Mini 1975: A Village in the Woods (Game Over!)

[Ghostly Penguin]

Ghostlin in Ghostly Penguin here. RVS is NOT my favorite phase. I'm hoping to get my nicer half in here so you can get a feel for us. There's not a huge amount of hydrating on page 2 that needs to be done.

ibuki thinks you guys are BORING

Ghostlin hates your talking in third person gimmick.

Vote: Ibuki

[Ghostly Penguin]

Ghostlin

hey Ghosty! think we played together a few years ago

We probably did. You look familiar. I'm looking forward to playing with you again.

@Hopkirk i was also brain storming myself about how being aware of the rule could be alignement telling

looks like sheeping
VOTE: joey

It's RVS. How is sheeping someone at all indicative at this point?

Spicy take: We don't know that mafia has pre-game or day chat. Scum!Hopkirk slips they do in 31 in their logic, while a town!Joey_ doesn't take that approach in 35, thus indicating he is likely to be town. +1, 36 is kind of unnatural. Toptier for dealm's spicefeed in 37; add a little bit more of spice for Raya's 39 for "lowering [their] townlean on kirk" for that reason. Brew dish, serve hot.

I like the spice better than discussing setup/confirmation semantics.

Scum have evolved to telepathy and smoke signals in today's meta. Keep up. [/sarcasm]

Seriously, while I like this push enough on Hopkirk to see where it goes, it's cross referenced with at least two other players, and is bordering on conspiracy theorist.

You call it spice but this is technically setup spec. Confirmation spec is bs, but setup spec is what we should be looking at. We all came into this game with the description that the game will be complex and flavour intensive. It's been made clear to us that we don't get to know all the mechanics that are at play as well as that there may be more to our role cards than what is written. The main reason I read the rules is to see if there was any information up front about what these interesting mechanics would be and what standard mechanics were in play. But alas, the rules said nothing. The only real mechanics we currently know exists is that the lynching system goes off a simple majority and the length of this day. We don't know if day lengths are going to be consistent. We don't know if the time we don't use is bankable. We don't know if scum had pregame chat. We don't know if scum has day chat. Maybe the scum doesn't even get a night chat and are forced to talk during the day? Perhaps, there is no scum and the game ends when we realise that and consciously no lynch? For all we know, this game could even be nightless. Obviously, I don't believe in all these theories. But the point is, we are in the dark here. We don't know what forces are in play. Not knowing all the mechanics is something that made this game appeal to me and I'm hoping that theorising about the setup and the mechanics is going to be a reoccurring theme throughout this game.

I would just like to play a game of mafia. Not having an uninformed majority versus an informed minority is not mafia,
it's narrative storytelling where the players all agree to kill each other by democracy every day and we chase boogeymen and that may be my cup of tea if I know that's what I'm getting into. Scum most likely, barring the mod getting REAL creative, have a chat. When it's open is not super relevant until the mechanics of the game reveal themselves for it to be super relevant. I would presume that some of the other players are trying to kill you unless proven otherwise.

I've not synchroed with PA, but I'm fairly confident we'll get around to it. -Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

I forgot that ABR is what I'll call a 'terse' player; that'll make him hard to read. I do like his posting, however, so that's a thing.

PM: Since I don't see mod lightning bolts coming from the sky, I can presume that Rule 11 is something that the mod can amuse themselves with with the number of players who confirm incorrectly. The better question is: do you find Rule 11 breakers/adherents AI in any way?

Still hate ibuki's shtick.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

@Mutant: what reads have you got so far then, over a third of the way in?

If anyone needs me to elaborate on this list then feel free to ask but since there has yet to be much posting I don't think there is much to be elaborated on.

Town:

None

Town Lean:

Raya36
drealmerz7
Joey_
Bins
moonbird

Null:

PMysterious
cytheflyguy
Albert B. Rampage
Ibuki Meowda
Hopkirk

Scum Lean:

mozamis
Ghostly Penguin

Scum:

None

My question has to do with less clarification of reads and more to do with the the list itself. Early days yet, but you're not particularly passionate/dispassionate about anyone? If not, why?

--Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

I don't think re-entering this discussion excites any conclusions aside from the fact that it's not really AI.

This is fair, but I sort of what want to hear PM's conclusions on it. It's not whether or not you and I think it's of great importance, but if PM does and why.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

It's RVS. How is sheeping someone at all indicative at this point?

to me it looke dlike hopkirk was thinking for himself and scum hunting. Then Joey comes in and repeats the same point. looked like scum trying to find something to post.

Take it in context: it's the only point of discussion at the time. In the entire thread. His thought process is also completely different than that of Kirk--while they do reach similar conclusions, it is different.

Yeah, moon got the Town PM this game. moz--meh.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Hey mo: what do you think of Raya's 39 since we're both here?

[Ghostly Penguin]

^also -Ghost; PA's slightly VLA according to a trusted source who knows her. You get me a bit, you lucky bastards.

[Ghostly Penguin]

Did you?

Yes. Our PM even includes joy. I could vomit.

My quick sort (subject to change):

Town: moon, ABR, Bins

Scum: raya, ibuki

Would like to sort: everyone else

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

^edit: mutant's in my 'I feel I should be reading this as Town but I'm not so sure slight Town-lean' block.

[Ghostly Penguin]

I forgot that ABR is what I'll call a 'terse' player; that'll make him hard to read. I do like his posting, however, so that's a thing.

PM: Since I don't see mod lightning bolts coming from the sky, I can presume that Rule 11 is something that the mod can amuse themselves with with the number of players who confirm incorrectly.

The better question is: do you find Rule 11 breakers/adherents AI in any way?

-Ghost

I don't really know what AI means. If I did, I would be able to answer the question directly, but if you were to ask me, Rule 11 is a pointless rule if there is no punishment. There's nothing to be gained from people breaking Rule 11, or even following Rule 11, other than they were either excited to play or didn't actually check the thread and just their Role PM.

