Mini 1974: Pokemon Sapphire Mafia [Game over]

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Cheetory6

Spoiler: detailed reasoning

[Aeronaut]

If you were to rate how much of a threat I am vs Marquis, who is more of a threat

[Aeronaut]

why though

Marquis is so nice and we're all snapchat friends?! that's not threatening.


P-EDIT @Cheet

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Cheetory

bye

[Aeronaut]

Oh dang wait, this is not a micro.

VOTE: Cheetory
VOTE: Cheetory
VOTE: Cheetory


ok day over.

[Aeronaut]

Same tbh

p-edit oh

[Aeronaut]

Tbh I was only voting Cheetory to figure out if he's town so that we may be best friends, but I'm convinced enough of that to steal Marquis' idea

VOTE: LUV

[Aeronaut]

cool, real wagon time.

[Aeronaut]

Gave what away?

[Aeronaut]

oh I didn't decide you're town yet, I just decided you weren't being that scummy atm so I felt like I wanted to switch my vote to someone who I felt differently about.

[Aeronaut]

Lol.

[Aeronaut]

Luv, is your vote RVS or RealFeel(tm)

[Aeronaut]

Oh, Chara is confirmed town. Everyone knows you can't say you've rolled town if you didn't!

[Aeronaut]

LUV, explain your vote to me, if it's not RVS. Because currently you have 1 post with something related to your reads, and 6 more that have to do with asking people why they're voting you.

[Aeronaut]

That whole interaction kind of made me feel icky to be really honest

[Aeronaut]

Wisdom, is having shallow reads and buckling under almost zero pressure something Kaede is incapable of as scum?

[Aeronaut]

so then why would that affect anything

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Wisdom

[Aeronaut]

There's better shit to do.

[Aeronaut]

nah.

P-edit THAT'S your argument? I'm too polite?

okkkkk

[Aeronaut]

Wording it another way, it feels less like town genuine read progression and more like scum!Aeronaut seeing Wisdom start to get pressured between page 3/4 and being like "ok let's create a realistic looking series of post leading up to voting him"

I was the first one to vote wisdom, or to pressure wisdom.

[Aeronaut]

If anything Marquis, should you not be worried about Wisdom for creating scum theatre? He created that awful set of posts on page 4 and then hopped right off that wagon with some thin-ass reasoning which I explained my thoughts on here.

[Aeronaut]

LUV/Marquis/Wisdom, 2017

[Aeronaut]

Yes.

Can you tell me how Marquis' switch to me makes any sense? I guess I could be biased since it's on me, but to me it REALLY looks like he's trying to get any focus off of Wis atm.

[Aeronaut]

He's blaming me instead of Wis for derailing the LUV wagon, and then he's complaining that I don't have enough emotion? The game has been seven pages, that is an awful argument.

[Aeronaut]

I'd much rather see about Wis atm though, because I'm definitely more sure about that rn.

[Aeronaut]

Wording it another way, it feels less like town genuine read progression and more like scum!Aeronaut seeing Wisdom start to get pressured between page 3/4 and being like "ok let's create a realistic looking series of post leading up to voting him"

this is him blaming me for the wagon fizzling.

[Aeronaut]

Point 1 is that he feels like your tone is off.
Point 2 is that he doesn't believe your Wisdom push/that it feels manufactured.
Point 3 is an elaboration on point 2 with a caveat of him saying that he feels like your tone is off.

The posts following are him saying that it feels like you're pushing scum theater.

Yeah, I understand what his posts are saying, but what I'm saying is that it really doesn't make much sense to be calling it scum theatre when he's literally townreading Wis.

[Aeronaut]

oh, wait then I'm less confused I guess?

I'm still feeling like even that is a huge stretch though; Like how does this make sense.

Aeronaut begins wagon on LUV, his scumbuddy. Page 2.
Aeronaut points out that LUV has contributed nothing of value.
Wisdom, townie, jumps off LUV wagon.
Aeronaut then berates Wisdom for jumping off Aeronaut's scumbuddy's wagon

[Aeronaut]

If anything, it would have made a ton more sense for Marquis to read Wisdom as being the one creating scum theatre with LUV, wouldn't it? Wisdom's thing with LUV felt fake as shit.

[Aeronaut]

Aeronaut begins wagon on LUV, his scumbuddy. Page 2.
Aeronaut points out that LUV has contributed nothing of value.
Wisdom, townie, jumps off LUV wagon.
Aeronaut then berates Wisdom for jumping off Aeronaut's scumbuddy's wagon

+Aeronaut then also leaves LUVwagon.

I thought it was pretty clear that I left for Wis to answer me, which he didn't.

Again, I feel like you're partially focusing moreso on lesser details than on the fact that Marquis is saying he's reading your tone as scum.

