Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[Caryatid]

What are all your predictions for scum?!?!?!

Ahsoka Tano, Polar Vortex, Prism

[Caryatid]

Do you think that scum put less thought and discussion into what they're going to claim than town?

[Caryatid]

{Prism} Happy Birthday, Prism!
{Spiffeh}
{Heartless}
{NoticeMeSenpai}
{camn, kmd4390}
{Imperium}
{VNB National Plan}
{MaxwellPuckett, Polar Vortex}
{Ahsoka Tano, Ginngie}
{}
{}

I think. Was thinking about voting Ginngie before I went out for a walk and I'm still feeling it.

VOTE: Ginngie

~ I was thinking about loving Ginngie before I went out to do my laundry and I'm still feeling it. ~

[Caryatid]

Join us, Spiffeh!

[Caryatid]

Hi people!
Why am I already on people's lists of scum of I have not posted here yet?

bc alts are scum

duh

How did you know?

Either the experience requirement for this game, or the fact that your e-mail is listed publically so we know who you are.

[Caryatid]

Oh...

You can change it here I think "Users can contact me by email" -> No

[Caryatid]

Camn, babe, there is only one vote I care about, it's mastina.

Also with the reads list thing, it struck me as odd and out of place cuz the beginning was literally just throwing out names.

Cards was literally an actual reads list with tiers and it's WAY too early to have that structured of a list

If you don't understand my reads, ask me about them.

[Caryatid]

If you don't understand my reads, ask me about them.

There's nothing to understand if you don't say anything. So get to talking

I get more out of it if others try to engage me on it or ask specific questions because I want to see if people are seeing what I do. I'll explain every tier when I'm on the computer after I make food but while I am phone posting you can ask about the one or two reads that bug you the most

[Caryatid]

If you don't understand my reads, ask me about them.

There's nothing to understand if you don't say anything. So get to talking

I get more out of it if others try to engage me on it or ask specific questions because I want to see if people are seeing what I do. I'll explain every tier when I'm on the computer after I make food but while I am phone posting you can ask about the one or two reads that bug you the most

your choice

Prism is the read I feel most strongly about. I didn't agree with their push on NoticeMeSenpai but I liked the early depth to their read there and I think it came from a genuine place. Their reaction to your push also felt really town to me.




Pedit : nacho I see your questions and I will reply to on the computer because I can't do it concisely. Give me ten minutes or so

[Caryatid]

I'm headed to bed right now

Just when I get to the computer.

Sleep well, then!

[Caryatid]

@Caryatid: Can you explain your Prism and Ginngie placements respectively? I don't like how the only two people who'd done anything worth writing about at that stage are at opposite ends; it makes it look like you decided to take one person's side in a way that ends up looking cartoonishly planned.

I explained my Prism read in 217 but I started feeling bad about Ginngie early on. When she was talking about how she was scum and what she was saying in the scum PT it felt like she was being cheeky and it felt forced and I don't know why I reacted as strongly to it as I did but a lot of her early posting left a bad taste in my mouth and it didn't go away. I think because she didn't just make the joke once but she just kept on doing it in 50, and 79, and then self-voting in 127 in response to my reads list. I guess there were less posts about it than I thought, but it just felt too much at the time.

I couldn't understand Ginngie's push on Prism because it looked like Ginngie was twisting Prism's words when Prism got confused about double negatives, something that happens to me all the time I have to like count them on my fingers while reading a sentence to try to figure out what it means. The rest of the push was like yeah okay early sorting that's fine but just little pieces of it seemed to be propped up by misreadings and misrepresentations and at the time it felt more like pushing to push than pushing to understand, but this isn't the bulk of my read or where it started.

I'm listening to what you say about her meta and that does soften my read there a bit but I don't know, it just a lot of her early posting felt like she came out the gate with a goal of trying to get to get townread and her posts felt really over the top to me.

Gonna post this piecemeal in case you're still awake.

[Caryatid]

{Prism}
{Spiffeh}
{Heartless}
{NoticeMeSenpai}
{camn, kmd4390}
{Imperium}
{VNB National Plan}
{MaxwellPuckett, Polar Vortex}
{Ahsoka Tano, Ginngie}

Why was Spiffeh so high - the only thing he did was the "predict the scum" thing and I don't understand why that looks town at all. Was Heartless so high up for any reason other than "general engagement"? Why did you like KMD's entry?

Mostly on the same page with NMS right now; I didn't like Ahsoka Tano's vote on camn when it came and so right now they're more of a person of interest for me than they are for you.

Spiffeh was so high because I really liked his opening and I think the "predict the scum" thing, while silly, is something I'll want to look back on later in the game once we have some flips because I do think scum would answer that differently than town would. Unfortunately, he's done literally nothing since then, so probably I jumped the gun there. I liked his entrance though.

Heartless was a townlean because I liked Anti's tone. I'm trying not to use meta this game but I liked his entrance more than I didn't.

I like that kmd came out of the gate scumhunting, so I put it in the "null but is doing things" tier. That tier is just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's the middle of the night in their time zone" tier (you), just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's daytime in their time zone" (Shadowphant). I originally had fewer tiers but I kept finding I did feel a little bit more strongly about one person than another.

[Caryatid]

As for the people Nacho didn't ask me about:

NoticeMeSenpai - I didn't mind their opening and I liked that Jae was taking point because I think of the two that Mastina is the more confident scum player. Other people seem to think it was Mastina posting so ??? But even if it was Mastina posting, I don't mind the entrance. I just like it better if it was Jae.

Max and Polar were in the "has posted but isn't doing anything" tier.

Ahsoka's entrance sucked. At that time she only had the one post where she wanted to know why people were scumreading her when she hadn't posted. But since then it just seems like she's having trouble getting her feet and she is the sort of player who has trouble getting her feet as scum so I don't like it.

[Caryatid]

And the reason I had two empty {} at the bottom was to give an indicator of the strength of my reads because people often see the bottom of a readslist as being super serious even if it's page 6 and a few people haven't posted yet.

[Caryatid]

Ginngie
Camn

:hopeful:
NoticeMeSenpai


KMD
Cary
Ahsoka
Spiffeh

Can you talk to me about Camn? I don't really have anything there at all. I see that she's doing stuff and I don't mind what she's doing but she's fooled me before and she's not in the class of players that I give townreads to for "doing stuff," she's more "buddy until I have a read and then 180 before I get nightkilled" tier so yeah ok camn's town

The way I feel about camn is that I really liked 118 because it made me laugh and it was off the cuff and cute and I liked her push on Ginngie at first and then in 180 she was talking about awareness and it struck me as odd because I think in general as scum it's easier to have a better awareness of the game state than as town and you have more information to work with, so I feel just about the opposite about situation awareness as camn seems to :/ but her longer explanation in 182 was okay? If it's about nervousness and misreading the town and way her actions would come off to this playerlist then that's a different thing from whta I thought it was and it resonates.

I just want to think about her some more before I have a real read but if you have something, I want to hear it.

[Caryatid]

camn
Imperium
Polar Vortex
Ginngie
Prism
VNB National Plan
Ahsoka Tano
MaxwellPuckett
Heartless
Caryatid
Kmd4390
Spiffeh

Can you talk to me about Polar Vortex? What do you like about them in particular? Why do you have them so high?

Why is Heartless so low?

[Caryatid]

VOTE: Spiffeh

L-2

[Caryatid]

Aaaaaaaah Janis Ian is the best

~ I knowwwwwwwwww ~

[Caryatid]

Which of your posts did you expect a response from him to?

[Caryatid]

Hey all Ill get into this soon, been pretty damn sick
Ahsokas posting hasn't improved but w the consistent weirdness im not sure if i find it AI anymore

What do you mean by consistent weirdness?

Being sick sucks; I'm sick too. Feel better soon!

[Caryatid]

Did a nice, quick reread of the game. I missed a lot my first look through.

@Notice:

Why's camn a hard TR for you? The fact you gave it makes me feel better about you to begin with, but sell me on camn herself.

First off I was dead wrong to give Caryatid a drunk TR for #228. They weren't just spur of the moment reads (impression I remember getting, I was drunk sue me) but rather just rounding out explanations for the read list. Covering all of your bases isn't a towntell.

I'm just taking a "Wait and see" approach to Caryatid. Read on me I think is preemptive and strange (Is it implausible for me to make those mastina posts as scum?) The reads on Ginn and camn read pretty well (genuine) though.

I think that this approach from Gin stands out pretty radically from general approach and play in For Us; Tammy described her general approach there as "tiptoeing around a minefield" due to not really knowing how to approach mastina and me town and, while I'm sure her second attempt will be better than the first, I think that the way she goes weirdly aggressive towards Prism here is too far different from her weird hedge approach onto Lovebirds there for her to be a strong choice for scum here.

As an addendum, this mutual annoyance and talking past each other is deja vu. My interactions with Gin were basically exactly the same in camn's revenge and British Monarchy.

Going to shift to here for now:

VOTE: MaxwellPluckett

Runner up votes would be VNB and Polar (#156 describes more of

what scum is wary of doing

, rather than what they actually do)

People asked me questions so I answered them, both about what I was thinking at the time and how that had changed since then. I don't really know you but you seem to be a newer player (I just looked it up and you do have 11 completed games so you're not

really

a newbie but you're still newish) but I liked your entrance more than I liked other people's entrances.

Why don't you like VNB? Is it mainly for their push on Ahsoka or something else?

[Caryatid]

(I would link the uncensored version but, pretty sure it would be a little too much for certain delicate audience members.)

we're all adults here!

I honestly think that we may be dealing with a Heartless-Spiffeh scumteam, wildcards KMD/Caryatid for the third slot...and a very, very strong lean towards said third being KMD.

hmm, maybe, though I haven't minded Heartless' posting, but do you think Anti declares a secret scumread on his buddy here?

I think if they're town then it'll really shine through in their posting and if they're not then we'll know. Spiffeh's the one I'm more worried about slipping away.

I kinda sorta vaguely get the scumread on Ahsoka Tano and in fact to some extent saw it myself even without prompting.

But on the other hand.
I just actually really don't get the scumread on Ahsoka Tano at the same time?

Is this based on meta or something else?

Heartless is a terrible analogue for SAJ, and the rush to "Hey everyone let's remake the camn's revenge townbloc!" with close to 0 vetting is disturbing. (Ginn townread I can understand via meta, everyone else, not even close)

I was gonna ask what SAJ was but then I scrolled up and so now I'm going to ask what Secret Agent Jin is. (Please answer with like a sentence or two explaining the context rather than a link to something).

Mastina do you know why 317 makes me a little paranoid of you? But I like that you're pushing Spiffeh so I'm setting it aside for now but I just...want it noted...for postgame cred or something...that it was page 13 when I started worrying.

[Caryatid]

@Caryatid: SAJ is the name of a player. A scum player in the game 'camn's revenge', replaced by Katsuki while under pressure.
There is certainly gonna be a lot more meta talk in re: that game...so you might need to look it over if you wanna keep up.
Link: viewtopic.php?t=69902

Thanks, I'll keep that open in a browser tab! I don't see the relevance here then because nobody's being replaced? But it's okay, I don't have to understand everything. I don't think I can read 167 pages right now, so it really helps when people provide 1-2 sentence cliff notes of the point they are trying to make.

--

yay, nacho's here. hi nacho!

[Caryatid]

Spiffeh, I went through your ISO and is Imperium your only read?

[Caryatid]

Not just his only scumread, but there aren't any townreads either that I could find.

[Caryatid]

can't words today. will words later. reread some isos:



bye

[Caryatid]

[Caryatid]

Hi friends I am here!

[Caryatid]

it's good to see you!

[Caryatid]

Mastina do you know why 317 makes me a little paranoid of you?

No and I don't particularly care either.

I am town, I am never being mislynched, the scum may or may not nightkill me depending on whether they feel I am a respectable threat but if they do let me live they'll quickly regret it.

I feel like you'd care if you knew me but whatever. Somehow when I made this alt in my head it was all "escape from other people's unreasonable expectations about my abilities" and I completely forgot about the "escape from being a person who's taken seriously" half of that coin

But whatever.

NoticeMeSempai: Please get Jaereed on the line.

Not gonna happen. Jae's stance on this game is, and I quote: "These sure are words." Jae'd be able to tell you the full quote, but that was the part I remembered clearly. Jae doesn't have any stances and doesn't look like they will be getting any any time soon. They're here for moral support and if they do get reads will likely become more involved but right now they have nothing and that's not changing any time soon so you'll have to live with me.

I hope Jae's able to get their head into the game soon


pedit:

hello person who obviously knows me but i don't know them and it's kinda creeping me out

sorry anti. I think you will know soon enough. But short of alt slipping is there anything I can do to make it less creepy?

[Caryatid]

I was gonna ask what SAJ was but then I scrolled up and so now I'm going to ask what Secret Agent Jin is. (Please answer with like a sentence or two explaining the context rather than a link to something).

Adding to camn's link from earlier, SAJ was a scum that basically never posted. Most of the town bloc from camn's revenge, composed of Gin, Nacho, and Mastina, wanted him lynched, and when he did flip scum that basically solidified the bloc.

Thank you! That makes sense now!

I don't really know you but you seem to be a newer player (I just looked it up and you do have 11 completed games so you're not really a newbie but you're still newish) but I liked your entrance more than I liked other people's entrances.

Liking my entrance is good and swell but thinking of me as newish is definitely going to cause problems at some point. I've been playing for about 7 years. My playstyle needed some adjustment to the forum format but no one on MS has ever called me lacking. As for VNB just nothing about their posts have stood out to me.

When I first read this, what I wanted to say was that changes a lot if you're not a new; I saw you only had about 1600 in game posts and I hadn't played with you before so I thought that meant you were new but obviously I was wrong about that. That's what I would've said if I could've when I first read it, that okay I need to reread.

But since then I have reread your ISO with the knowledge that you aren't new and maybe I'm just biased towards your playstyle because I do like that you lay out points in a way that's easy for me to understand what you're saying and where you're coming from and maybe I'm mistaking "I can understand how they're looking at the game" with "town" but your writing feels like still, cold, lake water to me which is how I think of nacho's towngame in my head and I know you're not him but I just...can't scumread you, even with people saying you'd have the competence to write like this as town it's just all that blue and purple and green and the surface of the lake and the bridge that I didn't know it was a bridge when I was drawing it but it came out that way.

I wish I could communicate this in a way that someone else would have a hope of understanding but whatever. I'm doing my best to communicate, someone else can take a turn at doing their best to understand.

[Caryatid]

sorry anti. I think you will know soon enough. But short of alt slipping is there anything I can do to make it less creepy?

nah it's ok

also i might make ur doodle our new avy

<3

[Caryatid]

even with people saying you'd have the competence to write like this as SCUM

ebwop

[Caryatid]

Their reaction to your push also felt really town to me.

What about Prism's reaction to Gin's push was town? How do you think it might have looked if Prism was scum and thought that Gin's reasons for pushing were

[redacted]

?

I understand liking the depth in his read as much as you did if you thought he was a newbie, but he is definitely not a new player.

I don't know. I'm not very good at picking up on emotion in people I don't know but Prism felt legitimately frustrated. 103 took less than 2 minutes to read the post before it and respond to it with sarcasm. 91 seemed angry.

It felt like Ginngie was fighting about words when she was doing the double negative thing and twisting Prism's words and when you're scum it's easy to get sucked into that and try re-explaining and easy to let it go on too long.

You got quotes because a page of asking shit I've already answered is exactly what I didn't want.

It's hard to remember this is an option you can take, as scum, because "a page of answering shit I've already answered" is a page of easy busy work you can do to be a Helpful Member of the Town Who is Just Trying To Be Understood.

It's easy to go around in circles circling the drain and I don't know about Prism in particular but I just really liked the way they handled that.


I feel like I'm still not successfully explaining the part of this that's important to me. It's not that scum can't do what Prism did it's something else. There's just...a way...that I've seen a few different scum players including myself get caught up in semantics arguments and I liked the way Prism sidestepped the opportunity to get caught up in it here.

[Caryatid]

Anti, I did chop up the images into smaller ones with everyone separated out yesterday and I was going to use them individually when I talked to/about people if it was a bigger essay and now just a throwaway comment like this post is but it is probably going to be a while before I write an essay about your slot so I thought I'd save you the work. You'll still have to resize it though (and it will probably look better if the area outside the oval is black or transparent).

[Caryatid]

When she was talking about how she was scum and what she was saying in the scum PT it felt like she was being cheeky and it felt forced and I don't know why I reacted as strongly to it as I did but a lot of her early posting left a bad taste in my mouth and it didn't go away.

I think that a lot of people interpret someone overplaying a joke as something that's scummy but I don't really think that's necessarily true; in particular, I don't see how making awkward "I'm scum" jokes is scummy at all unless you think that she's freaking out and knows they look bad but can't stop and that obviously feels like a pretty big stretch.

