NY 213 - Game Over!

[wavemode]

VOTE: osuka

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VOTE: texcat
because the last time we played together you were scum and I vigged you and that was fun

[wavemode]

Question: In this setup do we know exactly how many town Vs. how many scum are in the game?

VOTE: Charles510

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prod dodge

i'll catch up when i get home from work

[wavemode]

am i the only one who feels like day 1 of this doesn't matter

or day 2 or 3 for that matter

i'll sheep whatever almost50 wants since im pretty sure he's town

no i don't have any solid reads because that would imply i've been reading this god-forsaken early game

[wavemode]

UNVOTE:

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i feel personally attacked

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also, VOTE: osuka

[wavemode]

do what you want, I'm just a town neighbor

it's like i said, no matter who you lynch today it's gonna be wrong

let's get this over with

[wavemode]

I could be wrong but like I think there's plenty of potential for 3 town neighbourhood in a 25p game.

As a sidenote it's probably mechanically optimal to lynch in {rampage, wavemode} because they've both claimed VT. (completely unprovoked)

Are you arguing that claiming VT unprovoked is scummy?

Well I think it is to some extent, yeah, although it's more the ungenuine AtE that comes along with it that I find scummy.

wait... what?

You're the one who told everyone I'm a Town neighbor lmao

*outs my role*

"wavemode is scummy for outing his role"

Sorry this cracked me up more than it should have

[wavemode]

@wavemode - Why do you feel like Days 1,2,3 don't matter? Have you seriously never lynch scum on Day 1?

i'm largely disillusioned with large normal early games in general, after slogging through a few of them now. i'm just not particularly motivated right now to follow 50 pages of content and 10000 different conversations about meaningless things

let's be honest, day 1 read accuracy in a large is going to be roughly as good as rolling dice. day 1

lynch

accuracy is going to be much worse than that because if a wagon is correct scum will be trying to derail it and if it's incorrect they will be throwing fuel on its fire.

this is all made worse by the fact that the sheer volume of content of a 25p drowns out any one individual's voice. in the grand scheme of things, even if i had fire reads today, i'd never get this town to agree on lynching them anyway, and then they would just get rid of me and move on

my point isn't to not try - i am analyzing the game to a degree. my point is I'm not going to get bent out of shape about day 1 when it's not that effective or consequential and most people's reads are based on flimsy meta, regardless

as for day 2 and 3 it largely depends on who dies and how many die and such. saying day 3 doesn't matter is, okay, an exaggeration on my part. even if it's still a 21p at that point, we'd at least have VCA and possible investigative results to look at

[wavemode]

PRs can be in neighbourhoods too you know...

you have an example of this? i've seen neighborizor i guess but not other roles

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agreed VOTE: performer

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Looking at Wave meta and he seems a lot more engaged as town.
In the games I've looked at so far he's subbed out 3/3 times as scum after not posting much.

that's a nice sample bias you got there pal

rather than insulting my integrity by suggesting that i replace out to avoid playing scum rather than for legitimate RL reasons, why not look at games where, i dunno, i actually stayed in til the end?

[wavemode]

To answer khan’s question, basically hood discussion went like this (it may sound weird at parts though, because I have to paraphrase it):


-Act 1-

Screenplay – hi
let's catch scum
ausuka – should we out this hood
screenplay – there needs to be some accumulation first
wave – waaaaasssssup
screen – haha none of them worry me
ausuka – wave & screen, reads at this point?
Screen – I didn’t read


-Act 2-
(performer replaces in)
Perf – greetings all. why should we claim?? Based on wiki & normalcy guidelines, 1 of you should be scum so I don’t think the 3 of us are town
Aus – oh my gosh. that’s silly to try outthinking the mod.
The plus of outing the hood would be publicly talking about what happened in the hood
Perf – I have to catchup since I replaced in, but I’ll think about the idea. If all of us are on the same page later about outing the hood, that’ll be great . Otherwise it’s not a good idea
Perf – ok I’ve read up, I think it’s a bad idea to out at this point. That defeats the purpose of it being private thread, to create something like a masonry.
Perf – I’ve been reconsidering something, aus why did you particularly bring up that type of traitor talk? Nobody before you, spoke of it.
Aus – my dearest friend, I elaborated why there could be traitor + a50. We have to remember this if people he pointed out, flipped scum
Perf – you’re mariomaniac?! Bloody hell, that's swell. Good to see you again, how is school?
Aus – summer school’s ok. I wish more people my age play forum mafia. How’s work?
Perf – I see. Work’s ok, I plan to get into management or become an analyst in my field one day
Aus – Umm Performer. So like, I think this pt can help read wave, it’s become of no use. Can we disclose it?
Perf – Ok let’s do it, I have no problem with that

-The End-

this is accurate except my entrance wasn't jovial. i made a point to not say hi or anything like that

[wavemode]

im not even convinced ausuka is scum, really

that's mm4 and i used to play with her a lot. so i think she has understandable reason to scumread me, at least insofar as my activity level is lower since i dont feel motivated to closely follow this day 1

that said, she should probably also try to remember back to newbie 1801 if she thinks i play scum like this

[wavemode]

you wanted to lynch within the hood, you pended daychat confirm and wanted to lynch ausuka, you're on my wagon. So, I'm reevaluating my read on you as well as wheme, mylon, texcat, to name a few.

you're saying it's scummy to be wrong about a scumread?

[wavemode]

Was talking about the IC ability. Again sorry if this was the wrong choice.

it's probably a post game discussion to be had, but i personally wouldn't have used it unless an actual lynch on you was imminent. or else what's the point?

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why did this day 1 turn into a mass claim

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why did this day 1 turn into a mass claim

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vax is always town here, sorry to say

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well not always, on second thought

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but he's not today's lynch

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she's also the one of the three who's voted you this game

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eh the lynch is valid, if it comes to that. AA9 lurking is NAI and myloninja, i'd be suspicious of if he WAS posting lots of game-related comment

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the more theories come out for scum!wavemode the more i realize how bad of a player people think i am

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not that i mind, it's fun to be underestimated

one of these days when i do pull scum i will earn a Don Corleone

[wavemode]

I'm town, Ausuka town, this is Gamma Emerald town, we have almost50 town, Kublai Khan is town, Mylon is probably town? JarJarDrinks is probably town

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and Creature town

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Dunnstral probably town

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PenguinPower is town

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and Vaxkiller almost certainly town

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for you GE, of course i will

because we're such good friends

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but not now, later when im not at work

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PenguinPower is town

The guy who replaced TheRampage? Why?

what was even the original case against rampage. null lurking?

and then people were still scumreading therampage after 834? why?

like i know there's the pride aspect that MS players don't want to get AtE'd but come on people, in actual REAL WORLD gameplay this flips town 9/10 times i can't be alone in thinking this

[wavemode]

If he is vig, shooting wave/me will yield information, that's true. So even if we can't agree on a lynch, there's that option.

how is asking to be vigged ever pro-town?

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dave probably town?