I'm not focusing on that because how do I refute "Your tone is scum!". There's nothing to talk about there. If he wants the believe that, then sure, but what am I supposed to say, "No, my tone is not scum"?

If you don't think Marquis would be feeling this way about your tone here if he were town, you could/should be focusing moreso on that, because from where I'm standing it more or less comes across as you picking at sidepoints instead of the meat and potatoes of what he's saying.

There is no world in which "he has a scum tone" is a meat and potatoes argument.

[Aeronaut]

I thought it was pretty clear that I left for Wis to answer me, which he didn't.

But you can understand how that makes it less easy to disqualify you as a LUVpartner by your own argument, which is the point I'm trying to get at, not that it means you're scum with LUV.

Sure, but Marquis is treating is that way, e.g. why it doesn't make sense.

I'm not focusing on that because how do I refute "Your tone is scum!". There's nothing to talk about there. If he wants the believe that, then sure, but what am I supposed to say, "No, my tone is not scum"?

There is no world in which "he has a scum tone" is a meat and potatoes argument.

Do you think townMarquis could/would read your tone so far this game as scummy?
Because I think that's frankly a more interesting/important question.[/quote]
No, I don't.

And Aero, I'll be frank, you seem really on edge.

Do I? I've also got a final in a few hours, so that could be it.

[Aeronaut]

There's just a lot of engagement/gamedriving energy that I would associate with a townMarquis who's trying to get things done, rather than a scumMarquis trying to manipulate things.
Is that not coming across for you too?
I honestly thought it was obvious.
Lol

The last time I actually remember playing with Marquis was 180 where you and I were scum together. Which I don't remember that much of him there tbh.

I'm more attributing it not to Marquis personally, but instead as "any player who pushes something that makes no sense at all this hard is probably scum".

[Aeronaut]

do you know Kaede's play, Aero?

Nope

[Aeronaut]

Also in retrospect, I really do think that Marquis calling LUV scum and never ever voting for him and "forgetting" to hammer is kind of shifty tbh.

[Aeronaut]

if luv is scum or town, since either way the blood really isn't on marquis's hands

[Aeronaut]

if luv is scum or town, since either way the blood really isn't on marquis's hands

if Marquis didn't want blood on his hands if LUV is town, why even declare intent to hammer?

well you know I was thinking it was to distance himself from LUV, but actually that doesn't make sense if he sort of started the wagon

[Aeronaut]

I'm more attributing it not to Marquis personally, but instead as "any player who pushes something that makes no sense at all this hard is probably scum".

you really can't understand someone reading your tone as scum? even wrongly?
i mean, you're probably town, so i don't know why i'm still asking, but.

the metric you're using here certainly applies to LUV, though.

not the tone, the reasoning.

Tone is a really arguement to lead with, because it will always be irrefutable.

[Aeronaut]

i actually should go study for my final, because maybe I really am OMGUSing marquis here because I'm very aware he's wrong, instead of trying to figure out why.

[Aeronaut]

Hi peeps, I'm back around, so wall incoming probs

[Aeronaut]

forced and overly-justifyied RVS votes when we aren't in RVS? it's more likely than you think.
VOTE: Luca

Ironically this feels pretty forced tbh.

There was literally no idea presented.

Absolutely no hesitation in spite of nobody else seeing it that way?

Nope.

LUV, explain your vote to me, if it's not RVS. Because currently you have 1 post with something related to your reads, and 6 more that have to do with asking people why they're voting you.

If you think I’m scum, why do you want me explain the reasoning for my vote?

... because scum don't have any real reasoning for voting, so me asking you is me seeing if you're scum. Feel free to answer that at any point too, btw.

Please quote the 6+ posts of me asking people why they’re voting for me. All I’ve done is ask what idea you and Cheetory are referring to.

That's equally not helpful to town in any way.

2) How is it overly-justified? I was asked a direct question and answered it.

referring to the justification within the vote-posts, not the conversations.

fair enough on the first point, but why do you need three RVS posts instead of commentary on what's transpired so far?

LUV: would you respond to my post as well? :>

Missed it. My bad.

I’m not caught up in semantics. Marquis stating that he thinks I’m scum is not an idea, so I’m not sure why it’s being treated as one.

The second sentence is you being caught up in semantics, btw.

Chara town

Do you still feel this way?

For anyone

What do you think about Kokichi?

@ Cheetory, you knowing creature's scum game, does this mean anything re: kokichi? Idk how scum creature flails tbh

Luca you should join the Creature wagon.
It's a great one.

Also, Cheet is almost definite town after yesterday imo

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: LUV

This should never have died

Nothing has jumped out at me that made we want vote Creature

Really feeling like Not Mafia is scum here, curbing away from creature wagon until the last minute.

VOTE: Creature

L-1

I'll just stop derping around, Cheet is right this is 95% Creature's scum game.
VOTE: Creature

These votes are both bad and very last minute, especially since Kaede only was into voting creature after two people gave their intent. Call it joking around or whatever, but at the end of the day you still weren't joining until you absolutely had to.