So, I know you and mastina and some other people are townreading Ginngie and I want to trust you there because you seem to have a perspective that I don't and you seem to be able to understand what Ginngie's doing here, and I don't, and yesterday when I went to reread Ginngie's ISO I was really trying to understand what you were seeing, I really tried to come in with an open mind and put aside the bad taste in my mouth that her posting gave me when the game started and the result is...a lot of straight lines in different colours

It's not geling together into a coherent thing. I can't see whatever it is that you're seeing. I can't read her tone at all, it all sounds monotone in my head. Her posts feel like "haha just serious" not "haha just kidding" to me. You say that sometimes people overplay it and it's not scummy and sure I'll give you that but sometimes it is.

And reading her ISO makes me feel

[redacted]

because I can tell that I'm missing something. I can't always tell even that but sometimes I can and being able to tell that I'm missing something isn't enough to make me stop missing it, but I try to read it and it's just noise and I try to find meaning and there's just no signal at all in the noise and I could point at individual posts and ask for clarification but then it'll be okay now I understand 1 post and there are still 118 that I don't.

VOTE: Imperium

Meant to do this earlier

Spoiler:

Like there's this post where she's voting Spiffeh and she's townreading Imperium but Spiffeh votes Imperium and she posts a picture of a lady smiling and nodding her head so she likes Spiffeh's vote? what?

And I know I'm missing something, I know there's something obvious going over my head and knowing that doesn't tell me what it is or make me feel less like a moron and if it were just one or two posts going over my head then whatever, I'm going to miss stuff, it's not a big deal, but usually I can see where somebody is coming from, usually an ISO doesn't make me feel as awful as this one does. I can't phrase this in a way that anybody is going to find compelling because you're just going to say yeah, you're just being a moron, but.

[Caryatid]

Like there's this post where she's voting Spiffeh and she's townreading Imperium but Spiffeh votes Imperium and she posts a picture of a lady smiling and nodding her head so she likes Spiffeh's vote? what?

that's judge juddy disgusted gif >_>

she just looks smug and happy to me but admittedly i can't visualise a disgusted face so I'll take your word for it.

[Caryatid]

I couldn't understand Ginngie's push on Prism because it looked like Ginngie was twisting Prism's words when Prism got confused about double negatives,

This makes sense. I don't remember the double negatives confusion but I definitely can see why you'd dislike her early push on Prism just from the nature of it alone.

starts in 88, continues for the rest of the page, possibly onto the next.

I like that kmd came out of the gate scumhunting, so I put it in the "null but is doing things" tier.

Did you have an opinion on his scumhunting? What did you think of Heartless's and our perspectives on it?

I think that it was a fairly cookie cutter as you can see from all these little squares. His vote in his second post seemed like "well I disagree with you so here is a vote".

I think if there's a scum doctor flip at any point then that's going to look bad for him.

I like how the little cookie cutter shapes grew eyes at one point and started looking like people.

The colours of peoples names on this exercise were mostly indicative of "which is the sharpest crayon I noticed first" but I initially made his name green and then realised I didn't want his name to be green and so I scribbled in a few colours and did black over it and etched his name because etching is pretty. Maybe it means something that I didn't want his name to be green but this is still a null read for me. I read his posts and they just kind of wash over me. His later stuff -- after the part where you asked me this question -- seems less cookie cutter than his earlier stuff did? I think I need to be in a more languagey place than I am before I'll be ready to have a read there. For now I'm listening to what you're saying and taking it seriously but I want to get there on my own in my own way.


Also I re-ISOed you looking for "your perspective on kmd" and my search-string was kmd and I see you asking some questions of kmd and I see you putting him in your reads list but I don't see a perspective.

Heartless' opinion is in 294 and I can see the sniping accusation. I don't really understand the old-tells thing. By which I don't mean "I disagree with" I mean "I don't know which old tells are meant."

[Caryatid]

she was talking about awareness and it struck me as odd because I think in general as scum it's easier to have a better awareness of the game state than as town and you have more information to work with, so I feel just about the opposite about situation awareness as camn seems to :/

From my understanding, camn was making the argument that Ginngie was aware of the gamestate, regardless of her alignment, and her self-voting tactics didn't really make sense unless it was a nervous scum strategy - I'm not sure how then point you're making here plays into that.

I think scum players have better situational awareness than town players do. As town I'm all by my lonesome lost at sea like a ship far from shore with no sail with no oar with no compass for the journey. People are nice to me and I don't know if they are being nice because they are nice or because they are patting me on the back while winking at their buddies over my head. People are mean to me and I don't know if they are being mean because they want me to get upset so they can push me for being irrational or if they are being mean because they are lost like I am lost.

As scum, you're the waves, you're the storm, you are thor the thunder god and you decide where the lightning strikes. You see all the little boats lost at sea and you can shift the currents beneath them and push them apart or dash them into the rocks you know what's going on you have all the pieces...

Accusing someone of being aware is accusing them of being scum but she's saying she'd be aware if she were town but town aren't.

I get that camn is saying something different but to understand it I have to keep track of all the words she's using meaning different things than I mean when I think them and it's hard.

[Caryatid]

Heartless' opinion is in 294 and I can see the sniping accusation. I don't really understand the old-tells thing. By which I don't mean "I disagree with" I mean "I don't know which old tells are meant."

that was mostly referring to kmd's role fishing accusation (which... i don't think has ever actually caught scum but that's a "tell" that used to be thrown around ALL the time, thank god that's on the decline) but the whole "mastina wouldn't claim neg utility because VIG MIGHT SHOVE A SHOTGUN UP HER ASS" is another piece of old lore that doesn't have much applicability to practice.

long and short of it is that i don't think "prism jumped on something easy" narrative is very compelling and, ironically, i think THAT'S something easy scum probably jumped on

your description of his pushes and posting as "cookie cutter" is also very apt, even to his more recent posting

oh! I think I missed the rolefishing thing, but I think town role fish more often than scum do because scum don't want to be seen as rolefishing because that looks scummy and town are frustrated at not having all the pieces and frustrated at incomprehensible cryptic shit and "just spit it out already stop teasing us" but as scum you know a little more about the setup already so it's easier to figure out what all the hinting is about.

I don't think Prism's pushes have been easy either. Prism and Imperium are going to leap to assure me that they haven't been Impossible To Fake^TM either and sure but they're not just plodding around going after the easiest level 1 reading of the game either.

[Caryatid]

As town I'm all by my lonesome lost at sea like a ship far from shore with no sail with no oar with no compass for the journey.

You need to work on your towngame, friend

My towngame is pretty decent and I do manage to synergise with people sometimes, there are certain players in particular that I really love playing with and who I'm good at reading and it's great and then suddenly I wind up feeling lonely in a crowded room and I can't tell if people are laughing at me or not.

pedit: Drink some water, Tammy!

[Caryatid]

I hope your thumb gets better soon!

[Caryatid]

Can you talk to me about Camn?

It's pretty much entirely a meta read at this point (like Ginngie!), but I really like the feel of her push on Ginngie. I don't think she's really managed to ooze that easy confidence in the way she does there as scum and I'm not really sure she would back off the read in the same way as scum.

I'm sure I'll be able to put words to the feelings much better later on in the day, but as for now that's what the foundation of the read looks like.

ok, thanks. Her drawing ended up really self contained and structured but there are enough curves here that it's okay I think. I think I want to come back to her later. There are some little things that I like. I don't feel like she's buddying me in a bad way (but there's that voice in my head saying that's mitigated because this isn't a game where I'm going to get buddied.) I just...don't mind what she's doing here. It's not a locktown read it's more like "yeah okay this is good enough for now."


I'm unhappy with the glacial pace at which I'm managing to do this catchup but I don't know what to do about it.

[Caryatid]

I didn't expect a response to a specific post, I just think town!Nacho would do something to either explain his read on me or proactively sort me. He has done neither.

The things he did choose to talk about seem like busy work when considering he didn't even acknowledge his largest scum read, that has nothing to do with it being me.

I'm not really sure how you expected my approach on you to be proactive or even why you thought you were my biggest scumread when I had more fleshed out thoughts on pretty much everyone else in that list.

As far as my perspective goes on you right now, your early approach was underwhelming because you didn't really have interest in solving the game at all. Your current approach is fine because at least you're solving the game; I don't think that it's outside of your scumrange mostly because your focus has been so narrow. I didn't see the need to press you more proactively early because you weren't a top priority of mine (felt better about the other three on the list) and because you were aware you weren't doing anything (and so expected response from you is hitoshrug as opposed to indignation).

I could understand why you would call Spiffeh's posts after 391 gamesolving, but I don't understand why you call Spiffeh's posts up to 391 gamesolving. His focus was so narrow: all he did was call you scum and take lazy vague potshots at everyone else. At this point in the game, you were his only read and he had no opinions on whether anyone but you was town or scum. That's not sewing, that's just poking holes.

[Caryatid]

hmm, maybe, though I haven't minded Heartless' posting, but do you think Anti declares a secret scumread on his buddy here?

Yes.

oh

Well I liked interacting with him today anyway.

[Caryatid]

NoticeMeSempai: Please get Jaereed on the line.

Not gonna happen. Jae's stance on this game is, and I quote: "These sure are words." Jae'd be able to tell you the full quote, but that was the part I remembered clearly. Jae doesn't have any stances and doesn't look like they will be getting any any time soon. They're here for moral support and if they do get reads will likely become more involved but right now they have nothing and that's not changing any time soon so you'll have to live with me.

I love that song! I put some other of her lyrics in some of my other posts, too.

[Caryatid]

uh, not sure how it quoted 357 when I was trying to quote 727 but ok.

[Caryatid]

and part of why I was referencing that song is that it's like Spiffeh ran out of thread before the game got started, and I know he went out and got some new thread between page 17 (where I am in my catchup) and now but I'll talk about that in a bit.

[Caryatid]

Two issues I have with Carya so far, 1) Odd Progression on Spiffeh 2) All of #327.

Spiffeh gets slotted into the Carya's second-top slot for his entrance. Next time he's brought up:

Spiffeh was so high because I really liked his opening and I think the "predict the scum" thing, while silly, is something I'll want to look back on later in the game once we have some flips because I do think scum would answer that differently than town would. Unfortunately, he's done literally nothing since then, so probably I jumped the gun there. I liked his entrance though.

Okay, so he hasn't done much, that's a shame, but his entrance is still fine.

VOTE: Spiffeh L-2

Oh, okay. I guess this is for pressure, he hadn't done anything since 140ish at this point. Carya had just given an Ahsoka read that was really worth pushing before but again, okay sure. Next mention:

I think if they're town then it'll really shine through in their posting and if they're not then we'll know. Spiffeh's the one I'm more worried about slipping away.

This is a really strong feeling about Spiffeh, with no clear basis. He had posted plenty since their pressure vote but there's no critique of any of that content from Carya.

They do cite their lack of reads later in a followup, but Carya makes it clear that this is something they

just then

did at the time of posting in #352, making it an unlikely candidate for their emotion in #327.

It is true that a lot of my thoughts this game haven't been making their way into the thread. I've been doing a lot of reading and rereading and ISOing in between my posts but it's harder to make words happen when I'm sick and then yesterday it just wasn't happening at all, but in general I don't think people need minute by minute updates on how my reads are shifting around early on when things are pretty nebulous in my head. So, about my Spiffeh progression:

I liked his first post with the "guess the scumteam" thing because I do think scum and town will answer it differently from each other and that once we have a few scumflips it'll be interesting to look back on so a decent way to start the game. And then I didn't think about him again for a while because I like to do a very rough sort early on so I can get my footing and then once we have more to go on then I re-examine stuff (often when something happens in the thread that prompts me to do so), so he was "good enough for page 2" and then I focused elsewhere and stopped paying attention to him.

For what it's worth, I *still* like his entrance, but we're on page 30 now so if all I have on somebody is "i liked their post on page 1" then that's worrying.

What brought my attention back to Spiffeh was Imperium's post on him.

. Why was Spiffeh so high - the only thing he did was the "predict the scum" thing and I don't understand why that looks town at all.

Nacho's tone of voice there made me took it seriously, made me want to go an re-examine it. And Mastina had him at the bottom of her list too.

So I went back through his posts and started paying more attention to him and he didn't really do much after that entrance and his posts were pretty

[redacted]

and he wasn't scumhunting. The vote wasn't just for pressure; I think he has a decent chance of being scum.

And then the wagon happened on him and his response was basically all posturing and ego which is easy to fake as scum and underneath all the posturing there was nothing. No scumhunting just "you guys are all bad." So by the time we got to 327 I did have stronger feelings about him than when I first voted him. I feel like Bella is try to give him a pass for being lynchbait but he's not an incompetent scumplayer.

I want to talk about the picture I drew too, and I drew it before last night's catchup so it doesn't have any of the stuff I sorta-liked yet. but the grey is this underlying apathy and disdain for everybody when it's too early to be feeling that way and the red is simmering anger that seems out of place. The pink flower is trying to fluff post but there's this yucky dripping stuff and unpleasant swirling and it just encapsulates his "I'm going to try to sew toxicity and reap apathy" playstyle which I think is more likely to come from scum than not.


I like that he comes back and is more serious starting in 453 and starts contributing and stuff. It worries me that it took him that long to find his footing though. 19 pages. 3 days.

Also, can you go into detail on why you're scum reading me? From what I've read you've opted to take potshots on the sidelines (mostly having to do with my Imperium read) rather than actually engage with me if your problem is that I'm "doing nothing".

And it feels like he's accusing Ginngie of doing the same thing he's doing (taking potshots) and I know hypocrisy isn't a scumtell but there is a tactical use for hypocrisy where you accuse someone of what you're doing and then people can't call you on what you're doing because they'd just be parroting your words back to you and in people's minds it won't sound like an original point and I think Spiffeh knows it's scummy as shit to do nothing and snipe at people because he's been doing nothing and sniping at people.

He's not

wrong

about Ginngie here but that doesn't change my opinion. Though I like that he's finally branching out. His later argument with Ginngie about Biochemistry is something I'm having trouble following either side of and I think it's getting bogged down in semantics.

Why are you waiting for those people to post?
What happens when they do?

Tammy and TTH (and Antihero I guess but he had already posted) are players with town games I greatly respect and can usually keep me grounded when I connect with them.

I am also able to easily identify when both of them are town and they are usually priority sorts. Unfortunately, neither have them has been overly active (TTH does have some stuff that I haven't read into yet).

Again I will reiterate that Tammy's level of engagement will be the easiest way for me to sort Imperium. She hates rolling scum probably more than I do, to the point where her level of engagement and enthusiasm is visibly different. So anyone saying to stop using "real life" when trying to read them can shove it, that has nothing to do with it.

And what bothers me about this is that if Tammy and TTH are the people he's hoping will be his touchstone then fine but why hasn't he read TTH's stuff then? "She's my priority but I'm ignoring her lol"?

I don't mind all of his posts, though. Some of it's okay.

I liked 581 in particular because I can relate to caring about something but not being able to word it.

tl;dr: I'm still scumreading him but not as strongly as I was in 327 but still more strongly than I was in 232.

[Caryatid]

I need to reply to 416 but I need to get food first because I have run out of steam pretty hard and all I can think at it right now is just "well, you're wrong" and "I think you're getting a bad tonal read off the way I'm using language and there's not much I can do about that except feel annoyed that if the game had started on a good language day then you'd like me better than you do now. I feel like you're expecting me to be a word-fish and I'm not and it doesn't mean anything about my alignment.

But if I get some food in me maybe I can reply with something that isn't references to poetry you haven't read

[Caryatid]

I don't understand why everyone gets a painting but I don't. That seems pretty unfair.

So unfair that like, I think I just have to spam the rest of this page with lesbians.

Also to counteract that god awful pic that Nacho posted a while back.

You got a really tiny one in the first pic but I don't really have a read on your slot yet sorry

[Caryatid]

Can we have some BBW lesbians though

[Caryatid]

mmmmm

Thank you, nancy!!!

[Caryatid]

What were you feeling when you drew it?

The blue was for your modcolour and the red was for your signature nancy ♥s but I'll make you a better one once I'm caught up. I gotta stir the food on the stove now.

[Caryatid]

There are moments in Carya's play that also just feels to me like scum who have the tiny behaviors, tonewise, down to rote routine.

If by this you mean that I tend to be aware of how I'd be reacting to things as whichever alignment I'm not then you're not really wrong. As town, I have an idea of what my scumself would be pushing or would be tempted to push and as scum I know how I would feel about posts if I didn't know the person's alignment. I think that if I were scum in this game I would be less concerned with adhering very closely to what my townself would be doing because I'm playing under an alt and that gives me a certain amount of freedom to read people without them knowing I'm here, to see what they are doing when they're not playing around me, and of course if I were scum then the freedom would go the other way too. I think Imperium has guessed me by now but I don't think anyone else has and there are only a couple other people that I think will be likely to. Mastina hasn't but she might.