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so scum want the people on their wagon to be seen as town lmao. okay NOW I've heard the funniest theory for scum!wave

anywho, i'm off work so i'll write up what GE asked for

[wavemode]

yeah and i'm saying that's literally never self-serving in real life lmao. i don't know what shit kind of newbie games you play in where people back off you because you call them town but that's super awful strategy

in fact im curious, can someone link me an example of that EVER working on ANYONE? even in a newbie game? like, i've literally never heard of that

[wavemode]

im not talking about playing devil's advocate for a lynch target. im talking about someone scumreading you and you call them town and then they go "well gee this guy is actually pretty swell". it's a fairy tale

not sure why i even got roped into this debate. ausuka is already conftown and i didn't call dave town, i just said i was maybe leaning that way. so the whole basis of this argument is flawed in two respects, A. that your argument would hold true whether i called these people town OR scum, because it's either omgus or im trying to buddy them, and B. that i literally only called one person on my wagon town, and it's someone i've played a lot of games with Gamma Emerald

[wavemode]

response to the fact that the basis of your argument was false in the first place?

[wavemode]

I'm town, Ausuka town,

these are obvious

this is Gamma Emerald town

AM I ALONE IN THINKING THIS. gamma emerald is not this incisive or aggressive as scum. (few examples 649 or 1037) if me townreading Gamma is so problematic go look at Open 703, I did the same thing and i was right. this flips town 29 times out of 30

we have almost50 town

again, i've played with him, and it's the same playstyle and tone. i also like his posting here, i don't see scummy intent and he posts like he cares about the game state (ex. 161, 308, 1380). 17 out of 20

Kublai Khan is town

i like his posting and i am somewhat inclined to agree with 566. 9 out of 10

Mylon is probably town?

i know his meta, it's like i said before im inclined to believe he usually is sheepy and carefree like this as town rather than as scum (ex. Open 724 and Micro 803 vs. Micro 798). 8 out of 10

JarJarDrinks is probably town

Dunnstral probably town

a number of their posts display what i feel like is a townie mindset (ex. 369, 735, 790, 440, 1159, 1260) both 8 out of 10

and Creature town

i've played with him and i agree with 161. 9 out of 10

PenguinPower is town

PenguinPower is town

The guy who replaced TheRampage? Why?

what was even the original case against rampage. null lurking?

and then people were still scumreading therampage after 834? why?

like i know there's the pride aspect that MS players don't want to get AtE'd but come on people, in actual REAL WORLD gameplay this flips town 9/10 times i can't be alone in thinking this

and Vaxkiller almost certainly town

he claimed vig unprompted on day 1

dave probably town?

Wavemode has no scumreads. JFC people, think!

i've played with him when he was scum and town, i don't think as scum he cares this much or gets this flustered and aggressive over something like his preferred wagon not going through? 23 out of 27

pedit: aaand dave is gone. wellp

[wavemode]

I guess I won't heavily oppose a performer lynch today if people want that.

I still oppose it heavily for reasons already stated. Namely:

Spoiler:

Can we stop telling scum that if they want to win all they have to do is lurk?

Even though I agree with you in principle, it's not black and white because if you take any given game and just lynch the lowest-activity players, you will usually lose to the mafia. The fact that someone posts a lot shouldn't in and of itself make you heavily opposed to their lynch.

[wavemode]

scummy backtracks

yeah so i think scum wouldn't have posted the backtrack...?

i just didn't want my final statement on the topic to be something i was no longer sure of

[wavemode]

So umm wavemode's only motive to vote performer was to "form wagons"

[citation needed]

and that was direct counterwagoning to himself

well when you're the leading wagon every wagon formed thereafter is a counterwagon...

it's like when you're at the north pole

by definition, any direction you move in is south

[wavemode]

wave who was the main topic all day and disappeared now that it's decision time.

word of advice i think people who use activity levels as their argument probably should not be skimming the thread...

[wavemode]

2nd word of advice is i'm reading "i dont like how this wagon formed" on like every page of this game

YOU WILL NEVER LIKE HOW THE WAGON FORMED IN A 25P

"wow this wagon is scummy 10 people just voted out of nowhere"

THAT'S HOW LYNCHES HAPPEN

eveyone wants to eat the sausage but is queasy about how the sausage is made

if a wagon is so bad you can do VCA after the flip rather than making assumptions beforehand

anywho, i still prefer performer to android

[wavemode]

I'm not using activity level as my argument

saying you prefer to lynch someone because they disappeared sort of is doing that though? although it depends on how you look at it

whats your point?

my point was you made a comment that i had disappeared when i had just posted an hour or so beforehand

[wavemode]

My point about wave stands even with those posts.

Eh I think it only still stands not on merit but because you want it to still stand, so you moved the goalposts. But obviously we would agree to disagree on that point.

[wavemode]

Doubt there's any downside to saying who you want to vengekill.

You really can't think of any possible downside to this?

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WOO MURICA

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M

U

R

I

C

A

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VOTE: texcat

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on what basis is scion hard town

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VOTE: Android18

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i would color the game like

Performer

Almost50

Osuka

Wavemode

Gamma Emerald

Ausuka

Frozen Angel

Vaxkiller

Creature

PenguinPower

EspeciallyTheLies

Myloninja13

Flavor Leaf

Dunnstral

Kublai Khan

Hopkirk

JarJarDrinks
WhemeStar
Pine
Lalendra

Andriod18

Texcat

Golden Robster

ArcAngel9

Scioness Sajj

[wavemode]

I like how Wave has you as more town than the confirmed IC.

but they're not really ordered, just grouped

[wavemode]

Why are people scumreading KK? I think I missed what the reasoning for that was

[wavemode]

could go either way

wouldn't oppose his lynch

[wavemode]

bad case. most of it is oversimplification and ignoring nuance. I don't see anything there that's scum indicative, especially if you juxtapose kk's supposedly shallow engagement with that of a number of other players who are much worse. I still townread Kublai

[wavemode]

'Other people are engaging less' is pretty much textbook 'whataboutism' to detract from actually looking at an issue ('X is bad', 'Y is worse than X' doesn't mean X isn't concerning). Of course I'm also taking issue with how he's engaging/who he's engaging with- and maybe moreso, who he isn't engaging with. The critique isn't that he's not posting content, it's how he's posting and what he's not posting.

my point is that you can only play the game that's in front of you. if a player is generally low-activity, there's less to engage with. your case selectively glosses over the areas where KK does engage more deeply with players who are

actually present.

it's nonsense to say it's scum indicative because he "didn't mention" certain players, but then you gloss over the active people he does mention and engage with (presumably because you believe those people are town, so he's scum because his pushes are wrong. which is a fallacy in itself). either his play is shallow and he's trying to skate by without engaging people, or he's not. your case is clearly biased because you're trying to have it both ways

Do you feel like he was buddying you at all when he went hard against Ausuka/Performer while defending you when you were a leading dual wagon?

Even ignoring the fact that he later advocated for my lynch/vengekill (

after i became more PRESENT and had more CONTENT *hint* *hint* *wink* *wink*

), no I think his observation on the topic reflected basic common sense.

Do you think he's consistent in how he engages across the game?

No, because the players across the game are not consistent in their levels of content with which to engage.

[wavemode]

@Wave, considering 2502 that I posted above, why do you think KK pushed FL while not mentioning Android. Bearing in mind that Android was a leading wagon at the time and FL had no votes on him?

Your 2502 is conspicuously ignoring 2211. Do you disagree with his observation? Or do you just disagree with his conclusion that FL is scum (and why, I might ask)?

[wavemode]

@Wave, considering 2502 that I posted above, why do you think KK pushed FL while not mentioning Android. Bearing in mind that Android was a leading wagon at the time and FL had no votes on him?

