Mini 1901 - over

[Tywin Lannister]

/confirming

[Tywin Lannister]

Did this game already start?

[Tywin Lannister]

It is time to begin!

Today's item:

Lifedrinker Blade

Gain the following action:
Lifedrink: Target a player at night. If they die this night, you require 1 more vote to be lynched tomorrow.

The player who places the hammer vote will receive this item.

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch!

Day ends in (expired on 2017-04-22 16:00:00)

Didn't even know. Was waiting on another PM. If anyone else hasn't posted since confirming, that may be why. Catching up, but chill the fuck out with your 11 pages. You're all overexcited scum. Vote: everyone

[Tywin Lannister]

I can't believe I actually thought you might be a good player at one point in time, fb

you're just a fucking useless troll, and you can die

Ummmm what?

I can't believe I actually thought you might be a good player at one point in time, fb

you're just a fucking useless troll, and you can die

need me to repeat it again?

I feel like you're pushing my buttons, fb, intentionally, and it pisses me off

why is the early game not serious? because you make it not serious, that is the only reason

Can't wait to play with this guy. Jesus... So much whining.

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Drealmerz

Nice naked sheep vote snuck in-between ego clashes on low hanging fruit.

[Tywin Lannister]

Let's lynch the scum who is sitting back with something to drink watching you have at it, (It's Wheme btw) Why do people tr me again? Not that I mind please keep doing it

Elena is town.

[Tywin Lannister]

Let's lynch the scum who is sitting back with something to drink watching you have at it, (It's Wheme btw) Why do people tr me again? Not that I mind please keep doing it

Lol

Lol VOTE: wheme

Lol

[Tywin Lannister]

So I caught up on 11 pages of shit. This is a new low right now. That's all I'll say about it. Wake me up with fragile egos, blind tunneling on lynchbait, and lame PL threats go away and people start playing the game. RVS is better than this, and you're all better players than this.

Anyway, Wheme is newbscum and needs the rope. Let's pick up tomorrow after the easy scum lynch.

[Tywin Lannister]

Dreamerz is the low hanging lynchbait fruit. Everyone SRs him, so unless his scum buddies haven't posted yet, he's prob town. He's annoying for sure, but I don't know his meta to call that AI. All I see is the majority of posters calling him scum, and scum don't bus on D1 without getting legitimate TCred for it. He's the obv lynchbait town drunk IMO.

Wheme getting a pass by everyone not named Elena makes me think he's a far better bet, and until the others post and/or fuck up their scum entrance enough to make it obvious, I'm sticking my vote where it belongs.

[Tywin Lannister]

Dreamerz is the low hanging lynchbait fruit. Everyone SRs him, so unless his scum buddies haven't posted yet, he's prob town. He's annoying for sure, but I don't know his meta to call that AI. All I see is the majority of posters calling him scum, and scum don't bus on D1 without getting legitimate TCred for it. He's the obv lynchbait town drunk IMO.

Wheme getting a pass by everyone not named Elena makes me think he's a far better bet, and until the others post and/or fuck up their scum entrance enough to make it obvious, I'm sticking my vote where it belongs.

I'll claim my really cool PR if you want

Is it scum wizard extraordinaire with the power to zap townies at night and turn them into scummy zombies? I bet it is. Does it take two extra votes to lynch you due to you being an undead lich lord with a cloak of +2 lynchvotes? Or is your secret power to naked vote lynchbait town while hoping to remain undetected to carry out your evil plans?

Would you like to buy my vote elsewhere? Kahjiit has warez, if you have coin.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin is scum regardless of whether he's white knighting or hard defending his scumbuddy but given my experience with him he's far more liable to hard defend than white knight

You've played a game with me when I was scum. You know I'm not dumb enough to hard defend a scum buddy, especially on D1.

Why are you giving this newscum Wheme guy a pass? He had to play a few newbie games to even get into this one, so he should know better. The only legitimate excuse is that he's scum. Absolutely nothing he's said or done is pro-town, and on the contrary, the fact that you'd be willing to chainsaw, ignore all of Wheme's posts, and tunnel on the obvious lynchbait is pretty telling. You'd be smarter than this if town. Dreamerz is the obv town beard lynchbait, because absolutely everyone SRs him. Only a few SE Whene for his scummy posts, unexplained votes, illogical reasoning, etc. he's the obvious newbscum here. If he flips scum, you're next.

[Tywin Lannister]

In my experience of RCs town play, the best course of action is for everyone to vote him, he will freak, overreact, and replace out if town. If scum, he will stay and fight.

This won't happen, but if we are going to use meta for anything, that's the best way to handle RC.

[Tywin Lannister]

Point being: meta is useless. Good players manipulate it. Play the game as if this is their first, and then see whose scummy. Wheme is scummy. None of you can disagree. You only ignore it, but go after the easy lynch in Dreamerz. Town should know better with the quality of the current players, so either the Dreamerz thing is ego clashing (it is), is a scum train (I think it is), or both (my view).

RC/FB need to stop harassing the guy, because he's obviously easy to troll. That's easy to see, so leave the guy alone. Play the game and make an actual case on him that isn't just a policy lynch, or you're probably scum and need the rope. Simple stuff.

[Tywin Lannister]

People that think I'm scum here, especially those that have seen my town and scum games, are either purposely giving a wrong read for obviously non-town reasons, or they're just not good at reads in general. I won't be lynched regardless, because I'm town, have a role town won't lynch, and am usually always proven right with my early reads as town. The only way scum legitimately get rid of me is pushing for a D1 lynch on me, because after my reads flip, I become practically unlynchible. A few of the players here know this.

If scum, I usually let town hang them selves. Dreamerz is the absolutely perfect D1 lynchbait for scum. It's so painfully obvious that anyone not paying attention should start doing so. The only way I'd be scum and defending Dreamerz is if I'm his scum buddy, but people should know me better than that. I don't stick my neck out for lynchbait scumbuddies when I can bus them for easy town cred. Don't insult me by claiming otherwise, WIFOM or not.