Mastina do you know why 317 makes me a little paranoid of you? But I like that you're pushing Spiffeh so I'm setting it aside for now but I just...want it noted...for postgame cred or something...that it was page 13 when I started worrying.

This feels so, so fake to me. And again, what they've verbalized about Spiffeh so far is that they liked Spiffeh's entrance but just not his lack of content. The phrasing of it as a question is just weird to me. What's the goal here? NMS going to solve your paranoia just because they know you are? This reads like banter but it's the type of banter that's meant to break into a townbloc.

She doesn't, though. It's hard for me to remember that and I do keep talking to people as if they did know, but she doesn't. She doesn't know who I am and she doesn't care about my read on her either way, but I think maybe if she is scum then she'll care a bit because I'm not talking to her like a stranger, I'm talking to her like a friend so she could care. In her head she should be going "who the fuck is that and are they a threat to me." So I liked her response to it and I don't care if you didn't get anything out of that exchange.

Spoiler:

On another note, this post:

The way I feel about camn is that I really liked 118 because it made me laugh and it was off the cuff and cute and I liked her push on Ginngie at first and then in 180 she was talking about awareness and it struck me as odd because I think in general as scum it's easier to have a better awareness of the game state than as town and you have more information to work with, so I feel just about the opposite about situation awareness as camn seems to :/ but her longer explanation in 182 was okay? If it's about nervousness and misreading the town and way her actions would come off to this playerlist then that's a different thing from whta I thought it was and it resonates.

I just want to think about her some more before I have a real read but if you have something, I want to hear it.

This is just a wild read that comes off as faking indecisiveness.

The opener for thinking that camn was town is wack, #118 is just a joke that's almost certainly NAI:

Outguess the mod works sometimes?

#180, the post that gave them hesitation, isn't even close to talking about gamestate. It's just about the playerlist, applying to how camn expects Gin to adjust to it as scum:

Its not about 'caring' but about awareness.
I am sure you are AWARE of the playerlist.

Her longer explanation actually makes it

less

clear that it's more playerlist, as it launches into deeper speculation.

Misreading it is definitely possible, and Carya's 230

does

come to the correct conclusion of what camn's #182 was about in the end, but the read applied to it feels disingenuous to me. #180 and #182 might as well be combined posts with their spacing and themes, and Carya's reaction feels like fake indecision.

So when I'm commenting on stuff, not everything that I like is going to be alignment indicative but I'm still going to say that I like it. Sometimes if most of the stuff I end up liking is just meaningless stuff that I am really just agreeing with or thinking it sounds reasonable then that's a warning sign to me that the person is scum and I've caught a few people that way, but it's too early for me to make a judgement call like that on camn.

But since you asked, "Outguess the mod works sometimes?" is a joke and it's flippant but it's a clever comeback with just the right amount of sarcasm in response to various people casting shade on camn's role and Ginnie said nancy would put hated as a scum role because of the previous game, though looking at the time stamps I guess she had 5 minutes to think up that remark but still I liked it. I know that the camn read at that point was based on something silly and I still don't feel like my read on her is based on solid ground yet but this early on it's not going to be and I'm okay with that.

One thing you need to know about me though is that I don't obfuscate stupidity ever. An arsehole I used to know IRL used to do that to me and I don't want to get into the details but I find it really upsetting to be on the receiving end of that kind of thing and so for me that's a line I'm not going to cross with people. I'm going to misunderstand stuff as both alignments and there's not too much I can do about it and sometimes I'm going to point it out when I'm having a hard time and sometimes I try to hide it but that makes it worse because if I get stuck on something then I can't move on until I get unstuck and that means asking stupid and embarrassing questions or, if I'm lucky, just talking myself through it and translating from the way she's using language to my own way of using language so I can move on.

With 180 and 182 camn is using words to mean something different from what I usually use them to mean and that makes it harder for me to understand her perspective but I can tell that the problem is on my end and that I agree with the point she is making.

[Caryatid]

Why do people purposefully take out quote links when quoting people

If this is at me, it's because I don't usually hit the "quote" button. I copy and paste and add the quote tags in manually.

Why? I know you're behind and this is probably the least important thing you could respond to but I'm curious if you have a moment.

is a vig killing someone because they're neg utility something you've seen actually happen? if so, link plz

Not off the top of my head, but it is basically ALWAYS discussed when someone claims negative utility so the perception that it could happen is enough that a lot of scum won't do it. Either way, I think it's much more likely that mastina claimed negative utility because mastina is negative utility than any kind of tinfoil theory that it benefits scum. If mastina is scum, the claim is probably because of something actually related to mastina's real role.

so mastina's claim is null?

On Ginngie's self vote, I didn't like it at first but thought it may have been an emotional kind of thing which could come from either alignment. However, in the interaction with camn, ginngie comes off pretty calm and collected so I can only see it as a joke (doesn't come off that way at all) or a calculated attempt to accomplish something. I can't see what town would want to accomplish. tl;dr I still don't like the self vote.

Can you write some more words about Ginngie being calm and collected?

Separately, over the course of the last nine years, have you ever seen a town aligned player vote for themself? I mean on the one hand I don't get it either because why vote for the 1 person I know is town but on the other hand I have myself witnessed such a phenomenon.

I don't get the spiff wagon. Anyone wanna explain?

I rambled about Spiffeh a lot in 736. A few other people have, too

[Caryatid]

Prism makes me doubt the ever living shit out of my Cary read

Your quote from earlier, this one:

That tier is just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's the middle of the night in their time zone" tier (you), just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's daytime in their time zone" (Shadowphant). I originally had fewer tiers but I kept finding I did feel a little bit more strongly about one person than another.

Not gonna lie, I don't see scum caring about details like this.

is actually another example of those rote, tiny ingrained behaviors I meant, and I fundamentally disagree with townreading it. From new players I can see the argument but this was extremely trivial to fake as scum.

I made reference to the same feeling in Buttersnap Shitfuckery when people started townreading the tone of Transcend. The context is different-these feel more forum vs. chat-oriented, for instance, but the principle of "ingrained scum shortcut/tiny tonal behavior" is the same.

It's also worth noting that these behaviors are powerful because they're both

plausible as town and easy to fake

. The first especially is a big key-it speaks to the value of digging deeper, not instalynching.

Yeah, I don't think detail oriented is alignment indicative for me. It's a personality thing. I don't know if I would've made that exact post as scum or not (probably my reads would be a little different because I might be protecting a weaker player like Ahsoka¹ or something) but no role PM can cause spontaneous amnesia of what timezone my friends live in so.

1. Who I am meaning to ramble about at some point but probably not in this post². The tl;dr of that drawing is that the straight lines aren't a good sign but the whimsy is okay.
   
2. This catchup is taking forever so I'm trying not to comment on everything but I keep having things to say it's like the words are making up for lost time.

[Caryatid]

Bella's interpretation of the drawings: Why are we a weird crosshatch? The size seems to indicate how much you care? You sure have big feelings about Imperium and none about Maxwell. Also Heartless is beautiful. (we like art ok)

Thank you! I'm glad you like them! Size is correlated with a few different things actually, but one of them is the length of the ISO. Maxwell had like 5 short posts and quick read = not a lot of time spent doodling, so you wind up with this very small drawing that basically amounts to "well Maxwell sure does exist." Big = more posts, bigger things to say about them, bigger feelings too maybe.

As for you, I think a lot of the straight lines end up coming down to Shadoweh's posting where her reads feel a bit simplistic, like in 253 where her Ahsoka is fluffy so he's scum and Prism/camn are having a town conversation so they're town and I know I'm oversimplifying it a bit in this paraphrase but it just felt a bit cookie cutter and easy with her reads feeling fairly conservative. It's early yet so I'm hoping to see how she progresses and how she moves away from this by-the-book straight-lines cookie cutter approach and where she goes from there.

I like Bella's posting better than Shadoweh's because I feel like Bella's focused more on figuring out what her thoughts are and expressing them than on making herself palatable and maybe scumBella would think "oh I've got Shadoweh to do that for me so I don't have to" but I don't think so.

As for Imperium, well you're right about the size of my feelings for them and that's probably the reason they got the prettiest one even though we haven't yet hit the synergy this game that I'm looking forward to. But I do think they're town and I'm looking forward to working together with them.

[Caryatid]

Gin: What I dont care about is you telling me nacho and mastina TRing you makes you town or telling me to accept it as gospel just because
I dont know anything about your relationship and I dont care to chase it down, if all you can do is hide behind them and gloat then youve given me no reason to care

I like Max. (Not just for this; this is a synecdoche.)

I have fewer words with which to continue my catchup today but I think that's a good thing.

[Caryatid]

what are those pictures for

Are you asking me about the pictures I drew or are you asking about something else?

[Caryatid]

why no preview edit >:( *shakes fist*

drew them because couldn't words and sometimes when i can't words i can scumhunt in a different way. It's like there's only one wire that can connect either to language or to tone-and-feelings stuff and it can't connect to both at once, so i couldn't do expressive language but i could read and try to understand and the pictures helped me focus on what i was reading and help me remember what i was seeing while i drew them for later when there were words.

[Caryatid]

If you ISO me I did eventually write an essay about most of the people I drew pictures of; should be easy to find because I attached pictures to the essays too so it explains both the individual picture and what I think of them in language.

[Caryatid]

yeah. You've been pretty opaque to me.

Are you having the same trouble in reverse with understanding me and my posts?

pedit: thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind.

[Caryatid]

Knowing that it was 4:27am when you made that post is helpful context.

[Caryatid]

I like you too, friend

[Caryatid]

Sleep well!

[Caryatid]

@Caryatid what"potshots" was I taking early on? And how are they even comparable with the one's Ginngie has been doing to me?

Like I can't even fathom how you could interpret anything I said as a potshot other than the Tammy-not-being-here stuff which is extremely grounded in my experience with her, as I've already explained.

You already asked Tammy this and I'm probably going to retread the same ground she treaded but:

Spoiler: spiffeh quotes

Why are you all being bad

And Spiffeh just.
Spiffeh just is scum.
You know those scumreads you get which you don't have the words for and yet are immensely strong?
It's one of those.

Spiffeh is just scum.
On every level.

And I legit.
Genuinely.
Think.

The scum are in a panic about Spiffeh being run up so early.
And them being powerless to stop it.

I'm absolutely terrified that the wagon will go away.
That someone will stupidly unvote for some frivolous reason. "Oh don't want Spiffeh to self-hammer". "It's too early to end the day". "Wait, hold on a sec, I think Spiffeh's town". "That claim seems town enough". "That claim buys him a day at minimum". Or any number of similar stock phrases. You get the idea there, right? I'm terrified someone will let the wagon we have fall apart. That it won't go through, that people will back down from it...

...When we have scum, dead to their rights, right in front of us in the here and now.
We also have a townbloc formed. Maybe not as strong of one as in, say, camn's revenge, but a strong start nonetheless. (For starters, camn/you/Imperium/us, just off the top of my head. There's probably more we can mostly or even universally agree upon but four isn't too shabby a start!) And that is something that scum can't break if we don't let them.

So let's not have a BTD6 mislynch this game.

Because Spiffeh is Secret Agent Jin/Katsuki. We might not have perfect agreement on the scumreads from there. If I survive the night then I can probably elaborate on my stances more elsewhere as necessary. But you have to fucking PROMISE me to not let Spiffeh escape our sights right here and now. No excuse, nothing, never unvote him, because we HAVE him.

mastina I've actually never been on the wrong side of your bullshit, zero hesitation, baseless reads before and I can tell you it's just as frustrating and ridiculous as people have said it is!

You're boring

I'll be here to yell at people tomorrow

Catching up and posting "content" so people can stop acting like that's a valid reason to vote park me

236 - telling everyone they're bad instead of scumhunting is posturing.
332 - discrediting mastina instead of engaging with her
337 - deflecting
360 - I realise this is just a prodge but I still don't like it.
445 - cheeky


And as for Ginngie, you're right that she's doing it too, it just feels like theatre to me from both ends.

[Caryatid]

I felt bad that I half-arsed nancy's drawing and then she made it her avatar so I wanted to make it up to her.

Spoiler: @nancy

Crayon and Tempera on paper

[Caryatid]

yay I'm glad you like it

[Caryatid]

We're here! We're queer!

I was havign moments of I hate mafia and mafia sucks I suck but then nacho reminded me who the hell I am.

SUP BITCHES

---

So I have a friend at another site who has this belief in this 1 in 3 thing, in which scum when positing a group of three names always lists one of their partners. I don't necessarily believe in the 1 in 3 thing, but it will be interesting to see if any of the people who listed three people who might be scum at the beginning will be scum.

does that make sense?

Just an end game thought really.

It does make some sense, scum will always be aware when confronted with posting names. "Do I post only town names? Do I sneak in a partner?...". So I agree with whoever liked that Spiffeh started that. It is something I think would be less likely to come from scum.


I can't wait for Caryatid to get to us. I want to see if I interpreted our painting right.

I like rule of 3 but not before LYLO.

Sorry it took me so long to get to you guys; was in a mood yesterday because of RL and didn't want to take it out anybody or for it to screw up my reads. Your drawing is in the half that wound up with recognisable objects and the quarter that has a face. Your ISO starts in the centre with the four blue dots and then the three red lines around them symbolising your answer to spiffeh's guess-the-scumteam thing, and then I was drawing the little blue polar vortex around what became the face while reading 39. Your game theory posts read as fluff to me so a lot of them turned into the hat -- pink seems to be standing in for fluff throughout all the pictures because it's the colour of joy, but I was using yellow for something similar to that too, to change it up and because I don't really like pink that much. The red liquid which wound up being in a cup was when you first had a scumread on Spiffeh and started pursuing it and the little bits of liquid coming out were your attacks, and then your other hand grew some claws too when you were pushing VNB to be more speciffic which I liked.

Since then, I like the attention you're paying to the quieter posters.

I'm not sure what to make of you being the ones to put the brakes on the Spiffeh wagon but I think that if he is scum then it actually makes you more likely to be town.

I think I'm townleaning you guys, though I want to see if your reads are what I think they are first.

[Caryatid]

i think tth is especially and irrationally gunshy about calling cary on going back on spiffeh bc that's what she pushed as scum in kings landing and cary is nowhere close to moving from overall null and the spiffeh progression is indeed not accounted for in cary's posting. a playful slap at mastina with "paranoia" doesn't come off as town to me either

but i guess i better shut up before the harpies arrive to shriek about hydra dissonance so pbpbpbpbpbbppbptptbpptbpptbpt

wait, if you're town then why does tth care about what she did when she was scum?

#fridgelogic

[Caryatid]

weaker player like Ahsoka1

yeah....

from the "weaker player" wording, i know i'm prob gonna get a lot of lip for low hanging fruit or whatever but ahsoka's posting has been pretty consistently unimpressive even when it's there. the camn vote is just kinda plopped there on.... something about the reaction to the self vote? the implied justification is something close to 'self votes aren't scummy, overeager scum jumping on LOOK UR GETTING CONNED'

i also think making a huge deal out of REreading ppl who have post counts that barely break double digits while not giving opinions on them off the supposed first read (kmd/vmd) AND failing to follow through is ????????

Yeah I have no desire to go out on a limb for her here. Everyone's complaining about the fluff but I actually am far more bothered by the low posting volume and the lack of fluff. The Ahsoka I know and love would be spammier than this, consistently in the top half of the playerlist as town, often among the top posters. The signal to noise ratio is about what I expect but she really, really, really has trouble freezing up as scum and putting her heart into the game. I expect Ahsoka to have more personality than this. You can see in the drawing how even the fluff posts are these neat little disjointed squares. I don't like 293 where she says she's not lurking but she is totally active lurking.

I guess I liked 304 and the 4 minutes it took her to say Polar vortex (and herself) was the town in Ginnie's list of [scum-Polar Vortex, KMD, Ahsoka Tano, Maxwell, Spiffeh], though as heartless mentioned it would be better if she'd actually followed up on the promised reread of those slots because none of them have enough posts for that to be arduous, but anyway that's what the blue swirl at the bottom was, polar vortex.

The yellow things were 245, which I liked, and the ladders were 238 because she was able to prop her thoughts about camn up some.

Overall: meh. This isn't a good ISO.

[Caryatid]

i think tth is especially and irrationally gunshy about calling cary on going back on spiffeh bc that's what she pushed as scum in kings landing and cary is nowhere close to moving from overall null and the spiffeh progression is indeed not accounted for in cary's posting. a playful slap at mastina with "paranoia" doesn't come off as town to me either

but i guess i better shut up before the harpies arrive to shriek about hydra dissonance so pbpbpbpbpbbppbptptbpptbpptbpt

wait, if you're town then why does tth care about what she did when she was scum?

#fridgelogic

summary:

me: cary could be scum for [reason x]
tth: wait a second... i used [reason x] to push a townie in my last scum game
tth: therefore [reason x] is not actually scummy

oh! That makes more sense. I think I misunderstood you before; what I heard was that she didn't want to push me the way she had pushed a townie when she was scum, but now it sounds like she's saying that she's town do it before so it doesn't bother her.

