Mini 1851 : Order of the Stick Mafia - Epilogue

[kraska77]

Hello friends ^_^

Vote: Infinity 324

Think your better than farside22 and kraska77?

lol I hate being kraskanumbers butI botched up registration the first time so I had to register again with the sevens

[kraska77]

Town: perepere, Tammy, infinity
Lean town: nacho
Lean scum: kagami

I'm in class and internet sucks here so I'll get back to this when I'm back home

[kraska77]

@MOI: V/LA until Sunday the 13th.

Townreading Inf for his early play, don't see the scum motivation in his play. I think he's immediately scumhunting and trying to get the game going.

VOTE: kraska

Hey bud explain the vote

[kraska77]

I just got home I'll do things after lunch

[kraska77]

bottom two reads as in wraith and kagami right?
also i swear i will do stuff now dont yell at me pls

[kraska77]

i really dislike kagami's interaction with infinity

Here's a spoiler on my fill in the blanks, infinity:

One likely reason for town-farside's vote is that she agrees with wisdom. The other reasons are uninteresting and generally in line with the "not wanting to take nacho to L-2" thought, though I don't think she'd vote you in particular if that were the case.

For scum-farside, the reason is once again Wisdom's earlier statement. She'd feel that there's a real possibility the wagon has legs and be happy to be on early, especially when there's not a real need to justify it. I find your reasoning to be fairly shallow and unlikely. I see no attempt to "appear to be doing something."

this is kind of a cringe post
the probing stopped being about understanding infinity's thought process, and became about kagami flexing town muscles. also theres a coaching tone to this post that really rubs me the wrong way, kagami later says that she's not reding infinity one way or the other, and i feel if that really were true, the interaction wouldnt have come to its conclusion in the form of the post above. also i just dont like that kagami is using her own interpretation of farsides motivations as a benchmark to compare infinity's against, rather than read infinity's motivations for what they are

[kraska77]

speaking of cringe posting.........................

I will also agree with the townreads on Infinity.

I think that him continuing to nitpick things and defend that way of playing despite people clearly finding it odd and worth questioning shows lack of scum motivation.

^this post gets a medal^
i mean whoa really?
adjust his playing style when the entire episode spanned like a couple of posts?

[kraska77]

no.

[kraska77]

on wisdom...i dont feel one way or the other about him right now. his iso so far is just him agreeing and echoing people. the only post where he brings something novel to the table was the cringe post i quoted above....i need to see more posts from wisdom
wraith posts are weird but that could just be quirky playstyle...im waiting for more from that slot
leaning town on farside because i got the same impresson from her latest post as pere...and i think thats what shes like as town

i guess out of everyone who posted so far, kagami feels most scummy
VOTE: kagami

[kraska77]

yeah because posting without tryharding is such a huge adjustment

playstyle adjustment on page 2? really?

[kraska77]

wait i misread ur post nvm i need sleep
and i dont feel he was tryharding so much as misreading the seriousness of other people's posts. i get the feeling he's kind of nervous
pedit:yeah

[kraska77]

What do you think about Wraith's post on me?

which post

[kraska77]

and i think thats what shes like as town

thers continuation to this that my phone ate up
and i think thats what shes like as town when she feels ignored, ive seen that before with parama**
also i agree about the way kagami was discussing farside without directly addressing her is weird thats one thing i forgot to mention

[kraska77]

agree that* the way

[kraska77]

wraith said nothing more than it was stranfge
if he's talking about the content of the 87 post and not about your read progression in general, then i agree with him because the reasoning u gave for ur townread on infinity feels really disingenuous

[kraska77]

to be clearer: Making a post without being over the top tryhard is not a playstyle adjustment, therefore arguing "yeah he wouldnt playstyle adjust so you dont have a point" is bullshit

i dont see how infinity was being "over the top tryhard" i think it was the opposite his posting emanates nervousness/wariness. but nyway ur point was he would have stopped probing people for answers to useless questions...which is still bs considering the timespan

[kraska77]

he voted me for it so strange = scummy in this context
So basically you agree with him that what happened in between doesn't justify my infinity townread?
Because all I'm seeing is Wraith opportunistically finding something he can push here

no i think its an ok vote because ur post was bad

anyway hey...fancy moving your vote to a scumread of urs?