Mod amusement isn't nothing. Hopkirk answered what AI was.

AI is 'alignment indicative' (whether it represents alignment or not) by the way.

I don't feel acknowledging shit posting is AI.

So, why the PM vote?

Something about Raya's list seems...safe. I realize I have a very similar list but if she's posted once; Raya, talk about some of your reads if you could, please.

- Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Gonna wait till the vote count so we don't hammer derp before I vote Raya. While I'm not upset with the prospect of that lynch, I'd like an idea for future days.

Plus:

V/LA For Ghost head from 12/24 to 12/27 (28-ish), someone's visiting me for Christmas! Will try to post.

[Ghostly Penguin]

Why are you happy with the lynch?
This sounds somwhat forced, mainly the second half.

Because they're on my scum list, they've posted four times without much content and their list is boringly safe, particularly after the list I posted.

It reads "oops, better look like I'm scumhunting."

And yes, I want us to talk other not Raya reads. I don't want to go into Day 2 with that sense of derp that Towns without a plan develop. (I presume you mean that part on my second half of the post. If you're talking about the V/LA, my boyfriends going to be here. Mafia is low priority when I get my boyfriend to drive 14 hours to see me for Christmas.)

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Are you saying Raya's list is too similar to yours, or that Raya doesn't takes controversial stances while you do?

I'm saying it looks a lot like mine. I'm saying that I feel that her reads seem very mean (the academic mean, not the emotion) Town without providing a lot of content to the discussion.

Mutant's list gave me a different kind of pause because of no declared strong reads but Mutant's added stuff to the conversation.

Raya reads like "I'm coasting, better do something". It's not good.

-- Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Other head prod-dodging, holiday overwhelmed, will dig in tomorrow. Merry Christmas to those celebrating!

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

As of this moment I have a hydra partner to prod and to catch up. I'll try to make both as painless as possible. Please be patient. -Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Town: Moz. Hopkirk

Pos. Town: mutant, Moonbird

Null: Cyfly, Rampage,Bins, Drealz, Ghostly

Pos scum: PM, Ibuki, joey, Raya

What is it with people making spineless lists this game. How are we to trust you are scum hunting when you don't actually call anyone scum? - Ghost.

[Ghostly Penguin]

Mutant or raya, which one do you prefee to lynch guys?

This is literally one of the things that PA and I are talking about in our fortress of solitude and joy. Thoughts incoming.

Voting a null read over a “pos scum” read because of a gimmick doesnt seems all that coherent batman

well, he was null, but i've seen scum coast by like he doing before. It's that "lolz" approach, which does sometimes work.
certainly havent seen anything town from him.

It's also pretty low hanging fruit. Like Dreal is unlikely to stop the meme if you vote him or not. Right now? We can't take his play to LYLO, but I'd rather go with someone we can actually get some information from from the flip. Voting out of frustration right now doesn't do anyone favors.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

VOTE: Raya36

We're not getting any sense of the proactive play we'd expect to see from town. Our lynch pool stays about the same, but cytheflyguy pings me pretty hard too.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

VOTE: Raya36

We're not getting any sense of the proactive play we'd expect to see from town. Our lynch pool stays about the same, but cytheflyguy pings me pretty hard too.

--PA

Can you tell me how your hydras is deciding who you guys are voting for? Is it only one head who changes the votes or can both do it ? Do you have to both agree on it or not etc? This would help people read your slot better

For your reads, can you explain them a bit, the rata/cry sr

Generally speaking, PA and I have a private chat where we talk about reads, how we feel how things are going, etc. While not being the same person, our personalities and reads sync up well for this work, and really, there are few people I'd rather share a slot with.

We agree on whom to vote. In a rare case where one of us is out of communication for a while, the other might place the vote to push, pressure, etc, with the understanding the other might remove it--- we communicate with each other, and I can't really name a situation where that needed to happen.

If we disagree fundamentally drastically on a read, one of two things happen:

1) We table said read and come back to it,

2) One of us gets out of the way of the other. This happens most often for example, if PA has, say a scum read and I'm Nullish on them.

The only caveat to all of the above is I approach the game differently from PA and vice versa. So the reasons I might read a person may not be PA's, but we respect each other's reads and present a unifed front as much as we can. ( Advice to anyone whom might wanna hydra someone; make sure you mesh. Hydra are a pain in the dick to read anyway, do not get caught with someone you can't share a brain with!)

That lengthy piece aside; here are the Ghostlin reasons for us reading the slots you asked:

Raya: neither of us have been impressed with that slots effort, but what drove it home was the fact that PA showed me some meta of a game where they were Town and I said, almost exactly: "their first four posts here have more analysis than their entire contribution THIS GAME."

Cy: mostly a PA read but everytime he enters the conversation, I go "who?", which is one of Ghost's Not Good signs.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I suggest that you reconsider the cy read if its just based on activity

Not based on activity. It's that everything he posts feels like he's equivocating:

I'm not a fan of the rule 11 argument, but the how actually does feel more town than anything. Like, that's a really contrived argument. Unless he's scum who got real ballsy, I wouldn't peg that as scum.

There are a lot of words to say that something is likely town but not necessarily. And there's no follow-up on whether he's not a fan of the argument/thinks it's contrived and so comes from scum or from town with bad thought processes.

Mutant pings me doe. 75 seems weird but idk if that's IA. 100 feels like it's an excuse to be wishy-washy. I def want to push him.

Hedging on whether something is relevant at all, wanting to push him rather than scum read him. Not to mention that 75 that he cites is...not really weird? It's asking what someone wants who posted just a gif.

100 feels like it's an excuse to be wishy-washy. I def want to push him.

seemed kinda honest to me, why would scum so openly say "not sure of my reads, guys"

You've played with me as scum before. I will use reverse psychology and things like this because it's "not something that scum will do", and it kinda works. Especially for a new player here, I don't see that out of the realm of possibility.