Thanks for explaining.

[Caryatid]

No polar I don't thi I can tell you guys apart

Which is probably funny since you're both the people I altguess wrong all the time when home.

But do you altguess them as each other at home?

I thought i could tell them apart but now after re-reading their ISO again today I think that I am just not getting feedback on when I guess wrong so I just assume I'm guessing right. This happened to me in this one fanfic I was reading where there were like 10 characters named Tony and when they suddenly got nicknames I had even more trouble telling them apart because I couldn't remember which Tony had which nickname whereas before if it said Tony then I never got any indication that the Tony I thought it was, was not the one that it actually was...

I make a habit of looking at alts to see if they're banned users so I want y'all to appreciate the effort I'm putting into avoiding my reflexes.

Thank you!

@Cary I have bad news, I'm literally a robot and straightforward thinking is what I do (and a compliment to me >.> ). Data goes in and reads go out. My other half is much better at putting the reasons for the things we know are scummy into words. If I'm conservative it's because I can't make a decision without the facts to back it up. You like her better because she gets your FEE-LINGS :p (Me: Imperium looks like a foot?) I feel a lot better about you as a good read, in any case.

Oh! I can cope with data based players, I'll just need more data from you myself to get there. I'm a bit of a robot too but it's like I can do left brain stuff or right brain stuff but not both at once and I don't get to choose which mode I'm in either.

I hadn't seen Imperium as a foot because it was trying to be a corinthian column that then grew stuff around it after I was done filling it in so it took me a bit of staring to see it that way! So I guess it's time to talk about Imperium. A lot of their early posts didn't feel alignment indicative to me and didn't stand out in either way so I was putting the colours of the posts into the corinthian column. It felt like pretty standard early sorting, not unfakeable but nothing that jumped out to me as worrying either. The tone was good and the colours blended pleasingly and it didn't feel varnished.... uh, can people understand me when I talk like this because I can understand myself but that's not always the best indicator... I feel like I am putting my thoughts into the most exact and precise words to describe the concepts I am trying to convey but I don't know how much is coming through.

I liked the way nacho was sorting me and engaging me. It felt like he was really reaching out to me and trying to understand me when he had me in his scum pile. I want to talk to him some more.

The circles down the side are his readslist and what I thought of it at the time. The little purple fairy on the top of the column is Tammy's posts, which she didn't have so many of them yet and the little blue shield around her to protect her from the flames she's standing so close to and the blue thing wasn't supposed to be a planet but it kinda looks like one now. To the right of the column it's coloured in black so I could do etching because it was originally a pink swirly thing I drew but I messed it up so I coloured over it and then put black so that I could etch the swirly thing instead because etching is pretty and it works better that way because in the darkness even small lights shine brightly, so that colour symbolises hope for me because I wasn't sure yet when I was drawing this I just really wanted to be town together with them again and now I do think it's true.

I like Tammy's posts and the feeling behind them. Nacho's tone is fine. Actually one thing kinda pinged me from their posts after I'd finished the drawing but I looked it up and he literally only did it one other time in 8 years of playing and he was a mason then so that's fine. I just want them to get caught up and talk reads with me.

I think part of the problem I'm having is that I don't want them to know the little things I look for in their play and it's just a bunch of little personal tells that make up the bulk of my read that I know other people will find uncompelling or incomprehensible or both but I like their interactions with me and the way they're talking to me and I like the way Tammy was pushing Spiffeh because I think she'd do it differently if she were scum.

And they got the prettiest picture until nancy got a prettier one and maybe that would've happened anyway because I just really like them as people ok but I really think they're just town.

[Caryatid]

VOTE: Ahsoka yeah.

[Caryatid]

Heartless is that based off of knowing his alt?

Because if so please enlighten me.

ugghhghhhhghghhh

i don't want to be in the business of outing alts but i can't get the idea out of my head and it took my ~60% scumread to ~95%

but rly just off of play and ignoring meta i think ashokas play is pretty scummy and is very lynchworthy. let's just stick to that.

I'm not in the alt-outing business either, so I'll neither confirm nor deny your guess.

[Caryatid]

<3

I knew you'd get there, friend

[Caryatid]

Yay hi Tammy!

[Caryatid]

ur cute when you are agro.

I've been thinking about this post since yesterday.

camn, what were you trying to accomplish here?

[Caryatid]

Nacho, if you have questions about my reads progression on spiffeh that are not explained in 736, let me know.

[Caryatid]

his posts were pretty [redacted]

What were you saying here?

~ Please try to avoid ableism. I'm not going to be making this comment on every post because that would be beyond annoying for you guys but "dumb" and "

lame

" are always going to be redacted if I catch them; there's nothing bad about being unable to speak or unable to walk in some way so using terms that describe those conditions to characterize something as bad is offensive in the same way that using "gay" as "bad" is offensive. Thanks! <3 ~

[Caryatid]

I want to talk about the picture I drew too, and I drew it before last night's catchup so it doesn't have any of the stuff I sorta-liked yet. but the grey is this underlying apathy and disdain for everybody when it's too early to be feeling that way and the red is simmering anger that seems out of place. The pink flower is trying to fluff post but there's this yucky dripping stuff and unpleasant swirling and it just encapsulates his "I'm going to try to sew toxicity and reap apathy" playstyle which I think is more likely to come from scum than not.

The emotional stuff is why I mentioned that I thought that he lost his cool from his earlier days; one of the things that tends to make me dig deeper in a scumread sort of irrationally is when it seems like people are lashing out at others just so that other people will leave them alone and I've felt pretty strongly in my last few interactions with Spiffeh as town that he's been lashing out prematurely and not really caring about the responses that he's getting recently. I felt that again with his early push in response to me putting him below the evil smiley (readslists aren't necessarily going to be in order, him being at the bottom of a scumlist isn't really any different being at the bottom of a sortlist if I don't feel strongly at all about any of those names) and I have trouble reading his tone in stuff like "you're all bad" as serious or not as an immediate response to a wagon that's generated on him for not doing much yet when he knows he hasn't done much yet.

Tammy usually has much less trouble parsing through that sort of stuff than I do, but I think the frustrations she expressed to me earlier were not of the alignment indicative kind and I'm hoping that engaging him on his Ginngie and camn concerns will lead more productive interactions than we've had in the past.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here; trying to think up a substitution for the word we can't say from my post took up a lot of language spoons because I'm #actuallydisabled so I'm gonna try to echo it back at you and you tell me if I missed something?

You are saying that you think that Spiffeh is more angry (angerable?) than he used to be; he used to be calmer. You often scumread people who are behaving like Spiffeh is now, attacking other people to get them off his back. But you've seen Spiffeh lash out like this as town recently, lash out the way he did in response to your readslist. It's hard to tell whether he's trolling or being serious when he calls people bad for wagonning him when he hasn't done anything town yet. You want to sheep Tammy on her read because you think she'll parse it better, but you think right now she's more frustrated than having a confident read so you hope once you hear him out about Ginnie and camn, you'll have a clearer picture.

Did I get it or is there something else?

[Caryatid]

so he was "good enough for page 2" and then I focused elsewhere and stopped paying attention to him.

I guess the point that bothered me the most is how quickly the read when from a "high spot in the readslist" to "someone I'm comfortable with voting", but that's not really fair at all considering how nebulous your reads were at that time (which is understandable based on how early the readslist happened); also don't see any particular scum motivation for you swapping your read as quickly as you did there.

Yeah, it was page 6. I was just happy to have reads. I don't mind discarding early reads if I change my mind and I like early wagons.

Did I get it or is there something else?

You got it.

The intent behind my post was to let you know that the paragraph about the emotional stuff from Spiffeh in particular resonated with me and I completely see where you're coming from, but I don't think it's alignment indicative for him. I do plan on letting Tammy read him, but our early talks made it seem like she was picking up on that same emotional stuff we are so I didn't feel confident in her bad feelings when she talked to me about them. I have high hopes for our future interactions over Ginngie/Camn reads because I think there's less reason for Spiffeh to get frustrated when talking to me about them, and so I'm hoping I can get a read on him where I don't have to check bias nearly as often.

Does that make sense?

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining it to me. I think you're right that trying to talk with him about a third party is likely to be less frustrating for both sides.

[Caryatid]

I googled what a BBw lesbian is. It brought up a bunch of links to bbw lesbian porn but didn't tell me what one is

Soft, voluptuous, zaftig, sensuous, curvy, rubenesque

[Caryatid]

Spoiler: long camn quote

ur cute when you are agro.

I've been thinking about this post since yesterday.

camn, what were you trying to accomplish here?

This is a good question.
I just thought about it for a while... and though I am not sure I was totally consciously aware of it at the time.. I think the answer is as follows:

(side note.. this is gonna be a nuanced and personal post. please take it the right way)

So, Caryatid.. I know who you are and I know you have read some of my games.
I don't know if you have read them ALL though (I wouldn't put it past you).. so I will give you a little back story.

Here, on MS, there is a certain subset of players, I call them RAGEPLAYERS in my mind. Cowbells. Fate. Katsuki. Many Others.. They have/had a culture of sometimes insane ego-battles.. and for good or ill, they often dominate games with these battles.
Historically, I hope I have stood apart from them, but I have played a NUMBER of games with them, and in that culture/timeframe..and in fact I am closely associated with Katsuki in particular. The game Spiffeh quoted for meta was a camntsuki game. And I may, in my heart, have added to some of that anger-play in the past. Part of my partnership with Kats was to learn to play that way, and to deal with people who play that way without getting smashed to dust.

That said- I don't love that kind of play. (I never have.. which part of why camntsuki was born.) I feel like it is representative of something very male-manipulative, and reflective of the real world in many ways, especially when it comes to gender relations. In real life, men wouldnt speak to each other like this.. because fist-fights and murder would ensue. But they would talk to US this way.. and many times we would simply capitulate. OR we DO talk back... and fist-fights and murder ensue, only we never win.
This is also true, historically, here on ms.net. Often the men involved can handle the purifying flame of CAPSRAGE and hate.. and some of us (not all!) but some, we don't handle it well. We stop playing. we replace out. whatever. And almost always the game sucks.

ANyway- enter post 837

I like Spiffeh. But when I see signs of escalation into nonsense-land:

this is garbage.

....use this to further justify her awful vote on me.

YES BECAUSE THE BULLSHIT REASON YOU HAVE FOR REMAINING ON MY WAGON WAS AWFUL AND I DON'T WANT YOU TO GET AWAY WITH IT?

playerlist really shouldn't be amateur hour

I have a couple options.
1) I can, of course, egg him on. I could turn that into a total meltdown- but I don't think it is a good time for that, in this game. As above.. I don't know if, personally, I am in a place where I EVER think it is a good time anymore... but I admit there have been times when I did.
2) I can Ignore. This has an undesirable side-effect though. It sends the message that I can be bullied.. which I can't. There are no fists here, and no murder. Just the Lynch, and Spiffeh doesn't have the juice for that atm. OR...
3) I can Defuse.

My post 837 was a defusing post. I don't want to ego-battle Spiffeh right now. Maybe I don't ever. If it comes down to a 1v1, OF COURSE I will dance on his fucking grave.... but this game is young, Spiff is back in it and not lurking anymore... (the wagon accomplished that much, although I would have liked it to get to L-1)... and I think calming that shit down was the right thing to do.

So, my dear Caryatid, that is why.
And maybe, Spiff, this can give you some insight into where I am at too. Before you just go calling everything 'BAD" some more, and wondering why I am not camntsuki.

Camn, I really appreciate this answer and this context. It helps a lot. I have read some of your games but nowhere near all of them; the games of yours that I've read, I was generally following it because one of the players that I do read all their games was playing in that game so I read your posts too.

I had a pretty visceral reaction to that post originally because if I were to make a list of "shit guys say to me" then "You're so cute when you _____" would be pretty near the top especially because of the part after the blank but I don't want to get into it because that's a bit heavy for a mafia game and I'd rather leave it unsaid, but suffice it to say that I wasn't sure how much of my reaction to your post was about this game at all. If someone had said something like that to me I think I would've responded with claws out because I've been here before, I know where it goes, I know what comes next and fuck that but you're right that the context is completely different when a woman is saying it to man because it's taking their patronising shit and shoving it back at them and that context is matters a lot.

So I did read it initially as egging him on, not defusing, but a man wouldn't have the context for that, men don't get patted on the head and told how cute they are. And as for the rest of it yeah you're absolutely right, it's something I've been struggling with lately where we're screwed no matter what we do and I don't want to get into here because it's personal but what you're saying really struck a cord with me and it was something I needed to hear right now, so thank you for that.

[Caryatid]

Mastina! Hi! It's good to see you!

[Caryatid]

drew them because couldn't words and sometimes when i can't words i can scumhunt in a different way.

Oh. Well then. I could obviously be wrong here but I believe I do in fact know who you are now! Hi! <3

(Yes, this is me. Only just now. Figuring it out.)

RE: you having concerns on my reads, even knowing who you are I must apologize, I still don't understand what your issue with them was.

I am embarrassed that I'm not doing a better job of secret alting but I guess it's not unreasonable that almost¹ everyone who has a hope of reading me based on meta has figured it out.

Are you still scumreading Heartless? I've felt pretty good about them lately, been nodding along as they post stuff and their tone has seemed okay to me. pedit: I can see that's a yes but I'm leaving this in because I want to express that I don't understand and I want to.

My problem with 306 was less the what and more the why/how, if that makes sense. I don't really care about whether we agree with reads on page 13 or not because it was early. The way you were describing your reads, not the content of them, something about your tone but it wasn't a strong read just a worried feeling. But you are someone I think I'll be able to read eventually so when I get worried early I'm okay with sitting with it for a while because I know it will come clear and I trust myself.

1. There is one more person I am expecting an "oh! hi!" from.

[Caryatid]

Spoiler:

Is it bad that my first thought was "why is nancy posting a picture of lesbininjas"?

lesbians in niqab and hijab made my day. Thank you, nancy <3

~ <3 ~

[Caryatid]

MaxwellPuckett (4)

~ Prism, Heartless, Ginngie, camn

This wagon is bad, and you should feel bad. Except scum, they're okay except that they're bad just in a different way.

camn (2)

~ Ahsoka Tano, Spiffeh

This wagon is scum, and you should feel proud for being scum.

Can you talk about your Maxwell read at all? Is it more townreading Max or more confidence in your scumreads elsewhere or something else?

[Caryatid]

Btw please don't lynch Ahsoka Tano for a while.
I want to at least try to get Jae's input there because that's something they could maybe actually help me on even if they're "out" of the game as it were.
I asked them and they said they'd try, but they don't have time for it tonight.

Ahsoka is at L-3 right now, and I'll try to buy you time if I can, but the deadline metre is at 22% (down from 34% yesterday), so Jae needs to get to this in the next day or two because we have plurality lynches in this game.

[Caryatid]

Can you talk about your Maxwell read at all? Is it more townreading Max or more confidence in your scumreads elsewhere or something else?

It's a combination of factors, actually.

Maxwell is a nulltownread, in that there's not really much to go off of but I don't actually get a feeling that Maxwell's scum. Gut, essentially, tells me that Maxwell just isn't scum.

This is indeed bolstered by my confidence in my

actual

scumreads. I have three rather solid ones I have great confidence in (even if I suck at explaining them). One of them, Heartless, was on the wagon and not likely in a way which would be a bus. Which brings me to another part. When you wagon on players, sometimes you just get a ~feeling~ about the person you're wagoning, off of the circumstances behind the wagon. The circumstances behind the wagon on MaxwellPuckett suck. They don't feel towndriven at all; they don't feel like a lynch at scum at all. (The opposite of Spiffeh, which was 100% towndriven and felt like a lynch on scum.)

I realize there's nothing really tangible to talk about, but then that's not all too surprising when you've got a slot who has not contributed much, and yet would do so regardless of alignment. (Especially given that replace-out request.)

That makes sense that it would be a circumstantial/game state read, especially since Max was a counterwagon to Spiffeh. I'm hoping the replacement will help. Looks like we'll either get Leon, who should be legible, Cheetory, who is the awesome but I doubt I can read him, and Regfan, who I haven't played with.)

[Caryatid]

Jae, do you know what's making it harder for you to get into this game? Is there anything we can do to help?

[Caryatid]

Wait, shit you're the other one Bella actually wanted to talk. Uhm, uhm, hello mate, good to see you poppin in wot say you take a gander at everything else that's been bandied around about Ahsoka and see it tain't just about lurkin' cheerio pip

You probs know better than I do where the cases/arguments are at. Help me out? <3

So Anti told me who he thinks Ashoka is and, based on the confluence of factors he cited to arrive at his conclusion, I think it's a reasonable guess and if he's correct it would strengthen the evidence that the slot is scum. However, I think he did the right thing by not outing his guess as it wouldn't have been respectful to Ashoka's privacy and desire to escape meta. As such, we will not discuss this topic further and we'll drop the claim to the meta tell.