So here's the deal: either town are pushing obv lynchbait due to ego clashes (which this is), or scum are pushing it with the excuse of ego clashes. Dreamerz did this to himself, but I'm not going to go against my win con just to policy lynch an easily trolled player. Even if he proves to be useless, lynching actual scum is the goal, and his over reactions and angry responses don't come from calculated scum. This is obvious. If scum have day chat, they'd be coaching him to stfu.

I think Alban may be scum, especially since I've seen how he plays previously. I have a feeling someone on the Dreamerz train is scum, which I'm going for the easiest scum lynch on D1: Wheme. Scum will let a weak link buddy get lynched if they have to, and that's what Wheme is here. Flips and things will decide who his buddies are.

[Tywin Lannister]

wheme wagon is a giant joke

I claimed Pr already idk why their voting me

Horrordude is town. Elena is town. Dreamerz is lynchbait town or really bad at scum, but he's not buddies with RC or FB. That would be some advanced scum theater that I can't get behind. Wheme is still getting a pass by people for whatever reason, but idk his meta to conclude why. I'll say that horrordude's assessment of it is wrong, but he's town for giving it. I need to take another look at the player list, since I'm not fully invested yet, but Alban seems like a good vote. I'm not moving yet, but we'll see what he does from here. His entrance pinged me, but since I'm not voting him, I'm not going to waste my time explaining why just yet. Horrordude covered some of it at least.

So I do wanna get into a discussion on Wheme with those that have played with him before. Why does he think claiming 'I'm a PR' is reason for anyone to not vote him? He legitimately thinks his play is town and his 'I'm a PR' claim is valid? Wtf? Where did you people play with him before, and how doesn't he know what a naked vote is, lynchbait is, opportunistic vote is, claims are and arent, and any of the other basic Mafia stuff?

I ask it, because he pings me as obv newscum, but unless he's another KainTepes minus the charisma, idk what the hell people are reading here that makes him town. Someone please explain, because if he's as brand new as it seems, his play reeks of newscum rather than newtown. The hard defense of him by multiple players, plus the ignorance of tunneling on the other lynchbait player Dreamerz seems odd to me. People aren't this blind unless doing it on purpose. You can't call Wheme lynchbait and Dreamerz scum when one has given all the signs of newscum and the other given enough emotional responses to see he's a railroaded townie. What am I missing here?

[Tywin Lannister]

Alban: defend yourself from what? I said you look like scum, but I didn't build a case around you yet. There's nothing for you to defend yet. If/when that happens, then I'll expect something other than refusal to comment.

[Tywin Lannister]

The first 4-6 pages was you/RC ganging up to troll the guy, although 90% of it was his own doing. I may have worded it wrong, because he started and escalated it by himself, but you two did feed into it. Regardless, whenever I see 'policy lynch' within the first few pages of a game, I know it's not based on playing the game. He's settled down since then too, which should say something. I think he overreacts by a lot to minor things, but since you all have a history, you both knew that beforehand. After that, it just became an ego clash thing.

[Tywin Lannister]

Your loss, if town.

Tywin, you still haven't answered the game you were referring to that reminds you of scum!me.

Horrordude, I didn't say I am universally unlynchable. But given the state of things in this particular game, I don't see me getting lynched. At least not right away. Call it a town's misplaced confidence.

About your reasoning for voting me, it's a circular argument. You say yourself that not much has happened. But then you are not happy with me for not providing anything substantial. I have no substantial reads on anyone for justifying my suspicion, so all I can go by right now is the tone and the way people have framed their posts.

In fact, you and Tywin shading me for my post make you opportunists. We will see how far you take it. Who knows, maybe you will succeed in lynching me? Your loss as town.

I don't need to see you're past scum games to put you in my current scum pool. I'm in half the player's scum or scum lean pool atm, but it doesn't mean anything. If someone makes a case on me, then I'll discuss it and go from there. As it stands now, there's no point. Relate this to yourself too. You're a little too worried about being lynched over two players saying you may be scum. That's a bit odd to me. What are you so worried about? You realize that I haven't brought an actual case against you, right? I don't vote without reasons. I'm not Wheme.

Do you wanna know the list of the players mentioning me, and sometimes me alone, as the scummiest player so far? Would that make you feel better? My defense of dreamelrz looking like lynchbait has nearly everyone calling me scum, and the problem with that is that nearly everyone saying it looks like town. I'm more suspicious of those who haven't tbh. So what about you? Two players mention your name and every post of yours becomes about that. There's some whining, some veiled threats, and a few other things sprinkled in. Please, continue. If I build a case on you, the more the merrier.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm not lynching RC or drealmerz (this guys name is hell using autocorrect). RC can threaten all he wants, but all he can do is post. If he spams and makes it entirely unplayable, he'll get banned. The same goes for drealmerz. They'll calm down eventually, although I can't trust either to ever play the game correctly. If they're both town (which I think they are), then scum have it pretty easy with such a loud distraction.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm not lynching RC or drealmerz (this guys name is hell using autocorrect). RC can threaten all he wants, but all he can do is post. If he spams and makes it entirely unplayable, he'll get banned. The same goes for drealmerz. They'll calm down eventually, although I can't trust either to ever play the game correctly. If they're both town (which I think they are), then scum have it pretty easy with such a loud distraction.

If we are both town why is absolutely no one in the game willing to vote either of us? Where is the scum jumping at the wagon to blame me for it?

Anyone that knows you probably already knows you're not an easy target regardless, and they'll take whatever comes easiest D1. Why wouldn't they? Why stick their neck out to try to lynch someone that could get them in a shitstorm of attention?

Drealmers on the other hand has gotten votes, and he's clearly easier to mislynch. Think about it. What would you do as scum? You'd let town gang themselves. Scum don't even need to be on D1 wagons most of the time to still get a mislynch.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hang*.

Also, that's the only reason I have doubts about Wheme, but there's enough pushback for me to not jump off. He's not the easy town lynchbait that drealmers looks to be IMO. Too many TR him for no reason.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'm not lynching RC or drealmerz (this guys name is hell using autocorrect). RC can threaten all he wants, but all he can do is post. If he spams and makes it entirely unplayable, he'll get banned. The same goes for drealmerz. They'll calm down eventually, although I can't trust either to ever play the game correctly. If they're both town (which I think they are), then scum have it pretty easy with such a loud distraction.

