Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[Wisdom]

Regardless, I disagree with Wisdom's plan (and no, not just because either scenario has me dead - if my death gives info to town, so be it), but because I think it gives way too much power to one person - leon. Ultimately he gets to choose whether or not he's going to listen to the lynchee, and even if it means his death he could severely hurt town with a PR shot.

That's not my plan. He doesn't listen to any lynchee. He just shoots who we decide right now.
What you're referring to is Gray's plan.

[Wisdom]

dont need your approval

[Wisdom]

totally
as if you're flipping town

[Wisdom]

Nope. Even if you're somehow town I don't trust you to pick a kill - you scumread Bulba and you're scumreading me. But even if you had been more accurate, a group of people deciding is always better than an individual deciding

[Wisdom]

zzz go twist someone else's words

[Wisdom]

I explained why your plan is bullshit and you're twisting it into me being afraid letting you picking the shot

I don't blame you, you don't have any other choice right now, but yeah

[Wisdom]

You can't possibly argue that one person deciding on their own is better than the whole playerlist deciding together which person they want dead for the better progression of the game.

pedit: yep that's why I want shaddow vigged and was pushing him when nobody wanted to listen that shaddow is scum

[Wisdom]

done talking with you

[Wisdom]

reminder that Leon shoots shaddow

Hammer away

[Wisdom]

I feel like he claimed scum already with his selfvote but yeah

[Wisdom]

What choice does he have?

[Wisdom]

I mean, he tried to push Bulba but cant anymore. He tried to generate paranoia on me as much as he could but failed. Its hard for him to push anyone else given how we townread each other

[Wisdom]

i disagree that im universally townread, especially after my stabbing

[Wisdom]

Hey wisdom, can you kill again today?

nope

VOTE: nacho

[Wisdom]

kraska youre the third arent you?

Cakez was obviously not calling me scum

[Wisdom]

i just went through shadows iso...nothing stands out to me so far...but he needs to post more content bc most of his iso is about his pedantic comment on tammy's post

shadow's play in the purge mafia came off as "playing safe" and he got scumread for it...im waiting for more content but i think shadow laying low and playing safe isnt particularly scummy for him

pedit: theres pere too i think

Yep, youre probably the third

[Wisdom]

stab: nacho

[Wisdom]

yes he does
well theres a discrepancy between his scumpile and the stuff he's saying, but essentially, according to his last couple of posts, you should be in his scumpile but youre not

no there isn't, he obviously meant leon as scum

[Wisdom]

VOTE: kraska

[Wisdom]

she's not wrong, she's scum

[Wisdom]

and nacho is the other one

[Wisdom]

3p are scum too

[Wisdom]

that's no reason to call her town

did you see the shaddowez posts I quoted?

that's a shaddowez buddy

[Wisdom]

VOTE: nacho

[Wisdom]

kagami is town, farside.

[Wisdom]

zzz
its nacho and kraska

[Wisdom]

what is the point for them having a way to stop nightkills if mine is a daykill and yours is strongman

just for tammy's which is already limited?

[Wisdom]

because thats sonehow different from town cakez

[Wisdom]

bullshit

[Wisdom]

The only one i could be convinced about is peregrine

Tammy, Kagami, Cakez, farside, Infinity are town.

[Wisdom]

i dont care about cases

[Wisdom]

Belkar flavor is town. GI is neither belkar nor Mr. Scruffy. It's apparently some coincidence that wraith did the scruffy stuff pre-game.

He or his fakeclaim could be Shojo

why wouldn't his fakeclaim just be Xykon.

you know, if it were fake.

I think this is town

[Wisdom]

Strongest piece of associatives is nacho never talking about shaddow and not noticing the scumminess in his posts. We usually see the same things, here only I did and nacho was acting like there was nothing alignment indicative.

