to signal to Dram that he's on his side. House's interactions with both of us don't really seem to have any underlying motive of signaling.

also i don't find dram's continual psuedo-push (shade throwing?) on camn is weird at all. dram suspected camn of being a 3rd party for the whole game, it'd look weird if he had to drop that today. but the truth is that she's town, and if dram were town and thought that camn were a serial killer, the correct play for him is to push for a mislynch (i.e., self-vote) or a no-lynch and hope for a crosskill (no fucking way is camn a FULL BP as a serial killer). notice he's pushing for a "scum" lynch instead and never considers a no-lynch. that's not town play, that's scum throwing around bullshit that they know is fake.

p-edit: ok you pretty much said what i did but yeah

nacho, just curious, why do you think a scum!dram asks camn specifically to hammer? if he's vengeful (only way i can think of that matters), how does that make sense in the set-up? i don't know how relevant it is but it bugs me

[gigabyteTroubadour]

the correct play for him is to push for a mislynch (i.e., self-vote) or a no-lynch and hope for a crosskill (no fucking way is camn a FULL BP as a serial killer).

full BP is very common for an SK actually.

but with a loved modifier too?

and in a mini??

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i'm going to look through like as many minis as possible because i don't believe that a full bulletproof SK makes any sense outside of a large game.

if camn WERE a full BP serial killer, then you would be right. but if she's 1-shot (which if she's third party she would be), then her 1-shot is already used up so a crosskill can happen, thus self-voting to increase the chances of a crossfire makes perfect sense...

if you could save me the work and link me a balanced setup with a full BP serial killer in a mini though that would be nice.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i played a terrible game and somehow won... that seems to be a pattern

gj everyone (to town especially), sorry I barely pulled my weight here. good news is that i'm not going to be in a situation where i'm in 5 games at once ever again, so you can expect better play from me in the future

i loved the flavor and the set-up was really creative!

i still would like resolution on my serial killer spec though even if it didn't matter

[gigabyteTroubadour]

By the way
I took the liberty of pre-inning me and u and boring for Gif's large normal >:)
Looks like that will take a while to hit signups tho. But it's next on the queue

i don't think i like large games :////

but w/e i'll do it because i'm literally only going to be playing 1 newbie at a time from here on out... i'll (try to) make an exception.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Lol ran, it's fine about harping on me, I deserved it because I was basically useless

but ty~

[gigabyteTroubadour]

But yo getting lynched day one totally made us win mhmm

i believe it tbh