Then he talks about his own scum play and talks about possibilities. Which is a bit 'zebras are making this hoofbeats' for me. Then in 234 he unvotes without any kind of real opinion shift.

There's nothing in his posting so far I like for town at all.

@Ghostly on Raya

I'm leaning slight town on Raya on meta too. This is the only game I've played with them: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73629&user_select[]=29941
Raya has a lot more day one today than she did there (town), though the game was less active in general. She's only got nine posts there, so it'd be quick to compare, but based on my experience there I don't share your meta read at all.

I wouldn't call my take on Raya so far a meta read, since one data point isn't wholly convincing. But it's enough with the rest of her posting to be pretty darn leery.

On that note:

cytheflyguy - He hasn't posted much but I like the interaction with devle and he seems to be trying despite the holidays and the flu. Town

Ibuki Meowda - I like them for town

...you like cytheflyguy's stuff? Really? Please explain what I'm missing.

And given that I'm pretty sure (my recollection is a bit foggy given my lack of attention here so far) you're the only one townreading Ibuki that firmly, elaborate?

The more I read it the less I like facets of that reads list. Quoting here the ones I want to question for reference:

Town
cytheflyguy - He hasn't posted much but I like the interaction with devle and he seems to be trying despite the holidays and the flu. Town

Ibuki Meowda - I like them for town

moonbird - I liked her take on rule 11 plus scum could have easily jumped on that to make it easier to scumread someone later. She's asking a lot of questions and seems to be putting in an effort to interact with people. "Hunger for flip" was a bit odd. Slight town lean.


Null
Ghostly Penguin - Covered them in 116. Their posts came across quite town for the most part. I could be a bit biased but their push on me seems bit safe though. I also hate that they pushed me by saying our lists looked the exact same when there were literally no similarities and then they ignored me and one other person who confronted them about it. Null leaning scum.

So somehow moonbird who had one phrase you didn't like but has been super towny is less town than someone who's been mostly absent and someone who you don't have a reason for townreading? Also (from an admittedly biased perspective) we're 'quite town for the most part' but end up leaning scum for a supposedly safe push on you and a straight-up factual misstatement? (I wasn't around for the reads list thing, but yeah, I'll admit I don't know where Ghostlin was coming from with that) Who would you consider a not-safe push right now?

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

we need to agree on alynch. I could do raya, but i fail tosee why people arent all over Drealz. He has literally doen nothing

town

all game.

Fixed that for you. He's trolling the game. He's likely vig bait. Why on God's green earth would we lynch this now besides a p-lynch?

I don't even mind suggesting a p-lynch a p-lynch, but let's call that what it is.

- Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

(I wasn't around for the reads list thing, but yeah, I'll admit I don't know where Ghostlin was coming from with that)

So the reads list being the same was untrue; I had conflated my feelings that it was a quick list to appease the horde (as it were) on the tail list of me posting a list, particularly since Raya hadn't really interacted with most of the game as of the first list.

- Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Dunkerdoodles replaces Moonbird, effective immediately.

Instantly scummy.

More so than Raya who you've been scum reading and campaigning all game for?

I'm not sold on: slot I was TRing>>>replaces out>>scum slot. Unless PA really surprises me, I'm pretty damn sure she isn't either.

Slot

[Ghostly Penguin]

Above -Ghost. ( and this).

[Ghostly Penguin]

He has literally doen nothing town all game.

ALL GAME?!?!?

it's D1, just because you don't TR me doesn't mean you should SR me

how am I vig bait for playing this way on a D1? anyone who shoots me for this is fucking terrible

So most of this post was to mo, but I'm going to address the vig bait comment I made.

You have done nothing this phase. If you continue to do nothing Town will either be forced to lynch you because we can't take you to LYLO or for the fact you might be literally coasting scum.

This is why you're vig bait. That would be the reason you would wake up dead in a Day phase because scum literally do not have any reason to shoot you ever based on Day 1's play.

I don't think it's optimal to p-lynch you, but I'm completely not sold you're Town. There's just no convincing case for Dreal- scum either.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

(I wasn't around for the reads list thing, but yeah, I'll admit I don't know where Ghostlin was coming from with that)

So the reads list being the same was untrue; I had conflated my feelings that it was a quick list to appease the horde (as it were) on the tail list of me posting a list, particularly since Raya hadn't really interacted with most of the game as of the first list.

- Ghost

Did you two disagree over the reads list itself, or just over Ghostlin's comment about Raya's being similar?

Mutant feels town to me too actually.

@Cythe: Was that the post you said you were going to make (one above this one)

I'm here, but this is more of a PA question. She's not indicated to me that she inherently disagrees with my stances, tho.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

GP if people don't townread me why am I not being lynched?

First of all, this reads cheeky to me.

Secondly, not on people's Town lists=/= Being on peoples scum lists, and EVEN THEN, being on a scum list =/= Being most people's most scummy read.

Thing is, if you've spent, like a newbie game or two on this site you already knew this.

Thirdly, this Town is poor on consensus, our biggest wagon got to L-3 so far.

This actually seems weird and LAMIST for a question. What are you trying to accomplish here?

-- Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Mutant/dreal kinda scumed the fuck up last 2 pages and albert is being irrelevant like always

you can't just say shit like this and then not elaborate

what the fuck ?

You've spent a lot of time complaining about how all of us are treating you unfairly and admitting you're doing fuck all.

Do you have reads we can reference? Opinions on how people are interacting that aren't revolving around 'you can't scumread me because I'm doing fuck all?'

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

You've spent a lot of time complaining about how all of us are treating you unfairly and admitting you're doing fuck all.

Do you have reads we can reference? Opinions on how people are interacting that aren't revolving around 'you can't scumread me because I'm doing fuck all?'

