Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[farside22]

Outside looking in.

Vote: infinity

[farside22]

Oh joy I'm being discussed.
It always feels like someone who talks about you without addressing you is a peeve I've had. Trying to step in bugs me too.

That's just me ranting a bit.

Now that I got that out of my system my vote on Infinity is serious.
I don't see why my vote should bother him or being questioned. He knows I've been a type to not to conform.
Wraith is another scum read I have currently.

The paranoid person in me is scared that I'm town read kagami. It's mostly hypothetically paranoia so I'm just noting it for now.

[farside22]

Oh joy I'm being discussed.
It always feels like someone who talks about you without addressing you is a peeve I've had. Trying to step in bugs me too.

That's just me ranting a bit.

What are you referring to re: this?
Are you talking about Kagami/Infinity discussion about your vote?

Yes.

Oh joy I'm being discussed.
It always feels like someone who talks about you without addressing you is a peeve I've had. Trying to step in bugs me too.

That's just me ranting a bit.

Now that I got that out of my system my vote on Infinity is serious.
I don't see why my vote should bother him or being questioned. He knows I've been a type to not to conform.
Wraith is another scum read I have currently.

The paranoid person in me is scared that I'm town read kagami. It's mostly hypothetically paranoia so I'm just noting it for now.

Farside seems annoyed and ranty.

Farside seems annoyed and ranty.

do you mean to imply something about her alignment with this, or?

No, just talking about her without addressing her, yet.

Peregrine is town.
Lurk away if you want.

Kraska moved up into scum read category.

[farside22]

Infinity 324 (1) - farside22
PeregrineV (1) - shaddowez
Nachomamma8 (3) - Kagami, Wisdom, Tammy
kraska77 (1) - Leonshade
Wisdom (2) - SirCakez, Wraith
SirCakez (1) - PeregrineV
Wraith (1) - Infinity 324

farfar what do u think of kagami
shaddow, kagami, wisdom, tammy hey guys who are u reading as scum
leonshade hey bud explain that weird vote
pere why are u still voting cakeman
inifinity why are you voting wraith?
bulbzak show up pls

I'm going to say kagami town and if he's scum give her an award.
Shadow is null, Wisdom reads town.

Shadow's opening post looks motivated by "being safe." The initial part of his rule-of-three 147 is reasonable, but I don't like the wisdom bit and the final part also feels limp-wristed to me, as if the point were to mention an buddy in a negative light.

I also think the townreads on infinity aren't terribly well justified, and am suspicious that three players have it. I would guess that exactly one infinity-defender is scum regardless of his alignment.

I'm betting money it's kraska.
My wraith scum read just increased 10 fold.

Vote: wraith

[farside22]

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

I agree, but then I don't remember him being so shallow as scum, so let's see what else he'll post

He is very shallow with reads as scum.

Why are you scumreading kraska?

Her push looks manufacturer. I don't see the town read on Infinity or the scum read on you ad valid. Some of it is playstyle, although her comment about me gives me slight pause.
Very slight.

Scum reads wraith<cakez <infinity <kraska

Null on shadow.

[farside22]

which push looks manufactured?

i really dislike kagami's interaction with infinity

Here's a spoiler on my fill in the blanks, infinity:

One likely reason for town-farside's vote is that she agrees with wisdom. The other reasons are uninteresting and generally in line with the "not wanting to take nacho to L-2" thought, though I don't think she'd vote you in particular if that were the case.

For scum-farside, the reason is once again Wisdom's earlier statement. She'd feel that there's a real possibility the wagon has legs and be happy to be on early, especially when there's not a real need to justify it. I find your reasoning to be fairly shallow and unlikely. I see no attempt to "appear to be doing something."

this is kind of a cringe post
the probing stopped being about understanding infinity's thought process, and became about kagami flexing town muscles. also theres a coaching tone to this post that really rubs me the wrong way, kagami later says that she's not reding infinity one way or the other, and i feel if that really were true, the interaction wouldnt have come to its conclusion in the form of the post above. also i just dont like that kagami is using her own interpretation of farsides motivations as a benchmark to compare infinity's against, rather than read infinity's motivations for what they are

@wisdom i dont know why you keep making it sound like the two things are mutually exclusive when he just said that one followed from the other
also ur explanations dont really redeem ur townread reasoning from being strange so i dont know what u expect him to comment oon exactly

The first post from kraska reads like a stretch and a bit of buddying towards me rubs me wrong.
Her defense of Infinity and attack on you I don't see how she comes to this conclusion.

[farside22]

My wraith scum read just increased 10 fold.

what in particular tipped the scales for you?

Specific stuff I don't like about Infinity so far:

I had a woohoo woowee I'm town post planned, but I rolled scum

that's what you really meant, admit it

Why no vote?

This really rubs me the wrong way. It's a pretty obvious joke literally less than 10 posts into the game but he's jumping on it like it's scummy.

I liked him town-lean early for posts 25, 28, and 39, but so far that's kind of it.

Ha! I thought it had something to do with the numbers.

Tammy - Understanding P5's humor since 2016. Go me!

Infinity - Did you just vote nacho because there was a wagon started on him already?

Yes

This rubs me wrong too.

You're entitled to your opinion. Since I don't think farside's vote was particularly scummy, I'm not going to bother to argue it.

He says this, but previously had like five posts questioning the motives of farside's vote. ???

His vote on me without explaining why is odd but could easily just be looking to get a reaction out of me. I guess it worked a different way because it drew a lot of reactions from other players.

I might shift my vote in a minute. About to re-read Wisdom's ISO to see if I'm remembering things right in my evaluation of him.

He was town reading Infinity prior to this post.

[farside22]

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

Are you even reading my posts?

I didn't read your last big post. I did read your case and the lots of quotes reminded me of biker wars.

I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

No he wasn't @farside

Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.

Would like other answers about whether cakez is this shallow as scum vs. town

@cakez What do you think about wisdom's response that he changed playstyle because he felt like it? Do you think that's unlikely?

I don't know who scum is, but that's ok I guess. This game I'll try a more patient approach and not judge anyone until I have a solid read on them.

Town lean is in that sentence. And he didn't explain the issues.
Speaking of which, why did you vote him in the first place?

[farside22]

Cakez: why the focus only on Wisdom? Do you think I'm playing my typical way?

[farside22]

Also I can't believe that wraith doesn't have more votes.

[farside22]

VOTE: cakez

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

I think town would be approaching it differently.

This is scum posting. ^

cakes' case is very shallow

Agreed.

Are you even reading my posts?

I didn't read your last big post. I did read your case and the lots of quotes reminded me of biker wars.

I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

No he wasn't @farside

Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.

Would like other answers about whether cakez is this shallow as scum vs. town

@cakez What do you think about wisdom's response that he changed playstyle because he felt like it? Do you think that's unlikely?

I don't know who scum is, but that's ok I guess. This game I'll try a more patient approach and not judge anyone until I have a solid read on them.

Town lean is in that sentence. And he didn't explain the issues.
Speaking of which, why did you vote him in the first place?

Yeah I don't like this one. I clearly explained why my read had changed.