VOTE: Aero

Wrong.

VOTE: Aero.

Wrong.

VOTE: Aero

Wrong.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Correct.

Tbh I was only voting Cheetory to figure out if he's town so that we may be best friends, but I'm convinced enough of that to steal Marquis' idea

VOTE: LUV

This is scum

Yeah, why exactly? Kind of strange that you're citing this post from RVS that you really could have picked up on at any point but just didn't until a day later?

[Aeronaut]

I'd rather lynch the guy who was reluctant as f*ck to lynch Creature for no apparent reason, before suddenly being overly-keen to lynch him when it was a forgone conclusion.

Luca = town.

It's d2, it's a little early to speculate bussing. Scum is more likely to have saidlittle or. ext to nothing about Creature.

It really isn't, though? This really reads to me as if Smocaine is just trying to stifle the obvious conversation of who was bussing and who wasn't / is setting himself up not to be a part of that conversation.

I'll just stop derping around, Cheet is right this is 95% Creature's scum game.
VOTE: Creature

I'm wondering why it took Kaede so long to join the wagon when she was so sure this was Creature's scum game.

Yep

I'll vote him if someone puts him to L-2

Saying this at L-3 holds almost no weight.

[Aeronaut]

Am I the only one who's felt like Luca's been setting up n_m off of Creature's lynch since the moment he voted Creature?
:/

Eh, you're probably not the only one but I really don't see it that way. When I was catching up, I kind of starting feeling the same way before Luca posted about it a little while later.

To me, a N_M wagon will probably not give useful pressure as he's more likely to just continue giving non-answers, non-detailed answers or just clam up until we either lynch him or move on.
I feel like LUV is a little more sortable at this stage.

I feel like this is kind of a bad reason to not wagon someone, tbh. Like, if someone is going to give us non-answers all game, we should just try to figure them out now instead of later when things could be more tenuous.

No. Don’t think you would bus Creature there.

Can you point out Aero reactions that you feel make him scum and talk about why?

Don’t really have time to talk about why but here:

cool, real wagon time.

Luv, is your vote RVS or RealFeel(tm)

LUV, explain your vote to me, if it's not RVS. Because currently you have 1 post with something related to your reads, and 6 more that have to do with asking people why they're voting you.

Also in retrospect, I really do think that Marquis calling LUV scum and never ever voting for him and "forgetting" to hammer is kind of shifty tbh.

if luv is scum or town, since either way the blood really isn't on marquis's hands

That sure is my ISO.

Not sure honestly. It’s just so hard for me to stay engaged as town and I haven’t really been encouraged to this game. Creature flipping scum didn’t really change much for me other than make me feel confident enough to place you and Kaede in my town pile.

I voted for Kaede because her initial reason for scum reading me amounted to gut. It didn’t feel like how town talks about a gut read or pursues it. I didn’t see her really trying to figure out why she feels that way about me in order to follow through her reasoning and develop a solid read others can follow. I saw scum using gut as a means of justification for being on my wagon.

What then put Kaede into your town pile though? Because Kaede's hammer really didn't give me townvibes at all.

still seeing Chara as a strong townread

prob town is Cheet and Luca

I don't really want to lynch N_M actually, the more he posts the more I townread him

... why?

Kaede... ?????????

I'd love to lynch Aero, and then maybe LUV as a close second

and then
Kokichi Oma
Smocaine
LaserGuy
are people that just... exist

Where does Luca fall in that?

[Aeronaut]

Alright, done.

VOTE: NM

Would also vote Kaede or LUV.

Not Mafia literally spent all of yesterday trying to wagon anything that moved, but when it came time for the scum wagon, he was just being shifty and refused to join with no good reason behind it.

LUV isn't doing anything meaningful in the game. He's voting for me, sure, but he's not really pushing me or asking questions, nor is he really pushing very hard for my lynch (posting an ISO and saying "SEE?!" when nobody else sees it is not pushing hard).

Kaede's hammer yesterday was equally kind of bad because like NM, he really didn't have any good reason to not join the wagon. I really could see scum trying to end that day asap tbh.

[Aeronaut]

Marquis, Cheet, Luca and probably Laserguy are all townreads

[Aeronaut]

Sounds good!

[Aeronaut]

Hi I'm here.

[Aeronaut]

I'm not voting anyone for awhile today. But if I were, it'd be smocaine.

[Aeronaut]

Luca, Laser, Cheetory are all town to me.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Aero

still seeing Chara as a strong townread

prob town is Cheet and Luca

I don't really want to lynch N_M actually, the more he posts the more I townread him

Kaede... ?????????

I'd love to lynch Aero, and then maybe LUV as a close second

and then
Kokichi Oma
Smocaine
LaserGuy
are people that just... exist

And?