-Ghost

a lot of time? all of you?

nice scum post of hyperbole

Nice dodge. You want to answer the fucking questions I've posed?

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Albert is disregarding the whole deadline thingy and is talking about the scumminess of a replace out which no one gives a crap about

1) I had asked him the question in the first place and I do expect answers from questions I ask.

2) This doesn't, in itself, necessarily make him scum. I think the push is terrible, but I'm still Town reading him at this point in spite of (or maybe because of) it.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

anyone wanting to lynch me is bad or scum

I just quoted this because speaking of hyperbole...

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

ummm that's not hyperbole and I explained the logic behind the statement

The logic is literally 'I'm doing fuck all, you can't get a read on fuck all'. Are you here to play the game or waste our time? I'm seriously asking at this point. For all the amount that that have told me where you mod games where Town is encouraged to work together, and the last game I played where you modded that was also the case, you have been doing nothing to increase Town's ability to win the game, and I can only assume by the way you've not answered my questions, you have no reads and no plan.

So exactly why should I give any fucks at all if your slot lives or dies if you do not exist to help my wincon?

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

I've generated almost no content, to get a SR from that that makes someone comfortable lynching me / thinking I'm scum seems ridiculous

So here we have a player who has stated they aren't generating content but shouldn't be scum read.

On the whole I wouldn't judge someone for being low activity, but where I'm running into trouble is how this squares with the mod-drealmerz7 who talks about how town need to work together to scum hunt during the day and how important that participation is to town doing well. To the point where he designs games around swingy set-ups that favor whichever side gets in gear sooner and synergizes better.

I'm not interested in policy lynching you, drealmerz7, but I'd suggest that if you're town you stop being obstructionist and get your head on right. Because something is weird here, and I don't see where you're coming from at all.

Right now we aren't wildly enthused about the ABR or mozamis wagons. We're willing to move to prevent a no-lynch, but I'm waiting for Raya to get back here and respond to my earlier comments about her reads. I'd also happily lynch Izumi, who I'm reading as cheeky scum, or Cytheflyguy. Which:

VOTE: PM

nvm CYguys iso is not that bad

Can you please explain to me why Cy doesn't make you want to light a torch? Because when all he does after 100 posts is defend himself against the one person who called out some of his posting and pose a weak question about someone town reading one post, I'm not impressed. Tell me what I'm missing in his ISO?

--PA

P-edit: sniped by my other head...

[Ghostly Penguin]

P-edit: sniped by my other head...

This is admittedly my bad. But I endorse literally everything PA said in that post. -Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

I don't see why Dreal isn't expanding.
I don't really see why Ghostly is pushing it so close to deadline while claiming to not want to lynch Dreal (I think).

They're two different things.

We do not like either the moz lynch OR the ABR lynch. We acknowledge that a lynch must happen today. We will make sure that happens, even though we hate it.

The dreal thing is closer to "we hate how you're playing this game but we think you've got pretty damn good chance not to be scum"; we (or at least this head) literally don't think a dreal lynch will happen, but we think it's asinine that he's going 'anyone who scum reads me is bad or scum because I've done nothing this game'.

anyone wanting to lynch me is bad or scum

I'm still not caught up, and I want to review more info before I comment on the Rampage wagon, but although you did make a good point that it's not smart to say your vig bait from day 1 content, this is not good. It's perfectly understandable for people to scum read you, especially this early. Just bc it's too early to have a vig bait doesn't mean it's too early for people to scum read you. This pings me.

...I...what?

This is almost going out of the way for cy to hypothetically allow himself to read someone he hypothetically wouldn't shoot as a vig?

what?

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

oh and I have a solid hard guilty on bins

VOTE: bins

Full claim, please. There's no reason not to, with one scum down in a Mini, if you have a hard guilty. There's likely a protective in play, plus scum lost their roleblocker.

I'm also up for Bins full claiming first if you have reason to think that works better, but I've seen enough fakeclaiming lately to want this resolved sooner rather than later in the day.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

I'm actively biting my tongue right now. I feel that unless mutant got something like a friendly neighborizer, we should be trusting the guilty, but the Cop doesn't trust his own guilty, so how can I fucking trust the guilty?

I'm gonna go have a cookie, guys. It might calm me down, and is only slightly better for me than a smoke.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

It uses the word town, so answers the question.

What do you mean by 'It'. Do you mean your own role card?

Specifically, the win condition line.

Wondering if we all got similar formats or not since a.) you seem so interested by this b.) Bins says she got no flavour but a full description while mine is described in a way that makes me unsure how it works, but with lots of flavour.

Can confirm our PM has flavor, stuff that makes us slightly unsure how it works, and a line that says we win with Town.

We do not have any kind of name, like Moz fakeclaimed Day 1.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Oh and someone asked but I hard townread Mutant after the Moz flip for posts such as...
Which all combined, I don't think would be made by his partner.

I made a list of the reasons everyone is currently voting moz for:

cytheflyguy - Agrees with me.
drealmerz7 - Doesn't say. (Assuming he agrees with me based on context).
mutantdevle - 360.
Dunkerdoodles - Scum read moz from early play.
Ibuki Meowda - Doesn't say. (Assuming they agree with me based on context).
Raya36 - 116

This will be more relevant once moz flips.

"Hippocrates of Kos (Hippokrátēs ho Kṓos; c. 460 – c. 370 BC), also known as Hippocrates II, was a Greek physician of the Age of Pericles (Classical Greece), and is considered one of the most outstanding figures in the history of medicine."
-wikipedia

Kos = moz?

I wish I saw your flavour reveal before bins hammered...

Not that I'm blaming bins btw, I'm just pointing out that the doc claim is legit.

Is Hippocrates supposed to be well known then or something? Because I have literally never heard of him before.