Your 2502 is conspicuously ignoring 2211. Do you disagree with his observation? Or do you just disagree with his conclusion that FL is scum (and why, I might ask)?

and before you say he just came up with this reasoning today, he made the same observation in 1204

[wavemode]

I feel it's clear I ignored everything after they started interacting since at that point either one of them could retroactively apply justification- and basically everything is justifiable in retrospect. He doesn't say that when he's pushing for a Flavour wagon D1.

He mentioned it in 1204 but it went nowhere. Flavour replied on the same page and KK didn't respond to the reply. Isn't clear here he has a problem with it. He doesn't start treating Flavour differently to other lurkers at this point.

Yeah and this is the crux of why I think your "case" is ridiculous. You look at certain posts and perspectives and selectively decide they are scum indicative, but you look at posts like 1204 and decide they're irrelevant. He's making the same arguments as a previous game where he was town? Eh, it's because he's scum and it's "fresh in his mind" lmao. It all feels rather arbitrary.

In my mind I don't really see the difference between starting to push Flavor on that page or starting to do so 10 pages later. The fact of the matter is there was something he stated he disliked about Flavor's play, and as the day went on he decided to pursue it. So I'm not seeing the logical consistency of a case that says Kublai didn't have valid reasons to treat FL differently from other lurkers, or one that says he is only now justifying it in retrospect.

Are you saying KK thinks active lurking is fine, but calling attention to your own active lurking/not doing stuff D1 (he mentions this a couple of times, Flavour does it explicitly too) is scum indicative?

I don't know what KK thinks, you should ask him. Could you point me to where he said he thinks active lurking is fine?

On a similar note, do you have a problem with FL saying he didn't want to do stuff D1?

Not really, or I would have brought it up. Though at present I don't know what to think about FL. Unlike KK's "hard defense" of me as you call it, FL's 2378 felt really heavy-handed and unnecessary, and actually does feel like buddying. And this KK push stinks. I literally asked when the day started:

Why are people scumreading KK? I think I missed what the reasoning for that was

And nobody has yet given me an answer to that question that doesn't make me roll my eyes, hard.

Especially

not FL, from whom I would have expected one the most at this point.

[wavemode]

And here I thought this game would be boring

[wavemode]

except site meta isn't to kill all neighbours? and you guys just kind of decided to do that?

"you guys"

[wavemode]

p sure this is wheme's towngame actually

[wavemode]

Golden Robster, why did you post 2430 if you're masons with Flavor

[wavemode]

distancing

was telling FL to crumb in his posts so other mason can out without scum fakeclaiming

i don't actually understand what you're saying here at all

can you explain it

[wavemode]

distancing

was telling FL to crumb in his posts so other mason can out without scum fakeclaiming

i don't actually understand what you're saying here at all

can you explain it

what are you confused about?

why did you feel the need to distance

and what does that have to do with crumbing or fakeclaiming

and where are the crumbs anyway?

[wavemode]

why would one of us crumb our partner? we outed already?

...

[wavemode]

you were telling FL to crumb, meanwhile you yourself didn't do so...?

[wavemode]

had zero reason to believe we would be NK'd with ausuka outing as IC and players softing PR and a neighbourhood as well

only reason I told him to crumb is because he was being wagoned

so FL reaches

L-10

and of course the masonly thing is to start throwing fuel on his lynch with 2430 and 2511 ?!

...

I mean, I'm just looking for some sort of evidence from either of you that this wasn't just scum distancing. Then now Boon is gambiting and he's roped you into it like he always does to his scumpartners (trust me, I've been scum with Boon before...)

[wavemode]

okay I retract

oh okay good

[wavemode]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[wavemode]

i mean, he stopped posting 1 minute later when you claimed

safe to say it's active lurking

[wavemode]

flavor leaf is near the middle of your reads

do you believe it's good to have fluid reads

or to take hard stances

[wavemode]

well my townread of FL has deteriorated today, as i explained in 2524

[wavemode]

And wavemode scummed the past few pages up. Like holy fuck wave.

and just like that the wolf bares its teeth

[wavemode]

UNVOTE: i would be willing to lynch in Lalendra/Scion/Rob

[wavemode]

VOTE: WhemeStar

[wavemode]

UNVOTE: i would be willing to lynch in Lalendra/Scion/Rob

VOTE: WhemeStar

?

i don't think any of those lynches is happening today?

also i take back what i said previously about this being wheme's town game

[wavemode]

UNVOTE: i would be willing to lynch in Lalendra/Scion/Rob

VOTE: WhemeStar

?

i don't think any of those lynches is happening today?

also i take back what i said previously about this being wheme's town game

what makes it different from wheme's town game?

UNVOTE: i would be willing to lynch in Lalendra/Scion/Rob

VOTE: WhemeStar

?

i don't think any of those lynches is happening today?

also i take back what i said previously about this being wheme's town game

What’s my town game and what’s my scum game

to answer both of you, when i originally said "pretty sure thi sis wheme's towngame" i meant that as town he doesn't really post explanations for his votes or reads

but then it was brought to my attention that he does that as either alignment

and yeah, this is still a better person to wagon than PP I think

[wavemode]

I will offer myself up as a sacrifice cause I am only Vanilla Townie and it helps lower the pool of inactives; making it easier to find scum.

all of this feels super forced; what kind of town says this?

easy, bad town. what kind of scum says it?

[wavemode]

literally zero town motivation and ATE

side note i don't think i've ever seen the phrase "zero town motivation" used in concert with a sound and logical case on somebody

it's usually either made by town who doesn't understand that town do anything they want because most town don't give a shit about what you think looks like town motivation

or scum grasping for straws

[wavemode]

p sure lalendra is scum since she's making logical arguments this game. never seen town lalendra do that

[wavemode]

I am present and prodded.

Your last post that wasn't ("I'm behind", "I'll catch up", "I am present and prodded") was on July 4th. Congrats on successfully lurking through Day 2.

Can you please give a read? or a comment? or an observation?

If you're town, please stop this shitty playstyle.

pine prob also scum

[wavemode]

We could also lynch TBG.

[wavemode]

What does the neighbor meta thingy have to do with mylo?

Oh is wavemode the neighbor

Shows how uninvested I am In this game

this doesn't really sound genuine

we already knew you were uninvested, we didn't need an offering of evidence

[wavemode]

VOTE: whemestar

[wavemode]

nah fake hammer Gambit too WIFOMy. disregard

[wavemode]

nah fake hammer Gambit too WIFOMy. disregard

How was this a fake hammer? He was at L-1 before your vote I thought.

lalendra still managed to generate wifom from this lmao

i'm almost, impressed.

[wavemode]

Probably the most telling to me is that they're still going on with a relatively low posting chill style D2 after almost getting the lynch D1.

this logic is super questionable

[wavemode]

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

welcome, tyrion

[wavemode]

VOTE: Lalendra

[wavemode]

Scum usually bus at least one of their teammates in a game this large

you have statistics on this? there's almost certainly scum on his wagon, but to say he definitely bussed a teammate is a completely nonsensical assumption

[wavemode]

do we want lalendra anywhere near lylo

[wavemode]

so you townread lalendra?

[wavemode]

actually, i take that back. that's scummy approach.

why? there is a difference between i vote for you because i think you are scum and i vote you because i don't trust you to win the game in lylo.
do you play to lynch scum or do you play to policy people that may make the wrong decision in lylo? do you want a lynch that people have to take stances on or do you want to have no responsibility policy? are you certain that disengaged lurkers will stay disengaged? are you certain that engaged players won't flake out?

this is a rather strange tirade, considering

a. i never said i wanted to lynch lalendra because she's bad? not sure where you're getting that from

b. i've already made it clear that i do scumread lalendra

c. i made the exact same comment about uglyduck in open 729 a few weeks ago and you didn't take issue with it there?