[Wisdom]

Infinity can u actually make up ur mind on me? If ure going to call me scum and then boohoo anything people bring up against me, then I don't get what ure doing

tbh i also find shaddow's thing a reason to doubt my read on you

[Wisdom]

not impossible

Id lynch leon today too

[Wisdom]

And given his attempt to get kraska wagoned over nacho i could see him being the third scum after nacho

[Wisdom]

Plus theres the missing scum kill

pedit: some mods do

[Wisdom]

It might not even be a vigshot but some mechanic where scum sacrifice shaddow for some power and leon claimed it as a vig for town points

[Wisdom]

Infinity what makes him a likely SK exactly?

[Wisdom]

Alright yeah. We lynch nacho and have leon use his flavor cop on someone, then we lynch him tomorrow

[Wisdom]

kraska, cakez, or peregrine are probably good choices for the flavor cop

[Wisdom]

kay.
Im feeling better about you already

[Wisdom]

Any ideas about possible lynchers on town flavors?

Miko being a lyncher on me (Belkar) could be an idea, but i think he would just shoot me if that was the case

Crystal being a lyncher on Haley is out too

Maybe Nale being a lyncher on Elan?

[Wisdom]

yeah no

[Wisdom]

There's not another 3p and that reaction feels like it confirms we're spot on about you being lyncher on town

[Wisdom]

because there aren't two 3p in a 13p game

[Wisdom]

no, what there is to balance it is that your target is Elan instead of Xykon

[Wisdom]

because it's a mod given fakeclaim

[Wisdom]

That's an irrelevant question
You will flavor cop who we tell you to, and then we'll decide what to do

[Wisdom]

smart guy.

[Wisdom]

Tammy dont make me paranoid pls
Greyice was scummy as hell

[Wisdom]

People who disagree with you are not scum wisdom, you know that.

He wasnt scummy because he disagreed

[Wisdom]

You're not a shining example of town wisdom.

..okay? How is that relevant?

[Wisdom]

I don't have problems with Leon's claim anymore after last night. I have problems with Wisdom and it feels incredibly validating to see yammy having a similar line of thought.

yeah this needs rope
No way Nacho doesnt know im town

[Wisdom]

lol
nacho pls

[Wisdom]

you know better than to ask stupid things and even better to expect answers to them from me

[Wisdom]

Yes, it is, nacho. When was the last time you failed to townread me and i was town? Has it ever even happened? Even if everyone on this site stops being able to tell im town you will still see through whatever bullshit playstyle i adopt and understand what im doing. I cannot accept that suddenly youve become so shallow that you think ive "done nothing town all game".

[Wisdom]

@wisdom Why were you so concerned about my voting leon over shadow here if you wanted them both dead?

Because it felt like you were leon's buddy and you wanted to wagon shaddow in order to save leon

[Wisdom]

Fuck it, 2 town vig-type roles and an SK aren't in this game

VOTE: wisdom

True, an SK isnt. Leon is lyncher on town.

[Wisdom]

Why? Why was it suspicious to you that I wanted people to vote my scumread over my nullread? Why was it suspicious that I was concerned when people voted the person with only 5 posts over someone they also scumread with more posts?

Because number of posts is irrelevant; they were both equally scummy in my eyes and i had you trying to stop a push on one of them to get a push on the other.

[Wisdom]

You're not concerned about the number of killing role claims?

What if tammy is scum who tried to cast doubt on you

Not really? I was oneshot, Leon was oneshot, tammy's is disabled

Given Leon's reaction to my push its practically confirmed he was lying about having scum as a target so theres your balance

[Wisdom]

Tammy has made me a little worried though. I was expecting her to share my opinion about Nacho and not make a big deal out of my stabbing

[Wisdom]

. Plus the part where he (she?) and kraska scumread each other and never voted each other.

I looked into that yesterday but forgot to ask you; where did kagami scumread kraska in 8-10?

[Wisdom]

Who thinks scum is outside {nacho, kraska, kagami, wisdom}?

I dont think kraska or kagami is scum

[Wisdom]

If you disagree, ok, but why was I scummy for that?