I'm not voting anyone for awhile today. But if I were, it'd be smocaine.

Why.

Luca kind of beat me to the punch, but tbh I think he's trying to slow down the conversation and speed up the votes. Talking mainly about 278 where he's narrowing us down to two options early in the day, but more here on day 2 when he's telling us not to consider looking at bussing, which is awful.

Gutwise I don't really think Smocaine's scum here tbh.

... Why though? Unless you've played with him before, He's just randomvoting and doing nothing town-motivated.

[Aeronaut]

meant to say that that second post is awful in conjuction with the first one.

[Aeronaut]

Not really.

What was your read on Not_Mafia?

The thought of two back to back lolhammers got my dick hard. I was leaning town on him. Which never happened nor have I seen scum!nm before. I outplayed myself.

This is not pro-town cheet.

[Aeronaut]

meant to say that that second post is awful in conjuction with the first one.

It's really not considering I doubt I've swayed anyone's actions this game. Just look at Luca shut me down in #279 with regards to Creature lol.

Yeah; you haven't swayed anyone by actually pushing for a scumread to get lynched or anything. You've

tried

to sway people using some false dichotomy and by attempting to get people not to use our strongest lead, e.g. a literal wagon on scum.

[Aeronaut]

Kaede actually felt townier to me after that thing yesterday re: "Let's see how scummy i am after hammering my second partner" (paraphrasing).

Idk, that feels like way too much confidence from scum.

[Aeronaut]

Clean and artificial? What does that even mean?

[Aeronaut]

The way I see it, someone who just isn't doing anything for town is someone you need to lynch immediately. Because tbh, there are zero reasons you should be townreading him, that's a huuuuge stretch. Everything he does, he can pass off by saying lol idc.

[Aeronaut]

Hey look, here's more smocaine piggypacking off of your read for me, cheet.

[Aeronaut]

He hasn't ever actually mentioned why he thinks i'm scum, but now that you've given reasoning, look, now that was TOTALLY his reasoning too!

[Aeronaut]

You were in NY180.
Excuse me if I'm a little hesitant to trust you saying that you should exclusively lynch dumb players.

That's not what I'm saying at all?

[Aeronaut]

I don't even think he's dumb. I'm saying he's incredibly anti-town, and likely scum. at the very best, he's going to keep fucking things up for town, and you're going to keep letting him pass by saying it's ok he's dumb.

[Aeronaut]

Tbh I was only voting Cheetory to figure out if he's town so that we may be best friends, but I'm convinced enough of that to steal Marquis' idea

VOTE: LUV

This is scum

So much reasoning behind this, yes.

What are your other reads?

[Aeronaut]

Also; I will be driving home to Boston today, so I probably won't be around starting pretty soon, until early tonight.

[Aeronaut]

Aero, who's partners with Smocaine if he's scum?

Chara or Uzi.

Luca seems town, Chara seems scummy.

Weirdly do agree with this, though. Chara kinda was pinging me D1 about something and then hasn't been around much. Need to go back and check.

Oh and while you're at it, talk me through your Marquis read on D2.

After Wisdom flipped mason, I figured the reason that Marquis was acting so weird, defending Wisdom for no reason and targeting me for trying voting him was probably because he was 100% sure he was town.

[Aeronaut]

Hey Chara? Hows it going. What are your reads as of now?

[Aeronaut]

less confident townreads are Kokichi and Laser.
Smocaine is leftovers but i need to look at the Creature wagon again.
LUV and Kaede are actual leftovers, but i'm more confident in my ability to read Kaede.

Luca, Cheet, and Aero are town.

and it's going fine, thank you. :>

Hey thanks, but why exactly?

Kaede actually felt townier to me after that thing yesterday re: "Let's see how scummy i am after hammering my second partner" (paraphrasing).

Idk, that feels like way too much confidence from scum.

i wouldn't agree with this. why can't scum do that? it looked like a general and sarcastic challenge. considering the flip was town, too.
it shouldn't take me long to read day 2 but i'm not completely caught up on it.

back tonight.

I don't see scum having that much confidence, especially if kaede knew for sure it was town. Just seems like screaming PUT A TARGET ON ME

Laser Guy
Luca Blight

Cheetory6
Kaede
Kokichi
LUV
Chara
Aero

Why are lasar and luca so far above cheet? I really don't see a world where Cheetory completely screws over Creature.

Read his iso. I'm not really looking to explain my tr for a sr.

@Everyone
This is the shit I'm talking about. Smocaine actively trying to avoid sharing any detailed info.

Pointing out that you're not on these lynches when you might have wanted to isn't sitting well with me, and you seem different than usual.

What games would you say that they're different from, if you don't mind?

I'll explain Laser if a tr of mine is sring them or something.

Explain right now, please.