[wavemode]

Yeah, so aside from the IC I townread approximately 0% of my wagon here lol.

what is scummy about them

[wavemode]

i see no rational reason not to lynch lalendra today, nor any counterwagon that looks remotely attractive. i wont be moving my vote

[wavemode]

what does that post even mean

?

[wavemode]

Yes it is. If he's posting content at this level he's town. Literally just look at his games.

Like if he was spamming the thread with the letter "a" yeah, that's NAI. What he's doing isn't.

So if Creature was posting something along the lines of "I'm scum and I'm trying to lynch town. Go Scum Go!", you're telling me that I should read that as town. Really?

I can't wrap my mind around the idea that someone is so terrible at mafia that the content of what they post is irrelevant, it's only the number of posts that I should pay attention to. Plus, HE'S COMPLETELY AWARE OF THIS META. Which means it's basically on the level of

red text

and he should be booted from the site if what you are saying is true.

this is absurdly naive. are you actually equating the idea that some players are bad at playing scum and tend to lurk a lot, to a trust tell? really?

[wavemode]

lost a mini (tragically) and won an open.

{REDACTED}

then i'll probably take another break from MS

Redacted part of this post for violating the rule against discussing ongoing games.
~Ircher

[wavemode]

I can't remember where lalendra was town and her prfessiona was super natural or she had super genuinely town post

this is exactly the point i made earlier. town!lalendra relies heavily on gut feel cases in my experience

[wavemode]

gamma emerald is town and that wagon is hilariously awful

[wavemode]

and it's reasonably possible there's a rob/lalendra team, all things considered? mm? bit o wine anyone?

i guess i'm looking for somewhere else in the game rob took the effort to case someone as town. to my memory he's been relatively aloof but i could be wrong

[wavemode]

TWILIGHT TWILIGHT TWILIGHT THINK FAST

[wavemode]

VOTE: ankamius

[wavemode]

dayvig: Ankamius

[wavemode]

VOTE: Scioness Sajj

[wavemode]

yawn VOTE: Dunnstral

[wavemode]

i am town aligned

[wavemode]

bleh

[wavemode]

now I would color the game like

Wavemode

Hopkirk

Tchill13

Gamma Emerald

Skygazer

Ankamius

JarJarDrinks

Vaxkiller

Creature

Kublai Khan

Texcat

TehBrawlGuy

Scioness Sajj

Golden Robster

Krazy

Myloninja13

[wavemode]

can the people saying that Gamma Emerald's vote on Wheme was a bus once he saw his partner going down, explain why he is defending Wheme in 3144 while Wheme was at L-2?

[wavemode]

can we actually talk about this PenguinPower kill

a CLAIMED VT ?

who has been wagoned on several different occasions this game?

[wavemode]

is it possible that the only reason Hopkirk is alive is his end-of-day case on mylo?

[wavemode]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This calls to me.

VOTE: Lalendra

Feeling better now.

why are there zero lalendra posts between these two decisions

[wavemode]

Is it possible scum are scared to death of the protective and figured that hop would be protected instead of PP.

so they just felt like rolling the dice with the ausuka and flavor leaf kills? i mean, the fact that those two died one night after another tells me they consider it a high priority for conftowns to be dead, and aren't all that scared of a protective, especially after wheme claimed doctor and nobody counterclaimed. (i recognize that, in a meta sense, it's a fine play for there to be a town doctor and for them not to counterclaim there. but the very fact that Wheme claimed doctor of all things at least tells us that they were TRYING to find out if there was a doctor. then that very night and the next night, two conftown players died who would be likely doctor targets. that sort of says to me that after that day, they became more or less comfortable with the idea that there probably is not a full doctor. there's also the fact that, shooting at someone who is protected at least gives you information that there is a protective, which is a plus in itself.)

i just found it odd to see PP dead, ostensibly out of fear of a protective, when the scumteam haven't shown much fear of a protective up to this point. makes me want to look for a more direct reason that scum would shy away from shooting Hop

and maybe the choice of PP, is that PP's reads were right?

[wavemode]

Why isn't TBG in your pink list?

idfk dude. are we too far along in the game for me to say "gut" or "too scummy to be scum"? cuz that's all i got at the moment

[wavemode]

Which of PP's reads align with yours at the moment?

saying he'd be willing to lynch mylo, for starters

[wavemode]

also, skygazer lol, you realize every single player in this game implicitly locktowned your slot mid-day 1

you should be wondering about these kill choices

[wavemode]

elaborate

[wavemode]

i said "for starters". PP fos'd plenty of other people who could be scum as well. I was just mentioning that because it's also one of my scumreads

[wavemode]

in fact VOTE: Krazy

[wavemode]

tex could certainly be scum

[wavemode]

That's some real selective quoting to throw shade. Why are you just pulling out of context stuff and inventing a narrative?

er, why this reaction? what narrative? why can't it just be a question about what your reasoning was?

[wavemode]

Why is this an important discussion for you to have?

?????

[wavemode]

4418 doesn't contain your reasoning though...

[wavemode]

was that so hard

[wavemode]

if that's what you think i was doing, you are free to have that opinion

i just saw it as generating discussion

[wavemode]

why is it not a likely scenario? (3060 and 3062 are not exactly what I'd call a "hard bus" btw)

you yourself said Gamma was bussing because he saw his partner was going down. why in your mind couldn't TBG have had that same reasoning

[wavemode]

that reasoning doesn't really track for me. TBG explicitly wanted to avoid the major wagons and only voted because deadline was looming

and even if i were to agree with you, i don't get why your big central reason for TBG being town is based entirely on WIFOM assumptions of what TBG's typical scum behavior is

[wavemode]

What is your sense of TBG's meta?

WHAT IS YOURS? you're the one making the case for him to be town here, i'm just trying to understand it

How does the way he voted fit scum behavior?

How does it fit town behavior? again,

you're

the one who said this THE PREMISE TO ACCEPT if TBG is scum. but from where i'm standing it's pretty easy to accept. he replaces in, he sees seven votes on his partner, he sees the deadline looming, he goes "welp" and busses. you haven't really explained why this is so unlikely. your only reasoning seems to be, scum don't like to bus...? in a large? with their entire team still alive?

[wavemode]

I suppose I'm being disingenuous. I don't actually care if you townread TBG. i care that you townread him and scumread Gamma for THE EXACT SAME THING. and your explanation of why they're different is pretty fkin weak

[wavemode]

Krazy you stated that Gamma bussed because he saw his partner going down

Can you respond to the question I asked earlier? That is, why was he defending Wheme while Wheme was at L-2?

[wavemode]

TBG has negative inclination because his slot was basically null and he gains little by a bus.

He also loses little. This argument still makes no sense to me. You say this is the premise we must accept for TBG to be scum. But Gamma also gains literally nothing from voting Wheme there, especially not with how late he did so, and after defending Wheme for so long

Gamma has

high inclination

because he plays up the bus and needs the bus to survive.

If your argument is that Gamma needed the bus in order to survive, why did he defend Wheme while Wheme was at L-2?

My argument is not that people who voted Wheme are bussing.