If we are both town why is absolutely no one in the game willing to vote either of us? Where is the scum jumping at the wagon to blame me for it?

Typically you see a few votes to see scum jump on board.
Currently players are in the chill the fuck out category.

What do you think about PeregrineV's 'let's lynching both of them!' stance?

I think it's something to pay attention to. If this 1v1 happened on D2 or D3, maybe there's something to it, but on D1 starting on Page 1? There's not. His attitude is anti-town, but I don't get a SR from it yet. If he's scum, he'll say something worth looking at beyond just this stance.

[Tywin Lannister]

Too many people = literally just me?

Did you forget the first 11 pages? Or other players? Idk the current vote count, but Wheme hasn't switched, and others voted drealmers too. Besides that, plenty called him scum while ignoring others like Wheme. Hell, even you forgot he exists here.

[Tywin Lannister]

This game will be an easy town victory if my early reads are correct. One right flip and it's off to the finish line. Obvious town are obvious, certain players already claimed Miller so they get placed in my scum pool regardless, certain players admitted they aren't town, but that's not something scum say. Miller is, but not what Dunnstrel said. RC/FB/Dream are all town, but IF there's scum between them, it is Dream. RC is playing way too much like his hero Titus to be scum here. It's too obvious to me based on seeing specific things from a previous town game with him. FB doesn't look scummy, so I'm not touching that slot at least for D1. Horrordude looks town. Elena looks town. I can safely narrow my lynch pool down drastically here.

So let me give my lynch pool/probable scum picks. These are the early reads I'll lynch today. Unless I see something drastic, I won't be changing to anything else:

Toogaloo - claimed Miller, but then votes Dunnestral for saying he isn't town. Wtf? This guy cannot make it to mylo/Lylo regardless and needs a rope either sometime soon or two vigi shots to the chest and one in the head. This is basic gameplay. Idc if it's today, but he can't stay alive unless he 1v1s multiple scum and flips them. All Miller claims are a risk town can't keep around IMO, but I think he's scum regardless.

Wheme - nobody can deny this guy is scummy af. If anyone does, I'll require you to spend the minute or two it takes to ISO him and explain to me why you'd possibly think his play comes from town. I'm willing to listen, but I don't see it myself, and it's gonna take someone with really good reads to convince me otherwise. ISO him and tell me why his play isn't scummy.

Edo - gut pick more than anything, but I'll ISO him when I have time and see more

Alban - gut pick, plus other reasons, which I'll get into later when I have time.

Null pick that I don't see enough to decide - PeregrinV

My picks are Wheme or Alban. Let's see what pushback comes around from them. I know Alban will at least respond to this. Wheme just posts 'lol' and AtE responses. He's not town. IMO he's the correct lynch if deadline was today. Lucky for him, it isn't, and he can prove me wrong if he wants.

[Tywin Lannister]

It's not hypocritical when you consider that 1) I am god emperor RC and everyone else isn't

Relax with the ego homie. It's not flattering.

[Tywin Lannister]

It's not meant to be helpful in terms of what you define helpful as. my strict definition of helpful is gets town closer to winning. I am doing that to the best of my ability.

When I try to be helpful I get ignored and scum win games because louder and considerably worse mafia players take the wheel.

Based on the one game I've played with you in the past (Elena, FB, and PeregrinV were there too), your reads weren't correct, you replaced after being SR, and you overall weren't the reason town won. So... Stop assuming you're always correct. The other thing you should get better at doing is giving reasons for why you have the reads you do. If you want people to sheep you, then provide a case that's logical. As it stands, your logic consists entire of 'I'm the bestest player evar and nobody else is me so you're wrong I'm right I'm god king RC look at me I like to pee Come and see heehee.'

Point is, you have to work on things from a logical standpoint and stop using AtE as you're entire game plan, town or scum. It's not something people look at and give credit to, even if you are right, because you're unable to express why you get your reads, how you got there, and what the consequences of being right or wrong entail. You just say random bs and assume people should take your word for it. That's not how this works.

I don't think you're a bad or clueless player by any means, but this kind of thing needs to be toned down and logical arguments need to be toned up. Don't try to be Titus, because trust me, nobody respects that kind of playstyle. It would've been frowned upon pretty harshly on this site years ago. This isn't epic Mafia.

[Tywin Lannister]

I kept alive a slot that had half of the moron town voting it. I derailed the D1 lynch on the watcher. I correctly called that there was scum in a very small pool and A50 on replacing in trusted my judgement and shot 2 of them and killed 1 scum. Without me you'd have chain made shit lynches and lost. Yes, I wasn't positive who was the scum on my wagon but with TTTT and Peregrine playing like headless chickens I should have been able to lynch scum lynching any of them.

I'm not saying you were bad by any means, although I consider Almost as the one who carried town after you and FB were gone. My point is that your reads didn't work on 90% of town, not only because they were clueless (which was partly true), but because you didn't take a step back and give logic they couldn't deny. Not that the case on you had any merit, because it didn't, but that was kind of the point. There weren't any logical cases, because town didn't step up to use one. Almost had to straight up lie to get me lynched in the end, because nobody really came up with legit reasons to SR anyone. You're kind of doing the same here, and while I TR you for being consistent, I don't see it as helpful. We need to lynch scum, but I don't see any reason to SR drealmers over TR him, because railroaded town tend to get emo like he has, and you're definitely death tunneling him right now. Why? If it's for ego reasons, then that's against town's win con. If you legit have a SR on him, explain why, and then explain who his buddies could be and why you're currently overlooking them.

[Tywin Lannister]

By my count, I should be a pretty easy lynch today. horrordude, edo, Tywin, and Wheme have all expressed interest in seeing my slot dead (due to claim or 'other'). I'm betting it wouldn't take much to get a few more votes over.

I'm not voting you, but you're a possibility. There's also a possibility you're telling the truth, so I'm going on a better bet in Wheme. He's not town. It's painful to see him continue like this and nobody cares.