What. How did Mafia know Marquis was the partner? I thought it was Luca yesterday. This sucks.

This.... I hate this post.

[Aeronaut]

Ok, let's watch this "scum" perform a double bus then
VOTE: NM

Why did you vote NM here? When you mention him before in #482, #400 and #268, you don't seem to find anything particularly scummy in his play.

2 reasons
1. I had a null read on NM and since a lot of people were scumreading him I figured that maybe they were better at reading NM than me.
2. I always have this thing that when someone says im scum with X while voting X makes me want to vote X too.

Your reason for Hammering Not_Mafia was that other people thought you were scum with him?

Kaede actually felt townier to me after that thing yesterday re: "Let's see how scummy i am after hammering my second partner" (paraphrasing).

Idk, that feels like way too much confidence from scum.

This felt town, just like the way he attacked Wisdom back in D1 which was my initial townread on him.

Your reason for townreading me is that I townread you?

[Aeronaut]

Kaede have you ever done the first thing in any other games?

[Aeronaut]

What specifically brought you there Cheet

[Aeronaut]

Ok that's the one I quoted before so I agree; I was just wondering whether you had anything I didn't.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: Kokichi

I'm good with this.

[Aeronaut]

Very much agree w that.

[Aeronaut]

Cheetory, please look at the post above you and tell me why that player is town.

[Aeronaut]

ok

[Aeronaut]

PSA, I have a christmas party tonight starting in a few hours so I prob won't be coherent until tomorrow morning

[Aeronaut]

If you want an example of someone genuinely not knowing marquis was the mason, look at laser guy labling Marquis' creature vote as nullscum. If you want an example of bs, look at Kokichi's reaction to the flip.

This is really a fairly town post imo.

Don't send yourself to the hospital Aero

Ironically I did actually go to the hospital, but it was my girlfriend who was too sick. She's good now though!

If Kokichi and LUV start being town then I'll resort Smocaine.
hbd

not likely tbh

Why?

Aero, your thoughts on Kaede's vote?

Looking back, not actually a huge fan. It's not really giving kaede any blood on her hands whatever the flip is.

@Kaede

can you talk me through why you're voting for Kokichi besides the fact that your townreads are voting them?

Hi. I don't really have time to talk. I'm A JOAT. With only 2 shots. I used a doc on cheet n1 and I checked Marquis n2 cause I thought Luca was the mason. I kinda softed with the Marquis death.

Kokichi, I'm kinda looking through your ISO and I don't really see a place where you're softing anything. Can you point me to where you mean?

[Aeronaut]

Don't have time to read till maybe tonight. So do whatever you want. I've already used my shots

Feeling like town would want to catch up and make a case, here.

i don't find Kokichi's post scummy. it's, at most, awkward. Kokichi town regularly makes awkward posts. home soon.

Can you elaborate on this?

I think Smocaine is mafia. I've hydra'd with him, he's not this reckless

What game did you hydra in with him that you're referring to?

[Aeronaut]

post 698, Kokichi Oma"]If you think I'm mafia, vote me. I COULD be mafia, but I'm not. It's not a lie![/quote]
This could be a good copypasta, also.

[Aeronaut]

@Kaede can you talk me through why you're voting for Kokichi besides the fact that your townreads are voting them?

Yeah i was sheeping, but it's also part of my reads:

I think it's 2 of LUV/Koki/Smocaine atm, btw.

Well what about kokichi is pinging you personally? (if you've already talked about it somewhere, I apologize, just link me)

[Aeronaut]

that is really not a crumb

[Aeronaut]

Why would you use the doc before the cop check

I thought you were dying. Figured I wasn't going to die

Wait, you had the option to protect

yourself?

[Aeronaut]

Can you elaborate on this?

i've played with Kokichi a few times recently. he's a little offbeat. i'm not certain he's town, but i've seen some towny things. i can't say for sure because he's not really been hunting today. still, he says he's busy, which i also am, and it's the holiday.
i find his claim plausible. and scum pretending to have checked the dead mason is a terrible claim to fake.

It might be a terrible claim for scum, but it also doesn't make any sense from town.

Feeling like town would want to catch up and make a case, here.

why? the post you quoted says he's busy. it's NAI.

He says he's busy and that we can do what we want, meaning he's not really fighting that hard to do much for the game imo.

[Aeronaut]

Hey Smocaine, why am Kokichi and I scummates to you?

[Aeronaut]

It might be a terrible claim for scum, but it also doesn't make any sense from town.

it not making sense as either alignment doesn't make it scum, either.

It does because he has to claim something.

[Aeronaut]

?

Chara, you've been townreading me all game. What suddenly changed for you?

[Aeronaut]

?

Chara, you've been townreading me all game. What suddenly changed for you?

i'm playing the game now. :>

Alright, since you've decided to start playing the game three days in, enlighten me why in the middle of multiple posts where you're defending Kokichi as being town, yet you also include Kokichi in your lynch list?