Only because it'd make his neck shittilly stick out. Anyone want to talk about the fact that Moz flipped a member of 'the Blade' and not just generic scum?

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

ok sure

the blade is the mafia

ok moving on

This blindly obvious point wasn't my point. Let me put it this way: does anyone want to muitiball speculate/SK speculate with that information and the number of night kills?

@ghostly penguin, would you be willing to tell us if you have flavour or not?

And I have some theories regarding the night kills and death flavour that I will post later.


Also bins, why is it that my reaction to his flavour claim is what made you town read me? I would have thought that building a case and slightly tunnelling moz would be the obvious reason as to why I couldn’t be his scum partner.

I did this already for you on 631.

[Ghostly Penguin]

Above post and this one -Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

@Ghostly Penguin, @Ibuki, @cythefly; does your role have a name (instead of a first name)? That's the only information i'd need to complete my table so I may as well.

No first name, no role name, just a description of our role.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

[quote="In

???

I feel like someone is lying here. Especially since the only other person to have claimed to have had a first name was moz who was lying and is also scum.

VOTE: Raya36

I'm a little confused on the logic here. Do you mind explaining it a bit more?

I'm not convinced the info on the chart is ai. I mean, I don't know why I was singled out to be the only one with a name but it's certainly not because I'm scum. I don't think my name is really indicative of my role unless I'm missing some sort of reference so I don't see a problem with sharing it if you think it will be helpful to know.

Are you seriously asking why he's scum reading you? I think he's taken the idea of last person who claimed a specific name in this game=lying scum, no one else has claimed a name, ergo...

I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion myself, but it's not that much of a trip to get those conclusions.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

if you say so



VOTE: Ghostly_Penguin

I'm not liking these posts. Why this vote? You said you were scumreading another player. Your argument in 705 is circular af. I don't understand how your play has town motivation.

So this is awkward. My hydra partner is scum reading you and I don't have you above a null, and yet I find myself agreeing with this post.

Or to put it another way, ibuki's play seems closer to "I'm disappointed that DD isn't taking off, let's hope GP will!"

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Vote: ibuki

[Ghostly Penguin]

the table is meaningless

holycrap duh

This is true. So...do you have any ideas on who you think is scum, besides Bins-but-lol-not-really?

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Mod: we're voting ibuki.

[Ghostly Penguin]

mozamis wouldn't have been lynched if not for my vote. can i have my lock town pass now

Bussing exists; and would of been a decent play by the time mo went down, so no, you don't get town points just for having your vote on the Mo wagon.

"Hey guys. Are you town reading me yet? Why aren't you town reading me? Isn't it how obvious how Town I am yet?" Doesn't work no matter how much you fucking beg for it.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Ibuki's obviously wanting you to read their slot as Town while they make pushes for reasons. I can't even tell you why they're pushing this slot and I don't care frankly. They're trying to coast on being "cute" and I totally don't get why we're ok with letting this slot live.

I also don't get why we allowed dreal to pull the stunt we did and not immediately demand he give us reads or something after the fuckery of "you can't scum read me, I'm not doing anything" of Day 1. He needs to give us something.

[Ghostly Penguin]

-Also Ghost, above.

[Ghostly Penguin]

I was writing another post but halfway through thought "eh, this will be better said later".

Instead: @Ghostly Penguin: what do y'all think of doodles?

Latent but dissapating TR from the owl days. I don't think much of the player's play currently in the slot when I do think of them at all.

I'd much rather lynch ibuki. Why are they a null to you?

--Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

I bluntly need to read this game and get realigned with my hydra buddy. Apologies, it's been a busy couple of days.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Sorry, was on vacation for the long weekend and got lazy.

I'd like to hear more from Dreal.
Current scumreads are Ghostly/Pmys/maybe Dreal.

VOTE: Ghostly Since it's lonely here

I'll give you us and the maybe Dreal, but are you really scum reading Fern after that entrance? I'm biased because I was town reading PMysterious, but that wasn't remotely how I'd think scum would come into a slot joining a team that's down by one in a Mini sized game.

...and topic review indicates we're wagoned. Let me keep catching up and I'll claim as needed at the end of that.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

Uc voyager strikes me as mafia

UC Voyager is an easy, wagonable lynch.

Someone kill this tomorrow the second we flip Town.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

I am really not liking ghostly. They are at l-1 and continue to show they don't care. Barely posting and just not acknowledging that they are at l-1

Ghostly last posted 15 hours ago. This was a prod dodge. They were on L-3, not L-1.
I don't follow.

okay. most townies when at l-1 take advantage of the position they are in.
they also try to get themselves out of l-1. ghostly has not done anything to help us find scum if they are town. no reads, no claims, no nothing. they are still not posting.

do you get where i am coming from

Ghostly hasn't posted since he was L-3.
Ghostly may be intentionally not posting.
He may not be intentionally not posting.
How did you determine it was intentional?

Or we could both be busy with our lives. I'm a magic nerd that went to prerelease all day Sunday, and then had to play nursemaid to a roommate.

This line of inquiry is fucking ridiculous and you both know it.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Latent but dissapating TR from the owl days.

Can you specify what you mean by 'owl days'?

As per Ghostlin via Discord, he was talking about when the slot was moonbird. I'd agree with that, that moonbird towned it up like mad, and Dunkerdoodles hasn't done anything to shift it especially one way or the other. I think I'm probably giving the slot more credit for moonbird's play than Ghostlin is right now.

UCV, your posts spend a lot of time waffling on us. What's your read on us aside from all the quick votes from others? Who's your top town read, and who's your top scum read? Your predecessor made me want to give him a rope necklace, and nothing you're posting is changing my mind.

I like Fern's entrance but I'm definitely keeping an eye on the slot. I'm really not convinced in Ibuki being scum. Ghostly came off as defensive and getting worked up in the conversation with Ibuki. I think I'll put a vote there for a bit.