[kraska77]

Infinity 324 (1) - farside22
PeregrineV (1) - shaddowez
Nachomamma8 (3) - Kagami, Wisdom, Tammy
kraska77 (1) - Leonshade
Wisdom (2) - SirCakez, Wraith
SirCakez (1) - PeregrineV
Wraith (1) - Infinity 324

farfar what do u think of kagami
shaddow, kagami, wisdom, tammy hey guys who are u reading as scum
leonshade hey bud explain that weird vote
pere why are u still voting cakeman
inifinity why are you voting wraith?
bulbzak show up pls

[kraska77]

it could still mean that he doesnt find your reasoning convincing enough to think that was a genuine progression
idk wraith come explain that post of urs pls

pedit: wahat

[kraska77]

on wisdom...i dont feel one way or the other about him right now. his iso so far is just him agreeing and echoing people. the only post where he brings something novel to the table was the cringe post i quoted above....i need to see more posts from wisdom

[kraska77]

that was obviously me saying im not giving much weight to a single bad post so..................
pedit:yeah

[kraska77]

shaddow, kagami, wisdom, tammy hey guys who are u reading as scum

oh and nacho too

[kraska77]

It's not really the read I have an issue with, it's your argument. You're trying to argue that wisdom's reason for calling me town is scummy, because you think it's unlikely he would believe that as town, correct? If not I don't get what you're trying to accomplish here

no its exactky like i said...i dont have a read on him and im poking for more content thats all

THOUSANDTH pedit:LET ME POST

[kraska77]

Hey nacho, do you think you can guess who my two favorite lynches are right now?

Do they rhyme with infinity and wisdom?

No, that possibility is currently backburnered. One of my favorites is rather unlikely to be scum with infinity.

let me guess.. me?

[kraska77]

i can buy leon as scum. i dont think he can ever convincingly explain that vote on me tbh

[kraska77]

i just went through shadows iso...nothing stands out to me so far...but he needs to post more content bc most of his iso is about his pedantic comment on tammy's post

[kraska77]

shadow's play in the purge mafia came off as "playing safe" and he got scumread for it...im waiting for more content but i think shadow laying low and playing safe isnt particularly scummy for him

pedit: theres pere too i think

[kraska77]

@wisdom i dont know why you keep making it sound like the two things are mutually exclusive when he just said that one followed from the other
also ur explanations dont really redeem ur townread reasoning from being strange so i dont know what u expect him to comment oon exactly

[kraska77]

his stance on me is basically "here's an 180, ill ignore everything in between because its convenient", "here's a convienient excuse kraska gave me, ill quote it and say that's the case" and "ill conveniently ignore all wisdom's posts on the topic i supposedly find him scummy for"

pedit: @kraska

okay i just think that discussion is going nowhere at this point so why dont u poke him about other things

[kraska77]

this is kind of a cringe post
the probing stopped being about understanding infinity's thought process, and became about kagami flexing town muscles. also theres a coaching tone to this post that really rubs me the wrong way, kagami later says that she's not reding infinity one way or the other, and i feel if that really were true, the interaction wouldnt have come to its conclusion in the form of the post above. also i just dont like that kagami is using her own interpretation of farsides motivations as a benchmark to compare infinity's against, rather than read infinity's motivations for what they are

So, to the point about "stopping probing and flexing muscles", I don't really disagree with your statement but I'm thinking you're missing intent. First of all, I don't really think Kagami had any more probing to do on that particular point; Infinity had already given his reasons for farside and showed that he wasn't thinking about it particular hard. Second of all, the "flexing muscles" bit didn't come out of the blue; it came after Infinity told Kagami she was thinking too much in 39. I don't think the action is in and of itself a scumtell (I do it plenty as both alignments to show people that I'm thinking more about things than they think I am), and I think it made sense there as a way to show Infinity the direction she was taking (digging on whether he thought that farside was voting him because of Wisdom or not). Coaching tells are pretty silly in general, and I'm not sure why you don't think that Kagami would end an interaction in the way she did if she didn't really draw any conclusions from it. Her read also doesn't seem to be based on farside's motivations. She explained why she thought Infinity-scum might buy into Wisdom-town's reasoning (and thus assume farside's vote on it was based on that as a result); I don't really agree with it since I think that it's completely possible Infinity-scum thought Wisdom's reasons sucked despite Wisdom being town, but I don't understand why this would bother you overmuch. Her actual read on Infinity and not Infinity in the context of pairs seems to be based on his approach to farside (which doesn't have anything to do with farside's motivation) and maybe a couple things she commented on, so I'm not sure you're interpreting that right either.

im half asleep at this point i'll reply to this tomorrow but damn this is too much work

[kraska77]

lol...pere u should post more always
ure fun

[kraska77]

Kraska moved up into scum read category.