[Aeronaut]

Ok so Chara made kind of a good point about the fact that Kokichi could have innoed anyone as town

UNVOTE:

but what doesn't make sense is that chara still wants to lynch Kokichi?


P-edit Besides the post where you say he's on your lynch list, you have zero posts where you say he could be scum.

[Aeronaut]

Also Chara thank you for showing up again and being really town.
c:

You're

KIDDING

right?

[Aeronaut]

Cheetory, please tell me how Chara showing up and posting a lynch list, half of which are his townreads, with no information otherwise is town.

[Aeronaut]

I want you to literally tell me. I don't want to hear how things I do "aren't working for you". It's time for you to give you're actual thoughts on things, here.

[Aeronaut]

Chara's prob town.

talk about this?

urge to lynch NM is... present.
i want to townread Kokichi. a little.

still haven't read most of the day. haha.

less confident townreads are Kokichi and Laser.
Smocaine is leftovers but i need to look at the Creature wagon again.
LUV and Kaede are actual leftovers, but i'm more confident in my ability to read Kaede.

Luca, Cheet, and Aero are town.

and it's going fine, thank you. :>

i don't find Kokichi's post scummy. it's, at most, awkward. Kokichi town regularly makes awkward posts. home soon.

Can you elaborate on this?

i've played with Kokichi a few times recently. he's a little offbeat. i'm not certain he's town, but i've seen some towny things. i can't say for sure because he's not really been hunting today. still, he says he's busy, which i also am, and it's the holiday.
i find his claim plausible. and scum pretending to have checked the dead mason is a terrible claim to fake.

i haven't, that's why i'm not confident in the read either way. i bring up meta only to say the post about Marquis doesn't look scummy to me. i think Smocaine's town, though, and he can probably read Kokichi better than i can.
but i now have my laptop and a free hour, so let's see what i can do here.

It might be a terrible claim for scum, but it also doesn't make any sense from town.

it not making sense as either alignment doesn't make it scum, either.

[Aeronaut]

Those are literally posts of you saying he's town, or saying you townread someone that doesn't think so.

[Aeronaut]

I don't feel like you're properly engaging Chara's points.
And this isn't the first time I've felt like you've done this during the course of this game.
I haven't really believed the way you've switched from read to read. The jump from person to person feels clunky like you NEED justification in order to start pushing someone, instead of just feeling like someone is scum.
I don't feel like you actually believe that Chara is scum, or that Smocaine was scum or that Kokichi was scum or that Marquis was scum.
It strongly feels like you're just dropping reasoning that you feel will look genuine to people, rather than actually trying to parse and find scum here.

I believe a lot more of what Chara's putting down here in these last few posts than anything you've done this game.

Please answer my last post.

[Aeronaut]

Ok so Chara made kind of a good point about the fact that Kokichi could have innoed anyone as town

UNVOTE:

but what doesn't make sense is that chara still wants to lynch Kokichi?

i don't want to lynch Kokichi. the list of four players i've voted are the ones i'm not confident are town. i've said this.

and yes, it is a good point, thank you.

Kokichi Oma
Lil Uzi Vert
Aeronaut
Kaede Akamatsu

i don't see myself lynching anyone not on this list.

[Aeronaut]

Cheetory, please tell me how Chara showing up and posting a lynch list, half of which are his townreads, with no information otherwise is town.

here's more of the "logic" vs. real scumhunting. there's not really an effort to understand my thought process, just to spin it negatively.

same with my Kokichi read. he's been a minor townread and i found the points against him to be NAI. he is

not

taken from my lynchlist in spite of my minor townread because i'm not confident in the read. but Aero tries to spin that as a contradiction too and is appealing to you instead of discussing with me.

Having two townreads on your lynchlist when there are multiple other people in the game is a huge

Cheetory, please tell me how Chara showing up and posting a lynch list, half of which are his townreads, with no information otherwise is town.

Town isn't necessarily rational?
Town regularly changes its mind with new information.
I believe Chara's flip on you given that I'm also hard scumreading you right now based on your recent posting.

This is literally the third time you've done this "how the fuck is this person town" shtick with me and it's starting to get old.
Marquis was ridiculously town when he was alive and you didn't see it.
Chara's being really town right now and you're not seeing it.
You've pushed Smocaine/Kokichi on slick logical reasoning that doesn't seem real to me.

Sorry if I'm wrong and you're actually that frustrated with my play here, but man it just does not read that way to me right now.

[Aeronaut]

Fuck, fixing that, hold on. ^^

[Aeronaut]

Cheetory, please tell me how Chara showing up and posting a lynch list, half of which are his townreads, with no information otherwise is town.

here's more of the "logic" vs. real scumhunting. there's not really an effort to understand my thought process, just to spin it negatively.

same with my Kokichi read. he's been a minor townread and i found the points against him to be NAI. he is

not

taken from my lynchlist in spite of my minor townread because i'm not confident in the read. but Aero tries to spin that as a contradiction too and is appealing to you instead of discussing with me.