Let's review the important thing.
First you say you had a town lean in the begining.

it could still mean that he doesnt find your reasoning convincing enough to think that was a genuine progression
idk wraith come explain that post of urs pls

pedit: wahat

This

I liked Infinity for

town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

I like Kraska for town but find her scumread on Kagami strange.

Kagami still strongest townread.

PeregrineV townread.

Biggest scum leans are farside and Wisdom but they aren't particularly strong at this point.

However if anyone actually reads wraith issues with infinty it starts with post number 10 in the game.
So exactly what was earlier that read town and why not mention issues till way later after others already said something?

Specific stuff I don't like about Infinity so far:

I had a woohoo woowee I'm town post planned, but I rolled scum

that's what you really meant, admit it

Why no vote?

This really rubs me the wrong way. It's a pretty obvious joke literally less than 10 posts into the game but he's jumping on it like it's scummy.

I liked him town-lean early for posts 25, 28, and 39, but so far that's kind of it.

Ha! I thought it had something to do with the numbers.

Tammy - Understanding P5's humor since 2016. Go me!

Infinity - Did you just vote nacho because there was a wagon started on him already?

Yes

This rubs me wrong too.

You're entitled to your opinion. Since I don't think farside's vote was particularly scummy, I'm not going to bother to argue it.

He says this, but previously had like five posts questioning the motives of farside's vote. ???

His vote on me without explaining why is odd but could easily just be looking to get a reaction out of me. I guess it worked a different way because it drew a lot of reactions from other players.

I might shift my vote in a minute. About to re-read Wisdom's ISO to see if I'm remembering things right in my evaluation of him.

[farside22]

And I'm sure I'll get shit for this but I feel comfortable calling wraith and Infinity scum and would vote for either.
I noted 2 times Infinity stated issues with wraith but stayed mostly away from voting him and finding his vote onto others instead for rather weak reason's.
Also crazy enough I'm scum reading bulba.
Cakez moved to null.

[farside22]

And I'm sure I'll get shit for this but I feel comfortable calling wraith and Infinity scum and would vote for either.
I noted 2 times Infinity stated issues with wraith but stayed mostly away from voting him and finding his vote onto others instead for rather weak reason's.
Also crazy enough I'm scum reading bulba.
Cakez moved to null.

I had issues with wraith, yes.

They mainly had to do with him not scumhunting. Whatever you want to say about him, he's scumhunting now.

I don't particularly like his posts, but I don't think they're scummy

That is not scum hunting and you know better.

Aaawwwww I love you to bulba.

In all seriousness I missed where you think wraith is scummy.
Nope I'm wrong, you just voted shaddow for no reason and commented about wraith scumminess.
Yup that's classic scum.

[farside22]

Sorry farside you're just wrong here. I'm allowed to have an opinion that's different from yours, and you're pretending like you're seen my towngame to be able to judge what I would think? I think wraith is attempting to scumhunt now. I don't think he was before. I think his current play would be unusual coming from scum and rather sloppy for scum play. I think it would be similarly odd coming from town which is why he's null. I'm sitting here having that opinion about wraith's play, and you're sitting here saying that I couldn't possibly have that opinion. So you do you I guess, but it's kind of difficult to work with you when you're in this tunnel state.

Also I never voted shaddow so ???

• Again I immediately have a problem with Infinity’s nitpicking re: Wisdom early. I ignored it the first time but every time I re-read it I like it less
• Like I said #221, Infinity in #51 acts strangely when he claims he doesn’t think farside’s vote on him is scummy and won’t argue about it when he spent much of the second page arguing about it

Ok, so you say things you dislike about me, then I respond to them in 227, then you state them again without addressing my responses

while referencing the post my responses are in.

This shit pisses me off.

• Still don’t like that Infinity admits he put his RVS on Nacho because there was an RVS wagon forming there

Why?

And why am I null instead of a scumread when you said multiple times you think I'm scummy?

• I have a pretty strong early townread on Nacho and that hasn’t changed
• Posts like Nacho’s #98 are posts I especially like, because they’re posts that follow the same line of thinking as me, and since I’m town, and tend to assume people who following the same lines of thinking as town!me are also town. That may seem strange regarding this particular post, since it’s criticizing one of my own posts, but in hindsight I do see how dumb that particular post of mine was and I’ve come to the same conclusion
• Yeah, I should’ve waited for SirCakez to make his own case re: his vote on Wisdom in #120. I was overeager to find something to get a scumread on (I really hate D1 and RVS) and as a result I think I blew an opportunity to get a more accurate early gauge on SirCakez. And again this ties into my strong townread on Nacho because he calls me out on it in #143
• Again Nacho #229 saying what I’m thinking

So much appeasing and buddying

Seriously, you do this shit and call me out for buddying when I say I have townvibes from you?

As much as I dislike about this wraith post, the fake-feeling appeasing and buddying of nacho is the only thing that's scummy. But that's worth a vote

VOTE: wraith

That's some quick turn around there.

VOTE: infintyVOTE:

I submit anyone to read a current game I played with infinity called poker mafia.
This is 100% his scum game.
He even saw me make association that game like crazy.

[farside22]

VOTE: infinity

[farside22]

By the way farside, I would love it if you actually engaged with me or with people who townread me...tunneling on someone without considering their town motivation and without engaging with them is just shitty play, I'm sorry.

Pot this is kettle.
How are you doing?
You aren't really engaging me but I noted you threw shade pretty fast.

If someone wants to meta me, they can ask me for links and do it properly. I would never play like this as scum, and I didn't even play like this in poker mafia.

No shit it's a quick turnaround, it's page 19 and I don't have any strong scumreads. If someone does something scummy I'll vote.

And forgive me if I don't remember the specifics of a game that ended months ago.

It might do you some good to consider town motivation

Would you like a review of what poker mafia had?
You defending mm, who was town.
Me making pre-flip associations.

Tell me how you go from wraith looking like he is scum hunting to voting for him?

[farside22]

I don't need to engage with you. You're the one calling me scum. It's your responsibility to engage with me and ask questions and figure out if your scumread is correct.

Your implication that my "defense" of wraith in this game is similar to my defense of mm in poker mafia is laughable. I defend town and sometimes scum as both alignments. And as I said before, I can't be fucked to remember your specific actions from a game that ended months ago. You seem to take a large amount of issue with me asking a question with respect to that for some reason.

Great, we have a question! Although, if you looked at the post where I voted, it would answer your question completely. When I'm null on someone before, and they do something scummy, well then they might just turn into a scumread.

Let's take this one step at a time.

1) I don't know players to go hmmm does x do something like this typically without it meaning there is some suspicion of the player for doing it and not just being curious.
2) you went from voting wraith, without a reason, to unvoting him and voting someone esle. Then when called out about this by me, you vote for the dude again.
Tell me how I should say that looks fucking natural?
3) if I have to search your meta to find out how well you actual remember players actions I will.
That's my only warning.

For now.

VOTE: wraith

[farside22]

If someone wants to meta me, they can ask me for links and do it properly. I would never play like this as scum, and I didn't even play like this in poker mafia.

No shit it's a quick turnaround, it's page 19 and I don't have any strong scumreads. If someone does something scummy I'll vote.

And forgive me if I don't remember the specifics of a game that ended months ago.