[Tywin Lannister]

Miller claims should only be lynched Day 1 if they are the scummiest person on the planet. If you really are town, your reads and opinions on the game are as valid as anyone else's. Are you trying to speed up your lynch?

Miller claims, if the intent is to lynch them and get them out of the game, should only be lynched Day 1. After Day 1, there should be way more information to work with than backseating it and going for the paranoia lynch.

D1 lynches are almost always on town, because scum have their full team and pushback on any lynch in their group. If you think you're so easy to lynch that everyone would hop aboard, then that's a sign of town. Regardless, I'm not in the camp that believes anything other than scum has to be lynched D1, but your claim warrants looking at regardless. You just can't be around for Lylo if you haven't somehow conf-Towned yourself by flipping multiple scum. That is a possibility though. How good are your reads as town?

Aside from that, let's say we lynch you. Who do you SR? What are your reads? If town, then you should be giving them regardless. If scum, then you'd obviously not want to.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin how do you prevent that aside from having someone like me go full blown autocrat and power through lynches, and does that make you understand why I play autocrat in certain situations?

I completely understand the thought process of why you do it, but I just don't think it works. You can't force things people don't agree with. Either you level with them on their wavelength and change their opinion, or it doesn't work. Thats just my opinion though.

[Tywin Lannister]

Toogeloo: If I was scum hoping to push an easy town mislynch down the road, I'd be pegging Dreal or Wheme, barring them being my scum buddies, as the best choices. Its not hard to peg which players may hang themselves later, and if scum have daychat (which seems to be the current mod meta from almost every recent game I've completed), then that would be discussed too. Your name may be brought up, but the fact is that there are obv candidates that, if they were town and I was scum, would be the ones I'd keep around as long as possible. A Miller claim may be one of them, but only from the claim rather than the playstyle.

Here's my hangup with you: you're seemingly more interested in telling everyone why they should be the lynch and who looks town over whose scum and should be lynched, and if you are town, then advocating for your own over possible scum goes against win con. The optimal play is always to lynch scum, not get a known conf town (in this case, yourself if town) lynched. The only town player that's confirmed for me is myself. If you're town, then the same goes for you. So why would you advocate for your own lynch? This looks like a WIFOM mind game to me, and I don't like it.

Can anyone please answer my question about Wheme, since he won't answer any himself? Why do people TR this guy? His entire game consists of 'lol' 'this is a scum post' 'this is so baaaad' 'I'm a town PR' and 'naked vote:whoever is currently in the spotlight.' What am I missing here? This is scum 101 stuff. It's not advanced, but he never claimed to be. Town 101 looks different than this.

[Tywin Lannister]

EBWOP: Why you* should be the lynch, etc etc.

You're stance seems to come from someone that knows they won't be lynched (maybe because your buddies wouldn't allow it), but you're throwing it out there to do it now or never, and giving WIFOM reasons for why a vigi shouldn't shoot you, town should lynch you down the road, and today is the only possibility. You say all that without giving SRs (aside from mentioning suspicions of me and horror) and not acting as if you will be lynched regardless. You've also made posts stating how you're the easy lynchbait and it's pure AtE. If scum, it's obvious to me what you're playing. My hangup is if you're town, then wtf are you doing?

[Tywin Lannister]

I give up typos galore from this phone.

[Tywin Lannister]

I also think Toog is town.

Tywin and alban are the only ones really pinging me in this game.

Well I'm not scum and won't be lynched if/when I'm forced to claim, so all I can say is you may be half right.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin, i am fairly confident that you won't gather enough traction to lynch me. More or less the same reasons that you mention about yourself. So, i am not gonna defend myself. But i was wondering about what you said about knowing me. Have we played in a game where I was a scum? Which behaviour of mine reminded you of the scum!me?

Farside, yes, i agree that all games start like this. And many games continue like this. But I am old school. Few days ago, i read a post from an old timer on one of the topics, that how the main difference between earlier games/players and those of today, is absence of lengthy wall posts, as a result of which how common it is now a days to find games going for 100+ pages.

Even before reading that, I was tired of this play style, where you wake up and the game has suddenly gone ahead by 10 pages. I can't deal with it. Which is why my replace out rate is high. But in all my games now a days, I try to point this out, and hope that someone listens. In this game for example, i like the way tywin writes. His posts are few, lengthy and high on synthesis. Not a torrent of thoughts that go nowhere.

One of the few games where lengthy, wall posts were practised was my newbie game (forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=65590). I never found it again if memory serves right.

There is an attention span issue that occurs that when wall posts are written, they are unread. It makes me generally not write them anymore.

Ditto, or at least I try not to anymore. It's natural for me to say more than say less, but I always realize nobody reads my walls except maybe scum trying to pin a case on me. Town almost never do, unless they're the wall post-types themselves, which is a minority of players.

[Tywin Lannister]

So if Wheme is town, he may have a point about toogeloo. I don't see them as partners at the very least, and my thoughts are that because they're both SRs right now, flipping the right one will confirm the other, assuming one is scum. If they're both town, then it's not gonna work, but I only have a select few real SRs thus far, and the rest look townie enough to not be in my lynch pool. My dilemma is picking which one, and based on play alone, I still think it's Wheme. The real difference to think opposite of that is the tone and the way Wheme is pushing toogeloo, while toogeloo pushes absolutely nobody. Town don't sit back doing nothing like toogeloo has. His entire game has been based on a WIFOM claim where either he's the D1 lynch or never gets lynched/vigi shot ever again, yet he's not worried about being lynched, doesn't push his scum reads (the two that he even mentioned, and he didn't say scum, just 'suspicious'), and he isn't playing for win con if town. He doesn't strike me as a clueless or bad player either, since his entire argument is based on making the optimal lynches for each day. Therefore, Wheme gets town points and toogeloo does not.

I just can't shake the feeling that Wheme is scum, but if toogeloo calls him town, then I'll probably be moving to toogeloo. A scum toogeloo flip will confirm Wheme is town IMO. On the flip side though, what scum would claim Miller on D1? That's a pretty big gamble IMO. It would have to be a calculated move.