Because you were actively trying to downplay the leon wagon with posts like "he only has 3 posts" and "im not a fan of voting for lurkers" and stuff while trying to get people on shaddow. To someone with scumreads on both, how do you imagine this looks?

[Wisdom]

Ok wisdom who do you think is scum other than nacho

Im not sure
Maybe Peregrine
I can never be confident in reading Cakez though i really want to think hes town here
And then theres Tammy whose last posts feel off key

[Wisdom]

you, farside and Kagami are confident townreads, and kraska joined this group as of latest posts

[Wisdom]

Leon's obviously doing this because he wants flavor claims, but even so I agree with everything he said

[Wisdom]

can we agree on a flavorcop target for him before Nacho is hammered?

I think peregrine is good

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

sure

[Wisdom]

Yes, I've given good reasons and I don't see you commenting on them

[Wisdom]

Why would him voting Tammy would be worthy of that reaction?

[Wisdom]

Also there's an explanation for the lack of scum kills. So I think u guys should forget it for now

for this mainly

[Wisdom]

Yes, I've given good reasons and I don't see you commenting on them

Your reasons were "nacho's not seeing what I'm seeing so he must be scum!" Iirc....anything else?

No, that's not my reasons.

[Wisdom]

or rather, that's a tiny portion of them

[Wisdom]

just this once since you have me in a good mood

The main reason is his stance on shaddow; he has consistently avoided talking about him, to the point where I had to ask him for a read on him which rarely happens; and even then I got a null as a response. Instead, he gladly pushed Wraith and Leon, both of who we know now are not aligned with shaddow.

And then yes, there is the burden of proficiency you brought up. I've played more games with Nacho that I've played with any other scummer. Nacho almost always disagrees with my views, that's not new, and he's usually right too. However in this case he didn't disagree with my view on shaddow, he specifically avoided talking about him. Maybe he didn't see what you saw in shaddow's posts, you'll say. But that's the thing, Nacho usually spots similar things that I do in people, even if we disagree about them, and him having a null on shaddow when in my opinion there were scum indicative things in his posts is off. And then there's his doubt on me today, which again is unnatural given his experience with me. Like I said, even if the whole playerlist thinks I am scum, Nacho is able to tell I am town when I am town. I don't recall a single time he has misread town-me (don't quote me on this, maybe I'm missing one or two). So yeah, I understand this isn't a very important point for any of you, but it is for me.

[Wisdom]

see also Leon's 1297, they are good points

[Wisdom]

yep, it is incredibly obvious alright

[Wisdom]

because you're not nacho

[Wisdom]

yeah that's crap
I've been bothered by less than that be it from you or other people and you've seen it

[Wisdom]

His approach towards Leon today (acting like he's lyncher on town with absolutely no basis to do so) is scummy as shit; he's doing it because he's setting up a mislynch on Leon he drives through the mislynch on me.

also what the fuck is this?
a "mislynch" on Leon?
You think Leon is town or what?

[Wisdom]

not to mention the "no basis" is laughable

[Wisdom]

Okay and if we lynch nacho today and he flips town, how will that affect your reads wisdom and what will your new lynhpool look like?

I suppose I would question my Kagami townread a little since she's agreed on my Nacho suspicion since the beginning? I don't know. Nacho is not likely to flip town.

[Wisdom]

love how kraska is buying the ate

[Wisdom]

yep, it's as cakez put it. nacho is desperate.

[Wisdom]

he already said he will

[Wisdom]

despite not having any reason to do so

why is nobody answering to this

[Wisdom]

because i'm not repeating myself for any scum, and you're not an exception

[Wisdom]

yep. just like shaddow's posts were null.

[Wisdom]

lol indeed
"mislynch" aside, you're making it look like I'm "setting up" a lynch on him when it's absolutely clear we're lynching him before endgame anyway

[Wisdom]

nacho pls
You've personally claimed scum to me when you act like me shooting Bulba is surprising
As such I have no reason to explain anything to you
good luck convincing the others

[Wisdom]

true, the more I let you talk, the more it is likely you'll convince the others you're not scum. That's true for most scum.

so, in short, bullshit.