It might do you some good to consider town motivation

Would you like a review of what poker mafia had?
You defending mm, who was town.
Me making pre-flip associations.

Tell me how you go from wraith looking like he is scum hunting to voting for him?

How is defending someone a particular quality of one's scum game only?

Do you always remember how town plays when you've played against them as scum? Or how they play in general? And why is Infinity asking if you make pre-flip associations a trait of him being scum?

In general, I think the arguments that someone turned around their read too quickly are pretty silly. Even if I'm leaning town on someone and they make a post that makes me question that, I'm not going to hold on to a read I had even if it's made 30 seconds before.

What does Infinity gain by making such a quick turnaround as scum?

Well hello miss fluff questions.
I'm going to call you scum for these fluffy questions since 3 of them are logical, which I know you are a very logical person.
2 give you nothing towards my alignment.
But to humor you here is a response.
1) I've played with infinity a few times. Town read defense, yes, null read defense, no.
That makes no sense, if it does to you tell me why?
2) recent games absolutely. A game months ago, more likely then not, a year ago, no.
3) infinity played with me before. I saw the question as fake.

[farside22]

Cakez: I didnt forget about you.
My scum read on bulba is hard to explain because some of it is gut and impressions I get when I read his post.

Example his his dump of thoughts here say very little about shadow.
He gave a point about issues with wisdom, reads fillerish and wraith fluff question.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Wraith/shadow/Leon is my first attempt at a guess

Was there something specific dropped by Lion-O? Because I just have him as null.

VOTE: cakez

Maybe I'm colored by my frustration but this is shitty.

He just refuses to consider town motivation for changing meta and also refuses to consider the disadvantages of playing so obviously differently as scum when multiple people in the game have played with him before.

I think town would be approaching it differently.

I can see where you're coming from here, but I fully agree with Cakez. An agreeable Wisdom definitely set off some red flags. His later play reminded me of my first game with him, though, but that's an anomaly when it comes to town Wisdom. Having been burnt by friendly Wisdom before, I fully understand the uneasy approach.

Alrighty then...

@Nacho: Give me your thoughts on Wisdom when you can. I'm not sure if I'm looking at 1305 Wisdom here, or if this is the amicable scum Wisdom I've been seeing a lot lately. I'm not sure how much I'm going to be around over the next few days, but I'll try to do my best with anything else you want to talk about.

@Wraith: Why'd you stop with the Mr. Fluffy talk? I found it strange in general, but I found you stopping to be kinda abrupt.

Vote Shaddowez

I could go Wraith too, but I'm not sure it's as good a vote.

Mr Scruffy says "It was time to get serious."

Why couldn't you do that while speaking for your cat?

@Wisdom: Where'd the switch from Wraith to Shadow come from?

I see a bit of buddying when a player agrees with another. He also hasn't a dress Wisdom directly or pushed Wisdom other then using buzz words like red flag and feeling.
I also dont get the issue from wis switch to wraith when bulba was scum reading wraith too.
So unless bulba thinks Wisdom is ultimate bussed man the scum read and concern about Wisdom looks manufactured.

[farside22]

I don't see how any of these are fluff questions...........

Ill ask you questions that already have been explained in the game.
Sound good?

[farside22]

Must...resist...continuing...dumb...argument

That super nice of you.

[farside22]

If someone wants to meta me, they can ask me for links and do it properly. I would never play like this as scum, and I didn't even play like this in poker mafia.

No shit it's a quick turnaround, it's page 19 and I don't have any strong scumreads. If someone does something scummy I'll vote.

And forgive me if I don't remember the specifics of a game that ended months ago.

It might do you some good to consider town motivation

Would you like a review of what poker mafia had?
You defending mm, who was town.
Me making pre-flip associations.

Tell me how you go from wraith looking like he is scum hunting to voting for him?

How is defending someone a particular quality of one's scum game only?

Do you always remember how town plays when you've played against them as scum? Or how they play in general? And why is Infinity asking if you make pre-flip associations a trait of him being scum?

In general, I think the arguments that someone turned around their read too quickly are pretty silly. Even if I'm leaning town on someone and they make a post that makes me question that, I'm not going to hold on to a read I had even if it's made 30 seconds before.

What does Infinity gain by making such a quick turnaround as scum?

Well hello miss fluff questions.
I'm going to call you scum for these fluffy questions since 3 of them are logical, which I know you are a very logical person.
2 give you nothing towards my alignment.
But to humor you here is a response.
1) I've played with infinity a few times. Town read defense, yes, null read defense, no.
That makes no sense, if it does to you tell me why?
2) recent games absolutely. A game months ago, more likely then not, a year ago, no.
3) infinity played with me before. I saw the question as fake.

Did you suck on a lemon before you started posting.

And feel free calling me miss fluff, but make sure you get it right as its miss town fluff, and I'll call you ms posturey because you feel like you're posturing to me.

You're citing one scum and going aha you defended someone there, you're defending someone here, see the resemblance cause I do.

I don't think that is a conclusion you actually hold or think is valid. If there is some resemblance feel free to explain why.

See the thing is when I'm scum, I don't remember every detail about how they play, and when I haven't played a lot I don't remember. Some people I don't even remember playing with or very little about them.

I don't think that expecting a player to remember a small detail about their play is valid, and I'm surprised you do.

When it comes to how I play and spam the game, it's not a small detail.
Also fasinating enough there is a thing called a search function, where you can read a players meta for yo7rself.
Did you know that?
Did you ask or look to see if this is typical of inifinity or myself or did you decide to come in and just post things that make you look active?
Because that's how your questions appear.
For a p9int of refernce that doesn't include Infinity scum game, we played princess bride mafia and he didn't call a player scummy and the defend them in that game if it helps.
So since you feel he is right, why don't you explain why you think town would be calling a player scummy, yet defend them when a wagon appears?

[farside22]

Damn my small phone keyboard

[farside22]

Yeah I need to step back I'm a bit pissy with infinity and it's coming across in all my post.

[farside22]

First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.

Although I did want the question of what infinity gains by making such a quick turn around as scum answered to.

When I saw infinity swap from first thought was shit, is wraith being quick lynched by scum? Then I wondered if infinity maybe bussing after I didn't get a response about why he was defending wraith.

Infinity: If you explained your reason for defending wraith other then his one post you said looked like he was scum hunting I would like to see that please.


Anyways my scum list look like this:

Wraith < Infinity < Bulba < Leon (weird reason why he is in here)

[farside22]

Nacho - Not sure what to think about Infinity yet. I don't thing the early town reads due to him continuing on his "tryhard" style in the face of being called out by wisdom all that strong when he didn't even realize he was being called out. There are a few posts that I like. I like him being like I'm playing shitty right now because I haven't slept and it's day one where I struggle because I empathize with that type of sentiment. I don't know if you read the maze prerestart, but early game infinity scum was tryhardy and a bit nitpicky. He did interact and distance with his partner quite a bit, and then he jumped off of his partner to scum read me mostly because my opening post was forced. Anyway our interaction felt a little odd, and I felt like he had an agenda. It wasn't even close to conclusive and I'm bummed we restarted because now I don't know if I'd have gotten that read right. But this is a lot of words to say some of his posts don't give me that same feel. From that game I do think he has a bit of a nitpicky type of scum game (maybe?) and I don't get the sense that he'd change his approach just because someone mentioned it, especially when he just didn't notice it. Some of his posts feel sticky, but then some feel fluid and I like those.