[Tywin Lannister]

I could also move on Alban once I get into this game and actually ISO him, but I haven't yet and won't vote without a case. PeregrinV doesn't look scummy enough for me to join that wagon. I don't see it yet.

[Tywin Lannister]

I can't tell if you are trying to hold me to a higher standard because of my claim, or if you are just trying to keep me sullied because of it. This is how I play mafia, and it hasn't changed in over a decade. I don't headline, I support. I town read first, and scum hunt second.

Since you're scum reading me, and would love to OMGUS apparently if I had voted you could sheep, apparently you're way of gaining reads aren't 100% accurate. If you're this experienced, then you should understand my suspicions on you and where I'm going with it. Town tend to play a certain way, and scum tend to play a certain way, and the outliers either get solved with past meta or they're just a minority type that doesn't really affect the general consensus. You're play doesn't feel like town to me anymore than Wheme's does, but Wheme IS pushing you. You are NOT pushing Dunnestral. Big difference.

Also, I called you out when you voted him, because you claim Miller, but then say 'this guy claims he's not town! Super scum!' It's hypocritical at best, and the reason is that a town player claiming Miller means town should trust them off of what... the fact that most scum wouldn't claim Miller. On the flip side, what scum would claim they aren't town on D1? That just doesn't happen, and there's FAR less of a chance of Dunn being scum claiming third party than you being scum claiming Miller. Any investigation on you fails than. Any on them does not. Your ONLY push was weak af and was a placeholder vote to begin with, but it was on a player that frankly doesn't look like scum. IMO, the only reason you'd choose him over anyone else in the game is because he looked like an easy target that a scum with only fake reads could latch onto. That's it. Your other reads didn't even call anyone scum, but then you claim you'd LOVE to vote me if others would do the work for you. You're scummier and scummier with every post, but I've been trying to give you a chance to explain yourself. Unlike Wheme, I interact with my reads just in case I'm wrong, which is always possible. Your responses have not been the kind of expect from town though, and your overall play outside of your responses to my questions/statements has been lacking substance imo. It doesn't look like town.

Hell, even when I asked for reads, you gave a couple TRs and then said 'Tywin and horror look suspicious.' You didn't even call us scum. What the hell is that about? Dunn wasn't called scum either. So you're not scum hunting, have no scum reads, have like two or three town reads, and claim everyone else is so completely null that you can't be bothered to comment.

I'll ISO you when I get home from work, and my guess is I'll be voting you unless you change my mind for some reason. Telling me you wish you could OMGUS vote me by following the crowd like normal scum would isn't going to do it.

[Tywin Lannister]

Jesus typos. Your* not you're. Votes not voted. Etc. I hate autocorrect.

[Tywin Lannister]

In my last game with toog, he also was kind of same way he was here and got pressured for it.
He was a mason.

And basically had to out the other mason as a result.

Wel he already claimed Miller, so why can't he claim his full role? If all the mod PM'd him was verbatim 'Miller,' then he got trolled.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hell, even when I asked for reads, you gave a couple TRs and then said 'Tywin and horror look suspicious.' You didn't even call us scum

It's Day 1. I don't ever say some one is "scum" on Day 1.

Ever...

Cast away your bias. Miller claim aside, would you be as critical of my play?

Essentially, yes. The Miller claim is secondary to my SR based on your play. This may be because I don't know your meta and SR your playstyle when I wouldn't if I had played with you before, but I haven't. It's why I SR Wheme too.

[Tywin Lannister]

The aggression believe it or not is more scum tendency then town for peregrine.

I don't believe it.

In every game I've played, people SR aggression on this site over those doing absolutely nothing. I've never understood why. It's a fallacy in logic and basic gameplay imo. There are plenty of aggressive scum, but there are even more lurker scum who do absolutely nothing and try to slide by everyday not being noticed. People don't care and don't pay attention to it, but it's a constant in almost every single game on this site, from newbie to large theme games. People have weird ways of reading players, because it's usually wrong, but they never learn from it.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'd agree with the PeregrinV assessments that people like farside brought up (they're town too), but I'm inherently suspicious of any large D1 wagons. They're usually wrong.

Thing is... RC unvoting an L1 player they call scum means something important. If PeregrinV flips town, it means RC wanted off the wagon to not get shit for the inevitable 'scum pushed PeregrinV' argument. That's a given, and he knows that him unvoting gives the excuse to say 'not me, I unvoted him, you all are the real scum!' There's also the chance that if PeregrinV flips scum, RC was his buddy hoping to derail his fake early bus (which he'd do for TCred, but not to actually have the lynch go through today). He'd use the info down the line to say he was the first to call PeregrinV scum, even though he didn't push it through to the lynch.

Both options lead me to look at RC as possible scum here. Toogeloo is also an option, and both of these players hoping to push FB is just fake. FB isn't causing drama and that's obvious. These are manufactured reads/narratives that aren't actually true. FB isn't scum here folks. Not in my opinion.

So I'm okay with flipping PeregrinV to get a better read on RC, but the optimal play is actually to flip RC himself. There's enough connections and vote patterns to deduce multiple things from his flip, and frankly, I think he will flip scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

fuck no

Fuck no you're not scum, or fuck no you'd not do what I laid out as scum? I mean, if nobody called that out, it's a very good move for scum you to make regardless of PeregrinV's alignment. We both know you'd do something like that if you thought you'd get away with it.

What really made me suspicious was the move onto FB and then toogeloo hoping to join it. It looks fake. Dread looked fake too, but I wrote it off as an ego clash. This isn't that anymore, and you've moved to three people now whom you've called sure scum, but unvoted the one whose about to be lynched. Why? If he's sure scum, why aren't you still on his wagon? It's the one with a good chance of going through.

I think the reasons are obvious. You're scum and hoping to either get off a town mislynch while the getting's good (while knowing town will still lynch the slot without you), or he's your scum buddy whom you and toogeloo hope to derail his lynch now that it's a little too close to comfort.

That's how I see it. What are the town reasons for you leaving a sure lynch of someone you call sure scum? Why would you ever move off a sure SRs wagon when it's L1 if you are town? Simple answer is you wouldn't. Ever.