Besides, we think the Ashoka case, outlined in Antihero's Post 771, Spiffeh's Post 926, and Caryatid's Post 978, has enough merit to stand on its own without meta.

[Caryatid]

Spiffeh wagon gained momentum on page 9 and I'd say 219 was what sparked it. There were already two votes on him at that time (including Mastina's) and a bunch of us joined. Spiffeh's responses to the wagon on him start in post 9 of his ISO.

[Caryatid]

yeah, ahsoka's getting plurality lynched but mastina wanted jae to post before the lynch and jae's actually doing that now

[Caryatid]

10 ~ Deadlines. Day deadlines are calculated via activity; if the Deadline Meter reaches 0, the Day will end. Plurality Lynches. Nights last 48 hours. Nighttalk is enabled.

@nancy: Does this mean the thread will be unlocked for us to chatter in during the nightphase or does it mean something else?

[Caryatid]

help I'm being scolded for pretending to be british

IS SHE AWAKE?!?! *perks up*

Registered users: Aristophanes, Assemblerotws,

Bellaphant

, Bing [Bot], CommKnight, ConManMick, Flameaxe, gigabyteTroubadour, Google [Bot], Hopkirk, MattP, NoticeMeSenpai, RadiantCowbells, randomidget, Realeo, Reasonably Rational, Something_Smart, Sudo_Nym, Thor665, Vaxkiller, VNB National Plan, Yahoo [Bot], Zaicon

[Caryatid]

what the fuck ever, mastina. seeya on the other side of the scum flip.

Also side note hot take from someone who has no meta on

them

¹ as a player and no idea of the gamestate.

This very strongly reads like someone who is trying to fake confidence in a wagon flipping scum. I don't believe the sentiment here, basically.

1. Does this them refer to Heartless or to Asokah?

[Caryatid]

Hey Tammy it's good to see you!


I have decided to join the avatar fad so I drew a caryatid.

Spoiler: larger

[Caryatid]

we have plurality lynches so we're guaranteed a lynch.

@nancy: will ties be handled with coinflip or oldest wagon or newest wagon or something else?

[Caryatid]

Polar Vortex do you have any scum reads at the moment?

Both heads have different scumreads at the moment. We're working on them and will give reads together

soonish

. My better head has town reads on all of the Spiffeh wagon. I currently don't have reads on any of then, but the way the wagon is going I'm sure there should be at least one scum there. Probably not Ginngie since my interaction with her earlier on gave me a good impression
~Bear

I'm not sure which of you is V/LA but I'm guessing it's Snowstorm. Did he leave you with enough of his reads for you to get to this, Petyr?

[Caryatid]

The deadline has been dropping by about 10-12% per real life day lately so expect the lynch to happen sometime this weekend. Nighttalk is enabled, though, so you can continue catching up during the nightphase if necessary.

Are you back from V/LA now?

[Caryatid]

This was my big post on Spiffeh. Other people had posts about him too.

Wait, shit you're the other one Bella actually wanted to talk. Uhm, uhm, hello mate, good to see you poppin in wot say you take a gander at everything else that's been bandied around about Ahsoka and see it tain't just about lurkin' cheerio pip

You probs know better than I do where the cases/arguments are at. Help me out? <3

So Anti told me who he thinks Ashoka is and, based on the confluence of factors he cited to arrive at his conclusion, I think it's a reasonable guess and if he's correct it would strengthen the evidence that the slot is scum. However, I think he did the right thing by not outing his guess as it wouldn't have been respectful to Ashoka's privacy and desire to escape meta. As such, we will not discuss this topic further and we'll drop the claim to the meta tell.

Besides, we think the Ashoka case, outlined in Antihero's Post 771, Spiffeh's Post 926, and Caryatid's Post 978, has enough merit to stand on its own without meta.

The other main wagon was you.

[Caryatid]

I wasn't really interested in the wagon on you; to me it seemed more like a lurker wagon than anything but it dissolved pretty quickly too so I don't know. Prism had some points about you for example in 423.

There's a thing at the top of the thread near where it says "reply" where you can search the thread search for mentions of max.

935 by heartless is fairly articulate about their reasons for voting you.

Ari had been a background scumread for a while because he wasn't doing much except for active lurking so there was a lot of build up there that isn't really reflected in the votes, it was a "everyone thinks this is scum but he's not here so he's flying under the radar" kind of thing and we eventually got tired of his empty promises.

[Caryatid]

@nancy: will ties be handled with coinflip or oldest wagon or newest wagon or something else?

Oldest wagon! Because youth is overrated.

[Caryatid]

yeah

[Caryatid]

I'm not sure if I asked this before but Spiffeh have you played with Mastin much?

Yeah I've played two of my more recent games with her. Haven't seen her as scum though.

You were scum together with her in Disney Villain. She was town together with you in Cougar's Den and Gumball and you were scum against her in Defcon and Biochemistry.

[Caryatid]

six minutes

[Caryatid]

She needs coffee, then

[Caryatid]

has anyone posted the obligatory gay kisss yet?

yeah, TAmmy did. i'll find it

[Caryatid]

Oh also I forgot to do this earlier. i just feel that some are being underrepresented here, so:

Spoiler:

~ Spoilered your completely irrelevent picture. This thread is about lesbians not gay people tyvm. ~

[Caryatid]

[Caryatid]

Let's watch lesbian movies while we wait (work safe)

[Caryatid]

Lets watch NOT work safe ones!

11 ~ Age restriction. This game is 18+ only. All mature content will be placed in spoiler tags labeled NSFW. Players may not post mature content.

Alas


Also I was gonna post part 2 but i can't tell if it's work safe or not but if you go to the person's channel on youtube it should be easy to find. like part two is tasteful and classy and stuff but that's not really what work safe means is it.

[Caryatid]

The others are all called "B with english subs 2/10" 3/10 4/10 etc.

Also, darling, if you're reading this game, don't watch this one; we watched it like 6-7 years ago together and it made you sad.

[Caryatid]

I'm watching "DYKE CENTRAL pilot episode!" on youtube right now but when you're logged out, youtube says:

Content Warning

This video may be inappropriate for some users.


but it's pretty tame so far? it's some dykes looking for a new roommate and arranging a birthday party for one of their girlfriends but i'm only about 3/4 of the way through. i'll post it if it continues to be work safe. like nobody's kissed anybody or anything yet.

[Caryatid]

there hasn't even been premarital handholding, which is something my adults warned me about when i was a teenager.

[Caryatid]

ok i take it back last 3 minutes aren't work safe

[Caryatid]

[Caryatid]

holy shit, friend. take as much time as you need. <3

[Caryatid]

Yeah not sold on this Ahsoka wagon. Spiffeh's right in that Ahsoka's #698 leaves a lot to be desired, but that and activity are all I see. Worth pressuring and getting in the game but not currently down to lynch.

Fleshing out my thoughts a bit on Carya, I've liked their depth and reads and interactions loads more originally (another read I need to set more in concrete terms w/ references at some point), and in particular I'm finding their explanations behind their drawings relateable and easy to follow. I think what bothers me is that the drawings make a great gimmick, but I feel as though their use as a tool has to be somewhat disingenuous. The explanations or the feelings don't arise from the drawing, but is instead pre-existing, making the drawings no more difficult to fake than the originating thoughts.

It is certainly true that focusing on one element of your thought process for a bit helps you expound on it, so I can see it from a valuable tool from that perspective, but that too seems trivial to overcome provided the foundation is plausibly faked.

Still think they're town, just wanted to put down my thoughts on the drawings themselves (And they are wonderful and much welcomed, regardless of Cary's alignment, so thanks for them Cary-I'm again honored by the analogy to still lake water)

I wanted to come back to this and try to explain if I can without giving too much of my identity away. I haven't done drawings like this in a game before as any alignment; it's been a while since I've done much drawing at all. Usually I try to push through and word things anyway and then people pick at my clumsy wording and then i get my feelings hurt and that's no fun. I drew stuff because I felt like it and because it was a way to store my impressions and feelings/thoughts for later. I knew I'd remember at least roughly what order I drew elements of each drawing in and that I'd have no trouble understanding what the colours meant either. I can look at a drawing and look at an ISO and match up the parts pretty easily; I can look at scribbles from 20 years ago and not remember what prompted them but still understand exactly what I was trying to say.

I don't really know what you mean by pre-existing. The language I use to communicate with myself is pre-existing, sure. But it's a language with only one speaker. If you lived in my head, the drawing would be enough and the words would be superfluous. If I write like "her approach to this game is purple streaked with teal" then I know what I mean but still nobody else is gonna get it. I have to say "she's taking this all-by-myself-don't-trust-nobody approach" which isn't explaining the teal part, the teal is part of why she's taking that approach but not all of it. I don't know whether it's that I can't explain this further or that I don't want to but maybe a mixture of both.

but if i want to be understood by people outside of my own head i have to use your language instead of mine, have to say it was colonel mickey in the conservatory with the candlestick or leon in the post 1348 with the not looking things up for himself. if you spoke my language i could just hand you colours and you'd know what they were, but you don't.


pedit: white guys are the worst

[Caryatid]

Tammy, have you found it means anything when you mix up a couple players in your head? Call it superstition, but when it happens to me I tend to think it does, like my subconscious is trying to tell me one of them is camouflaging themselves.

[Caryatid]

I just get this sinking feeling in my chest whenever I read Jae's posts.

[Caryatid]

Men are awful.

#NotAllMen #JustThoseOfYouGettingDefensiveRightNow

[Caryatid]

I'm not saying Ahsoka is scum lurking but nancy has more content in thread....

I didn't mind this at the time but in retrospect: Have you noticed that nancy has more content than literally everyone except Heartless and Ginngie? She has more content than Leon+Max, Kmd, and you put together.

You had to have gone to the activity overview to make this post, and "has less posts than the mod" is a valid criticism in most games, but most games of this size, the mod would have like a third of the posts that nancy does.

[Caryatid]

oh, you were looking at his ISO when you said that?

nancy has like 150 posts

[Caryatid]

random thought of the day: gingie makin a joke about all of sc townreading her makes me feel like she -is- town?

what does sc mean?

I'm not feeling too hot at the moment, both personally and about how things have been going for me online lately, but it's time to get back on the ball. I'm not letting my anxiety get the best of me. It's time to shine.

I hope it gets better.

ah.. I guess so. They weren't a BODYguard.. but a Doc, yes?

They seem to have been a roleblocker that could only prevent kills?


also: VOTE: Polar Vortex, semantics.

[Caryatid]

sweet

[Caryatid]

also: VOTE: Polar Vortex, semantics.

What about semantics?

I'm not really here because I'm busy with my girlfriend but I think you and VNB are arguing about words and you're resisting the realisation that it's just words.

[Caryatid]

UNVOTE: ugh.

I don't agree that words are just words, but I don't think I'm resisting anything.

You spent a few pages having an argument that I couldn't understand where it felt like neither side was trying to understanding to understand what the other was saying but just going around in circles and I do think arguing just to argue is scummy. And it felt like you were positioning yourself to vote VNB later, it looked like you were setting up the next wagon to join after you get tired of the one you're on so I wasn't expecting you to come back and townread them, that changes my understanding of the exchange quite a bit.

[Caryatid]

So yeah, Heartless will not be dying tonight.

What did you mean by this?

[Caryatid]

^^
If I knew it was Ari I would have backed mastina 100%

Anyway, I feel like I have a renewed energy in this game for ~reasons~ so I'm gonna try to read up tomorrow and actually be anything but a lurksack of a hydra head. <3 Sorry for the freeloading up til this point.

how's this going?

[Caryatid]

That was meant to discourage scum from shooting them

Clearly it didn't work

ah. Who here has seen you do that before, do you know?

[Caryatid]

I MISSED YOU

[Caryatid]

Ok

VOTE: Leon

[Caryatid]

Wait, you're not even voting him

[Caryatid]

VNB while you're here can you tell me what SC means?

[Caryatid]

I don't like Max saying "Am I forgetting you from somewhere polar bear hydra" in 38, could be a "hey I'm not scum with them wink wink" post. He doesn't seem to like Polar's response in 44, saying "That sure is a recap of the situation I just told you", but he doesn't vote them or push them or do anything with it.

Could be spewing Ginngie town in 134?

I liked the evocative language of describing Ginngie as looking into a puddle and finding Atlantis in 450. I liked the moment of hesitation in 271 on Ahsoka but they go back to disliking Ahsoka in 450 and I don't know.

Ginngie is scum but they don't pursue it yet, keeping their vote on Ahsoka in 456. Their votes have a sticky quality to them: hesitating on Ahsoka but not unvoting, scumreading Ginngie but waiting to vote there.

The case on Ginngie in 474 is pretty good though. It's a good insight that Ginngie's scumread on them comes after Prism mentions hers. They think it's scummy of Ginngie to give them a sick pass. Instead of taking the "get out of being wagoned free" card and not looking a gift horse in the mouth, they take the position that Ginngie, if town, should've wagonned them whether they were there or not.

And I like the anger with Ginngie in 481.

Max is one of the ones to put the breaks on the Spiffeh wagon with posts like 486. The Ginnie push could be motivated by that Spiffeh wagon, actually, if they're scum together. If so, it's cleverly executed.

I like 507 because I support the motion towards less toxicity in games but I don't think it's alignment indicative.

The tone in 570 feels like they know Ginngie is town and they don't want Ginnie to get mad at them.

And then Leon replaces in and asks for help getting caught up. Help is provided. And then he does...almost nothing.


I think that if Leon is scum then Ginngie is almost certainly town after all. I think Imperium and Prism are town too in a scumLeon world but I already thought that anyway. Possible buddies are [spiffeh, polar, kmd, noticemesenpai] which is too many, so I'd like to take some time to narrow that down.

Leon, I realise that almost all of this is about your predecessor, so the part you can answer for is the "does....almost nothing" part. If you're town, some original analysis from you would help.

[Caryatid]

I just get this sinking feeling in my chest whenever I read Jae's posts.

Jae had quite the reaction to this so this might be something good to elaborate on for their sake.

I don't really want to. I've got a few townreads that I really believe in and at the bottom I've got a mess of people that I like some of what they're doing and hate some of what they're doing and I haven't had the time/energy to get it straight in my head, to figure out whether the 2-3 posts that I like from this-or-that player mean they're town or just means that i like some of their posts, but I know that when I do I'm going to come away some more strong townreads that I can be proud of. At least I hope so. And somewhere above the tangled morass of you-can't-all-be-scum is you, you who I want to be town, you who I'm giving a sispass to for ~reasons~, you who I can't stop worrying about. I want you two here and posting and I wanna give you space to do your thing because I know I'll get it right if I can just watch you long enough but I'm not good at hiding stuff, not good at pretending not to worry.

I townread you guys originally way back when because I thought your entrance was Jae's and I liked that they were taking point but I realised that I was wrong, that they weren't taking point at all, and their absence worried me because last I know of them is that they aren't confident in their scumgame and I don't think Jae as town would have nothing to say for so long. It's unlike them.

The tone of the heartless push worried me too.

Posts like 1233 have my shoulders up around my ears but I think it's NAI and I'm just squicked.

If I could write a case or something you could respond to then I would but all I have is this bad feeling that it's hard to talk about but like they're not even reading the hydra PT and spiffeh could be scum but he's probably town and they liked my points but I wouldn't have trouble writing a post like the one they liked as scum so ?? and

I don't know. they said that realising that they like a bunch of people here would get them into the game, great, but then a lot of silence followed that and it feels empty and hollow, like something they knew they'd say as town but there wasn't any real feeling behind it. and even as they're saying it they're making excuses for why they won't follow through.

I wish you were town

[Caryatid]

Cary, Bella said the SC stands for Site Chat.

Thank you! However, I am still confused:

random thought of the day: gingie makin a joke about all of sc townreading her makes me feel like she -is- town?
it's a weirdly self aware thought that I don't think scum would draw attention to.

I reread Ginngie's ISO and I can't find where this happened. Where did she joke that site chat was townreading her?

[Caryatid]

oh. i wasn't looking for the word lobby. words are hard. so you meant "all of the players who regularly frequent the site chat lobby are townreading you" or something else?

[Caryatid]

yeah trying to do words today is clearly a mistake. i'm gonna go fuck off for a while.


also I'm not ready to end this day phase so please don't put anyone in a position to self hammer. thanks!

[Caryatid]

Shadoweh, why do you keep picking on me about language stuff? You keep acting like I should be doing something other than asking for clarification when I don't understand something and I'm baffled as to what you think I should be doing instead.

[Caryatid]

Does it come off as picking on you? That's not my intent. I feel awkward trying to explain meaning of things I say because I don't have different words for them.
Although it's not something I personally said this time, I always find it mystifying when other people don't read things the same way I do. Even though it happens often. <.<

I guess I'm taking it more personally than I should because I feel embarrassed about missing stuff.

[Caryatid]

I actually miss Spiff, I feel like he's vanished from this game

do you think flashwagoning him will help?