Having two townreads on your lynchlist when there are multiple other people in the game is a HUGE contradiction.

Cheetory, please tell me how Chara showing up and posting a lynch list, half of which are his townreads, with no information otherwise is town.

Town isn't necessarily rational?
Town regularly changes its mind with new information.
I believe Chara's flip on you given that I'm also hard scumreading you right now based on your recent posting.
This is literally the third time you've done this "how the fuck is this person town" shtick with me and it's starting to get old.
Marquis was ridiculously town when he was alive and you didn't see it.
Chara's being really town right now and you're not seeing it.
You've pushed Smocaine/Kokichi on slick logical reasoning that doesn't seem real to me.

Sorry if I'm wrong and you're actually that frustrated with my play here, but man it just does not read that way to me right now.

You pushed Kokichi too with the EXACT reasoning, Cheetory.

[Aeronaut]

There's a definite difference between not wanting to lynch someone as of right now and saying that it has a pool of 4 people that it thinks are scum.
Again, sure you want to keep pushing this?

That's not what happened at all.

Pretty obvious implication that Chara isn't townreading you anymore.
Again again, sure you want to keep pushing this?

Chara townreads Aeronaut and kokichi the entire game.

Chara puts them both in his lynch pile.

Chara doesn't give reasoning behind it.

This is what scum does, Cheetory.

[Aeronaut]

Cheetory, I don't know what's up with you this game. You're seeing things that aren't there and just playing... backwards? That's the best way I can describe it. It's like you see someone you want to scumread and just come up with reasons they're wrong about everything instead of actually trying to talk to them.

as someone who regularly talks to you, you shouldn't be making it this hard. It also shouldn't be this hard for you to see my argument.

[Aeronaut]

I'm not voting you am I?

I explained that your readslist doesn't make any sense. It still does not. You don't put your townreads in your lynchlist.

[Aeronaut]

I'll be honest, I've been wondering since D2 about it, but have been refraining from saying it because it sounded sill. But this is not a cheeto that makes any sense to me right now.

[Aeronaut]

Weird chainsaw "Aero is definitely scum" defense after my comment on a readslist is weird as fuck too.

[Aeronaut]

wait, why?

Smocaine/Aero feels plausible to me.
Especially with ^^^^

What before that one post made you think Smocaine is scum?

[Aeronaut]

Because the more his posts become townier, the more you suddenly are targeting him cheet?

[Aeronaut]

Answer my q, cheet.

[Aeronaut]

Person that doesn't use town logic kind of makes me think they could be scum, yea.

[Aeronaut]

doesn't use town logic

You're not town.
Seriously.
Just say whatever you want.
And I'm getting you lynched.
Make a fuss out of me not answering questions.
Whatever you feel you need to do.
But you're getting lynched here.

More not answering questions.

Cheetory6, you think scum!aero pushes Marquis as scum the way he did given that scum knew who the mason was? I don't remember his posting about the slot and couldn't be arsed to figure out when/where. If it was pre-wisdom flip then nevermind.

VOTE: Aeronaut

Aero, still think Cheetory6 wouldn't bus Creature here?

This is also a baffling transition.

More changing the focus and discrediting people who disagree w you. I guarantee you're setting up Smocaine for tomorrow after me today.

[Aeronaut]

For the rest of the game that's just checking in; I really do believe that Cheetory could have bussed his buddy and now is extremely confident. He's not answering questions, he's not engaging with me, just trying to discredit me because he knows I can be tough to get rid of sometimes. Everyone else was able to see why me pushing Marquis made no sense from scum. Believe me or don't, at this point, I'm not gonna get a word in without Cheetory discrediting me, so this is my option.

VOTE: Cheetory

Somewhere, there's a dead thread either rooting for me or absolutely hating me. Prob hating me; but gotta take a shot at my gut here.

[Aeronaut]

BUT WAIT
AERO
HOW CAN YOU BE SCUMREADING ME
WHEN YOU WERE TOWNREADING ME BEFORE?
Almost as if your Chara read is complete fucking nonsense.

P-Edit: Yeah man I figured that putting you and Smocaine as partners would be an easy way to chain a lynch on Smocaine after you apparently flip town.
Lol.

You

know

this isn't what it is. This is such a misrep, it's not even funny.

wait, why?

Smocaine/Aero feels plausible to me.
Especially with ^^^^

You been prepping me all day to be lynched on the off chance Aero or Koki flip town.

And I'm scum for applying more pressure to Aero who you think is scum, like, dude.

Was wrong about smocaine, he's town as shit.