[Tywin Lannister]

That's how I see it. What are the town reasons for you leaving a sure lynch of someone you call sure scum? Why would you ever move off a sure SRs wagon when it's L1 if you are town? Simple answer is you wouldn't. Ever.

I have done this so many times that it's hardly worth discussing

Aka you won't discuss it, because there's no answer. No town would EVER move off an L1 wagon they thought was sure scum, while still calling them sure scum, to vote someone with no chance of being lynched. No townie would do that unless they had doubts about their SR, and you doubled down.

If town, then try explaining it to me. Otherwise, you're now my top SR. The logic behind it is way too strong to not see this is completely unlike anything town would do.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hello farside. I take it you're new around here. Let me catch you up to speed. My 'fear mongering' as you call me speaking what scum do and why is almost always correct. Literally, my reads are usually right. because instead of being useless and saying 'their tone that I can't hear in written words sounds off when I read it in my head' or 'this is a scummy post, because idk wtf I'm talking about' or 'I'm so lost, let's just sheep the largest wagon that's clearly not on scum because scum don't bus D1.' See, I actually know how to play.

RC is scum, and farside ignoring my post to call it fear mongering is also a scum tactic. That's called discrediting the player rather than addressing the post or anything in it. Farside, did you just see what I did? I EXPLAINED why I now SR you. You say fear mongering as if that means absolutely anything in this game. Wtf is fear mongering when the point is to catch scum? Scum do things constantly, and it's not difficult to see what those things are if you have any experience playing.

Let me walk you through this, since I think you're still just bad town: explain why you said fear mongering, explain what was scummy about anything I said, and explain why you dislike me going after RC here? This is obvious to me. Him unvoting someone he calls scum is NEVER a town move. Never. Ever. It's so far outside of being town, that only scum would defend it. Watch and see.

As for you RC: you're deflecting. Stop. Answer my questions. I don't care what you do in other games. I care about this one. It means you're scum, and I will get you lynched for it, even if I have to drag plenty of clueless town with me into the mud to do it. Ive given you multiple chances to answer my question, which is a VERY simple one, but you've refused. It's plain as day that you aren't town.

VOTE: RadiamCowbells

[Tywin Lannister]

I now have multiple associations I can go to after RC flips scum. This games gonna be a cakewalk once the first big lynch goes through. Question is, will bad town let it, or will they remain clueless like in every game? RC says he never gets lynched as scum, so I have my work cut out for me.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hello farside. I take it you're new around here. Let me catch you up to speed. My 'fear mongering' as you call me speaking what scum do and why is almost always correct. Literally, my reads are usually right. because instead of being useless and saying 'their tone that I can't hear in written words sounds off when I read it in my head' or 'this is a scummy post, because idk wtf I'm talking about' or 'I'm so lost, let's just sheep the largest wagon that's clearly not on scum because scum don't bus D1.' See, I actually know how to play.

RC is scum, and farside ignoring my post to call it fear mongering is also a scum tactic. That's called discrediting the player rather than addressing the post or anything in it. Farside, did you just see what I did? I EXPLAINED why I now SR you. You say fear mongering as if that means absolutely anything in this game. Wtf is fear mongering when the point is to catch scum? Scum do things constantly, and it's not difficult to see what those things are if you have any experience playing.

Let me walk you through this, since I think you're still just bad town: explain why you said fear mongering, explain what was scummy about anything I said, and explain why you dislike me going after RC here? This is obvious to me. Him unvoting someone he calls scum is NEVER a town move. Never. Ever. It's so far outside of being town, that only scum would defend it. Watch and see.

As for you RC: you're deflecting. Stop. Answer my questions. I don't care what you do in other games. I care about this one. It means you're scum, and I will get you lynched for it, even if I have to drag plenty of clueless town with me into the mud to do it. Ive given you multiple chances to answer my question, which is a VERY simple one, but you've refused. It's plain as day that you aren't town.

VOTE: RadiamCowbells

I stopped reading after you accused me of being new
Let me embrace that for a moment here.

*wipes tears away*

I'm going to act like your new for a second here.
Do you know on average how dumb a player can be around here.
I don't mean it like a nasty thing but in a seriousness I have seen bad/dumb town moments that make zero fucking sense as for as thinking goes, compared to scum who worry more about how they are perceived.

Here's my issue with your stance.
Either way you put rc as scum for something that is pretty NAI around here and made a theory more then fact.
Theory doesn't cut it for me.
You can call me scum or bad town, or whatever floats your boat but I'll tell anyone and everyone that your storytelling a case and call you scum for doing so.

The fact that your rather lynch him over Pere is more telling.

Since you clearly can't read when I or others use sarcasm, let me rephrase everything in a way maybe you can read, and if it's still impossible for you, then I suspect it's due to being stricken with scum blindness. It's okay, it happens to us all every so many games. The remedy is to get lynched of course, and then you'll be a happy, all-seeing townie once again! In the meantime, here's some Braille for you to read:

1. Why do you think RC would unvote a 100% sure scum (according to him) that's about to be lynched to move his vote over to someone that has no chance of it, if RC was town? 1a: can you explain any town logic for doing that?

2. What about me going after RC for his scummy play made you flip out and SR me in his defense?

3. What does fear mongering have anything to do with scum hunting, and why did you ignore my entire argument to hand wave it away with a buzzword that holds no meaning? You know this is called discrediting on Mafia 101, right?

4. Why do you deflect from actual discussion by discrediting rather than entering it honestly? 4a) What is town about doing that, and can you give any examples of how town tend to deflect, distract, and discredit players over actually discussing their case? 4b: Can you prove that this isn't, without a doubt, one of the top scum tells in Mafia? 4d: what would you define RC's responses to my questions as? Is it deflection when he refuses to answer, or is it a super town thing to do?


To answer your own questions: I'm fully aware of how dumb people can be. I am also always aware of who the better players are in each game, especially their scum games. I know these things because even when it's usually obvious, those players tend to make the optimal moves as scum. This is more scum 101 by the book stuff. RC is a very smart player, so him unvoting his top SR when it's about to flip should tell you a hell of a lot, especially when he doubles down on calling the slot scum. If it doesn't tell you anything, then frankly, I'm at a loss as to what's left for us to discuss. It's obvious stuff here, and I think you see it. Not mentioning it is what bothers me the most.