°☆.。.:*・°☆~~^town^~~°☆.。.:*・°☆

[kraska77]

I'm betting money it's kraska

^^so town^^

[kraska77]

shhh its ok it seems ive been chosen to be the designated person far thinks is scum and tunnels all game long its ok ive accepted my fate
anyway i was kinda half serious too. this is town farside

[kraska77]

The first post from kraska reads like a stretch and a bit of buddying towards me rubs me wrong.
Her defense of Infinity and attack on you I don't see how she comes to this conclusion.

what
"buddying"? really? what part of that even remotely looks like me buddying you? i hardly even mentioned you there

[kraska77]

I don't see how any of these are fluff questions...........

[kraska77]

She's being antitown tho.....needs to drop the attitude
Pedit: she seems more pissed off here than usual but I also think she's town

[kraska77]

Vla till Wednesday....very busy

I still have to reply to that nacho post.. I just got a little lazy :p

[kraska77]

Do you have some interaction with Mr. Scruffy that would explain wraith's earlier futurama crossreferencing?

I'm confused...who is this question aimed at

[kraska77]

I'm probably wrong on kagami........
VOTE: leon

Wisdom why bulbazak and not leon?
Pedit: what impulses

[kraska77]

Vote: GreyICE

Shaddow is my other choice

Why shadow and not leon?

[kraska77]

When you have time, interested in hearing where those read changes came from; also, your comment on #214 (I feel this would be detrimental to town if I said the reasons for kraska being town)... I have absolutely no idea what that could entail except for a PR hint and kraska hasn't hinted at any PR.

I'm interested in hearing more on this too shadow

[kraska77]

I don't see what's setting people off about shadow and wraith
Especially shadow he barely put out Any content to read him off of
Leon on the other hand is kind of obvious scum
pedit: that post feels pretty disingenious

[kraska77]

the leon post pere linked i mean

[kraska77]

I also thought Wraith was softing Belkar.

VOTE: GreyICE

L-2.

He could be softing the cat.

Unvote: GREYICE

Too fast, people, too fast.

Hmm, still haven't scumread him otherwise.

VOTE: shaddowez

Huh?
Pedit: on the contrary imo it looks like hes dissociating himself from a potential mislynch

[kraska77]

"still haven't scumread him otherwise" not sure if i get it or it's worded weirdly

[kraska77]

Btw im not sure i get the mr scruffy stuff...is kagami Mr scruffy?

[kraska77]

If he's really got a vig shot then he's not town.

[kraska77]

"Town aligned" 3p

[kraska77]

Okay I just looked up what a lyncher is and apparently it's a thing so....whatever UNVOTE:

[kraska77]

This game is weird...we're 30 something pages in and (other than leon)I still dont feel like I have anything that resembles a real scum read

[kraska77]

Lol

[kraska77]

How did I become a scumspect nacho D:

[kraska77]

Dw about that...Leons scum but his death can happen later and I'm interested to see how this vig shot target set-up talk will fare out

Pedit: @nacho

[kraska77]

No, its not unreasonable
If i could see scumminess in shaddow then you could too

We could also have different opinions on something. You could feel stronger about something than I did.

Sure. The problem is you felt nothing at all, even when i asked you for a read on him.

i dont feel one way or the other about shadow either. i dont see how this is suspect

[kraska77]

3 extra kills in the hands of town dont make sense
one of them has to be scum
pedit:yep

[kraska77]

tammy's restricted-vig claim is the most town of the three
one of wisdom and leon is scum and its leon

[kraska77]

VOTE: leon lets go friends

[kraska77]

you do realise that him being 3p means there is a possibility the entire scum team is wiped out over the course of day/night 1?

[kraska77]

that is assuming he has a vig shot...which he doesnt...i think

[kraska77]

no i meant scum are exposed to 3 possible kills

[kraska77]

tammy's restricted-vig claim is the most town of the three
one of wisdom and leon is scum and its leon

But what if it's two? Scum. Third party hunting scum. Town. Certain amount of symmetry there that's not unattractive.

Anyway. Where is this shadow we speak of?

this makes sense too

[kraska77]

what if i told you that leon is not the only bulletproof person in the game rn ^_^
restricted b.f. mind you...but still
no way scum are pitted against this much power

[kraska77]

VOTE: cakes

[kraska77]

Shadowez/nacho/kraska with Leon as some sort of 3P
ggez?

You think 3 kill roles in a game is balanced?
I kept thinking about it and it really doesn't.

I agree with nacho.