[Aeronaut]

Luca Blight
Smocaine
LaserGuy

Kaede Akamatsu
Lil Uzi Vert
Kokichi Oma

Chara
Cheetory6

[Aeronaut]

Can actually maybe see how Smocaine might have seen that as me saying I wanted to eventually lynch him.
Aero's 100% flipping scum every time here though.

I'm going to tell you this now; you're wrong.

[Aeronaut]

Cheetory, you're really 100% sure I'm scum? REALLY?


Suuuuure, man.

[Aeronaut]

I'm trying to convince everyone that it makes no sense.

[Aeronaut]

I think more people are going to see what I'm seeing than you think Cheet. Maybe I'm wrong, idk.

But everyone else

, please tell me what you think cheet has done that's town motivated that's not the creature lynched, which he based on almost nothing. Cheetory has said he's underrated as scum, and I know that more than anyone to be true. At least, I know he could have made that decision to wagon creature as scum, because creature's scum game would get found out regardless.

[Aeronaut]

Right, that's why it's a question phrased at me.

... And? Why are you just sitting here arguing semantics? You could be making a case on me.

[Aeronaut]

Like, seriously, you picked such a shit person to 1v1 with as scum here. You literally never win this ever.

You're right, I would never win a 1v1 with you if I were scum. I'd just wait until tonight to kill you instead, like a normal person. But I don't have that option.

[Aeronaut]

Cheetory has said he's underrated as scum, and I know that more than anyone to be true

What's the point of mentioning this?

Because I think that most players couldn't pull off a creature bus that well, but I believe that scum Cheetory can.

[Aeronaut]

@Cheetory

what specifically did you see in regards to creature that reminded you of his scum game? Please explain the thought process.

[Aeronaut]

Lol.

Awesome answer!

(But seriously, please answer what I'm asking. You're helping nobody if you don't.)

I was thinking Aero was town but that 813, is all levels of bad IMO.

He basically's asking what he's done to make him town, and idk, his posts and tone just feel town to me, when did anyone base a TR on him via a creature lynch other than you?, and it wasnt based on nothing, it was based on meta, and then saying something that would be true for anyone with meta knowledge of creature.

Like idk, am I the only one seeing this?

P-Edit: Aero if this isnt what I should be thinking about your post, then feel free to correct me as well.

P-Edit 2: Okay that's a better question.

I auto-townread him from that wagon on, and assumed that's what we all were doing. If you've got other non-gut reasons he's town, please share!!

[Aeronaut]

Bah.
Okay. I'm pretty antsy right now because I feel like Aero's caught scum, but I've been wrong before and I'm not infallible and I shouldn't be a dick in case I'm wrong:
Creature is probably the easiest person on the site to read.
He can't make convincing posts as scum and his towngame is relatively relentless.
Anyone with experience with his town and scumgame can attest.

Yes, I could be scum who knew he was a liability in the longrun.
I've been relentlessly invested in this game beyond that though and my scumgame doesn't have this kind of range.
Pretty much every scumgame I've had, I've had to coast it out to some degree because I can't match the frenetic energy I usually bring to the game as town.

The entire burden of proficiency for me being scum here is that you don't think I would stop engaging you when I think you're caught scum and that you think I'm good at scum.
You really think that's a good case?
Because there's a fuck ton of shit in my ISO that telegraphs my towngame.
I can't play like this as scum.

I don't believe a single thing you've done this game.
Marquis felt similarly.
I feel like that says a lot more than just me apparently having a good scumgame.

Ok, thank you.

UNVOTE:

Marquis was wrong. If you're town, you know me, you know my scum game. I like to be scum because I'm always 100% sure of myself in what I want to do, and I'm in control. It's impossible for me to be wrong about someone as town.

This is not a game where I'm sure of myself, and that should be obvious. My towngame is garbage, and you can tell from how all over the place I am here, mostly because I really hate being town. The first couple days, I'm almost always just going from person to person trying to find cracks, pressuring, and it's been no different here. You can see every game I've been town, it's all the same.

I don't really know why townyou and marquis wouldn't think I sound genuine in the game. Maybe it's because as when I'm searching for town, I'm always trying to look more confident than I am to put the pressure on, i dunno. What I can tell you is that if you're town, I don't understand much of your thought processes this game, and maybe that is my fault, since I couldn't understand marquis' until after he died either.

What I can tell you though, is that I'm not scum this game. If I were, I wouldn't have picked a fight with you and probably honestly just sheeped you quietly most of the game, because like you said, 1v1ing your friends is really fucking dumb to do as scum.

I don't know what to tell you. I like your response mostly because it's the first thing you've posted that sounds like something you would say, if I'm being honest. I don't know.

I unvoted because I need to think about all of this for a bit. I'm not over thinking you could be scum, but your response was exactly what I'd be looking for from town cheetory, so I'm less sure.

[Aeronaut]

i suck at mafia