The fact that RC started the wagon on Pere, calls Pere 'sure scum' and then unvotes that wagon to go on FB is more telling. I actually notice things like that. Pere's wagon gained too many votes far too quickly for it not to be scum driven. Sarcasm aside, you aren't new, so you SHOULD recognize that fact. D1 quicklynches are almost ALWAYS wrong. Again, acting like you don't know this fact tells me a lot about your alignment. Otherwise, I have no choice but to assume bad/clueless/disengaged town.

I don't mean it as you're a bad player or even bad at playing town. I think the opposite actually. I mean it as you aren't paying attention to things if town.

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin if I were scum you'd be my bitch ok

Hahaha oh you wish. You saw my scum game (like a day of it before bitching out) so thank Almost50 for that win you didn't get as a replacee

[Tywin Lannister]

Good old smack talking scum, deflecting away from legitimate points. Never see that ever happen in mafia, right far side?

[Tywin Lannister]

Happy Easter tomorrow everyone.

Side note: I don't think pv is scum, but whatever. If he flips scum, then that's good. If so, then who are his scum buddies? You could say me, since I'm the only one saying he's not, but I know I'm not scum. Dreal could be, but I doubt it. So who else is against his lynch? If nobody is, then scum are on his wagon. It's a pretty simple deduction to make. It just takes actually paying attention.

When he flips town like almost every quick D1 wagon does, especially without a viable counter wagon, then maybe I'll be listened to. If not, then I can't be blamed when town loses due to refusal to notice basic mafia gameplay.

Maybe I'll be NK' d and not have to care, because I can tell this game is going to be frustrating. Time will tell.

The questions town should be asking though is what is the actual case on PV, is it legit, why are people voting him, what are his possible scum buddies doing since there's no counter wagon in sight, and do all of you legit believe town are this smart to unanimously lynch sun on D1 when the scum team is at full strength? All of these questions should be answered, but nobody seems to care enough to even ask them, let alone force anyone to answer. Therefore, this wagon is clearly a mislynch imo.

[Tywin Lannister]

Not that kind of aggression necessarily - I've never seen you take initiative or get defensive as town

VOTE: Toogeloo
He has not been anything close to impressive I haven't liked his play and its miller so bonus for me

Do you think Wheme is bussing me (since last I recall he was a big scum read of yours too)? What do you think of Firebringer's noise posts that also constitute practically nothing to the game? What do you think of PV who hasn't really flinched at being at L-1?

There's probably no way I'm voting for RC or dreal today unless it's me or one of them.

My current scum leans are...

PV (

strong

)

- This seems like his typical scum play of hand waving suspicion and riding it out waiting for a momentum shift.

Firebringer (

semi-strong

)

- high post count noise that amounts to very little content.

Tywin (

semi-strong

)

- Fear mongering and fabricated cases.

Dunnstral (

semi-weak

)

- mostly just due to lurking with content being fairly weak.

Wheme (

semi-weak

)

- mostly just due to lurking with content being fairly weak. (

inb4omgus

)

Edo (

weak

)

- weak content thus far.

horrordude (

weak

)

- weak content thus far.

Our main issue currently is too many vanity wagons with no active pushing on those singular voters. Abandon the crusade if it's not going anywhere and compromise elsewhere, please.

Someone looks to be following me.
I need a shower I feel dirty.

Toogeloo: how is pv hand waving things away?

unvote

I think far side's reads are all wrong in a very big way. If this is how they truly read players, then either they're sure scum making fake reads up, or they're a huge liability to town. They're so bad that I question how we're reading the same game. Remember this after we get flips that show I'm right. Some town leader needs to bookmark this read list. When far side flips scum, go after all those she failed to mention and defended without cause or reason. It's going to be a game silver. Mark my words.

[Tywin Lannister]

Solver

[Tywin Lannister]

I'd compromise on RC to lynch far side. There's actually a good chance that far side is buddying RC here, because she's scum and knows alignments. There's far less a chance that far side is legit town. RC is harder to read due to his eratic and generally anti-town behavior, but far side is clearly not reading the game from a town perspective. Its pretty obvious to me.

[Tywin Lannister]

Me either. Can we move our votes to scum yet? Its so cliche to lynch town on D1. Let's shake things up. Make em work for it for once. Just move your vote to scum and watch them flail onto a bad counterwagon. Any townies wanna lynch scum with me? I promise to give you all the credit and nominate you for a scummy. You know you want one.

[Tywin Lannister]

I have medium size d, how would that work in text format?

8===D

[Tywin Lannister]

8===D~~ (^-_-^) (^ -_-) ( ^ ) (^ ^) ( ^ ) (-_- ^) (^-_-^) ~~d==8

[Tywin Lannister]

Edo gets it.

[Tywin Lannister]

I'd be happy to bypass everyone and lynch Alban

[Tywin Lannister]

Idc which scum gets the noose as long as one of them does. Pere isny scum because the fast wagon and no legit counter.

[Tywin Lannister]

@Tywin
Between farside and alban, who is more scum?

I'm really not sure. Far side I just disagree with on basically everything, but that doesn't have to mean they're scum. They're still a SR, but I don't have a great case to push.

Alban has just made scummy posts non-stop, but I'd need to iso him to get a grasp on making a case. He's been an odd man out mainly the entire game from how it feels to me though, and he's definitely a gut read.

Regardless, I don't see pere being scum when there's no counter wagon and he was the first real wagon to begin with, not counting drealmerz and the ego clash from red.

I haven't been totally invested yet to make cases worth typing, but I have pretty decent TRs, which means my pool narrows a lot toward a few specific players. Alban and far side are both in that look.

If I had to guess though, Alban is the better bet, and it bypasses all the back and forth drama that's been going on.
Either way, I don't see pere as being scum when there's no real counter wagon on anyone and pere

[Tywin Lannister]

Ego clash from RVS* etc etc typos

[Tywin Lannister]

Looks like Tywin is ignoring me.

Anyone who has a definitive town read on Tywin, could you explain why?