Well one would be controlled by scum and the other two were both very limited according to how they were claimed (and I believe both)
So yes I do

So you believe Leons 3p claim, and think Tammy is town
But you still vote nacho, who you claim to have as scum "By poe", over wisdom who you just called scum

[kraska77]

Cakes just said that one of the vigs is scum. whatever leon is, he's not scum after night one's kill and cakes knows that. and cakes reads tammy as town. I'd like to know why he doesn't have wisdom in his scumpile ...explain the discrepancy cakes

[kraska77]

yes he does
well theres a discrepancy between his scumpile and the stuff he's saying, but essentially, according to his last couple of posts, you should be in his scumpile but youre not

[kraska77]

he says leon is 3p
he says he believes there are only two vigs in the hands of town, and that theyre restricted...which means he thinks tammy is town
which leaves you. according to him you should be scum but hes not doing anything about you

pedit: oh please

[kraska77]

tunneled my ass why cant i call him scum, infinity?

[kraska77]

yes he does
well theres a discrepancy between his scumpile and the stuff he's saying, but essentially, according to his last couple of posts, you should be in his scumpile but youre not

no there isn't, he obviously meant leon as scum

no

Shadowez/nacho/kraska with Leon as some sort of 3P
ggez?

well if hes calling leon scum, which he didnt do as shown in the thing above, he can feel free to explain the shadow kill

[kraska77]

I'm saying you're biased

really now?

[kraska77]

the whole point of the vig discussion that far prompted was is a game where scum are vulnerable to three vigshots balanced
3p is not part of the scum team

[kraska77]

Thing is, you don't strike me as a nitpicky kind of player, kraska, and this is a pretty nitpicky argument imo.

you talk like you know me when the only game i seem to (vaguely) remember you being in with me is the game where i picked on rask for something as nugatory as the timing of his posts on ari
so like
no thanks

[kraska77]

WTF?
I'm obviously calling Leon the scum there and both of the other two vig claimers town.

well whatever u seem to have missed the point of far's question on balance
anyway i still think youre scum and your reads are hollow
i get the feeling you just poke your head here to echo whatever's already being said

[kraska77]

Town - farside, kraska, PV
Leantown - Tammy, Wisdom, Infinity, Nacho
Leanscum - Cakez, Kagami, Leon
Scum - Bulba, Wraith

(Details to come probably tomorrow, Mondays and meetings suck)

Also the list is a good indicator that 1 scum buddy is in the leaning scum list and I'm pretty certain cakez is town.

why are you pretty certain cakes is town?
also i think shadow put his buddies in different categories

[kraska77]

my townread on pere is dwindling
i have townreads on everyone other than: kagami, wisdom, cakes, pv
on kagami: i cant really place what it is about her posts that i dont like. but anyway i get the feeling im probably wrong on her
i think cakes is scum
and if he is then i dont really think wisdoms the buddy. especially not after the last few pages...
its probably pere i guess

[kraska77]

I was the first one to call you scum.

wow am i supposed to give u town points for that shit
all u did was call me scum

i still think youre scum and

your reads are hollow

[kraska77]

so u do admit ur reads are hollow

[kraska77]

Town - farside, kraska, PV
Leantown - Tammy, Wisdom, Infinity, Nacho
Leanscum - Cakez, Kagami, Leon
Scum - Bulba, Wraith

(Details to come probably tomorrow, Mondays and meetings suck)

Also the list is a good indicator that 1 scum buddy is in the leaning scum list and I'm pretty certain cakez is town.

why are you pretty certain cakes is town?
also i think shadow put his buddies in different categories

Would you say his play reminds you of blood wars?
If you have a good reason to scum read him I'll read it.
But so far he is doing a lot more figuring things out here.

oops i missed ur post
i dont see him figuring things out. all he does is give convenient reads he cant seem to backup with explanations...and i dont see the progression, he goes from nothing to something all at once. it feels like he puts out reads that cater to the game state, not reads he genuinely arrived at.
and when he's not making convenient readlists, he's echoing whatever's already being said

[kraska77]

I see the progression in town cakes
I see none of that here

[kraska77]

Ur face

[kraska77]

What was the "strong case" that got greyice lynched yesterday? Since you're all asking me for a strong case on scum

[kraska77]

Also yes I thought shadow was town yesterday. Him praising wisdoms stab threw me off and I thought that would have been a dumb thing to do if scum

[kraska77]

Infinity can u actually make up ur mind on me? If ure going to call me scum and then boohoo anything people bring up against me, then I don't get what ure doing

[kraska77]

I don't know I've never seen that happen before.....
But then I haven't been here long

[kraska77]

Can scum actually shoot one of their own? Is that even allowed?