I never said it was. Your argument is that TBG is very likely town because he had an "out" so he gains nothing by voting Wheme. Meanwhile Gamma also gained nothing from voting Wheme, especially not in the manner that he did and after defending Wheme, but Gamma is scum. Is your argument that Gamma Emerald is just bad at playing scum?

[wavemode]

Apologies for shitty hammer. I will try not to vote when I'm not at home and actually double check the count 0.o

Hop, I meta'd Mylo, and I think this game fits his town meta more than his scum meta. Town meta is lots of lynchbaity short posts, scum meta is fewer longer posts.

Vote Gamma

i still hate this post

[wavemode]

Krazy plays off the hammer as accidental but I believe he knew full well what he was doing:

it's not hammer tchill unvoted

shhhh

Day 4 VC #13

Dunnstral (9) (L-1) - JarJarDrinks (4815), Creature (4817), PenguinPower (4819), Texcat (4829), Gamma Emerald (4847), Skygazer (4973), Golden Robster (5019), Myloninja13 (5059), Wavemode (5071)

Golden Robster (1) - Hopkirk (5062)
Krazy (1) - Ankamius (5049)
Gamma Emerald (1) - Krazy (4859)
Tchill13 (0) -
Texcat (2) - Dunnstral (4670), TehBrawlGuy (4710)
Vaxkiller (0) -
Scioness Sajj (1) - Vaxkiller (4721)
Not Voting (3) - Kublai Khan, Scioness Sajj (4895), Tchill13 (5064)

Lynch Threshold

During day 4, it takes 10 votes to lynch a player.

Deadline

Day 4 ends on August 2, 2018 5:30 PM EDT (GMT-4:00) or in (expired on 2018-08-02 17:30:00).

Moderator Notes

If you have consistent weekend V/LA, you must remind me every weekend, or I will prod you. Alternatively, you can set V/LA tags each weekend.
Golden Robster is V/LA until August 1.

You are expected to post at least once every 4 days.

If you notice any mistakes, please point them out. (That includes looking at the voting history.)

Spoiler: Current Voting History

Dunnstral: Texcat (4670)
Golden Robster: Scioness Sajj (4681) --> Dunnstral (5019)
Krazy: Texcat (4669) --> Gamma Emerald (4859)
Creature: Scioness Sajj (4665) --> Texcat (4745) --> Dunnstral (4817)
Hopkirk: Scioness Sajj (4672) --> (Null) (4848) --> Scioness Sajj (4857) --> Vaxkiller (4992) --> Golden Robster (5062)
Gamma Emerald: Dunnstral (4847)
Tchill13: Scioness Sajj (4707) --> Dunnstral (4822) --> Scioness Sajj (4863) --> Dunnstral (4988) --> (Null) (5064)
Skygazer: Scioness Sajj (4717) --> Texcat (4888) --> (Null) (4894) --> Dunnstral (4973)
JarJarDrinks: Scioness Sajj (4674) --> Dunnstral (4815)
Ankamius: Tchill13 (4756) --> Texcat (5002) --> Krazy (5049)
Texcat: Dunnstral (4829)
TehBrawlGuy: Texcat (4710)
Vaxkiller: Scioness Sajj (4721)
Wavemode: Scioness Sajj (4854) --> Dunnstral (5071)
PenguinPower: Scioness Sajj (4713) --> Dunnstral (4819)
Myloninja13: Dunnstral (4837) --> Gamma Emerald (4965) --> Dunnstral (5059)
Scioness Sajj: Texcat (4675) --> (Null) (4895)

Spoiler: Previous Voting History

Day 3

* - Hammer vote
^ - Vote occurred after hammer

Dunnstral (2): Myloninja13 (3463) --> Texcat (4162)
Golden Robster (3): Dunnstral (3559) --> TehBrawlGuy (4208) --> Creature (4255)
Pine (0):
Krazy (3): Dunnstral (3978) --> Texcat (4161) --> Gamma Emerald (4392)
Creature (8): Texcat (3472) -->

Lalendra

(3681) --> Texcat (3744) --> Myloninja13 (4013) --> Texcat (4165) -->

Lalendra

(4213) --> Kublai Khan (4260) -->

Lalendra

(4284)
Kublai Khan (7): Creature (3511) -->

Lalendra

(4033) --> TehBrawlGuy (4184) --> Creature (4240) -->

Lalendra

(4308) --> Gamma Emerald (4416) -->

Lalendra

(4557)
Hopkirk (3):

Lalendra

(3661) --> Myloninja13 (4082) -->

Lalendra

(4339)
Gamma Emerald (3):

Lalendra

(3913) --> (Null) (3954) --> Myloninja13 (4073)

Ausuka

(4): Myloninja13 (3640) -->

Lalendra

(3677) --> Myloninja13 (4010) -->

Lalendra

(4286)

Lalendra

(3): TehBrawlGuy (3719) --> Myloninja13 (4130) --> Creature (4384)
Tchill13 (3):

Lalendra

(3690) --> Myloninja13 (4082) -->

Lalendra

(4215)
Frozen Angel (0):
Skygazer (1):

Lalendra

(4564)
JarJarDrinks (5): Creature (3616) --> (Null) (3694) -->

Lalendra

(3695) --> Dunnstral (3704) -->

Lalendra

(3721)
Ankamius (3):

Lalendra

(3801) --> (Null) (4044) --> Creature (4239)
Texcat (1): Myloninja13 (3637)
TehBrawlGuy (4): JarJarDrinks (3466) --> Texcat (3790) --> Creature (4245) --> Gamma Emerald (4421)
Vaxkiller (3): Kublai Khan (4004) --> Myloninja13 (4214) -->

Lalendra

(4220)
Wavemode (2): TehBrawlGuy (3468) -->

Lalendra

(3716) --> _{Ankamius (4600^)}
PenguinPower (3): Texcat (3473) --> Myloninja13 (3643) -->

Lalendra

(3678)
Myloninja13 (2): Dunnstral (3765) --> Creature (4252)
Scioness Sajj (3): Texcat (3756) --> Creature (4338) -->

Lalendra

(4577*)

Day 2

Note: * - Hammer Vote

Dunnstral (4): Myloninja13 (1942) --> JarJarDrinks (2206) --> PenguinPower (3242) --> TehBrawlGuy (3248)
Golden Robster (17): Hopkirk (2078) --> (Null) (2096) --> PenguinPower (2112) --> Scioness Sajj (2152) --> Vaxkiller (2171) --> (Null) (2288) --> Creature (2299) -->

WhemeStar

(2304) --> Wavemode (2367) --> Scioness Sajj (2432) --> TehBrawlGuy (2526) -->

Flavor Leaf

(2642) --> (Null) (2783) --> PenguinPower (2979) -->

WhemeStar

(3099) --> (Null) (3284) -->

WhemeStar

(3286)
Pine (1): Andriod18 (1936)
Creature (3): Myloninja13 (1941) --> PenguinPower (2835) -->

WhemeStar

(3453*)
Kublai Khan (5):

Flavor Leaf

(1944) --> (Null) (2366) --> Vaxkiller (2423) --> PenguinPower (2899) -->

WhemeStar

(3027)

WhemeStar

(4): Vaxkiller (2245) --> JarJarDrinks (2301) -->

Flavor Leaf

(2542) --> PenguinPower (2930)
Hopkirk (5): Andriod18 (2197) --> Kublai Khan (2346) --> (Null) (2781) ==> (Null) (2782) -->