Why would I be ignoring you? I'm not on purpose, but am I supposed to care that you OMGUS voted me after I called you scum, or is it because literally the only time you ever post is when someone calls you scum? You're obvious, and its kind of pathetic

[Tywin Lannister]

I really think Drealmerz7 is scum her.e

What a shocking turn of events!

[Tywin Lannister]

Although I'm kinda not even against a PL of dreamelrz at this point. I'm tired of him saying the same things and not playing the game.

[Tywin Lannister]

Null town.
I think one of alban and tywin are scum and I think it's alban.

I think I said this like ten pages ago

I agree that Alban is scum. I also said it like 10 pages ago.

And literally, he proved my point and even quoted it. He only posts when scum read, and he only SRs those that SR him first.

Is Alban well known to be bad scum?

Anyway, since nobody will lynch far side or RC, I'm moving my vote to the SR that is possible to lynch. Good thing all the people I TR calls Alban scum, and all those I've SR calls him town. This game is hilarious.

VOTE: Alban

[Tywin Lannister]

Oh wtf he got replaced? Fine I'll catch up.

[Tywin Lannister]

So after reading the first pages after fire/dreal thing I'm leaning scum on Farside and Tywin

Based on what? You realize far side and I SR each other, right? So you think we are bussing, or do you just not read the game and throw out named randomly? Good thing I still SR you.

[Tywin Lannister]

This is my egopost, I'll join once I'm done work today

Was Alban scum?

Please refrain from discussing ongoing games.

Read his posts.

Seriously though, his only posts came when he was called scum, and then he would call those players scum. Then whine a bit, then lurk a bit, then post again when someone else called him scum.

Then when multiple people called him scum, he randomly out?

I'll let Aristotle clear explain why Alban did what he did, or try to, but I'm pretty damn sure that's a scum slot. Alban def would replace out when SR as scum without warning.

Let's see what Aristotle does though.

[Tywin Lannister]

Randomly replaced* out.

[Tywin Lannister]

alban/Aristo, farside, Horror/Fitz (because they were replaced)

You won't lynch a spot simply because they replaced? If a scummy player rages hard enough and then asks for a replacement, does that get them off scott free for the day to you?

So you SR the Alban slot, right?

[Tywin Lannister]

Idk I TR horror before and TR fitz now. He's doing his usual town play, for whatever thats worth,and nothing hes said looks scummy. People are just throwing out names without reason

[Tywin Lannister]

I don't really care. At all. If RC is town and would rather lose the game for his ego, then I'll just place him in my PL category for future games and move on. No skin off my back. If dreal is scum and RC is correct, then he is still unable to explain why, so he's still useless. Having correct reads as town means nothing if you can't explain them, and RC can't explain his dreal read aside from ego. Dreal is doing the same thing too, because RC isn't going to get lynched today with players like wheme brownnosing him. Some things gotta give, but idc if that's a NL. I vote scum to win, nothing more, nothing less. If I'm scum, I vote whoever is best for me to win as scum. Same deal. Voting for ego reasons is ridiculous imo, and then only compromise id make here is a PL only if its the best way for town to win. If I was scum and RC town, I'd probably sheep him like Wheme, because it's easy and blameless.

Do what you want, but I don't SR dreal, and RC pushing bad lynches looks like a scum play over town. Dreal OMGUS voting doesn't help his case at all either though. If it comes down to it though, ill vote off RC over drealmerz to get then game back on track.

My $0.02

[Tywin Lannister]

I am apart of the RC sheep association, please notify me in this game thread if you want to join it. What we do is sheep RC and RC leads us to victory.

This game thread? That's an awkward way to verbalize things. What other thread are you in? Perhaps... the scum thread?

Hmm

[Tywin Lannister]

If you guys think that scum forces a NL here rather than lynching town then you're insane.

So then all of us that don't care are town by your own words. Thanks

[Tywin Lannister]

Nice naked vote dunn. Will lynch you eventually. No worries homie.

[Tywin Lannister]

Why the fuck are we discussing what a bard does when that doesn't matter for whether dreal is town or scum?

Make a case or just admit you're sheeping a shit wagon and be done with it. Not like you'll be lynched today when nobody cares to vote scum.

[Tywin Lannister]

Why the fuck are we discussing what a bard does when that doesn't matter for whether dreal is town or scum?

Make a case or just admit you're sheeping a shit wagon and be done with it. Not like you'll be lynched today when nobody cares to vote scum.

You do realize you're not voting scum, right?

Sure, I'm wheeling a crappy wagon. But it's close to deadline and I'd rather we progress the game than sit here doing nothing!

And all I see is a Bard claim. No race. No note that he has Inspiration, nothing to make me believe anything but "I'm a bard" which is NAI.

So please, tell me how I can do better with my vote!

If I thought i wasny voting scum, then I wouldn't be voting you. The only reason I see to lynch dreal at this point is to end the RC/dreal shit show and move the game forward, but its pretty damn apparent to anyone paying attention that dreal is town. Scum don't get lynched D1. RC is the other PL option and gets zero votes for doing absolutely nothing but whining about his ego. RC is the far better bet if you actually are town and want to lynch scum. Dreal getting wagoned so easily while RC' s play gets ignored shows all you need to see if you pay attention. The better lynch is RC here, but I don't see anyone moving to him. Do you?

Do you know you're voting town, right?

[Tywin Lannister]

VOTE: Wheme

Skimmed through Tywin's ISO and it seems OK at first glance. He also seems to SR Wheme and TR Elena.

I'm glad you replaced in. I like this vote. Yay we have a town bloc, even though I SR your slot when it was Far Side, I can't see dreal being scum here. Too many votes came too easily without reason.

You do know that far side SR me too before you took over, right? I SR them for their defense of RC while going after dreal, because it looked fake, among other things. If you are scum though, you won't be lynched today anyways, and I didn't see any connections between dreal/far side to think this is a scum counterwagon. I'm good with it, since I SR Wheme originally anyway.

VOTE: wheme

Let's make this counterwagon work.

[Tywin Lannister]

1 hour left. Let's see who wants a NL to protect Wheme.