[kraska77]

I think I agree with kagami on leon. I've come around on his claim and hes probably what he claimed to be
But this three vig stuff is still nagging at me. I still feel likethis isn't balanced for scum
Especially given that two of us are bulletproof apparently

[kraska77]

Kagami claimed Mr scruffy right?
Cop cakes if that's not getting rope today

[kraska77]

Also there's an explanation for the lack of scum kills. So I think u guys should forget it for now

[kraska77]

VOTE: kagami

I think this is best actually. Coasting off townreads is bad, interactions with shadow are meh, and there's the counterwagoning. Plus the part where he (she?) and kraska scumread each other and never voted each other. I've decided that's likely SvT, so kraska can be town based off that.

Nacho by interactions and play is scummy but wisdom by setup spec is scummy and I think one is scum because their back-and-forth feels too distant to be TvT.

Who thinks scum is outside {nacho, kraska, kagami, wisdom}?

......what do you think you're doing????

[kraska77]

Really dislike this nacho lynch. Is there any good reason why nacho goes before cakes and Pere?

Leon should still cop cakes...imo

[kraska77]

VOTE: kagami

I think this is best actually. Coasting off townreads is bad, interactions with shadow are meh, and there's the counterwagoning. Plus the part where he (she?) and kraska scumread each other and never voted each other. I've decided that's likely SvT, so kraska can be town based off that.

Nacho by interactions and play is scummy but wisdom by setup spec is scummy and I think one is scum because their back-and-forth feels too distant to be TvT.

Who thinks scum is outside {nacho, kraska, kagami, wisdom}?

......what do you think you're doing????

Lmfao never mind... my head keeps confusing kagami with Tammy for some reason and I thought u voted tammy

[kraska77]

Yes, I've given good reasons and I don't see you commenting on them

Your reasons were "nacho's not seeing what I'm seeing so he must be scum!" Iirc....anything else?

[kraska77]

Also there's an explanation for the lack of scum kills. So I think u guys should forget it for now

for this mainly

Shhh let him play dumb

Pedit: okay I'll read your iso now bc I don't remember seeing anything compelling on nacho...but then again I'm behind on this game

[kraska77]

Strongest piece of associatives is nacho never talking about shaddow and not noticing the scumminess in his posts. We usually see the same things, here only I did and nacho was acting like there was nothing alignment indicative.

Didn't find anything in your iso besides this.....

[kraska77]

I don't see what's setting people off about shadow and wraith
Especially shadow he barely put out Any content to read him off of
Leon on the other hand is kind of obvious scum
pedit: that post feels pretty disingenious

@kraska Hadn't shadow posted as much content as leon at this point?

No

[kraska77]

Leon's few posts pinged me and I wasn't looking for more content there because I had him down as scum.
Shadow was null and i was undecided on how I feel about what he had posted at the time so I needed to see more of him

[kraska77]

@nacho Are you saying you voted leon just because shadow had more content? Because if so that's incredibly shallow, especially since at least imo shadow's catchup was largely fluff/empty questions.

No, I'm saying I voted Leon over shadow because Leon's catch up was worse.

And i agree with this and don't see why this should be held against nacho when I've essentially done the same thing too

[kraska77]

Okay and if we lynch nacho today and he flips town, how will that affect your reads wisdom and what will your new lynhpool look like?

[kraska77]

Answer my question
If nacho's town then who's scum

[kraska77]

What I don't understand about your push on me is that your apology seemed legitimate; you seemed like you honestly regretted tunneling the shit out of me in two games in a row for two straight games, and, in this game, for just a couple blessed moments you were townreading me and apparently not falling into old habits and then suddenly you're pushing the shit out me all over again? Why?

Because he's scum and(failing at) faking read progression

[kraska77]

Tammy if nacho's scum...who do you think he's most likely to kill night 1?

[kraska77]

Omg my avi is hideous

[kraska77]

Farside does make sense as the missing piece in all of this
(I guess kagami too but I don't see scum obsessing over the mr scrub or was it scruff lol...I don't see scum making that "game is overwhelmed with vanilla town" comment either)

[kraska77]

And the way I suddenly plummeted in her list when she called me town earlier today doesn't look good

[kraska77]

Either way I still prefer lynching cakes first. Idk why the stuff I said on him got dismissed as bs earlier...cakes has been in almost all my recent games, nothing he put out here looks like a product of a scum hunting mindset. There is not a single novel/personal explanation he provided for the way his readlists morphed throughout the game. I look at the way his readlists changed and can't help but think this is scum following changes in the game and putting together readlists as uncontentious as possible

[kraska77]

I guess this is a lot of words to say that if Nacho is scum and he did what I think he did last night, it's unexpected and I'm confused.