This is probably my same read; I think there are a lot of nitpicky posts/posts I disagree with/posts that bother me but a lot of the posts he makes on how he feels on gamestate and a lot of the point he makes as an aside looks town and those aren't posts that he's been making as scum. I also like the way that he kind of feels like he's lost, like he's pushing a lot of different angles and backing down from them pretty easily; I'd his scum play to be more straightforward as in laying down a plan and following it, especially based on his responses about farside looking town because her initial push was "too sloppy" or Wisdom's response being town because he "could have given a better response if scum".

Here is my take away on infinity.
He got caught with the try hard, he went a different way.
He got caught with his weak read and now is scrabbling.

Kraska is most likely just town. I also think that Nacho and I are finally town together again (RIGHT NOW :p). Other town reads on Pere and Kagami. (I do feel weird with such a decent town read on Pere so early. Sometimes day one I lean town, but don't feel this decent. The last time I did, he was an SK so every time I get a good read on Pere early I think he might be an SK and it freaks me out, but I don't think there's an SK this game, so I just think I have a weird early decent town read on Pere.)

I was going to mention that I was starting get get paranoid on him because he hasn't been around until I remember that he said he wouldn't be around on weekends >.>

I agree that kraska feels town but I still would like for her to flesh out what she was thinking about Kagami a little more and starts pushing for things a little more aggressively; she's definitely capable of it (as I've found while looking over games that Giga linked to me) while as scum she's definitely more likely to keep her head in the sand for a while.

The one ticking point i have against Kraska is that I only know of what scum read she has and she seems to being doing little else.

Anyways my scum list look like this:

Wraith < Infinity < Bulba < Leon (weird reason why he is in here)

how do you feel about shaddow?

if you replaced infinity with him we'd agree.

This is when you have a pre-association moment and go, farside you need to seek help.
If bulba is scum I don't see him voting his scum buddy and standing on that as the first vote. If you look at the post from Bulba he hasn't even really pushed his scum read on anyone but you.

For me to drop infinity off my list I need him to explain his views from start of the game about wraith to this point currently and what his scum reads are in full.

[farside22]

First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.

Ok, I'm glad you're willing to act differently. I'm sorry for insulting your play, I hope we can have more productive discussions in the future.

Infinity: If you explained your reason for defending wraith other then his one post you said looked like he was scum hunting I would like to see that please.

Here's where I was defending wraith:

I liked Infinity for town-lean early but as time goes on I like him less.

No he wasn't @farside

Not sure I like the wraith wagon. The wisdom vote was weird but very sloppy for scum play.

Yes, "town lean" is in the sentence "I like

d

infinity for town-lean". I don't see how that's relevant. And then he pointed out the stuff in his next post, which was 3 posts later I believe. I don't see the issue.

I voted him because...he commented on a bunch of stuff without trying to scumhunt, but his latest post made me feel a little better in that regard.

But I'm not saying he's town and a wagon on him is as good as any (except maybe cakez). So *shrug*

At first i was just trying to correct a misconception. I also said I wasn't sure I liked the wagon, but ok I'll admit that statement wasn't really necessary for a null read.

The next post I continued to try to correct the misconception, and also disclaimed that my intent wasn't to convince you that he's town. I just wanted to make sure you got your facts right. Does that explain that?

Okay I see where things went awry.
As I stated prior he said he had an issue with your post 10 which reads as a contradiction to saying he had a young lean early. I think prior to that you made maybe 2 other post. Which is just RVS stuff.
As for cakez.....idk. the meta stuff on Wisdom is meh to me, mostly because he's not saying where this matches scum Wisdom.
I don't recall Wisdom being super aggressive at the start in Walking dead mafia, so it's kind of where I disagree with cakez view on wisdom's playstyle

[farside22]

Cakez: why is Wisdom's lack of aggression bothering you?
You were in Walking dead mafia and mollie and I discussed that issue, you said nothing about it but it bothers you this game.

[farside22]

First off I'm sorry about my attitude.
I was told about it in my last game and I was trying hard not to repeat it this game but a few attitudes got to me and I started feeling that anger I get towards people that is probably not fair.
Don't know why it hits me some times. I think I take things a bit too personal from people. If I knew a way to get that under control.........
Anyways I will try to tone down and if I need a slap occasional that says farside you need to step back, then please say so.

Although I did want the question of what infinity gains by making such a quick turn around as scum answered to.

When I saw infinity swap from first thought was shit, is wraith being quick lynched by scum? Then I wondered if infinity maybe bussing after I didn't get a response about why he was defending wraith.

I apologize for a snap reaction too.

Yeah see this is about what I was wondering about when I wanted to know what he would gain from the quick turn around. In the case of Infinity!scum wraith!town, Infinity probably had more to gain by defending him a bit. He doesn't really need to blend in and he didn't over whiteknight him or anything.

In the case of Infinity!scum/Wraith!scum, infinity might have tried to go on the defend route at first, but then after he got a bunch of scum reads decided that it would look better for him if he bussed. But in that case it feels so sloppily done. But this is probably one of the few instances where I think the fast turn around could be suspicious.

That's a fair point.
I think Infinity thought dump in regards to the situation with wraith was well put. Maybe I'm being weird about the difference between town lean and calling a player town. I don't really see the difference in that regard but that's just nitpicky feeling.

[farside22]

Yeah my Leon scum read increased.
Tammy: I was in mafiaception too, maybe it's me but Bulbazak paranoia just reads fake.

[farside22]

That replacement reads as welp I screwed up and taking my ball and leaving attitude.

Grumbles.
Sigh

I hope I die night 1.

VOTE: leon

[farside22]

GreyICE replaces Wraith. Please join me in offering a hearty Adventurer's Welcome to him!

[farside22]

cool beans

I just want to call this Leon/Infinity/Grey and bank it but its never that easy, is it

I'm actually disagreeing with infinity scum.
Yes I know this changed. He could be paranoid about the how the wagon switched over.
Although the bitch in me looks at him with a dirty look for switching his read quickly on wraith.

Infinity: would you like the run down on why leon reads scummy?

[farside22]

I'm caught up but too busy for a big post.

VOTE: grey

FTR I think leon is a sk but that's just based on some of the typical things like the bp and vig shot claim part.

[farside22]

Still happy with my vote on greyice.

I've started a scum read on peregrine but it's a bit weird why I feel the way I do.
I'm highly doubtful moi would place a Lyncher that can also shot as a role.

Hi cakez: what are your current reads?

[farside22]

Cakez: why kraska?

[farside22]

I said I would be here today, but I have the worst headache. I should have some time tomorrow to catch up.

Ill trade you my hip pain for your headache.

[farside22]

That wasn't the hammer.

[farside22]

And if grey is scum here, he didn't tunnel you to generate paranoia. No one can delude themselves into thinking they can make people paranoid by dumbtunneling a near-universal townread. If grey is scum, he did it to avoid scumhunting and hopefully get townreads by going against the flow.