:amused as hell: Clearly you've never played with Ghostlin. That was him being tame. Go check out how he reacts to being mislynched in the recently finished Large Theme here to see him getting worked up. I'm the chill one. Relatively speaking. And I'm wishing I had a vig shot to take out Ibuki, so you can imagine how Ghostlin feels.

I was going to make a case on Ghostly Penguin but I wanted to ask them some questions first. Looks like I don't need to make a case on them but I will do if I do not like their role claim but people unvote. I don't expect them to answer my question unless that happens but I do expect their next post to be a role claim.

You're not going to like our claim in the slightest, but yeah, claim incoming.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

Okay, for the following to make sense, our claim probably needs to come first: we're a cookie-flavored fruit vendor. We distribute cookies to make people happy, is the gist of our flavor. We targeted Joey_ last night in the hopes that our cookies did more than be cookies, but obviously that's not exactly useful in demonstrating our towniness.

Thinking through gamestate that includes our role, so far it doesn't sound like there's enough town power to support a 3:1:9. We have an effectively useless detective (could be insane, but meh), an inventor (no guarantee of where power goes, delay in utility of power), and a cookie vendor. One flipped scum had a roleblocker. 2:2:9 is more likely, which would mean two things: First, mozamis's partner almost certainly didn't bus unless they were utterly idiotic. My issue with that becomes that it only leaves Bins, Hopkirk, and Fern as possible partners, and none of them feel very likely. Bins' reaction to the start of day shenanigans read towny, Fern came in towny to further my town read on the slot, and Hopkirk had a good Day One in my book. Which means this:

mutantdevle, drealmerz7, cytheflyguy

is the next tier of options for a partner. Which does bring me back to my much-beloved cytheflyguy scum read. Add in that UCV just watched me lurk my way through another game as town yet expresses surprise that I'm not active here and yeah, not liking the slot on any count.

Second, finding any other team scum is less than straightforward based on the voting. It also invalidates all of Ibuki's talk of how towny they are for helping lynch mozamis.

I'm assuming we're eating the mislynch here. If I'm right, tomorrow starts with 7 players alive, assuredly as 4:1:2 in some combo (the 1 can be an SK or, more likely, mozamis's partner). You need to lynch the '1' to get to 5p LyLo Day Three, as lynching from the '2' goes to 4p pre-endgame scenarios. Which means leaving the game in scum's hands. I could be wrong (obviously) and one of the shots was a vig; if so I'd suggest that shit get claimed pronto at the start of the day tomorrow.

Reads list incoming.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

why is it 9:2:2 and not 10:3 lol

Two night kills, neither one Town-sided, no Vig claim?

What the fuck else would it be besides 9:2:2 or 10:2:1?

- Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Reads list (pretty much in agreement, will note where not) (not in especial order)

Town:

PMysterious

Fern: The posts from PMysterious read to me like he was trying to sort the gamestate. Nothing concrete, but a town-leaning read. Fern's replace-in felt aggressive enough not to be coming from scum, although if I'm right about the 2:2:9 set-up that might mean less. Still, it was loud and involved and logical to some degree. The last one is the most valuable here...
Hopkirk and mutantdevle: I'm putting these on the same line because I don't think Ghostlin and I disagree much here, nor do we have some giant case to back it up. Just that they both react to things in town ways.

Ghostlin says they're town but both idiots

moonbird

Dunkerdoodles: We both thought moonbird was town as hell. Dunkerdoodles is maintaining that read for me, Ghostlin finds it slipping but will put him here anyways.

Other (Town/don't lynch):
drealmerz7: Town based on claim and its fallout; zero scum motive there to make that play unless scum with Bins, and if so it was a really dumb play, plus Bins seems to be cleared elsewhere.
Bins: Inventor claim fits in with things, reaction to guilty claim was good, seems to be verified with others.

Scum:
Ibuki: My issue here is that reading their posts, Ibuki feels like they're trying to hold everyone as a possible mislynch. It feels like a scum mindset that doesn't want to narrow the lynch pool or commit too strongly anywhere.
Raya: I maintain that she doesn't feel how I'd expect a town-Raya to be posting. Next step is going to be rereading the Ibuki-Raya double ISO, because I feel like there were some lousy interactions there.

cytheflyguy

UCVoyager: I talked about my scum read on cytheflyguy earlier, and nothing UCV is posting is changing my mind. Ghostlin wasn't so much on board, and he thinks UCV is potentially mislynch fodder if I'm wrong.

--PA

P-edit: Dunkerdoodles, if it's 10:3, a town vig either shot Joey_ (who was towny as fuck) or ABR (who...if that was a vig shot, it was a bad one in this player list). 9:3:1 doesn't make much sense here, as it means putting enough power in the '1' (SK) to make that faction equal to a 3p Mafia, and correspondingly enough power in town to stand up to that. 10:2:1 is possible, I suppose, but that means there's about zero chance scum bussed, and none of the scum off the wagon make sense as a mozamis partner. It does track with low town power.

Add into that both presumed-anti-town shots were off the wagon. Non-Blade/mozamis-aligned scum would have shot there to try to narrow the pool if they figured the partner didn't bus, but why did both shots go off the wagon? Mozamis's faction shot off the wagon. That means they don't mind narrowing that pool. That actually does imply they managed to bus. It's weak, but that's my best analysis.

This does go out the window obviously with a vig claim tomorrow or if the rest of town is dripping in power and we just got the short end of the stick.

Ghostlin would like to say that neither of those are vig shots

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

No Town player shoots ABR in that gamestate and they sure as fuck don't shoot Joey. Flipping the "Blade" anti-Town faction seems to indicate there's more than one, and while that might be outguessing the mod, it feels correct that there'd be more than one anti-Town faction, which is where I was going mid-Day.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

You're not going to like our claim in the slightest

--PA

can you elaborate on this thought?