Yeah it's one of the reasons I think he's town
That and I think his thought process makes sense...I had similar thoughts about shadow and Leon and grey

[kraska77]

kagami how about cakes today?

[kraska77]

what about cakes/farside?

[kraska77]

do you think nacho would want to kill tammy over you or farside(presumably town if nacho scum bc i cant see the two as scum together either)?

[kraska77]

lets lynch cakes first and get farside copped instead...i feel better about a cakes lynch

[kraska77]

VOTE: farside whatever this day needs to end

[kraska77]

but it does

[kraska77]

i came to today ready to lynch wisdom or cakes
especially after i came around on the leon claim being true
but the more wisdom talked today the less inclined i felt to vote him and i feel good about his slot
the three vig thing is always at the back of my mind whenevr i check this thread but i really dont see wisdom being scum even if leon turns out to be a protown lyncher

[kraska77]

I would lynch wisdom with great prejudice If I knew you to be a pro-town vig.

even if he isnt a lyncher on scum
him being bulletproof is alone detrimental enough to scum and this would still be townsided

[kraska77]

thats a quote thats supposed to show mod meta against letting games potentially end in one day phase so im not sure what ure aying

pedit: come on

[kraska77]

tammy should vig leon imo if possible

[kraska77]

oh wait bp -__-

[kraska77]

No that was just to set up Tammy as a sitting duck for scum, she's the one who's bulletproof

[kraska77]

I claimed bulletproof before so why is this news to you idgi

[kraska77]

I claimed bulletproof before so why is this news to you idgi

There being 2 town bps I mean

[kraska77]

Oh okay

[kraska77]

I still would rather see cakes hang today than farside
I'm confident cakes is scum. farside I don't know
VOTE: cakes
Let's do this instead

[kraska77]

Can leon cop farside?

[kraska77]

@Leon, kagami
Wanna vote cakes?

[kraska77]

Why?

[kraska77]

I also don't think it makes sense for a lyncher-on-town to constitute a threat to town, since that could put us in the situation where there are no groupscum and we would have to find this lyncher or just lynch his target and win together. That would be pretty silly.

Yes, this.

[kraska77]

Also kagami you asked about what's there in the hood
A lot of what you posted today, ur scepticism regarding a potential day 1 town win and paranoia about wisdoms choice for a stab being outside ofday ones lynch pool is almost verbatim of my posts in the hood

As for tammys thoughts, there's lots of nacho paranoia and other stuff but I'll leave it to her to share what she wants to share

Like I said I came to today ready to vote cakes and wisdom, but backed off wisdom because I just don't feel him being scum

That MoI game being quoted is old, maybe he really is trying something new here or intentionally twisting his own mod meta...idk

[kraska77]

no

[kraska77]

im not a he
nacho's not gamedodging u scumbutt, his activity is low across other games too

[kraska77]

Either way I still prefer lynching cakes first. Idk why the stuff I said on him got dismissed as bs earlier...cakes has been in almost all my recent games, nothing he put out here looks like a product of a scum hunting mindset. There is not a single novel/personal explanation he provided for the way his readlists morphed throughout the game. I look at the way his readlists changed and can't help but think this is scum following changes in the game and putting together readlists as uncontentious as possible

What do you think of him compared to Real Folks Blues? I disliked him that game because it felt like he was just sort of floating along, and he feels pretty similar to there; the only major difference in my mind is the reasons I'm bothered by his interactions with me.

its hard to explain these nuances but im certain he's scum. he feels different for a lot of reasons, but what makes me comfortable keeping my vote on him is his reactions to being called scum here are unique to what i know him to be like. like yeah...sorry im still shit at explaining why people feel different to me when they do...im just confident he'll flip scum

[kraska77]

farside why? is it only bc of ingame frustration or sth else?
bcs if it is then stay. nacho and i and i think tammy and maybe tammy are not really sold on u being scum. ure focusing too much on wisdom

[kraska77]

wanna vote cakes with me? i promise he'll flip scum

[kraska77]

holy shit i need to stop confusing kagami and tammy

[kraska77]

holy shit i need to stop confusing kagami and tammy

with* tammy

[kraska77]

Fwiw: Leon being a modified lynched on town makes a lot of sense. The alternative explanations are: 8-3-1 setup

despite many vanillas

, fake claim for no reason on pro-town 3rd party, or scum killed their own as a gambit.

nacho how do feel about the bolded? i think this is unlikely to come from scum...its one of the few things in kagami's iso that make me think shes likely town

[kraska77]

peregrinooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

do something

[kraska77]

kagami-
if cakes is scum, who do you think their buddy's most likely to be?
you can answer this after nacho responds to u if u want

[kraska77]

why not? because of your nacho sus?