[Caryatid]

I think we're just different models of robot, Shadoweh. I'm the kind from AI who spends 2000 years under glacial ice praying to the Blue Fairy that he was a real

boy

person.

[Caryatid]

Well, well. Aristo.
This flexy deadline business needs a bit of adjusting to, I think.

That's annoying

yeah

Camn and cary, you were voting him. Were you planning on switching or what?

I might've misread it, but I thought Heartless was saying "That's annoying

that Ari flipped town

" so that's what I was saying yeah to. I wasn't planning on switching; if we'd gone on a mad deadline scramble, we would've spent most of day 2 arguing about Ari all over again, unless we hit scum in the deadline scramble but possibly even then. I think it was pretty clear that nobody else was getting lynched that day: we were all just waiting around for Ari to do something or not do something and nothing Ari was doing was convincing any of us so it didn't surprise me that the deadline was reduced to 0 from 12 when the deadline had been falling by about that much per day anyway and we knew that it falls more quickly when we're sitting around doing nothing.

I think that now that we know how the deadline battery worked on day 1, we should be more aware of it this day phase.

I'm not really here because I'm busy with my girlfriend but I think you and VNB are arguing about words and you're resisting the realisation that it's just words.

Why is that more likely to be scum doing it intentionally than town just being stubborn?

I find pointless semantics arguments to more often be SvS or SvT than TvT because as town you're trying to understand what the other person as saying but as scum you're just looking for shit to push and you resist changing your mind because then you'd have to find some new shit to push and that takes ~effort~. But I like that they came away from the argument townreading each other as that negates a lot of what I didn't like about it.

ah. Who here has seen you do that before, do you know?

As town or scum?

Either.

@Spiff

, I really want an answer to this. By asking the question, I'm saying that I have seen him do it before (as town; haven't seen him as scum before), and that I know of at least one other player here who has, but Spiffeh should have a better memory of who he's played with and how often he does that gambit than I do since I'm limited to games of his that I played in/read. Either the scumteam weren't reading very closely and missed his post entirely [which suggests one group of players], OR someone on the scumteam was able to say "nah, that's not a crumb, he does that as VT too." and I really want to know who that list of players is.

I'm fine with dropping the discussion on it though because we were talking in circles long before now. Nothing productive will come from it.

Thank fuck, that was getting old.

Reads, town on top, scum on bottom:
Kmd
Spiff
Cary
Camn
Imperium
NoticeMe
Polar
VNB
Leon
Prism
Ginngie

Vote Ginngie

Can you talk about NoticeMe? You and Mastina seem to know each other pretty well, is she null for you or do you have a lot of town reads?

You've mentioned your scumread on Max/Leon before but you haven't gone into a lot of detail about that read, just pointed to a couple posts you disliked. Can you go into more detail?

[Caryatid]

nancy, can you prod Polar, Spiffeh and Imperium?

~ I was just thinking about that while I was showering just now! <3 ~

[Caryatid]

help me dear friends

hi friend! I'm glad you're here and I wish I weren't going to sleep now

[Caryatid]

Ginngie hard at work to deprive us of lesbians

[Caryatid]

Where is everybody?

VOTE: Polar Vortex

L-1

[Caryatid]

I actually think the mastina slot needs a fuck ton more attention tbh.

Yeah I agree. I think we've been getting complacent.

[Caryatid]

I already claimed to my neighbour. I don't feel inclined to reveal to everyone else at this time. Cary can claim next.

I'm lubricant and I'm an x-shot neighbourising vig-maker.

I targetted camn night 1 and we shot spiffeh. I am not going to claim my night 2 target because I don't want the person with the shot to be roleblocked.

[Caryatid]

popcorn to imperium i guess

[Caryatid]

What kind of lubricant? kmd also claimed it.

fuck i meant lingerie.

[Caryatid]

I'm nancy's white lace bra and panties that she saves for special occasions. I just typed the wrong L word.

[Caryatid]

Carya popcorning to Imperium slows down this game so much, ugh.

pretty much everyone else has claimed or refused to claim.

question, who shoots the gun? @camn and Cary

camn shot. think of it like an inventor type role.

[Caryatid]

Where is everybody?

VOTE: Polar Vortex

L-1

Why did you do this?

It's hard for me to articulate it. I was at a place where I was letting perfect be the enemy of good. I had spent literally days trying to read their ISO after I realised I'd misunderstood something about their push on you and wanted to see where I stood and I was having trouble with it. I found a few things to talk about but the things I wrote weren't very important or compelling and I couldn't put into words the slippery feeling I was getting from their ISO. In a few recent games of mine, when I've felt that way about a player, they wound up flipping scum so I've been gaining confidence in that feeling but I was wrong here. The day was stalling and I hadn't liked any of their recent posts and the reaction to L-1 wasn't convincing either. There was little stuff like the reads in 1723 all seemed unobjectionable but like they were just sort of coasting through the game without convictions and without the drive to acquire those convictions and I think plurality lynches are more likely to create that sort of play in scum because you don't even need to get that many people on board with a lynch.

[Caryatid]

Cary: Why didn't you say any of that yesterday?

i had a job interview yesterday.

[Caryatid]

I'm glad you're here, nacho

[Caryatid]

l m a o jailing Nacho is always the right choice imo

We're NEW RELATIONSHIP ENERGY! Awh yeah baby, the stuff that makes girls spend all their time together all night long. I'm sure that means nothing about our hydra.
It's funny Sempai used the 'Disloyal' term. I didn't realize Loyal was a popular word. We only neighbourize town people. Everyone else nothing happens.

Night 1 Prism seemed off so we hopped on board. I mean, can you blame me for wanting to get as close to that as possible? (then he spend the next day towning it up, bastard)
We spent most of the night targetting camn tbh but after they claimed masons I figured that would be a waste, so I wanted to pick up an artist for Bella to EMOTION with.
But gosh, Night 2 is over and Cary didn't join us for neighbour time! You're breaking Bella's heart, she really wanted you to be town.
(tbh it's because of Sempai's explosion over Cary worrying about her that I checked her. I was disappointed today Sempai didn't care about her at all!)

So if you have a Ginngie level attention span: Loyal Neighbourizer. Prism bueno! Cary no bueno. Prism has a 0% chance of being scum. It's also really fucking strange that there's a mason pair in a game in which I make masons.

You must've been roleblocked.

[Caryatid]

I don't know. obviously someone who didn't truthclaim.

[Caryatid]

I don't know. obviously someone who didn't truthclaim.

Literally every action has been proven >_>

the roles in this game are complicated and have multiple parts. someone doesn't have to claim all of their role.

I don't know how this happened but my role doesn't make any sense at all for scum. it's too overpowered and town doesn't have enough to counter it.

[Caryatid]

It's MYLO. After you mislynch me, Prism's going to have to shoot right or we lose.

pedit jinx

[Caryatid]

ginngie it's still not enough. a scum vig maker essentially gives scum two nightkills per night.

[Caryatid]

I don't know. obviously someone who didn't truthclaim.

Name names, because there's really nobody it could be.
Imperium could have lied about their role but they were jailkept last night meaning if they had a roleblock, it would fail.
We don't have an action.
Ginngie has claimed no action.
camn couldn't have actioned.
Prism's action is accounted for.
KMD's action is accounted for.
Your own neighborizing vig is accounted for.

So there's no viable way for the action to fail.

camn is town, she would've shot me if she were scum. the actions that people have claimed are accounted for. i am still suspicious as hell of you. ginngie has claimed no action which is not the same as having taken no action, not to be pedantic or anything though I'd been townreading her lately. VNB could be lying if they weren't roleblocked but I also had them as town-need-to-reassess. I don't fucking know. all i know is that i'm town.

ginngie it's still not enough. a scum vig maker essentially gives scum two nightkills per night.

I already went over this in our PT, repeatedly.

Scum-you doesn't have the power to give this to your teammate.

and i disagree with your points. If I were scum I would have the power to give it to someone who was town and scumreading town that i didn't think i could mislynch.

[Caryatid]

Like, sure, ostensibly Carya, you are town and so is your role.

The head-in-the-sand inability to see how your role could ever be scum and instead just saying NUH UH IT'D BE BROKEN on the other hand is really tiring. It's not true. Scum getting to pick the town that get the vig is actually a fantastic idea mechanically.

I guess one thing that

doesn't

hold up for it is that they can opt to just give it to the night kill, but that's part of the beauty of such a scum role I think. You want to use it but it has its drawbacks.

P-Edit: ...You mean like me and camn?

if i were scum against townyou, i would not have the balls to neighbourise you. You've been paranoid of me all fucking game and you're the kind of player who would need a lot of tiring back and forth to get you to townread me and it wouldn't stick. There were better choices if I were scum, like Ginngie who had an unshakable townread on me, but I felt better about my townread on you because I still don'T really get Ginngie's playstyle.

[Caryatid]

VNB, last chance to retract your fake guilty.

[Caryatid]

VOTE: VNB

I need to make lunch.

[Caryatid]

Yep, it does, hence my FoS all day.

Their reason for giving me the gun by the way was mostly just me sounding genuine from what I said during the day. Keeping in mind that I had just spearheaded a mislynch and did jackshit Day 1 I'm a bit skeptical of being deserving of a vigshot.

Reason given for picking me over camn was that camn was scared she'd die. Valid, and I believe camn really said this, but there's a

really fucking obvious alternative pick

, called camn's mason partner.

why should i give a gun to the person i've been paranoid of all game?

[Caryatid]

...Because in your own words, you had camn locktown, and NMS is her mason partner.

and you'll notice I was still paranoid of her after I had the hood with camn.

[Caryatid]

Let me tell you a little secret about mastin.

Though, me calling KMD my mason-buddy was actually me specifically as scum buddying KMD.

You have to understand that I did my standard treatment of neighborhoods in Biochemistry.

That being, my standard stance. "Let's treat everyone as conftown in here as if it were a masonry." I do this literally every single time I land a neighbor role, even in games where everyone is in a neighborhood.

[Caryatid]

CAMN HASN'T SHED A SINGLE MOMENT OF DOUBT ABOUT MASTINA, AND CONSIDERING THIS IS LYLO GIVEN HER OWN ROLE

CAMN WOULD BE SMART ENOUGH TO SAY THAT IT'S NOT MASONS

SORRY NOT SORRY

it wasn't LYLO last night when I was making my decision.

[Caryatid]

I don't think this is honestly that big of a deal, because fundamentally while there is a town reason to give me the gun somewhere I'm sure there's definitely a scum one too.

Bigger thing is more like, okay, you're town Carya, let's find the scum. Where are they? VNB...me? kmd? Imperium? camn+NMS?

P-Edit: Yep, saw that myself in a gambit that made me scumread her in camn's revenge.

vnb, kmd, and probably-not-nms-after-all so fuck if I know. if it's you then we've already lost. I'm still townreading imperium based on Tammy's posts because I feel like she was definitely outside her scumrange here. Camn and NMS have claimed masons. so I guess it does leave you and kmd and vnb. and if that's so then I've fucked us all over because me/vnb has to be resolved today but if you're scum then you have two kills tonight. but it's either you or ginngie right now for the third, for me.

I need to read ISOs so i can make sense of everything that's happened. It's a lot to take in and I'm slow. I can't get reads off this talking to people and having conversations shit. and this is all coming at a time when i don't have the concentration available to bring my best self to the table.

[Caryatid]

why should i give a gun to the person i've been paranoid of all game?

This is a shit reason when a much better reason would be simpler and you'd know it off of my personality:

Why give a gun to a person who utterly loathes the responsibility associated with it?

That's the answer you should have given because you are QUITE familiar with my hatred of the vig role.

Let me tell you a little secret about mastin.

Though, me calling KMD my mason-buddy was actually me specifically as scum buddying KMD.

You have to understand that I did my standard treatment of neighborhoods in Biochemistry. That being, my standard stance. "Let's treat everyone as conftown in here as if it were a masonry." I do this literally every single time I land a neighbor role, even in games where everyone is in a neighborhood.

Fuck it.
I wanted to wait until I got confirmation but I can't after this.

VOTE: Caryatid.
Not town in any universe whatsoever + we have night talk = I don't care about my vote.

yes, that's true too. I knew you would holster. I had multiple reasons for not targetting you.

[Caryatid]

Carya, you're really not making the points that need to be made here if you're town. I get that small accusations against you are also important to respond to, but these responses are like trying to rake leaves with a fork. You need to get the sweeping stuff, and so far you haven't really done that ("No way my role is broken if I'm scum!" is exactly what a scum vig-maker says, and it's really not true)

NMS voting, see: Floor it video, we really have learned nothing whatsoever.

I know. I should stop responding to people and work on my ISO of VNB. I just haven't been mislynched as town since that one time with mastin when I was a newbie and it rankles. I keep trying to make lunch and then getting sucked in.

[Caryatid]

Coming back to this ISO now that I know they're scum and now that I've had something I'm going to call dinner:

Spoiler: 253

ugh now I'M bored

TAMMY

i'm working my way through a bottle of bailey's come hang out w me

I'm way more likely to drink that then

she

is~

I can already tell logging into this at work is going to be an ADVENTURE. Initial impressions:

Prism/camn

early argument looked productive in two people seeking to understand each other, which I associate with town.

Ginngie

seems like that stubborn town problem child who considers paranoid independence more important then getting along.

I don't remember why exactly but

kmd

gave me a negative impression, I think because the vote reasoning doesn't explain why thinking differently about an action is -scummy- as opposed to someone thinking differently. Also because I think it's vogue for scum to try and sound smart and take a side without really saying anything.

Ahsoka Tano

is terrible in the way I thought only

Aristophanes

could make me feel and I want to purge them from this earth.

Vote: Ahsoka Tano

No one else struck me as notable in an alignment way yet.

This is their first substantial post. I think it's unlikely that all of Prism/camn/Ginngie/kmd are town. If they were town then there would be a 25.45% chance repeating of this being an all town list and if they were the type of scum player who cares about mathematics then there would be a 42.42% chance of it being all town but most scum players don't pay attention to the frequency at which they name various players so roughly 95% of the time they would put a scum name or two in here. I used sitesearch to see if Shadoweh was a maths person and it seems like she is but I don't know if she

cares

about combinatorics the way I care about combinatorics, you know? I don't think they would name both their buddies in this post, so after I flip town and prism vigs VND you should look in [ginngie, kmd]. Prism not vigging VND is a scum claim and then you lynch VND day 4 and Prism Day 5.

There's also a decent chance that alt guessing came up in pregame chat, especially since Ahsoka had his e-mail address publically listed at the time.

Spoiler: 258

Do

you

¹ think that's scummy of him² orare you

just jealous he's not giving you the attention you deserve?

³

1. Spiffeh
   
2. Nacho
   
3. This is a dig at Spiffeh, designed to make him look bad, implying it's just about Spiffeh's ego with the aim to make Spiffeh be taken less seriously.

Spoiler: 345

Hii.

I read the game on a call with shadow and apparently this is what I said. She makes me into a mean person.

Heartless

: Prob-town, anti needs to get drunk and post with us, we like Heartless's kmd scumread
Ginngie: obvtown obviously

Cary

: possibly scum, tone is off, scumreads are disgusting but Seems to be asking better questions recently.

Polar

: probably town, nitpicking at us is annoying tunnelly but town motivated, please go sit in the corner with the rest of the town. (You're asking shadow questions about game philosophy at this point that you don't agree with. Although she love talking about it, she think it would be more productive to agree to disagree.)
NoticeMeSempai: Thought we liked the middle of her reads but everything she said about

Ahsoka

is gross because townreading that is gross and we're really worried about the

Spiffeh

easy megawagon because the crazy worrying is crazy. Readlist in 317 compared to the old one is super bad and worrying. Please get Jaereed on the line.
camm: blandly town?

Ahsoka

: Asks stupid questions, never follows up on the answers, they're trying to look busy and don't care about the answers.

Spiffeh

: Bad posting but not alignment indictative posting.

Spiffeh

votes are lazy. Have the

Spiffeh

voters actually played with

Spiffy

before? He is really easy for scum to wagon by existing

People should prolly ask me followup questions

b.

Bella has [camn, ginngie,

heartless, polar, spiffeh

] as town and [

me, ahsoka

] as scum and noticemesenpai seems to be null and [imperium, kmd,

max,

, prism] are left off the list. I'd expect one scum in the townreads here and one in the unmentioneds, since I know that scumreads were all town (I know where you learned that trick, Bella!) and I know that Bella tends to underinteract with her buddies.