Because we targetted dead obv-Town Joey, so a role that is essentially 100% confirmable turns into a claim where you have to take our word for it, and since we were close to eating rope...

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Ibuki.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

I'm really not convinced in Ibuki being scum

What are your actual thoughts on Ibuki? I see you've voted them now, but that's for an awkward UCV vote more than anything else. And for the record, when we've been scumreading Ibuki since 95 and they've been scum reading us since Day One, I think calling either of us voting for the other pure OMGUS under any circumstances is a bit disingenuous.

Reading the double-ISO of Raya-Ibuki, there's approximately zero mention of one from the other until Fern comes in. And then it's a lot of posturing. Soft defenses, etc. I'm about done for the evening, so I'm not going to try to quote it, but it's an interesting read for those so inclined.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

We targeted Joey_ last night in the hopes that our cookies did more than be cookies, but obviously that's not exactly useful in demonstrating our towniness.

So... it's entirely possible that you killed Joey, Albeit accidentally? Perhaps your cookies cause madness and hence that's why Joey died the way he did. Based on the flavour of the kill, I don't think that's likely, but is the possibility that you killed Joey something that has crossed your mind over?

UNVOTE:

My vote will return if no one else is wagoned in time (which seems most likely) but for now, I don't want a hammer.

It's possible, yes. The flavor doesn't match up, which normally wouldn't quash the theory, except the kills seem rather specifically flavored. We will be taking that possibility into account in weighing our night action if we don't get lynched here today.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

@Ghostly: I treat gimmicks at NAI. It does not make me like Fern.

I'm not townreading the gimmick. I'm townreading the lines of inquiry and approach within the gimmick. Him calling himself top dog and the rest of us losers is most definitely NAI, and it's hardly endearing.

You quoted my post in 896. I asked UC why he thought your lack of posting was intentional as I believed it was due to being busy. Can you clarify whether you misinterpreted it?
In 895 you say UC is an easy lynch. You make this a point against Ibuku. In 899 you scumread UC yourself. Do you feel this is a contradiction?

I don't know how Ghostlin interpreted it precisely; my take on all three of your posts was that Ghostlin thought it was useless posturing from UCV and that your playing into it at all was also useless. I'm inclined to think that it was useless on UCV's part (I'll also note that he has yet to get back in here with relevant content beyond commenting on our (lack of) posting while being run up) and I'm not sure where you were going with it. I'd have been inclined to ignore the exchange and see what shook out, but Ghostlin's a bit more confrontational than I am.

UCV is probably viewed as a not-difficult lynch. The issue with Ibuki pushing it is that there's zero mention of any suspicion on cytheflyguy before UCV's replace-in, no specifics on what makes UCV likely mafia, and a feeling of being happy to lynch almost anyone here. Contrast that with my scumread on the slot: it's been specified since Day One, continues with a call-out on UCV about what I feel is missing from his play to make it pro-town, and we aren't tossing around lynch choices like confetti here. So no, I don't feel that it's a contradiction.

Cookies killing Joey was a thought I had. Dreal’s role might have weird stuff like that included. The workings of mine (as I mentioned before) are not fully explained.

Like I said, we'll be taking that possibility into account. If I squint really hard I can see our cookie acting like a vig shot, and I suppose given advertised ambiguity that could be the case. Flavor implies an assailant though, whereas our role PM is very clear that we're giving someone a cookie, not giving them a cookie and then smacking them around.

--PA

P-edit: OK, drealmerz7, what's your take on us then? FTR, when you said 'intent' we weren't hammerable. Looking back on it, we were never actually at L-1, since Ibuki unvoted, but in between our claim and your 'intent' Raya36 unvoted and Ibuki explicitly voted elsewhere. Why are you townreading Ibuki? You said a while ago that Ibuki hadn't struck you as bad. Anything more specific?

[Ghostly Penguin]

I don't see how the slot posits the possibility of it being 10:3:1 if they're town

if it's 10:3:1 Ibuki is not scum-buds with mozamis and it doesn't make sense to go for 3p so why push that slot or hold that idea?

I think there could be a 3p, and it could be ibuki, absolutely, but I don't care atm and after I suggested that idea their wagon built pretty fast and it just makes me think "ah, scum think they've figured the 3p and are trying to remove it"

We had two nightkills. Assuming our cookies aren't secretly shapeshifting cookies that come back to life and shove people's heads in the dirt, both those kills came from scum, as neither makes sense as a vig shot. That means two anti-town factions. In a game of this size, it's either 2:2 or 3:1, and as we said, 2:2 makes more sense to us given flavor, voting patterns, and revealed/known to us town power. We could be utterly off-base and it's 3:1, in which case I'll agree it's unlikely Ibuki is groupscum. Even in that case though, we're scum reading Ibuki independently of other factors, so it's not much concern to us whether they flip scum or 3p. Hell, if they're 3p, they're actually an ideal lynch here--eliminate 50% of the NKs, sounds pretty good for town to me. And if groupscum are helping in that...more power to them? Why do you seem to disagree, if I'm reading your posts right?

I'm still betting that Ibuki flips not-Blade groupscum, especially with the refusal to claim, but right now I'm not picky. Tomorrow I'd be picky depending on flips and NK(s).

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

PA, I'm only trying to read ghostlin

having watched your method of playing in Maplewood I have zero delusions into thinking I can read you based on how you are posting and am only looking for logical inconsistancies from your posts (which I don't figure you to slip up on anyway)

Also, I haven't rolled a real scum role/played with anti-town intent for 3.5 years because hiatus. I have no idea how I'd play as scum these days. Happy to point you to my 2014 scum games, but I suspect they'd be of limited utility.