[kraska77]

^@kagami

@infinity-
youve done a lot of flip flopping today dude. and it doesnt feel like these tangents and conclusions are urs

[kraska77]

[kraska77]

Do you think Tammy was shot last night?

probably
do you?

[kraska77]

I didn't express any doubts on him yesterday

yeah.
farside makes way more sense as a nacho nk
kagami too

[kraska77]

If you were scum and Nacho was town, would you leave him around?

If nightklills aren't rolefishing or a group decision or a game reason, I find they are mostly personal (as in XXXX knows me too well, not as in I hate XXXX).

but see, towards the end of the day, anti-nacho sentiment started flying about the room and it was mostly farside and kagami's doing. wisdom chimed in on it too iirc, maybe infinity too.
tammy at the time looked like one of the few people who wouldnt give him a hard time on day 2

[kraska77]

Fwiw: Leon being a modified lynched on town makes a lot of sense. The alternative explanations are: 8-3-1 setup

despite many vanillas

, fake claim for no reason on pro-town 3rd party, or scum killed their own as a gambit.

nacho how do feel about the bolded? i think this is unlikely to come from scum...its one of the few things in kagami's iso that make me think shes likely town

I think that I'm missing something here; why do you think that it's town?

therere only 2 flipped vanillas and thats hardly "many". so this is basically kagami claiming vt and i dont see why kagami as scum would randomly cut down options for herself like that when theres no need to

[kraska77]

@nacho well yeaah but
still makes more sense that she would think towns not pr heavy if she knows there are 3 vanillas

[kraska77]

it is....
i have trouble understanding where kagami's coming from most of the time but this, and her focus on wraith's mr scruffy shtick, dont feel like things that would come from scum

pedit: @nacho
also im loving the recent boom in activity. pere stop disappearing pls

[kraska77]

If you were scum and Nacho was town, would you leave him around?

If nightklills aren't rolefishing or a group decision or a game reason, I find they are mostly personal (as in XXXX knows me too well, not as in I hate XXXX).

but see, towards the end of the day, anti-nacho sentiment started flying about the room and it was mostly farside and kagami's doing. wisdom chimed in on it too iirc, maybe infinity too.
tammy at the time looked like one of the few people who wouldnt give him a hard time on day 2

I don't think scum-Nacho would be killing players "pushing for his lynch" on day1. Anyone who has played even a few games can weather anything like that.

true but farside was strongly townread by everyone by the end of day one, so was kagami. i think ultimately it looked like nacho would net more from making those kills than shooting tammy

[kraska77]

1. Infinity 324-town.............probably
2. Leonshade- some kind of whatever lyncher. i believe that part of the claim atleast
5. PanterPunt replaced farside22- probably town
6. PeregrineV *- probably scum
7. Tammy- town
8. Nachomamma8 *- lean town
9. Kagami- town
11. Wisdom- town
12. SirCakez- our lynch today, hopefully

pere just makes most sense to me as a cakes partner right now. everyone else im townreading to some degree

[kraska77]

tammy, him ignoring ur concerns about him earlier today means little bc there was nothing really to address there. its like u would come and say 'hmm i think nacho might be scum'. do u expect him to vacuously reassure u hes town? idk i just dont think its that big of a deal

[kraska77]

yep. anyway
if we lynch him tomorrow and he flips town...who would u be looking at next?

[kraska77]

but hes not here rn

[kraska77]

i dunno man. im just not really feeling a cakes/nacho team..........................
and the way nacho's posts were killing momentum for potential farside/wisdom mislynches doesnt strike me as scum. yeah i know its totally a thing scum would do, to play peacemaker, but it really felt like he dug his own grave here when there were easier alternatives to take.
that and...@pere tammy said they promised not to kill eachother on night one if theyre opposite alignments unless they really had to. he certainly didnt have to off tammy here while kagami and farside are still around. i dont see why he'd break a mutual promise like that when he didnt hve to

[kraska77]

can we atleast run cakes up to l-1 today? its annoyng how the lynches i want only seem to happen when theyre mislynches but get derailed forever when theyre on scum

[kraska77]

hi pantherpunt b cool and vote cakes thx
or be a loser and not vote cakes in which case i will h8 u

[kraska77]

Hey guys cakes is still not at l-1
Can we atleast make this happen today ffs look at all his recent posts how can u not see he's scum