WhemeStar

(3008)
Gamma Emerald (5): Kublai Khan (2488) --> Golden Robster (2839) --> (Null) (2867) --> PenguinPower (2990) -->

WhemeStar

(3318)

Ausuka

(7): PenguinPower (1960) --> Myloninja13 (2434) -->

Flavor Leaf

(2504) --> (Null) (2573) --> Myloninja13 (2574) --> TehBrawlGuy (3023) -->

WhemeStar

(3293)

Lalendra

(7): Vaxkiller (2184) --> JarJarDrinks (2334) --> Andriod18 (2503) -->

Flavor Leaf

(2657) --> (Null) (2705) --> PenguinPower (2809) -->

WhemeStar

(3097)
EspeciallyTheLies (1): PenguinPower (1996)
JarJarDrinks (10): Andriod18 (1945) --> EspeciallyTheLies (2041) --> (Null) (2066) --> Andriod18 (2192) -->

Flavor Leaf

(2327) --> (Null) (2612) -->

Flavor Leaf

(2640) --> (Null) (2755) --> Andriod18 (2943) -->

WhemeStar

(3030)
Andriod18 (2): JarJarDrinks (2116) --> Kublai Khan (2533)
Texcat (2): ArcAngel9 (1987) --> Myloninja13 (2552)
ArcAngel9 (1): Texcat (2072)
TehBrawlGuy (7): (Null) (2535) --> Wavemode (2690) -->

WhemeStar

(3062) --> (Null) (3118) -->

WhemeStar

(3165) --> (Null) (3196) -->

WhemeStar

(3233)
Vaxkiller (5):

WhemeStar

(2343) --> Myloninja13 (2472) --> PenguinPower (3012) -->

WhemeStar

(3112) --> PenguinPower (3290)
Wavemode (6): Texcat (2044) --> Andriod18 (2331) -->

Flavor Leaf

(2635) --> (Null) (2800) -->

WhemeStar

(2966) ==>

WhemeStar

(3115)
PenguinPower (7): Myloninja13 (1947) --> Kublai Khan (2572) -->

Flavor Leaf

(2709) --> Myloninja13 (2759) --> Golden Robster (2775) --> (Null) (2894) -->

WhemeStar

(2962)
Myloninja13 (1): PenguinPower (2437)
Scioness Sajj (3): Andriod18 (2904) -->

WhemeStar

(3034) --> PenguinPower (3255)

Flavor Leaf

(5): JarJarDrinks (2205) --> Kublai Khan (2499) --> PenguinPower (2715) --> Golden Robster (2774) -->

WhemeStar

(2958)

Day 1

Note: * = Hammer Vote

Note: ^ = Vote after hammer vote.

Dunnstral (5):

Osuka

(77) --> Texcat (1388) -->

Lalendra

(1623) -->

Osuka

(1758) -->

Performer

(1782)

Srceenplay

(0): (Null)

Performer

(5):

Osuka

(623) --> TheRampage (909) --> Wavemode (1051) --> Andriod18 (1765) -->

Performer

(1849)*

Joral

(0): (Null)

Almost50

(8): Hopkirk (97) --> Edosurist (226) -->

Osuka

(390) -->

Ausuka

(1205) --> (Null) (1304) --> Vaxkiller (1352) --> (Null) (1380) --> Andriod18 (1460)
Fumuki (0): (Null)
Golden Robster (13):

Almost50

(177) --> Wavemode (183) -->

Osuka

(236) -->

Ausuka (317)

--> JarJarDrinks (319) --> (Null) (546) --> Vaxkiller (602) --> (Null) (1504) --> Wavemode (1588) --> (Null) (1589) --> ArcAngel9 (1770) --> Andriod18 (1784) --> (Null) (1798)
Pine (2):

Osuka

(176) --> Andriod18 (1835)
Creature (6):

Performer

(385) --> Myloninja13 (720) --> TheRampage (813) -->

Performer

(898) --> Andriod18 (1449) -->

Performer

(1846)
Kublai Khan (6):

Osuka

(76) -->

Almost50

(122) --> Scioness Sajj (388) --> JarJarDrinks (536) -->

Osuka

(725) -->

Performer

(957)

WhemeStar

(3):

Lalendra

(234) --> JarJarDrinks (797) -->

Flavor Leaf

(955)
Hopkirk (9):

Osuka

(90) -->

Lalendra

(279) -->

Osuka

(696) --> (Null) (993) --> Wavemode (999) -->

Performer

(1273) --> (Null) (1315) -->

Performer

(1458) --> Andriod18 (1679)
Edosurist (2): Texcat (84) -->

Almost50

(222)
Gamma Emerald (3): Vaxkiller (710) --> Wavemode (1107) --> Andriod18 (1711) --> _{(Null) (1889)^}

Ausuka

(9): JarJarDrinks (89) --> Creature (104) --> Myloninja13 (429) --> (Null) (742) --> TheRampage (743) --> Wavemode (998) -->

Performer

(1604) -->

Lalendra

(1624) --> Andriod18 (1680)

Lalendra

(3):

Almost50

(209) --> (Null) (559) -->

Performer

(1229)
EspeciallyTheLies (2):

Almost50

(83) -->

Performer

(515)
Lovebird (1): Edosurist (259)
Davesaz (1): Wavemode (1014)
Frozen Angel (3):

Performer

(1579) --> (Null) (1606) -->

Performer

(1814)
JarJarDrinks (8):

Osuka

(85) -->

Almost50

(114) --> Charles510 (186) --> Edosurist (231) -->

Osuka

(535) -->

Ausuka

(842) --> Wavemode (1112) --> Andriod18 (1410)

Osuka

(10): Wavemode (80) --> JarJarDrinks (124) --> ArcAngel9 (229) --> Pine (332) --> JarJarDrinks (353) -->

Performer

(769) --> TheRampage (771) -->

Performer

(1047) --> Vaxkiller (1359) -->

Performer

(1384)
Texcat (4):

Osuka

(79) --> Wavemode (1080) -->

Osuka

(1703) --> Andriod18 (1777)
Andriod18 (4): Kublai Khan (190) --> Lovebird (290) --> JarJarDrinks (855) -->

Performer

(1796)
ArcAngel9 (4): Texcat (81) --> TheRampage (223) --> Texcat (604) -->

Performer

(1397)
Charles510 (2): JarJarDrinks (87) --> (Null) (310)
Vaxkiller (8): JarJarDrinks (363) --> Scioness Sajj (389) --> Andriod18 (437) --> JarJarDrinks (532) --> Golden Robster (678) --> Wavemode (1078) --> TheRampage (1085) -->

Performer

(1116)
Wavemode (5): Texcat (82) --> Charles510 (131) --> (Null) (838) -->

Osuka

(867) -->

Performer

(1108)
TheRampage (3): Creature (100) --> (Null) (509) -->

Osuka

(681)
PenguinPower (1):

Performer

(1774)
Myloninja13 (4): Edosurist (233) --> JarJarDrinks (326) -->

Performer

(1554) --> Andriod18 (1787)
Scioness Sajj (4):

Ausuka

(406) --> (Null) (1325) -->

Performer

(1552) --> Andriod18 (1760)

Flavor Leaf

(1): Andriod18 (1772)

Pre-Game

Dunnstral (2): Texcat (9) --> Pine (43)

Srceenplay

(1): Andriod18 (62)
Pine (1):

Osuka

(16)
Kublai Khan (1): Pine (34)
Hopkirk (1):

Osuka

(66)
Edosurist (1): Pine (42)

Osuka

(2): Pine (28) --> Wavemode (33)
Texcat (1): Pine (44)
Wavemode (1):

Osuka

(31)

Oh hey tchill abandoned wagon.