Back to back posts with lots of names (this one looks like a readslist but isn't) but separated by about a day, we hear from Shadoweh:

Spoiler: 439

Heartless

: Still town. Yup that's it!
Ginngie: Bella says from experience

Spiffeh

is a pretty easy lynch in the early game because he's a little shitposty, even if his reads in the lategame are really good, he has to get there. Also trying to lie about her personal experience with him would be stupid because he has Paragon beside his name so why the fuck would she make that up? :V If he has a super decent game you could link it, maybe we will even read it!
NMS: You made Bella sad because

you're holding Jae hostage in your QT

Jae isn't coming out to play so Bella is sadly waving to her from the other side of the driver's seat.
Imperium: Interaction with

Spiffeh

in 391 seems geniune
kmd's long post is super-null. It's going back to early game stuff to discuss set-up spec, it doesn't really progress the game, then it throws shade at Prism for being drunk (which is like, the lowest blow, what's wrong with drunkposting yo?). The only good part to us is critiquing

Spiffeh

-wagon but frankly everyone should be doing it so it's an easy target. No moving forward with reads here.
Prism: Regarding post 421, where else have you seen people faking those kind of tone-tells?

Anti

and the imperium hydra are generally really good at that kind of read, and it seems a dangerous thing to fake. Also, what are you trying to achieve by attacking gingies defense: do you just want her to agree with you, or is there something more?

Cary

should definitely answer Prism's 415 about progression of her

Spiffeh

read as he has valid points.

Bella's interpretation of the drawings: Why are we a weird crosshatch? The size seems to indicate how much you care? You sure have big feelings about Imperium and none about

Maxwell

. Also

Heartless

is beautiful. (we like art ok)

people didn't ask us enough questions

This one is almost the opposite in terms of flips. the last one was really green heavy and it looks like this one is going to be red heavy because 42.8571% of you are scum. but it seems like they were just replying to people had posted in that time period.

people replied to:

heartless

, ginngie, nms, imperium, kmd, prism,

me

left over: camn,

polar, ari, maxwell, spiffeh

ok well i was going to see if the leftovers had posted in that time frame but i'm pretty sure camn is town so forget that. The interactions with NMS look like scum/scum to me because I can't shake that feeling about mastina but whatever.

Spoiler: 683

I don't remember playing with mastina before. Is this normal? By 'this' I mean the uhhh, dramatic arguments that don't include uhhhh, facts of any kind.

And on the other hand this is the same kind of catty tone she took with

Spiffeh

so that's a small point towards mastina town.

Spoiler: 919. Nested spoiler converted to a quote to avoid breaking the site

Polar

: Don't agree that town always attacks their wagon. We think

Spiffeh

is frustrated with the gamestate in general, we still don't think

Spiffeh's

scum. Also, saying that scum voting for

Spiffeh

would have to be scum with

Spiffeh

doesn't make sense (840 is very confusing.) We feel that his progression of anger towards his wagon developed naturally and makes sense from his pov even if we don't agree with the anger. (So basically we agree with you that he's town but not because town always does that)

camn: stop flirting with the mod what is this

We've also come to the conclusion we don't have much to say because we're not scumreading the current posters
currently scumreading

maxwell, ahsoka

, possibly mastina, possibly kmd

Bella is very impressed she worked out what the lines in our drawing and is cautiously townreading

cary

because of it (my posts are not scummy damnit)

looking at our picture, there were a lot of straight lines. I ws able to look at other pictures and infer that the more flowing, organic pictures were town reads: therefore all our lines meant she was worried about our slot. however, the colours and size of it made me think she was cautiously optimistic about us. Which she is! I feel weird town reading a drawing of a read because Interpretted it, but maybe tahat just means her thoughts are clear and consistent.

The main thing that stands out about this readslist is how easy it is. The lurkers are scum because they're not posting, and when they do post, their posts are the lacklustre posts that people who are behind always make, because if they were caught up then they wouldn't be lurking. Mastina was lurking by then but she had 34 posts which is more than the rest of them did. Their reasons for their townreads are more creative so some points to their scumgame there but the scumreads are unexciting. and i was swayed here by their reaching out and trying to understand me.

Spoiler: 1063

[(Also I'm not a Jailer, which I think makes me think more aggressively about who to throw in the slammer.)

This is the strangest way of crumbing masoniser that I've ever seen. And Bella didn't crumb it in her usual style in her 1 post so that's also a sign they hadn't figured out their fakeclaim yet.

Spoiler: 1063

Having wagons between

Ahsoka

and

Maxwell

seems productive to me though. I will give a cautious 'yay'. The soothing half is asleep I think. >>

This is exactly what scum would say.

Spoiler: 1066

Maybe tomorrow, I only dance on the graves of red people.

Especially when they know the wagons are flipping town.

I'm going to stop quoting shit and I'm going to go back and use spoiler tags too because this post is getting longer than I meant but in 1100 they spew me and Imperium town by buddying us. and heartless in the next few posts but we already knew that. and buddying Jae starting in 1235 and onwards. okay, fine, mastina's town.

Spoiler: 1366

Bella said she was unsure of this being of some 'town pings' now that Ari is actually posting, but we agree that we will get information either way from this lynch. I could be convinced otherwise but you'd have to point a name and make a good reason for it Ari.

And this is especially gross pivot to explain having been on a mislynch wagon.





End of day 1. tl;dr: town is me, mastina, imperium, camn.

scum is vnb, and two of [prism, ginngie, kmd.]

I think I really fucked up, guys. I'm going to ISO Prism after I finished VNB because we probably have to lynch them toDay.


I'm going to go through day 2 next.

[Caryatid]

But first since Prism linked me to a scum game of hers earlier in our hood, I took a little detour through her mafia QTs to see whether she'd be the sort to lay out strategy for the game starting in pregame, specifically with regard to whether she'd altguess aristophanes and mark him as one of the target mislynches. She didn't really do much pregame strategising in the game she linked me too but she did some Mini 1906, both with strategising with her buddies about how to suck less and then in very early game warning them off the kind of lynchbaity player that's a bit of a trap.

so kinda inconclusive and small sample size but I think she is the sort of player who would do her research on the playerlist.

[Caryatid]

The sun is setting and I'm working on part two! I'm about 60% through their ISO in total. There's a lot fewer maths in part two so far!

[Caryatid]

Night 1

Spoiler: 1390

DW about it Jae. Moaning the past doesn't win any games, time to moan about the future.
Making chocolate vanilla is :V Okay, these plurality deadlines are going to make wagon hunting a problem if more then half the game doesn't have to be on wagons.

Shadoweh isn't particularly bothered by her scumread flipping town. She complains about wagons but she never really follows this point up or addresses what it means. Does she have ideas about how plurality deadlines would change VCA?

Day 2

Spoiler: 1458

Votecounts don't count. :V Don't be so literal, I think the gist of what I meant shone through.

It's 5am for me and Bella is at work so we'll talk later today about where to go next. We haven't thought hard about it but I'm going to start the day voting my next weirdest read.

##Vote: kmd

We made notes that your last large post seemed like a lot of Information instead of analysis. Also your votes sucked donkeys and you sat on a Prism vote until the end phase. Also I've made jokes about responding to people from 30 pages ago so they can never question me about anything relevant and I am suspicious you're actually putting that into practice.

cut: if you waste all of those now you'll have nothing to post when you need votecount buffers.

i didn't want to say this before but everyone knows it who I am what with mastina's "Im not gonna out them I'm just gonna narrow it down to a handful of people most of whom don't play anymore lol," it bothers me how Bella's pretending not to have alt-guessed me. It doesn't bother me that Shadoweh hasn't, and this is a Shadoweh post, because Shadoweh hasn't played with me [much/at all] and I appreciate her not abusing her mod privs (but that should go without saying so it also kind of pinged me that she pointed out in another post that she was being a good mod.) but I really think that by this point in time Bella should've known who I am and would've told Shadoweh the way Mastina knew and told Jae (I'm guessing Jae wouldn't have figured it out on their own anyway.) so in the post Shadoweh is sniping at me for taking things literally when she should know that's what I'm like and as a self-identified robot she should recognise that us robots take things literally. I mean the way I feel about non-literal speech is "why would you say something that isn't true" or "how do you expect people to take what you say seriously if you don't say what you mean" or "it's too much work to figure out whether you're lying or telling the truth if you're going to just alternate between the two at random without telling people that's what you're doing."

Spoiler: 1469

...That's hilarious. I forgot I said that. If you look at

Aristo's

signature though, it's a quote from the game we just played together where I was scumreading him from Day 1 (he was scum in it). Him acting almost the same as in that game made me scumread him harder actually and doubt that the general nice way he feels because he's a nice guy was related to reading him as town.

How do you have blinders that my name comes up in all of his posts? It would have answered the question for you, you tunnelly idiot.

Also this is disingenuous because

Ari's

signature only comes up on

Ari's

posts but for most of the game he was posting as

Ahsoka

where no such quote appears.

Spoiler: 1474

Buttersnap Shitfuckery. I haven't played with

Ari

as town, I've read some of them and he came off stronger at it then in either of these games.

random thought of the day: gingie makin a joke about all of sc townreading her makes me feel like she -is- town?
it's a weirdly self aware thought that I don't think scum would draw attention to.

camn's vote on

ari

is the worst vote by far. The wagon worries us honestly because everyone on there was a townread and statistically that's -unlikely-. (I do think that because of pluality it's possible the majority of scum stayed away from wagoning to put off having to supply strong reads.)

PV's

post after the flip feels fake. Their '3 posts to impress me' feels like gloating knowing

Ari

probably couldn't have caught up fast enough in less then 24 hours to shake the wagon. What alternate would you have suggested if

Ari

did come through? (I know what I would have suggested but you probably wouldn't have gone back to Spiffeh?)

Sempai, when you said 'And for me the suspicious switch isn't

Maxwell

-->

Aristophanes

.
For me the suspicious switch is

Spiffeh

-->

Maxwell

' we're wondering what you meant by that?
We get the gist but did you come to any conclusions about what made it more suspicious?

More reads/thoughts later when we are both free again.

So they just sort of move on to the next mislynch, hohum. They do finally have some thoughts about how scum would behave with plurality lynches but they're super vague about it. They say it's possible scum might've stayed off the wagon compeltely but they don't talk about the people who were off the wagon? not really? i mean they talk a little about senpai and

polar

but do they ever go back through the posts of the non voters to see if any were encouraging the wagon without joining it? if any were staying off it in a way that looked particularly informed? the spout a little mafia theory to make the post sound good but there's no follow through. and "it's possible" is such a weak way of phrasing it. well it's possible scum did this but who knows, not them.

Votecount 1.26

Aristophanes

(5)

~ VNB National Plan,

Caryatid

, Ginngie,

Spiffeh

, camn

Spiffeh

(1)

~ NoticeMeSenpai

Prism (1)

~

Kmd4390

Leonshade

(1)

~ Prism

Not Voting (5)

~ Imperium,

Polar Vortex

,

Aristophanes

,

Heartless

,

Leonshade

13 alive ~ 7 for majority.
Deadline Meter:

0%

If this were Bella posting I'd say she's being a cheeky fuck and there's two scum on the wagon. I admittedly don't have time to research's Shadoweh's capacity for cheek, but hopefully someone else has meta.


Actually, though, thinking back over what I said earlier, about alt-guessing or not, I don't know that Bella would fake a guilty on me if she had alt-guessed me. She'd have to know that I'm not going to go down easy no matter how much real life has kept me away this month. So I guess I retract the bit about robots but it still always gets under my skin when people snipe at me for things I can't help. Bella respects me enough to night kill me if she knows I'm me.

And that means she's not scum with Imperium or NoticeMeSenpai or camn or ...argh i guess that's all the people she can't be scum with and I already knew that. this is frustrating. But Ginngie not being able to figure out that I'm an alt after

Heartless

saying "I know who you are!" and Mastina saying "I know who you are!" and Nacho...admittedly not saying "I know who you are!" but still talking to/about me in a way that made it pretty clear who knew who I was, but I heard Ginngie's posts and it's like now go say some don't you wizards play d*mb you know where we came from you don’t want sauce, no A1

spoilered the d word so nancy won't redact it.

Mastina, can you vouch that Ginngie's really this ditzy as town?

Spoiler: 1476

I do. My ISO should give you a pretty solid idea of them. If not, my top three picks for scum are Ginngie, Prism, and

maxwell

(now

leon

). Top three town are camn,

spiff

, and

cary

.

I don't think your ISO is clear about what you think at all which is the problem. Like..

"Well Ginngie's explanation on that has since changed to late night posting and effectively trolling. My best guess is that it was an attempt to show a lack of fearof being wagoned because it might be associated with a town Ginngie but I'm still confused by it."

You don't sound like you think she's scum.

I mean it does, though? "an attempt to show a lack of fear" is not something town has to do, it's something scum has to do. "trying to look like town Ginngie" is something that town Ginngie would naturally do and scum Ginnie would have to try for. It's weakly worded, sure, but it doesn't sound at all like he thinks she's town. I do think this post is significant because probably one of [Ginngie, Kmd] is scum. If Ginngie is d*mbtelling, as I suspect, then VMB is trying to run interference for their buddy. If Kmd is scum then it's a pretty clumsy interaction because where can Kmd go from here? All he can say "I do too sound like I think she's scum" and then there's been some noise in the thread. I should stop fence sitting on this but I can't, my read on this post is like a yo-yo. Hopefully I can resolve it over the next few posts.

Spoiler: 1495

That's a terrible reason to say one of us is scum, camn.

This is referring to

Polar Vortex

/ Ginngie / VNB and uh if you think everyone in that group is town then why are you wasting our time arguing with the other members of the group?

I have to skip posts like 1631 because my brain can't cope with abbreviations anymore tonight, it just reboots everytime i try.

Spoiler: 1761

camn: 1687 isn't how the Slayer's Gambit works. Bella is really angry at how artificial it is. Just play normally so you don't confuse town roles.

kmd: our problem isn't your work schedule, it's your progression in the game, you seem quite happy to argue minutae. Even now you answered that post with something we weren't asking about which was why did you do the style change to answering 40 pages ago when it's not the way you usually seem to play. Like you're still talking about the irrelevant drunk comements from RVS and it's so pointless. Your comment in 1712 about us staying on the wagon, at that point it was a deadline lynch. Where exactly did you expect us to go?

Polar

: Bella doesn't understand the context of 1729, I said you probably mean town in the same context as inno but she doesn't understand why you're talking about clears since no one has said that about kmd. 1723 seems genuine and full of confliction about reads, we like confused feelings. We think we just hate one of your heads (the bear one prolly ).

Leon's

claim seems complicated as a fakeclaim, but no one's confirmed his target which the person he targetted should be able? He was also going to post more last night which was 24 hours ago.

Prism: What are you reading in kmd that we're really not seeing that makes you think they're town?

We are quite sad that Imperium and

Spiffeh

around around (yay Imperium posts!) because we feel lost in a sea of scumfucks without them.

IGNORE THE WOMAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN

As an aside, I do like that they clarified that they weren't going after kmd for real life; it certainly read like that's what they were doing earlier because they characterised it as "inability to play the game" instead of "doing scummy things while here." I know they're scum but I like this for non-alignment indicative reasons. They're too persistent in their push on kmd to be bussing. Final answer.

End of day 2. I can't do much more language tonight but I'll try to finish and then do more ISOs tomorrow.

[Caryatid]

Looking closer at that wall.

253 paragraph is weird, you appear to be under the impression that VNB gave kmd as a townread. The quote implies that VNB has a negative impression of them.

No, not under that impression. When a player is deciding whether to townread a buddy or scumread them, if they have any competence at all, they'll do it based on how their buddy is playing and how others are reading them and whether it makes sense to have that read / could they write a few sentences to explain the read if someone asked them about it, so different situations call for the buddy to be in different positions on a readslist. But straight up mentioning players within a single post, scum are more likely to have an unusual ratio of mentioning their buddies, either mentioning too much or too little and when there are 3-4 names in a post then usually a buddy's name creeps in because it feels unbalanced to have the list be all town. it's not a 100% tell of course and it doesn't take much to subvert it either but a town player mentioning 3 names early on is going to produce an all scum list in 3/12*2/11*1/10 = 1/220 cases, or about a half a percent of the time and an all town list in 9/12*8/11*7/10 = 84/220 = about 38% of the time and a list with exactly one scum in it 9/12*8/11*3/10*3 = 108/220 ~49% of the time (the 3 at the end is because that scum could be in position 1, position 2, or position 3) and they'd mention exactly two scum in 9/12*3/11*2/10*3 = 27 / 220 = ~ 12% of the time...sorry I'm tired and I can only speak math now. The numbers are more complicated with 4 names but the point is that scum aren't going to follow that pattern, they're going to follow the more intuitive pattern of "i talked about a lot of people in this post so i should talk about one of my buddies too".

345 and 429 are not really cases and are trying way too hard to play the WIFOM game.

no it's more of the same from 253.

683...okay? 919's reads are pretty natural imo, coming from someone who had largely the same. 1063 is literally a cop soft-she's not a jailer, but she picks who to throw in the slammer-and that's how she characterized her role earlier when assembling the list, and in general how she has approached it (Opting for players she wanted to lock down+were null to scumleans).

oh. It makes sense now that you explain it.