[Wisdom]

oh, it's pretty easy
do i care to do it? no

[Wisdom]

predictions;
Cakez is not going to buy the AtE
Infinity is going to change his mind and vote me today
Tammy is probably going to end up townreading Nacho
farside will keep voting Nacho
kraska will continue eating up the AtE

[Wisdom]

Imo a hard thing for any scum to do is to continue an intense extended interaction

I've never found it hard to continue an intense extended interaction; instead, it's helpful in getting me townread

[Wisdom]

yep, the point is that such things depend on personality. It might hold true for you, maybe for some others like you, but you can't base scumhunting on it

but do trust your gut, by all means.

[Wisdom]

The alternative explanations are: 8-3-1 setup despite many vanillas

9-3-1 you mean? 13 players

[Wisdom]

I feel like Cakez is constantly hitting the same notes I am which is pretty reassuring; and though it worried me a little at the beginning, his push on me is not that likely to come from scum-him, he's much better off buddying me

[Wisdom]

The alternative explanations are: 8-3-1 setup despite many vanillas

9-3-1 you mean? 13 players

yes.

why is that "alternative"? that's what I'm expecting

[Wisdom]

what's the connection between the two?

[Wisdom]

cakez and nacho I mean

[Wisdom]

You actually think that greyice is the type of player to give up if he's up against too many town reads?

I don't understand why you've fixated on that and that's what is probably making me worry. It's not like that was the reason I was scumreading Grey

[Wisdom]

I don't get what the big deal with Kagami's hammer is either. What information do you feel was being gathered that the hammer interrupted?

[Wisdom]

not seeing how that's a stupid question

yes, I used that, I was being confbiased. Have you never seen townies confbias is what you're telling me?

[Wisdom]

I think you're one of the people who have played enough with me to instantly recognize that move as me being town. You're certainly not Nacho-level where you not doing so makes you scum, but still I wouldn't expect you to be troubled by it

[Wisdom]

Their interactions yesterday felt weird.

What about today's interactions? My first impression was that Nacho was trying to appeal to Cakez to change his mind, but I wouldn't put it past Nacho to theatre that shit up with his buddy

[Wisdom]

meh
I am not sure who makes sense as scum with Nacho and shaddow
If it's Kagami or Cakez then the bussing is really good on their part
Peregrine could be but then some of his posts make me think he's town
Maybe I should re-examine farside too :/

[Wisdom]

how do you feel about kraska?

[Wisdom]

hmm
I ISO'd farside and I realize I like her less than I thought.
Mainly because she never mentioned shaddow. Even when I asked her about him in 565.

[Wisdom]

Ugh this is the part where I start doubting my read

predictable

[Wisdom]

and him jumping to kraska being someone who is just "falling for my AtE" instead of scumpartners with me also doesn't seem natural for a Wisdom reaction.

Youre full of shit. I specifically said why im townreading kraska and you are conveniently ignoring it so you can push this shit.

[Wisdom]

That whole post is full of bullshit im not going to bother with

[Wisdom]

Who do you consider to be viable nacho partners, wisdom?

Already discussed this

Wisdom how long has it been since you and nacho played together?

I think Machina was the last one, a little less than a year ago

[Wisdom]

VOTE: shadow

I like this vote at this point of time
She could as easily vote wraith or leon but didnt

[Wisdom]

Yeah I need to step back I'm a bit pissy with infinity and it's coming across in all my post.

tammy did you miss kraska's post re: missing kill?

[Wisdom]

ignore the quote

[Wisdom]

Yeah I need to step back I'm a bit pissy with infinity and it's coming across in all my post.

i know what happened in Saki but at least there Nacho didn't doubt I was town for one second

[Wisdom]

goddamn quote

[Wisdom]

since you're here, how do you feel about a Cakez/farside team?