Ok ALL ABOARD

vote dunn

[wavemode]

Can you be specific on which posts from Gamma make you think Gamma is town

read my 1512

or that you characterize as defending?

are you actually going to claim that 3144 is not a defense of wheme?

[wavemode]

It seems like a lot of your defense of Gamma hinges on a game you played where they were not like they are in this game.

false

Have you looked at more games beyond that one?

yes, obviously I have

It also seems like you think Gamma is town because he is "indecisive"

the rest of your post is meaningless because you don't know what incisive means. I didn't say indecisive

I'm not the biggest fan of meta, but yolo.

then you shouldn't have. the bulk of your metavomit was pointless and ignores context

[wavemode]

So if your argument is that I am scummy because I think Gamma is scummy because of your meta read that Gamma is town

you're scummy entirely independent of Gamma fam. the Pine slot was bad and you've done nothing to alleviate my concerns. i think your posts have an extremely low signal-to-noise ratio, and i think you do it intentionally to look active and obscure the fact that you're really just parroting the same arguments over and over. regarding the various people you've shaded since you replaced in, you tend to spend a lot of time talking about why certain things don't make sense to you or look weird but fail to evaluate whether they actually come from scum motivation. so you just write things off rather than asking people to explain their reasoning. i think that's generally a scummy game mindset.

Gamma is just one singular example where you make the argument that he bussed because he saw his partner going down but ignore that his actions don't even make sense from that perspective. but he is not at all the entirety of why i scumread you.

[wavemode]

I think it's interesting that wave put in all of this effort saying hopkirk was probably left alive due to bad reads

when did I say that? i think the only suggestion i made regarding hopkirk is that scum!mylo might not have wanted to kill someone who made a long case against him right at the end of the day because it might point to him. but that was just one theory. I was more focused on them choosing PenguinPower of all people

[wavemode]

no...? He called it shitty, not accidental

he specifically said that he did not check the count. as in, he didn't knwo it was hammer. is there another way to interpret that?

[wavemode]

JarJar/Wavemode/Tchill/Vax

this is hilarious because I would townblock with this group of people

[wavemode]

Hopkirk's reads seem to be mostly consensus, Sky. That probably isn't too relevant.

You don't find it odd that wave lightly discredits Hopkirk's reads and now they're voting together? I mean, I see your point though.

did you even read the post i just made

[wavemode]

Why would Hop be left alive for his case on Mylo and PP potentially killed for having a read that included Mylo?

i only mentioned it because it was a big case and it came right as the day was ending so it was fresh in everyone's mind

and as for PP he had a number of scumreads, not just Mylo. my point was never just about mylo (and, in fact, I'm not pushing to lynch mylo even now. he was just the first to come to mind for me)

Wave, why are you having a surge of activity all of a sudden after catching some votes?

this is neither true, nor meaningful if it were true

[wavemode]

JarJar/Wavemode/Tchill/Vax

this is hilarious because I would townblock with this group of people

Why would you townblock with Tchill?

i rather comfortably townread the play of both Tchill and his predecessor EspeciallyTheLies

[wavemode]

Wheme was NOT a sunk ship when TBG joined the wagon. There were three hundred posts, a vote from the IC and a vote indicated as available between when TBG joined the wagon and when Gamma joined the wagon. TBG helped sink the ship. Gamma joined after it was sunk.

The cases are not the same, and Gamma is way more likely to have bussed a sunk ship than TBG is to have come in and torpedoed his ally before the IC joined the wagon (IC vote was important, since it indicated the trifecta of conf-town of FL/Hop/Au, which if on scum is when scum are likely to decide the slot is lost).

Your question of why Gamma didn't immediately bussed but made a few quick questions first is worth thinking about as well. WHEN was Gamma interrogating the Wheme wagon? Most of his skepticism of it comes *before* Ausuka's vote. Ausuka's vote was the sign to bus on day 2.

take me through your logic here?

cuz first of all, anyone with common sense could look at the votes and momentum and see that wheme was likely going to be going down. sure, maybe some players might use that opportunity to try to make it not happen by pushing elsewhere or going afk. but i wouldn't consider that the *default* decision, and i certainly wouldn't be calling someone town or even likely town just because they didn't do that. it's just as likely that scum in TBG's position would just bus for cred and move on. it's one teammate, he loses nothing by putting his vote there.

in addition, gamma was still defending wheme AFTER the IC vote, so what even is your point. that it wasn't as intense? okay, let's walk with that. you're actually going to argue with a straight face that Ausuka's vote made it a sunk ship? on page 125, wheme was taken to L-1 and asked to claim, and that's not a sunk ship so Gamma defends Wheme, but 7 pages later after someone unvotes and then Dunnstral tries to build other wagons and then the IC very reluctantly brings Wheme to L-2, NOW it's a sunk ship and Gamma feels the need to bus??

[wavemode]

Why the hell hasn't anyone looked at who hopped off the wheme wagon to start momentum, or recreate momentum on the PP wagon???

look at robster. at 3081 the Wheme and PP wagons are even

Lalendra joins the Wheme wagon at the bottom of that page and Rob follows her. then most of Rob's posts after that are still arguing for scum!PP

i also didn't really like his arguments for scum!PP (and i argued with him about it at the time) but that's subjective

[wavemode]

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

[wavemode]

That Gamma wagon is awful. Krazy,Vax,Mylo,Scion.

Whatever happened to that Texcat push yesterday from (Krazy, Scion, TBG, Creature) that was the Scion counterwagon.

this may sound krazy but scion is in both those pushes... with krazy.

This gave me the insight.

There's something else too:

When I was on my way to go lunch at some meh restaurant I was playing CodyCross and there was some question about a group (it turned out to be yardbirds the answer), then I thought about democrats vs republicans). I asked myself "what's the difference between democracy and republic?". I thought about Roman Republic while asking "could it be a democracy?".

I then started to have insights about how the Roman Republic went down to become Roman Imperium and it made me think about Augustus Caesar. Though, there was an alt named Augustus Caesar on that horrible Civilization game. Augustus Caesar was like one of the most obvious scum I have ever saw, and yet he still survived to endgame just lurking.

Who was behind that alt? Pine. What did Pine do? Lurk until he was inevitably replaced here. Who replaced Pine? Krazy. Now seeing Krazy, his name feels pretty self-explanatory. Though, I kinda wonder: would town!Krazy act like this or would he just be Kublai Khan 2.0? Somehow I started having insight about powerscum deciding to play semi-enthusiastic like Krazy here.

idk how much should I take this seriously though. Is this too Krazy?

so why did these lead you to vote scion and not join on krazy

[wavemode]

u might have already mentioned it hopkirk but do you townread TBG? and why

[wavemode]

D3 Mislynch

Lalendra (11) (HAMMER @ 4577) - PenguinPower (3678), Wavemode (3716), JarJarDrinks (3721), Tchill13 (4215), Vaxkiller (4220), Creature (4284), Ausuka (4286), Hopkirk (4339), Kublai Khan (4557), Skygazer (4564), Scioness Sajj (4577*)

D4 Mislynch

Dunnstral (10) (HAMMER @ 5104) - JarJarDrinks (4815), Creature (4817), PenguinPower (4819), Texcat (4829), Gamma Emerald (4847), Skygazer (4973), Golden Robster (5019), Myloninja13 (5059), Wavemode (5071), Krazy (5104)


The subset of players on both mislynches is {Wavemode, JarJarDrinks,

PenguinPower

, Creature}. I think this is a pretty good place to start, and I'd prefer JJD or Wave. VOTE: JJD in particular has been pretty instrumental in our failed lynches. He even set up the awful Dunn lynch before Lala died.