Pretty sure greyice meta makes this NAI.

[farside22]

Just a note I have that nacho is worth looking at regardless of greyice flip

[farside22]

Leon do you know if you were shot?

[farside22]

VOTE: wisdom

[farside22]

I love narrative stories by the way.

[farside22]

Shadowez/nacho/kraska with Leon as some sort of 3P
ggez?

You think 3 kill roles in a game is balanced?
I kept thinking about it and it really doesn't.

I agree with nacho.

[farside22]

Plus only one kill start of day 2

[farside22]

Crazy as this sounds I don't think kraska is scum.

VOTE: nacho

[farside22]

Also my poe is down to kagami or Pere as scum too.

[farside22]

Shadowez/nacho/kraska with Leon as some sort of 3P
ggez?

You think 3 kill roles in a game is balanced?
I kept thinking about it and it really doesn't.

I agree with nacho.

Well one would be controlled by scum and the other two were both very limited according to how they were claimed (and I believe both)
So yes I do

So you believe Leons 3p claim, and think Tammy is town
But you still vote nacho, who you claim to have as scum "By poe", over wisdom who you just called scum

WTF?
I'm obviously calling Leon the scum there and both of the other two vig claimers town.

kraska youre the third arent you?

Cakez was obviously not calling me scum

Yep!

Also my poe is down to kagami or Pere as scum too.

Kagami is pretty obviously not scum, Pere less so
Why don't you think kraska is scum?

I'm seeing buddying from kagami that are setting my sensors off.
All Pere has done this game is make a few questions and added nothing more.
He's better then that as town.

I don't know how much you remember blood wars but from what I notice is kraska seems to go against others views and see things differently, that's not scummy.
Plus I can't imagine someone not concerned with only 1 death on n1 with 2 other claims, one which did it day 1.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

I doubt two scummos jumped on you with such silly reasoning, wisdom.

My current frontrunners are actually Shadow and Leon. I'm surprised by the diversity.

Shadow's opening post looks motivated by "being safe." The initial part of his rule-of-three 147 is reasonable, but I don't like the wisdom bit and the final part also feels limp-wristed to me, as if the point were to mention an buddy in a negative light.

I also think the townreads on infinity aren't terribly well justified, and am suspicious that three players have it. I would guess that exactly one infinity-defender is scum regardless of his alignment.

VOTE: shadow

VOTE: wraith

Right, I forgot my wagon started after that post.

But you also expressed a scumread on me in 202, what was your reason for scumreading me then?

Iirc, shadow->you interaction and probably something else that I could only generate through revisionism.

If we are talking about whom talked about shadow and did nothing about it other then a weak push, I present kagami post above.

Scum know who each other are, I expect them lately to name there scum buddy and barely push day 1.

[farside22]

Town - farside, kraska, PV
Leantown - Tammy, Wisdom, Infinity, Nacho
Leanscum - Cakez, Kagami, Leon
Scum - Bulba, Wraith

(Details to come probably tomorrow, Mondays and meetings suck)

Also the list is a good indicator that 1 scum buddy is in the leaning scum list and I'm pretty certain cakez is town.

[farside22]

If you say so.
You will have to explain better

[farside22]

Town - farside, kraska, PV
Leantown - Tammy, Wisdom, Infinity, Nacho
Leanscum - Cakez, Kagami, Leon
Scum - Bulba, Wraith

(Details to come probably tomorrow, Mondays and meetings suck)

Also the list is a good indicator that 1 scum buddy is in the leaning scum list and I'm pretty certain cakez is town.

why are you pretty certain cakes is town?
also i think shadow put his buddies in different categories

Would you say his play reminds you of blood wars?
If you have a good reason to scum read him I'll read it.
But so far he is doing a lot more figuring things out here.

[farside22]

Weird theory moment.
Do you think scum would shot one of there own for town points?

Leon role just seems OP as hell and I'm keeping that as a reason never to town read or follow the dude.

[farside22]

I don't know I've never seen that happen before.....
But then I haven't been here long

Never saw but I heard it happened before.
I know one game I was scum there was talk about doing it.

not impossible

Id lynch leon today too

I'm good with nacho lynch. I feel more confident he is scum. Just reading his iso is all about appeasement and less about scum hunting.
More buddying, then fierceness.
That's why kagami is on my scum list too.

[farside22]

Weird theory moment.
Do you think scum would shot one of there own for town points?

Leon role just seems OP as hell and I'm keeping that as a reason never to town read or follow the dude.

This doesn't make sense because leon is highly suspected as an SK

It's more likely he's just SK

I'm just bothered that there was only 1 person dead day 2.
Either Wisdom is scum because he used a kill during the day (scum don't get a day kill and night kill typically).
I find that unlikely
Scum was blocked or a player targetted was protected by a doc.
2 players claimed bp so far so again I have issue with this.
Scum killed one of there own.

I know you haven't been around as long but what do you think is likely?

[farside22]

I don't have much time as I'm heading out the door, but I'll be back later.

Anyway I hated that hammer with the fire of a thousand suns. Kagami is probably town unfortunately, but the hammer was fucking stupid. I expect that kind of shit when I play with katsuki but not kagami. I have absolutely no idea why it was necessary to end the day when we had plenty of tine, people were still in the midst of talking and gathering information. I don't care that you're impatient, go knit some socks or something.

Also I'm suspicious of wisdoms bullshit ass angle that greyice gave up because there was nobody else he could push. He pushed bulba town and was now left with nothing. BULKSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT. Greyice doesn't go welp gee golly nothing I can do cuz I'm too scurred to push town.

I don't know why people have a town read on cakes, so I'd love it if someone explained it to me. Preferably something better than he's town.

Not sure on nacho, and I'd like for him to talk a bit more about his problems with Leon's claim.

Kraska is still probably town.

I feel opposite about kagami hammer and Wisdom post towards grey.

[farside22]

Not sure this is needed with the holidays

limited access/ vacation until Saturday

[farside22]

Trying to catch up while I can.

A few notes is I don't get nacho points.
Reads like a lot of AtE.

VOTE: kagami

I think this is best actually. Coasting off townreads is bad, interactions with shadow are meh, and there's the counterwagoning. Plus the part where he (she?) and kraska scumread each other and never voted each other. I've decided that's likely SvT, so kraska can be town based off that.

Nacho by interactions and play is scummy but wisdom by setup spec is scummy and I think one is scum because their back-and-forth feels too distant to be TvT.

Who thinks scum is outside {nacho, kraska, kagami, wisdom}?

I'd still add peregrine to the list.
Mine is more
Scum:nacho/kagami
Less sure: peregrine, Leon kraska

Tammy has made me a little worried though. I was expecting her to share my opinion about Nacho and not make a big deal out of my stabbing

Why?

I'd prefer kagami

Really dislike this nacho lynch. Is there any good reason why nacho goes before cakes and Pere?

Leon should still cop cakes...imo

What is your case on cakez?

Nacho's wisdom push reeks of desperate scum

Agreed.

Stopped on page 56

[farside22]

I'm also concerned about farside.

Okay.

I'm also concerned about farside.

You're the first one to say this I believe. Why? I'm intrigued because I townread a lot of people and not her.