Probably won't log in and post at all before deadline is up. Lynch cakes thx

[kraska77]

tammy-
i understand ur frustration and that your read being intuitive and personal like it is means youre picking up on things the rest of us might not notice or care about. i would have sheeped u without ny questions if i werent so certain cakes is scum. its just................i dont really see a cakes/nacho team here
and i know im not the only one who feels this team lineup is off(kagami dropped her cakes scumread as soon as her nacho scumread materialised)
if im wrong and nachos scum then thats great. nachos getting lynched tomorrow probably anyway. the thing is if he does flip town then we end up with so many scumspects and leon who definitely should be lynched at some point. if leons a 3p then theres a good chance scum can bluff their way to lylo.... i just dislike how cakes hasnt been really pressured to say more and this days almost over

[kraska77]

im kind of wondering if we're sleeping on infinity here....
he doesnt seem to be scumhunting at all

[kraska77]

Okay np >.> <.<

[kraska77]

wow cakes hasnt been pushed to even claim this day phase my heart is brokens

[kraska77]

Depression is irrelevant, the sentiment is equally dreadful if you replace "depression" with "excessive banana consumption" and I'd respond the same in those circumstances.

Oh, sorry, but this is stupid as hell and you should know better.

i agree
that was really insensitive kagami

[kraska77]

Thanks

[kraska77]

Cakes ur claim pls

[kraska77]

Lynch cakes now

[kraska77]

Someone hammer this scumbag rn

[kraska77]

HAMMERU HAMMERU HAMMERU

[kraska77]

^agreed
But Leon why nacho over cakes

[kraska77]

i think lack of nightkill points to last scum being out of touch with the thread....peregrinooo? maybe punther?

im down for lynching nacho first if thats what the majority wants tho...but i really dont think nachos scum here

[kraska77]

i think lack of nightkill points to last scum being out of touch with the thread....peregrinooo? maybe punther?

im down for lynching nacho first if thats what the majority wants tho...but i really dont think nachos scum here

At this point I would be vehemently against a Nacho lynch.

do you think is farside? wisdom? kagami?

[kraska77]

kraska do you think scum shot tammy again?

probably...

[kraska77]

you should reveal

pedit: not yet not today

[kraska77]

google search yields nothing who's thog kagami

[kraska77]

oh...found him
wisdom's guy was also a bad guy right?

[kraska77]

okay wtf.................................
i just skimmed the characters wiki and im beginning to have stupid ideas

wisdom u said u can guess who tammy and i are...so what do u think our characters be?

[kraska77]

kagami and leon...u too
if u were to guess our characters, what 2 characters make most sense given what you know about our claims so far

[kraska77]

okay so i just read about my character and apparently im xykon's secret weapon LOL
idk what to think really

[kraska77]

Monster in the Darkness

thats me!

[kraska77]

yes
according to leon it seems they're not just strongly tied to xykon so my paranoia on tammy's kind of gone

[kraska77]

^@pere

[kraska77]

what does a story vendor do




also ive given up on trying to make sense of this setup.

[kraska77]

How does scum!me know nacho was rolestopped instead of just doc'ed?

Well, in theory, when you are the last scum, most mods will let scum PRs kill and do their PR thing. You could have PRed him night1 while Cake tried to kill, and tried both last night.

My question is why would you pick him 2 nights in a row if you though he was ascetic after the first night?

And why would your failure make you vote him?

he thought he was roleblocked by cakes so he went for it again

[kraska77]

Was he jailkept and given a story the first night?

oh i forgot about the story part

VOTE: panther i guess....

[kraska77]

okay but what kind of town is this
bulletproof strongman(ffs)
bulletproof/vig neighbour
Neapolitan
rolestopper
1 shot dayvig

thats too much

[kraska77]

actually nacho being shot night 1 and tammy night 2 makes a lot more sense

i really dont think anyone would have been dumb enough to kill nacho after what happened on day 2

[kraska77]

i mean if panther's scum, i think thats how the kills went
i just get the feeling last scum wasnt following the thread

[kraska77]

Oh gods i thought nacho was town
gg ^_^
(And sorry for my earlier fuck up MoI >. >)

[kraska77]

65 in the scum PT explains that Leon and I were right on the mark when arguing that Nacho shot Leon because he had no other choice

It amuses me that Tammy and Kagami looked at me like I was an alien when I was arguing that, yet last day where I was the one with the doubts, I was the unreasonable one again

Why would be shoot a claimed bulletproof
I know that's what he actually did but while in game this didn't make any sense to consider