Dunn is obviously next lynch after lala.

soo this is actually the worst post i've ever seen

[wavemode]

VOTE: sajj

is this forced? or can you expand on why SS is scum?

is THIS forced? you didn't take issue with any previous vote on scioness

[wavemode]

village is actively trying to lose, what else is new

[wavemode]

explain to me why the entire gamma emerald wagon is now HARD sheeping gamma emerald

[wavemode]

explain to me why the entire gamma emerald wagon is now HARD sheeping gamma emerald

This aint true is it? I think SS is the only one. Which makes sense cuz he's scum.

right, for some reason i thought ank had been on gem

[wavemode]

so TBG do you have any points on JJD relating to his actual play, rather than the supposition that wheme bussed?

all you said in 3466 was that you "had your suspicions"

like what?

[wavemode]

did you skim my last post or something? 3 of the 4 posts I quoted in it were about JJD's play specifically.

otoh I don't remember why I was scumreading him like, 3 weeks ago - I remember being told to read his ISO and not liking it.

been scumreading JJD since the early game, doesn't even know why

after-the-fact justifies it with logic that wheme

must have

bussed and that it

must have

been on JJD

continues the vendetta today by presenting a list of 4 players who were on two mislynches (as though that is evidence of something) - ignores the ones who were on 3 mislynches and votes the one who was on 2, who just happens to be JJD (which is why i said earlier that it was the worst post i'd ever seen)

[wavemode]

Beyond even that, he's attempted to milk the Wheme lynch for towncred really hard, which does ping me, but not that much because JJD's got an ego.

K PLEASE just be scum in this game and not genuinely this dense

u dont get to attack someone ON THE BASIS OF THE WHEME LYNCH and then when he defends himself go "look hes trying to milk towncred from the wheme lynch"

[wavemode]

VOTE: JarjarDrinks
Yeah I think this is shady enough
I was asking you about your reasons TBG to see if you had anything about his voting patterns, and while it wasn't as much of a smoking gun as I hoped I did see some stuff about it that made me feel like it was a good vote

I'm just going to say this JJD wagon might be the worst wagon in the game to date, and Gamma tried to lead it.

The three leading wagons are all probably town. Scion is the only one I might be wrong on, but I don't think I am.

CFD onto Gamma would be a good CFD.

Vote Gamma

probably our best CFD would be you

[wavemode]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[wavemode]

VOTE: Golden Robster

[wavemode]

VOTE: Wavemode

[wavemode]

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy
VOTE: TehBrawlGuy
VOTE: TehBrawlGuy
VOTE: TehBrawlGuy
VOTE: TehBrawlGuy
VOTE: TehBrawlGuy
VOTE: TehBrawlGuy
VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

[wavemode]

might i interest you all in a TBG wagon, for the low low price of FREE

advantages over our competitors include: actually has the remotest chance of resulting in a lynch at this stage

[wavemode]

VOTE: Krazy

[wavemode]

Wavemode: you are a vanilla neighbor, correct?

yes why

[wavemode]

oh yeah Kublai Khan i wanted to ask

Excited to see texcat as a last minute change.

why were you excited to see this change?

[wavemode]

i know personally i was dreading reading through this sudden CFD that popped up while I was away and dissolved every other wagon. at the time given its speed I was expecting it to flip town

[wavemode]

you were townreading tex for most of the game as far as I can see

when did you decide that tex was scum and what was the reason

[wavemode]

Wavemode: you are a vanilla neighbor, correct?

yes why

This is strange

why is it strange

[wavemode]

alright VOTE: Golden Robster

[wavemode]

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy

[wavemode]

??

Okay, so the wavemode/Tchill13 story is all BS and they are panicking?

what gives you that impression

[wavemode]

I've read them. You've read them. What is it you want to know?

[wavemode]

Yes EspeciallyTheLies joined my neighborhood as a universal backup to Srceenplay

I'm conftown because I'm a 2-shot Friendly Neighbor and i targeted especiallythelies (now Tchill) and Gamma Emerald

[wavemode]

*sigh* this is why i never claim

[wavemode]

also, gamma could mechanically be any alignment. but either way, he did receive my PM that I'm confirmed town

[wavemode]

Gamma Emerald is not a neighbor. where are you getting that

[wavemode]

nobody. Krazy is crazy

[wavemode]

the only reason i targeted ETL is that in the private thread ausuka and ETL did not believe i was town

as for GE, you're mistaken. I've stated he's very town since day 1

[wavemode]

Did Ausuka crumb anything that indicates ETL joined?

no

[wavemode]

wavemode, you friendly neighbored Gamma N2 right?

yes

[wavemode]

i didnt send the PM's nor do i know their contents. the mod does that

[wavemode]

@wavemode - Right, yeah. But they should be identical.

Why did you vote Gamma Emerald yesterday in your weird multi-post/multi-vote thing?

lol they were random and out of frustration and boredom

i mean, I also voted myself there

[wavemode]

no, a normal-legal Universal Backup can only take over a role from their own alignment. Srceenplay was town so the fact that Tchill is currently a neighbor means he is town too

[wavemode]

the only reason i targeted ETL is that in the private thread ausuka and ETL did not believe i was town

as for GE... I've stated he's very town since day 1

and it was nights 1 and 2

[wavemode]

Right, how does Wheme flip universal backup when Performer had died?

Wait... uhhh.... does that... confirm... Tchill... as scum.......?

Uhghghufghghga

Is Universal Backup confirmed to only backup roles on YOUR SIDE or does it go for either side? If it's either side, then what happens if a scum team has two universal backs?

If Tchill got Performer's role, then that would mechanically explain why Wheme flipped Universal Backup when a power role had already died. If Universal Backups go to the first PR that dies on either side. I guess?

I might just really be not used to these mechanics tho.

you could literally read the wiki page and see that it only takes over from your own alignment

[wavemode]

VOTE: Golden Robster seems fine

[wavemode]

i love how she still put creature above me though

[wavemode]

i understand it it's just funny

[wavemode]

especially in the context of the discussion that was had at the time, about whether Creature's meta was really so reliable

[wavemode]

idk, his selfvote?

so the AtE worked...

[wavemode]

i said in the neighbor PT that i was skeptical of the mason claim for that very reason

but, here we are.

[wavemode]

this game

[wavemode]

well gem is town

and davesaz was town so sky is town

soooo

[wavemode]

i probably won't

but either way, my reasons from 1512 haven't changed

in GE's case they've just been further strengthened by his continued play. and my point about aggression ties in with how i don't think scum!gamma is much of a "theorist" as it were. like when he pushed me based on his idea that scum!me forgot to use the neighborhood private thread and was trying to cover it up by saying i was intentionally not using it. or like his day 5 push of JJD. things like that

for davesaz, my reasons were further strengthened when he replaced out and his signature said something like "done with mafiascum, tired of people not listening to me" or such