I'm rereading the game with the mind that Nacho is town and that's the only thing that makes sense to me

[Wisdom]

One thing I disliked was that farside expressed a scumread on both Infinity and Bulba for their "bad/manufactured" push on me, but said absolutely nothing to Cakez for doing the same (and Cakez's was arguably way more shallow)

In general I don't like their interactions.

[Wisdom]

Cakez's scumread on shaddow only comes when other people express it, and even then he votes Leon

[Wisdom]

and then farside also votes Leon without saying a thing about shaddow

makes sense, she wants to quickly lynch Leon before we decide to go back to shaddow

[Wisdom]

Yeah I need to step back I'm a bit pissy with infinity and it's coming across in all my post.

Crazy as this sounds I don't think kraska is scum.

VOTE: nacho

farside please explain what changed here. You were voting me and pushing that all three vigs can't be scum. Why the vote on nacho?

[Wisdom]

ignore the first quote, it keeps crawling into my posts

[Wisdom]

all three vigs can't be scum.

town*

[Wisdom]

Town - farside, kraska, PV
Leantown - Tammy, Wisdom, Infinity, Nacho
Leanscum - Cakez, Kagami, Leon
Scum - Bulba, Wraith

(Details to come probably tomorrow, Mondays and meetings suck)

Also the list is a good indicator that 1 scum buddy is in the leaning scum list and I'm pretty certain cakez is town.

why are you pretty certain cakes is town?
also i think shadow put his buddies in different categories

Would you say his play reminds you of blood wars?
If you have a good reason to scum read him I'll read it.
But so far he is doing a lot more figuring things out here.

I want a better explanation than this on your Cakez townread.
Because this just looks like you're avoiding explaining it.

[Wisdom]

Ok, done rereading.

I hope I don't regret this, but.

Let's not lynch Nacho. Let's have him flavor copped.

I am feeling really confident the two remaining scum are Cakez and farside.

VOTE: Cakez

[Wisdom]

The thing with Nacho is I have him at such a high pedestal, that I immediately scumread him when he does things below the level I am expecting. Like, in my mind, it seems crazy that Nacho can't tell I am town here, or that Nacho wouldn't suspect shaddow, etc etc. But I have to realize that he's just human like all of us and therefore not infallible. The fault is mine for overestimating his town abilities.

If I scratch that part of my scumread, kraska is basically right that I don't have much. All I have is his lack of interactions with shaddow, but then again most of the playerlist lacks in interactions with shaddow. Making this part a bad reason for a scumread.

So I am going to accept that I am probably tunneling town-Nacho here.

[Wisdom]

Cakez, what is your read on farside?

[Wisdom]

@Nacho

Leon is lyncher on town for the following reasons:

1) Like you yourself said, Roy does not make sense as a lyncher. Yes, his main quest is to slay Xykon, sure. But that does not mean he'd leave his party behind after that's accomplished, it doesn't make sense. As long as there other dangers he'd stick around to help, that's what I figure.

You want to add a third party to your Order of the Stick game? There are villains, lower level than Xykon, who are ideal for this, with the Linear Guild being the obvious favorite. Why take a town flavor and make them 3p if you can use one of them? And don't tell me "to subvert expected flavor" like Leon argued, because that's what fakeclaims are for. Which brings me to

2) When have you heard of a scum or 3p having identical flavor in their actual character and their fakeclaim character? Leon claims he is Roy and has Roy for a fakeclaim, how does that make any sense? Why is the fakeclaim even needed? No, even besides that, why is the fakeclaim needed when his role is basically town-oriented? Mods give fakeclaims to scum because if they claimed their actual role they would be lynched, no? Do you think that a lyncher on scum is a claim that Magna expected we would lynch so he needed to add a fakeclaim?

3) Balance. I am town and held a dayvig. Tammy is town and holds a vig. Leon is 3p and holds a vig. Even with Tammy's being disabled, if we include the lynch, it's possible to get rid of scum in just one day and night. Grey is right that Magna would never allow that. If, however, Leon is a lyncher on town, it makes more sense. In the unlikely case that I dayvig scum and we lynch another scum, Leon is not going to vig the third scum if he can help it, because then he will lose.