1063 is also exactly what town whose top scumreads are Maxwell and Ahsoka say. I do concur that 1366 doesn't read great but just in general this has been a really not-great wall from you.

ok.

[Caryatid]

Oh wait I did want to make one point that I nearly forgot:

Shadoweh isn't particularly bothered by her scumread flipping town. She complains about wagons but she never really follows this point up or addresses what it means. Does she have ideas about how plurality deadlines would change VCA?

You literally watched me flip the wagon from Leon to Polar, who subsequently flipped town, and then gave me a gun anyway.

Your opener in the PT never doubted I was town at all or showed any sign of trying to investigate me for alignment, but instead was postured more towards winning my trust and helping guide the shot. You already said before that "all scum has to do is pick a town likely to misshoot and gently guide their hand" and you picked camn, and apparently influenced her enough to have her say "we shot Spiffeh".

Come on, Carya.

I was literally half asleep and wasn't really processing what was going on yet. I gave you a gun because I thought you were town. I had this kind of read on you and that's not the kind of read that's easy for me to go back on or describe because it's a tangle of colours in my head but I don't think that being wrong now and then is a scumtell, and unlike VNB, I remember you showing remorse about being wrong in some of your posts. I remember reading your posts and feeling like you were frustrated or upset or disappointed. I am doubting it now while reading through VNB'S ISO but I want to reread your ISO before I have a final answer there. Also, I just didn't want you to be scum. I don't want to be the one single-handedly lost us the game by handing a gun to scum. Maybe my ego got in the way of seeing that this morning. I don't know. But I'm going to find out.

[Caryatid]

Bella hasn't alt-guessed you. I also think outting an alt if you're trying to be different is a shitty thing to do. I don't think anyone knows who you are besides Mastina and she should keep it to herself if she does. I didn't even alt-guess Ahsoka which made that whole thing hilarious.

I appreciate this stance, thank you.

[Caryatid]

yeah, i should've. giving it to someone else was camn's idea and i really liked that she never asked who i was going to give the second shot to. i was already hard townreading her by then but it was just another thing from her that I liked.

[Caryatid]

I don't have much to say about day 3 because obviously it was all setup for faking a guilty on me. It was well done and well prepared and I understand why people want to lynch me in light of that. if it weren't MYLO I wouldn't be fighting it this hard because when I flip town you'll know they're scum and if we could trust Prism to shoot them after lynching me then you could do mylo tomorrow again without me but we have to figure this out today. Also I'm running out of words and need to go to bed soon so this has been my post by post analysis of day 3.

[Caryatid]

If Prism is scum and you gave him a vig aren't you worried that the game is already over? It seems like you'd be freaking out more about that.

Yes that's exactly why I am freaking out.

[Caryatid]

Being pedantic, but I don't think your math argument holds up that well. You seem to think that there's an "average" frequency of mentions of scum, different for scum and town. I would first take issue with this in that it really is very dependent on gamestate who is mentioned, but in general let's assume it's some kind of normal for scum mentions as town. Even if you go a standard deviation out, which is going to be a fair amount, 32% of the town will still go outside of it. Determining what that standard frequency is, what a standard deviation is, what the distribution looks like specifically for scum, all really vague and difficult to pin down things that are incredibly important. I'm skeptical of this idea that it works that way to begin with, but even if it does I don't think it's great.

The math also in general isn't saying much about VNB's alignment. The 4 people they chose to respond to have a 25% chance of being all town, okay? This isn't really saying much, even with only one post that's fairly likely, throw in multiple and it happens a lot. They responded on 4 people, if they were all scum you'd be bringing that up instead, if there were only one you would cite that as what? (and it does seem likely that kmd is scum) The causal link here is really tenuous

P-Edit: Haven't read the above, getting to it now.

I've caught scum this way before, it works for me. Like it works better when we're in 3p and the flipped scum keep naming 3 people and two of them are town and one of them is 1 of the people in lylo with me and never the other person in lylo with me.

It's not just the one post it's the pattern of mentions over the pattern of posts and where people end up and you're right that it's about as much like reading tea leaves as VCA is because every game is different and every situation is different, but which names keep coming up matters.

[Caryatid]

Carya, can you explain why I am scum?

not without ISOing you beyond "VNB spewed a bunch of people town and that leaves you in a very small pool," but I'm not so foolish as to make definite reads based on a scumplayer's ISO. The scumplayer's ISO gives me a roadmap of which players to pay more attention to and who to ISO next. Associatives can be faked.

Like okay, you tried on VNB, I personally thing that was a pretty big swing and miss as far as making a case on them goes. Mixed feelings about whether the intent is really there or not (Trying to seem like you're trying to figure it out, over making an actual case, is totally valid and a natural reaction...but also trivial to fake)

Let's step up to bat. Me next. Let's go.

Yes, you next. After sleep.

[Caryatid]

But shouldn't Prism's lynch take priority over VNB's in this case?

Yes. But I

know

that VNB is scum. I don't know about Prism. She says I should know she's town by now because they haven't quickhammered but in a recent game I saw scum slowroll it for a day just for the lols + Imperium has said they have something else up their sleeve and other town players may also be holding something back; if the scumteam just piles right onto me, they're putting themselves at some risk that they may yet be screwed by night actions. If this were an open setup then they could afford to quickhammer but I can understand a cautious scumteam wanting to play it by the books and not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by a careless misstep.

The fact that Prism hasn't quickhammered me is a nice sign but it'd be a nicer one if she weren't pointing to it so much. I'm going to do this by the books and read through her ISO now.

[Caryatid]

If both VNB and Prism are scum then absolutely we have to lynch Prism today and VNB tomorrow.

Also it's 5 to lynch not 4 and Ginngie is in the pool of people who might be scum so no, Prism isn't clear yet.

[Caryatid]

If you were town why were you trying to dumbtell earlier

[Caryatid]

VOTE: Notice

Skeptical of that vague claim. Feels more like a gambit than them actually pondering anything. (Should I claim this? When? How to do so? Soft or hard claim? All things to discuss with the hydra partner. Possibly done pregame, but for now going to doubt it.)

Alright that's all I've got for now I'm not part of the circlejerk and I'm not going to try to be.

Someone call me in a few hours/days

I remembered her later saying she'd only played with Mastina once and hadn't paid much attention to her there so I looked it up, and she played with Mastina in British Monarchy, who was part of the woodcutter's hydra and she did mention mastina only a few times, choosing to interact Nacho a lot more. They were both town.

However she also played with Mastina in camn's revenge, and in that game she mentions Mastina a good deal in her ISO, spends a long time picking at her playstyle but ultimately townreads her correctly. I think after two games of playing with Mastina, Prism should be more used to Mastina's playstyle than she is.

Mastina opens camn's revenge with speculation about how alignments were assigned in the draft and then saying she *wants* to soft but won't because of who the scumteam likely is which is an indication that softing is what Mastina would normally be doing.

In British Monarchy, Mastina opens ... okay this is weird, she doesn't soft anything, and all the opening posts are really short even though some are in her style. So I guess Prism has seen an example of Mastina not softing anything (will wonders never cease) as a VT, though this is the game where she wasn't paying attention to Msatina anyway so whatever.

Anyway, Prism has seen Mastina vagueclaiming as town PR in camn's revenge and not vagueclaiming as VT and I'm doing pomodoros today so you never have to read more than 25 minutes of reading/researching/writing in one post and so that I can alternate with some chores as well.

[Caryatid]

Am I supposed to alt hunt?

>_>

No, you're not supposed to alt hunt. You're supposed to have heard of the concept of alts before, to interpret "I have played with Caryatid before" as "this is not Caryatid's first game of mafia", to be not thoroughly and utterly confused by the concept that a person might have more than one account, especially after a bunch of people said "I know who Cary is" and then you're like:

Jae is scumreading Caryatid and at this point I'm not inclined to disagree. I know that I always read Caryatid as town regardless of their alignment so I know I don't have the ability to actually tell when Caryatid is scum and when I see shit like this I'm right there along-side Jae thinking that yes it actually is the Caryatid who is scum since moments like this fundamentally feel wrong and in addition to the wrongness there's also how a scum-Caryatid also fills in the gaps in a scumteam nicely in that it explains the gamestate and why it's been so hard to lock scum down.

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You're doing me a confuse

I don't expect you to figure out who I am even with mastina saying "I'm not going to say who it is i'm just going to narrow it down to a tiny handful of people" because you

don't

know me but you've already seen an example in this very game that a person can be playing on a brand new account, Ahsoka, and yet be somebody that people know and have played with before.

[Caryatid]

Specifically, use of "I" language really makes me doubt that it's either well thoughtout or discussed. Discussion of a gambit along the lines of "Hey I'm going to do this is that cool?" "Sure" more likely.

This nitpicky and so is 72 but I think Prism might just that kind of player and that it's null, but I'm going to look through the games she linked to check.

Scum:
In Mini 1838, the main thing that's sticking out at me is she goes on these rambles about mafia theory here and there. She's not particularly nitpicky though; she's careful to attack people for reasons she can substantiate, call their posts bad or says she doesn't like their vote or whatever but doesn't get nitpicky about language actually. There's another thing she's doing here that I don't want to say what it is in case it turns out to be an actual tell for her.

In Owners Market, she again spends a while early on talking about mafia theory and setup stuff. Doesn't do the thing I noticed in 1838 though so maybe not an actual tell.

In Sakura wars she seems to be signing in her hydra so I'll read it. She does the setup spec thing again !!! Also, I think Prism as scum realises that this kind of nitpicky stuff that pings her as town just isn't compelling to anybody but her so she doesn't bother trying to emulate it because nitpicking and semantics are usually considered a scumtell.

Miss list - more setup spec, no nitpicking.


Town:
Newbie 1805 - she does do some setup spec here because it's a newbie and she likes that bp strategy but she doesn't open with it. she's not as distracted by it as she gets in her scumgames. Also, some of the other posts in her iso make it clear that she didn't start it. Also, she seems to be sort of filling in as an SE for a string of absentee ICs. I'll be more interested in if she does this outside the newbie queue. She's also a lot less nitpicky than she was here, at least early on.

British Monarchy - she opens nitpicking a smiley, and then someone's use of the phrase "never change". And she doesn't get distracted by rambling about mafia theory or setup spec!

Trial of the Evoker - she opens respondign to some setup spec but calls ita distraction and says she doesn't want to talk about it anymore. she does get distracted whining about hydras. Someone else accuses of her nitpicking in here and she says she's not being nitpicky. she's not being nitpicky the way she was this game but her reads do have a bit of squirrlyness to them like she's thinking several layers deep and squinting really hard. I think as scum she relies more on charisma and presenting her thoughts in ways others will find compelling than she does even in games like this where she's not being that nitpicky. Also, she uses a lot of bold in her ISO here which is what I was noticing in the first scum game I looked at and remembering she hadn't used much bold here but I think now that this just doesn't mean anything either way, some games she uses more some games she uses less and it doesn't seem correlated with her alignment at all.

Buttersnap - Opens with a little setup spec. maybe that's not a tell for her. ohhhh she seems to have a post restriction that she has to talk about the mod or praise him in all her posts. that kind of explains the setup talk. k. she's also coming in fairly late here and I can't figure out what she's saying in her first substantial post at all. Scum vegito attacks her for nitpicking here actually and she defends her right to find things noteworthy that other people don't care about. I can't understand any of her poitns in 417 either. what the hell. I'm kinda dizzy too. gonna move on to the next game.

perfect blue - i can't understand any of these posts i think they're not about setup spec?

can't words anymore, maybe more words later today. thought it was gonna scumread her entrance but now think this nitpicking not trying to be compelling more likely town but need to read rest of iso need to think more. just this snetrance is a better time that it thought it were

[Caryatid]

You haven't tried to convince me you are town all day.
You can't look me in the eye in the face of your betrayal of my trust, can you?

I am town for my scumhunting and town for my play and town for my role PM which I can't post into the game thread. If I were scum I would have targetted Ginngie, not Prism last night. Ginngie was townreading me, I could have said I wasn't worried about her anymore or that I trusted Nacho-who-probably-hasn't-read-her-recent-posts and Mastina-who-I-didn't-really-trust to read her correctly. I crumbhunt as both alignments but I think I would have understood Shadoweh's crumbs if I were scum because I would have enough information about the setup to understand what she was saying. If I were scum, I would have known there was a possibility that someone would investigate me and would have been on the alert for it; I would have understood what Prism was doing in the neighbourhood instead of being utterly baffled by why she was saying she was pretty sure I was scum. And if I hadn't understood it then, I would have understood it when VNB wanted me to be one of the first to claim when I'd been one of their top townreads but I didn't understand because I'm town so it's impossible for someone to have a guilty on me. I am not actually capable of faking emotion as scum so I have to get the job done with my real emotions.

And I'm town because I have spent as much of the day as I could doing ISOs instead of writing a towncase for myself, and because I am going to return to that activity after this interlude because everyone is sitting around waiting for me to solve the game for them.


@Bella your anger post made me laugh: I am indeed not Thor the Crayola God.... but i found this on google

[Caryatid]

Okay again, there is nothing alignment indicative there.

Explain or get a vote

Too bad I don't care what you think and have already done both of the latter.

this is confusing because nobody is voting prism so why does she says she's done both of get a vote?

I still like 91 after all this time because i mix up words too. probably null but i like it anyway. spekaing of which i should probably translate what i was trying to say earlier:

can't words anymore, maybe more words later today. thought it was gonna scumread her entrance but now think this nitpicking not trying to be compelling more likely town but need to read rest of iso need to think more. just this snetrance is a better time that it thought it were

I can't do words anymore, but maybe I can do more words later today. I thought that I was going to scumread her entrance, but now I think that this nitpicking and this not trying to be compelling is more likely to come from townPrism but I need to read the rest of her ISO first and think about it some more. It's just that this entrance is a better sign than I thought it was.

--

Yes, I am 100% sure of mastina's alignment based off of this single thing alone, having played with them a grand total of once and having never paid much attention to her during that time.

Which of the two games that you played with her did you mean here?

--

Spoiler: matching

I honestly dont get the sarcasm.

I obviously don't understand what you're thinking here.

I think a gambit setup (scum) is marginally more likely than a legitimate soft (town). That is literally it. My first guess after reading the first 2/3 pages. Specifically, I think the off-the-cuff response to Heartless immediately giving some loose detail is more likely to indicate the former (scum mastina trying something with quick "ok" from jae) than the latter (mastina/jae having talked out exactly how to claim). Neither of them could be true. Town Mastina might just have gone with it.

This is a first pass, not me knowing the ins and outs of mastina's mind, not me deathtunneling mastina.

This is a toss it out, let's see where this goes and what people's reactions are to it deal.

You got quotes because a page of asking shit I've already answered is exactly what I didn't want.

matches

You mean a little blurb highlighting ten posts from 250 posts ago?

Why does this render it irrelevant or unimportant? Why should I feel compelled to take note of posts I find altogether disinteresting and comparatively more difficult to parse for alignment?

Sorry, mate, the game moved on. Try harder.

Yet, it has not.

Am I not giving thoughts, or am I not giving the thoughts that

you

want? If the answer is the latter, what specifically are you looking for my thoughts on-you've already gotten my blanket statement for posts outside of the sequence.

Belisarius, thank you so much for bringing me into this game. You are like a blanket that keeps all of MS warm.

Spoiler: exchange with ginnie

It would definitely help, but I also again could have just realized that was the problem on my own instead of assuming my paragraphs are perfectly phrased and easily parsed rather then just rephrasing the answer.

I'm not a big fan of the Spiffeh wagon at the moment. I think the initiative he's taking on Imperium is good even if I don't agree with it. (I'm probably biased as well-I'm a player whose best reads come from how players react to me specifically, rather than looking at their interactions with others)

Join me on Max?

I kinda want to how the spiff wagon rides out, if you said stuff about max I'l read it and give them a once over

Nope, I haven't. Just a hunch.

I think scumPrism would've supplied more of a reason than "Just a hunch."



I have more words than I did but not enough. I hope someone will understand what I'm trying to say anyway.

[Caryatid]

If both VNB and Prism are scum then absolutely we have to lynch Prism today and VNB tomorrow.

Also it's 5 to lynch not 4 and Ginngie is in the pool of people who might be scum so no, Prism isn't clear yet.

So why don't you seem to be considering a vote on prism? (I should say "didn't" because it looks like you're trying to sort prism now")

[Caryatid]

1)

If Prism is scum and you gave him a vig aren't you worried that the game is already over? It seems like you'd be freaking out more about that.

Yes that's exactly why I am freaking out.

You gave a vig to Prism...?
This is exactly the reason I tend to overreact when people townread him for random as shit reasons - Prism has the strongest scumgame out of everyone here and I've trumpeted that from pretty much every mountaintop and you gave a vig to Prism? Why?

because townreading Prism

[Caryatid]

everything gonna be ok, nacho's here

[Caryatid]

nacho i did some posts on prism iso. will finish them tomorrow. starts in 2246. part i care about most: 2253. do you think i on the right track?