--PA

P-edit: Flavor-wise, the part where mozamis flipped purple scum and town has flipped green indicates a secondary scum team in the purple folks. The other aspects of the game are stronger indicators for me. Your role for example: at this point I'm assuming you're either paranoid or insane. That means your first result at least is very likely going to be misleading unless you're lucky enough to investigate someone who dies that night. And even then you're going to need multiple results to know if you're paranoid or insane. That's a dangerous role at best, one that mislynches at least one town at worst. Assuming Bins is town, as seems likely, if you'd gotten her mislynched, your neck would be in the noose the next day. Adding in the possibility of cross-firing counters that to some degree. Elsewhere, Bins has claimed inventor, which means her PR effects don't go off until at least Night 2. Our role is most likely useless. (If we are responsible for Joey_'s death, this all goes out the window, obviously, but I'd be pretty annoyed if we were; in the meantime we have to assume hoofbeats mean horses, not zebras.) On the flip side, scum flipped a straight-up roleblocker. So either town have a lot of power and we've coincidentally uncovered only the worst PRs, or scum need a way to mess with an opposing scum faction. Looking at what's flipped from NKs as well, Joey_ is either a role/flavor cop or a back-up, neither of which is very strong. And ABR was TRUST, which I'm assuming was something like an activatable IC or a neighbor of some type. Activatable IC isn't bad, but it's not a sledgehammer either. So in a 10:3 scenario, that's five known PRs that are low powered or low/negative utility.

Add in what I've said previously about the NK choices and the wagon, and there seems to be a lot pointing toward two killing factions, high likelihood of 2p each.

[Ghostly Penguin]

aye, ghostlin is just a decent lynch whereas others at this point will be shite lynches and non-informative

I think UCV, raya, and mutant are more likely scum than ghostly at this point, but ghostly certainly isn't ruled out any not even close to a townlean so...it's a good lynch

This is pretty god damn close to "I think GP's pretty close to null, because information reasons, I have other scum reads but I'm tempted to push this lynch anyway" which if I was actually honest-to-god scum reading you, would earn you a 'go fuck yourself' and a vote. The Ghostlin of a few years ago would of done exactly that. We have literally NO scum motivation to tell you all of this if we were scum killing Joey. If we were more transparent, our avatar would turn into just a fucking square. So I will tell you to 'go fuck yourself' and go play with our Town reads.

PA is also a very important part of this hydra and the whole 'you guys should know better' from us even mildly entertaining the fact of scum reading you and then your cavalier dismissal of her is insulting to both me and her, so you've earned two 'go fuck yourself's here. Also, you're literally letting ibuki go with 'there's no reason to scum read me' and not claiming at L-1. WHY. WHY ARE YOU FUCKING DOING THIS, DREAL? YOU SHOULD KNOW FUCKING BETTER. WHY IS TOWN DOING THIS?

--Ghost (and approved by PA via discord)

[Ghostly Penguin]

If you want some fresh takes, the following is all true:


1) We believe that Bins and Dreal are both town. There's little way that I see scum Dreal and scum Bins trust another player with what happened Day 2, and both reactions are pretty god damn organic.
2) Raya is good lynch--PA will talk about this more (I wanna kind of twitch about ibuki for a moment, and god fucking dammit, I'm gonna)
3) ibuki borrowing dreal's shtick of 'you have no reason to scum read me' and refusal to claim is really fucking scummy if you think about it and their play for 2.5 seconds.
4) if UCV is Town this game, he's probably the easiest lynch this game. I'd rather raya and/or ibuki--I played a game where we lynched him Day 1 recently and I'll post that on request. I've not seen anything from him seeming that he's a stronger player as of late. (I don't think he is Town, and PA scumread cy prett hard)
5) Hopkirk and for me to a lesser extent, DD, are Town reads. PA had a PMysterious town read, and we're BOTH TRing Fern.
6) playing PoE for a moment, that really leaves us with UCV, Raya, ibuki in most configurations where we aren't a lethal baker.
7) I believe there is no gamestate where ABR gets shot by a Town agent and that Town agent DOES NOT claim. I actually don't care too deeply if it's 10:2:1, 9:2:2 or 9:3:1; we lynch scum, which means we lynch from 6.
8) I believe there is no state where a Town player kills Joey, claim or no--that's where the whole 'I think we have two anti-towns shooting' comes from.

That's where I am on this game state. PA is probably similar with a few tweaks, but nothing that would involve hydra dissonance.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

Ibuki, you were quite pleased with your correct vote/push for mozamis; why the sudden proclamation that you're so useless?

Fuck it, I want a lynch. This should be vote #4:

VOTE: Raya36

Obviously willing to move back to Ibuki to avoid a no-lynch, etc.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

So our cookies aren't deadly. The recipient should claim receipt now, please.

Otherwise, total reset time for us.

--PA

[Ghostly Penguin]

Work's eaten this head of the GP; want to confirm the following: we sent cookies to UCV.

UCV was not home to receive cookies. Joey did receive our cookies night 1. (We have been getting flavor from the mod each night on our deliveries.)

PA and I need to recalibrate, but it seems she's been particularly right about that slot all along.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

. I'm also assuming UCV was given the cookie. If she doesn't claim that, then either someone is purposely withholding such a trivial piece of information or Ghostly Penguin isn't actually a cookie vendor

It appears we aren't, but we didn't actually know that until last night. I was functioning on assumptions from a similar role in a previous game *I* recieved ( Maplewood). We apparently vend cookies unless the target isn't home...

..yeah, entire thing is fucking weird.

-Ghost

[Ghostly Penguin]

I expect that drealmerz result today is that he has another guilty on someone which confirms that his role probably doesn't mean much at this point. Drealmerz is town.

From someone who was in a Dethy:

If Dreal got a innocent last night, he is Insane: we lynch the innocent.

If he got a guilty, he is either Insane or Paranoid. We don't act on the result until/if Dreal gets an Innocent, in which all guilty results= Town.

The other options are mafia has a framer or redirection.

-Ghost