I'm not sure I can put my finger on it. I think I dismissed my concerns yesterday that she just didn't feel right in part because I was concerned about shadow and everyone is calling her town.

But as I think about the game, if my concerns about cakez and wisdom are wrong then I can't ignore my concerns on farside.

I'd appreciate more then just poe.

hmm
I ISO'd farside and I realize I like her less than I thought.
Mainly because she never mentioned shaddow. Even when I asked her about him in 565.

Shadow lurked a lot. There was votes on him from his first post that said next to nothing.

One thing I disliked was that farside expressed a scumread on both Infinity and Bulba for their "bad/manufactured" push on me, but said absolutely nothing to Cakez for doing the same (and Cakez's was arguably way more shallow)

In general I don't like their interactions.

I saw bulba following cakez push on you.
It looked like he was buddying cakez.
I thought infinity was scum at the start.

and then farside also votes Leon without saying a thing about shaddow

makes sense, she wants to quickly lynch Leon before we decide to go back to shaddow

Still didn't see why players were scum reading him.

Yeah I need to step back I'm a bit pissy with infinity and it's coming across in all my post.

Crazy as this sounds I don't think kraska is scum.

VOTE: nacho

farside please explain what changed here. You were voting me and pushing that all three vigs can't be scum. Why the vote on nacho?

I vote based on who I scum read. Theory about mod Balance isn't enough to keep my vote.

Tell me why you have an associate based on absolutely nothing and changed your view on nacho for literally theory bs?

[farside22]

Oh as for reasons I town read a player it's well know my reasons look terrible by all, which is why I don't explain it.
I'm not sure why meta isn't enough since most of the scum read on nacho is how you know each other and what you expect.
Since I can't refer to ongoing games I'm just giving the one game reference for now.

[farside22]

Tell me why you have an associate based on absolutely nothing and changed your view on nacho for literally theory bs?

"Absolutely nothing" is what you and Cakez have done this game

You've pushed townies for idiotic reasons only to opportunistically jump on popular wagons (Leon yesterday, Nacho today)

As for Cakez, he reluctantly bussed shaddow when he saw everyone was scumreading him and went from deathtunneling on me to hardsheeping me on Nacho. Because that's totally how natural read progression goes.

Excuse me.
I'm trying to find a balance from raging bitch to just scum hunting.
You can accuse me of nothing but not kagami?
Or kraska?
Or peregrine?
That's a lot of looking past others you are doing there.


So if you get me lynched can people please look back at the 180 from Wisdom if nacho is town.
This reads as a slip but I think more like a buss at this point.
I see no reason to have the sudden tantrum switch.

[farside22]

I vote based on who I scum read. Theory about mod Balance isn't enough to keep my vote.

really? Then why did you scumread me at daystart?

It was theory based.
That was pretty clear.

[farside22]

Hold the presses, wisdom backed out of a tunnel!

Need to reread farside and cakez, but so far I don't like farside's reaction to pressure. But my vote stays for now for reasons previously stated.

Also still need to respond to nacho's points on wisdom (I think some of those are worth responding to, wisdom)

That's nice.

You think it's scummy that I reevaluated a tunnel on you and then agreed with a scumread you had?

Yes. I thought and still think it was scummy you even had a tunnel on me in the first place. I can buy you seeing you are wrong and changing your mind, but I cannot buy you deciding to go back to blindly sheeping me just like you do every game. If you had really scumread me you'd be more careful about sheeping me.

This is pretty awful coming from a player who switched reads like candy in Walking dead mafia.

You can go back on my scum list offically.

Tammy: there is blood wars, most recent were I called out arti and sc for buddying others.
Scum aggression with Parama.
Just depends. Sure town can agree with others but bulba was pretty low on the radar for me.

[farside22]

You can accuse me of nothing but not kagami?
Or kraska?
Or peregrine?
That's a lot of looking past others you are doing there.

Why would I accuse them? They've done enough things to earn their townreads.

What have they done that reads town.
No voting for shadow doesn't count.

This reads as a slip but I think more like a buss at this point.

sorry, you're not making sense
what did I slip, or who am I bussing?

You called nacho town.

[farside22]

switching reads isn't scummy, cute misrep

Your calling cakez scum for switching his view.
Tell me how that's a misrep?

[farside22]

I've already said why kraska and Kagami are town; Peregrine has been gut since the beginning

yes, I did, your point?

pedit: No, that's not why I called Cakez scum, you're misrepping.

Talk about weak reason for town reading someone.
And then you give me shit?
You are pretty Hypocritical or scum.
Let me know.

Your question is dumb.

VOTE: wisdom

I officially would do 1v1 with you.
You done exactly what Parama did as scum, which I call lovingly circle jerking.

[farside22]

And no, my question is not dumb, you just can't answer it. Yes, I called Nacho town, how is that a slip or a bus again?

You just spit out words hoping someone buys them.

It's a slip because only scum know who's town.
It could be a buss because you 289 on nacho makes 0 sense.

thanks for making me confident I made the right choice

Yeah that vote on me is so sure.

See here is where I don't give 2 fucks at this point.

You have grey ice that called Wisdom scum, bulba that called Wisdom scum and I have no time to really argue, and yes I'm late to the analogy but I'm confident in my wisdom scum read.
I figure, since I've seen it too much and just too salty to say anything nice, the paranoia has hit this game by some.
So I give you my lynch to sit there and say, hey 3 dead town have said Wisdom is scum, we should lynch him.
If town doesn't do that after I flip town, then I have nothing nice to say to any town left in this game.

With all that said, happy thanksgiving.

I'll be back around maybe Saturday, no promises. I have family in town.

[farside22]

Also to tack on to my farside townread, I think her recent frustration with Wisdom looks very genuine.

Haha

no, farside is being obvious scum now. Her reactions are the same as when I caught her here.

Sorry meta doesn't jive with me because I say things as scum as I say as town.
That pretty factual if you did real meta research.

It's a slip because only scum know who's town.
It could be a buss because you 289 on nacho makes 0 sense.

Sorry, thats nonsense. Ive explained my thought process in detail.

Not even close.
You just dropped nacho scum read based on nothing at all.
Again that's just fact in the game.
Anyone with half a brain can see you grilled macho, didn't like his response and then chased a bs theory, which again is not town Wisdom in the least.

[farside22]

So I was sleeping when my brain reminded me about walking dead mafia with wisdom.
So I have two question for wis.

Also to tack on to my farside townread, I think her recent frustration with Wisdom looks very genuine.

Haha

no, farside is being obvious scum now. Her reactions are the same as when I caught her here.

If he believes this (1) why no vote on me.
(2) in walking dead mafia you said the following

You can't meta with one game, that's bullshit

link to quote
Why are you using one game as meta proff?

[farside22]

Only skimmed through the last few pages, but Wisdom's change of heart seems genuine to me, and I don't like farside's reaction to his pressure. I will evaluate my reads when I have more time.

That's because your skimming.

You should try to read it all and yes I'm a hypocrite on that end because I do the same.

All Wisdom did was switch reads based on nothing from nacho and once others talked about suspicion elsewhere he faked a read.