4) Have you seen his reaction to us

daring

to speculate the lyncher might be on town? Instead of shooting it down, he comes up with "oh well there might be another lyncher". No. And when I tell him "yeah right, there aren't two 3p in a 13p" he says "i dont get why you discard the possibility based just on that", meaning he knows he's full of bullshit.

[Wisdom]

I vote based on who I scum read. Theory about mod Balance isn't enough to keep my vote.

really? Then why did you scumread me at daystart?

[Wisdom]

Tell me why you have an associate based on absolutely nothing and changed your view on nacho for literally theory bs?

"Absolutely nothing" is what you and Cakez have done this game

You've pushed townies for idiotic reasons only to opportunistically jump on popular wagons (Leon yesterday, Nacho today)

As for Cakez, he reluctantly bussed shaddow when he saw everyone was scumreading him and went from deathtunneling on me to hardsheeping me on Nacho. Because that's totally how natural read progression goes.

[Wisdom]

Oh as for reasons I town read a player it's well know my reasons look terrible by all, which is why I don't explain it.

yeah no. You had no problem explaining your reads in past town games; this is just a terrible excuse.

[Wisdom]

@Nacho part 2

I am not sure you remember which game Chain of Command was, given you referred to you and ffery being "obvscum" which doesn't make sense; you were town and ffery wasn't in the game. So, in that game I had my most toxic deathtunnel I've ever had, on Bulbazak, where each post he made not only I grew more certain he's scum, but I couldn't wait to have him out of the game. After an unbelievably toxic D1, I got him lynched, and then selfvoted in shame D2 like I had promised to do if he flipped town. Of course mafia won.

After that game I've basically not played with Bulbazak. We played once in goodmorning's Playing Cards where he was scum but I was scared to push him due to the above trauma (thankfully he got lynched D1 despite that). We were teamed up for Team Mafia but we didn't interact much as he wasn't active. I recall him being in one or two bastard large games where I was scum, but those obviously don't count in terms of me having to figure him out.

Back to this game. First of all I should note that I was planning on using my dayvig in D1 anyway - I don't survive N1 all that often and I would hate dying without having used it. At the time of the stabbing my reads were basically 679; confident scumreads on shaddow and Leon, small paranoia on Infinity and Grey for trying to push shaddow over Leon. My read on Bulba was not town. In the beginning I had accepted that this is how Bulba posts, him scumreading me is okay, especially given I'm playing differently this game. His "everything is screaming this is scum-Wisdom" in 561 however felt to me like at that point his goal had ceased to be trying to figure me out and moved on to convince others. He had decided

I am

scum instead of just being paranoid

I could be

scum. I said so in 562 and noted how I agreed with the inclusion of Bulba in farside's scumreads in 564. Then in comes Grey, with a confident scumread on Bulba, which at first gave me paranoia about Grey, but like I said in 679 I found it more likely he was just being stupidly overconfident town. Which is why I held myself from stabbing him after 671, where I literally typed stab: grey and deleted it. And then came 730 which basically continued the stance he had started in 561; posts about how I am scum, posts where he tried to explain to you and others how I am scum, and some questions to me that felt like they were just there, without any real intent to draw anything from them. I just saw manipulation in it. I thought about it for a minute, tops; if I tried to answer to him, first of all I would wait ages for my answers, since he was not caught up and took ages to respond. And then when he would finally answer, I would just get more of the same. I cannot play the game like that, you know me, I want interactions here and now so I can get a read. This is part of what prompted the Chain of Command incident after all, there's a huge playstyle clash between me and him. So yes, I figured that even if I'm stabbing town, it's not all that bad. At the very least I'll be avoiding a heated prolonged interaction with him that could result in another Chain of Command. Grey is scumreading him too, who knows, maybe he's right, and at the very least he will stop pestering me about bluffing and bullshit. That played a part too. And boom, I stabbed.

In case that helps.