Also I'll remind you what a dead player said this game, which was bulba: wisdom busses as scum.
So he pushed nacho and Shadow but pushed others above them.
Also he did what infinity did in poker mafia, which is ask a player what they think of scum and then accuse the player of having said read.
It's basically a trap when scum ask the question and then uses said comment later to call that player scum.

Uh ok since no one's voting farside my vote stays

My wisdom scum read is 100% you should sheep it or explain why you disagree.

[farside22]

I've heard before that cakez posts more awkwardly as town: people who've played wth him before, what do you think

Mmmmm idk I didn't see that in Walking dead mafia.
But that game scum buddies and some called him scum.
I had him as a scum read when I replaced and moved to null after I finished my catch up.

[farside22]

Because youre literally the same (and besides i have played like 8 games with you)
And even then i have much stronger reasons than meta for scumreading you that ive already mentioned

And im voting your buddy; i can lynch you in either order

And yet you only mention and link one game.
How fasinating and fake if you.

Actually im not letting it go

Please explain whats wrong with my explanation in 1491 and detail what my scum motivation for passing on the nacho lynch is

I've already said what I thought.
Thank you mister doing meaniless busy work.

It's not hard to follow if he's your scum buddy.
And you are not that dimb.

[farside22]

A few notes I have in catch up.
Don't care about the leon theory moments.
Many sheeping without explaining coming and I feel myself hating this game more because all I see is apparently it's ok to add a vote for shitty reasons but I have to jump through hoops to explain myself more then anyone else does in this game.

I seriously wish someone at the end of this game to explain why that happens because currently it's the last straw for me at this point where I want nothing to to with mafia any more.

That said onto infinity since he had the big post that said a lot more then anyone else.

My town reads are based on a combo of gut/meta and some laziness to not read everything in full. Yes I know that sounds a2ful but imagine having 10 to 15 minutes to read something, if your lucky, without interruptions, to just make a post. Or having to wake up extra early just to get time to make a post and you might get why I do what I do.
I'm being less involved because I'm busy. It's that simple and I can't keep telling people at home to give me 5 min to finish.
As for shadow, I didn't see a viable point against him and I get paranoid when people vote for no reason as it comes more from scum then town. Lurking, placing votes, giving very little to thoughts has typically been something I see from scum.
Lurking, unfortunately has become the norm so for me it's hard to see who is scum or town from lurking and I still yet have a single person explain why shadow was a scum read.
Anyways I stand by my wisdom scum read.
This is more about meta and style then anything. He doesn't just switch reads for no reason.
He doesn't just suddenly stop tunneling unless there is a viable reason.
He's most likely helping his scum buddy but I still not 100% on that because of PeregrineV who's done less then nothing and Kagami who had a shadow scum read but barely pushed that scum read.
I'm Bolding the important part.

bulba, GreyICE and myself have called Wisdom scum if the town doesn't listen to 3 town players they deserve to lose. The fact only one dead player night 1 could be because Wisdom scum killed during the day and that would typically nurf the ability for scum to kill at night

That was why I voted for wisdom at the beginning.
I'm currently voting for him for bring up weak meta, hypothetical scum buddy theory and a 180 on nacho, all things town Wisdom does not do.

[farside22]

Shadow, your question to me was already addressed and answered.

I'm ok with shadow votes. His questions don't seem to be written in an attempt to gamesolve, they're more trying to look busy and defending himself. And to add on to the list of hypocritical things I've said this game, I don't really like shadow taking seriously tammy not moving her vote. To be fair, this time tammy clearly said that it was for fun. It just looks like an attempt to look busy.

Ok I've convinced myself

VOTE: shadow

I'm not a fan of voting someone with 3 posts on page 25, though I will check again what those posts are...

What do you think of this reasoning?

Can you explain your read on cakez throughout the game, including when and why you dropped your scumread on him and what your read on him is now?

So basically you didn't read my large post where I said things in regards to cakez?
Or you don't get it?

[farside22]

As for your frustrations, I think there's some mindmeld going on in this game and you kind of ended up on the outside of that so people may find it harder to understand your reasoning and motivations.

I see players on a different page of how to actual scum read someone.
That's not arrogance just my pov.
Also something to consider if you feel happy with your vote.
You thought gi was reacting bad to the pressure and I'm reacting bad to pressure.
At what point do you consider your wrong about players reaction and taking there scum reads seriously?
I just want to know if there is any point chatting with you about wisdom's being scum or if you just keep your eyes covered like it means nothing?

Farside, do you remember what changed your mind on Kraska?

I have her as null. My read on her changed a bit when she called me out as a tunnel type but she kind of fades in the back ground.
Frankly I don't really see her game solving here but she's like the lowest of my scum reads

[farside22]

ffs my bad
I just looked at his other games and he's definitely posting a LOT more in other games then here....

I'm frustrated that he's not posting here, but this is a bit exaggerative. He's in one other game here and he posted in that one game over the course of an hour or so.

Infinity I wasn't saying he's scum because he didn't catch up, I'm saying he's probably scum because he's just probably scum. He's clearly following along as he wanted Leon to full claim. He could have responded to any other thing as well and he didn't.

Far side what do you think of kraska's role intersection with mine?

Nacho - I feel like you must have felt in three little pigs right now. I think you're scum, but I really don't want you to be and I don't know if I'm partly thinking you're scum because I'm so frustrated waiting for you to talk about someone who is not wisdom. Actually you are also giving me the feeling you gave me at gog too.

It's a neighbor thing with some info known?
Sorry if that's not 100% correct I just recall a few things.
I don't really care to be honest.
If kraska is riding just on that as a reason to be a town read that is pretty weak.
Tell me this do you know who she is scum reading? Do you know why she is scum reading that player?
Do you know why she hasn't pushed for anyone as scum since day 1?
Let me know.

[farside22]

Meh, I guess MoI pretty much confirmed the stabbing flavor in the Bulb death scene.

Alright, ok with calling wisdom town for now.

Would nacho have shot tammy? Maybe.

Farside would have extra special interest in that one.

Meh, you might just be right wis.

No and no.
Wifom means nothing to me.
Flavor means dick and letting Wisdom live into lylo is the worst thing I see in this.
Like if anyone should be copped it should be wis because of how blind players are to him.
Ignoring those players that are dead town are just shameful.

[farside22]

Meh, I guess MoI pretty much confirmed the stabbing flavor in the Bulb death scene.

Alright, ok with calling wisdom town for now.

Would nacho have shot tammy? Maybe.

Farside would have extra special interest in that one.

Meh, you might just be right wis.

No and no.
Wifom means nothing to me.
Flavor means dick and letting Wisdom live into lylo is the worst thing I see in this.
Like if anyone should be copped it should be wis because of how blind players are to him.
Ignoring those players that are dead town are just shameful.

I'm not sure but I think the questions ask was in regards to why nacho is scum. If so I'm already scum reading nacho and if he is scum the kraska would be a solid null.
Wisdom is still my number 1 scum suspect.

[farside22]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

I feel like I'm being pranked this game.
I don't even get what wis point is.

I'm just being stubborn

also I wanna note this is fake
If you were town and you knew you are being stubborn you would stop it and look at things with a clear mind
Instead you just want to be perceived as stubborn town

Yeah the rest of the snip out was more important.
But keep ignoring hark.
I'll just rant at you post game about being blind.

These two posts in particular feel different from farside's reaction in Duck Duck Goose - there she seemed more restrained, and threatened to rant instead of actually ranting. I think her push back is unreasonable in general but the conviction in it feels real.

Listen, I'm not sure about you but a 180 switch does happen.
I'm going to bring up biker wars as an example.
Parama suddenly stopped scum reading me to just switch back.
If multiple players still scum read you and wisdom as scum can just push a mislynch on me today, fake I guess I was wrong and go back to calling you scum, how is that anything at all when he was never satisfied with your response in the first place?
That's why the switch reads fake as fuck.

So he pushed nacho and Shadow but pushed others above them.
Also he did what infinity did in poker mafia, which is ask a player what they think of scum and then accuse the player of having said read.
It's basically a trap when scum ask the question and then uses said comment later to call that player scum.

Wisdom's also had significant pushes on Leonshade and Grey. Why do you think that him pushing me means that we're scum together? Don't you think that it'd be a smarter idea to ram through mislynches on PV and Cakez if we were scum together (since a Wisdom-me scumteam controls most of where the discussion of the day is focused)?
I also don't remember Wisdom using the "trap" on anyone but me - refresh me memory?

Wis asked me about shadow used my response to build a case.
I see that happen more from scum then town.
What i mean is not the question itself but knowing scum buddy is scum then using said feedback later.

[farside22]

Would be interested in hearing about farside's reasons for hard townreading Cakez if they still apply.

Are you scum reading him?
I ask because all I saw in catch up was accusing him of tunneling, which is hypocrisy at best and wrong at worst.

As for scum his scum game is more weak pushes and lack of content. I see none of that here and I also have yet to see anyone express why they are scum reading him other then some association with me where neither of us are dead.
I don't expect many really think about that but I have a higher expectation from infinity who called me out day 1 fit association.
That's just me bitching though.

[farside22]

after she said she'd try to improve,

Why does her saying she'd try to improve mean anything to you?

Because she doesn't look like she's trying to improve.

i still wanna know how "if nacho hasnt posted it might mean wisdom scum" makes sense

Also general reminder to explain this now that I've posted although it's mostly for curiosity's sake.

Yeah I kinda said that too early but I was expecting you and wisdom to start engaging given his turnaround and even more so now with you thinking he's town if you guys were in fact both town. My logic was off though since it's only really scummy if both sides do it but I only saw one side so yeah.

ffs you guys Nacho just threw out a shitload of AtE then started lurking and it's working! It reminds of Musical Mafia where he did the same thing as part of the Pied Piper and nearly got away, but Cerberus saved the game.

Meta!


Using Musical Mafia as an example of my scum play is sort of a poor example when another head was the primary posting head.

Many sheeping without explaining coming and I feel myself hating this game more because all I see is apparently it's ok to add a vote for shitty reasons but I have to jump through hoops to explain myself more then anyone else does in this game.

I seriously wish someone at the end of this game to explain why that happens because currently it's the last straw for me at this point where I want nothing to to with mafia any more.

Don't really see these two things coming from scum-Farside.
Surprised that others do.

It seems genuine but that doesn't mean it's necessarily town.

You should read blood wars. This is an improvement for me.
I felt that game spamming the thread repeating my point and engaging wasn't working so I'm doing less spamming and keeping my emotions on lock down.

Can you summarize your case on wisdom farside and we can talk about it? I promise if you flip own I'll seriously consider it.

Ill make this a priority today.
Just give me a few hours.

Why are you townreading Peregrine? Where did your townread on farside go?

Re-evaluating farside, my prior reasons for townreading her were not terribly concrete, while we're moving into a more fact-based gamestate.

Peregrine is of interest, but it still strikes me as odd that he'd go from non-existent to strong town between 600 and 603 as a buddy. I also think shadow's awkward RVS post is more about appearing to make the best choice for town than it is a buddy vote.

We don't know flavor was necessary to perform the kill, or if any post was required at all.

No team evil member stabs people, which is part of why I'm concerned about it. It seems like very poor design to have an dayvig-flavor IC.

Dayvig-flavor godfather also seems pretty strange to me unless I'm misunderstanding you in a big way.

Misunderstanding, apparently.

If Dayvig-flavor godfather is strange to you, why were so gung-ho on scum-wisdom? Does 1381 still represent the depth of your (former?) wisdom scumread?

This is incredibly vague.
What facts do you agree with and why?

[farside22]

Sorry I got side tracked.
A few things that I have that point to Wisdom scum.
1) the kill on bulba over his strong scum read.
2) only one death night 1 and that was on scum which even though this is more hypothetically then anything, lack of second death could be because Wisdom scum used his kill day 1 for the scum team.
3) during the tunnel on nacho at no point did Wisdom read as though he was satisfied with nachos response and sudden switch reads fake.
4) weak meta and lack of really trying to figure players out.
That last one is biggest one since with walking dead he did more interaction and understanding and this game is just attacking weak points.
5) bulba he was town and he attack Wisdom and found him scum. You can ignore everything else but a dead townies is something to consider when looking for truth in players.
He said Wisdom was known for bussing and saw issues with wisdom. Before bulba could expand and be more involved he was killed.
I know this is part of repeating point 1 but after replacing into a game called first mafia I know bulba can read deeper then others when he's town.

[farside22]

@farside

To my mind it is a fact that:

MoI did not allow for a reasonable chance that the game ends N1, which is highly possible if we take the current situation at face value.
Wisdom did indeed "Stab" bulbazak, and MoI substantially played along with the flavor of the kill if wisdom had any choice.
Wisdom did in fact suffer a penalty for making the kill.
(obviously) Bulb and Wraith/GI were Town, shadow was scum.

It is Highly Probable that:

There is no suitable flavor on the scumteam for the stabbing, so for wisdom to be scum, MoI deliberately designed the role to deceive the Town and went to the trouble of pushing that through bulb's death scene.
Leon killed shadow.
Tammy is BP/Vig, with limitations known to kraska.
Tammy was shot and thus Tammy and Kraska are town.
--- the alternative is that no shot was made, either to make Kraska+Tammy appear to be town and/or because scum had no NK on N1

Silly question.

How do you know Tammy was shot?

[farside22]

Would be interested in hearing about farside's reasons for hard townreading Cakez if they still apply.

Are you scum reading him?
I ask because all I saw in catch up was accusing him of tunneling, which is hypocrisy at best and wrong at worst.

As for scum his scum game is more weak pushes and lack of content. I see none of that here and I also have yet to see anyone express why they are scum reading him other then some association with me where neither of us are dead.
I don't expect many really think about that but I have a higher expectation from infinity who called me out day 1 fit association.
That's just me bitching though.

pre-flip speculation is a lot different that assuming someone's alignment for your reads.

I'm not seeing the difference.
Wisdom called Cakez scum with me because my read on him.
That's (1) weak shit to go off considering his town reads of players are for crap reason and (2) is still an association pre flip.

[farside22]

mod: I know you will hate me but I need to replace out.

Lynch Wisdom he's scum.
Don't buy the fake turn around.