[Wisdom]

You think it's scummy that I reevaluated a tunnel on you and then agreed with a scumread you had?

Yes. I thought and still think it was scummy you even had a tunnel on me in the first place. I can buy you seeing you are wrong and changing your mind, but I cannot buy you deciding to go back to blindly sheeping me just like you do every game. If you had really scumread me you'd be more careful about sheeping me.

[Wisdom]

who's scum with Nacho?

[Wisdom]

or who's scum in general if you are now not scumreading Nacho which I'm guessing you're saying?

[Wisdom]

You can accuse me of nothing but not kagami?
Or kraska?
Or peregrine?
That's a lot of looking past others you are doing there.

Why would I accuse them? They've done enough things to earn their townreads.

[Wisdom]

I vote based on who I scum read. Theory about mod Balance isn't enough to keep my vote.

really? Then why did you scumread me at daystart?

It was theory based.
That was pretty clear.

but you just said you vote based on who you scumread and not on theory

[Wisdom]

This reads as a slip but I think more like a buss at this point.

sorry, you're not making sense
what did I slip, or who am I bussing?

[Wisdom]

switching reads isn't scummy, cute misrep

[Wisdom]

I've already said why kraska and Kagami are town; Peregrine has been gut since the beginning

yes, I did, your point?

pedit: No, that's not why I called Cakez scum, you're misrepping.

[Wisdom]

thanks for making me confident I made the right choice

[Wisdom]

And no, my question is not dumb, you just can't answer it. Yes, I called Nacho town, how is that a slip or a bus again?

You just spit out words hoping someone buys them.

[Wisdom]

It's a slip because only scum know who's town.
It could be a buss because you 289 on nacho makes 0 sense.

Sorry, thats nonsense. Ive explained my thought process in detail.

[Wisdom]

Also to tack on to my farside townread, I think her recent frustration with Wisdom looks very genuine.

Haha

no, farside is being obvious scum now. Her reactions are the same as when I caught her here.

[Wisdom]

^manipulative
Youre just like you were in duck duck goose

[Wisdom]

And youre still making zero sense on top of that

[Wisdom]

Because youre literally the same (and besides i have played like 8 games with you)
And even then i have much stronger reasons than meta for scumreading you that ive already mentioned

And im voting your buddy; i can lynch you in either order

[Wisdom]

youre still not making any sense with the nacho thing btw; im just letting it go because youve made it obvious you dont intend to make sense

[Wisdom]

Actually im not letting it go

Please explain whats wrong with my explanation in 1491 and detail what my scum motivation for passing on the nacho lynch is

[Wisdom]

VOTE: farside

[Wisdom]

done talking with you, you can now hang

[Wisdom]

Still think wisdom/nacho is S/T because I would very much expect them to start engaging and working together after wisdom's turnaround. Not sure if nacho has posted since then so it might just be wisdom scum.

What?

I dont follow your thought process, explain

[Wisdom]

i still wanna know how "if nacho hasnt posted it might mean wisdom scum" makes sense

[Wisdom]

kagami vote farside

whether with nacho or cakez, that's today's lynch

[Wisdom]

though it's with cakez and its obvious really

[Wisdom]

hm?

[Wisdom]

argument is everyone else is town and reading the game with those two as scum makes sense
also what I quoted when I did that

[Wisdom]

lets lynch cakes first and get farside copped instead...i feel better about a cakes lynch

no, farside is better
and i prefer nacho copped just to be sure

[Wisdom]

kagami what are you doing

Leon is not town, why are you trying to cast doubt on me through him?

[Wisdom]

what problems do you have with the scenario Leon is lyncher on town and my reasoning for it?

[Wisdom]

I agree with that and I included it in my reasoning; if you assume both me and Tammy are town, which makes more sense, him lyncher on town or lyncher on scum?

[Wisdom]

why SK rather than lyncher on town?

[Wisdom]

also I find it hard to believe he's SK with a lyncher fakeclaim
If we lynched Xykon and he still lived it would be instaloss for him

You can argue it's the same for him being a lyncher on a town flavor but at least in that case he has the chance to win before we lynch Xykon, it makes more sense

[Wisdom]

my assumption is he didnt realize how pro-town a lyncher on scum claim is and he thought he had to make it more town

I mean, it doesn't make sense that he's actually a pro-town lyncher and has a fakeclaim

[Wisdom]

oh, now I get why you were questioning his sheeping me

you were right, if he was pro-town it would not make sense for him to think I am town

[Wisdom]

Why is wisdom town to you? What do you think about thing about the scumteam being eliminated by n1?

The Magna quote everyone keeps bringing up, it's about the entire game ending N1.

you should be thinking im scum based on that quote, not town

[Wisdom]

I will not comment on this topic further.

maybe you want to truthfully claim at this point?

[Wisdom]

given his reaction to the lyncher on town suspicions, im fairly confident that's what he is

[Wisdom]

plus what I said in 1611

whatever he is, it should be possible for him to win before we lynched xykon given his fakeclaim

[Wisdom]

My theory is that he got 2 fakeclaims, 1 town, and 1 pro-town lyncher.

and why didnt he just claim the town one?

[Wisdom]

oh nvm, there's the scumclaim

[Wisdom]

i wouldnt mind that now that we lost his flavor cop

but id prefer lynching mafia

[Wisdom]

btw a thought I had that I dont remember if I posted is that Cakez was okay to have shaddow vigged because they have a scum doc and they would save him

but obv they didnt expect strongman

[Wisdom]

nacho dont you have more important things to talk about than leon?

[Wisdom]

:/

you want to make me paranoid again, dont you

[Wisdom]

yep, both tammy and kraska are town. I think I know their flavor too

[Wisdom]

dont worry, youll be the next "tossup"

[Wisdom]

if only nacho wasnt so underwhelming game would be over already

[Wisdom]

no, not really
i would never have a confident townread on bulba and thus id never gamesolve

[Wisdom]

i wasnt aware xykon stabs people

[Wisdom]

i dont understand all this paranoia when leon basically claimed scum

[Wisdom]

im not concerned

[Wisdom]

how?

[Wisdom]

leon wont cop anyone for us now because he claimed scum
and we'll lynch farside

[Wisdom]

i thought this game had a higher skill level

but no, i have to sit through claimed scum spewing bullshit and people entertaining them

[Wisdom]

^
why is this still alive

[Wisdom]

peregrine, he did shoot shaddow

[Wisdom]

So then Leon is pretty much as claimed.

nope. Hes most likely a lyncher, but on town flavor. Killing shaddow was a must for him, we'd lynch him if he didnt.

[Wisdom]

thanks

[Wisdom]

i dont see everything else coming from town farside so

[Wisdom]

Nacho, i see you defending farside, defending me, defending yourself to Tammy, and discussing with kagami and infinity about things.

What i dont see you doing is scumhunting. You dont seem to care at all about finding the remaining scum.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: cakez

[Wisdom]

and what are you doing about that?

[Wisdom]

You are not pushing cakez and you are not pushing peregrine. Do you find skating by without doing either of these things effective or useful?

[Wisdom]

Im currently thinking nacho/cakez if anyone was wondering

Cakez's nacho tunnel, while it feels fake, it also lacks any conviction to get it through

[Wisdom]

Either it's Nacho/Cakez or Leon is Xykon and it's Leon/Cakez or Leon/Nacho (former more likely)

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom

- Why did you shoot Bulba again? I was looking through and he was a townread in most all your posts.

Long answer: 1504

Short answer: His read was starting to feel fake and his talking about me manipulative as I had already indicated in posts like 562 and his 730 was more of the same - plus the fact I can't read or deal with Bulba so removing him from the game helps me even if he isn't scum.

[Wisdom]

I saw from wisdom he could daykill and if he kills town it requires one less vote to lynch him (hated). is that the entirety of it? does hated modifier stick for rest of game or was it just d1

rest of the game